‘I’ll believe it when I see it’: Minneapolis official skeptical of Trump admin’s ICE drawdown claim

What this episode is about

Minneapolis officials express skepticism regarding the Trump administration's claim of a drawdown in ICE operations, attributing potential success to grassroots community protests against immigration enforcement. Residents remain wary, doubting the administration's intentions and questioning the actual reduction of federal activity, reflecting a broader concern about the government's immigration practices.

Key takeaways

• Minnesotans stood firm against federal overreach, proving local activism can shake the status quo.
• Skepticism runs deep: promises from authorities ring hollow when actions don't match rhetoric.
• Bystander videos, not body cams, have become the true watchdog in police accountability.
• Dismissals with prejudice are extraordinary, highlighting the rare triumph of truth over institutional lies.
• Changing tactics does not equate to changing goals; vigilance remains essential in the face of policy shifts.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Elliot Payne (Guest) · 7 min speaking
• Liz Oyer (Guest) · 4 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 3:00: Minneapolis, Barack Obama, ICE, Elliot Payne
2. 3:00 – 6:00: Justice Department, Minneapolis
3. 6:00 – 9:00: Minneapolis, Liz Oyer, Justice Department, Elliot Payne
4. 9:00 – 12:00: Senator Ron Johnson, Mandy & Ralph Ellison

Notable quotes from "‘I’ll believe it when I see it’: Minneapolis official skeptical of Trump admin’s ICE drawdown claim"

• Anuncement it plans to end its immigration surge in minnesota a victory for the people of that state in general and minneapolis in particular state and local leaders gave…

  about Minneapolis · at 0:01

• Joining us now, Minneapolis City Council President Elliot Payne and Liz Oyer, former Justice Department pardon attorney and a former federal public defender.

  about Elliot Payne · at 1:42

• They still want to remove mass amounts of people from our country and so I think this is something that we're gonna have to continue to stand up against.

  about ICE · at 2:58

• And we saw in Minneapolis a case that was dismissed with prejudice by the Justice Department because bystander video contradicted what two ICE agents said under oath had happened.

  about Justice Department · at 5:19

• Or even the mayor of new york city do if minneapolis style tactics were unleashed on their cities there's not really a whole lot of legal recourse it's very limited what…

  about Liz Oyer · at 7:51

• With what the government was doing and expressed that in the opinions they were writing and that put a lot of pressure on DHS and the Justice Department to stop using these…

  about DHS · at 8:37

• And so it's laughable to think that some people out in the street with cameras and whistles is something that should necessitate murder and state violence.

  about Senator Ron Johnson · at 10:53

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Elliot Payne — Person · Main guest · 2 mentions · first at 1:44
  Appears as Minneapolis City Council President, assessing whether the ICE drawdown is real and describing on-the-ground impacts and potential legal recourse for the city.
• Liz Oyer — Person · Main guest · 3 mentions · first at 1:46
  Provides legal analysis as a former DOJ pardon attorney and former federal public defender, focusing on limits of large-scale legal recourse and the importance of repeated individual court challenges and video evidence.
• Barack Obama — Person · Referenced public figure · 3 mentions · first at 0:53
  Cited for comments praising Minnesotans’ organized opposition to the ICE operation and warning about 'rogue behavior' by federal agents; used to frame the segment’s moral/political argument.
  The rogue behavior of agents of the federal government we is deeply concerning and dangerous.
• Senator Ron Johnson — Person · Referenced official / antagonist in clip · 3 mentions · first at 9:30
  Shown in a heated Senate exchange accusing Minnesota officials/protesters of contributing to danger; his remarks prompt Payne’s rebuttal about constitutional rights and protest.
• Mandy & Ralph Ellison — Person · Referenced official · 1 mention · first at 9:25
  Referenced as Minnesota’s Attorney General testifying before the Senate; his exchange with Senator Ron Johnson is used to illustrate political conflict over protests and ICE tactics.
  Mr. Payne, you had a lot of your colleagues from Minnesota in D.C.

Companies & orgs

• ICE — Company · Business focus · 1 mention · first at 1:03
  Central entity in the discussion regarding immigration enforcement and its impact on Minneapolis.
• Justice Department — Company · Case study · 5 mentions · first at 1:46
  Mentioned in the context of legal actions and dismissals related to ICE operations in Minneapolis.
• DHS — Company · Case study · 1 mention · first at 8:41
  Mentioned in relation to the broader context of immigration enforcement and legal challenges.

Places & events

• Minneapolis — Place · Setting · 10 mentions · first at 0:06
  Primary location where the immigration surge and subsequent protests occurred, central to the discussion.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:01 anuncement it plans to end its immigration surge in minnesota a victory for the people of of that state in general and minneapolis in particular state and local leaders gave credit to the Minnesotans who took to the streets in opposition to the operation for the drawdown. But with this withdrawal come lingering questions and skepticism among Minnesotans still wary about the crackdown. That includes some of the folks MSNOW spoke with outside a facility in Minneapolis this weekend. I don't believe anything that they're saying.

0:35 I think if it really was happening, this entire lot would be empty. And you can tell coming in how packed all of it is wrapping around the building. The supposed news that there's going to be a drawdown or whatnot, still don't know how much I believe it. I don't think a lot of us believe it. In a new interview, President Barack Obama lauded Minnesotans for standing up to the quote unprecedented nature of the ice operation in their state. The rogue behavior of agents of the federal government we is is deeply concerning and and dangerous.

1:15 But we should take a moment to appreciate the extraordinary outpouring of organizing, community building decency, not just randomly but in a systematic, organized way. Citizens saying this is not the America we believe in, and we're going to fight back. Joining us now, Minneapolis City Council President Elliot Payne and Liz Oyer, former Justice Department pardon attorney and a former federal public defender. Thank you both very much for coming back to the We Can. Okay, President Payne, the administration says the drawdown is happening, that the agents are leaving.

2:00 One, do you believe it? And two, IS IT REALLY HAPPENING? WELL, I'LL BELIEVE IT WHEN I SEE IT. AND ONCE BEEN TWICE SHY HERE IN MINNEAPOLIS, TOM HOME'S VERY FIRST PRESS CONFERENCE, THEY TOOK OUT GREGORY BOVINO AND EVERYBODY WANTED TO CELEBRATE THEN, AND THEN LITERALLY THE NEXT MORNING THEY TRIED TO ENTER INTO THE ECUADORIAN CONSULATE. AND THEN EVEN IN THIS LAST ANNOUNCEMENT, AN HOUR, WITHIN AN HOUR, SOMEBODY WAS ABDUCTED IN MY WARD. THEY WERE TAKEN DOWN TO THE BUILDING AND THEN THEY DISCOVERED THIS PERSON HAS LIVED IN OUR COUNTRY FOR 20 YEARS, THEY HAVE LEGAL STATUS, AND HE HAD TO GET RELEASED.

2:40 SO I AGREE WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA THAT WE SHOULD TAKE A MOMENT TO RECOGNIZE WHAT WE'VE ACHIEVED HERE, BUT WE STILL NEED TO ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT THERE ARE FAMILIES CONTINUING TO BE SEPARATED. THEY'RE SHIFTING THEIR TACTICS FROM on this aggressive media circus, but they are not shifting their mission. They still want to remove mass amounts of people from our country and so I think this is something that we're gonna have to continue to stand up against. There's those tax tactics and the way they're operating isn't just happening in Minnesota, it's happening other way, other places in the country.

3:16 I want to play a shoot some dash cam video from an ICE or CBP officer in the shooting that happened in Chicago and talk about it on the other side. We're going to make contact when we're boxed And we are boxing. All right, let's go. All right, out of the car. Be advised, we've been struck, we've been struck.

3:47 There are a lot of questions about whether or not they were struck. And I think something that's very interesting is, you know, Congress and everyone wants them to be wearing body cameras. That's absolutely true. But often we don't find out the truth of this, of what's happening, because when they're talking, they know they have the body cameras on, right? So they're saying things sometimes. This is not me. This other, you know, law enforcement officials and former law enforcement officials who understand how folks operate and understand human behavior.

4:18 But the reason that we saw Renee Good or Alex Pretty Kid was because of other people recording their phones, not because of these body cameras. So even if there are body cameras, even if the the these ICE officers are given those things, it's not going to always tell the full TRUTH OF THE INTERACTIONS THEY'RE HAVING WITH THE UNITED, THE CITIZENS AND NONCITIZENS ALIKE IN THIS COUNTRY. THAT'S RIGHT. WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF TRUTH COME OUT BECAUSE OF BYSTANDER VIDEO THAT HAS BEEN TAKEN. THAT'S BEEN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT.

4:48 BODY body cameras do have the beneficial effect of sometimes causing officers to police themselves when they remember they're being recorded. Or sometimes you see other officers on the scene have a body camera on and that video ends up capturing something that the officer who's actually involved didn't necessarily realize was going to be on camera. We also see incidents where officers don't have body camera video because they claim they didn't turn it on or they forgot or something happened to the footage. So they're not totally reliable, but bystander video has proven really important.

5:19 And we saw in Minneapolis a case that was dismissed with prejudice by the Justice Department because bystander video contradicted what two ICE agents said under oath had happened. This officer claimed that he had been attacked with a broom and a shovel, and it turned out that was untrue. The officer actually shot one of the two people who ended up being criminally charged because he claimed it was self-defense, and that was not true. And body camera videos showed that━or rather, bystander videos showed that that was not true, which was an important revelation and to dismiss a case with prejudice, that really shows that the Justice Department was forced to admit that these officers were lying under oath because of the video that came away.

6:03 And with prejudice means that those charges cannot be filed again. Exactly. Dismissals with prejudice are incredibly rare. I mean, I've been a lawyer for over 20 years and I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a prosecutor move to dismiss a case with prejudice. It is a huge concession by the Justice Department that their case was based on false information and mr. pain I'm wondering if we can pivot to the financial impact that the surge has had on Minneapolis operation Metro Surge has reportedly cost the city $203 million in lost wages, small business revenue, hotel cancellations.

6:39 Now almost 80,000 people experiencing food insecurity and a 50 % reduction in mental health services. Is there any legal recourse that local officials can take to recoup some of this money? We're absolutely going to be pursuing legal recourse. I I mean, the impact has been profound. You can feel it every day. You can feel it in the businesses that have had to shut down. But even if we believe that they're leaving immediately, there's going to be a long tail of impact in our city of lost business revenue, of lost jobs, lost wages.

7:14 And it's going to take us quite some time to recover from that. Liz, I'm just wondering, because President of pain is there in Minneapolis, where, you know, as we've been talking about, maybe the drawdown is happening, maybe not. But the concern that what happened in Minneapolis is going to happen elsewhere what what legal recourse would another another city have i mean they've they've gone to los angeles chicago new orleans a bunch of other places but what happens what what could say the mayor of philadelphia do or even the mayor of new york city do if minneapolis style tactics were unleashed on their cities there's not really a whole lot of legal recourse

8:15 it's very limited what recourse can be had in court on a sort of a large scale but it is incredibly important to see these individual court challenges that are filed over and over again by people who are harmed by ICE we saw in Minneapolis that there were just so many of these challenges that they became overwhelming to the legal system the judges became very frustrated with what the government was doing and expressed that in the opinions they were writing and that put a lot of pressure on DHS and the Justice Department to stop using these tactics and to stop employing ICE officers who weren't being truthful about what happened because it puts their own credibility in jeopardy and it causes a situation where they're spending so much of their resources responding to these court challenges that it's paralyzing to their other operations like enforcing the fraud laws, for example, that they're supposedly investigating.

9:10 So it really comes down to individual court challenges much more so than large-scale litigation, I think. It's very difficult. Mr. Payne, you had a lot of your colleagues from Minnesota in D D.C. this week. We had two of them on the show. Also, your attorney general, Keith Ellison, was sitting in front of the Senate. I want to play for you his interaction with Senator Ron Johnson from Wisconsin. Is it any wonder they're at hair trigger alert? A tragedy was going to happen, and you encouraged it! And you ought to feel damn guilty about it.

9:49 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yeah, so sit there and smirk. Smirk. It's sick. It is despicable. Are you asking me for comment, Senator? Because everything you said was untrue. It was a nice theatrical performance, but it was all lies. Senator Hassan. It's not the first time that Republicans have or this administration have blamed the The lawmakers, the elected officials, the people on the ground protesting ICE and their tactics of Minnesota for what is happening to the people of most. So what's your response to what Ron Johnson just said?

10:37 Well, the only thing that we've encouraged our residents to do is to express their constitutional rights every single day. Protest is a constitutional right. Protest is a constitutional right. Observing is a constitutional right. Observing is a constitutional right. And it's on the government to actually respect our rights. And so it's laughable to think that some people out in the street with cameras and whistles is something that should necessitate murder and state violence. It's laughable, especially in the face of Donald Trump inciting January 6th and him having no accountability for his much more direct calls to violence.

11:20 We're doing calls to constitutional rights, and a party that doesn't hold their leader accountable for calls to violence. I just don't think it should have any word on the matter. And because you bring up January 6th, we should note that Ron Johnson was one of the leading election deniers in the upper chamber. But, Liz, before we are out of time,

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "‘I’ll believe it when I see it’: Minneapolis official skeptical of Trump admin’s ICE drawdown claim"?

Elliot Payne (Guest), Liz Oyer (Guest).

What is "‘I’ll believe it when I see it’: Minneapolis official skeptical of Trump admin’s ICE drawdown claim" about?

Minneapolis officials express skepticism regarding the Trump administration's claim of a drawdown in ICE operations, attributing potential success to grassroots community protests against immigration enforcement. Residents remain wary, doubting the administration's intentions and questioning the actual reduction of federal activity, reflecting a broader concern about the government's immigration…

What is mentioned in this MS NOW episode?

9 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including ICE, Minneapolis, Elliot Payne, Liz Oyer, Justice Department, Barack Obama. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "‘I’ll believe it when I see it’: Minneapolis official skeptical of Trump admin’s ICE drawdown claim"?

The episode runs 12 min; the transcript is about 1,789 words in 18 timestamped sections.

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