LIVE: ICE LAWSUIT MAJOR UPDATE + EPSTEIN FILES BOMBSHELL | Legal AF

What this episode is about

The main topic centers on the legal and ethical implications surrounding the murder of Renee Good by an ICE agent, which has sparked protests and resignation threats among career prosecutors. Additionally, the discussion highlights a new lawsuit by the Minnesota Attorney General, ongoing legal battles involving ICE's conduct, and a high-profile case concerning the rights of a transgender high school athlete in West Virginia.

Key takeaways

• The murder of Renee Good highlights the perilous intersection of law enforcement and political accountability.
• Trump's administration may be walking a tightrope; even Senate Republicans are distancing themselves in fear of fallout.
• While the DOJ burns, paradoxically, its quest to target judges shows a desperate strategy to cling to power.
• Transgender women's sports participation ignites America; hope shatters as courts tip the balance toward exclusion.
• Universities under scrutiny for ties to Epstein illustrate a disturbing trend—tuition fees could mask sinister agendas.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Michael Popok (Host) · 49 min speaking
• Karen Freeman Noll (Guest) · 33 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Renee Mlin Good, Protest, Department of Justice, Donald Trump
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Renee Mlin Good, Civil Rights Division, Department of Justice, Protest
3. 20:00 – 30:00: Kate Blanch, Department of Justice, Donald Trump, Renee Mlin Good
4. 30:00 – 40:00: Donald Trump, Kate Blanch, American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), Epstein scandal
5. 40:00 – 50:00: Donald Trump, Federal Reserve, Jay Powell, Transgender Rights
6. 50:00 – 1:00:00: Donald Trump, Federal Reserve, Jay Powell, David J. Novak
7. 1:00:00 – 1:10:00: Department of Justice, David J. Novak, Wall Street Journal, Judge Novak
8. 1:10:00 – 1:20:00: Department of Justice, Donald Trump
9. 1:20:00 – 1:22:23: Protest

Notable quotes from "LIVE: ICE LAWSUIT MAJOR UPDATE + EPSTEIN FILES BOMBSHELL | Legal AF"

• That now lingers over the White House once again with yet another scandal as the Department of Justice in Washington led by Donald Trump and for a little while longer. Anyway…

  about Department of Justice · at 0:29

• That's going to crack the Trump administration wide open already fissured by the Epstein scandal cover up? and we'll talk about a new lawsuit filed by the Minnesota Attorney General, the judge who's handling two major cases, the only two.

  about Epstein scandal · at 1:22

• Transgender community. We'll talk about that here. it has gone well for our economy and its stability and keeping a hold of Federal Reserve Chairman Jay Powell. He's gone into dark Powell mode.

  about Jay Powell · at 2:43

• Take many forms. And you're you're allowed to peaceibly assemble. That's in the first amendment, right? And so as a prosecutor at the Manhattan DA's office for three decades…

  about Karen Freeman Nippol · at 9:12

• Great overview. I'm no longer worried about who's going to be the break on an outofcontrol lawless department of justice because now there are matters that are of a smaller…

  about Lawlessness · at 16:30

• Founded in 1957 during the civil rights movement, we proudly investigated and prosecuted the killers of Medgar Evers and Martin Luther King Jr. and the Jewish election workers who went.

  about Civil Rights Division · at 19:58

• Donald Trump is his own attorney general as we've seen and Todd Blanch is complicit just the same way Pam Bondi. In fact, he's at least more confident that she is. But I don't think.

  about Donald Trump · at 30:50

• Led by Janine Piro's office, the US attorney's office, and they've issued criminal subpoenas to the Federal Reserve and Jay Powell about the cost overruns, mind you, for the…

  about Federal Reserve · at 49:24

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Donald Trump — Person · Core topic / primary subject of criticism · 24 mentions · first at 0:12
  Portrayed as directing DOJ actions, escalating "lawlessness," targeting prosecutors, judges, and Jay Powell, and being implicated in the Epstein cover-up narrative.
• Renee Mlin Good — Person · Central referenced victim / catalyst event · 11 mentions · first at 0:20
  Her killing by an ICE agent is framed as the triggering event for mass prosecutor resignations and Minnesota protests, and as evidence of federal lawlessness and cover-up.
  Attack on victims. I think we finally have seen the last straw and that is the murder of Renee Good at the hands of an ICE agent. And not just the murder, but the now the cover…
• Karen Freeman Nippol — Person · Co-host / main panelist · 1 mention · first at 6:20
  Provides prosecutorial perspective on Minnesota protests, fatality investigations, DOJ ethics, and Epstein file handling.
• Kate Blanch — Person · Referenced DOJ leader / subject of criticism · 10 mentions · first at 0:38
  Presented as a key Trump-aligned DOJ actor: pushing aggressive actions, involved in Epstein filings, and potentially replacing Bondi; criticized for outcome-driven announcements.
  The Department of Justice in Washington led by Donald Trump and for a little while longer. Anyway, Pam Bondi and Todd Blanch go after the victim, the victim's family, the…
• Jay Powell — Person · Core topic / defended public official · 8 mentions · first at 2:53
  Framed as resisting Trump pressure and DOJ threats; his response is described as stabilizing markets and reinforcing Federal Reserve independence.
• Judge Kate Mendez — Person · Referenced judge / key decision-maker · 1 mention · first at 1:47
  Identified as handling the two major Minnesota ICE cases, including a First Amendment protester class action and Minnesota AG lawsuit seeking restraints on ICE tactics.
  Major cases in Minnesota about ISIS's lawlessness, its abuse of First Amendment protester, Judge Kate Mendez, and the fate of Pam Bondi in all of this. also on Legal AF at the midweek, the oral argument for the this poor, defenseless,.
• David J. Novak — Person · Referenced judge / target of DOJ criticism · 6 mentions · first at 4:33
  Presented as issuing an order to show cause regarding Halligan’s conduct; DOJ response is framed as an attack on judicial authority.
  Is this you must not have read the second half of his order which was explain to me why you haven't violated five or six different profession rules of professional…
• Judge Angelmire — Person · Referenced judge in Epstein matter · 1 mention · first at 5:05
  Described as considering appointing a special master/monitor due to DOJ delays and credibility issues in producing Epstein documents.
  Angelmire one step closer based on his new order in appointing a special master or an independent monitor? He wants to hear from the victims and the survivors. will they step…
• Becky Pepper Jackson (person) — Person · Duplicate entity label · 1 mention
  Duplicate of 'Becky Pepper Jackson' already captured.
• Judge Angelmire (person) — Person · Duplicate entity label · 1 mention
  Duplicate of 'Judge Angelmire' already captured.
• Judge Kate Mendez (person) — Person · Duplicate entity label · 1 mention
  Duplicate of 'Judge Kate Mendez' already captured.
• Judge Novak (person) — Person · Duplicate entity label · 1 mention
  Duplicate of 'Judge Novak' already captured.

Companies & orgs

• Department of Justice — Company · Core topic / criticized institution · 17 mentions · first at 0:34
  Depicted as politicized and "in flames," allegedly covering up Renee Good’s killing, attacking judges, mishandling Epstein files, and pursuing politically motivated investigations.
• Federal Reserve — Company · Core topic institution · 12 mentions · first at 2:53
  Central to discussion of Trump/DOJ pressure, alleged grand jury subpoenas, and the importance of central bank independence.
• Civil Rights Division — Company · Core topic / criticized DOJ component · 5 mentions · first at 1:05
  Discussed as suffering resignations and alleged politicization; contrasted with its historic mission during the Civil Rights Movement.
• American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) — Company · Referenced legal advocate / contributor · 3 mentions · first at 33:02
  Credited with handling Becky Pepper Jackson’s case and described as joining Legal AF as a contributor for reporting on rule-of-law defense cases.
  Good stuff. So, we got that. New contributors to Legal A for 2026, the American Civil Liberties Union has joined. Their first video will go up, I believe, this week, for…
• Minnesota Attorney General — Company · Referenced plaintiff authority · 2 mentions · first at 1:34
  Office filed a lawsuit to restrain ICE tactics in Minnesota; associated with Keith Ellison in the discussion.
  To setting up the briefing schedule and now the ultimate temporary restraining order on behalf of the state of Minnesota who filed their suit under Keith Ellison's office to…
• Senate Banking Committee — Company · Referenced oversight body · 2 mentions · first at 3:41
  Discussed as Senate Republicans threatening to block Trump’s Fed chair nominee unless pressure on Jay Powell stops.
  Republicans, especially those on the Senate Banking Committee, abandon Donald Trump and threaten to block his nominee for the Fed chair unless they get off of J. Pal's back.…
• NYU — Company · Referenced institution under investigation · 1 mention · first at 5:50
  Discussed alongside Columbia as potentially complicit in Epstein-related tuition overpayment/refund mechanisms described as money laundering.
  With Jeffrey Epstein as a honeypot to convince young girls that in return for tuition to be paid to those universities, these young girls would be raped and be child sex…
• Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) — Company · Referenced investigative body · 2 mentions
  Mentioned as potentially involved in leaks and criticized as untrustworthy under current leadership ("FBI").

Concepts & topics

• Epstein scandal — Concept · Core topic / ongoing controversy · 3 mentions · first at 1:28
  Used to frame DOJ credibility crisis, missing/late document production, potential special master appointment, and university complicity allegations.
• Protest — Concept · Core topic · 9 mentions · first at 0:08
  Used to compare historic protest policing (e.g., Occupy Wall Street) with alleged escalation and lethal force in Minnesota.
  We were wondering on legal a what would be the last straw for career prosecutors to resign on mosque to protest the Trump administration's lawlessness its attack on victims. I…
• Lawlessness — Concept · Core framing concept · 5 mentions · first at 0:12
  Repeated descriptor for DOJ/ICE conduct and Trump administration behavior; anchors the episode’s moral and legal critique.
• Transgender Rights — Concept · Core topic · 2 mentions · first at 45:13
  Discussed through the Becky Pepper Jackson case and criticism of Supreme Court and MAGA framing; portrayed as a marginalized group needing constitutional protection.
  Athletes to put them in their own league. So what you're saying is it's okay to deny them the ability to participate in sport at the high school and lower level in 25 states.…
• Federal Reserve Chairman — Concept · Role concept central to Powell discussion · 4 mentions · first at 2:53
  Used to frame the independence and vulnerability of the Fed chair position amid alleged DOJ threats and political pressure.
  That here. it has gone well for our economy and its stability and keeping a hold of Federal Reserve Chairman Jay Powell. He's gone into dark Powell mode.
• Criminal Investigations — Concept · Supporting concept · 2 mentions · first at 3:19
  Discussed as allegedly weaponized by DOJ (e.g., against Jay Powell, widow of Renee Good) and contrasted with proper fatality investigations.
  The District of Columbia, saying out loud, We didn't want a subpoena. We didn't want to have grand jury doing criminal investigations of our my impersonation of a Federal Reserve chairman, but they left us no choice.
• Criminal Prosecution — Concept · Supporting concept · 3 mentions · first at 3:32
  Raised in context of threats against Jay Powell and broader DOJ weaponization concerns.
  See what Donald Trump is do trying to do to Powell and how Piro is trying to threaten him with a grand jury investigation and criminal prosecution.
• Civil Rights Movement — Concept · Historical reference point · 1 mention · first at 19:51
  Invoked to contrast the Civil Rights Division’s historic mission with its alleged current politicization.
  Founded in 1957 during the civil rights movement, we proudly investigated and prosecuted the killers of Medgar Evers and Martin Luther King Jr. and the Jewish election workers who went.
• Judge Novak — Concept · Incorrect type in prompt; treated as person above · 5 mentions · first at 4:33
  Handled under person entity.
  Curry back in November the 24th. and they decided that they were going to respond to Judge Novak's order to show cause about why Lindseay Hallan shouldn't have her bar license…

Places & events

• West Virginia — Place · Referenced location · 2 mentions · first at 2:03
  Setting of the Becky Pepper Jackson transgender sports case discussed at the Supreme Court.
  She you know that's it. She just wants to participate in collegiate sports and the entire state of West Virginia passed a law to ban her. and MAGA then jumped on board with the…
• Occupy Wall Street — Event · Historical comparison event · 2 mentions · first at 9:33
  Used as an example of mass protest policing without lethal force, contrasting with Minnesota events.
  Down the Brooklyn Bridge. We had people who would chain themselves to trees in a park in the park during Occupy Wall Street. We had people who protesting all sorts of issues. I…

Media & podcasts

• Wall Street Journal — Media · Referenced reporting source · 4 mentions · first at 5:24
  Cited for bombshell reporting about Epstein-related university investigations and for earlier breaking news on Fed subpoenas.
  Give their opinion about this? And then we've got brand new reporting just hit the Wall Street Journal and the House Judiciary Committee led by Jamie Raskin, the Democrats…
• New York Times — Media · Referenced reporting source · 2 mentions · first at 49:20
  Mentioned as part of the outlets reporting on the Jay Powell/Federal Reserve subpoena story.
  Over. And so I was working on a story and then the bombshell hit, Wall Street Journal and New York Times. There's an open grand jury led by Janine Piro's office, the US attorney's office, and they've issued criminal subpoenas to the Federal.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:02 We were wondering on legal a what would be the last straw for career prosecutors uh to resign on mosque to protest the Trump administration's lawlessness its attack on victims. I think we finally have seen the last straw and that is the murder of Renee Good at the hands of an ICE agent. And not just the murder, but the now the cover up of the stench that that now lingers over the White House once again with yet another scandal as the Department of Justice in Washington led by Donald Trump and for a little while longer. Anyway, Pam Bondi and Todd Blanch go after the victim, the victim's family, the grieving widow of Renee Good. Um, and now we've got no less than over a dozen prosecutors in both the US Attorney's Office of Minnesota, led by the US Attorney and in the once proud but now fouled Civil Rights Division Criminal Section of the Department of Justice.

1:10 And uh, forget about Minnesota nice. We're now at Minnesota ICE as protesters have hit the streets to protest in the memory of Renee Good. Is this the thing that's going to crack the Trump administration wide open already fissured by the Epstein scandal cover up? Um, and we'll talk about a new lawsuit filed by the uh Minnesota Attorney General, the judge who's handling two major cases, the only two major cases in Minnesota about ISIS's lawlessness, its abuse of First Amendment protester, Judge Kate Mendez, um, and the fate of Pam Bondi in all of this. Uh, also on Legal AF at the midweek, the oral the oral argument for the this poor, defenseless, now 15-year-old West Virginia high school student who just wants to be on her track and field team. She's the only openly transgender athlete in the entire state of West Virginia. And yet MAGA treated it like it was their Super Bowl to try to crush the hopes and dreams

2:22 of uh of Becky Pepper Jackson. Um this brave she started out as an 11-year-old in this case. Uh and it went up to the United States Supreme Court. And I'm not going to steal I'm not going to um uh ruin the headline, but it didn't go well for people that want to protect fragile and disadvantaged people who are powerless in our society like the transgender community. We'll talk about that here. Uh it has gone well for our economy and its stability and keeping a hold of Federal Reserve Chairman Jay Powell. He's gone into dark Powell mode.

2:59 Remember dark Biden mode with laser beams coming out of his eyeballs fighting back against the Trump administration in a way that I'm sure they miscalculated and didn't think would happen. And now even the Trump administration is is starting to walk it back. Janine Piro, the US attorney for the District of Columbia, saying out loud, "We didn't want a subpoena. We didn't want to have grand jury doing criminal investigations of our of our my impersonation of a Federal Reserve chairman, but they left us no choice. They weren't responding to our emails, and that's why you were willing to wreck the US and global economy." This is a win for J. Pal. We'll talk more about it and what happens next. Senate Republicans, especially those on the Senate Banking Committee, abandon Donald Trump and threaten to block his nominee for the Fed chair unless they get off of J. Pal's back. Uh when in doubt, and as

3:54 the Department of Justice is in flames, the dumpster fire that is now the the once proud Department of Justice, um yet they still seem to have um enough energy to take another page out of their playbook. Let's attack another federal judge. This time a Trump appointed one for having the tmerity to question why Lindseay Halakan continues to impersonate badge and all. I'm sure a US attorney when she was fired from that position and a vacancy created by Judge Curry back in November the 24th. Um, and they decided that they were going to respond to Judge Novak's order to show cause about why Lindseay Hallan shouldn't have her bar license removed and be and be sent for sanctions related to unethical conduct, but they ended up attacking Judge Novak. What else? And we've got finally, we've got developments in the Epstein files. Um, are we one step closer to a federal judge taking control of the process, no

4:57 longer believing the Department of Justice, who are now a month late in producing documents? The incredible the incredible vanishing several million pages or documents in the case. Is Judge Angelmire one step closer based on his new order in um appointing a special master or an independent monitor? He wants to hear from the victims and the survivors. will they step forward and give their opinion about this? And then we've got brand new reporting just hit the Wall Street Journal and the House Judiciary Committee led by Jamie Raskin, the Democrats anyway, that they're uh they're opening up an investigation into two major universities, one Ivy League in New York, Colombia, and NYU, because apparently they looks like they were may have been used complicit or otherwise with Jeffrey Epstein as a honeypot to convince young girls that in return for tuition to be paid to those universities, these young girls would

5:54 would be raped and be child sex traffked by Jeffrey Epstein. Did the universities much the way banks did, did they know about it? Did they know about the overpayments of tuition that ended up being reimbursed and paid to these victims? Yes. Money laundering through major universities. And we'll talk about that as well with my illust I was going to say illustrious. That's the right term. my illustrious colleague Karen Freeman Nippol here on Legal After the Midweek. Hi Karen.

6:26 Hi Popa. Great to see you. How are you doing? Doing I'm doing great. Just sort of, you know, up to our we're up to our up to our necks and alligators every day there's a new We can only do so much on the show. We could literally make this an entire day streaming live podcast. I cut out about four or five other major stories, including Supreme Court decisions that, you know, just didn't make the cut. And, you know, we we're trying to be judicious with our time and respectful of the time of our audience. But, but I'm so glad you're here. Many of the stories today touch on prosecutors and their integrity and their ethics and their devotion to the rule of law and to the Constitution and oath and rules of professional responsibility. So certainly right up your alley as an almost 30 year or 30-year prosecutor. So why don't we dive in? I mean, the Midas Touch Network has done a great job running live feeds with

7:22 its collaborate collaborator partners of what's happening every night in Minnesota, the protest at the Ice Hotel, so to speak. And we now have new reporting. I'll kick it off this way. We now have new reporting, a leak. I don't know if it came from just so sleuththing by media or the FBI and DOJ thought this was helpful to them, but you know, Renee Good murdered was on her school board of a very small charter school in the south side of Minneapolis, a school based on its own credo on its website devoted to social justice who had put uh newsletters together and other sort of mini manuals together about how to peace peacefully resist and peaceibly resist uh the ICE brutality on the streets of Minnesota in a way to get into good trouble lawfully and express themselves from a first amendment rights standpoint. Renee Good on the board of that particular school morning she dropped off her six-year-old and then

8:26 never came home that night after being murdered by ICE. This got leaked. It certainly proves that she's not a left-wing agitator, domestic terrorist of any kind. Let's take it. You haven't really been on since Renee went the Renee Good murder went down. So talk talk to our audience about what you're observing in Minnesota and then let's segue into the prosecutors resigning in mass in protest about how her memory and her widow are being treated.

8:55 Yeah. I mean, what's going on in Minnesota is really unlike anything I've ever seen before because it has been since the beginning of time, peaceful protests occur, right? There's a right to peacefully protest. That's what our first amendment guarantees and that can take many forms. And you're you're allowed to peaceibly assemble. That's in the first amendment, right? And so as a prosecutor at the Manhattan DA's office for three decades, as you said, we were dealt with we dealt with mass protests all the time. We had people who had shut down the Brooklyn Bridge. We had people who would chain themselves to trees in a park in the park during Occupy Wall Street. We had people who protesting all sorts of issues. I remember grandmothers who were protesting something in the war and they were blocking the street and there were people who were handcuffing themselves together and handcuffing themselves to railings and all kinds of

9:49 things that that block traffic that do things that you're not allowed to do because you're not allowed to obstruct governmental administration is what they call it in New York. And people would get arrested for it. But we never had a situation where anyone got shot and killed for it or anyone got forcibly in any way hurt or removed for it. Even Occupy Wall Street, which was a huge huge mass protest that occurred in a park called Zucati Park here in Manhattan where people were setting up camp and uh etc. for months and when the NYPD eventually and they refused to disperse and they were taking over property and you know that went beyond the first amendment implication. It went beyond it. It was they were blocking uh and refusing lawful law enforcement commands to disperse which one could make an argument in Minnesota that Renee Good was doing right because of her car they could make an argument that she was

10:45 blocking the street and although it's unclear whether ICE or Department of Homeland Security is allowed to enforce local law enforcement rules like blocking traffic etc. That has to be determined. But again, what they would do is do it in a way that is safe, that doesn't harm anyone, that doesn't hurt anyone, and certainly doesn't get to the point where it has gotten with Renee good. So, it it really kind of just shows how having federal agents occupying cities, they're just not trained to deescalate. They're not trained on how to peacefully remove someone without loss of life the way local law enforcement is trained to do.

11:27 And again, I'm not even conceding that Renee Good was doing that other than it looked to me like she was trying to move the car out of the way as what she was directed to do, right? To leave the scene. And it looks like the wheels of her tires were moving in that direction. And it also looks like the ICE officer put his body in front of the car. And if there was any contact with his body, it was because of where he put his body. She was trying to get away the way they told her to to move. So, so, but one thing that's clear to me is we don't know. We don't know what happened because what they're not doing is a fatality investigation, which is what is supposed to happen. Something I've also been involved in many, many times.

12:12 Whenever there's a law enforcement involved fatality, you investigate it. And sometimes you investigate it jointly with the feds. It depends on on what the issue is, but you you investigate it. You do an independent investigation that involves talking to other officers who are there, talking to the officer who fired their weapon, doing things like looking at the autopsy, which bullet killed her, for example, because you have to look at each shot individually, because maybe one was justified, but two and three weren't, you know, because at that point, and you look at each use of force individually, but it's a painstaking, lengthy investigation that looks at everything from policies of the of ICE and the Department of Homeland Security to whether they were allowed to enforce these local laws to begin with, of use of force, of what exactly happened, what caused her death. I'm sure there's other videos that haven't

13:03 been released to the public, but that's another thing that a joint investigation would do. And ICE has literally iced out the Minnesota local government, and they are not conducting a joint investigation. And what's really unbelievable to me is that the federal federal prosecutors, not even the local prosecutors, the federal prosecutors in Minnesota who are are resigning in mass because of how this investigation or this non-investigation into this fatality is occurring. And it really seems like they aren't interested in getting to the bottom of it. Right. You had you had Trump and Vance and others, Gnome, you had them coming out in the beginning on day one saying she tried to hit him with the car that he was justified. How can they possibly know that before a wholesome investigation is conducted? Makes no sense to me that they could make such a statement before that. And certainly it contradicts what

13:57 we all see with our own two eyes looking at these videos. certainly doesn't look justified or certainly doesn't look justified enough that you would say that, you know, if if you had a a clear video of someone ra, you know, putting on the the gas and and ramming trying to ram a police officer and the police officers, you know, can't move out of the way and shoot someone. You know, maybe in that clear scenario, you might say it looks like from preliminarily it looks justified. But from the video we've seen so far, there is a major question about whether this was justified under under the law. Right?

14:34 And so for them to come out and say that on day one really just indicates that they're not interested in uh in an impartial investigation. They're not interested in getting to the truth of what actually happened. And what they are interested in doing is defending ICE and their operations at all costs. And no matter who asks, that's what they say. They have all have the talking points. And the other thing that's really disturbing and that really is upsetting is they're going now after uh the widow of of um the deceased, right?

15:07 They're going after the widow who's trying to take care of this poor six-year-old child that they shared uh you know who just lost her his mother. uh going after her and and and trying to build some kind of case against her, saying that they were domestic terrorists and and frankly really anyone who is a Democrat, anyone who believes is is is anti-MAGA, anti-ICE, somehow is a radical cult, you know, lunatic, whatever, fascist uh domestic terrorist. And these that's the kind of language they're using. And so they're going after her instead of investigating what really happened. And and that's looks like that is what caused the mass resignation both at the civil rights division and uh and the prosecutors in Minnesota. And frankly, I say good for them for for doing that, for resigning in protest, for not refusing to engage in this type of activity, and um for standing up for what's right. makes me

16:06 worried because who who's left to prosecute cases? Who's left with a level head that's going to be a check on on this these political persecutions and things that are going on in the department current department of justice? But but that that's what I see when I look at that case. I see a rush to judgment and uh and one that's not really caring about what actually happened.

16:28 I I am no longer Yeah, I think that's a great overview. I'm no longer worried about who's going to be the break on an outofcontrol lawless department of justice because now there are matters that are of a smaller nature that I'm sure somebody on the inside who's not a MAGA can influence. I mean, you know, micro decisions that are made every day. But on the most important cases, the matter of the American people, Trump and his as his as his own um attorney general and and for the remaining days of Pam Bondi and then behind her Todd Blanch, they're going to fire and force to resign anyone that stands in their way. If they want an indictment uh rendered, they're going to fire until they find the person that will do it. If they want a grand jury open, they will fire until they get somebody to do it.

17:25 If they want an investigation started so they can have the headline of an investigation being started and have that black mark against the person who's now has to, you know, who now has to live under that shadow until their name is cleared. They will fire until they get it. And so I used to think, you know, let's leave a few of them inside because it it'll probably help. I don't see that anymore. Maybe I just lost my confidence in that. I'd rather them stop enabling Donald Trump. And when it's time to publicly and noisily quit, Joe Thompson, the US attorney for Minneapolis, a career prosecutor, one who's a straight shooter, who who it investigation into the fraud of uh the in the in the welfare programs of Minnesota is the reason that Trump sent in the surge of ICE to try to embarrass Tim Walls, who's now decided he's not going to run for a third term, to try to embarrass Attorney General Keith Ellison and send

18:25 in the surge to put troops on the streets in order to bully motans and show who's in charge and and ret and do retribution. He said it do retribution against them as if they were the Iranian government instead of the uh uh you know patriotic Americans. Let's remember this is this is like the civil war. We've got US citizen ICE troops against US citizens on the streets of Minnesota who were trying to to do the watching and the whistling over over ICE operations in order to stop people from being killed or murdered in in back alleys.

19:03 And that cost Renee Good's life in the middle of broad daylight. So, um, good on Joe Thompson and half a dozen of his lieutenants in that office for leaving. Um, and good on the six or eight prosecutors under Harit Dylan. We've been talking about Har Dylan and her deprived um, operation of the civil rights division. It is like literally it's like allowing a criminal element to run the jails. Har Dylan is a political hack. She wanted the attorney general position and she didn't get it. She wanted the Republican National Committee chairmanship and she didn't get it. So her consolation prize was to get was to chloroform and take out in the back and shoot the civil rights division and a once proud division. If you if you want to know what it used to do, just go on its website. It's still up there.

19:58 Founded in 1957 during the civil rights movement, we proudly investigated and prosecuted the killers of Medgar Evers and Martin Luther King Jr. and the and the Jewish uh election workers who went down to register people to vote in Mississippi and all the and this is what we're I mean they actually have the balls to keep that up as Harit Dylan has lost more than before even yesterday lost half of her prosecutors who said no I'm out I'm not going to allow the the civil rights division to be weaponized to go after people and actually violate their civil rights remember the days when the civil rights division would go after and prosecute um somebody like Derek Schovin, the bad apple cop who crushed the life out of George Floyd also in Minnesota. Yeah. Well, almost immediately, as Karen, you mentioned, almost immediately, without looking, not having a wholesome investigation, you got Todd Blanch and Armit Dylan saying,

20:54 "We're not going to be doing a a civil rights investigation here." How do you know? How do you know that you that you should or you should not unless you open the investigation and you determine whether civil rights uh have been taken away along with the life of Renee Good. How do you know? Okay. So, nobody believes in trust in the Department of Justice that makes its declarations upfront about what it's going to do, right? You know, it has outcome determinative announcements before they've even conducted the uh the investigation. who trusts uh Cash Patelled FBI to do anything uh transparently or with accountability or with due process. And so now we've got the states having to do it. They're being I had Keith Ellison on. They're being barred from collaborating in the investigation. They'll have to do it on their own. And they're not afraid to bring charges against the federal officer and duke it out in state or

21:49 federal court over that. So you got two lawsuits now that are penning before Judge Mendez that had backtoback hearings. One on Tuesday and one today. The one on Tuesday is about six protesters who are trying to certify a class of first amendment protesters who are being abused by ICE on the streets. We watch it every day on the Midas Touch network, right? We watch it every day with video that goes on for hours about what is you want to know what's happening. Go on, stay on this network and watch go under the live tab where we are and go watch the reporting that our collaborators are doing on the streets of Minnesota and other places. Okay, so that's what's going on there. And so those protesters represented by this group that are before Judge Menendez had a hearing on Tuesday and she got pissed off. She said to the Department of Justice, "Where is your evidence? I hear from the protesters about what's going

22:44 on in the streets." You know how the adversarial process works, right? I need evidence from you and hearsay evidence from field officers and field supervisors like Bavino and the rest. That's not going to do it. Where are the people, the agents on the street to testify? And she says she's going to rule this week. And I would be I would be dumbruck if she doesn't enter a temporary restraining order and certify that class of First Amendment protesters. Following up on what Illinois did with Judge Ellis and Judge May, although there's only one judge here, Judge Menendez, a Biden appointee.

23:20 That was Tuesday and we're waiting on the temporary restraining order and the class action there. Today she held an emergency status conference on the way to setting up the briefing schedule and now the ultimate temporary restraining order on behalf of the state of Minnesota who filed their suit under Keith Ellison's office to stop the abuse and the surge on the streets of Minnesota to stop the Gestapo like tactics to stop the border control tactics as if they're on a border with checkpoints and all sort sorts of things that are just putting innocent Americans in harm's way. Force them to stop brandishing their weapons, pulling out guns and pointing it in the face of Americans. Make them wear uh name tags, take off their masks, uh etc., etc., and wear body cams, you know, things that we expect in a civil society, in a democracy like America. Now, this was very similar to requests that were made

24:20 to Judge Ellis in Illinois. there. The seventh circuit court of appeals sort of paired back a lot of her her attempts to police the police, if you will. But we're in a different we're in a different place now. We're in Illinois. We'll have to see what Judge Menendez is going to is going to do. Everything is all this liberty and justice is in her particular hands. And now you've got the new reporting that Joe Thompson and the entirety of the Minnesota US Attorney's Office leadership walked out the door because they were ordered by apparently Todd Blanch and others to go after the grieving widow Becca. Good. And to investigate her. I got news for them.

24:58 This is a salt of the earth couple who believe in social justice. Put their kid in a program devoted to social justice. put their money where their mouth is. Did peaceful protest, blew whistles, you know, uh, and pissed off ICE, you can hear it in the video, pissed off ICE agents on the street. Not because they were blocked, not because they were rammed. Those are all lies. Cuz just they were just pissed off. You know, we know they're pissed off because there's new reporting that's out there now that Adam uh Adam Classfeld and Michigan public radio put out about protesters being told while they were being pepper-sprayed and paint and and pepper balled being told under their breath by ICE agents, will you stop following us? That's what got that lesbian killed.

25:52 You know, this is the kind of evidence that comes into a courtroom and comes in either on a civil side with plaintiffs lawyers, you know, and and for punitive damages and the rest. Uh because this is this is the lawlessness of of ICE under uh Christy Gnome and under um and under uh Donald Trump. So, uh that is all going on. Have you seen the reporting before we go to our commercial break about Pam Bondi being on the way out? Karen,

26:25 it definitely seems like she's being marginalized at the very least, right? They're creating a new fraud zar and and that reports directly to the White House, not through her. And it looks like it looks like Trump is telling people be more aggressive and and it and it looks like he's Exactly. He's compl he's complaining about Bondi to people that she's not aggressive enough. And I have to wonder if like Jannine Piro for example if she went rogue and didn't even go through Pam Bondi to go after uh Jay Powell of the Fed because I think the message is loud and clear from the top. Be more aggressive, bring more cases and go after the people that you know I would want to go after and don't run it up through Pam Bondi which is what they're supposed to do. So it certainly seems at the very least people feel uh emboldened US attorneys who would never do this in any other administration. You have to go through

27:24 main justice and the attorney general emboldened to make decisions to please Trump and not necessarily go through Bondi. And it also looks like Trump is growing weary of her even though frankly I think she's extremely aggressive and uh and and and doing things that are way outside the bounds of what we consider to be uh normal and lawful activities of an attorney general. um and standing by Lindseay Halligan who's not a prosecutor who who a court who Judge Curry ruled is not the US attorney but standing by her or going after Leticia James and James Comey etc. You know she's she's been extremely aggressive but apparently not aggressive enough for Trump. So it'll be very interesting to see how this plays out.

28:16 Well, I think she's I think she's I think she's toast. I think she's gone. Um she I thought she was gone based on the performance if that's what you want to call it in the in the House and Senate oversight committees. Um I thought that um Trump would not believe that that was a strong performance. He had he held a um she got set up recently at a press conference at the White House where it was supposed to be to give some sort of phony award to prosecutors that are left like Janine Piro. Trump came out, totally embarrassed her, uh, uh, yelled and screamed at the prosecutors during the pro, basically saying, "You shouldn't be getting an award. You should be more aggressive, uh, critiquing her in front of her underlings in public." And every major story that's happened in the last month, she has not been at any press conference related to it. Epstein, that's Todd Blanch. Uh, what's happening in

29:11 Minneapolis, that's JD Vance. uh what's happening in um any other major criminal news story. You don't see Pam Bondi any longer. And so I would be shocked if she survives. This looks like the handwriting is on the wall and the handwriting is of Todd Blanch. I'd be shocked if he's not elevated to the US attorney. It's Donald Trump's favorite criminal defense lawyer since she was never his favorite. You know, she did terribly during the impeachment proceedings for him. She could barely read off of a three- ring binder that she was reading from. And Todd Blanch, you know, like him, love him or hate him, was very very successful as Donald Trump's criminal defense lawyer. And I think he certainly has his his confidence. I don't think he brings in another

29:59 he he lo he represented him in in the Manhattan DA case and lost that case. He lost the case except Donald Trump go to jail.

30:07 No. and and on appeal is the issue of whether whatever that little you you know it better than me, whatever that little New York nuance is to I'll put you down for a felony. Um that that could be in jeopardy. So, you know, the immunity decision, Todd Blanch along with uh along with John Sauer, uh the the Colorado insurrection decision, Todd Blanch, Mara Lago, Todd Blanch, DC election interference case, Todd Blanch. If you're if you're looking for a strong winner, it ain't it ain't Pam Bondi. So I but I'm not sure that the replacement is going to if anybody thinks her out is going to change the lawlessness of this Trump administration's DOJ, it's not.

30:50 Donald Trump is his own attorney general as we've seen and Todd Blanch is complicit just just the same way Pam Bondi. In fact, he's at least more confident that she is. But I don't think that helps us.

31:01 Yeah. I mean, you have to wonder also the whole Epstein debacle has stayed in the news every single day for months and it's all about Trump and how they're handling this and and that's under Bondi as well.

31:15 Yeah, but Todd Blanch is the one that's constantly making comments about it. It's Todd Blanch's filings. It's Todd Blanch's social media post. Pam P Pam Bondi being nowhere. You know, you're making the point there's no Pam Bondi. So I I would not be shocked if during a slow news night on a Sunday night, nobody's looking, Pam Bondi is kicked upstairs to like the Trump Organization or the Republican National Committee along with Alina Hava and the other quote unquote losers that you know we know that Donald Trump hates. So, we will pick up with um when we return from our our break, we'll pick up with the transgender um oral argument on behalf of Becky Pepper Jackson and transgender high school students everywhere. Um and what happened during that oral argument.

31:59 We'll talk about the Federal Reserve criminal prosecution that's apparently with a grand jury been opened even though now they're saying, "Well, we had no choice. We they didn't listen to our emails." uh attacks on federal judges which continue with Pam Bondi as they continue to defend Lindseay Haligan to the death and some new developments in the Epstein files. Many ways to support what we do on Legal AF. Uh one of them is we have a legal AF YouTube channel and we've just for 2026 we've done some major expansion. Two new legal AF branded podcasts are out now for your audio pleasure. They need your help and support. unprecedented, a show that I do with Dena Dah about the United States Supreme Court once a week and a show that comes on multiple times a week called Court of History with Sydney Blumenthal and Shawn Wentz. They're up on audio podcast platforms of your choice. They could use some love. They

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36:48 health, fuel fitness recovery, and strengthen immune health, supporting your best performance every day. Take back control of your health. We've worked out a special offer for my audience. Receive 30% off your first subscription order. Go to armrod.com/legal AF or enter legal af to get 30% off your first subscription order. That's a r a.com/legala. Welcome back to Legal AF at the midweek with Michael Pop and Karen Freriedman. Karen, we had an oral argument disheartening for many at the United States Supreme Court about well on paper it was about a 15-year-old named Becky Pepper Jackson and another NCAA former NCAA athlete whose last name is heck about whether they're going to have the right to participate based on the sex that they not only identify with but in the case of Becky Pepper Jackson that she's taken gender affirming uh healthcare to support. She never went through male puberty. She's always been

37:56 a girl um since she was 11 years old when the case was started. Now 15. I think she wants to throw the shot putt. She you know um that's it. She just wants to participate in in collegiate sports and the entire state of West Virginia passed a law to ban her. Um and MAGA then jumped on board um with the Riley Gaines of the world. According to my ACLU contacts who were in the room during the oral argument because the ACLU handled her case. They were lining up. MAGA was lining up for like three days to get tickets to go. It's like their Super Bowl. So disgusting. You know, just a group that has no political representation. I mean, one member of Congress is openly transgender and she's been bashed.

38:40 And no political power to speak of, very small in number. And the NCAA's out of 500,000 people in that ering collegiate sport, 10 are openly transgender. You know, they always love to use it as the boogeyman and the wedge issue. Show pictures of some Iranian boxer to say, "Do you want this in the in the in the girls' room with your with your 5-year-old?" Which is not what this is about at all. And so we were we there was some hope about yesterday's hearing oral argument which was up on Legal AF Substack and I'm sorry legal AF YouTube channel and I did a pregame show in advance of it that based on two competing decisions maybe they would figure out a way not to crush the hopes and dreams and and take away the dignity of people who are American citizens in the transgender community. There was a case in 2020 called the botock case in which in a six-3 decision led by Gorsuch they decided that transgender people

39:43 can't be discriminated against in the workplace under title 7. We were like yay. But then a year ago in the screetti case which was argued by an ACLU lead lawyer who is the first openly transgender person to argue at at the United States Supreme Court. The 6 to3 went the other way and they found that Tennessee's ban on gender affirming care for children, you know, when I say children under 18 uh was okay and wasn't unconstitutional. And we're like, okay, it's and I knew it was going to come down to Roberts and it was going to come down to Gorsuch and of course Kavanaaugh. So the here in the oral argument went up and what was your takeaway from what you heard for the or what you heard about the oral argument Karen?

40:30 Yeah I mean you know it was a three and a half hour oral argument so I couldn't listen to the whole thing but I did dip in and out of it and listen and the ultimate takeaway is of is that the it's going to be 63 uh and it's going to be not in favor of the trans community. Um, that's what I I think just based on what I heard. But but a bigger picture is the way they were talking and some of the questions they were asking it. It's like when you if if you were to if you were to somehow zoom into the 1800s and listen to a Supreme Court argument back then and the way they talk about the way they would talk about people with who are mentally ill or the way they would talk about black people or even women, you'd cringe and be so offended based on just the way they're spoken about and dehumanized and the way the the just the the language that's used and and and the analysis that's done in in such an

41:33 offensive, dehumanizing way. And I got that same sense from this argument that that that's what we're going to that's what history when it looks back at this and how they were uh parsing and talking about about um inherent differences and pseudocience and and things that just um it just felt so um backward to me and really such a shame that we are we are in this place in in society. But, you know, look, they're going to look at they're looking at equal protection versus fairness or what is the scope of Title N and scientific evidence and whether scientific debate about athletic advantages by birth that sex should influence the constitutionality of state laws and and and all of that kind of stuff. And I I I think that in the end, they're not going, if I had to guess, my crystal ball is they're not going to make any big sweeping rulings about trans rights. I think what they're going to do is they're going to say leave it

42:32 up to the states and the 25 states that that ban this that's fine and if you know and if you don't want to ban it and you want to let let people play on the on on sports then that's up to you. So that that's what I think they're going to do but I don't have a crystal ball but just from what I what I saw in the skepticism of the conservatives and their argument that that's where I if I had to guess where I thought they'd land. What about you? Yeah, it's going to be six to3 against Becky Pepper Jackson and anybody like her. And I think you're right, they're going to leave it to the States. I mean, I wanted to strangle um Kavanaaugh who started to tell the same story he told during his confirmation hearing,

43:12 how he's a coach of his daughter's team, about being the basketball coaches for his and oh my god, and and and forget Becky Pepper Jackson and all of the great salutoy things that come from being a young person involved with sport. that will now be denied her. But focus instead on what about that poor cisgender person who won't make the team because and again creating the boogeyman because they're beat out by the transgender person and oh they'll never recover. I'm like what about the what about the other person?

43:46 Yeah, exactly. Like what what about the cisgender person whose whose par or or whose parents happen to be both 6'2 and so the cisgender woman happens to be 6'2 and someone else's parents are 5t tall and and they didn't make the cut even you know they could say oh it's not fair they have some biological advantage I mean that that's what it sounded like to me just the way they were talking about uh about trans people as if they're not you know if you're a trans woman you're a woman and they didn't talk about it like that, right? They were Yeah.

44:20 And Becky would have been a perfect person to talk about it because she went through puberty blockers. She never she never went through male puberty. And if you've seen pictures of her when she was 11, she looked like a normal 11year-old girl, you know, cisgender girl and 15 the same. I don't know how tall she is, but you know, my my daughter's on track to being, you know, 59 or 510, maybe, you know, God willing. Um, it'll speed up my retirement if we can get her into sport. But, but I I have no problem with somebody who works as hard as my daughter will work to earn a spot on the team just because she was born uh or he was born of a different um identifier at birth. And, you know, to create this entire there, let's be frank, there are not enough transgender athletes to put them in their own league. So what you're saying is it's okay to deny them the ability to participate in sport at the high school

45:19 and lower level in 25 states. Just deny that experience. And for those of us that have done sport in their life, I don't know what your background is in high school and all, but those of us that have had the the whether you were a a medalist or a trophy winner or a champion or you just got to participate in a sport and learn what hard work and teamwork um and self-confidence is all about. This is now being denied to this marginal now marginalized disadvantaged group in our society. And there's no recognition. I I just wish the ACLU would just speak like normal people sometimes out loud and say the transgender community for political purposes is under attack by MAGA and Donald Trump. That it started with gays in the military and gay marriage and a woman's right to choose. And when they ran out of things to use as wedge issues to put each other at each to put Americans at each other's throats, they

46:19 turned to the most helpless community that we should be stretching our arms around to protect. And the Supreme Court should too in the transgender community and see it for what it is instead of getting into the well, I coached my my daughter's middle school basketball team and wasn't, you know, I don't know why I slip into Ben's impersonations and things sometimes. I think that's because I've been around. You know they say like you the dog becomes looks like its owner. I start talking like Ben sometimes. But

46:48 which one which one are you? The dog. I leave it at that. See, I leave it at that. People can put in comments. But again, again, no laughing matter. We people know on this hopefully know in five or six years of this show that we are tremendous supporters of the transgender community. We're supporters of any community that needs the protection of the rule of law in the Supreme Court. Remember the old days, Karen, when the Supreme Court used to actually step in and and spread its wings to protect under the Constitution disadvantaged groups and make sure they had constitutional rights instead of taking them away with stupid anecdotal stories from their own life. Remember those days?

47:28 You know, it's hard to remember, but yes, I I do. So, this is not going to go well. Um, I agree with you. I think in June, one of these controversial decisions that they'll drop on their way out to one of their boondoggles paid for by the Federalist Society uh over another billionaire,

47:44 another billionaire on on a yacht somewhere. They'll be basking in the glow of their decisions and we'll get things like the tariff decision and this decision and and whatever else that they decide that's controversial that they need to drop. Um, heads up for people, a week from about a week from today, the Supreme Court's going to be hearing the case of Donald Trump's uh powers to fire and take over the Federal Reserve because we're going to talk about the Federal Reserve next and and Lisa Cook clinging clinging on to her board her board of governor seat. um and whether oh they're going to side on a business issue with Donald Trump here in his takeover of the independence of the Federal Reserve or they're going to follow what they said just as recently as the summer when they said no not the Federal Reserve you can swing your axe Trump wherever you want on congressionally created agencies

48:38 departments and things but not not not our bank of the United States not the Federal Reserve central bank. Yeah. Let's see if they let's see if they uphold that in how they handle Lisa Cook and due process concerns. But um let's switch gears now and talk about Jay Powell. So we wake up a couple of nights ago. It's funny on Sunday nights I do my recordings for the first video of the day on Legal AF YouTube channel uh to have it up and ready for people at 8 a.m. And you know sometimes it's a you know it's a little bit of a slow news weekend. I mean not recently.

49:13 Yeah. When was that? Those days are over. And so I was like, I was working on a story and then the bombshell hit, you know, Wall Street Journal and New York Times. There's an open grand jury led by Janine Piro's office, the US attorney's office, and they've issued criminal subpoenas to the Federal Reserve and Jay Powell about the cost overruns cost overruns, mind you, for the guy that's doubled the cost of a of a half a billion dollar golden ballroom on the wreckage of the of the East Wing in Trump and what Jay Powell told and under oath told the senators like Tim Scott about the renovation project. This all stems, let's be frank, this all stems from Donald Trump getting embarrassed by JPAL. Not on purpose. J.

49:57 Pal is not a guy that goes out of his way like like Barack Obama did at the White House dinner uh 15 years ago to piss off Donald Trump and make him run for office, but this was just J. Powell pushing back as he was being ex uh he was being uh paddled by Donald Trump in in public about cost overruns. And he said, "Let me see that sheet of paper." Oh, that you're you're adding in an entire other building that we did five years ago in your cost overrun calculation. Well, that embarrassed Donald Trump and he didn't like it. So, now he's doubled down on it. And but in response, and I won't play it again because it's been overplayed, but in response within minutes, hours, JPL, he of modest modest demeanor, and I'm sure this led to a miscalculation by the Trump administration that J. Pal would never come out and say what he said. He didn't just come out and say I'm innocent. He didn't just come out and

50:50 say I'm a man of high integrity and the Federal Reserve, you know, did not have cost overruns that were criminal in nature and I did not mislead Congress. No, no, no. He said, "We all know what this is about. This is about uh the attempts by Donald Trump and the Trump administration to take over the Federal Reserve, destroy its independence, and take over interest rates." And what that had the effect of doing, leave it to leave it to J. pal to rescue our economy once again was to calm the waters of the financial markets who didn't wake up to holy Donald Trump's going after J Pal criminally now it woke up to JPAL saying everybody pump the brakes and relax I'm not going anywhere in fact I'm really not going anywhere including until 2028 uh if if you thought I was and just get back to your work on the financial markets and there was like a there was like a almost no impact on the financial markets, but it did lead to a

51:48 battlecry and it led 20 central bankers from around the world led by Canada and the central bank there bailing us out once again. Midas mighty might map Maple Mighty, thank you very much, central bank in Canada bailing us out and 20 other central bankers, but more importantly, Senate Republicans coming to the rescue, including Tom Tillis, who's got nothing to lose. He's like, I'm only here till 2026 anyway. And saying, yeah, I'm not going to vote on the Senate Banking Committee for any uh uh Trump nominee, especially for chairman, while you still have an open investigation against JPAL. Just not going to do it. And that alone would create an impass. Just Tillis alone doesn't need anybody else. Although there are other people that have now come forward. And Karen, did you hear what Jannine Piro just said out loud to try to justify the investigation, but give her an out to dismiss it? Yeah, she

52:39 said she said, "Well, they should have just answered our emails that we sent right before and right after Christmas, by the way." You know, that it was like December 19th or something and like the 29th and they didn't answer our emails. That's all they had to do. And then we wouldn't have done this. I mean, she she's already backtracking because I think she sees that this was too aggressive. This has gotten a response from all around the world and Republicans and Democrats here in the United States. And I think she was flexing and trying to show off for Donald Trump and go after an enemy and and go around Pam Bondi. And that's why she she did this. And you know, this is her he this is her way of of kind of currying favor with Donald Trump because Powell isn't lowering interest rates the way Trump wants him to because because the whole point of the Federal Reserve, right? It's supposed to be independent.

53:31 It's not supposed to be influenced by politics. That's the entire that's how it was created. That's why that it's it's it's very bipartisan. the the leadership and the positions are staggered so that it goes between administrations and you can't remove people without cause. I think this actually will help the Supreme Court case and Lisa Cook next week. Uh the fact that that it's so political and to see what Donald Trump is do trying to do to Powell and how Piro is trying to threaten him with a grand jury investigation and criminal prosecution.

54:04 And I think the Supreme Court's going to see that and say that is too far and that does take away the independence.

54:10 Yeah. In fact, that's a very good point. He there was a mult there were multiple audiences for for uh Chairman Pal's late night video. One of them was to calm the financial markets which was a success but the other one I think was a signal as you noted back to the Supreme Court saying to them you see if you empower Donald Trump and you don't clip his wings in the area of Federal Reserve independence you see what he's doing to me and the even though we don't like the Supreme Court when it comes to civil liberties civil rights women's rights im immigration ation rights um and transgender rights. When it comes to business issues, they don't always side with Donald Trump. I don't think they're going to side with Donald Trump in the tariff decision when it finally is is dropped in the next couple of months.

55:01 And and I don't think they side with him on how he handled the Lisa Cook firing. I don't think firing by social media post is going to satisfy their requirement of of either due process and I don't think they're going to take off the requirement that when it comes to the Federal Reserve you got to have just cause and that Bill Py's social media tweets is not going to do it and he's involved in the in the in the Powell one as well. So, no surprise that Janine Piro is already kind of figuring out a way to like walk this back. Um, underwater is I'm sure of Donald Trump all, you know, just again an example of where Donald Trump um, uh, just can't get out of his own way. All he had to do is shut up, pick his new replacement, announce it next week, whoever that's going to be for the Federal Reserve chairman. Just stop. Get all don't troll America and the economy and the global economy and don't troll poor Mr. Powell

56:00 who's doing a he's doing an amazing job go down in history as one of the greatest Federal Reserve chairman ever and how he's navigated the US economy against the crosswinds of an insane Donald Trump and his economic policies. Um, all that's all he had to do. And maybe maybe if he acted nice and caught more flies with honey than with vinegar, maybe Jay Powell not only would have stepped down May 20 May of this year as chairman, maybe he would have stepped down from the entirety of the board of governors before 2028. I don't think so because I don't think he wanted to give Donald Trump an open seat. I think he's going to hang in there. But now he's certainly going to hang in there. And now you've created a situation where your new chairman pick may not get picked and confirmed by the Senate because the Senate Republicans are saying that's a bridge too far. What are you doing now against Jay Powell and

56:51 undermining our economy and undermining our debt and our dollar and the Treasury notes and rates? Um it's first of all, this is why the global bankers all join together to support Jay Pal. It scares the out of them. I mean, there's an old line which is true. If America gets a cough, the rest of the world gets the flu. And and we are the bellweather and the standard, the gold standard for the the rest of the world's economies are reactive to our economy. And that's why you got to get off the back of the American consumer, voter, and of course of JPAL. When we um come back from our last break, we'll talk about the the um the remaining days of Pam Bondi. Uh we just got note that she has been called to testify before the House and Senate Judiciary Committee on February 11th.

57:48 I'm not sure she makes it. Circle that date on your calendar, folks. I'm not sure she makes it to Feb 11. we may see somebody else sitting in that chair by that time, but certainly uh they uh the oversight committees have called her in uh which I think is appropriate. Uh but yet they're coming out swinging against another federal judge, this time a Trump appointee in Judge Novak in the Eastern District of Virginia who on his own initiative entered effectively in order to show cause as to why Lindsey Hallan she shouldn't just have her name taken off of pleadings and off the indictments which is what they've they've created a straw man in their argument. You know, oh you're you're doing an inquisition over the signature block. No, he is he is this you must not have read the second half of his order which was explain to me why you haven't violated five or six different profession rules of professional responsibility in ethics

58:42 why I shouldn't refer you for bar discipline why I shouldn't ban you from my courtroom and I want you to sign whatever gets filed because you wanted to see how she was going to sign it and of course when we come back we'll talk about how she signed it who joined her in signing it and the arguments that they've to attack Judge Novak and major updates in the Epstein files matter, including involving two major universities. We'll cover all of that and more. Uh we're going to take our first break. Remember to become a Legal AF YouTube member and paid member.

59:16 That's what keeps gives us the resources to continue to grow and expand and add on new contributors and the American Civil Liberties Union, etc., etc., for 2026 and beyond. And of course, we've got Legal AF Substack as well, where you you'll find content like no other. And I'll give you a return on your investment you've never seen before if you come over to Legal AF Substack. And we're running a sale on our paid membership at 20% off there as well. But now, another word from our pro-democracy sponsors. Delete Me makes it easy, quick, and safe to remove your personal data online. At a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. Look, as someone with an active online presence, privacy is really important to me. I'm constantly thinking about how much of my personal information is just floating around out there. Data brokers make a profit off of your data, your name,

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1:01:06 One more time. That's jointdeleteme.com/legal AF and code legal AF. Magic Spoon is basically the grown-up version of your favorite childhood cereal. All the fun, nostalgic taste without the sugar bomb. It's a wholesome, high quality, high protein, zero sugar cereal that still hits that Saturday morning vibe. Each serving has 13 grams of protein, five grams of net carbs, and zero grams of sugar. So, it's super fueling any time of the day, and great for anyone who's carb conscious. They've got classic flavors like fruity, frosted, hot chocolate, and cinnamon toast. They're also launching new flavors in January this month, that lean hard into childhood nostalgia. Classic marshmallow, reminiscent of a certain childhood favorite enjoyed by all, and S'mores, the ultimate campfire inspired cereal. Both include real marshmallows and just 2 g of sugar. Plus, Magic Spoon Treats are crispy, airy snack bars with

1:02:10 12 grams of protein. And their granola packs, 13 g of protein with zero added sugar, perfect anytime. Look for Magic Spoon on Amazon or at your nearest grocery store. Or get $5 off your next order at magixpoon.com/legal AF. That's magixpoon.com/legal AF for $5 off. Welcome back to the midweek edition of Legal AF with your host Michael Popach and Karen Freeman Nolo. Karen, what do you make of their continued support at the Department of Justice for Lindseay Halligan and and I don't know if you got a chance to read Judge Novak's order and the response by the Department of Justice in which I'll just summarize it this way and turn it over to you. Their argument is if they don't agree with a federal judge's interpretation of the law, they don't have to comply with it. that they have as an equally they have as equally a legitimate interpretation of the statutes that are at at issue about the appointment of a US attorney and they

1:03:19 don't read judge this has to but then we don't read judge Curry as having created a vacancy although her order says she created a vacancy and that Lindseay Alligan is banned from being US attorney and we just don't agree with her analysis so we're not we're not complying with it. What did you make of their position and what do you think Judge Novak does next? Never in my career as a prosecutor or um as a as a defense attorney have I ever seen ever a prosecutor or the Department of Justice take that position. The judge gets to decide. That's the whole point, right? It's an adversarial system.

1:03:53 You've got the prosecution on one side, you've got the defense on the other, and the judge is the referee. The judge decides what the law is in the judge's courtroom. Period. Full stop. If you don't like it, you appeal it. but you don't disobey it or say I disagree with you so I'm not going to to abide by it. So I find it frankly astounding and uh really unbelievable that that is the position that they will take. But they are circling the wagons around Lindsay Hallan. You've got uh Todd Blanch and Pam Bondi also just signing their names to this and and supporting her. And I don't really understand why they're supporting her so much. And it's not like she's I mean yes, she's willing to do whatever they ask her to do, but she's not getting results and she's kind of an embarrassment and frankly no one wants to work with her. So it's it's really a strange uh situation that they have there. But I I've never seen

1:04:46 anything like it. It's it's you're not allowed to do that. So what do you think Novak does about it?

1:04:52 That's a great question. Um I mean will the judge hold her in contempt? I mean, I think at a minimum they he refer the judge will refer uh Halligan to the bar committees, disciplinary committees, potentially risking her law license. Will the judge hold her in contempt? That's kind of the nuclear option. Will the judge dismiss any indictment that or or will judges start dismissing more indictments that her name is on? I mean, the my open question is why aren't the judges of the Eastern District of Virginia, why aren't they voting on a new US attorney?

1:05:32 Because they have that that's what's supposed to happen until Trump nom gets someone passed through the Senate. Why aren't they just putting in their own US attorney and have it be a battle of the US attorneys? I mean, right now, Trump is holding his ground and saying that she's validly appointed and the judges aren't acting. And it's really their responsibility given the state of things because really what Judge Curry said was the state of the law is you get to appoint someone under the appointments clause for 120 days and once that expires, you don't get to appoint someone new and then reset a new 120 days. The 120 days is what you get for a temporary appointment. After that, the next thing that is supposed to happen is the judges of whatever district are supposed to vote and elect essentially a US attorney until the president can nominate someone who is qualified and who is then confirmed by the Senate,

1:06:30 which is what the process is for United States attorneys. Um, and so that that's the one question I have about why they haven't done that here. Um, and so perhaps is it because they already did that with Eric Sebert and then Trump fired him? You know, that was who who was the US attorney prior to Lindseay Hall. That was someone who was nominated by Trump whose 120 days expired, but who was the judges felt was qualified. And so the judges actually voted him in to be the United States attorney. And then Trump went on to fire him when he refused to bring cases against uh against Jim Comey and Leticia James. And so, so I I don't know if they if they're shy, you know, gunshy because they did it once and Trump fired that person and they just think it would be for, you know, it would be sort of a a fool's errand. But but this is a stalemate that's going to continue to go on. The judge has to press it. The judge can't

1:07:32 allow them to basically give the judge the middle finger, which is essentially what they're doing, and saying, "We disagree with the law, so we're not going to follow it." Well, he has to press that and and push that. and then it'll be appealed and and and it'll go from there. But I I I think that's what where it goes.

1:07:49 Okay, we're in the home stretch. Karen, let's talk about these new shocking developments that have now been reported by the Wall Street Journal about the Epstein files. It looks like according to um details provided to the House Oversight Committee led by Jamie Rascin, pardon me. It looks like um major universities uh in this case NYU, my alma mater and Columbia University in New York may have been complicit in money laundering for Jeffrey Epstein where Jeffrey Epstein not only used the promise, the bait of girls and young women being given seats and have paid tuition at these universities, but then overpaid their tuition and had the money returned to his predatory victims, which was a way to money launder. And uh they've now at the at the congressional level opened up an investigation. Lisa Phillips, one of those survivors who was offered um just such a deal. Um and is featured in the Wall Street Journal uh bombshell report

1:09:00 is going to be my uh guest uh in in an interview, exclusive interview that will be up number one tomorrow morning on the Legal AF YouTube channel. What did you make of that? And then we'll talk about to round it out, Judge Angel Meer considering appointing an independent monitor or special master to take over from an untrustworthy Department of Justice the process of continuing to produce the Epstein files pursuant to a law that was signed into law by Donald Trump. Well, these new allegations that uh universities may have been used to frankly as you know launder money uh as uh as trafficking victims were being trafficked. um certainly has to be investigated and just like there are so many issues still left to be investigated in that case and I think that that certainly survivors deserve it and that investigation really needs to continue in so many different with so many different tentacles right everything that we're

1:10:10 learning about the various banks that that potentially also help facilitate Jeffrey Epstein people who protect ed him and other people who victimized the the the girls, the young girls that were trafficked by him. And so, you know, I think that there's is still a lot to be investigated and a lot to be done. But what's happening right now is uh just to summarize where we are, Congress passed a law basically the the Epstein Transparency Act saying you have to turn it over, turn over all the records and the Department of Justice has missed the deadline and publicly keeps reporting different numbers on how many files there are. Right. based on on MIDAS reporting it was that MIDAS found uh something that referenced over 5 million files and that's a lot more than what was originally represented by the Department of Justice. Now, the Department of Justice is saying, "Well, no, the number is actually 2 million

1:11:13 files." And frankly, what we do know is that the deadline has passed and they have not complied with this statute. And so, you've got this bipartisan you've got bipartisan, uh, um, members of Congress basically writing to the judge and saying, uh, we would like to intervene. We would like to be a part of this. And you know, I think he's going to they're going to ask for a special master to be appointed because the Department of Justice isn't getting it done and they're putting stuff out and then pulling it back out and, you know, pull pulling it off the website and and not complying with the deadlines. And so, at a minimum, it's being it's it's being mishandled. And I think a special master could uh I think be the thing that brings some legitimacy to this process and some independence and some transparency to this process and and maybe we'll finally get to see all the files. um you know the the

1:12:19 sticking point is going to be the department the the the exception that was created in the Epstein Transparency Act where they can withhold documents that are part of an ongoing investigation and that's going to be I think the hook that the Department of Justice uses to try to withhold documents and other other evidence uh from the public certainly about Republicans um but not about Democrats And there's a lot the the one thing that's clear though is there's a lot that needs to be done in addition to just releasing these files. There's a lot more investigation that needs to be done. And then you've got Congress trying to call the Clintons before Congress and then they're refusing to go and and taking on Congress. I mean, this whole thing is is really escalated into a mess. And and frankly, the the people who are being harmed by this is is not just the American people, but it's the Epstein survivors themselves who really

1:13:15 I think are the ones caught up in in this political mess that has been created by the handling of these files, these millions of records, the investigations in general, and all of these files. So, there's a lot that still needs to be done for sure. If I'm the Clintons, I don't testify to them if in front of this corrupt Department of Justice off in the wings. I mean, but that's what they want. They want the Clintons have to take the fifth amendment to try to embarrass them politically as they try to undermine the Democratic brand and the and the states people within, you know, like threatening to go after Barack Obama and threatening to go after Clinton. They're trying to like go after our Mount Rushmore of recent history. And

1:13:57 do you think they're gonna do you think they're going to um go as far as they went with Navaro and Bannon and and try to do contempt of Congress? I mean, you know, it's it's an interesting question, right? If they just refuse to to come and how far they'll take it. Uh it's it's a very interesting position.

1:14:14 They could and um but I mean I think the right move and there's a there's a multilevel chess game going on here. I think the right move for the Clintons was not to appear. Um, even if they do appear, it would be to take the fifth amendment. But I think we're not there yet. I think there'll be negotiations about it. You know, maybe it'll be closed door, maybe it'll be a statement, maybe it'll be an affidavit, but we'll have to see um uh what will happen and how that will play out. But you hit you hit something right on the the nail right on the head. There's there was so much money around Jeffrey Epstein as whatever he was, some sort of financial advisor.

1:14:53 talking hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars. And money money is a funny thing because it ends up places. It ends up being spent, saved, held in banks, held in financial services, invested um and used to buy and to fuel and to fund the child sex predator international trafficking ring. you know, it went into the island, it went into the plane, it went into the trips, it went into the promises, it went into the bait that was used to get these impressionable girls to be uh prayed upon. And so now what we're watching, and this is what you and I do for a living, is following the money and where it ended up. That's why oftentimes in the next level or the tertiary level of of investigations in the white collar area, it often goes back to the banks and the accounting firms, you know, it starts with the bad guy, who stole the money, you know, but and then it goes to well, where did he put the money? How

1:15:56 often did he put it there? and and and did they do proper due diligence where if they had shut down the criminal fraud ring, the child predator ring, the deposit of money around that ring earlier, then maybe the entire criminal enterprise would have been stopped if they didn't have a place to park their money. And that's the argument against Colombia and NYU. Listen, they're innocent until proven guilty. However, if the evidence is is shows that they knew or should have known about these Epstein checks or credit card or whatever was used or donations to get these a bunch of girls into school, I mean, forget about V remember Varsity Blues, you know, a bunch of parents, including some uh famous ones who like knew their kids were not good at sport and like paid to get them to be on the the bad mitten team or get a admittance scholarship or what I forget varsity blues. This is about whether a

1:16:54 university and its relationship with Epstein was corrupted and they knew or should have known about it and shut it down to to stop the child sex trafficking ring in its uh in its tracks and are they complicit in it or are they innocent like oh we didn't know Jeffrey Epstein from uh from Billy Epste. We didn't know who he was. I I just don't think that's how it's going to play out. I think we're going to see a closer relationship and you know uh tuition starved and and um endowment starved universities always looking to bring in cash and Epstein throwing it around. Um the question is did they turn a blind eye that could have protected children from being trafficked in an international child sex trafficking ring or not? And then we got Judge Engel Meyer on the issue as we said about special master independent monitor. the victims are going to come forward because Judge Angel Meer basically in

1:17:52 his order asked the victims come forward and I'm sure there's going to be people including Lisa Phillips that will come forward in the next few days to join in with Representative Roana and Thomas Massie in their request to be recognized as Amicus or Amichi briefs friend of the court briefs to argue for the special master and independent monitor to be assigned to take the process away from the Department of Justice. that frankly cannot be trusted. They're conflicted obviously because they're protecting their boss rather than protecting the victims or the survivors. Um and so we'll follow that. There'll be developments that wheel will turn maybe by this Saturday, maybe by the time you and I get back together again or certainly we will cover it every hour on Legal AF YouTube channel, Legal AF Substack with my live reports um and and the rest. So Karen, we've reached the end of our show. We had a great great I

1:18:49 think update and briefing of our audience. We always like to give you the last word. What's on your mind?

1:18:55 You know, a lot's going on. I'm looking at a lot of international things right now, right? What's going to happen with Iran? There's reporting that over 20,000 people have been killed and Donald Trump is is is escalating things there and talking about how he's going to take decisive action and and reports that that the president of Iran said something like, you know, next time the bullet's not going to miss him. I mean, we're we're in a place right now that is so just volatile. he's threatening to take over Greenland and and you know what that'll do to NATO and um and reports about what's happening in Gaza.

1:19:33 I mean, there's a lot going on internationally that can't be lost and that we all have to really pay attention to because Donald Trump is not just trying to destabilize our economy. He's trying to destabilize the world. And he is more dangerous than I think anyone predicted or anyone could have thought of. And you know, I remember when we first started podcasting and we first started doing this, there were some people who were accusing us of being uh hyperbolic, right, and being extreme and being exaggerating. I don't think and and and certainly we weren't, right?

1:20:09 Midas is are the people who were the only people that were talking about it. And I think that was the frustration and why Midas touch network was created originally was because no it was everyone was both sidesing everything and no one was talking about this in real terms and now here we are. We're exactly I think worse off than any of us could have ever predicted. And this is really a fight for our democracy. And so I say all this because I'm just so honored to be a part of this this network and part of Legal AF with you POPAC and this community that comes here and listens to us every week and every day and our this is our way of speaking out and our way of protesting and our way of getting the truth out. But we have to keep staying informed. We can't put our heads down and say things like, "Oh, it's just too depressing. I don't want to deal with it. I don't want to know." This is truly an identity crisis

1:21:02 for our nation and for democracy that we're in. And it's just so important that we all stay as informed as possible, and keep fighting in our own ways, however we can do it, whether it's through a protest, whether it's writing a letter, whether it's at the ballot box in November, which can't come soon enough, or just being a part of this community. And um don't give up hope. There's a lot of hope and a lot I think is we're going to fight back. We're going to fight back hard and we're going to win because this is just bananas what's going on. So, so I am just so honored to be here with you every week.

1:21:38 It's my favorite part of the week. It's the thing I look forward to the most and uh and I I just love I love legal AF and the legal affers and the mightest mighty and everybody else who comes.

1:21:50 And that's the bell everybody. Right on. You've been speaking too long. Great. No, that was just an alarm. I'm moving on to an interview in a minute. That's a great way to end our show. Thank you, Karen. Legal Afers and Midas Mighty. We'll see you on Saturday with Ben Meelis and of course regular reporting on Legal AF YouTube channel and Legal AF Substack. Until then, shout out to the Mightest Mighty and the Legal Afers.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "LIVE: ICE LAWSUIT MAJOR UPDATE + EPSTEIN FILES BOMBSHELL | Legal AF"?

Michael Popok (Host), Karen Freeman Noll (Guest).

What is "LIVE: ICE LAWSUIT MAJOR UPDATE + EPSTEIN FILES BOMBSHELL | Legal AF" about?

The main topic centers on the legal and ethical implications surrounding the murder of Renee Good by an ICE agent, which has sparked protests and resignation threats among career prosecutors. Additionally, the discussion highlights a new lawsuit by the Minnesota Attorney General, ongoing legal battles involving ICE's conduct, and a high-profile case concerning the rights of a transgender high…

What is mentioned in this MeidasTouch episode?

33 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Donald Trump, Department of Justice, Renee Mlin Good, Karen Freeman Nippol, Kate Blanch, Jay Powell. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "LIVE: ICE LAWSUIT MAJOR UPDATE + EPSTEIN FILES BOMBSHELL | Legal AF"?

The episode runs 1 h 22 min; the transcript is about 14,254 words in 106 timestamped sections.

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