Episode 708- September Bonus Episode: Unknown Number: The High School Catfish

What this episode is about

The content explores the intriguing story of "Unknown Number: The High School Catfish," focusing on a catfishing incident that unfolds in Beiel City, Michigan. The hosts, Ash and Elena, discuss the details and complexities of the case while providing a spoiler warning for those who haven't seen it yet.

Key takeaways

• Bonus episodes: proof that creativity thrives under pressure—just like that coffee kick after a single sip.
• Small town dynamics: where the school yard gossip doubles as a local history lesson—just add catfish drama.
• DTF at 12? A stark reminder that some parents should vet their kids' text exchanges before they hit send.
• Spoilers, sweetie! The best twists are like your favorite coffee: unexpected but somehow perfectly brewed.
• In a school where grades share hallways, the fear of teenage drama is rivaled only by actual horror movies.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Ash (Host) · 36 min speaking
• Elena (Host) · 36 min speaking
• Kendra (Guest) · 7 min speaking
• Lauren (Guest) · 4 min speaking
• Owen (Guest) · 4 min speaking
• Sheriff Mike Maine (Guest) · 4 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Unknown Number: The High School Catfish, Owen Lucari, Beal City, Jill Lucari
2. 10:00 – 20:00: The Office
3. 20:00 – 30:00: Mike Maine, Beal City, Chloe Wilson, Lauren Smiley
4. 1:00:00 – 1:10:00: Kendra Lucari, Unknown Number: The High School Catfish, Owen Lucari

Notable quotes from "Episode 708- September Bonus Episode: Unknown Number: The High School Catfish"

• Exactly. So, so we're going to be talking today about Unknown Number: The High School Catfish, honey. Okay, wait before you say anything else. There are going to be spoilers.

  about Unknown Number: The High School Catfish · at 1:22

• So, we're introduced to Lauren and Owen.

  about Owen Lucari · at 3:27

• Agreed. If you've ever seen The Office and there's an episode where Michael finds out that his computer can like talk to text and or like text talk. Yeah. Yeah. and.

  about The Office · at 12:14

• So that is when Sheriff Mike Maine got involved. Everybody started getting very worried about the trauma surrounding all of this. I also think that I read in the cut article that Jill herself.

  about Mike Maine · at 22:24

• Together? Parents were reaching out to other parents, to the school, to the coaches. Everyone is turning on everyone in Beal, Michigan at this point.

  about Beal City · at 24:46

• Now, on top of that, too, in the cut article, Lauren, the author of the article, had written that Snapchat account had even been made in Khloe's name, and Chloe was That's not my account, and I'm not.

  about Lauren Smiley · at 25:48

• It does. Well, they dubbed Khloe's phone and it proved that she wasn't doing anything.

  about Chloe Wilson · at 27:06

• For a year and a half, these text messages were coming from Lauren's mother. Kendra, I need you to really take that in.

  about Kendra Lucari · at 38:14

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Kendra Lucari — Person · Primary perpetrator discussed (central subject of · 1 mention · first at 1:04:54
  Identified as the anonymous texter who sent abusive and sexually explicit messages to Lauren Lucari and Owen, driving the episode’s outrage, analysis, and ethical discussion.
• Owen Lucari — Person · Victim in the case (core subject) · 2 mentions · first at 3:27
  One of the two primary targets of the anonymous texts; discussed as being sexually harassed via explicit messages and emotionally impacted over ~20 months.
• Jill Lucari — Person · Parent advocate (key actor in response) · 1 mention · first at 3:45
  Owen’s mother; coordinated with Kendra early, pushed school/law enforcement, and is framed as instrumental in forcing escalation and resolution.
  Yeah. So, their families ended up becoming good friends, especially their mom's Jill and Kendra. Jill is Owen's mom and Kendra's Lauren's mom.
• Chloe Wilson — Person · Initially suspected student (false lead) · 2 mentions · first at 4:02
  Investigators and community suspicion focused on her due to the Halloween party, bullying reputation, and circumstantial evidence; later cleared after phone forensic review.
• Adriana Lucari — Person · Secondary suspect/victim of community fallout · 10 mentions
  Owen’s cousin who became a suspect after a family-only photo clue; later cleared but traumatized, illustrating collateral damage.
  They started looking at Owen's cousin, Adriana.
• Sean Lucari — Person · Parent/family member impacted (referenced) · 10 mentions
  Lauren’s father; described as experiencing household strain, financial deception, and later divorcing Kendra Lucari and gaining custody.
  Kendra... and Lauren's father Shawn were fighting all the time.
• Mike Maine — Person · Law enforcement investigator (referenced) · 2 mentions · first at 22:24
  As sheriff, escalated the investigation and later involved the FBI as the harassment intensified and persisted.
• Lauren Smiley — Person · Referenced journalist (source of additional report · 2 mentions · first at 2:21
  Authored a Cut article used by the hosts to add context beyond the documentary (community dynamics, additional details).
• Laura Gilmore — Person · Humorous reference/bit by host · 1 mention · first at 1:10
  Used as a joking identity reference by the hosts; not part of the case but appears in the episode’s banter.
  I am Laura Gilmore. Actually, you are Lauraai Gilmore.

Places & events

• Beal City — Place · Primary setting · 2 mentions · first at 2:06
  Small-town environment where the harassment unfolded; its tight-knit nature amplified suspicion, social fracture, and investigative constraints.

Media & podcasts

• Unknown Number: The High School Catfish — Media · Primary media discussed · 2 mentions · first at 1:26
  The documentary being recapped with spoilers; provides the narrative backbone for the episode.
• The Office — Media · Analogy reference · 2 mentions · first at 12:14
  Used to describe the documentary’s robotic narration voice via a Michael Scott text-to-speech scene comparison.
• Southern Charm — Media · Pop-culture reference · 1 mention · first at 4:50
  Referenced as where a host learned/remembered the acronym “DTF,” used to contextualize the early texts.
  I only know it from on Southern Charm. Shep said it about somebody and then immediately regretted it because that person was Go [ __ ] yourself. And I thought it was funny.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Hey weirdos. I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is a bonus episode. It's a bonus bonus episode.

0:10 And that is our new intro. Yeah. No kidding. That's not We're We're going to work it.

0:28 Yeah. We're going to think of something fun as an intro for bonus episodes. You've probably heard it right now.

0:32 Yeah, you already you already heard it perhaps. But yeah, we need some good music and hopefully you just heard some.

0:37 But if you didn't, if you or if you heard good music, but it's the same theme song as regular Morbid, then we're still thinking on it, you know. So, just bear with us.

0:46 We're working on it. We're working on it. All right, brothers. So, today we are here to talk to you for our very first ever bonus episode on Sirius XM. This is so exciting.

0:58 I just took one sip of Actually, we had to pause for a second to make sure that the recording was like working. So, the intro and then now one sip of coffee. I'm a change.

1:07 Yeah. The energy is has shifted just in about 5 minutes. I am Laura Gilmore. Actually, you are Lauraai Gilmore.

1:14 Yeah. And I'm Rory. Yeah. But only sometimes. Yeah. Like in only in some ways. Pretty much only when we have coffee, coffee coffee.

1:22 Exactly. So, so we're going to be talking today about Unknown Number: The High School Catfish,

1:30 honey. Okay, wait before you say anything else. There are going to be spoilers.

1:35 Spoilers. Spoilers. Spoilers. If you don't want to be spoiled, go watch it now and then listen, my brother in Christ.

1:42 If you listen to it first, you will be spoiled and that won't be our fault. It's not my fault if past this point you get a [ __ ] spoiler

1:53 because we are going to talk about it and we are going to talk about all of it.

1:58 All right. So, let's get into it. Let's do this. And we're going we're going to like do it so we don't reveal the twist until

2:04 until the twist is revealed. Exactly. Okay. So, we're in Beiel City, Michigan. It's a It's like central Michigan. It's a super tiny town. It seems like everybody knows everybody. It also seems like people are like lifelong residents. And um we so we watched the documentary and then we also found a cut article um written by Lauren Smiley that gave like a little more information and she was saying like even a lot of these parents are lifelong residents of Beiel and like if you're not a lifelong resident, you do feel somewhat of an outsider.

2:38 That makes sense. And isn't it like the the school is like preschool to 12th grade?

2:43 Yeah. All in the same building. Yes. Which to this It's my opinion. It's my opinion.

2:49 That's wily to me. Like that is horrifying to me. Bonkers. Yeah. I can't imagine my kindergartener in the same school as a 12th grader.

2:57 That's just not for me. But I guess each class of kids like is 60 kids. Yeah. So they can all just fit in one building, which is nuts.

3:05 No, it makes sense for the what it is. Yeah. But I completely agree with you. No, it is scary. So, we start off the film and um we started off with a threat. It says all with a literal code 10 threat code red. All the texts in this film are real, it says. And I said, and you'll know, you'll find out why that's a threat

3:25 very shortly, very quickly. So, we're introduced to Lauren and Owen. They started dating when they were like 12. And I think they were probably like around like seventh grade. And it's funny because when I was reading the Cut article, it turned out Owen's parents also started dating in seventh grade.

3:41 That's crazy. Yeah. So, their families ended up becoming good friends, especially their mom's Jill and Kendra. Jill is Owen's mom and Kendra's Lauren's mom.

3:50 Mhm. So, they like it's it all seemed really cute like Yeah. You know, cute small community. Yeah.

3:57 Everyone supports each other. Exactly. So October 2020 rolls around and this girl Chloe Wilson's family always has this big Halloween party. Uh

4:07 sounds pretty sick. It sounds like a sick ass Halloween party. It's like a haunted [ __ ] corn maze or some [ __ ]

4:13 Yeah, it's moderately exclusive evidently. Um Lauren was not invited, but Owen was.

4:19 Oh. So Owen ends up inviting Lauren because they're together. Oh, okay. Okay. So, right around this time,

4:26 Lauren gets a text telling her that Owen doesn't like her. He likes whoever this unknown texter is, and they are both DTF.

4:36 Down to [ __ ] Down to [ __ ] I was going to say for my for my homies out there who don't know what DTF is, down to [ __ ]

4:43 Yeah, I only know what it is. Um because No, not even that. I didn't even realize that was in there. I I only know it from um on Southern Charm. Uh Shep said it about somebody and then immediately regretted it because that person was like, "Go [ __ ] yourself." And I thought it was funny.

5:02 I don't I remember who that is. It was Bailey. Oh. And remember he was like cuz like that was shitty to say.

5:07 Yeah, it is shitty. Cuz he said it in like a jokey way and she was like, "You're an asshole."

5:11 Yeah. And she was like, "I don't want to [ __ ] you." Uh she was a queen. She was a queen and she was I think she was like the one that got away. I think she was too

5:19 be a better person. Be be better. But can we can we clarify too? Um this whole text comes through that's like DTF [ __ ]

5:28 These are like 13year-olds. Not even yet. They're 12. They're 12. 12. Nobody's DTF at 12.

5:35 Nobody should. And nobody should be saying DTF at 12. Nobody. Oh, I find a text in my kid's phone someday that says an acronym that I have to Google, I'm sure, at that point. And it and it's anything like DTS.

5:48 It's going down for real. Lock down. Lock down in the home. All of a sudden it's like

5:53 it's like a purge. Let the bodies hit the floor. Starts playing. I'm like, "Well, you live here forever now." So,

6:00 honestly, valid. So, the texts come in like that and they're pretty shitty. Yeah.

6:09 Then they stop for a year. They literally stop for an entire year and then all of a sudden almost 365 days later they start up again and they start up and they go every single [ __ ] day multiple times a day essentially like sun up to sundown.

6:28 Oh yeah. And they said that the nighttime texts cuz it was it wasn't even sun up to sun down. It was like through the night

6:34 past sundown. Oh, yeah. Because they said the night ones would get particularly like nasty, which is interesting.

6:40 Yeah. Like that's it's very interesting when you find out uh what's going on here.

6:46 Yeah, definitely. So, some of the texts and these texts are being sent to Lauren and Owen at this point. Both of them. Mostly to Lauren, though.

6:54 Um some of them said, "Fining trash, [ __ ] Don't wear effing leggings. No one wants to see your anorexic ass." like that.

7:02 So upsetting that the anorexic thing is such a thing that gets said like it's such a weird insult.

7:11 It is a weird insult and it's like common, you know, that's a common insult. I I used to hear that all the time in uh middle school.

7:18 Oh, I've been on both ends of that spectrum cuz I was a lot tinier when I was in middle school and I got anorexic then and then I got like obese [ __ ] when I was in high school. I was like awesome.

7:28 Why are we Why are we commenting? First of all, cuz it's like they're all assuming and you know, like that this is cuz especially because this is somebody saying like Owen is down to [ __ ] them that this is a girl.

7:40 Yeah. And it's like why are we commenting as women and girls on other girls and other women's bodies? Can we stop doing that?

7:50 Because also like growing up, I remember being like 9 years old and becoming aware of my body and becoming aware that I didn't like it.

7:57 And you absolutely should never be aware of that. It shouldn't even be a thought in your mind.

8:01 But that's the thing like young girls so early learn to be their biggest critics and then they grow up almost immediately becoming critics of each other.

8:10 Yeah. Because they and you have to be so care like I don't allow anybody to talk about weight.

8:17 No. Or bodies in that way around my kids because there's so many different reasons why bodies look the way they look and one is not better than the other for any reason. It's just not something you're healthy and your doctor's not concerned. You look great.

8:32 That's the thing. I'm like, you go to your yearly physical, you're told that you're healthy.

8:36 They say thumbs up and that's all that matters. You don't need to hear anything else about what's going on.

8:41 I totally agree with that. And that's something I'm going to adopt when I have kids. No weight talk.

8:45 We don't want any weight talk around them. And it's like, so for like then you call it like anor cuz like you know like girls especially at her age like seventh grade and [ __ ]

8:54 Yeah. Like 12 years old. you're like every kid is like gangly at some point and just trying to like their body's just like growing into itself. You know what I mean? Or they're holding on to like extra baby weight and it's like and they're trying their body's trying to grow out of that. Like everybody's in that weird in between area where you're either like weirdly gangly and like noodly and like nothing makes sense and you're just this like skeleton with like a little bit of flesh on it

9:20 or you're just like trying to figure it out and your body's not growing fast enough to like catch up with the baby weight you had on.

9:26 Yeah. Exactly. Like everybody's so different at that time and it's like all weird. It's all weird. I feel like sixth, seventh, and eighth grade especially are so hard for that reason and obviously like so many other reasons cuz uh one thing that they I forget who said it in the article. I think the principal said it um eventually that this is like the age where you start to break off from your parents too and you like really get involved in your friend group and you like break away.

9:53 Yeah. It's like an inside out. Yeah, her her family island gets smaller and her friend island gets bigger and kind of hides the family island.

10:01 And it does because it's like this age where you're trying to navigate all of this and people saying everything about you and you starting to like self-criticize and you're also at the same time kind of

10:12 like taking away your own support system, you know, like it's a weird time unknowingly. Exactly.

10:17 Like pushing away your own support system, right? So, beyond uh that awful text message, there was worse ones even. Uh, you are worthless and mean nothing. You never have. Get a [ __ ] life out of here. Owen will never look at you again or talk to you. You [ __ ] up his life so bad. His family [ __ ] hates you for it. He will never in his life acknowledge you again. Get the [ __ ] lost, [ __ ] He's [ __ ] done with you.

10:41 That is like so unhinged. Just like you don't mean anything. You're worthless. Get a life. His family hates you. Like even making her d her her support system beyond her own family like when that's diabolical for a kid to write to another kid like a peer.

11:02 Yeah. It's this is diabolical. Well and then and I should mention too so like saying his family [ __ ] hates you. So like his mom and dad were a big part of his life but he also has a younger sister who was in the friend group too. So Lauren's like okay does Macy hate me? Is this like does Jill hate me? Does Dave hate me? Who hates me? And why do they hate me? And why have I [ __ ] up his life?

11:25 And now she's wearing like that adults don't like her. Like now it's like going beyond like it's just like what? Like what is going on? And also like what is this about? Like what what the hell?

11:36 It's wild. So then the texts start getting insanely sexual. like messages when you w I'm not going to like say all of them because I I'm not capable of saying some of the things that this person wrote.

11:51 The narrator in this was like it's not funny by any means, but the narrator was cracking me up because it's like almost a robotic voice. It is. It's got like a very like

12:01 Yeah. It's very It's computeresque. So, it sounds like if you if you've ever seen and again the the the like information being told is not funny. I'm saying the voice is funny. Agreed. If you've ever seen The Office and there's an episode where Michael finds out that his computer can like talk to text

12:22 and or like text talk. Yeah. Yeah. and he puts like eyes on it on the back of it and like a mouth and then has people come in the office and he just types things out and it's like and he's and he'll be like and it's just like hello Pam, you look particularly hot today.

12:40 It's just Yeah, that's what it sounds like. That's what it felt like. It's like that kind of weird robotic voice that just makes it so unhinged.

12:48 And like in the office apparently it's like you look hot today. these text messages. We're talking about like tits, BJ's, creaming like

12:58 literally that's not even that that is a verbatim. I I didn't want to say any of that. Especially the latter of that makes me want to jump into traffic like it's too much.

13:09 It's all [ __ ] that if this if this is like her peers, you're like, "What the [ __ ] How is that coming out of a literal child's mouth? One, how do they know any of those words?

13:24 Yeah. And two, like, you're too young. You're too young to know all those words. Like, what the [ __ ] is going on? You're a baby.

13:30 And it's like they're talking about like literal sex acts. Yeah. They're talking like they like mention like somebody's dick. Like

13:39 they mention like crazy. They they mention insanely explicit things. And you'll see it if you watch it.

13:46 Yeah. And when we get to like where we're going to reveal who it is, we'll get further into how wild this is.

13:53 Yeah. One of them just to like like one of the actual verbatim ones was he wants sex BJs and making out and making out.

14:01 And it's the way the narrator says it. He's like and making out. Yeah. He's like making out.

14:05 I'm like damn. So the once that started happening because these are literal like 12, 13 year olds maybe. I don't even think they're 14 at this point. The parents, including especially Jill and Kendra, because these are their kids being victimized, went to the school and the superintendent ended up getting involved and obviously so did the principal. Now, basically what they did as a school, which it's interesting because at one point Kendra, Lauren's mom is like, "I didn't think they were doing enough." And I was like, "It sounds like they were doing a lot." Because what they did was they set up surveillance so that anytime a text came in they could look at the cameras and see who like what student was on their phone at that point.

14:45 I thought it was like pretty it was especially this is a remember a small community and this is a small town. These are like you know like they don't have all this resources to do [ __ ] and they were really like doing like grunt work trying to like investigative work trying to figure out who this could be. Well, and when you think about all the things that I'm sure school like I don't know all the things a school administrator has to do throughout the day.

15:07 I imagine it's a lot but I would assume it's a lot and like to take the extra time to be able to do this.

15:12 Yeah, it sounds like they took it seriously especially in the beginning. I think so. Yeah. So then Laur people started to actually think that Lauren was sending the text to herself to get attention which is really sad because she definitely wasn't.

15:27 Yeah. Uh, but after some sitdowns with the admin at school, they ruled her out and they also ruled Owen out. I don't I'm not exactly sure how they did it, but they I think something with the surveillance.

15:36 Yeah. So, also, you said something [ __ ] hilarious at this point cuz I think the principal was like, "There's a lot of kids in this school. Like, you can't rule anyone out." And that's why we had to do the surveillance. And I was like, and I stand by it. I feel like we can pretty like confidently rule out the preschoolers. Yeah, definitely the preschoolers. I was dying. She could feel good about that.

16:00 Goes, I don't know. I feel like we could probably rule out the preschoolers. I feel like they're not involved.

16:06 She was like, I don't know. Who am I to say? But like I feel like I I feel confident in that. Like that's just me. I feel like even the kindergarteners, we can probably, you know, rule them right out.

16:16 Yeah. You get to first grade. You get to first grade and things get really wy now. So, I don't really know. But

16:21 they have like Apple watches and [ __ ] But preschool and kindergarten, I think we're safe. We've cut out a little portion of the community, you know.

16:27 I think so. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, less to watch. It's true. So, once they cut out the kindergarteners and the preschoolers, they they kept their eye on everyone else.

16:37 And at the same time, Jill and Kendra were getting together on their own a lot to talk about the text messages because Lauren's getting her own set, Owen's getting his own set, then they're probably getting like group messages. So, they're comparing notes basically and probably feeling like thank goodness they have somebody they can

16:54 go to to talk about misery with like it's not just their kid that's going through it. Like

16:59 cuz I imagine if this was just happening to your child, you must feel so [ __ ] isolated and alone and just wanting help figuring out what to do. So, like to have that

17:08 like you don't want it to be happening to both your kids, but like you have each other to try to figure this out with,

17:15 right? So they went together to talk to the principal themselves once they they were like can you do more and he was like I really can't I suggest you change their numbers block the texter something like okay when we were watching this cuz Ash had already watched it and then watched it with me for the first time me watching it for the first time

17:35 I literally said I was like I I knew that who had done this so I immediately like checked my own question basically but I was like I Why aren't they just changing the numbers? Like, right? Like, shut down that line, get a new number, give them a new phone.

17:55 Or I mean, now especially little kids, you can get them like phones that are just

18:03 for calling and texting people you approve and that you can approve all the apps and all that stuff. And it's like maybe you have to do that for a little while just to like see if how it stops and see if you can figure out something via that. And while you're figuring it out, you hang on to those other phones

18:20 so your kids don't let anybody know except their like close friends who has that new number.

18:24 And then see if somebody infiltrates. Smart. Because if they're only telling their close friends who those numbers are and you're approving them, boom, you're

18:31 got to be one of the close friends. And then you hold on to those other phones and you can start doing some investigation.

18:36 It could have worked. I was a little confused why that didn't happen. Well, so basically they said blocking the number didn't work because the texter was using one of those like random number generators. I think it was pinger,

18:46 which should absolutely be outlawed. Yeah, there's no reason to ever disguise your phone number.

18:52 Why does that exist? Nope. No, no, no, no. Yeah. So, they couldn't block it because another text would just come in. Whoever was doing this had the number and that's all they needed because they could just get phone number after phone number to continue text. And they also said they didn't want to get their their kids new phones because they wanted to get the to the bottom of who this was, which I do understand because and Jill said it, um Owen's mom, she was saying like this could have been somebody that we were letting into our lives because this community is so small and obviously this person knew a lot about our kids, knew like where they were at what time, what they were wearing sometimes. So we didn't want to continue inviting somebody like that into our home. And if we had if we had gotten them new phones and like that person didn't end up getting those numbers, we would never know who that was and we would keep

19:41 spending time with them, you know. Yeah. And I totally get that. So I did understand that.

19:46 That's why the the phones that you only approve the numbers would have worked. It's true. So Lauren and Owen at like they're very far into this because this was I think ultimately this went on for like was it was 20 months, right? Almost two years. So, like like a good amount of the of the way into this all happening, Lauren and Owen started fighting with each other because this caller would be like, "Oh, like he wants me. He hung out with me. Me and him went to a hotel this weekend. His family likes me." So Lauren's going to Owen and being like, "Who are

20:21 were you hanging out with this girl?" Right? Like, "Were you hanging out with this person?" And Owen's like, "No."

20:25 But so they started fighting because of all the tension and they ended up breaking up. And Owen thought that maybe if they broke up, the messages would stop and Lauren would not, you know, be going through what she was going through anymore. He could end what he was going through. And then he said like, "Maybe, you know, try again someday." Which was so sweet cuz I'm like, "You little beans."

20:44 I know. You little 13-year-old. They liked each other. They did. They were so cute together.

20:49 Sad. But the thing was after they broke up, the messages got a million times worse.

20:55 Now the bullies won. You never want to give him the the the prize. So they started telling Lauren to kill herself.

21:04 This is where it just like multiple times a day texting her how worthless she was, how she should just kill herself because Owen didn't like her and didn't want to be with her anymore. How they wrote um #bangbang do it now. Literally kill yourself now, [ __ ]

21:24 Yep. #bang bang. Yep. Like how that And the worst part is nobody can do anything.

21:33 No. Because they can't figure out who this is. So this person's literally texting death threats.

21:37 Mhm. And they just get away with it. Yep. And they're also It seemed like they were stalking her at this point, too, because like I said before, like whoever this was knew where they were at certain points in time. And then like they knew how Lauren was doing in basketball games and they were trying to tear her confidence down in her and her dad said that she's an incredible athlete. Like I think she played basketball and either softball or baseball, who knows what else, but she was really talented, like a great athlete.

22:05 And this whoever this person was knew that and they were trying to break that confidence. So like if she didn't get a ton of points in a basketball game, they'd be like, "Wow, like how embarrassing. You suck. Kill yourself. Quit basketball." And they knew how many points you would get.

22:18 They knew specifically how many points. And what that one game they said like two points, haha, you suck.

22:23 Yep. So that is when Sheriff Mike Maine got involved. Everybody started getting very worried about the trauma surrounding all of this. I also think that um I read in the um the cut article that Jill herself had read an article or like saw news about somebody bringing a gun to school in another community and she was like, "What if all of this

22:44 they get pushed that far?" Exactly. pushes them that far. So that's when the sheriff got involved

22:48 cuz they were also writing [ __ ] like we're going to break you, like we won't stop till we break you. It's like what the [ __ ]

22:55 And also at that point they're like okay is this a group of people and how do we

23:00 how do we figure out who this is all coming from? And I also understand like it was coming from multiple different numbers too. So yeah, Sheriff Mike Maine starts looking at this one particular girl, Chloe. Chloe, remember, she's the one who um her family has like the big Halloween party.

23:31 She had somewhat of a reputation for being a bully at the school. like administrators seem to have talked to her a few times. Her parents got called in and like there was just incidents.

23:41 Yeah. And the reason she specifically got called in for this is because the texter said something about how they had the most points in the game.

23:49 And when they looked at the points and on the scorecard, it was Khloe who had the most

23:53 and Kendra helped them out with that. Kendra helped them out with that. Lauren's mom because

23:57 because she's the scorekeeper and at one point she'd also been the girls coach.

24:01 Yeah. uh basketball coach and also it was Khloe's Halloween party where this all started and Lauren originally hadn't been invited and like didn't want to go so they kind of felt like they had a hot lead here.

24:13 Well, and I think like her and Owen were her and Owen after Lauren broke up friends

24:18 and they had like crushes on each other. So there was just a and I think there was just like never a great relationship between Khloe and Lauren because of that like lingering what's going on here kind of thing. Basically, at this point in time, all roads were leading to Khloe Wilson. And I do kind of get why

24:35 you get why they they went down that road. So Khloe's friends moms were looking at their phones the because they're like, "Is this group of Khloe's friends doing this? Like are they all doing it together?" Parents were reaching out to other parents, to the school, to the coaches. Everyone is turning on everyone in Beal, Michigan at this point.

24:53 The parents are turning on each other. The kids are turning on each other. Like

24:56 all the girls on the basketball team are fighting. parents were trying to get in to talk to the kids, but the principal and the superintendent are like, "We can't have an angry mom of mob of parents like hunting the kids down, you know."

25:08 Yeah. And Chloe's, you know, like these kids are getting interrogated by police at school all year.

25:15 Actual police officers. And the other thing was another reason why they were looking at Chloe is because the texter or texters were saying that they had connections to the cops and that's why they were never going to get caught. And Khloe's dad, as um Sophie put it, was a police.

25:33 She was a police officer. He was a police officer. Excuse me. So things started looking even more like Chloe when her family took a trip to Florida and the area code of the texts that were coming in started coming from a Florida area code. Now, on top of that, too, in the um cut article, Lauren, the author of the article, had written that

25:55 uh Snapchat account had even been made in Khloe's name, and Chloe was like, "That's not my account, and I'm not sending those messages."

26:02 And like showed that and she showed her dad, and also was like, "This is how easy it is to make an account and say it's me."

26:08 So, her parents believed her the whole time, of course. But at that point, it also seemed like they didn't really have any other option to prove that it wasn't their daughter than to have her phone dubbed with the police,

26:19 which that is such an in like obviously it took a long like road to get there. But I do feel for them for actually doing that like in that way.

26:30 Kudos to them because that's such an invasion of privacy. That is everything on your phone, every picture, every text, every file. I don't know if it even goes into like every website you've ever been to probably. Like it's everything you've ever done on your phone.

26:43 Yeah. And it's like that's a lot. And especially if you I mean one of the main things you should be teaching your kid is that their privacy they have a right to privacy and that that privacy should be respected.

26:54 Yeah. And that respect breeds because of privacy being respected. And it's like

27:00 and now you're kind of being like I'm sorry we don't have any other strangers invade your privacy. Like that sucks.

27:06 It does. Well, they dubbed Khloe's phone and it proved that she wasn't doing anything.

27:11 So, she had been literally she'd been framed, like framed for this. And then somehow whoever was sending the text messages didn't realize that Khloe's phone had been dubbed and it proved that she wasn't doing anything because they kept trying to make it seem like they were Chloe. Even after the phone was dubbed,

27:30 they would send they would send all kinds of messages basically like they would send pictures of Owen and Chloe to mock Lauren and say like, oh, he's hanging out with us, not you.

27:40 That kind of thing. And can you imagine how Chloe felt? Yeah. She's like, I'm not doing this.

27:44 One, being like railroaded for an entire year of her high school career and like treated like a villain. And then two,

27:51 she's sitting there going, who the [ __ ] is this person that's trying to frame me?

27:56 Yeah. Like that would be terrifying. I'd be like, why are they doing this to me now?

28:00 It's like a pretty little liars. Yeah. It's like really scary. That would freak me out.

28:05 Absolutely. So then around Christmas time, uh, everybody ended up getting a text about Owen's phone case and the picture his family realized had t had been taken at a Christmas family party where they only had family in their house and nobody else.

28:22 Yeah. So that's when they were like, "Okay, this has to be somebody in our family

28:27 that was in our house that day." That was in our house that day. So they started looking at Owen's cousin, Adriana, who also went to school with everybody else.

28:35 Adriana broke my heart. Adriana seemed like the sweetest bean. She I felt so awful.

28:42 She got she like she was the next person basically to get railroaded. Yeah, everyone thought that it could have been her and especially thought that it was maybe her because she and Khloe didn't really get along. She had felt before in the past like Khloe had kind of bullied her. Chloe said she didn't bully her. It was like this whole back and forth thing. High school's awful for everybody involved.

29:01 High school sucks ass. Yeah, I would never do that. Middle school and high school suck ass.

29:05 It's awful. So, they pull her in and she's trying to prove to them that she didn't do anything. She ends up getting checked out, but then once her story checks out, she got a text from one of the random numbers asking her for help to like terrorize Lauren again and protect Owen, like get get Lauren away from Owen, even though they were already broken up. Like, what the [ __ ] And Adriana starts freaking out because she's been cleared at this point, but now she's got a text from the number. So, she started like balling her eyes out,

29:36 and this poor girl has like PTSD now. Yeah. She said she'll pass a cop and she like doesn't trust them anymore

29:43 because she felt like she couldn't prove to them that she wasn't doing this, which is so like the farreaching effects that this had on so many kids and so many families, especially because of how small and tight-knit of a community this is. Like it would be it would do this kind of damage even in like a bigger community. Oh,

30:04 it's it was just so much it was so much easier because it was such a tight-knit community.

30:09 And now it also is starting to infiltrate people's family dynamics. Apparently Kendra, Lauren's mom, and uh Lauren's father Shawn were fighting all the time. Sean said the tension in the house was awful. Like she it was like Kendra saying like she was handling it and Sean was saying like

30:26 obviously you're not cuz it's still going on. Lauren sobbing every morning not wanting to go to school because like the co the texter would uh berate her about like outfits she was wearing. She could never wear the right thing. Like just awful. I can't imagine how she lived through it all.

30:41 That's awful. That was my bully's thing in middle school. Um if you're listening, hey, what's up? You remember? It was always what I It was my clothing a lot of the time and my hair and they would like leave hand because it was like back in, you know, the pioneer days. So they would leave they would leave like handwritten notes in the bathroom and then they would find them for me or direct me to them and like they were helping me

31:07 and it would be this like awful letter that was like talking about how shitty I dress and my hair is gross and all that.

31:12 So it's like that that's tail is oldest time. Oh yeah. especially with unfortunately girl on girl bullying

31:21 is to do that kind of [ __ ] because it's the stuff that's gonna get you the most because every day you're gonna wake up you're gonna put you're gonna rip through your closet

31:28 and do your absolutely you're going to put on a hundred different outfits and each time you're going to say what are they going to say about this one?

31:33 How are they going to make me feel like [ __ ] today about this one? Yep. It's crazy.

31:38 It is. It's so sad. I don't like I just don't understand doing that to somebody else.

31:42 I don't understand. It's like I I Yeah, I don't get it. It's [ __ ] up. So, a year and a half has gone by at this point of them just whoever this caller or textter is just terrorizing everyone in this town, but specifically Lauren and Owen. And at So, Lauren's getting all these text messages telling her to kill herself, telling her like all the things we've been talking about, just bullying her beyond belief.

32:07 This all crazy sexually explicit [ __ ] too. And well, that's the thing I was just going to say. Exactly. And Owen is experiencing these text messages detailing graphic sex acts. So graphic that like the superintendent of the school literally says he was like, "I'm a grown ass man." And like that kind of [ __ ] was making me uncom like if like another adult said that to me. Like it's it is [ __ ] crazy.

32:34 It's beyond when Drew and I Drew and I watched this together the first time I saw it and I we literally had to pause halfway through because it was so shocking.

32:42 So uncomfortable. I was like, I like need a second. Hold on. And it's like I don't think enough

32:46 emphasis emphasis and we'll talk about more of that later. But I don't think enough emphasis either in the documentary was put on how to it was obviously traumatizing for Lauren what was being said to her. But what was being said to Owen like they weren't saying like you know you suck and everyone hates you Owen. They were literally assault sexually assaulting him via words. Like they were literally sexual harassment.

33:12 Like he was being sexually harassed as a child and it's like and the [ __ ] that was being said to him will [ __ ] you up for a long time. Like he that's going to like stay with him.

33:22 Oh, absolutely. And it's like I don't think enough was put on that like how uncomfortable he probably felt and how like he probably had some kind of like weird like cuz that [ __ ] will make you feel like shame for no reason.

33:34 Absolutely it will. Like I feel for him like that as well. Well, going into how we [ __ ] feel for this poor kid.

33:41 So, a year and a half into this, uh, the sheriff got the FBI involved because the sheriff went as far as he could, he said.

33:46 And the FBI needed to get involved to kind of do like the IP tracking and all that, but obviously you don't just like beep and boop onto a computer and figure that out in one day. It takes time.

33:55 No. So, while they were working on their investigation, Owen started dating this girl from another town and her mom started getting messages trying to break Owen and this girl up.

34:07 So, whoever from another town's mom. Yeah. And she was getting like multiple text messages, I think, uh something happened like where they knew what she was posting on Facebook, like that kind of thing.

34:19 And Owen is sitting here being like, I just can't date anybody. Oh, he ended up breaking up. Like they ended up just like going their separate separate ways because he didn't want this girl to experience what Lauren had gone through.

34:30 And like this girl was freaking out like scared being like what the hell's going on right now? And Owen was trying to be like I don't know who it is.

34:37 I don't know who it is and I don't want this to happen to you. And also probably sitting there and being like okay am I ever going to be able to have a relationship with anyone

34:44 or they just going to follow me forever? Or like that's the thing like I can't imagine how

34:50 claustrophobic and like controlled you would feel. Yeah. And totally helpless. Well, and that's the thing. So, he started I'm sure feeling out of control. And his mom Jill said like during sports games like basketball especially, she saw him starting to get like extra aggressive

35:05 like he was letting it out on the field. Exactly. Because it was somewhere where he could be a little more aggressive without actually hurting somebody.

35:12 But she was probably worried about that. But she was. And I at one point in the um cut article

35:17 Oh, it destroy this part destroyed me. The bullying thing. Yeah, I' I haven't talked about the bullying a lot lately, but like I used to talk about it all the time and it apparently pissed some people off. I know why,

35:28 but but uh but when I experienced it in middle school, I was insufferable at home. I got in fights with my parents all the time just because I was so upset and so frustrated and so like just sad all the time and also angry that I would end up like exploding on them just because I was under so much stress and pressure.

35:52 And that's exactly what happened. reading that I was like, "Whoa." Cuz I was like, "I I can feel that feeling he's feeling that apparently Owen got really upset one night according to the article and had said like yelled at Jill, his mother, saying like you're my mother. It's your job to like you should be able to stop this bullying."

36:12 I can't. And she said she just sobbed. I can't imagine how she must have felt because I'm sure all and he know he knew in his heart of hearts all she wanted to do is stop that. But you're he didn't say that to hurt her. He said it because he was exploding on the

36:26 That's the thing. It's a pressure cooker and at some point you do explode. And that must have been [ __ ] awful for him and for her. Like I

36:34 I can't imagine how I It's like I know how he felt in that moment. And now as a mother, I can't [ __ ] fathom how she felt in that moment because if one of my kids looked at me and said, "This is your job. You should be able to make this stop. You're my mother." It would be just take out a katana and stab me through the chest. Like that would literally annihilate me. Well,

37:01 that would annihilate me. This is my opinion, but I do think Jill was ultimately really the one who got this to stop because she basically told the sheriff like, I'm done here and if you don't if you don't do more, I'm going to the papers.

37:14 Yeah. And I was like, good for you. So, she did the work to get something done. Like, I give Jill Jill is a mama bear. She You can tell that she was just doing whatever she could.

37:23 Mhm. So, the FBI uh the FBI agent, Bradley Peter, started doing his thing. He's beeping and booping. It's taken a while. But he finally finds out that these texts are coming, like we said before, from this app called Pinger, which you could use to disguise a phone number. And as we said, you should just No app like that should exist.

37:40 No. But what is great is that the FBI can send a warrant to a place like that. Yeah.

37:46 To get IP addresses. So, he got all these warrants served at like Verizon, Panganger, all these different places to really, you know, put the puzzle pieces together.

37:56 Mhm. And we're about to tell you who it was finally. So, we can really just start ripping.

38:02 I need you all ready. We're going to take a collective deep breath together. If you don't know who this is, you're about to get your [ __ ] rocked. Ready? In through the nose,

38:11 out through the mouth. For a year and a half, these text messages were coming from Lauren's mother. Kendra,

38:24 I need you to really take that in. Starting with the first text that said DTF two 12-year-olds

38:33 to a 12-year-old that Owen was DTF. Now, according to Miss Kendra, th those original texts did not come from her. And we'll get there,

38:43 which that's my opinion. I don't believe it. Yeah. Personally, I don't believe that.

38:48 No. And I don't think a lot of people believe that. So, we'll get there in a minute. So,

38:53 they find out that it's Lauren's mom and literally everybody is like, "No, that's not possible."

38:59 I should say mostly everybody. A mother could not do that to their child. No, that and that was everybody's thought. A mom could never do that to their child.

39:07 And I I still think that I also think a mother could not do that to her mama. Yeah.

39:12 So the sheriff goes to confront her and she denies it for about 3.2 seconds. It's on body cam footage, by the way, in the documentary.

39:20 It's the wildest [ __ ] you'll ever see. And you are going to be [ __ ] seething.

39:26 She barely denies it. They basically say like, "Yeah, so it's coming from your phone, Kendra." And she's like, "No, that can't be."

39:34 She literally goes, "No, no, no." Not like, and like you were saying, if you were ever accused of this and you were not guilty, you'd be like, "Oh my god, no. Like, look through my phone right now. It's not me. I would never do that. What the fuck?" Like, you would be losing your mind and being like,

39:51 "Wait, how is that possible?" Like, I'm not like, you'd be like, "Holy shit." Like, I'll do whatever it is to prove that I didn't do this. I can't believe that you're telling me this right now. She's like, "No."

40:02 And then he says, "What was it, Kendra?" Like some kind of infatuation with Owen. And she goes, "No, nothing like that."

40:09 And the way she says it is like, "No, nothing like that." Like just just so somebody's asking you if you have an as like a I don't know how old she is, but I'm assuming like

40:20 a grown ass woman. Yeah, I was going to say I won't even I won't even assume her age here, but above above the age of 18, if somebody's asking you if you have an infatuation with a boy who was 12 to 14 years old when you sent these text messages, or 12 to 13 and a half, whatever, you would emphatically scream from the rooftop that you don't have any kind of infatuation with this child. But Kendra couldn't because you look at those [ __ ] text messages where she's talking about his private life and

40:52 and private body parts. Private body parts, everybody and her uh body parts. She can't deny that.

41:00 No, you can't deny that there's not some kind of infatuation. Things we mentioned, she wrote

41:06 Yeah. to a 12year-old boy. Yep. like a boy, a baby, a child. Mhm. Barely past singledigit age. Like, like what the [ __ ] is wrong with you, lady? I don't know.

41:25 Like, I don't know how anyone in there, like she there's no way she lives there anymore because I feel like she would literally be like hunted and pitchforked out of there.

41:34 Yeah. like she can't like you know like Beauty and the Beast when they're going to like take down the beast and they all have like the the like flamethrowers and like [ __ ] not flamethrowers but like flaming torches pulled up bazookas and beauty the beast

41:47 listen I probably crazy I in this case honey like I don't there wouldn't be a safe corner on the earth

41:56 I here I like Jill Owen's mom I bow down I was Owen's Mom, I'm not kidding you. Not a safe place on Earth.

42:10 You'd have to move to Jupiter to get away from me. Yeah. Like, you just would. Yeah. And even then, I'd probably figure out a way to Jupiter.

42:18 Pick one of the moons or something. I'd probably go there, too. And I'll take the time to search all of them. Y

42:22 like that's I'm I'll go to another universe. The [ __ ] she said to her child, her young child, is unforgivable. It is [ __ ] disgusting.

42:36 Yeah. And it's And in my opinion, Kendra is a sack of [ __ ] Yeah. And there is something deeply disturbed there.

42:46 Deeply and deeply dangerous. Absolutely. Very because the [ __ ] she said to a child should not be taken lightly.

42:54 She should be on a list in my opinion. And that is that's the part of this and I mentioned it a little bit before. That's the part of the documentary that I don't think I think they could have done a two-part documentary. Totally. One on how she affected Lauren and two how she affected Owen and how [ __ ] up it is that because like we'll get even more into the Lauren stuff, but the Owen stuff is a is a different kind of [ __ ] up.

43:18 It really is. And it's something that really should have been taken more seriously in that documentary and touched upon more.

43:24 Yeah. So, the crazy thing about this too to me is that she basically spent less time in prison. I think then she got 19 months in prison. The text went on longer than that.

43:34 Yeah. The text went on at least 20 months. Yeah. And during that time she couldn't speak she couldn't speak to any of the victims involved which meant that she couldn't speak to her daughter.

43:44 Mhm. And the sad thing in my opinion is that like that was hard for Lauren. Yeah. Because in that in that police like footage cam, like in that police body footage, you can tell, at least I think that Lauren's in shock.

44:00 Oh, I think she's purely that is straight up shock. I think she disassociated out of this planet.

44:07 That's the thing. She looked to me at least like she was fully disassociating. Even like Kendra is literally like grabbing her, trying to comfort her,

44:16 grabbing her hand, like like basically like hugging her while she's sitting down, like stroking her head. I'd be like, "Don't [ __ ] touch me, but also you're the person that I've gone to for comfort my whole life." Like, and you're the person I've gone to for comfort throughout this whole ordeal.

44:31 That's the thing. So, it's like, and now another development has come that I would come to you for comfort for, but it's you.

44:39 Yeah. Like, how do you reconcile that? She's still a young girl and like that's come on. Like that is crazy. It turned out, by the way, too, that Kendra was lying to everybody it seems because

44:52 so they call they were worried obviously about like the when the sheriff was there, he was like, I can't just like leave you two now that I've outed your mom as the person who's been ruining your life and telling you to kill yourself for the past however many.

45:04 Can I say one thing, too? Yeah. That rubbed me the wrong way about that whole thing. Yeah,

45:09 they never should have told Lauren in front of her mother. I feel that way too because she was not allowed to have a genuine reaction.

45:15 I feel that way too. She should have been taken into a separate room or something like that.

45:19 But I don't know what the logistics are there like if they if they needed Kendra's permission to do that

45:25 cuz she's a minor. Cuz she's a minor. Exactly. But it's like I don't know. There was It didn't seem to me like there was a lot of thought put into delivering the message. like maybe perhaps I'm missing a part of the puzzle and I won't claim that I know everything here that like maybe they did ask Kendra like we would like to tell her talk to her alone and Kendra said no.

45:42 Yeah. And again, she's a minor so I don't know how that works. I I feel like if the mom says no, the parent says no, then

45:48 that's just the way it goes. I mean, the only other thing I could think that you could do was to say, "You need to call your husband and tell him that he needs to get home and ask him and be like, "Okay, this is what happened. Tell him the whole thing outside." And then be like, "And we would like to tell your daughter or you and I can tell your daughter

46:09 alone without her present." I just felt like having Kendra in the room did not allow Lauren to actually have

46:16 any reaction. No. like because and she probably didn't I I mean I don't know how she felt because obviously it's very clear in the documentary that she still loves her mother and like she

46:26 she's a strong [ __ ] girl one for getting through all of this and two being able to move on from this and like maintain a relationship or like some kind of relationship with her mom

46:35 and just like maintain like her humanity and kindness because that is something Owen said was what drew him to Lauren was she was supremely kind.

46:45 Yeah. So that is like one of her hallmarks. But it's like she should have I I just feel like maybe in that moment she probably didn't want to be comforted by her mom and like she should have had that option is what kind of thing. She didn't need to be like instantly grabbed at and touched. Her mom was like grabbing her hand and like Lawrence just kind of like limply allowing her to. And it's like

47:22 it's just [ __ ] up. It was a [ __ ] up situation. And I was like I wanted somebody to like remove Kendra from the room cuz I was like she needs to be able to like process this for a second.

47:31 No, that's the thing. I don't think she got any time to process it. And any time to process that for over a year her mom was sending her boyfriend and her explicit sexual messages literally saying like he doesn't like you need like basically I think let me find one that I that I wrote down. It was like

47:51 there were times when she was like you won't sleep with him. That's the one I was trying to define.

47:55 I'll sleep with him. Like, you're not sleeping with him. You're not giving him [ __ ] That's why he's breaking out with you. And I was like,

48:00 this is a quote. You're talking to your child. This is a quote. Maybe you shouldn't have picked cross country over him. You proved he isn't important to you. We were there though. You don't get with him in bed. You don't sneak out with him. You [ __ ] dress awful. Ain't no guy want that.

48:16 That's her mother talking to her. A child. Yep. Like that's beyond I I can't comprehend it. I can't. Nothing about my brain can compute this in any way, shape, or form.

48:31 And her excuses to me, I don't I'm not saying [ __ ] didn't happen to her. I'm not saying that Kendra doesn't have trauma, but to be quite honest, I don't give a [ __ ] about what happened to her because she uses it as an excuse to literally inflict trauma upon two children, including her own.

48:47 More than two children. Exactly. more than two children. And it's like, I'm sorry, a whole community of trauma doesn't give you a [ __ ] free pass to be a goddamn tornado in everybody's life. It just doesn't.

48:59 So many people go to [ __ ] therapy, right? So many people unfortunately do experience trauma. That's unfortunately just the way that our world That's the thing. That's just the way our world works. It's awful. But

49:11 I feel like, and this is my opinion, but like nine out of 10 people you talk to have experienced some kind of pretty awful [ __ ] trauma. Not everybody texts their daughter from an anonymous number telling her to go kill herself and like texts her boyfriend about explicit things about his body.

49:28 Exactly. Because they had trauma. I'm sorry. That doesn't give you a [ __ ] pass. And it doesn't make me feel bad. I feel bad for what happened to you when you were younger. 100%. I don't feel bad for you now that you did this.

49:40 No. Like, no. No. No. No. Period. No. So, also she literally compares this to driving drunk. She like she is so [ __ ] callous. At one point in the documentary, she's like, "Everybody has broken the law at some point. People probably have driven drunk before and not got caught. The only difference is that I got caught." Uh, babe, no. No. to compare sending sexually explicit texts to a 12-year-old boy as a grown adult to someone having a DUI beyond.

50:20 My brain said no. That's comparing that's comparing a zebra to a clementine. Literally,

50:27 that's how that's how insanely they don't exist. That's how the difference is between them. Like

50:33 you can't you can't compare those two things. And she's just like, "Whatever." She's like, "Everyone's broken the law." And it's like, first of all, no. And second of all,

50:42 I've never broken the law like that, babe. Babe, I'm no nope. And it's also like, we're not just talking about breaking the law. Yeah, that's a massive part of this. You [ __ ] told your daughter to kill herself. #bang bang. Do it now.

51:02 Do it now, [ __ ] Kill yourself now, [ __ ] And she also says, cuz they were like, "What the [ __ ] is wrong with you?"

51:10 They're like, "Why did you say that?" And they said, and they said, "Did you think she like were you ever worried that she was going to kill herself?"

51:16 And she had to think about it for a second. She was like, "No, no." Oh, okay. And also, she it's like the anorexic stuff. She literally admits that that was an insecurity. She said Lauren knows she's tall because she knows she's has a small frame and sometimes it can be an insecurity for her.

51:33 And here's the thing. So her mother prayed on that. Here's the thing, too. First, she says that and then and I It's so funny. You had the exact same reaction that I did when I watched it the first time. And then when I watched it with you, you said it. They gave her such an out for that because they were like, "Were you talking to yourself when you were sending those messages?"

51:51 No. Yeah. That interviewer, I was literally like, "Shut the [ __ ] up." I was like, "Don't give her a pass like don't make her a victim.

51:57 And she was like, "Maybe I was. Maybe I I fell into that anorexic category, too, cuz I was so small."

52:04 And it's like, first of all, can we stop throwing around the dosage of anorexic?

52:09 It's not just like anorexic isn't just like you're small. Yeah. It's like thin does not mean anorexic.

52:14 Way beyond that. So, you know, there's that. And it's like too also like there was that whole thing where they um you know Kendra as this like phantom

52:24 uh like parent of of her daughter would say like call her like a JV hoe. Yeah. And like you're not good enough for varsity because she didn't make it on the varsity team.

52:36 As someone who play and it sounds like you know as someone who played sports and like sports meant a lot to you.

52:42 It did. It meant a lot to Lauren. And I remember sophomore year I didn't make it on varsity for softball and I was [ __ ] devastated. It was a huge moment in my life. It shattered my confidence. Yeah. I was so upset and it's like my mother heard all of that. She she was there when I was crying about it and saying I'm not good at this and I should just quit and why am I even doing it? Her mother also heard that I'm sure because Lauren sports was everything to her. M. So for her to use even that that little like JV ho, you're not good enough for varsity. She probably comforted her through not getting on varsity and then to pull that out and use it on her. I'm sorry. Kendra's [ __ ] diabolical diabolical.

53:31 Diabolical behavior. Not only that, like there were text messages that said things like that. There were also pictures of Lauren and Owen together with Lauren's face crossed out and then words all over the picture saying JV ho [ __ ] Uh not like worthless like like

53:50 nobody will miss you. Nobody will miss you. All these [ __ ] awful things. Writing writing JV Ho alone would have been awful.

53:58 Like and again remember this is her mother. Her mother. I need I can't stress this enough. Her mother brought up a picture of her own baby girl.

54:11 Her only her only baby girl and wrote that [ __ ] over her [ __ ] face. I can't reconcile that in my mind. And for her to sit there and be like, you know, if I could go back and change it out. No, you wouldn't.

54:28 No. No, you wouldn't. Because you did it for two years. Again, I can't stress enough that same woman who brought up the picture of her baby's face, crossed it out, wrote all those things, told her to kill herself, was texting her boyfriend, explicit acts, then had the [ __ ] gall in that documentary to sit sit there and talk about hearing Lauren's heartbeat for the first time. Oh my god. And how she realized in that moment that like you think you can love this this baby so much and then you realize that like you have more love than you ever you don't love there. That's not love. You don't treat someone you love that and that is your baby. You're supposed to keep them safe and you're praying on her insecurities and fost you're nurturing them

55:10 creating them. She nurtured those insecurities that she had and made them bigger.

55:14 Mhm. Because no matter what, after this, not only did she did Lauren think for a a period of time that her peers were feeding on those insecurities,

55:25 she realized now she's sitting there going, "Holy [ __ ] my own mother said that [ __ ] to me. That won't go away anytime soon."

55:33 That is a the damage is lasting there. That is a mind [ __ ] Yeah, mind [ __ ] of a century. And for Kendra to sit there and act like she is any sort of victim,

55:45 I was [ __ ] living. I am I'm still seething just thinking about her [ __ ] face sitting there trying to act like it's like she's the victim.

55:57 Yep. She also said, and this makes no sense. So remember I said I think somewhere in this that she claims that she didn't send those original text messages like when they started around that Halloween party. She said that she didn't send those and that the reason why she eventually started sending the text messages was to get to the bottom of who sent the original ones.

56:21 Uh, one, no sense. That makes no sense. Two, what did talking about explicit sex acts have to do with getting to the bottom of it? And three, what would um telling your daughter to kill herself, how is that going to help you uncover the real villain here? And then at one point she said, "I think it was my escape."

56:41 Telling her daughter to kill herself was your escape. Prison. I don't think that was touched upon enough in that documentary, that part of it.

56:51 No. So, here's the thing. It basically ends by saying that like uh Lauren I think Lauren basically didn't get to talk to her mom during the trial, but then she and she couldn't see her while she was in prison, but they exchanged emails. The emails are over the top on Kendra side of things in my opinion. She's way too much.

57:09 Yeah. A lot of people like including professionals, nobody can like diagnose her without her being their client, whatever. But a lot of people believe that this is a case of munch like digital munchousins,

57:19 which it appears to at least resemble that. I think it's very I think there's even deeper [ __ ] though to be quite honest. I don't even think it ends there.

57:29 So, here's the thing. So, that's basically like how the documentary ends. And like Lauren says like she hopes they can repair their relationship and she hopes her mom gets the help she needs.

57:37 And remember, I don't know if we totally touched upon it before, but like that she was lying about having a job for a year.

57:43 Oh my god, we forgot to touch on that. Yeah. When the dad shows up when they actually I I feel her dad's name is Sean. I feel horrible for this man as well. Um, he thought she had a job for the entire time she was doing this and it turned out she didn't. She got fired for, you know, texting at work.

58:03 Yeah. And, uh, allegedly, according to the article, they literally put her on a plan, performance plan,

58:09 performance plan because she was spending too much time on outside things. according to the article.

58:13 According to the article and then like she decided to leave, she quit and never told him and just they lost houses. Like she was claiming to be working and also like so he he was lied to for the full two years about all of this including the fact that she was bringing money and like wasn't cuz she also had control of the finances.

58:33 Yeah. And when they when he gets there he's like well he's like did you did you get her phones? Like did you look at her phones? And the and the her sheriff is like "Phoes?"

58:42 She gave us one. Because when they said, "Do you have anything else?" She said, "I have a laptop." And he was like, "Oh, no. She's got a couple of phones."

58:49 Yeah. And then when they go in there and ask her for them, she acts, first of all, she's shocked that they know about that second phone. Which I was like, "You're a [ __ ] diabolical."

58:57 And she tries to say like, "No, there's no Yeah, no, I don't know." And then she he's like, one of the other sheriff is literally like, "It's fine. I'll just tear this [ __ ] house apart." Like, and you can tell he's like, "Give me a reason." Yeah.

59:09 Like, let's go. If I knew everything I knew going into that, I wouldn't have even given her the opportunity. I just ripped the house apart looking.

59:17 He's like, "I'll rip the house apart." And she's like, "It's outside." Now that when she was outside

59:23 and Lauren's out like swimming. So, I'm like, "Was your daughter sending to her out there?"

59:27 Was your daughter like enjoying her lake day swimming and you're sitting there texting her horrible things?

59:33 Yeah. So, she wasn't working all day and would just text Owen and Kendra or Lauren all day

59:43 and all night and they were in the article it actually says that somebody in town saw her parked in like a church parking lot one day in the middle of the day like with her head down

59:55 and like when she looked up and was like oh like waved. It was Owen's father. I was going to say cuz it was Jill later who like said that Kendra brought it up later out of nowhere and was like, "Oh, he saw me. It must have been like funny. I spilled coffee on my lap and I was trying to like wipe it off and she was like, "Why did she bring that up?" And it was like to cover her ass cuz she knew she got caught.

1:00:16 And it's like, so this lady for almost two years was lying to her entire family,

1:00:22 putting her entire family at risk financially emotionally everything. and was spending her entire day ruthlessly texting nasty ass [ __ ] and death threats to her child and her child's then ex-boyfriend.

1:00:40 Yep. And sexually sitting god knows where in the middle of the day texting sexually explicit [ __ ] to a 12 and 13 and 14year-old boy. Like what the [ __ ] also potentially creating these other like it does the documentary never touched on that in the article like very briefly touches on it but I don't know how it all worked but could have created those accounts that were like fakes of Chloe sending messages.

1:01:11 Yeah. Like what the [ __ ] Are you kidding me? Like what is that? And it sounds like according to the article that like there was always like a very big focus on Owen.

1:01:22 Yeah. in that family like that in that like from Kendra. Yeah. So, this is a direct quote from uh from the article and they this was the article was written before the documentary came out. So, they refer to Lauren as Ashley because they she was still a minor at the time.

1:01:38 So, it's a this is direct from the article. After Ashley started dating Owen, her mother came along too. At every opportunity, Kendra would ask them to wrap their arms around each other for a photo which of Ashley would turn into presents for Owen, like a personalized phone case. When they hung out at the Lucaris, Kendra would chime in. Why don't you jump on the trampoline? Take a spin in Ashley's Ranger utility vehicle. Kendra talked about the kids. Jill says quote like they were going to be together forever. Once a friend Paige saw Kendra take Ashley's phone, read her her daughter's text with Owen. Then as Ashley Kendra typed out a reply, I love you. And Jill says it. And again, it's not touch it's so briefly touched on in this article, but sorry, in this uh in the documentary, the article,

1:02:23 which I imagine they needed to leave things vague to get Kendra to agree to participate in this documentary because I'm still shocked they did.

1:02:32 I It was one of those things where like I was like, how did this not turn into like we reached out to Kendra for a comment and she has never replied to us

1:02:40 that Netflix when she when they when she was like, yeah, totally. You know, they were like, "Cameras, cameras, cameras." Like, they were literally like, "Get in the car." Like, "Holy [ __ ] guys."

1:02:50 It's like in Bravo and they're like, "I need Andy and a camera now." Somebody like repels from the ceiling with the with the waiver for her to sign and it's just like, "Sign here. Sign here." She's like, "Let's go."

1:02:58 Okay. But at the same time, who knows? Because in the documentary, her cousin says

1:03:04 she This is her cousin saying she loves attention. She said if you were if Kendra was here right now and you were talking to me, she would be dancing over there trying to get your attention. attention on her.

1:03:14 So, it's like it's bonkers. It is. So, we we were kind of like touching upon it before how maybe they like left some things out or like didn't go too hard into some things to get Kendra to be a part of it. But one thing that they did include was Jill saying that she thought that it like maybe, you know, there was the whole Lauren piece, but also that maybe Kendra had some kind of infatuation with Owen.

1:03:40 Yeah. And that was Jill thinking that. Yeah. And Owen also felt that way. Owen also felt that way. And it seems like a lot of other people felt that way. And that's where the the cut article kind of like goes into that a little bit more. Uh here's another quote.

1:03:55 In 8th grade, Kendra signed up to coach Owens track team, becoming, he says, like a second mom. A regular spectator at Owens matches. She drove Ashley 3 hours across Michigan to watch one of his championship games. Once Kendra even suggested turning Owen's tournament in Florida into a Lucari family vacation to which Jill had to gently say no which like Jill was probably like okay and like she even says it she's like I just thought like okay I guess she's just you know we're good friends we're family friends I guess maybe she's just like

1:04:25 being supportive like her family's very sports focused so like maybe they're just kind of extending it off to Owen but like still even she was like

1:04:32 it's a little much no like you we're not doing that like what the [ __ ] And it's like you also have to rememberth grade they're in seventh grade. This is also around the time that these text messages start and it seems like also around the time where her job is hanging on by a thread.

1:04:46 Exactly. And it's like you're going to take time off to go to Florida to watch a a 12-year-old compete in a championship. That's not your 12-year-old.

1:04:54 Oh, yeah. And also, uh Kendra is an IT professional. Yeah. So, that'll show you exactly how, you know, she got that far.

1:05:02 Mhm. It's you can't make this [ __ ] up. It's strange. You can't make this [ __ ] up.

1:05:10 It is strange. And obviously like Sean Kendra Kendra's ex-husband now divorced her.

1:05:17 Yeah. And I think he had complete he has complete custody of Lauren who I you know they seem to be doing well together.

1:05:25 They seem like they have a great relationship so that's awesome. Um, but yeah, and then I guess one final note is that Lifetime kind of made like a their own version loosely based on this story. Um, it's called Mommy Meanest and

1:05:44 that's the most time [ __ ] I've ever heard. Uh, I'm going to watch it immediately because Lisa Rena is the mom and it says she is a Mchavelian brunette mother harassing her daughter. I was like, Lisa Rena, what? Ash literally was like, "I'm in."

1:05:58 I said, "I'm watching it. I'm in." I don't think this documentary, Mark my words right here, right now, I don't think this documentary is the last we're going to hear about this case.

1:06:09 No, I think there I think it goes a little deeper. Yeah. And I think there's a lot more there.

1:06:16 I'm telling you, they could have done a part two just on the stuff she was saying to Owen and really focused on the Lauren stuff in one and Owen in another because they are two different sides of the same coin. Yes.

1:06:26 And equally as horrifying on either side, just in totally different ways. Well, and what bothers me is like she never she never

1:06:35 got charged with any like sexual crime. Yeah. Like misconduct. Like this is like Owens was able to say to her in her like hearing cuz they didn't get to go to like full trial. He said like I'm going to be scarred by this for life. Like

1:06:52 you might move on but I won't. Yeah. He literally said like, "You'll move on, but I won't. Like, I'm going this is going to affect me for the rest of my life." And it will because Oh, and sorry.

1:07:01 Finding out that that lady was sending you that [ __ ] or talking about you like that. And not only that, finding out that she was sending you that [ __ ] talking to you about like sending texts to you about those kind of things, and then finding out that after you broke up, you and her daughter broke up,

1:07:17 she was stalking your new girlfriend another town away. Like this is a woman who like in my opinion this feels like this woman was obsessed with this little boy and would not let him

1:07:29 move forward. Allegedly in my opinion allegedly in my opinion that's what it feels like though

1:07:34 100%. And and that's what it could look like. It would feel like that to me if I was Owen. I'd be like

1:07:39 and if I was Owen's mom that would [ __ ] me up. Yeah. So uh that I think that's everything we have to say about Unknown Number The High School Catfish. I will remember this documentary as long as I breathe air on this earth.

1:07:52 It blew my [ __ ] mind. I need to know if some of you guys like went into this not knowing who it was.

1:08:00 Oh, please tell. I'm actually like very I'm envious of the people who didn't get it spoiled because I got it spoiled on TikTok before I watched it

1:08:08 and so I went in knowing even going in knowing I was still it's still wild. It still blew me over. But I wonder what it must feel like to get that complete shock.

1:08:18 There are so many I think I said it on one of the last episodes we did. There are so many Tik Tok compilations of people finding out just being like, "What? Oh my god."

1:08:26 I saw one the other day that was like some lady and she turned and she just goes, "I knew it.

1:08:31 I saw that. I knew it. I saw like, oh shit." Yeah. Yeah. It's unthinkable. But damn.

1:08:39 One of the one of the the most compelling documentaries I've seen in a while. I hope everyone else is thriving and doing well and healing in this story except for Kendra.

1:08:49 I don't give a [ __ ] about Kendra. Yeah. So, that was our first bonus episode. It was fun to talk to you guys about a documentary. I don't think we talked about like a film since we did uh shockingly vile, wickedly super nasty, gross disgusting

1:09:05 super nasty with Zack Efron. With Zack Efron. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, that was like many years ago. That was many moons ago.

1:09:12 So many moons. Yeah. So, we hope you keep listening. We hope you enjoy the bonus episodes.

1:09:18 And we hope you keep it weird, but not so weird that you don't tune in to our uh bonus episodes, which are going to happen one Friday a month. Woohoo. Yay. Bye girl.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Episode 708- September Bonus Episode: Unknown Number: The High School Catfish"?

Ash (Host), Elena (Host), Kendra (Guest), Lauren (Guest), Owen (Guest), Sheriff Mike Maine (Guest).

What is "Episode 708- September Bonus Episode: Unknown Number: The High School Catfish" about?

The content explores the intriguing story of "Unknown Number: The High School Catfish," focusing on a catfishing incident that unfolds in Beiel City, Michigan. The hosts, Ash and Elena, discuss the details and complexities of the case while providing a spoiler warning for those who haven't seen it yet.

What is mentioned in this Morbid | Podcast episode?

13 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Unknown Number: The High School Catfish, Kendra Lucari, Owen Lucari, Beal City, Jill Lucari, Chloe Wilson. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Episode 708- September Bonus Episode: Unknown Number: The High School Catfish"?

The episode runs 1 h 11 min; the transcript is about 14,168 words in 366 timestamped sections.

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