My Sit Down with Nancy Grace: Kohberger Posed Victims Bodies? Monique Tepe Shot MULTIPLE Times?!

What this episode is about

In this discussion, true crime expert Nancy Grace delves into the chilling details of recent high-profile murder cases, focusing on the Idaho 4 and the Teepe murders, where victims were found posed and subjected to extreme violence. Grace brings to light previously unknown insights and revelations from notorious cases, such as those of Scott Peterson and Casey Anthony, enhancing the understanding of the complexities involved in these tragic stories.

Key takeaways

• True crime thrives on details; 150 stab wounds ignite horror but keep us tuning in for answers.
• Nancy Grace: a force of nature in crime commentary, navigating legal nuance while unearthing dark secrets.
• Censoring 'graphic' terms dilutes victims' narratives; true crime needs an unfiltered lens to honor their stories.
• Patreon perks reveal untold bombshells; serious true crime fans can finally get the uncensored scoop.
• In our obsession with true crime, remember: each case is a heartbreaking story, not just a chilling statistic.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Annie Elise (Host) · 24 min speaking
• Nancy Grace (Guest) · 37 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Kaylee Jade Gonzalez, Heather Neighbor Grace, Madison Mogan, Ethan Chapin
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Brian Coberger, Madison Mogan
3. 20:00 – 30:00: Michael McKe, Momentous, Annie Eliss, Heather Neighbor Grace
4. 30:00 – 40:00: Michael McKe, Scott D. Anthony, Willy's THC infused social tonic
5. 40:00 – 50:00: Scott D. Anthony
6. 50:00 – 1:00:00: Scott Peterson, BetterHelp, Scott D. Anthony

Notable quotes from "My Sit Down with Nancy Grace: Kohberger Posed Victims Bodies? Monique Tepe Shot MULTIPLE Times?!"

• Hey true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serlessly.

  about Annie Eliss · at 0:02

• They were killed. I mean horrific things. And through our discussion, Nancy shared with me a lot of information that I have never heard of regarding all of these cases and a…

  about Heather Neighbor Grace · at 2:07

• Actually want to start with the news in Idaho and Brian Cobberger because as we all know, Brian Cobberger pleaded guilty back in July of 2025 to the brutal slaying of the four…

  about Idaho 4 · at 5:16

• Mattie Mogan 28 times, 13 of which were to her face, scalp, and neck. Xan Kernodal 67 times, 23 of which were to her face, scalp, and neck. And Ethan Chapen 17 times, four of which were to.

  about Madison Mogan · at 6:07

• Into the mind of literally an evil killer. A lot of people don't use the word evil or the devil or Satan. But I think that all of that is personified in Brian Cobberger.

  about Brian Coberger · at 7:06

• Released regarding the arrest and things regard in this case, it showed that Michael McKe was actually at the house on December 6th, which was 24 days before the murders…

  about Teepe murders · at 27:24

• I would say Dr. McKe is the first one I've seen that nursed his hatred for nearly a decade. And during that time he threatened to kill her. We are now learning that he raped her during the.

  about Michael McKe · at 35:37

• The majority of people feel that justice was not served in that case. I personally still remember exactly where I was when that verdict was read and just the visceral reaction I had of just.

  about Scott D. Anthony · at 40:24

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Heather Neighbor Grace — Person · Main guest · 3 mentions · first at 1:15
  Interview subject providing prosecutorial perspective and commentary on multiple high-profile cases (Idaho 4, Teepe murders, Casey Anthony, Scott Peterson).
• Annie Eliss — Person · Host / interviewer · 2 mentions · first at 0:33
  Hosts the episode, frames the cases, asks Nancy Grace targeted questions, and provides sponsor reads and show updates (Patreon, uncensored episodes).
• Brian Coberger — Person · Primary case subject (accused/pleaded guilty defendant) · 2 mentions · first at 5:16
  Central figure in the Idaho 4 discussion; the interview focuses on alleged motive, staging/posing, and prosecutorial strategy around his guilty plea.
• Michael McKe — Person · Primary suspect/defendant in Teepe murders discussion · 4 mentions · first at 26:58
  Discussed as the arrested ex-husband in the Teepe murders; Nancy Grace analyzes alleged pre-offense behavior (curtilage entry) and long-term resentment.
• Scott D. Anthony — Person · Referenced defendant (past notorious case) · 14 mentions · first at 2:26
  Discussed as an example of a controversial verdict; Nancy Grace recounts interviews and argues Casey is responsible for Caylee's death, criticizing later media appearances.
• Kaylee Jade Gonzalez — Person · Victim referenced in Idaho 4 discussion · 3 mentions · first at 2:04
  One of the four victims discussed in detail; the episode cites alleged stab-wound counts and discusses facial targeting and staging/posing.
  It was starting with Kaylee Gonzalez.
• Madison Mogan — Person · Victim referenced in Idaho 4 discussion · 3 mentions · first at 2:04
  One of the four victims; cited in the alleged wound-count breakdown and in the discussion of 'posed' bodies in bed.
• Scott Peterson — Person · Referenced defendant (past notorious case) · 3 mentions · first at 2:24
  Used as a comparison/illustration of callous behavior; Nancy Grace recounts an anecdote about his reaction to learning bodies were found.
  It's heinous. It's evil. And to me, it goes to motivation, which would be one of the first things I argued to. I would argue to the jury if we had that opportunity and were not given a weak.
• Zana Kernodal — Person · Victim referenced in Idaho 4 discussion · 1 mention · first at 6:10
  One of the four victims; discussed in relation to fighting back and sustaining the highest alleged number of stab wounds.
  Mattie Mogan 28 times, 13 of which were to her face, scalp, and neck. Xan Kernodal 67 times, 23 of which were to her face, scalp, and neck. And Ethan Chapen 17 times, four of which were to his face, scalp, and neck. Now, we know.
• Ethan Chapin — Person · Victim referenced in Idaho 4 discussion · 2 mentions · first at 5:27
  One of the four victims; included in the alleged wound-count breakdown and used in the broader discussion of brutality and motive.
  All know, Brian Cobberger pleaded guilty back in July of 2025 to the brutal slaying of the four college students. And we all knew that it was extremely horrifying what he did…

Places & events

• Idaho 4 — Event · Case study · 1 mention · first at 1:50
  A notorious murder case discussed for its brutality and the psychological profile of the perpetrator.
• Teepe murders — Event · Case study · 2 mentions · first at 1:40
  Discussed as a recent and brutal murder case involving a long-standing grudge leading to homicide.

Sponsors

• Momentous — Product · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at 23:35
  Promoted as a high-quality supplement brand with rigorous testing standards.
  Whatever it is you're looking for to help with your wellness journey. And right now, Momentus is offering our listeners up to 35% off your first order. Just use promo code…
• BetterHelp — Product · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at 50:27
  Advertised as an accessible therapy service to help with relationship and life challenges.
  Navigating relationships or life in general, this could be a good place to start. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/ ae. That's b tert.com.
• Willy's THC infused social tonic — Product · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 38:51
  Presented as an alcohol alternative for social relaxation without hangovers.
  Offers the kind of feeling that makes good company even better. So much so that Willies sold out three times in the first 6 months with over 50,000 happy customers. And they just restocked.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:02 Hey true crime besties. Welcome back to an all new episode of Serlessly. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome back to an all new episode of Serially with me, your true crime bestie, your host, Annie Eliss. I hope you all had a fantastic weekend. We are like kickstarting another month. I can't believe we're already going into February. It is wild, but I hope you all had a great weekend. Hopefully, you are staying warm, you are staying safe, and having a good start to your Monday. Whether you're at work watching this in secret, which no shame, I'm with you. Or if you're commuting and you're listening to this, or you're working out, you're cleaning your toilets, whatever it is you're doing, I have a very special treat for you today.

1:07 I wanted to get an expert to weigh in on a lot of what's going on right now in the true crime world. So, I actually had the opportunity to sit down with Nancy Grace. And look, I know I don't need to explain to you who Nancy Grace is. She needs no introduction, but she's a former prosecutor. She has prosecuted some of the most horrific cases out there. She also covers a lot of cases that are being talked about that we've been going over as well. And so, I wanted to pick her brain. And I had so many questions not only on existing cases like the Teepe murders and the David case, but also on notorious cases that she really was such a huge presence in. I we also talk a lot about Idaho 4 because if you don't know the new unsealed document has come out indicating just how truly barbaric those murders were. Over 150 stab wounds in total. Kaye and Maddie being posed after they were killed. I mean horrific

2:09 things. And through our discussion, Nancy shared with me a lot of information that I have never heard of regarding all of these cases and a lot of things from past cases. Little, you know, bombshells that weren't ever in the trial for the Scott Peterson case, the Casey Anthony case. So, we are going to jump right in and I'm going to play my interview with Nancy for you. And let me know in the comment section what you think. We definitely are going to have Nancy back on the show. So, if you have specific questions you want me to ask her, let me know in the comment section.

2:41 Also, feel free to shoot me a DM on Instagram_anie Eliss and we can get start compiling those for you as well. Also, little bit of a spoiler alert and life hack. I had planned this interview with Nancy last week and initially that's when we got it on the books. So, I did have the opportunity to share the news with my Patreon members first. They asked a bunch of questions as well. So, some of those you will hear throughout the episode, too. And that's why it's so good to be a Patreon because you get first, you know, access to all the scoop, all the news, and you get to actually partake in a lot of these episodes. So, you can do that at patreon.com/anie.

3:18 And also, as of February 1st, all episodes, video, audio, you name it. Every single episode that goes on YouTube or goes on the podcast will now be not only uploaded adree on Patreon, but also completely uncensored. If you've been listening to this podcast for a minute, you know that YouTube likes to censor me and not even censor anything that's graphic. It's not even about that. It's literal legal terminology that they don't allow you to say, which is incredibly frustrating. Not only for you guys who I know are so sick to death of hearing the term SA, but just legal terminology that in my opinion, when you start to water that down, it dilutes the severity of what these victims went through and their voice and their experience. And I know so many of you agree. So, we finally decided, look, we're done playing this game. The uncensored version is going to be over on Patreon and um because

4:12 YouTube just doesn't allow me to post them here. And again, I don't want there to be any sort of confusion. That doesn't mean that graphic images are going to be shown over there or, you know, certain grotesque things. It's more about being able to say the legal terms, call it like it is. Maybe there's an F-bomb here and there, but nothing, you know, overly wild. But you can get the uncensored version, not the bleeped out version, obviously that is on YouTube, but the uncensored version on Patreon. So anyway, I'm going to stop talking and let's get into the interview.

4:45 Hello and welcome back to Serlessly. Today I am joined by somebody you all know, former prosecutor, never afraid to tell it like it is, host of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Nancy Grace, welcome to the show.

5:00 Thank you for inviting me. It's a real honor. Well, thank you so much for joining. I actually have so many questions about cases that you have covered in the past in your career that you are currently ongoing investigating and covering. So, I want to just jump right in. And I actually want to start with the news in Idaho and Brian Cobberger because as we all know, Brian Cobberger pleaded guilty back in July of 2025 uh 2025 to the brutal slaying of the four college students. And we all knew that it was extremely horrifying what he did and the manner of deaths and everything that happened. However, a newly unsealed document was released that outlines just how barbaric it truly was. It indicates that Brian Cobberger stabbed these victims over 150 times. And I have a very specific question I want to ask you. But before I get into that, I just want to outline how they broke it down.

5:58 It was starting with Kaylee Gonzalez. She was stabbed 38 times, 24 of which were to her face, scalp, and neck. Mattie Mogan 28 times, 13 of which were to her face, scalp, and neck. Xan Kernodal 67 times, 23 of which were to her face, scalp, and neck. And Ethan Chapen 17 times, four of which were to his face, scalp, and neck. Now, we know that Zana fought back. We heard that early on based on her injuries and just how horrible that crime scene looked. And that also explains why her injuries were nearly double, if not triple, the other victims. But my question for you is why did Brian focus so many of the stabbings on their face, scalp, and neck area?

6:45 Annie, again, thank you for inviting me. That is a question the prosecution does not have to answer at trial. The question why? That goes to motive. The state is never required to prove motive because it asks the prosecutor to go into the mind of literally an evil killer. A lot of people don't use the word evil or the devil or Satan. But I think that all of that is personified in Brian Cobberger. Why did he do what he did? We'll never know. But I can tell you this, Annie. I have seen multiple cases where the victim is attacked specifically in the face.

7:38 Often we see women attacked in the genitals, the breast, the um crotch area, the vaginal area, which indicates a sex motivation, even if the victim isn't sex assaulted. In a lot of killings related to hatred of homosexuals, of gay people, you will see their genitals mutilated, which gives you a very strong indicator of motive. They are driven by hatred of either u misogyny or hatred because of someone because they're gay. But again, the state doesn't have to prove that. This is what my takeaway is. He was destroying the beauty of these victims. Kelli Gonalves was stabbed so many times in the face that her teeth were stabbed out of her mouth.

8:39 Her teeth were around her. And that's what Mr. and Mrs. Gonolvvis Steve and Christy have to think about. I don't know how they think about anything else. And then when you look at Zana's 67 stab wounds because she dared to fight back. And in the midst of this, Annie, you have the roommate hearing Coberger say, "I'm here to help you." And then stabbing the victim multiple times in the face, destroying their beauty, wiping out their identity. It's heinous. It's evil. And to me, it goes to motivation, which would be one of the first things I argued to. I would argue to the jury if we had had that opportunity and were not given a weak prosecutor that didn't have the spine to take the case to trial.

9:41 You bring up an interesting point regarding the hatred and that being a potential motivation and destroying their beauty. And early on, a lot of people, I think, assumed that Kaye was Brian's target and that he went there specifically for her, not only because of the level of injuries, but also because of the blunt force trauma and the facial injuries that caused her facial disfigurement. But now that we have seen the autopsy results and the way that this attack was so brutal on all of the victims, do you think that with the evidence that's been made public, she was the target? Do you think there was a target, a specific target, or he just wanted to go on a rampage? I don't know if rampage, and I've used it myself, would be the right description because a rampage seems to indicate a blind, wild criminal spree.

10:39 This was not blind. This was pre-planned. He had stalked these victims, not necessarily in the traditional sense of the word, but he had driven by their home over and over and over. I believe he stalked them online. I believe that he went into their places of work, maybe even onto their campus to spy on them. As it turns out, when he first moved to Pullman, he went to a pool party. And at that pool party, he took a lot of pictures of women and spoke to them at the pool party. Some of those, at least one of those women were online friends with the victims. I don't know if that's how he first became aware of them, but likely. And the stalking began.

11:31 So, this was not a wild blind rampage. This was very wellthoughtout. um who was the victim. You can't go by the number of wounds alone because you see Zanna was 67 wounds. That doesn't mean she was the original victim. That means most likely that she fought back and sustained more injuries. Who was the original victim? We don't know. But I also know that Kobberger had shown an interest and this is from his digital footprint in sex assaulting women that were passed out were comeosse were asleep or in this case asleep and he came on to something very very different. They were awake and he had to fight tooth and nail to murder them. I don't know what his original plan was, nor do I care. He murdered them. And I don't think one day goes by that some ding-dong online doesn't say, "Why do you insist Coberger is guilty? He was framed." Or he had a codefendant or an accomplice. He plead guilty under oath

12:48 in a court of law. He did it. That infuriates me as well. I think that that group has now dubbed themselves the proberers and they advocate for his innocence. That

13:01 don't care involved. Don't care what they call themselves. I'm with you. I'm with you.

13:06 Sing it to somebody that cares. Now, speaking of him not perhaps expecting what he what he saw when he went into the home and expecting people to be awake and being caught off guard, a forensic scientist from Brian's defense team has said that Kaye and Maddie were posed in bed together after being killed. Specifically, that Kaye was moved from her head being on the pillow to on top of Maddie and then the comforter was pulled over them. I thought it was really interesting that he used the word posed because I think that it could perhaps be that or that Brian was trying to conceal the crime that he had committed so that when people walked into the room perhaps it would be a little bit you know delayed in seeing what had really transpired.

13:54 But what is your opinion in hearing that posed is a term of art in the criminal world. it um staged is a term of art in the criminal world, which means that the scene was tampered with. That's really all that means. Uh but I agree with your analysis that they were posed. Why put one female victim on top of the other? That's posing. That's in the traditional sense. Anytime you tamper with a scene, whether you turn off the lights, whether you put a blanket over the victim's face, which I've seen in many, many murder cases. I had one case that I looked at where a mom was murdered in her home. She was found on her bed completely naked, but the killer had taken a wicker bathroom basket um trash can and put it over her head. What a demeaning way for your body to be found by homicide detectives.

15:05 I've seen many cases where a sweater or a blanket was put over the victim's face or over their body. I worked on a case where a victim was covered in leaves. In the deli double murders of Abby and Libby, for instance, the girls were covered with limbs, tree limbs and twigs and brush. Um, you ever seen a dog circle three or four times before it sits down? Have you ever seen that, Annie?

15:38 Yes, I have. Why? Why? I don't know why, but I know dogs have been doing it since thousands of years before we came to the world. It's instinctive. Did Coberger intend to cover up their faces? Don't know. Don't care. But he did. I think it's something instinctive that, you know, there's a lot of theories. The killer doesn't want the victims looking at them. Um, they don't want to see their faces after, in this case, disfiguring them. They are repulsed by the victims. They are repulsed by the victims as they look in death. It could be any number of things. But what does it mean to me? All I care is about its probitative value.

16:31 What can I prove? I learned in court. There's there's if you could see the stacks of paper on my desk right now. Uh and I'm working on have been working on the Tepee story. just stacks and stacks of facts that I've amassed. All of them are not probitative. They can't prove something in court. For me, if I can't use it to prove something, it doesn't exist. I need every scrap, every sentintella, every shred of evidence to prove something. This proves something. This proves to me that the murder was not random. This wasn't somebody that just broke in to burglarize or rape and went, "Oh," and then killed the victims and ran. No, this killer took time to stage the scene. Whether it was just turning off the lights or moving the body or putting a a blanket over the face, it doesn't matter. That's staging. That means typically not random. If it was a random burglar that lost it and killed the victims, they would run. They

17:42 wouldn't take time to stage the scene. Not random, which is probative. It proves to me it was someone that picked out these victims to kill. It's probative.

17:54 That's an an interesting point you make because based on your experience as a prosecutor and your knowledge of the case, what do you believe Brian Coberger's MO is? There's been the term incel thrown around as well as far as who he was and what could have potentially motivated him. What do you think? Do you think he just wanted he had a thirst to kill and he had been planning this? He wanted to be smarter and prove he was smarter. What do you think it is? I've thought about this a lot, which of course uh none of this is um probitative, but I have thought about a lot because um I think I was about five years into felony prosecutions, nothing but felonies. And at that point, I developed a an expertise. I was dealing with nothing but hardcore typically murder, serial murder, mass murder, um, serial rape, serial child molestation, and any type of arson, which is extremely difficult to prove. And I was

18:54 sitting in court looking over at the defendant. The jury wasn't there, of course, because I wouldn't look at the defendant from the jury. And I was thinking, why did he leave this wake of pain behind him? you know, like a speedboat leaving awake that would touch so many lives. And I can speak to the truth of that. My fiance was murdered shortly before our wedding. I dropped out of school. I was my dream of becoming a Shakespearean literature professor was over. My I my dream of being a wife and a mother and having a family over, destroyed.

19:37 And because of that, over 20 years passed before I could bring myself to have that dream again. And I was an older pregnant mom, highly, highly risky. And my daughter Lucy and I almost died because I gave birth so late in life. my little girl. It affected my life, my decisions, my career as it is, the way I raise my children, the way I see the world, everything.

20:18 So, I was sitting in court looking and thinking, why would you leave that wake of pain and ruin so many lives? And then it hit me like a thunderbolt. Why ask why? You're wasting your time. That said, I will entertain your question as to motive. Think about Cobberger. Who was he before the murders? His sister had described him as a fat slob. We don't use the f word in our home. Fat. Her words, not mine. A heroin addict. Couldn't get a job. Tried repeatedly to get on with police departments. So, like what? Barney Fe couldn't get on.

21:03 He had to prove himself. He had to be the star of something. So he began his studies in criminal procedure and criminology. He studied to the point where he was hired as a teaching assistant. gets into a graduate degree program at WSU, Washington State University in Pullman. And he conducted all of these interviews with pardoned criminals about their motivation and how they got caught and how they targeted their victim and what went through their mind at the time of their murder. and he'd pick felons that had committed violent crimes like rape, like homicide, almost as if he was trying to live vicariously through them. And I believe that the four victims were guinea pigs.

22:03 He wanted to prove he could do it and not get caught. He wanted to feel what they felt, the other criminals, and he wanted to be master of his craft. That's why I think he did it. That's why I think he picked these victims. And a deep, deep misogyny, hatred of women. Yeah. Maybe because he couldn't get a woman. I don't know why he hated women, but he obviously did. So, you mix all that together and you get a devil's brew personified by Brian Cobberger. May he rot in hell. Amen. And he obviously was not smart enough to get away with it. And the evidence that even has been made public to this day has been overwhelming. Which leads me to my last question regarding Kberger. And then I want to jump into the Teepe case which you had mentioned earlier.

23:10 January is always that reset moment for me. New year, fresh energy, and really looking at what actually supports my health. And if you've ever stood in the supplement aisle just feeling completely overwhelmed, you're not alone. Trust me, story of my life. I feel like the supplement industry is honestly this like low trust category. It's slightly regulated. Labels can be misleading and you're kind of just expected to take companies at their word. And that's exactly why I partnered with Momentous. They have built a high trust brand in a low trust space. They've done this by committing to what they call the Momentous standard. Quality testing and transparency that's done in the right way. Every product is independently certified by NSF for sport or informed sport, which means it's rigorously tested for contaminants, band substances, and label accuracy. They only use the highest quality ingredients

24:03 from grass-fed European whey protein to the purest form of creatine monohydrate. no fillers, no artificial sweeteners, and if something doesn't meet their standards, it never hits the shelves, which I feel like that's so incredibly helpful and great, right? It's like you know that you're getting quality, whether it's creatine, Crea Pure, whatever it is you're looking for to help with your wellness journey. And right now, Momentus is offering our listeners up to 35% off your first order. Just use promo code annie. Head to live momentous.com and use promo code annie for up to 35% off your first order. That's live momentous.com promo code annie.

24:52 If you had been the prosecuting attorney on this case, what would you have done differently?

24:59 Number one, I would have had the balls to take it to trial. Let's just start with that. Trial is never easy. It's arduous. It's painful. And this would have been a long trial, too. But that's why you're elected to the district attorney's position. That's why you get paid. You don't get paid to hide in your office and take take cheap pleas. That is not what is expected of you. So effing do it. Get in there and try the case.

25:40 Overwhelming evidence of guilt. There's never a slam dunk. Do I have to say OJ Simpson, but there is so much evidence in this case. I mean, if you're going to have the death penalty, and I'm not preaching pro or anti-death penalty right now, but if you're in a jurisdiction with the death penalty, and you are the elected DA, you're just a house pet sitting in your office, you're afraid to get out there and try the case, get in the ring, get dirty, sweat, bleed, but try the case. I mean, I don't know. I If they reelect him, it's on them.

26:17 Yeah. I know so many people were angered with that and still are angry with that. So, thank you for sharing your opinion on that. I want to move into the Teepe murders. You mentioned you have stacks and stacks of paperwork regarding this case and this is relatively Oh, perfect because I have a lot of questions now for anybody who's listening who's a bit unfamiliar. Back on December 30th, 2025, Spencer and Monnique Teepe were gunned down in their home while their one-year-old and four-year-old children were inside the home. Luckily, left physically unharmed.

26:50 However, weeks went by without any arrests until finally an arrest was made and it was Mon'nique's ex-husband of nearly a decade ago, Michael McKe, 39 years old, which shocked everybody, I think, to be like, it's been 10 years almost since you divorced. How long has he been in the picture? Has he been harboring a grudge? And court documents do allege a history of threats and abuse stemming from Michael toward Mon'nique, not only during their marriage, but after their marriage as well. And the probable cause affidavit that was just released regarding the arrest and things regard in this case, it showed that Michael McKe was actually at the house on December 6th, which was 24 days before the murders happened. Now, luckily Spencer and Mo'Nique were at a football game that night, so nothing happened. However, based on your knowledge and what you have been covering and looking into, do you think

27:48 that Michael was there casing the area, getting familiar, or do you think he was intending to actually kill them 24 days earlier?

28:00 I think he knew their movements. I don't know if he hacked into their email. I don't know if something was mentioned on social media. that they were going to the uh championship playoff in Indianapolis, the Big 10 playoff. I think he knew that they were gone. He was caught on a neighbor's surveillance video entering the curtilage, which is a legal term of art, meaning the area surrounding your home or your doicile. Could be an apartment. It could be camper. It could be a tent. What is curdage? It could be a garage. It could be a portico. It could be a tool shed.

28:38 It could be a um disconnected garage. Oh, it could be a dollhouse. It could be a dog house in the backyard. You typically under the law do not need a separate search warrant to search the curtilage. But this is what I think happened. Looking at the outside of the Tepee home, Monique and Spencer shared with their two children. There was an enclosed back, I'll call it a yard, but it was bricked over. There's a little bit of grass surrounding the brick and it was from what I can see, Annie, was the the fence was attached to the house.

29:24 Here's the house. And there's a little bit of fence on either side which is attached to the house. And that fence goes around the back and completely encloses the back area. From looking at the wedding photos where Manique and Spencer are standing in the backyard. Yes, they were married and murdered in that same home. That fence looks to be at least four to five feet tall. And it's solid. You can't see through it. The affidavit states that surveillance reveals Dr. Michael McKe, the murder defendant, entered the curtilage of the home. That doesn't mean he was seen entering the front door.

30:11 What does that tell me? He was seen getting over the fence into the backyard area, such as it is. On the back of the home, there is a door entrance and either a basement door or window entrance. And he stayed in there for hours, which means to me he got access into the home proper. What did he do in there? I don't know. Go through her underwear drawer. Look at scrapbooks. Look at the wedding album. Go in the children's room. He had on his dating website. He wanted children. And as he sat nashing his teeth and twisting his tail, he watched Manique remarry to the man of her dreams, Mr. Wright. Not Mr. Right now, and have two beautiful children. He probably saw christening photos. No telling what he saw. Now, Manique did not keep uh a social media profile.

31:15 She's probably too scared to, but it leaked out. Family members, friends would post pictures and the wedding video was posted by a relative. How many times do you think he went through that? But I believe the neighbor surveillance video caught him jumping the fence and then disappearing and not coming back out for hours. He was in that home. He got the lay of the home. He probably had already looked up the floor, the floor plan. He probably had already looked at the home on realtor.com or Zillow or something. I imagine he knew the layout before he went in, but he stayed in there hours luxuriating. Probably some older perfume. I I don't know what he did, but he knew where he was going the night of the murders. I think he knew they would be gone and I think he went in to look around the home. Now, this is why I think he knew that they would be gone. That night at the Big 10 Championship, Annie,

32:19 Manique was there with her husband Spencer and a group of friends. The friends go, "Hey, where's Manique?" And Spencer said, words to the effect, "Oh, she went back to the hotel." This was at halftime in a very expensive ticket game. She never came back. She was so upset. And they go, "Well, what's wrong?" And he said, "Something to do with her ex-husband." It's no coincidence that he's skulking around in her home. And she gets upset, something to do with her husband, and leaves the game halftime and goes to her hotel room upset, distraught. I don't know what he did. Did he send a text going, "Hey, you left your bedroom light on." Or, hey, I just checked to see if the coffee was still on. Or, hey, I love the nursery for the babies. There's no telling what he said to her or if he said anything, but something at that exact time got her really upset and she left the festivities, so he knew they were gone.

33:18 Oh bombshell. Everyone thinks that Spencer was shot multiple times and Manique was shot once. That is not true. According to this document we've unearthed, this was a document filed Jan 11, 2026, Franklin County Municipal Court, state v. Michael David McKe. Quote, complainant being duly sworn states the above name defendant Michael McKe. honor about the 30th day of December did purposefully with prior calculation and design cause the death of another Manique Tepee by shooting the victim multiple times with a firearm.

34:07 She was shot multiple times too according to this document. Now let me which means to me he unloaded the gun on both of them. What?

34:16 Oh absolutely. I do I want to ask you this really quick, Nancy. Based on your experience not only covering cases but prosecuting cases, have you ever seen a case in which somebody harbors such a grudge and resentment for a decade long before striking

34:41 in a domestic homicide? I uh investigated and personally prosecuted. The husband murdered the wife, hit her in the head, set the house on fire, millionaire, I might add. Beautiful home. When fire trucks arrived, he was a lounging alla romanesque and the yard across the street. This is like 3:00 a.m. as I recall. He was per completely dressed, khakis, belt, shoes, wallet, glasses, and he talked to them for like three or four minutes and went, "Oh, yeah, my wife's in there." He had hated her for years. But I'd have to say no because I do not believe that defendant had planned the murder for so long and had nursed a grudge for so long.

35:37 I would say Dr. McKe is the first one I've seen that nursed his hatred for nearly a decade. And during that time he threatened to kill her. We are now learning that he raped her during the marriage and choked her during the marriage. Horrible marriage. Horrible.

36:02 Horrible man. What advice would you give to the Franklin County prosecutor as she takes on her first felony murder case? Honestly, let the vets try the case. She has never tried a homicide case. No offense. She's a great lawyer. Um, but this would be her first homicide prosecution. She's third chair. Just let these two guys that have tried many, many homicides, let them do what they do. Be secure and you are the boss of them. If you see something going sideways, which I doubt, you're in charge, but I would not trust this to a firsttime homicide prosecutor.

37:01 You asked me and I'm telling you I didn't lead the honesty a prosecution on my first case. H EL N O. The first case I ever tried was a shoplifting, a felony shoplifting. And guess what? The guy didn't even steal anything. I had to beg and plead to the jury, get him for attempted shoplifting. He did, after all, cut a CD player off the display and stick it down his pants in his crotch. Do you do that when you go shopping? No. He was trying to shoplift. It was a desperate plea. But I did get a conviction on attempted shoplifting.

37:42 Look, I offered the guy probation, but he had such a long wrap sheet. Any conviction would have triggered jail time. So, they're like, "Hey, I'll roll the dice. You're new. You'll probably lose." No, I did not try a h double homicide as my first case. No, you work up to that. She's a great lady. She's smart. She's talented. Please, let these two people that are veteran, seasoned homicide prosecution, let them do their thing. Please, and the rest will fall into place. She's smart. I I She didn't win for nothing. Okay.

38:22 Mhm. So, let them go. Well, I want to switch gears for a quick second and go back in time a little bit to the Casey Anthony. Which is obviously I know. I know.

38:40 All right. Look, are you tired of waking up hung over and worrying about what happened the night before? Because if you're trying to be more intentional this year, yet you still want to relax, you want to have fun socially, let me just tell you about Willy's THC infused social tonic. It's a low calorie, low sugar alcohol alternative that actually works, delivering a fast acting, euphoric social buzz, but without the regrets that come with alcohol. And Willy's Social Tonics come in 5 milligrams and 10 milligram doses with a best-in-class flavor experience. so smooth and balanced that you barely realize that you're drinking a THC product at all. I have seen social tonics all over my feed. Lately, everybody is like moving out of this alcohol era into now alternatives that just, you know, give you that same floaty kind of buzz and makes you feel good with company, but doesn't have the downside that alcohol will bring with

39:34 like the hangover. You can enjoy the tonics as a shot sipped over ice or mixed into your favorite mocktail. One shot of Willies helps you relax, unwind, and de-stress. So, perfect for taking the edge off at the end of a long day or out socializing with friends. Willies offers the kind of feeling that makes good company even better. So much so that Willies sold out three times in the first 6 months with over 50,000 happy customers. And they just restocked. Willies ships directly to your doorstep, too, in over 40 states. So order now at drinkwillies.com and use code seriallessly for 20% off your first order and free shipping on orders over $95. And enjoy life in the high country.

40:21 It's obviously a very notorious case. The majority of people feel that justice was not served in that case. I personally still remember exactly where I was when that verdict was read and just the visceral reaction I had of just disappointment and anger and frustration. And you your coverage during that case was huge, arguably iconic. I'm just going to use that word because it truly was. And so thank you.

40:48 I do have quite a few questions for you about that case. Starting with out of all of the interviews that you conducted while covering that case, what one still stands out to you the most? I guess one of the interviews that stands the mo out the most would be the interview with the judge who sat back and watched it all unfold. Judge Bellevin knows that Tom Casey Anthony is responsible for Kayle's death. And I can only imagine what it felt like to watch that whole train wreck happen in front of you. Another thing that struck me was when I first met Cindy and George Anthony in person.

41:49 And they have been portrayed so badly, so horribly in the press where the media would come and get on their yard. And they had lost their little baby, their precious pearl, Kelly. She was like their daughter to them because Todd mom Casey Anthony did not take care of Kelly. They took care of her. They bought her food, her pull-ups, uh, paid for her clothes. She lived with them and so did freeloader Casey Anthony. She was their world and she's found in a trash bag 10 houses away from their home in a swampy trashy area.

42:39 That's what they were dealing with. and then their own daughter being suspected and tried for it. They were at the worst moment of their life. People dissected everything about them, everything they had ever done wrong or perceived to be wrong. And when I met them, they were delightful, smart, kind, caring people. And to think that George Anthony got dragged through the mud the way Todd mom dragged her own father through the mud. that her mother got up on the stand and committed perjury to try and save Top Mom's life.

43:33 I feel so badly for them. Another another interview that really sticks out in my mind is when I spoke with the bodyguard, so to speak. Remember Tott went to jail first on minor offenses. I don't know. Was it

43:52 check cashing or something like that? Check cashashing, forging the checks and then Yeah. She started lying about her job at Disney World. Yep.

44:00 Yeah. So, she was in jail on a minor offense before she was arrested for murder

44:05 and she made bond and got out. The bonding company had to stay with her so she would not have gone because everybody knew she going to get charged with murder. And of course, many people in that position would try to leave the country. He told me she's been in jail, right? Right. And Kelly hasn't been found. Her body hasn't been found. She's still missing. She comes home from the jail. They walk into the Anthony home. The first thing she says, it's not, "What do you know about Kelly? Where is my daughter? What's being done?"

44:45 The first thing she says, she walks in, she goes, "What's her supper?" I mean, really, I'm not a shrink, but boy would I like to analyze that if I had the knowhow. And another thing that he, the bail bondsman, observed, so many people to this day go, "Oh, George Anthony did it." He did not do it. Number one, but the bodyguard observed George Anthony jump on Tott and push her against the wall and goes, "Where's Kelly? Where is Kelly? What' you do with her?" If he knew where she was, I don't think he would have had that outburst. George is a lot of things, a lot of good things, but he ain't an Oscar nominated actor. Okay. He did that frustration and anger and pain and loss.

45:52 He wanted to find out where she was. And if you look at the jail house inter videos of their conversations, you know, with the glass between them, every time they would approach George and Cindy, both would ask, "Well, you know, what about Kelly?" She would go ballistic and unload a string of curse words at her parents.

46:17 So, I just don't see George pushing her about Keely's whereabouts and her reaction to that. I I that to me indicates George and Cindy truly did not know where Kelly was. And everything they said at trial was BS. Everything Baya said, everything TopMom allowed him to say is all BS.

46:45 Thank you for sharing that. And I feel like that's something that I haven't personally heard before, especially what CA uh Casey had said when she walked back into the house after being released, but a couple of years ago, I know you're aware of this, she came out with her new documentary or docu series on Peacock of, you know, where the truth lies, I think is what it was called, where she really doubles down firm on the stance that her father, George, is responsible for this. And she even makes further allegations, which

47:13 liar. She was trying to Yeah. trying to throw a Hail Mary, but what I found was interesting is in that docue series, she also admits that Xany the Nanny never existed, which I think we all collectively knew. But when you heard that, did you feel vindicated in a way or feel like I'm so happy she finally acknowledged that even though she still is painting George as the villain and the cause? I think we all expected that and knew that, but what was your take when you heard that? woman. You think I get validation or vindication from tot Casey Anthony? I never watched her documentary.

47:58 Oh, good. It would in you. I mean, what she said and about is not worth the salt that goes in her bread to still be blaming George at this juncture. I mean, go away. Go away. I don't want to hear about your Substack. I don't want to hear you lecturing the vice president about whatever

48:24 advocate. I don't want to hear you or see you in your hot pants at a bar luring in another guy. What? I don't care. No, I do not get validation or vindication because top mom Casey Anthony admitted she lied. I already knew she lied.

48:40 Well, let me ask you this then, Nancy. If you were in a room with Casey today, what would you say to her? Would you ever even consider a sit down with her? I was asked to be part of a documentary with top mom Casey Anthony. And when I learned I couldn't ask my own questions and I could not be assured that my appearance would not be altered or edited or my words changed. I didn't want to do it. I did not do it. I also do not want to give a platform to top mom Casey Anthony who I and many believe murdered her little girl. Now, did she intend to commit murder in the traditional sense, such as I take a gun, I hold it up to you and go, "You're going to die now."

49:42 And I pull the trigger. Maybe not. It could have been along the lines of making homemade chloroform, which she looked up on the computer and had Cindy take the fall for it.

49:54 It could have been ODing her on benadryil. It could have been um giving her benadryil and putting putting tape over her mouth and putting her in the car trunk and letting her sleep and she dies from his fixiation. I don't know how Kelly died, but I do believe it was a result of what Top Mom did. Now, how was that murder?

50:27 This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. February can feel like a lot. Everywhere you look, it's flowers, it's couples, it's reminders that everyone else seems to have their entire love life like dialed in and figured out. But the truth is, a lot of us are still figuring it out. Whether you're single, you're dating, or even married, or somewhere in between, everybody's journey looks different. And therapy can really help you sort through what feels heavy verse what you actually want. And it can help you learn how to take some of the pressure off of yourself. It's not about having everything together. It's about giving yourself space to understand what's getting in the way and how to move forward more clearly. Better Help makes therapy more accessible, too, by matching you with a licensed therapist based on your needs, your preferences, and your goals. And if your first match doesn't feel right, that's fine. You can

51:16 switch therapists anytime at no extra cost. So, if you've been feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or just needing support navigating relationships or life in general, this could be a good place to start. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/ ae. That's b tert.com.

51:46 That is murder on several different levels. It could be felony murder, which is a death that occurs during the commission of a felony. You may not mean the death to happen. Like you and I go rob a bank and you say, "Nancy, don't shoot anybody." And I go in, I see a teller and go, "Bam! She's dead." And you're like, "What did I just tell you? Don't kill anybody." Well, you're on the hook for felony murder. You're committing a felony, robbing a bank, and a death occurs whether you had anything to do with it or not. I mean, one of the tellers could drop over, kill over with a heart attack, and that could still be felony murder. Yes.

52:26 It could have been felony murder, child abuse, or neglect by putting her in a trunk or oding her on benadryil and she died. Um, it could have been abandon and malignant heart. What is that? Another form of murder. For instance, you get in your car, let's just pretend it's a a Porsche, and you drive 90 miles an hour through a festival, a street festival, and you mow down four or five people. Do you know them? No. Did you mean to kill them? No. But you had such an abandoned, malignant heart. No sympathy or empathy for the human life. That's murder. So, there are several legal theories under which TopMom could be prosecuted for murder as opposed to intentional murder. I'm going to strangle Kelly dead and doing it.

53:20 Um, I think that was a major flaw. I don't think the jury understood all the levels and all the theories under which she was guilty. But I I don't want to be part of a platform letting her trash other people and giving her one-sided tale of what happened without a thorough and sifting cross-examination.

53:45 I think that's extremely commendable and fantastic. I mean, enough with Casey. We can leave her in the garbage where she belongs. I have I do have another question for you before we get into the wrap-up segment. What are your thoughts on Ellen Greenberg's case now being re-examined? Do you think that her family will ever receive the justice that they're looking for?

54:06 I pray to my holy father in heaven that they do. Since I first found out about Ellen's murder, deemed a suicide on the spot just like that. I knew it was wrong and launched my own investigation which has taken years. I even wrote a book called What Happened to Ellen to explore what happened I think and have been saying for years the only way to get the truth is for the feds to take over. Why? At the time, the local district attorney um for whatever reason, which is a whole line of inquiry, decided not to fully investigate the case.

55:01 Now, the governor is Josh Shapiro. He was connected to the DA's office at the time.

55:09 Then he became the AG, the uncle, attorney general, top cop. And when uh the parents begged and screamed and pleaded and demanded that the case be reopened, he's like, "Whoa, that's my old office. Of course, we didn't do anything wrong. I know those people. They would never." And when you're friends and colleagues with people, you have on blinders. So again, it wasn't investigated. Now he's the governor. Of course, he's not going to claim the AG and the DA are responsible and did a bad job. He is part and parcel of it because of his connection. The only way for a full investigation to take place is for the feds to intervene. And I pray to God that they are true to their word and they do it. I've been screaming that you're preaching to the choir.

55:53 I've been asking for the feds to get involved for years. Do I think she was murdered? Yes. You cannot stab yourself over 20 times in the back, including severing your dura, which is the protective sheath around your spine, all on your own. That did not happen.

56:11 I agree. And there were so many things after the fact, circumstantial, yes, but the fiance's uncle taking her computer the following day. So many different things. Him calling the cousin before 911 that just I don't think anybody that I have actually spoken with believes that this was a suicide. So, I've spoken with Ellen's mom quite a few times, too, and I'm hopeful that they do finally get answers as to what happened to Ellen. So you are known for your hot takes, your nononsense and your just straight, you know, no [ __ ] opinion. So I want to just get your hot take, your one-s sentence hot take on the following people and then we're going to wrap this up. Barry Morphw, there was one person in the state, the one civilian that had access to BAM B brother, a alpha mother, which is a very very powerful animal tranquiliz tranquilizer. It brings down um rhinos and elephants.

57:06 That was found in Suzanne Morphw's system. That one civilian we are told that had access to that is Barry Morphw. Chew on that Morphew. Next.

57:18 All right. Jod Aras. Jod Aras, the ultimate grifter and con who actually shot a bird at me in the courtroom. Haven't forgotten that. But that said, she changed her story multiple times. First, I wasn't there. Then her digital camera that caught shots of Travis Alexander during his death and her foot on the scene was found in the washer tangled up in the sheets. When she was confronted that with that, she goes, "Oh, okay. I was there, but two guys dressed as ninjas came in. They killed him and I got away." Really? What farce of a a crime story movie have you been watching?

58:04 Finally, she changed her story to self-defense and tried to paint Travis as a perve. Rot in hell, Aras. Next.

58:14 All right, my final one. Scott Peterson. Oh, talk about the devil. This is my one of my favorite stories about Scott Peterson. This says it all. So, two bodies washed ashore San Francisco Bay. Detectives go to Peterson and they say, "Scott Peterson, we we have horrible news. We've gotten a DNA match. Those two bodies are Lacy and Connor." Within 15 minutes, the detectives tell me, "This did not come out at trial. Scott Peterson's in the back seat. He goes, "Hey, can we drive through In-N-Out? I want a double double with cheese and a shake.

59:02 Really gum the wor. He just found out Lacy and Connor are absolutely dead. Their bodies on the San Francisco Bay beach washed up. Somehow Connor escaped Lacy's uterus. They're both dead. The hope is gone. You will never hold your son in your arms. I have a son and a daughter. That would be the worst thing that could ever happen to me is to be taken away from them. And he wants that effing double double with cheese. Anything else?

59:44 Yeah. No. Thank you so much for joining today, Nancy. Can you let everybody know where they can watch you, where they can listen to you, just so they can get more information to all?

59:52 Well, thank you. We are at Crime Stories on YouTube. We also air first at Fox One, the streaming giant. We are on SiriusXM every single day and of course on iHeart, our radio home. So, please join us. We live chat throughout the program on YouTube every single night. So, please join us.

1:00:16 Amazing. Thank you so much, Nancy. Thank you for inviting me. Please invite me again. Bye, dear.

1:00:22 All right, so I hope you guys enjoyed that episode. I certainly enjoyed talking with Nancy. I feel like I could have chatted with her for hours. I just look, I have papers and papers and papers here on my desk. I had so many questions that I wanted to ask her and unfortunately, we didn't get a chance to get to all of them. So, we are definitely going to need to have her on for round two. So, let me know in the comments if you enjoyed this episode, what you want me to ask Nancy next time she's on, and your thoughts on these cases. All right, guys. Until the next one, be nice, don't kill people, don't join any cults, and just be a good human. All right, bye.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "My Sit Down with Nancy Grace: Kohberger Posed Victims Bodies? Monique Tepe Shot MULTIPLE Times?!"?

Annie Elise (Host), Nancy Grace (Guest).

What is "My Sit Down with Nancy Grace: Kohberger Posed Victims Bodies? Monique Tepe Shot MULTIPLE Times?!" about?

In this discussion, true crime expert Nancy Grace delves into the chilling details of recent high-profile murder cases, focusing on the Idaho 4 and the Teepe murders, where victims were found posed and subjected to extreme violence. Grace brings to light previously unknown insights and revelations from notorious cases, such as those of Scott Peterson and Casey Anthony, enhancing the…

What is mentioned in this Annie Elise episode?

15 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Heather Neighbor Grace, Annie Eliss, Brian Coberger, Idaho 4, Michael McKe, Teepe murders. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "My Sit Down with Nancy Grace: Kohberger Posed Victims Bodies? Monique Tepe Shot MULTIPLE Times?!"?

The episode runs 1 h 1 min; the transcript is about 8,904 words in 92 timestamped sections.

More from Annie Elise

• All analyzed episodes
• People mentioned on Annie Elise
• Sponsors mentioned on Annie Elise
• Topics mentioned on Annie Elise