Transcript

The Look Live from DC: Legacy, Oprah, and That Tan Suit | The Look

From Michelle Obama · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 39 min · 15,178 words · 140 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "The Look Live from DC: Legacy, Oprah, and That Tan Suit | The Look", an episode of Michelle Obama published November 28, 2025 (1 h 39 min, about 15,178 words). It mentions 68 people, works and ideas, including Jeremy Carl, Mr. President, The White House, Attorney General, Cologuard.

What this episode is about

The main topic explores the significance of Michelle Obama's first edition clothing line gift and its broader implications, illustrating how it represents a moment of celebration and acknowledgment in a larger narrative of change and possibility. The discussion highlights the unexpected nature of such gestures amid the backdrop of her impactful legacy and the importance of documenting extraordinary events in history through literature.

Key takeaways

  • Gift rejection is the true virtue test when hidden under heaps of Ralph Lauren couture.
  • Books aren't just heavy; they're weighted reminders of history's indelible marks on society.
  • Tripping on Air Force One's stairs: instant meme. Untripped: remains untold heroics.
  • Michelle's Z-Pose shows even former First Ladies feel the clashing panic.
  • The Obama Center: dresses on display, but the tan suit is the real show-stopper.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Obama Presidential Center, Rivian, Wesley Morse
  2. – 20:00: The White House, Attorney General, Mr. President, West Wing
  3. – 30:00: Attorney General, Barbara Bush, Gloria Vanderbilt, Gloria Vanderbilt jeans
  4. – 40:00: Amika Stylist Collective, Mr. President, Pequila Riley, True and Pure Textures Extensions
  5. – 50:00: Mr. President, Nina Turner, Attorney General, Capitol
  6. – 1:00:00: Sergio Hudson, Versace, Attorney General, Capitol
  7. – 1:10:00: Progressive Insurance, American Cancer Society, First Lady as a verb, uppayment program
  8. – 1:20:00: Attorney General, Desmond Tutu, Mr. President, The White House
  9. – 1:30:00: Arab country, Attorney General, Mr. President, Sistine Chapel
  10. – 1:39:29: Brandy Melville, Shopify Magic, Shopify Sidekick, The White House

Notable quotes from "The Look Live from DC: Legacy, Oprah, and That Tan Suit | The Look"

  • Short sleeves and pants, and that's it's kind of like how the West Wing, East Wing felt. It felt like the East Wing was where there was color and light and joy. We had apples.
    about West Wing · at
  • So I mean you have invoked that part of the White House.
    about The White House · at
  • So yeah, and but every president has the right to do what they want in that house.
    about Mr. President · at
  • I was you all don't have nice stuff? I would think like all of you are. Tina Turner is.
    about Nina Turner · at
  • Morning after the prayer breakfast, and then you get in the cars, you go to the Capitol.
    about Capitol · at
  • Can we talk about the Sergio Hudson I mean all of these I believe I b l these appeared together, I believe, in the I'm gonna call this the breaking the.
    about Sergio Hudson · at
  • That it was going to break the internet. there's some of these moments, the Versace dress. I put that on.
    about Versace · at
  • That's why I appreciate what Progressive is doing.
    about Progressive Insurance · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Jeremy Carl — Person · 10 mentions
  • Mr. President — Person · 9 mentions · first at
  • Sasha — Person · 6 mentions
  • Sergio Hudson — Person · 3 mentions · first at
  • Nina Turner — Person · 2 mentions · first at
  • Jason Wu — Person · 2 mentions
  • Jose Cardenal — Person · 2 mentions
  • Ralph Lauren — Person · 2 mentions
  • Wesley Morse — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Thank you, thank you for you guys, w Wesley Morse.
  • Farah Jasmine Griffin — Person · 1 mention · first at
  • Gloria Vanderbilt — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Appreciate the value of a well made pair of pants because all you want are the Gloria Vanderbilt jeans with the swan on them. So there's a lot of wanting when you grow up poor, you know?
  • Goldie Hawn — Person · 1 mention · first at
  • Barbara Bush — Person · 1 mention · first at
    The facades of how things were maintained, Barbara Bush is maybe the only person I could find who was really sort of piercing.
  • Pequila Riley — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Versatility for my clients, I know that True and Pure Textures Extensions, founded by Pequila Riley, who's a part of the Amika Stylist Collective, is my go-to. Yeah.
  • Oscar de la Renta — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Oscar de La Renta, he just got the opportunity.
  • Desmond Tutu — Person · 1 mention · first at
    I did push ups with Desmond Tutu.
  • Akira the Dawn — Person · 1 mention
  • Brent Cozzi — Person · 1 mention
  • Gayle King — Person · 1 mention
  • Yanae — Person · 1 mention
  • Yene — Person · 1 mention
  • Zac Posen — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

  • Bible — Book · 1 mention
  • Time — Book · 1 mention

Companies & orgs

  • Versace — Company · 3 mentions · first at
  • Progressive Insurance — Company · 3 mentions · first at
  • IMO — Company · 3 mentions
  • Alaïa — Company · 2 mentions
  • Laugh-In — Company · 2 mentions
  • Obama Presidential Center — Company · 1 mention · first at
    The Obama Presidential Center opens in June, you all.
  • Soul Train — Company · 1 mention · first at
    You wanna look like the pretty girls on Soul Train, but your parents are broke and your mother sews your clothes and you're mad about it because you don't appreciate the value of a well.
  • Princeton — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Seen a few pictures and there's definitely at least one in the book of you at Princeton at some point, and Farah like almost really beautifully close reads this in her foreword.
  • Amika Stylist Collective — Company · 1 mention · first at
    That True and Pure Textures Extensions, founded by Pequila Riley, who's a part of the Amika Stylist Collective, is my go-to. Yeah.
  • American Cancer Society — Company · 1 mention · first at
    The American Cancer Society now recommends that if you're at average risk, you should start screening for colon cancer at age 45.
  • Brandy Melville — Company · 1 mention · first at
    But it y that's very different, teenage ch children, that Brandy Melville period.
  • loveamika.com — Company · 1 mention
  • Penguin Random House — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

  • Cologuard — Product · 6 mentions
  • Shopify.com/IMO — Product · 2 mentions
  • Gloria Vanderbilt jeans — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Appreciate the value of a well made pair of pants because all you want are the Gloria Vanderbilt jeans with the swan on them. So there's a lot of wanting when you grow up poor, you know?
  • True and Pure Textures Extensions — Product · 1 mention · first at
    And when I want fullness or versatility for my clients, I know that True and Pure Textures Extensions, founded by Pequila Riley, who's a part of the Amika Stylist Collective, is my go-to. Yeah.
  • The Beast — Product · 1 mention · first at
    When you're in the beast in that moment and you're driving down and you see the you know Actual vehicle, the B The beast and you don't.
  • uppayment program — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Through their newly created uppayment program, Progressive is helping first generation home buyers move closer to the dream of home ownership by offering eligible applicants a chance to.
  • Shopify Magic — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Shopify Sidekick, Shopify Magic, and their entire suite of AI tools, directions reports editing images, content ideas.
  • Shopify Sidekick — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Shopify Sidekick, Shopify Magic, and their entire suite of AI tools, directions reports editing images, content ideas.
  • Airbnb.com/services — Product · 1 mention
  • coligard.com/podcast — Product · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

Places & events

  • The White House — Place · 8 mentions · first at
  • West Wing — Place · 3 mentions · first at
  • Capitol — Place · 2 mentions · first at
  • South Lawn — Place · 1 mention · first at
    We were thinking about those kids like us who were outside of the gates of the South Lawn looking in, or maybe not even getting down to Pennsylvania Avenue, not knowing what it meant to be in the White House,.
  • Pennsylvania Avenue — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Outside of the gates of the South Lawn looking in, or maybe not even getting down to Pennsylvania Avenue, not knowing what it meant to be in the White House, not knowing what a state dinner was, not knowing what those rooms.
  • Sistine Chapel — Place · 1 mention · first at
    That's if you're you can be in the Sistine Chapel in shorts and a t shirt, but if you go on upstairs to see the Pope, y there is a way to dress.
  • Arab country — Place · 1 mention · first at
    If you were visiting an Arab country, the amount of rules and who you can touch and who you can't and what you can't do as a woman, all of that is very.
  • Bryn Mawr — Place · 1 mention
  • Washington Monument — Place · 1 mention

Sponsors

Full transcript with timestamps

She sends a box of then Ralph Lorenz's first edition clothing line. It was like three suits, seven sweats. I mean, it was an Oprah-sized gift, and this shows up in my door in this big locker trunk as a thank you. And I'm sitting there, like with all these clothes, feeling like I've been Oprahed. It's just like, wow, you get a car, and you get a car, and there's sweaters coming out, and it's all this great stuff, every color. It's like, my God, this woman is rich.

But because my husband, who is my husband, he's like, we can't keep that. It's like, it's like, what? He's like, I'm in office, we don't accept gifts. Imagine that. This episode is brought to you by Rivian and Koleguard. Hi! Ooh. That is a very religious high. I mean, you know, it can be church anywhere. Okay. So I'm gonna bring Mrs. Obama out, but I just wanted to say something before we before we started just about this book. It's very short. I'm gonna look at my phone to do it. First of all, I put this, I have a baking scale, a kitchen scale.

Just for kicks last night, I just put it on the scale. 4.12. That is that's a heavy book. And I just want to talk about the meaning of a book being this heavy. Because I mean this book is proof that something happened. Something unprecedented and extraordinary for millions of people. Like we're all here because we know that something extraordinary happened. And it expanded people's lives, it changed people's lives, it changed the way people look at the world, what they think is possible. And this book, this 4.1 pound book.

I mean it's documentation that all of that actually happened. And the reason to say that is because we live in a moment where people are gonna try to say that it didn't. And it did. And this book is documentation of that. So with that,

give it up for Michelle Obama. Hi everybody! Woo! That was a catwalk. Ha ha! I was just like, just don't trip. Don't fall. Have you ever tripped? You know, Wesley, that i people wonder, well, what were you thinking here? What were you thinking there? I was like, don't trip, don't fall, don't fall down these stairs of Air Force One. No, I never tripped because that was all I was thinking about. Whether it was stairs or a long walk or heels, it was just like just one foot at a time. Don't become a meme. Yeah. Ha. Now you've got other memes.

I do, I do, but fa I didn't want falling to be one of one. Those are the ones you want. Thank you, thank you for you guys, w Wesley Morse. Man Thank you. I specifically ask for this brother to do this because you are one of the smartest most diverse thinking, broad-minded men that I know. And I am I'm always impressed. I really appreciate that. Thank you. Let's see how true that is about. All right, so I I I feel like where I wanna start. Okay. First of all, how you doing? I'm good. I'm good. But it's not there. I'm home.

It's like everybody's here. It's like half the people in the audience. I know y'all. And half the other the other half I know. Right. 'Cause my sister drove 'em up here one day. There they are. Wesley brought like a busload of people. My sister Robin did it. Okay. Okay, Rob. And I'm glad I'm glad they did. Glad they came. But I feel I feel good. I'm I'm feeling good. Glad to be home. Looking forward to this is the last live event. I'll do a little more press in LA in December and then y'all that's it. So I think the second sort of like small talky question I have to ask 'cause people wanna know what are you wearing?

W well Wesley knows that I forgot to check before I put this dress on so we Doesn't even look at the label. I didn't look. I didn't li I knew what it was I was gonna wear, but I don't remember sometimes and Meredith couldn't be here because she wasn't feeling well. So this is vintage Zach Posen. Oh yeah, yeah. And I was gonna wear something else and then you said you were wearing a suit and a tie. And I was like, Ooh, okay. Wait a minute, hold on. He said a mint soup. What happened was Well what had happened? I got a text from somebody.

Аскін, вот аюринг тонай вознафрон майсисте у Why didn't you know what I was gonna wear? And I'm like, okay. But there was no like there were no caveats. No, there was no dress. Julia wrote back and was like, Everybody just wants to make sure you guys aren't clashing. That's right. What would clashing look like under these circumstances? Because I wore Because I wore if if you were gonna come out in a tux or if you were coming out in jeans because there was no dr dress code. So I try to keep in mind like I don't wanna come out in a ball gown and you're in jeans, right?

So almost wore a tux. Well then I would have worn something else. I I had a long conversation with Robin about whether I should wear the tux. And I just decided I just wanted to be comfortable. And you are, and you look good. Also, I don't wanna be triggering to you. Like you look at people in tuxes all the time. Oh, you did Not anymore though. Bring the pistachio. It's been eight years. Barack's Tuck is tucks is tucked away. Okay. Yeah. The one tux. Oh you are by the way, he got another tux finally. A like he has two or he replaced the old one.

He probably replaced the old one. So the old one's going to I mean it's a couple of while we have a Smithsonian Let's go on to the real real. Yeah, we have we have a whole museum where stuff can go. And I'm sure that's the only thing that's gonna be there. The the Obama Presidential Center opens in June, you all. That's another and there will be a big celebration. But as part of the exhibit, the archives of many of my dresses will be there. And I keep telling Brock, that's what people are coming for. They're coming for the dresses, so they're gonna be many of them up, and then he'll probably have that tan suit.

And that'll be that'll be his contribution. So y'all left. So y'all laugh at that tan suit. That was meaningful to me. I mean we can come back to this because I would like to talk about his experience in clothes as far as you're concerned. There were were no experiences. That's a short answer. He's just now getting his fashion edge together. He's trying to keep up, but he's the kind of he's the kind of guy that has a pair of khaki pants from the gap and he just goes and replaces that pair of khaki pants. He's a man.

The girls and I we're shocked when he has on a color. And we try to encourage him. It's like, oh, it's purple, it's lavender. Oh dad, you look great. I mean it's black, blue, tan gray. That's his story. He could not write a book. But I guess I'm not even gonna read between the the lines of like you can't write a book. But what I will ask, I mean, we're kind of like we'll just we're just having a conversation now. So I'm just wondering, like, what do you think his experience was like? You know, in terms of his sartorial choices, and did you have a preference?

Were you like, did you ever hope you'd come out of the room? Because one of the most beautiful descriptions in the book is what was going on on one side of a door. Mm-hmm and what was anticipating what was gonna come out or through those doors on the other side. So he's waiting for you, event after event, to emerge in the clothes that we all see that this book is full of. Did you ever hope you'd open the door and see something different? I knew I wasn't. I I knew I wasn't going to. I mean, that's just not, you know, Barack, that's that's not a part of who he is.

He is not a f a fashion person. He and he looks good and everything. I mean he's tall, he's handsome. You know, so he's got a blue suit, a gray suit, a white tie, a white shirt, a blue shirt, maybe a stripe. I mean, it's like a handful of things, and I knew what they were gonna be. So I mean, I just I did just truthfully know. I was like, he's like the steady, you know, I'm he's there, and I'm always the flower. It's like there, you know, I'm in a dress, I'm in colors, I'm in, you know, I'm in short sleeves and pants, and you know, and that's it's kind of like how the West Wing, East Wing felt. It felt like the East Wing was where there was color and light and joy. We had apples and children and puppies and there was laughter.

And I I don't know if we have any Obama folks here, any West Wingers. I know we've got some East Wingers over there, and you know when the West Wing would come, the State Department, they would come for briefings if we were doing something. They always felt a little lighter. They were like, wow, you know, my office was had a pink hue, it had pretty colors in it. We always had flowers. Then you go to the West Wing and it was war, death. Horrible things, Congress. Okay, we're done.

And so that's that was sort of our sartorial he was he w he was serious and we were joyful. I mean, well we're here now. So I mean you have invoked that part of the White House. Everything you're describing is light and flowers and joy and welcome is rubble. And I'm wondering how it feels I'm wondering a few things about the East Wing aspect of your time in the White House. Because that was where you were. Yeah. You did a lot of your work there. Mm-hmm. You welcomed people there. Music got events happened here. The social office was there, the volunteer office was there, the place that welcomed visitors because we did have a lot of visitors.

I mean, that was one of the things we wanted to do in the the White House was open it up. You know, our view was this is not our house. We are here to do a job, we're here for a term, we're here for a moment. We are caretakers of this history. And it's about bringing more people in. I mean, I always I was always the kid growing up on the south side of Chicago that didn't feel welcome in some of these fancy places. You go to the big store downtown, and if you know, all of a sudden somebody's following you, or you go into the museum and people think that you don't belong.

When Barack and I were there, we were thinking about those kids like us who were outside of the gates of the South Lawn looking in, or maybe not even getting down to Pennsylvania Avenue, not knowing what it meant to be in the White House, not knowing what a state dinner was, not knowing what those rooms look like because a lot of those kids didn't feel invited in. But those were the people who got us there. So our goal was to make that house as open as possible. And the East Wing, that was the place where that work got done.

Along with all the work that I did on the initiatives, I had five initiatives throughout the eight years, and that work got done. In that in in the east wing. That's where the first lady staff is was located. So yeah, and but every president has the right to do what they want in that house. So that's why we gotta be clear on who we let in.

Okay, I'm gonna change the subject back Back to the book. Ha ha. Because I I really want to talk about the title. Of the book. Yes. Mm-hmm. Because the title to me is deep. Like you could have called this armor uniforms but you called it the look. And I'm the things that come up when I hear this title are I mean, there are a lot of things. Like who who's looking? Yeah. Which look? Who were you aware of looking at you? Which look suited? Which time is a lot of what's a lot. Talk to me about the title. Well I that I have to give a lot of credit to and I wanna take a moment just just to shout out Pingram Random House, my publishers, my longtime publishers, and I know you guys are here.

You know, there's always the point when in these books where it comes time to what are we gonna call this? Yeah. Right. And like so much of what I do, it's a collaborative effort. And I I think, you know, this the title is so good that when and and I don't know who threw it out, but once it was out there, everybody said that's it. That's it. It says it all. Every word and even the the picture on the cover was gonna be a different picture because we wanted to have a cover picture that nobody had seen before. And then I don't know of whether it was Chuck, or w which White House photographer, I think it was Chuck that that took this who was it?

Chuck Chuck, it was Chuck. This was the photo shoot from my official White House portrait. So no one had ever seen this, but I forgot about this shot and then he showed it to the team and that look, that sort of like we start the book with this is kind of where it began, but this book takes us on a complete arc. So this is like this is the beginning, and then there's more. But I think the look it just the the title itself just speaks for itself and when you talk to the publishers, they always want one word, one word for a title, right?

Yeah, that's where we are becoming. It's one. What we want. I see David over there. So it was a team effort, but when you know, when when those words hit the the Zoom meeting we all agreed that was it. And it's about all of it. Right. Yes, this book is about being looked at, what you're what how you look and what you look, it's how you want to be perceived, it's all of that. So while the it's a book full of beautiful pictures and it's a a wonderful coffee table book, I urge people to read the essays. The Forward by Farrah Griffin.

That is an excellent It is an excellent forward. That was something that I knew when we started talking about the book. I knew that I wanted Farah, who is a historian, sociologist, brilliant woman, dear friend, just to set the tone for why even talk about fashion. That because it's not about fashion, it's about culture, it's about race, it's about a woman's journey, it's about my journey. Farah helps to provide a wonderful context to the the essays that follow. So it's there's a lot in there.

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I found it really impressive that the Koleguard test has been used to screen for colon cancer more than 20 million times. It's a no-prep, that's right, no prep colon cancer screening test that is delivered to your door. No excuses. After seeing the lab firsthand, I really want to encourage anyone 45 or older at average risk to talk to their healthcare provider about getting screened with Kolaguard. You can even request a prescription online at ColGuard.com. Don't wait. Taking control of your health is something you can do today.

Let's talk about let's look at what's in there. I we've got a deck of images from the book. And I just sort of wanna hear you think through some of the I mean, you know, you all will leave here with this book, you're gonna see them, but like I would like to do some close reading on some of these some of these pictures. I you know this is little Michelle Robinson at Brynmar High or gr elementary school. I m that must have been first grade, maybe third grade, it was probably first grade. And that was probably gym day because that's a sweatshirt.

And I think my mom was still doing my hair, so that was one of those quick you do the ponytails and put 'em up. But that was a typical going to public school. I d didn't have much control over my look because I had no money, I had no resources. This was a child that, you know, and and I was a still a bit of a tomboy then because I had an older brother and I was surrounded by boys. I was athletic, I loved to keep up, I boxed with my male cousins, I played catch anything my brother was doing, I was doing. So I wanted to be, if I if I had to describe my fashion desire, I wanted to be Jose Cardinal, who was the first baseman on the Chicago Cubs.

And I would pick my braids out into a big fro because he wore his Chicago Cubs cap with his butt. And when I wasn't at school, that's how I wanted my hair. I wanted to be Jose Cardinal, of the Cubs, first baseman. And you write a lot c next can we have the next set of images? Or this is the next okay. And then I grew up. So before we talk about this phase of your life, I want to actually go back and think a little bit about how you as a young person were thinking about what to wear. You n there was a lot of dreaming and wishing.

It just you know, when you're young you just wanna do what the cool kids do. You wanna look like the pretty girls on Soul Train, but your parents are broke and your mother sews your clothes and you're mad about it because you don't appreciate the value of a well made pair of pants because all you want are the Gloria Vanderbilt jeans with the swan on them. So there's a lot of wanting when you grow up poor, you know? Because and maybe that's a good thing because there's a period of you don't get what you want. It wasn't an expectation.

Fa there was no fashion, it was practicality. I write about the fact that I used to l watch laughing young people. I mean, laughing. Laughing is a very good thing. Great sixty sketch sketch show. It's a comedy theme. It was one it was one of the first sketch comedy shows. It was like a It was like the ethnic. Goldie Hawn, remember her? She's like 90 now, but she remember her Michelle. I'm talking to the young people, they don't know what we're talking about. But she used to dance in short mini dresses and these patent leather go-go boots.

And I wanted a pair of white Patent leather go go boots. I lived in Chicago. It was snow. You know, my mom would look, listen, laugh, and then she'd pick up those rubber boots that you put over your shoe. You'd need to put a plastic bag over your shoe, galoshids, but they came all the way up. Yes, I know. Was so sad. But you know, we I had no choice. So I think I was probably dreaming of a time when I could ditch my mother's new ways and go out on my own. She was your first She was your first stylist, really. Oh yeah.

My mother was not a style icon. She was a practical woman. I love my mother. And she was very crafty. She sewed everything. She sewed our drapes. She she made cushion covers. I mean, I don't you know, my mom didn't work until I went to high school, but she she got stuff done. I mean, you'd come home and the whole house would be remade. It's like, what are you doing? You know, my mom didn't shop for herself. She was one of those typical mothers. She put all of her energy into us. So she wasn't somebody that I looked to. She rare rarely dressed up. She wouldn't go to the hairdresser until we all made her. So no, my mother was not my fashion role model. So I think as a young person, I did know what nice stuff looked like, you know.

But it was something out there to be had. There are are a few pictures I've seen a few pictures and there's definitely at least one in the book of you at Princeton at some point, and Farah like almost really beautifully close reads this in her foreword. And it's you with your hair and braids and you got a denim jacket on, and the d the jacket is buttoned or fastened at the bottom. It's the only thing. Yeah. That I was gonna say that is style. Yeah. That is style operating. I knew it was out there. I knew I knew what it could be, right? But you don't you know, you don't get to actualize it until you get a graduate, get a degree, get a job, pay your loans off, and then maybe you can explore fashion. So it wasn't until I was i even when I was practicing law, you know, it was the the e eighties, nineties business suits.

Mm-hmm. Ladies, you know those horrible suits with the big shoulder pads. It was the uniform and you'd get a red one or maybe a blue one and maybe a tweet jacket and a black. It was very sad. Sad lawyer corporate clothes with nylons, which I hated nylons. It was the that's a man invented nylons. Yeah. I mean, those things it's just cruel and expensive and they run all the time. So th I even when I had resources, I lived in a uniform of work. You know, there weren't casual Fridays. Everybody had to wear suit all the time. So it probably wasn't until I became a public figure that I not only had the resources but the necessity to really think about how I had to show up.

And I had some flexibility. So but until then I was I was just getting through the day. It was like you know, I write about what it was like to even think about shopping for a suit for Barack's big convention speech. I mean, I was a typical mother. We were running around, I had a job, I had little kids, and it was like, Oh my god, he's speaking at this convention thing. I need a s and I now It's an amazing part of this book. Because I will just can I I'll interrupt to just say one thing that's extraordinary about this book that we I I can't I've not read every First Lady's memoir.

But I did do some digging around before we hooked up. And just the facades of how things were maintained, you know, Barbara Bush is maybe the only person I could find who was really sort of piercing. The the sort of glamor bubble a little bit about like what it like what well you quote her in the book actually about what she will not be doing. Yeah yeah. But I also feel like it's important to think about the the honesty of this thing, right? The things you were letting people see in terms of, you know, smoke and mirrors.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. The process of it all. In terms of the the stresses and the uncertainties. Like if I'm gonna connect with pe the whole point is like if you're gonna help people, especially young people, they have to see you. They they can't see some facade. They can't think that it's all magic because then they don't think they can do it. So why I am so brutally honest about all the things. It's like, yeah, you know, this is it looks good, but it's you know, swans and paddling under the water. I just want I I I think my honesty is directed at young people who covet and look and want to be, and I want people to know what it all is. Let's talk about it all.

And so dressing for me was like that. I was a typical working m mother, with a busy husband who was in politics and traveled a lot. So I heard that I had to walk on stage with him after his speech, and it was like, Oh my god, I I can't just wear one of these horrible suits, you know. I gotta I gotta think of something. So it's a mad dash to Bloomingdale's. Why Bloomingdale's? Because you could park there and get your parking validated. I mean that's how you think, you know, it's like I'm going where they validate and so you know, that that's how I dress.

Is like, oh my God, I gotta run and do this. And then I've gotta dress two little girls. So there's also a cute little girls dress place in Bloomingdale. So I was like, I can hit that. Get two little outfits, the suit for mom, and back in the car in time for the next meeting. That's that that was the light. So you were doing this on your lunch break. Yes. In between, you know, soccer and ballet and the eighth birthday party of the weekend. Well during this period though I I kind of want to talk about what I would describe as like your through the looking glass moment with respect to like how you were gonna present yourself and like what it would feel like to go through the looking glass. So you you have this on page 44 of your book.

Oh my goodness. See, this is why I like this guy. There's a story that you tell about well, I think it's forty three and forty four. All right. Forty or forty-four. Anyway, the point because there's some pictures in between. Oprah comes and interviews you. Mm-hmm. The both of you. Which sounds crazy, right? Oprah comes to your house and interviews you. That's what life was like. It's like she's coming to our house. This is before I mean Does she know who you are, Barat? She thinks you're important. Okay, all right.

Well, get ready. Like wow. Now that my my motto then was must have been a good speech, right? It's like he gave that speech and all of a sudden everybody knew who he was. And I was like, It's a good speech, you did a great job. Let's go home. We gotta get back. Get in we're in Boston and then all the while it just got more ridiculous. He was on the cover of time and I was like, What? Oprah's coming? This actually does sound surreal. Just imagine this person. How long did you guys been married at this point? Oh, we had been married seven, eight years math. Okay.

It's been a while. Do the math, y'all. It was we had kids. The kids were little, so Just to like watch this person who is just some regular schmegular guy who you know has something special. For sure. But Yeah. To see everybody else figure out what made you marry 'em is a different Story. Oh wow, you guys are paying attention to this. So yeah, Oprah comes over. So she comes over. Has the interview. She's so grateful that y'all took the time to do it. Mm-hmm. Sends you a gift. This is Oprah. It wasn't a car, but it was close Now I don't want to step on any punchlines here, but I know what would have happened to that car.

She sends you a suit, like a camel suit. She sends a box of then Ralph Lorenz edition clothing line. It was like three suits, seven sweats. I mean, it was an Oprah sized gift, and this shows up at my door in this big locker trunk as a thank you. And I'm sitting there, like with all these clothes, feeling like I've been Oprahed. It's just like, wow, you get a car, and you get a car, there's sweaters coming out, and it's all this great stuff, every color. It's like, my God, this woman is rich.

But because my husband, who is my husband, he's like, we can't keep that. It's like, that's like, what? He's like, I'm an office, we don't accept gifts. Imagine that. Mm-hmm. It's like they're all lovely, pack them up and send them back. So I called Oprah. Yep, I called Oprah, and I was like, I can't keep all these things. And she was like, what? She's like, yeah, Barack's in office, you know, there's I mean, you're really not supposed to s accept gifts. She's like, but it's for me. And it's like, yeah, but you know.

So we sent that stuff back. I know. Listen. But there's a happy ending to it because he was a state senator. He stepped down a state senator, was running for US senator. In between that time when he wasn't in office, Oprah sent the clothes back. What? Yeah. Yes. She was watching, she was like, take 'em now, girl, take 'em now.

All right, Mish, Michelle. We have done so many fun looks together over the years. One of my personal favorites is when we started wearing your natural curls. And for me, I love it because I felt like it was the opening of the freedom of post-life, Michelle. Yeah. Where you were in control and you got to do whatever you wanted with your hair. Tell me so you know, that's the vibe that she felt as well. I I Agree. I mean, I l I love I I loved my hair all the time because I had wonderful stylists like you helping me.

So I never had to worry about it. Mm-hmm. But as you know, there I I always wanted to have the freedom to live my life without you. Yeah. I didn't wanna you know, I didn't wanna feel like I couldn't go out, I couldn't do anything unless Yanae was there making it happen. So when we started to go into the natural looks and wearing my natural curl curls and even working with in Jerry with braids, I mean the freedom that you're talking about I know you love your brains. She loves the braids. Well, because I'm also very active.

Yes. I'm swimming all the time. I'm playing tennis and and I can do it myself, whether you're there or not. But the natural style that you structured, I loved it because it was fully me. It was free. It was also a representation to all textured girls out there that our hair comes in all different shapes, sizes, and and colors. And the sh this straight look and bouncy look is wonderful. It's fun. But the way our hair curls naturally is also beautiful and full and alive in ways that we got to celebrate. Absolutely. And the other thing is is that with braids and natural hair, you are able to be in control, right?

And it, and I think that particularly when you started wearing your hair natural, it was the rite of passage that everyone else was just like, okay, Michelle's doing it. I could do it too. Right. Like everybody love the flowy, bouncy and I love that too. But I also love the versatility that our hair has. We have our hair can be a chameleon and we there's so much that we could do with it. And so you are able to embody that and show that to everyone to kind of give them be like, all right, girl, you could do this too, which is extremely important.

You know that I'm very big on making sure that your hair isn't just looking beautiful, but that it stays healthy. Absolutely. And that goes back to the products that we use. So you know that I love your braids, and I love that the braids give you the versatility that you want, and which is why we've played with you parts, we've played with wigs, we've done so many different things to master the look that you want for the time and place that you are and whatever you're doing. So I love Amika. We use Amika on your hair all the time, and it is a Brooklyn born salon powered brand.

Which I love that. Yeah. Yes, it's made by stylists. It is high performing and it has amazing ingredients like Seabuck Therm for visible results. It's designed to meet all hair needs. It gives us hydration, strength, smoothness, and shine. Amika is built with stylists, not just for them, which makes pro hair care joyful, approachable, and inclusive for all. And when I want fullness or versatility for my clients, I know that True and Pure Textures Extensions, founded by Pequila Riley, who's a part of the Amika Stylist Collective, is my go-to. Yeah.

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Okay, so I just wanted to hear Oprah's side of the story. So I reached out to Oprah Winfrey. Of course you did. She got back to me. Okay. And what she her hers her version of the story, you guys, perfect, perfect alignment. 'Cause it happened. And Yeah. But what she wanted me to know was that there was another story. Okay. What she's talking about the Yes. She has her legends ball. Yeah. Y'all she invited me to the Legends Ball. As what Oprah called a youngin'. Yeah. 'Cause you were a young enough. I was the youngin', but I was still like you know, Coretta Scott King was there.

Tina Turner, Carter Scott King. I kept walking up to her I said, Oprah, are you sure I'm you meant to have me here? She was like, Yeah, go sit down. You're supposed to be here. When Oprah ghosts down you like Yeah, where you should just like stop asking me that. Go sit down. Don't don't cross that water. That's right. But she said that, you know, every year at her Legends events, she gives a gift to every everybody who goes, the Legends get one, the young'uns get one. And normally at the Legends events, she says, she gives out pajamas.

Every year she was given out pajamas. And this particular your year. Well, it was her fiftieth birthday, so it was a big year for her. It's a big it was the big one, right? Well. Gail is like, girl, don't be giving people pajamas. Enough with the pajamas. We've we've enough. Don't do it. So Oprah's like, what can I give people? What would mean a lot that aren't pajamas that would really entertain everybody and not take Gail off? So she's like, what about a little di black and black diamond hoop earring? Well there were two different types of earrings.

And the teardrop And then the young ones got these big diamond hoops with black and white diamonds on either side. So we're at this luncheon where everybody gets the gift and they're opening up again. You get a car, you get diamonds, you get diamonds. And I open mine up and I look at Oprah. And she's like, You can't keep that. I was like, I can't keep these. So everybody's like, they're putting their diamonds on. You know, and all these, these are like great. I was like, you all don't have nice stuff? I would think like all of you are. Tina Turner is.

Tina Turner is just rolling in the aisles. Like I'm the only one in that group that doesn't that's broke, right? And they were so happy with these diamonds and I was like, You know I can't keep this and she's like, Really? I was like, I can't? I can't keep it because he was a US senator then. Well, her version of this story, once again, y'all are on the newlywed game, your stories match up. But what she what she really wanted to emphasize in telling me this second story was that y'all are good people. Y'all are wanted to stay on the right side of all the laws because I mean you know how it is. I mean, count the people who every day you hear about people taking gifts and the gifts are like gold bars.

This is a gift from the one of the most famous people on planet Earth. Can't keep it. And I think what she the re she wanted me to run it by you, but she also wanted me and the rest of us to know that from the beginning. Y'all were ethical.

Conscientious. And you know, she knew she knew she'd chosen the right people to align her values with. Yeah. So Well that starts at the top. And that's you know, one of the reasons why I love many reasons why I love and respect my husband. That's who he is. He's doesn't, you know, he's not extravagant, but he believes in the importance of symbolism. And when you are the commander in chief, there's a standard at which, you know, you have to set for the American people. And some of these things aren't even laws, they're just norms, they're just things that you do because you don't want the people to feel like wealthy people have a different level of access and you know, access to power.

So that means you gotta say no a lot. Our motto was like if it looks like fun, we can't do it. Ha ha ha. Yeah. Oh my god, put that on every bumper sticker in this town. All right, but let's talk about some of the symbolism. Can we have well let's do the slide that was previously up and then we'll just sort of go through them. So this is you wearing Jason Woo to the inaugural to one of the inaugural balls. The first the first one. Talk to me about this. The joy the moment the dress, what the experience was like. 'Cause this is you going through another Porno.

Yes, for sure. I mean there were so many portals at this at the in the in this time in our lives. And it was all very surreal. The whole day was surreal. I mean many of you all were there. It was eight hundred below. It was like the coldest weather of all. Panny Hope. Two pairs of pantios. I should have had on boots. I didn't even realize. See, this is what I learned in the second inauguration. I was like, I'm putting on boots. And then it was like seventy. But it was a long day that started with a prayer breakfast.

So I I'm of course up at five AM, right? Because that's what women have to do. We have to get up to get hair and makeup done, and then the girls have to get ready and mom and you've got family and friends, so it's all a little spinny when that's going on. And so you go to the White House, you make that transition in the morning after the prayer breakfast, and then you get in the cars, you go to the Capitol. And that's when it gets otherworldly. When you're in the beast in that moment and you're driving down and you see the you know Actual vehicle, the B The the beast and you don't really see the breadth of that day until we walk out of the Capitol in that moment where you see the president, the family, everybody walk out, and that's when we saw what you would say, history.

It was like, oh my God, look at that. And when you grow up seeing the march on Washington, when you see the symbolism of what it means to be on the monument, and you're on the other side of that. I mean, that's when you're like, Whoa, this is this is something. This is and it should feel that way. You should feel the weight and the responsibility. I mean, the whole process is to ground the administration in the seriousness of the task you're about to take on and the responsibility, and that it is not about you, it is about all those people standing in the cold, you know, hoping for some kind of change.

But it is cold. And and then you know, to do it with little kids. I mean, you remember how little the girls were? They were just so you know, mothers with little kids. I'm just don't fall. Are you paying attention? Are you warm enough? You know, so I'm looking at the Bible, but I'm looking at Sasha teetering on a on a stool trying to look up, are they paying attention? Is somebody picking their nose? Because these pictures are gonna be historical. So, you know, I've got that going on in my mind while I'm trying to take this in.

And I I think being a mother in these moments helped to ground me. Because I couldn't get too wrapped up in it because there's the mothering part. Are they okay? What does this feel like for them? Do they feel seen in this moment? I mean, how are they emotionally? I'm constantly weighing their emotional energy through all of this as well. That's why clothes have to be secondary. It had to be like You mean you can't think about what you're wearing. I can't that was always my model. I had to set up enough of a process that allowed me to show up well, represented.

But then once the clothes were on, there was just too much going on. They had to fit, they had to move, they had to be warm, I had to know. We did all of that beforehand. So that once hair makeup, as my team who is here knows, it's like once it's done, don't touch me, don't look at me, don't come near me. I don't I barely look at myself when it's over. Because then the work happens. And that's the point. The point isn't the look, it's the look. It's us looking out for the country. It's us looking out for the nation. It's us looking out for all those people who are depending on us.

So the look goes both ways. See, this is why you're doing my job now. I don't think I mean because the title is infinite, right? It could it means like a thousand different things. So the so the this night that gown was just the the end of it and I will say that the choice of Jason Woo, I've said this before was intentional. The dress was beautiful, but we were beginning to realize that everything we did sent a message. Sometimes people would read the wrong thing into a fist bump into you know into everything into everything, into every single thing.

Which is why it's just like look, folks, when I tell my story, I'm not whining, I don't feel put upon. This is just what happened. And I hope it doesn't offend someone for me to tell you what happened in my life, because it is what happened to me, and it is the truth. As you said, if we don't tell it, there will be other people who will try to pretend like it didn't happen, but it did. And so there were a lot of things that we had to take into account. I mean, the fact that something, you know, anything was made of me wearing having my arms out was just a small indication of the kind of crazy attention that or standard of beauty or acceptability that was at play.

So we knew that everything was gonna send a message. So who I chose to design my gown was intentional. Jason Woo's An extraordinary designer. This was not a D I DEI hire. It was an affirmative action. It was the prettiest dress. It was the best dress that I put on. It made me feel ethereal. He just happened to be an immigrant kid, new to the business, who happened to be as talented, if not more, than some of the greats, who always got those opportunities. Oscar de La Renta, he just got the opportunity. And see, that's how the world shouldn't work.

You know, at some point, we the greats should step aside to let some of the young people get a chance. And so that was always. Beautiful clothes, but Let's look at some of the beautiful gloves. But I I always rept American designers of all races, of all all classes and these are well this just this is just shows the breadth of my style evolution. Can we talk about the Sergio Hudson I mean all of these I believe I b l these appeared together, I believe, in the I'm gonna call this the breaking the internet portion of the of the book.

Do you under like so I get sorry? I understand that one and that one in terms of like kapow, capal, kapow. Like blam. But I wanna say I love this country because that one, the Sergio Hudson, the the one you wore to the to to Joe Biden's inauguration, that to me is just one of the most bewitching Yeah yeah. Like outfits I've ever seen anybody wear. There is so much happening here that I have never seen on anybody. Really? I mean Well, think about when this was happening. Yeah. You're wearing a mask. Well nobody saw anybody.

That was also it. You know? It was like they were probably like, they're still alive. That's what I I I attribute some of that to. It's like, oh my god, mom and dad are still here. But she would never warn.

You had never worn anything like this to I mean, at least in terms of how we think about you in public, right? And just talk to me about how it felt to wear that and did you feel powerful in it? Because this is a power suit. It's a power suit. These are power clothes. Yeah. And so talk to me about what it felt to be in the Well, you know, a beautiful anything right makes you feel everything, right? I for that particular event, I mean, we all remember what just happened. January sixth happened. So to my mind, I was really in practical mode.

We didn't know what was gonna happen at this inauguration because the sitting president was trying to convince us that January sixth was just a peaceful protest. Right. So it wasn't clear whether anybody was gonna be safe. Were you safe at the Capitol where it just happened? So to my mind, where we usually travel with hair, makeup for touch-ups, staff assistants. I said, I don't want anybody with me inside this perimeter because if something pops off, I don't want to put my team in jeopardy. So I was like, we're getting dressed. I knew I wanted to wear pants because I was thinking, if I have to run No really because I was thinking I need to be comfortable, I need to I I that's not a heel.

The boot that I wore was a lower heel. I wanted to I wanted to be able to move. I wanted to be ready. Right. Yeah. This is offensive and defensive. Yeah. This is preemptive. And any power that comes just comes with the Yeah, we're we're here because this is important and it's important for us to show up. I think that's what was going through my mind, this feeling of we're gonna be okay. You know, democracy can withstand a lot and our presence has to represent that. I don't know that it was now the coat is beautiful, the the flow of the pant was was lovely.

Yes, all of that, but by then I was already I wasn't wearing a lot of dresses then. I had had my becoming book tour, so I was in pants more and more because I was just shifting away from that look into something else. And I was like, and I'm gonna continue that look here. And Sergio Hudson is a fabulous designer and he is he's known for his suits and his coats. Meredith pulled it out and once again I put it on, I felt good in it, I felt warm. And I we had no idea that it was going to break the internet. I mean, there's some of these moments, the Versace dress. I put that on.

I was like Yeah, this one. The gold boots. It's like, yeah, these are really, really cute. And I can Barack is the first test, right? So I walk out and he's like, Wow. And I'm like, it's a good one right? Yeah yeah. But that the the inaugural outfit was there was really a lot of practicality for me that went into that dressing because of the the be because of the circumstances. Can I read it a little more? Please. The belt. Oh, the belt. The belt is superhero, right? You think I mean I don't know what this is not about you.

If I'm doing my job. Yeah. The belt to me says Marvel. Marvel. It says strength. It also says I don't give a fuck. Like I did this I mean I don't know who you did it for, but it definitely felt like that was whatever it means to say for you for you. Yeah. I don't know, it's just such a No, that and that absolute once I left the White House, the res the responsibility of dressing for that job changed because I was not in that job anymore. I know a lot of young people say, Did you feel like you have to give up part of yourself to you know look when you're a professional, you dress for the job.

That's what I tell young people. It's like until you are have control and power and leverage, then you better look at what your boss is wearing and act accordingly because you need a paycheck. So be smart about it. You dress for the job, and the job of first lady was a different kind of job. When I was done with that, I was doing different job. I was my own boss. I wasn't I wasn't representing the nation in that way. So yes, those a lot of the and the Versace dress was the last state dinner. So that was a kind of I don't care dress.

Ha ha ha. Now I will tell you that one was like 'cause of the dresses that were available that rose gold, I put that on. I was like, This is sexy. It's the last one. This is like bye. When I was around 14 years old, I asked her if I could do it for her because I thought I could do a better job. She obliged, and soon after she started asking me to do her makeup a lot. I never knew makeup was a career until I was an adult. Now my work has introduced me to so many interesting experiences. I've worked in film, TV, print, fashion, and beauty all around the world.

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One photo we don't have with respect to that Versace dress that is in this book and Look at you with your your tabbed book. I put a tab on the book. There is a photo. Of can we talk about We talk about This Oh the the back? What page? It's in the section Probably my si Robin, isn't you? It's in the section of there's a whole section on inaugural gowns. It's just before page two ten. So what is it? You're looking at the draping of it? No. What are you looking at? What do you see? There's a photo of you fr I never watched you from behind.

I've never done it and it's it's not for the reasons you think. I'm just r it it just never It's not that's not what we're doing here. It looks good. It's it's a well it looks great, but I'm saying what are you saying?

Jeff Coons, Brent Coozie. This to me is like you can see your reflection in this dress. Yeah. And the one place where it's not draping is back there. And this this is this is you just said Yeah. Yes. This I d I D G A F. This is kiss my ass. Oh. This is the world is looking and can see themselves in this part of the dress. You can see the collection. Do it in the front. Right. In the front it's Well, now you're reading a lot into You put the ball on the team, Mrs. Obama. I'm gonna take a swing. Much all of my choices ultimately are what is beautiful and what looks beautiful on.

And I think as women, in the end, that's the whole point of it. I don't buy it. I don't pick it. I don't wear things because they're in. I don't I don't even know whether I'm gonna like a dress. I don't pick a dress from the rack because we all know something that looks good on the rack, you put it on and it's like, ooh, not for me. And that's one of the messages. It's like if you if you feel good with your arms out, wear your arms out. You know, if you feel good in nylons, then put them on. That was my philosophy.

Does anybody feel good in nylon? Some people do. I don't know. I I I did not like them. But you also look happy, like in a lot of those photos. I'm always happy. I I have is I I had a really great job and a great time doing it. And we got a lot done. I mean, there was so much joy in everything we did. And this is one of the things that I wanted to show in the book was the life of that White House. Just the vibrancy, the activity, the so, you know, we could have done just a series of photos of standing in pretty dresses, but when you open this book, you see you see kids, you see puppies, you see all the movement because we were an active White House.

And that and we were a joyful White House. One of the chapters is called First Lady as a verb. Yeah. I mean everything for me was about it was about moving the ball. I mean literally physically moving the ball. A ni an initiative, as my team will know in the East Wing, it was like, what are we going to do? We're not gonna announce something. I didn't want to be a symbolic first lady that was a slogan first lady. It's like, you know, just say whatever. I wanted to I I wanted to have tangible goals and outcomes that I could see because I came from that world of running a non profit.

I ran programs, I started things, I like to build things and see them go. Those are great verbs. I mean for real. So yes, I I was always a person that was thinking about moving things forward, going ahead, and that helped us get through. You know, if you're focused on the work, you know, just getting things done every day, then it makes all the hardships, all the thorns and arrows and all the haters and all the negative things, they just blow right off of you because you have an agenda in front of you. And if you focus on that agenda, which is what I would tell my team, that's what we're gonna focus on.

And cloth clothes were like that too. We're gonna figure out a process that we make this simple so that we're not while I have to wear a lot of clothes, I'm not gonna spend every day. I cannot spend every day thinking about what I'm gonna wear. I have to have this done quickly. We fit one day a month, we fit, we had the calendar, we knew what we were doing. Meredith, my stylist, brought clothes in, we fit them, we tried them on, done. So that the work could get done. And as I said, I was concerned about can I hug somebody in it? Will it get dirty?

I mean, I was the kind of first lady that there was no telling what I would do. Yeah. You know, I mean, I'd w walk out the house and hold a hoop. And I'm doing pushups, you know, and then people start I mean, in the time that I was I think I've caught a football pass from an NFL player. I played soccer with David Beckham. I did push ups with Desmond Tutu. I have done broken a Guinness World's record for jumping jacks. I mean, this and this would all happen on a day, you know. It could. It could be, you know, you're giving a speech on health here, you're meeting with the first lady of blah blah blah, and now you're digging up dirt in the backyard with kids.

So my clothes had to be ready for that. Because the thing about clothes that I find is that they can welcome people in or they can keep people away. And if you're so put together and so precious and things are so crisp and the pen is so big, you know, it can just tell people don't touch me. You know, if you're not dressed to bring people in. Great point about it. You know, your clothes can make people push away. It so I always wanted to be able to if a rope line was happening, if somebody was gonna be in tears and need a hug, we're not wearing white, we're gonna wear print if I have stuff to do because I'm not gonna leave some I'm not gonna push somebody away when they need something from me, and I'm not gonna let the clothes get in the way of that. And I had a team of people who understood that.

So, you know there there had to be a lot of thought. And that stuff had to be done well in advance. Well, I wanna talk about the team for a second because these people seem fantastic. They are. They've been around the entire time.

And I don't know, I mean Yene and and Jerry And Meredith, of course, Carl. Yeah. I wanna I want to take a second to talk about Carl. Yeah. Because there's a part, I mean, you know, everybody, one of the beautiful things about this book is that everybody who is on the team has a little section of the book where they talk about how they got started, what it's been like to work with you, what the the artistry that they practice, because I mean it's work, but it also is, and it's a talent, but it also is is art. And for like Carl's entry in this book, like I might start, I'm gonna read it. I'm gonna read part of it because I think it's beautiful.

Yeah. And I think that like it is such a it stands in for the whole of how many, many people think about you in a way that feels different from the way we've thought about people who've had this job before. Yeah. And I also think that it is a testament to I just can't imagine many other women allowing what Carl wrote to appear in print at all. Because it's just well, it's intimate. Yeah. And it's about you. So hold on, let me just read a little point. Okay. This is this is this is I love your this is Carl Ray writing about what it is like to do Michelle Obama's makeup.

Carl, are you listening? Carl's here? Carl is here. Carl's always here. Look at me. Don't I look like Carl's here? All right, so I'm gonna start Can you read it? You can't read. You can't see, can you? That was a b I'm sitting here going, Wow, he's got great eyesight. That's good enough to get me through this. I think I can do it. Hold it up real close or far away. I think I think I'm gonna do it. Depending on whatever she's doing later that day, I might add to that and then use some concealer. This is about the foundation.

She inherited amazing skin from her mother and has passed it on to her girls. I set her face with powder, which allows everything else to apply smoothly, and often I do a little quote, baking unquote, by applying extra powder beneath your opp beneath her eyes, down her nose and on her chin and forehead. We then finish with a setting spray. Her skin has red undertones, so I use warm bronze and gold tones to highlight and brighten her cheekbones and other high points of her face, and cooler brown tones for contouring and sculpting her jaw, nose, cheeks, and forehead, blending along the way to enhance the structure of her face.

If she's wearing an off-the-shoulder look, I apply shimmer or glow to her shoulders and date in decolletage. That's depending on what she's wearing, I sometimes even apply it down her arms and legs. Then I work on her eyes, my favorite part. I fill in the lids, often with gold, bronze, or soft peach, and then do a brown contour on each eye crease. I generally use a black pencil on her top lash line, sometimes follow it with a liquid eyeliner for a quote, kitten eye. We've gone full-blown cat on special occasions. I then use a black or brown coal eyeliner on her waterline.

Now I don't know what a waterline is. Is it just a th okay? Thank you, Carl. I learned something new. I then use a black or brown coal eyeliner on her waterline and fill in her eyebrows with a brow pencil and powder. Lips and lashes are generally last. For her mouth, I use a lip pencil, lipstick, and finish with a gloss. 75% of the time, I opt for a nude lip, which I do in a variety of tones, including peach brown caramel and pink. Nothing too distracting, always enhancing. I always want the focus to be on her message.

I'm gonna skip way ahead. Michelle remains my primary client. I've worked with her for 16 years, and I believe she's more beautiful now than ever before. I'm not done. She loves the fact that I'm fast. This is Fast. How long does this take? Fifteen minutes. Yeah. I mean, how long did it take the Tistine Chapel to happen? I mean, Michelle Remains my primary client. I've worked with her for 16 years, and I believe she's more beautiful now than she ever was before. She loves the fact that I'm fast. Sometimes she doesn't even look in the mirror when I'm done.

That's his exclamation point. Look at yourself, I'll say, you're beautiful. President Obama on multiple occasions has said, Carl, I want to thank you for making Michelle look and feel beautiful. And he always responds, My pleasure. He does. That's beautiful. So glad you read that. Yeah.

I find that so moving because it is like the care. I I didn't want to go into this really, but because it kind of doesn't need it's so obvious, it doesn't need to be said. But this is a black woman. This is a black woman who is in the White House. A place, I mean, I don't care what they say, she was never supposed to be. The idea that you were being beautified in a place that, you know, at many points in history were responsible for making sure you couldn't even write the words White House by a white man who loved you.

Is just that is America to me. That is yes it is. Yes it is. And I don't know. This book is deep. Because nobody talks about this stuff right? I mean you can get you can go to YouTube and see all kinds of beauty tutorials and all that stuff. But this isn't a tutorial. This is it's kind of like fashion criticism. It is an artist talking about his crap. Yeah. It is hearing about what it is like to practice that craft on an on an excellent person. I'm gonna say according to him, but I know, you know. I'm what is what is it, how does it feel to have gone through that experience where what is happening is is on the one hand, how you're supposed to look.

But beneath that really is about how you're feeling. Whew. You have a question? I mean you know, it's it's complicated because I I you know, as I said before, I think that you know life is such in during those times, even now, can be such a whirlwind. That there I I think this is the moment where I took the time to actually reflect on it. So what came up for you while you were reflecting on it? I mean, we have the book, but what was it like to write it? Well it was beautiful. It was a book that I always knew I wanted to write.

The question was always the timing of it. Because I think quite frankly, I probably had a little PTSD. I probably still do about how I what I put out into the world, because I I know that there will always be some kind of commentary, some reaction. You do it you also want a reaction. I mean, I wrote this book to create a conversation among us as people, as women, as women of color. You know, so I knew I wanted to do this. It was just now felt like the time. I also knew that I wanted to use this as kind of a love letter to the team of people that you just wrote about, Meredith and Carl and Yana and Jerry.

And let me just say that team is the team that's been with me the longest, but there's so many others. All the seamstress, all the designers, Johnny Wright, who was my hairdresser during the eight years in the White House. I think Dawn is here who is done my nails all this time. I mean, my trainers and you know, it's just th you know, this whole process of showing up for the world, it y there's no way I could do it without this team. And I I think about how much they sacrifice because we live in an age where it's like the the odd part of the first lady position is that I guess I'm famous but I'm not a celebrity.

What's the difference to you? Well, celebrity is a celebrity stylist. You're styling for beauty. You're styling to be seen. I'm styling to work. And I'm not saying that, you know, there you know, there no I never walked on a red carpet other than a state dinner red carpet. I I am the first I have a job to do. And so my team has to understand that mission. And when you've worked in the beauty industry and you're used to a stylist who wants credit or wants to be seen, it's like we're not even talking about this. We did all of this and we're not talking about it.

Because we're also thinking about the times that we're in. Ha how are we gonna talk about fashion when there's a recession? How are we gonna talk about, you know, a pair of shoes when, you know, w we we need immigration reform? I mean, there is also thinking about what is appropriate to say at what time. And I always felt like fashion was the underlying story, so that meant that they had to kind of cut their shine. You know, there was no posting, there was no behind the scenes gossip or talk, and to have people who were so young, let me just remind you, Yune was eighteen, nineteen years old when she started you'll hear her story.

In Jerry the same way. These were kids. Meredith was twenty eight years old. We had a very young White House, a lot of really smart young kids who came in understanding the assignment that none of this was about them, me. We were there to support the commander-in-chief, we were there to represent the country, everybody took their job seriously. They didn't make money, there was no glamor to it, you know, industry of glamor. You know, this was about message and service and the fact that they were willing to make that sacrifice right alongside of us, riding in you know bad, sweaty vans, taking helicopter rides that were precarious, you know, being on boats, being in holds in Africa with no air conditioning and no lights and through thunderstorms.

I mean, this was not a glamorous job, but they did it and did it well. So I want their stories to be told because this is what this work is, you know. We we as women, we don't get to just show up any kind of way. We don't have the luxury yet to just wake up and throw on a tie and call it a day. There's a lot of

and I think this book is i you know, it this book is kind of speaking for all of us. For all that work that we do that sometimes goes unacknowledged. I mean, I even saw it when we did foreign trips. You know, the West Wing didn't necessarily plan a trip for a woman. You know, they wouldn't think about the cobblestones or the rain or the grass or the terrain, but yet here I am following my husband around in a pair of heels, or you know, because what a man has to do is if it's casual, you take the jacket off. If it's formal, you put the jacket on. You take the tie off, you put the tie on.

It's like we don't get to do that. But I'm f I'm with him every step of the way. I'm doing it's like the Ginger Rogers thing. I'm doing the same thing, giving speeches, but I'm doing it with heels and walking backwards, and it's not just me, you know, it was our Secretary of State, it was all of our senior advisors, it was Nancy Pelosi. When I would think about these women who are along on these codels, and they're trying to keep it together and keep their hair in place, and and the men are just in their stupid suits, just not thinking, not asking a question, not realizing all the machinations that have to go on for us to stand up and show up.

And we feel like we have to do this stuff quietly, like it just happens. It isn't magic, it's a lot of frickin' work. And it takes care. I think. That's also the four pounds, right? Like the work I mean y they worked, y'all worked, so we work right? Like to to lift this to to carry I I gotta take two of these back. Okay. I put them tellingly in my garment. Yeah. Did anybody you're talking about these you know, the difference for women in this experience in terms of like what you all had to just what it's like to put on clothes period.

Mm-hmm. Did anybody talk to you just about how to not look or how to look during those years? Did you get advice from anybody? No. Okay. No, there isn't you know, there isn't a handbook for it. You know, that was one of the excellent things that Meredith was able to do in and most of this was it was very important on foreign travel b because you know, even th the the state dinner at Buckingham Palace, to wear gloves, to not wear gloves, that is the question. You wore the gloves. I wore the gloves, but there were so many meetings about those gloves and were they appropriate and who wore them?

Did the Queen wear them? And then what did other first ladies do? In the State Department, they weren't that helpful. They they didn't they didn't have the strong opinion about it. And let me tell you, if I showed up as the first black first lady and didn't have something appropriate, you remember when I touched the Queen after she touched me? It's like she touched me first, y'all. She did. She did. And I felt like it was rude not to touch her back. Or you wear a cardigan. I mean, you know, we we're out in the country it it s in the world representing the country, that takes work.

Visit with the Pope. The amount of requirements to visit the Pope, a mantilla, you've gotta have your arms covered, you've gotta cover your knees. That's if you're you know, you can be in the Sistine Chapel in shorts and a t shirt, but if you go on upstairs to see the Pope, y there there is a way to dress. And some of that comes from the State Department, but some of that work was m Meredith researching what other first ladies wore and calling designers people on the ground who kn n knew. And because she did that work, I didn't have to.

I could be there and do the work and know that what I had on was appropriate. Those are things that male leaders do not have to think about. If you were visiting an Arab country, the amount of rules and who you can touch and who you can't and what you can't do as a woman, all of that is very matters very much. So that becomes a real that's a that's a real diplomacy issue that if you get it wrong, maybe you wear the wrong color or you've you know A color in a certain country could mean something. So you're constantly sending messages with everything you do. And for me, there's absolutely no way that I could get to a foreign country because I was also working there, giving speeches, meeting with young girls, doing work there, and then I had my kids as well, and they had to be dressed appropriately.

You had to wear something to get off the plane, then you had to get in the car, and then you had to wear something to the just the amount of packing that would take for a foreign trip. That was all Meredith. There was one person doing that for me, my girls, my mom if she traveled, managing outfits, steaming, getting things ready for event after event after event. That's a lot of work, y'all. Yeah. I we've gotta go. Yeah. But I've just gotta my sister asked one of my sister and her friends had some questions. Okay. We have time for one.

It's a question I share, which is basically do you get advice from your daughters? Yeah. About what to wear and what not to wear. No, let me not not laugh at that. No no no. The girls they y yes, I I get the you look good, mom. Or that works. I know if they look, they go in my closet a lot. That's a sign of approval. Oh, for sure. But they, you know, as they get older, they're starting to respect what I have. I mean, I remember I was gonna give Sasha an Alaya dress that I had. And for those of you, Alaya is a really she's like, why would I want that?

And I was like, Ooh, you just don't know. You just don't know. But now they're starting to know. It's just been fun watching them come into their own style. They're very different girls. They have their unique style. I find that I'm now at a point where I'll I'll see something cool that they have, a jacket or a shoe, and I'm like, Where'd you get that? No, we're doing more of that. They're like, Where'd you get that? But it y that's very different, you know, teenage ch children, that Brandy Melville period. Oh I'm sorry.

But that's that short those short dresses and the they went through they they were just like every y young teenager. They wanted the stuff off of the web. They wanted to go to the mall. They wanted, you know, they they they didn't they thought designer clothes were for old people. And so they're just now as they're coming into their own professions, they're just now starting to appreciate the quality of clothes and to understand dressing for, you know, being out in the world. So we're we're we're starting to develop a more shared fashion story together.

And it's like a new thing for you to talk about? No. No, with girls you're always look, Sasha was beating her face from the time she was eleven years old because this is the thing about this new generation, social media introduces them to a lot of stuff early on. I didn't wear makeup until Oprah came over. I mean Literally, you know, you take one picture that appears in the press with no makeup on, and you're like, I need a makeup artist because I don't wear makeup all the time, but when you are filmed and seen, it does make a difference. You do not show up on TV without makeup.

You just Barack ha will get touched up. He's learning that too. So I didn't grow up wearing makeup, but the girls, you guys who have young girls, they all know how to do their makeup because of social media. They all go on these websites and they know how to powder and contour and ways that are amazing to me. So Sasha was doing that for the longest, and Barack was like, she's just wearing too much makeup. And I was like, it's a phase, you know. This is what he had to understand. Girls, we play. We play in these spaces, and I was like, let them play.

You know, they will get to the point where they will decide as women on their own what they can afford to do, what they have time to do. I was like, they get to the point, it's like Sasha, the minute she gets in college when she doesn't have any time, no makeup, and lo and behold, she chose sleep over the extra time to put that. So it's just slowly, it's like, whoo, yeah, that hour routine, you know, you can do that when you finish your homework and you're just at home. But You could learn from Carl how to do it in fifteen minutes.

That's true. She's gotten faster. But that's the the the beauty of having young young young girls around just watching them. And I give credit to that this new generation, the younger generation. A lot of this openness, the sharing comes from that. They want authenticity. They want to hear your truth. They don't want things to be powdered over or smoothed over. And they're honest. I think my decision to wear braids more and more comes from a whole generation of young black girls who are embracing their natural hair, who are no longer using real relaxers, who are saying, take me as I am, who are embracing their beauty.

And as I said, I wanted to be a part of supporting them in that journey. And I know that me being Michelle Obama, the first f former first lady, wearing braids in the White House mattered. And that was a deliberate decision that I made to support young girls that are trying to break old patterns and norms that don't serve them as young young girls. And I credit that generation and I I want them to continue to be themselves and show up in ways that make sense for them, not following some limited stereotype of what beauty is.

And I say that not just to girls of color, but to all women. You know, that's what we need to break out of is this one narrow standard of what is acceptable and beautiful. I hope that what I've shown is that beauty comes in all shapes, sizes, and colors. There isn't one way to wear your hair, there isn't one way to look professional, there isn't one way of showing up as an American. And I think it's incumbent upon all of us as women not to make not to look for us to look like each other. You know, we should embrace the power of how different we are.

Our hair texture, our sizes and shapes, it's all beautiful and it's all important and it all matters. But we have to fight for it. Because if we let somebody else set those standards for us, we will be trapped in this narrow definition But we got in this mess in the first place. How we got in this mess that in this place in the first place. So yes. So I I hope that this empowers us as women as people to embrace all of who we are whatever that looks like. Thank you Wesley you all thank you DC thank you for Much. Book wonderful crowd you all take care good night

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Questions about this episode

What is "The Look Live from DC: Legacy, Oprah, and That Tan Suit | The Look" about?

The main topic explores the significance of Michelle Obama's first edition clothing line gift and its broader implications, illustrating how it represents a moment of celebration and acknowledgment in a larger narrative of change and possibility. The discussion highlights the unexpected nature of such gestures amid the backdrop of her impactful legacy and the importance of documenting…

What is mentioned in this Michelle Obama episode?

68 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Jeremy Carl, Mr. President, The White House, Attorney General, Cologuard, Sasha. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The Look Live from DC: Legacy, Oprah, and That Tan Suit | The Look"?

The episode runs 1 h 39 min; the transcript is about 15,178 words in 140 timestamped sections.

More from Michelle Obama

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated December 17, 2025.