Transcript

Episode 741: Episode Revisit: The Schoolbus Kidnapping of 1976

From Morbid | Podcast · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 54 min · 11,341 words · 287 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Episode 741: Episode Revisit: The Schoolbus Kidnapping of 1976", an episode of Morbid | Podcast published December 29, 2025 (54 min, about 11,341 words). It mentions 15 people, works and ideas, including Fred, Fred Woods, Santa Monica, Larry Park, Richard Shoenfeld.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Chailla, California, Edward Ray
  2. – 15:00: Fred Woods, James Shoenfeld, Richard Shoenfeld, Santa Monica
  3. – 20:00: Larry Park
  4. – 25:00: Santa Monica, Carjo Labender
  5. – 35:00: Fred Woods, Larry Park
  6. – 40:00: Fred Woods, Richard Shoenfeld
  7. – 45:00: Larry Park
  8. – 50:00: California School Employees Association, Chowchilla, Dr. Lenor Terror, Ed Ray
  9. – 54:14: Chowchilla

Notable quotes from "Episode 741: Episode Revisit: The Schoolbus Kidnapping of 1976"

  • It took place in Chailla, California, and it's known as the school bus kidnapping of 1976.
    about Chailla, California · at
  • The men were 24y old Fred Woods, 24year-old James Shoenfeld, and his younger brother, 22year-old Richard Shoenfeld. I was expecting them to not be 22 and 24. That's wild.
    about Fred Woods · at
  • You might cry. the youngest baby on the bus was a little girl named Monica and she was only 5 years.
    about Santa Monica · at
  • Yeah. Now, one of the survivors, Larry Park, who is amazing, I'll tell you why later, told CBS News, quote, As a six-year-old, six years old, the only way that I can describe this.
    about Larry Park · at
  • One survivor, Carjo Labender, was 10 at the time.
    about Carjo Labender · at
  • I got to go. And Ed, the California School Employees Association in Sacramento presented Ed with the associations association's citation for outstanding.
    about California School Employees Association · at
  • Childhood trauma, much less how to treat it. Despite their varied backgrounds, every Chowchilla kid I interviewed suffered from PTSD symptoms for years after the kidnapping and burial alive.
    about Chowchilla · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Fred — Person · 4 mentions
  • Fred Woods — Person · 3 mentions · first at
  • Santa Monica — Person · 3 mentions · first at
  • Larry Park — Person · 3 mentions · first at
  • Richard Shoenfeld — Person · 2 mentions · first at
    The men were 24y old Fred Woods, 24year-old James Shoenfeld, and his younger brother, 22year-old Richard Shoenfeld. I was expecting them to not be 22 and 24. That's wild.
  • Edward Ray — Person · 1 mention · first at
    5 to 14 were on a bus to be brought back to their homes. The bus was driven by Edward Ray. he was known as Ed, but his name was Frank Edward Ray. He was previously a farmer…
  • James Shoenfeld — Person · 1 mention · first at
    The men were 24y old Fred Woods, 24year-old James Shoenfeld, and his younger brother, 22year-old Richard Shoenfeld. I was expecting them to not be 22 and 24. That's wild.
  • Carjo Labender — Person · 1 mention · first at
  • Ed Ray — Person · 1 mention · first at
    That. And then five weeks after the kidnapping, the entire town of Chowilla created and celebrated Ed Ray and Children's Day.
  • Dr. Lenor Terror — Person · 1 mention · first at
    A woman named Dr. Lenor Terror, who is a San Francisco psychiatrist, actually wrote a book called Too Scared to Cry. she wrote about their trauma in this book. And she said, quote,.
  • Adolf Ash — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

  • Too Scared to Cry — Book · 1 mention · first at
    A woman named Dr. Lenor Terror, who is a San Francisco psychiatrist, actually wrote a book called Too Scared to Cry. she wrote about their trauma in this book. And she said…

Companies & orgs

Places & events

Full transcript with timestamps

Hey weirdos. My name is Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is a mini morbad. Mini, mini, mini, mini, mini more bed. Mini morbid. Mini morbid. Mini more bed.

It's so little. So little. Tiny. Small. I can't even see it. You can't see it. How are you going to read it?

I can see it. Oh, just kidding. She's This is what she's telling me, folks. She's telling me that it's a a real mini.

It really is. We'll find out. Guys, I promise it's an actual mini. I swear. Mainly because I'm tired this week. And this case just happens to be a mini.

Is it a little tiny small? It's little tiny small. Oh, I made a really gross mouth noise just then that you're going to die when you edit out later.

Cool. Sorry. Thanks. What did everyone do for Halloween? Yeah. I hope you guys all had a spooky, ooky, spectacular Halloween. Um, on the Facebook page, people have been posting photos of all their Halloween costumes, and you guys [ __ ] kill it.

I'm just saying, whoever dressed up as old Greg, you won everything because that's been my favorite video since I When did I even find that?

It's true. She found that way young. I think I was probably like 9 or 10. And me and my best friend Allison at the time used to literally watch it over and over again, yell about it to each other, be like, "Do you love me?

Do you love could you learn to love me?" And you know what's funny? The guy who plays old Greg, so Ash used to tell me about this all the time, and I was like, "Yeah okay."

And she never thought it was funny, everybody. Well, I never watched it. Oh, you didn't watch it?

Yeah, I never watched it. I was always just like, "Yeah, I've seen like like I know what it is. I've seen like the screenshot of it and then

but she never she never laughed at my impersonations of old Greg. I didn't. And then uh Mama loves The Great British Bake Off.

And by mama, she means herself and not me. Except Ash watches it literally every time I put it on. So

I have no choice. She could pretend, but she loves it. But I really love it. Yeah, you get into it.

I love baking shows of all kinds and cooking shows. So that's just who I am as a person. But the Great British Bake Off is so soothing and so wonderful. And the guy who hosts it, what's his [ __ ] name?

Old Greg. His name is not Old Greg, but the comedian slash actor slash whatever he is. He's one of the hosts now. And he's the guy who is old Greg. And when he mentioned it on an episode, I was like, "Whoa, Ash, it's old Greg hosting." So, our worlds collided.

I just want to know I want to know why he hasn't said anything on the baking show about it.

He did. That's what I just said. Oh, he said it. Oh, he said it on the show. Yeah, on the show. He said, "I used to play a merman named old Greg."

I love that. And somebody was like, "That's cool." And then somebody else was like, "You have a drunk Bailey's from a shoe."

And now I've watched it and it's hilarious. So now I'm in. I do watercolors. So you know what? Good job, old Greg. Mother liquor.

Good job person who dressed up as old Greg. You killed it. I It made my whole year.

So yeah, everybody, honestly, everybody did an amazing job. There were a bunch of like Beetlejuices. There were a lot of Adam's family. There was just so many good ones. So you guys killed it. Peruge. Um this year I just brought my kids out because it was actually kind of warm outside which was kind of nice. And down the street from us, there's this house that in front of it, it has this like weird like almost like a mosselum looking thing that sits on the sidewalk. So you walk

very creepy. Yeah. You walk by like the door to the mausoleum kind of thing. And it's always spooky. It's always been this spooky thing. And then on Halloween, the owner of the house is brilliant. and they open it up and they put a fog machine in there and lights and they make it like a little haunted mausoleum that everybody can go into and the owner is in there dressed up like spooking you out.

That's so cool. So, we went by. Now, my kids are three and a half years old. We go by it and I'm like, "Oh, yeah, it's fine. Let's just scoot by it." Cuz I didn't want them to get freaked out. And as we're going by, one of my kids was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, mom, wait a second. I want to go in the cave." And I was like, "What?" I was like, "Well, it's a little spooky in there. Are you sure?" and she was like, "I want to go in the cave." We went to like six more houses

the entire time. The entire time she's like getting free candy and she's like, "But I'd like to go in the cave. I don't want to trickor treat anymore." And I was like, "Okay, it's spooky." And she goes, "I love spooky, mama." And I was like,

and then Elena melted into a puddle on the floor and died. I have done it right.

And then she became resurrected. Yes. And then I took my three and a halfyear-old into this mausoleum room and she loved it. The other one, not so much. She gave it a try, but then she was like, "No, no." And she had John pick her up. But one of them was into it.

I straight up fell asleep at 7:30 on Halloween because it was the day after our live show and I hit a [ __ ] wall from all the adrenaline. But don't worry, I woke up like an hour later and watched Texas Chainsaw by myself. I love that for you.

It was so soothing. We actually because that's one of my favorite parts of Halloween is that every single horror movie ever is on. Yes.

And you can just flick through the channels and just hit all kinds of them. So I go through and Beetlejuice is on. So I'm like, "Oh, hell yeah." So I go to Beetlejuice and John's like, "Yeah, I've never seen this movie."

Um, I've never seen Beetlejuice the whole way through. I've only seen Bits and Pieces.

Who are both of you? Who are both of these people that are in my house right now? I was got to my house

luckily cuz I was like oh no this could change our relationship if we watch this and he's like this is dumb I'm going to be like what's happening though and we watched it and John was like all right that's a sick movie like he liked

and I I have the bits and pieces I've seen have been good pieces he loved it and now I have to get him to watch the Adams family and Adam's family values cuz he never saw those either. Um, unpopular opinion. I don't love the original Adams family.

No, Adam's Family Values is way better. I like Adam's Family Adams Family. I don't think that's an unpopular opinion. I like the original one.

Yeah, me too. But the Adam's Family Values is superior. Mhm. I like when she's like, "Wednesday at the age where she only has one thing on her mind and the mom is like, "Boys and Wednesday's like homicide because I feel as though that was you as a child."

It's 100%. I think I related so hard to Wednesday Adams and that when I was little.

I love that for you. But enough about all my spooky childhood [ __ ] Uh, this is a mini episode, so we've actually done more talking than we normally do.

Let's shut the [ __ ] up. Let's shut the [ __ ] up and get to the case, shall we?

We shall. All right, let me preface this. I debated whether to preface this story with um it having a happy ending or not ahead of time. I'm going to preface it with it has a happy ending because it it kind of needs to be prefaced that way.

Okay. I know I needed to hear that and um I have a lot of like quotes from the people involved in it. So, it kind of gives that away.

It's like 7 o'lock in the morning. Are you going to really [ __ ] me up? Um I mean it's not like gruesome. It's It's more just like slightly disturbing, but it has a happy ending.

I have to do seven blow dries later, so don't be [ __ ] up my day. I'm gonna [ __ ] up your No, I'm going to make it okay at the end.

Okay. So, this was from July 15th, 1976. Oo, vintage. Very vintage. And actually, I am going to um bring up the person who suggested this case right now because they suggested it to me like literally yesterday. And when they did, I just happened to like peek at it and I was like, I'll take a look at it real quick because I take a look at the cases you give me that I don't know. And um this person's name was Thomas. So, thank you, Thomas. I'm not going to say your last name because I don't know if you want me to. But um I looked this up and when I looked it up, I was like, "Oh, this is perfect for a mini and I have to do it now." Cuz I was just so fascinated by it.

You like threw your other mini out the window. I literally did and I and I couldn't believe I had never heard of this. Well, tell me what happened.

It took place in Chailla, California, and uh it's known as the school bus kidnapping of 1976.

So, the day before the final day of summer school at Dairland Elementary School, 26 children ranging in age from 5 to 14 were on a bus to be brought back to their homes. The bus was driven by Edward Ray. Uh he was known as Ed, but his name was Frank Edward Ray. He was previously a farmer, but he later became a bus driver. The kids absolutely loved him. And he was just one of those bus drivers that we all remember that we loved. You know, it was like

they were just nice, sweet, they clearly loved kids. They cared about you. Like

the total opposite of the bus driver that you remember that like hated kids and was the worst bus driver ever.

I never had a bad bus driver. Really? I thought everybody had like that warm fuzzy bus driver and then that like demon sp one time and I was little and I forgot to get off at my stop and then he kept going and I was like no no no like you're supposed to stop there and he was like well you missed it and I was like I'm five.

Oh my god. Yeah. So you did have a terrible poster. I did. I just I think you just resurrected a memory.

Yeah. I was going to say that was a a deeply buried memory that you had. That was a deep cut. So Ed was great. Like and Ed was legitimately great. Like we we love Ed. Uh now according to a CNN report on the case, the kids all loved this summer school so much as well that they all signed a petition that day to have it last two more weeks.

Shut up. That's so cute. Isn't that adorable? I would never have signed that petition.

I know. But apparently it was all that like they have all these interviews with these kids now because again this has a happy ending. Uh and they all talk about how like it was like so much fun. They loved it. They did. It was almost like a summer camp kind of thing.

Um, so these were all just happy kids who were going home after a fun day at summer school

while driving down a rural road. Rural is so hard to say. Truly a rural road. Rural road.

Road. The rural juror. Um, the bus came across a white creek van that had parked across the road and was blocking their way a bit.

Yes. The bus had to maneuver around it to get by. And as they went by, Ed being the kind man he was, noticed the hood was up as on the in the van. So, he stopped briefly and just called out the window, "Does anyone need any help?" Cuz he thought this person had broken down.

Don't ever offer help. Don't ever offer help. What? What? I think I I said this at the live show to somebody. I don't remember who, but like my main like affirmation that I use in life is never help anyone.

That's just what just never help anyone. I just won't do it. Um, so as soon as he offered the help, three men with panty hoes over their heads jumped on the bus with guns.

What? Saw off shotguns. What? Pointed at this kind man in a bus full of essentially babies.

What? Yeah. the and I use I use the term men very loosely here. Let's say creatures

because what man or human jumps on a bus full of children with a kindly older bus driver with a saw off shotgun?

Not any man I'm trying to know. This case made me so I was so angry by the end of it at these guys

and they're all alive and like literally [ __ ] all of you because like these guys are disgusting.

I just want to know what the whole point of this thing is. Oh, it's ridiculous. There really is. This is the worst part. There's hardly a point to this.

Keep going. There is, but this it's a stupid point. Uh, the men were 24y old Fred Woods, 24year-old James Shoenfeld, and his younger brother, 22year-old Richard Shoenfeld. I was expecting them to not be 22 and 24. That's wild.

It's because I It's frustrating. All three of these guys had come from rich families and Fred had a trust fund of like over $und00 million waiting for him.

So, Fred, what the [ __ ] you be doing? So, what are you doing? So, you may be wondering why the [ __ ] they did this. Well, I'll tell you in a bit. Uh, they demanded Ed to go to the back of the bus and they screamed at the kids to shut up and follow orders. Of course, the kids are freaking out, and Ed was just trying to calm them all down. One of the survivors, Jennifer Brown Hyde, as an adult, said in an interview, quote, "Edward kept telling his kids, "Just be quiet. Sit down. Do what they say." Edward was speaking in a harsh tone, and that normally was not Edward. That that normally was not the Edward that we knew and loved. So, poor Ed is trying to be like, "Guys, like, sit the [ __ ] down."

you know, like trying really and he's like getting he's trying to be like a little more firm with them to make them listen because he knows if they don't listen,

we're [ __ ] This could get really bad really fast. I have one of those lumps. I'm going to start crying.

Oh, I while I was reading it, there was a couple of times I was like, "Oh no, what if I cry on the podcast for the first time?"

Oh god. So, that means I'm definitely going to cry. You might cry. Uh the youngest baby on the bus was a little girl named Monica and she was only 5 years.

No. And there's three men with sawoff shotguns yelling at them. Now, apparently, like I said, the kidnappers were wearing panty hoes over their heads, but they wore them so that the legs dangled down like next to their heads,

which is stupid. So, like a like bunny ears. So, Monica asked one of them if he was the Easter Bunny.

And here I go sobbing. I mean, that when I heard that this little 5-year-old is like, "Are you the Easter Bunny?" And this guy has like a saw off shotgun in her face and she's like, "Are you the Easter Bunny?"

Oh my god. Like this poor little baby. Oh my god. She's like, "What the [ __ ] is Easter Bunny doing right now?

What are you?" And that must have been Oh. So one of the men was pointing the shotgun at these children while another one drove the bus.

He drove the bus through uh straight through a bamboo field and um all of these kids in the bus were jolting around. They said they were being thrown around the bus. Like it was really aggressive and awful. When it finally came to a stop in the bamboo fields, there was another van waiting for them.

No. The men pulled the bus up to the back of that van and forced half the kids in there and the other half with Ed, the driver, into the white van that they initially used. Uh, the vans were outfitted with wood paneling and blacked out windows. They had made the kids jump from the bus to the vans so they wouldn't leave any footprints. So, this was very planned.

Wow. Yeah. Now, one of the survivors, Larry Park, who is amazing, I'll tell you why later, uh, told CBS News, quote, "As a six-year-old, six years old,

the only way that I can describe this darkness in the van is that it was trying to get me."

Like, he these poor kids are in pitch black in these vans. My god. And they're all crammed in there. The kidnapper drove these kids in two in two vans, blacked out vans in 100 degree weather. They were 100° in those vans. Oh my god.

Want to know how long they drove them for? Like hours. 11 hours. 11 hours. 11 hours straight with no water. No bathroom breaks. So these poor children are not drinking water. They're all screaming and crying. Some of them are as young as 5 years old.

Probably getting like dehydrated. They're peeing. They're like nowhere to go to the bathroom. Some of them are vomiting. Like there's And they're stuck in these tiny little vans.

Oh my god. And Yeah. And poor Ed is in one of the vans with one of them just trying to keep them all like

I'm probably like, "What the [ __ ] is happening in the other van?" And he's sitting there thinking, "I don't know what's going to happen." And I'm having to tell these kids everything's going to be all right. And I don't know that everything's going to be all right. You know,

and if you're sitting in that position, you're like, "Everything is surely not going to be all right."

He's responsible for these 26 babies and he's and he's instead of like just cowering and being like, "I don't know what's going to happen." And crying himself, which I probably would.

Yeah. He's like stepping up and being like, I need to be I I might die, right? But I need to pretend that I'm not scared of that. These kids like that. This guy's amazing.

Like we love Ed. Uh so as this is happening, parents are obviously freaking out because their very young children are nowhere to be found after supposedly getting on a bus at school.

Well, this is like all day at this point, 11 hours. And they are all calling the police and then they um and then they all started helping the police look for the bus because that was the first thing they were like, "We got to find this. Where could this bus have gone?" Right? It's a huge [ __ ] school bus.

They're probably like, "Uh, Ed." Yeah. And I think that's probably people are like, "What the [ __ ] Like, where did it go?"

Uh, the FBI was called in to help. It was mayhem. And finally, they found the bus via via an air search because it was so well hidden in the bamboo field.

Wow. That they just found So, the parents just found this abandoned school bus and they found tire tracks moving away from the school bus, but again, no footprints. So they it was clear and the police said it's clear that somebody has pulled another vehicle up to this bus and driven away.

Oh my god. Can you imagine being a parent? Like I can't imagine any my child's being on that bus and just seeing like they've been kidnapped off a bus, right?

Like I like how do you wrap your brain around? I don't even So children are screaming, crying, like I said, like vomiting. It was a nightmare situation. the older kids as well as Ed the driver were just trying to console them. Even the older kids were stepping up just trying to like

these kids are amazing and this bus driver is amazing because these older kids were like there was some that were like the oldest one was 14 his name was Michael

and he like stepped right up and just became an adult for these kids like you know and meanwhile these are children the 14 years old you're a child and you're having to be an adult for these little kids trying to be like it's okay. Um, they said that Ed was trying to keep them calm by singing them songs like Boogie Nights. Love will keep us together. And if you're happy and you know it, clap your

Oh my god. While they're in the I'd be like, I'm not happy and I know it. Well, I guess they changed the words to if you're sad and you know it, clap your hands.

Oh my god. Yeah, it's so sad. Isn't this just like sad and you know it? And literally everyone in the van is like clap clap.

Like what? Uh after almost 12 hours in that van, uh they were driven off the road and were again thrown all around the vans because they were like off-roading at this point. Then they stopped the vans. So first the kidnappers reached in the van and took Ed out and shut the door.

No. So these kids said they just saw the van door open, Ed be dragged out, and the door shut.

Does Ed die? No. Oh, good. Then the kids said they would open the door and just grab the nearest kid to the door, take them out of the van, and shut the door. So they were doing this one at a time. So they would do it again and again and again to every kid. So these kids all had no idea what was happening, right? As far as they knew, they were being taken out one by one and killed,

right? I mean, that's what it looks like, right? One takes out, you don't hear anything, you don't see anything. Next one gets taken out. Like I'd be like, "Yeah, they're taking them out and shooting them in the woods." and leaving them for dead. So, as they were pulled from the van, one man asked their name, the other asked their age, and the third asked their address. They also took a little piece of clothing from each of them. So, the oldest boy named Michael Marshall, the one that was 14, uh he said that the kids were just clinging to him in the van that he was in, like all the younger kids, they were just clung to him.

Um and he was just trying to be there for them. 14 years old. Uh he said finally it it was just he and the youngest the girl named Monica who was five years old in the van

and she was just clinging to him for dear life. The kidnapper came and he went to grab Monica but Michael said he couldn't bear to hand him her over to him.

No because again he had no idea what was happening. Right. And so he said he pushed her behind him and went ahead of her like a brave [ __ ] man at 14 years old. like a brave ass adult.

Seriously. Um and poor Monica is just like sitting in the van alone. Well, and he said to CBS News, quote, "I had to take her hands from mine and rip and tear them apart, say it would be okay, and go with them and leave her. That was so hard."

Oh god. So, this 14-year-old like understands like I need to know why this is happening. Well, what happened was the kidnappers month months before the kidnapping had buried a moving van in a ditch in the California rock and gravel quarry.

Why? They had each child and Ed climbed down a ladder into this van that they had buried. In the van, they had put mattresses, water, peanut butter, bread, and cereal. Enough for one meal, not enough for anymore. Stocked on one side and holes cut into boxes for makeshift toilets. Uh, they put all 26 kids and Ed in this little moving van that was buried under the earth in a rock quarry. Then they took up the ladder and told them all, "We'll be back for you." And then just shut the top.

No. Yep. Before leaving, the kidnappers put a manhole cover on the entrance that they had put the kids in, like on top.

This is my absolute worst nightmare. Yeah. And then they put two truck batteries over that manhole so they couldn't move the cover. And then like you're just sitting there like are they gonna [ __ ] come back?

Yeah. And then they buried the top of the van. They were buried under like between 6 and 12 feet of of earth.

Nope. Yeah. And they could they said they could all hear dirt and gravel being thrown on top of the van. So they were literally

in my mind I would be like this is like this is how we're going to die. Oh, they all said that. They said we all sat there and we're like we are being buried alive. Like we're buried alive. And some of them were like, as soon as I got down there, I was like, "This is our coffin. This is our giant coffin that they're putting us in."

Why is this happening? Yeah, I'll get to it. I promise. Yeah. Uh, one survivor, Carjo Labender, was 10 at the time.

And she said, quote, "There were times we all thought we were dying. I promised God if I survived this, I would be the best little girl. I'd be the best little girl my whole entire life." Oh my god,

that part I got I just got like a little lump in my throat cuz thinking about this 10-year-old being like, I I won't ever do anything bad again. Like, please just get me out of here.

Uh they were in this hole for 12 hours together. Okay. They said it was awful. I mean, the bathrooms were literally holes cut in two boxes. There's 26 kids, right?

So, these are just holes filling up with everything. So the whole place is smelling of urine and feces and kids are vomiting because one they're in about a billion degree weather. They probably have heat stroke. They're also just hysterical. So of course so this whole place is filled with urine feces.

I'm never putting my children on a bus. Oh, I'm literally I never was anyways. Like I already told John I was like no they're never

I already told Ed. Yeah, I already told Ed. Uh they're never going on a bus. like my kids aren't going

because I don't I don't know any it's just not happening. I don't trust anybody. I know there are beautiful bus drivers like Ed. Many of most of them are wonderful amazing human.

I'm not trying to chance it. But I don't know you and I don't I Now that I know this story, I'm just like I think I'll drive my kid everywhere while they're wrapped in plastic wrap. I meant to say bubble wrap, not plastic wrap. That's [ __ ]

I'm just going to dexter up my kids and drive them places. It's It'll be awesome.

It'll be fine. And it's true. It's like you can't I don't trust anybody kids. It's awful. Um, so the kids were crying for their parents like Ed said there was a lot of crying for mama like which just destroys my heart.

Why are you doing this to me right now? Because there is a good Yeah. Can we get to it like like Michael the Brave the 14year-old I want to like he should legally change his name to that. Um he said that it would just be quiet, like dead silent in there all of a sudden and then one kid would start crying and the whole place would erupt into like screaming crying. It was just a [ __ ] nightmare.

Uh they all ate the food and then the f cuz again this was like you know they're going on what

almost 24 hours of over 24 hours of just insanity. Uh, so all the food was gone because it was only enough for one meal. And then they had put a ventilation like a makeshift ventilation system in there because they would have just suffocated right away,

right? And obviously these guys are looking to keep them alive for some period of time because they put

Does this all have to do with like ransom or something? Yes. Okay. And the ventilation system they put in were just fans that were like put into this thing and they the batteries all died. So, the ventilation system failed. So, now they're all literally like suffocation, heat stroke, just all of this. Um, and then the roof began to literally cave in under the weight. It was starting to bow in

and like they could hear the creaking like pieces of dirt were falling in. So, all the kids were like, "Oh, we're going to die here." After being literally buried alive. So, Jennifer, the survivor that I mentioned earlier, told CBS News that once this started happening, they were in full panic mode, thinking this is it. Then she says, quote, "We thought and they said, the older kids and Ed, if we're going to die, we're going to die trying to get out of here."

Yeah. So, this is when Ed and Michael and a couple of other of the other bigger boys took the mattresses, they stacked them all up under the hole that they were placed in, and they attempted to move the cover, but it wouldn't budge because it was, you know. So, Michael said the kids were all cheering him on. Like, they were all literally like, "Come on, Michael. You can do it, Michael." Like, it started turning into this like

I just got full body chills, right? I still get chills. um at last after like were I mean Ed and Michael and these other kids were move they were trying for they said like hours they were trying to get this thing

they got it they were sweating they're like dying of heat stroke and all of a sudden another kid looks and says it's moving I see it moving

oh my god I'm going to cry right now right so they were all able to collectively push the cover out of the way once it was moved there the um kidnappers had made a wooden box that was placed around the entrance so it didn't go directly into the earth. You know what I mean? Like there was a wooden box over the hole.

Okay. So, Michael, Ed had Michael squeeze through the hole to get into that box and try to see what they were working with outside of the box,

right? Um, so when he got up there, he realized that outside of the box was just earth. It was just dirt. So, he had to dig. So he and Ed ju he they just dug and dug and dug for another hour or so until they reached sunlight. And when they saw sunlight, all the kids are freaking out. The sunlight's pouring into the place. They're all like, "Holy [ __ ] we're going to get out of here." But then all of a sudden, all the kids are like, "One, where are we?" And two, what if they're waiting up there,

right? Cuz all of a sudden, they're like, "We don't [ __ ] know what they want. We don't know what's happening. We don't know if they've been sitting outside of this thing the whole time just watching us try to escape like we don't know.

But they were like what else do we have to get out of here? Yeah. So one by one they hoisted each other up out of the hole. Luckily the kidnappers were not outside there. Um the kidnappers where were they? Uh they were all taking a nap.

Where? Yeah. They were taking a nap at home. They had tried to call the police department to demand ransom of $5 million for these children's lives, but the lines were jammed because the kids' families and the media were calling non-stop. So they could

have like a trust fund. Yeah. So they couldn't get through to the police station to demand the ransom. So they were like, "You know what? We're real tired. Let's just go to sleep."

Oh my god. Let's take a [ __ ] nap while these kids die beneath the earth. We buried children alive and it was tiring work. Yeah, we buried children in a kindly old bus driver alive in the earth, but we are so much of a sociopath that we can lay our head down on the [ __ ] pillow and go to sleep.

What I need to know is how did three people this evil meet each other? I have no

How does the world bring that much evil together? That it it drives me nuts. And what but what kills me is while they're all [ __ ] sleeping, they're quote unquote victims are just pushing through just committing acts of badassery getting the [ __ ] out of that thing against all odds.

This is like a straightup movie. It really is. And it's like I love the the idea of them just snoozing away thinking they've buried these [ __ ] babies in the earth like and these babies and this older guy are like [ __ ] off. And I love that they were like, "We are not dying just sitting passively in here waiting for them. We are going to die getting out of here. We're going to die."

Like, "Yeah, babies." So once they escaped out of the hole, they saw a man in the rock quarry. He was apparently because it was this was a rock quarry, so it's a working place. People are working on machines and stuff.

And the man looks over and sees them all coming, 26 children coming out of the [ __ ] ground.

Well, you know what he says? He looks at them and he goes, "The world's been looking for you."

Right. Like, I'm glutening my damn world. Doesn't that just like When I read that, I was like, "Holy

Oh my god. I just had chills for five whole minutes. The world's been looking for you."

Oh, because the world had been looking for them. It was just these are I was waiting for you to be like He was going to say like the world is ending. Like this is Satan's undead army. Like that's what the what the [ __ ] I would think. You see all these kids climbing out of the earth.

Probably just covered in like all kinds of I'd be like this is Satan's work. Yeah,

this is the work of the devil. Something bad's a foot. And I would run run. But this man turns around and says the most movie worthy line I have ever heard and just world's been looking for you.

This whole [ __ ] is a movie. And they're like, "Yeah, can you bring me back to the civilization of the world?" told me they were more than a hundred miles from Chowilla. More than 100 miles they were driven away from where they were.

Um the police came obviously cuz the guy called That's what they do. Um and Ed led all these these and Ed had led all these kids out like to safety.

Oh my god. Ed did he get like the biggest heroism award? Oh yeah. Just wait. Heroism I said

heroism. Correct. Close. Uh, so the police had to take them the only place that was like safe for all of them to go, which was the local jail.

Oh god. They weren't put in like cells or anything. They were put in these things like these rooms. But I guess the kids when they pulled up, they were all like, "We're going to jail. Like why are we going to jail?" Uh, they were all photographed. They were checked by doctors. They had interviews.

You kept saying like the survivors and I was like, "Does somebody die?" No, that's why I didn't want to like give too much away. That's all I want to say. Uh, no, they were all relatively unharmed. There was some heat stroke. There was obviously shock and trauma,

but physically they were all relatively all right. Oh my god. I hope this kid when he gets caught, I hope his trust fund paid for their therapy.

Seriously. Well, they were all given soda and apples at the police station. Oh my god, stop it. That was so pure.

And then they were freed to go with their families, which all of them said like I think the guy um Larry Park I mentioned, he said that he literally just like went his mom picked him up in her arms and she and he said, "I just said, "Hi, mom." and put my head on her shoulder and fell asleep.

Cuz he cuz he was six. Like he was six. He's this little s. He's just like, "Hi, mom."

I just keep picturing your kids and that's all I kept picturing. Oh, I I I I don't even know what I would do.

No. To these people when they got caught, I I would go to jail. Oh, I would 100%.

I would just start ripping them apart with my teeth. I could not The thought of it is unfathomable. It really is like to articulate any kind of thought when it has to like putting myself in this situation and none are coming.

I would turn into a creature and just rip them to shreds. I would literally turn into my true form and I would just

I would call upon Satan after Satan's work and just be like, "Yo, sir, I need your help.

Give me the power. Give me the power." I would call upon the power of men. I was literally going to say that after you said whatever you said.

All the corners craft style. So, hit me up with how these [ __ ] get caught. So, unfortunately, none of the kids could say a lot about what they looked like because they were wearing panty hose over there. Except they look like the Easter Bunny. But a team went back to the quarry to search the buried van for clues. And they figured out that the only person who would have access via a key to this rock quarry was Fred Woods, who was the son of the owner of the rock quarry.

You [ __ ] straight up idiot. [ __ ] idiot. Thank god you're an idiot. Of course, he became the chief suspect. And once they put it together, the other pieces, they were led to the other two [ __ ] fools.

Um, Ed was also able to give one of their license plate numbers under hypnosis.

[ __ ] Yeah, they put him under hypnosis and he read aloud their license plate number.

I don't want to know what I would remember under hypnosis. So, here's here's Ed just helping even in like a subconscious state. Ed's just a big old help.

Ed. Ed. Ed. So he's a hero. Heroism. Two years before this kidnapping, Fred and his Fred Woods and his two friends, James and Richard Showenfeld, the three kidnappers.

Douchenfeld, they had been arrested for Grand Theft Auto. So they were already had arrest warrants on them.

You're rich. Why are you stealing things? That's what kills me. And that's what nobody truly understands about this. They were three rich [ __ ]

right? They're [ __ ] bored. Um, investigators served and executed a search warrant at Fred's father's mansion, and they found one of the guns used in the kidnapping, so they were able to tie him. They also found a literal document labeled plan

that detailed the entire thing along with a ransom note. Um, apparently they have been meticulously planning this for over a year.

I believe it. I mean, that was so Yeah, it was I hate to say I was going to say I hate to say well orchestrated, but

it was and I mean months before they were caught, this whole thing happened. That's when they started burying this van. So, they were already like getting this all together

to put that whole like place together and they and actually they were able to gather witnesses that said they had noticed people digging in there like months earlier, but they didn't know why. Uh, so Richard Shoenfeld was the one who turned himself in. And as we'll see, Richard seemed he's the youngest one of the kidnappers.

He seems to be the one that was along for the ride. And he shows the most remorse. Uh, he turned himself in.

So, he's somewhat of a human. He acknowledges that it's horrific and that like he's he acknowledges it. I'm not saying he's a good person. And I'm just saying he's the only one out of the three that seems to

have any truly have full remorse and and to truly grip what he did and what he did to these kids for the rest of their lives.

Yeah. I just like and what we'll see is later one of these kids actually like went and met him and like talked to him. Yeah.

Um so James and Fred left fled California. So Richard turned himself in immediately.

James and Fred fled California. Fred went to Vancouver and was caught by the Royal and Canadian Mountain Police

because they're awesome. Yeah, Royal Canadian Mounted Police. I want to be a Royal.

Uh the police put the police put the three of them in and James was also caught I think just like somewhere outside of California.

Uh they put the three of them in a video lineup and told them to say phrases that the kids said they used during the kidnapping.

Oh god. And the children were all able to identify them. They were like, "It was that [ __ ] that [ __ ] and that other [ __ ]

They literally had them say things like, "Shut up and sit down. Get to the back of the bus. Listen to what I say." Like all these things that the kids were like, "Yeah, they said all this." And then they had the kids come in and they all recognize them, which it's like

more badassery cuz it's like to be able to do that. Yeah. Uh all three plead guilty to 27 counts of kidnapping for ransom and robbery. They were all charged with eight counts of bodily harm as well, but they refused to plead to it because all of them said they that was going to carry a mandatory life sentence without the possibility of parole. So, none of them would plead guilty to it,

even though they were guilty as [ __ ] Well, the kids all testified at their trials right?

So, they were like badasses again. February 17th, 1978, all three were charged with mandatory life sentences without the possibility of parole. Because if you sat here and told me they got like 25 years, I would lose my noodle.

Well, unfortunately, what their lawyers appealed the charges of bodily harm because they say it said although traumatic, real bodily harm as definition by law did not occur.

Eat my shorts. So, like, are you [ __ ] kidding me? I Oh my god, this is what I just thought. How do you Oh, defense lawyers. How do like the defense lawyers

how you defend these guys of these people? How what? Oh, they should the How do you lay your head on the pillow?

The ones that defended these guys should be ashamed of themselves. How do you put your head on the pillow?

I don't know how you go to sleep at night defending someone like this when you know they're straight up guilty.

That and it's like bodily harm. I don't give a [ __ ] if physically they're all like together. They are ruined.

Your brain is in your body. Well, and as I read a ton about these kids later in adulthood,

how do you function? [ __ ] They were [ __ ] I mean, most of them had phobia well into life of like the dark claustia. Yeah.

They wouldn't let their kids humans alone. They all have kids. A lot of them have kids now and they won't let their kids anywhere. Like they're like, I am the most overprotective parent ever. And it's like affecting like

I'd be like, well, let me tell you about the time I was buried alive, child. Yeah. Well, and so these sentences were um gotten rid of and they were sentenced again to life with the possibility of parole.

Okay. I mean, I'm still pissed, but as long as it's life. Well, did they get let out on [ __ ] parole?

Richard, who was the one who turned himself in, the one I said seems to have the most remorse for it, he was granted parole in June 2012.

Why? 36 years after the crimes. Um, 3 years after that, his brother James was parrolled.

Are you [ __ ] kidding me? Fred is still in prison. Uh, Fred seems to be the ring leader.

Yeah. Uh, he was always labeled as the ring leader. And the sheriff actually at the time said that James and Richard were just two kind of like dumb asses that just like did stupid [ __ ] Fred, they said, was a true psychopath. Like he was a social.

I mean, clearly who [ __ ] devises this plan in their minds? He's still a piece of [ __ ] to this day. Like he's in his like 70s or something and he's still a piece of [ __ ] He breaks all kinds of rules in prison which is why he's not getting parole.

Good. Keep breaking those rules, Fred. Exactly. Cuz they always say an indicator of how you will be on the outside is if you can follow rules on the inside and he can't follow rules on the inside. He's still He constantly gets caught with like porn and cell phones in his cell.

He's trying to run his businesses from inside prison and he's like actually doing it.

What businesses? I guess he has businesses that are already in his name because he's a little rich [ __ ] and they just got put in his name. So, he's able to run some businesses from inside.

What is the point? You're not getting the [ __ ] money. It's the thing. He's still getting like richer in prison because I assume he thinks he's going to get out at some point cuz he's such a [ __ ] idiot. He's never going to get out.

Uh, so why did they do this? Why? Apparently, James and Fred were in debt from being dumb asses. there was

but you have a trust fund and but that trust fund wasn't going to kick in until he was like a certain age. So he couldn't have access to it yet. So he was like oh instead of working I'll just kidnap a bunch of kids.

And James and again I said like you know Richard just seems like he was the younger brother taking along for the ride. Uh James told the parole board in 2015 when he was parrolled, quote, "We needed multiple victims to get multiple millions and we picked children because children are precious. The state would be willing to pay ransom for them and they don't fight back. They're vulnerable and they will mind you."

That is the most [ __ ] up sentence ever said. And it's like I understand that they're saying like they parrolled the two of them because they showed remorse. They've been going to prison. They're G. And I guess that was the first time in 2015, that was the first time that any of the three of them had given any motive. They had no idea before this why they did this. And so, but what's bothering me is it's like, okay, so in 2015, this dude's standing before a parole board being like, this is why we did it, and it's the most [ __ ] up reason ever that children are vulnerable and precious and will mind you.

Also, can you let me know? Can you parole him? I'd be like, "What?" Like, I understand you're looking at it like he's telling you the truth and he's giving you the insight.

Yeah, but the truth is horrifying. But like, how do you know he doesn't still think this way,

right? Like I like maybe he doesn't. I'm I hope he doesn't. I do believe in rehabilitation.

Yeah. Not for everybody, but I do believe in rehabilitation. So, God, I'm hoping these guys did come out of here and be like, I was 24 years old. I was 22. That's not who I am. Like, holy [ __ ] But like that's scary to me.

That It's so crazy because I'm thinking of like my friends like I am 23 years old and I could I

can you imagine some like them thinking this way? No. Well, in Larry Park, the one I've mentioned a few times, the like six-year-old who was like, I fell asleep on my mom.

He met all three of these men and he forgave them. Wow. You That's the thing, though. It's almost like you would have to because if you don't, how do you go on with your life? I think that's what it was, too. He said he was like laying in bed one night and he was like he said he like looked up and was like, "God, help me forgive them.

Like, I'm never going to be able to move. I need to move past this." And so, Richard in particular has been cited as being, you know, the one that showed the most remorse. And there's a picture of Larry and Richard like smiling with each other.

So wild. It's so bizarre. But you look at it and you're like, "Holy shit." Like,

I think it must help too. Like it's it's like meeting a monster. It's like somebody taking their mask off.

Exact. Yeah. Like it it wasn't real. Like it was real but like but like they you you can shrink them down to size instead of them being this like larger than life thing because again he was they were all like you know 5 six seven 10

right? 12 all that. Like they were little and these men were these big scary monsters and in their mind they probably always been these big scary monsters. than to meet them as adults and be like, "Oh, you're just a little [ __ ] and I can look at you." Yeah. It's shrinking them down to like a size you can just flick them away at.

All right, keep going. So, the children after um after the whole like experience, the children were granted a trip to Disneyland with

Oh my god. Amazing. I got to go. And uh Ed, the California School Employees Association in Sacramento presented Ed with the associations association's citation for outstanding community service. Quote, particularly to 26 precious Chowilla school children. The award was given by the governor and he got many more heroism awards after that. And then five weeks after the kidnapping, the entire town of Chowilla created and celebrated Ed Ray and Children's Day.

Stop. With a huge celebration and parade where Ed and the kids were on floats. Stop it. Stop it right now.

This like video, there's like pictures of this and everything. It's I can't believe I've never heard of this case.

Me, too. It blew my like Thomas, thank you for bringing this. You would think that this should be a well-known case.

Yeah. Um, and then I just found out like the these kids did have tons of issues.

Of course they did. Uh, a woman named Dr. Lenor Terror, who is a San Francisco psychiatrist, actually wrote a book called Too Scared to Cry. Um, she wrote about their trauma in this book. And um, she said, quote, "In 1976, we didn't know much about childhood trauma, much less how to treat it. Despite their varied backgrounds, every Chowchilla kid I interviewed suffered from PTSD symptoms for years after the kidnapping and burial alive.

Oh yeah. Uh many of them were well into adulthood having to sleep with nightlights because the dark was just so much that like they were just traumatized by it.

They suffered from constant nightmares, phobias. Um a lot of them had substance abuse and legal issues for a little while, but most of them turned their [ __ ] around.

That's good. recognized what was happening and what this was coming from and they were able to turn it around and their stories are like amazing to read now. But a lot of them would say they still have these nightmares well where they will be buried alive or that like they're lined up and shot by these guys and stuff like they just have these awful nightmares. Um, and a lot of the parents of these kids said that when they first came back, it was years of them screaming in the middle of the night, running in their bedroom in the middle of the night, like thinking they were being chased.

For a little while, they didn't know who the kidnappers were. It took a little while to find those the time between then and when they were caught, they said, was unbearable.

It must have felt like years cuz they felt like they were going to come back and get them. Like,

also, I feel like if I was a parent, I'd be like, "No, you're not sleeping in your room tonight. Like, you're sleeping in my room forever." I was going to say I'm pretty sure I would ruin my kids even further cuz I would be like you're never leaving my site.

Yeah. No, I'd be like you're never you don't have a room anymore. We're sharing.

Yeah. And these poor these poor parents were just like the after this hugely traumatizing experience that they lived through now they're living through the trauma once again with their kids. It's like holy [ __ ] Um, Ed was hailed as a hero, like we said, like his whole life he was hailed as a hero. He deserves it.

But he was super humble and like would never acknowledge that, right? He knew it.

And like he's just adorable. His K his own kids said he just loved kids his whole life. Like they were like he was an amazing father.

He's amazing grandfather, an amazing great-grandfather. Stop it. Because he had great grandchildren. So, thank goodness Ed got to live to have great grandchildren. And they said he was just one of those guys who just kids were his world and he felt like he had a duty to protect kids.

Yeah. And he said about that day, he was like, "All I knew was that I had to protect these kids. I had to make them feel like everything was going to be okay cuz even if they were dying that day, he was like, I wanted them to to die thinking that everything was okay."

And he was like, "And I wanted to make sure these kids," his main goal, he was like, "We weren't dying that day. My main goal was to get these kids back to their parents.

And he did. And he did. He moved a manhole cover with two truck batteries on it.

And he kept his [ __ ] together throughout this whole thing. And like maintained I would not be able to sing songs. I would be balling my eyes out in a ball.

He'd be like, "Don't touch me. I'm terrified." And Ed lived to be 91 years old.

Oh my god, that's amazing. Which it's like, yes. Yes. Like I wanted that. I was like, "Don't tell me he lived to be like 70. Like, tell me he's got a long life." 91 years old. He passed away in May 2012. And according to an article in the New York Times, his entire life those children were by his side.

Oh my god. Yes. Uh they all maintained like best friendships with him. Like they all talked to him all the time. They visited him.

They said a lot of those children that he saved were there by his side when he passed away.

Oh my god. And they had visited him consistently through his entire life. Like they were with him throughout it all.

I love that. Uh family members said Ry collected newspaper clippings about the kidnapping, but like he wouldn't talk about it. He just like silently have this stuff. And he also bought the school bus from it for $500 because he said he didn't want it to go to scrap iron because he was like, I feel like this is an important thing.

Wow. Like we we survived. Like I want this to stay. Wow. Um, where did he put it?

His son said, quote, "He parked it in the barn and he'd go out and start it every once in a while." Um, he kept it for many years, but then he ended up giving it to an old equipment museum in Lrand where it's still there for public viewing today.

If I was him, I wouldn't want to go in it ever again. I give him a lot of credit.

Yes, he is. He goes in there and he starts it just to make sure it's like still working.

I wouldn't. And the van is there in the museum today in Lrand. And uh a lot of the kids came back after he passed away. And they wrote messages to him on the outside of the of the bus.

Wow. And you can look at it online. They all wrote like, "Ed, you'll always be my hero and stuff like that." Like,

oh my god. I know. It get I'm like choked up. Yeah. I just I got another that came came rocking him through.

But that's the the tale of the 1976 Chowchilla school bus kidnapping. Thank you, Thomas, for sending that to us. I can't believe I'd never heard of that case before.

I'm shocked. I'm ruined, but I can't believe I never heard of that case before.

Yeah, it's one of those that like you read it and you just think of all these what these kids went through, but then you're like, thank goodness.

I mean, from what I read, I didn't see any like stories of, you know, them really going down into like a dark place forever. Most of them were able to and and a lot of them say like I want people to know these kids

grew up to have wonderful lives. We didn't let these men take that from us. Some of them stumbled a bit obviously

cuz I couldn't imagine living through that. I probably would have most of them came out of it and were like, "Fuck that. I'm going to I'm going to forgive them. I'm gonna move past this. I'm gonna

just even forgiving them is Yeah. wild. And as far as um what I read, James and Richard have not been back to prison. and they've not been in trouble again.

I hope people heckle them like Lizzie Bordon. Oh yeah, I hope they get heckled with some [ __ ] nursery rhymes and [ __ ]

Uh Fred, I don't know if he'll ever get out of prison and I hope he [ __ ] rots in there because he sounds like a [ __ ] [ __ ]

He truly does. So yeah. So pointless. So point so pointless. That's the part that kills me the most.

Like I'm in debt. So pointless. Everybody's in debt. Who's not in debt? Yeah. That's like the whole debt. See, nobody's racing there.

No one in this room. Nobody. No one in this room wastes a hood. Nobody in this room racing.

Am I okay? Wow. Well, thanks for that. You're welcome. Can't wait to live my life now again.

Can't wait to hug my babies. I'm not bringing them to school with you anymore. I I I am

That's why I bring them. I will forever bring my kids to school. I renounce that.

I renounce that. I renounce them going to school. I resent that. So yeah, we hope you keep listening

and we hope you keep it weird, but not so weird that you go to the store and you buy some islands and you put them over your head and you're like, "Wow, I look like these so runny. I bet I should kidnap some kids because that's really [ __ ] up." And guess what? You already have a trust fund. So why don't you stop being a [ __ ] douche nozzle and just maybe wait until your trust fund hits and stop [ __ ] kidnapping people. And also, how [ __ ] up are you to dig the earth into the earth and put people in there and just like go [ __ ] yourself, Fred, Red, and poop? Those are your names. Bye. Those are your names.

Bye. That was a good one.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Episode 741: Episode Revisit: The Schoolbus Kidnapping of 1976"?

In order: 5:00 Chailla, California, Edward Ray; 10:00 Fred Woods, James Shoenfeld, Richard Shoenfeld, Santa Monica; 15:00 Larry Park; 20:00 Santa Monica, Carjo Labender; 30:00 Fred Woods, Larry Park; 35:00 Fred Woods, Richard Shoenfeld; 40:00 Larry Park; 45:00 California School Employees Association, Chowchilla, Dr. Lenor Terror, Ed Ray; 50:00 Chowchilla.

What is mentioned in this Morbid | Podcast episode?

15 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Fred, Fred Woods, Santa Monica, Larry Park, Richard Shoenfeld, Chowchilla. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Episode 741: Episode Revisit: The Schoolbus Kidnapping of 1976"?

The episode runs 54 min; the transcript is about 11,341 words in 287 timestamped sections.

More from Morbid | Podcast

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.