Transcript

When You Change Your Relationship with THIS You Will Change Your Life | Jamie Kern Lima

From Jamie Kern Lima · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 30 min · 17,517 words · 202 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "When You Change Your Relationship with THIS You Will Change Your Life | Jamie Kern Lima", an episode of Jamie Kern Lima published December 10, 2025 (1 h 30 min, about 17,517 words). It mentions 16 people, works and ideas, including Intuition ("knowing"), universe, Four Rs of rejection, You're not crazy, you're just first, IT Cosmetics concealer.

What this episode is about

The topic explores the transformative power of changing one's relationship with rejection and failure, emphasizing that overcoming the fear of these experiences can lead to personal growth and fulfillment. The methodology presented consists of the four Rs—reveal, redefine, revisit, and revel—which guide individuals to confront their fears and reshape their identities beyond negative labels associated with past rejections.

Key takeaways

  • Fear-driven 'I'm not enough' mantra: the invisible chain keeping dreams jailed.
  • Rejection's red pen: harsh editor or secret life coach, depending on your mindset.
  • First thought after rejection: snapshot of self-doubt, time to retake the photo.
  • Stuck in failure lane? Time for a U-turn with redefined roadmaps.
  • Cost of fear: unfulfilled dreams and dusty ambitions left in the attic.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Divine timing
  2. – 20:00: universe
  3. – 30:00: universe, You're not crazy, you're just first, North London
  4. – 40:00: universe
  5. – 50:00: High Five Habit, Inauthenticity
  6. – 1:00:00: universe
  7. – 1:10:00: universe
  8. – 1:20:00: universe
  9. – 1:30:00: diversity of thought
  10. – 1:30:17: Jamie K Le, Karn Lemur

Notable quotes from "When You Change Your Relationship with THIS You Will Change Your Life | Jamie Kern Lima"

  • This is the thing when you have So many of us think our intuition's wrong. It's not wrong. It's just divine timing isn't right yet. Okay? I knew in my gut, in my soul, we were…
    about Divine timing · at
  • Soul level they are true. Whether for you it's you know rejections the universe's protection. The universe always has my back. I'm going to trust it. You know whether it's for…
    about universe · at
  • Think that about life. I used to think when I was younger, extremely insecure, that, girl in North London that was getting bullied for her looks, I would look at Oprah and I would look at other people amazing and I would just dismiss them.
    about North London · at
  • Okay, there's a whole chapter in worthy called you're not crazy, you're just first. And every single one of us right now, every person watching, every person listening, like…
    about You're not crazy, you're just first · at
  • Authenticity alone doesn't automatically guarantee success. But what I do know is in inauthenticity guarantees failure every time. Okay, everybody stop the professor classes…
    about Inauthenticity · at
  • I had practiced in my bathroom mirror right so many time if I had known the high five habit then I would have been way more confident but I was practicing in the bathroom…
    about High Five Habit · at
  • Most sure of what I'm telling you right now that we are supposed to be different there's supposed to be diversity of thought of behavior of background of culture of religion…
    about diversity of thought · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Paulo — Person · 2 mentions
  • Jamie K Le — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Ladies and gentlemen, rock this house AND WELCOME TO THE STAGE, JAMIE K Le. [screaming] Karn Lemur.
  • Karn Lemur — Person · 1 mention · first at
    AND WELCOME TO THE STAGE, JAMIE K Le. [screaming] Karn Lemur.

Companies & orgs

Products & tech

Concepts & topics

Places & events

Full transcript with timestamps

four Rs of rejections. So there's a whole chapter called when you change your relationship with rejection, you change your life. And you know, as human beings, let me just set this up right now because a lot of us don't know why fully we're stuck or why we're not going for the things or why we are staying in a relationship when we feel in our soul we deserve better. But maybe we're afraid to be alone or we're afraid to put ourselves out there. There's so many ways that fear of rejection and failure hold us back. and talk ourselves out of our own truth and all the things. Uh so just to take a step back as human beings, we're wired to avoid pain at all costs, right? It's how we've survived.

And it's why for some of us uh when we when we associate pain with working out, even though we know the pleasure of, you know, feeling great and, you know, hitting our fitness goals and all that, we will choose to avoid the pain. over going for the pleasure most every time. And with rejection and failure, when we fear them, we often fear them for very painful reasons. We associate pain with them. So much so that it keeps us stuck.

So many of us not only fear rejection and failure. We've had so many of them happen in our lives that we literally let it take root at an identity level and we start to believe we're a failure. Mhm.

We start to label ourselves with things like rejected, right? Failure, not enough, don't fit in, unqualified, all the things. So, let me just start. We're going to go through the four Rs together, okay? Everyone listening, watching, let's do this together. You got to go all in with me and Lisa, though. Got to go all in. Uh, and and and be really honest with yourself because this will be eye opening, I think, for a lot of people when they go through this.

So, let me just start with a question, okay? Because the four Rs are uh uh to uh reveal, to redefine, to revisit, and to revel. But let me explain what that means and how it can literally change your life right now. The first thing is right now when you ask yourself this question. Think about a time in your life where you've been rejected or failed at something. What is the first thought you had? And be really honest with yourself. And you might need to kind of imagine yourself in a in a situation where where you've been rejected or you failed. What is the first thought without thinking about it?

This happens without us thinking about it, but what's the first thought you thought to yourself when that happens?

Um, okay. First thought, see, I told you you're stupid. Mhm. That would be your first thought.

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. For me, my first thought most of my life is, "Yep, I'm not enough. Yep. There's proof again. I'm not enough. And yours is, "Yep, I told you you're stupid."

Lisa, Bill, you. Okay. Whenever I've been in rooms and I've asked this question, the number of answers that people are so vulnerable and brave to share are so similar to yours and mine, like, "I should have never tried. I knew it. I don't have what it takes. I'm a loser. I'm, you know, stupid."

It's like the confirmation of the negative that you think of yourself. Exactly. Yeah. And so here's what happens. And for so many of us, you know, watching us right now, everyone who just thought of that thought, write it down. Write it down if you can. I don't want you to forget this, but that very first thought you had, some of us have multiple. We can have multiple. Write them down. Right? For me, it was almost always, yep, there's proof again. I'm not enough. Every time what your thought you just had right now is is your current definition of rejection or failure. Mhm.

That is your current definition. So we've just revealed verse R your current definition of rejection or failure. For most of us that definition is so painful that we want to avoid it at all costs. So because here's the thing in life everything is the meaning we assign to something right? And if you are assigning a meaning to rejection or failure that's painful, we're wired to avoid that at all costs, which is then why we feel stuck, why we're not going for things, why we're not taking things to the next level. We don't want to risk feeling like, oh yeah, I'm stupid. I'm not enough. I'm a loser. All all the pain that comes with rejection or or failing, right? So revealing your current definition is huge. And for every person who just had a thought of their current definition that's painful, it is most likely a big reason of why you're stuck or a big reason of why you haven't necessarily taken stuff to the next level or why

you're not sure why you're not back on the dating app or you're not going up to the person at the party or any of those things. If our definition stays painful for our entire lives, it will prevent us from taking our life to the next level. Right? And we will end up looking back and going, "Wow, what has fear of rejection or failure already cost us in our life?" And for so many of us, the answer is way too much

even to pause this episode or to to do this at the end of the episode and really take some time and think what has this current definition of rejection and failure already cost me

in my life? And you can even do it by categories in my life. In my relationships,

in my friendships, in my hopes and dreams, in my career ambitions, in my joy, in moments of being at the pool with everybody, moments with my children,

all of it, right? Moments of celebration. What does it cost me when I look in the mirror? A lot of us, we reject ourselves like and we're afraid of it. So the first thought everyone just wrote out that you just had for Lisa yours was

and see I told you that you're stupid. Yeah. See I told you that you're stupid. And for me my whole life it's been oh yeah there's proof I'm not enough. And so that's our current definition. We we have revealed our current definition. The first R. So the second R is to redefine the meaning we attach to rejection and failure when it happens in our life. how this happened for me. It was years and years of rejections. And one day I'd had a really painful rejection from QVC. I knew in my soul, this is the thing when you have So many of us think our intuition's wrong. It's not wrong. It's just divine timing isn't right yet. Okay? I knew in my gut, in my soul, we were supposed to be on QVC, which is a live television shopping channel broadcast to 100 million homes.

But every time I sent them our product, it was a no, right? Every time. and and eventually we built the biggest beauty brand in QVC's history. So, I was in the season of long rejections and I just got a real painful rejection from QVC. I was under my covers crying myself to sleep, all that. And I remember I just felt like, why do I keep feeling like I'm supposed to keep going every time I pray about it and get still. I feel like I'm supposed to keep going when everyone around me is rejecting me or telling me no or saying it's never going to work.

And uh one day, Lisa, I Googled all the people I admire most. People that have just crushed it in business, have built huge successes, thought leaders, people that have moved humanity forward, people that have been forces for good and love in this world. And I just started reading about all of them. Every single one of them has dealt with tons of rejections and failures. They're just the brave ones willing to keep going anyways. And that day I wrote out this new definition for rejection. I wrote rejection does not mean I'm not enough.

Rejection means this is a victory because I'm one of the brave ones who's willing to keep going for it. Right? I'm not one of the people sitting on the sidelines, you know, uh uh not going for it, living my life in regret. I'm going to decide right now that every time a rejection happens, every time I fail again at something, this is huge. This is a victory. This means this is a reminder. I'm one of the brave ones willing to go for it. And I literally believe that, right? And I wrote out that definition. Another one that I wrote out was rejections God's protection. Oprah loves rejections redirection, right? We all have these meanings that we write out, but they have to be true in your soul.

And so the second R, which is redefine, is so important. And and you can use, you know, some of the ones I've shared. You can, you know, you can write your own new definition, but it has to feel true in your soul. It could be like, you know, rejection means I'm putting in the reps and I'm one step closer to getting what I want. You know, I'm putting in the reps. Like, whatever resonates with you. But step two, the second R is to write out a new definition of rejection that you are going to every time you face rejection or failure. And you're tempted to play that old soundtrack, you intercept it, you replace it with your new definition, you know, to be true.

And I assume that that new d that new one also has to propel you forward. Yeah. Yeah. And what it does, Lisa, it make it builds resiliency. You start to fear rejection and failure less because you're not attaching pain with it anymore, right? And so for me, I started doing that every time. And and in this season, in this long stretch, I don't know that I could have ever had the outcome I had with my business had I not learn how to do this. But this applies to our personal lives. It applies to every area of our dating lives, right?

Every our friendships that we're trying to build. Because most all of us deal with rejection every day in different ways. Failure every day. Just most people aren't posting it on social media. So, we scroll and we think everything's great and we're the only ones, right? Not true. But when we learn how to literally embrace it and not fear it, it changes everything. And so, your second one, and you can do this right now, is to write out a new definition. And I love writing more than one,

keeping them in my toolbox. Um, you know, another example, I I was adopted and placed into adoption the day I was born. And growing up, I had the best parents ever. and they worked a lot. The parents who adopted me worked all the time. And when I found out by surprise I was adopted in my 20s, I went through this season of my life where I just felt like I was abandoned. I felt like I was abandoned. I felt like my parents were never there growing like this whole thing. And I felt rejected,

you know, and I redefined my definition of what had happened to me. And in that case, I was like, "Oh, I wasn't rejected. I was chosen." Like I was chosen by my birth mom to come into this world. Her her her life would have been way easier had she not done that. I was chosen by God to be conceived. My birth parents were together one time ever and never again. And I was chosen by my adopted parents to raise me. I'm not rejected. I'm chosen. Right? So that's another example. And it changed my life when I decided that's my story.

That's the meaning I'm attaching to things. When we do this, it is a powerful tool. Uh, and so, you know, take some time and write out what are some new true definitions I'm going to attach to rejection and failure every time it happens in my life. And when you do this, it literally helps you just become more fearless going after things. Helps you embrace rejection and failure more. Become so much more resilient. The third R is called revisit. And this is about the power of revisiting past def past rejections and failures in your life and then redefining the meaning you give to them.

For so many of us, we have been hurt. We've been rejected. We've had things not go our way. We feel like we've had so many failures and setbacks. And a lot of times we've given a meaning to them that can take root at our identity and really impact our selfworth, right? And and and we've been carrying that meaning for so long. Labels like this are not permanent. They are like post-it notes with a light adhesive and we can remove them even though for a lot of us we've been carrying the weight of these like heavy armor for some of us for decades.

So revisit the third R is the most powerful. And when you go back to potentially a rejection from someone who broke your heart or someone in your family who did not know how to love you the way you needed to be loved. It could be a number of things. And your identity would be tied to that as I'm someone that's not lovable.

Okay. Yeah. I'm someone that's not lovable. I'm someone that, you know, I'm in my case of being adopted or having my parents over there, I not just I'm rejected, but I'm a reject.

For a lot of us, um, you know, we feel like our past mistakes don't just mean that we did something bad, we think it means we're bad.

So, these things can take real root when we really look at the story we're telling ourselves about it, and they can really affect our selfworth. Um and so when we revisit past rejections and just first just become aware what is the meaning I'm giving to this what is the definition and the meaning I'm attaching to that and rewriting that meaning rewriting that meaning and this is really powerful and then every time that memory comes to you just like anything else you catch it and you replace it with like for me every time I'm tempted to be like I'm I'm abandoned I'm rejected I'm a reject.

I don't belong. I'm unwanted. I instantly replace that. Oh, uh-uh. I'm chosen. I am chosen. I am here on purpose, with purpose, for a purpose. Like, I replace it right away. And this is real powerful stuff because it takes root at our identity. It's not just about, oh, let me think positive. Uh-uh. This is deep stuff of how we define who we are that affects every single one of us. And so, so when we revisit and redefine our new definition, it can be so so so powerful. And uh and one of my favorite ways to do this, my favorite definitions to use for the third R.

[snorts] And this is, I think, so good for anyone who's had someone pull the rug out from underneath them, break their heart, not value you. You know, it could be it could be deep stuff. It could also just be you wanted that job so bad you applied for it over and over and over and you they didn't they didn't hire you. It could be a lot of things. This is my favorite definition when I redefine stuff in the past. I literally, Lisa, I imagine God saying to me, "Oh, you weren't rejected. I hid your value from them because they're not assigned to your destiny."

And I choose to believe it. And and over time we learned these things are true. Like how many times has like the dude broken your heart and everyone was like he is no good for you but you're like I love him and you want it to work so bad and he just doesn't see your value. Now 10 years later you're like thank God I did not end up with him. Thank God I did not end up with him. Right. God hid my value from him because he is not a sign of my destiny. And Lisa, to this day, even, you know, if we have friends and for some reason I'm not invited or or or there's someone I just adore them and I don't know why, but no matter what I do, they're just not into me.

They're just like they just don't want to be friends. And the old me would say, "Oh, I'm not enough." Now I'm like, "Oh, God's blocking my value from them because they're not a sign of my destiny."

And it prevents me from letting this take root at a worth or identity level. I believe this definition. I believe this. And over time, sometimes we don't see it right away, but over time, these new definitions, they prove to be true because you knew in your soul they were true when you wrote them,

right? When you know in your and that's why when you write out your new definitions, you got to know in your soul level they are true. Whether for you it's you know um rejections the universe's protection. The universe always has my back. I'm going to trust it. You know uh whether it's for me, oh God hid my value from them because they're not a sign of my destiny over time. Like I know that is true in my soul. And so over time they it always proves right. Rejection is God's protection in the case of the investor whatever they are. And what this does is it completely flips that fear of rejection and failure on its head. It instantly helps us get unstuck, right?

It instantly just inspires us to go for things because we know what's the worst that can happen that I'm reminded I'm one of the brave ones willing to go for it. You know what I mean? And then the fourth R is to revel in the fact that you become real fearless about rejection and failure and that you no longer believe you're like in my case a reject or a failure. And this is such a powerful tool because it impacts our self-worth. And you open this interview with something I have never shared in my life about working as a waitress in a strip club. And I was also waitressing at Denny's at the same time. And I had another job I got shortly after slicing meat in the deli. And I was just hustling, trying to make it, trying to, you know, pay my way through school, all the things. But at the time, I knew in my my gut I had these big dreams and these big like and I I just felt I just felt like um

I'm here on this earth to serve and to impact and to to give and and and to create. But I was in this moment in my life where I didn't believe I was worthy of those things. And all of these tools, had I not learned them, I would have never stepped on the trains when the doors opened. And I'm just like to be here, I'm gonna get emotional if I talk about this, but honestly, like to be here with you talking about these things, to know that 80% of girls and women don't believe they're enough right now as we're talking. Like 73% of men feel inadequate. Like this affects every area of our lives.

[snorts] And I feel like I know in my soul when we learn to believe we are enough and worthy exactly as we are is the moment every single thing in our entire life changes. It's the moment we step on the train

and and and it's the train to our destiny. But so many people they want to step and they don't and they doubt themselves out of their own destiny. So literally the time for change has come. family civilian, no girl, no woman, no person left behind and knowing they are worthy. That was so freaking amazing the way you broke that down. And as you were doing it, I was like, this is like the medicine and the recipe, right? If you want to be a chef, you need to know what ingredients do what to something. And then you can try, you can dabble, you can follow someone else's instructions, you can create your own. But we don't think that about life. I used to think when I was younger, extremely insecure, that, you know, girl in North London that was getting bullied for her looks, I would look at Oprah and I would look at other people amazing and I would just dismiss them.

I would dismiss them because I was like, well, they're born special, so I I can never do that. And it it was um a great soothing mechanism in real time to make me feel better about myself, to dismiss other people that were amazing. And then that way I didn't have to challenge or look at myself. And having gone through my own evolution and meeting you, it's insane how wrong that was.

And I will let you speak for yourself, but I don't think I'm anything special. I just think I'm resilient enough to keep on going when I get dinged, when I get punched in the face metaphorically. And so the way that you just broke that down hopefully are the ingredients that someone can now take, make their own dish, but actually start to live that life that they want, right? That they don't allow rejection as the thing that holds them back that they don't dismiss themselves of what they're freaking capable of by looking at some maybe somebody like you and going, "Well, I can't be as good as Jamie K Lima." And that's why I wanted to start the interview exactly how I started it because I think that it is a beautiful way to see what is possible. And the fact that in this whole interview you've broken down how that was possible is now honestly the biggest gift I think you can give people and to your point you

know this is why I show up as well is that if we can allow people like I'm still learning I still learn from you. I still learned from the book like I always want to keep growing. And if we can help people have that mentality that it doesn't mean that you're a failure, that it doesn't mean that you're worthless, that it doesn't mean fill in the blank. Now, can you imagine what's possible? Okay, I cannot sit here as your friend and hear you say you do not think you are special. Let me just say something. Okay, there's a whole chapter in worthy called you're not crazy, you're just first. And every single one of us right now, every person watching, every person listening, like there is not whether you listening, watching right now believe that you are made in God's image the way I do, whether you believe in the universe, whatever you believe, this is undeniably true that there is not another person in

this entire universe quite like you, right? Every person watching us right now, there is no one else in existence with your unique fing fingerprints, with the unique iris in your eyes. Every single one of us has a unique tongue print. You actually have a unique heartbeat.

There is no one else in existence that has the same emotions. You have the same feelings, the same thoughts, the same experiences. You are so undeniably special. You can't even argue it. No matter what you believe, you cannot argue it. And here's here's the thing that that I would love to leave everyone with. When you are brave enough to show up in this world as who you are, all of who you are, by definition, you're first. There's never been another you before. They will there will never be another you again. And when you show up as who you authentically are, you're first. So, don't be surprised if not everyone gets it and not everyone gets you. Don't be surprised if you don't feel like you belong. Sometimes, don't be surprised if you feel like there's things that are odd or quirky or different or unique or wrong with you. It's because you're first. And there are a lot of people that will not show up as who they

authentically are. But when you show up and say what you mean and and and and be who you are, you are first. There's never been another you in the whole universe. And when I realized this in my life, because so much of my life, I felt like I didn't fit in or I didn't belong. And I had this huge moment where I realized, oh, and my family, I'd have these big dreams and they used to call me words like crazy or this or that. And I realized I'm not crazy. I'm just first. And for every person watching us right now,

when you are brave enough to be who you truly are, you are undeniably special. And also, you're first. You're not crazy. You're just first, right? And and and and the first ever you. And the things we think so often are what's quirky or wrong with us are actually the greatest things right with us. They're the greatest things right with us, right? And when we learn to embrace that we're first, it can change everything because it's that tool, right? That this idea you're not crazy, you're just first. this tool that just gives you this power to show up more as who you authentically are in every moment. And every time you do that, you tell yourself you are worthy of doing it. And that is how you rise your self worth one step at a time.

You have nothing but closed doors in front of you. Yes. And a ton of product and no money.

Yes. What is the turning point? Yes. Why did you not give up? Yeah. So, two big things happened. The first uh was in the form of a crazy painful rejection. So I thought Mel um so we got a call from a big potential investor and very famous for launching all these sort of unknown brands and making them big products we all buy in grocery stores and you know and I thought and they gotten a hold of our product and I thought like oh if they invest and a I'm not going to go bankrupt b like they we can leverage their their their clout to get in these stores that keep telling me no. like I had this whole scenario planned out that was like this pretty woman moment, right, where I was like, "Oh, he's going to save the day." And so we started taking meeting after meeting uh and and we it got down to the final meeting with this huge investment firm and uh it was in person. My husband and I actually flew to the meeting and the head guy was

about 3 feet from me. Yeah. And his whole team was there who was awesome. I just presented our whole future product pipeline. And he says, you know, you should be so proud of this product you're created. It's really, really good. Uh, but it's a no. We're going to pass on investing in It Cosmetics. And I was like,

okay, can you tell me why? Because I'm so used to hearing no. And I was like, okay. Even though really I was devastated but

Well, yeah. Cuz they just led you on and you just went through it and this was supposed to be the meeting where they're like, "Let's do this." And I was so hopeful and I was so desperate. And um he says he got very quiet and he says to me,

"Do you want to know, you know, do I said I said, "Can you tell me why?" And he says to me, "Do you want me to be uh really honest with you?" And I said, "Yes, please." And he got really quiet. And he's like 3 feet from me in person. And he says, "I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight." And when he said that to me, and this is why it was such a big moment for me when he said that to me, first of all, a lifetime of body doubt and self-doubt. Like I remember it flooding my body all at once. And when I looked at him, I actually felt no anger toward him. I felt like I was almost like staring my own fear um straight in the eye. But when he said those words to me, Mel, and this is what this is when we talk about purpose and intuition. He said, "I just don't think women will buy makeup for someone who looks like you with your body and your weight." The second he

said that, I felt this feeling in my gut. Like I can remember it like it was yesterday. This like strong feeling that said he's wrong. Like I felt it, right? And I didn't know how I was going to prove it, but I felt that feeling. And what I realized later when I look back at that moment, this guy, this dude gave me a no, but God gave me a knowing in that moment. In that moment. And I believe every one of us has had someone tell us we're not the right fit or no or you don't have what it takes. Sometimes we're the ones telling ourselves that

I don't love you anymore. Yes. Yes. Right. But if if you get still and you learn to hear your knowing, I believe which one you listen to, if you listen to the no, all the nos, all the rejections, all the self-doubt, or you get still and listen to your knowing, whether that's from your own intuition, from your creator, from the universe, whatever speaks to you. But we all have it. We all have it. And I believe our our our our life and our purpose and and our entire destiny comes down to which one we listen to. Do you listen to the no or do you listen to the knowing?

Okay. I promised a master class. That right there is worth a billion dollars in life. Are you going to listen to the no or are you going to listen to the knowing inside of you? That's it.

Yeah. As somebody who loves you and as your friend, when you shared that story with me and hearing you tell it again right now, I literally go, I'mma kill that [ __ ] I I go I have that my knowing goes, "Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. You think? Okay. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. Let me let me show you. Like it's that like I get that sort of mojo thing going when somebody says no like that at a moment like that. It's like I'll show you.

Yeah. And I guess I just got in this moment sort of this wakeup call that my knowing often feels like I'll show you.

Yeah. You missed out. You'll be sorry. What does yours sound like? And it's almost always true. That's almost always true, right? [snorts]

What does yours sound like? So is yours like or is it more of like I mean in that case I was devastated and at the same time had this strong it's it was just a piece honestly in that moment it was a piece he's wrong and that didn't make sense in my head. Why? Because I had had three years of hundreds of rejections. And this is the thing right Jay-Z says the genius thing we did was we didn't give up. That's like one of my favorite quotes of his. In that moment, everything told me to give up, Mel. I mean, it was hundreds of rejections. And now it felt what felt like my last hope of desperation told me something totally different. No, because not only do I not believe in anything you're doing necessarily, but I actually just think you're personally not the right fit. Like women just won't buy makeup from. It was just like, oh my gosh, it was like all of these nos everywhere. And and and I want to share

that because, you know, it's easy for someone to go, "Oh, wow. She built a billion dollar company. She must have just got lucky or maybe she just had so many connections or we always think but but really what it comes down to sometimes in this case, that big moment for me, do you listen to the nose or you listen to the knowing?" Right? And and and I made that decision that day to trust the knowing, to trust myself. I kept feeling like I was supposed to keep going. I didn't know how. Right. And what do you do when you don't even know the next step?

So you got this kind of, you know, jerk who's like, "Yeah, they're not going to buy it because of your body type and this, that, and the other thing." You're like, "Yeah, you're wrong, motherfucker." But what do you do next?

And and so the next right step, the next thing that feels right when you can't even see how that happens,

how do you even determine what the next right step is? Yeah, you just get, for me, I just get still. I pray. I pray. You know that. I pray uh and I just But whether for you, you know, listening it's prayer or it's the universe or or your intuition when you get still all you can do is try to listen right and and try to live that answer whatever it is and take that next right step. And I just felt I just had this knowing I was supposed to keep going and even when it didn't make sense and and you know I remember crying myself to sleep. I remember writing in my journal um know your why then fly girl fly

and I read those words every day till I didn't need the reminder. Um I would Google stories of people that had gone through thousands of rejections who no one would know that they went through them because they're so successful today or you know and I just kept trying to sort of build this toolbox of things I could lean on. Um, but I

And how did how did QVC come about? Because you built It Cosmetics and it became because of you the most successful beauty brand on all of QVC. You did over a thousand appearances.

Yeah. So, how did you even get on to QVC? Because that in and of itself is no small feat.

Yeah. Well, you know, their their head guy of of beauty, who's like a legend, had said no to me many times. No, you're not the right fit. Uh, and I happened to be at this this big beauty expo.

And was this before or after this guy was like, "No, we're not investing." After. So, she has now gotten three years of nose.

They're almost out of money. Her intuition is knowing that she's going to fly, girl, fly. So, she is still showing up to a beauty expo where I want you to understand in the business world, it's like going to a convention where everybody that you have ever fooled around with who has then broken up with you is attending. So, everybody that has said no to her, you know, she walks in and it's like, "Oh, here's this chick again. The it chick, right? the IT Cosmetics person that has been sending me the stuff and calling me and we have told her no, do not make eye contact. So, you are now at this thing.

This describes it exactly you fooled around with who broke up with you and they're like, "Oh, don't make eye contact."

Oh god, this chick again with the with the skin with the Okay. Yeah. So, you're at this thing. You've been told no by the big big big big big person. It's been three years. We're talking like 2011 2012ish.

What do you do? So I uh so you you get this three-foot table, right? It's a huge convention. There's 6,000 women at this convention. Wow.

They're walking up and down and it's every beauty brand in the world. Are they buying it for their stores or

No. So what it is it's it was this big um cosmetic executive women award show and why you're there is you are you get a three-foot table. You're demonstrating your product. You're hoping that someone who walks by either wants to carry your product in their stores or all the press is there. they cover your product or there's also you can win some big award. So I'm there and and then all the brands you can imagine, right, are there and there's 6,000 women walking and when I got there I saw QVC had this huge booth in the background and you're not allowed to leave your table, right? And I couldn't afford to get kicked out. Um but I just kept having this feeling like, okay, I've called them a million times. They've told me no forever, but I've never like met anyone in person, right? So, I kept trying to sneak away from my table and every time I got over there, the buyers would would be mobbed

with people. I eventually got over there, made my way to one of the buyers, introduced myself, poured my heart out, like was I remember sweat just dripping through my clothes cuz I was freaking out down to no money. Um, I'll cut a real long story short, but she gave me her card. Um, and uh, you know, it's like when someone says, "Oh, DM me on Instagram." You don't know if they mean they really mean it. Then you're on your Instagram checking your DMs and you're like, "Oh, they still haven't replied." And I thought, "Is that what it's going to be like?" But she actually meant it.

And I I flew out, had a meeting with her. We got a yes, my first big yes for one shot on QVC. And what it meant, Mel, was I was going to get this 10-minute segment live on the air, live in front of 100 million homes. And [snorts] I either had to sell enough product to hit their sales goal

um or not come back. We were only doing one to two orders a day on our website.

Okay. One to two orders a day, everybody. Yep. After Yep. almost four. Yeah. Three years of this.

Yeah. This is barely keeping the lights on. And so now you get this, you get your shot. Like there are those moments in life.

Yes. You're at bat. Yep. And you got to be ready for those. Yeah. And so put us right there with you. What happened?

Yeah. What happened was I was about to learn one of the greatest life lessons I've ever learned to this day. Um and here's what I mean by that. So I found out I get one shot. And uh then I learned it's consignment, which means they so first of all, I had to sell over 6,000 units of our concealer in this 10-minute window to hit their sales goal or not come back, which was about like 130,000 or $140,000 of product in a 10-minute window.

I also want to point out to everybody that's 10 years of sales on her website at the current

amount. So in 10 minutes everybody, yeah, she on live television Yeah. has to move 10 years [snorts] worth of volume she was selling on her website at that time

in one shot. In one shot. And she'd never done this before. I realized you were a television anchor, but this is a totally different thing.

Well, QVC it's I mean, you know, it's unlike stores where you can walk in and there's thousands of products in one space. They're one minute of air time can get one product. So, you're competing with the volume of like Apple iPhone or Dyson vacuum. You have to hit these highest sales goals.

Yeah. And what I quickly learned was the offer was consignment, which meant I wasn't guaranteed to be paid for it. I had to figure out um how to get a loan to cover the cost of manufacturing uh 6,000 units of product, shipping it in, going through legal, going through QC, going through all of it. And then I learned if I go on air and it doesn't sell, I have to take it all back. and therefore go out of business, right? So, you should never ever ever accept a purchase order. You can't afford to lose uh ever. But at this point, it was like, I think I'm I don't know what else to do. This is it. This is it.

And so, here's what happened. We went to 22 banks uh that all said no, and they probably should have. um the 23rd bank, which was California Bank and Trust, and gave us a loan that covered our very first um purchase order and a little bit more. So, I took the little bit more. We hired third party consultants. I'm like, I'm going all in. I want to do the best 10 minutes I could possibly do. I I want to I want to have no regrets. And they all told me the same thing,

which is which is if you want a chance at making it, here's what you need to do. you need to use this type of model to demonstrate your product, which is flawless skin, early 20s, all the same skin tone. And I'm like, okay, but that's inauthentic. That's not why I'm building this brand. I'm like, what if I put models in their 70s and then and someone with hyperpigmentation and someone with acne and and and what if I take my own makeup off on national TV and I could prove live how the product works? And they were mortified. And here's the thing, Mel, they wanted me to win. like they were giving me the best advice that they know how and

this had never been done. So we're is this 2011? This is 2010. Yeah. So 2010 everybody.

So this was not something people did. Like we're talking about the person who changed the industry

right here and this is the moment you're hearing it. And everybody that were the quote experts were saying no. And this goes back to one of the major takeaways that you were learning from our professor of purpose Jamie Kern Lima. And that is there's a huge difference between a no and a knowing.

Yeah. And if you're the only you that will ever exist, your knowing is the unique difference that you're going to make in this world. Yes.

And in this moment with one shot to go, everything on the line, a loan from one out of 23 banks that was willing, she said, "No way to the freaking experts." And she listened to her knowing. So when you walked into QVC with normal human beings, no flawless models, no one with perfect skin, all ages, all body types.

Yep. Yep. Did people say, "Wait, you can't take them on the air or was there any like Were people like, "Oh, she's g this is this is going to be terrible." Like, what was that like when you walked in? Did they even know you were going to take your makeup off?

Um, I let them Yeah, I let them know I wanted to. And QVC was great. You know that here's the thing about QVC is like they want everyone to be their authenticelves. It's just this has never been done this way before. Okay.

And I wish I could say it was easy for me to just go I'm just going to go with my knowing, but the truth is I flew out there a week early, Mel. I sat in a rental car in the parking lot, cried every day. I actually secondguessed myself. I'm like, if I do it, maybe I'll do it their way first, then I'll make money, then I'll do it my way. Uh, but I know that, you know, authenticity, you can't fake authenticity. And authenticity alone doesn't automatically guarantee success. But what I do know is in inauthenticity guarantees failure every time. Okay, everybody stop the professor classes and sessions. You hear that? that inauthenticity, being fake,

trying to do something everybody else's way because that's just you're too insecure to do it your way.

That never guarantees success. Yeah. Authenticity, your knowing, your special spin on things.

Yeah. That is the pathway to purpose and success. There is no other way. Yep. And so after a week of crying in your rental car in the parking lot at QVC,

you were like, I'm going with the knowing. I'm going with the knowing. And so tell us about that first appearance. You're standing there on a television set. There's a bazillion cameras. The lights are bright. You got your models there. You're taking the risk of your lifetime on live television in front of a hundred million homes. Yes. You were doing something that has never been done on television before.

Yeah. I remember literally I wore two pairs of Spanx Mel. Not because I cared how I looked, but like I was so freaked out like my hands were shaking and I was sweating through my clothes. So I on double Spanx under my dress. And I remember the moment the the camera went live, right? And there's a big countdown clock on the floor that started at at 10 minutes. And by the way, a minute or two before I went onto the set, I learned you're not guaranteed you're 10 minutes.

Why? If you are a minute or two into your cell and you're not hitting numbers, they know by the second your clock, you might think you have eight minutes still to go and your clock will jump to one or jump to two minutes left

cuz your product's a flop. Yep. Exactly. And you're a flop. So you literally are racing against the clock to be successful out of the gate. So what did you do to like hook everybody? Did you take your makeup off right away? Did you like what did you do?

So So I first of all I go out of the you know I go live. I remember it was like 9:59, 958, 9 and I'm like and I remember I had practiced in my bathroom mirror right so many time if I had known the high five habit then I would have been way more confident but I was practicing in the bathroom mirror this demonstration a million times on my wrist how our concealer doesn't crease and the best two selling concealers crease and I'd done this demonstration like this where I show it and they all start to crease. So I'm holding my wrist up trying to do this as we go live to show that but my but my hands like this now and it was never like shaking when I was doing an amazing

mean it wouldn't bend everybody like she was so anxietyridden that she's sweating through her two pairs of pang Spanx and her wrist will not bend so she cannot demonstrate that her product won't crease.

Yes. and the host grabbed my wrist and was like, "Thank you, sugar." And she took over. [gasps] And then I remember my bright red barefaced before shot coming up on national television. I remember walking over to our models, real women, all shapes, sizes, skin tones, skin challenges, calling them beautiful, meaning it. Uh I remember Do you Did you take So when did you take your makeup? When she grabbed your hand and said, "Thank you, sugar."

Yeah. Did that wake you up or were you like I I was like out of my body. I was Did you like just then take your makeup off?

Well, they did a whole bare face before shot of me for that show. I have I've taken it off live a million times since that first show. It was like Yeah. bareface before shot and then the after. Um, and I remember walking over to the I remember we were gosh six or seven minutes in. I didn't know how we were doing, but I knew we weren't cut yet. Um, and then it got down to like a minute left and the host said, "Uh, uh, the deep shade's almost gone. The tan shades almost sold out." out and I was like freaking out and I remember literally right at the 10-minute mark this giant um sold out sign came up across the screen and I start crying on national television.

Oh, I love you. They cut from me and went to like Dyson vacuum or something. Um, and I remember my husband came rushing through the double doors of the studio and I and and he's like has his arms up and I'm just sobbing and I'm like, "Real women have spoken and I'm just like crying and I thought he was going to give me a hug or be all excited and he just looked at me and he's like we're not going bankrupt and I was like and I just that one airing which was September of 2010 uh became five more that year, then 101 the next year, and then I did 250 live shows a year um myself direct live on on on QVC, year after year. So, we built the biggest beauty brand in QVC's history.

And the only reason that I share that is because it was years of no and you're not the right fit. And and and and what I love for for anyone listening who needs to hear this is no one can tell you you're not the right fit. No one. And you can get all the nos in the world, but you have your knowing. And and and and by the way, I believe this, Mel. I believe even when you trust your knowing and then it seems like it was wrong and things don't go your way over and over and over, like I look back at those moments, right? I really wanted that investor to invest in us. Thank God he didn't. When I say everything's happening for us, what I mean is like if he I was so desperate that if he would have invested in us then, I probably would have given him the majority of the company for probably almost no money, right? By the time many years, six years later, after that day, six years later, when um L'Oreal bought this little

company I started in my living room for $1.2 billion cash, it was still I was the largest shareholder. Paulo and I were largest shareholders. And I look back and it's like, oh gosh, thank God the the all the nos happened when they did, even when they sucked, even when it felt like it wasn't fair.

Um, and I can look at that in many scenarios. Sometimes we don't have some big positive outcome,

but we learn a purpose through a no. Right. Right. We learn a calling through a no. Um, we learn a lesson. We build strength. We build resiliency. We appreciate the beautiful moment so much more when we've gone through the tough ones.

So, have you ever seen that investor since? I have not seen him. Uh, the day that we

Of course, I asked the petty question. I'm like, have you ever like seen him to like twist the little knife in their

So, so, uh, I heard from him one time ever again, and it was six years later, the day that L'Oreal announced the deal. So, because they're a public company, they announced um you know that they had acquired at Cosmetics, maybe the first woman to hold a CEO title of a brand in their 107year history. They did the big press release. So, that's kind of surprising. 107 years L'Oreal, a makeup company. You're It's t It took them that long to have the first female CEO of a brand.

I hope they have many more now. That is my prayer. Yeah. Yeah. You were You were the trailblazer there, too. It's uh it's been yeah so many things. It's been a journey. And here's the thing, Mel. It was another woman inside L'Oreal. It was Carol Hamilton who was head of luxury for North America. She'd been there gosh 30 plus years. And she championed for me to keep my CEO title. All the things like it was another woman saying, "Oh, and and it's funny because I actually think she should have been the first woman." You know what I mean? And I think again, um there's an example, by the way, of of I believe I'm not going to speak for her. I believe she knows. This is my opinion. I think she probably knows she should be the first female CEO. But look how she used what she went through to then boom be of purpose and of service and help make sure that I kept my CEO title. Um, you know, everything we go

through. Um, but so so they announced it, right? So all of a sudden it was a homepage of Wall Street Journal, the press everywhere. [snorts] And that was the first time and only time since that I heard from that potential investor.

And what did he say? He said, "Congratulations on the L'Oreal deal. I was wrong is what he said and wished me the best of luck and uh uh

that's a big deal to admit you're wrong. It is. Um and uh and so when you speak about petty so I what I did say to him was thank you but what I wanted to say like

what did you want to say? So, in that moment, here's what I thought about. I thought about um do you remember the movie Pretty Woman where where like she goes in the store and they wouldn't help her and then she goes back? Remember when she goes back? Yes.

So, I wanted to say to him, big mistake. Huge. Huge. I could give you 1.2 billion reasons why. It was a huge mistake. Um but I didn't. I wouldn't have wanted to be him in that situation. you know, we probably would have been one of the most successful investments in his firm's history, you know, and so listen, it wasn't uh reject I always say rejection is God's protection so often.

And you talk about how rejection is protection. You said that and and you have a very personal story that's behind that, right?

Yes. I think this is so true. And I think that in particular for women, it's so important that we start embracing rejection. I think self-doubt kills more dreams than almost anything out there. And I think so many people probably listening to us like at this moment, so many people know they have a dream on their heart or they know they have something more to give or offer the world or create or an idea they want to launch or something they want to do, but they end up letting self-doubt take over um because they're scared of failure or of rejection. And you know my hope and prayer and a big part of why I wrote believe it is I hope to shift perspective around rejection. I hope even though it's painful even though it's not fun I think when we can really embrace it and not take it personal and see it as part of our journey because what I have learned and I I do believe to be true is rejection is God's

protection. Some people say rejection is the universe's protection. And you know, one I have so many stories of rejection in my book, but one um one that stands out in particular I think you you might be referencing is, you know, we were a couple years into building it cosmetics. We got down to under $1,000 in our bank account, which was my personal and business bank account. I didn't know how we were going to stay alive and in business, and I'd been just getting hundreds of rejections from all the stores. Well, we finally got this inbound phone call from a potential investor. Um, and I was so excited. I thought, "Oh my gosh." Because this was a big private equity company who had like invested in all these products you and I buy at the grocery store. They made them household names. And I thought, "Wow." And they loved our product at Cosmetics. So, I thought if they invest in us, A, I'm not going to

go bankrupt. um B, maybe they can use their leverage to try and get us yeses from all of these retailer stores that keep telling me no. So, I thought this was going to be life-changing and we started doing meetings with the potential investor and their whole teams and um and it got down to the final meeting and I thought like it was going to change my life. I was so excited and I'll never forget I flew in for this final meeting. My husband was there as well and the head guy was about three feet from me in person and his whole teams were there and they said to me, you know, congratulations, we love your product. Um, you should be so proud of everything you're doing with It Cosmetics. Uh, but it's a no. We're going to pass on investing in your company. And I was like, okay. And at that point, I'm so used to hearing no, right? This is like a couple years of hundreds of nos. So I said, 'Well, can

you tell me why? Like can you can you share with me why? Because feedback is a gift um usually. And uh he paused for a long time and he said, "Do you want me to be really honest with you?" And I'm like, "Yes, please." And he was standing about three feet from me and he says, "I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight." And I remember in that moment a couple things, right? I got first of all a lifetime of self-doubt and body doubt. Like I felt it flood my body all at once. So I I wasn't even mad at him. I I felt when he was saying these words to me, it almost felt like I was staring my own fears uh straight in the eye and just trying to keep my faith bigger than them. But I'll never forget there was this moment, Angie, where where when he said those words to me, I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight.

I got this feeling deep down in my gut, like a just a strong feeling of intuition that said he's wrong. Like he's wrong. And I felt it. And you know, listen, after that rejection, I went and cried. I cried in my car. All those things. But here's the thing is is so many times all of us no matter who who we are somebody looks us in the eye and in one way or another says to us you're not enough or you're not the right fit or change who you are you know to get my love or to fit in or to get in my stores or to get my investment whatever it is and those are the moments that we that change our lives because we have those decisions to make of do I trust my gut and stick with my authentic mission or continue showing up authentically as who I am or do I try to change who I am for someone else's approval. And so after that investor um uh said those those words that were really hurtful to me although I appreciate his honesty um

from his perspective uh six years later I hadn't heard from him six years later um when we were acquired by L'Oreal it was the largest acquisition in their history and because of that and L'Oreal is a public company um it was on the homepages everywhere so the Wall Street Journal homepage was like it cosmetics sold for $1.2 two billion dollars cash in this whole thing. Six years later when that happened, I heard from that investor. I heard from him and it was the first time in six years and he said, "Congratulations on the L'Oreal deal. I was wrong." Um, and two things I learned like had he invested it would have been the most successful investment in this firm's history. But also, uh, uh, rejection is God's protection, right?

Rejection is the universal protection. What's amazing is had he believed in me six years earlier, right? Instead of rejecting me, I had no money. I was so desperate at the time, I probably would have given him the majority of the company for almost no money, right? But because he didn't, he rejected me. He didn't believe in me. By the time we did sell the company, I was the largest shareholder. And so it was like rejection is protection even when it doesn't feel like it at the time.

Yeah. Can you tell us Jamie what was one of the greatest points of rejection and what did what did what did what happened internally that kept you going when so many people would have quit?

Yeah. Um I believe I when we change our relationship with rejection like we literally can change our whole lives. I

I have to stop you. I'm so sorry. I have to stop you. You have to say that again and I want to let that sink in. Then I want you to keep going. Just say say it one more time. I want our listeners to feel that this is like this is this is worth the whole whole time. Say it again please and then unpack it for us.

When we change our relationship with rejection, we change our entire lives. We change our teams. We change our business. We change um I believe we can never reach our true calling and our true potential and our true greatness unless we literally learn how to change our relationship with rejection. Um and uh and when we see it as something that comes with the territory of being a brave one, one willing to go after your calling, one willing to go after your potential, one willing to bet on yourself and and bet on uh the vision God's put in you, you're a brave one. And I think that um when you're going after anything great and anything brave, it comes with rejection. So, I've literally in my life and I still get rejected to this day. To this day, right? And like, it's so funny, but I it rolls right off me now, Craig. I It doesn't hurt me anymore. I see it as like, yeah, it's like a reminder. Oh, I just got rejected again.

Yep. I'm a brave one. I'm going after it. I am not going to get to heaven one day and be like, God, I lived as half as who you made me to be. God, I I I stepped into a quarter of my greatness. God, I know you put all these big things inside of me and I did some of them. Like, uh-uh. Like, I keep reminding myself I want to arrive there and be like, I like like have nothing left. Like, I gave it my all. And so, I've flipped my mindset into, okay, rejection, rejection, boom, boom. I don't hear it anymore as you're not enough, right? I used to always hear rejection as a almost like a reminder of something I wish I didn't believe, which is that I'm not enough.

And and that was a really big thing to get over in my life. And so, you know, part of launching uh the IT Cosmetics, right, long before it was this, you know, we we built a team of over a thousand employees, became the largest number one luxury makeup company in the country in the United States. All these things happen. A lot of people just know that part. But the real journey is a girl who literally I started believing I wasn't enough. And I I tried to enter this beauty industry to change the conversation and help everyone feel like oh wait you are enough

and let's try to shift the conversation around that. But the journey was filled with so many rejections. And you know to talk about I don't even know how I could pick one. There were [clears throat] so so many. And here's the thing is is so many of the people that that rejected me along the way were who I would consider experts, right? And sometimes it's so easy to put experts on this pedestal and be like, "Well, if they're telling me I don't have what it takes or they're saying I'm not going to succeed, like it's very hard not to let those words of rejection turn into self-doubt in our own heads." And so on my journey uh you know of of sending the product out to all these retailers and I really believed in it and um uh two quick rejections that stand out. One was um one was after hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of rejections from from every retailer out there. We we got a phone call from a potential investor who's a

big private equity company. Um and they gotten a hold of our product and loved the product and wanted to have a meeting. And I was so excited, Craig, because I thought, "Oh my gosh, they've taken so many of these unknown brands and made them into huge uh consumer product companies that we all shop for in grocery stores and know of." And I thought, "If they invest, then a I won't go bankrupt. And B, maybe they can use their leverage to get us into all of these retailers that that keep telling me no." Um, and so we did all the meetings, meeting after meeting after meeting. We entered the diligence phase, right, which is when they start looking into all of our financial projections, our future product pipeline. And it came down to the final meeting and my husband and I flew up for it. And um the head guy at the private equity company, he was really kind. His whole team was awesome. Um and at the end he says to

me, and by the way, this is now after a couple years and hundreds of rejections, right? So we're we're at that under $1,000 in our bank account, maybe going bankrupt at any moment situation. and he we're in person and he was about 3 feet from me and he says to me um you know congratulations you know we we really believe in your product it's a great product uh but it's a no we're going to pass on investing in IT Cosmetics and I was just like oh like devastated right and I was like okay but I was so used to hearing no at this point and I said well can you tell me why um because feedback is usually a gift um I said can you tell me why and he got really quiet and there was a long pause and He says, "Um, do you want me to be really honest with you?" And I'm like, "Yes, please." And he says, "I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight."

And I remember when he said those words, um, well, first of all, it was like a lifetime of body doubt. Self-doubt like flooded my whole body. and and and and I never actually felt any anger toward him or anything like that, but I remember one moment that I just want to call this out cuz I feel like these are the moments and we all have them. We've all had someone look at us and tell us we're not enough for whatever version of rejection we've faced. And sometimes it's someone in our family who loves us and just doesn't see our dream.

Sometimes it's a partner. Sometimes it's in business. But we've all had these moments. And and and and what I'll never forget, Craig, literally like it was yesterday, is when he was saying those words to my face. He says, "I just don't think women will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight." I got this feeling deep down in like the pit of my stomach um that said he's wrong. Like I felt it. I felt it um so strongly. And I still went out in my car and cried. I still all those things. And for many years, um, you know, when I would hear those words, you know how we hear the words sometimes that someone says to us that hurt, I would like imagine myself turning down the volume on them and and turning the volume up. And that feeling I had um, which I realized is a is is a knowing.

It's an intuition. It's a still small voice. It's God telling us, you know, oh, he's telling you no, but I'm giving you a knowing, right? It's that knowing we have inside. And I believe our life comes down to the moments when we trust our knowing

over the nose. Our knowing over what we can't see in front of us. What what what looks like, you know, is it going to happen or or or is it going to come to pass or is it you know what I mean? And and and

and by the way, six years later, six years later, um and I'm skipping over so many things, but six years later, uh when L'Oreal bought this little tiny company I started in my living room, uh for $1.2 billion cash, and it was their largest uh acquisition in the US, in the US history for them. Um they made me the first woman to hold a CEO title in their 100 plus year history of any brand. And it was a whole thing. So it was on the homepage of the Wall Street Journal the day that it happened. um online and and that's when I heard from that investor for the first time and uh he said congratulations. I hadn't heard from him in six years

and uh he said congratulations I was wrong. Um [clears throat] I'm so happy for you

and you're so much politer than I am because I would have said to him and I'll give you 1.2 billion reasons why you're wrong. That's just I don't I don't recommend that anyone else says that, but I just that's it's just like

I want to talk about when you said um I found comfort in knowledge that being underestimated can be a superpower. It sounds really great, right? Like we both have had experiences where we can now look back and say, "Oh, you just got to go. You got to push. just got to believe it. What do you tell again that mom that may be home folding the laundry or that guy that's, you know, just got a divorce and is feeling on a down and out? How what would you how would you tell them to believe it? Like even though someone's told you no or even though you're in that struggle,

like believe it, right? So I think I think the very first thing is knowing and believing that like every one of us has this person. I believe we're all born to be and I think most people never actually become that person. I think most people uh end up for a lot of reasons talking like staying in their comfort zone um almost letting it chip away at their soul because I think that's what happens when we stay in our comfort zone and also like talking themselves out of their own truth right and I think the very first thing in order to believe that people need to do is make the decision they want to

right that's the most important because a lot of people will never make the decision that they want to learn how to believe in themselves that they want to learn how to believe it's possible to step into all of who they're born to be. Um, and I think that, you know, there's a lot of um lessons I've learned that now I really like share as tips in the book on on how to do this because I think we're all on a journey. Um once we decide you're like yeah I I want to you know become the person I was born to be be step into all of who I am. Um then there's a lot a lot it's a journey a lot of things we need to do. So, you know, um, one story, one quick story and then some tips on what to do for that is, uh, on underestimated is, you know, for me, I feel like I've always been underestimated for whatever reason. And I think sometimes when we're kind to other people, we instantly are underestimated. I think sometime, you

know what I mean? And I think that, I mean, one moment, for example, and I think you can use people's underestimation as fuel. And I think sometimes it it it becomes 360 and it really works as grace in your own journey. Um, and some people might say, you know, a lot of people say, "Oh, well, things happen for a reason or the universe is always right or or God always knows what he's doing." And there's a lot of uh if you're someone that's always underestimated, I don't think it's an accident. I think that it's actually supposed to be part of who you are on your own journey and the things that you become strong enough to overcome and smart enough to overcome, right? And uh one example is, you know, this was before our launch on QVC where a few years into this company I'd started in my living room, thought it was going to be, you know, great. And meanwhile, we got down to under $1,000 in our bank account, which was our

personal and our business bank account. I don't know, Sean, if you've ever like I would go to the ATM if I needed 20 bucks and like I'd hit no receipt, right? I couldn't I couldn't stomach seeing the receipt and um

Yes. Right. And we finally got this call that I thought was life-changing from a potential investor private equity company and and they loved our product. Loved our product. And I was like, "Oh my gosh, Sean, this is going to be huge." because they this particular private equity company had created uh or I should say invested in and built a lot of the products we buy at the grocery store and they turned in a lot of like consumer products from unknown into big household names huge companies. I was like oh my gosh if they invest in us like a we we're not going to go bankrupt b what if they can use their leverage to get us into all these retail stores that are saying no. I was so excited. And so we started doing meetings with them and uh meeting after meeting. We started the diligence phase which is when we show them like all of our projections and the future products we want to launch and

all that stuff. And I remember the final meeting and I thought like this is going to be life-changing. My husband and I flew up to this meeting and we were standing like 3 ft from the head guy and um he said to me like you know we really love your product and and uh we want to thank you for everything but it's a no. we're gonna pass on investing in your company. And I said, and I was so used to hearing no at that point, right? So I was like, okay, okay. Um, but can you share why like you know, you know, and cuz feedback's usually a gift and

and he was literally like 3 ft from me and he says, "Do you want me to be honest with you?" And I said, "Yes, please." And then he he literally looked at me and he said, "I just don't think women are going to buy makeup from someone who looks like you, you know, with your body and your weight." And I remember as he was saying this to me, I remember like I felt my whole body flood with like a lifetime of body doubt and uh self-doubt. And it was so weird cuz I didn't get mad or even hurt that moment. I felt this crazy feeling of like my own fear staring back at me first of all as he was talking and I felt this deep feeling this deep knowing I should call it that he's wrong but I also knew if I was ever going to prove that I would a need to figure out how to believe it for myself right cuz that's that's literally half of it and I thanked him for his time for his honest advice and here's what happened in that

moment and by the way I think this is the defining thing for so many people out there dealing with rejections and how to handle them. Our human nature, our humanness wants to go to um a victim mentality, anger, all those things like, "Oh, f him." Like I like what a jerk. Like all those things, right? But it was like of all the things I did wrong, this is one of the things I did right where I was like, "Oh my gosh, it hit me." He was passing on investing in our company because of my weight. I was like, "Wow, he is as much of a byproduct of the beauty industry his whole life as I am."

Right? It's like, "Wow, he's making business decisions because in his whole life, he's just seen one type of beauty on TV or in magazines and he doesn't believe any other way will make him money." And I realized this this why is so deep. It's so powerful. Like not just, oh, let me create products that work. It's like, "And by the way, by the way, um, oh my gosh, I'll go off on this for an hour, but so many people, cuz I've seen so many people fail, right, in their businesses, and I feel like it's cuz they create their mission, their why, and it just sounds good." Like in this case, my why could have been like, "Oh, I want to solve my own skin problems, and I want to help other women and other people and other men and other people that the same." And that would be a great why, and it would sound really good, but it wouldn't have been deep enough to keep me going in all those hard years. And a lot of people have

these wise that sound great, like, "Oh, I want to pay for my kids school one day, or I want to buy a house." And like, those are great. And if you tell someone else that why, they'll think you're amazing. But literally, it's not deep enough to the core of pain inside of you that's going to keep you going during all the hard times that face most of us, right? So, like in that moment, he was comp obviously completely underestimating me. I also knew I'm also underestimating myself and I have to figure out not to. But I turned it into like fuel for that like deep why like the real why I needed to keep going. And here's the crazy thing about when we trust ourselves and we tr and we learn to hear ourselves and trust ourselves, which is like half of my book on how I figured out for me how to how to do that in a lot of cases and how other people can as well. But like when we believe and trust, whether it's in the universe,

whether it's in a power greater than ourselves, for me, faith's a big deal. I believe stuff's divinely orchestrated in my life. And so many times these huge painful rejections or setbacks or nos like suck in the time and they're devastating and they don't make sense and they're not fair. But like years later, right, we can look back on them and be like, "Oh my gosh, that was grace." Because had this dude said yes to me at that time, Sean, I was so desperate. I would have been like, "Take most of the company for like anything, just help us survive." And it's like instead, because of so many people rejected me, I couldn't even give my company away for a little bit of money for so many years. And then by the time fast forward many years and we did bring on some investors toward toward the end, but fast forward to 2016 um when L'Oreal bought our company, I was I was still the largest shareholder

and that changed my life, right? And had he said yes to me back then, like who knows what I'd end up owning. Um and and and and the day um so and by the way, we met with L'Oreal for 3 years. I was really hoping to partner with them cuz I was like, "Oh, they could take our vision and scale it globally really quickly and but they said no for 3 years and when it eventually was a yes,

uh they were able to announce the it was their largest acquisition in US history and it was this all cash deal and this big thing and I got an email from that guy from that investor the day of the deal cuz it went on the Wall Street Journal online homepage and all this stuff and he said um I congratulations on your deal. I was wrong." Um, and also I learned it would have been the most successful investment in his company's history had he said yes. Right. But he underestimated me.

You talk about your why running deep, right? And it sounds good, but I think you prove that when you

It wasn't just about you. I mean, when Oh, yes. Yes. you. He was saying no. Like not everyone looks like the person on the cover of a magazine or a beauty mag. Not everyone looks like that. So you and I would be bold enough to say that I believe that that's maybe 10% of the population. So you're you're you're excluding 90% of the population because of what you think beauty is, but not really going to the person that maybe they have beauty inside of them and this is what's going to bring them out. So, you know, I just really want to commend you on not just having something that sounded good, but it

it made you like help other people feel good. And you said something earlier about uh what you were born to be. And I know that this subject is it was very emotional in the book. And you know, as a person that never met their their biological father before, you know, you also transcended finding out a secret that would devastate most and you again had to believe it and believe in yourself and I think you know what I'm talking about. Can you just share just a little bit of that?

Thank you. Yeah. And you know, um, really fast, one thing you asked me earlier, I just realized I forgot to you said how for people in that moment when they're shaking and they're, "How do I get through this? What did you do? What was your mindset?" It's exactly what you just said, like I forgot to I forgot to answer you. So, just to share it really quick in case it's about you in that moment, um, when I'm shaking on live TV and I feel like everything's on the line. Exactly what you just said, Sean. I knew it can't be about me or I'm effed. I'm done. Because literally, if you want the real truth, I was wearing double Spanx at the time. I'm like, my dress feels tight. Is my Spanx absorbing all my sweat dripping down cuz I'm freaking out. That's what's going on in my head, right? And if I stay, there's that famous thing, if you stay in your head, you're dead, right? I knew this is not about me or I'm going to fail. And

it was like in that moment, that's when you dig deep and you call on your why. It's like, oh, this is like for every person out there watching who deserves to see a different who deserves to see me calling real people beautiful and meaning it. Like that's what it was about. And so in that moment, the only way I got through it and didn't fail was like I had to make it not about me. It had to be about something so much bigger than me. Um or I it was just too much pressure to handle. I think I couldn't have I couldn't have um you know I couldn't have made it through let alone uh connected in an authentic way where people are going to keep their channel on me not turn it off and consider buying the product right um and that's the thing is like and that's the other thing is your mission has to be so authentic because had I shown up with this why that was great but not like the deep core I don't think people would

have connected the same way and anyways yeah so um I go deep in the book on some personal stuff. I would say 95% of this book I've never shared are stories and lessons I've never shared before.

One question came from Tim Johnson um over on Instagram and he said, "All right, what has he had to unlearn during this process? I know you've learned so much. What's what's one thing you've had to unlearn during this process?" So, I've had to unlearn um that being independent and a lone wolf and I don't need to count on anyone else and I've got this.

Uh that that's a badge of honor. I've had to unlearn that. Um because I and I talk about some deeply personal stuff in the book. You know, it's not a it's not just a business book. It's it's not just a how do you go after your dreams book. It's also really a book about how do you overcome self-doubt?

Yeah. How do you go from not believing yourself to believing in yourself and not trusting yourself to trusting yourself? And one of the big lessons I learned in this book through a personal journey of uh infertility and of adoption and surrogacy and all kinds of stuff was that life isn't meant to do alone. And my whole life I've always kind of thought like, oh, I've got this. I I'm just gonna count on me. I don't need to ask anyone else for help. I being independent, this badge of honor. And and for anyone who's a lone wolf out there, this might resonate with them, too. But I had a huge realization um that I talk about in the book that uh for me um it wasn't a badge of being a lone wolf wasn't a a badge of honor that you know it was it was actually a deepseated fear that I'm not worthy of other people showing up for me.

Wow. And I had this big epiphany over that. And I had to unlearn this idea that I got this all alone and that I don't need to ask for help or that I'm not worthy of asking for other people to show up for me the way I show up for them.

Yeah. I needed to unlearn that. And it's something I still work on every every single day. Even in this book launch for Believe It, it was a challenge for me to go, you know what? let me ask for some of my friends to show up for me and support me in different ways. Uh and and let me figure out how to make sure I feel worthy of asking them to. It, you know, it's it's still something that I am unlearning and working on every single day. Um so I talk a lot about that journey in the book. But yeah,

and I so appreciate as as somewhat of a an introvert that is also probably lean's lone wolf. I so appreciated that uh in the story and and you you know again illustrated beautifully with a lot of transparency and some raw stories. But I also loved in the book how uh obviously some of those folks that have come alongside you that have been along with you and Paulo in this journey, how beautiful it was for them to share in the journey, but also how how wonderful it was for you to then be able to share the reward, the payoff, right? And and had you not been, you know, if if you'd stayed with that lone wolf approach, you know, it's it's interesting. We think I think as lone wolves it's easy to think well I'm not going to be a burden for somebody else but sometimes being a lone wolf is actually being more selfish right so you were able to be a huge blessing in so many of your team members lives um because you did open yourself

up that way and I it's great you're going to have guys you're going to have to read the book to know that whole story but it is so true I love it

I have two really fun rounds that I want to do before I close but one thing I want to say Ed that I think

uh uh is really unique to you and I know that you haven't always been this way and maybe it's part of your own growth, but I feel like you do something I rarely ever see done publicly and that's that you are not afraid to show vulnerability. You're not afraid to show sort of these beautiful what would normally look like contrasting things. And what I mean by that is you're this dude with muscles and then you're like narrating your two Pomeranians day, Daisy and Lily, right? You are, you know

you know, you're setting the stadium like on fire. People just just their lives are being so impacted and then you're also very introverted. You know what I mean? There's kind of this this contrast. You do it so well. I think even um with you know sharing real direct you know very direct confident statements or tools or tips but then you'll share how

you know you're not feeling so well and you know this is happening. It's sort of this this contrast of of of of showing all sides of you and I'm just

you know I'm just wondering how you got to that place because a lot of people are scared. They they show up not just on social media but in their day-to-day lives as part of who they are

but not as all of of who they are. How did you get to this place of showing up like and and with a confidence?

Yeah. As all of who you are? Great question. I'm um most people are pretty complex and I am. I mean there's a lot of simple things about me but I'm a pretty complicated person in that sense. like I I am really really intense and then I'm hopefully, you know, pretty kind person. I think that I do it because um I just got tired of trying to pretend I was perfect.

I just got tired of it. Like I uh I want people to have hope, not idolization. And so I want people to go, you know, hey, if this guy

Hold on, hold on. You want people to have hope, not idolization, right? How many people out there right now are just that's not their priority. That is huge, Ed. What you just said.

Thank you. It's Well, and the people that were my idols, once I met them, I was like, whoa, wait a minute here. Right. So, I uh I want people to go, hey, um this is a flawed, imperfect person, which we all are. And man, I'm watching this guy fight to really change who he is and get better and grow, and he's got obviously learned a lot of tools for doing it. In fact, the reason that I'm so into personal development, self-improvement self-confidence all these other things is for me to just become a baseline functioning person, I had to have these tools.

And then when I got to baseline, I'm like, well, wait a minute, maybe we could take this further and actually be, you know, happier and successful. So, I want to show that. I want to be able to not show. It's not even showing. It really isn't. It's just like here it is.

Yeah. I'm not consciously like I'm going to show. I I'm just like this is me. Like I'm a really intense dude. I love to compete, but I really love people. And also, I think over time, as we age, we change,

you know? I think, you know, the 25-year-old me probably would be totally unwilling. I don't know, maybe that's not true. I think a lot of people would tell you even then I was that way. But maybe I'm a little bit more unafraid to just say, "Hey, listen. I have fears and insecurities and I made this mistake with my son and you know I love God and I love my dad and you know I have fears and I think that hopefully by hearing those things you go well whoa man if he could do it I could do it. This is not some perfect person. He's got it all figured out. I will just say this. I've got some things figured out

and that's better than I used to be. And if I could give you what I know maybe I could save you a bunch of time bunch of mistakes I made. speed up your happiness and success through all the mistakes I've made. So, I also like love people like you and and this is where all this kind of comes together. I love really confident people who have a ton of humility and I don't love confident people who don't have humility and I'm not really interested in being around a bunch of humble people who have no self-confidence. Self-confident people who have humility are curious.

They want to learn. They want to grow. self-confident person without that, they're hard to be around. You know this. And they eventually probably make a mistake or burn out or whatever. And then our humble friends who we love so much, they're just hard to take through life with you if they have no self-confidence. It's like, come on, you can do it. Let's go. And so I love people who tread that nuance really well. You do that as well as anybody I've ever met before. Like there's this strength of a woman in there. Like there's this and I've watched you like defend me in different situations like like there's this really strong confident woman who knows who she is but so humble so much humility that she still has this other part of her that's you know I am I and also wants to learn wants to grow uh values other people

right the humility is I think sometimes just the value of other people and when you have all this self-confidence and no humility like are you the most important person

Yeah. you know so hopefully over time I've nuanced that pretty well. I think it's beautiful. I mean even even when you're doing animal voices um

on your I think it's beautiful because I think people at home are like oh I do that too. And I think it's just this beautiful kind of like showing all sides. And you know, I want to say it's it's obviously no accident millions and millions of people connect with you, your shows. Um, and you are one of the few people who does a really good job at showing both sides of things. You'll have somebody, you know, you talk about politics, you'll have somebody extremely left one day and the next day someone extremely right. You'll show both sides of everything, never even sharing where you're at. and and you you know I've I've always felt this and this has always kind of just been dumbfounding to me that that I feel like the quickest way to get dull in life is to only surround yourself with people that think the way you do.

Yes. Right. And so many people only surround themselves with people who think the way that they do.

Oh, that's the thing to do now, isn't it? You only be around people who share your political beliefs, your spiritual beliefs, your life beliefs. You know what's really the truth? And you know this, you ain't learning very much from them. You very rarely learn anything from anybody who completely agrees with you on everything.

Yeah. And even in your companies, you know this, when we're building the company, I want people who disagree with me. I want people who challenge me. I want people with a diverse background. I want people who come at it from a completely different perspective. Yeah.

And so I have lots, as you know, and so do you. And we laugh about some of our mutual friends that disagree with stuff with each other. My dad and I disagreed on a lot of stuff. One of the most interesting, fascinating things about my dad was we didn't agree on political things all the time. We certainly didn't agree on religious things all the time. Um, our outlook on all kinds of stuff was very different. To say that my dad and I are the same person in that regard isn't true. My favorite person, you know, that an adult person in my life is my dad. and me and him disagreed on lots of stuff and I learned lots of stuff and some of the things over time I do think more like him again, you know, but I don't want people around me all the time who agree with me and I don't want people all the time around me that just agree with everything I think. How boring. You're right. No, you're right.

No, you're right. Oh, we're both right. Isn't this crazy? And they're so this and they're so that. What a And it is so our culture now, isn't it? like you know it's so our culture and like and every facet is trying to put us in these camps like you're over there you're one of those you're one of those I'm one of these and you man that is absolutely not how this thing's supposed to work

absolutely 100% counter to how the world is supposed to work I promise you of all the things we talked about today I'm the most sure of what I'm telling you right now that we are supposed to be different there's supposed to be diversity of thought of behavior of background of culture of religion, of ethnicity, the diversity in our world is the strength of this world. And if there was ever a leader who rose up and said, "I'm embracing that, and I'm not even going to let you play your game where you're pitted against one another."

Yeah. Oh, man. Would we change the world? Ladies and gentlemen, rock this house AND WELCOME TO THE STAGE,

JAMIE K Le. [screaming] Karn Lemur. Every single one of us has had someone tell us we're not enough.

Questions about this episode

What is "When You Change Your Relationship with THIS You Will Change Your Life | Jamie Kern Lima" about?

The topic explores the transformative power of changing one's relationship with rejection and failure, emphasizing that overcoming the fear of these experiences can lead to personal growth and fulfillment. The methodology presented consists of the four Rs—reveal, redefine, revisit, and revel—which guide individuals to confront their fears and reshape their identities beyond negative labels…

What is mentioned in this Jamie Kern Lima episode?

16 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Intuition ("knowing"), universe, Four Rs of rejection, You're not crazy, you're just first, IT Cosmetics concealer, Paulo. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "When You Change Your Relationship with THIS You Will Change Your Life | Jamie Kern Lima"?

The episode runs 1 h 30 min; the transcript is about 17,517 words in 202 timestamped sections.

More from Jamie Kern Lima

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated December 18, 2025.