Transcript

The Staffer Who Played Trump For Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris

From Pod Save America · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 22 min · 3,957 words · 48 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "The Staffer Who Played Trump For Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris", an episode of Pod Save America published January 2, 2026 (22 min, about 3,957 words). It mentions 6 people, works and ideas, including Donald Trump, Philipe Reinus, Megan Rooney, Hillbilly Elegy, Qriket Media.

What this episode is about

Philippe Reinus, a veteran communications adviser, shares insights from his unique experiences portraying Donald Trump during debate preparations for both Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris. He reflects on the strategic implications of these preparations and the broader context of opposing Trump in political campaigns, providing valuable anecdotes and lessons learned from his time in the political arena.

Key takeaways

  • Playing Trump is like improvisational theater; charm and chaos go hand in hand—even in debate prep!
  • Debate prep isn’t just rehearsing lines; it’s a masterclass in psychological strategy and media manipulation.
  • Hillary Clinton’s irritation with her Trump stand-in speaks volumes: sometimes, opponents are more effective than allies.
  • To prep for Trump, channel your inner feral instincts; understanding bad behavior can be your greatest asset.
  • Being a communications adviser means delivering bad news with a smile; it’s a job that’s part therapy, part boxing match.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Donald Trump, Megan Rooney, Philipe Reinus
  2. – 15:00: Hillbilly Elegy
  3. – 20:00: Donald Trump
  4. – 22:10: Philipe Reinus, Qriket Media

Notable quotes from "The Staffer Who Played Trump For Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris"

  • Excerpt from an interview we did for one of our subscription shows with Phipe Rehest. He is the man who played Donald Trump in debate prep for both Hillary Clinton and Kla…
    about Donald Trump · at
  • Harris. longtime communications adviser and staffer to Hillary Clinton, Philippe Reinus. Welcome.
    about Philipe Reinus · at
  • So, it was Megan Rooney who Megan Rooney is longtime speech writer for not just Hillary, but she worked in the White House for most recently President Biden, for President.
    about Megan Rooney · at
  • His debates, read up on him. I spent, two hours of my life watching Hillbilly Elegy, which is just But it's weird because there are big names, like Amy Adams and Glenn Close. Apparently, they all thought they were it was like a vehicle.
    about Hillbilly Elegy · at
  • Support Qriket Media. Become part of the community. We'd really appreciate it.
    about Qriket Media · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

Books & papers

Companies & orgs

Full transcript with timestamps

Hey everybody, we don't want to leave you high and dry and contentless while we're on break. So please enjoy this excerpt from an interview we did for one of our subscription shows with Phipe Rehest. He is the man who played Donald Trump in debate prep for both Hillary Clinton and Kla Harris. He didn't have to do it with Joe Biden because Joe Biden was like, I got this. I've known Philipe for 20 years. We shared in office when I first worked for Hillary Clinton. and he has a lot of really interesting insights that he gleaned from playing Donald Trump that uh are just great stories, but also uh really helpful for thinking about how we uh continue to uh you know try to beat him.

So here's a preview of that conversation and if you want to hear the full episode and get a lot more great stuff, subscribe to Friends of the Pod at cricut.com/friend. Here's Philipe. Welcome back to Inside 2025. I'm John Love it. When I was 23 years old, I was inexplicably and incorrectly hired to be a speech writer for Hillary Clinton. And I shared an office uh with who at the time to me was a grizzled veteran, but who was just a young man who barely spoke or made eye contact with me. He is long time he is a longtime adviser to Hillary Clinton. He also has a legendary role in two uh debate prep uh seasons. He played Donald Trump with both Hillary Clinton and Kla Harris. Uh longtime communications adviser and staffer to Hillary Clinton, Philippe Reinus. Welcome.

Hi, Jonathan. Love it. How are you? Good to see you. I want to talk about debate prep, which is the ostensible reason we're here. But first, I want to talk about your first impression of me.

Well, I didn't think I didn't It might have been inexplicable, but it it quickly became clear that it was correct. I mean, you

were talented. you had um your work ethic was similar to mine, which people can take of that what they want. Uh whether it was high or low. Um we sat in a room with six people and we probably had we were not type A's. We were probably more in the lower end of productivity.

So I think we had kindered spirits on that. I could see your screen because of the way we sat.

Mhm. Um but no, you fit right in. You You really didn't talk to me for like six months. You do know that, right? Like there were six of us in that room and you barely you had the corner.

I'm surprised it was only 6 months. That's short. Uh, all right. So, let's talk about debate prep. How did it come to be your job to play Trump with Hillary? Who thought that was a good idea?

So, it was Megan Rooney who you know, uh, Megan Rooney is longtime speech writer for not just Hillary, but she worked in the White House for most recently President Biden, for President Obama, some for Mrs. Obama. She's, you know, everyone of name in the last 10 years, 15 years. And she at some point early 2016 said, "You know what you should do? You'd be good for to play Trump in debate prep." And I said, "You know what? That wouldn't You're not crazy." And she said, "You've been practicing your for you've been p practicing for this your whole life. You just didn't know it." Um, which was, you know, accurate, but backhanded.

Why? Why? Why did that mean? Why? What? Why have you That I had just had a Trump in me that had hadn't been released yet.

But I see this is the thing that's so interesting. Like I agree with that, but I don't know why. Like what is it you there's something you're not like Trump at all interpersonally, but there is something about you like a feral understanding of media. There's something there's something there's a brokenness to you that explains why you're naturally suited to Trump. So what is it? So, the closest I've ever come is someone said that they thought I had eye detect uh aspects. Usually, it's meant as it's associated with um photographic memory.

That's not what it is, but it also can often be you're able to assume the perspective of someone no matter how horrible it is, like a FBI criminal behaviorist kind of thing. I think there's a little bit of that. Um, but you know, I wouldn't be as good playing Mitt Romney,

right? I couldn't I couldn't pretend to be a a policy guy. There is something about And the reason why it made so much sense with Hillary is because she was just innately bothered by my presence no matter

the circumstance. So, I I really just had to show up and she would already be irked.

That is true. There is something about you that that that you're so you're indispensable and yet your presence does irritate her. That's such an interesting part of your dynamic over a long time was true when I was was there. You also kind have I think there's something about the way in which you understand have a love for kind of tabloid media and also you like kind of you appreciate and loathe journalism at the same time just from having been a communications person for a long time. Like there there and you're a creature of New York media too. Like there is there is a way in which you were prepping for this.

Yeah. I mean I don't think anyone likes their press person cuz it's not like you walk in and said, "Oh, I have a dozen roses to deliver to you." It's, you know, you come in and you're like, "Oh, someone saw that you didn't leave a tip on a bill." It's never good news. Um, plus I at times enjoy, you know, kind of needling her. um being irreferent which you know you're not paid much on the hill so you need to get your entertainment where you can but yeah um you know you you you are used to it's it's an adversarial job um you find yourself if not yelling then yelling at Jason and that's not too far from what Trump was in 2015

so talk about prep like what are you doing both to know what he'd say and to kind of inhabit the

so it was a little different. So in 2015 um if you remember he actually participated in the primary debates.

Mhm. And there were I think 12 of them he went to 11 once he boycotted. I don't remember why. So there was a tremendous amount of material to watch. I watched each one three times. Once just watched the whole thing. Second time I watched just him whether it was him speaking or him being spoken to. And the third time I did it with the microphone with the uh audio off just to watch you know the justiculations and the facial features. And it was a treasure trove and it was you know the first thing that stood out and I think it it even 10 years later stands out uh is that his language was very unique. you know, you watch him and obviously he's not exactly a thespian, [snorts] but because he says something so plainly or or however you want to describe it there, it came across as honesty. If if you look at word clouds from 2016, the two that people walked away from describing Trump more than anything were honesty and strength. And

obviously, he's the world's biggest liar. But the honesty came from just speaking plainly. And when you're on stage with nine people and almost all of them are either sitting public figures in the Senate or governors or past, they all have that they all have that stilted speech. So, you know, they would say the the moderator would say, "Mr. Trump, going to start with you. Why did you say this crazy thing yesterday?" And he would say, "It wasn't crazy. I'm 100% right. You know what? I I I could have even said it worse." They would say, ' Okay, Mr. Trump, we now go to Senator Rubio. Senator Rubio, tell us about your plan for immigration. Well, I want to thank the University of Wisconsin for having us here. I love cheese. You know, go Badgers. Um, I sponsored S2907 with 74, you know, the whole And the moderates say, "Well, Mr. Trump, what do you say?" Because I don't know what he just said. I'm going to build a wall.

I'm going to build a wall 30 ft. You know, okay, you don't like that 50 ft. Going to make it 50 feet. And it you laugh at it, but it's damn straight and it's damn honest. You could call it straight talking. It might be stupid talking, but it's also straight talking. And people who, you know, we work for people who are trained to think before they speak, and that became a liability.

So, uh, one aspect of prep that I don't know that you've talked about is the role McDonald's played.

I went a little overboard. I didn't do it as much. Well, actually in 2015, I think I was already pretty overweight. So, you know, he's 6'3. God knows how many hundreds of pounds. I bought two and 3/4 in lift shoes, which is the highest I could find, and then a platform. I couldn't do the hair. Last year, I was skinnier and I went on a McDonald's binge. It was really just an excuse to have McDonald's, but it became like superersized me. I would in the months leading up to it just three four nights a week have you know two Big Macs, a shake, large fries and I put on I think 34 pounds.

Oh my god, it's like raging bull. And um I went a little I went really heavy on the makeup this time. The hair I talked to Lupe, the woman who's done my hair for 20 years. She said if you get a wig, she said we can't change your color hair. It'll be permanent. it'll be screwed up. If you get a wig, like a professional wig, I can color it, but even that won't be great. It just clear that it would be too too SNLish. But from the forehead down, it was pretty accurate. I dug up my my Trump watch, my Trump cufflings. Um I had given after 2016, I put him in all those one of those bags, you know, you you pull the air out and everything flates down to this.

I had given that to Ron Clay to use in 2020 if they wanted. And then I got it back from Ron uh and everything, you know, still fit.

Why do you think they didn't call on you to do debate prep in 2020? It's because they knew he would knock it out of the park.

I think uh co and um Bob Bower played I believe who had known him forever was his lawyer. Look, it's an incredibly uh intimate is not the right word, but it's incredibly intimate. You're seeing people at their worst. You're hearing them at their most honest to staff and to each other. I thought it was a real um credit to Vice President Harris that she was up for it. Although, when I when she brought me in, it was when she was the VP candidate, so I was supposed to be Vance. Um

Oh, I didn't realize that. So, you had been brought in to play Vance with Kamla and then you just transitioned seamlessly into playing Trump. Uh, did you ever do any Vance prep or did it ever came to it?

Yeah, I spent about two weeks, watched his debates, read up on him. I spent, you know, two hours of my life watching Hillbilly Elegy, which is just But it's weird because there are big names, you know, like Amy Adams and Glenn Close. Apparently, they all thought they were it was like a vehicle to the Oscars. Um, I was I was halfway writing a memo about my first impressions when Rohini I can never get her last name right. Rohini IM me that Biden had just dropped. I was like "Okay I'm done with that memo."

I want to understand the difference between 2016 and 2024. Obviously, Kla Harris is not Hillary Clinton and Trump in 2024 is not the same as Trump in 2016. I want to talk about both. What's the difference between preparing Hillary Clinton uh for a debate and preparing Kla Harris for a debate? you know, as it turns out, much less than I would have thought. Um, they they both take it really took it really seriously. They both put in the time and the hours. They both took the criticism. Well, I mean, it is an uncomfortably annoying situation to have people that you pay telling you that everything you just said and everything the way you just said it is terrible and supposed to keep smiling about it. It's a time suck. And it's not like they take you off the road. You still have to go do fundraisers, you still have to go do rallies, you still do interviews. So, I think they were pretty serious and and

they were both serious in that I mean Hillary Trump had never debated one-on-one. So, there was a lot of sort of guessing about what that would entail. Um, Hillary never took him for granted. She saw the power of her message from the first day. the very first day we did like a 15minute batting practice about uh the economy and she did you know my budget has been scored by the CBO and it's going to save 1.9 trillion and then I went and I was like um well you know I mean Lawrence Klo I mean everyone knows Kudlo says I got the best budget in the world and then on immigration it would be you know I got Sheriff Joe I mean if you got Sheriff Joe you got the best and she you know we stopped and she sat down and she said, "It's so smart." No, no one knows who Larry Cuddlo is, but he's telling them he's naming someone. And I I think that's just a very hard retooling you have to do when you're a US senator, a

governor, whatever it is, when you are talking turkey to suddenly play that game. It is a very challenging, but but neither of them thought it was easy. But he's also the most predictable human being on God's green earth. So you can easily plot it out like so one example is people will say how long before Trump loses his and I'll say when do you want him to lose his You're you're a participant. You're not just a a spectator. you know, uh, President Biden made him lose his in minute 80 about the golf the inane golf exchange about their golf scores.

Now, Biden could have done that at minute 10 and gotten the same response. And I'm not saying that was a smart exchange, but the point is that you're not watching him. You can, he's an amoeba. He's just a single cell entity that is looking for food, for nourishment, and you can easily reroute him. In 107 days, Kamla talks about the moment right before the debate where you let your guard down as Trump and kind of it's a it's a pep talk basically because you've been prepping so much. Everybody feels like one more session won't get you much because everybody understood going into the debate that the mentality really matters that it matters that you're in a good headsp space. And then we learn from that book that moments before the debate, Joe Biden calls ostensibly to wish her good luck, but then ends up in a distracting her with talk about people in Philadelphia hearing she's bad mouthing him and kind

of distracting her. Did you know that call happened? I did not know it at the time. I think I knew it sometime in the weeks after. Um, obviously it was poorly poorly timed. Um, but she did great. So, I I don't think it knocked her off of her game. Um, I'd like to think that my pep talk and really the whole session, you know, that Karen Dunn ran was exactly what was needed. You know, it was batting practice. It wasn't we weren't throwing pitches at her head. Um, at that point, it is what it is. And it's just it's just hard debating him. I mean, when I sparred, when I did with Hillary, I think maybe 11 times for 90 minutes and probably, you know, six or seven times with Kamla, I would walk away thinking I just I just beat them like a drum. And I don't think Hillary would would debate that. There were one once or twice, I think net neta got the better of me because she was she knew exactly how to needle, you know, thread

the needle. Um, [clears throat] look, to their credit, if you remember, they challenged Trump to more debates before the de debate was even started.

So, you're part of these two sets of of prep sessions, these two campaigns. Uh, it's obviously an important part of your life and like this sort of a milestone in your life. I think largely we view those debates as having been ones in which uh both Hillary and Kamla kind of did what they needed to do. They won those debates. They came in and they kind of held their own and and came away stronger and yet we lost both elections. Uh and Trump didn't prepare nearly as hard uh as either of our candidates did. Like what? It's so discouraging. Like what do you take away from that?

You'll never hear anyone again say do debates matter? because clearly a bad debate does matter. And um people who have had bad moments in debates have lost. Um people who have had bad moments have have won. Not really. I think Trump got beat at least two out of the three times against Hillary. One of them was just ugly. I'd call it, you know, TKO.

Yeah. Um Kamla beat him like a drum. I went back and I watched both Biden debates from 2020. Trump was just angry and he was really debating CO at the time more than anything. CO is the only fact checker that has ever been successful with him. He couldn't tell us something that wasn't true. It's co was too obvious. So it was like telling us it's it's February.

Well, I think maybe then right now though he's having inflation is now he can't he can't fact check people's experience. He can't he people's experience can finally fact check him.

You're 100% right. I think it's the only two times he has been fact checked by some external. It's not that people fact check him. It's not Glen, you know, Kesler. It's not Nate Conn. It's not anyone on CNN. It's just reality. you can't tell people any more than Biden could.

And and what last question, like what lessons are there for us as we're trying to figure out how to kind of outflank him, gain attention, get him on his heels, like whether you're in

you know, I I hate to be I think Donald Trump is doing what Donald Trump does best, which is what he did in 2017 to 2019, which is sabotage himself. Now, that doesn't argue for us to just sit on our hands and hope that that happens again, but we do in some sense have to get out of his way. You know, if you're the bit about if your if your enemy is in a hole, stop digging. He should. And I there's that. There's I think there's also I mean I guess what I'm answering is more like psyche management than anything else. He's not succeeding in the way that he is Democrats fear. He obviously he has deported people. He and I'm not belittling that, but the courts have caught up with him on a lot of things. He has not been able to fire people as much as he could have. And look, you and I have worked in the government. You know, you can cut 40% right there. Um, nothing he's doing is as effective as

how it seems because how it seems is him saying that things are great. You know, Sleepy Joe couldn't deport anyone. We're deporting more than anyone. That's just not true. Um, the government, you know, the economy is A++++. I mean, he could add as many plus signs as he wants. That's just not the case. I think there's no magic bullet with him. Um I do think the handling of the of the budget giving into him twice was probably not the best idea. Um because he would have been blamed for it. I mean I don't think that that's such a great hard thing to say. Um and frankly Democrats should just listen to him less because he's just so he raises your blood pressure. He's so antagonistic adversarial belligerent, bluster. You know, if you want to know what he says, read the transcript or read an article about it.

But if you watch him, you're just going to get upset. Um, I think not take him too seriously. You know, he's going to start with the 2028 stuff hardcore. Not now. He does it to needle Democrats.

Mhm. And they make the hats and all that. He's going to do it because he's going to be lame ducked. And he's seeing it with the Epstein stuff. He's seeing it in little ways. Obviously, it's not as terrible as build, but there are fissures. Um, and I think it's important that Dems not lose sight of what he's getting killed on. He's

the way the ways he's weak. The ways he's weak. He's going to do bluster, but he's he's weaker than he seems.

He's he's vulnerable. I would not want to be a Republican running for Congress this year. And as long as we don't become I mean, as long as we avoid being the greater of two evils, which apparently is what we were in 2024, [clears throat] we can do really well.

Philippe Reinus, so good to see you. Good to talk to you. You too. Thank you all for listening. If you want to hear the full episode with Phipe and get a lot more great content, add free shows and more, please sign up for Friends of the Pod at cricut.com/friend. Support Qriket Media. Become part of the community. We'd really appreciate it. And we'll be back with new episodes of Pods America next week.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "The Staffer Who Played Trump For Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris"?

John Lovett (Host), Philippe Reinus (Guest).

What is "The Staffer Who Played Trump For Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris" about?

Philippe Reinus, a veteran communications adviser, shares insights from his unique experiences portraying Donald Trump during debate preparations for both Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris. He reflects on the strategic implications of these preparations and the broader context of opposing Trump in political campaigns, providing valuable anecdotes and lessons learned from his time in the…

What is mentioned in this Pod Save America episode?

6 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Donald Trump, Philipe Reinus, Megan Rooney, Hillbilly Elegy, Qriket Media, Philippe Rehest. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The Staffer Who Played Trump For Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris"?

The episode runs 22 min; the transcript is about 3,957 words in 48 timestamped sections.

More from Pod Save America

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.