‘Terrifying Things...’ Graham Hancock On Pyramids and Ark of The Covenant

What this episode is about

Graham Hancock discusses his research on the Ark of the Covenant and ancient civilizations, sharing his theories about its origins and significance, as well as the enigmatic qualities described in biblical texts. He confronts skepticism about his views, expressing appreciation for open dialogue while highlighting the tension between alternative history and mainstream academia.

Key takeaways

• The Ark of the Covenant: more than a box, it's a case study in fear and reverence.
• Hancock's theories thrive on the skepticism of absolute truths, pushing us to rethink history's narrative.
• Archaeology: where limited evidence meets unlimited interpretation—welcome to the scientific gray area.
• Critics demand testable hypotheses while ignoring history thrives on conjecture and heretical ideas.
• Revisiting ancient knowledge challenges conventional history—perhaps the past holds secrets better left undiscovered.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Piers Morgan (Host) · 25 min speaking
• Graham Hancock (Guest) · 25 min speaking
• Bianca Noel (Guest) · 3 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Graeme Hancock, Piers Morgan, Mind War, History Uncensored
2. 5:00 – 10:00: Zahi Hawas, Robbie Williams
3. 10:00 – 15:00: Giza Plateau, Attorney General Pam Bondi, Egypt, Kurada Malanga
4. 15:00 – 20:00: ExpressVPN, Giza Plateau, Oxford Natural, Osiris Shaft
5. 20:00 – 25:00: Egypt, Colonel Howard Vice, Denuyu, Sledgehammers
6. 25:00 – 30:00: Mind War, Homo Erectus, Graeme Hancock, Philistines
7. 30:00 – 35:00: Ethiopia, Al Capone, Canaanite
8. 35:00 – 40:00: Mesopotamia, Sumer
9. 40:00 – 45:00: Piers Morgan, History Uncensored, Alchemist
10. 45:00 – 50:00: Piers Morgan, History Uncensored, Alchemist
11. 50:00 – 50:45: Piers Morgan

Notable quotes from "‘Terrifying Things...’ Graham Hancock On Pyramids and Ark of The Covenant"

• This time last year, I interviewed for the first time a documentarian Graeme Hancock, whose uncensored theories on ancient civilizations have made him a superstar in the world of alternative history, but maybe a pariah in.

  about Graeme Hancock · at 0:52

• I think we need some sympathy and some respect for Zahi Hawas. Zahi has devoted his life to the study of the pyramids. He is a world expert on the pyramids. He's passionate…

  about Zahi Hawas · at 9:30

• Of a colossal underground complex plunging nearly three and a half thousand feet beneath Egypt's Giza plateau. And just this month well I think it was just this month Filippo…

  about Egypt · at 10:38

• There has been drilling around the Great Sphinx supposedly looking for groundwater beneath the Great Sphinx.

  about Great Sphinx · at 13:54

• Pyramid, the subterranean chamber is 100 ft vertically beneath the base of the Great Pyramid. I think we're only scratching the surface of what's underneath the Giza Plateau.

  about Giza Plateau · at 18:32

• Using fire before that. There's a there's an ancestor with the rather awkward name of Homo Erectus. and Homo Erectus was quite an interesting character. His brain size was brain size was about half of ours.

  about Homo Erectus · at 26:00

• Claims to be the last resting place of the lost ark of the company in Axom in Ethiopia in the church of St.

  about Ethiopia · at 30:26

• Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan.

  about Piers Morgan · at 50:13

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Piers Morgan — Person · Host / interviewer · 5 mentions · first at 1:09
  He conducts the interview, frames the controversies around Hancock, and introduces the History Uncensored channel preview.
• Graeme Hancock — Person · Main guest · 4 mentions · first at 0:54
  He returns to discuss his alternative-history views on ancient civilizations, the Giza Plateau underground-anomaly claims, and his long-running investigation into the Ark of the Covenant.
• Zahi Hawas — Person · Referenced expert / debate counterpart · 2 mentions · first at 7:33
  Presented as a leading Egyptian authority on Giza who opposed (or was seen as opposing) drilling to verify underground anomaly claims; Hancock argues for respect while disagreeing.
• Attorney General Pam Bondi — Person · Referenced researcher (imaging claims) · 1 mention · first at 10:05
  Presented as a credible radar scientist associated with satellite/tomography claims of deep anomalies beneath the Great Pyramid; central to the drilling debate.
  No. This is the this is the problem. The work that Filipo Bondi and Kurada Malanga and others have done is not a crackpot idea. in a way I the reaction the instant hysterical reaction of archaeologists to the publication of.
• Kurada Malanga — Person · Referenced researcher (imaging claims) · 1 mention · first at 10:05
  Named as part of the team behind the Giza underground anomaly imaging; Hancock describes him as a chemist and argues Egyptologists dismissed the method prematurely.
  No. This is the this is the problem. The work that Filipo Bondi and Kurada Malanga and others have done is not a crackpot idea. in a way I the reaction the instant hysterical reaction of archaeologists to the publication of.
• Robbie Williams — Person · Referenced celebrity interested in topic · 1 mention · first at 9:04
  Mentioned as contacting Morgan wanting to visit Giza for a show, illustrating the popular fascination with pyramid mysteries.
  It got a lot of reaction. A lot of people watched it. Millions. Robbie Williams the singer contacted me saying he really wants because I in the end Dr. Zahi invited me to go to the Giza Bram and do a show from it. Robbie.
• Colonel Howard Vice — Person · Referenced historical actor (damaging explorer) · 1 mention · first at 22:59
  Named as the British explorer who used gunpowder to blast into the Great Pyramid, illustrating why Egyptians may be protective about new intrusive work.
  This is the damage that British explorers did to the Great Pyramid, Principally. a Colonel Howard Vice who used gunpowder to blow a huge gash in the south side of the Great…
• Al Capone — Person · Referenced historical figure (analogy) · 2 mentions · first at 30:51
  Used in an analogy (Geraldo Rivera’s 'Al Capone’s vault') to illustrate the risk of hyped discoveries turning out empty—paralleling Ark access skepticism.
  And when they opened it, it was completely empty.
• Galileo — Person · Referenced historical figure (audience comment) · 1 mention · first at 4:00
  Cited alongside Newton as a 'heretic' innovator in a viewer comment used to frame skepticism toward orthodoxy.
  So, Isaac Newton was a heretic. Galileo was a heretic and hundreds of others.
• Dylan Piltchshire Universe 6515 — Person · Audience commenter (referenced) · 1 mention · first at 4:21
  Quoted as an example of intense audience reaction to Morgan’s interviewing of Hancock.
  As if being questioned on these matters was heretical in itself. one whose name is so long at Dylan Piltchshire Universe 6515 appears Morgan doesn't deserve Graeme Hancock.…
• Terry Henry — Person · Referenced sports figure (aside) · 1 mention · first at 4:34
  Mentioned only as Morgan’s favorite football player in a brief aside about a username; not part of core discussion.
  Deserve Graeme Hancock. Well, you're back. Mr. T. Omry 198, which may be a reference to my favorite football player, Terry Henry. It's weird. Morgan just can't listen. Okay. Well, that's a perennial issue. but a lot of reaction.
• Michael Owen — Person · Advertisement testimonial figure · 1 mention · first at 16:10
  Appears only in the Oxford Natural ad as a celebrity success story for weight loss.
  Sleep. They have countless success stories, including from some very familiar faces. England legend Michael Owen, who lost 40 pounds. AFTV's Robbie, who lost more than £100. To…

Books & papers

• Mind War — Book · Primary textual source referenced · 3 mentions · first at 0:20
  Cited as the biblical source describing the Ark’s construction, dimensions, contents, and powers; used to argue the description reads like a 'blueprint'.
  Box is also gold. And in it are placed the two tabs of stone of the ten commandments. This is according to the book of Exodus.

Companies & orgs

• Philistines — Company · Referenced biblical group · 1 mention · first at 29:18
  In the Ark narrative, they steal the Ark, suffer plagues/tumors, and return it—used to illustrate the Ark’s feared powers.
  Like striking people dead. There's a there's there's there's a there's a chap called Usuza. at one point the ark has been stolen by the Philistines.
• Alchemist — Company · Referenced topic group (channel preview) · 2 mentions · first at 44:26
  Appears in the History Uncensored teaser as a subject of inquiry (philosopher’s stone, taboo history).
  Real fears and something was happening which we need to explore. The same for Alchemist and the philosopher stone.

Products & tech

• Sledgehammers — Product · Referenced tool (historical damage example) · 1 mention · first at 22:52
  Cited as part of 19th-century destructive exploration methods contrasted with modern careful drilling.
  Bombing in there with like they did in the 19th century, with gunpowder and sledgehammers. this is the damage that British explorers did to the Great Pyramid, Principally. a Colonel Howard Vice who used gunpowder to blow a huge gash in.

Concepts & topics

• Great Sphinx — Concept · Referenced monument (drilling precedent) · 1 mention · first at 13:54
  Mentioned to show drilling has occurred at Giza before (around the Sphinx) without damage, supporting the argument that careful drilling could be safe.
• Osiris Shaft — Concept · Referenced existing deep structure at Giza · 1 mention · first at 18:30
  Used as evidence that deep shafts already exist under the plateau, supporting the idea more remains undiscovered.
  Expect to find beneath the Giza plateau a great deal more than has already been found. That is very it's we already know that there are deep shafts like the Osiris shaft. The…
• Homo Erectus — Concept · Referenced scientific topic · 2 mentions · first at 26:04
  Used to argue fire use predates 400k years and to discuss capabilities (e.g., seafaring) despite smaller brain size.
• Canaanite — Concept · Referenced religious-cultural concept · 1 mention · first at 33:17
  Appears in the argument about Manasseh adopting worship of a Canaanite deity (Asherah), motivating removal of the Ark from the Temple.
  Was an apostate. He had abandoned the traditional Judeaic faith and he had adopted the worship of a Canaanite deity called an Ashera. And he had placed an Asher in the Holy of…

Places & events

• Giza Plateau — Place · Primary setting / investigation site · 4 mentions · first at 10:42
  The discussion centers on alleged deep underground structures beneath Giza and the feasibility/ethics of drilling to confirm them.
• Ethiopia — Place · Core geography of Ark claim · 5 mentions · first at 30:22
  Hancock argues Ethiopia (Axum, St. Mary of Zion) has the strongest claim to the Ark, describing the guardian tradition and national religious focus.
• Egypt — Place · Core geography of discussion · 2 mentions · first at 10:42
  The pyramids, Giza Plateau, and Egyptian texts/afterlife concepts are central; also referenced in context of heritage protection and past damage by explorers.
• Kuyu — Place · Example site for underground cities (testing tech) · 1 mention · first at 14:40
  Cited as an indisputable underground city in Turkey that could be used to validate the imaging technology against known structures.
  Indisputably there. Absolutely. They're in Kuyu for example. I've been in them.
• Denuyu — Place · Proposed test site for imaging method · 1 mention · first at 20:22
  Named as a known underground structure in Turkey where the radar/tomography method could be validated before drilling at Giza.
  Needs to be done rationally is further testing of the method on known underground structures like Denuyu in Turkey for example. And then ultimately if the method continues to…
• Mesopotamia — Place · Referenced ancient region source · 1 mention · first at 38:23
  Cited as containing earlier versions of biblical stories (notably the flood), supporting a comparative-text argument.
  From the ancient world. What's what's fascinating is how much that's in the Bible is in older texts from ancient Sumer from Mesopotamia, the supposedly the first high…
• Sumer — Place · Referenced ancient civilization source · 1 mention · first at 38:23
  Invoked to argue Old Testament narratives draw on older Sumerian/Mesopotamian texts (e.g., flood story).
  From the ancient world. What's what's fascinating is how much that's in the Bible is in older texts from ancient Sumer from Mesopotamia, the supposedly the first high…
• Sahara Desert — Place · Referenced neglected research region · 1 mention · first at 2:48
  Hancock cites it as an example of archaeologically underexplored areas relevant to deep past and missing evidence.
  World that were really interesting in the remote past are particularly neglected like the Sahara Desert and like the submerged continental shelves, sea level rose 400 ft at the…

Sponsors

• History Uncensored — Media · Promoted spin-off channel / segment · 3 mentions · first at 0:46
  Introduced as a new YouTube channel featuring taboo/controversial history topics, with Bianca Noel as host.
  Well, later in the show we have a special preview of the allnew History Uncensored, our new YouTube channel.
• ExpressVPN — Company · Sponsor / recommended product · 3 mentions · first at 16:42
  Advertised as a privacy/security tool for online shopping and travel; Morgan endorses personal use.
  It's peak time for hackers and data brokers who steal your information online. The solution is very simple. Use ExpressVPN to shut them down. Top tier encryption keeps your…
• Oxford Natural — Company · Sponsor / advertised product company · 2 mentions · first at 15:48
  Sponsor segment promoting Optimum Day/Night supplements with discount code and celebrity testimonials.
  Today's show is sponsored by Oxford Natural, makers of the Optimum Day and Optimum Night all naturatural supplements. Thousands of Brits and Americans are already taking them with.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:01 You are most famous beyond the pyramids for the Ark of the Covenant. That's what started me on this journey.

0:07 Yes. You think you know where it is. The outer part is gold coating a wooden interior and then the inner part of the box is also gold. And in it are placed the two tabs of stone of the ten commandments. This is according to the book of Exodus. Every description of it in the Bible has it doing really awesome terrifying things like striking people dead

0:32 and it's guarded by a single monk who's never allowed to leave his chapter. That's correct. The ark is a thing of fire. And that was the moment when this story really got its hook into me.

0:44 Well, later in the show we have a special preview of the allnew History Uncensored, our new YouTube channel. We'll begin with a returning favorite. This time last year, I interviewed for the first time a documentarian Graeme Hancock, whose uncensored theories on ancient civilizations have made him a superstar in the world of alternative history, but maybe a pariah in mainstream academia. We've had some lively debates about it all since then, and there have been recently a few updates. I'm delighted to welcome him back, Greg. Welcome back.

1:12 Thank you. What was your reaction like to our interview last time? Well, it was it I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it very much because you pushed me all the time and that's what you do and you and you and and and you do it very well. But you

1:24 you you you pushed me in a way that wasn't sneering and condescending. So, uh I found that quite refreshing actually. I'm used to being pushed but usually it's accompanied by sneers and condescension. So, it was was nice to have that.

1:35 Well, I have a sort of skepticism of anyone who has a definitive view about something which actually hasn't been proven.

1:42 Well, I'm not one of those because I don't have a definitive view. That's what I mean. I always take a bit of an open mind to stuff like because I just think unless there is an obvious definitive provable

1:51 Yeah. answer which cannot be contested. Well then whose view is more interesting than anybody else's?

1:57 Yeah. And that and and you know that varies across the sciences. You could say that uh you you could say that a neurosurgeon's view on neurosurgery um might might be better not contested by a journalist. But but when it comes to archaeology, the level of science involved in archaeology is not comparable with the level of science involved in in in neuroscience.

2:18 Uh and and uh there there's room for the for the man sort of informed conjecture, right? I mean the same set of of facts that we know, but a different interpretation of what that may all mean.

2:29 Absolutely. What what what archaeology is doing is is conjecturing based on extremely limited information. First of all, first of all, limited because only a tiny fraction of the Earth's surface has even been looked at

2:42 by archaeologists and huge areas of the world that were really interesting in the remote past are particularly neglected like the Sahara Desert and like the submerged continental shelves, sea level rose 400 ft at the at the end of the ice age. and and and then and then secondly um archaeology has got a very weighing, measuring and counting approach to evidence and that's fine and that's really necessary. Uh but my my problem with that is that I don't think that archaeologists should have a monopoly on the interpretation of the past and I don't think that they should regard others interpretations of the past as necessarily inferior to their own.

3:18 Right. So we had some great reaction. We've collected some of the best ones. Uh, a positive reaction from somebody called the G-Zone. Archaeologists claim that if there was an ancient lost civilization, they would have found it already. Dude is right in front of their dumbass faces. Lol. Hancock is bang on the dollars. History is being hidden from us. That was good. Negative. John Wade. If Graeme Hanok thinks there was some kind of advanced IA civilization that preceded what we're aware of, they should at the very least propose at least one testable hypothesis.

3:51 Otherwise, Hanok needs to stfu and let real scientists do the science. And in the middle was a guy called John Mel. So, Isaac Newton was a heretic. Galileo was a heretic and hundreds of others. Heretics gave this technology and built this world. Maybe Hanok is not correct, but more correct than other so-called experts.

4:13 And then some of the feedback was enraged as if being questioned on these matters was heretical in itself. Uh, one whose name is so long at Dylan Piltchshire Universe 6515 appears Morgan doesn't deserve Graeme Hancock. Well, you're back. Uh, Mr. T. Omry 198, which may be a reference to my favorite football player, Terry Henry. It's weird. Morgan just can't listen. Okay. Well, that's a perennial issue. Um, but a lot of reaction.

4:43 Yeah. Which I just found really interesting. You know, I I wasn't quite aware. I mean, I knew of you. I didn't aware quite how polarizing you are.

4:52 Yes, it's a it's a it's it's a curious thing and I never I never expected this to this to happen to me. Uh it it it seems to me first of all I want to be clear. I am not claiming that I have proof that there was a lost advanced civilization during the ice age. This is a possibility that I explore. I'm I'm unhappy with the picture that is presented to us of the remote past by archaeology. I think there are major missing pieces of the puzzle. For example, ancient knowledge of astronomy of of detailed aspects of astronomy uh which is which is present in ancient mythology uh and in ancient traditions around the world is largely ignored by by archaeologists and I think it needs to be taken into account. Um, so you know, I I did not expect uh suggesting that there may be problems with the current picture of history that we have and trying to look for an explanation to those problems. I didn't expect that to

5:51 be polarizing. I mean, you become a bit of a cult hero, but is that a problem? If you get treated like a kind of quas religious figure rather than historian just asking what you think are quite rational questions, is that is that problematic? I I've I've never experienced being treated like a quasa religious figure. That that has not been my my experience at all. Um I'm what what what happens is that is that people who have an interest in the past are profoundly dissatisfied with the explanations offered by archaeology. And I think I think they find me useful as offering an alternative point of view which is worked out and which is thought through which isn't just off the off the top of my head, but I do not see myself as um as a cult leader. I have nothing to do with with with any kind of cult. I don't want to be a leader. I don't want leadership in the world. Actually, I think leadership is a big problem in the

6:48 world. Last thing I want to be is a leader. What I would like to do is is is provoke some freethinking. I would like I I I think that there's not enough

6:57 thinking for ourselves in the world today and in the world of the of archaeology. uh the the I think the main problem is that archaeologists are saying we have a monopoly on the past. We are the experts on the past. We are the ones who can tell you what to think about the past. And that that does not sit well with the modern mindset where people are actually trying to think for themselves and are now wishing to re release themselves from top- down control.

7:24 So since we we spoke last, we've had a lot of quite a heated debates about stuff in your wheelhouse, not least of which have been the pyramids.

7:31 Yeah. In Egypt, probably the most inflammatory was when Dr. Zahi Hawas, the godfather of the Giza pyramids, as he's known, wrote a thousand page book about the Giza pyramids, went up against two of your supposed disciples.

7:46 No, I have no disciples. I really want to be clear about that. They probably see themselves more as that than you would. No, no. We we're we're we're a group of people with with with open minds, but nobody is leading anybody else as far as as far as I'm concerned.

8:01 Well, people who who like and admire you and think you're a force for good. Jimmy Corsetti and Dan Richards and they were debating the issue where the high-tech drilling of the pyramids was a good idea. Let's take a look.

8:14 If you want to squash debate involving, you know, conspiracy theorists and everything, all we got to do is go in and look. We know where it's at. We could drill a hole. This is this is doable.

8:22 Yeah, I agree. Why can't you just go in? You cannot just go in directly like this. You have to make a study. You have to research it. You have to decide as a scientist when can you do it and when we can we do that we can come on. I MEAN LOOK WE WE sent rockets. We sent rockets to the moon. Hang on. We have sent rockets to the moon since the 60s. I mean

8:46 this is the pyramid of Egypt. This is something valuable. This one of the seven wonders of the world. You just can go and boom and a drill like this. You have to be sure that this drill is important to discover something.

9:01 Yeah. What was interesting about that? It got a lot of reaction. A lot of people watched it. Millions. Um Robbie Williams uh the singer contacted me saying he really wants because I in the end Dr. Zahi invited me to go to the Giza Bram and do a show from it. Robbie Williams wants to come. He was serious. So I really want to come. He's fascinated by it. Um, a lot of people are. I still am not quite sure why Dr. Sahi was so against what seemed to me to be a fairly obvious thing to try and do.

9:30 I think I think we need some some sympathy and some respect for Zahi Hawas. Zahi has devoted his life to the study of the pyramids. He he is a world expert on the pyramids. He's passionate about the subject. Isn't he's not putting on an act. He the pyramids really matter to him and and they matter to his sense of national pride as an Egyptian. Uh and he has a huge amount of knowledge and information to bring to the subject. But I think that Zahi is very tired of people coming to him with what he regards as crackpot ideas and saying you should do this, you should do that.

10:02 Is that a crackpot idea? No. This is the this is the problem. The the work that Filipo Bondi and Kurada Malanga and others have done is not a crackpot idea. Um, in a way I I the reaction the instant hysterical reaction of archaeologists to the publication of this information is an indication of the the serious problem that archaeologist they did not get to grips with the nature of the technology.

10:28 Right. Let me just remind of what you're talking about. The specific story that we were debating with that panel was the news back in March that a team of Italian scientists announced a discovery of a colossal underground complex plunging nearly three and a half thousand feet beneath Egypt's Giza plateau. And just this month uh well I think it was just this month Filippo Beyond as he said the radar engineer who developed the imaging method has gone public on the American Alchemy podcast saying that four independent satellite operators Umbra Capella Space ISI and Italy's Cosmos Skymed all returned identical raw tomography data showing the same structures. Now just put that into simple layman's language for me.

11:15 Yeah. What are they actually unearthing? Well, first first of all, the hysterical initial reaction of archaeologists was because they did not understand the technology. They thought that they thought that it's simply a matter of radar. Uh and they correctly pointed out that radar cannot see very far under the ground, particularly when the radar is up in a satellite. You have ground penetrating radar which can get 20 or 30 feet under the ground if you're actually on the ground. But seeing underground from a satellite with radar is not a possibility. So the reaction was this can't be real. This isn't real. But they don't understand the technology which is not just synthetic aperture radar. It's combined with tomography. It's combined with sound. The earth has sound. It has it has resonance. It has vibration. Even a car moving can create vibrations under the earth if there are cavities or spaces under the earth. So it's a

12:01 combination. Uh and don't ask me for the high-tech details, but it's a combination of radar and sound and the mixture of the two that produces this this imaging. and the technology has been tested enough for it to be taken reasonably seriously. That does not mean that they've discovered anything. What it means is that they've that they have identified anomalies beneath the Great Pyramid. And you are absolutely right. The only way to settle that is to drill.

12:31 Has to be. And I can't and that's the only way. But is that way? Look, I I'm a big fan of Dr. Z. I thought he was great. and he obviously is indisputed um you know probably most expert guy on the Giza pyramids alive. Um

12:44 sometimes people in that position and I I'm not going to speak for him as to whether this is true or not.

12:50 I you can get a little bit overprotectative because it means so much to you because he's an Egyptian because this is the great pyramid. all these things that sometimes you get a little overprotected when in fact the world I think

13:04 ought to be able to try and work out what what has and it's amazing to me that all four of these operators came back and all made the same identification right that means there's something probably I mean arguably

13:17 arguably you have to say on the balance of probability that it's more likely than not there there's something there yes at which point I you know I I knew nothing about the pyramids before probably before I spoke to Um, now I'm like really obsessed with it because I'm like, well, what is there? And could it be there is this whole thing underneath? Right. Yes, it could be. But there's only one way we really can find out, right? Drill.

13:37 Right. As as Donald Trump would say, drill baby drill. And there's no problem in drilling down a kilometer or 2 km below the surface of the earth. We we have drilling projects in the world that are going down 12 km. It can be done. It's technically possible. Furthermore, drilling has taken place on the Giza plateau before. There has been drilling around the Great Sphinx uh supposedly looking for groundwater beneath the Great Sphinx.

14:00 Did it cause any damage to them? No, it didn't cause any damage. So why why would he be so implantably opposed to it?

14:06 I think that I think that I think it's this overprotective thing. I think it's the absolute fatigue with with just being delued with lunatic theories and and and feeling look we archaeologists, we devoted our lives to this, we understand Giza, it just can't be. But it was premature because because the technology is good. The technology is interesting. I think what needs to be done is first of all let's identify a number of deep structures around the world. There are underground cities in Turkey

14:36 um which which go down a couple of hundred feet beneath the ground. Indisputably

14:40 indisputably there. Absolutely. They're in Kuyu for example. I've been in them.

14:45 So we know there are grounds. We know that and we know their shape. We know the shape of all the rooms within within

14:51 and I mean treat me as a complete village idiot, but why are they so far underground now? What's happened?

14:56 Well, they were they were dug out. Nobody knows who by. One theory is that they were that local people used them as places of refuge when the area was under attack. But these are very complicated.

15:06 So they would have been almost like tunnneled down. Tunnled down, right? So they weren't like over time been, you know, changing terrain. No, this is stuff that was created underground made by human beings. So is that your theory then about what may lie under Giz of the

15:20 No, no. My my point is that this is a this is a place where the technology can be tested because we know the shape of those underground spaces.

15:27 So if it goes down and identifies it all accurately, you'll know the technology could possibly do the same with

15:32 that that makes it more likely that the technology is identifying something. What's the dream? I mean, what what in our wildest fantasies when you think about this and you think of the possibilities, what could lie beneath the Giza pyramid? Today's show is sponsored by Oxford Natural, makers of the Optimum Day and Optimum Night all naturatural supplements. Thousands of Brits and Americans are already taking them with incredible results. Optimum Day boosts your energy and supports weight loss throughout the day. Optimum Night helps you relax and get deep, refreshing sleep. They have countless success stories, including from some very familiar faces. England legend Michael Owen, who lost 40 pounds. AFTV's Robbie, who lost more than £100. To watch their full stories and many more, scan the QR code on your screen, or visit oxfordnatural.com/pers.

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17:17 That's ExpressVPN's lowest price ever, plus four extra months of service. Just scan the QR code on the screen or go to expressvpn.com/pers. It's very clear when we when we go back into the into the ancient Egyptian texts that the one thing you know I'm not particularly interested in the great pyramid as a machine or as some kind of device. Maybe it is maybe it is it is more than one thing but one thing for sure is that the pyramids were connected in the minds of the ancient Egyptians with the mystery of life after death.

17:51 What happens what happens to us when we die? And they explored that mystery in great depth. And they had a concept of an underworld, a place that they called the duat where the soul travels to after death. And interestingly, where you see depictions of that underworld, for example, on the tomb of Moses III in the valley of the kings, you can see that they consist of narrow corridors and passageways very much like the internal corridors and passageways of the great pyramid. There's even a pyramid in the Egyptian underworld. So there's some there's some sense that that we should expect to find beneath the Giza plateau a great deal more than has already been found. That is very it's we already know that there are deep shafts like the Osiris shaft. The bottom of the Great Pyramid, the subterranean chamber is 100 ft vertically beneath the base of the Great Pyramid. I think we're only scratching the surface of what's

18:39 underneath the Giza Plateau. I assume you've been out there, have you? Many times.

18:43 Many times. when you when you stand there I mean they are it's an astonishing thing right I mean every single part of it is kind of breathtaking in the scale and ambition many people just don't believe it could have been done the way people think

18:59 it's like the great pyramid is like a huge question mark standing there on the Giza plateau saying figure me out figure me out figure out first of all figure out how we did this there had been multiple theories about how

19:11 when you first went there how did you feel standing all inspired. It changed my life. It It changed my life and I I I I felt drawn towards it and I felt compelled to try to understand it better. And in that process, I've climbed the Great Pyramid five times. I've been inside every known cavity cavity and passageway and corridor inside the Great Pyramid. I've I I feel intimately connected to it. But I also feel that that is just scratching the surface and that there is much much much more to be found. When you go down to that subterranean chamber beneath the Great Pyramid, you'll find at one side of it a narrow corridor cut into the rock face and it then goes for 30 or 40 feet and then it stops dead

19:49 and you have to wonder what else is down there. So I'm I'm fascinated by the work that that Philippondi and his team have done. I think that

19:57 are they credible these guys? They are absolutely Philip Byondi is a is a thoroughly credible radar scientist. Karada Malanga is a is a chemist. Neither of them are Egyptologists. This is one of the problem. But they are coming to this with scientific method. Their method has not been understood by Egyptologists. It's been rejected prematurely without understanding what the method is. What needs to be done rationally is further testing of the method on known underground structures like Denuyu in in Turkey for example. And then ultimately if the method continues to check out and and proves that it can identify deep underground spaces, then it comes time to drill. And it it need not be a very damaging project.

20:38 And you think that potentially what could lie there is a realworld manifestation of the spiritual world that you were talking about?

20:46 I think so. I think that I think that it was a place of initiation. The the ancient Egyptians uh were were obsessed with preparing for death. that that this was that this was the ultimate adventure in life, that you would be tested on everything, everything you had done in your life, and that you would have to make a journey through narrow corridors and passageways in darkness, confronted by gates protected by fiends and demons. It was a terrifying prospect. And I suspect, it's only a theory. I'm not I can't prove this but I but I suspect that there was an initiation process where initiates were given an insight into what that journey would be like a practice rush.

21:26 It would be incredible, wouldn't it? On the afterlife journey. Yes, it would. Did you ever talk to Dr. Zahi?

21:31 Zahi and I get on. Okay. We've had we've had we've had some misunderstandings in the past.

21:36 I mean, if I was to go out there because he's invited me. Would he if you would he let you come with me?

21:40 Yes. I'm I'm sure a fun trip. I'm sure he will. What? Zahi and I have come to is we've we've agreed to disagree.

21:49 Uh there's there's too much mutual insulting going on in this world where archaeologists insult alternative researchers and alternative researchers insult archaeologists. Zahi and I have agreed that we will not insult each other personally anymore. Our disagreements will be purely on the basis of of the the our interpretations are different interpretations of the evidence. And I don't think Zahi is opposed to different interpretations of the evidence, but he is opposed to flimsy, badly thoughtout ideas.

22:15 Who makes the final decision on whether this drilling can happen? Well, ultimately it's going to be the Minister of Tourism and Antiquities who who make that decision, but Zahi would be very influential in that aspect. And it would be it would be necessary to show that the drilling could be done without causing massive damage. And I don't see why it should cause massive damage.

22:33 I mean, you know, do you understand why he has big concerns about it? Yes, I do. I mean, we're looking to him. We're looking at the last surviving wonder of the ancient world.

22:42 This is this is a unique, precious, and special place for the heritage of all of humanity. And we shouldn't just be bombing in there with like they did in the 19th century, you know, with gunpowder and sledgehammers. I mean, this is the the damage that British explorers did to the Great Pyramid, Principally. a Colonel Howard Vice who used gunpowder to blow a huge gash in the south side of the Great Pyramid who went in and blew his way up into the chambers above the king's chamber.

23:10 Why did he do that? Because he was drawn to the Great Pyramid as well. He wanted to find out. And there were no there was no moral code governing governing what they did. They could just take it and and so much stuff was taken away from Egypt and brought to brought to other brought to other countries. the the possibility of doing damage to this site is a is a horrific thing and we should not do it. But I believe that we are an intelligent species. We have a good grasp of our technology and I think it would be possible to do drilling at the great well in fact this is the second pyramid we're talking about the pyramid attributed to cafre uh it would be possible to do a deep drilling around there to

23:49 ground truth whether or not these imaging that that curado malanga and philip beondi and their team are coming up whether there's anything to them or not is it is it just noise or is it real signal that's what we have to find out

24:01 it's so interesting um there's been another story in the news that archaeologists now say humans mastered the art of creating fire 400,000 years ago which if that is true would be 350,000 years earlier than previously known and it's a a groundbreaking discovery in a field in Suffukk the evidence unearthed a patch of scorched earth I love this stuff and firecracked hand axes at a time when brain size was approaching the modern human range and some spec species were expanding into harsher northern climates, including Britain. Now, does this all fit into your thesis that humans were quicker to civilization than previously thought?

24:45 Yeah, I have a saying which is stuff just keeps on getting older and this is true with with with we are constantly pushing the timeline back. There was a time when we thought that anatomically modern humans only went back 50,000 years. Then that was revised to 196,000 years. Then it was revised again with a discovery in Morocco to 300,000 years. Anatomically modern humans, people just like you and me.

25:09 Um, my point is that if you're going to have my proposal that we may have a forgotten episode in human history, the longer we've been around as human beings, the more likely that is to to be the case.

25:24 Uh, and that's why I use that phrase. In this case, I think we're we're almost certainly looking at Neanderthalss who made this fire in Britain. uh there were not anatomically modern humans in in Britain at that time, but Neanderthalss are closely related to us. In fact, in a sense, we are Neanderthalss.

25:38 When when you I mean, look, when someone like you when I read that, I'm like, "Oh, it's really interesting." When you hear there's a patch of unear scorched earth like this, which could support your long-held theory. I mean,

25:52 but the human story is longer than we think. Yes. But how do you react when you hear something like Well, first of all, let's let's bear in mind that humans were using fire before that. There's a there's an ancestor with the rather awkward name of Homo Erectus. Uh, and Homo Erectus was quite an interesting character. His brain size was brain size was about half of ours. Really? But this this being was by people were his other body parts twice as big. Is that why

26:19 perhaps they don't they don't survive? Unfortunately, we can't measure them. But but he was sailing. Homo erectus sailed to you know sailed to Australia. Uh they were capable

26:28 but you can't sail to Australia without a brain. You no you can't. They were fully they were they were about a smaller the smaller brain or smaller head or both?

26:37 Well smaller brain right I mean look you know given computers were massive and are now tiny. Could the human I mean does it make any difference to your brain power?

26:46 Yeah this is this is a very good no it's a very good point to the extent to which brain size is linked to brain power is not clear. And we've got the example with computers where we're miniaturaturizing things more and more. So it's not it's not so important. But my point was that fire was being used by homo erectus. The question is were they managing fire? Were they actually did they know actually how to create fire to try strike a spark? And I think what's happening in this case is they're saying they found evidence definite evidence of sparks being struck. So that's another another aspect of human beh. My point about your reaction is like when my football team Arsenal score two or three brilliant goals like last night in the Champions League, I'm like punch in the air and shouting is are you calm and measured when you hear these things or do you leap around?

27:30 No, I don't punch the air about about the finding of you earlier evidence of fire. No, that's that's um I would I would expect that actually long before 400,000 years ago, human ancestors were managing and using fire. It's just that archaeology hasn't found the evidence for that.

27:48 Fascinating. Um, let's talk to another fascinating thing. The Ark of the Covenant. We didn't get round to this in our last interview. You are most famous beyond the pyramids for uh the Ark of the Covenant.

27:58 Well, it's what started me on this journey. Yes. So, for those who who only know a little bit about it from Raiders of a Lost Ark,

28:05 in very simple terms, what is the Ark of the Covenant? Uh the ark of the covenant is the box about 3'9 in long, 2' 3 in high and wide uh made of uh wood and gold. The outer part is gold coating a wooden interior and then the inner part of the box is also gold and in it are placed the two tablets of stone of the ten commandments. This is according to the book of Exodus. uh Moses uh is summoned to Mount Si uh creates the tablets of stone uh and and the ark of the covenant is built by a craftsman called Bezale who builds this object and it's a very strange object that it was one of the things that started me thinking could there could there be missing episodes in the human story because when you read the description of the ark of the covenant in the book of Exodus it's like a blueprint

28:58 how big is it 3'9 in long 2'3 in high and wide carried on carrying poles. Every description of the of it in the Bible has it uh doing really awesome, terrifying things. Uh like striking people dead. There's a there's there's there's a there's a a chap called Usuza. Uh at one point the ark has been stolen by the Philistines. Uh but it's caused them so much damage at a city called Ashdod. Interestingly, the Bible itself uses the word cancerous tumors that the Philistines opened the ark of the covenant and they filed past it like some kind of tourist object and then they all started to die and they died of cancerous tumors. Well, eventually they decided to send it back to Israel and they put it on a cart uh drawn by a an ox and they sent it back towards towards Israel and and on the the journey the ark apparently and this is in the Bible was rocking on the on on on the platform. So somebody reached out

29:54 to stabilize it and a bolt of fire shoots out from the ark and strikes him strikes him dead. There are occasions where it strikes its own bearers dead where it rises up into the air and rushes towards the enemies of Israel. It's the most intriguing object and and

30:10 you believe because you wrote a book about this called the sign of meal. You believe not only is it real but you you think you know where it is.

30:17 Well I mean you your argument was I was I was the East Africa correspondent for the economist. I was regularly traveling to Ethiopia and I couldn't miss the fact that Ethiopia claims to be the last resting place of the lost ark of the company

30:30 in Axom in Ethiopia in the church of St. Mary of Zion. Correct. In in in the province of Tra

30:36 and it's guarded by a single monk who's never allowed to leave his chapel. That's correct.

30:41 It's all fascinating. But did you get to see it? No. Not that. Does anybody ever see it?

30:46 No. I went there even with a crew from CNN back in 1992. They were gung-ho to get in. Do you remember the story of Haraldo Rivera and Al Capone's vault? Do you remember this?

30:56 So he was a massive TV star. Still is. He's a great guy, good friend of mine. But he was a massive TV star in America.

31:03 And he got wind that Al Capone's vault had been discovered. And they decided to do it as a live special.

31:10 Yeah. Two hours. And at the end of the two hours, they'd open the vault. Yeah. And obviously he had no idea what was going to be in it.

31:17 And when they opened it, it was completely empty. Completely empty. Yeah. Yeah.

31:20 Could this be the Yes. I mean, has anybody seen it? My my case in support of Ethiopia's claim is entirely circumstantial uh based on because I never did get into that chapel and nobody and nobody ever has. Yes, there is one monk who is appointed as the guardian of the ark. Once he is appointed, he can never again leave that chapel.

31:39 But if there's only one monk guarding him, no, there's not. This is the heart of great province. This is the province that that led the rebellion against Mistu Haley Miriam that overthrew the dictatorship of Ethiopia back in 1991. This is an armed camp. The whole place is not everybody in acts of

31:54 Could it all just be a scam? No, I don't think it's a scam. I think a scam would mean to bring a scam. A scam would mean that the Ethiopians themselves don't believe this. They do believe this. This is a passionate belief. There is a replica of the Ark of the Covenant or of the tablets of stone in every single church in Ethiopia. There's more than 20,000 churches. take the replica out and it stops being a church. So we have this pre-Christian relic in Christian churches and it's so important that if the relic or the replica of the relic is removed from the church, the church stops being in the churches consecrated. Yes.

32:28 But that still doesn't mean the original is in this. No, it doesn't. That's why that's why

32:33 why do you believe so passionately it is? I looked into the matter in great detail. The question is what happened to the ark of the covenant? We know that that Jerusalem was invaded by the Babylonians in 587 BC. That they raided the temple. That they took everything out of the temple. They kept detailed lists of everything they took which they carried off to Babylon. Those lists did not include the ark of the covenant. I consulted closely with a number of scholars particularly Bezel Porton uh in in Jerusalem into this issue and he suggested that the ark of the covenant had been taken out of the temple long before the Babylonian invasion. It was taken out uh during the reign of a monarch called Manasseh. And Manasseh was an apostate. He had abandoned the traditional Judeaic faith and he had adopted the worship of a Canaanite deity called an Ashera. And he had placed an Asher in the Holy of Holies of the

33:24 temple. According to Bezil Porton and other experts, there's no way that those who were loyal to the traditional religion could have allowed the ark to stay in proximity to a pagan relic. This is the time when suddenly in upper Egypt on the island of Elephantine opposite the city of Aswan in the Nile a Jewish temple is built 650 BC. It's very it's very puzzling because this was the temple first temple period. There's not supposed to be any temples outside Jerusalem but there's no doubt it's been excavated by the German Archaeological Institute. There was a Jewish temple there. It stood there for 200 years.

33:56 Nobody knows why it was there, but the suggestion is it was put there as a place of refuge for the ark. that the ark was taken there during this period of upheaval in Jerusalem. And then later 200 years after that, the Jewish population of Elephantina were sacrificing rams. And the Egyptian deity of the island of Elephantina is Kum, a ram-headed deity. There was an uprising of the Egyptians against them and they disappear from history. I suggest and the traditions of the Ethiopian Jews themselves support this. They fled south. They followed the Nile River system. And they followed the blue Nile to its source in Lake Tana. And that is indeed exactly where the ancient Jewish community of Ethiopia still lives to this day, the Felashas, the beta Israel.

34:44 They practice a very Old Testament form of Judaism. Put the pieces together and you begin to have rather a strong case. But many scholars, as you know, if not the majority of scholars, I think it'd be fair to say, believe the ark was likely destroyed, looted, or disappeared during that Babylonian conquest of Jerusalem. Mainstream researchers say there is no solid textual or archaeological evidence that the ark was ever taken out of Jerusalem. Is that fair?

35:11 That's fair. It's abs. It's absolutely fair. And yet we have this massive intriguing country in the Horn of Africa. No, you've got me on that. which is which is totally focused on this matter in a very puzzling way which has an Old Testament Judeaic community as part of the population.

35:26 Why won't they ever let anybody go in and look at it? Because it's the why won't anybody be allowed into the Ca in Mecca? Because it's because it's the it's the most sacred place as far as far as the Ethiopians are concerned.

35:38 Is there anyone alive who's ever seen it? No. No. Apart from the guardian of the ark and the guardian of the ark, and I've met several of them, they all get ill. This is another thing that intrigued me. They get cataracts over their eyes

35:50 from why they say the ark caused it. I asked specifically through a translator, how

35:55 they do it till they die. How why did the ark cause this to you? And he just said the ark

36:00 is a thing of fire. And that was the moment when this story really got its hook into me. Uh the the absolute honesty with which that person spoke and the and the the feeling that he was in the presence of some awesome power uh intrigued me. I'm offering this as an alternative point of view. No, and I'm backing up supporting Ethiopian, but I might not be right. The Ethiopians might be here's my point about you, which I I've I was I didn't know what to make of you the first time until I interviewed you and afterwards I said seems completely reasonable to me. I mean, you might not Everything you're saying might be completely wrong, but you don't pretend otherwise. What you're saying is there are a set of circumstances here which if you interpret it like this could lead us to this and there's this fascinating place heavily guarded

36:47 which has all this history and it could be logically that that is where the ark of the covenant lies.

36:55 Yeah, it's I think it's the best claim. It's the place in the world with the best claim.

36:59 I've never read uh never watched Raiders of the Last Ark. I have. Uh, how accurate is it in the way

37:06 in terms of the awesome powers of the ark? Very accurate. Really? Yeah. Spot on. The the the biblical description has been honored correctly in the construction of their model arc of the covenant. Uh, and the way that it strikes people dead and it's used as a fearsome weapon. That's all over the Bible.

37:22 I should maybe I shall watch it. I might watch it over Christmas. It's entertaining.

37:26 You've got me into all this stuff. You see, I never used to like all this stuff. I'm now into it.

37:30 It's fascinating. You you you make it so exciting and interesting and because I know that you're see I think you're intellectually honest because you don't try and say to me well no I'm right about this and they're all wrong. You you don't say that.

37:43 No. You just say look their view is this and my view is it could be this. Yeah.

37:48 I I like that. Yeah. And and and I hope that I'm bringing some balance to the picture which I think has been a very unbalanced picture up till now.

37:55 I've got to wrap up soon but I want to ask you about the Bible. obviously incredibly important historical text. How much of the Bible should we treat as being fact and how much as non

38:07 I think the the uh the Bible, excuse me, particularly the Old Testament is uh an extremely precious testimony that has come down to us in written form from the ancient world. What's what's fascinating is how much that's in the Bible is in older texts from ancient Sumer from Mesopotamia, the supposedly the first high civilization. uh the story of the flood, for example, the flood of Noah that is prefigured in Mesopotamia uh with a much older story that speaks of a global flood and and of uh a god warning one individual that the flood is coming and encouraging him to build an ark and to and to save humankind. Uh there's no doubt that the that the documentation of the Old Testament draws heavily heavily on ancient Sumerian knowledge and facts. Um I think that like any document that comes down to us from the remote remote past

39:06 it has to be taken with a pinch of salt. We have to we have to look at each individual case carefully but

39:12 so some some of it can be proven from from what we believe but other parts of it are subjective.

39:19 Yes. like like like any ancient like any ancient document. I think it should be regarded as the New Testament. It should be regarded as an asset,

39:26 right? Uh rather than uh rather than the the truth, the whole What about the New Testament?

39:31 Truth. Um look, I'm not a Christian. So uh I am. So that's why I'm curious what you were going to say.

39:37 Uh what what I what I see as far as I understand them is the teachings of Jesus uh are uh teachings of love

39:46 uh and teachings of care and and and and support. I see nothing wicked or cruel or unkind in the teachings of Jesus, but I see much that's wicked and cruel and unkind uh in the Christian church over the course of history. Uh and

40:00 do do you believe the Christmas story? No, I don't believe the Christmas story.

40:05 You really are a Grinch, aren't you? I I I I don't I don't believe it's as simple as that. But do I believe that we that we live in a mysterious universe where where

40:17 a god is a definite possibility? Yes. Yeah. Well, I've always taken a view of that. I mean, I had this argument with Richard Dawkins and others. It's like it's fine to say, "All right, you're an atheist and this all happened and or you subscribe to the Big Bang theory, whatever." But they can never answer the one question which makes me certain there must be a superior thing out there, which is well, what was there before the Big Bang?

40:39 Yeah. What's nothing? Yeah. The human brain cannot comprehend nothing or eternity. And because we can't and no one can explain it, to me, there must be a superior thing to the human brain that's there that can comprehend these impossible questions.

40:54 I would go with that. I I I'm just uncomfortable with the with the very rigid way that the three monotheistic faiths, Christianity, Judaism, and and Islam, have created this kind of tribal chieftain that tells us all what to do and who can be extremely cruel. But actually, Piers, you're right. I mean, it's a mystery. It's a mystery to be alive. It's a mystery. Just the fact that you live, the fact that I live, the fact that we can, it's incredible. Consider consider the possibility of neither of us being here. If our parents had done something different, you know, we wouldn't be here.

41:24 I'm kind of fascinated, you know, as I've got older and I've lost a lot of people sadly at different ages and stuff.

41:29 Me, too. And it really, I'm sure inevitably you start to think more and more, well, what what is thereafter? Is it really feasible that we'd have this extraordinary existence and then that's it? I just don't think it is.

41:41 I don't think it is either. I I I do believe that consciousness survives death. And I do think it's also, and it's become clearer to me as I've got older, it's really important what we do with our lives. We do not want to come to that moment of death carrying a burden of guilt and shame and and regret at what we've done. When when we come to the fulfillment and the end of our lives, we should be able to look back on it and say, "Yeah, I made some mistakes. I screwed up in this and that, but by and large I tried to do the right thing.

42:08 Yeah. I want to I want to end by reminding you of what you said about my football team last time.

42:14 I have one question at the end, which is this. Will Arsenal win the Premier League before or after the world ends?

42:22 Before. Thank you. Great to see you. So Arsenal blew it last season but we are currently top of both the Premier League in this country and of the European Champions League. So my question now has evolved

42:37 okay to will Arsenal with all your knowledge of history and all your optimism for the future will my beloved Arsenal win the Premier League and Champions League this season? Well, since my eldest son is a huge Arsenal fan, I have got to say yes.

42:55 Excellent. I love ending on a positive note. Graeme Hank, it's always great to see you.

43:00 Nice to see you. Come back again. I love our chats. That's great. It winds up all the right people, too. So, good to see you.

43:05 Good to see you. And merry Christmas. Merry Christmas to you. Even if you don't believe it.

43:10 Thank you. We'll be taking a bit of a break over Christmas and the new year here at Piers Morgan Uncensored, but that doesn't mean the entire Uncensored family gets to slack off. History uncensored is now up and running. And the host Bianca Noel is joining me to tell us what she has in store. But first, here's a little appetizer.

43:31 Welcome to History Uncensored with me, Bianca. Isaac Newton's secret search for the philosopher stone. Were the Nazis normal? The Slavic vampire panic a century and a half before anyone had even heard of Count Dracula.

43:49 Is the killing of 8,000 individuals somehow worse than the killing of 3 millions? I don't think it is.

43:56 One of the things I found early on was a set of X-rays of Hitler's skull. He was not intrinsically nasty. He He really wasn't. But he was clear about how Germany should be shaped.

44:12 The two facets of the philosopher stone, limitless health and limitless wealth,

44:18 divinely ordained wife swapping. It was a magical way to create harmony across the universe. But for them, that was just how the world worked.

44:26 Randy Bug is these alchemists. What do the historical sources say about cannibalism in the Crusades?

44:34 That's the $10,000 question. People were genuinely disturbed by this. It was widespread.

44:40 They were the Hashishians. They were a sect of Shia Islam. Their goal was to create the political outcomes they wanted through assassination.

44:50 This would be very single white female were you not such a popular historian. We have this astonishing document written in 1732. inspection and findings on the so-called vampires or blood suckers.

45:06 Dracula is a sexual predator. He's making impure the blood of the imperial race.

45:11 Male human beings have a stronger tendency for antisocial behavior. Don't say, "How can you tell a fellow vampire?"

45:23 Well, they're usually not quiet about it. They look great on pizza. History has forbidden questions. They feel morally dangerous. We've got to ask the questions that we'd rather avoid.

45:46 It's fascinating. I love history. Why do you want to do this? History's always been a passion of mine and it's just fascinating. That's why people are drawn to it because ancient history is so intriguing. What mysteries do we not know about yet? But also, it's it feels like a point of contention today in a way that it it hasn't before. Just in the same way that you have debates in the news about what people believe and fake news and what's real, the same thing is happening to history. Like if we look around the world, whether it's Vladimir Putin using older maps to justify invasions of Ukraine, what's happened in Israel and Gaza, China invests in research projects to kind of claim broader territory. Almost every government selects their history to some extent. So we want to be a place that people can trust to learn about history, but most importantly feel educated and entertained.

46:37 Now obviously I'm sort of known for long form interviews, for fiery debates, all that kind of thing.

46:43 Yeah. What do you want to be known for on history on Census? Well, history isn't just the past. It's what we're allowed to remember. It's what's been remembered for us. So my approach is going to be let's take these topics where the right questions or maybe the darker more dangerous questions haven't been asked and ask them because history belongs to everybody. And I want to go into the taboo, the strange, the weird stuff that often academics can be a little shy or sheepish about, but actually they're so revealing about human nature. Like some of our first episodes were looking at vampire panics in the 1700s.

47:18 Vampire panics. Yeah. So this was actually investigated by the Hapsburg Empire. They sent surgeons, officials to find out what on earth was going on there. I forgot I can swear on YouTube. I can say that myself.

47:31 So what was going on there? People had real fears and something was happening which we need to explore. The same for Alchemist and the philosopher stone. Scientists like Isaac Newton were exploring these things. They can't just be dismissed out of hand what was really going on. So, I'd like to be a place where people feel like they can trust us to look into the taboo, the strange, the difficult, and we'll give them both sides and ask the questions that other people haven't been willing to yet.

47:58 So, I watched the first episode about the Nuremberg trials was absolutely fascinating. I mean, it just I learned so much watching it. Oh, that's great. And it was really compelling and really interesting and very timely with all the stuff about Nazis that's been disseminated over social media. Yeah.

48:12 What I love about this new show and channel is if you're out there and you don't know what to believe,

48:20 I have anointed you as the good historian for uncensored who's actually going to try and get to reality. And I think it's so important because there's so much crap out there

48:30 uh of all kinds and young people in particular just they aren't sure what's true.

48:36 Yeah. I think there's there's sort of two different problems. On the one hand, you have this orthodoxy as in certain history is kind of dusty and academic and it's quite limited and it's the purview of a couple of historians that are doing this work in universities and then you have this explosion of people on the internet who have thoughts about history or there are conspiracy theories. It's a lot of noise and there might be some truths to part of that. We want to be the third way where you can come to us and we'll delve into both to give you the answers.

49:06 Love it. And you'll have big interviews from time to time. Big interviews. Sometimes we're just sitting down with historians who have incredible bodies of work who are really interesting people getting to the bottom of them because and this is to the point that you were just making history is a product of humans. It is how the past is written about through a human being. So there's always an angle and a bias no matter how brilliant these people are. So it's a good way to look at what's driving the people writing our history too.

49:31 Well, no pressure Ba, but obviously Piers Morgan Uncensored is a global phenomenon. one of the most watched YouTube channels in our space ever.

49:39 You're the next one on the block and uncensored, so don't let me down. Well, you know, I'm very competitive, so I'm aiming not to.

49:45 I think it's going to be great. I love the first uh few episodes I watched, and it obviously I'm taking a welldeserved break. I'm sure you'll all agree over Christmas, but Yanka will be slaving away, bringing you historical, fascinating facts to the History Uncensored YouTube channel. So check it out, subscribe, and you will be informed, entertained, and fascinated. What more could you want over the festive period? Good luck.

50:10 Thank you, Pierce. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan Uncensored on Spotify and Apple Podcast. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate, and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without you.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "‘Terrifying Things...’ Graham Hancock On Pyramids and Ark of The Covenant"?

Piers Morgan (Host), Graham Hancock (Guest), Bianca Noel (Guest).

What is "‘Terrifying Things...’ Graham Hancock On Pyramids and Ark of The Covenant" about?

Graham Hancock discusses his research on the Ark of the Covenant and ancient civilizations, sharing his theories about its origins and significance, as well as the enigmatic qualities described in biblical texts. He confronts skepticism about his views, expressing appreciation for open dialogue while highlighting the tension between alternative history and mainstream academia.

What is mentioned in this Piers Morgan Uncensored episode?

31 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Piers Morgan, Graeme Hancock, Giza Plateau, Ethiopia, Zahi Hawas, Mind War. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "‘Terrifying Things...’ Graham Hancock On Pyramids and Ark of The Covenant"?

The episode runs 51 min; the transcript is about 9,833 words in 173 timestamped sections.

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