'Could I be next?’: NABJ president warns of ‘chilling effect’ on press freedom after Lemon’s arrest

What this episode is about

The National Association of Black Journalists president raises concerns about press freedom following the indictment of journalists Don Lemo and Georgia Fordave on federal civil rights charges related to their coverage of an ICE protest. The situation is viewed as an escalation of government actions against the media, potentially indicating a troubling trend in the treatment of journalists, particularly those from marginalized communities.

Key takeaways

• When the government rises against journalists, democracy hiccups; welcome to the theater of the absurd.
• Civil Rights Act used like a bad script? Irony doesn’t begin to cover this plot twist.
• Arresting journalists for journalism? That’s a fast track to authoritarian plotlines 101.
• If freedom of the press isn’t a right, then we need to recheck the Constitution's GPS.
• When journalism becomes a crime, you know we're one step closer to dystopian fiction becoming reality.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Don Lemon (Guest) · 3 min speaking
• Erin Haynes (Guest) · 3 min speaking
• John Brennan (Guest) · 2 min speaking
• Simone (Guest) · 1 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 3:00: Don Lemon, Civil Rights Act of 1960, Erin Haynes, John Brennan
2. 3:00 – 6:00: Don Lemon, First Amendment, John Brennan
3. 6:00 – 9:00: Don Lemon, First Amendment
4. 9:00 – 10:12: Don Lemon, First Amendment, Georgia Ford, National Association of Black Journalists

Notable quotes from "'Could I be next?’: NABJ president warns of ‘chilling effect’ on press freedom after Lemon’s arrest"

• New tonight, independent journalists Don Lemo and Georgia Fordave filed a joint motion to obtain the grand jury transcripts from the proceedings that led to their indictment on federal civil rights.

  about Don Lemon · at 0:01

• JOINING US NOW, EDITOR AT LARGE FOR THE 19TH, ERIN Haynes she's the current president of the national association of black journalists and an ms now political contributor…

  about National Association of Black Journalists · at 0:52

• THE LAWS IN THIS COUNTRY, THE CIVIL RIGHTS LAWS THAT WERE FOUGHT FOR TO INJECT SOME EQUITY.

  about Civil Rights Act of 1960 · at 1:55

• We cannot say enough that the First Amendment is not optional, right?

  about First Amendment · at 3:23

• It's a dictatorial regime that's trying to suppress the freedom of the press, which is one of the institutional pillars of a free and democratic society.

  about John Brennan · at 4:23

• Certainly I'm hearing from members who saw the arrests of Don Lemon in Georgia before and wondered, could I be next?

  about Erin Haynes · at 8:36

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Don Lemon — Person · Primary subject (journalist/defendant) discussed in segment · 7 mentions · first at 0:15
  Central figure in the story: an independent journalist indicted on federal civil-rights charges after covering an ICE protest; his arraignment, not-guilty plea, seized phone, and motion for grand-jury transcripts drive the discussion about press freedom and government overreach.
• Georgia Ford — Person · Co-subject (journalist/defendant) discussed in segment · 1 mention · first at 9:02
  Co-defendant and co-journalist with Don Lemon; repeatedly referenced as also being charged for newsgathering at a church during an ICE protest, used to illustrate chilling effects on journalists—especially Black journalists.
  Must be able to do their jobs safely and without fear THEIR JOBS AND NOT BEING ACCUSED OF PARTICIPATING IN A PROTEST WHICH IS CLEARLY NOT WHAT HE OR GEORGIA FORT WERE DOING.
• Erin Haynes — Person · Guest expert / commentator · 1 mention · first at 0:52
  Brought in as a journalism and press-freedom authority (Editor-at-Large at The 19th; NABJ president per transcript) to contextualize the indictments as an escalation and discuss precedent, chilling effects, and protections for journalists.
• John Brennan — Person · Guest expert / referenced national security voice · 2 mentions · first at 1:01
  Presented as a former CIA Director and national-security/intelligence expert to interpret the implications of prosecuting journalists, framing it as behavior aligned with authoritarian regimes and a threat to democratic institutions.

Companies & orgs

• National Association of Black Journalists — Company · Affiliation · 2 mentions · first at 0:56
  Represented by Erin Haynes, discussing the broader implications for Black journalists and press freedom.

Concepts & topics

• First Amendment — Concept · Key argument · 3 mentions · first at 3:16
  Central to the discussion about press freedom and the rights of journalists, particularly in the context of the charges against Don Lemon and Georgia Ford.
• Civil Rights Act of 1960 — Concept · Core topic · 1 mention · first at 1:45
  Discussed as being weaponized against journalists, highlighting concerns about the misuse of civil rights laws.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:01 New tonight, independent journalists Don Lemo and Georgia Fordave filed a joint motion to obtain the grand jury transcripts from the proceedings that led to their indictment on federal civil rights charges for covering that ICE protest, you guys remember that, at a St. Paul church service last month. This comes just hours after Lemon pleaded not guilty to those charges in court. MS Now has learned that Lemon's phone was seized during his arrest and is still in DHS custody more than two weeks later. Here's Don Lemon just after his arraignment.

0:31 People are finally realizing what this administration is all about. The process is the punishment with them. And like all of you here in Minnesota, the great people of MINNESOTA, I WILL NOT BE INTIMIDATED, I WILL NOT BACK DOWN, I WILL FIGHT THESE BASELESS CHARGES AND I WILL NOT BE SILENCED. JOINING US NOW, EDITOR AT LARGE FOR THE 19TH, ERIN Haynes she's the current president of the national association of black journalists and an ms now political contributor former cia director john brennan is back with us what disturbs me most about these proceedings to be very clear, this is an escalation.

1:10 The government arrested and detained two journalists two weeks ago. Those journalists were back in court today and those charges were not dropped. In fact, this case is moving forward. This is an escalation, America, in case we were wondering. I want everybody to under the stakes that have been raised. Okay? Are we in a constitutional crisis? I don't know. How many data points do you need? That being said, Erin, the thing that I am most, if I can rank my disturbances on this issue, what most disturbs me about this is that the Civil Rights Act, particularly the Civil Rights Act of 1960, it's being WEAPONIZED AGAINST TWO JOURNALISTS WHO ALSO HAPPEN TO BE BLACK, AND I DON'T THINK THAT'S AN ACCIDENT.

1:55 THE LAWS IN THIS COUNTRY, THE CIVIL RIGHTS LAWS THAT WERE FOUGHT FOR TO INJECT SOME EQUITY. into this experiment that is the American democracy are now being weaponized in a way in which I don't think in 1960, 1964, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS THOUGHT WERE POSSIBLE.

2:22 WELL, I THINK THAT. OR MAYBE THEY DID. YEAH, I WAS GOING TO I THINK BLACK JOURNALISTS HAVE OFTEN HAD TO DO THE WORK THAT IS PART OF THE WORK OF DEMOCRACY. YOU DO NOT HAVE A DEMOCRACY, THEY'RE TRYING TO DO THE WORK OF DEMOCRACY, OFTEN UNDER DURESS. WE KNOW THAT BLACK JOURNALISTS DID THAT DURING THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT. WE We know that there were black journalists that did that during Jim Crow. And so you see that there are black journalists and frankly, black journalists who disproportionately are covering things like protests, civil unrest, police WE'LL BE COVERING ELECTIONS THAT MAYBE WE'LL BE COVERING ELECTIONS THAT COULD BE CONTENTIOUS IN THIS COUNTRY.

3:07 BLACK JOURNALISTS ARE COVERING THOSE STORIES DAY IN AND YOU SEE DON LEMON COMING OUT OF THAT HEARING MAINTAINING THAT THE FIRST AMENDMENT PROTECTS WHAT HE WAS DOING. HE WAS COMMITTING JOURNALISM, NOT COMMITTING A CRIME. WE CANNOT SAY THAT enough. We cannot say enough that the First Amendment is not optional, right? And that all journalists, including Black journalists, must be able to do their jobs safely and without fear THEIR JOBS AND NOT BEING ACCUSED OF PARTICIPATING IN A PROTEST WHICH IS CLEARLY NOT WHAT HE OR GEORGIA FORT WERE DOING.

3:42 DIRECTOR BRENNAN, TO THE STAKES THAT BOTH ERIN AND SIMONE I WAS STRUCK BY THIS PART OF THE LEMONFORT MOTION THAT SAYS THE CHARGES THEY ARE FACING MAY ALIGN WITH THE BEHAVIOR OF AUTHORITARIAN REGIMES ALL AROUND THE WORLD. IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, WE DO NOT prosecute journalists for doing their job. That happens in Russia, China, Iran, and other authoritarian regimes. And yet the government sold this unconstitutional mess to the grand jury. Disclosure of the grand jury proceedings is necessary to ensure the government did not mislead or misinstruct it.

4:15 You're our national security intel expert. If you saw this happening in another country, what would it indicate to you? It's a dictatorial regime that's trying to suppress the freedom of the press, which is one of the institutional pillars of a free and democratic society. The video footage of Don Lennon at church belies the charges that are made against him. My goodness, if these actions are going to be taken against newspapers and journalists, media, the fourth estate, you know, it really does threaten our democratic society and system.

4:49 And, you know, we see individual prosecutors who are going after these types of charges. And they have to remember that they do have ethical responsibilities, as I'm sure you and others know, that although, you know, Donald Trump can pardon individuals for, you know, these outlandish acts. Disbarment is a real potential for some of these individuals, these lawyers who are pursuing these frivolous charges despite the fact of a lack of evidence. So, again, I think what Don Lemon is saying, you know, the process is the punishment.

5:21 Yes, what they're trying to do is to intimidate others and to try to make sure that other members of the press, the media are going to be intimidated and not go out and do their work. As you point out, in the civil rights movement, it was so critically important that we had journalists on scene taking those videos and taking the camera work that was going to be able to reveal exactly what was going GOING ON AND THE OPPRESSIVE NATURE OF THE GOVERNMENT ACTIONS. SO THIS IS SO CRITICAL, ESPECIALLY AT THIS TIME NOW, AS I'VE SAID, WHEN THERE'S SUCH CONTROVERSY AND TURBINENCE IN OUR COUNTRY, WE NEED THAT MEDIA, WE NEED THE press.

5:57 We needed to expose the overreach, the abuses, the malfeasance that's going on in many parts of our country. And they don't want those things to happen. We're talking about the intimidation, the process being the point. There is some sound from Ed Martin, the pardon attorney who was just removed as the head of the DOJ's weaponization group. He has his own issues that he's dealing with. But he said something last May that I think is really important for this conversation and tells you everything you need to know about this administration and the kinds of folks are going after them, what their actual intent is.

6:29 Let's just listen to this. There are some really bad actors, some people that did some really bad things to the American people, and if they can be charged, we'll charge them. But if they can't be charged, we will name them, and we will name them, and in a culture that respects shame, they should be people that are shamed, and that's a fact. That's the way things work, and so that's how I believe the job operates. Aaron Haynes, when someone shows you who they BELIEVE THEM THE FIRST TIME, RIGHT, MADAMAYA ANGELO SAID THAT.

7:05 AND I THINK IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT DOESN'T APPEAR THAT DONALD TRUMP CARES if these folks actually go to jail, if they actually broke the law, whether it's Don Lemon or whether it's Lisa Cook or whether it's anybody else that this administration has gone after. The process, making them MAKING THEM SPEND MONEY, MAKING THEM GET LAWYERS IN DONALD TRUMP'S EYE IS HOPEFULLY GETTING A MUG SHOT OUT OF SOME OF THESE FOLKS ESPECIALLY MAYBE DONALD THE MEN IN GEORGIA FORT SPECIFICALLY IS PART OF THE POINT, AND I WONDER AS PRESIDENT OF NABJ AND AS THE JOURNALIST WHO'S BEEN DOING THIS FOR SO LONG, HOW THAT CHANGES THE GAME.

7:49 for reporters trying to do their work and, in turn, changes the game for the American people? Absolutely. I mean, look, this is certainly we are seeing Don Lemon and Georgia 4 in the headlines. But Don was exactly right to point out that this is not just about him, right? I mean, so many journalists that cover protests are freelancers, they're independent reporters, they're local journalists whose names we may, you know, not necessarily be familiar with and as household names, they don't have the visibility, they don't have the platform, they don't have the resources that maybe some better named journalists do.

8:22 But the concern really is the precedent that this sets, right? Whether journalists broadly can safely document events without facing legal consequences, which we know can be very expensive and frankly, can create a chilling effect. Certainly I'm hearing from members who saw the arrests of Don Lemon in Georgia before and wondered, could I be next? You know, what protections do I have? Getting very familiar frankly with the First Amendment and what legal options they have and just reaffirming their right to commit journalism without being accused of committing a crime.

8:58 So look, Simone said that today was an escalation. What happened today is important because Don Lemon and Georgia Ford have pleaded not guilty and that means that this case is now going to move forward in the courts, but it does raise these larger issues that we have to keep talking about around press freedom. We saw that Don and Georgia were in their capacity as journalists at that church. They were documenting what was

9:34 a central part of our media ecosystem. It's certainly a growing part of NABJ's membership. And so the First Amendment protects journalism itself, right? It doesn't matter where that person works or whether they're at a major network or whether they're independent. What matters is the fact of reporting and we have to keep saying that.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "'Could I be next?’: NABJ president warns of ‘chilling effect’ on press freedom after Lemon’s arrest"?

Don Lemon (Guest), Erin Haynes (Guest), John Brennan (Guest), Simone (Guest).

What is "'Could I be next?’: NABJ president warns of ‘chilling effect’ on press freedom after Lemon’s arrest" about?

The National Association of Black Journalists president raises concerns about press freedom following the indictment of journalists Don Lemo and Georgia Fordave on federal civil rights charges related to their coverage of an ICE protest. The situation is viewed as an escalation of government actions against the media, potentially indicating a troubling trend in the treatment of journalists,…

What is mentioned in this MS NOW episode?

7 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Don Lemon, First Amendment, Georgia Ford, Erin Haynes, Civil Rights Act of 1960, National Association of Black Journalists. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "'Could I be next?’: NABJ president warns of ‘chilling effect’ on press freedom after Lemon’s arrest"?

The episode runs 10 min; the transcript is about 1,628 words in 17 timestamped sections.

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