Leslie Uggams looks back on decades in show business | Fresh Air

What this episode is about

Leslie Uggams reflects on her extensive career in the entertainment industry, highlighting her remarkable journey from a six-year-old performer to a vibrant 82-year-old actress still actively working in major projects like HBO's The Gilded Age and the Oscar-winning film American Fiction. Uggams shares anecdotes from her early days, interactions with music legends, and significant milestones, including her Tony Award win and becoming the first Black woman to host a TV variety show, emphasizing her enduring passion for performance rather than

Key takeaways

• Leslie Uggams: from childhood star to icon, proving talent truly ages like fine wine—better with time.
• Behind every blind character, there’s an actor who didn’t read the script—Uggams on her charming Deadpool surprise.
• Being a busybody in the Gilded Age: bridging past and present, Uggams exemplifies art imitating complex history.
• Winning a Tony and breaking barriers, Ugams reminds us that talent knows no age—and neither do stereotypes.
• When your grandmother’s history echoes through your roles, it’s not just acting; it’s a profound connection to legacy.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Terry Gross (Host) · 17 min speaking
• Leslie Uggams (Guest) · 26 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Deadpool, Leslie Ugams, Ethel Waters, Hallelujah Baby
2. 10:00 – 15:00: Sing Along with Mitch, Apollo Theater, Cotton Club, Giuliard
3. 15:00 – 20:00: Leslie Ugams, Ethel Waters, Hallelujah Baby, Sing Along with Mitch
4. 20:00 – 25:00: Ethel Waters, Frankie Lyman, Sugar Hill
5. 25:00 – 30:00: Mitch Miller, Sing Along with Mitch
6. 30:00 – 35:00: Mitch Miller, Hallelujah Baby, Sing Along with Mitch, Talking to Yourself
7. 35:00 – 40:00: Talking to Yourself, Leslie Ugams

Notable quotes from "Leslie Uggams looks back on decades in show business | Fresh Air"

• This is Fresh Air. I am Terry Gross. My guest Leslie Ugams was first considered remarkable for starting her performing career when she was six. Now she's considered remarkable as one of the actors still active at the age of 82.

  about Leslie Ugams · at 0:00

• Soon after, Ugam started singing at the Apollo, where she met luminaries like Lewis Armstrong and Ella Fitzgerald. She became a regular on the CBS music variety show Sing Along…

  about Sing Along with Mitch · at 0:46

• They, they had teachers and stuff to teach them there. So, they didn't have that. But I could relate to what was going on in that story very much because you don't have any say…

  about Roots · at 6:54

• Okay. So, before we get to performing on television, let's get to the Apollo Theater.

  about Apollo Theater · at 12:13

• She'll soon be in episode seven of HBO's The Gilded Age. So, I want to talk with you about Bula, which starred Ethel Waters as a very wise, like super competent maid and cook in the home of a white family and the Hendersons.

  about Ethel Waters · at 20:00

• That they could do. Also, a lot of stay at home moms as well. It was an interesting neighborhood because around the corner for me, Frankie Lyman, who became Frankie Lyman, and the teenagers.

  about Frankie Lyman · at 24:05

• That from then on they'd have me sing every time before I did the contest. And Mitch Miller happened to be watching one night and cuz I sang the Lord's Prayer and Mitch tuned…

  about Mitch Miller · at 29:53

• Yeah. So, I'm going to play, if it's okay with you, my favorite song from Hallelujah Baby, and that's Talking to Yourself. And yes.

  about Talking to Yourself · at 34:40

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Leslie Ugams — Person · Main guest · 3 mentions · first at 0:02
  Primary interview subject; discussed her long career (child performer to acclaimed actor/singer), major roles (Deadpool, Roots, Empire, The Gilded Age), and industry/race history.
• Ethel Waters — Person · Referenced performer / early-career mentor figure · 5 mentions · first at 0:37
  Referenced as the star of the TV series 'Beulah' where Ug(g)ams appeared as a child; discussed for her dignity, artistry, and advocacy on set regarding stereotyped hair styling.
• Mitch Miller — Person · Referenced music/TV executive and collaborator · 3 mentions · first at 29:59
  Key figure in Ug(g)ams' breakthrough: saw her on 'Name That Tune,' signed her to Columbia, and featured her on 'Sing Along with Mitch,' defending her inclusion amid segregation-era pushback.
• Frankie Lyman — Person · Referenced neighborhood peer / music figure · 2 mentions · first at 24:12
  Used to illustrate the musical culture of Ug(g)ams' Harlem/Washington Heights neighborhood; she describes singing outside with him before his fame.
• Nat Cole — Person · Referenced historical comparator · 1 mention · first at 1:09
  Cited to contextualize Ug(g)ams' milestone as the first Black woman and second Black person (after Nat King Cole) to host a TV variety show; transcript shortens his name.
  Rights musical Hallelujah Baby. She won a Tony and the show won one for best musical. Another achievement, she was the first black woman and the second black person after Nat…
• Lucius Lion — Person · Referenced fictional character · 1 mention · first at 0:30
  Mentioned as the main character in 'Empire' whose mother Ug(g)ams played; however the name appears to be a mis-transcription of 'Lucious Lyon' (fictional).
  Oscar-winning 2023 film American Fiction, she played the mother whose dementia progresses through the film. In the series Empire, she was the mother of the main character…

Books & papers

• Hallelujah Baby — Book · 4 mentions · first at 1:00
  Lewis Armstrong and Ella Fitzgerald. She became a regular on the CBS music variety show Sing Along with Mitch. In 1967, she starred in the Broadway civil rights musical…
• Talking to Yourself — Book · 3 mentions · first at 34:44

Places & events

• Apollo Theater — Place · 2 mentions · first at 12:16
• Sugar Hill — Place · 2 mentions · first at 22:48
  The folks Yeah. And you grew up in the Sugar Hill neighborhood of Harlem. The Sugar Hill sketch was about when was set in Sugar Hill when it was no longer representative of…
• Cotton Club — Place · 1 mention · first at 10:30
  She was a dancer at the Cotton Club, which No, no, no, no. My mother was a dancer at the Cotton Club.
• Giuliard — Place · 1 mention · first at 11:59
  Thing was he wanted me to go to college and get an education, which you did. You went to Giuliard.

Media & podcasts

• Sing Along with Mitch — Media · 6 mentions · first at 0:55
• Deadpool — Media · 3 mentions · first at 0:16
  She's in an episode of the new season of HBO's The Gilded Age. She's played Blind Al in the Deadpool films. In the Oscar-winning 2023 film American Fiction, she played the mother whose dementia progresses through the film. In.
• American Fiction — Media · 2 mentions · first at 0:22
  HBO's The Gilded Age. She's played Blind Al in the Deadpool films. In the Oscar-winning 2023 film American Fiction, she played the mother whose dementia progresses through the…
• Roots — Media · 1 mention

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 This is Fresh Air. I am Terry Gross. My guest Leslie Ugams was first considered remarkable for starting her performing career when she was six. Now she's considered remarkable as one of the actors still active at the age of 82. She's in an episode of the new season of HBO's The Gilded Age. She's played Blind Al in the Deadpool films. In the Oscar-winning 2023 film American Fiction, she played the mother whose dementia progresses through the film. In the series Empire, she was the mother of the main character, Lucius Lion. Going back to the beginning, when she was six, she was featured in a 1950 episode of Bula, the ABC series starring Ethel Waters as a wise maid in the home of a white family. Agams played Bula's niece.

0:46 Soon after, Ugam started singing at the Apollo, where she met luminaries like Lewis Armstrong and Ella Fitzgerald. She became a regular on the CBS music variety show Sing Along with Mitch. In 1967, she starred in the Broadway civil rights musical Hallelujah Baby. She won a Tony and the show won one for best musical. Another achievement, she was the first black woman and the second black person after Nat Cole to host her own TV variety show. Leslie Ugums, welcome to Fresh Air. It's a pleasure to have you on the show.

1:18 Thank you. Good to be here. So, what is it like for you now being remarkable for performing professionally at such a young age when you were six and now being remarkable because you're in so many things at the age of 82?

1:32 What's weird about it for me is I never think about that. I just think what's my next gig? I mean, that's how I've always been. Uh, and then I realize when I run into so many different people and they, you know, they go, "Oh, you're such an icon." And I go, "H, I guess I am. I've been doing this a long time." But I always think in terms of, "I'm working, baby. I'm happy."

2:00 That's a good attitude. I have to say, in Deadpool, it was so surprising to hear you use exploives and synonyms for cocaine. Um, how did they think of you for that? What what then what made them think Leslie Youngs will be perfect for this?

2:16 Well, the funniest thing about it is that I happen to be in Florida doing Maim and my agent called me and said, "I have an audition for you for a movie." So, I got the script and I read it and I didn't understand what the heck was going on. All I knew is that she kept falling a lot.

2:41 Oh, you didn't know she was blind? Had no idea. I mean, it when you do these kind of uh superhero kind of things, everything's encrypted because it's all so hush hush that you don't know until the last minute yourself what the heck is going on. And so I had to figure it all out myself. Luckily, I figured it right because when I finished filming the first one, uh Ryan came to me. He said, "Oh, I just love you." He said, "And you had such energy when you did the audition, and I thought to myself, I had no idea what I was doing."

3:19 Did it feel good to use a lot of expletives? Well, you know, it's a character. It's not me. I'm not a toilet mouth kind of person.

3:29 I haven't heard that expression in a long time. Toilet mouth. So, I mean, it's the character. And of course, she has a lot to cuss about because she can't say anything, you know, and she's kind of ticked off about the whole thing. Um, but I think what really got me the part is my interview with uh the director, the first director, Tim Miller, who um we sat down and we talked and everything and he was asking me about my background. And in talking to him, I said a word and he looked at me said, "I love the way you say that word." And the next thing I know, I was doing a screen test and the next thing I know, I was in the movie.

4:11 So, you're about to be in The Guilded Age in episode 7. Yes. And this is the HBO series about the culture clash between people with old money and people with new money and where prosperous black people fit in or don't fit in into that culture. Can you tell us something about your character or is that hush hush?

4:29 She is a busy body. She likes to stir the pot which she does. Okay. Do you know what was happening in your family during the period the Gilded Age is set, which is the late 1800s. Well, I know from my grandmother uh on, you know, on my mother's side, her mother, um there were 10 children. Uh they were all fathered by the plantation owner. The plantation owner built a house on his property for the 10 children, which my grandmother was one of them. And uh they were highly educated. They were they look like white people.

5:13 And uh they all were doctors, dentists, teachers principal. And when my grandmother used to visit me and my mother and father, nobody in my neighborhood realized that I was walking with my grandmother because she looked like a white woman. So, it was uh what I love about the new storyline is that there was the dark skin situation and then there was the high yellow that they would call them when my mother was a kid uh situation and they're addressing that in the Gilded Age, which which is wonderful because there is uh the storyline is right on the mark when it comes to who came from slaves, who was highly educated and had mixed blood.

6:05 So it it it's a good season. It's a good season. So you must have really related when you played Kizzy and Roots because when she is sold to a different plantation owner um played by Chuck Connors, he comes into her cabin frequently and rapes her and her son is his son. Um, so did did you already know about your family history when you played that role?

6:36 Well, you know, it's very interesting. They didn't talk about a lot, did you? They talked about the stuff that they had

6:44 they being your family, the the family. Yeah. But they never talked about those situations of being raped or anything like that because they were educated on the plantation. and they, you know, they had teachers and stuff to teach them there. So, they didn't have that. But I could relate to what was going on in that story very much because you don't have any say so in anything and uh first of all to be torn away from your family is uh quite something. You know, it I find it hard today when I see what's going on here in our beautiful America and all of a sudden you've got people being torn away from their family. The pain of that, all I can say that when I played that part, it was very easy to to pay that that scene because you thought, well, she's got Missy, that's her best friend, Missy, who was breaking the rules and taught her how to read. And then because she taught how to read, she helps the

7:50 boyfriend on the plantation get this pass and then he gets caught and then everything comes out. Um, but she's going to protect me. And I found out she not only was she not going to protect me, she was ticked off because uh I did this and so to punish me, she just said to her uncle, "Go ahead, let her go."

8:11 She she was a white girl who you thought of, you know, Ky thought of as her best friend. Yeah. But but she was from the slave holders family and wanted when she returns to the plantation, she wants Ky to be her personal slave. And how wonderful it'll be for, you know, for Ky to be her Yeah. to be her personal slave and move away from her family to this other plantation. Um Yeah. So you you've said that if you knew about that scene when you accepted the role, you might not have taken it because playing that scene where you're taken away by the new plantation owner that it was Yeah. that it was so horrible. Talk about why it had such an impact on you that you wouldn't have even taken the role.

8:56 Well, because Well, first of all, thank God I knew Sandy Duncan. We had been friends before because otherwise I never would have spoken to her again. Sandy Duncan played the the the white girl who wanted to have you as her personal slave.

9:10 Yes. Yes. And I remember when we finished the scene um there was such a hush. I was still hysterical from it and everything. And uh

9:21 Yeah. Cuz you you had to be hysterical when they were taking your character away. Yeah. And what happened was nobody wanted to talk to Sandy because uh they were just horrified and they kind of looked at her with different eyes and she'll tell you uh she's sorry that she ever did that part because that that scene was just horrifying and she turned

9:44 Yeah, she's watching you and doesn't intervene. Yeah, she's looking out the window and just watching the whole the whole thing. It was tough. Uh, thank God I didn't have to shoot anymore for the rest of the day cuz I wouldn't have been able to. I came home and uh my husband looked at me and said, "Okay, you've had a rough day." And I had a glass of wine and got in the bathtub and just tried to get my thoughts together. And then later on, I called my mother and said, "How could this happen?" And, you know, had a little conversation with her and she said, "That's the way things were back in grandma's day." and we talked about it, but it was rough.

10:25 Um, so you had a remarkable childhood. Let's start with your aunt, Eloise Ugam. She was a dancer at the Cotton Club, which

10:32 No, no, no, no. My mother was a dancer at the Cotton Club. Oh, your mother was a dancer at the Cotton Club.

10:37 She didn't last long because she said they didn't pay enough money and she wasn't Lena Horn.

10:44 Ah, well, yes. Only Lena Horn was Lena Horn. Yes. And uh my aunt Eloise though was a wonderful beautiful singer on Broadway. She did shows like St. Louis Woman with uh Pearl Bailey and she was in Pogy and Bess and she traveled all all over the world doing Pogy and Best. She was also in the USO. She did a lot of things but she was the one that introduced me to a lot of classical music when I was a kid. So, so m like having a career as a performer was something that was within reach because you'd seen it in your own family

11:24 kind of sort of. My father was not thrilled about show business even though his sister you know had been Broadway shows. He he just thought you know they're kind of loose women. My aunt never married, so uh he was kind of like, "Okay, well, she can sing." It wasn't really until I did uh sing along with Mitch that he went, "Oh, well, I guess she might be having a career in in show business because up until then, his thing was he wanted me to go to college and get an education,

11:59 which you did. You went to Giuliard." Well, I I went to Giuliard for a short period of time because then I got famous because of Sing Along with Mitch

12:07 and uh then the schedule got too too crazy for me to do it full-time. Okay. So, before we get to performing on television, let's get to the Apollo Theater.

12:19 Yes. So, you started singing there when you nine years old. I was nine. Nine years old. Okay. Okay.

12:25 Um so, was this a a talent competition or were you just like a featured performer?

12:29 No. What happened was uh the Shiffmans who ran the Apollo Theater had a radio show and it was a contest and they would have a celebrity introduce a young talent and there was a woman named Thelma Carpenter. She introduced me on the radio show and it was a contest and I kept winning every week and it really got to the point where they could not get rid of me. So, the Shiffman's decided to do an act, pay for an act for me and for me to play the Apollo. So, they paid for everything. I did a 20-minute act and made my debut at the Apollo Theater with the great Louie Armstrong.

13:13 What a gift. Hello. What did you pick up from Armstrong about singing? He had such a perfect sense of rhythm.

13:22 Oh, I loved him. I I watched every single performance. I had a little nook on the stage of the Apollo where I could watch everything and I would watch him every single show. Um first of all, he was so loved. He had that kind of warmth that you when you sat in the audience, you could feel it from him. Um he had fabulous musicians when we played at the Apollo. And uh I was always curious about what makes the magic happen between the artists and the audience. And I figured out that you know that you have the audience when they're sitting in their seats and all of a sudden they start moving forward without them real realizing that they are moving forward because they're so captured by what you're doing and into what you're doing.

14:18 And so I learned a lot from him. But you know, I mentioned Armstrong's sense of rhythm. His sense of rhythm was always surprising. Like he would hold notes you wouldn't expect. And um

14:30 well musicians, you know, they and he was so behind the beat. It was like the most relaxed rhythm and it influenced everybody.

14:38 Yeah, he had that. I And then the next person I worked with was Ella Fitzgerald. And boy was that another gift, you know, because and I watched her shows every single show. And uh she'd just walk out there and open her mouth and you you'd go crazy. And she was very quiet uh when we were backstage. In fact, I worked with her. It was during the summertime. And uh I used to play hopscotch in front of the stage door and she'd take a chair and she'd sit out there with my mother and they'd watch me play hopscotch and then the uh

15:13 good child would come and good human would come and she'd buy me ice cream because she thought I was too skinny. She was always trying to fatten me up.

15:22 What was in your repertoire at the time when you were nine? I remember I opened with a song called When You're Smiling. I think my second song was Exactly Like You. Um, Pennies from Heaven, which I also did a soft shoe because I I was a tap dancer as well. And uh, then I had a segment where I did impressions very badly, but I got through it because I was nine and cute.

15:53 Who did you do impressions of? And um, Ted Williams. Uh, oh god, Johnny Ray. I forgot who was the third one, but uh Johnny Ray had a big hit uh Crying in the Chapel.

16:08 Oh, I remember that. Yeah. Um, so I did that and um it was about 20 minute show and I was adorable, but I could sing.

16:21 I'm sure you were. Um, in 2012 you released an album called Uptown Downtown and it was songs that you did in a onew woman show. Um, I think it was probably performed in cabarets.

16:36 It was done at some theaters, regional theaters. In fact, I I started in at the Pasadena Playhouse.

16:44 So, I want to play a song from that. And this is Themir Their Eyes. But these are songs that have personal meaning to you. So tell us about the meaning of this song before we hear it.

16:54 Well, basically the Schiffman's kind of picked the material and uh they loved the song Them Their Eyes and uh I took to it and uh um it was in in that repertoire that I did in the first time I was at at the Apollo.

17:12 Well, let's hear them Their Eyes recorded by my guest Leslie Ugams in 2012. I was just minding my business. Life was a beautiful song. I didn't have a care no worry. Then you had to come along. I fell in love with you the first time I looked into them eyes. You've got a certain little cute way of flirting with them there. eyes. You make me feel happy. You make me blue. No stalling. I'm falling. Falling in a great big way for you. My heart is jumping. You sure started something with them eyes.

18:45 That was Leslie Ugums recorded in 2012 from her album Uptown Downtown. If you're just joining us, my guest is singer and actor Leslie Ugums. She'll soon be in episode seven of The Gilded Age if you want to see her latest thing. We'll be right back. I'm Terry Gross and this is Fresh Air. You're over them. There's danger lurking in.

19:11 This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to my interview with singer and actor Leslie Agams. She started her career at age six on an episode of Bula, which starred Ethel Waters as a maid working for a white family. At around the same time, she started singing at the Apollo. She went on to be a regular on the TV music variety show Sing Along with Mitch. She recorded over 10 albums, starred in the 1967 civil rights Broadway musical Hallelujah Baby, became the second black person and first black woman to host a TV variety show, co-starred in the groundbreaking TV series Roots. More recently, in the series Empire, she played the mother of the main character, Lucius. She played the main character's mother in the film American Fiction. She played blind Al, who hurls insults and expletives in Deadpool movies. and she'll soon be in episode seven of HBO's The Gilded Age. So, I want to talk with

20:05 you about Bula, which starred Ethel Waters as a very wise, like super competent maid and cook in the home of a white family and

20:17 the Hendersons. Yes. Um, and I love Ethel Waters jazz recordings from the 30s. And in Bula that, you know, you can see episodes of Bula on the internet now. And, um, it's kind of fascinating as a piece of history. And I have to say, Ethel Waters carries herself with such dignity. Um, and I imagine she was that way in real life. And I'm wondering what you learned from working with her and talking with her. She was extraordinary and she really took a liking to uh my mother and I and uh whenever she would do what they call a suare little a private uh musical night, she would invite my mother and I and we would always go and I learned so much just watching her. But when I did her show, they wanted my hair to be in pick and niny braids. And Ethel Waters said, "You see how her hair is the way her mother has her hair done now? That's what she's wearing. She's not wearing any picking any braids, you know, because that was

21:28 really slave kind of look." and she stood up right away for me and in that particular episode, but she was wonderful and she thought I had talent. Did it sounds It sounds like your family um was you know had performers and teachers and um you know other professionals. Did anyone in your family as far as you know ever either work as a maid or employ a maid in their home? Um, my mother kind of worked as a she wasn't a a maid for every day, but there was a a psychiatrist that lived not far from our neighborhood, and she would go there. I remember she took me there a couple of times while she cleaned their apartment, but basically my mother was a waitress. That's what she did. And then when I started doing stuff on TV and getting more famous, my father said, "Um, I want you to be with her all the time."

22:31 So he made her quit her job. And my father took on a third job. And he worked three jobs so that my mother could stay home and watch over his little Leslie. When you had your variety show, the Leslie Ugum show, there was a recurring sketch that I think was called the Sugar Hill.

22:50 The folks Yeah. And you grew up in the Sugar Hill Sugar Hill neighborhood of Harlem. The Sugar Hill sketch was about when was set in in Sugar Hill when it was no longer representative of prosperity in Harlem. and like you know you have trouble paying the rent and suddenly you have a black landlord which is really kind of baffling because you're so surprised that a landlord would be black. So when you were growing up in Sugar Hill, what was the neighborhood like?

23:22 Well, I was on the the fringe of uh Sugar Hill because Sugar Hill really kind of stops at like 155th 158th Street. I lived 164th Street, which is more Washington Heights. Uh, so where I lived it was um predominantly a black neighborhood and then later on it became uh more Puerto Rican. So the area went through uh a lot of different changes, but you know, it was a great neighborhood. Um, a lot of hardworking families lived in the neighborhood, you know, 9 toive people that doing the jobs that they could do. Also, a lot of stay at home moms as well. It was an interesting neighborhood because around the corner for me, Frankie Lyman, who became Frankie Lyman, and the teenagers.

24:17 So, there was a lot of music. A lot of us would stay outside our buildings and just sing. We had one neighbor, she didn't appreciate it, and she'd get a pot of water and pour it out the window to stop us from singing.

24:32 Did you sing with Frankie Lyman? A Frankie Lyman. Listen, we used to hang out 165th Street and we'd all sing. Lot of music in my neighborhood. Always a lot of music.

24:45 Frankie Lyman was like this teenage star who had like a falsetto voice, a beautiful voice. Yes.

24:51 He influenced a lot of women singers and he had the big hit, Why Do Fools Fall?

24:55 Why Do Fools Fall in Love? Um, so I, you know, I'm wondering if like class was really confusing to you when you were young because on the one hand, you know, you you have relatives, your aunt was, you know, in show business, had a very successful career. Um you're there were professionals in your family, you know, like doctors and and teachers as as we've said. Um was economic class confusing to you since you traveled to two through two different worlds?

25:28 Well, it wasn't confusing. I just realized that hm some people were living a better life and this was my goal to live a better life. one of my best friends at at school at PCS. Uh we used to hang out all the time and she lived on Central Park West in this building where the elevator opened up into her living room and I was like, "Oh my gosh, I think I would like something like this." And I didn't see any cockroaches as well. And I'm like, "This is the life. How do I get to have this?" Were you plagued by cockroaches?

26:07 Oh god, yes. Are you kidding? They were pets. It was their apartment. We only lived there. But I mean, so I didn't move out of my neighborhood till I was 18. And that was because of Sing Along with Mitch. And I got popular and we could afford to move. And that that changed my life as far as Oh, wow. This is great. I like living like this. But up to then, you know, we lived walked up three flights of steps and and there was no elevator and there was no air conditioning. You open the window when you wanted air. If you're lucky, you had screens. And uh so yes, I was very aware of the different life I was living. But I'll have to tell you a funny story. In the school was also Mary Martin's daughter, Hela. Hela Holiday and she and I became best friends and she had this chaperon that was always with her and uh we got to be very close and so I had been invited to her place.

27:15 her parents lived stayed at uh one of the hotels, very big hotels in New York at the time uh because Mary Martin was always doing a musical on Broadway. And so I invited her up to my place and so they came up to my area, hung out with us. Of course, every kid in my neighborhood all of a sudden was out there on the sidewalk seeing this white girl with a chaperone hanging out with with me and she had the best time ever because there was a park right across the street from where I live. So, we hung out in the park and we had a wonderful day. And I look back and I think, see, I was proud of where I was living no matter what. it was home and she enjoyed that.

28:06 So, let's get to name that tune. And that was a quiz show in the 60s uh where they'd play a few notes of a song and the the competition was about being the first person to recognize the tune. Well, basically you had a person that was on the show as a contestant and then if they went to a certain position in in this quiz show, then the following week was going to be the big thing happening moving towards the $25,000. So at home they say send in seven songs and you may be picked. Well, ironically, my seven songs were picked and I was sitting there watching the show because we used to watch it whenever it was on and I went, "Oh my goodness, I I got so excited about it that I ran out of the house because I was going, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe it." And so I they contacted me and then I became partners with an Italian kosher butcher and named Simon and he answered the seven songs. That's how I became his

29:21 partner and from then on we started going for for the big money. But that that's how I got on Name That Tune. And they asked me, George Dit was the host. And he said, "What do you like to do?" And I said, "I like to sing." And he said, "What do you like to sing?" And at the time, I loved singing. He's got the whole world in his hands. And he said, "So sing." And I sang a capello. Whole world in his hands. And then we did the contest. And Simon and I answered the songs. Well, they got so much mail from that that from then on they'd have me sing every time before I did the contest. And Mitch Miller happened to be watching one night and cuz I sang the Lord's Prayer and Mitch tuned in cuz he had been hearing about this young girl and uh he got in contact with us and said he wanted me to come down to the studio and do some demonstration records. So he wanted to hear how I sounded on a on a record and we went

30:25 down and he liked what he heard and he signed me to Columbia Records and he had not sold Sing Along with Mitch yet. He was still trying to sell it.

30:34 That was such a strange show. I mean Mitch Miller follow the bouncing ball. Follow Yeah. There were lyrics at the bottom of the screen and follow the bouncing ball so you could sing along with Mitch. And it was one of the most, if I may say, squarest shows. But you know what's interesting about that is because Mitch Miller was not square. I mean he did many jazz albums. He played Yeah. He did Charlie Parker with strings.

30:58 Yes. I mean but he knew he had a sense of what was right for television and uh it turned out to be exactly what he thought it was going going to be. But that was a it was a family show and people loved it. I've had people come up to me. I used to watch it with my parents and stuff like that. So he had that sense of what was what was right.

31:24 Stations in the south didn't want to carry the show because you were on it. They didn't want to carry a show with a black performer on it.

31:33 Right. And I I've heard you say that Lena Horn when she was on TV, they'd sometimes like put her separately so that she could be cut out.

31:43 No, that was in movies. That was in movies. In movies. her movies when it played the South, they cut her section out. That's why you if you notice in all a lot of the musicals, she's isolated from anybody else. So that they were able to cut that out. So when we went on the air and we we started getting popular, the South refused to take the show because I was on it, which at the time Mitch kept for me. I had no idea. And um they just refused to do the show. when the sponsors were kind of trying to get him to get rid of me or or isolate me anything because they wanted to sell their products. I believe we we had what was Rango beer or something, you know, we had those different sponsors and Mitch kept saying no, she's part of the family. She's not going anywhere. Well, we became such a hit that the South decided, oh, you know, maybe we will have the show on the air. And some of my best fan mail was from the South.

32:46 Mhm. That's good. Showed them. Showed what what they were missing. Let me ask you about Hallelujah Baby. It opened on Broadway in 1967 with music by Julie Stein and lyrics by Comden and Green. Won a Tony for best musical. This is about the struggle for civil rights. Not many musicals on Broadway revolving around black characters in 1967. What impact did the show have on your life?

33:17 Well, I mean in the theater world, I became a Broadway star. I wound up winning a Tony Award for it. So, it changed my life as far as theater was concerned. The music alone to this day is still relevant. I mean, uh, you sing the song, it's like it was written yesterday. It was thrilling when I look back, um, to be working with the giants of the theater because they were giants. But I never let it face me. And I look back, I think, I go, how did I not let it happen that that it make me crazy? But I loved every minute of it. I love Julie Stein, you know, he'd play the song. I sit by him on the piano and he'd teach me the songs and then calm and green and it it it was magic time. And of course Arthur, most people who know Arthur, Arthur was kind of like a commod. He he was never really happy about any.

34:18 And uh he was kind of like h you know he had Lena in his head for the role. So years later, he said to me, you know, you can sing.

34:32 Yeah. And Arthur Lawrence also wrote the book for Westside Story. Yes. And Gypsy, as you mentioned.

34:37 Yes. One of the great musicals, Gypsy. Yeah. So, I'm going to play, if it's okay with you, my favorite song from Hallelujah Baby, and that's Talking to Yourself. And

34:47 ah, yes. You sound beautiful on this, and I I love the um the arrangement behind you.

34:54 So, let's hear it. and we're going to hear your part. The one you love is standing there. So don't delay it. Say it. Tell him how you miss his voice, his angry mood, his sudden smile. How you've been lonely all the while and tired of talking to yourself. talking to yourself. Is he lonely too? Just acting proud the same as you? Has he been wondering if you care? Don't let him doubt it. Shout it. It's time you smoke. Don't let your chance go up and smoke. Just take a plunge and go for a wind up by yourself. It's lonely talking to yourself.

36:51 I love that song. Me too. Me too. So, moving on in your career, um you had a variety show, the Leslie Agam show starting in 1969 and your show replaced the Smother's Brothers show. The Smother's Brothers show was cancelled because of how controversial it was. Pete Seager sang an antivietnam war song on it and there's a lot of like you know counterculture comedy on it and that the network didn't was not ready for that. So your show comes along and I think it's like your opening episode your guest star is Sly and the Family Stone.

37:35 So yes, I maneuvered that. That was you who who knew that. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. CBS didn't know what hit them.

37:44 I can imagine. Why did you choose Sly? Because I was a big fan of Sly and the Family Stone. My husband and I had seen them in Vegas when I was playing at one of the uh hotels down there and we went to a place after the show and to go dancing and there was Sly and the Family Stone and we went whoa, they're fabulous. And then shortly after that they had, you know, start having hit hit records. And so they were like at the top of my list because that was the music that was happening. And it was a black artist who who were doing it and it was called the Leslie Ugams show. So we're going to have some black people on the show besides just me.

38:30 We became successful more than they thought it was going to be. But they had no plans for me to stay having this show. But uh we had 10 weeks of uh great great times. Great great times.

38:45 Um what year did you get married? 1965. Your husband is from Australia. Yes. He's white. In ' 65 I think. Tell me if I'm right here. Was m was was interracial marriage in parts of the south still illegal then?

39:03 Oh yes. I have to tell you a funny story. Haha. Um when Martin Luther King died, we went down for the funeral and uh we were there with a family friend that had worked with my aunt many years ago at that time. And uh she invited us to come down, fly down with with her and we did. And then we checked into the hotel and grandma and I are in the room and unpacking the things and also this is a loud knock on the door and we go, "What the heck?" We open the door. She goes, "What are you doing? What are you doing?" We said, "Well, we're about to unpack." She said, "You're not you you can't be in this room together." And we're going, "What?" And my husband said, "That's my wife.

39:50 We're not going anywhere. Unbeknownst to to me, I didn't even realize that that was a a law. Then, so I was not thinking about anything. This is my husband and this is how we are and that's it. I was shocked later on when I found out why she was in such a panic. But we didn't change anything.

40:12 Were there other problems you ran into as an interracial couple back then? Uh basically people accepted my marriage because my husband was an American because he was Australian.

40:30 Why did that make a difference? I figured that there's something about then American white man. It's closer to like feeling like a sl he's a slave master. You know what I'm saying?

40:48 Mhm. So, he's not a part of the American drama about race. Exactly. And slavery, so it's maybe a little better cuz he's an outsider.

40:58 Yeah. Um, because you had so many breakthroughs in your career, I'm wondering what your reaction is now to the Trump administration trying to basically do away with all DEI initiatives that they possibly can.

41:17 I'm not happy. I'm not happy. I'm I'm I'm shocked quite frankly. I've seen a lot of things in in my lifetime, but uh I'm waiting for America to come back for us to get our senses together because uh it's just it's just uh how can I express it? Everybody can relate to the arts. It's the one moment where you can go see your favorite person, listen to your favorite person. Um, it brings joy. I in my head I go to sleep with music in my head and I wake up with music in my head. It's a universal language. You don't have to speak the language. You just have to hear the beautiful sounds that someone is making. And to not get these opportunities and try to get rid of diversity and think that there's something wrong with with that. I I just don't get it.

42:22 I don't get it. Leslie Agams, it's just really been a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much.

42:29 Thank you. It's been a wonderful time being with you today. Leslie Agams will be in the August 3rd episode of HBO's The Gilded Age.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Leslie Uggams looks back on decades in show business | Fresh Air"?

Terry Gross (Host), Leslie Uggams (Guest).

What is "Leslie Uggams looks back on decades in show business | Fresh Air" about?

Leslie Uggams reflects on her extensive career in the entertainment industry, highlighting her remarkable journey from a six-year-old performer to a vibrant 82-year-old actress still actively working in major projects like HBO's The Gilded Age and the Oscar-winning film American Fiction. Uggams shares anecdotes from her early days, interactions with music legends, and significant milestones,…

What is mentioned in this Fresh Air episode?

16 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Leslie Ugams, Ethel Waters, Mitch Miller, Sing Along with Mitch, Hallelujah Baby, Deadpool. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Leslie Uggams looks back on decades in show business | Fresh Air"?

The episode runs 43 min; the transcript is about 6,640 words in 90 timestamped sections.

More from Fresh Air

• All analyzed episodes
• Books mentioned on Fresh Air
• People mentioned on Fresh Air
• Topics mentioned on Fresh Air