Transcript

Rerelease: Walton Goggins | Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

From Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 2 h 10 min · 26,080 words · 708 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Rerelease: Walton Goggins | Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard", an episode of Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard published January 2, 2026 (2 h 10 min, about 26,080 words). It mentions 29 people, works and ideas, including Santa Monica, White Lotus, Walton Gogggins, Fallout, The Shield.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 15:00: Fallout, Walton Gogggins, Dan Rather, Leslie Stall
  2. – 30:00: Santa Monica, Demon Copperhead
  3. – 45:00: Santa Monica, Ernest Hemingway, Georgia Southern, Joel Goldsmith
  4. – 1:00:00: The Shield, American Express, Santa Monica, The Apostle
  5. – 1:15:00: White Lotus, Fallout, Righteous Gemstones, Righteous Gemstones
  6. – 1:30:00: Alcatraz, Santa Monica, Cavalere, GoDaddy
  7. – 1:45:00: Kendrick Lamar
  8. – 2:00:00: Georgia Southern, Walton Gogggins

Notable quotes from "Rerelease: Walton Goggins | Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard"

  • Coming. Number one current obsession as an actor going on three years now probably. Walton Gogggins. Walton Gogggins. Goggle glasses. Uncle Baby Billy's Bible Bonkers.
    about Walton Gogggins · at
  • Season three of The White Lotus.
    about White Lotus · at
  • Doesn't matter. She wrote the Pulitzer Prizewinning book last year. Demon Copperhead.
    about Demon Copperhead · at
  • It's hurtful. So, you were born in Birmingham, Alabama, but you grew up in Georgia where Monica grew up as well.
    about Santa Monica · at
  • Yeah. Absolutely. and started you know studying like paramhazi yogaanda and Joel Goldsmith and the uranche and the I am and she like went on this spiritual journey you know…
    about Joel Goldsmith · at
  • I did. I did. Yeah, I did. I also just wanted a really I wanted a great experience. I got an American Express in college, right? My freshman year. As soon as I got there, I got…
    about American Express · at
  • The Shield is the first in my opinion from the outside. Seems like you're now in the big leagues. You're you have a steady paycheck. You're one.
    about The Shield · at
  • We saw Alcatraz. We saw the Golden Gate Bridge, the Bay Bridge. We went through Chinatown. We went through North Beach.
    about Alcatraz · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Santa Monica — Person · 8 mentions · first at
  • Walton Gogggins — Person · 5 mentions · first at
  • Detective Drake — Person · 3 mentions
  • Dan Rather — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Rather and I'm joined by Leslie Stall.
  • Leslie Stall — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Rather and I'm joined by Leslie Stall.
  • Ernest Hemingway — Person · 1 mention · first at
    First moved out here coming back from San Diego and hearing these people talk about Hemingway and Somerset Mom and so many of the great Faulner and how they were, they had the opportunity to be in school, they had a college.
  • Kendrick Lamar — Person · 1 mention · first at
    He was perfect. But yeah, he was almost more Kendall Kamar than Kendrick Lamar.
  • Barbara Kingsolver — Person · 1 mention
  • Somerset Maugham — Person · 1 mention
  • Terence & Cornelia Faulkner — Person · 1 mention
  • Walton Goggins — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

Companies & orgs

  • Georgia Southern — Company · 2 mentions · first at
  • American Express — Company · 2 mentions · first at
  • GoDaddy — Company · 1 mention · first at
  • Cavalere — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Oh my goodness. In fact, one of these places if you're there, I insist you go called Cavalere. It's done up. It's a bar, restaurant, tavern, and it's done as an English hunting lodge. And the decor was decor really works for me.

Concepts & topics

  • Fallout — Concept · 5 mentions · first at
    Fallout, Justified, Righteous Gemstones, Vice Principles, The Hateful Eight.
  • Righteous Gemstones — Concept · 3 mentions · first at
    Fallout, Justified, Righteous Gemstones, Vice Principles, The Hateful Eight.
  • The Hateful Eight — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
    Fallout, Justified, Righteous Gemstones, Vice Principles, The Hateful Eight.
  • The White Lotus — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
    Season three of The White Lotus.
  • Joel Goldsmith — Concept · 1 mention · first at
  • Paramahansa Yogananda — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

Full transcript with timestamps

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Rather and I'm joined by Leslie Stall.

Oh my gosh. She comes up occasionally. Back in the old days, she would pop up a lot.

That is high praise. Very high praise. I love Leslie Stall. Yeah, she's great. She's a firecracker. Okay. Long time coming. Number one current obsession as an actor going on three years now probably. Walton Gogggins. Walton Gogggins. Goggle glasses. Uncle Baby Billy's Bible Bonkers. This guy's an aliteration wet dream.

Yes, I love Walton Gogggins. I mean, he's an incredible actor, but he was also a beautiful person.

Such an interesting colorful person. Um, there should be a word for just best across the board actor. It's not on a single project and it's just it's like best dramatic, best comedy, whatever. There's just best actor and I think Walton would be the shoe. I agree

cuz there's nobody doing comedy better and there's nobody doing drama better. That's right.

Fallout, Justified, Righteous Gemstones, Vice Principles, The Hateful Eight. He stole the Hateful Eight, which is hard to do. That's a hell of a cast.

Season three of The White Lotus. It wasn't enough he was in my favorite comedy show, Righteous Gemstone, or that he was in my favorite action show, Fallout. Now he had to join my favorite dramdy, White Lotus.

He hits all the genres. What a dick. Also, Walt and Gogggins goggle glasses. Learn more at gogansgogles.com.

You'll hear us in the goggles at the top of the show. Yeah, we'll be fully, if you're watching, were adorned in the go Gogggins goggle glasses.

Yeah, we are. Okay. Now, this is a big merch update. Yes, huge update. So, we were unable to do our own merch. We have to do our merch through Amazon Wondery. We have asked them if we can just do it while we're getting that sorted. And we have a one-mon window where we've got a bunch of really cool, wellthoughtout merch. You can go to www.armmchairexpertpod.com.

Bunch of cool designs. A lot of things that were on the limited edition sweatshirts are now making their way to t-shirts

with some additional designs and some sweats. And it's a really cool little collection.

Yes. And this is not calculated into a pressure cooker, but it will be about a month long that we're allowed to do this.

I mean, there's a chance we might be able to continue it. We don't know yet. Just letting you guys know it's up.

We know we have the month. So, order now. There'll be a delay cuz we have to make it all and ship it. So, if you need it overnight,

that's probably not going to happen. It's a pre-sale, but go there and order all the stuff you want and then it'll get to you at some time. Go to www.ch.

Get your merch. Please enjoy Walton Gogggins [ __ ] glasses. He's an object. Oh, hey. Whoa. Wait a minute. Whoa. Is there a guest? We have We have Go ahead.

I don't know that she's like I think I think we have the star of the show. I'm just a guest star.

Monty, you want to slide yours on? I put them there for you. Yes, I would. I figure we could start in them.

Oh my god. He brought you specifically blue. Yeah. Like honey, sit on the couch for half a second. You're not even Mike.

Yeah. Yeah. Let's This [ __ ] can move product. Pickle ball. Skydiving. Wear it on the boat scuba diving. You ever cut onions in these bad boys?

Oh, I've cut onions in them. Yeah. There's no penetration. They're very comfortable.

They're Yeah, they're comfortable. They're cool. This feels like we're um having an interview on a on a chairlift on the way up the mountain, which kind of happens. You know, you're sitting on that chair lift for minutes and minutes and you have them talking about some stuff.

I feel like this is such a good product for you. You know how sometimes people have brands that

So, you're like, I don't get it. I don't get the A to B. This is an A. Why does Tom Cruz have lawn care equipment?

Exactly. But this But does he have lawn? But does he does he the Top Gun mower?

Say the name out loud. Uh Walton Gogggins goggle glasses. I mean that's as close as you can get to Uncle Baby Billy's Bible Bunkers.

Yeah, there's a Yeah, there's some there's some similarities there. A bit of a nod.

Yeah, just a nod. A little thing. It worked out for Baby Billy. Maybe it'll work out for me.

I am an athlete, but I'm not an a I'm a I'm a good athlete. I'm not I'm not a great athlete at all.

Okay. But really the thing that I got out of playing sports more than anything else was I just love the equipment man. Like I just love the gear putting on the the football pads. I love the gloves. I mean I love like pep rallies. Let me ask you something like wearing them right now.

Do you think that you would go for a shot a pickle ball shot that you might otherwise not go for since you have a strap on your head? Just go like

dive in 100%. You would right 100. I feel 100. I feel very cool in these. Honey, if you walk straight out of here and get in my Z Wagon and drive the stick shift like you're Mario [ __ ] Andredddy because of those, I won't be shocked at all. At all.

Oh my god. I've never driven a stick. That's right. We live like 15 minutes from a ski resort where we are now

in the Hudson Valley. Oh, nice. I mean, it's the Hudson Valley, right? This isn't like Aspen, Colorado, but it's got a vibe. It's a super cool place. And I drop my kid off at school and and like any good dad would I mean I'll I'll go I'll go skiing

and then you know like most American dads. Yeah. Like 10 runs and uh and then I'll have a beer like

sit outside and like there's a fire pit kind of out there and uh and then go home and take a nap and

sober up everyone I promise. And go pick up my kids. But one particular day I was sitting out like uh was like the fire pit, you know, it's just a lovely little thing and and it's cold and and I got these these goggles on, you know, whatever the Oakley cool glasses are. And it was like I'm cold, but I was just sitting there having a beer. I said, I I never want to take these glasses off.

Sure. Where are we all like when it comes to reading glasses? And do you need them? Do you not need them? And go.

A year and a half ago, um my eyes died. Yeah. They just died and I don't know what happened but it was overnight and now I'm at a

I think a one I guess is my prescription and I don't think they're very strong but when my kids put them on they make a lot they make quite a bit of fun.

Well they get a headache instantly. Yeah. And I I do have to wear them a lot. Same to my with my wife and um who's um older than I am. Just just a couple of years baby. I'm so sorry. Shout out two years and two days. November 8th, she's a Scorpio.

I won't say the year, baby. You couldn't even see me wink, can you? Cuz you don't really know what's going on in my thoughts. But she said, you know, she said, uh, you're you're you know, it's it's coming for you. And I said, you know, I don't think so. I think it's ever coming for me. And then and then and then literally, she said, it'll happen overnight. And and it did. It went from here to here.

Wow. And then the next night, you know, blind, laid down to reading [snorts] and and been blind. your representatives, your publicists. I bet in their best case scenario, they hoped we would talk about these glasses for 30 seconds. That's my guess. That's probably Yeah, I'm guessing.

In their most optimistic state, they're like, I pray they bring them up. And I hope they do 30 seconds on

and we've done legit a good 15. We've done 15 minutes on these things. It's time to talk about Don't panic. I'll get out of your hair. You guys have fun.

It's so good to see you. So nice to see you. Will you just publicly real quick put it? Yes.

I want to tell you sincerely, 850 guests, she's asked to come meet, I think, four people where she said, "What time are you recording? I'm going to make sure I'm not doing anything. I must meet this person." And you're one of four.

Well, we've worked together. Oopsie. Way to go, Dax. [ __ ] not only did we So sorry. At this point stands, I have People are in and out of this yard all [clears throat] the time. people that I know, people that I don't know, people that I respect, people that I'm fans of, and I've come in to say hi to maybe four or five people, and you are definitely one of them because we are, how do you even say it?

You're number one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I But by the way, we I have the evidence. I have on this show numerous times said, "You are my number one." So far away. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I've ever seen anyone before emotional. They're great for mass cry public crying, too. We left that out. Um, there isn't anyone I've ever seen that is apex drama and apex comedy

the way you are. It seems impossible to be honest. Yeah. It's [ __ ] to go from righteous to Fallout in one year.

Honest to God, it's it's staggering. And the fact that you were in that disgusting like face mask on Fallout and every woman in America was still like, I want that. That is a sexy radiation cowboy in my bedroom once a week. You got the rhythm. We love you. I'm glad I got to see you.

Yeah. You don't really have the body of a beer drinker. When you said that, I was like, I don't buy it.

Okay. He's one of these guys, though. We're going to get into it. He's one of these charmed. Yeah. Yes. Those are yours.

They're yours. They're yours. And yours look great as a hairband. Yeah, I love it as a also a hair band accessory.

Yeah. Very exciting. Well, you know, I mean, they have I mean, there are a lot of different I mean, the names, right? And then we'll just kind of move on to something else, but the white ones are cumulan nimbus,

which is a cloud formation. Yes, they are white. I think they're the the coolest.

Okay. In the sense that it's like, [ __ ] he's he's rocking some white [ __ ] uh goggle glasses with a a red, white, and blue band. Like it's confidence.

It's confidence. It's very cool. And then uh and then we have a a noir pair, a black pair called Mama's Skillet.

They're named after my my mama's skillet. Is it? Yes, it is. Okay, we're going to pin and mama skillet.

Yeah. And uh uh these are uh Tortuga, right? Which is like you can't you got to have a tortoise shell, man.

So what does the word Tortuga? Where does it come from? It means uh a a black and brown pattern. Oh, okay. It's not like

No, it's a turtle. It's a turtle. It's a type of turtle. It's a turtle. Spanish.

In Spanish, in Spanish. Yes. And then we have uh lemon cello. Ooh, that's which is yellow. Right.

Which is yellow. And then we have uh the color that you're wearing, which is guess what?

Blue. Wow. Decided to go real conventional for just one. That's so cool. Which is comical because if any color deserved a adjective before it, it would be blue. There's so many kinds. You're like, "No, there's only one blue and this is it."

You're thinking differently. You're questions. Okay, here we go. We're going to get serious now, sir.

Okay, let's get so serious. So, yeah, you get it. I I love you so much. I have been um wanting this to happen for very, very long. And I was working with Rob Cordry for a period, who I adore. And then I found out you guys are close. And you would vacation together in Europe, which sounds exactly what I'd imagine you do.

Hey, always so elegant. And maybe I want to jump to one thing to then come back to where you're from because I was watching an interview with you and you were discussing having been offered justified

to be in the pilot. You were going to die in justified and that was going to be it.

Yeah. and you read it and you turned it down twice for a very specific reason and I want you to tell me why cuz I really liked it.

I'm a huge Elmore Leonard fan, you know, for one thing, but I felt that it was so uh one-dimensional and um and I didn't not because I can afford not to do this anymore.

Yeah. For much of your early career, all of us, we got to play what they offer.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if you're, you know, if you're Italian and you're from New York, chances are you're going to you're going to shoot somebody.

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And you're going to be eating some [ __ ] pasta. You're going to eat some pasta. You're going to dig a hole in the desert.

Absolutely. And you're going to smile while you're doing it. Yeah. That's right. And you know, but we all look for boxes to kind of fit in when we're starting out. And it just so happened to be at that point in my life that I had gotten out of a number of those boxes. And and and this was uh one box that I just felt like I'm not just going to I can't perpetuate this stereotype. and sell out my culture, you know, anymore because that's um from an outsers's perspective, uh the like like a like a lot of things, you know, like a like a lot of different cultures in in America, they're they're reducible to a, you know, one impersonation, right? And it's like, okay, well, if I can speak like this, you know, and I come down here and like I'm from the south, what what does that even [ __ ] mean? I mean, the south represents a third of this country. Each region is um and each state and each part of every state is

very unique. Yeah. Like like the state of New York. I mean the state of New York isn't just New Yorkers. I mean I live in the city of New York now.

Two dramatically different cultures actually. You live in dramatically. Yeah. Absolutely.

Manhattan and and uh Valley. Yeah. That's right. And so but it just felt like I was at a place in my life where you know I just was unwilling to to do that

to participate in the perpetuation of this. Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean and I think I think everybody you know at some point when whenever you can kind of step out uh you don't need the money morally. You just don't think that it's right and you don't want to feel shame uh uh whenever you're visiting you know those places that you you're just you know another part of the problem. Right. This is where the conversation ends and I wanted it to be where the conversation began. And so on the third conversation we had uh after I I turned it down twice and and I say that that's no

you're not I'm not I'm not proud of it. I'm not there's no ego involved in that whatsoever because I'm such a a huge fan of Tim Olifants and Michael Denner uh who was directing it and and and wrote a good bit of it. But Graham Yoast who wrote the pilot on the third time I said okay I'll do it uh two things. I'm the smartest person in the room always. after I say this very long speech in the pilot, you just need

kind of crazy racist rant. Racist rant. That's right. That you say this one line, which is, I know you don't believe half the things that you're saying. You just need an audience or or or something like that. I just needed a version of that line.

Yeah. For him to see through that, which is true. It's crazy having watched it not knowing that story and how important that weird detail was cuz it also built this weird rapport with you two which makes it so much more compelling.

You have a past. Yes, we do have a past. And that little line that you were [clears throat] wanting to not perpetuate, right? Yeah.

Ends up also being this other layer which is really really compelling. Well, it also allows the audience to kind of come into the experience, doesn't it? I mean like no one has tolerance for intolerance really you know I I don't and uh it just gave you know the audience the opportunity to um to experience this this person and really to to go forward. I asked for those things [clears throat] not with a six-year contract. You know this was to be in the pilot and die the pilot and die. you know, it's like, "Okay, I'll come in, you know, and and and we'll do this thing and and just give me that and then I can sleep better at night."

And, you know, he's so [ __ ] incredible after they tested it and everything. Every every single person like, "Well, no, no, not a chance. I can't Yeah, he can't die."

Yeah. It just adds a third dimension to a person. We had a guest that so like beautifully articulated this. Um, do you know the author Barbara Kingolver by chance? Doesn't matter. She wrote the Pulitzer Prizewinning book last year. Um, Demon Copperhead.

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The most beautiful book. I read it. My whole family's from Kentucky. She said in that book, she's trying to explain how it feels to be in the South and especially in Appalachia. She described it as, "We're in the bathroom stall in high school and we can hear you making fun of us. We hear the popular kids making fun of us.

Yeah. We get these TV shows. We get these songs. We get all this stuff. We're We can hear you. Mhm. [clears throat]

It's so [ __ ] offensive and hurtful and you don't even care. No, it's so easy to do.

Yeah. And it's so hurtful and we can hear you. And the way she described as sitting in a bathroom stall and hearing everyone talk about you.

I just had a a whole renewed compassion for one of the great stereotypes that kind of persists.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean in in some ways it was, you know, uh I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this, but it's permissible.

Yeah. You know, in urban culture, uh like, you know, certainly on both coast, it's lowhanging fruit. It's always there.

That's right. You can always go to it and you can always get a laugh from your constituents

and they're with us watching. Yeah, that's right. And part of it, they're also in the audience. Yeah, that's right.

It's hurtful. So, you were born in Birmingham, Alabama, but you grew up in Georgia where Monica grew up as well. from Georgia.

Whoa. I know you're talking about Kentucky, but I'm from Georgia. A little peach.

That's right. A little peach and and ATL or Yeah. Duth. So, whatever. Where where in Georgia?

Uh, we lived in a [ __ ] trailer in Birmingham, Alabama. First year of my life.

And And I I think my mom's sisters lived I think it was like I don't know, five or six people. And uh my parents got divorced pretty pretty early in my childhood. Three I think three something like that. Maybe two and a half, three, something like that.

So um but I but my earliest memories are are with my mom uh in Decar, Georgia, which is right downtown right?

It's very cool now. It's very hit right in park. There's so many great uh places uh in in Atlanta now. Like so many, you know, urban uh cities in America.

Yeah. This this whole new generation is going to come in and give me some third wave coffee and [ __ ] some [clears throat] great sourdough bread and

a little avocado toast. What's coming next? Great. Oh, Mediterranean food. Fantastic.

But Lithia, do you know Lithia? Lithia. Lithia Springs. We moved out to uh which is west side.

We moved out to my mom and I lived in Decar like three years. You know, one of my earliest memories I couldn't have been more than four. I have a lot of memories from that house that we lived in this duplex.

But one is is uh one of the scariest uh memories of of my childhood of of my life really. And it was uh my mom's bedroom was in the front, my bedroom was in the back. And my mom was, you know, she's a young woman. She was a beautiful woman. And and uh you know, and she had a you know, a super cool boyfriend and all the rest of it. And and I I slept in my in my bed alone like child at that point.

Only child. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And um and I went to sleep and and and my my little uh twin bed was right up against the wall and with my body, I'm going to say my upper torso was uh next to uh the wall right?

And then from my knees down, being a father, I understand these kind of measurements, right? I mean, you know what that's like for a fouryear-old. It's not a lot of space in the body. Yeah. And um and so but from my knees down was in front of a window and I was going to to sleep and uh just as I was about to fall asleep, there was a a light in the backyard and I had this, you know, whatever the [ __ ] house came with these shades that were kind of pulled down. So you had this light kind of outside and and and it was an opaque shade so you could see through it. And just as I was falling asleep, I saw someone crawl in front of my window

because there was a roof right outside of it was two stories. A roof right outside that window and I saw it like I don't know if it was a man or a woman. I don't I have no idea.

I think we can assume that's a man if I'm betting on this or a woman escaping. He was a man that was like craw and he and he made his way he was on his knees and he made his way in

and he was just sitting there like perfectly outlined in my window his whole body and then he he went up and I and I couldn't scream and uh and he went frozen and he had his hands on the on the window and he was trying to to see if it would open and he was kind of doing the thing up and I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. I couldn't scream and he went up and he went up and and then eventually he just kind of went past the window and as soon as he was out of sight, I got my voice back and I started screaming. Yeah. And uh

Did mom's boyfriend run to the scene? Yeah. I I don't know if he was there that night. I don't remember. I don't I kind That's kind of the end of that memory. I remember my mom

coming in or something, but but it was terrifying. [snorts] And then we moved out to Lithia Springs when I was uh God, I don't know, maybe like I guess 5 years old. We found an 1850s farmhouse and it was uh two bedrooms

and uh you had to walk through my room to get to the bathroom, right? Yeah. And it was um [ __ ] cold,

you know? It was really [ __ ] cold in the winter. It was that kind of thing. He's like, "Well, I'm going to go to sleep with this glass of water on the edge of my bed and I know I'm going to wake up and it's going to be frozen,

you know?" Yeah. Look, mama, I can't There's no more water in my glass. Mama, get me out of here. I can't get

What the [ __ ] wrong with us? Were there stepdads in the mix? I did not have a stepdad. My My mom never got remarried. Um but uh you know, she had some boyfriends

and um and and I loved all of them. You did? I loved them madly. And um you know, some of them were a little hard and you know, you know, a couple of them were younger than they probably should have been. Good for her. So [ __ ] hot.

Oh my god. We need a picture of your mom. She's just cool. My mom's so [ __ ] cool. Yeah. Who do you get your swagger from? Because I have been lucky enough to see photos of your dad and Monica. I can't wait to describe his father to you. But you showed some pictures on Seth Meyers of him.

Yeah. And he is a one of a [ __ ] kind. Oh, dude. He sent me he texted me a photo yesterday. [ __ ] Oh my god. Dad, if you ever see this, I can't believe you made this [ __ ] coffee mug. It was a picture of this of these glasses and me and these glasses as a part of the campaign or whatever. And he made himself a coffee mug

where you know he's a narcissist. My dad clinically you know and I think he he he knows it. Don't you dad?

I mean you do. Come on dad. You know he's listening me this thing. You know he didn't I mean he said congratulations. He loves me. Yes. You know and [clears throat] I love him. It has these logos like this logo [ __ ] all over this little thing here all over the the bottom of it and then at the top that's facing out you know where people would be seeing it

is a picture of me and these glasses and he just said underneath it in big letters there is no him without me.

Oh no no that's what it says on the mug. On the [ __ ] mug that's perfect. I could almost guess that caption. My father, and I wonder if you have this, as I got famous, he loved, of course,

telling people. I wanted to take in how proud he was of me, and he was deeply proud of me.

Yeah. But I was just I couldn't trust that it wasn't maybe more about him getting attention.

Of course, man. You're an extension of him, which makes more sense now that I have kids. I get you're right. There is a very tiny line between you, but Okay, but let me ask you,

can you relate to that? Uh oh. I Yeah, I had a lifetime of of that. We're not the only people, right, that had this kind of experience. My father was married six times, but one was an

count. It was like a shotgun kind of anulment. But so it was like, you know, the the running joke kind of in my household was like inevitably everybody has a, you know, bumper sticker that says honk if you've ever been married to Sandy Gogggins. I mean, [ __ ] who hasn't [clears throat] he married? I mean honestly but uh but my mom never remarried but she had a you know some wonderful men come through and then we had a a cast of characters like in my life. It was like kind of this way station for people. My mom was

she took a big bill. She was the the most sane of of the her three sisters. Yeah.

And uh who were [ __ ] and are insane uh uh clinically I think. But I but it was really colorful and and a really you know I was raised kind of by the real steel magnolia.

You got to meet characters. It sounds like man not only I get to meet them they [ __ ] lived with us you know they raised you.

Yeah it was kind of Yeah. It was kind of being raised by uh you know a group of people that

upon reflection though are you grateful for it? so grateful for it. When I grew up, where you grew up, and when you grew up,

whenever you would meet someone that was so [ __ ] authentic, even someone who was relatively authentic, even someone who was just like the farmer across the street, Kermit, and like and his wife are like,

everyone in my life was eccentric. Yeah, like I had no one. I mean, except for the Hurst family, which were my neighbors. Uh Holly and David were my best friends and and Ken and Carol

were like my mom and dad. They actually fed me regularly, right? They had a a bed that I could always sleep in. Yeah.

And they would actually take me to practice, but they would also pick me up from practice, right? I wasn't They were dependable.

They were Yeah, they were about as good as Americans can get. They were just wonderful people. Um, but god damn, I'm glad that I wasn't raised

solely by like by them, you know, like uh this far into it. And I I just absolutely love [ __ ] lunatics. I love crazy people, but just enough crazy. I don't see enough people

stopping and and seeking out those conversations or taking the time with people like that the way that I did. May maybe I think well I'm around a lot of people you know but I just don't see that listening to those people and do you am I wrong about that

you think people dismiss I think that eccentricity if it doesn't fit in a if it if it does if the conversation can't be had in about 3 minutes and if it is like

if it doesn't jive with all your it's really interesting but if you're not checking if you're only checking one of the 10 boxes required for me to have a conversation I'm not [ __ ] having it right I mean because people are busy and there's a phone and you you know, and there's other thing like do you think that's do you think that's true or no?

Gosh, I think it's complicated because I also think people because of social media, people also lean deeply into their eccentricity almost in an inauthentic way in a performative way.

It's performative. So, I think authenticity has gotten very complicated and public and confusing. And you are interfacing with people that have either real or faux eccentricities and you are engaging with them in that platform. I didn't even think about that.

Well, also they you can get that itch scratch which is you can go watch someone that's batshit nuts on Instagram and you're like oh good I saw my whereas when we were kids I still Kristen will hear me say this all the time. like we're somewhere we're at an airport and I just lock on to somebody and I'll say out loud my got to find out what this guy's up to and I'll go chat, you know, like people catch my eye all the time and I'm like dying to find out what's cracking,

what's going on outside of this airport. What kind of kid were you in school? I was alone a lot as a as a kid, you know, um because my I was a single mom, right? And I just I was just I don't know how I was just alone a lot and and so uh over over the course of my life I had babysitters houses or I felt like I spent most of my life waiting to be picked up

you know at times I felt like uh you know an inconvenience you know even though that wasn't their intention.

Yeah. Um, I remember seeing like The Bridges of Madison County and [ __ ] Burbank whenever that movie came out in the early 90s or whatever and then calling my mom from a pay phone in the [ __ ] lobby walking out apologizing for being bored like like but not and just like I'm so sorry I held you back from doing some of these things, you know?

You were young and your whole life was ahead of you. Yeah. And she has still had a [ __ ] great life.

Well, sounds like them younger suitors. Yeah. But she was like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not the no son. No, no. You are the gift. You are it." Yeah.

But at the time, I didn't feel that. I think in school, I think if you were to like have this was a class reunion or or this is your life, people from my middle school or uh high school, I was uh popular.

Yeah. Uh kind. Uh I think I was relatively I think I could make people lack a charm people, you know. Yeah,

I always felt different. I always knew that this wasn't like I'm not Yeah, I'm not going to be here forever, right? And um I had a lot of friends. I mean, like my senior superlative, even though I didn't win it, but I was the second or the first runner up for most friendliest, you know, and I I thought it would be best dressed, but they took they took that out of the [ __ ] you know, thing like that year because it's like, well, we just decided, you know, like because poor kids that, you know, they don't have the same opportunity. I'm pulling my

But I figured it out. But I figured it out. I got a job, [ __ ] I was rich. $2 scarf with this $3 shirt and now it looks

See this [ __ ] Look at this. I bought this [ __ ] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

I was a great student. Oh, no kidding. A great student. I had no structure in my life. I've said this in other in other interviews uh that like I don't think I slept in the same bed for more than seven days straight until I was like [ __ ] 15. You know what I mean?

So I had to generate my own structure and uh large part of that uh it helped me it served me my entire life, right? Because it's like okay well I got to work harder than everybody in this room.

Well, it makes you a selfarter because no one's going to start it for you. That's right. Yeah, that's exactly right. and and so but but studying and all of those things and and uh I remember writing a a a poem that was the class assignment.

Mhm. And it was a you know pick it about this it's like a haik coup or whatever it was and uh and so I picked it about divorce

and I wrote this thing and um and then I you know I came to turn it in and then like you know the next day or whatever I she gave it back to me. And it was like an F, you know,

and and I said, "Uh, whoa." I said, "I'm so sorry. Like, I think this is this is pretty good." And she said, "It's great, but you didn't write it." [gasps]

And I said, "What?" Oh, so it's the ultimate compliment. Yeah. It's like you you didn't you didn't write this.

You must have said, "What are you talk?" Yes, I did. This is I had to I'm like that guy. It's from my heart.

Yeah. You know, like I just showed you my heart. Showed you my call me a fraud.

Yeah. And then my mom kind of came to school and said, "No, no, no. It was him." It all worked out. I've never wanted to read a poem in my entire life until right now. I'm like dying to write.

Do you know it? Do you know it by heart? I I know. I might get it tattooed on my heart.

No, no, no. I I I remember a couple raps I I wrote in high school. We'll get to that later.

Okay. So, you you went to Southern Georgia University for a year and a half. Georgia Southern.

Georgia Southern. Georgia Southern. Did you go to I went to Georgia. Did you went to you went to UG?

I did. Yeah. She too was a great God. I mean, you really are. You're from Georgia man.

I know I am. I sure am. We got in a big fight about it cuz I went to the Texas game with Dax and

in Texas. In Austin, Texas, are you No, he's not. I'm a big Austin fan. Yeah, I'm a big Austin fan.

It's my religion. Yeah, that's right. That's the number one city in America. It's a great city.

Well, they were playing Georgia and I refused to. And we were the guests. We were guests of some of

McC it's his [ __ ] religion. We're in his thing. We gota we got to hook him. No, we don't.

Did you wear like a [ __ ] Georgia hat? I wore a bulldog shirt and a red sweater. Like were you on the field or were you in you in a box? Yeah.

But surrounded by a bunch of orange and I was like absolutely not. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz she was so mad that I wanted the Longhorn swing. Wow.

It put our our friendship to the test. It really did. We barely barely navigated that.

Well, I want to We don't have to talk about it now, but I want to know the history of this of this friendship.

It's odd. We're best friends. Yeah. We fight non-stop. We think about the world so differently so often. But yeah,

it it works. It works. Um it works big time. It's But I do, circling back a little bit, I do think we are very volatile.

Yeah. Um, and I think that's somewhat of a result of his upbringing and potentially mine. And when we were talking about chaos

and relationships, do you seek that out? I think we subconsciously seek it out.

You mean conflict with each other or do you think in your own lives? Like, if I'm being honest, I think I think that's part of the draw. There's something always that could blow up.

Yeah, that's right. And part of the attraction to this, I think so. Right. Right. I think Yeah. I think I crave novelty. I crave a challenge. I crave being engaged.

Mhm. And because she's so smart and has such a strong point of view, and it's so often different from mine, right?

It's very ripe for very engaged, very heartfelt debate. And we love each other. So,

we would like to have the same opinion. So, the stakes are high, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Now, that makes for a great show. It's been going on for 7 years. It's been going on a long time.

We have to really navigate it quite often. Yeah. Okay. But I think that's the best kind of relationship. I agree with you. I I I like could you be with the f I could never be with a fan. I have friends I know people who are are very successful and then they get a very beautiful person who's just along for the ride and they're a fan. Yeah.

I would be so bored out of my mind. Like my wife is hard as a [ __ ] I gota Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Super smart, super talented, very driven, very ambitious, gonna get her way. I need that.

Yeah. I I I have that in in in my life. My my wife is more often than not the smartest person in any room that I walk in for sure. And uh she's a a [ __ ] intellectual baller, you know, and uh and can speak about the world. She understands the world in a very nuanced, complex way and um and is able to walk with kings, you know, really.

Yeah. And you got to have your [ __ ] straight before you enter into a frey with her. Like she makes you I'm presuming

the very best version of yourself. Well, I mean, I don't know. or or like the worst version too, you know, because it's and the thing that you know we have or the thing that you know that I I say often is like look I'm 90 I'm Zen 99% of the time

and she says well it's the 1% where you should be [ __ ] zen man you know it's the 1% when you're challenged to that place that's your then that's your lesson I said or maybe it's [ __ ] not my le but that's kind of that thing I mean [clears throat] I think I'm I think I'm cool I'm cool I'm cool to Hey man [ __ ] Q, you know, I'm not cool.

I'm cool until I'm I'm I'm not cool. And so, and I think I I think that level of volatility

uh is present uh in in my work. And maybe you feel that way in your work. And that is the same with my wife and all of let's say all of my my friends.

I look for that in other people. It's like, you know, wow. Okay. This [ __ ] I need 10% crazy in the mix.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Monica's 26% crazy and I'm 35% crazy. So I would go a little bit off.

You know what though? And I don't know if you feel this way. Is is is Kristen crazy?

That's a great question. Less and less less and less and less. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. She's really both of us, by the way, have gotten way milder. Yeah. Of course you have.

It can exist so much easier than it, you know, 17 years. You're 19 years. 20. Wow. 20

January 11th, man. January 11th. Yeah. I mean, been married for that long, but we met uh Yeah. on a blind date. Yeah. Like uh 20 years ago. January 11th.

The stuff that you used to the volume comes down on a lot of stuff. It has. And and we've really we've gone through a lot like uh you know, like every every relationship has and uh and it's been uh really quite quite a bit uh in the last while. And like every relationship, you know, ups and downs and peaks and valleys and and all the rest of it, but but there's a this thing that has eluded us for so long and it's like and we see it coming.

Mhm. Like it's like, oh, I [ __ ] know exactly how this is going to go down. And I don't want to like, okay, let's step off this train right now. Let's step off. Like there's a there's an offramp right here, man. Here it is. Like you could just take it or walk. You could just turn around. Like there's an offramp here. Oh, she's not letting you leave. Oh, you're not letting her. Oh. Oh. Hey, you know what? And now we're doing

[ __ ] I'm out, man. The little switch of here. And a little burst of euphoria comes when you go, "Oh, I'm going to burn the house down. Here we go." And it's a little bit intoxicating.

It is intoxicating. But you know who in my family doesn't have any of that. Even though is is our child. He is so [ __ ] calm and so wise and so measured and and extremely passionate.

Yeah. And uh how fun a deep deep deep deep thinker. What could be more fun? Yeah.

Okay. Here's the limb I wanted to go out on. Okay. Let's go. But I just curious given the similar background.

Is it hard for you when someone's in a bad mood? Like my things with my wife are generally, and I have this with Monica, too. I have this with everyone in my life.

If someone's in a really bad mood, I have this unreasonable desire to fix that for them and to regulate them,

right? And if I can't do it, I'm very uncomfortable. Yeah. Right. Because you spent a lifetime doing that, regulating kind of other people's uh uh

Well, that was my guess. I'm wondering like single mom, it's like normally dad would be in charge of that. If mom's got an emotional issue, dad would be in charge of that. I I think my mom was so uh she she's not she never she never fit that box, right? She never fit that stereotype. Smoked a lot of weed,

had a really good time. Uh you know, loved, you know, very passionate woman, loved to have sex. Mine too.

Yeah. Right. My mom's an admitted love addict. Yeah. Absolutely. and started you know studying like paramhazi yogaanda and Joel Goldsmith and uh the uranche and and the I am and she like went on this spiritual journey you know started when I was about I don't know 10 or 11 years old and kind of had me reading you know all of those texts um so much so that that I just kind of missed out on the classics because I felt like it was a waste of time if if you weren't doing something that it was expanding kind of your consciousness is then then what would why would you do it? Yeah, I didn't realize that until I was in a car with some friends that I had made in California when I first in LA when I first moved out here coming back from San Diego and and hearing these people talk about Hemingway and Somerset Mom and and and so so many of the the great Faulner and and how they were, you know, they had the opportunity to be in

school, you know, they had a college education and uh and hearing them, you know, kind of cross reference these authors and and and how it was applicable to cinema or a song that they were listening to and and I just, you know, was in the back seat just like

wasn't saying anything, you know, I was just listening to all of this and um and I just thought I I want that kind of in my life.

To circle back to what you said, no, I didn't I I had to please a lot of people. I had to please my father, you know, I wasn't around him that much, but when I was, I I desperately had to do that. That's not our problem, you know. My my my problem is early in my life um my problem was uh a a profound insecurity um based on uh poverty, right? and and uh and not having those things to the point where like in high school or like middle school uh like uh a a girlfriend's parents were coming to pick me up and uh and I would just uh give them an address that wasn't my address and right before you know they were supposed to get me like I say, "Okay, mom, you know, I got to go. I got to go." My mom never really I had no structure, no boundaries. No boundaries whatsoever. My mom was like, "I trust you, man." You know,

and so I would just slip out of the house and I would go to a nicer house, Ken and Ken and Carol's house, my neighbors, you know, with their nicer home

and just like hide in the ditch, you know, or out by their bushes and and I would see the headlights kind of pulling and I would just run out in the driveway.

It's like, "Okay, hey y'all. What's you know what's going on?" "Yeah, we're we're ready." And then the lights would come on and this is that your I was like, "Ah, they're fine. Bye, mom."

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and then kind of get into things. It's humiliating, right? Poverty is humiliating when you're young like that.

You just don't fit in, right? You know, there's just like like we never filled up our our gas tank. I ever I don't I don't think I ever I never remember my mom or an aunt or one of these [ __ ] crazy people I was with. No one had the money to to put more than like, you know, three to five bucks in your gas tank. You know what I mean? And so I had a lot of that and I and so then it would it was like it's like a chip on your shoulder but but but it's not and then you you allow for judge for judging, right?

Uh until he gets to a certain point and then you react to that judging. It's like well wait a minute I'm just as good as you. And so I you know I had a lot of that [ __ ] early on especially kind of in uh relationships just

I was left a lot you know so like a lot of people abandonment issues and um and and just thinking you know I'm never everyone leaves everyone's going to leave so you know I don't you know please don't love me or you know or love me and please don't let me go you think that's a journey for a lot of people and and and what I in my own journey in my uh spiritual walk which is a part of you know this this whole experience with white lotus falling in love with yourself like really like if you can god damn if you can get to that point where you're okay you you know with you you're okay even even though once you find it then then it it will very quickly disappear.

Yeah it's transient. Yes. Absolutely. Um, and once you have that realization and once you have a a a degree of selflove, at least at least this is what my experience was. That also came with boundaries,

you know, real boundaries. And I try I've gotten better about, hey, this is you're treading in like this is no man's land right now. You know, it's we're okay, but this is not okay with me. And I'm not poor anymore.

Yeah. Uh but but uh but I don't think that ever fully leaves you. Do you wrestle with the I wrestle a lot with I hated rich people. If there were a bad guy in the world, it was rich people.

Yeah. Yeah. I felt less than around them all the time. So I didn't like how I felt. It

was not their fault. I now know that. But you know, I had this chip on my shoulder about rich people.

Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. and then trying to come to terms with the reality of oh I'm one of those people.

Yeah. That's a little discombobuliating like and there's shame around that. Yeah. Yeah. You feel guilt. You like survivors guilt. It's complicated.

The thing that that I I had and something you kind of brought up earlier um and experiencing it in the back of this car came up from San Diego. My envy wasn't around the acquisition of things, right? Even though I I

I just wish we had some [ __ ] heat, you know what I mean? Like like these are just like bare minimum, you know, something like Yes. I wish we had some yogurt like,

you know, like something like some extravagant, you know, piece. Wish I didn't have to cut off half of this block of cheese to get to the good cheese.

Yes, that's exactly right. But it was it was time to think like I was jealous and envious of wow man these these people went to college and they didn't have they just were [ __ ] in college. They just had an opportunity to

even though they worked or whatever but they had an opportunity to just sit and and learn or read and then go, you know, uh talk about things that they had just learned. And I just never I never had the space to to do that. And I I would have been good at it, you know. I' have been really really good at it. And while I haven't I left school after, you know,

a year and a half. A year and a half. You're right. It's a privilege. I I think we do forget. We take for granted that going to school and being able to be there and think critically is a privilege.

It is a privilege. Yeah. We just do it. We think we have to do it. We go we try to get through it and like it's should be rethought of. for just like a daily reminder of, you know, this is a privilege. It's not a right. And and what do you do kind of with your

with the time that you have at the microphone? You know, what is it that you you're what is it that you want to say? Well, I I didn't have that uh in college. I I have been able to even without money give myself um those opportunities through travel, you know, and being alone, giving myself permission to be on the road for a very long period of time, you know, understanding culture. I've talked about this in other interviews, so this isn't um revvely. But in addition to that, I I feel that way about work. I feel that way about the time I am now afforded to give myself to live in my imagination uh in preparation to start a job.

Yeah. And and to stay in that world over the course of telling that story. Yeah. I I so I feel like I have that now. Like that's my education and that's time to like ask those existential questions or listen to that music or read uh that this person would listen to or or watch those movies that are applicable to

just indulge your imagination. You have time and space to [ __ ] indulge this part of your brain.

Yeah. That's so special that very few people get to. And I don't take that for granted. I'm with you. I'm with you. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm never interested in why someone wanted to become an actor, but I actually with you I am. How do we go from that tiny town in a year and a half in college? When do you go, "Oh, I'm going to be a performer."

I feel like I was always a performer. I I was raised around uh some very performative people. Yeah.

Really interesting, funny people. They were they were great storytellers. Yeah. If you're going to take up time at the dinner table, it better [ __ ] land.

Yeah. And even if you couldn't because there were five stories going at once. Do you know what I mean? But more often than not, people would like, okay, pass the baton in my household. And there wasn't a lot of talking over each other. It was like depending on like the level of inebriation, you know, like how [ __ ] short or how long the story is, you know, these were, you know, very eccentric people. Like when it was my turn to talk, you know, like little Walt and I was like the their love. It was like the great love of uh the women in my and my family and uh and so and I just I I knew that that again was a privilege and not a right to be given the microphone.

Yeah. You know, around this group of really great storytellers and I would tell my ass off storytelling ass off.

Uh and so I think that was always kind of a part of it. But I I really kind of stumbled into it again, you know. Well, when you moved to LA, did you move here specifically to

I did. I did. Yeah, I I did. I mean, I I also just wanted a really I wanted a great experience. I got an American Express in college, right? My freshman year. As soon as I got there, I got a like, god damn, I got mail like who who knows I'm going to school here. How do you guys know?

Well, I GOT A MAILBOX. And it was, you know, the four or five pieces of mail. And the, you know, the first thing that I opened was an American Express, an offer to join American Express. Yeah.

And, uh, and with this offer in 1989, [clears throat] uh, were, uh, two, uh, roundtrip tickets for $99 east of the Mississippi or $199 west of the Mississippi.

Yeah. You know, plane tickets were like $1,000, from Atlanta to [ __ ] Los Angeles, 1989. I mean, they were not cheap. Yeah.

And and I just saw it and I thought, "Oh, well, this experience is over." Like, I'm I'm going to use this voucher. I'm going to do my year in the school. I'm never going to uh spend a dollar on this card.

Yeah. Nothing. I'll just have it. I'll get it. Apply it. Yeah. And uh and then I'm going to use uh both of these vouchers. And it's exactly what I did uh a year later, year and a half later.

And who went with you? Nobody. Oh, no. I went on my own cuz you had two vouchers.

Well, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, because I had two. No, no, no. I used I used both of them. Um my dad

uh came with me when when I drove across country. Uhhuh. Um uh because he wanted to get his eyes on the big Yeah. Big city.

I wish you could have seen this photo. His dad is adorned head to toe in black leather. Turquoise on every single finger. He has photos of himself. People do ask him for photos everywhere he goes. He's a very interesting person. and he's visiting Walton in New York and people are asking for photos and oh well I have one signed. He has signed photos of himself. He has signed photos of Walton that he has signed.

Oh my. So that's who that's who we're You need to make a mug with his picture of that and it needs to say there's no this without me cuz that's also true.

And that's the end of the interview. T for tat. Yeah. Um, the ride really. So, I'm going to blow through a couple cuz I want to get to three things.

Yeah. Okay. The Shield is the first in my opinion from the outside. Seems like you're now in the big leagues. You're you have a steady paycheck. You're one of the season regulars. Is that the big

Yeah, I think so. I mean, I I I started, you know, I moved here when I was 19. I had $300 in my pocket and and I, you know, lived the way that I lived and worked how I worked. And then my what what gave me permission not to feel like I needed to work anymore even though I did for a little while afterwards was the apostle

with uh Robert Duval. Oh, and that was the wow. Okay, that's my hero. You It really is my hero. And um and so that that was really kind of the even though I was working, you know, like I think I made $21,000 on over 3 months for [ __ ] the next karate kid, you know, and it was like that was almost it was a lot of money, you know, for me that was a lot of money.

Well, clearly. Yeah. From 19 to 30 you are when you get on the shield. 29. Yeah.

29. You make it work. Yeah. I mean, you're on Beverly Hills 90210. Yeah. I did, you know, I did a I did a, you know, a fair amount of films, you know, but then I thought like Shanghai Noon was going to be the thing, you know what I mean? I had a pretty big role in Born Identity

that ultimately they decided to go with uh Gabriel Man instead and they just offered me another thing. So, I had like, you know, I had, you know, but people didn't know what the [ __ ] to do with me, but I had

no one was paying attention, you know, and I had some extraordinary experiences on location uh over that, you know, first 10 years of of my life. And and then The Shield happened Yeah. when I was 29 and nobody knew that it was going to be what it became.

86 episodes or something. 86. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, I think this is so fascinating. You had auditioned for Eastbound and Down. Yep.

And you didn't get it. Yeah. No. And the feedback was David Gordon Green who was a friend of mine um from the independent film circuit. Uh I just called and said, you know, Danny absolutely loved you, but uh but it just it might be a little too dangerous for what we're what we're doing. It might it might just be it's a little too

but yeah, not even chaotic. It's just like too scary. It's just a little scary. I said to Danny, I think I said to him, "Look, man, I think you need somebody to go toe-to-toe with you." You know what I mean? It's like, you know, whatever. I said, but um but uh and then

we have a lot of we have some friends in common. Leslie Bib actually uh had uh New Year's Eve party and and Danny and David were there and and I was there. Some of my she's my one of my best friends and with Sam and uh and and then that was kind of the beginning of a conversation.

I remember watching an interview with Todd Phillips and I thought he said the coolest thing. And he said, you know, for me, comedy that is good has to be very dangerous.

Oh, or it's not comedy to me. If you like look at his work, you're like, oh yeah, they're all like it's kind of high stakes. Everything's a little scary. I mean, you look at, you know, the hangover any like they go wild.

They go wild. When they're going to jump a van, they're going to jump a [ __ ] van.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're real stakes. Yeah. That's right. So then you get to come in and do vice principles,

you know? Uh call, they offered it. I was doing the Hateful Eight, you know, and uh we were in Colorado and um and uh and I read it and and I think we he talked about it like at at this party and uh and read it and thought, "Okay, this I know what to do with." And uh and so I just kind of did that and it was, you know, I don't know, three lines into it where I think he was like, "Okay, you're outrageously good in that." I couldn't believe the story of Hateful Eight. And if you would just indulge me and Monica, I think the audition for Hateful 8 is one of my favorite audition stories I've heard.

If it's the story that I think you're talking about, it was that was for Django.

Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. I'm so [clears throat] sorry. Duh. Yeah. But yeah, you get led to Yeah, the Yeah, the hateful. I'm sorry.

Yeah, no, no, no, no. That's easy. I can't believe you know what you [ __ ] know, honestly.

But it starts with a call to Rodriguez. So, I get this uh script, right, like everybody else in town. And uh and and I read it on the plane to New York and

uh standing with a friend and and and it's like it's one of the best things I've ever read in my life. He's only made nine, you know, so it's like uh whatever that, you know, the repeat kind of cast, it's a it's the golden ticket. It's a very, you know, small group of people. I just feel that way about Mike White, you know, and uh and the White Lotus. There there are a number of filmmakers that kind of have that stable of actors and if you can kind of get in that Christopher Guest, I mean,

yeah, [ __ ] unbelievable. But but Quinton is probably by far the most kind of in my book. But the So I I read it and I was like,

okay, I again I I got to get this. I don't have to get this. I just want to [ __ ] read these words. Yeah.

In front of this man. And um and so I I called uh Robert Rodriguez, who's a friend of mine, and uh and they're obviously really good friends. And I said, "Could you, man, I've never asked you for anything. Could you could you please, you know, text Quinton for me?" And and just say that I have this guy or whatever like to read. 10 minutes later, he texted back the text from Quinton, which was, "I love Gogggins. I absolutely I love his work, you know, and it was like, fuck." Okay. Well, then that's

Did you print it out and frame it? Like, unbelievable. My And then Yeah. And then

it's more than I wanted. Yeah. Yeah. We could ever expect, right? Yeah, it's always nice to live your life as if you're that you should be surprised if anyone has seen any [ __ ] thing done.

Yeah. Yeah. But to be seen by a hero just feels really crazy and then liked. Not just seen but liked and appreciated.

And then it just happened to coincide with um uh a really good friend of Quinton's was one of my wife's dear friends. And uh and she called and she said, "I just read the script and you got to be in this movie, man. You got to meet you're the guy like you're you're in this one of these guys."

Yeah. And uh and she said, "Uh, you know, like let's have a dinner with with Quinton."

And so like and I was like, I'm the guy that's like, "No, no, no. I don't want to do that. Like I can't like I don't want to I don't I don't ask anyone. Seem opportunistic is like that guy. go have this dinner, talk about everything but the but the move but the script, you know, until like the very end and I said, "Is this I think this is what you're saying. I think this is what you're saying and and how I felt whatever like a thousand people that probably said and he said he said, "Well, I want you to come in, you know, and uh and just like, you know, pick a few rolls or whatever and and so I did started kind of reading them and there it was." And he was like, "That's [ __ ] great, man." You know, uh that was that was fantastic. He's like, I you know, let's let's talk or you know, I'll I'll be speaking to you. And I said, I said, well, I'm not leaving.

I said, well, I'm not I mean, I didn't come here just to read these three roles. Like, I don't give a [ __ ] if I get this job, man. I just want to read your words in front of you. So, I want to read I want to read all of these roles.

Wow. I want to read Leo. I want to read Sam. I Yeah. Yeah. And and and and Kurt Russell was like, I just want to read this [ __ ] He's like, really? and and then he said, "Okay, let's do it." And then he read

everyone else in Wow. in the scenes like and would like just kind of do the whole movie basically.

I mean, we we we worked for like an hour, hour and a we did a lot. I mean, like some big big seinal scenes, you know what I mean? And I and I just think that, you know, like just just the like unadulterated enthusiasm and and love for what he puts out in the world and and his words. And at the end of it, it was like, you know, [ __ ] really good to see you, man. Can't wait for the next time.

This will cross my mind on my deathbed. Yeah. Thank you, man. And then and then, yeah, you get the call like, I don't know, a couple of months went by or whatever, and it's like, okay, buddy, you know, come down to come down to New Orleans and and and play with us.

What if you're like, I can't I don't want it. I just came to just do that one thing. I don't really want to be in the movie.

You can't top what happened. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But thanks. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

I imagine you deal with this. The characters are so [ __ ] different. Like I may have seen Vice Principles, but if I don't follow Show Business, I don't realize that's the guy from Hateful 8. They're so different. And if I fell in love with Uncle Baby Billy, I'm not putting that together with The Shield. Like,

thank you, man. There's something. It's almost probably a bit of a an Achilles, which is like you I think you deserve to be the biggest star in the world, but I think the work is so unique and different. I don't know if people are connecting the dots because now I'm a hyper fan and I didn't even think, oh right, I gotta go and watch I went and watched Justified. I had never seen it, but I'm like, I'll go for Gogggins. God damn, he's great in that again. But I watched Hateful Eight a couple months ago and I was like in a in a sea of the most talented people. It that's the performance in the movie. It's incredible. I can't believe you went from a a smaller role in Django and then got called to the big leagues and did what you did in that movie is [ __ ] nuts, dude.

Thank you, man. Oh my god. It's so impressive, man. I'm so happy for you that you got to go into Tarantino's world and have him trust you with that much and then to [ __ ] score touchdown after touchdown.

Well, look, I mean, I I think I think maybe you feel this way. A lot of people uh in this business and outside of this business listen to your podcast, right? And um I think for for so many of us kind of coming up, I mean, we're from a different generation, but the barriers to entry, the gatekeepers to this experience, it's like every day you're you're not you're just you're not even trying to [ __ ] get to like base camp one on Mount Everest. You're just like trying to get up that little [ __ ]

hill that you're going to fall down. Yeah, that's right. You're just trying to get a flight to [ __ ] Yeah, the airport Nepal.

Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. At that point, you really are at as it's it's it's it's as far as you could have gone. If you if you feel like I do about Tarant,

that is it is that it's exactly how I feel. But when whenever you see someone that's like that's been around for a long time and just kind of like Rockwell or like Crudup or like I mean even like Garrett Garrett Dill Hunt like like just all of these [ __ ] people that have been around for like a really long time and we've been around for a long time and you just see like consistently kind of good work like over a long time and and it's like oh wow. I mean, Pedro, you know, Pascal has been doing great work for such a long time and

and and then and then it just it just it's like, wow, okay, there's one for the good guys like, right? It's not a there is no limit on their staying power, right? Like this is

they're inoculated by talent and wisdom, right? And uh and choices and um and so the guys which I'm I'm also a fan of, I won't name any names, but you know, we we know them. the the people that were if you were an envious person which I I'm I'm really not accept other people's careers I I really don't look in other lanes but the the people in my 20s for a moment was like [ __ ] I wish I could you know

but I I wouldn't trade my walk for oh you know those three years or and I think all you probably wouldn't either you know I I've been walking the road that I've been walking for a very long time and

I would argue it's preferred I agree when you're young if you come out and you just you drop right into the World Series. It's hard to appreciate. It's hard to conceptualize. It's hard to integrate. It's hard to process.

It's hard to stay and to kind of just keep walking in the back door. Yeah. And then you leave and you're like, "Who was that guy that was at?" You know, it's so preferred for your life story.

I agree. Your own narrative self, right? It's It's such the way to do it. Yeah. I think so. You don't remember this, but the first time I met you, very first time I met you, it was nothing more of like a like a

hi like a hey, but it was really just me across a room like silently thinking like [ __ ] you. [ __ ] this [ __ ] guy.

Why story? cuz I it was it was for an audition and it was just the two of us in this room and uh and I and I walked in and I looked at you and you were sitting behind this desk and it was like a room with like chairs. It was kind of a room like they had us kind of waiting. Maybe it was I don't know like a second call back or something. I don't know. But uh but I walked in and was like oh this [ __ ] guy [snorts] you know this [ __ ] you know I just felt like it ain't my day you know. Oh, wow.

I am I don't know this. Well, it was so scary. Uh, no. EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH. OH.

OH MY GOD. With Dane. Dane. And And Dne kind of came in. I don't know if you knew him, but there was a I don't remember, but there was some interaction that it was just like this easy kind of like [ __ ] oh, these guys are like,

oh, that is so funny. possible the story but but it was I don't remember where it was but I remember the room and I remember where you were sitting and then No way.

Yeah. And then uh and then you know seeing the movie kind of when it came out I was like yeah you know what yeah it was his

Yeah for sure. That's an ego boost for you. Should be. Yeah. Well I'm just Yeah. And yeah if I were you I would hate me. No, I mean with this [ __ ] I was on I just felt like it was just like like you kind of walk in one like oh well you know what I'm still gonna have fun

and I did I want to see the version of the movie with you. I don't know man. Oh my god that's crazy. That just blew my mind. Okay last thing before White Lotus was is is of course Righteous Gemstones.

Okay. Yeah. Uncle Baby Billy. Yeah. Again I see all your [ __ ] out of order. So I first saw Righteous.

Yeah. And I was like, who who the [ __ ] is this guy putting Uncle Baby Billy and Chris are just obsessed with the show. I'm writing emails to Danny, who I barely know, but I have to tell him after every episode. [snorts] The pilot of that I'm like, did Scorsese [ __ ] direct this pilot? This is a comedy. Look at these shots.

Yeah. Who [ __ ] Uncle Baby Billy? We We fall so in love with you that we then Well, he was in Vice Principles. We learned We go back. I watch Vice Principles just cuz I'm now on my Walton Gogggins train and I'm like, "Oh my god, he's this and this." I don't really have a question other than just what I wanted. We just finished the fourth season.

It's really good and and I I'll I'll put this out there. I read the the first episode. I can't tell you anything that it's about, but the first episode of season 4, and I will I will and I'm going to go on record of saying this as a piece of writing. If I had read that in uh the Atlantic, I think the [ __ ] would be uh nominated for a Pulitzer. Wow.

You know, really what he's what he's saying at this stage of his exploration in in that world. And everybody obviously has a great um arc and a great story. Uh but but but Baby Billy will have the summer [ __ ] summer 2025 [ __ ] hit. I'm going to tell you right now, whatever you're wearing right now, come [ __ ] June or whatever when you're bathing suit, you will be singing this [ __ ] song. I promise you.

It's good, y'all. It's really And it says a lot about a lot. It's cool. I guess my one question about Vice Principles and Righteous is if you had to guess at a percentage,

what percentage is you guys riffing and what percentage is on the page? It feels impossibly organic.

98% is on the page. No [ __ ] No [ __ ] He's so brilliant. Edy Patterson can [ __ ]

She can She can let it rip. Do [ __ ] anything. Yes, Adam, you know, Adams can can [ __ ] do that. Michaela Watkins can [ __ ] do that. Cordy can do. It's not my thing, but I will I understand where the story is and I understand. Okay, these are five or six tangents that I can go down that I believe are a part of me and not and turn itself, you know, turn yourself over to that and see kind of where that where that takes you.

Yeah. But he realized that about me very early on that that it's the words on the page that is liberating to me. Right. And uh and so and then we you know he carried that in into

Righteous Gemstones and I and I you know I I I think I I'll I'll work with him for the for the rest of of my life.

If there was a career to envy it, it' be yours because you're in the Tarantino stuff. But I would say of the television shows, my favorite comedy is definitely Righteous Gemstones. I think my favorite kind of big huge action thing is Fallout. I love that show.

Thanks, man. And then my very favorite both of ours kind of social commentary charactery

deliciousness is White Lotus. These are like you're in the three [ __ ] shows that are my favorite.

The two previous seasons have been so good. I have I think we all had so much anxiety when season 2 came around cuz I'm like, how on earth are they? that hotel manager in season one like what who's going to pick up that slack and then it delivered.

Yeah. His like social commentary and what he's able to tackle which I feel like

you're not allowed to and he does perfectly. Yeah. Just the notion last season you have these two couples and these two are what? They cheat. They're shitty and this is the good one. And then as you're playing with it, you're like, well, I'm not sure which one I'd rather be a part of.

That's right. Oh, here's the perfect guy. Says all the right things. Why isn't she horny for him? We got to deal with that. That's a real thing.

Yeah. It's so brave and awesome. So, it is. Yeah. I mean, and and no one writes an existential crisis the way that he does. And he uses uh wealth gives him permission, I think, to parody these people.

Yeah. And to, you know, and to make them real simultaneously and to to say because these these these situations do happen,

you know, to people outside of this very specific economic kind of section of society that he's he explores.

Yeah. But um but yeah and and I I you know if if this is his words not mine if first season was about money if the second season was about sex

you know this season is about religion it was everything that I had hoped it would be and um there there are so many things that that that happened over the course of this experience that I'm not at liberty to really talk about but I can tell you

a project to promote actually it is yeah it's like with a lot of projects but that one in particular right I think they do actually kill you there's a body floating somewhere but I felt like I had my own apocalypse now

like that I was Willard in a boat going upstream to meet Captain Curts which was also me because of the real life or the story you were embedded

the story the story because of the story that I was telling does it help that you're you're in Thailand for 6 months living at the actual hotel you're working in

yeah living living at the hotel and sometimes, you know, the hotel was completely bought out, you know, so it was just us and then other times, you know, they weren't able to do that.

So, you're you're literally checking in, you know, as an actor next to guests who you're

are there on vacation. Yeah, they're actually there on vacation. You're like peeking at the hotel pool going like, "Oh, wow. That's that character."

Yeah. It's a weird fourth wall being broken in a way. Yeah. There there is a um I I've seen two episodes now and and it's really [ __ ] good.

Oh, I cannot believe and it's similar, but it's different and and I and I and I can say that um that my journey in in this world, it's something that hasn't been seen or explored by Mike in other seasons.

It's a new experience. Um but everyone uh uh just [ __ ] kills it really. Is it hard being there though for six months? Oh,

[ __ ] yeah, man. I mean, I've been home 11 days this year, you know, really in success, it becomes harder, you know, and that's the thing I don't think people realize really is uh

cuz you're having to turn down now really great opportunities. I mean, you're just away from home for a long time, right? It's lonely.

Yeah. You know, like uh and that's what I don't think people anticipate that. It's like, "Oh my god, I'm getting all of these opportunities and it's incredible." But at the end of the day, you go back to uh, you know, a house or your hotel room,

you know, you're you're alone, you know, and uh, which I'm good at. And if and if I'm having a problem with it, you know, I know other people are. And I and I think, you know, people experience that. People, everyone went through their own crisis over the course of of this experience,

which is maybe helpful for the project. Well, and I, you know, and it's a it's a story that kind of uh can induce that experience, certainly for me, you know, and the way that I approached this way of storytelling. It was a [ __ ] incredible experience.

That was everything. It had everything in it, you know, all soup to nuts. And um I can't wait for you to see it. And I can't wait to hear what you think about when you do see it.

Oh, yeah. I'm so excited. Maybe we'll come back on and uh at the at the end of this thing

when you get the call to join that cast. It was interesting because they, you know, they were doing season 2 and I I don't I don't, you know, I didn't know Mike, but we had a uh you know, we have friends in in common,

like we all do, you know, at this point. Uh and uh and I remember my agent saying, "Well, you should write a letter to Mike, you know, season two." And it's like, "No, man. I ain't that guy.

I ain't doing that. I'm just not that guy. And I I didn't they didn't tell me that that it was even conversations were even happening or that it was getting close. And and uh and then I was out at dinner. I was out here. We were doing press for early press for Fallout. And I went out to dinner with my agents, which I hadn't seen in a while. And and they said "Listen congratulations." I said, "For what?" And then they said, "You know, Mike wants you to do White Lotus season 3 and I just started [ __ ] balling started shaking at the table

really because I felt like it's a world I I I I could help him tell his story for a white so it's like there's like you know I I suppose if you know I would have felt that way if I don't know any other show or movie that you're excited about or filmmaker but it's when you when you understand like like Quinton I felt like I can tell his story. I know how to tell his story.

Yeah. And and I feel that I felt I felt that way with with Mike and and a and a few of the filmmakers that I've gotten an opportunity to work with over the course of my career. This is one of them. And it was I walked outside and called my wife.

That's amazing. My last question to land the plane is I also follow you on Instagram.

I also know Cordre goes with you to like Greece or Italy. You guys will do like a proper summer in another country. Mhm.

It seems like your life that you're putting as much effort into your actual life being as artistic as your work life.

Absolutely. And I'd imagine some people might think that just happens, but I imagine you got to actually approach your life just like you do a role in something.

Wow. Never had anyone say that. Yeah. Yeah. I think that it's with intention, right? and and uh and so uh this is a this happens to be a very long stretch. You know, we we we sold our home in Los Angeles and we moved across the country and we bit off a big a big maybe a little bit more than we could chew. And it's like, okay, I got to go to work. Even though I I've never really done anything that just for the for the money or that I I'm not proud of or that I didn't want to do. But um I I got offered a movie right when the the [clears throat] strikes were kind of h you know being talked about and uh and I had this this trip planned and and uh and they they said we'll offer you this amount of money and I said thank you but you know I no thank you. And they said okay what about this amount of money?

And they said thank you but no thank you. They said what would it take? I said there is no amount of money. I'm sorry. And that and that and that may people your your listeners or other actors may say [ __ ] that guy. You know what? I hadn't seen my kid in a long time and I had seen my friends and that [ __ ] time with my kid. It means more to me than anything. We're going to do that again at the end this year.

And that if you can't with intention whatever you can afford. I mean, my mom did it in Panama City Beach, Florida in a [ __ ] tent, you know, but it was like that is time and uh and it's far too precious at this stage of the game. And um

and it is something that you can never get back and and I I have shame and and remorse and regret about the time that I have been away

like any anyone does, you know, with their with their children. And yeah, it's with intention and and we're going to live the [ __ ] out of life. Strap yourself in. Oh,

strap yourself. Buckle the [ __ ] up. Let's all end on this. Strap in. Let's strap in.

Thank you so much, GoDaddy era. Um, all right. You got a Super Bowl commercial. Let's just add that. This is going to come out after. Yeah, that's exactly right.

Go back and watch it on YouTube. Gogggins goggles has Super Bowl commercial. Super welld deserved.

Go Daddy Arrow. And hopefully people will be watching the commercial. God, you look great. You look so [ __ ] chic. You look just You know what? If you can imagine like every day just feeling like opra ski.

I love it. I'm going to wear them out. What I'm thinking, Monica, is our long-standing debate about whether or not I could fly an airplane if the pilot went down.

Sure. You with those goggles on. I'm not sure who should be flying the airplane. You or me?

That is quite the compliment. You look like a professional in any field with those goggles on. Hey, you know what? What a [ __ ] What an honor, man.

What an honor for us. What a we've been trying to get you in for years. Oh, thank you. Well, this is a very you're so generous uh of yourselves and so giving of your time and such great listeners and um and and thank you.

What a pleasure, man. Just loving you from afar. So, the fact that we're sitting together is such a blast for me. I adore you, Walton. This has been a blast. Thank you.

What a joy. What a joy. He is an armare expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank god Monica's here. She's going to let him have the facts.

Oh, look at our trophy. Look at our trophy. That's a cool trophy. Very um space age.

Yeah. Um it's meant to be hung. Okay. It has this at the bottom. I guess it looks like a quotation above someone's head.

It does. I'm holding up a square armchair expert with a shepard Spotify 500 million streams plaque. We were awarded gold status. I was told gold status. I need to start this fact check by saying my most deepest thank you. I've never been more grateful than last night

I was asked to be one of Bill's 10 or 11 stops on his book tour. Yeah. Awesome.

And it was at a live event, the car. I know. Some beautiful theater. Ooh. Where?

In San Francisco. Oh, nice. Yes. Sorry if you already said that. No, I don't think I did.

Okay. For the listener, I didn't say that. Okay. It's not our show, right? Yeah.

It's not handheld mics. I I can't go out and ahead of time and warm everything up and then bring Bill out. There's like a whole thing, you know? It's their show,

right? and there'll be a video and another woman introduce us for a while and then we sit down. I'm in the wrong side. Suffice to say, it it just wasn't like one of our shows.

Sure. Um, so I guess they gave me not a ton. I'm not going to exaggerate. Maybe like 20% nerves.

Of course, it's different. And it's like I don't know if it's all people there to see Bill Gates and they're learning who I am and they don't understand I'm going to have a sense of humor. Whatever. All this to say,

um, soon as we sat down, I said, "Are there any arm cherries here?" And Monty, the whole place was arm cherries.

And I immediately felt so comfortable and confident and relaxed. That's awesome.

And I was so grateful. I couldn't believe how grateful I was. I was like, "Fucking armchair show up."

They really do show up. Yeah. And you know, I had my whole family. Yes. Your original family.

The OFA. Yep. Your sister, your brother, and your mom. That's right. The original crew. The original four.

The Fab Four. Was that lovely? It was lovely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um and they got to meet Bill for a while.

Yeah. And um my brother has been obsessed with Bill since he was a kid. Really?

Oh, yeah. My brother was very into computers. I didn't know that. Yes. Oh, how special.

Obsessed with Bill Gates. his whole life. Okay. Even when I was talking to him before the event, I was saying like, "Oh my god, you got to read the book. It's so funny. There are so many funny stories in this book about him being 13 and showing up places with a briefcase and business suits on and making products and the whole thing is so it sounds like a cartoon."

Yeah. And he was like, "Oh, yeah. My favorite thing is that his mom said, "What are you doing in here in his in his bedroom?" And he said, "Uh, I'm thinking you should try it."

[clears throat] And my brother just knew all this stuff I had just learned in the book that he somehow had already known. Anyh who, they got to chat for quite a long time and it was a very special experience for my brother.

That's great. And yeah, it was it was sweet. And then yesterday we gave it to San Francisco straight up the Heiney.

We in 4 hours we saw that whole city. Monica, nice. We saw Alcatraz. We saw the Golden Gate Bridge, the Bay Bridge. We went through Chinatown. We went through North Beach. We went to Lumbard Street. We got on the trolley and ra rode the full loop of the trolley hanging out the side, Monica.

So, is that something you do with your original family? Cuz I don't think you do that with your family.

No, my brother had never been to San Francisco, shockingly. But, so yeah, seeing Alcatraz and all that stuff, the Golden Gate Bridge, it's all very exciting. Trolley, Riceeron, the San Francisco tree.

Oh, full house. Ding ding ding. Lombard Street. Do you know Lombard Street? I've heard. I don't know.

It's the one that's really twisty that goes down the extremely se steep. And when my brother and I were children, there was a show called You Can't Do This on Television. No, that's Nickelodeon.

It was called That's Incredible. Doug Democus, the Wheelie King, rode a dirt bike, a wheelie down Lombard Street.

Oh, never putting it down. Rode over cars on a wheelie. Oh, that sounds bad. was a very memorable seinal moment on television for us. And so to be on Lumbar where our hero Doug Democus had done that sweet wheelie and then [clears throat] some armcheries were in a 1960s VW microbus coming down Lumbar Street and started hollering out the window.

Sometimes people shout out the window in their armcheries. This happens. Um, and I just want to say to anyone who does that to me, which has happened a few times,

don't think I'm a [ __ ] if you get shook a little bit. Yeah. Or my first reaction is like really

twist eye rolly. Not eye rolly like don't don't hurt me. Yeah. Don't hurt me. Don't hurt me.

Don't hurt me, please. Scared and angry. Um that's just my reaction. But then you let you let it in. But then they say like I'm listening or I listen or I'm whatever and then I I

stopped listening or they I don't like it anymore. What happened? He yelled up.

Should have never done video. Yeah. Recently a guy did that. He honked and then he I looked over with a mean face and then he pointed he he was listening at that moment. He like raised the volume and that was exciting. But

I got scared when you thought you just when you just pointed it looked like he was pointing at his crotch but it was obvious it was the

arm would never do that. I know he wanted but I'm saying god [snorts and clears throat]

it was clear that he was pointing to his stereo. Yeah. Okay. Great. Cuz when you just did it it wasn't clear.

Okay. [clears throat] All right. Okay. Anyway, so go on. Continue in Lombard Street Chinatown.

Italy Alcatraz. That [ __ ] trolley made us so happy. The cable card. Fun because that's really

classic. I just said the cable card. The cable card. It didn't It didn't read. You know, I just think it's nuts. There's a cable running under the street that they put in in 1870 that's just going in a circle. Also had some great meals.

Ooh, really great meals. San Francisco has great cuisine. Oh my goodness. In fact, one of these places if you're there, I insist you go called Cavalere. It's done up. It's a bar, restaurant, tavern, and it's done as an English hunting lodge. And the decor was

decor really works for me. For everyone and aesthetics are important. I guess I should admit something really gross.

Okay. Um, distasteful. Yeah, just bad. But since we are honest here, when you when you started your

back check about um wanting to say thank you. Yeah. Uh I thought you were saying thank you to me.

Oh, I can thank you as well. I thought because I thought where the story was going [snorts]

was that it's so much easier together. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's true. That's totally true. I should have said that. Now I'm sad I didn't say that. No.

Yeah. I always walk out with you. Yeah. So, Tatula, I mean, if we eat a big turd together, it'll be together,

right? I thought maybe that's what was coming. And then I thought, oh, it's not maybe it's a different Thank you. Um, also to me because

cuz what? Because what was the second reason? I'll probably agree with it, too.

Because um cuz you were gone and you, as you said, you took your sis sweet sister

who who runs this household. Uhhuh. Yeah. Keeps it in check. And Kristen was at

a table read yesterday. I don't know if I'm allowed to say that, but I think it came out.

Yeah. It's been announced for the show. Yeah. Season two. Bill inquired about it

cuz he's a dad. He's a dad. I tried to explain that to him. They didn't he didn't understand that why that that's why he liked it. But I tried.

It's hard to explain that to people. But anyway, he so she was at a table. So she was at Fox. She was far away and Anna was with her.

Yeah. And Lincoln had a tummy ache. Oh no. So did you have to rescue her? So I went to pick her up.

Was that your first time at that school? Yes. And isn't it beautiful? First of all, it's beautiful. We [snorts] won't say what it is, even though you probably already have on here. I haven't.

It's beautiful. But I was lost. Yep. There's It's like big. It's like a mini UCLA.

There's a campus. and I was lost and I kept having to ask like teens. But they're so confident. Did you So what my I think the first thing is you're like, "Wow, this is a really pretty campus." That quickly pales in comparison to how palpable the confidence is of all those gals running around.

Yeah. They're they're on they're living out loud. But yeah, so I kept having to ask all these teens. One teen really was like the middle school's over there. Like she was mad at me. Middle school

and I was like I'm cool. Like I have a podcast. Do you listen to podcasts? I must have stopped three different people and I could not figure it out. But I I eventually

I never got her. She's still there. Did she get home? And then you know she picked me up or

she grabbed swung by on her motorcycle and grabbed me cuz I was lost. But it was so cute. And she said, "Oh, I thought you would be in San Francisco or whatever. I thought you I thought you'd be with dad." And I said, "Oh, no. Oh, it's just dad. He She was like, "He he kicked you out?"

Oh, Jesus. And I said, "No, that's not really how it works." No benefit of the doubt then. She went straight to I kicked you out.

She did. I said, "Yeah, you should punch him." I didn't want to tell her that her appendix might explode and that's what was go maybe going on.

Yeah, sure. That was your first though. That was my instinct. So, I stuck around in case it didn't explode.

It didn't. It didn't. She have a poop and then feel I didn't ask. Yeah, I'll find out tonight.

Okay, [snorts] my first question. Involved about the poops. Did you get that thing out?

Did you get it? I had one really special moment before this show. They said, "We want to do a viral video with them and I was like, of course." So, we played this game.

Heads up. And then what's funny is it was test on things from the book. Oh. But they put in Catcher and the Ry, which wasn't in the book. Okay.

But he said something and then I got it. I was it was on my head. Yeah. And um he goes, "Was that in the book?" And I go, "I don't think that was in the book. Is that one of your favorite books?" And he goes, "Oh, yeah." And I go, "Oh, it's my absolute favorite book." And then we're like, we talked for two seconds and I go, "Is that why you named your daughter Phoebe?" And he goes "Yeah."

Oh, cute. And I go, "I from the second I read that book, I was like, if I have a daughter, it's going to be Phoebe. And it felt very connected. I really liked it. I had had the same exact

Wow. Kadums and I had that bonding moment, too. I think a handful of men have named their daughters Phoebe because they fell in love with that character.

You know, you didn't do that, right? Is that not my firstborn's name? I'm so sorry to tell you.

Maybe. I'm so sorry. Yeah. Well, that's because we thought we were having a boy if you recall.

Sure. Now you know you have another Delta could have ended up being a Phoebe. Yeah, she would have been such a good Phoebe.

Yes, she would have. That name really would have worked for her. It would. Although Delta really works pretty good for her, too. Yeah,

I can't imag Yeah, maybe if I have one, I'll name it Phoebe. That's a ding ding ding. People have been pointing out in the comments that my new overindexing is Delta.

Oh, which is 100% true. Yeah. Not Delta, my daughter. Oh, the distance between two things. The gap.

Yeah. Yeah. When I talk about I'll say delta and people are really noticing it and I guilty is charged.

Okay. Yeah. I love it. It's very It's very efficient. It is. Instead of saying the difference between or a gap between.

Yeah. Actually, yeah, I guess you do do that. I do it a lot. Yeah. I really got it from Formula 1.

They they they use Delta a lot in Formula 1. What did you do while I was gone? Um,

other than get lost at Lincoln School. There's just something about being at school.

Yeah. Yeah. I like it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I went to In-N-Out this weekend. You did?

Yeah. You got animal style fries and a and a what? A single? And I got um No, I got

I'm going to blow my nose. Okay. Sorry. That's okay. I've um Have you blown today?

I've lost some progress. Oh, all right. It's It hasn't returned to the insanity, but it's also

Okay. Did you slip up on your trip um with blowing? Yeah, probably. Yeah. Hotel room.

Well, I bring tissues over to the bed every night to have them ready. And then when they're there, then I kind of got to use them. But I can't risk that I will make it without blowing my nose and have to get up. It's there's a lot of stuff to consider.

I know. Did anything else interesting happen this Oh my god. Super Bowl. Oh, dude.

What was your favorite commercial? Uh the Nike women's commercial. That was awesome playing Led Zeppelin.

I bought the shirt. Oh god, that was very cool commercial. Mhm. That was probably the best. But man, I love William Defoe.

I do. I do too. I mean with Catherine O'Hara. I know. That was a good pairing. But he's just the pod. Go check out his episode.

He's so unique. What a gift he is. He is. He's a blessing. Love him. Yeah. I loved that.

He's a blessing. He is. Um Yeah, that was good. He's like in a Wes Anderson movie, even if he's in a commercial.

That was great. I couldn't hear all of them. Yeah. I didn't see most of them. I started it an hour and a half late.

Oh, you did? I did. Wow. Yeah. And then fast forwarded through everything to catch up.

Okay. not needing to catch up as it turned out cuz nothing changed. Yeah. But the only thing I cared about really really delivered which was the halftime show.

Oh, the halftime show. Oh my god. I loved it, but I definitely thought his mic was too low. I was having the hardest time hearing him like the first four songs.

Well, we couldn't hear, but it was it was a bad mix. It was the TV. No, because when I watched it on YouTube, I could hear everything. Oh, really?

Yeah, you should watch it on YouTube. I wonder if on YouTube they clean that up a bit. But on the broadcast, I was like, his vocals need to be way up.

Barely hearing the words on YouTube. Yeah, I thought it was so good and so well done and so smart as he is. All of those things. I don't know. I just thought it was so powerful. I loved it. And uh there's all these like hidden things.

Okay. What were some of the the the hides? What clues? What were what was in there?

Well, did you realize you probably these probably aren't clues? They're probably obvious, but stage was a PlayStation cuz it

the whole thing is like game the game. He's like playing this game with Drake. Uhhuh.

Also, when Samuel Jackson is out there, it's kind of I thought he was incredible.

Incredible. Uncle Sam. Oh my god, he was so incred. That's That's a hard lift. He's got to pop in and out. Perfect timing.

I know. Finish before he's got a start. That was complicated. Yeah. And he was great.

He was perfect. But yeah, he was almost more Kendall Kamar than Kendrick Lamar.

No, don't say cut that. No. Oh my god. No. Sam Jackson's like the original Kendrick Lamar.

Well, he I'm sure that's why he was there. Yeah, he of course is iconic. Um, but

they have the same vibe and spirit. Yeah. Yeah. But the just the message there's no tap dancing. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. We're not playing [clears throat] this game. Yeah, that was great. Serena.

Yeah, I didn't You didn't see that? You have to rewatch that. Serena Williams. She sang.

She came out and was cry dancing. Oh, I didn't see that. You got You I thought you were saying the female singer was Serena.

No, that's Scissor. She's huge. I was like, I don't think I think you got close, but I I don't think it's

I know what I'm talking about. You do you know more than I do for sure. Um, I didn't see Serena Crib.

I definitely need to rewatch. It's I had it very loud and I got um I got goosebumps many times. Several times

when it's the American flag and he's standing in the middle of it and they're all all of the dancers in the arrangement are black.

Uhhuh. Just so powerful. Really powerful. It is. It really was. I love him. I he I want him to come on this show so badly.

Yes, me too. I had to get brought up to speed by Tim Lovstead about the beef. About the beef. Yeah.

I I try I told you a little bit about the beef. I know about the pedophile part.

Yeah. I know about the lawsuits. I didn't know that he called Drake a colonizer. I didn't know that whole

aspect song. Yeah. Yeah. And that Drake had called him accused him of making slave music. Did you know that part? No, but I know Drake. So, I guess there was this huge like

And Drake is rich. I heard Drake is rich. Drake was like grew up rich. I heard.

Oh, yeah. He's from Canada. You know, you know, Drake is [snorts] I have zero opinion on Drake. I just want to say that out loud. I have zero feelings.

I have zero feelings about Drake except apparently, and there's a daily on this.

Well, there is. Okay. Um Drake likes these beefs. like he starts them. It's part of

they're good for a business, sure, but this one really got out from under Uh-huh. And Kendrick

isn't really ever the type to get involved in these types of things. He kind of like which Drake also calls out think you're so

few beefs. Kendrick. Yeah. He's also in a beef with um Andrew Schultz. Oh, did you not see that?

Oh, interesting. Oh, yeah. Really? And Andrew did not at all cowtow. He just went straight to war with them. And I was like, "This is crazy." Um, you'll we'll have to watch all the videos.

He has a line about don't let a white comedian make fun of our women or something.

Oh. And then so And it's believed that he's referencing Andrew. And Andrew then comes out and says he's just not terribly worried about Kendrick. and oh you then he his his attack back is like oh here's the dudes you've supported who have raped women and who have beaten women I don't think I'm your dude so that was his push back and

yeah got saucy well and I [clears throat] thought boy Andrew you're pissing off

that's stupid of him a very very dieh hard fan base but uh yeah he's got at least those two gone but back to Drake

yeah okay but in the hip-hop world yeah He doesn't really do this because he kind of is Drake says it too like you put your you think you're so great but you think you're this like poet.

Yeah. Yeah. Which he is. Anywh who Drake is rich and very popular and like you know blends. He's not straight up straight up hiphop.

Oh right. Yeah. He's more poppy mixed with hip-hop. Exactly. Club music. Yeah. So people think he's a phony. I found myself with [snorts] that tension of loving a good [ __ ] you song and then knowing the better part of myself doesn't like this.

Yeah, me too. But I in this case I don't. You went for it. I'm like, "Oh yeah, I'm getting charged up by this."

Yes. And obviously that's not my aim in life is to like be pumped when someone else is telling another person to [ __ ] off.

Me either effectively. Well, the pro Okay, I agree. Unless there's a huge class distinction, of course, then I do enjoy. Regardless,

yeah, I am with you. I don't like enjoy a diss track or a beef. I've never I've never been into a beef before,

right? This is your first beef. This is my first my first foray into beef. The world of beef.

But now that I listen to the daily and I know how many So, it was like this big weekend, I guess, where they were like back and forth. They were they kept putting out songs in retaliation to one another. At the end

in the audience after the halftime show it says game over, right? Cuz he won, right?

And you know he did win that song that his diss track won five Grammys, right? Like sorry I feel bad. I actually do feel kind of bad for Drake,

but he did start it. I don't even know who he started it according to the Daily. Okay. All right. I'm nervous. I don't want to be on either side of a

Why? Cuz I don't I don't ever want to I don't want to join a team when the half the other people hate the team. I don't I don't want to be on a team that's hated by half of people. It's not my desire in life.

I know if I care deeply about this feud between Drake and Kendrick. Yeah, I might. But I I don't care at all. These are both very rich, talented dudes. I don't think there's an oppressed version person,

I think. Yeah. I mean, they did come from very different backgrounds. Like I don't It'd be like you

who came from a certain background, you probably feel like you have more of an entitlement to talk about that and rap

about that than somebody who didn't experience it. But again, I don't even know enough about Drake. Is he rapping about the hood? He raps about bling.

Okay. Oh, since we're talking about pop culture, which we rarely do and I I tend to, for whatever reason, be allergic to.

Um, do you know the Kanye thing? Yes. So, step one was arriving at the Grammys uninvited with the wife who was then naked.

Okay. That was event number one. And then he had a he paid for his own Super Bowl commercial.

Yes. Which directed people to go to his go to easy.com. Yeah. And if you went to easy.com, there was a single item for sale

and it was a shirt with a swastika on it. Yep. I mean, this is as absolutely mad as conceivable.

This whole I'm dying to know. It's so bad. I'm dying to hear his thought process. I'm just dying to understand

how he got himself to a point where he paid for a Super Bowl commercial. It's Jewish people. He says it. It's not. We don't have to read through the lines. The fact that that's not illegal, I don't like I don't Although now I guess there's talk about the NFL

maybe suing him because when he did the commercial that wasn't up. He had real items on his site until the next day he changed it.

So I guess there is some conversation about him being sued for that. I I I don't It's

what I want to know. So embarrassing. What I want to know to [snorts] be clear is the same thing I wanted to talk to Roseanne about. He knows this is a very damaging move.

I don't know. I don't know what it's like passing a point of no return. It's been like that though. He keeps doing stuff like this.

I mean, they're escalating in severity. He he wasn't previously, to my knowledge, selling swastika shirts.

No, but he was he was saying openly he hates Jewish people and he's like um he's getting close to being a neo-Nazi.

He's a neo Okay. Right. He's a black neo-Nazi. Yes, he is. How does a rational at one time seemingly

savvy and rational person end up here? Other than just the obvious bipolar. Yeah, he is. He's bipolar. Yes. As I was reading something today, like that's that for people who are like, "Well, he's just he's bipolar," which she is.

Yeah. 95% of bipolar people don't aren't hatefilled. They're not using it to hurt people. And

and if you found out Hitler was bipolar, you wouldn't go like, "Oh, that makes sense." Yeah.

I have a whole theory I'm not entitled to have about Roseanne, which is I think the racism aside was racist. I acknowledge it.

But that's just one of many historic things she has done at the height of her uh popularity to really alienate everyone and test whether they love her. Like the the famous um

Well, that's you that that's you deciding and test what like that's you being very introspective and saying you think it's because deep down she's testing whether

Yeah. I think like um when she sang the national anthem intentionally poorly and annoyingly and she pissed everyone off and it's like the patriotism flared up and she's brilliant.

So, she's too smart to not know that wasn't a good move. So, then I wonder what story is she confirming by doing this thing? Like, well, how could she, as smart as she was, convince herself that I'm going to do this? And I think it's this

you don't believe all these people that love you really love you. And then your brain comes up with this bizarre test of that.

Yeah. To find out to confirm you're right basically. But no one really loves you. They love this fake version of you they see on TV or hear in music.

I have to believe that's going on with Kanye. I don't think so. You don't think so? I I I appreciate that you really give people I don't think you're giving him the benefit of the doubt, but like I I think

I think a bunch of things have gone terribly wrong in his life that he's the author of No Question.

Yeah. He's he creates chaos. Uh-huh. And I think you and probably many people feel like there's a empathetic reason behind that.

Well, I just think there's a reason other than that Kanye West was born evil and now we're seeing it and he hid it for 40 years.

But do you think and but you don't think anyone's born evil? And I don't either. But I think people become I do think there are a there are people in this world who become irredeemable. They become so so driven to chaos and destruction and um

yeah I I'm not making an argument that he should be redeemed. No, I would hope Yeah. No,

I'm not making an argument that people who have committed crimes should not go sit in prison, but I am working with an assumption that something happened to them that now resulted in this. I think there are serial killers and I think there's narcissists and I think there's sociopaths who enjoy and there's there are sadists who like to hurt things. I I know those people exist.

Yeah. But um I think a lot of non mental pathology people do really weird stuff that I'm quite curious why they would ruin their lives this in this way.

Like this is a person who's ruined their life. Oh yeah. But over and over like it's not keeps doing it. He keeps causing harm.

Does it seem like a tragedy to you? Cuz it seems like a tragedy to me. It seems like a waste to me.

Yeah. But I don't I don't think of it as a tragedy. I think what he's doing to people, I think causing this kind of fear and instability and

across the board, even when he like goes up and steals a thing from Taylor, it's it's all it's mean. It's bad. I'm also of the belief that a lot of that type specifically thrives off oxygen. And so I don't like I don't really want to give him any ever. Like I I think he's disgusting and I I I don't

want to talk about him really. I mean this is a fine conversation but you know everyone's of course like posting about it and there was another shirt made in retaliation which I think is awesome. That is what he wants. He wants chaos. He wants a reaction. He wants people to be scared and be angry and

I'm I don't want to play, right? Like, bye. Just go away. Yeah. Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

Do you think he's sold any? I don't know. Well, it's gone now. Oh, it is. Yeah. Shopify took it down.

Okay. Let's just say it's a historic public meltdown for the ages. I This is one of the most bizarre things

to But yeah, but it's it's not that bizarre because it's been such a long he's been escalating to this for so long.

I mean, there was a period where he was just writing incredible music. Came up with some of the greatest Jay-Z songs with him. Like there was some period where he was just a volcano of incredible creativity.

He was but we also don't know who he was back then. Like no when I watched the doc about him before he got really crazy. What I saw is a guy who had some very deep social challenges his whole life. I think he's been very um [snorts]

atypical [clears throat] as a person. I think so too. You know what part of the problem is I can admit I so can't relate to hating Jewish people. It seems like the dumbest thing to me.

Yeah. And so it's so cuckoo that I wonder how does one get themselves there. I hear you. And that's me too. I'm like I don't even understand this.

But 6 million of them were killed because someone didn't like them. Yeah. one person who created such a massive

uh revolution that like 6 million of them were killed. So it's it sounds cuckoo and then that is also

I acknowledge there's a huge history of it. Even before they killed them, they weren't allowed to uh participate in most of the economy.

Yeah. I think like they've been um very poorly treated for hundreds and hundreds of years.

Yeah. There's an underestimation of making a group the scapegoat of a problem. Yeah.

And how really bad that can get when you have poor white people living in the same city with poor black people and poor Latinos. I we see the lack of resources and the competition that's definitely going to file into these ingroup. It's kind of quite predictable.

Like it's a bunch of people in scarcity blaming one another for their scarcity. Makes a lot of sense. I'm not even sure where you're interacting in that circle. Like you're not thinking Jewish people have taken your jobs. You're not thinking like all these other things that perpetuate that kind of inner city poor stereotyping and racism.

Yeah. Um it's just like they're not going to jail a lot. There's nothing like I'm not even sure there, you know,

they control the media. They there's there's narratives. I mean, they're ridiculous, but there are narratives that get built about. That's why I'm so allergic to any stereotype, whether it's good or bad, because you don't know

about the good ones, though. No, because it's a good as soon as you start doing massive generalizations,

it's really great hair. No, only me. Yeah, it's just it's it is I've I mean I've been not really paying on purpose too much attention to what has been going on in the world. It does feel um a little irrespon like I'm trying to figure out the line of complete ignoring and keeping my sanity. Yeah.

Um I haven't really found it yet. So I'm I'm sort of not partaking at all. But yeah, things make your way to you and it is scary. I mean, it's just

Well, that and then to circle back to a little bit is Oh my god, it's so crazy he put this t-shirt up. It's not that crazy because permission has been granted by our most elite in charge to say whatever the [ __ ] you want to say, to do whatever the [ __ ] you want to do. Elon is doing a hail Hitler. That was at our United States inauguration. So, you know, I'm just saying like it's not out of nowhere that someone crazy like that is is going to feel like, well, now is the time I can put my t-shirt up. Um, okay. Well, speaking of stereotypes, yeah,

Walton, Walton Gogggins, shout out to Georgia Southern, a school near where I grew up.

How far? Um, 60 miles. You know, I don't know about miles. Probably further cuz Atlanta's really in the middle. So, if it's called southern I gota it's got to be closer to Florida now.

No, no, it's in it's in the Georgia uh the Atlanta area. Well, it's in Georgia,

right? But is it in southern Georgia? Yeah. Okay. Closer to Florida, I guess. I would imagine.

I guess I I've never thought of it as closer to Florida, but Yeah. to the south of you.

Let's find out how far it is from my parents house. Great. I'm going to use maps for that.

Okay, good. Okay, it's 3 hours and 28 minutes. Okay. So, from more than 60 miles.

150 160. Yeah. 180. It's um 231 miles. Whoa. That's very far. Wow. From my parents.

From your parents. So, it must really be on that border. It's It's here. It's here. And that's Savannah on the coast there.

Okay. So, it's a bit east and south from Atlanta, but yeah, it's pretty close to Jacksonville. Yeah.

Yeah. Not too far. Not too bad. Not too far. You could be there for a lunch appointment if you had to.

Oh, wow. Get some fresh oranges. Um, I had a lot of friends who went there. Did you guys You guys would drive to Disney World obviously, right? You're very close.

Yeah, we would. Eight. Were we about 6 hours? Okay. The speed your father drove.

It was 8 hours. I could do it in five. Let me put it in. Disney World 6 hours 55 minutes. Okay.

472 miles. Okay. I'm sure you guys had to stop. I know what it's like. Yeah, we had to stop.

We couldn't go more than 60 damn miles this summer in Europe. Okay. Tortuga. Yes. Spanish word for turtle.

Well, it's a great word. It is. Yeah. [clears throat] His earliest memories are in Decar. My mom worked at Decatur Federal Bank.

That was one of her first jobs. Okay. How long she'd serve? I thank her for her service, too.

Me, too. I don't know. Okay. Okay. An enulment. Yes. How does an anulment work?

Okay. An anulment is a legal ruling that ends a marriage by declaring it invalid. It makes the marriage null and void as if it never happened. Here are the criteria. Fraud,

if one spouse tricked the other into marriage. Yeah. Coercion. If one spouse was forced into the marriage.

Okay. mental incapacity. That's really bad. Hard to prove. That's ding ding ding.

Kanye's wife. Oh, okay. They could get an anulment. Um, if one spouse was not mentally capable of marrying, physical inability. If one spouse is unable to consummate the marriage.

Yeah, this is interesting. Yeah, you were against this and I was for this. I know. I'm against it

because you can't if someone marries you Yeah. and they can't perform sex with you. Uh you needed to say that ahead of time cuz you can't just surprise someone

and say, "Guess what? Sex won't be a part of this marriage." You go, "Well, then that's obviously the understanding was there would be sex."

But what if you are married, you're having sex? Yeah. And then it's been consummated.

Yeah, it has been consummated. Yeah. Oh, is consmate just the first time? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so it's not like then in two months you

It's like you get married and a year later you still haven't had sex. Well, what if you have sex and then you stop being able to? Some men have that issue,

right? So then can you enol after like a year? It sounds like consummated is a very operative word. Yeah.

So it sounds like never had sex. Okay, that's fair. You need to tell someone upfront about that. Well, what if you don't know? What if you've had sex with other people and then for some reason with this person you just can't?

You should get your marriage anold and find a partner you can have sex with. That's my suggestion there for both parties.

What about if fraud there was fraud? Fraud was listed in the divorce in the enulment with Kenny Chzninger

and Renee Zelwer. But what happened? I know that's the great curiosity. what was fraudulent about what he was promising

or her. I think she cited fraud. Oh, if memory serves me. Okay, this has been a very um

gossipy extra extra inside Hollywood edition. [snorts] Yeah. Um, incest if the marriage between people who are too closely related by blood. I agree with that one.

Cousins though. I agree. Wait, you don't think cousins can get married? No. Oh, you don't? That one's very loosey goosey.

What? Yeah. Yeah. We had an expert on that had a whole chapter about incest and has gone through the world and it's very rare for uh culture to have uh forbid cousins to get married. It's very common everywhere.

No cousins. You mean like second and third and fourth? I don't want to marry any of my cousins,

right? But I can also imagine never even meeting your cousin. I haven't met some of mine, but I don't want to marry them.

What if you met them and they you meet them for the first time at 37? Yeah. And they're gorgeous.

Great. Let's get married. Great. Meet me at the [snorts] No, that's so This is a Jonathan then.

Cyclopses. No. So, that's a little exaggerated. Not Not between siblings, but it still can h when it's too close, it's not good.

Yeah. But it that's science. This was a part of the that the book you can't remember. I want to say it might have been Paul Bloom the last time I read his thing.

I think it's it's been a little exaggerated the genetic risk of cousins. I'm not I don't want to be with my cousins, but I don't I don't think I care if other cousins are together.

Really? I don't think I do. I have to make myself care. I don't you I guess I guess people can do what they want. I mean it's very common throughout the world

as you someone's preferred. No, it's a lot of places it's preferred. No, it's not.

Okay. Bigamy. If one spouse was already married to someone else. Um bigamy is the only one we can come together on. That's Yeah.

Well, no mental incapacity, right? And physical. Yeah, we don't. And coercion. What don't we is just consummation.

Incest. I well consummation because Oh, consummation is physical. Yeah, I know. I'm on the fence about that one.

I can't believe you're on the fence about that. Why get married? Be friends. What if you're in because love is not just love is more than sex and friends.

Sexual love is romantic love and you get married and then you have friendships that are loving and supportive. You could be roommates. That's great. But entering into the romantic bond of marriage with no attraction to the person or interest in it being sexual with them, I think is a deal breakaker. That's a total deal breaker. No, hold on. I want to be very clear. If you're asexual, I honor that. And you said to the person, "I'm asexual. I don't ever want to have sex."

Yeah. Great. And that person's like, "Cool. I don't either." Go crazy. Right. But no,

but you really need to declare that. It can't be a surprise. Okay. I want to pivot this a little bit. You put sexual love and romantic love in the same bucket. You You call that the same for you. Those are synonymous.

That's interesting. Oh, is it? Yeah. You think that's I think there are three buckets. I think there's sexual

attraction. Okay. Romantic love. And then friendship love. Why would romantic love be different than the sexual part? Who would you be romantically in love with that you didn't want to have sex with?

You would just be in friends love with them as a friend. No. Like I think maybe this is gendered, but I think for a lot of women, not me cuz I'm not married, but I could see this. I could see over time being less sexually attract I mean this happens in every marriage, right? You become like less sexually attracted to your married marriage partner,

but you're still romantically in love with them. You love them in a way you don't love your friends.

Yes. But you had a sexual relationship that has slowed down as opposed to you were never intending to have a sexual relationship and sex was never going to be a part of this.

I guess I'm just saying to me those are they're three buckets. They're not like loving someone romantically or loving a partner.

Uhhuh. Apart from sex is a different kind of love and care and and than a love for a friend for me for you. No, this is kind of interesting.

Yeah. I think I'm either uh I want a romantic love with a woman or I want a friendship love with them. I there's no third bucket for me and considering love. Love, sure, there's people I would love to have sex with that I would not want to hang out with, which is kind of gendered generally speaking.

Mhm. But um yeah, there's no one that I would want a romantic relationship with that I wouldn't want to have sex with. Wouldn't happen,

right? Then they would just be a friend and I wouldn't marry them. [snorts] Yeah.

You want to marry a friend? No. And have no sex? No. I No. And not justify an anulment if they ask for it.

Not say that. I didn't say that. I just I I just think romantic love is different than sexual attraction. Obviously, you want both in your m in your husband.

Like romantic love is wanting to kiss the person's lips. Yeah, that's fun. Yeah, that's the same thing as sexual attraction. But those aren't different things to me.

But over time, like there's no one I want to kiss really bad but then don't want to have sex with. If I want to kiss them and I love them,

but but like over over time in the M, not to get too personal, but like every time you kiss Kristen, you want to have sex with her? Like no. Like that's a that it's

No, but I would like to have sex with Kristen. Well, yeah. Yeah, right. And if I didn't want to have sex with her, that would be an issue.

But if you didn't want to have sex, let's say like now after so many years, you stopped really wanting to have sex with her. But you you still love her romantically in a way that is different than how you love

Yeah. I just I I think comparing something 20 years out in week week one, no one's getting a marriage anulled after 20 years.

I'm talking you marry someone, it is revealed to you, they have no intention to have a sexual relationship with you. I think you're definitely entitled to get out of that marriage. No problem.

I mean, I guess I ag I agree. This false advertisement. Well, also, it's on you. Why haven't you Why Why haven't you asked about their sexual appetites before you married them? Well, I think you have said, "I can't wait to be married. I can't wait for our first night. I can't I'm sure that's fraud."

And then the person didn't go, "There's not going to be a first night, just so you know,

cuz I don't want to have sex with you cuz I am not romantically attracted to you at all.

They want to really bad, but they just can't." Meaning they can get an erection.

Yeah. Again, if you are not able to ever get an erection and have sex with your wife, then I think your wife's entitled to be with someone who can. I am sorry. It's already a bummer for you. It shouldn't also be a bummer for that person.

Okay. What if a couple was waiting to have sex until they got married? Yeah. And then they both were really horny. He could get it up.

Yeah. [clears throat] He could get it in. Yeah. And but then on the night of the wedding, his dick gets cut off by a stranger. Someone come, a robber comes in

and he starts attacking and the robber cuts his dick off and leaves. It's still not fraud because you didn't false advertise, right?

You just someone cut your dick off. Yeah, that per if someone cuts my dick off, I'm still going to put a lot of energy into making sure Kristen's still having lots of sexual experiences,

but not sexual intercourse with my penis. No, cuz it's gone. It's gone. That's called consummate. Okay. So, it's on the actual day of the wedding.

Yeah. I mean, that's quite complicated and I don't know if we have a single case of that ever happening.

Okay. Well, but if that happened, that would be up to the gal to decide if she wanted to never have sex the rest of her life.

Yeah. Or if if she decided she does want to have sex, then what arrangement could they work out where she could still have sex and they could still be married?

Do you think most men would allow her to? No. Most men are very jealous and terrified. That's the thing. They would not allow her to go have sex with

I would for sure. I would almost insist on it. I would She probably might want to. Yeah, I know. It would probably be a thing.

Yeah. Like, you cannot can't go your whole life. It's not your fault that my dick got cut off at the ceremony,

right? Yeah. Little did you know, she hired that robber. Oh my god. Cuz she was asexual the whole time.

Um, all right. That's it. But again, someone asexual is going to be upset. I'm not judging you. I'm not talking about you. Two asexual people want to get married and have a nonsex marriage. That's great.

Asexual person with the sexual person, if that sexual person decides it's fine.

Yeah. Good luck to them. That's up to them. They get everyone gets to make their own.

Yeah. But everyone's got to be honest. Unless it's incest. You got just got to be honest.

Everyone has to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you're not honest, I think you're

You should be able to get out of that. Sure. I I understand that. I also just think it's stupid. Like anulment to me isn't less than a divorce. Just get a divorce.

Well, but it is in that there's no splitting of communal property. There's no It just never happened. There's no bunch of legal fees. There's no uh

But it says the marriage records remain on file. Yeah. But you no longer have to say I was married in divorce cuz you weren't.

Now that to me is fraudulent. If I married someone and then later and I found out that they had an anulment, they didn't tell me.

All I'm saying is you're not a divorce. Say, who cares? To me, it's the same thing.

If I married a someone should tell somebody if they had an anulment, but I definitely see why if someone coerced you into wedding, you shouldn't have to go get a divorce and have that be your ex-husband and all these things. No, I think it should be like it never happened.

Interesting. You're very religious now. I am very under in his name we pray. Under his eye.

Under his eye. Um. All right. That was it. Yeah, that's it. Okay. Okay. God, I don't want you to get an anulment, but it's very fun.

Why? Well, just cuz we just talked about it and there's I'm wonder, you know, like what avenue

I don't want have to go through any of these. I don't what avenue are you going to uh pursue.

That is so mean. Because you have a you have a menu of options. Like I want this enulled. Which one is?

Let's hope it's not incest. So sad. All right. Love you. Bye. Love you.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Rerelease: Walton Goggins | Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard"?

In order: 0:00 Fallout, Walton Gogggins, Dan Rather, Leslie Stall; 15:00 Santa Monica, Demon Copperhead; 30:00 Santa Monica, Ernest Hemingway, Georgia Southern, Joel Goldsmith; 45:00 The Shield, American Express, Santa Monica, The Apostle; 1:00:00 White Lotus, Fallout, Righteous Gemstones, Righteous Gemstones; 1:15:00 Alcatraz, Santa Monica, Cavalere, GoDaddy; 1:30:00 Kendrick Lamar; 1:45:00 Georgia Southern, Walton Gogggins.

What is mentioned in this Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard episode?

29 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Santa Monica, White Lotus, Walton Gogggins, Fallout, The Shield, Righteous Gemstones. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Rerelease: Walton Goggins | Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard"?

The episode runs 2 h 10 min; the transcript is about 26,080 words in 708 timestamped sections.

More from Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.