Transcript

Raphael Saadiq on Love, Loss, and Three Decades of Soul | Fresh Air

From Fresh Air · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 47 min · 8,760 words · 160 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Raphael Saadiq on Love, Loss, and Three Decades of Soul | Fresh Air", an episode of Fresh Air published August 7, 2025 (47 min, about 8,760 words). It mentions 15 people, works and ideas, including Raphael Sadiq, Cowboy Carter, Dwayne Wiggins, Solange, Fender Telecaster.

What this episode is about

Raphael Saadiq reflects on his musical journey over three decades, discussing the importance of live concert experiences without phones to foster a deeper connection among audiences. He also pays tribute to his late brother, Dwayne Wiggins, co-founder of Tony! Toni! Toné!, illustrating the profound impact of personal relationships on his artistry and performances.

Key takeaways

  • Music's magic thrives when phones are off; unplugging amplifies connection far beyond any screen swipe.
  • Embracing life’s duality, sorrow and joy emerge as teachers on stage, enriching the narrative of an artist's journey.
  • In a world of 14 siblings, unity springs from diversity—different homes, shared passions create a symphony of life.
  • Tribute to lost loved ones isn't just remembrance; it shapes the artist's legacy, turning grief into musical gold.
  • Lessons from family loss reveal that vulnerability in performance is the ultimate connection, resonating deeply with audiences.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Raphael Sadiq, Dwayne Wiggins, Oakland Coliseum
  2. – 10:00: Timothy Christian Riley, Union Baptist
  3. – 15:00: Fender Telecaster, Grammy
  4. – 20:00: I Lied to You, Cowboy Carter, 16 Carriages, Bodyguard
  5. – 25:00: Solange
  6. – 30:00: Modesto, California
  7. – 35:00: Cowboy Carter, Solange
  8. – 40:00: Raphael Sadiq, Fender Telecaster
  9. – 45:00: Sly Stone

Notable quotes from "Raphael Saadiq on Love, Loss, and Three Decades of Soul | Fresh Air"

  • Raphael Sadi, welcome to Fresh Air.
    about Raphael Sadiq · at
  • Trying to get people a free moment hope they enjoyed it you pay tribute at the concert to your brother Dwayne Wiggins. you all co-ounded Tony. He passed away earlier this year.
    about Dwayne Wiggins · at
  • Yeah, it was. It was written by Timothy Christian Riley. and he brought it to me. We were actually in Los Angeles when he gave me a CD of the music and we were working on it in.
    about Timothy Christian Riley · at
  • Gone, which you actually had a chance to do that. What was it like 2011?
    about Grammy · at
  • Yeah. Because he pulled out his harp and we play blues, you know. I always have a guy just better than me playing with me.
    about Fender Telecaster · at
  • James Jamerson. I want to ask you about a project that you just got done completing that we've all experienced sinners. what a movie. And you co-wrote the film signature song I lied.
    about I Lied to You · at
  • About your process in writing songs for other people, too. congratulations being part of that big win. Beyonce's album Cowboy Carter won best country album and album of the…
    about Cowboy Carter · at
  • I would say it'd be my favorite collaboration would be Solange.
    about Solange · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Raphael Sadiq — Person · Main guest · 2 mentions · first at
    Primary interview subject discussing his one-man show, musical upbringing in Oakland, grief and creativity, and collaborations (film and major artists).
  • Dwayne Wiggins — Person · Referenced person (family member and bandmate) · 1 mention · first at
    Central personal thread: Sadiq’s brother, musical mentor, and co-founder of Tony! Toni! Toné!; discussed in the context of tribute, grief, and early musical development.
  • Solange — Person · Referenced collaborator (favorite collaboration) · 3 mentions · first at
    Presented as Sadiq’s favorite collaboration; he describes working closely on her album process and cites her creative bravery and decision-making.
  • Timothy Christian Riley — Person · Referenced collaborator (bandmate/songwriter) · 1 mention · first at
    Credited as the writer who brought in the song discussed during a pivotal personal tragedy; also appears in the Sly Stone church anecdote as playing organ.
  • Sly Stone — Person · Referenced influence · 1 mention · first at
    Discussed as a foundational musical influence; Sadiq recounts a church connection via Sly Stone’s father and reflects on Sly’s impact on popular music.
    Sly Stone, I want to talk to you a little bit about legendary musician just passed away. Was a big influence on you? I Is it true that Sly's father was.

Companies & orgs

Products & tech

  • Cowboy Carter — Product · featured product · 2 mentions · first at
    Award-winning album by Beyoncé
  • Fender Telecaster — Product · instrument used · 2 mentions · first at
    Iconic guitar model mentioned in music context
  • I Lied to You — Product · featured song · 2 mentions · first at
    Signature song from the film Sinners
  • 16 Carriages — Product · featured song · 1 mention · first at
    Song from Beyoncé's award-winning album
    About your process in writing songs for other people, too. congratulations being part of that big win. Beyonce's album Cowboy Carter won best country album and album of the…
  • Bodyguard — Product · featured song · 1 mention · first at
    Song from Beyoncé's award-winning album
    About your process in writing songs for other people, too. congratulations being part of that big win. Beyonce's album Cowboy Carter won best country album and album of the…

Places & events

  • Grammy — Event · 1 mention · first at
  • Oakland Coliseum — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Wanted to sort of give people that type of feeling that I got as a shorty going to the Oakland Coliseum and watching the OJS. I could see them walking up the stairs. I could…
  • Union Baptist — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Let me jump. Let me jump in. Let me jump in. But my voice, I found my voice probably at Union Baptist, this church on 71st Avenue in Oakland, California.
  • Modesto, California — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Know, but all in fun, but then some days it's not fun. But boxing is a whole different skill. So, I opened up a boxing gym in Modesto, California with my nephew, Alvie Wiggins…

Full transcript with timestamps

the musicians don't want to say, but you love this more than you love your girl.

You have to reel it in after a while. You okay, the instrument is second and and the girl is first.

Raphael Sadi, welcome to Fresh Air. Thank you. Good to be here. No phones, a one-man show.

Several hours, just you locked into the audience. Why did you want the audience to put away their phones? I wanted them to experience what I experienced when I was going to concerts, you know, and I wanted to sort of give people that type of feeling that I got as as a shorty going to the Oakland Coliseum and watching the OJS. I mean, I could see them walking up the stairs. I could see the lights on their shoes. I could see the lights on the amps. I paid attention to so much detail and I wanted to see if I can give people that feeling, especially if somebody brought their kids to the show.

So, when there's no phones, you know, I don't know. I I just I like it. I tried it. I didn't know if it was going to work. I tried in on the Tony's last tour.

That tour before this, the tour before that we did it. And you know, being a group that's already been out for like 25, 30 years, just like what nerve do you have? Tried to come out and take our phones. But then I think people it's like a the testimonies I heard people said well

they got a chance to hug kiss dance with each other and things that they don't do like it was you know see Earthwind and Fire the show

you're singing you know you got your fist pumping you dancing you have your hands are free

you're just ving you're free you know trying to get people a free moment hope they enjoyed it

you pay tribute at uh the concert to your brother um Dwayne Wiggins. Um you all co-ounded Tony Tony Tony. He passed away um earlier this year.

I want to offer my condolences first as a fan. Thank you. Yeah. Um he was your Michael Jordan growing up. He he taught you how to play instruments. You have you played a bunch of instruments for this tour by yourself and he was one of those folks that was instrumental in teaching you. Yes, he was definitely uh Dwayne was definitely um inspiring the whole time. Um he was already killing it pretty much as a kid, you know, in the neighborhood. And we had a we we live in two separate homes, you know, we have same the same fathers, uh not the same mother. So, we had two totally different lives

when it came to what our households were like. But as far as music, he sort of showed me the way because he loved music so much. I loved it too, you know, my dad loves music and it just sort of happened. But he um he definitely was the guy like, "Oh, he could play bass." Tell my dad, you know, like, you know, he could play and if you don't buy him a bass, I'm going to buy it for him. You know, he he was that type of dude like always want to help. And um

How many years apart were you guys? I think five five years apart. Five years apart. Yeah.

One thing that uh is so interesting about you, 14 siblings, 14 brothers and sisters. And where were you? Where are you on the

Well, that's that's including my dad's family before me. Yes. So, um with everybody in that 14, I'm the youngest boy.

Yes. Then there would be a younger girl from the other side. But in my my house, I was the youngest.

Yeah. Yeah. So, it was two girls and two boys and I was the youngest in that house.

Yes. But I was born late, so I was the only one in the house the whole time. I know this whole situation cuz I think we know with families where it's like two different families, but you put it all together, but it's kind of separate when you really think about your childhood.

It's definitely separate. It just it just sound kind of, you know, glorified to say it was 14, you know, but it was really 14 when you just say this is the neighborhood. This is like everybody who who love each other, who know each other, who you know you can call for different things. So it was 14 when it came to that.

Yeah. But in the house it was four. Yeah. You all are so well known in Oakland because that's where you then grew up. And one of the things that you've been doing lately, especially over the last few years, is really revealing for us, even in this one-man show, the beautiful moments, the things that make you who you are, but also the tragedies of your 14 siblings. You've lost several of them now. Is it It's five now, including Dwayne.

Yeah, it's five now. Yeah. Yeah, it's five. Um, you know, just if it's life, um, I hate to say it, it's kind of normal.

It's normal, but it's something that just over the last few years, you've really been sitting with and talking about publicly.

This oneman show, I mean, you spend a lot of time talking about those influences of your siblings who have passed away. What is it about now that you want it to to be this revealing?

I've always talked about it, you know, with friends. Everybody knows, my friends know. I tell everybody the stories. Um, I think for the one man show, I wanted people to know the trajectory of what of my life because, you know, the music, you you hear the music, you hear all the pretty things and

and I I wanted people to see and hear you can still show some of the beautiful sides through dark times. And I I think that's what I really want to do. And every time I spoke about it, I think that's what I was doing, you know. I it was also self- therapy a little bit, you know. Um and it made sense to talk about it in in in in detail because sometime people think they know you or you know, they think they know you a little bit and I'm like, okay, you do know me. We did grow up together through music, but here's the other side. a version of you. Right. Here's the other side.

Exactly. One of those examples of something that you created that was beautiful out of tragedy was the hit song that everybody knows, everyone loves from Tony Tony Tony. It never rains in Southern California.

That was written around the same time you lost your sister Sarah. Yeah, it was. It was written by um Timothy Timothy Christian Riley. Um and he brought it to me. We were actually in Los Angeles when he he gave me a a CD of the music and we were working on it in Salelo at the time and I got a phone call that my sister got in a car accident and she was on life support. So I actually went to the hospital and they pulled her off the machine that same time I went there and then I had to go back to the studio to finish the song.

So that's uh the song was already written a little bit. Yeah. But I I still had to go finish. So I said like again it was a part of uh not living in it, just kind of jumping right back in it, driving, you know, the the Bay Area is very beautiful. So you get a chance to drive over, you know, near uh Salelo, look at the water,

you know, and then you drive into this beautiful place and then you go to this place with all these beautiful like um trees and you walk back in the studio and you just continue

and you know, so that's uh that's not how it came about, but that's how it got finished.

Yeah. Having to get on the mic and sing this beautiful song that is it's also pretty romantic. It is like the song that kind of folks that are in new young love kind of uh tap into. At least I did when I was that age. Um

I think that's just really powerful. It's kind of like the hallmark of your music.

Yeah, it definitely is. Um you know, it comes with a lot of influences too, you know, from different artists. And um you know when you're singing a slow song uh a song is slow sort of this love love ballad and this is our second album. So at this point I'm just figuring out how to sing this type of record too. So there's a lot of things in my head because I've never seen a a slow um love ballad ever.

This was your first one. That was the first one. Yeah, that's the first one. So you you're discovering things about your voice. You're discovering things about the music, how to complete it, and you're thinking about, you know, people um records you heard from Jeffrey Osborne to Lionel Richie, the Commodores to Earthwind and Fire, Switch, The Barge. I mean, you have all these different things like, you know, going through your head, you know, all these all these things that you're not even sharing with the people that you're working on the song with.

Yeah. Yeah. you uh grew up with uh musicians all around you. You mentioned how Dwayne kind of taught you a lot of instruments, bass and um lots of different instruments, but when did you find your voice? When did you know that you could sing?

Well, as far as playing bass, Dwayne was more instrumental in the bass. All the other instruments were taught to me by my friends who all play different music instruments. So when you have friends who play different instruments, you know, it's like playing a video game. You're like, "Let me see the let me see. Let me let me jump. Let me jump in. Let me jump in." But my voice, I found my voice probably at Union Baptist, this church on 71st Avenue in Oakland, California. Um, I was asked to sing a song with all the Tiny Tots had to sing a song on Easter Sunday.

And this lady named um, uh, we call her Sister Nation, she was the pastor's wife. She handed me a piece of paper and said, "You're singing this song on Sunday." We got a chance to rehearse it one time and then on Sunday you're singing.

How old were you? I don't know, seven. Yeah. And I was singing a song and people started responding when I was singing. Sung was embarrassing at the words. It was his gospel song. It was like, you know, if I was naked without bread or meat and my friends was like in the audience crying, laughing. But when I sang it at church, people responded like go and I heard it. But it it more or less made me more nervous,

you know, cuz they kept responding like I was doing a good job. And then I didn't do it anymore. I didn't do it anymore until um I played in some local bands and I would playing cover songs. I would sing um this song by Mr. Mister called um Broken Wings.

I sang that like in the 12th grade playing bass and singing. I sang the single life by Cameo.

Those were the next songs I sang. And then pretty much I didn't like being a front guy. I didn't want to be a front guy.

You didn't? No. I I was playing in a band where there was two other lead singers and I those are the two songs that I sang in the band and so I stayed away from being the front person and when the Tony started ended up singing um Lil Walter and the producers Danny and Tommy thought that I should sing more songs and that's how I became a front guy. So, it wasn't always in the plan for you to be

Oh, never. I don't I don't want to be a front guy. I didn't want to be a front guy at all. I wanted to play bass for people who sing really good and maybe be on a big tour. I mean, my dream would have been like early in my career to play for the Stones, you know, and just be gone, you know, be play for some big group that does stadiums and just be gone,

which you you actually had a chance to do that. What was it like 2011? Um, the Stones asked you to play with them um on the Grammy stage. MC Jagger. Yes. MC Jagger. Is it true he said, "I'm not going to perform unless I have Raphael performing with us."

Yeah, we performed and I think the Grammys doesn't let anybody perform that just not nominated at the time.

Ah, okay. And I think he was like, I don't care. He's MC Jagger, right? He's playing with me.

Yeah. And then that was it. And he called and um then we did and he's uh he's amazing. He he he loves all the music we love, of course. You know, he loves, you know, Holland Wolf, buddy guy. He loves like like Lightning Hopkins, all the blues that I grew up listening to, that's what the Stones are made of. I think the best thing hanging out with Mick was we both agreed like we had more fun at rehearsal than we did at the Grammys.

Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Because he pulled out his harp and we play blues, you know. I always have a guy just better than me playing with me. So, it was good to like, you know, have, you know, Mick jump into our circle and then he said, "Let's run some blues." And we like, "Let's run it." Where did you learn to have people playing with you better than you?

I think I've always had the sensibility that you're better when you have people better than you around you in every aspect. You shouldn't have people I mean that's the way I think. I think you should always have people better than you so you can learn. You know you I like to learn. So I I try to keep people musicians around me that's that's better than me than on the instrument. You don't need to play with me if you're not better than me.

You've always gravitated to music of previous generations. You're like an old soul like in modern packaging. What is it about that that older music that you feel like is just always you've tapped into?

It has a feeling. It has a feeling. And um the the late great Isaac Hayes told me there's no such thing of old school.

It's either you've been to school or you didn't. Right? I was schooled, you know. So, it's like math. Numbers don't get old. Numbers are the same.

It's the only thing in life that doesn't change is numbers. Music, the feeling of music doesn't change. So, you want to get the feeling from way way back. And you want to take that feeling and and inject it to something new.

I just I didn't know that I was doing that. It's just something that I got turned out on when I was a kid. You know, it's whatever you get turned out by when you're young is what you end up being.

Was your mom playing records in the house? Music in the house? I know your dad was a musical guy.

Yeah, my dad was a musical guy, but he didn't play records in the house and he wasn't in the house. He was in the house with me till I was seven and we they lived separate. But my sister Janice played more records than anybody in my house. And um my sister Sarah was uh played a lot of records, a lot of blues records, singing a lot of Millie Jackson, a lot of Stormy Monday. Um but my neighborhood, I got to give it up for my neighborhood. There was so many homes, you know, walking through my neighborhood was like a film. Every house was a different soundtrack, different music in every house. I would go to my friend's uh my friend's house. His dad was a bass player and I would walk in the house, there'd be a bass sitting against the wall. The amp is on, his father didn't like, nobody touched the bass. Then I walked in and asked like, "Can I play your bass? Can you play?" And I played and I'm the only person he played that

bass, you know. Um, what do you love about the bass in particular? Bass made me feel big. I was so little, you know. I was a, you know, probably a buck, probably 99 pounds when I was at age eight, you know. Bases had this big sound. Um, I heard it on Mottown records like Pride and Joy by Marvin Gay. And when I when I first heard that record, I didn't know what I was hearing. But then when I heard the sound of it, I identified with it pretty quick. And later on, I would find out I was listening to one of the greatest bass players of

all time. All times. Who was it? Um, James Jamerson. I want to ask you about a project that you just got done completing that we've all experienced sinners. Um, what a movie. And you co-wrote the film signature song I lied to you with Lewig Goransson. Um, it's performed by Miles Canton. He's got like this deep resonant voice that feels like it's come from another time. He's so young, but he's got like this really uh rich voice. And that song that you co-wrote, it really serves as this emotional centerpiece for the film. It's a pivotal moment. Tell me about um that line, they say the truth hurts, so I lied to you. You wrote that, right?

Yeah, I did. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me about that line. Well, that's a that's a little mischievous boy line. You know, I I should think about if you lied to your girlfriend and it's like you like, well, they say the truth hurts, so I lied to you. I didn't want to hurt you, so I just lied. I've always had that in my head, that concept of a song.

Why? Why do you think? Yeah. Because I thought it would always be a great blues song.

So once I Ryan told me about the movie and I'm, you know, what he was telling me, I'm like, "This this could work." And just sort of changed the words around from what I thought I could say. And um because I'm now I'm thinking about a pastor, a father,

right? Because in the story line, it is Miles talking to his father who is a pastor,

right? Not telling it truth, but he he loves his dad, but he loves music. Yep. Doesn't want to hurt his dad to say, "I want to go play in this club because I still love the Lord. I still love church,

but that I got to go. Maybe I'll make it back." That was a line you've been holding on to for quite some time. And this is kind of how you work. You have songs that you present to artists. You have lines for lyrics that are kind of just always living with you.

Yeah. Maybe because I'm sort of a a lazy lyricist. So I don't I don't think I like I just write everything down.

I like this last minute type of um energy that makes me, you know, you need it now. I need it now. I like that. I like that pressure sometime.

I want to talk to you just a little bit about um your process in writing songs for other people, too. Um congratulations being part of that big win. Uh Beyonce's album Cowboy Carter won best country album and album of the year at the Grammys. And you produced and wrote two of the songs 16 Carriages and Bodyguard. Congratulations.

Thank you. Um, I've heard you say you don't remember the experience, but one thing you do remember is that you guys had a lot of fun. This particular song, Bodyguard, though, you presented that to to Beyonce, but that wasn't necessarily the song she can choose and she chose that of yours.

Yeah, that song um I was going through my Dropbox and I was playing songs in a room with her. She was in the room. Jay-Z was in room. Jay and a few some of the staff. And I was looking for a song. I don't think the I don't think the phone was even hooked up to the speakers. And I played it and I stopped it real quick cuz that's not the song I wanted to play. And I didn't think it was something that she even liked. But she caught it in like two seconds. She goes, "What? What's that?"

And I'm go, "Oh, that's um this this idea that I had." And I played it and she liked. She's like, "What are you doing with it?" And that's how it got on the record.

That guitar at the end, that was also not planned, right? That's Is that you? Yeah, that's me. Yeah.

Yeah, that was um Well, she wanted a solo. Be wanted a solo. And And so we did I did a solo and she was like, "Can we make it longer?" And you never hear that from an artist in 2025 playing a guitar solo. They want it longer, but she she knows her she knows she knows her audience and she knows that is rare and she I think we could do that. We can we can we can have a 16 bar solo on this record. So that was a little bit of pressure to go back in there and play like a 16 bar solo.

Yeah, because I would have called my boy I would have called Eric Gails. Who is Eric Gail?

Eric Gails is one of the most amazing guitar players in the world today. He's from Memphis, Delta Blues. He was the guy that's playing. He played a lot of guitar in centers.

So, you see the guy playing guitar that's actually in the movie, my friend, his name is Charlie Burrell. He's actually the guy holding the guitar in the movie, but the the the young man who's playing guitar is his name is Eric Gells.

He's um he comes from a a a family of blues, you know, just he's he's amazing. You should look him up. He's he's amazing. But I would have called him

Yeah. to play, but he was on tour, so I had to play it, you know. Came out good.

I love how I had to play it. Had to play it. I like spreading I like spreading it around.

Yeah. Something about that about Beyonce choosing that song where you mistakenly played it, but then you're like, "Oh." And she says, "No, what is that?" I've heard you say both she and Solange because you wrote Cranes in the Sky for A Seat at the Table um her album that they make choices like that. is sort of like the mark of a great musician is to go outside the box, the places that aren't safe. Um, it just made me very interested to know more about

how you write these songs. Many many times they're for yourself and then many years later you might present them to an artist like Beyonce or Solange and um you can tell about just how brave they are and how far they're going to go with it based on the choices they make on your selection. Yeah, definitely. Um, I don't know. I guess it's in the water in Houston. That family, they're really particular about what they like as far as design, style, you know, staging, and you know what you can pull off. And um, it's not a lot of artists that take those chances. They take chances. And music is about taking chances, taking risks, um lasting longer than your teacher or your executives or labels or anything like that. You know, for me, it's like what chance are you going to take if you're if you're if you're playing music?

Um you have to be you have to dare to suck. And a lot of people don't don't do that. I don't I don't fault people that don't do that, but when you run into people that do, you have to know like um I'm going to try myself. I'm going to try to not be different. I'm going to try to do something that I like first and secondly, I hope it's the audience that likes it also. But first, I have to like it.

Have you always been like that for yourself as an artist? Dare to suck. I've always been like that. I didn't know what I was doing. So, I had to find the words later on through different people. Um, you know, dare to suck came from this um um acting coach that I was working with one time and she's like, "You got to dare to suck." And I was like, "Wow, that's a that's pretty good because I did suck at acting." So, I was like, "So, that's a good point." Um, I just took that and ran with that. Then I realized in music I did that a lot because you know you're not you're not always going to be good. You might everybody's starts

somewhere somewhere. Acting. Well, I took a acting class because it wasn't for acting. It was it was for stage. I just wanted to get a little bit past myself, you know? I didn't want to be always thinking I was this artist Rafael Sadi. It's like, no, I wanted to get out that shell and just, you know, walk in a room with people where I wasn't good and where we have these um these different drills that we do that I was going to be pretty embarrassed to do them in front of people or read a a monologue and and that's better people in the class way, you know, way better than me that was killing it. And I had to stand up in front of this class at uh Susan. This is class in New York that I went to. And I went to a school. I went to a place in New York where I knew it was going to be

some serious actors. Serious actors. And wait, at what what point in your career was this?

This was probably in 2010. Oh, so this was beyond Tony Tony Tony Lucy Pearl. Okay.

Of course. Yeah, definitely. And yeah, I went in this class and I was like, "Wow." They're like, "We have like like five minutes to learn this piece and you got to read it in front of people. They're going to film you and then the class is going to watch it back and critique you." That was the worst thing I ever heard in my life. And I did it, you know. I did suck, but I did it. You know,

is there a particular lesson from that that stuck with you that you use on stage now as just a part of your act?

Yes. I mean is I think I think what I did what I learned from it is you know you have to walk out there and you know take it all in especially it really came to to be a great part for my one man show because just it's just me and I have to walk out to an audience where I'm not you know you don't hear drum roll in the beginning it's just me. I open it up. I say something to the audience and they're used to me coming out, you know, you know, it's not that. This is something else. And so I think, you know, um being in I really like good acting. I like um I'm a huge fan of like Most Death. I'm a huge fan like Jeffrey Wright,

you know, people that's like take their craft, you know, um Mr. Cheeto who? Don Cheeto.

Don who takes that craft really serious. So, um, like you do with music like I do with music. Denzel, you know, people that like, you know, that you that you I I could I see I used to see like Denzel like like every other few days. We used to work out the same boxing gym

and he's just so cool, so solid and you know, but seeing these people to do plays and musicals, you know, every night, you know, you're walking out in front of people and they're they're they're expecting something and you're expecting something, too. I think the acting class just showed me that there's people out there working on the craft

even to to your job, you know, to come here and do interviews with people. You have to prepare. And I think um

I was already preparing when I was playing music, but that just showed me just like, you know, just go for it, you know just

Yeah. really prepare. Boxing. Yeah. You're a big boxer. No. No, I'm not a big boxer. No, I love boxing. I did train boxing, but I I trained it to to be in to be in shape. I did spar a little bit, you know, but I was too old already to be getting hit in my head.

Yeah. And you It's no way not to get hit in your head. But what boxing does for you, it just gives you, you don't really fight, you know? You're not out there fighting all the time. So,

you just need to know how to use your hands. My dad was a boxer. You know, somebody walk up on, you just got to know you can give them, you know, a two-piece and a biscuit. You're not going to be running, you know, if you get hit in your face, you're not going to like stop fighting, right?

And if you don't know what it is like to be hit, you just and you might be in shock when you get hit. And I took a I took boxing up because I didn't want to be shot in in shock if I was in a fight and you get a blow to your jaw. You got to you got to keep going forward, not backwards.

Wow. When did you learn that? Oh, I come from a fighting family. Yeah. You know, Yeah. I come from a fighting family. like uh fighting neighbors, you know, but all in fun, you know, but then some days it's not fun. But boxing is a whole different skill. So, I opened up a boxing gym in Modesto, California with my nephew, Alvie Wiggins called Charlie Ray Boxing, and it was more to get kids off the street, giving them a place to go to to be, you know, educate them about, you know, school and and also how to use their hands and and how to commit to something. And then so it's over like 30 30 40 kids that go there and they train they box and they go they get out of school. They do their homework and then they have a place to go talk to adults and um this one kid used to be scared to walk home cuz he people bothered him.

Um he joined the gym and two months later you want to ride home. He was like no

I got this. I'm walking home. Wow. He's ready. Yeah. You know, the thing about boxing too, um, when I always watch it, I'm just always thinking it's sports in general, but like with boxing in particular there's um strategy there's rhythm and and timing.

Timing. Yeah, timing. You could time them shots. Yeah. It's a lot. It's a lot of timing. I mean, people people talk crazy about Floyd Mayweather, but that's just a bad boy. You know what I mean? It's like just that all all fighters. I mean, I see guys that um all kind of gyms. I I just admire that that you come to work to defend yourself and to learn and to have stamina to to to fight, you know, until

in your career. We're fighting too, you know, we're playing music, we're talking to different people. Um you you just got to know you got to know how to move. I there's so much you can learn in boxing. It's so interesting something you said like you got to know how to move. You've been in the music industry for a really long time. And one of the through lines that I actually saw, I think many people saw, I'm not the only one. Between these two big projects that you were a part of, Beyonce's Cowboy Carter and Sinners in particular, like they're really taking on like the eraser of black creatives in music. And I'm always just marveling at an artist like you that's been able to hold on to that creative. so tight while moving through an industry that is a business.

I think for me to I feel very blessed and fortunate to be a part of like two different type of creatives, you know. So, I'm a creative, they're a creative, and wherever I can um sort of be a person that can help, you know, I've always seen myself as being like this sort of like a if you need something, if I can add to it, that's all I want to do, you know? No eagle, no eagle inside of it. And I think that's it, you know. But as far as being in the business, I never really seen myself as being in the record business.

What do you mean by that? People always ask me say, "So, how is it being in the business?" I'm like, "I don't think I've ever been in it. I think I'm just a friend of the brand."

Friend of the brand. Okay, say more. Oh, the friend of the brand. So, I sort of got that from New Balance. Like, I love like New Balance shoes, right?

New Balance shoes, right? So, um was talking to them. you got to wear I wear their shoes on on the tour on the Tony's tour and it was they were explaining to me like they didn't need any more ambassadors of the brand right but they do have this thing called friend of the brand that different people you might do like a online commercial I did like an online commercial running with them during the Olympics um and when they mentioned friend of the brand I was like I like that I think that's who I've been

in the music indust in the music industry. I've never really been in it. I've never really been in it. I just like a friend of the brand because I'm a fan of a lot of artists. And

what does being a friend of the brand mean? It mean that I don't really care about hanging around things to get to to move forward, you know. Um I play the game from a musical standpoint, right? music is what we need. That's what I love to do. There's nothing wrong with like, you know, I've never had uh a Clive Davis or um a Jimmy Ivine or LA Reed as my um um henchmen, my my corner guy is going to make sure that I move

executives that are kind of like moving along with you, like your go, you know?

What do you think your secret is? Do you think it's timing when you came into the world or do you think that it's I'm just thinking about all of those blues artists that you admire so much that were definitely about the music. They weren't about the business, but over time they kind of got messed over or didn't reap the rewards of what they contributed.

Yeah, it's it's hard not to get messed over. I mean, we all going to we all going to run into that part. But if if if you love it, you have to take care of what they call, you know, business, which is, you know, you have to take care of that. But I think I've been a fly on the wall so much. I got a chance to to watch a lot of people and also watch myself do some things not so so well, right? But then, you know, um you're able to turn that around. you know, you're able to uh we we we we like to call it like pick up the cross and like every day you have to die every day and forget about it and move forward,

right? And I just think with for me um I just been able to watch everybody and talk to people talk to people like Lana Richie, talk to people like Steve E wonder and talk to people like uh Kenny Edmonds Babyface who's a great person to talk to if you nervous about being in a business or you don't know what's going on. That's the person I would tell people to call.

You've been a student. I'm a student 100%. You don't know. You don't know. Do you have a favorite collaboration of all time?

I would say it'd be my favorite collaboration would be Solange. Um, Seat at the Table.

Seat at the Table. It's my favorite. It's my favorite album of all time. Yeah. What do you love the most about it?

I love the process. Um, you know, we were there for the whole album in my studio. Um, she started them the first part of her record different places, but then in the end we got together and went through the whole record and her process of just uh being able to to listen to her and take her ideas and watch her write lyrics, watch her come up with different, you know, watching her design her show from fashion to artwork and then all coincide with the music was a beautiful, beautiful thing to much.

All right, Raphael, you brought a friend with you. I did. Yes. I don't know why, but

cuz we wanted you to. It's your limited edition Raphael Sadiq. That's why I brought it.

Yes. Yeah. We're just going to talk about it. Yes. Yeah. This is my um limited edition Fender Telecaster. Um Fender was so nice to um let me design my own guitar. It's uh it's based around my instant vintage album cover. So the act what I the um the little outfit I wore. This is sort of the print.

Oh, the print is there. That paisley line. Yeah. Um I mean you say it's so nice that they allowed you to do it, but it's an honor. It's a limited series.

No one's definitely honored, but I'm I'm a bass player first. Yeah. So, so most of my friends who play guitar, you know, we it's we joke around like, how in the hell you get a guitar and I'm like, you definitely deserve it more than me. But um yeah, this is going to be hard to play with this. I like it because it's uh as a bass player, I need like this body to be against me and this uh feels good against my body and it's uh it has that that

What is that when you say it has that? What is that? It has that uh it has that bite to it. It just bites

and so when you're writing on it, it just gives me that um it gives me that information to just keep, you know,

um going forward and I know the bass is coming next. Yeah. But I love uh this stripe on the neck and like when I was a kid when I would see a guitar with this on the back of it which was Fender I I just really took the the artwork from Insta Vintage and I wanted that color and I wanted the this pig. It's called a pig guard. This is where you Yeah,

this um it's like this pretty pick. I wanted that. I wanted this black stripe around the trims. I wanted this to feel like a car, like an old school car in Oakuckland. Like you know we have like candy a candy colored Mustang 67 Mustang or a cooler or you know

driving down Telegraph driving down Telegraph you know there's like an energy shift from you when you pick up that guitar.

Yeah of course yeah I'm at home and I pick up the guitar any instrument I'm like yeah this is you know this is what we get caught up doing. This is like a This is when you like you know a kid and you find something that you love and and you know you you love I mean musicians don't want to say it but you love this more. You love your girl.

You have to reel it in after a while. You okay the instrument is second and and the girl is first. But you know

how often are you like chilling with your instruments? Like you learned to play the piano during the pandemic, right?

I did. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I have guitars everywhere I go. Everywhere. I have I had over like 300 guitars

from bases. Yeah. Together. Yeah. Is there a warm-up ritual that you do? No. No. No. No. No. No. No. Blues guys are

No. We just There's no warm up. Piano. There is scales, you know. But you just get into it.

You just get into it. Piano. I mean, I came into piano, you have to learn scales and you have to like, you know, work it out

because my fingers are like way different on the piano and, you know, piano is a I mean, the way people play guitar, they really really like practice, practice, practice is a whole different level.

Yeah. Guitar playing um I'm just more of like the guitar player that comes in the studio

and the more you the more you play, the better you get. But now that I'm practicing piano, it's it's um sort of showing me um how to practice on guitar.

Oh, how so? Well, the way you practice on piano, like the hours that you put in the piano, you have to because I'm trying to play classical and jazz. And so when you practicing with a piano teacher, you know, every week you're practicing on a piece or you learning something. guitar was more um like you learned how to cook with your mother in the house, you know,

just by Yeah. Just by My mother is not measuring things in a measuring cup, she just knows how much to put in. She knows it.

What made you pick up the piano or decide to to take the piano? Well, I started playing piano, too, when I was younger. I couldn't stay with it. I was too focused on being outside playing with my friends. I I talk about in the in the one man show about how my teacher told me when I I was quitting and she said, "You you really going to wish you had have kept playing and I knew she was telling the truth."

How old were you then? Um I was like maybe 10 10 or 11 and I knew she was telling the truth but I was didn't have the attention span and I really wanted to be playing basketball with my friends outside and but I knew I was doing the wrong thing but I just said I I'll just I'll take the hit

and I'll get back to it. And the pandemic happened and I got back to it. Now, I always write on piano and like play a little bit, but this is different because you're you're trying to, you know, trying to, you know, get your fingers right. You're trying to learn to read music. You know, I played trombone in school, so I I'd always read some type of music, but

you don't use it, you lose it. Then I lost all of it. So now, you know, you're back to

I'm back to it. Sly Stone, I want to talk to you a little bit about legendary musician just passed away. Was a big influence on you? I Is it true that Sly's father was your pastor?

No, he wasn't. He wasn't my pastor, but we were in the same church district. Um it's called Cold Church of God in Christ. And his dad was a part of that network. and um he visit visit visited the church that I went to um and he uh preached preached at this church and and I think I was playing drums and Tim was Timothy Riley was on Oregon and the father and Sly's dad was in the pull pit preaching and we're having this conversation while he preaching like that's Sly's dad that's Sly's dad Sylvester that's the real Sylvester

right that's the OG Sylvester that's the OG Sylvester pastor and he just looked he just stopped preaching and looked over at us and just said if you ever get out there in the world, you know, be careful. Just be careful.

That was his advice to you. Yeah. I mean, right on the microphone in front of the church.

How did you interpret what he was saying to you? I knew exactly what he was talking about. He was saying, you know, it's just it's a lot out there, but be careful. It's drugs out there. um a lot of temptation, a lot of things that can get you into a place where you don't want to be. And you know, we already heard the records when Sly was like, "Look at Mr. Stewart. He's the only one." You know, that's what was on life. Tell it like it is. You don't have to live. You don't you don't have to die before you live.

Right. Sly was teaching you that in his music. Yeah. Yeah. And then his father was saying, "Don't be like Sly

in a in a preacher type of way." But every preacher was like that, you know. But um besides the I don't even want to say goat. That's that don't even that doesn't even

do it do him justice. him justice. He was definitely um inspiration for everybody. Um all he he he was like Steph Curry. He changed the game of music

completely. And I know that cuz I I talked to the late great uh Maurice White and we hung out a lot and he I said, "So man, who were you trying to what was what was your inspiration?" He said, "Man, you know what? I was really just trying to be like the from the, you know, the boys up your way." I'm like, "Cool, Sly." Then I was listen when I listened to Earth and Fire, I could hear it

how how his inflections on his word um some of the words he used and how he sings. And then I start thinking everybody was really trying to be like Sly. He's an amazing songwriter. He's amazing piano player, organ player, and um and he was smart, brilliant, intelligent, you know, he he was intellectual guy. He you know, he was um he understood theory even though he just got he had the god-given gift just to play music without without any theory.

Did you all ever have a chance to jam together? Well, we hung out before u a couple times. Well, we hung out one time at at Eddie Murphy's crib and um I think it was Eddie's birthday and he invited Sly up and he asked me to come up as assistant and I came up. I think I stared at Si Sly so much that it freaked me out. Like I couldn't believe that he was just sitting right there. It felt like it was a cartoon. I was just staring at him. I'm like that is just so unreal to have him sit across from me that I left. You couldn't you couldn't enjoy and just sit and be.

I left. I was like, I got to go. I can't. It's just too uh it's too much. Yeah, it was too much. I had to get up and leave.

Stone Rolling. That song of yours. Was that a tribute to him? Is that No, that's a tribute to a uh that's a tribute to uh

more like Memphis. Memphis Memphis Soul or Memphis? Memphis Soul. Yeah, like um

definitely uh Yeah, that's the Staxs Records, Otis Red and Al Green. Those boys nobody did like them, you know. the first lyric, you know, fat lady shaking, backbone breaking,

you know, that's a that's a blues a blues line, but that record there's there was songs out there that sound like uh Honey Yard Dash was like more of a slide thing or a heart attack. Uh uh uh. You're giving me a heart attack.

That was definitely. That was definitely a slide thing. 100%. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, Raphael Sadi, this has been such a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Raphael Saadiq on Love, Loss, and Three Decades of Soul | Fresh Air"?

Terry Gross (Host), Raphael Saadiq (Guest).

What is "Raphael Saadiq on Love, Loss, and Three Decades of Soul | Fresh Air" about?

Raphael Saadiq reflects on his musical journey over three decades, discussing the importance of live concert experiences without phones to foster a deeper connection among audiences. He also pays tribute to his late brother, Dwayne Wiggins, co-founder of Tony! Toni! Toné!, illustrating the profound impact of personal relationships on his artistry and performances.

What is mentioned in this Fresh Air episode?

15 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Raphael Sadiq, Cowboy Carter, Dwayne Wiggins, Solange, Fender Telecaster, I Lied to You. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Raphael Saadiq on Love, Loss, and Three Decades of Soul | Fresh Air"?

The episode runs 47 min; the transcript is about 8,760 words in 160 timestamped sections.

More from Fresh Air

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.