The Hidden FEAR Every CEO Has and How to Beat It | Lynn Smith

What this episode is about

The discussion highlights the pervasive challenges CEOs face, particularly the destructive inner voice known as the "brain bully," which manifests as self-doubt and poor communication. It emphasizes that overcoming this inner critic is crucial for effective leadership and clear expression, rather than relying on superficial techniques or hacks.

Key takeaways

• The brain bully undermines clarity; a clear message is often lost amidst internal criticism.
• Passion trumps prestige: fulfillment matters more than titles in ensuring personal happiness.
• Entrepreneurship is a gritty journey; resilience shines brighter than resumes when pivoting careers.
• Effective communication is the currency of success; words can either build bridges or erect barriers.
• Finding your passion isn't a luxury; it's essential for authentic connection and transformative impact.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Lynn Smith (Guest)

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Passion Struck, Lynn Smith
2. 5:00 – 10:00: Harvard
3. 10:00 – 15:00: Lynn Smith
4. 20:00 – 25:00: Lynn Smith, Just Keep Going
5. 25:00 – 30:00: Just Keep Going
6. 30:00 – 35:00: Just Keep Going, Harry Buddha Magar, Wendy Lawrence
7. 35:00 – 40:00: Source Books Kids
8. 40:00 – 45:00: Just Keep Going

Notable quotes from "The Hidden FEAR Every CEO Has and How to Beat It | Lynn Smith"

• I am absolutely thrilled today to welcome Lynn Smith to Passion Struck.

  about Lynn Smith · at 1:29

• Boy, the year is flying by. I'm not sure if you ever heard of her course at Harvard, but it's their most popular one. It's how to talk goodter in business and life. And I just love the.

  about Harvard · at 5:49

• And I don't mean it to be like polyiana or anything like that. Like the idea of just keep going is the only thing I know to lead to success. It's the only way I got to where I was as an anchor. It's the only way I survived the early days.

  about Just Keep Going · at 28:08

• Yeah. I've got two great illustrations of this. One comes from another astronaut. Her name is Wendy Lawrence. Wendy was the first Naval Academy graduate in space. And I met her…

  about Wendy Lawrence · at 31:03

• Looked into his son's eyes at the way he was living his life, and he said, I need to inspire others. And he became the first double amputee above the knee to climb Mount…

  about Harry Buddha Magar · at 32:00

• Here's what's very interesting that I did not expect. So, Source Books Kids is my publisher and they were my finally yes. And this is apparently because I' I've talked to other authors. Publishers do not want the author to select or meet.

  about Source Books Kids · at 38:44

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Lynn Smith — Person · Main guest · 4 mentions · first at 0:00
  Primary interview subject; discusses leaving a TV news career, coaching executives to become magnetic communicators, and her children's book about resilience and fear.
• Harry Buddha Magar — Person · Referenced example · 2 mentions · first at 31:50
  Referenced as an inspirational story of resilience (double amputee climbing Everest), reinforcing the episode’s perseverance theme.
• Wendy Lawrence — Person · Referenced example · 1 mention · first at 31:06
  Cited as an astronaut example illustrating perseverance ('don’t give up on dreams')—supports the guest’s 'Just Keep Going' message.

Books & papers

• Just Keep Going — Book · Primary recommendation · 11 mentions · first at 24:59
  Lynn Smith's children's book about resilience and overcoming fear, discussed as a tool for teaching children emotional management.

Companies & orgs

• Source Books Kids — Company · Business focus · 2 mentions · first at 38:46
  Publisher of Lynn Smith's children's book 'Just Keep Going'.
• CNN — Company · Referenced work · 2 mentions
  Mentioned as part of Lynn Smith's previous career as a news anchor.
  Who's had a high-profile career. You were today online correspondent, a news anchor, CNN headline news anchor. You've done all these things and so people might not feel like…
• Harvard — Company · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 5:53
  Mentioned in the context of a popular course on communication.

Products & tech

• Passion Struck — Product · Business focus · 3 mentions · first at 0:41
  The podcast hosted by John R. Miles, focusing on personal development and intentionality.
  Of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so…

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 I called it the brain bully because it was so pervasive. It's also known as the sabotur, the inner critic. It's that voice in your head that's saying to you, "You're not good enough. Nobody's going to like this. Everybody hates you. This is not landing." It is the root cause of poor communication. So the whole foundation of what I do is expose the disease of your ums, so repeating yourself, rambling. It's the brain bully. It's not what you're saying. It's not a power pose. It's not any quick hack. It is the voice in your head that's running the show and has the microphone and it's coming out of your mouth in a not clear or concise way.

0:41 Welcome to Passion Struck. Hi, I'm your host John R. Miles. And on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long- form interviews the rest of the week with guests ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators scientists military leaders, visionaries, and athletes. Now, let's go out there and become passionruck.

1:29 I am absolutely thrilled today to welcome Lynn Smith to Passion Struck. Hey Lynn, how are you today?

1:35 I'm great John. Thanks for having me. It's so good to see you again and we have a lot to talk about today.

1:41 Yes, let's dig in. So, I love to have people on the Passion Struck podcast for many reasons, but oftentimes I hear people say, "I can't relate to that person because they were a professional athlete and I can't see myself doing that or they're the CEO of Salesforce and how can I possibly relate to that?" Well, you're another person who's had a high-profile career. You were today online correspondent, a news anchor, CNN headline news anchor. You've done all these things and so people might not feel like they could relate to you, but I find you very relatable because we all have these moments in life when you realize it's time to pivot. Can you walk us through that for you? I think what you're talking about is when I decided to leave that 15-year career, that secure contract, that trajectory that many would say, why would you ever walk away from that type of career? But John, you know this in

2:41 digging into people's life stories on this podcast that if you're not fulfilled, if you're not passionate about what you do, it doesn't matter what your title is. It doesn't matter how big of a name that the company is. It doesn't matter what other people think of your career. it doesn't fill you up and you are left with this kind of looming doom feel that you cannot get rid of. And I felt that for many years in the TV news business. It had been changing dramatically for a long time. I'm a purist journalist and so I'm straight down the middle. Give it to me straight. Talk to both sides and I really struggled and I said, "If this is keeping me away from time with my children, they're nine and six now, but they were one and four at the time. if this is keeping me from mornings being able to carpool them, being able to do homework at night, if it's not filling me, I got to make a change. And so I

3:35 pivoted, which was terrifying, which no matter how many credentials that you have, there is no easy launch into an entrepreneurial journey. It is inherently difficult because the only way to survive entrepreneurship is grit, determination, acceptance of failure, acceptance of fear. And that's a lot of what we talk about in my programs and what I now help coach executives, entrepreneurs, subject matter experts through so that they can become magnetic communicators. And all of a sudden I have this new purpose and I was able to see transformations in people and they felt so good about themselves. And I was like this is it. This is what fulfillment feels like. This is what passion feels like. And I realized I found my home in my company and what I really wanted to do with my life. So, the podcast name is Passion Struck, and I often talk about creating a passion struck life. What does the word passion

4:31 struck mean to you? It's that fire in your belly. It's I get up at 4:30 in the morning and I'm excited to walk into my office with my cup of coffee and have those two hours before the house becomes chaotic with my kids. It's the sitting down and it's not work, it's purpose, it's results, it's excitement. So that fire, that feel, you can't manufacture it. You can't fake it. And if you don't have it, then continue to search for it. Look in places for where you can find it. Because once you do, that's when things start to fall into place. Relationships that aren't supposed to be there fall away and new ones come in. business deals that you didn't really imagine could be possible start arriving because you're doing something from an aligned place, from a place of real service, helping people.

5:23 My kids often say to me, they're just like, "What is it that you do, Mom?" And I I say I help people talk better. But I also say, you know, I help people. And that's one thing that I hope that we can instill in our children in this generation is find something that you love and that helps people that solves a problem. That's passion in my view.

5:45 Last year I interviewed Allison Woodbrooks. Might have been this year. Boy, the year is is flying by. I'm not sure if you ever heard of her course at Harvard, but it's their most popular one. It's how to talk goodter in business and life. And I I just love the name.

6:01 Great title, right? or speak like a CEO or communicate like a boss, right? Like all of these kitsy phrases, but it's true. Like our communication is our currency. It's how we get people to be moved by our our words. And if we can't communicate effectively and and articulate ourselves, then we it doesn't exist. The idea doesn't exist, the business deal doesn't exist. It's all communication. It's so key.

6:28 Absolutely. And that's why I love Donald Miller's story brand framework and and and really just how that story brand can be used or a story in general can be used whether you're in a business landscape or just if you're out with friends because it really enhances what what you're talking about and makes it real to them so they can see themselves in your story.

6:52 Yeah. So, one of the things I I wanted to explore about that role change for you is just the emotional landscape because I I've heard you say in other interviews that you didn't tie your identity to the role, which a lot of people do, but still that had to be emotionally taxing for you because anytime you walk away from something that feels comfortable,

7:17 there's got to be doubts and fears. Can you talk about that landscape and what you had to navigate to make this real for the audience?

7:25 Yes. And what you were referring to is that typically news anchors, they have a lot of their identity in that role that the being on TV it is their purpose. It it gives them all of the eyeballs on them and the validation that they've been looking for. And that wasn't the case for me. I really was loving the the storytelling piece of it, being able to serve the audience. And so when I left, I didn't necessarily feel like I missed being on television, but I missed that safety and security of knowing that because I had a contract, I knew a check would arrive at a certain day and I knew it would always cash. And the fear was, you know, I I still have a family and and you know, I contribute financially to the family. So, there's an immense fear of how am I going to do this? I was a news anchor. I read GlassS for a living. I didn't know how to start a business, open up an LLC, do a spreadsheet. Heck, I didn't even know

8:24 what like how to work Excel. Like, this was very simple things that I had no idea how to do. And it I explain that because it's proof that it's not necessarily the knowledge that gets you where you want to go. It's the grit. It's the determination. It's the adaptation. It's the ability to keep going even if you keep hearing no. I mean, how many times in our sales process and I know early on because I didn't know how to do sales. I heard early on like, oh yeah, we'll let you know. This sounds interesting. D, you know, I didn't just walk off the set and all of a sudden I had a robust business.

9:02 I constantly faced rejection, but I'd been used to it. I was in the news business that long. You know how many times I was told no or I wasn't good or I wasn't good enough or you know I had to be told to wear glasses once on television because they didn't think I looked old enough or smart enough. And when you compromise yourself in that way because I did I agreed to do it. When you compromise yourself in that way you really re-evaluate a lot of things of is this the person that I'm proud of? And so I I decided when I left the business that I was going to be authentically me for better or for worse. So when you see me on social media or you hear me on a podcast, like this is who I am. This is the the real me. And I think that people that are listening, I hope what you take away from that is there is only one you.

9:53 It's the only thing in life in which you have zero competition. So how are you showing up? How are you presenting yourself? I remember I interviewed Jamie Karn Lima a couple of years ago.

10:03 Oh yes, I love her. And she was telling me her story because she was an anchor for a while, smaller scale than you, but nevertheless, she was really bullied by her producer for her looks. And then when she had her opportunity to take this live new product on TV, initially QVC was saying, "You can't be the one who does this. you have to show models that look beautiful. And she instead of doing that went with her gut and said, "People want to buy this product because most people look just like me. They're not the supermodel." But I think it's so hard for us. And you use this term brain bully to describe that inner critic that could have surfaced for Jamie Kern Lima, but she decided to surpass it. Can you describe that brain bully and how it distorts our selfworth?

10:57 Well, first I called it the brain bully because it was so pervasive. It's also known as the sabotur, the inner critic. It's that voice in your head that's saying to you, you're not good enough. Nobody's going to like this. Everybody hates you. This is not landing. It is the root cause of poor communication. So the whole foundation of what I do is expose the disease of your ums so repeating yourself rambling. It's the brain bully. It's not what you're saying. It's not a power pose. It's not any quick hack. It is the voice in your head that's running the show and has the microphone and it's coming out of your mouth in a not clear or concise way. And so many times in my career I had something similar to a Jamie. It's you're wearing too much blush, not enough blush. After I had children, have you tried wearing a girdle because my belly stuck out? And then when I tried to lose weight, don't get any smaller.

11:57 It was a constant critique on my appearance. Very little feedback on my content, on my reporting, on my shows. Almost, I would say 99% was on my appearance. And so that inner critic was constantly eating away at me and I had to discover through a huge failure. I I bombed a keynote when I first left the business and I had to go through that lowest of the low moment to discover what I now teach, which is how to beat your brain bully because it is it's the root cause what held me back in my career. Even though you rattle off a lot of these great achievements, I was held back by my brain bully over and over and over again. And now when I'm working with leaders of billion-dollar companies, I am brought in to help them to have a a more magnetic presence and to articulate themselves in a clear way so that investors or employees or viewers are moved by them, not being like, "Wait, what did he or she mean?" And when I

13:02 expose to them that it's that inner critic, they're they're like, "Oh, well, I'm not afraid." And I'm like, "No, no, no." Because there's a there's an ego piece here, you know, executives tend to not want to admit to fear. It's, "Yeah, but what's really going on in your mind when you watch this clip and you're stumbling and you're saying a lot?" And he or she will say to me like, "Oh, well, I'm worried about not getting all the data in or saying the wrong thing and stock price goes down." I was like, "Fear, fear." or what if somebody doesn't like this fear. So, it just I constantly sort of bring it back to listen that voice is running the show.

13:37 Let me show you how to overcome it because it's really important that we don't silence it. We are biologically wired to have this inner critic. It is, you know, in prehistoric days was meant to protect us. But we're living in 2025. We've got Wi-Fi, you know, we're not living in a pile of leaves anymore. We are going out whether it's a stage or a media appearance or a wedding toast and we're still operating from our prehistoric code. So if we can overcome that brain bully the results are incredible. We have a lot of before and afters simply to show people that within a short amount of time once you beat that brain bully you can show up in this magnetic way where people are just drawn to you and people have to hear more of what you have to say.

14:25 Yeah. And to make this real for people, like I have a good friend, I've known him for 37, 38 years. This guy has a bronze star with Valor from his time as a Navy Seal. He was the chief astronaut. He has done all these heroic things. And yet sometimes when I see him being interviewed on TV, he himself has these moments where he stumbles, he repeats, he doesn't deliver with the punch that you do who are experienced at this. So, I just want to make it real for people. Even people who have done truly amazing things, who we would think wouldn't fear anything, still fear being in front of the camera, having to talk in front of people. So, it's something that I think impacts tons of people. For me, one of the ways I tried to get around it was to do improv because I I felt if you put yourself out there in situations like that, it's going to make it easier. But what I found even after doing that is

15:24 being on TV in those quick clips that you have to give because you have to Yeah. whatever you're going to say in like 20 to 30 seconds and and have it be very clear. It It's still really difficult to do and it's high pressure. So So I

15:41 especially live TV and and your brain bullies rampant like wait did that make sense? Oh, I just stumbled. Oh my gosh, this is going terribly. And then it starts to sort of meander and you're wandering and and this is why people bring me in and we'll watch that clip and I'll say, "What's going through your mind right there?" And they say to me, "Well, I stumbled and I I figured that I just ruined it." And what I find most fascinating is that, you know, I also put people on television and sometimes I'll get a phone call the second they get off the air and they call me and they're like, "Oh, that was terrible."

16:14 And I was like, "What are you talking about? I was watching. It was great." And so then we watch it together and they're like, "Oh, that wasn't as bad as I thought it was." And I'm like, "Cuz the brain bully was there feeding you a little bit here and there and they're like,"Oh, okay. Yeah." And they start to get it. And that talking in sound bites that you're referring to, that's a specific skill set. This is not something that we're educated on in school. We're taught very tactical things. We're taught how to execute in business, how to, you know, do spreadsheets, all of the things. We're not taught here's how you can effectively communicate your vision.

16:52 Here's how you should prepare for communication events. Here's how you can drill down your messaging so that people understand it and they're moved by it. And a lot of people still think this is a soft skill, but you just pointed out that impression that you had of the person you were talking about being on television that stays with you. Unfortunately, we don't forget that first impression of somebody. And when I started to dig into the research of this and and wanted to have some sort of statistic behind it to prove this, because I talk a lot about how you have 3 seconds to get someone to like you and 30 seconds to get someone to trust you.

17:32 So, within those first 30 seconds, let's say something really powerful. So, they're like, I need to know more of what this person is about. When I dug into the research of it, there's Princeton research that found onetenth of a second is how quickly our minds make a decision about somebody. So think about that. When you walk into a dinner party or when you got on a Zoom call or when somebody clicked on this podcast and started watching me, within onetenth of a second, they decided whatever they're going to decide about me. So what do I do when I show up in a podcast? The second that red light goes on, I'm thinking about my presence because I haven't even said anything yet and somebody's already decided about me.

18:14 I mean, think about that, John. I It It boggled my mind. I was not expecting to uncover that. And this is research from 2006.

18:21 We've been trying to experiment on Tik Tok on what holds people's engagement. And we've been doing a series of 8second long videos where we'll put a quote or something else and 8 seconds isn't even long enough to read the quote that's on the screen. And we're finding that in many cases people are dropping off in a second and a half. And so we're trying to figure out like what causes that engagement or disengagement because you're right, it's almost like in a split second they decide whether to to skim or to invest

18:58 and then once you invest it's then how do you keep them hooked? So there really is something here that plays powerfully in our mind

19:06 for better or for worse, right? I mean, social media, we could say, you know, we're all trying to crack that nut, but is that is that a good thing that we're so attention span deficit? You know, I I I think it's just the way we are right now and as business owners, we have to adapt to that when we're thinking about how we show up on social media.

19:28 Yeah. So, do you have any advice for listeners or viewers on if they're faced with this situation, if they're trying to put out content, what they should be thinking of?

19:38 This was advice. I'm not a social media expert, but this was advice I've heard many times. Again, it's that first visual hook. You'll notice a lot of people will like snap around their camera so that there's movement within that or they'll come and they'll sit down into the frame. It's that movement that for some reason psychologically the viewer needs to be able to like stay and pay attention. That's a visual hook before you even open your mouth. And I've started to do that sometimes. I don't do it all the time. I I try not to fall into the you should be doing this on social media. I just want to show up authentically and I want to be myself.

20:10 And for better or worse, I don't need all the likes and the comments. It's an unfulfilling journey to try and reach that million follower mark. So secondly on what you say it's are you within those first three seconds giving value. Have you ever thought about this? It's like what what have I never thought about? Or you know this is something that's going to blow your mind. It's those hooks and I talk about this in television. We have a construct of a sound bite and the hook is that first three second and I advise people it's that knee-jerk first thing that comes to mind and that's the first thing out of your mouth and then it's the meat the takeaway that you're giving somebody and then you button that thought up and land the plane and that's a sound bite. So it's hook meat and we call it the chill factor. you know, the chills going down the back of your neck. And so, if you begin to think of social media in that

21:04 way, just compact it a little bit. So, it's, you know, reaching that mark of whatever keeps and captivates your audience. That's where I think as long as you're pairing that with authenticity, you can start seeing people say to you, "I love your social media content. You're giving me so much value." I mean, I've had leaders of the biggest tech company on the planet just reach out to me and simply say, "I see what you're saying on LinkedIn, and it's everything I'm going through and suffering from." And then it was a seven-minute sales call. People show up already ready to invest in your services. And that's a really big thing that I think people miss. Sales is all about effective listening and communication. If you can't articulate the value of what it is that you you serve people with, people will not buy. But it's the last thing I find sales teams are being trained on.

21:59 And when did you hear about a communication training for your sales team? It's sales training. I I would argue it's the complete opposite.

22:06 I mean, not even that. when I was CIO in Fortune50 companies and you're trying to sell a new initiative that's going to cost200 million or in some cases over a billion dollars to the executive staff and the CEO and then the board. It's the whole communication strategy

22:25 and not only how you go about that presentation, but what you have to do ahead of time to start positioning with people so that by the time they hear it in that meeting where you're trying to get them to buy, they've already heard it four, five, six different times. So, it's and they've come around to it. Especially if they were someone who you knew was going to be one of your people who was going to push back against you even wanting to do it.

22:52 Yeah. Yes. And that's the key, right? Is how are you articulating the value so that they're like, "Oh, not only does this solve our problem, but this is the right choice because there's probably a lot of solutions to a problem out there and the one that cost a billion is probably really scary to invest in. So, you got to really understand what the value of it is." And I faced a a situation when I was at Dell where my predecessor sold a billion half dollar solution. I walked in 18 months later and came to the conclusion that even if we implemented this whole thing, it wasn't going to work. And then I I had it validated. But imagine having to go to a board that approved this after you've already had a $2 billion failed SAP implementation to tell them that we're going to have to do something different. I mean, these situations come up and it's all about how you communicate and how you get the

23:46 message across and how you appeal to the other person's humanity in many cases so they can see the other side and lean in because that's what you need them to do.

23:57 That's right. And connect with them. How do we connect to our audience? And so, especially if you're on a stage and you have 800 people out there that you're looking into the sea of all these eyeballs, how do you connect? It's your presence. It's how you put the energy that you're putting out into that room. And a lot of people think that's woo woo and all of these things. Walk into a room and start looking around and noticing the people that make you just kind of turn your head and be like, "Who is that? What kind of energy are they exuding?" Or you walk in, you see people sort of off to the side and they're like, you instantly have made a decision. That person's confident, that person's not.

24:38 You're absolutely right. Well, a little birdie told me that on this topic that we've just been covering, you might have an exciting book about it coming out next year. Is there anything you can share at this point?

24:52 Well, at this point, I have my new children's book that just came out. It just came out a few weeks ago,

24:57 which we're going to talk about here in a second. I'll just keep going. But it's all about children's fears because of what I noticed as a pattern with the adults that I coach. I mean, as I said, these are Fortune 500 CEOs or wildly successful executives. And I was like, but they're still paralyzed by these fears. And so, yes, at a certain point, no deadline set here or announced, but there's going to be a version of what we're trying to teach children now for grown-ups. So that when you are facing those fears, when that brain bully comes in, you have a proven method to beat it.

25:33 And once you beat it, you can become a magnetic communicator. But you cannot fix the symptoms, which are the ums, the sos, the rambling, until you treat the disease, which is the brain bully. So that will be out in the world at some point because it is more important than ever that we beat it because it is our currency in this AIdriven world. How we show up, our presence, and our communication is going to be our currency. It's going to be how we survive in a world of automation and our jobs being able to be done by robots.

26:06 That's one thing robots cannot replace. How you communicate and how you show up in your energy. It cannot replicate human energy and it's going to be super powerful in the future of leadership.

26:17 I couldn't agree more. Well, Lyn, let's talk about your new children's book, Just Keep Going. and we'll make sure we put everything about it in the show notes and on our Substack so people can go and and pick it up. But as you mentioned, it just came out at the end of September.

26:33 But I understand your journey has been similar to mine and people always ask me, you know, how do you get your book deals? Is it easy? Blah blah blah blah. And I'm like, the publishing business is is like the most difficult thing I have ever experienced. I have had at this point hundreds of rejections and I I too have a children's book coming out in February. But

26:58 congratulations for me. Yeah, thank you. Because I know what it took to get there.

27:03 For me, there seemed to be no publisher who wanted it. And so I kept waiting trying to come back to the next news feeds and hoping that the timing would change. And it just no one was biting. And I understand you kind of went through this process too. So much so that before this book came out, because I think there's a real misperception that people out there that might have a platform or I'm a former news anchor that you just publish a book and anyone wants it and you just call someone up and they're like, "Oh yeah, great idea.

27:34 Let's do it." This was a sixyear journey from idea to this right over my shoulder. Six years. The first four years were the idea to writing of the idea to pitching it to rejection after rejection after rejection. And I posted it on Instagram because I saved this letter that I got from my agent that had all the listings of all the rejections from every major publishing house. And I put it on social media so people understood. The only reason this book was made was because I just kept going. And I don't mean it to be like polyiana or anything like that. Like the idea of just keep going is the only thing I know to lead to success. It's the only way I got to where I was as an anchor. It's the only way I survived the early days of motherhood. It's the only way I have survived entrepreneurship and continue to survive entrepreneurship. I mean, John, I'm sure you've experienced these times where I wanted to burn my business

28:35 down earlier this week. And I said to my husband, who's also an entrepreneur, I was like, I want to burn my business to the ground. What do you think about that? And he's like, let's not do that. And I needed to remind myself like, just keep going. Keep going. And it was such an important lesson in my life that I thought, why did I have to wait until my 40s to learn this? Couldn't we learn it when we're four? And can't we learn this in the classroom and not the boardroom? That when we are faced with fear or rejection or failure, that we can take one more step or take a deep breath in a moment or jump up and down to get our blood flowing to get our mind straight to get back into that game day mentality of like just one foot in front of the other. That you will get to your destination if you put one foot in front of the other, if you just keep going.

29:29 And so every rejection I got, I of course felt uh right, you know that feeling like again like when is this going to happen? It was years and years and years of rejections.

29:44 And so when we finally got that yes, it was so much sweeter because of how hard it was to get there, but also I I remember saying to my agent, I said, "You know what? I was meant to go through this because it's what the book's all about. And I think everybody can have a version of that. Whether it's a book, it's a relationship, it's a job that you're holding out for, whatever it is in your life that's that version of that. Whenever you get that next no or you get the you're not a right fit or I'm not your person, all of those disappointing things in our lives, know that on the other side of that is the destination. And the journey is so much better once you get there having gone through it. And I I just could not now be more proud that this book is out, but could not be more grateful for what I had to go through to get to this point because I grew a lot. The message is so much better because of it. The story is

30:45 better. The illustrator is better because I waited for the right publishing house. Everything's better because I went through that. So, I hope that can be a source of inspiration for anyone that's listening that's feeling in that spot right now. The version of rejection, keep going, baby. I promise you it works.

31:03 Yeah. I mean, I've got two great illustrations of this. One comes from another astronaut. Her name is Wendy Lawrence. Wendy was the first Naval Academy graduate in space. And I met her because she was my physics teacher when it was announced she was becoming an astronaut. And her key message to kids is that so many people today give up on their dreams so quickly when they hit the first obstacle that comes their way. And typically it's school. They can't get through the science courses or the math courses. and she talks about herself going to MIT and facing a situation where she almost failed out and having to double down on her dream of of becoming an astronaut to do the work that allowed her to succeed. I think another good example is I interviewed a gentleman Harry Buddha Magar. He was a Girka soldier fighting in Afghanistan. stepped on an IED, thought his life was over. And then he looked into his son's eyes at the way he

32:02 was living his life, and he said, "I need to inspire others." And he became the first double amputee above the knee to climb Mount Everest. And he said the same thing

32:14 to me that you were talking about. And as he was going up the mountain, there were so many times that he wanted to quit. And he just kept telling himself, "You got to keep going. this is bigger than you. You're serving all these people who have disabilities around the world, trying to show them that anything is possible if you put your mind to it. So, I love the message, Len.

32:36 Thank you. For the people who can't see what's behind your shoulder, just keep going has a beautiful illustration of a mouse in between the words. What does that mouse character represent to you personally? So, the three words just keep going came from a text message that I got from a very close friend of mine when I was going through an incredibly hard time in my life in my early 30s. And she just texted me just keep going. And it wasn't you're going to be okay. It wasn't you're fine. None of those things help. That really helped. And we wanted it to be a mouse because it's like that little mighty mouse. It's like the little one that could. And it represents there's a mouse in all of us. There are times in our lives where we just need that reminder from a friend. And then in the book, those friends are in the form of a deer and a bird and an owl and a butterfly. And they encounter mouse

33:34 along his journey to where he's trying to go. And they are the reminder to just keep going because mouse is scared. Mouse has big feelings. Mouse is afraid he's going to fail. He's frustrated. And each time he has that friend that reminds him, "Have you tried this? Take a deep breath in and a deep breath out and just keep going." And Mouse finally gets to his destination and realizes, "Oh, all of these things got me here." And when I wrote this book, the first person I read it to, of course, was my six and nine-year-old. And my six-year-old, after he started school, came home and he said, "Mom, can we bring your book to class?" And I was like, "Why?" and he said, 'Well, George just started school and I think he's scared. He's new to this school and I think he's scared and he needs your book. And I thought, you're being an owl. You're being a deer. So, if we're not in the time where we're a mouse and

34:25 we need the reminder, then be the owl and be the reminder for that person in your life that's going through something really hard and remind them to just keep going. So this book is as much for the parent or the leader that's reading it to the child, whether it's their child or a niece, nephew, whomever it may be. It's as much of a reminder for that person reading the book that sometimes you just need to put one foot in front of the other. And that your fear is not something that's going to disappear. Courage is doing something in spite of fear. And that brave isn't something that you inherently are. It's something that you choose to do. And that's the real point of this book that I hope resonates with whoever picks it up.

35:04 And I also noticed that you even brought in mindfulness. There's this spread where it's got mouse and a butterfly and they stop, pause, and breathe together. And you say it all in comes all the good and out blows out the bad. Why was it important to bring things like that into the book?

35:24 So mindfulness is so key to us as adults. We know how our breathing impacts our nervous system and we know visualization which I use a lot in my coaching. Picturing the audience, picturing the interactions that you're going to have, visualize the energy, those types of tools that I give my executives. I thought, well, why aren't we learning this at such a young age? And the breathe in and breathe out at the very end of the book was a really special spread for me. In addition to the point that you're talking about where the butterfly and mouse breathe in and out, at the very end, Moon is trying to soothe mouse because he his mind is racing. And it came from the evenings in our house with two boys, as you can imagine, is pretty chaotic. They get the zooies where they're running all around.

36:10 And I've got a very big feeling child. So what we did every night was we did take a deep breath in and a deep breath out, take a deep breath in, take a deep breath out. I mean, even just hearing that, you start to feel this calm. And it's so essential, I think, that children learn not to bottle their emotions, but how to manage their emotions because they're going to be so all over the place. I had my six-year-old yesterday who was just melting down. There was no consoling him. And so I just sat with him. I was like, "Oh, this must be really disappointing.

36:48 This is disappointing." And that's okay. Sometimes we're going to be disappointed. And I think so quickly as parents, we just want to fix everything. Okay. What he was upset about is that nobody on his team picked the name he wanted to pick,

37:01 right? This is what sends us into a tail spin at sex. So he was like, "It's been two years and nobody picks my name." And so what do we do? We don't call up the coach and say, "You know what? My son wants his name to be chosen. Can we do something about that?" No, it was I just sat with him and I was like, "Let's take a deep breath. Gosh, that must be really disappointing." Sometimes we're really disappointed. That's hard. And they learn that not everything goes away. Our rejections from those publishers, it was really disappointing. There wasn't anything somebody could say to make that not be disappointing. But as grown-ups, we learn hopefully, and there's a lot of learning to be done for all of us still, but hopefully we learn to manage those emotions and and calm ourselves in our disappointments. Why aren't we learning this as kids? And so, my hope is that this is one tool to be able to do that.

37:57 Yeah. I'm not sure about you, but for me, I almost found it harder to write a children's book than I did a non-fiction book. And the reason why is you have so few words that you can play with that the imagery has to convey so much of the messaging. And so as I was working with my illustrator and and I think my journey to finding one was similar to yours. I I probably interviewed like 16 of them. But I found that in working with her, I had to really articulate what I wanted her to capture and the images to supplement what was in the words. because I think oftenimes kids learn actually more from what they see than the words that are on the page. Did you find the same thing when you were writing it?

38:44 Here's what's very interesting that I did not expect. So, Source Books Kids is my publisher and they were my finally yes. And this is apparently because I' I've talked to other authors. Publishers do not want the author to select or meet with the illustrator. So, I never knew who they were going to choose, nor did I get any input on the illustrations, and it's because they don't want the author to influence the artistic vision of the illustrator. And I thought that was brilliant. And because I trusted Source Books Kids so much, I was able to let go and say, you know what, this book is in the universe.

39:27 It found its home in this publishing house for a reason. And when they showed me Lauren Gyos, who's our publisher or who who's our illustrator, I was blown away because it is very challenging to visualize movement and emotion with art. And a true artist does that. And that's what Lauren did. The energy that's around mouse when he's really anxious is sort of this black cloud that has these jagged edges. And then when he takes those deep breaths, his ears come up and then they come down and looks like they're moving. It's whimsical and magical and everything that I dreamed of. But I found it so interesting that they went through that process separating the illustrator and the author up until the end. So once I finally met her, the book was done. So, it is such a different process than what I had been expecting because I would have loved to meet with 16 different illustrators and be that type A control

40:25 freak that I am to pick the perfect illustrator and then tell them exactly what I'm envisioning. But I can say the illustrations would have never even been in the vicinity of what they ended up to be had it not been for that separation of word art and illustration art. And the the 40 pages that you're talking about was additionally challenging for me because I'm conveying a very complicated topic. It's even complicated for us as adults of resiliency, grit, courage, bravery. Like it's a hard thing for us to define. So it was I mean it took draft after draft after draft for us to drill that down to something that a six-year-old could say, "George needs this because he's scared." That was the real challenge. And it took years. I mean, this once it was bought, it took two years to finalize and and get to print.

41:18 Your experience was a lot different than mine because I ended up interviewing all my artist and then she and I worked on it for six months together

41:26 together all the way from black and white illustrations to the final colored ones just trying to match the vision with what she was producing. But I had

41:36 to read yours, John. Yeah. And does it come out? It comes out February 24th. Oh, I can't wait.

41:43 And mine features a bunny. But what is the main character? But what I found was that often because she's illustrated so many books, she was guiding me about why we didn't want to do things that in my head I thought we would want to do because I was trying to make it too complex. Mhm. And

42:02 anyway, I think often times when you bring a kids book out like this, you're trying to influence the parents or teachers as much as you are the children who are reading the book because I think you can subliminally teach the parents resilience and selfworth or at least cue them in that these are important topics that outside of the book you need to keep reinforcing with your children. Was that something in the back of your mind you were hoping to do? Of course, because my job is to help leaders become more confident, and if they're more confident, they communicate better, right? Well, what is confidence? Because it's such an overused term in my opinion. Well, confidence is the true belief that you can do anything despite any circumstances. Arrogance is just thinking that you're good at everything.

42:49 And so that idea of resiliency that even if you flopped a keynote like I did or even if you bomb your TV interview that if you just keep going, you get the skill set to get better and then be great on television or not bomb a keynote like I I now don't bomb a keynote. Knock on wood. But that idea was very important to be married with the relationship that you have with your child because I now share stories with my children about when I didn't make the team or when a friend didn't invite me somewhere and I saw all of my other friends had been invited somewhere so that they can see a mirror to their emotions that we as parents face rejection. I was so honest with my kids about how many rejections that I got for this book. And now they're all the more proud of it because they know how hard it took for me to get there. And so as I'm going to school visits or libraries, I'm I'm doing a lot of instore readings.

43:47 I have parents coming up to me and they're like, "I can't tell you how much I needed this message today." Because they're going through some version of a need to just keep going. And there's a really hard challenging world that we all are living in. And three words is not the answer to the challenges that we're having, but it can be a tool that we use in order to navigate these really challenging times. And we've put together a parent and educator free guide. And it was intended to be a conversation continuer once people read the book that they were able to download this guide. And there are conversation prompts with your children. What does it mean to be brave? Is there a time that you've been brave before? What does courage mean? How can you be the friend?

44:38 And then at the end, there's a worry journal which we started with my children from a parenting expert that I interviewed on the podcast that I host. And it was all the idea of writing down like we journal as adults, but we never talk to our kids about journaling a lot, right? I mean, some people may. It wasn't something I thought of. So, the worry journal is a way for them to take all of those worries, the brain bully thoughts, and put them down onto paper so that they're not clouding their mind. And it's a sort of a version of a beat your brain bully, but for our children.

45:08 So, we made that a free resource on our website, and we wanted it to be something that continued the conversation well after bedtime, that it was just the beginning. This book is just the start.

45:19 Lyn, thanks for sharing that. And you and I have talked about a lot today and There's so much more that I'm sure people want to learn about you. Where are the best places for them to learn about your coaching programs, the book, everything that you do?

45:33 For the book, especially for the educator and parent guide, you can go to justkeepgoingbook.com. All of the information is on there. We also have some free coloring pages for your little ones. And then all of my executive coaching is just linsmith.com. And then I'm also on all social medias at linsmithtv. So I hope to connect with you. DM me, talk to me, tell me what you're experiencing because a lot of these things I'm going to be putting into this book that's going to be coming that hopefully, John, I join you on your podcast again in 2026.

46:05 Awesome. Well, Lynn, it was such an honor to have you. So glad we could do this. Thank you so much for joining.

46:10 Same. And congratulations on your book. I cannot wait to get it in February. What's the title?

46:16 You Matter, Luma. Oh, I love that. H I can't wait to share it with my kids. Awesome. Thank you.

46:24 Thank you, John.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "The Hidden FEAR Every CEO Has and How to Beat It | Lynn Smith"?

Lynn Smith (Guest).

What is "The Hidden FEAR Every CEO Has and How to Beat It | Lynn Smith" about?

The discussion highlights the pervasive challenges CEOs face, particularly the destructive inner voice known as the "brain bully," which manifests as self-doubt and poor communication. It emphasizes that overcoming this inner critic is crucial for effective leadership and clear expression, rather than relying on superficial techniques or hacks.

What is mentioned in this John R. Miles episode?

8 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Lynn Smith, Passion Struck, Just Keep Going, Source Books Kids, Harry Buddha Magar, CNN. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The Hidden FEAR Every CEO Has and How to Beat It | Lynn Smith"?

The episode runs 47 min; the transcript is about 8,571 words in 87 timestamped sections.

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