Transcript

Benjamin Franklin | The Flame of Liberty | American History Tellers | Podcast

From American History Tellers · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 39 min · 6,346 words · 50 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Benjamin Franklin | The Flame of Liberty | American History Tellers | Podcast", an episode of American History Tellers published September 2, 2025 (39 min, about 6,346 words). It mentions 61 people, works and ideas, including Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin), France, Continental Congress, Kingdom of Great Britain, Temple Franklin (William Temple Franklin).

What this episode is about

The narrative unfolds during a tense meeting in September 1776, where British commanders attempt to negotiate peace with American leaders Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, and Edward Rutledge amidst the ongoing Revolutionary War. Despite the British offer of autonomy within the Empire, Franklin and his companions firmly reject any resolution that compromises their quest for independence, emphasizing the deep scars and irreversible rifts caused by British aggression.

Key takeaways

  • Franklin's wit sliced through diplomacy like a hot knife through mutton—turns out independence requires more than tête-à-tête and wine.
  • The apple fell far from the tree: William Franklin's loyalty to the crown trumped his family ties.
  • Turns out tea isn't the only thing causing a revolution—Britain brewed trouble with the Intolerable Acts, sparking resistance.
  • British noble intentions were crushed under colonial resolve: Sovereignty proved non-negotiable for Franklin and gang.
  • From London outcast to American firebrand, Franklin’s transformation fueled the rebel cause beyond Father's Day spats.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin), American History Tellers, Boston Harbor, British Empire
  2. – 10:00: Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin), Continental Congress, William Franklin, Bucks County, Pennsylvania
  3. – 15:00: Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin), Continental Congress, John Quincy Adams, Battle of Bunker Hill
  4. – 20:00: Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin), France, Continental Congress, British Empire
  5. – 25:00: Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin), France, Charleston, South Carolina, Continental Congress
  6. – 30:00: Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin), France, John Quincy Adams, William Franklin
  7. – 35:00: Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin), Great Compromise, Kidney stones
  8. – 38:39: Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin), American History Tellers, Airship, Alita Rosanski

Notable quotes from "Benjamin Franklin | The Flame of Liberty | American History Tellers | Podcast"

  • Servant is clearing away the last remnants of your lunch of mutton and ham. Across from you sit Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, and Edward Rutled.
    about Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin) · at
  • From Wondery. I'm Lindsey Graham and this is American History Tellers. Our history, your story.
    about American History Tellers · at
  • Parliament passed a series of laws to punish Massachusetts for the Boston Tea Party. They closed Boston Harbor, placed the colony under martial law, and banned town meetings.…
    about Boston Harbor · at
  • Any he felt to his father. Back in America, colonial delegates planned to convene a Continental Congress in September 1774 with a goal of forming a united response to British…
    about Continental Congress · at
  • Of 1775, Franklin was forced to accept that war was looking increasingly likely. King George III had rejected any talk of negotiations, declaring, The New England governments…
    about George Vlosich III · at
  • In May, colonial delegates were starting to gather for the second Continental Congress. The Pennsylvania Assembly soon elected Franklin to serve as one of their…
    about Pennsylvania Assembly · at
  • American and British soldiers faced each other for the first major battle of the Revolutionary War, the Battle of Bunker Hill. Despite his distance from the fighting, the…
    about Battle of Bunker Hill · at
  • After the failed peace talks on Staten Island, the Continental Congress asked Benjamin Franklin to travel to France to enlist the help of King Louis V 16th.
    about France · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin) — Person · 68 mentions · first at
  • Temple Franklin (William Temple Franklin) — Person · 7 mentions
  • Charles Gravier, comte de Vergennes — Person · 6 mentions
  • Richard Howe, 1st Earl Howe — Person · 6 mentions
  • John Quincy Adams — Person · 5 mentions · first at
    Remnants of your lunch of mutton and ham. Across from you sit Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, and Edward Rutled.
  • William Franklin — Person · 3 mentions · first at
    Connection shall ever make me swerve from the duty of my station. It was a clear message. William Franklin's loyalty was to the crown, and outweighed any he felt to his father.…
  • Edward Rutledge — Person · 3 mentions
  • Sarah "Sally" Franklin Bache — Person · 2 mentions
  • George Vlosich III — Person · 1 mention · first at
  • Martha Washington — Person · 1 mention · first at
    From Martha Washington to Michelle Obama, we'll explore how five of these remarkable women charted new paths, challenged convention, and left an indelible mark on American history.
  • Christian Paraga — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Edited, and produced by me, Lindsey Graham, for Airship. Audio editing by Christian Paraga. Sound design by Molly Bach. Music by Lindsey Graham. This episode is written by Ellie Stanton.
  • Molly Bach — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Edited, and produced by me, Lindsey Graham, for Airship. Audio editing by Christian Paraga. Sound design by Molly Bach. Music by Lindsey Graham. This episode is written by Ellie Stanton.
  • Ellie Stanton — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Christian Paraga. Sound design by Molly Bach. Music by Lindsey Graham. This episode is written by Ellie Stanton.
  • Dorian Marina — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Edited by Dorian Marina. Produced by Alita Rosanski. Coordinating producer is Desi Bllelock. Managing producer Matt Kant. Senior managing producer Ryan Moore. Senior producer Andy Herman.
  • Alita Rosanski — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Edited by Dorian Marina. Produced by Alita Rosanski. Coordinating producer is Desi Bllelock. Managing producer Matt Kant. Senior managing producer Ryan Moore. Senior producer Andy Herman.
  • Desi Bllelock — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Edited by Dorian Marina. Produced by Alita Rosanski. Coordinating producer is Desi Bllelock. Managing producer Matt Kant. Senior managing producer Ryan Moore. Senior producer Andy Herman.
  • Ryan Moore — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Alita Rosanski. Coordinating producer is Desi Bllelock. Managing producer Matt Kant. Senior managing producer Ryan Moore. Senior producer Andy Herman.
  • Andy Herman — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Desi Bllelock. Managing producer Matt Kant. Senior managing producer Ryan Moore. Senior producer Andy Herman.
  • Jenny Lowry Beckman — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Executive producers are Jenny Lowry Beckman and Marshall Louie for Wondering.
  • Marshall Louie — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Executive producers are Jenny Lowry Beckman and Marshall Louie for Wondering.
  • Matt Gant — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

Companies & orgs

  • France — Company · 12 mentions · first at
  • Continental Congress — Company · 10 mentions · first at
  • Kingdom of Great Britain — Company · 10 mentions
  • American History Tellers — Company · 3 mentions · first at
  • British Empire — Company · 2 mentions · first at
    Colonies control over their own legislation and taxes within the framework of the British Empire. I believe this is the best way to guarantee future peace and prosperity.
  • Pennsylvania Assembly — Company · 1 mention · first at
  • New Jersey Assembly — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Jersey, the last royal governor to remain in his position. But he wouldn't remain for long. In June, the New Jersey Assembly ordered William's arrest as an enemy of the liberties of this country.
  • Continental Army — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Were highly disciplined and well-trained. By contrast, the leader of the Continental Army, George Washington, led a ragged group of volunteers. The American rebels were…
  • Pennsylvania Society for Promoting the Abolition of Slavery — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Publicly against slavery until late in his life in 1787, he accepted the presidency of the Pennsylvania Society for Promoting the Abolition of Slavery.
  • Airship — Company · 1 mention · first at
    American History Tellers is hosted, edited, and produced by me, Lindsey Graham, for Airship. Audio editing by Christian Paraga. Sound design by Molly Bach. Music by Lindsey Graham. This episode is written by Ellie Stanton.
  • Parliament of Great Britain — Company · 1 mention
  • Quakers — Company · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

Places & events

  • Cockpit-in-Court — Place · 2 mentions
  • Boston Harbor — Place · 1 mention · first at
  • Bucks County, Pennsylvania — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Over to the cause of revolution. Imagine it's May 1775 and you're in a large fieldstone mansion in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. A mutual friend is hosting you and your father…
  • Saratoga, New York — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Galloped into Paris with the news that 6,000 British soldiers had surrendered after two battles near Saratoga, New York. This American victory was a crucial turning point in…
  • Savannah, Georgia — Place · 1 mention · first at
    American soldiers had faced a series of military setbacks. British forces had captured Savannah, Georgia, and Charleston, South Carolina, and now they were marching on…
  • Charleston, South Carolina — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Military setbacks. British forces had captured Savannah, Georgia, and Charleston, South Carolina, and now they were marching on Virginia. General George Washington wrote to…
  • Palace of Versailles — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Imagine it's February 1781 in the Palace of Versailles. You're the French foreign minister and you're hunched over a large mahogany desk covered in papers. It's late in the afternoon and the fading.
  • Yorktown, Virginia — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Forces had surrendered to General Washington's army and the Americans French allies at Yorktown, Virginia.
  • Concord, Massachusetts — Place · 1 mention
  • Lexington, Massachusetts — Place · 1 mention
  • Passy — Place · 1 mention
  • Pennsylvania State House (Independence Hall) — Place · 1 mention

Full transcript with timestamps

Wonder. Imagine it's September 11th, 1776 on Staten Island, New York, and the war for American independence has been raging for over a year now. You're the commander of British forces in America, and you're at the home of a loyalist colonel where you set up headquarters. A servant is clearing away the last remnants of your lunch of mutton and ham. Across from you sit Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, and Edward Rutled. You've invited these Americans here under a flag of truths. You signal to a servant to refill your guests wine glasses. It's time to address the matter at hand. Gentlemen, I think we can all agree that it would be in everyone's best interest to seek an end to this conflict. I'm prepared to offer the colonies control over their own legislation and taxes within the framework of the British Empire. I believe this is the best way to guarantee future peace and prosperity.

Benjamin Franklin shifts in his chair. Whose future peace and prosperity, my lord? Why everyone's? If America were to fall, it would feel like the loss of a brother. Franklin smiles Riley. We will do our utmost to save you from that discomfort. You ignore this comment, determined to make him see the light. This horrible war should never have begun. It started as a simple dispute over the manner in which Britain collects taxes from America. Correct. I don't disagree. Well, then can we also agree that this senseless bloodshed must end for the sake of both of our countries? Franklin exchanges a glance with his companions and shakes his head, his expression grim. We cannot accept any peace that requires allegiance to the king. Your soldiers have killed our people, burned our towns. Right this moment, your officers are planning further assaults. Any former attachments to the monarchy have been obliterated.

There's truly no way to stop this war. You catch your reflection on a polished silver jug. You notice your cheeks are burning red, and you can hear the desperation in your voice. Franklin arches an eyebrow. Uh perhaps you could request authority from your superiors to negotiate with America as the independent nation we now are. That's simply not possible. His majesty would never agree. Well then, my lord, it looks as if there is nothing left to do but fight this out on the battlefield. Your guests rise from their seats, bow, and walk out of the dining room, leaving you alone with your thoughts. You can't really believe it's come to this. It seems there's no hope for saving the Empire except through force

from Wondery. I'm Lindsey Graham and this is American History Tellers. Our history, your story. In September 1776, at the height of the American Revolution, Benjamin Franklin met with Lord Richard How, commander of British forces in America. How made a lastditch attempt to negotiate a peace, but Franklin and his colleagues would accept nothing less than full recognition of American sovereignty. For the rebels, America's independence would have to be won through war. By the fall of 1776, nearly three years had passed since crown officials hurdled abuse at Franklin in a London amphitheater. Their withering attack helped transform him from a loyal British citizen into a full-blown revolutionary. And as Britain increasingly met colonial unrest with force, Franklin would become one of the leading voices of the independence movement. But the American Revolution would soon pit Franklin against his own

son and lead him to embark on the most important mission of his storyried career. One that could decide the fate of America's fight for freedom. This is the last in our two-part series on Benjamin Franklin, the flame of liberty. In the spring of 1774, Britain launched a crackdown on colonial unrest. Parliament passed a series of laws to punish Massachusetts for the Boston Tea Party. They closed Boston Harbor, placed the colony under martial law, and banned town meetings. In the American colonies, these new laws became known as the Intolerable Acts, and rather than deterring opposition, they sparked a new wave of colonial resistance. Benjamin Franklin was still in London as a colonial representative, and he was outraged by the heavy-handed laws. He published an anonymous letter addressed to British officials declaring, "You may reduce their cities to ashes, but the flame of liberty in North America shall

not be extinguished. Cruelty and oppression and revenge shall only serve as oil to increase the fire." In the months following his public humiliation in a London amphitheater called the cockpit, Franklin had lingered in London and become a political outcast. His wife Deborah and son William urged him to return home to Pennsylvania, but he remained in London, desperately hoping he could do something to prevent this crisis from escalating into war. And as tensions rose, he found himself increasingly at odds with his son, William, the royal governor of New Jersey. Franklin encouraged William to give up his position with the monarchy and returned to farming, what he called an honest and more honorable employment.

But William refused. He wrote to his superiors in London, declaring, "His majesty may be assured that I will emit nothing in my power to keep this province quiet. No attachment or connection shall ever make me swerve from the duty of my station." It was a clear message. William Franklin's loyalty was to the crown, and outweighed any he felt to his father. Back in America, colonial delegates planned to convene a Continental Congress in September 1774 with a goal of forming a united response to British threats to American liberties. Franklin was a strong supporter of this plan, but his son called the scheduled meeting absurd, if not unconstitutional.

William had no tolerance for colonial unrest and wrote to his father insisting that Boston do justice and pay for the tea destroyed in the Boston Tea Party. Franklin replied, arguing that Britain ought to pay America for the thousands of pounds they had extorted from the colonies. And Franklin ended his letter to his son with an insult, declaring, "But you, who are a thorough court here, see everything with government eyes." Still, politics was not the only source of conflict between Franklin and his son. In December, William wrote his father with the news that Deborah had died of a stroke. For years, Franklin had ignored his wife's appeals to come home. They had spent all but two of the last 17 years apart. William chided his father for not returning to Philadelphia sooner, writing, "I think her disappointment in that respect prayed a good deal on her spirits." But despite his wife's death, Franklin insisted on

remaining in England, undertaking a flurry of meetings in the hopes of finding some lastm minute compromise to the colonial conflict. But by the start of 1775, Franklin was forced to accept that war was looking increasingly likely. King George III had rejected any talk of negotiations, declaring, "The New England governments are in a state of rebellion. Blows must decide whether they are to be subject to this country or independent." So, at last, in March 1775, Franklin finally set sail back to Philadelphia. With him was his 15-year-old grandson, Temple, who his son William had fathered out of wedlock.

Before leaving Britain, William had placed him with a British foster family. But now Franklin had decided to take custody of his grandson and bring him back to America. And while he was at sea, despite all his previous efforts, the war Franklin had long feared began. On April 19th, 1775, American militia men and British soldiers exchanged fire in the towns of Lexington and Concord in rural Massachusetts. And by the time Franklin's ship landed in Philadelphia in May, colonial delegates were starting to gather for the second Continental Congress. The Pennsylvania Assembly soon elected Franklin to serve as one of their representatives. But in the meantime, William Franklin traveled down from New Jersey to meet his son, Temple, for the first time. Benjamin Franklin had not seen his son William in nearly a decade, and he was determined to use this meeting to finally bring his son over to the cause of revolution. Imagine

it's May 1775 and you're in a large fieldstone mansion in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. A mutual friend is hosting you and your father, Benjamin Franklin, in his lavish sitting room. You're the royal governor of New Jersey, and you haven't seen your father in several years. You've been tiptoeing around politics all evening, but the tension is growing with each passing minute. It's growing late, and the wine has been flowing freely. Your host serves you another glass of madiraa. Your father sits across from you. Flickering candle light dances across his face, set in a look you recognize. A storm is brewing behind his composed facade. And finally, he says what's on his mind.

You still believe I should advocate a reconciliation with Britain. You take a sip of wine, stalling for a moment as you search for the right words.

Yeah. Yes, father. I believe that would be the most pragmatic approach. Pragmatic? Tell me, son. Have you forgotten my time in London? My countless feutal attempts to negotiate a reconciliation. My pleas for compromise met with nothing but contempt. You stare into the fireplace, feeling your patience dwindle. You've already written to me about this. You cannot imagine the torrent of abuse that was hurled at me. But I know better than many that a man must have thick skin. If anything, these attacks have only hardened my resolve.

Well, no one is questioning your resolve. Perhaps it's best for both of us to remain neutral. Your father shakes his head, eyes blazing. Neutral? How can you even suggest such a thing? The monarchy is corrupt to its core, and it's clear now that the only way forward is independence. We cannot afford to sit idly by while our freedoms are trampled upon. I've said it before, it's well past time you step down as governor. You must. As long as you remain an official of the crown, you are an enemy of the patriot cause. You truly believe that's the answer. You would have me give up everything and join your reckless crusade. I would have you stand up for what's right for the sake of our country. You speak of freedom and country. Yet all I see is envy. You're jealous of me. My position. Jealous of what? Of watching you bow and scrape to the king. Believe me, I have no wish to serve a monarchy hellbent on destroying

us. Mark my words, father. If you continue down this path, the colonies are going to go up in flames. You will burn with them. You nearly knock your chair over as you charge out of the room. You step into a dark corridor, your father's words still ringing in your ears, but you refuse to let him browbe you. Nothing will change your loyalty to the crown. In May 1775, Franklin's reunion with his son ended in a bitter argument. William believed a reconciliation with Britain was still possible, but his father saw American independence as the only way forward.

William stormed off in anger, and the pair soon stopped speaking to one another. The revolution had caused an irreconcilable rift. But Franklin was kept occupied by his duties in the Continental Congress convening that summer. At 69 years old, Franklin was by far the oldest delegate. John Adams was 39, while Thomas Jefferson was just 32. Many of the delegates who only knew Franklin by reputation were surprised by his unassuming manner. He often preferred to sit quietly and listen rather than speak. Adams complained that Franklin seemed to spend a great part of the time fast asleep in his chair. But while Franklin and the other members of the Continental Congress were convening in Philadelphia, the British were laying siege to the city of Boston. On June 17th 1775 American and British soldiers faced each other for the first major battle of the Revolutionary War, the Battle of Bunker Hill. Despite his distance from the

fighting, the battle was personal for Franklin. His sister was forced to evacuate the city in a panic, and Franklin was furious over what the British had done. He wrote a letter to his oldest friend in England, intending for it to be circulated publicly. He declared, "You have begun to burn our towns and murder our people. Look upon your hands. They are stained with the blood of your relations. You and I were long friends. You are now my enemy, and I am yours." With this, Franklin's transformation into a revolutionary was complete. Any lingering doubts about his commitment to the cause disappeared.

John Adams declared, "Dr. Franklin has discovered a disposition entirely American. He is a great and good man. So quickly, Franklin became one of the most devoted patriots in the Continental Congress. The delegates assigned him to serve on several committees, and he was elected postmaster general. He was also tasked with creating a system for paper currency, raising money for weapons, and negotiating with Native Americans on behalf of the patriots. Then in March 1776, the Continental Congress sent him on a mission to Quebec to try to persuade Canadian leaders to join the revolution. It was a brutal trip over frozen roads, and along the way, the now 70-year-old Franklin was forced to sleep in the woods and on the floors of abandoned houses. The trip was so arduous that Franklin feared he would not survive, writing, "I've undertaken a fatigue that at my time of life may prove too much for me." But despite

enduring these hardships, Franklin failed to persuade the Canadians to join the cause. And when he returned to Philadelphia, he was so exhausted and ill that he could not leave his house for days. While Franklin was regaining his strength, his son William was stubbornly clinging to his post in New Jersey, the last royal governor to remain in his position. But he wouldn't remain for long. In June, the New Jersey Assembly ordered William's arrest as an enemy of the liberties of this country. Patriot soldiers arrested him at the governor's mansion and had him imprisoned in Connecticut. The elder Franklin made no efforts to help his son. Instead, he remained focused on his work in the Continental Congress. In the summer of 1776, the delegates appointed a committee to draft a declaration formally articulating their grievances and announcing their intention to establish an independent nation. Thomas

Jefferson completed the first draft. He sent the document to Franklin for feedback and revisions. Franklin's most important contribution was changing the words, "We hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable to we hold these truths to be self-evident." It was an assertion that the right of revolution was common sense. And then on July 4th, 1776, the Continental Congress unanimously adopted the Declaration of Independence. Together, they broke the bonds of British rule and established a new nation, the United States of America. The significance and danger of such a declaration was not lost on Franklin. At the official signing ceremony, he reportedly declared, "We must indeed all hang together, or most assuredly, we shall all hang separately." Franklin knew that he and the other signers had just taken part in an act of high treason against the mighty British Empire. America's ragtag volunteer army was facing the world's

greatest military power. The odds of victory were slim. And soon Franklin would embark on a perilous mission of his own to secure critical diplomatic and military aid. With the fate of the revolution and the destiny of this new fragile republic resting on his shoulders.

On September 11th, 1776, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, and South Carolina's Edward Rutled rode to the Staten Island shore. The British commander, Admiral Richard How, had asked the Continental Congress to send a delegation to meet with him at his headquarters. How treated Franklin and his companions to dinner and fine wine, and after 3 hours, he got down to business, offering the Americans a truce. But Franklin insisted it was too late. They would accept nothing less than full recognition of American independence. House Secretary recorded the meeting, writing, "They met, they talked, they parted, and now nothing remains but to fight it out." But for the United States to win its independence on the field of battle was an unlikely prospect. British troops were highly disciplined and well-trained. By contrast, the leader of the Continental Army, George Washington, led a ragged group of volunteers. The

American rebels were outmatched in manpower, money, and military experience. They knew they would need help if they're going to have any hope of defeating the British. So 2 weeks after the failed peace talks on Staten Island, the Continental Congress asked Benjamin Franklin to travel to France to enlist the help of King Louis V 16th. Franklin agreed and set sail in late October with two of his grandsons, 16-year-old Temple and 7-year-old Benny, the son of his daughter Sally. Franklin was nearing his 71st birthday, and he complained that the rough winter voyage almost demolished him. An onboard diet of salted beef caused boils and rashes to appear all over his scalp and body.

But in spite of this difficult crossing, Franklin reached France in early December. He hoped to keep a low profile, but news of his arrival quickly spread. He was the world's most famous American, the man who had discovered the secret of lightning, and who had come to France in pursuit of liberty. The French treated him like a celebrity, cheering his carriage as it passed and throwing grand balls in his honor. But Franklin knew he had a daunting task ahead of him. America's struggle for independence would be lost unless he secured money, supplies, and military support from the French. Fortunately for the Americans, France had plenty of reasons to want to undermine Britain, a long-standing military and economic rival. The French were still smarting from the loss of Canada to Britain in the French and Indian War. But that war had depleted the French treasury and Franklin knew that King Louie would be wary of backing

the overthrow of a fellow monarch too. But Franklin was nevertheless determined to win French support for the cause of independence. So in late December, Franklin began meeting with the French foreign minister, the KE vir was sympathetic to the American cause and quickly took a liking to Franklin. He agreed to provide a secret loan of 2 million lever, but insisted that he could not do more until America's military situation improved. In the meantime, Franklin dedicated himself to winning the hearts and minds of the French people. A wealthy merchant invited him to live on his estate in the leafy Paris suburb of Paci on the road to Versailles. There, Franklin made himself at home, installing a lightning rod on the roof and a printing press in the basement, and he hosted a steady stream of visitors. Franklin relished his new life in France and maintained a busy social calendar. He attended salons

and published anonymous editorials in the French press and he struck up friendships and flirtations with glamorous and influential French women. His grandson Temple who served as his aid wrote, "His pleasing gaity makes everyone fall in love with him, especially the ladies who permit him always to kiss them." So it was not long before Franklin became the toast of French society. The French hung his portrait in their homes and reproduced his image on snuff boxes and signate rings. To hide the soores on his scalp from the Atlantic crossing, Franklin had taken to wearing a Martin fur cap he had picked up in Canada instead of a fashionable powdered wig. This fur cap became a sensation. Franklin had long been a master of publicity, and he leaned into his newfound celebrity, playing the part of a modest frontier philosopher. But despite this active social life, Franklin remained focused on his mission, which was becoming

increasingly difficult. In the fall of 1777, British forces captured Philadelphia, the seat of the rebel government. The Continental Congress and Franklin's family were forced to flee, and a British officer commandeered Franklin's home and stole his books, musical instruments, and scientific equipment. Still, Franklin was sure to put a positive spin on America's prospects in any talks with French officials, hoping they would see the American cause as one that could be won. But Verene was unconvinced that France should enter an official alliance with America. He was still waiting for evidence that America's military outlook had improved. And fortunately for Franklin, that evidence was about to arrive. In early December, a messenger galloped into Paris with the news that 6,000 British soldiers had surrendered after two battles near Saratoga, New York. This American victory was a crucial turning point in the war. And it

was the good news Franklin had been waiting for. He reportedly wept with joy before springing into action. He passed the news on to Veren and began writing up exaggerated reports of the victory to be published throughout Paris. Just 2 days later, King Louie agreed to recognize the independence of the United States. The French offered to sign two treaties, one creating a military alliance, the other an agreement of friendship and trade. At the signing ceremony in February 1778, Franklin arrived wearing a frayed blue velvet coat, the same one he'd worn when British lords bered him in the cockpit 4 years earlier. He explained that he wore the coat as a small act of revenge. In France, Franklin had succeeded in his goal. France had officially joined the American Revolution, and it would be French support that would transform the course of the war. As soon they were providing supplies, arms and ammunition,

uniforms, and most importantly, troops and naval support. But even after the French alliance was secured, Franklin remained in Paris, doggedly negotiating for additional aid. And he was more popular than ever. A French statesman proclaimed that Franklin snatched lightning from the sky and the scepter from tyrants. But by the end of 1780, American soldiers had faced a series of military setbacks. British forces had captured Savannah, Georgia, and Charleston, South Carolina, and now they were marching on Virginia. General George Washington wrote to Franklin, "Our present situation makes one of two things essential to us. a piece or the most vigorous aid of our allies, particularly in the Article of Money.

Washington was counting on Franklin to secure more funding because the war for independence was teetering on the brink of failure. Imagine it's February 1781 in the Palace of Versailles. You're the French foreign minister and you're hunched over a large mahogany desk covered in papers. It's late in the afternoon and the fading daylight outside your office window is causing your eyes to strain. You drop your pen, close your eyes, and lean back in your chair. Ah, come in. Your head snaps up, though, as a footman ushers Benjamin Franklin through the door. He greets you with a slight bow. Your excellency, Mr. Franklin, to what do I owe this pleasure? You gesture for Franklin to take a seat. He sinks into the plush velvet chair across from your desk. I have received a new dispatch from General Washington and the situation in America has become grave indeed. Unless the United States receives more aid and soon the new

government will surely collapse. You pinch the bridge of your nose and sign. I'm afraid King Louie is not in the position to offer additional aid. I understand the strain of such a request places on France, but the opportunity to expel the British from America may not come again. We need 25 million Libra to finish the job. You stare at Franklin in disbelief. 25 million? Franklin holds your gaze, his resolve unwavering. I understand it is a large request, but we are in a critical moment in this fight. If it were simply a matter of the king's affection for the United States, he would not hesitate to help. But he has already made an extraordinary outlay of 150 million LRA. Our coffers are empty.

We would have to borrow any additional money. But you must think of the danger at your doorstep. If Britain retains control of America's fertile soil and vast coastline, it will tip the balance of power and allow them to terrorize Europe without fear of impunity. This This is your chance to extinguish that threat before it's too late. You feel a knot of unease in your stomach because Franklin is echoing your own concerns that France's future will be determined on the battlefields of America. I fear you may be right. Franklin rubs his knees and winces. And time is of the essence. I'm growing old and feeble. My gout gets worse with each passing day. I will have to retire soon. We cannot afford to wait. You look into his wearied eyes and sigh. A loan of 25 million Libra is out of the question, but perhaps I can convince the king to offer 6 million Libra as a sign of friendship. Thank you, your excellency.

That will be enough to keep American hopes alive. As you watch Franklin leave, you realize your offer escaped your lips before you even realized what you were saying. You find yourself amazed once again by Franklin's powers of persuasion. You just hope this money is enough to save the Americans from defeat. In early 1781, Franklin managed to secure a gift of 6 million French Libra from Versen. And then in March, he informed Congress that he was ready to resign, complaining of debilitating gout. Congress refused his request, though. Instead, they named him peace commissioner in the event the war came to an end. But in the meantime, the fighting continued to drag on. Then in November 1781, a messenger arrived in Versailles with stunning news. British forces had surrendered to General Washington's army and the Americans French allies at Yorktown, Virginia.

This was the decisive battle of the Revolutionary War, marking the end of major combat operations. Still, Franklin remained cautious. He knew his work was not yet finished. Until a peace treaty was signed, there was still a chance Britain could restart the war. So Franklin would lead peace negotiations with the British alongside John Adams and New York lawyer John J. These talks took more than a year, but a preliminary peace agreement was finally reached in late 1782. Although France was excluded from the negotiations, Franklin managed to smooth things over with Fen and even secured another loan, warning that without additional aid, the new republic would sink into the ground immediately.

So it was on September 3rd, 1783 that the Treaty of Paris was signed and England officially recognized its former colonies as the free and independent United States of America. The Revolutionary War was over. Benjamin Franklin's unwavering persistence in persuading France to lend money and military support had been critical to America's ultimate victory. But now he would have to turn his focus to the challenges of building a new nation.

After negotiating the Treaty of Paris, Benjamin Franklin remained in France traveling and working on his autobiography. In the summer of 1784, William Franklin wrote to his father in the hopes of reconciling. After being arrested by patriot soldiers early in the war, William was freed in a prisoner exchange in 1778. He spent the rest of the war leading a network of loyalist spies and organizing guerilla raids against the patriots. In one notorious incident, he ordered the hanging of a patriot leader in what was supposed to be a peaceful prisoner exchange. So after the British defeat, he, like many of his fellow loyalists, had moved to England. Franklin's reply to his son's letter revealed his lingering feelings of betrayal. He wrote, "Nothing has ever hurt me so much as to find myself deserted in my old age by my only son, and not only deserted, but to find him taking up arms against me in a cause

wherein my good fame, fortune, and life were all at stake." He told William that Congress was keeping him in France for another year, and insisted that William refrain from visiting him there. But by the summer of 1785, Congress had accepted Franklin's resignation as ambassador to France, and Thomas Jefferson had arrived to serve as his replacement. After nearly 9 years, Franklin finally left Paris with his grandsons. In July, they sailed to England, where Franklin visited old friends. William came to see his father, and for a few days, the pair discussed family business matters, but there would be no reconciliation. Franklin persuaded William to turn his properties in America over to Temple, and William was not invited to the farewell party aboard Franklin's ship. The next morning, Franklin set sail, taking Benny and Temple with him. Franklin would never speak to his son William again.

In September 1785, Franklin's ship arrived in Philadelphia. More than six decades had passed since Franklin had first arrived in this city as a teenage runaway, and his arrival now could not be more different. Cannons boomed, bells rang, and cheering crowds escorted him to his Marcus Street home. He reunited with his daughter, Sally, and met the four new grandchildren who were born during his absence. But despite his age, Franklin did not retire from public life. In May 1787, when delegates from the former colonies gathered in Philadelphia to draft a new constitution, the 81-year-old Franklin was there. He was again by far the oldest delegate, twice as old as the average age of his colleagues. Gout and kidney stones made it painful for him to walk, so he was carried into the Pennsylvania State House on a chair every morning. But over the next four months, as debate over the crafting of the Constitution raged in a sweltering

mosquito-infested state house, Franklin may not have spoken much, but he played a key role in fostering a spirit of compromise. In June, the convention deadlocked over the issue of representation in Congress. Delegates from smaller states wanted each state to be equally represented in the legislature. The larger states argued that representation should be directly proportional to each state's population. And in early July, Franklin was appointed to a committee to settle this issue. He knew that if he failed, their bold experiment in democracy could fall apart.

Imagine it's 1787 on a hot and humid July afternoon in Philadelphia. You're a delegate to the Constitutional Convention from North Carolina, but you're taking a break from your duties, taking tea in Benjamin Franklin's backyard garden. As you sip, you feel grateful to have the shade of a large malberry tree, protecting you from the blazing afternoon sun. You look up to see Franklin emerge from the back door carrying a large glass jar. And here it is, the latest addition to my cabinet of curiosities. Franklin takes a seat across from you and sets the jar down beside the teapot.

You lean forward to get a closer look and inside is a small preserved snake with two heads. Well, goodness, what a strange creature, isn't it? was caught just outside Philadelphia. Fascinating. I wonder what would happen if it were slithering along, and one head chose to go one direction, and the other head preferred the opposite path, and neither were willing to give way to the other. You turn your gaze from the snake to Franklin. His eyes are twinkling, and you shake your head. We're not talking about a two-headed snake, are we? No, we are not. The snake faces a conundrum similar to that of our convention. I'd like to discuss this impass over the issue of representation in Congress.

What can we do? The smaller states are adamant, but we larger states cannot abide equal representation. It would render our voices insignificant. Franklin leans forward, the Malberry tree casting dabbled shadows on his weathered face. Yes, well, what if I proposed a compromise? Equal representation in the Senate and proportionate representation in the House. That still hardly seems fair. Why should tiny states like Delaware have equal voting power to the larger states like my own? Both houses should have representation proportional to their populations. Ah, but consider this.

Under this proposal, the House would control spending. Oh, that that that's intriguing. It would certainly tip the scales in our favor. Well, I'm glad you're contemplating it because I fear that unless this compromise is adopted, the convention will splinter and all our efforts will be for nothing. Well, I worry about that, too. I just hate to think of yielding so much ground on such an important issue. Well, you know, when I was a young tradesman here in Philadelphia and had a joint of wood that didn't quite fit, I'd take a little from one side and shave a little from the other till I had a joint that would hold together for centuries. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yes, I understand. Franklin lifts his chin and smiles knowingly. There's little glory, certainly no glamour and compromise, but it's the backbone of a thriving democracy. Can I have your support? You nod and Franklin's smile widens. You

just hope your concession doesn't backfire. Still, deep down, you know Franklin is right. If you want this new country to succeed, this convention cannot fail. During the constitutional convention, Benjamin Franklin frequently hosted other delegates in his shaded garden, which offered them a relaxed and informal environment where they could find common ground. Franklin played the role of mediator throughout the convention and helped push through the Constitution's most important compromise. Each state would have equal representation in the Senate while the House would be aortioned by population but control spending bills. On July 23rd, the convention narrowly adopted what became known as the Great Compromise.

Two months later, the delegates gathered to vote on this constitution. And on September 17th, Franklin made a motion for its adoption. He spoke about the compromises that made the constitution possible and the imperfect nature of democracy, declaring, "I consent to this constitution because I expect no better and because I am not sure that it is not the best." One by one, the delegates signed their names to this new US Constitution. The doors to the state house were thrown open, and a local woman approached Franklin and asked what type of government the convention had created. Franklin replied, "A republic, madam, if you can keep it." But for Franklin, one issue remained that compromise could not solve. Slavery. As a younger man becoming more and more affluent and influential, Franklin acquired slaves of his own who worked for him as household servants despite growing anti-slavery sentiment and

Quaker dominated Pennsylvania. He also profited from slavery by including slave advertisements in his newspapers. And when he did question slavery, Franklin focused on its negative effects on white slave owners rather than the harm done to enslave people themselves. But over time, his views on slavery had evolved, especially in the wake of the American Revolution. Though he had not spoken out publicly against slavery until late in his life in 1787, he accepted the presidency of the Pennsylvania Society for Promoting the Abolition of Slavery.

It was the nation's first anti-slavery organization. So now determined to address the injustice of slavery, in February 1790, Franklin presented a formal petition to the new Congress, asking that the government cut the cancerous slavery out of the American body politic and grant liberty to those unhappy men who alone in this land of freedom are degraded into perpetual bondage. Despite this impassion plea, the House rejected the petition and the Senate tabled it without discussion. This anti-slavery petition was Franklin's final public act. In the spring of 1790, chest pains and fever confined him to bed. And on April 17th, 1790, an abscess in his lung burst. He died later that night at the age of 84.

20,000 mourners turned out for his funeral. Benjamin Franklin rose from humble beginnings to become one of the most accomplished and influential Americans of his time. In his long life, he found practical ways, both large and small, to serve his fellow man. He preached and practiced a vision for a new nation rooted in democracy, hard work, and civic virtue. But above all, his life was guided by an unwavering faith in the ability of ordinary people to build a better society. His words at the constitutional convention, "A republic, if you can keep it," stand as a reminder that democracy is a shared responsibility. and that the nation Franklin helped create rests in the hands of its citizens.

From Wondery, this is episode two of our two-part series, Benjamin Franklin from American History Tellers. On the next episode, since the inception of the United States, America's first ladies have defied expectations and reshaped the role of partner to the president. From Martha Washington to Michelle Obama, we'll explore how five of these remarkable women charted new paths, challenged convention, and left an indelible mark on American history. American History Tellers is hosted, edited, and produced by me, Lindsey Graham, for Airship. Audio editing by Christian Paraga. Sound design by Molly Bach. Music by Lindsey Graham. This episode is written by Ellie Stanton.

Edited by Dorian Marina. Produced by Alita Rosanski. Coordinating producer is Desi Bllelock. Managing producer Matt Kant. Senior managing producer Ryan Moore. Senior producer Andy Herman. Executive producers are Jenny Lowry Beckman and Marshall Louie for Wondering.

Questions about this episode

What is "Benjamin Franklin | The Flame of Liberty | American History Tellers | Podcast" about?

The narrative unfolds during a tense meeting in September 1776, where British commanders attempt to negotiate peace with American leaders Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, and Edward Rutledge amidst the ongoing Revolutionary War. Despite the British offer of autonomy within the Empire, Franklin and his companions firmly reject any resolution that compromises their quest for independence,…

What is mentioned in this American History Tellers episode?

61 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin), France, Continental Congress, Kingdom of Great Britain, Temple Franklin (William Temple Franklin), Charles Gravier, comte de Vergennes. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Benjamin Franklin | The Flame of Liberty | American History Tellers | Podcast"?

The episode runs 39 min; the transcript is about 6,346 words in 50 timestamped sections.

More from American History Tellers

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated December 19, 2025.