Tim Walz says Trump administration is “trying to twist reality” in Minnesota | NPR

What this episode is about

Minnesota Governor Tim Walz discusses the ongoing intensified federal ice crackdown, known as Operation Metro Surge, highlighting concerns about the deployment of aggressive, untrained personnel and the public's skepticism regarding changes following recent violent incidents, including a murder that garnered national attention. He emphasizes the need for a constructive path forward amidst the tension and discontent in the community.

Key takeaways

• Minnesota's Operation Metro Surge: Less smoke, but the fire of skepticism burns brighter among citizens.
• When it comes to mass deportations, it's chaos versus community; fear tactics don’t target the 'worst of the worst.'
• Presidential indecision leaves leaders like Governor Walz rallying around community values instead of federal promises.
• In the battle for justice, labeling citizens as 'collateral' won’t extinguish their stories; it's time to shift the narrative.
• Minnesota's democracy thrives on protest; First Amendment rights can't be negotiated like a political chess game.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Tim Walz (Guest) · 18 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 3:00: Governor Tim Walls, Operation Metro Surge, Tom Holman, Renee Mlin Good
2. 3:00 – 6:00: Alex Prety, First Amendment, Renee Mlin Good, Tom Holman
3. 6:00 – 9:00: First Amendment
4. 9:00 – 12:00: Ilan Omar, Melissa Hortman
5. 12:00 – 15:00: Senator Ron Johnson, Governor Tim Walls, Renee Mlin Good, Bob Dylan
6. 15:00 – 18:00: Mayo Clinic
7. 18:00 – 19:41: Governor Tim Walls

Notable quotes from "Tim Walz says Trump administration is “trying to twist reality” in Minnesota | NPR"

• I just want to start big picture for people who are not in Minnesota as you and I are. What is the status of Operation Metro Surge in your state right now? And does that align…

  about Operation Metro Surge · at 0:15

• Movement and I've been very clear draw these forces down do an independent investigation and quit weaponizing the department of justice against people like Renee Good's wife.

  about Renee Mlin Good · at 2:22

• Worst of the worst, they might be the best of the best. I want to ask you about Renee Mlin good and Alex Prey, the two US citizens who were killed here in Minnesota. Have you had the opportunity to speak to either of their families?

  about Alex Prety · at 3:44

• I'm not going to compromise on the first amendment. I'm not going to allow Tom Holman to characterize what are constitutionally protected rights of peaceful expression of grievance.

  about First Amendment · at 5:30

• Not lost on me that you and I are having this conversation in a state where we saw State Representative Melissa Hortman, another Democratic lawmaker, Melissa Hortman was killed. What happened with Ilhan Omar, Congresswoman this week?

  about Melissa Hortman · at 9:36

• Yesterday on All Things Considered, my colleague spoke with Wisconsin Republican Senator Ron Johnson and he invoked you. So, I'd like to ask you about something that he said speaking.

  about Senator Ron Johnson · at 13:42

• But CO was a killer of us all. Now this is being inflicted upon us. It is really challenging. I spoke to folks at the Mayo Clinic yesterday about getting in one of the most…

  about Mayo Clinic · at 16:38

• Minnesota Governor Tim Walls, thank you so much for sitting down with us.

  about Governor Tim Walls · at 19:25

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Governor Tim Walls — Person · Main guest · 4 mentions · first at 0:09
  Interview subject discussing federal immigration enforcement actions in Minnesota, the deaths of Renee Mlin Good and Alex Prey, and his response to federal officials and critics.
• Renee Mlin Good — Person · Victim referenced / focal case · 3 mentions · first at 2:30
  One of two U.S. citizens whose killing is described as a catalyst for attention and escalation concerns; referenced in context of alleged DOJ weaponization and public slander.
• Alex Prety — Person · Victim referenced / focal case · 2 mentions · first at 3:46
  Second U.S. citizen killed; the interview repeatedly references video evidence, alleged slander, and the family’s request to focus on his life rather than only his death.
• Tom Holman — Person · Referenced federal official / antagonist in discussion · 3 mentions · first at 1:20
  Cited as using militarized language about deployments and seeking cooperation; the governor rejects framing of protests as interference and says he communicated directly with him.
  Way forward with this and can only do that factually with them. but we need some type of action and I was very clear with both the president and Tom Holman that the window of…
• Senator Ron Johnson — Person · Referenced critic / quoted political opponent · 2 mentions · first at 13:46
  Wisconsin senator quoted blaming resistance by leaders like Governor Walls for the deaths; Walls directly rebuts and insults him, making Johnson a key counter-voice in the segment.
• Michael and Susan — Person · Referenced family members (grouped entity) · 1 mention · first at 4:26
  Identified as Alex Prey’s parents; their quote frames a key narrative theme: telling how Alex lived, not only how he died.
  And it's that's the part that I especially said this with Michael and Susan, Alex's parents. They said, Look, the world knows how he died. You need to tell how they live. So, I've been spending time with their his co-workers.
• Melissa Hortman — Person · Referenced victim / political violence context · 1 mention · first at 9:39
  Cited as a killed Democratic state representative to contextualize heightened political violence and rhetoric in Minnesota.
• Ilan Omar — Person · Referenced public official / related incident · 1 mention · first at 9:44
  Mentioned as a congresswoman involved in a recent incident that the host uses to ask about lowering rhetorical temperature and political violence.
  Though on the political environment, the rhetoric that we're seeing lately. It is not lost on me that you and I are having this conversation in a state where we saw State…
• Bob Dylan — Person · Cultural reference · 1 mention · first at 12:42
  Invoked as part of a list of Minnesota cultural identifiers to describe the state’s civic character and tradition.
  3,000 plus folks here. I also think what you're seeing is that each stake is unique and I think Minnesota may be known for our lakes, Bob, Dylan, Prince, but there is a civic…

Companies & orgs

• Mayo Clinic — Company · Referenced organization · 1 mention · first at 16:45
  Mentioned in the context of providing healthcare amidst fears of ICE encounters

Concepts & topics

• Operation Metro Surge — Concept · Core topic · 2 mentions · first at 0:22
  Central theme of the episode, discussing the status and impact of the operation in Minnesota
• First Amendment — Concept · Key argument · 2 mentions · first at 5:30
  Discussed as a foundational right being protected in the face of federal actions

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Is a deescalation of the deadly ice crackdown here in Minnesota actually on the way? To talk about where things are and where they might be headed, I'm joined by Minnesota's Democratic Governor Tim Walls.

0:12 Thank you for having us. Yeah, thanks for being out here. I just want to start big picture for people who are not in Minnesota as you and I are. What is the status of Operation Metro Surge in your state right now? And does that align with what you have been hearing from the president, administration officials that you have been speaking with in recent days?

0:32 Yeah, and we're grateful you're out here. And for the folks that are listening, look, this been going on for about 8 weeks now, and it's intensified over the the last month. And of course with Renee and Alex's murder, the the attention came to it. Uh we've got 3,000 plus by their own admission of very untrained, very aggressive folks on the ground. And um the world witnessed what's been happening. Um, I would say since my conversation on Monday with the president, um, as what I I think the world knows them trying to do damage control over a horrific event on the streets with Alex's murder. I, uh, I don't think there's been a lot of change. There's less smoke on the ground. Um, but I have no indication that the numbers have come down. Uh, I will say I'm concerned over the last day or so the developments. Um, it's not helpful when Tom Holman talks about deployments and he referred to the state

1:26 of Minnesota as a theater. That's words that are used in in in wars and and in deployments to foreign countries.

1:36 Um, and again, the last night when the president was asked if he was drawing down, he said no. Um,

1:42 I tr I I believe it. I believe that part about what he said. So as far as it goes is there it it feels like there is a pause but the tension amongst people here and the skepticism amongst people here is high and I have reiterated time and time again that we want to find a way forward with this and can only do that factually with them. Um but we need some type of action and I was very clear with both the president and Tom Holman that the window of opportunity here to bring down um the understandable passions of motans was to show some movement and I've been very clear draw these forces down do an independent investigation and quit weaponizing the department of justice against people like Renee Good's wife.

2:31 Let me ask you this. This is a president, an administration that is constantly changing its mind and its message. Earlier this week, you heard the president say he wanted to deescalate a little and as you point out, you just heard the president say, you know, no pull back. How do you lead your state to lead the people here in Minnesota when you don't know what's coming next? You don't know what direction they're going to turn.

2:52 Yeah. Well, I think you stay grounded in our values. We stay grounded in um caring for our neighbors. We stay grounded in that justice matters. We stay grounded in uh staying peaceful in in the face of this and grounded in encouraging people to continue to take pictures dictate what was here and and I said it and I don't even think the president himself would disagree with this. Uh they have not changed their goal of mass deportations. um they may try and change their tactics a little bit, but it doesn't change the underlying uh mission here, which is to cause great fear and chaos in communities. Um and and to be very honest, very ineffective in actually targeting what they say is the worst of the worst. I'm pretty sure Liam, our little 5-year-old, isn't the worst of the worst. And as the world has found out,

3:43 uh not only are Renee and Alex not the worst of the worst, they might be the best of the best. I want to ask you about Renee Mlin good and Alex Prey, the two US citizens who were killed here in Minnesota. Have you had the opportunity to speak to either of their families?

3:54 Yes. Yes. What was your message to multiple times? Well, obviously the deep sense of sadness and sympathy, but a commitment to hear from both of them is the desire to find justice. Um, and I again I I can't stress enough the most powerful people in the world literally within minutes and continue to do so continue to slander these people, continue to say lies, continue to go on news media and and totally try and discredit the character of these people. And it's uh that's the part that I especially said this with with Michael and Susan, Alex's parents. They said, "Look, the world knows how he died. You need to tell how they live." So, I've been spending time with their his co-workers

4:36 and and trying to get that out. It is again it the challenge here is is that we have to try and find a way forward with these people. But I know who I'm dealing with. I know that they're not going to keep their word. I know they're and and to try and tell motans what has to go what we have to do going forward to get them out of here. And I think what you've seen is what has always been true. Uh the final line of defense for the democracy is the people. And I want to ask you about that because we heard borders are Tom Hman who is here in your state. He spoke and he seemed to suggest that he wanted to see cooperation from you and other local leaders and one of the things that he suggested he wanted to see as a reduction in interference from protesters and activists on the ground here in the Twin Cities. We're speaking I just want to note on a day when there's a general strike here in Minnesota across the country. Are there

5:24 any agreements on demonstrations that you're willing to make? I'm not going to compromise on the first amendment. I'm not going to allow Tom Holman to characterize what are constitutionally protected rights of peaceful expression of uh grievance against the government. It's foundational to our democracy. They are trying to twist reality here with peaceful protest. They tried to do it with Alex and they will go back, you know, they will dig up your kindergarten yearbook or whatever to try and discredit you. But they need to be very clear on this. motans and I are not going to give an inch on the protection of uh first amendment and constitutionally protected rights and we're not going to give an inch being witnessed to what we're seeing on the streets. I look I think there's really little debate in this had there been no video of that Alex and Renee would both be deemed terrorists. Their families would

6:19 probably be detained by now and they would continue to spout these lies. There's Christy Nome continues to go on and try and defend. Now, I will give her this. She maybe have a lawyer or something. Now, I don't know. She's saying she's just taking marching orders. I remind everyone that's no defense. That's no defense in carrying out what they've done. So, um, look, I'm I don't know what to say about this that we are going to peacefully express our constitutional rights. We are going to continue to stand up for people who are uh witnessing what's happening here. and we're going to continue to pursue justice. And what I've asked for uh numerous times is we being the state of Minnesota and our professionals need to be part of the investigation and of course the final adjudication of justice on those involved with these these and other incidents that are happening.

7:09 I'll note that the administration has not only faulted protesters and observers. Attorney General Pan Bondi wrote a letter last week and she criticized you personally for calling federal law enforcement, and I'm quoting here, Trump's modern-day Gestapo. How do you respond to her accusation that your rhetoric and remarks from other state officials aren't doing enough in her words? These are her words to support the men and women who are risking their lives to protect Americans and uphold the rule of law.

7:35 Well, I've never said anything other than to be peacefully protesting. And I'll stand by my words. I have to use the English language to describe what I'm seeing. And in America, there are very little uh analogist descriptions I can give to what we're seeing. So, I'm using what I have in my vocabulary to describe what I see. And and I think everybody who woke up Saturday morning and witnessed that um probably would come up to the same conclusion. Look, the attorney general is not a serious person. And then I think we saw through this and they said the quiet part out loud. Uh earlier this week I received a letter from the attorney general that basically said uh we'll take the boot off your state the neck of your state if you give us your voter roles. Um apparently in Georgia they tried a different tactic to get those voter roles. Um and that's what we expect. So um I understand my job is to I I need to

8:30 and again dealing with what would be a normal world. My job is to approach this uh measured to be a statesman. Um but I'm not naive. That's not who I'm dealing with. That is not who these folks are. So I would expect Pam Bondi to just as they done with everybody else. Mir Jerome Powell Mark Kelly the the widow of a woman who was killed on the streets. Um that's who they are. So uh to America, I would just say uh I'm going to continue to speak up. I'm going to continue to express uh my anger and disgust and my expectations that Pam Bondi be an independent voice for justice and not take their margin. Look, the president telegraphed what was happening here. This was about retribution.

9:19 Um and that means retribution to the people of Minnesota. It's retribution to the way we do things. And I think many people here in Minnesota knows this. They cannot stand that this state honors immigration. I do want to push you though on the political environment, the rhetoric that we're seeing lately. It is not lost on me that you and I are having this conversation in a state where we saw State Representative Melissa Hortman, another Democratic lawmaker, Melissa Hortman was killed. What happened with Ilhan Omar, Congresswoman this week?

9:48 Do you feel at all that you have a responsibility to help bring the temperature of the rhetoric that we're hearing and seeing?

9:53 Yes. That's why I talk about peacefulness all the time. That's why I talk do uh make sure that we're staying within the bounds of the law. Um I'm not going to say, "Gee, you guys should just be a little softer here when you push someone to the ground and put a gun near their head." Um I'm going to find the words that express the outrage that I'm feeling. Uh yes, I think about it. And I got to be candid with you. Um I'm probably doing a pretty good job of not speaking what's truly on my heart about these people to try and find that. And that is part of politics. That is part of how you get things done. But in this moment, this has this has transcended politics to be a fundamental moral issue. So if you're asking me, am I going to compromise with authoritarianism? Nope. Am I going to compromise on an erosion of civil liberties? Nope. Um, should I be a little more judicious in how I use those

10:48 terms? Sure. I I I try and when I get that wrong, I'll back it off. Um but at this point in time, I' I'd challenge someone to show me that the way this force has acted out here and the language that they've used, um I I still think maybe I don't know if you have other words I can use, I'll use those. But it is going to be an expression of outrage, an expression of this is not normal, an expression of the country needs to recognize that they are only starting and they will bring this wherever they can. And I'm just incredibly proud of motans that in the face of a uh a federal government uh retribution campaign against a state that has never been seen before, we responded with peaceful protests, boycots, delivering food to our neighbors, and a commitment to a civil society that works for all of us. So, I'll I'll continue to work on it. that um after everything that's happened to our state, my people, and this country,

11:47 um me using a historical reference to these folks ranks pretty far on down the line. So, I I'm going to go ahead and reject that both sides are responsible for this. Um there's one clear side that's doing this.

11:59 What do you think it is that's different about this state? I mean, the Trump administration is conducting federal immigration enforcement actions in many states and cities across this country. And yet, here in Minnesota, things have looked very different. There seems to be a unique flash point. We've seen people, as you point out, peacefully protesting in the streets. Obviously, the tragic killings of Renee Mlin good and Alex Prey. What is different about what's happening here? Well, the scope of what they're doing to us is is much greater.

12:27 Where you had 400 or so agents in Chicago, and I'm very proud of people of Illinois and Governor Pritsker for the way they responded. Same with LA, this is a much smaller city and they have 3,000 plus folks here. Uh I also think what you're seeing is is that each stake is unique and I think Minnesota may be known for our lakes, Bob, Dylan, Prince, but there is a civic character here that runs deeper. We vote at higher rates than anybody else. our business community and philanthropy is actively engaged. You see our sports teams being willing to speak up and I think it's it's a long tradition and I I do think it's historically on this. We have a very uh you know Scandinavian approach to this. We are very much a state that has progressive values which means we feed our kids, you make your own healthcare decisions, we'll protect our LGBT uh neighbors. Uh we have the most progressive tax system in the country.

13:19 And I think what it is is two things. I think we're the antithesis of everything that this mega movement stands for, the selfishness and the the the lack of compassion. Um I I think that I think that matters and I think the real reason was is I I watched the president. I kind of know when he's doing this. He lost Minnesota three times and I think that's foundationally what this is about.

13:42 Yesterday on All Things Considered, my colleague spoke with Wisconsin Republican Senator Ron Johnson and he invoked you. So, I'd like to ask you about something that he said speaking about the situation here in Minnesota. And I'm just going to read it because I want to make sure I get it correct. He said, "There are people that need to be apprehended because they're criminals, murderers, rapists, sex, human, and drug traffickers that need to be apprehended and either jailed or deported." And that right now is what the sanctuary cities and people like Mayor Fry and Governor Walls are resisting and that have led to the tragedy. He goes on to say, "Had there not been an organized effort to resist those law enforcement actions, those two individuals in Minneapolis would still be alive." End quote.

14:23 Governor Walls, how would you respond to that? Well, that's false. And I I do have history of knowing this. Uh Senator Johnson is a fool. Um he he's wrong. Minnesota is not a sanctuary state. I think it's been proven with our journalists here. and I think surprised the president whether it's detainers out of our prisons or the ability to work together. Uh the lies Minnesota is a bottom 10 state for violent crime. Um much of the things we do work. Um you've got a United States senator that once again does did he not watch the videos?

14:55 Did did he not see what happened there? Did he not see that the the retribution in their own name that's coming down on Minnesota? And um I'm just incredibly proud that motans are not going to stand back and take the boot to their neck. They're not going to stand back and capitulate on their responsibilities. And I'm pretty sure that Senator Johnson's been on the wrong side of history on every single vote he's taken. So uh I will say this, the folks of Wisconsin, uh we have deep affinity with um I can tell folks and tell this administration if they try the same thing in Wisconsin, they'll get very similar results they're getting in Minnesota cuz we're a proud people.

15:30 whether it be uh where co-ops were founded or where the labor movement fought back against oppression were there. So I don't really put much talk into Senator Johnson and uh again calling for things that are factually incorrect and a state that is 28th in the number of undocumented folks. The worst of the worst, which I'll say again is it's interesting that they're not putting those things out. And he's really really interested in um which we are working together on sex trafficking. the Epstein files would be a good start.

16:01 Got two more things to ask you about and one of them is this. There are reports in your state that people in the Twin Cities, some people who feel vulnerable, who feel scared, they're avoiding going to the doctor, they're avoiding getting life-saving medical care because of their fear of ICE encounters. Briefly, Governor, what can you do to make sure that people are not missing out on that care because they are fearful of what is going on on the streets here?

16:24 Yeah. Oh, 100% this is happening. Schools, everything else, people missing work. We're deeply concerned and we're exploring the idea of a uh eviction moratorum. It has disrupted life on a scale that is not seen. This is the impact that we're feeling feels like CO but CO was a killer of us all. Now this is being inflicted upon us. It is um

16:45 it is really challenging. I spoke to folks at the Mayo Clinic yesterday about getting in one of the most diverse

16:50 workforces you'll find and the people going there. Uh we've got folks trying to like around our schools um that parents are coming out to escort children to and from to make sure their parents don't have to come do it. Um they're going to our schools, the worst of the worst. Why Why do you have ICE agents? Why do you have these ICE agents masked up, kitted out like they're in Afghanistan fighting the Taliban, going to schools to try and get people? Um so what we're doing is is that we're protecting our own. And be clear, this is the type of thing that the administration characterizes as interference with federal authorities.

17:26 Uh someone volunteering to escort someone to the doctor is not interfering. Um and in Minnesota,

17:33 uh we're going to provide you healthcare and we're going to provide you food and we're going to try and provide you uh housing

17:39 and your documentation status is something of people who are working through the system. We all agree we need border security. We all agree we should get the worst of the worst out. No one in America believes that's what this is about.

17:50 Last thing, Governor, I know we're tight on time, but I do have to ask. You are not seeking re-election. What's next for you? How will you continue to lead in the state?

17:57 Yeah. Well, I think now it's I'm I'm in the moment and and I need to get our state work together to get our state through this. Work with those grasstop leaders that are out there. um continue to lift up what a great state this is because we are being attacked for the successes that we have and then make sure that that I do all I can and I would go back to your first question about rhetoric and it does matter to me about how do we heal and bring people back and I'll say there's glimpses we've had a couple only a couple and they're not in leadership here but we've had a couple elected Republicans express how wrong this is and I'm grateful to them on the national scale I think whether it's Senator uh Ran Paul, whether it's Tom Tillis, people that I worked with when I was in Congress and respected.

18:42 I really think I can't stress enough on this and I would ask the Senate to hold firm, don't give the money until you get changes at DHS or

18:50 talking about Homeland Security funding measures. Continue to work on getting the changes in that. But I I can't stress enough that a couple maybe a dozen Republicans spread out in the right positions in federal government could end this thing. they they could end this and we could come back and Minnesota cooperates. We want to have good immigration policies, but we are not going to send armed troops to pull someone out of a daycare who's going through the nationalization process with no criminal history. That makes no sense. It's a waste of resources and it's not our job.

19:25 Minnesota Governor Tim Walls, thank you so much for sitting down with us. Thank you for telling the story.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Tim Walz says Trump administration is “trying to twist reality” in Minnesota | NPR"?

Tim Walz (Guest).

What is "Tim Walz says Trump administration is “trying to twist reality” in Minnesota | NPR" about?

Minnesota Governor Tim Walz discusses the ongoing intensified federal ice crackdown, known as Operation Metro Surge, highlighting concerns about the deployment of aggressive, untrained personnel and the public's skepticism regarding changes following recent violent incidents, including a murder that garnered national attention. He emphasizes the need for a constructive path forward amidst the…

What is mentioned in this NPR episode?

12 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Governor Tim Walls, Operation Metro Surge, Renee Mlin Good, Alex Prety, First Amendment, Tom Holman. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Tim Walz says Trump administration is “trying to twist reality” in Minnesota | NPR"?

The episode runs 20 min; the transcript is about 3,798 words in 40 timestamped sections.

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