Transcript

Murder suspect asked online psychic: "Will I get caught for what I did?" | "48 Hours" Full Episode

From 48 Hours · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 4 min · 9,577 words · 194 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Murder suspect asked online psychic: "Will I get caught for what I did?" | "48 Hours" Full Episode", an episode of 48 Hours published December 28, 2025 (1 h 4 min, about 9,577 words). It mentions 41 people, works and ideas, including Emily Han, Jenny Han, Mark Palumbo, Pierre Hopp, Henry Han.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Don Goldberg, Alternative medicine, Ben Leaden, Glenn Miller
  2. – 20:00: Oceanside, Pierre Hopp, Home Depot, Oceanside, California
  3. – 30:00: Pierre Hopp, Anthony Flores, Bench trial, Christine Voss
  4. – 40:00: Pierre Hopp, Oceanside, Samantha Spyell, Christine Voss
  5. – 50:00: Henry Han, Perpetual energy machine, Don Goldberg, Key logger
  6. – 1:00:00: Home Depot, TJ Darita, Oceanside, Bench trial
  7. – 1:03:41: Apple Podcast, Ben Leidden, Department of Energy, Don Goldberg

Notable quotes from "Murder suspect asked online psychic: "Will I get caught for what I did?" | "48 Hours" Full Episode"

  • Disneyland. Somebody's got to go over to their house and check on them. Mark finally gets in touch with Don Goldberg.
    about Don Goldberg · at
  • Mark and Mara Palumbo were concerned when their friend and business partner, Dr. Henry Han, failed to show up for a meeting. On March 23rd, 2016, they would learn the horrific reason why the following day from a news report.
    about Henry Han · at
  • It's basically a four-page business contract between two partners. Partner one, Pierre Hopp, and partner two, Dr.
    about Pierre Hopp · at
  • California region within the last several days or weeks. A Home Depot in Oceanside, California, had security footage of a man who matched the DMV photo of Pierre Hopp, who also happened to have an Oceanside address.
    about Oceanside · at
  • Sergeant Anthony Flores and his partner were part of the local Oceanside police team, assisting the Santa Barbara investigation.
    about Anthony Flores · at
  • Defense attorney Christine Voss, who was with the public defender's office at the time, represented Hops.
    about Christine Voss · at
  • I am not a scientist, but I don't know that there's a such thing as a perpetual energy machine.
    about Perpetual energy machine · at
  • And she attacked the credibility of the prosecution's star witness, TJ Darita.
    about TJ Darita · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Emily Han — Person · 26 mentions
  • Jenny Han — Person · 24 mentions
  • Mark Palumbo — Person · 20 mentions
  • Pierre Hopp — Person · 10 mentions · first at
  • Henry Han — Person · 9 mentions · first at
  • Don Goldberg — Person · 5 mentions · first at
  • TJ Darita — Person · 5 mentions · first at
  • Anthony Flores — Person · 2 mentions · first at
  • Ben Leidden — Person · 2 mentions · first at
    Updating all units, including the homicide team that had driven down from Santa Barbara with prosecutor Ben Leidden.
  • Christine Voss — Person · 2 mentions · first at
  • Samantha Spyell — Person · 2 mentions · first at
    Samantha Spyell met Pierre Hopped circa 2012 when he moved into a penthouse apartment in a luxury high-rise she managed in Tempe, Arizona. He pulled up and had this bright red Ferrari. It was.
  • Gwen De Marco — Person · 2 mentions · first at
    Incredibly, he even consulted an online psychic named Count Marco and asked him, Will I get caught for what I did?
  • Amory — Person · 2 mentions
  • Sheri Buron — Person · 2 mentions
  • Glenn Miller — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Dr. Glenn Miller, a psychiatrist, says he and Henry developed a mutual respect and even partnered on a book about how Eastern and Western medicine could work together to improve patients quality of.
  • Isaiah Oregon — Person · 1 mention · first at
    They were often together at the clinic where Jenny had quickly become Henry's right hand, says her friend Isaiah Oregon.
  • Ben Leaden — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Prosecutor Ben Leaden says it was shortly before midnight when Santa Barbara Sheriff's investigators obtained a search warrant and began to piece together what had happened inside the.
  • Kimberly Ruff — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Nobody could move for weeks. There was something very, very, very dark going on. Kimberly Ruff says Dr. Han treated her family for two decades. He could do anything.
  • TJ Dorito — Person · 1 mention · first at
    TJ Dorito was a marijuana grower who said Dr. Han had approached him about supplying CBDrich strains. TJ had also met Pierre.
  • Judge Brian Hill — Person · 1 mention · first at
    On November 24th, 2021, Judge Brian Hill would get the case. None of Pierre Hopscha's family members attended his trial. The judge made his ruling guilty on all counts. The judge when he issued.
  • Abby — Person · 1 mention

Companies & orgs

  • Home Depot — Company · 5 mentions · first at
    He recognized the plastic wrap was a Home Depot brand and reached out to the company's security department. And Home Depot was within hours of us getting entry into the house able to run those two items together to see if they had.
  • Department of Energy — Company · 2 mentions · first at
    Shootouts with shadowy figures. Now, he said he was sure they were sent by the Department of Energy.
  • Arco — Company · 2 mentions
  • Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) — Company · 2 mentions
  • Chase — Company · 2 mentions
  • Santa Barbara Herb Clinic — Company · 1 mention · first at
    China, where he came from a family of physicians. He would soon take over the Santa Barbara Herb Clinic.
  • Apple Podcast — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Natalie. Thank you, Amory. And to our listeners, if you like this podcast, please rate and review on Apple Podcast or on Spotify.
  • 3M — Company · 1 mention
  • Bravo — Company · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

  • Perpetual energy machine — Concept · 5 mentions · first at
  • CBD — Concept · 5 mentions
  • Bench trial — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
    Death. At the 11th hour, the DA's office agreed to wave the death penalty in exchange for a more expedient bench trial, which meant a judge, not jury, would render a verdict.…
  • Key logger — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
    Instead, Leine says Hopsch bugged Henry's computer with a spyware app called a key logger.
  • Alternative medicine — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Henry was the guy in the alternative medicine world. Patients would come in from all different parts of the country to see him. When you go to the clinic, it just kind of oozed of peacefulness.
  • Holistic approach — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Hans's holistic approach allowed her to nurse her newborn while still treating her tumors.
  • Quantum energy source — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

  • Oceanside — Place · 8 mentions · first at
  • Oceanside, California — Place · 5 mentions · first at
    California region within the last several days or weeks. A Home Depot in Oceanside, California, had security footage of a man who matched the DMV photo of Pierre Hopp, who also happened to have an Oceanside address.
  • Thousand Oaks, California — Place · 2 mentions
  • Tempe, Arizona — Place · 1 mention · first at
    2012 when he moved into a penthouse apartment in a luxury high-rise she managed in Tempe, Arizona. He pulled up and had this bright red Ferrari. It was very flashy.

Full transcript with timestamps

We don't want to accept that there is actually evil that walks amongst us, but it does. And this was pure evil. The Han family, I felt better whenever I spent time with Henry, Jenny, and Emily. Henry was born to be a healer.

Henry was the guy in the alternative medicine world. Patients would come in from all different parts of the country to see him. When you go to the clinic, it just kind of oozed of peacefulness. He had the magic. Emily had her own little table and her crayons. Her mom Jenny was there working in the clinic. It's kind of good therapy to be with the three of them.

They did make a good team. We were business partners with Henry and we were becoming friends.

We really had a beautiful road ahead of us. He had a 10:00 a.m. meeting with his normal investment group.

It was probably, you know, a good 45 minutes um after the meeting was supposed to start that we all kind of went, "Where is Henry?"

If he was going to be 2 minutes late, he called. We're trying to call Henry and was going straight to voicemail.

So, for him to miss this meeting would be a big deal. We just wouldn't. Something was not right.

We all had a pit in our stomach and we were trying to find a reason why that pit shouldn't be there. Emily's birthday is coming up. Maybe they took her to Disneyland. Somebody's got to go over to their house and check on them. Mark finally gets in touch with Don Goldberg. very unusual not to get any communication from either Jenny or Henry. By midday, I decided to go to the home. From the outside, it looked normal. Went to the front door. Door was closed, but it was not locked. The two vehicles were in the garage, which you could see through the windows at the top of the garage door. Then I called uh 911. They came over and did a welfare check. Around 5:30 that evening, two deputies arrived, made entry, called out, no response, and then started to look to see if there was any sign of foul play. And that's what led them to open the garage door. And then if you walk around the first car, they can see

what appears to be three bodies wrapped in plastic and duct tape. Within a minute or two, it sunk in that the the three bodies were Henry, Jenny, and Emily. My friends were gone. There's a certain amount of shock that that sets in.

We didn't hear back from Dawn. We didn't eat that night. We didn't sleep that night.

A 5-year-old, 3 days short of her birthday. It shook us all to our core. It was rough. things started rapidly going into the next phase. Who, how, and why. It's a huge home. There was biological evidence throughout, primarily in the upstairs and the bedrooms where the murders took place. The smell of bleach was there indicating a cleanup attempt. The entire family killed presumably while they slept. We knew there was a monster out there and we were going to find him and get him. Heat.

Hey. Hey. Hey. Mark and Mara Palumbo were concerned when their friend and business partner, Dr. Henry Han, failed to show up for a meeting. On March 23rd, 2016, they would learn the horrific reason why the following day from a news report.

I was in the kitchen on my computer and I kept checking and I just remember screaming, "They're all dead."

Dr. Han, his wife Jenny, and their 5-year-old daughter Emily were found dead in the garage of their Santa Barbara home. Mark had just seen them on his way back from a business trip.

We went out for dinner, played Connect 4 with Emily. He brought his phone to me and I'm just looking at all these pictures of Emily and they were taken the Friday before. Just horrific. Yeah. And she was just goofing around with a book, making all these funny faces. and you could tell she was loving life.

The Palumbos had recently embarked on a new business venture with Dr. Han. I really love the guy. I mean, he really was smart and curious and open-minded.

He had to come with food and in shorts and flip-flops, you know, just no air about him. But what made you trust him? His passion.

Yeah. The way he cared about people. Don Goldberg had known Dr. Han for more than 25 years and thought of him as a brother. To Don, he was just Henry.

I was approximately 10 years older than Henry, but he still called me his younger brother. You just don't come across a friend like Henry. It's once in a lifetime friendship. When they met, Henry was making a name for himself after immigrating from China, where he came from a family of physicians. He would soon take over the Santa Barbara Herb Clinic.

I had several patients who had had medication side effects. They would say, "I went to see Dr. Han and it went away and it was like, I got to meet this guy."

Dr. Glenn Miller, a psychiatrist, says he and Henry developed a mutual respect and even partnered on a book about how Eastern and Western medicine could work together to improve patients quality of life.

Henry's practice was flourishing as far as active patients he would see like in a month. It was hundreds. But he also tried to balance it. In 2009, that balance he was seeking became a reality when Henry met and married Jenny U.

He seemed incredibly happy. It was good to see Henry that happy. Jenny was absolutely warm and lovely.

When they had Emily, the dream was complete. Henry was just on cloud nine. He was very proud father. They were often together at the clinic where Jenny had quickly become Henry's right hand, says her friend Isaiah Oregon.

He really trusted her and let her kind of take the reigns. In the spring of 2016,

it's my turn. They were getting ready to celebrate Emily's sixth birthday. Where should I go?

Wherever. Go wherever. We were making plans for a birthday party and, you know, had all her presents wrapped. But just three days shy of her birthday, her loved ones were stricken with grief.

I don't really have adequate words to describe how I felt. The sadness is too deep.

As night fell on the Han estate on Wednesday, March 23rd, Don tried to process what he had just witnessed. He had called 911 when he couldn't find the Hans anywhere. And he was with sheriff's deputies when they discovered the bodies in the garage wrapped in plastic.

None of it made any sense at all. Prosecutor Ben Leaden says it was shortly before midnight when Santa Barbara Sheriff's investigators obtained a search warrant and began to piece together what had happened inside the house. It appeared the family had been shot while they slept upstairs on the second floor. Henry in the couple's bedroom and Jenny and Emily across the hall in Emily's room.

Emily's room was tough to see. Mom probably read her stories to have Emily go to sleep that night and was sleeping with her.

What did that tell you about the depravity of the kind of person who could do something like that? What were they after? We didn't know what he was after, but the depravity, I've never seen anything like it.

Detectives picked up on the distinct smell of the murderer's attempts to cover his tracks.

The smell of bleach was there. We had bleach bottles found. There were bleach stains on the carpet and throughout other items upstairs. And then you see bloody things in a washing machine. All the bedding which had been stripped from the beds was found piled in the laundry room and in the machine.

The washing machine the alarm had gone off because it the load was unbalanced and within there are a huge group of bloody sheets

wedged in pillows in the laundry. Crime scene investigators found a 22 caliber bullet and bullet fragments. Three matching shell casings were found within the wrapping of Jenny's body. and one was later found lodged between the baseboard and box spring of Emily's bed.

We had one bullet that was a through and through. It was perfect for comparison for the murder weapon. As things are going, we start to find clues as to who potentially could be involved. Inside a paper bag next to Henry's bed, detectives found a document signed the last day Henry was seen alive. It provided a name.

It's basically a four-page business contract between two partners. Partner one, Pierre Hopp, and partner two, Dr. Han.

Don Goldberg knew a Pierre that Dr. Han was associated with. But Don thought he was harmless. I did not think that Pierre was capable of murder. I never really saw Pierre become angry or agitated.

But the Palumbos had a bad feeling. He didn't trust him. I did not. This community was left with a scar. The indelible scar left by the murders was the kind that not even Dr. Han could have healed.

Wow. It was like a bomb exploded. Nobody could move for weeks. There was something very, very, very dark going on. Kimberly Ruff says Dr. Han treated her family for two decades. He could do anything.

Ever since she was diagnosed with thyroid cancer shortly after giving birth to her son, Kimberly says Dr. Hans's holistic approach allowed her to nurse her newborn while still treating her tumors.

No matter how scared you might be or or frightened, you just left feeling like it's going to be okay. Yeah, he was something.

Instilling hope may have been one of the secrets to why his patients say Dr. Han could heal just about anything.

Dr. Han like saved my life. Sher Buron was also a young mother with cancer when she went to Dr. Han.

My daughter Abby was 15 months old. I felt a lump under my armpit. Even though she had the prescribed surgery and chemotherapy, she credits Dr. Han with her survival.

There was so many people that passed away around me. He got me through it. What was the impact for you of his loss?

It's the fear of if something comes back and I'm trying every day to be positive and try to stay with his level of calm and how much confidence he had that like everything's taken care of.

That conviction is what had drawn the Palumbos who worked in the skincare industry into their partnership with Dr. Han hoping to treat various skin maladies.

Henry was very interested in CBD. Having used CBD in his practice to treat pain and inflammation, Henry wanted to harness its full potential. It was groundbreaking science at the time, and he wanted 25-year-old Pierre Hopp to help develop it. Pierre, from what we gathered, had a lot of experience uh in laboratories, in this case relating to CBD.

Henry had taken a liking to Pierre after meeting him through another associate. But the Palumbos were uncomfortable with Pierre from the start. You know how when you meet somebody, you can't put your finger on it, but something's not right? That was Pierre. There was always this kind of little boiling simmer.

When it came time to do the lab work, the Palumbos say the results were disturbing.

What we came to find out was he was using toxic materials. When we called him on it, they said, you know, I'm just learning more about the molecules. It was just weird.

As it turned out, Pierre wasn't a formerly trained scientist. He didn't even have a college degree. The more you got under that surface, the more you realize that he could talk a game and stay over the folks heads a bit scientifically.

Sounds like he was sort of a snake oil salesman type, right? Sophisticated one, but yes.

Yeah, very sophisticated one. There was more eyebrow raising behavior. Pierre had also made odd charges on Henry's account.

I was doing all the finances and I'm like, this doesn't look right. Not a business expense.

Not at all. After Mara flagged the charges to Henry, he discovered they were for escort services.

Henry was, "You won't believe this. Pier's out." That was the final straw. That was Henry's final straw.

But then a few weeks before the murders, Mark and Mara say Henry brought up Pierre out of the blue.

Henry mentioned that he had learned a lot more about Pierre's upbringing, how much Pierre had to overcome. from his childhood. Mark Norai really responded. We didn't want to have Pierre back in our fold at all. The Palumbos were not alone in being wary of Pierre. Jenny's friend Isaiah says Jenny also had concerns and confided in him about them 4 days before the murders.

It was weighing on her heavily. Do we trust him? Do we give him another chance? I was like, absolutely not. If he stole from you before, he's going to steal from you again. But Pierre had already ingratiated himself back into Henry's goodwill.

Henry had a very trusting nature. Henry had shared with me that Pierre told him that he was ill, that it was late cancer and that he was going to do what he could to help Pierre

using Henry's good nature by lying to him, by manipulating him. Authorities learned that Pierre had been an overnight guest at the Hans home before the murders and had formed a new partnership with the healer. There was that contract found in the master bedroom they had signed the last day of Henry's life. But prosecutor Ben Leenig says it didn't seem legitimate.

It was like a college sophomore drafted it. It was not notorized, not witnessed.

Detectives had found something else of interest. A brilliant detective found packaging to the plastic wrapping that all three of the Han family were wrapped in in a trash can in the kitchen area. Next to packaging of 3M duct tape, similar to the duct tape that was used to wrap all three of the bodies.

He recognized the plastic wrap was a Home Depot brand and reached out to the company's security department. And Home Depot was within hours of us getting entry into the house able to run those two items together to see if they had been purchased in the Southern California region within the last several days or weeks. A Home Depot in Oceanside, California, had security footage of a man who matched the DMV photo of Pierre Hopp, who also happened to have an Oceanside address.

And that was bam. We knew he's walking out with three huge plastic rolls and sure enough, duct tape.

So within hours of the crime scene being discovered, Pierre Hopp became person of interest.

Yes. But where was Pierre now? Detectives had a hunch. Data from the Han cell phones, which were missing, showed they were traveling south, further and further from Santa Barbara.

Then, inexplicably, Henry's phone goes dark, but Jenny's is still on, and it keeps going south. We're getting basically digital footprints leading down to the Oceanside area from a dead woman's phone.

Anytime you're trying to stop somebody that is wanted for homicide, the stakes are going to be high. The day after the Han family was found murdered, a manhunt was underway in Oceanside, California, nearly 200 miles from the crime scene. Sergeant Anthony Flores and his partner were part of the local Oceanside police team, assisting the Santa Barbara investigation.

We had come in to work with our special enforcement section, and we were going to be the stop car for that day if given a window of opportunity to take him into custody or potentially stop him. Meanwhile, undercover detectives were conducting surveillance at the residence Pierre Hop shared with his father and updating all units, including the homicide team that had driven down from Santa Barbara with prosecutor Ben Leidden.

All of a sudden, we get chatter on our intercoms. Dad's on the move. The surveillance team followed Pierre's father as he drove to a Walmart parking lot where security cameras captured him meeting up with none other than Pierre.

That's dad driving in sedan and then you see the Lexus following shortly behind. They appear to be communicating briefly together. You can just see that trunk pop.

Yeah. On dad's car. After transferring two large duffel bags to Pierre's car, they both drove off.

We got to move quickly. It was a little after midnight and we just got the update that the suspect was on the move. As we're traveling, we're hearing that he's pulling into the Arco station. He had a few miles of a head start.

The other units and Leenig had pulled over by the Arco station waiting for the arrest team to arrive. And all of a sudden you see an unmarked car drive right through the middle of that intersection. Sparks fly and it just basically comes in and pulls in and lays on the brakes. Two huge dudes get out of the car and pull gun on him and prone them out. And our eyes are like saw. We're like, "Wo,

it's 200 m away that this investigation started and it culminated here." Sergeant Flores had handcuffed Pierre. What do you remember about that arrest? I remember it going down really fast. All of our senses were heightened.

Within 48 hours of the murders, investigators had the Han family's alleged killer in custody. Pierre Hopp waved his Miranda rights and started talking to detectives. What he told them was something out of a spy thriller. He claimed that his life was in danger. Over the past couple of days, I I kid you not, I've been shot at probably about five individuals so far that I shot in self-defense.

He claimed he was being targeted because of a scientific marvel he had invented.

What does it do? It's um it's a very very advanced energy source. It's a quantum kind of energy source. I think probably at least 15 individuals who have been connected to this project are are dead.

Pier said he had gone to Dr. Han's house earlier in the week to install one of his perpetual energy devices and that the plastic wrap and duct tape he was seen purchasing were for that purpose.

Dr. Henry, we um we signed a contract together. He was going to facilitate taking the technology out to China. Loved loved the guy to death. He really um really liked this project. Pierre said he had left Santa Barbara around 2 p.m. on March 22nd, the day before the murders after signing the contract, but detectives pushed back.

Is there more to this story that you're not telling me? Dr. Han has been murdered.

What? I had no clue that Oh my gosh. Everything was perfectly fine when I left. Pierre was adamant he would never hurt the family and insisted the shadowy figures who had been after him had killed the Hans and were trying to frame him for murder.

I wanted a technology that changes the world at oil companies and people don't want this technology out there.

It was this massive conspiracy to keep this next level energy system from getting out to market. James Bond, Mission Impossible, this fantastical life. I jumped out the window.

Pierre's outlandish story continued, but then detectives received an unexpected call from someone who claimed to have information about the murders.

I'm a pretty rough around the edges guy. I have rough around the edges friends.

TJ Dorito was a marijuana grower who said Dr. Han had approached him about supplying CBDrich strains. TJ had also met Pierre.

Dr. Henry had told me that he was like a prodigy street chemist. He had done some stuff that was ahead of his time.

So, a little bit of a mad scientist, I would say. Yeah. According to TJ, Pierre had a penchant for making up grandiose stories to seek attention, but he befriended him nonetheless.

He was that awkward kid that wanted to fit in, and I was the guy in high school that stuck up for kids like that. So, I took an interest in him in that regard. Do you think he trusted you then?

Oh, he absolutely trusted me. As TJ revealed to detectives, Pierre had reached out to him via text the morning of the murders. The message sent at 9:39 a.m. said, "I need your help with something urgently, like it's urgent."

What was he asking for? Uh, he needed my help moving something. He says Pierre told him he was in Santa Barbara and needed to talk face to face. So TJ had him come to his house in Thousand Oaks about an hour away.

The first thing out of his mouth, just so you know, I'm a monster. He had told me right then and there that he had killed Dr. Henry, his wife, and his child, and needed help.

Did he give you details of what he did? He did. TJ told detectives Pierre said he had tried to put the bodies in his car, but they wouldn't all fit and Henry was too heavy. Details Leenig says only the killer would know.

How the killings were done, how the bodies were wrapped up, how he had the doctor's phone.

TJ told detectives Pierre had also revealed his motive, $20 million that he planned to drain from Henry's accounts after killing the family. TJ says he didn't know if what he was hearing was another one of Pierre's far-fetched stories. And until he knew for sure, he decided to play along.

I just wanted to get him out of the house and confirm whether what he had just said was true or not. I said, "Let me work on it and I'll call you later."

Once Pierre was gone, TJ tried to reach Dr. Han and anyone who might have information to no avail.

I didn't want to call the police because I didn't I wasn't sure yet. It was chaotic. It was it was scary and also confusing.

Pierre kept messaging him around 5:00 p.m. when TJ still hadn't provided any assistance. Pierre texted him with a proposition. Want to come to Vegas tonight? All pay. What did you think the reason for that all of a sudden trip to Vegas?

At that point, I wasn't sure. Didn't sound right. It was probably going to kill me and somehow make it look like I had something to do with it. you were going to be the fall guy,

right? TJ made up an excuse why he couldn't go. And Pierre would send him one final text at 7:35 that night. Yep, I'm screwed. They just found everything. My life's over. Only if I'd got to it all sooner. Legg says Pierre had just returned to the crime scene with a big truck to transport the bodies, but law enforcement had beaten him to the scene. He knew his goose was cooked.

Pierre Hopp's arrest near Oceanside, California had come at a critical juncture. He was armed with a 9mm handgun that was in plain view on the driver's side floorboard. He also had his passport and those duffel bags which he had received from his father minutes earlier.

Two go bags, basically whatever you need, clothes, everything for the person to live for months.

Hopsh's father was also detained and questioned, but he was released later that morning.

We could have charged him as an accessory, but we didn't have any indication that dad was involved in any way, shape, or form in the killing. The next day, during a closer examination of Hopp's car at the crime lab,

you name it, we found it in that car. There was Henry's wallet, credit card, and social security number along with an expended shell casing. There were also the victim's phones and tablet, all wrapped in aluminum foil in an attempt to evade tracking. In the trunk, you lift up where the spare tire would be, the murder weapon, suppressor, silencer, ammunition.

A week after the murders, the autopsies revealed the victims had been shot 14 times, three each into Henry and Jenny. And most disturbing, eight in Emily.

That ammunition is the same stuff that we found at the crime scene in the deedants bodies. Match, match, match, match, match everything. Pierre Hopp was charged with three counts of firstdegree murder, making him eligible for the death penalty.

It was one of the most challenging cases, if not the most challenging case I ever came upon.

Defense attorney Christine Voss, who was with the public defender's office at the time, represented Hops.

He really wanted to be vindicated. To me, the goal was for him to not get death. At the 11th hour, the DA's office agreed to wave the death penalty in exchange for a more expedient bench trial, which meant a judge, not jury, would render a verdict. On October 25th, 2021, more than 5 and 1/2 years after the murders, the prosecution delivered its opening statement and laid out its theory of the case that Pierre Hopp had plotted the murder of the Han family for financial gain. They painted him as a career con man who up until the murders flaunted his intelligence and supposed wealth. His entire life's drive was being rich.

He sent screenshots of his Chase account from anywhere from about $3 million up to $940 million to various people attempting to dupe them that he's this jet setting billionaire. Hops claimed he had received big offers for his energy technology.

I am not a scientist, but I don't know that there's a such thing as a perpetual energy machine.

But several years before the murders, Hopp was actually being paid to build one.

It was going to be a new source of energy as if he was, you know, an Elon Musk.

Samantha Spyell met Pierre Hopped circa 2012 when he moved into a penthouse apartment in a luxury high-rise she managed in Tempe, Arizona. He pulled up and had this bright red Ferrari. It was very flashy.

Leinik says Hopp had duped a group of high rolling investors into financing his invention until they realized it didn't actually work.

He had basically defrauded all these people and the money dried up. When the murders were committed, I think he had less than $500 to his name. Prosecutors presented a detailed timeline retracing Hopscha's movements, including his digital footprint in the days before and after the murders. They say as early as March 17th, 6 days before the murders, he had looked into impersonating the doctor at his bank.

He's searching for Asian disguises and real flesh masks, like a Mission Impossible face mask,

100%. This is his fantastical world that he lived in. There's no evidence he ever purchased a mask, but a timestamped receipt and security video placed him at an Arizona gun store 4 days before the murders. Purchasing ammunition and two firearms, including the alleged murder weapon,

22 pistol with a threaded barrel for what is a silencer or suppressor. On March 20th, he was back in Oceanside, California, buying supplies before driving up to the Hans house under the guise of installing the energy machine. Instead, Leine says Hopsch bugged Henry's computer with a spyware app called a key logger.

What key loggers do is every stroke, every click of the mouse, every navigation page you go, it documents all of it. To their surprise, investigators also found the key logger on Hopscha's laptop. On March 21st, while Hops was still at the Hans home, the key logger had recorded chilling search terms on his laptop.

What part of the skull is more penetrable? What ammunition would be better? As a guest in Dr. Han's house, staying there for the two nights before planning this execution style murder.

Yes. Pierre Hops left the Han residence on March 22nd, but prosecutors allege he went back around 4:00 a.m. the next morning to carry out the murders. They say later that day, he began frantically trying to siphon money from Henry's accounts.

He's using phones. He's using fake email accounts. He's doing all these things from personal identifying information of Dr. Hans that he stole earlier that week. A Chase fraud alert had flagged an attempted payment for $72,000. Meanwhile, Hopp also rented that big truck he allegedly drove to the crime scene hoping to move the bodies.

There are black and whites all over that house. The crime scene's being processed.

The Palumbo say the meeting they were supposed to have with Henry just hours after he was murdered had foiled Pierre Hopscha's plans. He thought that he had that whole day to clean up his mess before Henry would be missed

and we screwed it up for him happily. That's when prosecutors say he fled driving south toward Oceanside. Leenig argues Hopscha's subsequent searches betray his guilty conscience. Is cars searched entering Tijuana? How crime scene investigation works? and how long do fingerprints take to process? Incredibly, he even consulted an online psychic named Count Marco and asked him, "Will I get caught for what I did?"

And Count Marco replies, "Well, what did you do, Pierre?" Pierre Hopp never gave Count Marco an explanation, but on the stand, he couldn't stop talking. This was a tough case, but that didn't change the fact that Pierre was entitled to a vigorous defense.

Defense attorney Christine Voss was in an unusual position. This was a really well investigated case because my client wanted to have a trial and wanted me to turn every stone. I did

turn every stone and raise any possible reasonable doubt. You argued that there were elements presented that were implausible, unprovable, and simply impossible. Those were your words.

Yeah. Voss expressed concerns that the alleged murder weapon and silencer found in Hopsia's car didn't match up.

It absolutely did not connect to the firearm that they believed was the murder weapon. She seized on discrepancies in the location data from Hopsia's car and phone that the prosecution had used in its timeline. He could not possibly have been in San Diego and Santa Barbara simultaneously or Thousand Oaks and Santa Barbara simultaneously, but that's what the GPS data showed.

And she attacked the credibility of the prosecution's star witness, TJ Darita. Voss questioned why Darita waited nearly two days to contact authorities and argued in that time he could have gotten details about the crime scene that the prosecution claimed only the killer knew.

It was not the best kept crime scene. He was making various phone calls after he heard about the death of Dr. Han. But Voss concedes much of Darita's testimony was corroborated by the evidence.

This case was over within the first 72 hours. In fact, the only witness who provided testimony that someone other than Pierre Hopp was the killer was Pierre Hopp. During three days on the stand, he repeated the action-packed account he had given detectives about having shootouts with shadowy figures. Now, he said he was sure they were sent by the Department of Energy.

It sounds like there'd be a trail of bodies, but yet is there proof of this trail of bodies anywhere to your knowledge?

No. Which further made him believe it was the Department of Energy? And what about all that evidence investigators found?

The DOE planted them there. It's all a frame. All that stuff is framed. The banking stuff frame job. What's in my car? frame job.

It was difficult for me to embrace Pierre's testimony. Do you think he himself believed some of the things he was saying were true?

Oh, yeah, definitely. He was obsessed with the government. Samantha Spyell attests there were some kernels of truth in his stories. Pierre mentioned that his dad had ties to the CIA and I could tell that he wanted his dad's approval. When his father died in 2023, his obituary stated he was a key player in clandestine central intelligence agency operations during the 1980s. Hop also told Spyell that his sister was going to star in a reality TV show. She got cast on a newlyweds reality show and Pier was gonna be in it. Come to find out that was true.

In fact, both Hops and his father made appearances on the second season of the Bravo TV series Newlyweds the first year.

Start by filling that up. Pierre was even shown giving his brother-in-law a cooking lesson.

More black pepper. But prosecutor Ben Leenig argued any grains of authenticity in Hopsh's life were far outweighed by deceit. You called him a lying liar who lies about lying.

Right. Lie, lie, lie, lie. Hundreds of lies we found on him. His life was a con.

On November 24th, 2021, Judge Brian Hill would get the case. None of Pierre Hopscha's family members attended his trial. The judge made his ruling guilty on all counts. The judge when he issued his ruling said his decision was beyond a shadow of a doubt. Absolutely no doubt of Pierre Hops's guilt.

Yeah. Very satisfactory to hear that. I wasn't surprised. And what was Pierre's reaction upon hearing that ruling? Well, he was visibly disappointed.

On April 15th, 2022, Pierre Hopp was sentenced to three life terms without the possibility of parole. It was little comfort to those still mourning Henry, Jenny, and Emily.

I don't understand how there really could be justice. He's still alive and and they're not. He took precious moments that we'll never get.

I want him to feel every pain possible for what he did. Not enough bad things can happen for him.

Nearly a decade after the murders, the wounds are still raw. It's hard to think of them.

He was a really good man. You don't replace a Henry Han. No. Pretty much every day I think of Henry and Jenny and Emily.

There's an old phrase that a good man and a good family lives for a limited time but a good name shall live forever. They lived too short but their name lives on forever. Welcome to Postmortem. I'm your host, Ann Marie Green, and today we're discussing the Han family murders. In March of 2016, the bodies of Dr. Henry Han, his wife Jenny, and their 5-year-old daughter Emily were discovered wrapped in plastic in the family's garage. Now, there is a lot to get into here. Uh, so joining me now is 48 Hours correspondent Natalie Morales, who worked on this hour. Uh, Natalie, thanks for, uh, joining us again.

Thanks for having me once again, Emory. And of course, a reminder to everyone that if you haven't listened to the 48 hours episode that we're about to discuss, head on over to your podcast feed, you'll find the full audio version there. Take a listen and then come on back. So, shortly after police discover the bodies of Dr. Han and his wife, uh, Jenny and their daughter, um, a trail of evidence led them to Pierre Hobsh. He's a former business associate of Dr. Hans. And in the hour, the prosecutor called Pierre a lying liar who lies about lying. Uh it certainly seems like he was able to spin stories quite well. Well enough to I mean endear himself to some pretty smart people. What do we actually know about Pierre though and his connection to Dr. Han?

Well, Dr. Dr. Henry Han had hired Pierre to develop um a CBD product and it was part of his new business venture that he had started with a couple of other partners. But he then fired Pierre once he discovered that Pierre had been using his credit card to charge for escort services uh among other things on his business account. However, just weeks before the murders, it seemed like Pierre was able to get back into Henry's good graces. Now, prosecutors, as you mentioned, describe him as a lying liar who lies about lying, and they describe him as a career con man. Um, I should point out he was never convicted of previous cons. But, uh, Pierre did tell authorities though that he didn't have a college degree, but he lived in a college town in Arizona. He would go to the library a lot. He was self-taught.

He was fascinated with the idea of energy and technology. And according to prosecutors, this wasn't his first con. Allegedly, Pierre had duped a group of investors in Arizona into giving him money to build this so-called perpetual energy machine. And his story then just grew from there. You know, he Pierre is like one of those um sort of characters that we see that you think, gosh, you were able to endear yourself to many, many people who are smart and who are good with money. If only you had funneled that in a different direction, you know. But let's talk about this perpetual energy machine. Pier's own attorney said in the hour that you don't have to be a scientist to know that a perpetual energy machine does not exist.

Yeah. It it implies it just, you know, creates it. its own energy source. So according to the prosecution, Pierre apparently did demonstrations for this group of investors back in Arizona. However, in those demos twice, they found an external energy source that was sort of plugged into this so-called perpetual energy machine. The first time apparently there was, you know, like a car battery that it was connected to. And the second time, um, investors actually traced back and they found what were like wires running underground into this prototype. So, you know, we did try to reach out to these investors in Arizona. Unfortunately, we didn't hear back from any of them. Um I I think what was particularly challenging about this hour is of course you know there's a young child who's killed like he he kills the entire family and I was hoping as the hour was unfolding to hear and they found Emily in the bedroom sleeping

or something like that. I just I thought why a child? I think that's the hardest thing to try to understand. Wiping out the whole family the way he did and little Emily who was just three days shy of her sixth birthday. You know, hard to believe that money was purely the motive here, but prosecutors believe that Pierre had targeted Henry Han because he was flat broke. I think he had $500 left in his bank account, according to the prosecutor. Also, uh, Pier was apparently desperate for a real relationship. So much to the point, as we told you, he was hiring escorts to have companionship and apparently he fell in love, according to the prosecutor, with one of the escorts and outright gave that that escort a $10,000 payment. So, there went more money. Now, Pierre had told people, including uh his friend TJ Darita, that he wanted to move to Russia because he felt he clicked more with the women there. A and

Pierre's friend TJ uh also told investigators that Pierre confessed to him, as you saw in the hour, about the murders. But he said in that confession that his his motive was purely financial, that he planned to drain the money out of Dr. Henry Han's account. He said that, you know, as long as he felt like he kept making these transfers, perhaps um no one would be the wiser for it. You know, once he did start to try to make those transfers, I believe the first amount was $72,000 that he tried to take out of Dr. Henry Han's account.

Well, that triggered a bank fraud alert, as you would hope. The banks are on to this kind of thing, and that transaction never went through. I mean, I don't know why he thought that would work. I literally get a bank fraud alert when I try to buy like a train ticket. I mean the the banks are really sensitive to this stuff these days. Right. So

right especially this went against Dr. Han's usual I mean if usually if there were big transfers like that maybe it would pass but in this case Dr. Henry Han wasn't that kind of man to just transfer that amount of money like that. So here's the thing about the scene. This is a guy who, you know, thinks he's planned everything out, but then he's left with a very, I mean, messy crime scene that he he tries to clean up, but he's kind of unsuccessful. Investigators find bleach stains and bloody sheets in in the laundry room, and very quickly, police zero in on Pierre is a person of interest.

Yeah, I mean, that's right. The prosecutors believe that, you know, Pierre's plan was to get rid of the bodies, to clean up the scene, make it look like the Hans were actually missing instead of dead. But he doesn't account for the weight of the bodies and being able to fit the bodies, all three of them, in his car. Keep in mind, there was this business meeting that very next morning, and Mark and Mara Palumbo, friends and business partners of Dr. Hans, they start to call and they're worried and that's when they send Don Goldberg, you know, who's such a good friend of Dr. Hans, to go check out the house and that's when investigators have then called to the house and they discover the bodies and this horrific crime scene. The other kind of component to this investigation is that there was a huge amount of digital evidence that led investigators to Pierre. So, this is a guy who's supposed to be pretty savvy,

right, when it comes to computers, but he leaves like this tremendous digital footprint,

right? Let's let's start first with the fact that he had placed this key logger device on Dr. Han's computer, but also he left it plugged into his computer so that all the keystrokes were basically tracing right back to Pierre's computer. Um, security video was also found placing him at an Arizona gun store 4 days prior to the murders, purchasing ammunition and two firearms, including the alleged murder weapon. Now, investigators also traced the plastic wrap that was found used to wrap the bodies to a Home Depot in Oceanside.

That's Southern California, right near where Pierre lived. So, they go to that Home Depot and as you know with Home Depot, they have great surveillance footage. So, they had footage of him leaving the Home Depot with that plastic wrap and also duct tape. I was also impressed with how rapidly Home Depot was able to pinpoint where these purchases were made. I feel like I've done several postmortems where we've talked about Home Depot being like clutch when it came to investigating. It's remarkable. I mean, I just reported on another story in the Fandrich case where um the video surveillance footage from Home Depot was crystal clear. It could spot the suspect at the time leaving with a big package of goods and even having the receipts. You know, Home Depot keeps track of the receipts. So, once they identify the time of purchase, they can go back into their receipts and their computer system and that's where

they then are able to track the surveillance footage as well. Um, it's unbelievable. And then Pierre was also captured on surveillance camera meeting his father in a Walmart parking lot. That's where um the father gave him two big duffel bags, which investigators say were go bags. Go bags meaning, you know, a bag that had enough supplies and clothing that he could live on for months. Um we should say Pierre's father was not charged uh with any crime in that. There was no indication that that Pierre's father was involved in any way according to the prosecutor. But Pierre also took with him the victim's phones.

Um he had wrapped the phones in in aluminum foil trying to evade any sort of tracking.

I had no idea wrapping phones in aluminum foil was a thing, but it it doesn't seem like it would work. Not always. And in this case, you know, it was it was maybe not wrapped well enough, but investigators were able to track one of the phones. It was pinging all the way to Oceanside, California. Yeah. It actually became really sort of pivotal when it comes to the investigation. So, after the breaker, we're going to talk about that. We're also going to talk about his defense in court. Welcome back. So investigators closed in on Pierre at a gas station in the Oceanside, California area. He was arrested nearly 48 hours after the murder. Not a lot of time goes by and ultimately the evidence points to Pierre and no one else as the Hans killer.

Yeah. I mean, and the evidence, there was plenty of it right in Pierre's car. I mean, they found Henry's wallet, his credit card, social security number, an expended shell casing, which would trace back to the bullets that were found in the victims, the victim's phones, and as I pointed out earlier, all wrapped in aluminum foil as if trying to evade being tracked. Um, they also uncovered some pretty damning internet searches, according to investigators Pierre made in the hours following the murder. You know, he asked, "Is a car searched when entering Tijuana? How do crime scene investigations work? How long does it take for fingerprints to process?" And the the interesting one, he consulted an online psychic named Count Marco, and he asked, "Will I get caught for what I did?" And Count Marco replied, "What did you do, Pierre?" Well, you know, and think investigators were the ones who were able to answer that, "Yes, Pierre,

you will get caught." And he did. Indeed. Absolutely. It's a very smart response and I wonder how much those psychics hear. Um, and you know what I mean? And you wouldn't want

the confessions they get. Can you imagine? And also, you would I'm sure they don't want to be wrapped up or implicated in anything. So, just, you know, keep it vague. Keep it vague. So, as we discussed a little bit earlier, Pierre had actually confessed to murdering the Han family to a friend of his, TJ Darita, just hours afterwards. While Pierre was in custody, detectives got a phone call from TJ who then tells them about Pierre's confession. But he waited 2 days, Natalie. And I kept on wondering like what what are you doing?

What took you so long? I know. And we asked TJ Darita that point blank. You know, he's he said that Pierre always told these bizarre, outlandish stories. So, he wasn't quite sure what to believe at that point. He was making phone calls to all of Dr. Henry Han's office, to his business associates, trying to track him down to see what was true, what wasn't true. Now, once TJ learned that the murders had happened, he said he then started to worry that the police would think that he was somehow involved. So TJ said he was so scared he called his brother who happens to be a judge. His brother told him, "You need to go to the police right away. Tell your story. You know, make sure they know what's what's real and what happened here." The defense at trial, of course, they they saw this as as an opportunity to poke holes in in what TJ told in his testimony. They questioned, "If you were so scared, why

didn't you go to police right away?" Because police would would have protected him. And they also questioned TJ's credibility because TJ had worked in the porn industry in in the marketing area of the porn industry. As TJ said, he worked with some rough around the edges kinds of friends. The judge felt though that that line of questioning was irrelevant and the defense had to concede in this case much of what TJ Darita testified to was corroborated by the evidence and even in those text exchanges with Pierre in the aftermath.

Um, it seems like before learning about the murders, TJ had sort of some sympathy for Pierre. Do we know, I mean, how this friendship started, what the nature of their friendship was, why he kind of felt sorry for him? TJ says he felt sorry for Pierre because he saw Pierre as being very socially awkward. You know, Pierre would share with him the stories of not being able to get a date, not being able to have a real relationship, and and TJ said he was always that guy in high school that stuck up for the kids who were bullied.

He was just that kind of guy. So, he tried to make him feel like he belonged. Pierre would send him pictures of himself working out at 4:00 a.m. looking all buff just to try to make himself feel like he and TJ could hang and be friends. TJ said he just kind of went along with it because he felt bad for him.

Wow. Um, so the thing about Pierre though is he strikes me once again as one of those characters who thinks he's a little bit smarter than he actually is. Right? So he waves his Miranda rights and he talks to detectives without his attorney present. Um, I want to play a clip of the detectives questioning Pierre about the Han murders.

Obviously, you're suspecting it's me. I guess that's why you're you're asking it like that. You're the last person who is there with him. What happened?

I no clue that. Oh my gosh. Everything was perfectly fine when I left. Everything was perfectly fine when I left. So, just a reminder for those who watch the episode, Pierre admits he was at the house. He'd stayed with them the night before, but there he is talking to investigators and he's trying to make up this, you know, trying to tell them that he's

clueless in all of this. And he spins this fantastical story uh about how he was being targeted by these shadowy figures that were wanting his um his perpetual energy machine. and and he said that he had engaged in three different shootouts and and that he felt like his life was in danger as well as the life of his father and his sister. So he said he was afraid for them. And I asked his defense attorney in the hour, well then if he tells this whole fantastical story, you would assume there would be a trail of bodies. And you know, she had to acknowledge, of course, there was there was no such record of any of that.

Yeah. I mean, three different shootouts, that would be pretty easy for police to verify.

Yeah, that sounded like a a spy thriller more than it was actual an actual life.

Yeah. So, ultimately though, Pierre is charged with three counts of firstdegree murder. The DA's office agrees to wave the death penalty in exchange for a more expedient bench trial, which means it's only a judge, no jury. A judge is going to render the verdict. uh Pierre decides to take the stand. What did he hope to convey to the judge? You know, at least when you're taking the stand in front of a jury, there's a possibility that one person may be influenced, but a judge, I mean, that's that's quite a challenge. His defense attorney said that he wanted to be vindicated. He really seemed to believe what he was saying. Now, I think he also believed that he could convince the courts. I mean, here's a guy he's, as you said, very persuasive. He he's managed to convince allegedly, you know, these investors who went along with his so-called energy machine plan back when he was living in Arizona. So, maybe he

thought, well, you know, I can convince the court as well. Um he shared a lot of detail in his testimony though a lot of it didn't make sense according to to the prosecutor Ben Leidden. Pierre's explanation on the stand for the murders was that he was being framed by the Department of Energy that any incriminating physical or digital evidence he said had been planted by the Department of Energy. Again, there's no evidence pointing to the Department of Energy in any of this. his defense attorney asked Pierre on the stand if he had ever been diagnosed with a mental illness. Pierre denied that. So, um, you know, I think she was trying to allude to the fact that Pierre perhaps might have had an undiagnosed mental illness,

right? Giving him some sort of excuse, I I guess in a way for for the behavior.

Yeah. Uh, and then Pierre was found guilty of of murdering the Han family on April 15th, 2022. He sentenced to three life terms without the possibility of parole. So, he appeals the conviction through the California courts. And while his appeal was pending, he also petitioned the US Supreme Court to release him. In March of 2025, the court denied his final petition. So, is there any further legal action that Pierre can take at this point?

Well, I believe that he could file other petitions or motions perhaps based on, you know, if there's new information or evidence, but all of that again is is hypothetical. You know, whatever legal recourse he thinks he might have though, um, you know, there's just so much evidence as we see in this case against him, it's hard to believe that any further motions that anything could come of that.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, to hear Dr. Han's friends talk about him. I mean, he wasn't just a nice guy and a good friend. He really did change people's lives. And here's a guy who a little bit later on in life finds the love of his life and has this beautiful child. I mean, these are people doing everything right. There just so much potential cut short. And I think that's truly who Dr. Henry Han and his whole family was I mean Dr. Henry Han really believed that he could help people and was doing that. We talked to a few of the cancer survivors that he worked with who talked so lovingly about his healing powers.

They believed, you know, that he really was the real deal and um in the darkest moments of their lives, he was the one who was there for them. And yeah, she's hard to even imagine the loss of little Emily, you know, as I said, just a couple of days before her birthday. I mean, I think that's especially heartbreaking. And I think I'll end this by, you know, saying again what Don Goldberg said, a good man's name is his legacy. Nearly a decade later, they're all remembered by those who knew and love them.

Yeah, that that was very very obvious. Um, it w it was a really good story, Natalie. Thank you, Amory. And to our listeners, uh, if you like this podcast, please rate and review on Apple Podcast or on Spotify.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Murder suspect asked online psychic: "Will I get caught for what I did?" | "48 Hours" Full Episode"?

In order: 0:00 Don Goldberg, Alternative medicine, Ben Leaden, Glenn Miller; 10:00 Oceanside, Pierre Hopp, Home Depot, Oceanside, California; 20:00 Pierre Hopp, Anthony Flores, Bench trial, Christine Voss; 30:00 Pierre Hopp, Oceanside, Samantha Spyell, Christine Voss; 40:00 Henry Han, Perpetual energy machine, Don Goldberg, Key logger; 50:00 Home Depot, TJ Darita, Oceanside, Bench trial; 1:00:00 Apple Podcast, Ben Leidden, Department of Energy, Don Goldberg.

What is mentioned in this 48 Hours episode?

41 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Emily Han, Jenny Han, Mark Palumbo, Pierre Hopp, Henry Han, Oceanside. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Murder suspect asked online psychic: "Will I get caught for what I did?" | "48 Hours" Full Episode"?

The episode runs 1 h 4 min; the transcript is about 9,577 words in 194 timestamped sections.

More from 48 Hours

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 4, 2026.