The 4 Pillars of Leadership with Paul Kelly

What this episode is about

The discussion focuses on the leadership principles that drive success in business, as shared by Paul Kelly, an expert with over 35 years of experience in the HVAC, plumbing, and electrical industries. Highlighting his journey from CPA to the president of Parker and Sons, Kelly emphasizes the importance of simplicity, discipline, and effective team leadership as key components for achieving significant growth and success in any organization.

Key takeaways

• The CPA who turned wrenches shows success isn't hocus pocus—it's simple math with a pinch of passion.
• Who knew HVAC could be hotter than blackjack? Kelly took chips off the table, not all-in.
• Turning $7M to $270M in Phoenix heat—Paul's marketing magic leaves others in a desert dust.
• Scaling 40M in a pandemic? Sometimes numbers don't need accountants, just a splash of creative risk.
• Selling at 35 is the new 65; business wisdom now ages like fine wine—start early, sell savvily.

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Parker and Sons, Tricks of the Trade to Success, Cash accounting, Electrical
2. 5:00 – 10:00: P units, Profit sharing plan, Term loan, Wrench
3. 10:00 – 15:00: Wrench, Champion Group, Cristiano, Home service industry
4. 15:00 – 20:00: Franchise model, HR company, Morris Jenkins, Next Gen
5. 20:00 – 25:00: Electrical, Insulation, Tucson
6. 25:00 – 30:00: Home service industry, stadiums, TADA moment, Wrench
7. 30:00 – 35:00: Raising Goats, Wrench, A1 Garage, Freedom event
8. 35:00 – 40:00: Four pillars, Parker and Sons, Raising Goats, Yellow Book
9. 40:00 – 45:00: Chad Peterman, Cristiano, Daryl Bingham, Daryl W
10. 45:00 – 50:00: Raising Goats, Wrench, 168 hours in a week, Bob Cannon
11. 50:00 – 55:00: Blockbuster, Paul's book, Time, money, and effort, Trisha
12. 55:00 – 59:49: raisinggoats.com, Four pillars, Guanette, Paul's book

Notable quotes from "The 4 Pillars of Leadership with Paul Kelly"

• Right here with me in good old Phoenix, Arizona. He's the author of Tricks of the Trade to Success: The Magic of Creating Your Tada in Business and in life.

  about Tricks of the Trade to Success · at 0:08

• It's been a crazy ride. love it. I bought it when it was 7 million. It'll do if I counted Tucson, which is a Parker and Suns there, we'll do 270 million. that's incredible.

  about Tucson · at 2:10

• Care of. And I was very careful about who I partnered with. And I'm glad that I partnered with the Wrench Group. It's been a great opportunity for a lot of people. They along…

  about Wrench · at 6:49

• Else is barely living. depending on how you pay and how the bonus structures work. But once you could use P units or an equity incentive program, it starts to you got to kind of have a finish line where everyone's racing towards.

  about P units · at 7:46

• Is kind of a bubble when you got developers and people from real estate talking about the home service industry now? Everybody and their brothers trying to get an HVAC and like…

  about Home service industry · at 11:09

• Guys I don't I know you know Ken Goodrich, Ken Haynes, Leland and you know Cristiano those goats. Yeah.

  about Cristiano · at 14:49

• I love it. in the book, you write about finding your TADA moment.

  about TADA moment · at 29:36

• In the fact that if I'm a goat, raising goats.

  about Raising Goats · at 30:58

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Paul Kelly — Person · 2 mentions · first at 0:04
  Paul Kelly is an expert in sales, business, and accounting. He's based right here with me in good old Phoenix, Arizona. He's the author of Tricks.
• Cristiano — Person · 2 mentions · first at 14:55
• Leland — Person · 1 mention · first at 14:45
  It's always interesting. Leland had talked about the same things and you guys I don't I know you know Ken Goodrich, Ken Haynes, Leland and you know Cristiano.
• Ken Goodrich — Person · 1 mention · first at 14:49
  It's always interesting. Leland had talked about the same things and you guys I don't I know you know Ken Goodrich, Ken Haynes, Leland and you know Cristiano those goats. Yeah.
• Ken Haynes — Person · 1 mention · first at 14:52
  Talked about the same things and you guys I don't I know you know Ken Goodrich, Ken Haynes, Leland and you know Cristiano those goats. Yeah.
• Mark Madison — Person · 1 mention · first at 40:46
  You, you, we've got Cristiano, we got my son Josh, who's an upand cominging goat, Drew Cameron, Mark Madison, Chad Peterman. we've just and there'll be others. And it I want it…
• Chad Peterman — Person · 1 mention · first at 40:49
  We got my son Josh, who's an upand cominging goat, Drew Cameron, Mark Madison, Chad Peterman. we've just and there'll be others. And it I want it to be something that I lead…
• Daryl Bingham — Person · 1 mention · first at 43:35
  Come to meetings with a smile. They're very amicable with everybody. And you recruited Daryl Bingham and he's running the business, right?
• Daryl W — Person · 1 mention · first at 44:46
  Think you start to attract people. our success was really, at a high level. Daryl W was frustrated. I won't get into the particulars with what was happening at George Brazil…
• Justine — Person · 1 mention · first at 45:16
  Operations. and but it wasn't just Daryl. It was my do well in the early days it was Josh but Justine took over in 2017 and did the marketing and I loved working with both of them. Justine became one of the best marketers in our.
• Bob Cannon — Person · 1 mention · first at 45:42
  Locations within Wrench even or from Wrench themselves. So, and it was Bob Cannon more recently, and it we've just had so many great people that we've attracted. And I won't…
• Trisha — Person · 1 mention · first at 54:50
  I pick the same movie. I bring it back and Trisha goes, We just watched that like three weeks ago. I go, it sounded familiar, but I, that's great.
• Guanette — Person · 1 mention · first at 59:24
  Thank you. Yeah, I agree. I feel the same about you. And I met Josh in Hawaii in 2016 through Guanette. That was so I cannot believe that. But Josh such a I love the whole family and I appreciate everything you guys do.
• Heather Lee Cameron — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

• Tricks of the Trade to Success: The Magic of Creating Your Tada in Business and in Life — Book · 3 mentions
• Paul's book — Book · 2 mentions · first at 53:34
  Any books that have changed your life? Obviously, you wrote a book. everybody should pick up Paul's book.
• Host's book — Book · 2 mentions
• Robert Cialdini's books — Book · 1 mention

Companies & orgs

• Wrench — Company · 9 mentions · first at 6:54
• Wrench Group — Company · 4 mentions · first at 6:54
  Care of. And I was very careful about who I partnered with. And I'm glad that I partnered with the Wrench Group. It's been a great opportunity for a lot of people. They along…
• Parker and Sons — Company · 3 mentions · first at 0:42
  Since acquiring Parker and Sons in 2004, he's grown the business from 7 million to over 200 million, proving that success isn't magic. It's the result of doing the right things, keeping it.
• EGIA — Company · 2 mentions
• Renovo — Company · 1 mention · first at 11:38
  Bursting, but it's it's already cracking. there are some Renovo just went out of business.
• Champion Group — Company · 1 mention · first at 12:34
  A lot of companies making deals. so I think that'll be good news. I mean I think guys like Champion Group and Wrench are doing great. I talked to Ken actually on Sunday.
• Lennox — Company · 1 mention · first at 13:49
  They could have a catastrophe of their own. We've seen that at Lennox and different things where you know mother nature can take out, a manufacturing plant or whatever. And not always are the.
• Service Titan — Company · 1 mention · first at 15:53
  Companies in a bunch of markets and saying run them on your own. like you need Intact and Service Titan and you need the right HR company and with all those things not…
• Morris Jenkins — Company · 1 mention · first at 16:14
  Agreeing that we're going to do all this throughout. yeah, otherwise you might have Morris Jenkins doing different than this and this the next gen, and it's it's hard to get a system of the output to be the same.
• A1 Garage — Company · 1 mention · first at 32:52
  Are probably listening and even an Achilles heel for a Parker and Suns or an A1 garage or whatever. it's always a struggle is implementation.
• Yellow Book — Company · 1 mention · first at 37:42
  It's almost like when the Yellow Book died, I came in right when the Yellow Book died. I was in the third page of the Yellow Book.
• George Brazil — Company · 1 mention · first at 44:51
  A high level. Daryl W was frustrated. I won't get into the particulars with what was happening at George Brazil, but I was lucky to land Daryl and Daryl was and I were a great one-two punch. I was the driver of the top line.
• Blockbuster — Company · 1 mention · first at 54:40
  Remember the name of the book or can't remember you know the movie. In the old days I would go to Blockbuster and bring a movie back. We'd watch it about 3 weeks later I'm in Blockbuster.
• A1 — Company · 1 mention
• Intacct — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

• golf simulator — Product · 1 mention · first at 48:20
  Really enjoy? I' I've played a little more golf lately. So, I got a actually a golf simulator in my garage now. So, I can go out and hit golf balls there. And but really between I used to play tennis. Don't play that anymore.
• golf balls — Product · 1 mention · first at 48:22
  Little more golf lately. So, I got a actually a golf simulator in my garage now. So, I can go out and hit golf balls there. And but really between I used to play tennis. Don't play that anymore.

Concepts & topics

• Private equity (PE) — Concept · 8 mentions
• Raising Goats — Concept · 7 mentions · first at 31:03
• Magic — Concept · 6 mentions
• Four pillars (thinking, implementation, operating, leadership) — Concept · 3 mentions
• TV — Concept · 3 mentions
• Electrical — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 0:34
  With more than 35 years of experience in the HVAC, plumbing, electrical industries, Paul's journey has taken him from CPA to contractor. from crunching numbers to creating exponential growth.
• P units — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 7:49
• Home service industry — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 11:13
• TADA moment — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 29:39
• Four pillars — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 39:53
  On the side after hours, whatever, trying to figure out how to get people better at the four pillars. And I wanted to do it in record time. Most people have to have a mentor…
• CSR — Concept · 2 mentions
• People-first / customer-second / company-third ordering — Concept · 2 mentions
• Income statement — Concept · 1 mention · first at 2:47
  Background and it makes it tough because they don't know the score. They don't know how to read a balance sheet, income statement, P&L, cash flow. They don't understand acrruel…
• Cash accounting — Concept · 1 mention · first at 2:52
  Know how to read a balance sheet, income statement, P&L, cash flow. They don't understand acrruel versus cash accounting. Where do you where do you love if you got to pick just…
• Term loan — Concept · 1 mention · first at 7:22
  So, I had a delayed draw term loan in place and I needed a partner with deeper pockets and the multiples were high and I rolled a significant amount more than most do about half of the chips.
• Profit sharing plan — Concept · 1 mention · first at 9:05
  Getting back up to 17 18%. And we did it in one year and what we did was we set up a profit sharing plan for people. So you talk about sharing or I keep hitting this mic here.…
• Procurement — Concept · 1 mention · first at 13:01
  Talk about. I've heard some of the best players in the industry is how you buy procurement.
• Vendors — Concept · 1 mention · first at 13:08
  A big business and just renegotiating contracts even with your vendors that you use for marketing?
• HR company — Concept · 1 mention · first at 15:56
  Saying run them on your own. like you need Intact and Service Titan and you need the right HR company and with all those things not reporting the same like you can never lend…
• Next Gen — Concept · 1 mention · first at 16:17
  Otherwise you might have Morris Jenkins doing different than this and this the next gen, and it's it's hard to get a system of the output to be the same.
• Franchise model — Concept · 1 mention · first at 18:47
  The we don't have as many companies that you guys have and the revenue, but I look at it like a franchise model. And I think the more the franchise or could control some of the…
• Insulation — Concept · 1 mention · first at 20:28
  Only offered HVAC and plumbing in the beginning and then we added water and then we added insulation. We added electrical we recently added solar. Once somebody trusts you, you can definitely get them to use you for other services. And I'd.
• Freedom event — Concept · 1 mention · first at 33:03
  Most contractors aren't good at implementation. So they can go to the freedom event, they can go to a seminar, they can go to a conference or they can hire a company and they…
• Seminar — Concept · 1 mention · first at 33:06
  Implementation. So they can go to the freedom event, they can go to a seminar, they can go to a conference or they can hire a company and they can get a mentor and they can…
• Culture fit — Concept · 1 mention · first at 47:54
  And it's got to be a culture fit. And I think that's important. so what do you like to do? so you're doing this raising goats. You're still advising companies, especially,.
• 168 hours in a week — Concept · 1 mention · first at 49:41
  168 hours in a week. We're not going to change that.
• Time, money, and effort — Concept · 1 mention · first at 50:27
  Work. But u but yeah, no I think you do you spend three things in life. Time, money, and effort.
• Accrual accounting — Concept · 1 mention
• Equity incentive programs (EIP) — Concept · 1 mention
• LPs — Concept · 1 mention
• Mentorship by studying others — Concept · 1 mention
• Retirement (as a concept to avoid) — Concept · 1 mention
• Teachable, hungry, humble (hiring traits) — Concept · 1 mention
• Water services — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

• Tucson — Place · 2 mentions · first at 2:17
• stadiums — Place · 1 mention · first at 26:40
  All over the seen you on TV radio over the years. I've seen you guys at a lot of the stadiums in the me men's bathroom.

Sponsors

• Tricks of the Trade to Success — Sponsor · 4 mentions · first at 0:12
• raisinggoats.com — Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at 56:21
  And since you're a part of it, too, go to, raisinggoats.com.
• tricksofthetrade.com — Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 55:50
  The you know re you can get my book. There's u if you go to tricksofthetrade.com you can reach me there. you can I can if any of your listeners need to ask me specific questions or whatever, I'm always.
• Raising Goats training — Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 58:09
  That's actually part of the Raising Goats training is a guided tour by myself of Parker where you'll see the actual things we teach in the class.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 All right, guys. Today I got a special guest, and this is going to be amazing. Paul Kelly is an expert in sales, business, and accounting. He's based right here with me uh in good old Phoenix, Arizona. He's the author of Tricks of the Trade to Success: The Magic of Creating Your Tada in Business and in life.

0:20 [snorts] Uh Paul Kelly is the president and owner of Parker and Suns, one of the largest and most successful home service companies in America, generating well over 110 million in annual revenue from a single market in Phoenix, Arizona. With more than 35 years of experience in the HVAC, plumbing, electrical industries, Paul's journey has taken him from CPA to contractor. from crunching numbers to creating exponential growth. Since acquiring Parker and Sons in 2004, he's grown the business from 7 million to over 200 million, proving that success isn't magic. It's the result of doing the right things, keeping it simple, and leading great people. Paul's al also the author of tricks of the trade to success, where he reveals how the secrets of magic mirror the principles of leadership, discipline, and execution in business. Wow.

1:10 I don't know if I can even live up to all that, but it sounds pretty good. It's always fun to talk to you, Paul. I've learned a lot from you over the years. Thanks for coming in today.

1:19 Oh, no. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. I don't know where you want to start. I mean, you were a CPA, uh, Parker and Sons, great company back in the day, been around since the 70s. Uh, and then you took it over and you've had quite the run. I think you've got what, four turns now?

1:35 Yeah. Yeah, we just had our fourth turn. Um, maybe it's been a year and a half, two years ago now, I guess it was. But, uh, no, sold sold the business in, uh, what was it, 2016. Uh, so, so I sold it well before everyone started jumping into this business and the PE firms got all excited. Uh, so, but but yeah, sold it and then it it flipped within a year. It flipped again within two years and flipped and flipped and so it's been it's been a crazy ride. Uh love it. Um I bought it when it was 7 million. It'll do if I counted Tucson, which is a Parker and Suns there, we'll do 270 million. Uh

2:25 that's incredible. So it's a it's it's a crazy story. Uh but it's not my story. It's a whole bunch of people's story and uh I'm proud I'm proud to be a part of it. That's for sure.

2:37 What do you think your core is? Obviously, you understand the numbers because of the CPA background. I think a lot of business owners don't have that background and it makes it tough because they don't know the score. They don't know how to read a balance sheet, income statement, P&L, cash flow. They don't understand acrruel versus cash accounting. Where do you where do you love if you if you got to pick just to walk in back and go back to 2005 or 2004 if this is the only thing you're going to do in the business what would it be?

3:06 You know, it's funny. My background is accounting, CPA, all that, but I what I really love is the marketing and the driving sales aspect. That that's my passion. [clears throat] And I think that's uh one of the reasons why we were able to grow, you know, 10, you know, eventually 10, 20, 30, one year we grew 40 million in a year uh in 2022 right on the heels of COVID. And so, yeah, my passion is growing the top line, but it it would be no fun growing the top line, and you've seen contractors grow at the top, but uh the bottom shrinks.

3:45 Yeah. Uh so, it's got to be it's got to be top and bottom and getting a nice profit at the end. Not for any reason other than than you deserve it. Your people deserve it. You should share it. And uh if you have investors, they deserve it as well. You know, a lot of people have been talking to PE companies. I think it's been kind of the co effect. You decided to do it a lot earlier. Uh what are the pros and cons? There's horror stories. We tend to hear more of the horror stories than the success stories.

4:17 Yeah. But when you came to terms with you were ready to do uh take an opportunity to sell, what went through your mind? What would you warn people about? What kind of things they need to have to like in place?

4:27 You know, I I did it for different reasons. Some people are going to retire and they're older and they they want to sell. But as you've seen and we've all seen, the average age of somebody selling nowadays where it used to be 65 or 70 is now 35 or 40,

4:43 right? And so it's it uh for me it was really I didn't want to leave the business. I didn't want to quit. I just wanted to take some chips off the table. So, it was like if I was winning in blackjack and I was up a lot, I'm uh I'm conservative enough where I, you know, I don't want to bet at all on one hand or whatever. I want to run up to the room, put some money in the safe, go back down, and keep playing blackjack. So, it was just a way to reduce some of the risk. And there are some people out there that are considering selling that that might be part of their equation is how do I reduce the risk of something that I built that has been successful.

5:22 Uh and then there's others that that aren't quite as successful as they need to be that need to up their game and get it to a point where they can sell it. Everyone has their own reasons. I think most people jumped on the bandwagon of selling not because they were ready, not because they wanted to take more chips off the table. It was strictly because the multiples got crazy high and and you start doing the math when the multiples are high enough. As I always tell people, it's better to keep your company even if the multiples are higher. uh it's better to keep your company if only you can swallow the the risk and the things that go along with owning your own company because one day you could wake up and something may have changed.

6:08 Um that could be something in the industry changed it, something in the economy changed it, uh maybe a competitor changed the landscape for you or maybe you had a big accident or uh whatever. But, uh, as long as you can stomach that, I think it's always better to keep the company. But, but when you're ready to to, uh, to sell, I think you've got to pick the right people, the right people to partner with. You've done that. I've done that. Uh, because in the end, you don't want, in the end, there's always, whether you retire or you quit or someday you leave your company, there's people left behind and you want to make sure they're all taken care of. And I was very careful about who I partnered with. And I'm glad that I partnered with the Wrench Group. It uh it's been a great opportunity for a lot of people. They they along with me and a whole bunch of others have made a bunch of people uh very successful, rich, and

7:10 uh and have changed their lives in a way that maybe wouldn't have happened had I just kept it.

7:17 Yeah. You know, I I ran out of money in a lot of ways for my growth appetite. So, I had a delayed draw term loan in place and I needed a partner with deeper pockets and the multiples were high and I I rolled a significant amount more than most do about half of the chips. And a lot of millionaires became, you know, over 24 millionaires came out of it. So, we'll do it again. And uh yeah, I I I really think not selling a company could be selfish if you're taking all these draws all the time and everyone else is barely living. depending on how you pay and how the bonus structures work. But once you could use P units or an equity incentive program, it starts to you got to kind of have a finish line where everyone's racing towards.

7:56 But it's not easy. I mean, the job of a PE companies to push you as hard as you're willing to be pushed because they got LPS to answer to as well.

8:03 Yeah. And they need an ROI on that money. And and the thing that scares me is taking six or times six or seven times leverage on the business cuz you know, Parker, if you took seven times leverage, still has to make those payments, right?

8:15 Which is cash flow. otherwise you could use to grow, right? And there's some companies still taking draws out of the business, which I think is a massive mistake because that should be growth capital. It shouldn't be other than to pay the debt.

8:27 Yeah. Well, and you know, as we were growing along the way before I sold uh we started off at about 17 18% and then it went to 16 then it went as we grew then it went to 15 then it went to 13 and 12 when it got to 11. Now I was still making more money uh because the top line was growing so large but the percentage was shrinking. Then I called timeout one year and I said okay we're getting back up to 17 18%. And we did it in one year and what we did was we set up a profit sharing plan for people. So you talk about sharing or I keep hitting this mic here. Um but but with in that one year everybody started thinking about hey how do how one how do I benefit how does a company benefit how does the customer benefit all three of those and um we started looking at what we were spending what our margins were um I obviously have an accounting background I knew I could always get it back up but but to do it in one year it

9:38 was a team effort and uh sharing your success with your employees and the and partnering with a PE group is one way to do that is is in the end the most rewarding thing you can do. You have more money than you'll ever spend, I'm sure. And uh and and I and I do okay. Um, but but really the people that that you have, your key people all the way down to the last warehouse person or whatever, they they all deserve to do well when the company does well. And so I always felt that was an important key ingredient in anything I did. Um, I'll get a bigger kick out of the team members or the employees making money than the company making money. It doesn't mean the company doesn't want to make more money. It just means when the employee is is able to do stuff for themselves or their family that they weren't able to do working for somebody else. That's what satisfies me and that's what I get a kick out of.

10:39 No, it's true. I agree with that wholeheartedly. I would say and I haven't felt this from my industry at all, but some of these HVAC plumbing guys, they're demanding that they make a million dollars a year, that they earn a lot of the P units. U sales are what make the world go around. Sales and marketing, we know that. But the more I hear some of these and they're A+ players, don't get me wrong. They they know how to sell and they still get five star reviews. But I mean, do you feel in any way like this is kind of a bubble when when you got developers and people from real estate talking about the home service industry now? Everybody and their brothers trying to get an HVAC and like it just reminds me of the dot era. Like this is almost too good to be true. And usually if something sounds too good to be true, it is. Yeah.

11:27 What are your thoughts over the next few years of where things go? No, I think there's definitely a bubble and it's already I wouldn't say bursting, but it's uh it it's already cracking. Uh there are some

11:38 Renovo just went out of business. Yeah. The Blackstone or Black Rock Company. Yeah.

11:43 There's a few groups not doing well. I know. I know them. Yeah. And so, is that going to continue? Yes. Uh there's too many people that hopped in our business too quickly who maybe didn't know the business well enough. Uh and and it just everyone can't do well forever. At some point the cream will rise to the top and uh I know you're part of a group that'll do that and and we are too. But in the end not everyone is going to survive this at the level that they have the last few years. there's a price to pay and there's a bubble that will burst and I I think it's coming soon. Um it's already started.

12:27 Next year is going to be a big year for a lot of companies uh making deals. Uh so I think that'll be good news. I mean I think guys like Champion Group and Wrench are doing great. I talked to Ken actually on Sunday.

12:40 Uh he was watching a football game. I was talking to him about Atlanta because he knows the Atlanta market and we're we're we're I'm really trying to figure out the marketing that'll work there and he just mentioned

12:48 just in purchasing you guys are finding a massive amount of money in the next year that'll go to the bottom line and and that's something that I've heard Ken talk about. I've heard some of the best players in the industry is how you buy procurement.

13:02 Yeah. How much does that play into building a a big business and and just renegotiating contracts even with your vendors that you use for marketing?

13:10 Yeah. No, I think there's a huge opportunity there. Now, I will tell you that that's never been part of the formula thus far at the Wrench Group. Uh, each location made their own buys, whether it be media or whether it be equipment or parts or whatever.

13:28 Um, and there is some risk whenever you centralize or you uh you move all your business to one vendor in order to get a good deal. one, there's risk that that vendor may not be able to provide the same kind of service that maybe the local people did before,

13:47 right? Um they could have a catastrophe of their own. We've seen that at Lennox and different things where uh you know um you know, mother nature can take out, you know, a manufacturing plant or whatever. And um and not always are the best deals done at a national level. sometimes they're done at a local level. And so you just have to be careful and you have to know um you have to have the right people um negotiating it and doing the right thing and thinking through it the right way. But there is a huge opportunity that said to uh to do deals with with uh in a number of areas that can save the company a lot of money and potentially bring some things to the table that maybe weren't brought before.

14:35 And so I know the ranch is exploring those now and um I think that will pay off uh big dividends down the road.

14:45 It's always interesting. Leland had talked about the same things and you guys I don't I know you know Ken Goodrich, Ken Haynes, Leland and and you know Cristiano

14:57 those goats. Yeah. And then and then I'm talking to the biggest goat in our industry right across from me here.

15:02 No, I I I learned a lot. Literally, I spent a lot of time traveling, just going to different shops and learning how Hack did it and and plumbing. And, you know, we we like to buy from two manufacturers, not lean all in on one.

15:14 Yeah. And they they continue to fight for our business all the time. They get a lot of our business. I mean, we're spending 60 $70 million a year in just parts.

15:21 But I do think you get economies of scale when you switch to one call center, one purchasing department, one type of insurance provider. Not everything. Like you said, local could be still good. But if it truly is a platform and you want it to be one roll up, meaning that it's reporting the same, you read the KPIs the same, you talk the same jargon, similar mission, core values, stuff like that. I I just don't see how you could do it just buying good companies in a bunch of markets and saying run them on your own. like you need Intact and Service Titan and you need the right HR company and with all those things not reporting the same like you can never lend your employees to other companies if you're under the same ownership structure.

16:04 Yeah, I that's the way I look at it and if I was going to build any type of rollup it would be this is the fundamentals. We're agreeing that we're going to do all this throughout. Uh yeah,

16:14 otherwise you might have Morris Jenkins doing different than this and this and this the next gen, you know, and it's it's hard to get a a a system of the output to be the same.

16:26 Yeah. I think as you as you try and set up a a group to flip or to go public or whatever, you've got to have some commonality among the locations. But I will say that said that there's always risk whenever you centralize things because the more that you take away from a location, the more risk there is that that thing you took away. One, it has to be handled as good or better than than who you took it away from. And uh also um the more you take away from a location, the more the more identity and the more uh the less control there is by that location and you just have to be careful. I totally agree that doing it makes sense. It will always make sense on paper. It's whether it does in practice and it's usually going to depend on the person running that thing, not on the idea itself.

17:35 Right? You can centralize the call center. Um, and all the calls are answered across the whole nation in one call center. If only that call center is as good or better than the call centers that were already out there and the person running it is the best. And um I see a lot of uh companies and you know everybody struggles with with when you centralize something sometimes it doesn't always go the way you want it to at the beginning.

18:07 Right. Right. And uh and if it goes on long enough then you can lose the locations drive to hey they took this over and now my revenue went down a little bit because of it. Um, that wasn't a good move. Well, it probably still was a good move. It just has the wrong person running it and I see that. Um, I I see that at a lot of locations. So, you just have to be careful.

18:34 Yeah. I look at it like like I look at this business that you're in and I'm in Wrench Group. I'm not quite in the same the the we don't have as many companies that you guys have and the revenue, but I look at it like a franchise model. And I think the more the franchise or could control some of the things. Now I've seen franchise or that don't know anything about marketing. They don't understand call centers, they probably shouldn't be picking those things. But I look at an an average CSR that could take 45 calls a day. If you're in a smaller market, your CSR because in the morning and afternoon calls come in at different times, they might only be able to take 10 calls a day. So all of a sudden you're getting these economies of scale if you do it correctly. And you're right, you need great people. And that's one of my next questions. A lot of leaders talk about scaling, but very few have done it in such a controlled single

19:23 market way. Why is it important to master one market instead of expanding into others? And I do have some leadership questions as well.

19:31 I mean, one, there's there's so much business in a Phoenix, Arizona, or a Dallas, Texas or, you know, any number of cities. There's so much business to get that to try. For me, that's the best place to start to try and dominate. Um, I would rather be a $250 million company in Phoenix, Arizona than be a, you know, 25, you know, $10 million businesses all over. It's easier to control and u now there's more risk uh because if if uh

20:09 summer doesn't get hot, we don't have to worry about that here. Yeah, we don't have to worry about that here. But so so I think um you know for me it was always it always made sense to expand the services that we offer cuz we only offered HVAC and plumbing in the beginning and then we added water and then uh we added insulation. We added we added electrical um we recently added solar solar. Once somebody trusts you, you can you can definitely get them to use you for other services. And I'd rather grow that way first. Now, some of those businesses are a little bit different, but they're all home services.

20:48 Yeah. And so, home improvements. Yeah. And so, they have a commonality and uh and so that's the way I always grew. It can go either way. Um we expanded down into Tucson and we'll do we'll do 30 million um in Tucson in year four. So it, you know, um, you can open up and do very well in another location as well. So, um, I I think you can do either. I think for most people maybe that are listeners to this podcast, um, grow grow your own business first. If you're not good at that yet,

21:25 uh, if you're not dominating or, you know, in your own market, figure that out first because

21:30 don't expand. I always tell people, why are you expanding when you're not even making 15% and you don't have market share in your current market?

21:38 Right. Right. And so many people are so excited to expand and they don't understand they're going to be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

21:43 Yeah. And it's tough. Now your top guys are going to that other market. You're losing them out of your current market. You're going to drop your current market. It's it's a weird situation to be in. Uh you said before that business isn't a magic trick. It's about keeping things simple and doing the right things. Well, what does keep being as simple actually look like in practice when you're leading hundreds of people and millions in revenue?

22:07 You know, everything I did, people think like, well, you probably had this master plan if you went from 7 million to 250 plus million. And I would tell people, no, I didn't have some master plan. I was basically just trying to make payroll at the beginning and uh and trying to figure things out. But we got momentum and we we you know kept rolling. Um simplicity was always part of my formula. I'm not a complicated person. I can't implement complicated. Um when things are complicated, they're hard to implement and uh they're not scalable. And so simplicity in everything whether it's a pay program an example our pay program for our HVAC uh uh service department uh 20% of the ticket you can figure that out you can do 10% by moving the decimal point and double it and you are used to leaving 20% tips and like they know they can do the math in their head real quick when they do a job they know how much money

23:09 they made that they put in a $1,000 motor they just made 200 bucks. So, it uh simplicity in everything we do, whether it's a selling process. I I don't like 10-step processes. I don't like long um things that you have to memorize and learn. This is how you say it in this order, and if you do this, and then you do that, and then you do these other six things, then you're going to make the sale most of the time. Like, just tell me one thing, one thing to do that would make the biggest difference. And if I have um a magic uh in me, it's I can take most things and simplify them to a degree that no one else can. And and I can get that simple thing to work really well. And it doesn't mean I won't make it a little more complicated later on, but simplicity is the key to everything that Parker and Suns does. As large as we are, things are harder to implement, not easier. And simplicity is a part of

24:13 that. I want to talk a little bit about marketing because I that's my favorite thing in business too. I like marketing for clients and marketing for great people to come on the bus. Um, how much should someone and there's numbers all over the place anywhere from 5 to 20% depending on which you're growing or not. But how much of revenue as a as a com percentage of revenue should we be spending in marketing do you like to be at? Well, I can tell you what Parker's at, and it's a ridiculously low number, and I wish it were higher, but but uh um you know, there's uh there's some that believe you can grow your business at at even a lower number, but uh Parker spends about 4.5%.

24:51 Um but I think the right number really for a large company is in that six to seven range. For the smaller medium-sized companies, you're going to have to spend 8 to 10 to 12. I mean, I think um 8 to 10% is not unusual at all for any company to spend on marketing. And so, you know, the uh not spending enough and not charging enough so you can spend enough on marketing. Um you know, you can do anything you want in your business if only you charge appropriately. And so the um the number one mistake that a lot of contractors make or even some PE groups make is they don't spend enough on marketing. And so I think if you want to grow your business and look it's it's really no fun unless it is growing. Uh so if you want the best people uh you want to attract them, you want to retain them, you better be a growing company, right? And uh and so you got to spend enough, you got to be smart, you got to have the expertise uh on the

26:01 marketing side. And um and so I think that is what a lot of the companies within the wrench group excel at. They're very good marketers. And uh and so I think uh I think those are the keys. Uh did that that answer your question?

26:18 That was great. I I mean you've done a lot of stuff. You used to put babies on the billboards.

26:23 Yeah. That was just team my daughter. That was her idea. She did a great job. Great. It's uh one in in Robert Chadini's books. U he talks about that. People love babies in the pets.

26:34 And then you've got I've heard you guys all over the seen you on TV radio over the years. I've seen you guys at a lot of the stadiums in the me men's bathroom.

26:42 I don't know about the women's. Uh never been in there. But what what are some of the things that have worked the best over the years that still apply to today that you'd say, "Man, that was amazing with the results. We didn't know it was going to be that way." But it's not just your common common things that most people know about.

26:58 Well, I would say um that you know whatever whatever you do, dominate it. So that was one of the keys and that's just a principle, not an actual action, but dominate dominate what you are in. And if you're smaller, if you're a smaller contractor, that might be a neighborhood or a church or something on a smaller scale. It might be a zip code or two. Um, as you get larger, you can dominate a station or programming on TV or different things. But whatever you do, dominate it. Uh, be a big fish in a small pond, not a small fish in a huge pond. Um, small fish get eaten. Uh, big fish do the eating. So, be be a big fish. And so I think that's that's one of the principles that we've always used. Uh as far as what's worked for us, one I always tell people start off with a business you already have and make more out of it. That's where to start.

28:00 Yeah. That's the best energy you could ever spend. Take that, you know, $250 average ticket or whatever yours is and make it 350, 450, 550. take the leads that you get and get more of them. The the system leads, most of the businesses um in the home service industry and your listeners, the large ticket items are where they make most of their money. And so, make sure you're feeding that animal well. Spend more time, money, and energy on figuring out how to feed that that animal. And um and but really I I'm not sure I could point to one thing that if I said in advertising it works. It all works. Consistency, longevity, diversity, the same message over a long period of time over a number of mediums works. The problem is is all those are expensive uh to do. And so you have to you have to do it on a smaller scale and you have to dominate an audience. You want them to get tired of hearing your

29:03 message. And because the average consumer doesn't use our services but once every two, three, in some instances five, six years um or 10 years, uh 15 years and buying a system, right? And so, so you have to you have to always be talking to that audience so that when they have the need and you there's ways to create needs, but um but when they have a need, they you're more top of mind.

29:36 I love it. Um in the book, you write about finding your TADA moment. Uh that spark that makes your business and life stand out. What does that mean to you personally and how can leaders find that magic in what they do?

29:51 You know, I I got into magic years ago and now that I'm kind of semi-retired and working a lot less, uh not involved in the day-to-day at Parker um and just kind of consulting with the wrench, I've been able to get back into some magic stuff and I'm starting to practice again. But to me that tada moment are the things it could be little things that you can just say to yourself tada or you could celebrate. Obviously getting married can be a tadada. Having kids is a huge tadada. I'm going to tell you right now having grandkids is is maybe even a bigger tadada. Uh and so uh love those grandkids. Uh, and certainly buying a business, having a business, um, a great month, a great day, making a sale that you didn't think you would make. All those are tadada moments that you should celebrate. Um, and and you can celebrate in a number of ways. To me, my last tadada in this industry might be something that you're a part

30:56 of, even though it's a small part of. Um, in the fact that if I'm a goat, raising goats.

31:04 Yeah. And you're a goat and we know a lot of goats. How how did we become a goat? Like we're there's not really I mean maybe you feel you are to some degree or whatever, but I don't feel like I'm that special to to think that if I only I can do something. I think if I did it, I I wouldn't I would never say anyone because I've met a lot of people that would never ever be able to do this, but a lot of people a lot of people could do exactly what we did if only they knew the secrets. And I've identified I I study you. I study a lot of people. Um, and I I've I've figured out uh four things that people are are really good at that are part of this class that we're going to teach. You're you're a part of that class. And um those four things you want to go through

32:02 them. Yeah. Raising goats. It's uh it's how to be a better thinker. All the great goats, all the great great people in our industry that have an amazing story, they're really good thinkers. they can think through problems, not just the benefits of a of solving a problem, but the consequences of making decisions and problems. And uh and I feel like in this class and some ongoing training as well, I can get somebody we can get somebody to be a way better thinker. So thinking is is key. If you think differently, you act differently. If you act differently, you'll get different results, better results. The second thing which is an Achilles heel of most contractors that are probably listening and even an Achilles heel for a Parker and Suns or an A1 garage or whatever. Um it's always a struggle is implementation.

32:59 Most contractors aren't good at implementation. So they can go to the freedom event, they can go to a a seminar, they can go to a conference or they can hire a company and they can get a mentor and they can talk to whoever they want and they can read tricks of the trade to success. But can they implement um and I've found some tricks to implementing. We talked about one of them um but I'll really show it in the class. It's about simplicity and uh and how to break something down so simple that it just makes it easy for people to implement.

33:38 So, so implementation and then to be a better operator. Um uh we're going to hit the highlights of what to know in each of the categories in your business from marketing to financial to sales to operations uh to dispatching to to the call center. You know, we're not going to talk about everything. We're going to talk about the simple things, the things that matter the most that there's one or two things in each thing you just have to get super good at. Um and so being a better operator. And then the last the last thing which which you have in spades as well is being a better leader and you know and how how do you get people to follow you? I I tell people at Parker and Suns or Wrench or as I talk to people all the time, the litmus test of whether you're a good supervisor or manager or leader is can you get the people that report to you uh to do what you want them to do? And if you can, you're probably a great leader at least

34:49 to some extent. If you can't, you're definitely not um being being a great leader. Doesn't mean you can't become one. Um and so you've got to get people to do what you want them to do um in the end. And so so we go through in the class and then afterwards we go through what that means, what it looks like, what it feels like, and how to improve it. You'll walk away in that class. The first class is in March. You'll walk away from that class being better in all four of those uh pillars, I call them. and um and it'll 5x 10x your company both top and bottom line in a very short period of time. So I that to me is going to be my biggest tadada because I believe there everyone talks about shortage of technicians and there is shortage of technicians and we all solve that in some way but the biggest shortage is a shortage of leaders.

35:51 Yeah. with the right leaders, you get you get the technicians, you get and so it it is about how do I and if I can do it and you can do it and other people can do it, how how would we all pull together and get somebody from A to Z in a very short period of time to to be just a a goat in the making in a sense. And that's probably what is exciting me more than anything I've ever done, including grown Parker and Sons because it's a way of giving back.

36:26 Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. You know, I like mentoring people, but I still love the game too much. And you know, if I was to restart today, I I always ask this question. If I restarted today, what would I do? Well, the hard part is I didn't have any money when I started. So, I had to work three other jobs. So that was a few years of working nights and weekends and making because I needed money to invest in growth

36:50 and I couldn't hire great people because I didn't have the money. I was the janitor, the call center, the dispatch center, the trainer, the recruiter, the the accounts payable. I did the uh payroll. I was on the phone with the different lawyers to make sure this was okay, the terms and conditions on the website, you know, I was making sure the reviews were coming in good and and that's no way I'd want to do it. And now I have money. So, if I were to start out with money, I would hire top down instead of bottom up. I'd get the right leaders to help build the team.

37:16 Yeah. And uh smart. Yeah. It's it's never easy. And this is a weird time because Google's becoming less, you know, AI, LLMs, uh what's going on with Chad GBT, what's going on with just machine learning. Uh I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm embracing it. I I'm really looking at this like a whole new opportunity for us. But, uh, I think the bigger companies that invest in these things are going to get bigger and there's going to be a lot of losers. It's almost like when the Yellow Book died,

37:45 I came in right when the Yellow Book died. I was in the third page of the Yellow Book.

37:50 And then all of a sudden, Google became a thing and I studied it and I just became infatuated. But TV, radio billboards helped Google get more, you know, people search our name more and there's a lot of things that come. But, uh, there, you know, it's pretty complex. People are like, "What's the first thing to do?" I'm like, you got to become a reader. You got to invest in yourself and you got to treat people like you want to be treated. And do they want to work with you? There's certain people I know that say, if you paid them nothing, would they still work for you?

38:16 I'm like, I don't know anybody would come to work if they didn't make any money. Would they?

38:20 But, uh, I I hope I lead from upfront. I think I I'm always my worst critic. I always think I could do better, but I try to show more appreciation than I do lecturing somebody in a one-on-one

38:30 of like how they could become better. I'm very I'm kind of the good cop and I don't like to play that position of power and I'm going to fire you and you're going to get written up. I like to come as like, look, you told me what you wanted out of life.

38:41 You told me your goals. I'm helping you try to get them. Do you want me to help you or do you just want to just be okay being okay?

38:47 Yeah. And that's my job is to pull the best out of people. And if they don't want to be pulled, there's certain times where people have life events, which I'm okay with. But if you're just going to go through life halfass, this probably isn't the right company for you. This is for people that want to excel

39:00 and change their family's family lineage, you know, their family tree. Yeah. Well, I think that's what has driven your success and a lot of others is one, you're never happy with the status quo.

39:14 That's a blessing and a curse. Yeah. You're always trying to improve and you have high expectations first of yourself and then of others. And I think when people know what's expected, um, they'll they'll try and deliver. When they don't know what's expected is when is when anything will work. And, uh, and I think that's part of your magic as a leader. So, yeah.

39:38 What's the legacy of raising goats? I mean, where do you see this manifesting into from your perspective? Well, I you know, I spent a lot of time on the side after hours, whatever, trying to figure out how to get people better at the four pillars. And I wanted to do it in record time. Most people have to have a mentor and it takes years and years. And I set out to do it in one week. And so, um, I'm going to kind of floor some people with with what we do in the class, but it, uh, and there's some ongoing training and reinforcement afterwards as well. Um, and it I went through EGIA and you, you become part of EGIA, too, and you get, you know, a ticket to their conference and, um, and all of their materials as well. But, uh, I really wanted to partner with the likes of you and several other goats.

40:36 We've got, uh, um, you know, we've got you, you, we've got Cristiano, uh, we got my son Josh, who's an upand cominging goat, Drew Cameron, Mark Madison, Chad Peterman. Um, we've just and there'll be others. And um it I want it to be something that I lead, but I really I've learned so much from you and so much from so many others and I want to condense it down into something. And so my my legacy is going to be how can I on uh you know this may be something we just do once or it may be something that I do for a while uh or maybe others do.

41:19 And you know, one of the things that people said to me is like, "Aren't you afraid that once people go through the class or this gets out there the way you do it and how you do it, whatever, aren't you afraid that uh someone's going to copy it?" And I was like, "I'm not afraid that they're going to copy it. I want them to copy it." Like, I want it to become a movement, not a not a a Paul Kelly thing. I want there to be a whole bunch of goats.

41:47 Yeah. Uh that would be my legacy is I started something and everyone else finished it.

41:53 Yeah. Uh and so I don't care about that. I never cared about that. I never cared about beating a competitor. I just cared about getting better myself. I never cared about how someone else was doing. I only cared about how me and all the people that work for me did. And so it uh uh keep your head down and your blinders on and and uh you'll be a lot happier in life. uh not chasing somebody else's dream, but just uh chasing your own. So that's, you know, this will be my legacy. I I appreciate you being a part of it. I hope I hope you'll spread it to all of your listeners.

42:32 Yeah. Obviously through this podcast, but uh I'm I'm excited about it. I'm uh um I'm excited to share what what we've come up with. Um, so yeah,

42:45 it's very cool and I know it comes from your heart of giving back and you want to see people do their best. So I know it's coming from a great place. You know, you've done a lot of great things in the industry and people come out here, they visit. Uh, one of the things you've done a great job and I'm going to come back to raising goats at the end of how people get more information.

43:05 Uh, you've been a hell of a recruiter. I think I put more emphasis now on my recruiting talents. I'm not the best interviewer. Um, but I've been working on that. Part of leadership is getting great one-on- ones, getting your direct reports to follow you, building leaders out of them. And I put just as much emphasis on the marketing for great people to come on board than I do for great clients. Cuz a great person coming on board, they help recruit clients. They help recruit other people. They come to meetings with a smile. They're very amicable with everybody. And you uh you recruited Daryl Bingham uh and he he's running the business, right?

43:41 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Daryl's running it now. And how did that how did that look? How do you look for leaders and how do you identify them? What kind of skill sets do you what kind of questions do you ask to make sure you're getting the right people?

43:51 Well, a lot of times the people will find you once they hear your story. And I was always someone that kept a quiet profile. I was never a I I was never a podcaster. And back in the day, there weren't even podcasts, right? And I never made a big splash. I was never part of a mix group. I was never I kind of just laid low and quietly became this uh 200 plus million dollar company. And that's the way I wanted it. Um, but I think when you have a story and when you're genuine and when you care more about the people that work for you than you care about the company or about the customers, it's it's the people first that work for you.

44:34 Y it's uh it's the customer second and it's the company third in that order. I think you start to attract people. Um, our success was was really, you know, at a high level. Daryl W was frustrated. I won't get into the particulars with what was happening at uh at George Brazil, but but I I was lucky to land Daryl and Daryl was and I were a great one-two punch. I was the driver of the top line. I made sure we made money at the bottom and he was the operator overseeing the operations. Um and but it wasn't just Daryl. It was uh uh my do well in the early days it was Josh but Justine took over in 2017 and uh did the marketing and uh I loved working with both of them. Justine became one of the best marketers in our industry. Um with with my toutelage and everything she's learned from other locations within Wrench even uh or from Wrench themselves. So, um, and it was Bob Cannon more recently, and it we've

45:44 just had so many great people that we've attracted. And I won't say that, it's not like I sought these people out, they kind of sought us out. And uh, and I think when you have that, you've got something special. I I always say that that at Parker and Suns, you can go to any company you want and you ask the people whether they care about the company they work for, and invariably they'll say yes. But do they care enough? It's that word enough. And uh enough to take care of each other first, the customer second, and the company third. And uh giving enough and caring enough are what I look for. I don't look for something technical. I look for what's in here. Uh what's in here? Um but mostly are they are they teachable?

46:36 Are they hungry? Are they humble? There's a lot of people that aren't humble and I don't like working with uh you know people that aren't humble.

46:44 Y um and I like to laugh. I like to have fun. That's why I like hanging around you. and uh and having fun at work and laughing or an ingredient that I actually interview for. Uh I'll tell a joke or two and then I'll want them to tell me something funny. I I want to see if I'm going to have fun. Doesn't mean if I I wouldn't hire them if they weren't funny. Um Josh will say that sometimes, but uh that doesn't mean that at all, but but it does if if all things are equal all things are equal, I'll pick the funny one.

47:19 Yeah. Um, and or the one that I'm going to have fun with. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's important. I think having that camaraderie. Uh, I call it just would this would be a guy I'd want to go have a beer with or a gal. You know what I mean? Somebody that I just love hearing their stories.

47:35 They they they have this way of just recreating a story. Storytelling is such storytelling is jokeelling. And if you could do it right

47:42 and you're entertaining, it's like, man, I want to get to know this person. He's interesting or she's interesting. Mhm.

47:47 And so I I really think that's important because you might have the best allstar,

47:51 but it might not fit your culture. Yeah. And it's got to be a culture fit. And I think that that's important. Um,

48:00 so what do you like to do? I mean, so you're doing this raising goats. You're still advising companies, especially, you know, wrench,

48:08 right? What other things? Obviously spending time with the grandchildren. What are some of your passions that you really really enjoy? You know, I' I've played a little more golf lately. So, uh um I got a actually a golf simulator in my garage now. So, I I can go out and hit golf balls there. And uh

48:27 but really between uh you know, I used to play tennis. Don't play that anymore. I've uh but I I am getting into magic again. So, between grandkids, consulting, raising goats, um I told Josh I was going to learn Spanish, uh but I haven't got around to doing that yet, but uh that's on the list. Um but yeah, those those are all things that I like doing that I want to do. I've got some time to do it. Uh my wife is going through some struggles now with breast cancer, so that's that's eating up

49:03 uh my time. And uh but she's going to get through that. And uh but yeah. Yeah, I'm enjoying I'm enjoying kind of this uh I won't call it the last phase of my life. I'll call it the third out of five phase of my life. Uh

49:19 yeah. No, that's the right way to look at things. I mean, you can I think people just need a reason to keep going. I I don't like the word retirement because retirement means I I I don't think there'll be a day. I'm trying to build my life right now of what 45 looks like when kids come and really being intentional with time because time is one thing we just can't buy right?

49:41 168 hours in a week. We're not going to change that. It's the equalizer to everybody. So

49:47 on my I put I'd like to work 5 to 6 hours a day, 4 days a week with super intentional time. Uh, but I also want to go out and hang out with technicians and I want to go visit markets and take them to dinner and go bowling. So, it just I guess it's what do you consider work is some of the because I don't feel like I don't even feel like I'm at work right now. This isn't I do so much stuff that it doesn't feel like I'm ever going to work. I did three-hour orientation this morning. That wasn't work. I enjoyed spending time with the brand new Texan installers we have. Well, you can enjoy work too where it doesn't seem like work. But uh u but yeah, no um I think I think you you you do you spend three things in life. Time, money, and effort.

50:30 And uh uh time is is finite. Uh and so how you use it is very very important. And uh um you know do do something you love that you enjoy for sure. Um Yeah. Yeah. No, and the older you get, the more you realize how how precious time really is.

50:51 Yeah. You start to appreciate it a lot more. I mean, you give up everything you've ever done in your life to get, you know, 30 years back.

50:58 And I I see people as they start, you know, look at Steve Jobs, he said on his deathbed, you'll be taking your food as medicine. He'll be taking medicine as food.

51:06 Yeah. U Yeah. What's one piece of advice you'd give uh young Paul if you were to talk to 25-year-old Paul? Stay out of the bar, Paul. No. Yeah. 25-year-old Paul was a lot different than uh than 66 year old Paul. Um, you know, I I uh I've learned a lot. I have had a lot of mentors. I I think I did this on another podcast, but I mean, a lot of my mentors I had never even met. I just watch them. I I study them. I I read their books and I figure out what their strengths are and I try and, you know, emulate it and try and make it simple. But I uh um but I think I think uh when I was younger, I didn't I didn't really have aspirations to to be any more than than you know, average or, you know, I I was working kind of how most 25 year olds do to kind of get by and get through the day and make pretty good money but not be that motivated. and um didn't want to take the risks that it might take to do

52:21 some of the to make bigger money or to have bigger aspirations. And so I think I I think confidence and u and having the right mentors and um just uh keeping life simple and uh and having a drive within you. I didn't have the drive back then, at least business-wise. I competed in sports and I competed in, you know, other things. But, um, but now in for the longest time, I I competed in business and that was the way I wasn't competing against anyone. I was competing against myself for the most part. And um and so, you know, have a drive, be competitive, know what you want, and and and and go after it. You can uh it's kind of cliche, but you can accomplish way more than you set yourself. You know, you give yourself credit for being able to do. Um and don't be afraid to ask for help.

53:26 Yeah. ASK, my favorite three letters in that order. Yeah. Uh any books that have changed your life? Obviously, you wrote a book. Uh, everybody should pick up Paul's book.

53:36 Yeah. Yeah. The funny thing about my book is I'm not a reader. I mean, I'm a listener now uh on Audible at books, but I I'm not a big reader. I'm a slow reader. So, uh it takes me a long time, but unless it's really good, I fall asleep first. So, um when I was going to write a book, I went to my wife and I said, "Hey, I'm going to need some alone time for about five or six weeks. I've got to do things quickly." And so I wanted to write it in five or six weeks. And she goes, "You need some alone time. Why? What's wrong?" I go, "There's nothing wrong. I'm going to write a book." She goes, "Write a book." She goes, "You don't even like reading." I go, "I didn't say I was going to read it. I said I was going to write a book."

54:16 And uh and so anyway, um I mean, you name a book and and and I've probably read it. Um or or I've listened to it. Um, I've I, you know, I'm not sure I have a favorite and uh I am a guy that can remember Principles but can't remember the name of the book or can't remember you know the movie. In the old days I would go to Blockbuster um and bring a movie back. We'd watch it about 3 weeks later I'm in Blockbuster. I pick the same movie. I bring it back and Trisha goes, "We just watched that like three weeks ago." I go, it sounded familiar, but I, you know,

54:56 that's great. Anyway, uh but uh but no, get read read everybody's book. I've I've read yours. Yours is is a great book. It uh um you can see Tommy Melo all over in that book. And uh and it was uh

55:15 but you know most most of the real successful people in our industry have have written books and there's people outside of our industry. Read read as much as you can or listen to as much as you can. It'll it'll rub off.

55:28 I agree. I agree. Uh if somebody wants to reach out to you Paul what's the best way to do that? Well, I hope I hope they sign up for and get signed up because space is limited to 30 of tricks of the trade to success. They can do that. Um the um um you know re you can get my book. There's u uh if you go to tricksofthetrade.com uh you can you can reach me there. Um, you know, you can uh I can if if any of your listeners need to ask me specific questions or whatever, I'm always willing to, you know, field calls or or do whatever. But, uh, you know, I would say those are the two ways. Um, but go to, you know, if I could put a plug in, um,

56:18 and since you're a part of it, too, um, go to, uh, raisinggoats.com. raisinggoats.com and look at the class. And, uh, I hope you sign up. And if you do, I promise you, you're going to really be floored. I didn't want to put something together as my last tadada that has been out there. I tried to think of what's missing in all of the training that I've ever been to and how could I put on something we all put on something that that would be different than you would learn from the normal, you know, person that is maybe having a class on something. And so that's what this is.

57:03 It's it's a fairly immersive training and it um you will get better at those four pillars and um and it's going to completely change not just you and your company and your financials and your success, but it it'll change you as a person as well. I think you'll be a better husband, a better mother, a better father, a better brother, sister, or just friend to someone. And so, um, I think it's some life-changing training, but it specifically will change your company. I I guarantee you, you won't walk away from this class and not uh and and not be substantially better um at what you need to be better at in order to grow your company at a rate that you never thought possible.

57:52 I love it. Well, you said it. Go to raisinggoats.com and uh order Paul's book. He's a wealth of knowledge. And if you're ever in town, come. Obviously, we do A1 tours all the time, but uh you know, maybe you could give a maybe we arranged it. You could do a Parker and Suns.

58:09 That's actually part of the Raising Goats training is a guided tour by myself of Parker where you'll see the actual things we teach in the class. You'll see it live in in u and you'll be able to listen. you'll be able to see it going on in in a live environment, so to speak. So,

58:29 cool. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Well, Paul, I really appreciate you coming by. It's always an honor to have you.

58:35 Uh you're just a wealth of knowledge. I've always leaned on you. Every few months, I got a question or you give me some guidance or tell me who I need to get connected with. So, I appreciate it. Well, I can't think of anybody better that I would and why it took us so long to do this, I'm not sure, but um I consider you the GOAT in our in our industry. Our industry meaning the home services industry uh which encompasses a lot of different trades. And uh you're one of the best connected, most respected uh u most successful contractor/ leaders in our industry. and I couldn't um uh you you ask me to do anything and I'll always be there for you.

59:19 Thank you. Yeah, I agree. I feel the same about you. And I met Josh in Hawaii in 2016 through Guanette. That was so I cannot believe that. But Josh such such a I love the whole family and I appreciate everything you guys do.

59:33 No, they they they've been wildly successful themselves. So I couldn't be more proud of him and Laura.

59:38 Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for doing this. I appreciate You're more than welcome.

59:43 All right, and we are out of here. Thanks guys for listening.

Questions about this episode

What is "The 4 Pillars of Leadership with Paul Kelly" about?

The discussion focuses on the leadership principles that drive success in business, as shared by Paul Kelly, an expert with over 35 years of experience in the HVAC, plumbing, and electrical industries. Highlighting his journey from CPA to the president of Parker and Sons, Kelly emphasizes the importance of simplicity, discipline, and effective team leadership as key components for achieving…

What is mentioned in this Home Service Expert episode?

75 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Wrench, Private equity (PE), Raising Goats, Magic, Wrench Group, Parker and Sons. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The 4 Pillars of Leadership with Paul Kelly"?

The episode runs 60 min; the transcript is about 10,913 words in 132 timestamped sections.

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