Bestselling author James Patterson on the voices that keep him up at night | Fresh Air

What this episode is about

Bestselling author James Patterson discusses his prolific writing career, which includes popular series such as Alex Cross and collaborations with notable figures like Bill Clinton and Dolly Parton. He also highlights his philanthropic efforts, recent projects including a new book for new fathers, and his innovative approach to co-authoring, revealing how he crafts intricate outlines that collaborators flesh out into complete works.

Key takeaways

• James Patterson: proof that collaboration is the key to literary domination—400 million copies sold with help!
• From copywriting to colossal bestsellers: Patterson turned a briefcase job into a bookcase legacy.
• Voices in the head can be a writing superpower—Patterson channels chaos into character-driven narratives.
• Ten days in silence taught Patterson to listen deeply—now he hears stories instead of just noise.
• Philanthropy pays off: Patterson proves that wealth is best measured by impact, not just income.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Terry Gross (Host) · 6 min speaking
• James Patterson (Guest) · 12 min speaking
• Stephen King (Guest) · 2 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Trappist Monk, The Number One Dad Book, James Patterson by James Patterson, J. Walter Thompson Advertising Agency
2. 5:00 – 10:00: Fillmore East, The Doors, Grateful Dead, Jefferson Airplane
3. 15:00 – 20:00: The Number One Dad Book, Lifelong Learning Award

Notable quotes from "Bestselling author James Patterson on the voices that keep him up at night | Fresh Air"

• Kennedys, John Lennon, Muhammad Ali, and Jeffrey Epstein, as well as books for children and young adults. His new book, The Number One Dad Book, is addressed to new fathers who…

  about The Number One Dad Book · at 0:38

• Million to independent bookstores. In recognition of his work, on May 14th, James Patterson received the Lifelong Learning Award from WHYY, the public radio and TV station…

  about Lifelong Learning Award · at 1:47

• First became really interested in reading, you read a lot of Thomas Merin, who was you like the now famous Trappist Monk. Yeah. Who wrote the bestseller Seven Story Mountain…

  about Trappist Monk · at 3:11

• Peace and ease and think things through. Yeah. You mentioned you were doing too many drugs. Yeah. How did being an usher at the Fillmore East figure into that?

  about Fillmore East · at 5:51

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

Books & papers

• The Number One Dad Book — Book · 2 mentions · first at 0:45
• James Patterson by James Patterson — Book · 1 mention · first at 1:15
  Writes an elaborate outline of the story. The collaborators write the sentences. He describes this in more detail in his 2022 memoir called James Patterson by James Patterson.…
• Seven Story Mountain — Book · 1 mention · first at 3:17
  Reading, you read a lot of Thomas Merin, who was you like the now famous Trappist Monk. Yeah. Who wrote the bestseller Seven Story Mountain, which was kind of required reading…

Companies & orgs

• J. Walter Thompson Advertising Agency — Company · 1 mention · first at 0:54
  The Number One Dad Book, is addressed to new fathers who need some advice. Back when Patterson was starting to write, he took a job as a junior copywriter at the J. Walter Thompson Advertising Agency.

Concepts & topics

• Trappist Monk — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 3:15

Places & events

• Lifelong Learning Award — Event · 2 mentions · first at 1:52
• Fillmore East — Place · 2 mentions · first at 5:57
• Woodstock — Event · 1 mention · first at 6:34
  Always good, but I needed to just focus more was the main thing. But at the Fillmore East, I also was at Woodstock. Now, everybody I know my age says they were there, but they…

Media & podcasts

• The Doors — Media · 2 mentions · first at 6:15
  It was Grateful Dead or the Jefferson Airplane. I think they were there and Jimmyi Hendris the Doors. Yeah. And the Doors. Yeah. Yeah. No, I well, no, my job there was not to…
• Grateful Dead — Media · 1 mention · first at 6:11
  Was where they had all of the like psychedelic concerts, whether it was Grateful Dead or the Jefferson Airplane. I think they were there and Jimmyi Hendris the Doors. Yeah. And…
• Jefferson Airplane — Media · 1 mention · first at 6:11
  Was where they had all of the like psychedelic concerts, whether it was Grateful Dead or the Jefferson Airplane. I think they were there and Jimmyi Hendris the Doors. Yeah. And…
• Jimmy Hendrix — Media · 1 mention
  I think they were there and Jimmy Hendrix the Doors.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:01 This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. My guest, James Patterson, has sold over 400 million copies of his many books. Those books include the Alex Cross Detective series, the Women's Murder Club series, and Maximum Ride. Alex Cross was spun off into three films, two starring Morgan Freeman, and another starring Tyler Perry. An Amazon Prime Video series called Cross has been renewed for a second season. Patterson has co-authored books with Bill Clinton and Dolly Parton. His second collaboration with Clinton will be published this summer. Patterson's also written non-fiction books about the Kennedys, John Lennon, Muhammad Ali, and Jeffrey Epstein, as well as books for children and young adults. His new book, The Number One Dad Book, is addressed to new fathers who need some advice. Back when Patterson was starting to write, he took a job as a junior copywriter at the J. Walter Thompson Advertising Agency.

0:57 He rose to the top, becoming CEO and then head of the AY's North America division. If you're wondering how he's managed to do all this, he typically works with collaborators. Patterson writes an elaborate outline of the story. The collaborators write the sentences. He describes this in more detail in his 2022 memoir called James Patterson by James Patterson. I'd be remiss if I didn't also mention that he's now collaborating on a thriller with the star YouTuber and influencer known as Mr. Beast. As you can guess, Patterson is pretty rich. He's also a generous philanthropist, donating over $7 million to schools and classroom libraries around the country, establishing over 400 teacher and writer education scholarships at 21 colleges and universities, and giving over $2 million to independent bookstores. In recognition of his work, on May 14th, James Patterson received the Lifelong Learning Award from WHYY, the public

1:57 radio and TV station where Fresh Air is produced. That was the occasion for our interview, which we recorded in front of an audio. Hi, I'm Stephen King. I'm here to honor James. I love the guy. What can I tell you? First of all, congratulations and thank you for doing this interview. I am not worthy. I am not worthy. So, in your memoir, you describe how you hear voices in your head basically telling you stories. I'd really like to know what that feels like. But what that experience is like. You think you do, but no, I do until the voices won't stop and they keep you up at night. You know, it's an interesting thing. You talk about voice. All all these books have a different voice. This the the father book has a voice. the autobiography has a voice. Alice Cross is a different kind of voice. The kids books, different voices. I've learned not to like get up in the middle of the night anymore and

2:56 start writing. I just Yeah, pretty much. Sometimes I do, right, too. So, another thing that I learned from your memoir, which I found really fascinating because it's so different from the work that you do and from the stories I keep coming to in your head. When you were young, before you became a writer, when you first became really interested in reading, you read a lot of Thomas Merin, who was you like the the now famous Trappist Monk. Yeah. Who wrote the bestseller Seven Story Mountain, which was kind of required reading for a lot of people in college like in the 60s and 70s. Um, but anyway, you actually went to the monastery in Kentucky. Yes. that he lived in for many years. And I think you seriously considered becoming a Trappist monk. No, I didn't I didn't do that. But I I was in graduate school. I was at Vanderbilt. And I I was kind of wandering around thinking about what I It was during Vietnam, so it was a scary

3:48 time for for anybody in school or not in school. And I decided to go up there to and I just kind of showed up, which it's kind of interesting because the Trappist monks, you know, they don't they're not supposed to really talk, but they have one Yeah. They don't talk. It's one priest or brother who who will greet people that come in and um I remember uh I talked to he said well why are you here and I said well you know I'm doing a little too many drugs and you know whatever and I I just need to kind of straighten my life out a little bit and he said James you know life is like a football game of football and you run down the field but if you step out of bounds you know the the score doesn't count and at that point I just wish that he had maintained the silence rather than giving that but they did let me stay. They let me stay for about 10 days. And I left there saying, "Okay, if I want to be a writer, I have

4:38 to do certain things and I'm and I'm going to do this somehow. I'm going to try to do it." But I needed that 10 days to really sort of think it through and focus on it. And focusing is is a big thing. You mentioned the autobiography and especially at my age. I think it's it's semi interesting to me anyway. Uh and I wrote it during COVID, but I I became a better writer writing that autobiography. I concentrated on the sentences more than I had in a while, which is really important for me. Well, one of the things I find interesting about spending 10 days in the in the Travis Monastery is because they practice silence and because you're always hearing stories and voices in your head and both the silence and the need to like write to always have like more words and more stories seems so kind of opposite from like the attention to silence in the monastery. So it seemed so different from I I just wanted

5:29 to think and I mean they're not in totally s I mean they sing it's a fascinating life. I mean they go to bed at like 7:30. They get up at 3 or so. They have a mass or whatever and they sing a lot and they're all very healthy. At least they were in those days and then they go out in the fields and they and then they come back and have these very Spartan meals. And uh I just found it was a time to really put my mind at peace and ease and and and think things through. Yeah. You mentioned you were doing too many drugs. Yeah. How did being an usher at the Fillmore East figure into that?

6:01 Uh, and for anyone who doesn't know the Filmore East, that was the East Coast equivalent of the Filillmore West, which was where they had all of the like psychedelic concerts, you know, whether it was um Grateful Dead or the Jefferson Airplane. I think they were there and Jimmyi Hendris the Doors. Yeah. And the Doors. Yeah. Yeah. No, I well, no, my job there was not to take drugs and I and it wasn't that I was a massive drug user and I pretty much always had things in control, but it just seemed to me that if I really and my grades are always good, but I I needed to just focus more was the main thing. But at the Fillmore East, I also was at Woodstock. Now, everybody I know my age says they were there, but they weren't because I looked around and uh um but the Fillmore East, I did that for a couple of years. And um uh actually Robert Mapleorp was was one of the ushers. You're kidding. No, no, no.

6:53 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I knew him a little bit back then. And um actually one of the stories in the book which was so great um after one the doors after one of their shows and they were all sitting in the front uh I think there was two shows that night and they were sitting there with with Graham who ran Filmer and Filillmore West and uh a bunch of the ushers we were sitting behind them a few rows and uh Jim Morrison he looked it was a three-story theater and he looked up and all these lights were hanging over the the seats in the front he said Bill that's really dangerous those lights are come down and kill people. And Graham's going, "You, Jim, just relax. The lights are not coming down. You know, it's it's we're going to be fine." And and then Morrison just stormed off. And about 10 minutes later, we hear this voice and somebody screaming. You look up there. This is a true story. And Morrison is hanging from

7:42 the lights. He goes, "You're right, Bill. It's okay. These lights all, you know." So, people are always wondering like, "How do you do it? How do you write so many books?" Yeah. And and the answer is you collaborate. Well, that's part of the answer. I mean part of it is you love to do it. I somebody said you're lucky if you find something you like to do and then it's a miracle if somebody will pay you to do it. Uh but even before people were paying me to do it. I just loved and actually it was working at MLAN the hospital which is when I started writing uh uh I I would go into Cambridge and buy I I went to a Catholic high school and they just gave us a lot of books that none of us liked. But when I when I moved up there, I started reading a lot of stuff, the kind of stuff I hadn't read before. And I was loving a lot of plays, short stories, um, you know, and a lot of novels. And then I started scribbling and I loved

8:30 it. I just loved telling stories. And I think I grew up in the woods and I used to, as a little kid, I would go out in the woods and tell myself stories and story after story after story after story. And I think that and I remember actually when I used to get down to Vanderbilt, I would drive down there from Massachusetts. It would take like 26 hours or whatever. And they used to write Broadway musicals in my head driving down to you and sing songs. It was crazy. But, you know, you might notice a pattern. The music and lyrics.

8:58 Uh, well, yeah. I mean, sort of the music. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I would always put a tune to it, whatever. I was, you know, and the storyline, whatever the heck it was, and it would just, you know, I don't know. But it was fun. I liked it. At what point in your writing career did you think that it would be um helpful or a good idea or more productive or whatever to work with collaborators and and and then maybe you can explain your process for doing that. Yeah. You know, I don't know why people find it so extraordinary. First of all, in in advertising, which I hate to go back to that prison, but in my mind, um it's very collaborative and you generally you work with an art director and maybe a producer and and the two or three of you will sit in a room and you create these little stories, little films usually. Uh and that is collaborative. You know, Chapel, all these, you know, some famous doing this

9:50 thing on the, you know, 5 10 whatever number collaborative. My own theory is if we're going to save the world, we'll have to somehow figure out to be collaborative or AI will probably figure it out for us and either save us or destroy us depending on, you know, the mood that day. It just seemed a natural thing to me and um uh the first one actually was a little golf book and it was a guy that I knew from the advertising days and after we played golf, we just started chatting about a story that I had and we said, "Well, let's just try this." and we wrote Miracle on the 17th green and then after that I just said you know what I I can do this this will be an interesting thing and I I don't remember the first one it might have been a woman's murder club where I collaborated the second or the third book Andy Gross who wonderful guy who just died was so tragic yeah I read the o oh my god you know just such

10:38 a a healthy looking man uh you know and and a wonderful person at any rate that was very sad for us and obviously is tragic for his family you describe yourself as being like the storyteller But you enjoy telling the stories, writing, you know, coming up with a story. It's doing like a very elaborate 30 um 30 40 50 say and then No, I I mean on this tour I'm I'm working on three outlines. Yeah. But but then you you leave this actual sentences in the book. When you see what happens to Alice Cross, I got to tell you.

11:12 But you leave the sentences in the book to the person you're collaborating with. Um, at what point did you think that you'd stick to the stories and leave the sentences to someone else? Correct me if No, no, no. Yeah. No, I didn't. I mean, a lot of times it's in the beginning. No, I would go in and do two or three drafts in the beginning. Not as much now. Um, because most of the people I'm working with, they kind of know the joke, but I'll still come in and rewrite. Uh I mean the most insane thing was when I did the bookshots which were novelas which I still think is was a very valuable thing to do so that stores would have these you could read these books in a couple of hours like a movie.

11:51 They were novelas 100 pages 100 whatever the heck and I think it's a useful thing. The publishers were afraid of it because oh my god people are going to buy these $7 books and they won't buy well they will buy longer books but you're just going to have more people and some of them that's all they have time for. they have a couple hours and they want to, you know, it's like it's like a movie, you know. But the year I did that, I wrote 2400 pages of outlines in addition to two full books. So, and then that's one of the things that people are looking at, you know, what I do and they go like, well, and they always project their own situation and people are sort of funny that way. Like with this the dad book, how to be, you know, a better dad in one hour. I'll talk to these various uh you know people who interview you and they go what's the one idea and I go there isn't one idea the whole idea of this book there's so

12:41 many things dads can work on and and and they need just need to figure out the things that pertain to them and the reason it's one hour is because most dads will not read the 400page book so what I did is just try and that's not a joke but it's serious I mean because I wanted to to be pragmatic about it and um what I've heard and I've never had this experience before but especially women who read the book and they'll say, "I'm giving this quite seriously to my husband, quite seriously to my dad, and quite seriously to my two goofy brothers who who are dads and really need need help." And and and guys do guys need help right now. Are these things that your father did or did not do for you?

13:21 My dad, the only time, and this isn't totally true, but my my only hug I ever got from my dad was on his deathbed and he apologized and he cried, which he never did. He apologized for not hugging you or something. He apologized for just not being as close as he thought he should have been. And I just said, "You were a great dad. You're a great dad." Was he? He would. Look, he grew up in the Newber poor house. Uh uh it was called the Pogy. His mother was a charwoman there. His father had disappeared. Uh uh uh he never knew he never knew his father and um he didn't have the experience to be a dad, you know. So, you know, that's fine. And I I did therapy for one year and I got in touch with and and I I just don't blame him. It was fine. He did the best he could. I have a friend his whole thing is doing the best you can.

14:15 Religion, you're doing the best you can. Okay, that's good. God bless you. You're doing the best you can. Okay. What did your father end up doing to make a living? Well, he the last thing he did after he retired, he retired at 1661. He actually wrote a novel. It didn't get published, but it was pretty good. It's pretty good. And that's what he wanted to do. He went to Hamilton, which is to go from where he was, the poor house, and to get into Hamilton. Leap. Unbelievable leap. Uh he was a bright guy. He didn't have a lot of confidence, you know, he just didn't think he could.

14:47 He he he sold insurance and then he actually did well. He worked for Credential, he did well in the insurance stuff, but uh but he didn't have the confidence. And he didn't instill confidence in myself or my sisters either, which was unfortunate. But my grandmother, she was the one, she said, "Listen, I'm going to be real about this stuff. You're not going to play in the NBA, so forget about that. You don't go to your left very well. Uh you're good. I could dunk in high school. It was a little white guy that could dunk, but uh but you're not going to make it. So, but you're you you are going to be able to do stuff. And she had one of the lines which I use it in on Substack is hungry dogs run faster. That was one of her things. And the other thing was just go out and chop wood. Do it. Do it. Don't you know stop talking about writing your book. Go write the damn book. Uh seriously. Um so I want to ask you about

15:35 your Alex Cross series, which is like your longest running series of books. Did you know that you'd be capable of writing mysteries and and thrillers? No. And I somewhere in there, I think it was when I were at Vanderbilt, I read and I didn't read a lot of commercial novels at that point, but I read Day of the Jackal and The Exorcist, and I went, "Oh, these are cool. I like these." And maybe I could write something like that. The novel that had knocked me out, 100 Years of Solitude, and I said, "I I'm not capable of that." I thought I could write a literary, you know, an okay, you know, uh, but I said, I don't really want to do that. I don't want to write for those people. Honestly, I'm not interested in those kinds of stories.

16:17 But I said, I could maybe I could do something like Day of the Jackal, maybe. Uh, but I can't do 100 Years of Solitude. I don't have it in me. And that's what I'd like to do. But, you know, it's like, no, you're not going to play in the NBA. Sorry. Yeah. I didn't have the confidence, you know, and that's a big deal. That's and I fortunately down there there was a professor and I took one writing course and he said you have it you have that and he was it was a real conservative southern guy and I was the hippie with the long hair and the whole whatever I wish I had the long hair now but you know uh and that was a big confidence builder that was huge for me huge to have a professor to have a published novelist say you have Peter Taylor was another one Peter Taylor he read some of my stuff but you have it it really good short story writer who was at the University of Virginia. So, um another

17:08 question about religion. You know, we talked a little about um the Travis Monastery that you spent 10 days in and how it helped you decide to be a writer. Yeah. Um do you maintain any form of religion in your life? If that's not too personal to ask. No. um you know yeah something something some connection that you know um certainly the idea that things are bigger than me which I think that isn't necessarily religious but I think it's I I think it probably has its basis back in in growing up Catholic and there are things more important than you and whether that's the society or whatever the heck it is or your family. So I've always had that you were an alter boy. I was I'd served mass uh every day for like two years in a row. This is when I don't know how old I was. Nine 10 years old. Yeah. What did it mean to you?

18:02 Well, I think in those days and I think like a lot of kids, I you know, I thought about maybe I'll be a priest. That might be an interesting thing to do. I certainly respected the priests and the brothers and the nuns and what my mother taught in the school. Uh we we had, you know, priests and brothers in our house all the time. They wrecked two of our cars. Oh, really? A little too much wine. Whatever. I don't know. Not yet. Honestly, you know. Oh, he hit a fire hydrant. Okay, that's okay, father. No problem. And we didn't have money either. I mean, that was the other like, oh, no. And my father was not Catholic, so he was especially not keen on that.

18:40 So, you know, I just really appreciate like I think so many many many people do, all the philanthropy you've done, the support of literacy, the support of independent bookstores, scholarships. Yeah. Funding school libraries. One thing I find especially endearing, which you've done, is giving bonuses to independent book sellers and librarians a little bit too. Yeah. Yeah. That's such a nice touch because I'm sure they're all not paid very well and it's such a personal thing to do. So it's like acknowledging not just the institution or an abstract and like loving reading. It's honoring the individuals who do the work. Yeah. And how did you come up with that? I don't know. But you know the but the other piece of it which just to your point no no no to your point is I get the nicest notes from people of all the things I do. They'll send these notes and they'll Yeah. And some of them, you know, like

19:32 for the first time in three years, I gave my parents presents this year because or I went to the dentist because of the, you know what I mean? And it's real and it's honest and and they're so appreciative and so that's a nice thing. James Patterson, I want to thank you for this and congratulations on the lifelong learning award. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. James Patterson's latest book is the number one dad book. The new novel he wrote with Bill Clinton will be published later this summer. Our thanks to WHY's Nancy Stuski, Alli Les Baron, and Aventette Murray.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Bestselling author James Patterson on the voices that keep him up at night | Fresh Air"?

Terry Gross (Host), James Patterson (Guest), Stephen King (Guest).

What is "Bestselling author James Patterson on the voices that keep him up at night | Fresh Air" about?

Bestselling author James Patterson discusses his prolific writing career, which includes popular series such as Alex Cross and collaborations with notable figures like Bill Clinton and Dolly Parton. He also highlights his philanthropic efforts, recent projects including a new book for new fathers, and his innovative approach to co-authoring, revealing how he crafts intricate outlines that…

What is mentioned in this Fresh Air episode?

12 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including The Number One Dad Book, James Patterson by James Patterson, Lifelong Learning Award, Trappist Monk, Fillmore East, J. Walter Thompson Advertising Agency. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Bestselling author James Patterson on the voices that keep him up at night | Fresh Air"?

The episode runs 20 min; the transcript is about 4,094 words in 26 timestamped sections.

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