Transcript

Rahm Emanuel Gets Brutally Honest on Trump, Democrats and Israel

From Pod Save America · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 11 min · 13,543 words · 187 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Rahm Emanuel Gets Brutally Honest on Trump, Democrats and Israel", an episode of Pod Save America published December 21, 2025 (1 h 11 min, about 13,543 words). It mentions 11 people, works and ideas, including Democratic Party, Lebanon, Rahm Emanuel, AG1, Hezbollah.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Democratic Party, Rahm Emanuel, Ashley Parker, Tommy Vistor
  2. – 20:00: Democratic Party
  3. – 30:00: Democratic Party
  4. – 40:00: Democratic Party, Lebanon
  5. – 50:00: Lebanon, Biden Administration, Democratic Party
  6. – 1:00:00: Hezbollah, Planned Parenthood Federation of America
  7. – 1:10:00: Hezbollah, Lebanon

Notable quotes from "Rahm Emanuel Gets Brutally Honest on Trump, Democrats and Israel"

  • Suggest he is. we had a ranging conversation. We talked about why he thinks the Democratic Party lost in 2024, how we can fix our brand and put forward a platform that actually…
    about Democratic Party · at
  • All right. So, The Atlantic recently ran a big profile of you by a great reporter, Ashley Parker. The headline was Rahm Emanuel dot for president question mark. That's a question a lot of people are asking. Are you running for president?
    about Ashley Parker · at
  • Syria and Lebanon basically call it non-belligerance. You can use whatever label, but it is in more secure place than ever before.
    about Lebanon · at
  • I said this when I was ambassador to Japan to members of the Biden administration. Any settler who's involved in any violence on the West Bank is on a no-fly zone.
    about Biden Administration · at
  • That's that was the basic bet. Now what it didn't do was deal with the Shiite crescent from Hezbollah to Syria etc.
    about Hezbollah · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Rahm Emanuel — Person · 3 mentions · first at
    Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Tommy Vistor. I just wrapped up my conversation with Rahm Emanuel who is Obama's chief of staff. He was the mayor of Chicago. He was a member…
  • Tommy Vistor — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Tommy Vistor. I just wrapped up my conversation with Rahm Emanuel who is Obama's chief of staff. He was the mayor of Chicago. He was a member of Congress.
  • Ashley Parker — Person · 1 mention · first at

Companies & orgs

Products & tech

  • AG1 — Product · 3 mentions

Concepts & topics

Places & events

Full transcript with timestamps

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Tommy Vistor. Uh I just wrapped up my conversation with Rahm Emanuel who is Obama's chief of staff. He was the mayor of Chicago. He was a member of Congress for several years and he was just the ambassador to Japan for Joe Biden. Um he seems like he's running for president. I asked him about whether he's running for president. You'll hear his answer. It's a little non-committal, but the vibes suggest he is. Uh we had a ranging conversation. We talked about why he thinks the Democratic Party lost in 2024, how we can fix our brand uh and put forward a platform that actually wins back the voters we lost to Donald Trump. We also uh geeked out on some foreign policy. We talked about how Democrats should adjust their policy towards Israel in the wake of the war in Gaza. Uh whether it was right for the Trump administration to bomb Iran. We talked about China. We talked about

Rahm's time as ambassador to Japan. and then how with the benefit of hindsight he views some of the more controversial kind of Obama era counterterrorism policies like drones. Uh it was fun to talk to Ron. It was fun to mix it up. We uh we had to agree to disagree at a bunch of different points but I think you will find it interesting and he certainly has a vision um and view for where the party should go and he is uh hitting the road to make that known and uh I think you'll enjoy it. So without further ado, here's Rahm Emanuel. Rahm Emanuel, great to see you. Nice to see you.

Uh, first question is, you haven't aged a bit. I I'm trying. Um, is me interviewing you as weird for you as it is for me?

It's a little out of body experience that I have to be nice at this point. Yeah,

I'm used to staffing you maybe scurrying away, hiding in the back of a meeting.

Let's Let's just say this. To prepare for this, I had to do about two hours of meditation.

Okay, good. Good. I hope it was mindful. Um, all right. So, The Atlantic recently ran a big profile of you uh by a great reporter, Ashley Parker. The headline was Rahm Emanuel dot dot dot for president question mark. That's a question a lot of people are asking. Are you running for president?

I haven't decided. Uh I'm out uh talking to people, hearing what they have to say, giving some of my ideas on take a couple subjects as like I recently announced uh that I think we should follow Australia and ban social media apps for kids 16 and younger. And I think it's, you know, you're either when it comes to adolescence going to have an adult raise a child or you're going to have an algorithm. And right now the algorithms are winning and parents feel hopeless, helpless in this case. And that has struck a nerve. Uh I have talked about which is something I care about and you know this from when I ran for mayor. The reason is we have twothirds of our kids or 50% of our kids are not reading and doing math at grade level, lowest in 30 years. You know more about the president's position on windmills than you know what he wants to do to fix that.

Mhm. And you haven't heard from any governor about calling an emergency meeting. I've laid out a case of what K through eight should be. Get back to the fundamentals on reading and math. An hour and 15 minutes on the topics, the type of uh support, but fundamentally reform high school. We in Chicago did you get a B average. First city free community college. You earn it with a B average. Second, bring college classes into high school. So kids through dual credit, dual enrollment, advanced placement, international balorate. 50% of the kids in Chicago are graduating with college credit. And then third, you can't earn your high school degree without showing a letter of acceptance on college, community college, or branch of the armed forces or a vocational ed.

Okay? Every child will not just walk, but they'll tell you where they're walking to. And we fund and we got 98% compliance in Chicago, but we have to fundamentally change our education, both reading and math. and what high school is about so we can give everybody a shot at the future. And then mo the most important is making the American dream more affordable and accessible. And as I talk about this, if people react the way I think they're reacting to date and everybody's nice right now, but the rubber hasn't really met the road,

right? Then I'll do it. If I have something to say that in a way to say it that I think uh strikes a chord that I think uh not only with the public but I think addresses what I think are the challenges and I want to talk about later on having been away from the United States for three years. I learned a lot about seeing America from a distance that I couldn't see right here in the arena.

Uh I'll do it. The the 2006 Obama kind of book tour vibe check campaign swing that I think ultimately got

some of us were winning the house back. Yes, you were very busy. You were very busy.

Some of us didn't have time to read that book. Pushing around stories about Jack Abramoff and Mark Foley, deep cuts for the for the nerds out there. Okay, speaking of presidential campaigns, uh the DNC has been working on this autopsy report about what happened in 2024. Apparently, they're going to spike that thing and never release it. Curious what you think about that. But more importantly, why do you think we lost in 2024?

Okay, first to the first part, Tommy, I'm kind of like the middle child, so I'll give a there's kind of two camps here. Let me give you a two and a half camp here. Mhm.

I wouldn't release it now because right now you have the Republicans on the run on healthcare and I wouldn't divert that. We kicked their butts down in Miami. It was a mayor's race. I was there and the Republicans are flipped out. I wouldn't change the story. I do think the report has to be public because I think the only way to get right in 2028 is to understand what went wrong in 2024. Those of us like you and I who are addicts about this and want to know the information and I think it's important put it out kind of in the slow area end of the year. Those of us who care will read it and digest it. But right now the Republicans are scurrying out of Washington hoping nobody noticed that in a period of of the fact that people are worried about health care costs, theirs are going to jack up 20%.

Why would you want to change that narrative? So you're saying like punt it a little bit?

I would I would I wouldn't even punt it. I would like do an on-site kick. Okay.

No, but I would move it. New Year's Day release. Yeah. And you and I and others will read it and understand it and we'll grapple with it. But right now,

I don't want to take the spotlight off the Republicans. So, I'm kind of of it's not an eitheror choice. It's a when choice. That's kind of where I'm at. Okay. And and my thing is with the Republicans running in the dark of night out of Washington, nail them and don't change it. Make sure that by the time they come home and do a couple town halls, all they get is healthcare.

Yeah. Okay. Now, number two, in 2024, this is where I'm hoping the meditation kicks in. So, I calm down.

See how it goes on here. We'll evaluate whether I really did my zen. Okay. So, I I have kind of three things that I think you have to evaluate.

And I do think contrary to CW that 2024 was winnable even with a 70% country's on the wrong track. Not a good candidate, not a good campaign, and clearly not a good message.

You pre- or post Biden? I'm talking about I'm well post. Okay. Um Kla Harris gets the nomination. Biden Harris is down eight within a week because she is change. She goes plus three.

Mhm. and she runs on change and focused on and her best testing ad is about housing and affordability etc.

Yeah. All the way through call it the debate all the high points convention debate she wins and also kind of getting the patan and making it her own. Somewhere afterwards they go from the economy and change as she is different than Biden and Trump. Mhm.

with a campaign based on democracy as on the ballot, etc. to being Biden's continuity in his message. And she goes from plus three to minus one and a half.

Mhm. Unbelievably, I when I find the person that decided it wasn't the economy and change and wanted to go with continuity in Biden,

I'm going to kill him. Wasn't it Joe Biden? I mean, he apparently was like calling her saying, "No daylight, kid."

But yeah, but you but here's here's my view. You're your own person, right? and you pay for all this. You spent $3 billion. He didn't tell you to run on his message. Number that's one. Two, I think in a core message, and I think this for the party. Now, Tommy, you and I worked together obviously with President uh Obama. I worked uh also with President Clinton. Okay.

All three, and this is something the party has to learn for 2028. The three most successful electoral Democrats had to c uh cross a cultural land to get heard on economics. They had to ground themselves in what I call middle class values.

We short change it for President Clinton and Sister Soldier. President Obama talks about parenting and fatherhood and then deals with his own pastor, right?

President Kenny goes down to Texas and says, "I will not be a Catholic president.

I will be and take direction from the pope, but I will be a president who is Catholic." Okay. everyone. And one side note, President Clinton, the number one topic he 40% of his advertising primary in general was on and welfare as we know it was not on the economy stupid was not on the middle class tax cut. And so that is essential terrain. We in 2024 as a party get caught up in what I call, you know, bathroom access and locker room access, not on classroom excellence. We get caught up on pronouns. We get caught up on a host of subjects. But did do we get caught up because Kla Harris barely mentioned like trans issues, trans rights in her campaign. Republicans talked about these issues constantly.

They ran $50 million worth of ads attacking her. And I think some people would argue actually the problem was Democrats didn't fight back and defend and explain our position.

Well, for a lot of reasons, mainly because we allowed constituents constituent groups to dictate message. That is not the people that do it. Yes, they made it an issue, but that's a campaign. Okay. Your job is to make what you want the issue. You have to not only rebut it, you have to turn it. And we did things. It was a recent report um on immigration in the early days in the transition for Biden.

Yeah. And they allowed Washington constituency groups to drive not only policy but message and then the political consequences. That is also true on a whole host of other cultural subjects. And I'm not I'm using culture in a capital C. Yeah. But if you look at the history of successful Democrats, they cross a cultural terrain that gives them a legitimacy to get hurt on the rest. Let me take this message uh or this point just a further

in ' 06. As you know, we kind of modeled first ever using people out of not using but recruiting people out of the national security apparatus to run for office. The tactic or believing that Messenger was message was their biography opened up a slew of voters that you normally get the mute button on as a Democrat.

In the same way on presidential, if you don't look like one, you're grounded where they are in the family room and two that you have the strength to take on a member of the family and say you're wrong, pastor. Right. Mhm.

Sister soldier going on. You can't get heard on the where you want the campaign to be, which is a dichotomy between who we're fighting for and who the Republicans are protecting. Uh

so I hear you. So that's so that's my analysis of 2024. There's other things to kind of go through, but money wasn't the problem. Usually in campaigns, you got three billion dollars.

We made a lot of money. Okay. the message and how you operated uh as a campaign in my view and I can say this from a distance in July and August I was arguing with the campaign from a distance about calling for a national ban on uh cell phones in classrooms and I must have made and I so I don't get illegal I was doing it in after hours but I was making tons of calls to anybody that would answer couldn't get anybody to move Yeah, I I think with the

and I'm not saying that would have won it, but it would have given you that cultural edge. I'm talking about

I think that's a really interesting point and it's something that hits people directly. I do think look, I think on immigration, you're right. There was an abject failure to read pretty glaring warning sides to watch the coverage on Fox News to see how every day they were focused on the border and and it felt like uh chaos and a crisis and the Biden people didn't move. I do think there's been this emphasis in the wake of 2024 on uh the suggestion that Democrats ran on trans rights or were constantly talking about the bathroom or were constantly talking about, you know, whatever or pronouns.

And I just I don't think that's accurate. And I think it leads to the trans community feeling like they were blamed for a loss that I think was about inflation and economic issues and others. And and I think if we we I don't want us to miss the point and I think that was really the the real problem.

I I uh it's your show but I just slightly disagree. No, here's why. There one you come out you're let's dial put the clock back a little and look at the video again. We spent two years shutting schools down during CO much longer than the science actually grounded

and people knew it. Yep. And the moment we opened that school door, we blew open the bathroom door. There was debates about bathroom access. There was debate about locker room access. And there was debate about sports. And we were I'm um this is where I disagree. We weren't a party of acceptance. We were a party of advocacy on a set of subjects that weren't core to people. And not that people I I fun as somebody who in 2016 as mayor dealt with bathroom access. I just didn't make it primary. Yeah. But there was to act like there wasn't heat on these topics and that we were

more than silent and we went from a trying to create an environment of acceptance to one that was advocating for them. And then there are other cultural issues. Don't put them in boxes. How we were permiss. We were permissive on this topic. We were permissive on immigration. We were permissive on a host of other cultural issues that boxed us in a place that took a whole group of voters that we could have won. And they said, "Look, you look like you sound like you're from Mars."

Yeah. Look, we might have to agree to disagree. Look, I you're right. There was

I think we should There was heat on this issue, right? I I look, I think the right policy approach is basically libertarian, which is like, let people make their own medical decisions. Let families, parents, and kids make their own medical decisions. Get RFK and Dr. Oz the out of, you know, my conversation with my doctor. When it comes to sports, of course, there's questions of sports fairness, but like it's not a one-sizefits-all approach. Let's let local communities figure that out. Then there's just this question of like of empathy, right? And and communities feeling heard. And imagine you're look, think back to high school. Like I was a a nerdy kid.

Sometimes you feel left out. You feel different than others. Imagine you're like a trans kid and you turn on the TV and Donald Trump is mocking trans athletes like every day at rallies and in high school in the B and taking ballet in the 70s, right? And there, trust me, I was the only uh male in that class. Yeah. Okay. I'm very I'm about an accepting culture without becoming an advocacy culture. We are going to disagree to disagree because I think you are underestimating how much that became a brand and a profile knowing full well that the other side was going to use it.

We have a lot of other things to talk about. Sure. So the the harder question we have a broader Democratic party brand problem. I think we'd both agree on that. Um sketch out for me like the Rama Emanuel vision for the Democratic Party. How do we fix this challenge we have? because we're not we're not doing a lot of that right now.

No. Well, one is the nominee will I'm not let me back up. The nominee will go a long way that you can't go without a nominee and a primary fight. Before that, there's a couple rules about the different people conflate 2026 and 2028. 2026 is a referendum election on them. They own the House, the White House, and the uh and the Congress. When you have that like in 2010, 2018, 1994 or 2006, that is a referendum election,

you have a high turnout about the party out of power. We have seen in every election across the country in the last year exactly that independents are going to break two to one for the party out of power. We have seen it in every election in every part of the country since November 2024. And there will be a low turnout among Republicans, which we have seen in every election for the last year. That is what this election is about. And like we did in ' 06, somewhere in the spring, you announce a like we did a six in 06, you should announce a six in 2026. Some modum of a minimum wage, things that we're going to work on, healthc care cost control, things that actually reflect the message of affordability and accessibility and income growth. I actually think one of the argument, one topic, if I could do a shout out, your groceries are up, housing costs are up, utility rates are up, healthcare costs are up. You know

what's not up? people's paycheck. Yeah. And we need to if one person in this state is getting a trillion dollar pay package, how about giving people a minimum wage increase across the country? They haven't had an increase in wages and with all this technology coming and productivity coming. Well, the contract calls for an increase in wages. So, if other things All right, so that's a 2026 referendum. 2028 is a choice election. Now, one of my things that I think is a problem for the party is we've allowed Donald Trump to blind us.

And what and what I mean by that is everything we're doing is about and there's a lot to fight Donald Trump on. He's doing a lot that's damaging to the core of America. But we have to be able to also prove that we can fight for America as much as we are fighting with every viber and every vigor of our body in fighting Trump.

And that centers around in my core view both on a message standpoint and then what the brand of the party is that the American dream and you and I were talking about our kids earlier before. It's not affordable and it's not accessible to the broad base of America. It's inaccessible. And for those of us that over our course of our careers have made it, our kids one way or another are going to be okay. But it can't be the American dream when only 10% of the kids of America get access to it. The rules when people say I feel like I can't win. There's a reason because you can't win. It is skewed towards Tommy and Rahm and our families. For our heads I we win, tails you lose. And our message and the truth of the matter is and I think Tommy you and I read a lot of history etc. The moment the American dream becomes unaffordable is when our democracy becomes unstable. If you think the system is rigged for your failure you're

going to get pretty angry. Agreed. And to the party is about fighting for that home and the contract is not really hard. Good job. Own a home. Save for your retirement. Save for your kids education and be able to afford healthcare. That's that is not really a lot to ask for out of a country. And we don't have that. Now, we have to be honest. We didn't get here overnight. It was not a Republican fault. It's happened over the last 30 years. Each thing incrementally over a period of time, the ladder got pulled up, the door got shut, and double latches were put on. And you can see there's never been a greater concentration of wealth uh in this country in a period of time, both on home and on the stock market. I mean the two things that generate wealth like now and the idea that the next generation just literally gets handed their entire life's income plus just handed to them and the tax code encourages you to do

it. It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. Um and so to me that's the core and it would open up to a group of voters over a period of time and it's not a one election thing. every day you're doing sweat equity pushing this and I think knowing that as you know the joke is paranoid people have enemies the system is not only skewed you are rather str you know striving to get into a status you're struggling to maintain it and there you are getting the shaft

you look when I left college I earned less than $20,000 and I was able get an apartment today. My my son worked in the Navy, leaves college, he gets without going in much north of what I got, but he gets a housing statement. And without that housing statement, his life would be more no more difficult. A lot of people are making three times what their parents made and they're stuck in the basement. This is a lived they're not paranoid. This is and and the next thing is if mom and dad want to sell the house, the kids come in with the house because they can't get out of there. They can't afford an apartment where I was making a third less than what kids my own kids but other kids are making and I could afford to live on my own where today kids cannot. They have to have three or four roommates or they have to live in their parents' basement. This is insane.

Yeah. I So that's what I think is the I think that is how you get right with the American people. You make it core to who you are, what you are, what you're going to fight about. I think there are other things that if we're strong at home, and I say this going back to what I said about Japan. I learned a lot about Japan. Learned a lot about the Indo Pacific. Being away from America 8,000 miles in 12 hours, I got a chance to learn a lot about America. Probably more about America than any other thing. And we have nothing China is doing scares me. It's what we are not doing at home. China doesn't decide whether 50% of our kids can't do reading and math at grade level. China doesn't decide whether we declare war on our research universities while they're racing ahead.

China doesn't decide whether we don't do all of the above on energy and but only pick oil and gas as we're going to bet everything on it. We have made there are challenges other things we have to do but the things we are uh not doing at home to take care of the home front is making us weaker both at home and abroad. That was and it's and it's really becoming at a higher and higher price to us. We're going to take a quick break, but before we do, uh please listen for 30 more seconds. That's your gift to me this holiday season. If you like Crooked Media, if you want to support the work we're doing, please consider becoming a subscriber. or go to crook.com/friend.

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I think that is the right message. I think people feel like the system is rigged because it is rigged. You're hearing it. You're seeing it in polling. You're seeing it in focus groups like you know swing left is knocking on doors. The number one thing they're hearing is not necessarily affordability. It's like the system is broken. It doesn't you know burn it all down. And so that that leads me to question like look I think on paper you are it's hard to argue anyone else is better prepared to be president. You've been in served in Congress. You were a mayor. You were an ambassador. You were the White House chief of staff. like literally no other job that a White House chief of staff could prepare you to do the job of president, right? But I think politically you're going to encounter voters who are like, "Fuck Washington. Burn that place down. Burn what they've done down over the last, you know, 30 years and they might blame

you for NAFTA, the finance things we our response to the financial crisis in the Obama years, you know, things Congress did." Like, how do you how do you respond to that? How do you deal with that?

A couple things. One is uh you're not wrong about there's let me say there's an axis. One way of saying new which is a bigger bigger kind of call about change is generational young versus old.

The other one is strength versus weak which is a part of the party brand. And having somebody with strength would be different for the party. Now, as you all know, when it came to taking on the financial industry, uh, who got the call and who got the ball? When it came to taking on the insurance companies for kids healthcare, who got the call, who got the ball? Who was the first municipality to sue the pharmaceutical industry over opiates? Who is had the toughest regulations as it related to tobacco and kids? Who took on the national gun gun lobby? So, strength would be a whole new quality to the Democratic party. And second is as it relates to the financial industry, I would just say some of us were advocating for Old Testament justice. I don't want to reiticate. Okay. Some of us said, "I wish you had won that fight."

Okay. No. Well, actually, this actually is a good lesson. And I just did this yesterday with a bunch of high school kids in uh

in Vegas. Old Testament justice. Well, no, in the sense of, you know, the president in the Oval Office are two choices, bad and worse. There's never good and bad. Yeah,

the people that were advocating healthcare first were not wrong that every day that you didn't do it is a day you probably can't get it done. Those of us who were arguing for taking on the financial industry and making the banks and insurance companies your enemy were actually were right both on the economics but more importantly right also on the politics which is you needed an enemy of an interest group the American people were angry at.

In the end of the day he got 300 plus electoral votes. He makes the big decision. He picked healthcare. We did get healthcare, but there was a political cost called the Tea Party.

And none of these are 100% right and and zero wrong. I do believe that we should have taken on the FIN after both TARP the bailout for the banks and insurance companies and then after the recovery act of $1.6 trillion collectively and that's when 1.6 trillion was real money. the political the culture of the country needed a Old Testament justice. Um and you can't do you couldn't do both. And the president said of the three kids, capp trade, health healthcare and financial reform, his favorite child was healthcare. That was his fa joke that Saturday

and he wasn't wrong. We got it done. But don't think that it doesn't come with a consequence both in the sense of

trade-off. Yeah. Because to pass health care, the insurance companies had to sit on the same table. That was the lesson from Hillary care. Fighting banks would have been a better fight. That said, healthc care has become the uh kind of the beaches of Okinawa for the Republican party.

Yeah, that's right. Um, I want to ask you one uh kind of LA question before we get to foreign policy. Yeah, you're in LA at the moment. I think you got a relative who works in the movie business. I think he's like a a PA or something.

I try to forget that he's my brother. Uh so what do you make of this battle between uh Paramount and Netflix to buy Warner Brothers and in particular like President Trump's efforts to inject himself into the process and pick the winner? Like I'm imagining 2010 Barack Obama calling up Warner Brothers and saying like you must greenlight the town too.

Okay, let me wait before we get to this. How many times a day do you say to yourself if we had done something

every day? Okay, like that's before 10 times before 9:00 a.m. Yeah. Yeah. I can't believe I spent $300,000 creating a blind trust as chief executive. I mean, as chief of staff. I can't believe I did that. And I look at this

and also another couple hundred for ambassador. I look at people coming out of prison are already nominated. I'm like, what what am I the schmuck in the room?

We all one funny story. I go to the head of the ethics at the state department. You know, four months out, you have to do an exit uh ethics report. I said, I will do this, but you must be the mate woman, Matt. I mean, is nobody filling out I look at all these people never filled out a financial form. You're chasing me four months afterwards. Crazy.

Yeah. Okay. Now that I that Thanks for the third. Uh so one this I let me go where I think the problem is.

This is the uh Robert Supreme Court. I blame them because with their decisions about FTC the securities exchange that you don't you their view of the unitary power of the presidency means that that the president is the ultimate judge and he will in insert himself and it won't be the rule of law and it won't be a a non-political uh uh independent body.

Yeah. I mean nobody believes this Justin antitrust division. No. Okay. So they uh Noah Felman in Bloomberg had a fabulous piece yes yesterday that all the other justices at the court of appeal circuit court of appeals etc have done a fabulous job and the Supreme Court the leaders have abandoned the rank and file judges on the field. This is their fault. I'm not a fan of Trump, so I don't want this to be. He has a permission slip to insert himself. And all the guard rails about concentrating power in either one person or one of the three branches of government have been eradicated. Forget the Congress because the Republicans have put their entire manhood into a lock box.

This is Robert's fault. And nobody should kid themselves. The Supreme Court has made a horrendous decision about the balance of power and a country that's based on the rule of law. And you got a decision here and the president's inserting himself not only against CNN and not only on what he's rewarding friends that have rewarded him and he's going to weigh in.

Yeah. This is not a pop quiz. you forget that you and I I mean whatever I feel about Donald Trump, you have given a the president whoever he or she may be a permission slip to have an opinion that's more powerful than the law. This is for originalists uh uh or a court system that base thinks of themselves as originalist. This is not anywhere close to the original founding framers of the constitution about how power exercises itself in a political system.

I agree. I so everybody's I mean I look I've read about Netflix versus Paramount and the concentration not and I you know I I don't know but what I do know is that the Supreme Court has allowed the opinion of a president to outweigh the law in a dramatic way. Not just and I'm putting aside Donald Trump. There will be another decision of a concentration of power economic and the Supreme Court has given a green light to whoever is in the presidency to make that decision not the laws and the interests of the country and we do have two problem I think of myself as a free market capitalist and on one side you have Marxism on the other side you have monopolists and right now the monopouists are winning because that's Donald Trump's economic philosophy.

Yeah. And he gets to decide because he's also going to like he's doing today and I've talked about this a year ago on Ezra Klein. Corruption is going to be the issue. And and I actually think the reason MAGA voters feel the way they do is because they've betrayed rather than worried about their paycheck and their checkbook. He's worried about his paycheck and his checkbook and they know it.

Yeah, I think you're right. Look, I think point well taken on the courts. I also do uh blame Amazon a little bit for paying $40 million for some boring ass Melania documentary, which is self-evidently a bribe. But uh you know,

in broad daylight, we'll call it what it is, I guess. No, I mean, look, I this is

and I'm going to do a shout out to the American people. The Roberts Court is corrupt. Corporate America is spineless. Republicans in Congress and the both branches are useless. So, we're down to the judgment of the American people and thank God for them. I know a lot of people in our party, oh, the American people, why do they vote for this guy? They are going to issue a judgment in 2026. And I'm very confident unless something dramatic happens, it is going to be a verdict of guilty on the president of the Republican party. And thank God for them because they are the thin blue line that's going to put a stop to Donald Trump and pause it where Roberts, the Republicans, corporate leaders, titans of media are useless.

Yeah. And I'm trying to make sure that this gets through the FCC what I'm saying because they are useless. And I could say some other things I used to say when I was chief of staff and you walked in. I cannot stand what they have done.

Yeah, I agree. Every one of them have failed the test of integrity. The elites will not save us. No.

Um, all right. So, when we talked about setting this up, uh, you wanted to do some foreign policy, which was music to my ears. Uh, so let's

Well, now that I'm a foreign policy, you're you're an expert. You're an expert. Honestly, I

I actually may one day get a double breasted suit. There we go. Yeah. work at Foggy Bottom. Uh in the wake of the war in Gaza in October 7th, a lot of Democrats have been saying we need to rethink US policy towards Israel. Uh our friend and former colleague Ben Rhodess wrote this uh piece in the New York Times a couple weeks back. He recommended among other things that the US cut off military support to Israel, support US recognition of a Palestinian state, uh and refuse to take Apac money.

Curious what you think of those recommendations and then like what changes you would propose if any. So, is Dami, you know this, um, in 2009, there's only one person the prime minister of Israel calls a self-hating Jew publicly.

You and Axelrod, right? Yeah. Axelrod's pissed that he never gets with the recognition. I said, "You're not that good at Jew, David. You're also not naive around Israel about

publicly. And he's also in his book, the only person he attacks in the book is me." His own book.

What did he ask you for? Just that I was anti-Israel. You know, the same stuff.

Got it. And if you remember and I think you do that battle also in the oval office where literally the president had to tell the prime minister I'm the president lay off a RAM and so on and so forth. I have a photo of it actually because we went toe-to-toe over the housing expansions and settlements expansions the West Bank.

Yeah. So here's let me before it's just about Israel, let's talk about the Middle East and I'll talk about Israel in that context because I think it's the context that matters. Israel has never been more strategically secure since Ben Bengurian was dancing the horror in 1948 in Tel Aviv, but more politically vulnerable.

I had never in my life that I thought that a prime minister of the state of Israel would lead Jews back into the ghetto. And that's what's happening in Israel. That's what's happening in the world. And that's what's happening around the world. Jews can't go to Europe and participate in the Euro vision. while the UAE is holding hosting the world financially in the F1. He has literally in the way he has executed pieces of the last not just the last two years but over his time isolated Jews in Israel. The fact of the matter is this is the best strategic terrain Israel's had since the founding. You have peace in Jordan with Israel. You have peace with Egypt.

Syria and Lebanon basically call it non-belligerance. You can use whatever label, but it is in more secure place than ever before.

Iran is on their back foot. I do want to spend time on this because I think one of the most unreported stories right now is the collapse of Iran, not just strategically imploding in society. You don't really have in the near geography a strategic threat. Second, when we were starting in politics, the Gulf was all about just oil. Today, they want to be part of the world economy, which is what Israel's aesthetiz.

That is an invitation for Israel and they're pissing it away with this prime minister. Rabin understood that and he was a statesman and I say because we're on the 30-year eve of his assassination to seize a moment. It's look, these are not easy decisions. You have to make compromises and then and then kind of leap into the strategic not only unknown but try to shape the events to your f. You have the Gulf countries ready to accept Israel as part of the region which has been the dream the nation among nations since its founding and B you have strategic stability and you have se and you are perceived as a strategic superpower in the region that is and an economic superpower. That is an incredible that is as good a chessboard as Israel has ever had in 77 years. And there is nothing that this prime minister has done whether it's with Lebanon, Syria, or the situations they have done that opened up the Gulf

to seize that moment that the IDF created. Now, I would do things that are very clear as it relates to Israel. You've crossed the line on the settlements. Unacceptable. I said this when I was ambassador to Japan to members of the Biden administration. Any settler who's involved in any violence on the West Bank is on a no-fly zone.

Put them on a no-fly zone. Nothing would make them more upset that they can't come go to Brooklyn, go to any part of America or go to Europe. Just no fly zone.

Biden sort of started some of that process. Trump walked it back, right? You want to go further. Okay. I without calling it out, there are people that know that I want to go much further. Got it. Two, um, you you know, and you and I worked on this. President Obama signed the largest security defense package in Israel's history. I would continue that, but there are going to be restraints and boundaries on that. And third, you're either going to make the most of this strategic opportunity, but you will not hold America's foreign policy.

you will not hold our strategic interests. I think all the others in Trump administration that basically want to just be a hemispheric, you do not want to give up our position in the Middle East. I think that's a foolish pos uh idea and strategically flawed. And I would say this is the this is where we're going and you can either be a part of it or you can be on your own. So if you want Mr. Prime Minister, you want a Spartan nation, let me not stop you. But you're going to realize that's a losing bet. Well, but isn't I mean like a lot of people sort of default to the two-state solution, right? But Netanyahu says he opposes a Palestinian state. The Knesset just voted to annex the West Bank. We've been dealing with this right-wing government in Israel for 15 years. It's only getting worse. It's it's like, you know, Ben and Basil Smotri are now like extremists who are members. Meanwhile, the Palestinian

Authority has no credibility. Um it's undercut. Yeah. They don't they don't get a uh pass because they miss three from Camp David with Eh Barak and Yasar Aravat to what Omar offered him two six years later. It's all the same. But they they have missed many opportunity and Israel has since those times and other events in you know from bombs in disgust square to October 7th have just legitimized their position of non-dialogue but it's not a choice

right and so like I guess what I'm getting at is it feels like a lot of Democrats in the US just say oh we need a two-state solution we need to negotiate the it feels like that's just a way to punt and we'll perpetuate the status quo at some point Don't we need to use our leverage where we can to try to push or pressure Netanyahu into making better decisions?

Well, here's the one thing the and since Netanyahu's decided to play in American politics, I have no problem discussing what the first step on that journey. And I give Nafali ben David the former prime minister that was kind of the one prime minister interrupting BB's 17-year run is legitimizing the Arab-Israelis to be part of the coalition government. They were they had 10 seats that would all reduce the stigma but also legitimize the Arab participa. I mean onethird of the pop not one third 20% of the population is Arab-Israelis. That's first step. Second, there are boundaries.

I would and this was also part of the camp the housing fight that I Mitchell and I were not on the same page. He thought I was too strident about this at that time. I haven't seen the law since. You used to be able in America to get a tax write off if you contribute to building settlements in Israel.

Eliminate it. I don't know if it has been eliminated, but back then it wasn't. That was my position. Two, you cross the line. Totally unacceptable. Three, you're part of any violence. you're on a no-fly zone. You have to impose political, not just economic, but there are some economic costs to violating the two state uh solution because look, there will never be a river to the sea and there will never be a greater Israel, which is the inverse of the river of the sea. They're the same thing. Both part both parties have to give up their extremist position and learn how to live together. There is a legitimate concern by Israel in the sense of a Palestinian authority that can be a legitimate partner with the interest of finding how to work with the state of Israel.

You and I sit here in Beverly Hills as we're taping this. Hollywood for sure. Okay. Hollywood. The trauma on Israel post October 7. It took us a decade on September 11. Yes. And you can't if you if you're navigating a democracy, you can't you can't basically ignore that trauma. I agree.

And it's real. It's viscerally real. I agree. finding a uh and it's and there's a sad twist of irony because the kabutzim on the border of Gaza when you look at the vote totals were the most progressive in Israel politics and they destroyed

not just Hamas but the attacks in Dizzing going back 20 years ago destroyed any center of gravity in Israel for finding a partner for peace that's just a fact for their psyche and their dynamics of their politics the history of America with Israel is we do America does things to create a space for a prime minister to take the risky political steps. Coddling prime minister saying yes to his actions is not in Israel's self-interest. That has not worked and this course will not work. You will not repress the Palestinian aspiration for a state. On the other hand, the Palestinians have to accept a two-state solution, not a river to the sea solution. But would you want to condition military aid so it's not used in the West Bank for example? Like you you know you've seen the videos I've seen of Smotress handing out American machine guns to extremists in the West Bank. Like shouldn't there be some

strings attached to that money? A small why yes as it relates to the West Bank etc. I get what you're saying. um as it relates to the security of Israel and in the relationship because the biggest conflict right now on Israel is Gaza. It's not kind of Iran although Iran's a very serious threat but I'm saying in the sense of hot or Lebanon. So there's got to there without going this policy, there has to be a cost benefit to making sure that Israel realizes the decisions they make to continually repress a Palestinian aspiration to uh and and we're paying for it. America's paying for it. And I think Israel's paying for it by through their isolation both political, strategic, and economically.

I mean look, Israeli symphony can't go perform somewhere in Europe and a singer can't perform somewhere in Europe. People academics can't participate in uh conferences on biio medicine and some of the great biio medicine life sciences are being done in Israel or AI technology. That isolation is going to come with a consequence. And forget that I said it as I like to remind the prime minister. Israel's now facing it for the first time a net immigration. your best act uh young minds in this areas of science and technology are leaving and they're going to Berlin which has its own twist of irony. I said, "Yeah, you want to keep doing this? Go ahead because we're not going to bankroll this because you're bankrupting your own country."

Yeah. And you have to be Nothing helps as somebody who took on BB in 2009 when a lot of other people were lip-syncing the talking points out of APEC. Nothing helps Israel by saying yes to them automatically. There's a cost to this and we can't keep covering up that cost. So whether your manifestation of is it restrictions on weapons, I'm finding a series of other things that I think would hit a nerve politically and culturally in Israel that this is not the cost we should be paying. This is not the Rubicon. I'm not disagreeing with you.

No, no, no. What the question is which of these restrictions costs would hit the nerve to get them to wake up because right now they're living in an illusion that there is no choice they have to make. the choice you're making which you think is no choice comes at a huge consequence and I'm I'm not covering that bill for you when I say I meaning the Americans anymore

agreed on that uh last little thing on this meaning because I we're doing things if you want to isolate Israel and you Mr. prime minister give this stupid speech about Sparta. That's you. We're not going to isolate ourselves and what you're doing, we're not going to keep covering because we're not going to get isolated with you. That's not how we're doing this score.

Yeah. Uh last little thing on this. So, speak president Clinton. Who is the superpower?

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parpenthood.org/defend. Ben Rhodess wrote in his book that you once jokingly referred to him as Hamas. Uh people on the left have taken this anecdote and interpreted as showing that you didn't care about Palestinian rights. People on the right uh seem to think they like to throw it in Ben's face and suggest you think he was a literal terrorist sympathizer. Do you want to clarify whether in that moment you thought Ben was living in a in a tunnel somewhere? I still think academia is a tunnel. No, as I well first of all you are talking about John Kerry as chair of the foreign minis uh foreign affairs committee calls the president's on the road he says Hamas wants to hand me a letter I said we'll take it fact

I said bring it bring it back so we can see it I said don't cut off and the communication and when as soon as the president was back it was a domestic trip I said I approve this and he says good so that's my background I I I don't remember that anecdote but sounds kind of accurate so it's hard for me to argue about it

sounds like a harmless joke to me No. Well, yeah, it was probably harmless, but it obviously it cut a nerve with uh with Ben because he remembers it. Uh but look, we had disagreements, which is what you're supposed to have on policy and how best to the goal of what we were both trying to achieve. And I don't mean just isolating this to Ben and I. It's ironic. Ben would say what he said about me and then BB would say what I said. I think I'm perfectly positioned.

Um you mentioned Iran a couple times. Do you think President Trump was right to bomb Iran's nuclear sites?

Uh the decision. Yes. But let me walk back where I think we are. Um one is we made this threat by all means. Both uh Democrat Republican presidents have said all options are on the table, right? here was an option and you had a chance for once in a uh because if you didn't do it, you definitely would have been shorter than where we are from a strategic setback. I actually think one of the things uh Tommy that's underappreciated right now and you have a lot of news around Ukraine, you have what China is doing visav Japan andor Taiwan right now.

I think this split between society and the government in Iran is an underappreciated under reportported story. I don't think three years from now Iran is going to be what you and I are sitting here today. You have there's a massive drought where they're talking about moving the capital out of Tyrron.

Huge drought. I don't know if anybody knows this, but that's not a minor story.

Yeah. Two, there are bars popping up all over the place and the government can't and won't and will not shut them down. Women now are fully dressing and doing whatever they want as it relates uh the hijab law that we talk about from cosmetics etc. Fourth, music concerts that were restricted are happening all over the place. Fifth, there was recently a marathon run in which women were not were dressing like as if they were any western city. There is a gulf of legitimacy between the society and the government that is wider than we've ever experienced. Now a lot of people have said the revolution or the collapse of the government is right around the corner. so that I could also be the 20th wrong predictor.

Mh. But in the last dozen years, you have had three separate manifestations of domestic civil unrest. Something is bubbling. You've also had the economic pressure by the west led by the United States. And you have given that the government and most importantly the security apparatus failed in its ability to protect the country. I think the religious and you have lastly I should just say a head of state who's 80 plus years old too old and there's a transition of power. All those data points always historically but in this point to something dramatically about to happen.

to the breaking. Yeah. And I I don't I I don't know. It doesn't mean that it goes reformist. And I should probably add the president of Iran just said, "I can't fix this."

Yeah. That was weird. That That was Yeah, that we would you and I would have grabbed President Obama by the collar, pulled him back into the We're not saying that. That's a No, I don't know what what happened with the truth medication, but we're changing the dosage here. Uh no, I think so. What? Something is something's not good in Denmark. uh to quote William Shakespeare. So something is a miss there and it's not on anybody's radar screen as like the last proposal between the Russians and Ukrainians for good reason but something long short and medium-term is happening there of massive significance where the relationship between society and government is under a fundamental change. Does it lead to a revolution? I don't know. But uh when you have that transition of power, there's going to be a break. That's my prediction.

So just on the Iranian front, do you think uh I mean do you think that's a wrong analysis?

No, I think it's it's an interesting analysis. I I'm I'm watching as closely as you are. I just think on the nuclear front I mean you know the tale of the tape is you're right. Everyone every Democrat Obama included Republican said all options are on the table that Obama cuts the JCPOA, the Iran nuclear deal. the US pulls out of it unilaterally even though the Iranians are complying. His own staff, his national security team is like, "Don't do this. This is making us safer."

Then he gets into these talks with the Iranians, you know, sort of this iteration, this last year,

he says he wants to cut a deal. Um, but now there the Trump administration is like bragging to the press about how they were actually lying and they were just saying they wanted more talks to, you know, give the Israelis covers to go bomb the out of them. that we and I worry about American credibility cuz who's going to cut a deal with this?

Well, here's the thing though. So, let's take the credibility and threat it. I happen to think when President Obama uh said to Syria that you're going to cross a red line and we didn't execute on that, it hurt America's credibility. You have a situation Israel's debombing what they're doing, etc. We always have said all options on the table. Had we not chosen to do that, I don't I think American credibility would have taken a hit. I'm not wrong about Look, I supported the agreement with Iran. It's a 5149, but I leaned on the 51. It was not a 8020. It wasn't a 6040. That's just my view. It was a close call. It was a bet that if you stymied the nuclear peace that this thing that I'm talking about that's happening now because of the de demographics of Iran, the youth who wanted to be part of the world would desire.

Mhm. That's that was the basic bet. Now what it didn't do was deal with the Shiite crescent from Hezbollah to Syria etc. And what it didn't do was deal with the technology on missile delivery which are faults to that agreement. There were blemishes on that agreement.

They were part of it, right? I mean, look, every agree everything. Yeah. As I, you know,

I don't know if you know this, but the Obamacare didn't do everything on health. Exactly. Yeah. You just basically you make a decision that this loaf of this slice of the loaf of the bread is good, if not good enough. Okay. And that those were two things that were big problems. You had to make a decision. Were they problems enough not to do it?

And that's why I say the I'm the president was right to do it, but I'm conscious of it. is a 5149 call. That was his option on the table, but he always said to get there, the military kinetic option had to be there. There was a chance given that what Iran was doing in the final three months prior to that of not participating in the international community and not really opening up the full kimona, you could set back their nuclear timeline. And so again, that too, the bombing was a 5149 decision. If you ask me, I think it was the right decision. worried we're going to be doing it again pretty soon, but you know, we'll see.

I do. That's actually the two things I'd keep a flashing light as Gaza stalls and Israel gets filled with their hubris, specifically the prime minister and not make a not have the courage to make the most of the strategic window he has that the IDF gave him. I worry about his decision what he's going to do with Hezbollah with Hezbollah up in Lebanon and what he's going to do that he thinks that he has an opportunity to continue to keep Iran on their back heel that and I do worry about that.

That's why I think America's power is not to say us closely aligned, but here is our position and anytime you're going to endanger our strategic position, that's when we have a gulf between us. It's not our job to stay close to you, it's your job to stay close to us.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you were Biden's ambassador to Japan. Uh, rumor has it. You're still an ally.

You're still an ally. You had doubts, Tommy. There's a You did not think that it could go three years, let alone three months as an ally.

God bless you. There's a lot of turnover over there. Didn't know that. So, they have a new prime minister, Sai Takahuchi. She's the first woman to serve as prime minister. Interesting person, ultra-conservative, kind of wonky nationalist like Shinszo protege. Um, but she made waves right out of the gate by saying that if the Chinese invade Taiwan, that is like a so-called existential threat which would allow Japan under their constitution to deploy troops and use force.

Um, that didn't go over well in Beijing. Uh, there led to this war of words, diplomatic crisis. And then earlier this month, Tokyo says Chinese fighter jets locked radar on their F-15s for like 30 minutes. And it took the United States 10 days, two weeks to say to the long pole, our most trusted ally, that we're going to stand behind you with a B-52 and some exercises,

which is crazy. Yes. And I'm wondering, and everybody in the rest of the region was watching the United States fumble the ball.

Well, so that's sort of the bigger point. Like, first of all, was this a rookie move on her part? How do you how did you read what she said? And also, how worried are we that we got like rising China, increasingly nationalist and militarized Japan, and then the US who seemed willing to just like sell out Taiwan and walk away if we can get an economic deal from the Chinese.

Yeah, I don't know. You just saw the military package by the president pretty robust on the check

from Congress, right? Well, it did go 11 billion. It was kind of robust. I thought, you might be right. I thought it was announced by the administration. Maybe I'm

I could be wrong. Okay. So, let's let's go on the core here. I don't think her move was rookie. She actually annunciated um what had been the policy and I actually think what China's upset is now it's explicit. What China never wanted was the cost to be explicit and it isolated China in the region. I my constant refrain when I was in the administration and I think we were there not that I shaped it but I not that I declared it but I influenced it which was our goal is to isolate the isolator. China's strategy is to constantly take one country, use political, economic and other type of power to isolate them.

Correct. But by building the coalition of Australia, South Korea, Japan, the Philippines, India, Canada, that China's the isolated and they knew it. That's why so I think what she did is uh uh the right she said what uh was always implied, never clear, and now China knows the cost. Second, they're doing a series of things on the island chains of Okinawa that go all the way to within 67 miles of uh Taiwan that things that we worked on that I thought would take a decade are happening. Third, my guess is what she did is doing helps him at home and what she's doing is helping her at home politically because she's in the 70s. As I said, she's the only head of state in the entire developed world that's above 50%. And that's a telling sign. And I think she's done a unique thing. As a woman, she's gotten the urban centers of Japan excited about this change. On the other hand, her policies are all very old and

traditional and conservative. So, she's kept the LDP's rural base in brought them back into the fold when they were fading away. So she's got this kind of very interesting solid position based on the fact that both by person and by policy she's put together a coalition that the LDP has been struggling for 20 years to get politically. Third, you know, Japan is our the long pole of America's policy in Indoacific.

Yeah. A lot of truth. And for her to say one, they went up under our watch from 1% to 2% of uh to GDP to defense spending from the ninth to the third largest capabilities. They just did something recently that uh everybody would have said you couldn't do without a constitutional change. They're selling equip military equipment to Australia that used to be banned.

So they are crossing thresholds because of the security threat. Now if the United States was allin giving confidence to our allies, Korea, Japan, Australia, not doing what we did India, which is ridiculous, we would have we have a partner now for a robust strategy that would say to China, here are the costs for what you're going to do and you better do you better be thinking about this. And remember one other thing, China's in my view, first strategy visav Taiwan is going to be more of a kind of quarantine.

Yeah. A blockade. You cannot do that given where we are in the Philippines and where Japan is on the southern islands of uh of Okinawa that come part of that first island chain. It is not impossible but very difficult once the those capacities are fully mobilized. And so to me, to short end of your comments is I think that uh it wasn't a rookie mistake and I think it's incumbent upon us not to make her look like she has to back down to China because that will not stay in the Japan periphery. That will reverberate in the region. And if we look like we're weak and we look like we're not a permanent Pacific power and presence, there is no way that countries in that region, and I'm thinking of Korea and Japan, don't think over the next 10 years, that they have to go nuclear.

Yeah. The if you think the cost of non-prololiferation is expensive, you're going to get sticker shock on proliferation.

No Yeah. Real scary. Last question. Got to get to a point. Yeah. Uh like I just think I've been thinking a lot about like early Obama era counterterrorism

policies. A lot of critics say there were way too many drone strikes. Um I the further I get from that time in government, I tend to agree with them

really. And well, I tend to feel like the so-called, you know, war on terror at large has been an abject failure. When you see

al-Qaeda like affiliates, ISIS spreading everywhere. Right. Now, the counterpoint to that is when you were chief of staff 2009, 2010, there were some real deal scary threats to the United States. You know, the Christmas Day bomber, uh, Times Square bomber,

the guy from Colorado, I'll walk you through that story. Najib Lazi, right? That's right.

That I'll never for I Yes. Near misses like we luck saved us from catastrophe, right? And then there were these counterterrorism policies and a lot of those things haven't happened again. So, I'm just curious when you reflect on that time and you think about how you'd keep the country safe from terrorism, how that informs your thinking.

I've always So, I don't know if you remember this story. Some young man in the NSA picked up a word on the telecommunications that said the marriage worked and it just caught him and says, "Nobody says that." And then he starts to unravel this

and where the call was originally made. Now all the smarty pants poo pooed this kid.

Well I said and I not just me but the president myself but you know Biden the well run it down. Turns out they find out he goes to Walmart buys 10 backpacks. He goes to one of those kind of bulk buying you know when you buy stuff at the beauty show. all these giant cases that are essential materials for homemade bombs and then all the smarty pants who thought the kid was out of his mind because he caught the word the marriage worked. That's what you say after 20 years, not in 10 seconds that he was on to something. Then we put we started finding other stuff in his credit card. Then we put helicopters and we find out he's starting to drive

to New York, right? To New York. Yeah. And we had cars to New Jersey. So I I'll never forget that 96 hours. I must have aged and I think the president did too. And we aged although we had confidence we had him in a sense we had him in our sight line of vision but that was um breathtaking and there were other events that you have identified.

This guy named Najibazi who along with two friends was going to blow up the New York City subway. I don't know if you remember, but the FBI got ahead of the police department or No, I think police department. No, the No, the police department moved ahead and classic case of the FBI and local law enforcement not exactly being on the same page. But that said, got him before anything and the imam, it's not clear whether he knew it or was protecting him or was acting like he didn't know him, etc. or what his intent was.

So to me, I haven't, you know, Tommy, I gotta be honest, I hadn't really thought about it in the sense did we did our actions have a reaction that made the situation worse. I do think you have to think about two things. One, people are trying to do harm to the United States. Our our border, specifically on the south, have been used by enemies for their advantage. And you have to be that doesn't Donald Trump pulling people's green cards, not letting kids go to school. That's not the end. That's not crazy. But I haven't thought a lot recently about whether the policies we were pursuing in the quoteunquote in the name of the war on terror both overseas and here actually perpetuated or accentuated because I think actually on one scorecard we haven't really had a local terrorism attack vis kind of a 911 life. Yeah. So at one level from a homeland front it has worked whether it has created its own

uh the terrorist cells just they've there's as many before there just more of them spread out and smaller that just may be what both of those are happening in real time which is we've protected the home front but we've created more threats overseas.

Yeah it's a complicated story. Uh Rahman Emanuel, thank you so much for sitting down. Appreciate it. Great to see you. Could ask you another hour, but

happy and healthy new year and masletos to you and your wife and the young kids.

Thank you. And you haven't aged a bit. Try it.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Rahm Emanuel Gets Brutally Honest on Trump, Democrats and Israel"?

In order: 0:00 Democratic Party, Rahm Emanuel, Ashley Parker, Tommy Vistor; 10:00 Democratic Party; 20:00 Democratic Party; 30:00 Democratic Party, Lebanon; 40:00 Lebanon, Biden Administration, Democratic Party; 50:00 Hezbollah, Planned Parenthood Federation of America; 1:00:00 Hezbollah, Lebanon.

What is mentioned in this Pod Save America episode?

11 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Democratic Party, Lebanon, Rahm Emanuel, AG1, Hezbollah, Tommy Vistor. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Rahm Emanuel Gets Brutally Honest on Trump, Democrats and Israel"?

The episode runs 1 h 11 min; the transcript is about 13,543 words in 187 timestamped sections.

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About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.