Transcript

Why Love Feels So Hard - And How to Finally Feel Safe in Your Relationship

From Mark Hyman, MD · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 4 min · 11,687 words · 110 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Why Love Feels So Hard - And How to Finally Feel Safe in Your Relationship", an episode of Mark Hyman, MD published November 26, 2025 (1 h 4 min, about 11,687 words). It mentions 4 people, works and ideas, including It Begins With You, Jillian Tarecki, Doctor Hyman Show, Conscious Women.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: It Begins With You, Doctor Hyman Show, Jillian Tarecki
  2. – 1:04:20: It Begins With You, Conscious Women

Notable quotes from "Why Love Feels So Hard - And How to Finally Feel Safe in Your Relationship"

  • Jillian Tarecki is a renowned relations expert.
    about Jillian Tarecki · at
  • Welcome, Jillian, to the Doctor.
    about Doctor Hyman Show · at
  • It's it's It Begins With You, which is the title of your book, which is what we're gonna be talking about.
    about It Begins With You · at
  • I have courses for couples, and I have a membership for women called the Conscious Women for women who are really trying to break patterns and become them their best selves.
    about Conscious Women · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

Books & papers

Companies & orgs

Full transcript with timestamps

What you're afraid of is that you are not good enough, and that because you're not good enough, you are somehow going to be deprived of love. That is the fear that underlies all problems in relationships. Jillian Tarecki is a renowned relations expert. She's a New York Times bestselling author. She's a host of podcast, Jillian on Love. Jillian has helped millions of people over the last twenty years to revolutionize their relationship with themselves so that they can transform their romantic relationships. We reached out to our audience, and we let them know you were coming on the podcast.

And the number one topic they wanted to know about was emotional regulation and managing triggers. Nine times out of 10, we're projecting. We're not seeing our partner. We're seeing our ex. We're seeing mom. We're seeing dad, and we're seeing things that we haven't resolved inside ourselves and making our partner the enemy. This is the most important key to self regulation, is stopping the story inside your head that is making your partner into the enemy. How can couples rebuild a connection if it's faded or it's lost?

You cannot change another person. You can only change yourself. You have to have the mindset of, I'm gonna show up in the best way that I possibly can for me. And if it changes things great and it doesn't, then I know that maybe this isn't the right relationship for me. Talk about heartbreak because I think it's something people really struggle with. People write into me all the time saying, it's been two years. When am I gonna get over this person? And what I've discovered is that they're not really grieving the relationship anymore.

They are actually stuck in the story of what happened. Number two, something else is going on in their life that is making it difficult to move on. They can't get themselves out of the emotional state of sadness or whatever the grief because there's other things that are not working in their life. So therefore, the path to healing is Hey, it's doctor Hyman. I'm so excited to share this episode with you today, but before we dive in, I want to get your help. Please take a minute to hit that subscribe button, whether you're watching here on YouTube or listening on your favorite podcast platform.

It truly means the world to me, and it helps my team and I bring you this podcast every single week. Plus, I don't want you to miss a thing. So thanks so much for being part of this community, and I'm glad you're here. Welcome, Jillian, to the Doctor. Hyman Show. I'm really glad to have you talking about relationships because they are one of the most fraught areas of people's lives that perplex them, confuse them, break their hearts, have them spinning, don't know how to navigate, don't know what's true, don't have the right road map, and and there's so much chaos in relationships.

I see it in my own community. I've certainly been married many times and divorced three times, so I get it. Love you. I'm good at. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm an expert in relationships now, honestly. Exactly. So much experience. So, you know, I wanna dive in first by asking you about your own story because, you know, you didn't sort of come into the world born with these insights that you've developed around love and relationships. They've they've come after a lot of hardship and your own struggles and your own childhood challenges and with your parents that that that led to sort of a whole bunch of stuff that was kinda not right in you and that you had to heal.

And and I'd love you to just sort of maybe share your personal story of heartbreak loss, transformation, your mother's death, your divorce, all the things that you you struggle with that help you understand that it's not the other person. It's it's It Begins With You, which is the title of your book, which is what we're gonna be talking about. Everybody definitely get a copy of that book. It's out now. It begins with you, basically, about how to heal your relationships and heal yourself, and I think it's an incredible book.

So I think you're writing it, but let's dive into your story. I taught yoga for many years, almost like twenty years in New York City. So I was always obsessed with the relationship between the mind and the body. I was always obsessed with how do we deepen our relationship with self, and and that includes our minds and our bodies. I was teaching yoga and always felt like there was something more that I wanted to do with my life. I but but I didn't know what that was. And, also, I was very much what many women want, especially in their, you know, twenties and thirties.

They want to get married and have kids. So I would I didn't know I wasn't raised I was raised with the the understanding that you just follow certain rules. Like, you follow, like, the way things are supposed to be done. Like, I was supposed to have a job and have a four zero one k and get married and and have kids. And I was like, no. I'm gonna be a yoga teacher. I'm not gonna have a four zero one k, but I'll get married. And, I met the man who would become my husband and then my ex husband. And I always say that our relationship before we got married was about 90% great and 10% extremely problematic.

Problem but really problematic. Like, the things that that you shouldn't ignore. But we think that marriage a lot of people think and a lot of women think that marriage is that ultimate commitment that's going to give her the security that she needs to feel comfortable in life and in relationship. But the reality is is that marriage just magnifies you know, that 10% became the 90%, And the 90% that was good actually became the 10%. So it was a very challenging marriage, and I felt very lost in it. I didn't know what to do.

And, towards the the right before or about six months before we we ended it, my mom was diagnosed with terminal cancer. But the morning of 06/02/2014, I woke up to a miscarriage, and he decided to leave the marriage via text. He said he wasn't coming home. And days prior, I had just discovered that my I was just told that my mother only had about a couple months left to live. Got it coming and going. Yeah. I yeah. It was it was just it was it was it was a it was a terrible day. And so I that was a day where just my whole world fell apart, and I remember distinctly having this thought like, oh, this is what it means for your life to fall apart.

And, it was a very shocking time, and I you know, it took me a long time to really pick myself off the ground and to pick up the pieces, but I became obsessed with two things during that time. Number one, how am I going to get myself out of this hole? Like, how am I gonna feel better? How am I going to move on? And then number two, which was was the which is the obsession I continue to have to this day is what makes a relationship work? Because I was shocked, devastated, and beside myself that I was in this position that this didn't work.

And it was a real moment of, I guess, I have to look in the mirror. Reckoning. Yes. That's That's when you kinda came up with the idea. It begins with you. Like, maybe there's something Yeah. I mean, I I don't think how you were showing up or Yeah. I think was or patterns were. Think there was just that moment of, you know, I am the common denominator, know, in all my relationships. That doesn't mean that I am the problem. It doesn't mean that I am the only problem. It it just means that my relationships are a reflection of my choices.

They are a reflection of my capacity. They are a reflection of my skill set or lack thereof. They're a reflection of my self esteem and self worth. They are a reflection of my childhood conditioning. I had to take a look. Well, it's so interesting that you bring up the childhood conditioning because it you know, we think we're grown ups and adults, and we've evolved and developed as human beings, and then you get in relationship. And so like what Rob Doss says, you think you're enlightened, and then you go home for Thanksgiving.

Yes. Exactly. Then you spend time with family. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And so I think this is the true of relationships. After couples are together for a while, the the electricity kind of dims a little bit. The sparks stop flying as as intently, but the reality of of their original childhood love software emerges, which is based a lot on how we experience our parents, how they treated us, how they treated each other, the models we had, the beliefs we basically formed as a result of that, and how we carry those unconsciously into our relationships, and how those really form the basis of our or our dysfunction in relationships.

And then we have to figure out how to unpack that and repair that, and and to kind of rewrite our corrupted love software. And I certainly had to do that in my life, and it was incredibly painful, difficult process. But but I think, you know, there's no roadmap for this, And your book, it it begins with you, is kind of a road map for this. And we we reached out to our audience at YouTube, and we let them know you were coming on the podcast. And and the number one topic they wanted to know about was emotional regulation and managing triggers.

You know, I I once heard that triggers are your teachers. If you get triggered, that's a good thing because it means there's something to look at. You know? Maybe there's something with your partner really that you need to pay attention to, or maybe it's something unresolved in you that you're projecting on your partner and creating chaos. So how do we kind of understand if it's it's old trauma in our childhood software, or whether it's something in the moment that really is real? And how do you regulate yourself in the heat of all these triggers to kind of manage that?

And how do you recognize this emotional dysregulation? Because I've seen it a lot. I've seen it in partners. I've seen it in friends. I you know? Yeah. Just people come apart, and then they can't hold a steady state of being in the present moment with their partner in their adult self. It's like I call it the amygdala hijack. You know? It's like your amygdala is your fight or flight part of your brain. So your amygdala hijacks the the the stage and and takes over. Yeah. And then when that takes over, isn't it also referred to as the reptilian brain?

So there were no longer actually behaving like human beings. We're kind of really in our most primal state reacting. Dinosaurs. Dinosaurs. Exactly. So there's a lot to unpack here. The first thing that I wanna say is that it's not just, it's not just our love software from childhood. It's cultural as well. We don't live in a culture that that romanticizes romanticism, that that that sees love as what as lust. So we are we are we've been taught by society, by art, and by cultural narratives that that loving someone is actually lust when it's not.

Those are two very different things. Now a lot of relationships fall apart because of two things. One is two people are not actually doing what it takes to keep some of that passion alive. You know, they don't the the passion is very motivating. When we feel passionate about anyone or anything, that's what motivates us. Yeah. In a relationship, in a long term relationship, that passion, what changes is that in the beginning, you just feel it because you're under the spell of chemistry and attraction, which is which is very as as I'm sure you can can attest to is very biological and very hormonal.

Right? There's there's there's all these hormonal flares that are happening. Then to keep the passion alive, we actually have to be more passionate in the relationship. We're thinking that it actually is something that's coming outside of ourselves versus being curious about the person versus, like, bringing some of that passion home to our relationship. And then also understanding that, like, all that crazy chemistry in the beginning of a relationship is not an emotional connection. That's something else. And if you can learn to value the friendship part, then that's then that is actually going to be what's going to help you have a longer relationship.

So I just we're I we're gonna get to the emotional marry your best friend kinda what you're saying? Well, you know, it's so interesting. Yes. And, yes, you wanna marry your best friend because of if you want to be in a relationship over the long haul, don't you want someone who you can trust and you can who you know really has your back when your mom dies, when your dad dies, when God forbid your child dies, when something terrible happens? Yeah. You want your best friend. You don't want the person who's just great in bed who you can't trust.

That's the last person you want when the shit hits the fan in your life. But at the same time, you don't want you don't wanna just nurture the friendship. You also wanna nurture the passion part of the relationship. Anyway, so I really felt like that was important because we tend to blame everything on childhood childhood trauma, and it's just simply that it plays a role, but it's not everything. We have to understand just our conditioning of just watching a rom com and that we don't understand what it really means to love someone.

Okay. So getting back into self regulation and when we're triggered. Yeah. It's really hard. And some people, like, I'm a very fiery person. So it's like if I get upset about something, like, I'm gonna get really upset. Right? And, like, we and some people are just more reactive than others. And and part of that is cultural. You know, I know two people who are married. He comes from an Italian family. She comes from a Nordic family. So like Totally different. Totally different. So when he's when he's happy, he is really happy.

When he's upset, he is really upset. He talks with his hands, and there's so much drama, she's more reserved. Now interestingly enough, that's part of what attracted them to each other because they're so different. But how are they going to be with conflict and self regulation? So she might be totally dysregulated and triggered, but her go to might be to to shut down, to get cold as ice, to pull away. He might just get angry or loud. And so what they have to both understand is that, one, they are responding to each other's different styles.

Number two, he needs to go take a walk. She probably needs to go take a walk. And so the self regulation when you're triggered, you said something about projection. Nine times out of 10, we're projecting. Nine times out of 10, we when we're upset with our partner and, of course, this this is not always. Sometimes our partner legitimately does something that upsets us. Of course. But nine times out of 10, we're not seeing our partner. We're seeing our ex. We're seeing mom. We're seeing dad, and we're seeing things that we haven't resolved inside ourselves and and making our partner the enemy.

This is the most important key to self regulation is stopping the story inside your head that is making your partner into the enemy. One person said to me once, you know, we're meaning making machines. Yeah. We tend to make meanings and throw interpretations and projections onto the world around us, including our partners. And that's what gets us into trouble. And we don't even stop to question our assumptions or beliefs or projections. We just think they're real, and they feel real in our body, but they're mostly not.

Yes. Yes. So in the moment, you take a deep breath. You take a deep breath, and you say I'm gonna, you Pause and go away. Right. Yeah. Pause, go for a walk. I don't know. Go work out. Take a shower. Take a nap. Maybe you need a drink of water. Maybe you need a little food. You know? Maybe you're hungry. One of one of the biggest unlocks in this situation is is is an interesting one, which is I I was sort of taught by my friend who's a life coach, Lauren Zander. And, you know, she basically said, if you can if you can only have one crazy person in the room at a time, that's kind of the rule.

And so someone's kind of in their amygdala or their reptilian brain, the other person has to breathe and let it all be received and not put meaning on it, not defend it, not try to argue with it, not try to fight it, because that's just gonna make it worse. Yeah. And so you kind of reflect back that you get what they're saying, that you that they feel heard, they feel understood, they feel validated. Even if you think they're 100% wrong, they're still entitled to their perspective and opinion. And as soon as you do that, it often transmutes.

You don't have to fix it or change it. And it was it's kind of like a it's kind of like a party trick, but it really works. And I've I've used it in in live situations where some of the other person was just kind of really out of control. Yes. And just by by actually feeling validated in their perspective, and seen and heard, it like diffuses all that energy. But it's it's really hard to hold in your body because you have to be like a you know, like kind of like a what's the world? Kinda like water, like the Dallas.

You just let it flow and not let you know, be a hard surface that it bumps against. And and that's hard. But it's it's really a powerful tool. I I agree that it's a powerful tool. I think I think it's a worthwhile aim for everyone to aim to be the calm person in the room. I think that that's just always a better I think that's a good pursuit is to be the calm person. That's a good idea. It's it's not it's not always possible. It no. Well, actually, it's always possible. It's always in your control. Sometimes when you're hijacked, though, it doesn't feel like it.

No. Exactly. But but but our behavior is a 100% in our control. Mhmm. And so yes. So in those moments where you have allowed yourself to to lose control, that's when you have to just say, you know what? I feel out of control right now. Just gonna, like, take a time out. I'll come back. Or I'm really sorry. I'm very, very like, things that I've used in the past and help people use in the past to just say, you know what? I'm really worked up right now. I'm so sorry. Like, I'm gonna I'm gonna take a minute. Like, I'm upset right now, and I'm gonna take a minute.

But this this all of this requires so much practice. And awareness. And it's what you're doing outside of the relationship that matters. So people I have found that people who have a regular meditation practice or who really or have other sort of practices that help them ground, then I find that they are less reactive in those moments. It doesn't mean that they're not having reaction. It doesn't mean that they're not getting upset, but they're they are less likely to to let their amygdala, like, take over their entire physiology.

That's really important. And I think having that capacity to create a pause between your thought and your words and your actions is really hard for most people. It just collapses, so it always seems like one. And I think, know, Viktor Frankl said, you know, between stimulus and response, there's a pause, and in that pause lies a choice, and that choice lies our freedom. Right? So so he was in a concentration camp, for God's sake, and he was able to be liberated inside because he didn't let the the Nazi guards actually take his psychological freedom.

Yes. Didn't give them the power over his emotional state, which is, I mean, pretty extraordinary. I think most of us don't have that extreme, but it's an interesting framework to think about and to be able to slow down enough to to actually create that pause and to not believe your thoughts. I mean, I think, you know, my my friend said we have a lot of ants in our head, automatic negative thoughts, or we, you know, believe every stupid thought we have. And we don't have to believe every thought we have. They're just they're just thought form.

That's why when you say meditation is good, because you just sit there and you go, oh, wow. I'm watching all these thoughts go by, and, like, gee, one minute I'm happy, one minute I'm sad, one minute I hate this person, one minute I love this person. Like, so they're like, you're you're kinda you kinda oh, this is just my monkey mind. You know? This is not real. Exactly. And it's it's a really powerful practice. So let's kinda go back to the the root root because you said nine times out of 10, it's usually something from your past, like from your trauma or your childhood or some.

And, you know, other times it's your cultural conditioning, or maybe the other person. But if that's true, you know, how do you how do we think about starting to heal emotional wounds? Because people do therapy. Mhmm. People are doing things like Hoffman, which is an intensive group process to work through that. People are doing psychedelic medicine therapy, like MDMA therapy, or psilocybin therapy. How do people start to kind of really go back and excavate? I call I call it soul archaeology. How do you go back and dig and find out what's going on there that helps you unpack it?

Yeah. This is a very important question. And I believe that there is not just one way to heal. I know people who have had profound breakthroughs in therapy. I haven't. And, you know, I know people who have been in therapy for years and years and years, and nothing's changing. And I know people who've been in therapy, and it was, like, the best thing that's ever happened to them. I I sort of see it as, like, two part approach, which is are you so number one, like, are you experiencing any sort of psychosomatic symptoms?

So, like, are you are you experiencing any sort of physical pain or illness that could be a result of your nervous system being chronically dysregulated because you're chronically stressed because you haven't you haven't dealt with certain emotions. Right? And so in that way, I find somatic work to be incredibly healing. But to me, sometimes the most the most profound somatic work I've ever done and, you know, I've been a yoga practitioner for almost thirty years. So Yeah. Beyond exercise is is fun. Having fun, remembering that you are alive and and whether that's with friends.

Yeah. Playing and and connection. I have found that to be, profound. And I think that, another part is, you know, because I've dealt with so much grief and heartbreak and I've helped thousands of people overcome heartbreak is really the story that we tell ourselves about that heartbreak. When we can be more mindful and look at things from different perspectives, that can be incredibly healing. Like, for example, I healed by understanding that if someone betrayed me or was really wrong to me or wasn't the right father that, you know, they should have been, I recognize that it's not personal.

I recognize, like, there's something going on with them. So being able to look at the story differently, that's healing. Being able for some people some people have no idea how their childhood impacts their current reality. And in that regard, therapy can be wildly impactful in a great way. But if you have all the people who are who have all the awareness, they've done the Hoffmann process, they've done this, they've done and they're still not getting better or they're still not feeling better. You know, sometimes it's it's it boils down to the fact that they are they're valuing certain things in their life that's not helping them.

Sometimes it means they actually have to help other people because they're too wrapped up in their own problems. So you asked a question, like, how do we heal this? And I'm answering it in a way, like, this is not it's not just one answer. It's so it's so multifaceted. What works for one person doesn't work for another. But I will say this, for most people who've, like, done everything and they still feel stuck, look at your beliefs about yourself and about the world and your and your world, get out of your head by helping someone else in a in a big way so that you stop thinking about you and yourself, and then figure out if there's anything stuck in your body and nervous system, and that's it.

Not easy. The somatic work's important because a lot of the stuff is stored in your body. So Mhmm. It's not you can't intellectualize it. You can't just know the story, and it's not fully metabolized and and kind of letting you be free and not have that automatic reaction. So that's that's a tough one. I think a lot of somatic therapies can be really helpful. The you know, there there's a number of tools out there. I know it's important to be able to investigate your own thinking. It's clear what you're talking about.

And to do other modalities, then try things that work. Because it's not it's not one size fits all for everybody. But it's important to understand that that, you know, you know, often what's showing up in the relationship is your five year old or your eight year old, not your 35 year old or your 50 year old or your 60 year old. And that and and having that understanding that you're both both people in a relationship are are operating usually from that unconscious place. I think Carl Jung said it clearly, you know, if you you don't examine your unconscious, it will basically control your life.

I think that that's kind of what most people are stuck in. Let's sort of talk about heartbreak because you you mentioned a few times, and I think it is something people really struggle with. And it it causes depression. It can cause real dysfunction in life. It can cause suicide and other more serious things. You've helped thousands of people navigate this. So give us a sense of how do we how do we navigate that if if anybody listening is going through that on a on a relationship level or on even a grief level for loss of someone they love?

You know? Well, let's let's talk about it from a, like, a divorce breakup perspective. You know? Most people, not every breakup is created equal, obviously, but there are some breakups that really bring us to our knees. And for those that are really traumatic, it's just like an emotional catastrophe. Yep. You have to what's really useful for people to understand is that you are going to go through a temporary insanity. It's it really is that. You are not going to feel in your right mind. You're going to feel like you're going through withdrawal.

You are going to feel like you're not good enough. Your mind is going you're going to ruminate. You're not going to feel like yourself. You're going to you're going to feel insane. And that's because there's just so much going on. Some people are are divorcing after twenty years together, and then you're trying to figure out who am I if I am not this in this relationship. So there's an identity crisis that's happening. A lot of people are then fearful. They're fearful of the unknown. They're fearful that no one's gonna love them again.

They're fearful of you know, they're sometimes you think you're crying over this person, but really what's happening is that it's unearthing old pain. So you're crying for the father that you never had or the mother you never had. Mhmm. So some of these breakups can be can can, like I said, be a real emotional catastrophe. And so I think the first point the first part is just understanding that, like, you're going to be okay. This is incredibly difficult for everyone. No one no one no one gets out of heartbreak. There's no way to circumvent to circumvent the pain of a broken heart.

It's just it's it's part of the human the human condition. And then you want People could be in it for years. Like, I you know, I've I've seen people Which is a crisis I see. That's a that's You You know, I literally I literally know someone whose, you know, husband died thirty years ago, and they're still constantly talking about them, can't let it go, or in grief constantly. Yeah. Their life is completely spiraled. I mean, it's just It's very sad. It's quite an extreme situation, but how do how so we all go through this process, what you're saying.

It's inevitable. You can't avoid it. You have to lean into it. And then what? Like, at some point, you kinda have to get sorted. You know? Yeah. So, I wanna address the woman that you just spoke about who's still grieving her late husband, you said, of that who died forty years ago. I wanna address that because I think it's important. But but people write into me all the time saying, you know, it's been two years. It's been three years. You know? Some people are saying, you know, it's been six months. When am I gonna get over this person?

I'm like, you know what? Six months is nothing. Like, you need you're gonna you're gonna have to face this a little bit longer. But for some people, it's like, it's a really long time. And what I've discovered is that it's it's not about they're not really grieving the relationship anymore. They are actually stuck in the story of what happened. That's number one. Number two, something else is going on in their life that is making it difficult to move on. So they almost always what I find is that there's also they're not happy with work or they're having, an issue with a family member.

So they're not they're they're it's extremely contextual, and it's not just about them. And so they can't get themselves out of the emotional state of sadness or whatever the grief because there's there's other things that are not working in their life. So, therefore, the path to healing is to not focus on the the relationship, is to not focus on getting over that person, but to focus on what else is missing from that person's life and to help them, you know, whatever, get a better job, find their purpose, find community, work on their bodies, whatever it is that's happening.

And that's how they actually start to heal. So it becomes less about the other person because the thing is is that we put so much focus on that situation when really something else is happening. Similarly, like, I know people who will, like, go back to the person who's, like, totally wrong for them, like, doesn't wanna commit, you know, doesn't even treat them that well. And they're like, you know, I get really strong. I break up with them, and I keep going back. Like, what is it? Well, you know, sometimes it's just the sex is great, but, like, it's not just that.

It's this person there's always context. That person almost always is feeling untethered from their family, community, or from purpose. And so because they feel untethered, they go back to something that's familiar that is get meeting their needs in the moment. It's meeting their needs for connection in the moment. It's meeting their needs for, you know, significance in the moment, but it's always an an example or a symptom of something else. Rarely do you have the person who's like, I feel great in my life. I feel connected.

I feel connected to self, and they keep going back to the person who treats them like crap. It doesn't happen. So for the woman, for your friend who's still grieving the loss of her husband from thirty years ago, there's different strategies. One that really helps is her doing something in that honors her late husband so that she doesn't feel so alone in the world. She actually honors him. Also, there could be something else going on in her life that's making it very difficult for her to move on. If there's oh, you know, people are so interesting.

That's why I love the work that I do and why it can be very tricky on social media, especially with people saying, if you're feeling this, well, then this is this is because this is happening. And and it's rarely the case when you speak to someone, you see that there is this whole holistic tapestry, and there's this whole thing that's going on. And if you really wanna help someone change, you have to look at the other things that are missing in their life and help them meet their needs. So it's really looking at, you know, the kaleidoscope of their life and where things aren't working and and people tend to kind of project it all into relationship, and you're saying it starts with you.

Right? It always it always starts with you. Right? Yeah. It starts with you. And I think I wanna help people understand themselves better. I wanna help people understand their behavior more because then then it then they don't feel so lost in it. And that's where suffering comes from. Suffering comes from feeling lost and not knowing how to navigate? I think true suffering comes feeling from feeling completely out of control to change your circumstances. I think that's that that causes suffering more than anything else.

Well, you know, one of the things you talk about, Jillian, is is sort of what makes relationships work. What are the sort of non negotiables? Would you mind sharing a little bit about what those are so people can understand what a what a healthy relation looks like, what it feels like, how you think about it and define it? Respect and trust. That's the baseline. That's the foundation that creates emotional safety. If you don't feel respected or you don't respect the other, you've got you've got no leg to stand on.

If you don't trust the other person, trust them to be there for you, trust them to be your friend, trust them to not stray from the relationship, there's nothing. And then it's how you deal with conflict. How you and and conflict is really in the repair. Do you have an argument and then do you ignore each other for a week? Do you have an argument and not talk about and sweep it under the rug and then get very resentful? So it's really in how you deal with repair and respect and trust. So you build that through the way that you communicate.

You build that by the way that you listen. You build the respect and trust by by being good friends to each other. You build that by being reliable. You build that by by understanding like, men and women fundamentally don't understand each other. So if you're in a in a heterosexual relationship, you need to understand what your partner needs, and you need to be able to meet their needs. And most people are only concerned about their own needs and getting their own needs met. And it has to be explicit. You know, often they we can read each other's minds, but we can't.

No. We can't. Curious is a good is a good quality to have in a relationship. Being curious about what they're experiencing about them as human beings. Loved. Yeah. Yeah. This whole idea of rupture repair is something a friend of mine who's a couples therapist talks about. You know, we have these ruptures in relationship, and the key is how do we repair? You you said relationships don't die because of lack of love, but because people stop feeling connected, and and they have these ruptures and these little tiny death by a thousand cuts.

How how can couples rebuild a connection if if it's faded or it's lost in the process of this constant kind of rupture, rupture, rupture without repair? I mean, how do they kind of get back on track? By first asking yourself, how am I complicit in what it is that I say I don't want in this relationship? Yeah. Oh, that's a big one. Look in the mirror. Look in the mirror. Nobody wants to do that. Nobody wants to No. It's your fault. You did it to me. It's the blame game. Yeah. Yeah. So that is the first step. What can I do differently?

No. Is it how you showed up in a way that actually contributes to the dynamic rather than saying, oh, it's only this person. But like Yes. The old adage it takes two to tango is actually true is what you're saying. It very much so. I mean, of course, in some cage cases, it's not. And, definitely, there are cases where there's one person who's more of the problem, but you have to this is not easy, but it's necessary. You have to have the mindset of I'm gonna show up in the best way that I possibly can for me. And if it and if it changes things great, and if it doesn't, then I know that maybe this isn't the right relationship for me.

But it repair it the it just you can you cannot change another person. You can only change yourself. And people tend to but we can influence another person. And the way that we influence another person is by changing ourselves and also by understanding, number one, human nature and understanding your partner's nature. Like, everybody wants to feel understood. Everyone wants to feel appreciated. Everyone wants to feel like they're listened to. So maybe the first step is I'm gonna be a better listener. I'm gonna just come into this and just be a better listener rather than trying to always prove my point.

No. I was gonna say that that that is not an easy thing to do. You know, there's a whole process of nonviolent communication, you know, how to have crucial conversations, nonviolent communication. There's a lot of work on this, how to how to actively listen. These are skills, and you can learn them. You know? And and it it's not easy to put aside your narrative, your story, your beliefs, your projections, and deeply listen to what the other person's experiencing from a place of love and compassion without having to correct them or fix it or change it or have them even be right, but just to validate them as a human being.

It's one of the most powerful unlocks that I found in relationship, and the most powerful tools to actually get present enough to do that. But that's hard. You have to know how to navigate your nervous system and be able to hold that discomfort in your nervous system as you're listening without Yes. Interrupting, without talking over, without correcting. And it's really it's one of the most important relationship skills that we were never taught in school. Yeah. But it works. It's it's like a magic trick. And and there's a lot of resources out there.

I think people, you know, will put in the show notes around things like active listening or the nonviolent communication work or crucial conversations and other tools, but there there there there really is a methodology to it. And I think it's an incredible tool. I'm also curious from your perspective, you know, people are listening and and they understand the context. I think people would agree with mostly what you're saying. But, you know, there's a question of how how do people actually start to acquire these tools?

What are the what are the practical tools who wanna start building better relationships, healing their relationship with themself? It it's not immediately obvious to people how to do that. I'm gonna get to that, but there's something that I wanna say about communication repair because it's incredibly important, which is this. We talked about the mind creating stories. So the first step is, have I been am I stuck in a story about my partner that has made them into the anime? And do what are my rules that they have broken that has made it so that I am so angry at them?

Your unconscious rules. Yes. But now we have to make the and then we have to make them conscious. Exactly. Like, oh, they're always late, and I have a belief system that if someone's late for me, they don't respect me, so I'm angry at them. When really maybe from their from their perspective, they're always late because of some it's not because they don't respect you. You know? So we always have these rules, and it's we have to have some rules that are sort of like our boundaries in a relationship. But sometimes we we have so many rules, and we make it really easy for our partner to fail instead of it making it easy for our partner to win.

And that's where we have to get very, very honest with ourselves, which is, am I making it really easy for my partner to fail with me? And is this something that I is this a pattern that I have if I'm really honest in my relationships or for other people? And you said about the expectations. They should behave like this. They should do that. They didn't do this. They did do this. I don't like that. And then you you your mind, you're you're keeping a list Yes. Basically, a scorecard. And it and and then it's either expressed in the moment or it builds up over time and it gets exploded in some crisis.

But that that that's kinda what usually is generating the the challenge. And Yes. Sometimes you know what those are consciously, what those requirements are. Like, I need my husband to put the toilet seat down or whatever. You know? But or I need to like him to close the cupboards. That's my thing. I don't close the cupboards. Like I'm I'm learning. But like There's a fun thing that some men do. Yeah. We're officially in the thick of holiday season, and while everyone's rushing around doing their shopping, I want you to think about something different this year.

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And this sale runs just through December 2, so don't miss it. Whatever my partner's issue is with that, that might be coming from her sense of a need for things to be in order or control, and it's different than how I experience things. So Yeah. You know, there's a way to sort of understand, like, your unconscious assumptions about how things should be as the way, not a way. Exactly. And I think we have to we have to sort of relax a little bit and go, wait a minute. There's a lot of ways to do things. And if things are really strong preferences of mine, like, want the bed made every morning, I'm like, why make the bed?

You're gonna mess up at night. She's like, I like to have the bed nice in the day. I'm like, okay. Great. You know, like, I I can I can do that? So I make the bed every morning when I get out of bed after her. And yeah. But it's but it's but it's those simple things that, like, which you can actually start to kinda be conscious of. And then if there are things that aren't in integrity with you, like, to me, it's like, I am not out of integrity with myself, I make the bed. But if I betray her, I'm out of integrity with myself, and I do something to accommodate a thing that I don't think I should it doesn't feel good to me, then that's sort of a sort of a betrayal of yourself.

It's a betrayal of your partner because you're not telling them the truth that you feel. It's hard to tell the truth, and you talk about how in relationships often there's these unsaid things that build up over time, and they in in Buddhism, it's like they call it the dust on the mirror. You know, the dust accumulates on the mirror. How do you keep a clear mirror so you can see what's what's present? So how how do you help people navigate that? Well, sort of just like what we were saying. You know, you said something really important, which is that it's good to it's good to be in a it's good to be accommodating in your relationship.

It's it's good to just do things for your partner. It's good to be that kind of partner that but you don't obviously wanna do things that's gonna portray portray yourself and your integrity. But, like, if something's really important to your partner, like and it's not something that by you doing it, you're, like, betraying who you very who you are, do it. Do it. And if your partner is not actually doing it, like, can you just let it go? Like so I'm gonna make this very basic. There is a lot that you're just going to have to tolerate in the person who you live with.

And can you have a more flexible, easygoing perspective and mindset when it comes to your relationship? The people who do are happier in their relationships. People who are extremely rigid are actually unhappier in their relationships. And so that doesn't mean again, we're not you know, because I I work with a lot of people who do betray themselves in relationships and really, really horrendous stuff, but we're not talking about that right now. You know? So I, you know, I was speaking to someone. She's she and her partner, they've been together for, like, twelve years, and they have an amazing relationship.

And she said, you know, there's they're both very different. And she said, I love her so much, and I love the relationship so much that, like, doing thing like, going out of my way to do certain things that I know is just gonna make her comfortable doesn't feel like a sacrifice to me. It feels like I am just adding adding energy and money to the emotional bank account of our relationship. I mean, I think that's important. I mean, the the the there's a whole framework around, you know, making deposits in your emotional bank account versus withdrawals, how do you do more deposits than withdrawal?

You know, like, five to one or 10 to one ratio in order to keep things very good. Right? Yeah. You just wanna be a giver, and you don't wanna be someone who just gives and gives and gives with no boundaries, and you don't wanna be someone who just gives because you wanna get. But you just you know, this idea of generosity, like, this emotional generosity. People who are just emotionally generous generally make the best partners. And those who are keeping score all the time are usually a nightmare to be in a relationship with.

I think I think, you know, what you're speaking to is is a deeper thing for people is this sort of sense of being out of control and the need to be in control. And the more out of control you are inside, the more you wanna control your external environment to make you safe. But, you know, in relationships, that really backfires because, you know, you're you're not actually in relationship to the authentic moment. You're in relationship to some past trauma, or or hurt, or belief. And and so that that's a very important sort of thing for people to understand, and it's also it's so hardwired into people's nervous system.

So it takes a lot of work to resolve that. It's practice. It's practice. And sometimes when you're just like so for some people, it's like a light switch goes off in their mind. They're like, wow. I never thought of it that way. You know, I just and some pee there's not just one way to have a relationship. Some people, the best thing that could ever happen to them is to be in a committed relationship but don't live together. You know, not everyone is actually meant to live together. My my mother said when my my stepfather retired, she says, married him for better or worse, but not for lunch.

For not for lunch. I love that. Exactly. For better or worse, but not for lunch. Yeah. So figure out I love that. That's great. Figure out what works for you. And also, like, where I find that people really struggle is being able to differentiate what a true character defect is versus something that is just a little annoying, but but it's worth it to tolerate because all the rest is good. In terms of the the nine truths you talk about in the book, you talk about these nine truths about love that are Yeah. Really important to think about, and they're they're hard truths.

Can you unpack that a little bit? Because I think you you basically present them as a as a life changing toolkit, and and things that if you follow these truths and you kind of internalize them, they can transform you transform your relationships and your life. So I thought about these nine truths for about four years and really worked on them and thought about, like, you know, what would I wanna leave behind as, like, the most important principles that we don't learn in school. And, you know, I certainly didn't learn them in the therapy office, and I just didn't learn them.

And I wanted them to be I wanted them to help people regardless of what their relationship status was or is. You know, the first one, which is the title of the book, which begins with you, means, like, it's just nothing changes in your life. You you have to be the change that you wish to see in your life, and that includes your love life. And it's not about, you know, the problem is just you. It's just about nothing is going to change, and we have to be responsible for our choices. And that and it's not I wrote it in such a way it was important for me to convey that this is not a slap on the wrist.

This was more like, see, you are actually more in control than you think. Because to be out of control, like I said, is where people suffer the most. And that you are you can actually make change. It doesn't even matter how terrible your childhood was. Like, you really can make change, but you have to understand these truths. And so that's why I went into I I thought about everything just also, like, the power of the mind. And I you know, after because I worked with thousands of people, like, thou in a very short period of time.

And I really wanted to get incredibly skilled in my craft. And there were just these common themes. And one of it is just, like, I knew the nature of the mind because I've been studying the nature of the mind for many years through the practice of yoga. And you you referenced the monkey mind. This idea that the mind is sort of a battlefield and that if we don't what what's going to interfere with a relationship more than anything else is what goes up and up. What goes on up in our minds. It's the way that we think.

Yeah. Always. Because if we're living more in our hearts, we're gonna have a lot less relationship problems, but it's hard. You know? We've been hurt. We've been hurt. And, you know, there's cultural. Like, we live in a society that's that really that really encourages us to think more know, and feel less, and that's just part of it. And then there there's was also this lust is not love, and no one is coming to save you, and you have to make peace with your parents. And these were and, actually, you do have to love yourself, but I explained what loving yourself really actually means.

And these are the things that are that are important, and they're ongoing, but they're meant to be a sort of guideline. And I, to this day, stand by those truths as as the most important ones. Powerful. I I think I wanna just double click on what you just said, and that mostly the trouble in relationships comes from our mind, not our heart. And that many of us wall off our hearts to protect ourselves from abandonment, pain, suffering loss whatever. And it's very hard to keep your heart open in, one, relationship to your trauma, and two, in relationship to another person, which, you know, you might be projecting things on from your past, or you might, you know, have an actual legitimate problem within the moment.

And so how do you keep your heart open in difficult times? And how do you maintain that when your brain is the mind is the one that's sort of hijacking the narrative? Yeah. It's very difficult. I think one is just to become aware of the fact that you are afraid, that you you know because most people are on autopilot, blocking their hearts, living in their heads. It's and and we talked you know, we at the very beginning, you know, people on YouTube want to know about triggers. If you can first just acknowledge, I am afraid right now that underneath the anger, underneath the trigger, underneath the pulling away all of that, you are afraid.

And what you're afraid of is that you are not good enough and that because you're not a good enough because you're not good enough, you are somehow going to be deprived of love. That is the fear that underlies all problems in relationships. It does not matter who you are. That is the fear that somehow you are inadequate and not gonna be good enough. And there is nothing like a romantic relationship where you love someone and you're attached to someone that exposes that vulnerability and that makes us feel so vulnerable.

And so everyone has these sort of adaptive strategies of how they can not be abandoned or how they cannot be engulfed by the relationship. You know, they're afraid they're gonna lose themselves. And so if they lose themselves and they're actually not going to actually get the love that they want, it all boils down to the one thing that everybody wants, and that's love. Period. End of story. That is it. Yeah. It's where we're all scared little kids trying to get love and messing it up along the way. Yeah. And love is, you know, in the form for some people, that that's in the form of appreciation respect understanding.

All these things are in the umbrella of love. So first, you just have to acknowledge, which is what I start my book with, everything boils down to if you peel away the onion, it's just a it's you are afraid. So to start to get back into your heart I mean, I've I've worked with a lot of people who have been betrayed in relationships or they've been in a some sort of abusive relationship or they lost themselves or they're codependent, whatever it is, like, those kind of problems. And they have to kind of remove themselves from the equation and learn how to have, like, a greater sense of self.

And and they have to protect their hearts because they've opened their hearts to all the wrong people. But if we're just looking at the framework of a relationship, when people can, like, get into their bodies and then the tear the tears start to form, you know, that and they were angry, but the tears then start to form and the vulnerability starts to come out. That's when people bond again. But what's keeping them from bonding is just like, you did this, and and I don't like this. And we're so stuck in here, and we're so closed off in the heart causes all the problems.

And so how do you go back into it? It begins with understanding, okay. I'm afraid right now. Like, this is what's going on with me right now. That's beautiful. That's really beautiful. I mean, I think having that present moment awareness is something also I think you're really talking about because none of this is possible if you don't have a relationship with your mind that is at least aware. It doesn't have to be healthy, but at least you go, oh, jeez. I'm having that stupid thought, or oh, I you know, it's like, sure everybody in life at some point in their life has thought of killing themselves.

You know? Like, this is too hard. I can't take it. And like but you don't do it because you don't believe that. And you go, that's Yes. You know, like, you know, when it's but but on the little stuff, we we just believe it. And so meditation, yoga, different practices can really help to to bring you into the present moment. And it's it's something we don't really value in this culture. It's something we were taught to do. It's not something we learned how to do. Mean, I was lucky. I I majored in Buddhism, and I would do ten day meditation retreats when I was like 18 or 19 years old.

And I it was like I was like, wow. I can sit there for ten days, twelve hours of meditation a day, and I begin to watch the movie that was my mind. And I was like, this is interesting. And I don't have to, you know, I'm like, this is really interesting. And it, you know, it didn't fix everything for me, but it really helped me to kinda create this spaciousness between my thoughts and my and my actions or my words. So I was like, wait a minute. I don't have to not all this is real or or or true. And Yeah. And that's not something that's easy for you to to manage, like that that pause that Viktor Frankl talks about.

Like that that moment where there's a space, and it could be like a millisecond, because usually the the thoughts gets translated into a feeling and to an action or a word in literally milliseconds. So how do you just stretch that out a little bit and not just say stupid shit? By shifting your focus. See, where focus goes, all the energy flows. So from shifting your focus from something you're angry about to something you're grateful about, From shifting your focus from I'm so angry with this person to maybe they're really hurting right now.

Having compassion, empathy. Having compassion. Don't have don't have too much empathy for the person who's harming you, but that all that aside, yeah, compassion, empathy, the ability to put yourself you know, there's that old saying, can you put yourself in someone else's shoes? Well, something that is profoundly impactful in relationships is I, you know, I sometimes I ask someone, I want you to literally step into this person's literally, but as best as you can, step into this person's body. Become them. Step into their nervous system.

Start to breathe like them. Start to stand like them or sit like them, like become them. And I have them close their eyes and really sort of mimic and say and then I ask them, what what does this person believe from their perspective? You're them. You're not you. And that's a very powerful exercise in empathy. But, also, it's also about partnering. It's about I always say there's two there's two keys to a successful relationship. Who you choose, because most people don't choose the right partner, and who you choose to be in that relationship.

Are you the right partner? But a lot of people don't choose. They choose the person who's gonna who's just knows exactly how to poke every single button. And, you know, you can work through that. And if you both are willing to really work through that and and grow spiritually, emotionally, intellectually, and just and just grow. But for people who are, like, single and, like, looking for a relationship, don't go for the person who pushes every single button. Yeah. You gotta fix your picker. My friend once told me Yeah.

You gotta fix your picker. Exactly. You know? That's hard because then that means really getting to know yourself and understanding that probably the person you're attracted to is often not the right person because you're That's not true. You're actually often It's not It's not true? Well I think For me, it's been true. I've, like, I've been picking the wrong people for a long time. And I think that and I think that I I began to break that pattern and fix my picker, and that was really a huge revelation for me. Was like, oh, I'm choosing women who are x y z because that's actually how my mother was.

And so once I unraveled that, I was no longer a prisoner to that. That's what I that's what I meant by it. Yes. That's that is very true. But sometimes you choose the wrong person because you have a misguided under there's so many different reasons why people choose the wrong person. One is is because and I do you wanna go into this? Because I think this might be valuable for your listeners. Yeah. I think it's a good, yeah, it's a good place to because, know, if you're gonna be in a healthy relationship, you have to know how to choose the right person.

So Yeah. And I And people love this. Go for it. Go for it, Julia. So if you are in a place like you were, like, okay. My picker is off. First, I have to just say, yes. That could be true, but always, always consider that it's never just the other person. It's also something that you've been doing in relationships that needs to change. Okay? So I just have to say that because it's very important. But let's just say your picker is off. You are just find yourself attracted to people who don't want you back or who don't treat you well or just like a mismatch for you.

One thing is, like you said, I'm I'm going off like, I have some unfinished business with my mom, and I am seeking out the familiar. And this woman these women who I'm choosing are actually very, very familiar even though they're incredibly wrong for me. So that's very, very true, and that is the theory of all psychologists, and it's and and there's truth to it. It's not the whole story. If you're someone who values looks more than character, then you're gonna keep going for the people who might be really good looking, but you're not taking any time to discover their character.

Mhmm. So that doesn't mean don't value looks, but it means if you want a relationship, you better value character. So there's a lot of people who keep picking the wrong person because they're they do not value or understand the value of a person's character. Then there are people who keep choosing the wrong person because they are not thinking about what it actually takes to build a relationship for the long term. And that if you wanna build a relationship for the long term versus you wanna just have, like, a fling, you need to look for for other things, like alignment in core values, alignment in what a life well lived is, alignment in, you know, this person really complements me.

They have strengths where I have weaknesses and vice versa. So people don't think about these things. Mhmm. And so they keep repeating the same pattern over and over again. Yeah. That's I wanted to add that because I think it's important. No. It's important. Thank you. And I just wanna say everybody, Jillian has a whole wealth of resources out there. So this is just the tip of the iceberg. First, it begins with you. I think that's a very important book you wrote that is out now, and I think everybody should go for sure get a copy.

And they can find you on social media, on your website, and lots of courses. So maybe tell us how they find you on social media, your website, and some of the courses you do so people can actually get some resources. People are listening going, well, that sounds good. Well, now what? And so Yeah. What's the now what? So the now what would be my podcast, Jillian on Love, because I take I basically do solo episodes. I don't really do interviews very much, so I go I go I do deep dives into sort of these theories. The now what obviously is my book.

It begins with you, my my social media, all over social media. And then I, yeah, I have I have courses for heartbreak. Heartbreak. I have courses for choosing the right person. I have courses for couples, and I have a membership for women called the Conscious Women for women who are really trying to break patterns and become them their best selves. You can all find this on my website. Great. And we'll put it all in the show notes. Thank you again for coming on the podcast, for your own discovery that's led to the insights that could help many people in this one area, which many people find challenging.

Anyways, it's even harder than health, you know, for a lot of people. So I I really I think it's really one of the key aspects of health when you look at longevity, when you look at health metrics. Having healthy relationships and social connections is probably as important as what you eat or how much you're exercising or how much you sleep. So it's really one of the core pillars of health and wellness, and I really appreciate your work and what you've done, and everybody definitely check out Julian's work, and thank you again for doing what you do.

Oh, thank you, Mark. Thank you for doing what you do and it's been a pleasure to talk to you today. Jillian gave us so many tools for improving our relationships. What's the one idea you're gonna try in your own life? Let me know in the comments below. If you love that last video, you're gonna love the next one. Check it out here.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Why Love Feels So Hard - And How to Finally Feel Safe in Your Relationship"?

In order: 0:00 It Begins With You, Doctor Hyman Show, Jillian Tarecki; 1:00:00 It Begins With You, Conscious Women.

What is mentioned in this Mark Hyman, MD episode?

4 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including It Begins With You, Jillian Tarecki, Doctor Hyman Show, Conscious Women. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Why Love Feels So Hard - And How to Finally Feel Safe in Your Relationship"?

The episode runs 1 h 4 min; the transcript is about 11,687 words in 110 timestamped sections.

More from Mark Hyman, MD

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.