Transcript

What Ben Franklin and Thomas Paine Would Think About America in 2026, with Jonathan Turley

From Megyn Kelly · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 10 min · 1,735 words · 16 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "What Ben Franklin and Thomas Paine Would Think About America in 2026, with Jonathan Turley", an episode of Megyn Kelly published February 3, 2026 (10 min, about 1,735 words). It mentions 10 people, works and ideas, including Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin), Thomas Paine, Common Sense, Rage of the Republic, Nature Journal of Medicine.

What this episode is about

The discussion explores the perspectives of historical figures Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Paine on contemporary America, highlighting their potential reactions to modern societal issues such as immigration and cultural behaviors. It examines Paine's transformative journey from failure to key revolutionary figure, emphasizing Franklin's role in recognizing and nurturing his talents, while reflecting on how the founders would likely be shocked by the current state of the nation.

Key takeaways

  • Franklin would likely be aghast at today's Puritanical irony: skin is in, but liberties are on the decline.
  • Common Sense ignited a revolution; today's polarized America may be crying out for its own revolutionary voice.
  • The French Revolution consumed its leaders; will today's ideological factions minimize dissent or devour their own?
  • Franklin saw potential in failure; today's leaders might overlook genius hidden behind perceived inadequacies and failures.
  • From Enlightenment ideals to calls for constitutional amendments, are we edging toward an era of governance by emotion?

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 3:00: Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin), Common Sense, Thomas Paine, James Madison
  2. – 6:00: Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin)
  3. – 9:00: Rage of the Republic, Nature Journal of Medicine, Congressman Adam Smith
  4. – 10:17: Birch Gold Group

Notable quotes from "What Ben Franklin and Thomas Paine Would Think About America in 2026, with Jonathan Turley"

  • You can't have an illegal on a land that is stolen. Like I just think these founders, you write a lot about James Madison in the book, wouldn't believe their eyes or ears. And…
    about James Madison · at
  • Individual was called a drunkard. He was unkempt. He was a total failure. And Benjamin Franklin saw something in him and sent him to the United States to write. And he ended up…
    about Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin) · at
  • One of the things I argue for in the book is that we need to rediscover what I call a liberty enhancing economy. The book is an unabashed case for capitalism which is also.
    about Rage of the Republic · at
  • That gold has risen over 700% in the last 20 years and a never- ending list of reasons smart Americans diversify a portion of their savings into precious metals with Birch Gold…
    about Birch Gold Group · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin) — Person · Referenced founder / historical lens · 5 mentions · first at
    Used as a key Founding-era reference point (and as a character in the discussed book) to contrast early American values with modern politics/culture; also credited with recognizing Thomas Paine’s talent and sending him to America.
  • Thomas Paine — Person · Referenced revolutionary writer / central figure in discussed book · 2 mentions · first at
    Presented as the narrative vehicle for exploring revolutionary history; credited with writing 'Common Sense' and helping catalyze the American Revolution, with a parallel role in the French Revolution.
    And within two years, he was called the penman of the revolution. There was only one person who saw anything in that mound of wreckage, and that was a man he ran into in London, Benjamin Franklin.
  • James Madison — Person · Referenced founder / constitutional framer · 1 mention · first at
    Invoked as an example of a founder whose views (as described in the guest’s book) would clash with contemporary political/cultural developments; used to anchor discussion of constitutional principles and limited government.
  • Congressman Adam Smith — Person · Referenced economist / intellectual foundation for capitalism · 1 mention · first at
    Cited to connect the Founding era’s political theory with economic theory; 'Wealth of Nations' is framed as a companion to the founders’ liberty project via economic independence.
    Realize is that in 1776, same year as the Declaration of Independence, you had the publication of Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith. Now, it was not a big success in Great…
  • Marcus de Lafayette — Person · Referenced revolutionary figure (US & France) · 1 mention · first at
    Named as the other major figure (besides Paine) who played a significant role in both the American and French Revolutions, supporting the episode’s comparison of the two revolutions.
    Only two figures that played a big great role in both the American and French Revolutions. The other being Lafayette.
  • John Quincy Adams — Person · Referenced founder / critic of Paine · 1 mention · first at
    Used to show that even Paine’s critics recognized his talent; Adams is described as disliking/being jealous of Paine yet conceding Paine’s 'genius.'
    Way, John Adams, who didn't like Payne, sort of jealous of Payne because he was a newcomer, admitted to his wife that in the first meeting with Payne, there was a recollection…

Books & papers

  • Common Sense — Book · Referenced work · 2 mentions · first at
    Highlighted as a pivotal work that influenced the American Revolution.
    Failure. And Benjamin Franklin saw something in him and sent him to the United States to write. And he ended up writing the first bestseller, Common Sense, that was credited by…
  • Rage of the Republic — Book · Referenced work · 3 mentions · first at
    Discussed in the context of exploring the principles of the American Revolution and their relevance today.
  • Nature Journal of Medicine — Book · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as a foundational economic text that complemented the political theories of the American founders.
    Under attack. What many people don't realize is that in 1776, same year as the Declaration of Independence, you had the publication of Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith. Now, it…

Sponsors

  • Birch Gold Group — Company · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at
    Promoted as a service for diversifying savings into precious metals.

Full transcript with timestamps

I'm actually in the middle of a Ben Franklin Ben Franklin biography, the one by Isaac.

And it's really good and it it has me asking all the time, God, what would he think if he could see the nation now? You know, he was he was a Puritan. He wasn't really into it, but he was part of um that tradition. And you know, you forget about how puritanical we were and how that word has become universally referred to as negative because they were so judgmental. He wasn't. He was much more relaxed. But just you look around the country today, we just finished with the Grammys where everybody's half naked with their body completely exposed and the way they behave up there and calling for us to allow all the immigrants in because no, you can't have an illegal on a land that is stolen. Like I just think these founders, you write a lot about James Madison uh in the book, wouldn't believe their eyes or ears. And I think quite frankly they'd be horrified. Well, Megan, I'm so glad that you raised

Benjamin Franklin, who plays a big role in the book. The book actually explores uh much of this this history through the eyes of Thomas Payne, who was one of only two figures that played a big great role in both the American and French Revolutions. The other being Lafayette. But it really looks at Payne who may be the quintessential American. You know, he arrived on these shores a human wreck. He had to be carried off the ship. He had failed in everything he had ever tried in his life, from marriages to being fired at every job. And yet he arrived two years before the Declaration of Independence.

And within two years, he was called the penman of the revolution. There was only one person who saw anything in that mound of wreckage, and that was a man he ran into in London, Benjamin Franklin. and he looked at this pennile individual was called a drunkard. He was unkempt. He was he was he was a total failure. And Benjamin Franklin saw something in him and sent him to the United States to write. And he ended up writing the first bestseller, Common Sense, that was credited by many with being the spark that caused the American Revolution. Even his critics, by the way, John Adams, who didn't like Payne, sort of jealous of Payne because he was a newcomer, admitted to his wife that in the first meeting with Payne, there was a recollection that there was this odd writer that had quote genius in his eyes. And I think that's what Benjamin Franklin saw in London.

Yeah. Payne, who like people were kind of talking about revolution but not taking it seriously. And then he wrote Common Sense. That thing caught fire and gave real voice to it in a way that would be critical to the actualization of us leaving and declaring ourselves an independent nation and throwing off the reigns of the king. Um, so what do you like what do you think, Jonathan? Because when I look around today more and more I hear people jokingly but like kind of wistfully saying we need to break up all over again. We like we're so different left and right in this country now. There's really no common ground. We really should be two Americas now. There should be a red America and a blue America because we can't even understand the other side. We're getting shot and killed by the other side if if you're a conservative.

Yeah. The you know the book looks at what I call the rise of the new jackabens. And you know the original jackabens were much like those today. They were not the proletariat. They were the aristocrats. They were

but explain who they were. The jackabids the French Revolution was led by the Jacabins who created the terror and these were professors and they were low-level aristocrats and they were journalists and they unleashed the terror guillotining um people left and right. Thousands were put to death and ultimately the Jacabins themselves fell victim to their own rage. You know, the book starts with a quote from one of the you could say he was the Thomas Payne of the French Revolution and they asked him uh you know what did you do during the revolution? He said I survived which was a rare thing because you know I I quote another Frenchman who said that revolution is like Saturn. It devours its own. Well the French Revolution did devour its own. All of those Jacabans called the mountain were executed. You know, Ropes, Pierre, Morat, all of them ended up dying. And the book asks why why did the American

Revolution become a stable democracy? And why did this become a bloodletting? Well, I asked that same question with the new Jacabans who are coming from many of the same class structure. And you have even the dean of Berkeley Law School saying the American Constitution is a failure. One of my colleagues wants to amend the first amendment because she says it's too aggressively individualistic which is the point. It is right because the one thing the the book points out is that we were the enlightenment revolution. We were the first revolution of the enlightenment and it was based on this idea that we deserved we we demanded rights given to us by God not by the government. these natural rights.

No revolution had ever been fought on that basis. H it's interesting right now I'm gonna I'm just at the beginning of the book and they're writing about how Franklin worked for his older brother on um a newspaper that he started called the I think the New England Kurant and that that newspaper and his older brother who Benjamin Franklin did not like

um was very much skeptical of government very much not wanted not wanting to be controlled by government um wanted to get those reigns off of us and even though Benjamin frankly didn't wind up liking this brother who was very tough on him. He appears to have inherited or at least shared that trait with him in a way that would become very important to the way we live our lives even to this moment. And that I I just feel like between the Biden administration for the right and now the Trump administration for the left, I think there's a very strong strain of American that wants a smaller executive and wants less governmental power over our lives. But no matter how much we say that, we seem to go the opposite direction these days.

So, do you think we'll ever get back to the point where we have a small government and we certainly have a small executive branch with as little power as possible over us?

Well, you know, Rage of the Republic addresses that and and and asks whether we can return to first principles and one of the those principles is that all rights like government should be local, held closest to the people. That includes reinforcing federalism and state rights against the national government. It also means opposing global governance systems like the EU. Also what I call corporate feudalism, these large corporations that control much of social media. We have to we have to resist these efforts to globalize democracy and then kill democracy. Now that can actually be done because it's in our DNA. Uh if you look at at at the founders, they believe strongly in this.

One of the things I argue for in the book is that we need to rediscover what I call a liberty enhancing economy. The book is an unabashed uh case for capitalism which is also under attack. What many people don't realize is is that in 1776, same year as the Declaration of Independence, you had the publication of Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith. Now, it was not a big success in Great Britain, but it was a success here. The founders recognized his economic theory as the perfect companion to their political theory because they believed that you couldn't have true liberty, true independence, unless you had economic independence. So, one of the things I address in in Rage of the Republic is when we have the combination of robotics and AI, we're looking at a massive loss of jobs and we also look at the possibility of a large unemployed population and the book explores what does that do to a citizen's relationship to the state

because the framers didn't want that. you know, if you you can't have a kept population without having citizens begin to change their view of the state. And so what the book talks about is how we can can preserve a libertyenhancing economy to make sure that people do not develop that dependency or become some types of art.

Well, they are right. I mean, we're already seeing that in some pockets. International disputes, inflation, rising national debt, digital currency. There is a never- ending list of reasons that gold has risen over 700% in the last 20 years and a never- ending list of reasons smart Americans diversify a portion of their savings into precious metals with Birch Gold Group. Gold can thrive during uncertainty, which is why it's a crucial part of a balance strategy. It gives you peace of mind given all the events that could impact the US economy. See if holding gold in a tax sheltered retirement account is right for you.

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Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "What Ben Franklin and Thomas Paine Would Think About America in 2026, with Jonathan Turley"?

Megyn Kelly (Guest), Jonathan Turley (Guest).

What is "What Ben Franklin and Thomas Paine Would Think About America in 2026, with Jonathan Turley" about?

The discussion explores the perspectives of historical figures Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Paine on contemporary America, highlighting their potential reactions to modern societal issues such as immigration and cultural behaviors. It examines Paine's transformative journey from failure to key revolutionary figure, emphasizing Franklin's role in recognizing and nurturing his talents, while…

What is mentioned in this Megyn Kelly episode?

10 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin), Thomas Paine, Common Sense, Rage of the Republic, Nature Journal of Medicine, James Madison. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "What Ben Franklin and Thomas Paine Would Think About America in 2026, with Jonathan Turley"?

The episode runs 10 min; the transcript is about 1,735 words in 16 timestamped sections.

More from Megyn Kelly

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated February 3, 2026.