The Steps to Believe in Yourself (No Permission Needed) | Jamie Kern Lima

What this episode is about

Jamie Kern Lima reflects on the profound impact Oprah Winfrey had on her self-belief and ambition from a young age, highlighting how Oprah's openness about her struggles and her declaration of being "destined for greatness" inspired Lima to recognize her own potential and the importance of overcoming self-doubt. Lima discusses the societal backlash Oprah faced for her confidence, illustrating the challenges women encounter when expressing ambition and self-worth.

Key takeaways

• Oprah taught us that vulnerability can be a superpower; she led the way before social media made it trendy.
• Being told 'no' is just the universe's way of saying 'not yet'; persistence is key for every aspiring entrepreneur.
• Oprah's declaration of greatness sparked a revolution in self-belief, challenging societal norms about women's ambition.
• The power of stories is transformative; sharing struggles can illuminate paths for those still in the dark.
• In a world of self-doubt, Oprah reminds us: your light is your strongest asset—don’t let it dim.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Jamie Kern Lima (Guest) · 1 h 11 min speaking
• Evan Carmichael (Host) · 13 min speaking
• Brendan (Guest) · 4 min speaking
• Sean (Guest) · 4 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Believe It, Evan Carmichael, Barbara Walters
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Believe It
3. 20:00 – 30:00: Believe It
4. 30:00 – 40:00: Believe It
5. 50:00 – 1:00:00: Believe It, Feeding America, Together Rising
6. 1:00:00 – 1:10:00: Believe It
7. 1:10:00 – 1:20:00: Believe It

Notable quotes from "The Steps to Believe in Yourself (No Permission Needed) | Jamie Kern Lima"

• Remember I don't know if you'll remember this moment, but I think it was 9 years old. I was 9 years old when she was interviewed by Barbara Walters. And she said to her on…

  about Barbara Walters · at 0:53

• With it. And I think like one of the things that's so inspiring about what you do, Evan Carmichael, every single day is like you also inspire other people to believe, right?…

  about Evan Carmichael · at 1:49

• Let our light dim. We've forgotten to believe in oursel. We've forgotten we have a light inside of us at all. So my whole hope and prayer for this book is it reignites that…

  about Believe It · at 3:05

• Started saying the shades were selling out. The deep shade is down to 100 units and the tan. And I was just and then when the 10-minute mark hit and the sold out sign came…

  about QVC · at 12:30

• Just hopped on live, we're in the room. We're in a filming room right now and with other people are here. My publisher from Simon and Schustster was just on the phone and we're pub we're processing everything happening live.

  about Simon & Schuster · at 14:42

• How did I do that into one book that would be of service to other people right and so like for example I'm donating 100% of the proceeds by the way every penny from the book…

  about Feeding America · at 22:45

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Oprah Winfrey — Person · Referenced role model / mentor · 2 mentions
  Central inspirational figure: the speaker describes watching Oprah as a child, adopting her self-belief framing, and later meeting her as a real-life mentor who read the speaker's book first.
• Evan Carmichael — Person · Host / interviewer · 1 mention · first at 1:54
  Acts as the on-air interviewer prompting stories about Oprah, QVC, and self-belief; is explicitly praised for inspiring others to believe in themselves.
• Barbara Walters — Person · Referenced interviewer / journalist · 1 mention · first at 0:58
  Appears as the interviewer who asked Oprah a formative question; the recalled quote (“destined for greatness”) becomes a key catalyst for the speaker’s early self-belief.

Books & papers

• Believe It — Book · Primary recommendation · 12 mentions · first at 2:18
  The main book discussed in the podcast, written by the guest, sharing personal stories and lessons on self-belief and entrepreneurship.

Companies & orgs

• QVC — Company · Case study · 4 mentions
  Discussed as a pivotal platform where the guest faced a make-or-break moment for her business, illustrating the importance of authenticity and self-belief.
• Feeding America — Company · Charity · 1 mention · first at 52:37
  Mentioned as one of the charities to which the guest is donating 100% of the proceeds from her book.
• Together Rising — Company · Charity · 1 mention · first at 52:39
  Mentioned as one of the charities to which the guest is donating 100% of the proceeds from her book.
  How did I do that into one book that would be of service to other people right and so like for example I'm donating 100% of the proceeds by the way every penny from the book…
• Simon & Schuster — Company · Publisher · 2 mentions
  Mentioned as the publisher of the guest's book, 'Believe It'.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 I want to start with Oprah. Yeah. Talk to me about the importance of Oprah in your life, especially growing up.

0:09 Yeah. Growing up, uh, well, always as a little girl, I'd sit in my living room and watch watch her on television, and it was how I knew like, oh, one day I'd watch her interview other people and share their stories with the world. And I thought, that's that's the coolest thing. And um I uh her showing sharing her pain, sharing her I mean at the time she was doing this there was no social media right people weren't sharing their stories behind their stories and she was one of the first people that went out there and said like let me bear my soul and reveal all the stuff that most people are embarrassed about embarrassed to share embarrassed to ashamed of and and she really um I think did that and I remember I I don't know if you'll remember this moment, but I think it was 9 years old. I was 9 years old when she was interviewed by Barbara Walters. And uh and she said to her on national television, she said, "I always knew um

1:05 I was destined for greatness." And I remember after Oprah said that, I remember Evan sitting there as a little girl going, I know that feeling like that feeling that a lot of us have inside of us, like we're made for more. And if we can just break through our own self-doubt, uh, right? Like, like we know we have things to give the world or to create or to offer or to inspire. I remember having that feeling as a little girl when I heard her say that. And I also remember she got a ton of backlash in the press for it because a lot of people weren't used to somebody, especially a woman, but somebody saying like, "I'm destined for greatness and I've always had this feeling." And so when she said that, I remember, you know, watching the media's response to that, but I also remember connecting with it. And I think like one of the things that's so inspiring about what you do, Evan Carmichael, every single

1:56 day is like you you also inspire other people to believe, right? And and for me growing up, that's what that's what Oprah did for me. And so I had no idea I would one day meet her. I had no idea she'd become a real life mentor in my life. Um, she was one of the very first people to read my book cover to cover. I wanted her blessing on it because there's some stuff I share in there that I like 95% of this book, believe it, is stuff I've never shared before. And uh, so there's some Oprah stuff in there. And I wanted her her blessing before I share it. So yeah, she's um you know, in all the days I was a Denny's waitress and working at Safeway grocery store, pushing shopping carts, I don't know if I could have ever dreamed um that I would even just be here live with you. You know, I I don't know that I could have even imagined this, dreamed of this, being here with you uh or saying to you these words. Oprah was the

2:52 first person to read the book. like, yeah, but I made the decision to believe it, which is, you know, I think it's time for everyone. We've been in a dark season. It's been a tough 14 months for a lot of people and um a lot of us have let our light dim. We've forgotten to believe in oursel. We've forgotten we have a light inside of us at all. So my whole hope and prayer for this book is it reignites that light and that ability and and just self-belief again because a lot of people need to start dreaming again and believing that that things are possible.

3:24 One of my favorite Oprah stories from Believe It is you're you're about to go on QVC and you're stressing out because you only have 10 minutes and and you've bought all this inventory. is kind of make or break and you want to do it your way and show real people and show your your real face with the skin issues that you had and everybody's telling you no, it's the wrong thing and you drive to the parking lot and you're sitting outside QVC and then you imagine Oprah and Color Purple and how she manifested that. Take us a little deeper into that story.

3:56 Yeah. Um I feel like thank you for asking that question. And I feel like there's probably people that follow you and there's stories you share and then they grab on to those, right? And they tap in. We can all tap into other people's stories to give us strength. Um, and it's really why I wrote this book, too, is because I my prayers, all the stories and struggles and lessons I've gone through, hopefully someone else can grab on to those and use them in their own in their own journey. So yeah, one of those big stories was after three years of hearing no from all the beauty retailers, all the department stores, right? I created a product that I believed in and a lot of people watching us right now maybe that are entrepreneurs or that are creating something and maybe you're in a space where you're like not getting the traction you hoped or you're having people tell you no or not believe in

4:43 you. That was my journey for uh three years. So everyone had been telling us no. QVC had said no um time after time after time and we finally got this big break, Evan. Finally got this big break and we were going to get one shot on QVC and it meant we had this 10-minute window uh to either sell our product and hit the sales goal or not come back, right? And just to give everyone a little bit of context, um QVC's live television shopping channel would broadcast to 100 million homes. Um, and uh, and at the time, Evan, we were just we were still just selling two to three orders a day on our website, barely staying alive, 3 years into the business, hearing no after no after no after no, not knowing if we're going to make it, and we get this one shot to go live in this 10-minute window. And so, I'm like, okay. And then I learned it's a consignment deal, which means uh which means that we're not pay so we have to

5:46 we have to pay for all the inventory, right, to make it, ship it in, and then we go on air and we're only paid for what sells. And um I learned then that we would need to do over sell over 6,000 units of our product to hit the sales goal in a 10-minute window. So 6,000 units in this 10-minute window. Meanwhile, Evan, I'm like, you know, eating like like it was a date night. Me and my husband would have a date night if it was like the $1 hot dogs at Costco. And I don't know if you've ever been to a Costco in the outdoor hot dog stand and you go there and it's a dollar for a hot dog and they're good hot dogs, but like that's as fancy as we I mean we were down, right? And and so to figure out, okay, wow, everything's on the line for our business, you know, we have to figure out how we had to uh borrow money. We got we got turned away from 22 banks. It was the 23rd bank that said yes. um which is a small bank in

6:39 California gave us a SBA loan just to cover the amount of inventory to do this one airing on QVC. So everything was on the line and I was like, "Oh my gosh, I I I it was so much for me to handle." Um it felt so heavy. And I flew out to QVC, which is just outside of Philadelphia, a week before we got this one shot to go live. And I knew in that one shot we were either going my whole life would be changed uh or we were going to go bankrupt and out of business. And it felt so heavy. And here's why. Um we hired third party consultants who are amazing at helping people sell on television and sell their products and stores and all those things. And they change they help so many people. And they all told me the same thing. And they said, "If you're going to have a shot at succeeding in this 10-minute window, here's what you need to do. You need to put this type of model on the air," which was all women with perfect

7:37 skin. And I said to them, "But the authentic reason I started this company is because I don't have perfect skin. Like, I have bright red rosacea. It gets bumpy everywhere." And I'm like, you know, I created this product because there's so many people out there like me who can't find anything that works. I'm like, QVC is alive. You can't fake it. You can't Photoshop it. I'm like, I want to go on television and like prove it live. You have to remember, Evan, this is before Instagram live. This is before YouTube, right? And I was like, and no one was doing this. I'm like, let me just take my makeup off and show my bright red rosace. Let me prove live how this product works. And and I had this vision of putting real women of all different ages and shapes and sizes and skin tones and skin problems and all this stuff. And let me show live on them. And these expert consultants were mortified. Like they're like, "Listen."

8:27 And they they wanted the best for me, but they're like, "If you, you know, you're you're getting one shot and we want you to win and here's what you need to do. You need to put this type women will only buy makeup from people who have perfect skin who they'll never be able to look like." And so I was being told this message and I feel like every one of us in our life, we have moments in our life where our gut instinct is telling us one thing and other people are telling us another, other experts are telling us another, other, you know, people's opinions or or or the world that maybe we're not having success in our business yet. That lack of traction makes us feel like maybe our gut instincts wrong. So, the moment you're talking about, I I flew out a week ahead of time, a week before this 10-minute window. I sat in the QVC parking lot and I sat in this rental car all alone and I stood I just stared at

9:26 the front door of QVC and I knew the next time I walked through that door, my whole life was going to change or I was going to be bankrupt and my whole life was going to change for that that way. And I just sat there praying and crying and then uh it felt heavy and I I felt like okay it's easy in life for us to know what we stand for but then like often our values are put on the line. Do you know what I mean? And I was in this moment of going and honestly self-doubt started to enter my head. I'm like I had thoughts of like oh well I don't want to go bankrupt. So maybe if I listen to them and do it their way that the third party consultants if I do it their way to start with and then I have success and then I try it my way. I had all these thoughts. But I also know you can't fake authenticity. I also know the second you show up as who other people want you to be, you create a barrier of disconnection between you and any other

10:25 human being, including an audience, including your customers. Right? So, I knew that. Um, and I sat in that car freaking out every day for a week and I prayed and I cried and then I'm like, "What would Oprah do?" And I remember I remember a show where she said she wanted The Color Purple so bad that she ran around a track and was praying the song I surrender all and crying. And so, I just started singing I surrender all and I literally asked God to take it from me because it felt so heavy. Um, and I also just remembered who is this person I'm talking to? uh if I'm gonna have one shot in 10 minutes on QVC. Like I imagine for some reason I kept imagining a single mom like folding laundry who was too busy to remember that she mattered and too busy to remember that she's beautiful. I just thought about like if I was going to get the blessing of two seconds of her time and she was going to turn on her

11:20 television and see me live on QVC, I wanted her to look up and see other women who look like her and see me calling them beautiful and meaning it even if she didn't buy a single thing. You know what I mean? Like I wanted to stand for something than sell a ton of product and stand for nothing. And that's really what it came down to. But sometimes we know we know what we need to do, but when it's the hard thing, it's hard. And um I walked in in that building for that that 10-minute airing and and it was the like one of the scariest things I've ever done cuz it just felt so heavy. Um I was dripping sweat everywhere. I was a hot mess to be honest. And like I wasn't nervous for television, but I was nervous that my whole company was on the line. And I remember the 10-minute clock started and it was like 9:59, 9:58. And we were live and in front of a 100 million homes. And I remember the moment my my bright red

12:15 barefaced before shot came up. And then we walked over to all the models and I showed all different women of different ages and skin tones and skin skin uh types and all sizes and shapes. And I remember there was about a minute left in in the presentation and the host started saying the shades were selling out. The deep shade is down to 100 units and the tan. And I was just like, and then when the the the 10-minute mark hit and uh the sold out sign came right up across. Yes, that moment. That moment right there, I literally started sobbing.

12:45 34 everybody. A So, um you know, I'm I I think that in life, and listen, I've learned so much from experts. I continue to every single day. I am a lifetime student. And anytime I get advice from an expert, I think it's so important or anybody, a friend, a family member, I think it's so important we check in with our gut and go, is that advice right for me? And I think our gut is always stronger than than anyone else's advice. And our gut will tell us what the right advice is to listen to. And um and that was a life-changing moment for me um on the page you just showed. And um when I look back at so many of the mistakes I made, they were when I didn't listen to my my own gut and started to second guessess myself.

13:33 And a big reason I wrote believe it is really just to talk about how how do you go from because you know my story a lot of people think oh it's Denny's waitress turned billion dollar entrepreneur but my my real story is a girl who didn't believe in herself and and and figured out how to and and and didn't trust myself and learn how to tune in and hear my own intuition and trust it. And I just know it's the story of so many other people out there right now watching us live right now. um who I see in the comments. We're all on this journey in life, I think, of really learning, as you would say, Evan, to believe to believe in in in our self and and everything else.

14:15 What did you learn in this process? Like if you had like two things that came to mind for these folks of like manifesting a huge

14:24 visionary event, like what two things come to mind? Like, hey, I I was able to manifest this because these two things. What do you think comes through?

14:32 Oh my gosh, Brendan. Well, it's wild to answer that because I don't know if I processed it all. Do you know what I mean?

14:37 I know you haven't. Yeah, it's like happening in real time. So, you guys, right before Brendan and I just hopped on live, um we're in the room. We're in a filming room right now and with other people are here. My my publisher from Simon and Schustster was just on the phone and we're pub we're processing everything happening live. Um, but I think that, you know, what I would say is just it als you know, it starts with believing, believing that it's possible and and being willing to put yourself out there and, you know, we talked about this a little bit with just being willing to try something. I had no idea how this would go. It was my first ever live event that I've ever done.

15:13 Show up every day. She showed up for her belief and her dream every day. And now she's, you know, the number one best new release on Amazon. So already a number one bestseller. her first book. She pulled off her first event yesterday. 200,000 people watched. Yeah. So, why can't you dream?

15:29 Why can't you try something you've never done before? Why can't you say, "You know what?

15:34 I have this feeling in my heart." And that feeling in your heart has been sewn there. She and I both believe in a creator. We believe in God. And and there's some divine reason you've been gifted with all of those impulses you have, those dreams. They've been sw I always say they've been sewn into your heart. And if they're there, follow them, work for them, ask for them, dream for them. And if you do it over and over and over for a decade like she has in, you know, she did It Cosmetics. And then for what, the last two years? So yesterday was a culmination of two years.

16:08 And not just her, you know what's cool? It's not just her last two years. It's Dean's team mastering the model. It's Sage teams mastering the production. It's Tony building the studio. Like all these serendipitous things

16:21 had to have happened across four or five teams and across what 20 19 speakers. All these things happening in all of our lives all had to come together to one day

16:34 and it only happens because every one of them is moving their lives forward. Yeah.

16:39 And so you want to be around a people this is why we we this is why we talk about growth day so much. You want to be around that spirit, that spirit of people who are absolutely growing, moving towards our dreams. Even if we can talk about discouragement and we can have empathy and we can be like ah life is hard and it's a struggle, we can honor the struggle and just keep moving things forward because think about if all those people hadn't been moving their lives forward in the last two years, the innovation required to pull off yesterday

17:06 would not have happened. Yeah. Right. So it all came it like you so what you know it's what Paulouquo one of my mentors and great friends he wrote the book alchemist the alchemist uh bestselling the most followed author in the world online and uh the the fifth bestselling book of all time the alchemist here's what he he said in the alchemy sis when when you pursue your dream all the world conspires to support it. So good.

17:34 And so you think she put this book out there, she put this event out there and all the world the last two years is conspiring.

17:40 Isn't that beautiful? So beautiful. So that just asks, you know, that reminds me. So what is your dream right now? Like you're you're joining us live right now on the Grow Day Morning Show. What is something on your heart that if you just put it out there, if you put it out there more boldly, if you take that step, if you make that ask, if you ask someone to show up for help, how is the world then going to conspire? Right. All the world conspires for you. And

18:01 And you show up each day. Yeah. And you work with faith. Yeah. How many times was this event in your mind and this book launch in your mind a train wreck in the last four weeks? How many times did you cry? Did you get overwhelmed? I don't want you all to see this beautiful makeup she puts on and this beautiful soul she is taking off on the morning show. I've taken her makeup off on the morning show.

18:23 I just want you all to listen very closely. What you saw yesterday. Yeah. Didn't feel that smooth in the manifesting of the dream.

18:31 Yeah. So good, right? The output. No one sees the hours and the tears and the frustration and the late night phone calls and texts, right? That we all do. She does. I do. Like we commiserate together. And then when you show up though, it's game time. You show up. It's your Super Bowl. You're ready. You're going to deliver. Like yesterday, she just delivered for a 14 hours. 14 hours. So I just want you to understand, it's okay that you look like a hot mess right now. It's okay that yesterday you cried because you felt so far away from the dream.

19:03 Yeah. Do you show up every day with faith and work for that momentum? Work for that growth, work for that contribution, that difference, that impact, that change in your life.

19:14 Yeah. That's the thing. It's because for years all these people were working with faith each day to move their lives forward that then the serendipitous thing could happen. But pull one of them out. Pull pull if I hadn't like years ago had to figure out the seven-day live launch. That is like the model we all use for challenges now. If if if Tony didn't pivot from live events

19:41 in the pandemic. If if Dean Graiosi didn't pivot from TV to online, if uh all the speakers hadn't at some point in their life pivoted from doing their one job to to I want to share a message. If all that doesn't happen, it doesn't happen.

19:56 Yeah. It's it's it's you that this is one reason you have to in some way in my opinion you got to believe in a god or a higher order or or or some grand design is so beyond us because that seems so magical.

20:09 Yesterday was a 14-hour movie and it was a movie of possibility. I hope you watch it. You can still sign up to go see the replay.

20:19 And if you go to believe it.com, is that right? Is that what she said? Go to believe it.com um becoming unstoppable.com in the Facebook group there. Yeah, the replays are up right now. They're gonna they're going away. Yeah. And you know what was something that was so special? By the way, one thing Brendan just said too is like the messy part, right? I think um I think that's so important because I think all of us sometimes feel alone during that messy part or like it's just us. There was so many so many messy parts, so many details, so much hard work, so many tears that went into yesterday's event, but also that went into the book launching today. My first ever book launching today. and um you know, we're just like everyone else, even though the event was incredible, 214,000 people watched it.

20:59 Your journey of like going from not believing in yourself to believing in yourself and believing you're enough, how was it a decision that you made or was it really just this, you know, process of basically your entire life up until then? Yeah, it's been so many um so many lessons along the way and so many setbacks that I later realized were setups. Um so many things I did wrong and then really looking back at what were those things I did right. Right? Looking back at when I made decisions where I listened to other people's opinions or the experts instead of actually listening to my own gut. Oh, those were the things I did wrong when I look back at what happened, right? and it's been building on all of these things. And so, you know, in the book I share so many stories and it's wild because like literally 95% of the book is stuff I've never shared before, ever.

21:58 And I had this realization that a really big realization that, you know, because I get um DMs on Instagram every single day from so many girls and women um and people who say like, "Oh, wow. you started with nothing and built a billion dollar business from your living room. Like did you just get lucky or was like, you know, did someone give you a big break or like did you right all those things and I kind of had this realization, oh, when you just see the highlight reel or you just read the headlines, it makes it seem like, oh, maybe she just got lucky or she's, you know, whatever. And it's like, you know what? I felt this strong calling on my heart that if I could pour everything I've learned into how you do that like how did I do that um into one book that that would be of service to other people right and so like for example I'm donating 100% of the proceeds by the way every penny from the book I'm literally

22:56 purely just doing it for exactly the question you just asked which is to help every other person out there um learn to believe that stepping into all of who they're born to be is possible. Right? The thing when I look back on all of the lessons from going through years of hearing no because I you know I created a company called IT Cosmetics in my living room where I started with an idea and close to no money and I just thought once we created an amazing product that worked, I thought it would just do well, right? And then I then I started this journey of every beauty retailer saying no. Every department store, every QVC, everybody saying no, you're not the right fit. Uh you know, we don't think your positioning is right. We don't think you're right for the beauty industry. All those things. And when I look back of, you know, and I went through three years of hearing nos from everybody, um, and got down to under

23:51 $1,000 in in my bank account, which was our personal and business bank account, and didn't know how I was going to make it. And when I look back on all of the journey, like there's so many lessons I learned along the way, but one of the biggest ones and really a huge throughine in in this whole book is that like yeah, I worked really really hard and I didn't give up. And not giving up every time you get knocked down, every time you get a setback, that's so important because at the end of the day, a lot of people never realize their dreams because they actually just quit or they give up or they let their own self-doubt talk them out of it.

24:28 So, I I didn't give up and I worked really really hard. But like how I actually built a billion dollar business from my living room was like the most important thing I did when I look back at everything was like I made the decision to believe that I could. And when I try to dissect how did I do that, that's where that's really why I wrote this book is is sharing every single lesson on how do you actually truly peel back the layers on your why, not just do a why. Because that's the other thing, too. A lot of people when they they might keep a goal journal or they might write out their goals and then a lot of people will go in another step, right?

25:06 and they'll talk about their why like I'm doing this for um you know cuz I want to one day buy a house or I want to you know all these things or or do something for my kids or pay for their college or pay off my student loans whatever it is. And what I've seen over the years is that those wise they sound really good and when you tell them to other people they like sound great but if it's not deep deep deep deep to your core you're going to quit. it's not going to be strong enough for you to keep going when you face all these setbacks. And so one of the things I talk about in the book was like I because I've done a ton of things wrong.

25:46 I've done a ton of things wrong and I share those too. I've never shared this stuff before. I'm actually freaking out to be honest. But I just know it's not about me. It's going to be of service to so many people to know they're not alone in their setbacks and in their hard times and in how to handle them. But in in the book I talk about like of all I did a ton of things wrong but one of the things I did right was early on in my journey I knew okay I'm creating makeup products and of course I want them to work for me and my rosacea because nothing else will and of course I want to help other people and those are great wise but they weren't deep like deep deep deep enough and what I realized is in my whole childhood all growing up I only saw images of beauty in magazines and on TV commercials and they were never real, right? They're always overly photoshopped and I never saw anyone that looked like me or had

26:34 any skin challenges or and I realized in the development of this company while I was trying to create a product that actually worked and when I realized why didn't any other product work and then I realized, oh wait, I don't even know if the models are actually wearing the product they're advertising um all those things. I realized, okay, not only do I want to create a company that has great products, but I want to start using models that are every age, every size, every skin tone, every skin challenge, and I want to authentically uh define them as beautiful and and mean it and all those things. And I had this realization on the why beneath the why early on um that like for me it was like oh I I want to shift culture and beauty and and I want to do this for every little girl out there who's about to start doubting herself and every grown woman who still does. And that why was so deep for me because of my whole

27:33 childhood realizing I'd see these images and I'd want to look like them. I'd aspire to look like them. And at the same time, they always made me feel like I wasn't enough. And so this deep why was so important. I talk about like how to do that in the book for yourself for whatever your dream is. Because some people out there, they're like, "Oh my gosh, I really just want to dance and I want to or I want to start painting again or I want to launch a business. Um or I want to become a pastor or I want to start a blog." Right? Like we all have these things and I feel like we end up right because here's the big thing.

28:08 This is the big thing that and I I love just sharing this process in the book too but so many of us know we have this calling on our heart or this like you know kind of inkling where we want to step out and do something but like it's a way more comfortable in our comfort zone. And I feel like we when we stay in our comfort zone, it comes at the price of chipping away at our soul. That's the first thing. And when we have a gut a gut feeling, intuition like we're made for more, like like we have gifts or talents or ambitions to offer the world.

28:45 One hard part I've seen and experienced personally too is sometimes the people around us, even when they're great people, whether they're family or friends or whatever, and they love us dearly, they don't have that same inkling like like they don't get it. They're super happy in their comfort zone. And what happens to so many people is we have the volume turned up on listening to everyone around us. Um, and then we have the self-doubt in our heads of, oh, well, maybe I'm not qualified or maybe I don't have what it takes or maybe I don't, you know, other people are way more advanced artists than I am or other whatever, you know, that inter that inner critic. So, we start to turn up the volume on our own self-doubt. We start to listen to all the opinions of everyone else around us and before we know it, we talk ourselves out of our own truth. And this happens to so many people. And in this in in the book,

29:41 Believe It, like a big part of why I did it, too, is like I I I talk about the journey of how to love the circle around you, but how to turn down the volume on the stuff that's not for you. And and that goes against the calling of who you are and who you're created to be. And how do you add other people around you and turn the volume up on them? And and even more than that is is the self-doubt and everything that we all experience in our own heads, right? And I just feel like that self-doubt sometimes in our own heads is a bigger opposition against us than the people out there rejecting us or saying no or saying you're not the right fit for us or whatever it might be, right? And so this really t this book talks so much I share so much about how to break through that noise of self-doubt um and learn to actually hear your your own intuition and learn to trust yourself, right? Because so many people

30:47 don't even know even how to how to tune in and listen to their own intuition. Maybe they haven't even heard it ever or in a long time because everything around us is so much noise, you know, from other people's opinions to people not believing in us and us getting nos and rejected to then the self-doubt in our own head. It's a lot. And I think the journey of learning how to go from not trusting yourself to to truly trusting yourself is huge. And it's so many so many people, it's their journey they're on right now as well. So this book is definitely for them.

31:22 It's crazy what you're talking about right now. Even just, you know, loving the people around you, but maybe like turning down some voices or working through self-doubt. I was actually talking to my pastor this morning and we were just having this conversation and she was just saying, you know, a lot of us have very unique calls on our life. Like a lot more of us have those than realize. They either just don't realize them or they don't have, you know, the courage or the faith to kind of walk that out. and we were talking and I was like, it's not my job to get these people to understand me. Like it's my job to follow what I feel as though like God has put on my heart or what I feel as though it's like inside of me. And that's something that I've like I feel like has been a constant battle, not even necessarily with other people, but even with myself sometimes because something specifically that I'm even

32:11 trying to work on now is believing like the best is yet to come. and like being one of those people who believes like, "Oh, I am so excited for the future. I know what God has for me. I know it's going to be even better than what I've seen." And maybe it's just the year that we've been in or a lot of other life circumstances, but that's something that I'm working on for myself. And it's not about like being this positive person necessarily, but it's a deep core belief not only in myself, but that there is so much good to come. And obviously we're promised trials like that stuff will always happen. But I feel like when you're in the middle, like we talk about when you are talking about the difference between the headlines versus the reality, I feel as though that's where I feel like I'm kind of at right now in where so many people listening to this are. How do you how do you like navigate the in between? And not that it

33:06 ever necessarily stops, but when you feel like you're in the middle and you you you see more in your head than you see that's like in front of you.

33:15 Yeah. Yeah. So, and and I love that you talk so openly about your faith, right, in all of this. Um because for me that has been like the espresso in my latte in life, you know what I mean? In such a big way. Um, so a couple things I think that and and I have known this, but sometimes we know something and until we actually truly experience it and look back, then we're like we go from like believing it to like being certain of it, right? And in my journey, the thing that I know for sure, I know this for sure is that every setback we experience um is God's way of saying of setting us up. Every setback is a setup for all that is to come. And I believe that the things we go through, even periods like right now that you're describing of feeling like you're in the middle and you're trying so hard to uh uh anticipate and believe that the best is yet to come. Even this season, right, I believe uh is a setup uh for everything

34:22 uh that is to come. And I believe that in all my heart and when I look back at it, I have learned every setback and every hard season and every season that was just okay um was a way of actually making me strong enough to be able to handle the weight of the big God-sized dreams when they come true. Because God-sized dreams and stepping into our calling and stepping into who we were created to be, especially those of us that know in our heart, we're meant for more. We're meant to give more, serve more, create more, love more, inspire more, right? Be of service more. Uh I believe when you're at service at the highest capacity that it's not about you. It's about how has everything you've walked through and been through actually helping someone else. Believe it's possible to get through it. Believe it's possible to step into all of who they are. And we can't do that unless we've gone through it all as well. And

35:28 so I believe our setbacks are God's setups for everything that's to come. And it doesn't mean they're fun and it doesn't mean they're easy. uh when I look back at going through like the three years of rejection or I look back at you know painful moments right there was a there was a moment um where you know gosh the story when when you know we were a couple years into the business I didn't know how we were going to make it and we had a really big investor interested in our company and I thought like oh my gosh he's going to change my life because he had invested in all these consumer product companies that we all buy at the grocery store and he like his his private equity company had invested in a lot of them when they were super small and made them huge brand names, household names and I was like, "Oh my gosh." And and we went through all these meetings and at the very end and I thought like, "Oh, if he

36:19 invests in us then we're not going to go bankrupt and maybe he can help us get into all these stores like Sephora and Ulta and department stores who are all saying no to me." I thought it was the biggest like most exciting thing ever. And at the end we we flew out for the final meeting and he was standing three feet from me and my husband was right next to me and he said uh we're going to you know I wanted to share with you in person that we're so grateful for your time you know we're excited for all your building but we're going to pass on investing in cosmetics. It's a no. And I remember saying okay can you tell like can you give me some feedback like can you share why because I always think feedback's a gift um usually. And uh he said, "Do you want me to be honest with you?" And I said, "Yes, please." And he said, "I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you,

37:10 you know, with your body and your weight." And when he said my body and my weight, I remember this moment where I looked I was looking at him and it was almost like I was watching his lips move in slow motion as these words were coming out and I felt my whole body flood with like this lifetime of body doubt and self-doubt. And it was this moment where was like I was staring my own fear like straight in the eye. And I knew I had to keep my faith bigger than it. I also knew in that moment deep down inside I had this feeling. And this is why it's so important that we do the work of learning to listen to our gut and listen and learning to trust ourselves because in that moment I had no proof around me that this company would ever grow or become successful.

37:55 And then I have this person in front of me that I saw as a visionary. I saw as someone who truly created stellar brands and he's telling me, "No one will buy makeup from someone who looks like me, my body and my weight." And I had this feeling deep down inside my gut in that moment that he's wrong. And I also knew if I was ever going to prove it, I would have to figure out how to believe that for myself. And and the other thing is in that moment, I didn't even get mad at him. I didn't I mean, of course, it hurt me. Um it hurt me and I had to learn we talk about volume. I had to learn how to turn down the volume on those words from being on the repeat button in my head over and over and over for years. But I also knew in that moment like he's passing on investing my company because the sole reason I want to create this company, he's been impacted by the beauty industry his entire life and he's

38:56 learned just like we've all have been taught you have to look a certain way to for to sell something, right? and and so he was just I don't want to say a victim, but like a a byproduct of how what he's seen his whole life on television and in magazines. So it fueled me and this is part of why mindset is so important and why not slipping into that like wo is me victim kind of mindset. It was like oh no, you know what? This is a gift. This this is a setback right now. It really sucks. It like God, I don't know how I'm going to pay the bills. I don't know how I'm going to keep the lights on. Like I started going to the Costco. I don't have a Costco by you, but the Costco outdoor food stand where you get the dollar hot dogs. I was like, okay, God, I'm doing that and at least it tastes good. And I was like, what? Like, how am I going to keep this business alive?

39:43 That setback was a setup because it fueled me this deep deep deep deep why of like, oh, even this dude is impact like this dude in a business suit who has probably never bought a beauty product in his life is impacted the same way women are by the industry. And it it fueled me. And so I just I believe and really honestly the the reason I wrote this book and like I'm literally donating 100% of the proceeds of the book. The reason I wrote this book is because I believe all everything we've gone through, especially once we're through a lot of it, we learn like, oh wow, the next level of success is that it's not about us. like how can this how can how can my story your story everyone who's listening story actually be of service to other people when we actually have the courage to share it and for me um that's where I get my greatest joy and it's like the the lessons and the stories in this book

40:51 if if if this can save other people from making a lot of the mistakes I made uh and save them at least some nights of crying themselves to sleep at Right. But more importantly, help them on their journey of like believing themselves, trusting themselves, like knowing they're enoughs and and just deciding it's possible to step in to who they were born to be. Like that's to me that's everything. And so the season you're going through right now, okay, don't even get me started right now on your calling because first of all, um, you are magic. And so many people listening right now will agree with me.

41:31 And everything you're going through right now is of course part of your own journey. But we all have the blessing of being able to listen to you and then actually have it fill us up and have us all of us together feel less alone when we're going through the same things. Do you know what I mean? And so even if it's hard right now or uncertain right now or so many people I mean this year has been packed with uncertainty, right? More than so many people have ever experienced. And I would never downplay how hard it's been on so many people ever. Um I would never wish it on on people ever. Uh what I know I through so many, you know, and and this book is so many personal hardships too, right? From adoption, uh surprise, you're adopted in your 20s. I found out in my 20s to rejection to like all of these things personally, right? I just think that they're all part of our journey to make us strong enough to be able to carry the

42:37 weight of our calling when we step into it. Thank you. Something I love so much about you is how you are so willing to share and to open up and it's almost like you're this open book and you're trying to give value and you do give value to pretty much every single person who I'm sure like even comes across. I love so much about the story which we and this is in the book so we're not going to go too into it. I want to kind of circle back here because one of the things that I kept getting out of the book and for those of you listening

43:11 this is actually the first physical book that I have read in so long. We have babies about the same. I have a three-year-old and a 10-month-old. And yeah, so, you know, being pregnant, I had a pandemic baby. It's like Audible is the thing. Um, and I said, "No, I'm going to get the physical copy." And I'm so glad I did because of the pictures that are in the squirrel picture. Oh, I read that at like the perfect time. But if you guys have the audible, get the physical book. like it is so worth it to be able and then the beautiful picture you shared with your daughter like that there are just so many moments that

43:51 it's so open like I feel I feel like I know you I've never met you in my life and I'm going through this book and like wow like she really just bared her soul which is so beautiful

44:04 um but what what really came through in the book is how driven you are by your why and this why to change the beauty industry to change the way that to really make real women the star of the show and I'm curious now that you've sold your company now that you've become a mom now that you're in a different place in your life are you still driven by that same why or has it kind of expanded in a in a way now that you're an author and and so on.

44:41 Yeah. Um yeah, thank you for that. I think too, um the power of your why and one of the things I talk about in here that I'm so excited you're doing a book club and everything else because I think the doing the work of the why, but then peeling back the layers and going so much deeper um on the why beneath the why. I think that so many people, whether they are estheticians or spa owners or launching their own product line or or or a person that just has a goal in their goal journal, um so many people will come up with a why if they've even done that, right? A lot of people don't do that. They'll see companies have a big why or a mission statement, but then for their own goals, they don't attach a why to it. And I think it's so important to do that because it makes us so much so much less likely to give up. Uh when we have a really strong why, we can lead on it when times get tough. And one thing I

45:36 just want to share especially for your for your community is um the importance of not just having a why that sounds really good that when you share it with other people they're like that's amazing. often that why still isn't deep enough um to make you not quit when stuff gets when times get tough or to you know keep going when you feel like no one else is believing in you. Um and you know for my why you know I could have just said oh I want to create a product that solves my own problems or uh I want to create products that help so many other people and that would have been true. It would have been true. Um, but one thing and again I did so many things wrong as you know that I talk about in the book. One of the things that that I did right was I I peeled back the layers on the why like to the why beneath the why. And this is what I want to challenge everyone to do as well. Um, to something that was really

46:34 deep. Um, and for me, you know, I had realized my whole life I had seen these kind of commercials on television and in in beauty ads and of what beauty what the world told me beautiful looked like. And I always aspired to look like that. I loved it. Um, but as a little girl, I realized, oh, wow, they always kind of made me feel like I wasn't enough. And, you know, when I grew up, when I eventually got rosacea and all the things that I I I was like, why can't I find makeup that works? And then I realized, oh, I've never seen a model with rosacea uh saying, hey, this is great. and and and so I had this deep why that came from a lifetime of I guess the feeling of not enoughness

47:13 where I realized oh let me let me not just create a beauty company but you know put real women and and and and men all different ages, shapes, sizes, skin tones, skin challenges um call them beautiful and mean it uh for every little girl out there. like maybe I can do this in time to prevent other little girls out there who are about to see these images and start doubting themselves, right? And and help shift perspective on what is beauty for every adult who still struggles with with that. And so that why was really deep for me. And I think that, you know, for everyone in your community, whether their their hopes and goals are to um, you know, work as an aesthetician and just feel joy in their job for the next 40 years or maybe their dream is to start their own product line or their own, you know, expand their spa business. Whatever it is, I just think peeling back the layers because a lot of

48:10 times people will have a why that's like, "Oh, I want to help people or I want to

48:14 I want to make women look and feel their best." Yes. I want to make women look and feel their best. That's a great one. I want to pay for my kids college. It could be any of these things. And they sound so great when you share them with other people.

48:27 Yeah. You got to go deeper. And and it doesn't mean it's a different why. It means take the take that why and start going deeper because I feel like we have to be doing something that's truly meaningful to us that's so much bigger than ourselves to be able to lean on and keep going. Um, and I think that's so important and and that's one of the things that helped me keep going during all the years of rejection. You know, it was tough. and anyone in your community who is starting a product business. Um, I'm excited for him to read the book because I talk also just about, you know, like all the scrappy things and the unglamorous things and the things that you what do you do when people copy your product?

49:05 What do you do when you know all those kind of things? Um, but just having that why to lean back on I think is so important. And yeah, I mean I think

49:16 a lot of people put pressure on themselves for like what's your purpose? And I think we can have several purposes. And I think that they can continue to evolve. You know, my my whole life I thought I was going to um I would watch Oprah growing up and I thought, "Oh, one day I'm going to, you know, share other people's stories with the world and have a talk show." And I was working in my dream job. I thought as a news anchor. Uh but when I got rosacea, when I started realizing there's this need in the beauty industry for products and a whole new message, I had to know I I learned that knowing when to let go of a dream is as important as knowing when to go after one. And and my purpose shifted in that moment. And I chose to kind of trust myself in that. And you know, now um as a mom, definitely like definitely. And and also just, you know, I had a moment um I don't talk about this in the book

50:09 at all, but just to share with you, I had a moment uh about two years ago where I was I'd all of a sudden realized, oh my gosh, I was in my living room for years. We built to bigger offices, bigger offices, over a thousand employees, sold to L'Oreal, and I was sitting in this corner office that was brand new. It was my first time sitting in this brand new corner office at the IT Cosmetics headquarters. And our new offices were over 60,000 square feet. And my office overlooked the whole Manhattan skyline. And I had this huge

50:39 bathroom. I don't know why. I just felt like a bathroom was a big like a bathroom. And it was like a office bigger than almost any home I'd ever lived in. And I sat there in this moment knowing a couple things. And I just was like sobbing in my corn in my office going, "Wow, this is so beautiful. The art on the wall. Where am I? This is not how I was raised." Um but also wow like I made it like like that dream became this reality. I felt like I was in the movie Devil where's Prada looking around going where am I

51:13 and I could have stayed there right like like but the mission and the purpose and everything that that I had dreamed of L'Oreal's done such an amazing job at building that out and you know I stayed on as CEO for three years postacquisition. We doubled the size of the company the first two years postacquisition. The team is incredible. And I sat there in that moment going,"Oh wow, right now I could start doing all the cool stuff. Like right now I could start I'm in this office that the world tells me is what significance looks like. I could now go to all the fancy parties. I could do all these things."

51:48 But I had this this I'm on the inside. But then I had this feeling um of oh but you know you you're supposed to serve um in a whole different way that impacts people. You're supposed to share the stuff you've gone through to help other people. Yeah. And I knew it and it was weird because I a lot of people are scared to leave the things that make us feel important or significant. And I knew if I stayed there um it wasn't where it's supposed to be anymore. And it was really hard. I sobbed my eyes out sitting in that office and I made the decision to step away and it was really hard but it's because I felt to your question I felt my why and my purpose was transitioning to something new. Um and I knew if I ever wrote a book I'd want to donate 100% of the proceeds which I am to Feeding America and Together Rising. I also know that when we really share our stories, you know, that's when we all come together and get

52:46 stronger and rise higher and go, "Oh, I don't want to make that mistake." Or, "Oh, that's how Jamie handled that person telling her she's not enough. I'm going to, you know, I'm not going to let anyone look me in the eye."

52:58 Relatable. The book is so relatable. And I mean, you know, we both have um suffered miscarriage and just sharing that I I think for so many women there's a shame around that and there's a scary piece around that. And I remember when I told my community, I felt like I had to tell them because I was just going underground. I needed time to heal and couldn't show up in the same way. Yeah.

53:27 And I received at least 50 emails from women sharing their story and saying thank you and and for sharing. And I realized like on such a small level just by me sharing that I went through that and the pain and that like I'm okay and you can keep going and it's normal and there's nothing wrong with you. And so when I was reading that section of your book, I'm like, this is incredible. just this alone sharing that like this happens and you're okay and you're normal and you can keep going and you can be a huge success and you can have a family

54:07 was such a beautiful piece too for for women to hear because that can that can be devastating that can stop you from going after your why you know so

54:19 such a such a big piece yeah and you know I um it's really hard We're in we're in the midst of struggle and setback and I um you know just to share one thing I I did this this kind of big book launch event this week where I invited um a couple friends to speak. One of them was Robin Roberts of Good Morning America and uh she shared something you just reminded me of that I want to share in case this also as of service inspires you know your whole community too. uh we were talking about our greatest accomplishments and things like that and she said something and you know Robin has won every award you can possibly win and she's in the broadcast hall of fame and she still wakes up all of America good morning America every single day she's won every sports award everything and she said the things that fulfill her the things that she is the most proud of in her life aren't anything she's accomplished it's the

55:13 things she's overcome so the things that literally bring her the most joy, most fulfillment, most most that she's most proud of are the things she's overcome.

55:23 The biggest opportunity for growth. Yeah. And just Yeah. Yeah. Completely. And then just knowing we're strong enough

55:30 to get through them and and then can be there like I'm sure you're sharing your story. um you know, helps everyone else process their own experiences, especially people that have been keeping them to themselves or not really sure or feeling alone in them, right? Feeling like it's just them or or something's wrong with them. And you know, when I was going through I went through a decade of of not being able to carry pregnancy to full term and um had several different times where that was really challenging and I was I was hiding it for a long time. none of my employees knew. Um, and we were doing fertility treatments and all the things and um, and you know, I felt like my body was betraying me, like my body was failing me and like let you know I what was supposed to happen wasn't happening.

56:22 And it's a there's so many emotions that come with that. Um, and you know, I had also found out by surprise I was adopted. And there's so many things. Um,

56:33 I want to talk about when you said, um, I found comfort in knowledge that being underestimated can be a superpower. It sounds really great, right? Like we both have had experiences where we can now look back and say, "Oh, you just got to go. You got to push. You just got to believe it." What do you tell again that mom that may be home folding the laundry or that guy that's, you know, just got a divorce and is feeling on a down and out? How what would you how would you tell them to believe it? Like even though someone's told you no or even though you're in that struggle,

57:15 like believe it, right? So I think I think the very first thing is knowing and believing that like every one of us has this person. I believe we're all born to be and I think most people never actually become that person. I think most people uh end up for a lot of reasons talking like staying in their comfort zone um almost letting it chip away at their soul because I think that's what happens when we stay in our comfort zone and also like talking themselves out of their own truth right and I think the very first thing in order to believe that people need to do is make the decision they want to

57:58 right that's the most important because a lot of people will never make the decision that they want to learn how to believe in themselves that they want to learn how to believe it's possible to step into all of who they're born to be. Um, and I think that, you know, there's a lot of um lessons I've learned that now I really like share as tips in the book on on how to do this because I think we're all on a journey. Um once we decide you're like yeah I I want to you know become the person I was born to be be step into all of who I am. Um then there's a lot a lot it's a journey a lot of things we need to do. So you know um one story one quick story and then some tips on what to do for that is uh on underestimated is you know for me I feel like I've always been underestimated for whatever reason. And I think sometimes when we're kind to other people, we instantly are underestimated. I think

58:55 sometime, you know what I mean? And I think that I mean one moment for example, and I think you can use people's underestimation as fuel. And I think sometimes it it it becomes 360 and it really works as grace in your own journey. Um, and some people might say, you know, a lot of people say, "Oh, well, things happen for a reason, or the universe is always right, or or God always knows what he's doing." And there's a lot of uh if you're someone that's always underestimated, I don't think it's an accident. I think that it's actually supposed to be part of who you are on your own journey and the things that you become strong enough to overcome and smart enough to overcome, right? And uh one example is you know this was before our launch on QVC where a few years into this company I'd started in my living room thought it was going to be you know great and meanwhile we got down to under $1,000 in our bank

59:49 account which was our personal and our business bank account. I don't know Sean if you've ever like I would go to the ATM if I needed 20 bucks and like I'd hit no receipt. Right. I couldn't I couldn't stomach seeing the receipt and um

1:00:03 Yes. Yes. Right. And we finally got this call that I thought was life-changing from a potential investor private equity company and and they loved our product. Loved our product. And I was like, "Oh my gosh, Sean, this is going to be huge." Because they this particular private equity company had created uh or I should say invested in and built a lot of the products we buy at the grocery store and they turned in a lot of like consumer products from Unknown into big household names, huge companies. I was like, "Oh my gosh, if they invest in us, like A, we we're not going to go bankrupt. B, what if they can use their leverage to get us into all these retail stores that are saying no?" I was so excited. And so we started doing meetings with them and uh meeting after meeting. We started the diligence phase, which is when we show them like all of our projections and the future products we want to launch and all that stuff.

1:00:55 And I remember the final meeting and I thought like this is going to be life-changing. My husband and I flew up to this meeting and we were standing like 3 feet from the head guy and um he said to me like, you know, we really love your product and and uh we want to thank you for everything, but it's a no. We're going to pass on investing in your company. And I said, and I was so used to hearing no at that point, right? So I was like, okay, okay. Um, but can you share why like you know you know and because feedback's usually a gift and

1:01:25 and he was literally like three feet from me and he says do you want me to be honest with you?

1:01:30 And I said yes please. And then he he literally looked at me and he said I just don't think women are going to buy makeup from someone who looks like you, you know, with your body and your weight. And I remember as he was saying this to me, I remember like I felt my whole body flood with like a lifetime of body doubt and uh self-doubt. And it was so weird cuz I didn't get mad or even hurt that moment. I felt this crazy feeling of like my own fear staring back at me first of all as he was talking. And I felt this deep feeling, this deep knowing I should call it, that he's wrong.

1:02:10 But I also knew if I was ever going to prove that, I would a need to figure out how to believe it for myself, right? Because that's that's literally half of it. And I thanked him for his time, for his honest advice. And here's what happened in that moment. And by the way, I think this is the defining thing for so many people out there dealing with rejections and how to handle them. our human nature, our humanness wants to go to um a victim mentality, anger, all those things like, "Oh, f him." Like I like what a jerk. Like all those things, right? But it was like of all the things I did wrong, this is one of the things I did right where I was like, "Oh my gosh, it hit me." He was passing on investing in our company because of my weight. I was like, "Wow, he is as much of a byproduct of the beauty industry his whole life as I am." Right? It's like, "Wow, he's making business decisions because in his whole life, he's just

1:03:10 seen one type of beauty on TV or in magazines and he doesn't believe any other way will make him money." And I realized this this why is so deep. It's so powerful. Like not just, oh, let me create products that work. It's like, and by the way, by the way, um, oh my gosh, I'll go off on this for an hour, but so many people, because I've seen so many people fail, right, in their businesses, and I feel like it's cuz they create their mission, their why, and it just sounds good. Like in this case, my why could have been like, oh, I want to solve my own skin problems, and I want to help other women and other people and other men and other people that the same. And that would be a great why, and it would sound really good, but it wouldn't have been deep enough to keep me going in all those hard years.

1:03:53 And a lot of people have these W's that sound great, like, "Oh, I want to pay for my kids school and one day or I want to buy a house." And like, those are great. And if you tell someone else that why, they'll think you're amazing. But literally, it's not deep enough to the core of pain inside of you that's going to keep you going during all the hard times that face most of us, right? So, like in that moment, he was comp obviously completely underestimating me. I also knew I'm also underestimating myself and I have to figure out not to.

1:04:25 But I turned it into like fuel for that like deep why like the real why I needed to keep going. And here's the crazy thing about when we trust ourselves and we tr and we learn to hear ourselves and trust ourselves, which is like half of my book on how I figured out for me how to how to do that in a lot of cases and how other people can as well. But like when we believe and trust, whether it's in the universe, whether it's a power greater than ourselves, for me, faith's a big deal. I believe stuff's divinely orchestrated in my life. And so many times these huge painful rejections or setbacks or nos like suck in the time and they're devastating and they don't make sense and they're not fair, but like years later, right, we can look back on them and be like, "Oh my gosh, that was grace." Because had this dude said yes to me at that time, Sean, I was so desperate. I would have been like, "Take most of the company for like

1:05:25 anything, just help us survive." And it's like instead, because of so many people rejecting me, I couldn't even give my company away for a little bit of money for so many years. And then by the time fast forward many years and we did bring on some investors toward toward the end, but fast forward to 2016 um when L'Oreal bought our company, I was I was still the largest shareholder. And that changed my life, right? And had he said yes to me back then, like who knows what I'd end up owning. Um and and and and the day um so and by the way, we met with L'Oreal for 3 years. I was really hoping to partner with them cuz I was like, "Oh, they could take our vision and scale it globally really quickly and but they said no for 3 years." And when it eventually was a yes, uh they were able to announce the it was their largest acquisition in US history and it was this all cash deal and this big thing and I got an email from that guy

1:06:24 from that investor the day of the deal cuz it went on the Wall Street Journal online homepage and all this stuff and he said um I congratulations on your deal. I was wrong. Um, and it also I learned it would have been the most successful investment in his company's history had he said yes. Right. But he underestimated me.

1:06:43 You talk about your why running deep, right? And it sounds good, but I think you prove that when you

1:06:51 It wasn't just about you. I mean, when Oh, yes. Yes. you. He was saying no. Like not everyone looks like the person on the cover of a magazine or a beauty mag. Not everyone looks like that. So you and I would be bold enough to say that I believe that that's maybe 10% of the population. So you're you're you're excluding 90% of the population because of what you think beauty is, but not really going to the person that maybe they have beauty inside of them and this is what's going to bring them out. So, you know, I just really want to commend you on not just having something that sounded good, but it it made you like help other people feel good. And you said something earlier about uh what you were born to be. And I know that this subject is it was very emotional in the book. And you know, as a person that never met their their biological father before, you know, you also transcended finding

1:08:04 out a secret that would devastate most and you again had to believe it and believe in yourself and I think you know what I'm talking about. Can you just share just a little bit of that?

1:08:19 Thank you. Yeah. And you know, um, really fast, one thing you asked me earlier, I just realized I forgot to you said how for people in that moment when they're shaking and they're, "How do I get through this? What did you do? What was your mindset?" It's exactly what you just said, like I forgot to I forgot to answer you. So, just to share it really quick in case it's about you in that moment, um, when I'm shaking on live TV and I feel like everything's on the line, exactly what you just said, Sean. I knew it can't be about me or I'm effed. I'm done. Because literally, if you want the real truth, I was wearing double Spanx at the time. I'm like, my dress feels tight. Is my Spanx absorbing all my sweat dripping down cuz I'm freaking out. That's what's going on in my head, right? And if I stay there's that famous thing, if you stay in your head, you're dead, right? I knew this is not about me or I'm going to fail. And

1:09:05 it was like in that moment, that's when you dig deep and you call on your why. It's like, oh, this is like for every person out there watching who deserves to see a different who deserves to see me calling real people beautiful and meaning it. Like that's what it was about. And so in that moment, the only way I got through it and didn't fail was like I had to make it not about me. It had to be about something so much bigger than me. Um or I it was just too much pressure to handle. I think I couldn't have I couldn't have um you know I couldn't have made it through let alone uh connected in an authentic way where people are going to keep their channel on me not turn it off and consider buying the product right um and that's the thing is like and that's the other thing is your mission has to be so authentic because had I shown up with this why that was great but not like the deep core I don't think people would

1:09:58 have connected the same way and anyways yeah so um I go deep in book on some personal stuff. I would say 95% of this book I've never shared are stories and lessons I've never shared before.

1:10:10 Who's your biggest critic? And you can guess who they said. I'm assuming it was themselves. It was them. It was, you know, them sitting there and being like, I am my biggest critic. And I just You just said you got a million nos.

1:10:25 Like, is this a I love your mug. It's my book. Listen, is this a woman thing? Is this a man thing? Is this a learned thing? You you obviously went through it,

1:10:39 but how but somehow going through with all those nos, which a lot of these women are like, if I heard that many nos, I would just quit. How the heck do you deal with all those nos and then continue to believe in it? Yeah, I'm so first of all, thank you for asking that question because I think when we share these nos and we share this rejection, uh again, back to what you guys do every single day helps everyone feel less alone. So, thank you for even asking that. I think this is huge because when you Google my story, you don't see that.

1:11:05 You just see like a fairy tale Cinderella story. And I realized from getting so many DMs on Instagram that, you know, women think like, "Oh, did you just have connections or did you just get lucky or did you?" And I'm like, "No." and and a big part of the journey was handling the nose and how so um thank you for asking that. Yeah, just just to use I guess one one quick story that's an example of this that maybe um because I think everybody listening right now probably has rejection in some form and then how do you handle your own inner critic from like not taking over, right? I think when we when we when we listen to our own inner critic and when we turn the volume up on that instead of learning how to turn it down, I think we end up literally talking ourselves out of our own truth and our own calling and our own purpose in in this life. And so I think one of our greatest journeys literally every human being and

1:12:01 especially every woman and and doubly now that I'm a mom now that I'm a mom because I've been CEO of a billion dollar company and I've been a mom being a mom is harder.

1:12:14 Listen to that ladies listen to that. A billion dollar company mom is harder. Mom is harder. And and I also noticed since being a mom too, which I love that you guys talk about this a lot, but my inner critic has gotten louder and and and you know, comparison, all those things that every human being deals with, I think I think gets doubled down on us when we become a mom. And so I think learning how and and you know, I talk about this a lot and believe it. This idea of how do you turn down the volume? Like I imagine cat and nat I imagine this imaginary volume dial literally in my own head when I hear my inner critic come out that says Jamie you're not qualified or you're not enough or you're all these things I have to literally imagine myself turning or by the way by the way sometimes it's our partner sometimes it's our friends and family who love us sometimes it's our kiddos sometimes it's whoever they mean well

1:13:13 but they say something like are you sure you should quit your job and go after that or what do you know about doing that or you know all the things right and they mean well but I've learned to like literally imagine this volume dial and I turn down the volume on that and I have to and this is a daily thing by the way still to this day I have to like intentionally imagine myself turning up the volume on other words that replace those words that I know are true even when they're hard to believe like Oh, you've all you might you might have no experience in beauty, Jamie, but you you are going to figure this out. Like you've always figured it out or you're going to work hard or you're not going to let you know no stop you all those things, right? And I try to just turn down turn up the volume on those things.

1:14:02 And I think every single person in our daily lives needs to do this because what I think happens is we end up right so I so when I went on this three-year journey of of of hearing nos the first three years of my company and we got down to under,000 in our bank account uh which was personal and company combined. And I was like, I kept feeling in my intuition like this, I was supposed to be doing this, like I was supposed to be creating this makeup company that solved my own skin problems and also helped to to shift culture around the kind of images we see for beauty. And I just had this big dream and it kept feeling right. But sometimes like our we start to second guess our own gut when there's no proof around us that we're right. And so for three years it was like all the nos, all the beauty experts like Sephora and all the department stores and uh QVC, they all said, "No, you're not you're not the right fit. Um we don't

1:14:56 want to bet on you. We don't think you'll make us money." Right? All those things. And when you have experts telling you they don't think you're going to make it, then you have, you know, there's no proof around you that you're going to make it. And then you have friends and family worried about you. At the end of the day, learning how to turn down the volume on all that, including your own self-doubt and like hearing your own gut for me, I've done a million things wrong in my journey. Um, and I share all those too in the book, but like one of the things I did right was was I learned to hear my own gut and I and I made the decision to trust myself uh when it said keep going. I'm supposed to be doing this. Um, and that changed everything.

1:15:40 You know, I feel like a lot of people they get they, you know, they fail or uh they try and they fail and then they're like, "Well, I don't have it in me to to do more." They just feel so crushed crushed by failing. And, you know, I I Cat and I sometimes we joke because we were never um super successful like in school or in any of the traditional things where other people were shining. So we're like every time something doesn't work out for us, we're almost like we have great practice in failing, we're like if something really turns out well, we're like, "Well, this is new.

1:16:11 This is very exciting." But when you say like you learn how to like trust your gut, I think that like that inner it's it feels like it can be such a small thing inside you. People want to tune into that and they want to hear it. It's like in their mind they know what they have is a great idea, but they need to like they don't know how to do it and they can feel their gut.

1:16:29 Is there a feeling in your what's the gut? Yeah. Oh. Oh gosh. Okay. I'm so excited to share a thought with you really fast. I have a question for you if it's okay to ask. Do you guys think that part of like what you do now and why you're so successful everywhere? Um, which I'll just say that about you because it it's true. Um,

1:16:46 do you feel like you're not afraid to fail? And that's a big part of it. And that's a big part of,

1:16:49 you know, I think it's sort of our detriment too because we also are are shocked when we're successful. And and you know, I think that when you learn, you know, I dropped out of high school. When you learn to not be afraid or ashamed of what or who you were, you let go of all these expectations. Like so many people are afraid to say, "I can't afford it." You know what? I just can't afford it. Like, you know, this is I don't have the money. Like, I can't go out for dinner cuz I have no money in my bank account. Like, all these secrets that we've been taught to keep or not share. You know, I'm having a hard time with my husband, right? I'm not. But like, you know, all these things where spread rumors. No, like it's very it's like you have to constantly front yourself and I think that we're gifted at our gift is being okay with our flaws.

1:17:38 But I also think that like although they were traditional failures, I think what it sort of showed us is that we don't have to follow the path where everybody else is successful. Like I remember when I wasn't going to be able to afford to go to um university, which is you guys call it college, but not a community college university. I couldn't afford unless I I took out loans and I also didn't have the marks to get in. And I remember someone saying to me like you're never going to get a job if you don't go to university. And I was like I and I remember thinking to myself, I don't necessarily think that's true. I think I can be successful and not have to go spend all that money for the four years and maybe study something that may or may not apply to a job or something I want to do in the future. And so like the failures that look like failures to other people were sometimes just like if

1:18:18 they were successes in other ways, you know. Totally. And one thing you just said too that's so powerful is that when that person told you that you didn't you already knew that they were wrong. You had that feeling like you knew right so you trusted yourself in that which I think is huge. One thing before I forget oh my gosh then I want to share something. Uh this is so big um what you just said about failing I think too and just sharing too that like for for all of us right because I'm part of your community too and and appreciate you every how you guys show up in the world so much but for me and everyone else part of your community right now like listening to this I think this is huge because you watching your success and your impact and all the things in real time and then hearing that you're not afraid to fail right I think this is so big because when you look at like all the research it shows even Even women,

1:19:05 it should like so many studies show that women won't ask for a raise until they meet 100% of the qualifications or won't ask for a promotion whereas men it's 60%. Right? When they meet about 60% of the qualifications, they'll ask for a raise or they'll ask for a promotion uh or apply for a job. And for women it's 100%. And it's because we're from the time we're little we become sort of people pleasers, perfectionists a lot of times. Also, we're just we're scared to fail and we wait until we think we're going to have it perfect to to to go take the dream and take the big step and launch the thing. And I feel like that is such a disservice because we end up literally never stepping into the person we're born to be. We end up staying in our comfort zone, like letting it chip away at our soul. And you guys are living, breathing examples. Um, and I hope and pray I am too because I've been trying to I've been oh my gosh, there's

1:20:00 been so many things where I've been like, you know what, it's because I wasn't afraid to fail over and over and over and I wasn't afraid to get rejected over and over and over and over uh that this eventually happened, right? And you know, one one big thing that um uh that stands out to me is, you know, we were a couple years into our company and just hearing nos from everyone. I didn't know that one day the company would be a success, but I just kept having this feeling kind of like when you just described the person said, "Oh, you need to go to to university to make it." And you're like, "Oh, no. I don't think so."

1:20:32 Right. I just kept having this feeling that I was supposed to be doing it. Uh but but I didn't know how we were going to survive. And a couple years into the business, uh we got a call from a potential investor. Um and I was so excited because we were down to no money. And this investor ran this big private equity company and they invested in all of these uh consumer product companies that we all buy in the grocery store like big names that and they invested in a lot of them when they were teenytiny before anyone knew them and made them in household names. And I was freaking out because I'm like, "Oh my gosh, if they invest in our company, A, I'm not going to go bankrupt. B, maybe they can use their leverage to get us into these stores that are that are telling me no." I was so excited and we started the meetings and uh meeting after meeting and we got to the diligence phase which is where we show

1:21:19 them you know product future product launches and projections and all that and it came down to the last meeting and I thought it was the day my life was going to change and I'll never forget my husband and I flew up for the meeting and we were standing there about three feet away from the head guy and he thanked us and he said we really love your product uh but it's a no we're going to pass are investing in it cosmetics, right? And I sat there and I I said, "Okay, can you tell me why? Can you give me some feedback?" Because feedback's usually a gift.

1:21:52 And I'll never forget this moment in my life. It was a defining moment. And and I think so many people will be able to relate to this because we all have these moments in different in different ways. Uh but when I asked him like, "Oh, why is it a no?" you know, he looked at me and he's like, he's like three feet from my face. Um, and he said, uh, do you want me to be really honest with you? And I said, yes, please. And he said, I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight. I did not.

1:22:26 Oh my god. Oh my god. Freaking lying. Oh my god. And I sat there and it was wild because for me um you know a lifetime of body doubt like like flooded my body all at once and I was was watching these words come out of his mouth. Two things happened though and this is your story reminded me of this story. Two things happened in that moment. I mean listen I went to my car and baldled my eyes out. I had to figure out how to not replay those words over and over forever. Um, but in that moment, in that moment when you literally three feet from me saying those words, I remember like distinctly I remember having this feeling in my gut like deep down inside like he's wrong.

1:23:06 Just like what you just said about university, I was like, he's wrong. And I knew it. I felt it. Um and and and I also realized, oh wow, this dude is passing on investing my company because he's just as much I don't want to say a victim, but but uh impacted by the whole beauty industry, too, that tells you to look a certain way to make money, right? So, it fueled me more to keep going. Um, and one last thing to share just because I think like it's fun when we share our victories too is um, six years later the day uh, L'Oreal acquired at Cosmetics, they they did a big press release, so it went everywhere uh, when the day I sold my company and this was all over the homepages of of Wall Street Journal and everywhere. And I got a I hadn't heard from him in six years. And I actually got an email from him uh, and he said uh, congratulations from that investor, the guy that said no. He said, "Uh,

1:24:01 congratulations. Uh, I'm so happy for you. I was wrong." And Wow. Yeah. And and and I this is the cool part about uh life is I learned like it would have been the most successful investment in his firm's history. But but also cat and I'm telling you there there's a famous saying um rejection is God's protection. Uh which you could also say rejection is the universe's protection, right? It's applies differently for everybody. But like had he had he not rejected me, I was so desperate at the time, I probably would have given him the majority of the company for almost no money and and thought and been and been grateful because he didn't believe in me. Even though it sucked at the time, it was so painful. Um, fast forward six years, we were still the biggest shareholders of the company when we sold it. So, it was like life changing. So, thank God he didn't believe in me at the time. Um, and anyways, sometimes we get these

1:24:58 rejections and they suck, but like I I try to keep that faith. I think it's so important to remember though too that failure and rejection aren't like just because you can handle it doesn't mean you don't feel it. So, you can totally feel like you can get it it can get you down and that I think a lot of people think that

1:25:16 you know rejection and failure you when you have gone through it there's no you're kind of like I'm immune to it. It's fine. It's good. No, you can still definitely, but how do you move through it?

1:25:26 And if you don't feel it, you don't grow from it, right? Like if you don't feel anything,

1:25:31 you might be a little bit too medicicated or something, but you have to feel. That's okay.

1:25:36 You got to be able to still feel and and yet to be able to feel it. Exactly. If you were to just like not feel it and carry on, you wouldn't have learned that that that wasn't the right person for you and that wasn't the person that was going to put forth your company the way you wanted it to be because you absolutely needed to be the leader of this company for it to be the way that it for the way to sell the way that it didn't do so well and if they had put you know who knows who who you would have put in your place.

1:26:01 I love that you share that that it's okay to feel it because yeah even to this day I feel it. I feel hurt to this now anytime I get rejected or anytime like a friend doesn't show up for me how I hope they would or you know what I mean. I mean to this day it like will destroy me inside and I think it's good to share those things because

1:26:22 I think a lot of people are embarrassed when they feel when they so their eyes out for days or they feel like it's a weakness. I don't I don't think it is. I think,

1:26:29 but when you get rejected, that feeling of rejection is like, you know, it's ironic you share that story cuz we were out in LA for TV and we got a a huge deal in February. Uh, fast forward and our year ago,

1:26:45 our agents were like, "This is unheard of. This doesn't happen." Our agent at WME called us. You know, fast forward to April, the deal's gone, done because of life's COVID, you know, all the circumstances maybe

1:26:59 or protection. Yep. Or protection. And it was like a major, it was like what, you know, it was another knock, but it's again, it fueled us to go, all right, where can we go next? How can we call? So I think the feeling what I I love about what your book and what you're talking about and you know everyone needs the book because women often you see someone who has an idea and then you see the success right so I actually use Sarah Blakeley as an example who I don't know much about but mad respect because she obviously started it in her university room Spanx from here to there and but her story is

1:27:35 you see that she had the idea and then you see her building of like you know success and the in between everyone can say, "I had hardships. It was really hard. I had nos." But when you can't relate to the story of a man sitting there and telling you to your face the reason you're not successful, it's very easy in your own brain. Because storytelling is what brings us all together. When you can actually take the humanity in someone's story, then you can relay it to yourself and say, "Well, I can maybe do that." Because maybe your mom or dad used to say that to you that, you know, that's a pipe dream. It's never going to happen. Get a real job.

1:28:10 Ladies and gentlemen, rock this house. So, welcome to the stage K Lim. Jamie Kle.

1:28:22 Every single one of us has had someone tell us we're not enough. Every single one of us has had someone say words to us that

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "The Steps to Believe in Yourself (No Permission Needed) | Jamie Kern Lima"?

Jamie Kern Lima (Guest), Evan Carmichael (Host), Brendan (Guest), Sean (Guest).

What is "The Steps to Believe in Yourself (No Permission Needed) | Jamie Kern Lima" about?

Jamie Kern Lima reflects on the profound impact Oprah Winfrey had on her self-belief and ambition from a young age, highlighting how Oprah's openness about her struggles and her declaration of being "destined for greatness" inspired Lima to recognize her own potential and the importance of overcoming self-doubt. Lima discusses the societal backlash Oprah faced for her confidence, illustrating…

What is mentioned in this Jamie Kern Lima episode?

8 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Believe It, Oprah Winfrey, QVC, Evan Carmichael, Feeding America, Together Rising. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The Steps to Believe in Yourself (No Permission Needed) | Jamie Kern Lima"?

The episode runs 1 h 29 min; the transcript is about 17,493 words in 151 timestamped sections.

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