Transcript

The Mayflower | The Thanksgiving Myth | American History Tellers

From American History Tellers · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 40 min · 6,021 words · 46 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "The Mayflower | The Thanksgiving Myth | American History Tellers", an episode of American History Tellers published December 4, 2025 (40 min, about 6,021 words). It mentions 57 people, works and ideas, including Wampanoag, Massasoit (also Ousamequin/Usamequin/Usamiquin in transcript), Squanto (Tisquantum), Plymouth, Metacom (King Philip) (spelled as Pameticonom/Pameticonom/Pometiccom/King Phillip in transcript).

What this episode is about

The content explores the arrival of the Pilgrims on the Mayflower from the perspective of the Wampanoag people, highlighting the clash of cultures and the historical inaccuracies surrounding the Thanksgiving narrative. Historian David Silverman discusses how the myth of a harmonious relationship between the colonists and Native Americans overlooks the realities of colonization and its impact on Indigenous communities, particularly the Wampanoag.

Key takeaways

  • Thanksgiving myth obscures Wampanoag survival: Celebrating colonization glosses over their ongoing colonial struggles.
  • Wampanoag-English encounters pre-Mayflower reveal: First contact was déjà vu, with a century's worth of trading history.
  • Wampanoag students face erasure in classrooms: Living history clashes with tales of their extinction.
  • Squanto's saga reads like a thriller: Captured, sold, freed—a tale of resilience amid European greed.
  • Metal for furs was early colonial currency: Stone Age meets steel as Wampanoag trade reshaped their world.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Pilgrims, Plymouth, American History Tellers, Jamestown
  2. – 10:00: John Slaney, Thomas Hunt, Cape Cod, Málaga
  3. – 15:00: Pilgrims, Cape Cod, Massachusett, Massachusetts Bay
  4. – 20:00: Cape Cod, Plymouth
  5. – 25:00: Plymouth, Edward Winslow, gunpowder, Pilgrims
  6. – 30:00: Plymouth, Plymouth Colony, Edward Winslow, Jamestown
  7. – 35:00: Plymouth, Edward Winslow, Harvard College, Josiah Winslow
  8. – 39:40: American History Tellers, Plymouth, Plymouth Colony, Airship

Notable quotes from "The Mayflower | The Thanksgiving Myth | American History Tellers"

  • Religious dissidents as they sailed from England to the Netherlands and then to Plymouth in what would eventually become known as New England. But it wasn't called that by the…
    about Plymouth · at
  • This is true in Jamestown and is true in Plymouth. In our series, we meet Squanto who had encounters with Europeans and the English and spoke English. Can you speak a bit to the Wanog experience with.
    about Jamestown · at
  • Mediator between Plymouth and the Wampenogs, he's taken captive in 1614 by an English captain named Thomas Hunt.
    about Thomas Hunt · at
  • English merchants in Spain, manages to get to London, and then falls into the possession of an Englishman named John Slaney, who was involved in colonization efforts in New…
    about John Slaney · at
  • People. So Squanto after years away finds Captain Thomas Dur who agrees to take him back to the Cape Cod area. And as you mentioned this is just before the pilgrims land. What did Squanto find when he finally got home?
    about Cape Cod · at
  • The most are the Wampenogs of what's now southeastern Massachusetts and the Massachusett people of Massachusetts Bay right around the modern-day city of Boston. The identity of…
    about Massachusett · at
  • Only Squanto himself can influence them to keep it buried. What he's probably referring to is gunpowder. What the English would do is keep gunpowder buried in the event that…
    about gunpowder · at
  • So Squanto is the perhaps unreliable diplomat for the Wampenog, but the English had their own Edward Winslow.
    about Edward Winslow · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

Books & papers

Companies & orgs

  • American History Tellers — Company · 5 mentions · first at
    From Wondery. I'm Lindsey Graham and this is American History Tellers. Our history, your story.
  • Plymouth Colony — Company · 5 mentions · first at
    He's the author of This Land Is Their Land: The Wampenog Indians, Plymouth Colony, and the Troubled History of Thanksgiving. David will take us back to 1620 to imagine what the encounter with the pilgrims might have been like from.
  • Spanish Empire — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Spanish frier had freed him. Indian slavery was officially illegal in the Spanish Empire, but Spanards routinely broke the law. But in any case, Squanto manages to go free and…
  • Harvard College — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Murder of a native interpreter named John Sassimon. John Sasserman was a Wampenog. He'd gone to Harvard College.
  • Airship — Company · 1 mention · first at
    American History Tellers is hosted, edited, and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham for Airship. Sound design by Molly Bach. Music by Thrum.
  • Thrum — Company · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

Places & events

Full transcript with timestamps

from Wondery. I'm Lindsey Graham and this is American History Tellers. Our history, your story. In our series on the Mayflower, we traveled with a group of desperate religious dissidents as they sailed from England to the Netherlands and then to Plymouth in what would eventually become known as New England. But it wasn't called that by the people who lived there at the time, the Wampenogs. They knew the place where the pilgrims settled as Puxit. And much to the surprise of the newly arrived English colonists, they had prior experience with Europeans. In this episode, I speak with David Silverman, a professor of history at George Washington University.

He's the author of This Land Is Their Land: The Wampenog Indians, Plymouth Colony, and the Troubled History of Thanksgiving. David will take us back to 1620 to imagine what the encounter with the pilgrims might have been like from the Wampenog perspective. Our conversation is next.

David Silverman, welcome to American History Tellers. Thank you for having me. So, before we head to the early 17th century, I'd like to ask you a a bigger picture question about why you wanted to write about the Wampenogs and the Pilgrims, what did you think was in their story that hadn't already been told? Back in 2005, I wrote my first book about the Wampenog people of Martha's Vineyard and how they managed to survive colonialism. And in the course of doing that research, I had numerous conversations with modern-day Wampenog people. And what kept coming up in these conversations was how difficult Thanksgiving was for them and particularly for the kids. What they say is the mythical Thanksgiving of native people welcoming the English into their country so that they can form the United States makes light of the Wampaog people's own colonization, their dispossession, right? You know what's

more, they say that in the schools, teachers who are teaching about this mythical first Thanksgiving say repeatedly that the native people who welcomed the pilgrims are now all gone. and Wampenog kids have heard these lessons while they're sitting there in the classroom. And so I wanted to write a book that put Wampenog people at the center of this history and that connected that history to their long-term struggles with colonialism up to this very day. Second reason I wrote this book is that almost every secondary teacher in the country addresses the first Thanksgiving. It's usually the one cameo that native people make in the secondary school and even primary school history curriculum. Yet, most of the teachers who address this subject don't know much about it. And so, I figured if I wrote a book that was accessible to them, I could reach millions and millions of school kids with a much more

accurate history. One of the things that happens often when I've been exploring this early colonial history is we are introduced to characters who know the English through some sort of prior interaction before the colony started. This is true in Jamestown and is true in Plymouth. In our series, we meet Squanto who had encounters with Europeans and the English and spoke English. Can you speak a bit to the Wanog experience with Europeans prior to the pilgrims arriving in 1620, including I guess what happened to Squanto before then?

Sure. You allude to a bigger point, which is that in almost every early colonial founding, what we imagine is a first contact is nothing of the sort. You know, the Wampenogs are in contact with Europeans for a full century before the arrival of the Mayflower. first documented contact between them and Europeans is 1524. Plymouth is founded in 1620. That's a long time. And these encounters are happening regularly, several times a year in some cases. Generally, when the two parties meet, they're interested in trade. The Wampenogs and all coastal native people are deeply interested in acquiring the goods that these Europeans carry. And I, you know, here I think it's important to note native people did not have metal.

They didn't have metal tools. They're effectively a stone age people in that respect. And Wampenogs want metal goods, copper kettles, steel axes, scissors knives weaponry cloth glass beads, and the like. Europeans want furs, fox, martin, beaver pelts above all. They fetch a high price in Europe. fresh food and water. So the two parties are drawn together. Problem for the Wampenogs is that the Europeans also want people and they very often will capture native people. Sometimes because they want to bring them back to Europe to train as interpreters and guides, but at other times they're capturing them with the intent of selling them into slavery back in Europe. So in the case of Squanto, the key interpreter and mediator between Plymouth and the Wampenogs, he's taken captive in 1614 by an English captain named Thomas Hunt.

And this is not the first time this has happened. Um, it had happened multiple times before and indeed in 1611 a Wampenog named Epana is captured by the English, brought to England and 3 years later he manages to connive his way back by promising to lead the English to gold on the island of Martha's Vineyard. There's no gold on the island Martha's Vineyard. In the case of Squanto, how exactly he came into Thomas Hunt's possession, we're not sure. What we suspect is that Hunt had lured him on board or to the shoreline under the pretense of trade and then clasped him in irons. And Squanto was just one of more than 20 native people along the coast who hunt captures during this dragnet. Hunt then sails across the Atlantic and sells his human catch to Malaga, Spain. Squanto alone among these two dozen plus Wampenogs goes free. We don't exactly know how. Uh we suspect a Spanish frier had freed him. Indian

slavery was officially illegal in the Spanish Empire, but Spanards routinely broke the law. But in any case, Squanto manages to go free and somehow, we don't know how, he falls into contact with English merchants in Spain, manages to get to London, and then falls into the possession of an Englishman named John Slaney, who was involved in colonization efforts in New Finland. Over the next several years, Squanto is thoroughly involved in Slaney's enterprises. Twice, Squanto travels to New Finland and back. He might have even gone to Virginia during this period of time during the early English colonization of that place. And ultimately Squanto manages to convince a captain named Thomas Durmer who is a close associate of slain to bring him back to New England as a means of promoting English colonization schemes in the area. And so Squanto ends up back in Wampaog territory in 1619, just 6 months before the arrival in the

Mayflower after years abroad. I'm curious what you think native cultures learned about the English on their travels. They were pressed into service by the English to learn about native culture. What did the native cultures learn about European culture? Well, they learn that these people are incredibly numerous, that they are organized on a scale that utterly eclipses the social organization of Native America. When the Wampenogs met as a polity or tribe, the largest Native American polities were at most 30,000 people. Native people who return home routinely comment on the vast inequalities that they witnessed in European society. And you know, let's keep in mind you most of these native people are traveling in pretty elite social circles. Squanto is living with John Slaney while he's in London and he's operating in some of the highest ranks of English society. So he sees the wealth and the grandeur of the English

elite. He also can see the masses of teeming poor outside the gates of the places where he's staying and undoubtedly made an impression on him just as it made an impression on most native people who traveled to Europe during this period of time. They comment that such inequality would be totally inexcusable in their own society and they don't understand how the poor of these societies don't set fire to to the elites homes and slit their throats. They simply cannot grasp it. What they also grasp and you know I told you this anecdote about the Wampenog captive Epana who manages to make it home in advance of Squanto doing the same thing.

Epana has figured out that a lust for gold makes these people mad with ambition. So they've learned some really important things about these people. But they've also learned one other thing which makes native people covetous. These folks have incredible military technology which if native people can harness themselves will make them powerful in their own intertribal affairs. And so that's a real appeal of contact with these otherwise ruthless people. So Squanto after years away finds Captain Thomas Dur who agrees to take him back to the Cape Cod area. And as you mentioned this is just before the pilgrims land. What did Squanto find when he finally got home?

Squanto undoubtedly was anticipating a warm homecoming, a reunion with family and friends, and instead he wanders into an apocalypse. There's really no better way to express it. Between 1616 and 1619, an unidentified European epidemic disease starts knifing its way through native people in southern New England from the Sacko River of Maine on the north to the east side of Naraganset Bay in modern-day Rhode Island in the south. And the two groups of people who suffer the most are the Wampenogs of what's now southeastern Massachusetts and the Massachusett people of Massachusetts Bay right around the modern-day city of Boston. The identity of the disease, we don't know. I strongly suspect it was smallox. What we do know is that this disease evviscerated numerous communities. And when I say eviscerated, I mean completely wiped them out. and any survivors scattered to neighboring communities and probably

communicated the disease in the course of doing so. The entire Taton River Valley, which was the main artery of the Wampenog people, it stretches from just west of modern-day Plymouth into Narrogans at Bay where Providence, Rhode Island is located today. By all accounts, it had once been full of native villages. And you know, later English colonists can tell because the woods are all cleared for cornfields. It was empty of people. And among the communities that's wiped out is Squanto's home community of Puxit. Now, I'm not suggesting everyone from Puxit was dead. We know from the records of the Mayflower passengers that Squanto actually managed to find some of his relatives in nearby communities. But some of his relatives, is not all of his relatives. Unquestionably, most of his family and friends and acquaintances were now dead. So, Esquanto is approaching the shoreline for his homecoming. We have to assume he's full

of hope and anxiety. Hope because he's been away for years, right? I he desperately wants to reconnect with loved ones. Anxiety because he probably would have heard that a terrible disease had struck the coast. Englishmen had already commented on that point. So when he finally lands at Puxit, what does he see? Well, according to English eyewitness accounts, and we have multiple of them, the place was like an inverted graveyard. The bones, the skeletons, the skulls of the dead were littered all over the landscape. And that tells you something profound. That tells you that the people fled in a panic because native people treated the remains of their dead with great respect. They would never just leave them standing there. You know, in other words, Squanto knows that just a tragedy of epic proportions has struck his people. And now he's desperate to find if there are any survivors, to hear about what had happened and

where his place in the world is going to be. So, Squanto manages to return to Ptoxic just before the pilgrims landed in 1620. Talk about how the Wampenogs approached the pilgrims initially after their landing. Well, the Wampenogs [sighs] are conflicted about what to do with these Mayflower passengers. When the Mayflower first lands off of Cape Cod, one of the things that strikes the English is they can't find any native people. Now, part of that has to do with the fact that in that part of Cape Cod, uh, wampenogs would live out there during the warm months of summer during planting season, but would withdraw inland to the forest during the cold weather for hunting season. But that's not the only factor here. They're wary of these newcomers. They don't know quite yet what to do with them, and so they're biting their time. There are a few fertive encounters during the first couple of weeks that the English are on

the scene. The English go exploring. They find a Wampenog summer camp and they ransack the place indeed. They disinter a burial, a couple of burials in fact, which is a really lousy way to introduce yourself to foreigners by desecrating their graves. They steal some buried seed corn that will become the basis for the first harvest that the English enjoy. But they can't find any people. The English send out some exploring parties to probe the territory. and they do encounter a couple of Wampenog men walking on the beach with their dogs um and try to hail them down and the Wampenogs take off.

They're almost certainly afraid that these Englishmen are going to clasp them in chains and ferry them away somewhere. Later on, the English are camped on a beach, the exploring party that is, and they come under attack by a small band of Wampenog warriors. The hostility and trepidation that the English meet from the few wampaogs that they encounter on Cape Cod is one of the reasons that they decide to find a new place to settle. Um they choose Plymouth ultimately because the native people have been wiped out there and the land is already cleared for planting. And here it's important to set the intertribal context in the runup to the pilgrim's arrival. The Wampenogs might have suffered enormously from the epidemic of 1616 to 1619, but their Narroancet rivals to the west did not contract the disease. And so in the wake of the Wampaog's devastation, the Narroancets begin conquering the Wampenogs and

subjugating them to the status of tributaries. In other words, you know, requiring them to pay an annual tribute to Narogansit leaders and contribute warriors to the Narroansit's own military campaigns. So, when the Mayflower passengers arrive off of Cape Cod, the Wampnogs are facing a couple of choices. You know, on the one hand, they know that these English people have a long history of kidnapping and killing Wampenog people, and as such, many Wampenog people are in favor of wiping out these newcomers. They say this is not a danger worth risking. On the other hand, Wampenog people have seen the potency of English weaponry and English soldiers. Squanto has been to England and back and can say, "Look, this is a formidable people. If we can win them to our side, that would be to our advantage." And ultimately, the debate is, should we try to ally with these people against the Narroansits

or should we push them back into the sea and accept subjugation to the Narroansits? Ultimately, allying with these people wins out. That's a position that the Wampenog's leader Usamiquin or Masasoyad as he's better known makes. But it is not a decision that all Wampenogs agree with. I'm interested in the politics of the Wampenogs. You mentioned that some people didn't agree with the ultimate decision to ally with the English, but talk to us about how these decisions are made. And I guess this gets into an introduction to the Sichchum Massaso. Well, we don't have any eyewitnesses on the scene, but we know enough about how native polities in general worked and how the Wampenog polity sometimes worked to make some educated guesses. So, Masasoyad or Usamiquin should be considered first among equals among other Wampenog leaders. Every village community or sichchum ship had a chief or a sichchum.

When a series of local satum ships banded together in confederacy, usually to meet a foreign emergency, they would defer to the leader of what we might call a paramount sichchum or a great chief. That's Usumiquin or Masasoyad. When Usami or Masasoyet is making a decision about what to do with the English, what he would do is call the satums from other communities together in council and the people would talk about it. They would consult their shamans known as pawas. That's where the word pow-wow comes from and try to divine the best way forward. Decisions weren't made by majority vote. The goal was always to achieve consensus. So as a result, there's constant fissures. So when Usumi or Masoyet manages to achieve a rough consensus about what to do with the English, he is always aware that there are dissident within the ranks who might try to break away. And indeed over the next several years, there are

constant minor rebellions within the Wampaogums who want to side with the Narogansits and wipe out this young English colony. So one of the advantages that both English and Masso had in these early relations is Squanto as translator. But was he a good translator? There was suspicion growing. Was he a good diplomat for his people? My sense is that Squanto's English is very good. The question was always whether he was faithfully translating between the two peoples or whether he was tailoring the message to his own political lens.

Usamiko Namasoya suspects very quickly that what Squanto is trying to do is set himself up as a great sichum and a rival to Massasoyets. We just don't know. What we do know, because eventually there's more than just Squanto who can speak both languages, is that Squanto has been spreading some whoppers of lies to try to terrify the Wampaog people and claiming that only he can handle the emergency. So in particular, what he says is playing on Wampenog fears of the previous epidemic that the English have a disease buried in a box in their storehouse and that they can release this disease whenever they want and that only Squanto himself can influence them to keep it buried. What he's probably referring to is gunpowder. What the English would do is keep gunpowder buried in the event that there was a fire and they don't want it to ignite. At other points, Squanto spreads false rumors among the English

that Masoyat had been taken captive by the Naragansits. And he's constantly trying to stoke crisis so that he himself can bring them to a resolution, thus raising his reputation among both the Wampenogs and the English. Eventually, Usumi amass Soyed is calling for Squanto's head. demands the English to either execute him themselves or to hand him over so that Masoya can execute him. Before this emergency comes to a head, Squanto dies of a disease, though the possibility exists that Masoy had him poisoned.

So Squanto is the perhaps unreliable diplomat for the Wampenog, but the English had their own Edward Winslow. They chose him as a representative to deal with and visit the Wampenogs. What skills did he bring to the job? Winslow was a printer back in England and had read a number of narratives by Englishmen and other Europeans about their adventures in America. So he had a knowledge base to prepare him for this kind of sensitive intercultural diplomacy. Other than that, it's just personal characteristics. He's a brave man.

There's no other way to put it. He visits Wampenog communities. These are places that are utterly foreign to him and that within his worldview are permeated by devil worship which he deeply deeply fears. He views wampaog pow-wows as minions of Satan as witches. He's constantly afraid that these folks are going to stick a knife in his back. And yet he develops a quick rapport with Masasoya. They seem to genuinely like and respect one another. Indeed, Masasoya contracts the same disease that eventually kills Squanto. And while he's seemingly on his deathbed, he sends a messenger to Plymouth for Winslow to visit him. For me, I think the most illustrative moment of Winslow's abilities, his diplomatic abilities comes during that bout of disease that Masoy suffers. So, you know, Winslow shows up in Massasoyet's village and the entire community is in a state of ritual mourning, believing that Massasoy is

about to die. And so, Winslow enters the Wetto or the Wigwam where Massasoyad is ailing and immediately begins doctoring him. He tends to Masasoyet's bowels, empties his chamber pot. He opens up Masasoyet's mouth and scrapes his tongue. He prepares food for Masasoya, a bowl of duck porridge, which Winslow highly recommends against. Masoya insists upon it and ends up throwing it up. Eventually though, Masoy recovers and when he does, he then recruits Winslow to doctor everyone else in the community who's sick. And Winslow does it. This is a nauseating exercise, as Winslow himself puts it. And yet he follows through and in doing this he demonstrates an enormous amount of goodwill. He shows that he's a friend and can even be considered something of a relative. Right? This is how relatives treat one another. So he's an essential man in all this. So let's uh finally turn to I guess what we call the first

Thanksgiving. The myth that's become of this meeting. After that terrible first winter for the pilgrims, there is some sort of harvest feast in the fall of 1621. How did this feast even begin? So, it's common for the public to say, "Oh, you know, the first Thanksgiving involved the pilgrims of Plymouth inviting the Wampenogs to dinner." That is not what happened. What happened was this. The English bring in their harvest and they decide for the first time since they had arrived. They're going to take a couple of days and rest and celebrate the fact that they have survived and that they now have food to eat, that they raised through their own labor rather than through the Wampaogs. And among their recreation is militia practice, target practice. They start firing off guns. Well, the Wampenogs hear the gunfire and the Wampaogs have a military alliance that they've negotiated with the English. The English

obligation is to come to the Wampenogs protection if the Narroansits attack. But the Wampenog's obligation is to come to Plymouth's protection if the Narroits or say the French or the Spanish attack. So that you know they hear the gunfire and then the Wanogs show up in force. 90 of them show up. armed men led by Masoy himself. This is almost twice the number of colonists who were left in Plymouth. So many of them have died. In almost any other colonial setting, that many native people showing up at the edge of a colony where the colonists are armed would have resulted in a blood bath. But that's not what happened here.

enough good will had been cultivated between the two people that nobody misfires and moreover the English and they really have no choice in the matter let's be clear their guest in Wampenog country they say to the Wampenogs why don't you stay and so the Wampaogs contribute to the feast and the two parties suck together for the next couple of days that's the entirety of the event and here I think it's important to note we have mythology ologized this event over the past few hundred years into this seinal moment in Wampenog English relations. None of the parties ever mention it again. It doesn't seem to have been very important to either one of them and the English barely write about it. You mentioned that this was a moment in which any other settlement would have been wiped out by the arrival of an overwhelming armed native force. But can you explain a bit more on why the Wampenogs and the

English were able to avoid bloodshed at least for a while? There's a couple of factors that allow this uneasy peace between the two people to last for decades. First and foremost, as I've been emphasizing, it's the Wanog's own desperation. They see the English as useful in their struggle for independence from the Naransids. And it works. That's really what's critical here. It does work. At least twice, the English send military men to assist Masasoya in fending off Narroans attacks. What's more, Massoya does become the point man in English trade with other native people. Archaeological excavations have been done on the site of Massasoya's home village, and the place is littered with the remains of English goods. Yet another factor is that Plymouth Colony is really small and insignificant for quite a long time. And there's no lucrative crop that's grown in Plymouth County. You know, in Virginia, within a handful of years of

the founding of Jamestown, the English discover the profitability of tobacco, whereupon migrants begin streaming into the colony and they begin overrunning the Powatin Indian people's land, thus prompting war. That doesn't happen in Plymouth. Plymouth is a nothing place. Its population remains low. its territorial boundaries do not expand dramatically in the first couple of decades of Plymouth's existence. And then finally, the men who cultivated this alliance, Masoya and in the case of Plymouth, William Bradford, Edward Winsow ends up going back to England. But you know, William Bradford rules Plymouth Colony for decades. And so there's stability at the top and that matters enormously to keeping the peace because eventually the English do start expanding at Wampenog expects.

You mentioned the stability at the top. Massaso, Edward Winslow, Bradford as keys to keeping the uneasy peace between the Wampenog and the English at Plymouth. But eventually the top changes and in fact it's Masseso's son and Edward Winslow's son that takes over. Tell us what happens to this alliance. Well, what happens to this alliance is the same thing that happens to colonial Native American relations wherever colonists settle in large numbers. Once colonists no longer need native people in order to have a viable economy, when they no longer need military alliance with native people for protection against other native people, they start throwing their weight around. Um, aggressive missionizing. And when the English evangelize native people is not just for the purpose of saving their souls as the English understand it. The English intent and native people perceive this quite clearly is to have

Christian native people switch their allegiance from their satums to the English colonies. So that follow English laws which means that satums like Masasoyet's sons Wamuta his eldest son dies in 1662 and then Pameticonom or King Phillip as the English call him they start losing tribute payers to these evangelical campaigns. You know what's more the English start engaging in really underhanded expansion. They take land that was previously shared as is the Native American understanding. Right? When native people sell land, almost always they say, you know, okay, we'll we'll continue to hunt and plant here and you can use it, too. That's not the English understanding of these transactions. They will deliberately get native people drunk and get them to sign land deeds. So, you know, transfers of land that native people later say, "I have no memory of signing this document." Native people say,

"Therefore, it shouldn't stand." Well, the English say, "Well, you know, you shouldn't have got drunk." And that's the way it goes. English livestock wander the landscape. These animals trespass on native corn fields and native clam banks and drive native people out of the area, which is the exact intent. When native people kill these animals, the English bring suits. They say, "You've killed my private property." And Jewish native people say, "We'll keep your private property on your private property." And these disputes go on and on. Eventually, we get to the point where the English are trying to arrest native people for crimes between native people in native territory. And the ultimate flash point is a case of murder. You know, native people will tolerate all kinds of encroachment by colonists up to the point of colonists trying to capitalally execute people for murder. No native group is going to stand for that. Um,

and that's ultimately what happens in 1675. In the run-up to that moment, Usami Quinn's eldest son, Pomemetic, or King Phillip, had been trying to put together a multi-tribal anti-colonial coalition. He negotiates with the Narroans and native people, Hither and Yan. And what he says to them is, "Look, we all face a common enemy here. And if we don't band together, they're going to continue playing a game of divide and conquer until we're all conquered, which is precisely what happens."

And this is what leads to in 1675 full-fledged war. What's known as King Phillips War. What was this war like? The main impetus to this war is that the English seize, try and execute three highranking Wampenogs for the supposed murder of a native interpreter named John Sassimon. John Sasserman was a Wampenog. He'd gone to Harvard College. He used to translate land deeds for Pameticcom. He would serve as an interpreter in diplomatic settings for him. In the winter of 1674-75, John Sassman goes to Plymouth and warns Josiah Winslow, son of Edward Winslow, the governor, that Pometiccom's getting ready for war. Winslow brushes off Sassimon and Sassimon says to him, "You're probably never going to see me alive again." Turns out to be true.

Sasson disappears. Later, they find his body under the ice of frozen Asawwamps at pond west of Plymouth. and a couple of Christian Indians come forward and say, "We saw three of Hmedom's men kill this guy and stuff him under the ice." So, the English try the accused and execute them. At that point, there's no restraining the Wampenog's young men anymore. Warriors start attacking neighboring towns and the war spirals outward. And when native people would attack English towns, usually what they would do is station small numbers of warriors in hidden spots around the community during the evening. And then as the sun was going up and English farmers began emerging from their homes, they would attack suddenly and try to kill or capture as many of the colonists as they could before those colonists fled to these fortified blockouses where everybody would defend themselves. Once colonists made it to those fortified

blockouses, native people would put everything else to the torch or the knife. When the English attack the natives is an entirely different kind of scenario. They're not attacking from ambush. They have armies that are on the march and what they're doing is attacking native civilian towns camps and everyone is the target. So, you know, effectively on both sides what they're doing is they're waging wars of terror. These are not wars just between male combatants. They're total wars that involve everybody and they're wars of attrition. Another aspect of the way the English wage this war is often forgotten in our accounts of it. The English are enslaving their native enemies. They keep some of them to work in New England, but a disproportionate number of them they sell to the Caribbean and other places abroad. And this is not a purely colonial Indian war. There are almost no purely colonial Indian wars in

colonial America. There's almost always native people who side with the colonists against other native people. Christian Wampenogs on Martha's Vineyard and Cape Cod grudgingly, but nevertheless, they side with the English in this war against their own tribes people. The Moheagans and Peekquats of southeastern Connecticut side with the English. The Eastern Niantics try to remain neutral but then ultimately side with the English in this war. And then finally, in what might be the most decisive development in this war, the Mohawk people of what's now upstate New York, just outside of Albany, side with the English in this war. And that combination of native allies, allows the English to endure terrible losses during the first 6 months of this war and ultimately defeat the natives in resistance. There's an exceptionally symbolic moment at the end of King Phillip's war. The English managed to

track down Pameticonom and the last Wampenhog holdouts in this war. A Christian Indian allied with the English shoots Pameticcom dead. Then the English desecrate his body. They decapitate him. They sever his four limbs. They send the head back to Plymouth to be piked outside the walls of the community to rot for the next 20 years. And then Plymouth Colony and Massachusetts Colony hold a day of thanksgiving to celebrate God's blessing that allowed them to achieve a victory over their savage enemies. So finally, as we think about Thanksgiving, uh George Washington had a proclamation in 1789 for a Thanksgiving.

Abraham Lincoln made it a national holiday. and the mythology surrounding the first Thanksgiving is with us all. But what should we really take away from this first Thanksgiving and the intent behind our myth? What's something worth considering? I'm often asked the question of what we do with Thanksgiving in light of this history. And let me be clear about a couple of points in our overheated political environment. I'm not declaring war on Thanksgiving. I am not calling for a cancellation of Thanksgiving. Nor for that matter am I calling for us to replace Thanksgiving with a day of mourning which is a ritual that Wampaog people have been holding some Wampaog people since 1970 to call attention to the disjunction between their own historical experience and the whitewashed Thanksgiving. Here's what I am saying. The Thanksgiving myth is not true. It's a sanitized, whitewashed history that's designed quite frankly to

make white people feel better about colonization. The history of Plymouth and the Wampenogs, the history between native people and colonists is incredibly violent. It is incredibly exploitative and it resulted in native people losing almost everything. Native people are our countrymen and country women these days. And if their history is going to be invoked during a national holiday, they have the right to see that history portrayed accurately.

David Silverman, thank you so much for speaking with me today on American History Tellers. I appreciate you having me. Thanks.

That was my conversation with David Silverman, professor of history at George Washington University and author of This Land Is Their Land: The Wampenog Indians, Plymouth Colony, and the Troubled History of Thanksgiving. You may also want to check out another of his books, Thundersticks, Firearms, and the Violent Transformation of Native America. In the next season of American History Tellers, we'll explore the story of Frederick Tudtor, the so-called ice king of Boston, who pioneered the business of exporting ice from New England to the hottest corners of the globe. But keeping his customers cool was one thing. Managing to stay afloat in the ice business was another thing entirely.

from Wondery. This is the fifth and final episode of our series on the Mayflower for American History Tellers. American History Tellers is hosted, edited, and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham for Airship. Sound design by Molly Bach. Music by Thrum. This episode was produced by Paulie Striker. Managing producer Desi Bllelock. Senior producers are Alito Rosanski and Andy Beckerman. Executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman and Marshall Louie for Wondery.

Questions about this episode

What is "The Mayflower | The Thanksgiving Myth | American History Tellers" about?

The content explores the arrival of the Pilgrims on the Mayflower from the perspective of the Wampanoag people, highlighting the clash of cultures and the historical inaccuracies surrounding the Thanksgiving narrative. Historian David Silverman discusses how the myth of a harmonious relationship between the colonists and Native Americans overlooks the realities of colonization and its impact on…

What is mentioned in this American History Tellers episode?

57 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Wampanoag, Massasoit (also Ousamequin/Usamequin/Usamiquin in transcript), Squanto (Tisquantum), Plymouth, Metacom (King Philip) (spelled as Pameticonom/Pameticonom/Pometiccom/King Phillip in transcript), Narragansett. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The Mayflower | The Thanksgiving Myth | American History Tellers"?

The episode runs 40 min; the transcript is about 6,021 words in 46 timestamped sections.

More from American History Tellers

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated December 19, 2025.