Transcript

Wagner Moura SLAMS Trump Over ICE and the Epstein Files

From Pod Save America · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 5 min · 11,990 words · 174 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Wagner Moura SLAMS Trump Over ICE and the Epstein Files", an episode of Pod Save America published February 15, 2026 (1 h 5 min, about 11,990 words). It mentions 9 people, works and ideas, including Vagner Mora, ICE, Academy Awards, Narcos, Pablo Escobar.

What this episode is about

Wagner Moura discusses the parallels between Brazil's past dictatorship and contemporary political issues in the United States, particularly focusing on the erosion of freedoms and the targeting of dissent. He emphasizes the role of artists in resisting tyranny and reflects on the impact of his film "The Secret Agent," which sheds light on a significant period in Brazilian history.

Key takeaways

  • Art often mirrors reality, highlighting society's darkest periods—past and present—like Brazil's dictatorship and America's political climate.
  • The challenge of embodying historical figures is multifaceted; it's not just acting, it's confronting uncomfortable truths.
  • Censorship is a timeless struggle—artists today must navigate not just government oppression but corporate and institutional complicity.
  • Parenthood is a comedy of errors; often we love our kids more when they're 'exploring' outside the house.
  • Art's timing is uncanny—what was once relevant can resonate anew, proving films are time machines of cultural commentary.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Academy Awards, Vagner Mora, Narcos, Pablo Escobar
  2. – 20:00: ICE
  3. – 30:00: Gratza, Simply Safe Home Security
  4. – 40:00: Academy Awards, Narcos, Pablo Escobar
  5. – 50:00: Armor Colostrum, Pablo Escobar, Narcos
  6. – 1:00:00: Policy Genius, Armor Colostrum
  7. – 1:05:14: Academy Awards, Narcos

Notable quotes from "Wagner Moura SLAMS Trump Over ICE and the Epstein Files"

  • America, but also host of Runaway Country. This week, we have a really special interview. I'm talking to Vagner Mora, who you may recognize from his turn playing Pablo Escobar…
    about Vagner Mora · at
  • Service among home security providers both by Newsweek and USA Today. And right now, our listeners get 50% off their new Simplysafe system with professional monitoring and their first month free at simplysafe.com/crooked.
    about Simply Safe Home Security · at
  • There you go. You'll get 10% off your first order of any olive oil on their site, but I would recommend the Gratza Duo. You'll receive two bottles of extra virgin olive oil.
    about Gratza · at
  • Side you know when they're threatening to you know arrest and hang for treason US senators when they're going after the fourth estate and when they're terrorizing communities…
    about ICE · at
  • When I did Narcos and I was living in Colombia and Bogotaa back in the 80s was the most dangerous city in the world because of the bombs Pablo Escobar was putting on the streets and.
    about Pablo Escobar · at
  • Was really struck by this quote when you after Narcos, a series I absolutely loved so much. Again, it's like I know every journalist does this in these interviews with you, so…
    about Narcos · at
  • Regeneration for fast recovery. We've worked out a special offer for our audience. Receive 30% off your first subscription order. Go to armra.com/crooked or enter crooked to…
    about Armor Colostrum · at
  • Found the best policy fit for their needs. Plan the year knowing you've protected what you've built. With Policy Genius, you can find 20-year life insurance policies starting…
    about Policy Genius · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Vagner Mora — Person · Main guest · 2 mentions · first at
    Primary interview subject discussing his film work (including playing Pablo Escobar) and drawing parallels between Brazil’s dictatorship era and contemporary authoritarian trends, especially around ICE and civic resistance.
  • Pablo Escobar — Person · Referenced figure (portrayed role) · 4 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as a well-known character Moura portrayed in Narcos; used to contextualize his fame and his desire not to be typecast as a ‘Latin bad guy.’

Companies & orgs

  • ICE — Company · Political entity · 1 mention · first at
    ICE is discussed in the context of political resistance and its actions in Minneapolis.

Places & events

  • Academy Awards — Event · Key event · 6 mentions · first at
    The Academy Awards are mentioned as the context for the nomination of 'The Secret Agent' and Vagner Mora.
    Mora, who you may recognize from his turn playing Pablo Escobar in Narcos, which was amazing. But he is nominated for best actor at the Academy Awards.

Media & podcasts

  • Narcos — Media · Referenced work · 4 mentions · first at
    Narcos is mentioned as a significant work in Vagner Mora's career, where he played Pablo Escobar.

Sponsors

  • Gratza — Product · Sponsor · 4 mentions · first at
    Gratza is mentioned as a sponsor of the podcast, promoting their olive oil products.
  • Armor Colostrum — Product · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at
    Armor Colostrum is mentioned as a sponsor of the podcast, promoting their health supplements.
  • Policy Genius — Product · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at
    Policy Genius is mentioned as a sponsor of the podcast, promoting their insurance services.
  • Simply Safe Home Security — Product · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at
    Simply Safe Home Security is mentioned as a sponsor of the podcast.

Full transcript with timestamps

I'm nominated for an Academy Award, but if I see ice people on the street, right,

I've been asking myself, what would I do? What would you do? I don't know. Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Alex Wagner, sometimes host of Pod Save America, but also host of Runaway Country. This week, we have a really special interview. I'm talking to Vagner Mora, who you may recognize from his turn playing Pablo Escobar in Narcos, which was amazing. But he is nominated for best actor at the Academy Awards. The picture he is in, The Secret Agent, is also nominated for best picture and it is an incredible film which you should all see if you haven't already.

And what brings us together today is be is the talk of dictatorship because The Secret Agent focuses a lot on a period of Brazil's history when dictatorship was the order of the day. And the film is set in the 1970s. And what you will notice in that film is the eerie echoes with the society we are living in today. It's not quite as overt, but certainly the freedoms that are being infringed upon, the targeting of perceived enemies, all of it has a real echo with some of the stuff we're dealing with today here in America. And Vagnera is an incredible actor, but also a real deep thinker about politics both here and in his home country and sort of what this moment means for artists and people who are keen to resist tyranny. So, it's a really good conversation. I hope you check it out. Uh, this is Vagner Mora and me, Alex Vagner, talking in politics. Take a listen. I did not believe this could happen and I am so

thrilled to have Vagner Mora on Pod Save America Sunday show. This is a real delight. I am a big fan of your work, which is I know what everybody says to you when these things start, but I really mean it and you obviously have the best name in Hollywood.

Oh, thank you so much. No, thanks for having me. It's a pleasure. I I was looking forward to doing this.

Really? You've been doing so much. I can't believe you really wanted to do an hourong interview with me, but I'll take it.

I know. Totally. Because, you know, we it's I think it's going to be a different one this one.

Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely going to be a different one. And I'm looking forward to doing something about you.

Oh, I was gutted by the movie. I was gutted by it. I did not all There's so many scenes. I'm not g I'm really going to try and not give spoilers, but there's so many levels. It's gutting on a personal level where it's like the relationship between father and son. I have two boys

who are there's six and eight. You have three boys, right? Yeah. I miss that age.

Oh, no you don't. No. No. Trust me, you got it's interest because you know each age is a different challenge, but it's also a different kind of uh I I see I see photos of them when they were six and eight. I was like, "Oh my god,

I hate my kids." So, I hate them. I mean, I I really was like, I think boarding school is a great today. I was like, it's the day. It's the This is They finally pushed me out again. They actually stormed out of the house like 15 minutes ago in my like winter clothing with a pack of Girl Scout cookies and some Gatorade and they were like, "We're leaving. We're done here." And I was like, "Goodbye.

Goodbye." And they will come back. Yeah. Calorically, I don't think that's going to be enough, but it might be. Bon. So great

to watch that movie which is about a very specific and dark period in Brazil's history. Uh the military dictatorship that ran from I think 64 to 85.

Yeah. Not the end of strong men leading Brazil by any stretch of the imagination. But it's a a really perilous time for anybody who dares to think freely or has inclinations and impulses towards democratic uh systems. It's chilling. What year did you start filming this? We shot this in 24. I'm so bad with these dates, but yeah.

Really? Okay. So, so four. Yeah. So, it was That's exactly right. Like June. Yeah. July 20 24, I think.

I mean, okay. So, let's talk about this a little bit. You've you've characterized that in previous interviews. You've characterized that period as a civil military dictatorship. Oh my god. I'm so sorry. Hold on. For that's them calling me from upstairs.

Yeah, because this they they ran away. Now they're calling you. I'll be right back. This is so unprofessional.

I have three kids. I totally get it. Okay. So, you've characterized this period in Brazil's history as a civil military dictatorship because there was a political organization, but also elites and civilian institutions were complicit in all of this. And I kind of wonder as you think about that period and you look at the period we are living through right now here in the United States where you live and you see the capitulation of law firms and universities and to some degree private business or at least the wealthiest among us. Do how do you sort of reconcile the movie that you made and the reality in which you live? It's interesting because this I love this about films because films are always like an encounter between what an artist wants to say with a very partic because we shot the film in 2024.

Uh we could have this could have been shot like in 23. Sometimes films they you know take they take time to to be released. So when we release a film, it's the encounter of that will that thing that an artist wanted to say it two years, three years, four years ago with the present. Uh and I always think that this is an interesting thing. For example, I I directed a film called Marella, right?

Was a about the freedom fighter in Brazil, a real character. And I had to release the film under Bonado's government, which was crazy. Like to release a film about a guy who was fighting against the dictatorship under the government of a man who praised the dictatorship and censored my film. So it's interesting to see that. Now, for example, I I love the fact that the film is that The Secret Agent is being released in Brazil now under Lula, which is a very democratic

different guy. A very different guy. I mean, I I'm a I I mean, it's hard to say these things with with politicians, but I'm I'm a fan. I think Lula is a fantastic character of of of Brazilian history. And uh but also Exactly. And now to see the film being released in Europe and in in different countries of Europe like in Spain. It's interesting the discussions about how Franco's name is coming back to young people, you know, as if like maybe there was this strong president back then that was doing so. And here in the US, of course, with the with the uh uh it's it's interesting because when you do the Q&As's, for example, when you talk to journalists,

you end up learning a lot about the film that you did or like having insights about I I've been learning about the secret agent just by listening to American audiences for example, like kind of questions that they do. Uh so yeah, of course. And and that's how it was supposed to to this supposed to be, right? this parallels, disconnections with with the present with what what's going on right now?

Obviously, you were thinking about Brazil when you made the film, but were you thinking about the United States? I mean, was that something you you conceived of? You you filmed it in 2024 before Trump had won, so obviously things could have been really quite different once the film was released, but we are where we are. I mean, did you did you think about our flirtation with and now outright embrace of autocracy? Yeah, this I think the the idea of of strong governments of strong men there is I think there is an idea of masculinity

going on in the world right now you know that and and that was how it was back then with with with u with pinoch and shile with uh with Hitler with with uh uh you know uh this the idea of the the macho man that's going solv the problem. I was very impressed when I saw the thing that really of course it was was when Alex Pratti was killed by by by eyes uh uh in Minneapolis. Of course that image was so horrible and so strong. But while I was watching it, what I could my brain was like I could see two different kind of mas of masculinity

very clear to me like there was a man that put his body in front of a a woman or or or a person that that needed his help trying to protect her. And then there was this other man, there were pure rage and brutality and uh and you could see I mean it's maybe it's just in my nature but I could go and look at these men and go like and kind of see all the fragility

that they carried with them you know all the issues that these men were carrying

with them in order to do what they did to that other human to to the other human beings. Uh, so yeah. So I'm maybe I'm I'm I'm traveling like but I think that there we are living in a moment where there is a big thing about masculinity.

Yeah. And that's in the movie too. I mean there are these moments where it's like your name's Bobby. What kind of name is Bobby? Of course they say it so lyrically and malefluously in Portuguese but you know and it's like this is the 70s and it's like what the Bobby's a pretty masculine name as far as I know. But but this constant battle we seem to have through the ages at least in modern society around what makes a man and so much of politics is driven by that and in I'm sure as an actor it's something you as a man must confront in the roles that you play too right this like war these waring ideas about what makes a man and how I mean I don't like how how much time do we have to spend talking about men in the in the world right but it is so determinate in in terms of like society and social outcomes.

Yeah. And and we both have sons, right, Alex? A lot of them. Two too many. One would argue.

It's five. It's five. Just just between us. Five between the two of us. What What kind of values uh we we we are passing along to our sons. Can I interrupt you for a second because you mentioned Alex Prey and you've talked about uh Renee Nicole Good and Alex Prey

as being kind of similar to the character you play in terms of outcome and and um I I guess tragedy. Can you talk a little bit more about that for I and I don't want to I don't want to ruin any endings, but I I just wonder how you see a kinship between, you know, the person that you play in this movie that's set in 1977 and what happened on the streets of Minneapolis in the year 2026.

It's about values, I think, you know, and what kind of values you you pass along to to to the new generations because Secret Agent is a film about generational trauma.

Mhm. I like and and how you know these things can be passed along in in in within an entire country. Uh uh uh Brazil suffered of uh of generational trauma. I think throughout our entire history in in 79 you mentioned that the dictatorship ended in ' 85. In 79 we had a law called the amnesty law that basically forgave torturers and killers and that it's like the detectctor should forgiven it themselves like it forgave all torturers and killers and people that did despicable things

here we call it a blanket pardon and everybody should be expecting more of those when Trump is on his way out of office. Bonaru himself would never have been possible I think as a president if it wasn't because of that law you know that affected the memory of of of of an entire country that was like that there are young people in Brazil like that didn't even know that there was a dictatorship in the in the country or people would go like oh maybe it wasn't that bad going back to the to the first convers when we were talking about uh um the timer film is released it's also interesting that Brazil This film is being released in Brazil in a moment where finally Brazil is sort of getting even with its memory when we sent Bonado to jail. We send military people that attempted against democracy in Brazil to jail. Uh uh and I think that just to try to put it put it all together. I think it has to do and I said when I won the

Golden Globes uh that if if if trauma can can be passed along generations values can too.

That's so important. Right. Exactly. And I think it it comes to how are we educating our kids and how the society how are the crisis of information that that we are going through in societ. The alignment of the attack oligarchs with the power that's the thing that scares me a lot in the US because I only kind of started to realize that recently. I'm not an internet guy. I'm not on social medias. from but I only understood the alignment of uh of of you know Facebook or whatever this this inst these guys with the far right with the right and with the republics and with and with the power in the way that they are now and they they all have they have a project themselves uh and I didn't know that because back then uh I guess like 10 10 years ago technology and social medias these things were were kind of like a world to be explored even for progressive uh ideas, right? How how can we connect?

How can we share ideas? How can the world be connected? And I think that this just this idea just disappeared in my mind. It's very clear to me right now that this is uh um uh the disalignment uh uh is uh is what it is, you know.

Yeah. It's uh and it's going they're going to get increasingly powerful as artificial intelligence becomes more of our everyday reality, right? It's the the the world is going to be in the hands of tech billionaires who've proven in this hour that they have no moral code, which is a terrifying thing.

It's a terrifying thing. I do want to get I mean I I want to go I want to go to the the ideas of Rene Nicole Good and Alex Prey because you made this film in 2024 and then these two people were murdered on video in in Minneapolis in 2026. And I know you've said you feel there's a throughine between what happens and what happened to people in Brazil and what happens to your character in the secret agent and what is happening to Americans like Prey and Good in this day and age. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Listen, authoritarianism is uh I'm not an expert of in that field, but I lived in a country that had uh not not only one dictatorship, but some we had we we our history is full of coupetatas and and authoritarianism and violence and and other other beautiful things too. But this is a a reality in Brazil. Bosonado is a is a manifestation of these uh forces that that are part of what our

country um really is. And what I understood or what I I understand about this especially when we were under the government of a of a of a fascist a president is that and also to going back to the books and reading about you know authoritarian regimes is that there must be resistance we civilian resistance

you know and I'm not talking about guerilla fighters or like armed resistance or anything like that, but civil disobedience and and and like basically what people in Minneapolis were doing, you know, and look what they what what

what they got. We're recording this on the day that Tom Hman, who was brought in to take the reigns from the psychopath Greg Pavino and Christy Gnome, is is announcing they're going to withdraw ICE agents. Operation Metro Surge is going to be wound down, which is a testament to the bravery and the tenacity and the organization of these moms and dads and neighbors in Minneapolis.

Exactly. And that's exactly that's the perfect example. You know, I think that this is what has to be done. just sometimes just record something or blow a whistle or or like it's something that that shows to a wannabe authoritarian or a one or an authoritarian government that he they will face some sort of resistance otherwise they just roll over and it's real fast that's the only thing that I can say uh uh uh yeah for the experience of of living in a country with with that kind of where that kind of thing happened uh many many times I and we and we almost had that like in a very we kind of had it with Bosonado but if he had a second term the way Trump is having because we all know that the second terms are that's when they they go because it's it's basically the population saying we saw what you did we liked it go for it you know so this is this is a very important moment I think for for that kind of resistance

the other thing that strikes me in terms of parallels is the the the main character that you play in the movie. Part of the struggle is getting at the truth of what happened to him and what what what his life was like and who he actually was his character.

Yeah. And I would one of the most revoling parts of both the N Renee Nicole Good Death and Alex Prey was the swiftness with which the federal government decided to destroy their humanity and their memory and their legacy and just how unhidden that that just it was all happening in plain sight. You know, it was like we're going to deny the facts of what happened on the ground, but we're also going to call these people domestic terrorists.

Yeah. that I think for a lot of Americans seeing that happen was a real wakeup call and I wonder if you can talk a little bit about how how to fight against that right like there's a desire to forget the bad stuff there's also desire to look away but it's the part of the thing is to keep looking and keep asking questions

yeah there are things that cannot be forgotten things that cannot be for you know forgiven and and uh I saw saw the other day Donald Trump saying like we have to go over we have to move on the absent and I was like and and I go like that is dangerous you know there are things that you cannot uh uh absolutely forget I when I when I said that I I've been learning a lot about the film that I did talking to people like it's like recently in one of those Q&As I was answering a question about how my what happened to my character and how it how it ended up for him. And I realized one thing that I hadn't thought about the film that this is also a film about infamy and exactly what you what you said like when when you kill someone twice, you know, because you kill you kill the person and then you kill the the their reputation.

and and and and and that's so cruel and that's typical of this kind of uh of of regime. I've been saying this, Alex, and I don't want to repeat myself, but I the thing that scares me, it really scares me. And when we're talking about the the alignment of the ol oligarchs with with the power is that and the and the decadence of journalism, the Washington Post just firing people. This this this is the thing that concerns me. the idea that the truth is over or the po post or whatever scholars call it.

Yeah. That we have shared realities. It's shared realities. You know, we don't we we are not living in the same mental space. You know, we are not like it's not that everybody that voted for Trump or voted for Band. They are not like bad people like some of them are but but lots of these people are just people that are living in another reality. They have yeah they think the world is operating in a different fashion

and this was something that was always it's it's a thing for the far right they have always done that but with the technology now with the fact that I can you can have a video this right now could be me speaking it's me it's my face it's my voice and it's not me and for me I'm almost 50 this is crazy you know I I it's it's it's the idea that like like you said like I they can say it's just that the resistance done just that kind of thing doesn't allow them to go that far with the lies against Renee Good Alex Pat because there are people here to say like this is not true you know but it's becoming more and more common to that these kind of things are going to be taken as the truth

well that people feel they're being manipulated by technology and that the real truth is not the truth that challenges their assumptions about about the world. I mean that's the thing is people just want information, data, stories, narrators who confirm that the way they think and see things is the right way and anything that disrupts that is rejected as false or or part of uh you know um like some kind of conspiracy and that is not good.

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That's why we do what we do. I think have you been I mean has it you live in Los Angeles.

Mhm. And we're at a moment when this president is trying to kick out people who are legally here, people that are inconvenient for him, people especially who are from Central and South America. I mean, have you felt any particular peril going out there and being openly political about this and being outwardly critical of certain administrations?

Yeah, it's I've been always I've been always very vocal, right? Like in in in in Brazil especially.

Yeah. And Psaro, you were on his radar. Oh yeah. I I it was it wasn't easy. It was it was because you know in order to be vocal you have to be also like willing to to face the backlash, right? That's why I'm against when people go oh people you have to go out you have to speak up. There are some people that are not ready to do that and they shouldn't because the backlash is really uh uh strong.

Have you worried at all about repercussions? No. because I I it would be worse for me to

not say something but this is how I am that again this is me you know this shouldn't value this is this this shouldn't be the thing for everybody for me I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I if if I knew something if I had something that I that I that I knew I I would say and people would listen to me and I would do it I wouldn't do it because I was afraid of something or because someone is paying me you know because I have an economical a financial interest that would destroy again talking about values. How can I tell my kids to be honest and to be, you know, to be to be themselves and to stick with the values that they have if I don't do that,

right? Uh uh so no, I'm not of course it's some it's I've been the again the world is totally polarized, right? So when I say something, especially in Brazil, when I say something like half of the country, I guess, go like, "That's nice. That's cool." And the other half is like,

"Yeah." Are do you get Like, do do people give you a hard time in Brazil? Oh my god.

Like, what do they do? Do they do they come up to you? Do what do they say? Glad that I don't have social medias because it's uh it's I you know, it's hardcore. Yeah. I've when I when I did that my film Miguela and and that was under Bosonado's government we received many death threats and in some when we were releasing the film we had to have metal detaches at the door. Yeah. I've been like when I was on the street because I go out and was in some I had to be really pay attention where I was and who I was talking to.

So you decided to follow that up with this film. Like if I were your wife I'd be like how about an animation? How about How about a Pixar film, honey?

I I would love Want to be the voice of a crab? How about that? I was I was actually visiting Pixar Studios yesterday.

Yeah. Yeah, you were. That's that's what I should be doing. But yeah, but but but but I think it's uh it's Yeah, this is this is how I function, I think, as a as a as a person.

Well, I mean, hats off to you and I wish there were more people. I honestly think you know we are living in times and I say this as an American who has lived largely a life of privilege in a very free society as a journalist but it is really feels like it's time to pick a side you know when they're threatening to you know arrest and hang for treason US senators when they're going after the fourth estate and when they're terrorizing communities of color in American cities just by virtue of disagreement. It's like this is the hour. This is the hour to say something and I think

I think so. Yeah, you know, Hollywood is one thing, but if you have a pulpit, if you have a voice, why not use it? I mean, I do want to ask though because I say this and you're in Hollywood, it's another sunny day. You were at Pixar Studios. I was in Hungary uh early last year trying to get a sense of what it was like to live in an autocracy. And and one of the things as an American, I didn't fully under I did not grasp the lived experience of being in Brazil in the late 70s, right? I think most Americans because we're largely ignorant about world history think of Brazil as like carnival and likeas and whatever. This the movie takes place during carnival which I thought was really interesting but they think of Brazil as

oh which is happening right now. Well I mean the Lenton season right? Oh my god, that's so true.

So, but just talk to me a little bit about how, you know, we I I do feel like autocracies now are they're not like the goologs of yester year. They're like the like Hungary is a lovely place to visit. You can go have a cocktail and a great meal, but there's not real freedom of speech, right? And Brazil, it's like it's still this beautiful place. It's buolic. There's a lot of sex happening. Lot of sex in the movie. not very sexy. Yeah.

Very, very sexy. Very authentically of the fabric of Brazil. Yeah, exactly. And

that's so true. It's just hard for people to understand that just because your day-to-day life can be one of sunshine and beaches, it doesn't guarantee that you have real freedom. And I wonder how you as a Brazilian think about that period. And and just the way, you know, people like enjoying their lives. They don't want to have to worry about darkness at the edge of the frame.

You know, when I did Narcos and I was living in Colombia and Bogotaa back in the 80s was the most dangerous city in the world because of the bombs Pablo Escobar was putting on the streets and everything. And I was asking my friends in Colombia, I was like, "Hey, what how was it to be to live here back in the 80s? What what it was?" And they were like, "Dude, we were going out. We were going to bars and living our lives." And then boom, my bomb would explode. And

exactly. That's and and that's one thing that I love in films is to see characters I love to see characters that

that want to live that like to be alive despite of the situations that because that's how human beings are. So we're not monolithic. Uh uh, of course it's hardcore to be under a detective ship, but one of my favorite scenes in the secret agent is when he realizes that there are hitmen looking for him in a movie and he goes downstairs and carnival is going on and goes like, "Okay." So gives himself to the carnival and goes uh and that's that's for me that's very humane. That's that's a uh um but you were right about this thing that dictatorships uh not dictatorships but but authoritarian regime now nowadays

it's interesting man I mean yeah when I think about the the detectors the dictators from South America back in the 70s and and '7s they're all those military guys with you know like those hats and and things

uniforms yeah uniforms forms and and and and it's interesting that they all now they they they are perceived as ex exactly like you said. I haven't thought about that as like yeah this is just you know like this is it. This is this is this is this is normal. This is this is it's more like a cynical uh uh that's that's one thing about Donald Trump that I think it's interesting.

What? Yeah. Tell me when he, for example, when he invaded Venezuela right now, he didn't say they had mass uh destruction weapons or anything like that. He like

no WMDs oil, you know, we're f straight up, we're robbing this country. We want their oil. That's what we want. And and I was like, wow. Uh uh because yeah I feel that now nowadays these authoritarian guys they they passed

as they like to to to behave as as dem as democratic guys. They don't it's like they don't want people to know it's like a full-on dictatorship. They're like you can still go to Zumba class. You're you can still get a smoothie.

There's just no press anymore. And also if you're brown if you're too brown we're going to deport you regardless of whether you're an American citizen

to another country that's not even yours. I mean, but that's the thing of the United States. It's like it's a very careful line, right? Right. You're nominated for best actor. We have a best picture nomination. And like those are hallmarks of a free and fair society that would champion that level of artistry that addresses the subject of dictatorship so directly. But it's also like but the rest of the country's like go to Minneapolis. I was there three weeks ago. That sure as did not feel like a democracy. Right. It's

course and you say like I'm nominated for an Academy Award, but if I see ice people on the street,

right? I' I've I've I've been asking myself what what would I do? What would you do?

I don't know. My instinct and I have I know that I have this instinct in in me which my wife gets very nervous about which is like you, you know, and and and I have to be careful with that. That's insane. Can I just say this is insane that you

Yeah. Because they You're going to the Oscar and I'm and I speak with an accent and I Yeah. What? It's like they and they go I I don't know what what would I do? I don't know. Should I just pretend that they're not there and try to walk? I don't know if I could be able to do that, you know, of or my reaction would be like confront confrontation and that could be very and that put could put my life in danger. Yeah. Do you do your kid your kids are old enough to know about what's happening? Do you talk to them about it?

Yeah. They went to a manifestation against ICE. Uh a protest. Yeah. A pro a protest here.

And and what did do they talk to you about what you should do or what you would do as a family? I mean, that's so insane that someone who's up for best actor is like, if I comes, I don't know what I do.

I don't know. I don't know. No, we have we have conversations here about politics and and I just want them to be safe, you know, like when they the younger ones, my I have a my my my kids are 19, 15 and 13 and the 15 and the 13, they were like, "Dad, there's a manifestation uh uh uh against eyes. Some of our friends are they're going, "Can we go?" I was like, "Yeah, you should go." But I was like

worried worried. Yeah. when we talk about sort of like masculinity and the the the ways in which fathers and sons can impart lessons to each other and just how much of our political moment is dictated by toxic masculinity. I must ask you since you just sort of made a glancing mention of the Epstein files like what do you think of all that? I know that the corruption of the elites was something that happened in Brazil in this period, something that a lot of autocratic and dictatorial societies are familiar with because you really can't get far unless you have buyin from the richest the most and the most powerful.

But like when you see this Epstein stuff come out like I mean what do you think of it? What is it? What is like what was your thought when you saw all the people that were mentioned in the file? It's crazy because I I sometimes I I catch myself like in a sort of like Qan on sort of like

well I mean I think all of us were like conspiracy yeah like this like going Qanon maybe maybe kind of we hit on something there

conspiracy theories about for sure we're talking about a a financial elite right that that that when I heard that non chonsky was involved in this thing. I was like, "Yeah, man. You know, this is this is it." You know, for sure this most of the most of the of the people involved in this scandals in this scandals are uh you know, conservative politi politicians and then but it it actually it didn't it's not it's it's not about right or or left.

No, it's about power and wealth. It's about power and wealth. And for me that is coming from a country where social inequality is the biggest issue you know is the biggest issue of of of Brazil and and every time with the exception of Lula that's why I respect him so much but every time a president in Brazil someone tried to do something about it this person got ousted you know got impeached or there was a coup d'etata or something every time because people make lots of the interest rate in Brazil is like I don't know I don't even know it's like the biggest in the in in the world you know so so the the banks makes lots of money in financial it's it's it's a system that they don't want to to to be changed uh uh so it's just yeah it's it's just yeah it's hard not to go like oh my god this this this world is being ruled by lizards

is it weird to be in a place like Hollywood when this stuff comes out because he made inroads. He was always Epste was always trying to get to Hollywood and there is a certain like Hollywood can look away from things it doesn't want to see. We know that from the Me Too movement.

Yeah. And I just wonder like I wonder what it's like to be a bit of a radical and to be politically engaged and being someone who's ready to resist in a in a and I'm not asking you to like smear Hollywood but so much of Hollywood is transactional and it's just about like you know who knows who and power and don't expose yourself be you know

exactly yeah yeah but you know in a in a of course in a way smaller scale I lived this in Brazil as well.

There is a star system in Brazil as well that it did operate sort of in the same way but in a in a smaller um in a way smaller scale and it's yeah it's how the same that we we spoke in the beginning like the I I I I understand I really understand people that don't want to go out there and say things you know although I agree with you if there's a moment to go out there and say I think it's now

it's now but I understand who doesn't want to do that, you know, because it's the people are not equipped emotionally or or or or you know, or intellectually or or or or or didn't don't people shouldn't talk about things that they don't understand or I get that, right? I get that. But uh uh but it's for me, yeah, it's it's just I I'll keep I'll keep being myself. Just again, the thing that I tell to my kids all the time is like be yourself. You know what you are is good enough. Don't try to be something else. Don't try to impress anyone. Just you are wonderful just the way you are.

Just be yourself and you'll be fine. Stick with the values that you have. And you meanwhile are going to be someone else every couple months.

I'm kidding. I know what you're saying. But yeah, but but that's another thing about it like

and I will be Pablo Escobar. No, but that's the point for me. It's interesting. I've I've I've come to realize more and more that when I play a character is way more a version of myself

Yeah. than anything else. You know, like it's not like the idea that actors like put mask in front of them. But I

So you're not method. I think it I think we expose ourselves a lot when we play even when we play characters like Pablo Escobar. Can I ask you I I asked you this because you're from South America and um Trump's ramp up to the Super Bowl and Bad Bunny performing and was like so the the racism usually like lives right on the surface, but in that moment and the aftermath it was like the the degradation of Latin culture and the like acu the accusations that like you can't be part of America, you know, Bad Bunny saying together we are America and ending the Super listing off including your home country all these countries and suggesting like the prospect the the promise of this place is its inclusivity and that you can be Brazilian but you're also American. How did like how did that moment strike you when you were I mean I don't know if you watch football but like I assume the like the the sort of

like do you speak English, what language do you speak like the whole debate about having this performer and what he said ultimately in his joyous celebration of a halftime show.

I didn't see the whole thing. I saw a video afterwards and uh I I thought he was beautiful. I thought I thought he was he was brave and he because I for me it's always what an I could be here talking to you and saying things and I can say here right now I think Donald Trump is racist right and I keep telling this and doing this all the time this wouldn't be as important or as or or stronger than for example the film that we did the secret agent I think that what what what fascists are afraid of is not they're not afraid of because they any fascist government they attack journalists they attack artists they attack uh universities but with artists I don't think that they are afraid of what we say publicly they are afraid of what we do you know this is what concerns them you know and so Bad Bunny in the Grammys he went up there and he said eyes out and it was like cool but what he did with that

performance is way more powerful. It's his it's it's it's his uh talent and what that's what he was born to do and the way he did it. I thought I was very moved by performance and uh and of course in Trump's reaction is is a a clear uh display of uh of racism and and and uh and

but also fear I think too. And fear and fear that's what I'm talking and fear. That's right. and fear

because to your point I mean Trump wants to believe as as as much of a cultural idiot as he is. I think you're totally right about artists being a very powerful bull work to authoritarianism because they have the hearts and the mind of the people. They have this magic to them that can't easily be stamped out and can't be dismissed as partisan chicannery. It's it's like it's something that that Trump will never have. That magic that Bad Bunny had and the goodness and the like joy of that performance is the opposite of what he he's offering to the American

being such a narcissist, you know, for him. Yes. That's not a there's but but you said very right. It's like fear is a I I'm convinced that the whole all the all the bad things in the world they can they all come out of fear and in or and insec and um lack of self stee going back to to to to the uh to the guys killing Alex Bri in in Minneapolis. I saw those men. They were in fear of what that's what I could see, you know, like very scared, man. They were always scared. uh uh uh there's something in their life and and and and exactly and the way they recruit the ice people from what I heard it's very particular like like it's like they are gathering people with very not not only a ideologically but like there is something about these men that that connect them in their fear in their lack of self-esteem in the way that they've been you know like in their minds that they've been relegated uh uh um their

entire lives. And I could see this when Bolson got elected when in his all his secretaries and and and ministers, they were like a bunch of people that no one really never cared about. It was like, you know, there were like a lot of like uh people with so much resentment in their hearts and that and and now this now it's my moment. Now it's the

Well, I would argue the same is true of the Trump administration. It's like the the cabinet of broken toys. It's people who have faced rejection, who feel less than and who've been given some power and are going to use that to, you know, put the boot on other people's necks. I think it's also why IECE wears masks.

It's for their own. It's like they're also they they know that part of their impunity is because they're hidden, but if they actually had to face the music of what they're doing, the depravity of it, like they're they're terrified of what they're doing.

That that says a lot. Exactly. The the masks are a huge part of this. The mask says a lot. You know, why Yeah. Why Why you're you're not showing your face.

I got to ask you about this because I I was really struck by this quote when you when you after Narcos, a series I absolutely loved so much. Again, it's like I know every journalist does this in these interviews with you, so I'm trying my best not to be fawning. But anyway, um you said you turned down a lot of interviews after Narcos because you didn't want to be like the Latin bad guy. And and in an interview you said, "I want to play a character who speaks the way I speak because I represent a big portion of this country. People who came here speak with accents and are important for what we know as the United States, which is chef's kiss, no notes."

But like that feels like a really political statement in the state. Yeah, it's it's for sure a political statement. you know, I I I want I don't want to play I want I don't want to do anything that would be, you know, that would represent my people in a in a way that would be stereotype or or would image representation matters a lot. You know, I I've I I think that it's great to see, you know, to let to have kids back in like in Brazil looking at the kind of characters that I want to play or that, you know, one thing that I was very like I love to see Diego Luna in Star Wars.

I know, you know, like so good. That's so important. like a Mexican little boy there in Mexico or like the Mexican communities or people that speak Spanish here in this country go like, "Oh my god, there's this dude speaking with that accent and it's in the Star Wars world. I belong to that, too." I think this is so important, you know, for the for kids, for the new generations, and and yeah, it's for sure a political statement.

Pedro Pascal needs to take that Mandalorian mask off. Just kidding. He's great. He's great. Pod Save America is brought to you by Arra Colostrum. Armor Colostrum is nature's original solution. Colostrum is packed with over 400 bioactive nutrients that fortify gut health and strengthen immune health to build resilience at the cellular level. Because when you invest in your health, you're investing in your ability to show up, think clearly, and stay in control no matter what life throws your way. Probiotics are touted as a gut health solution, but they only address one part of the four-part gut wall. Armor colostrum naturally fortifies your entire gut wall system, nourishing your microbiome, strengthening the gut wall architecture, helping to guard against every day.

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Let me ask you because I I feel like on your CV it says that you at one point worked as a journalist. Is that right?

I graduated as a journalist. I that's why I also why I care so much about journalism and and I and I'm so concerned about the state of journalism.

Is that why you took the the less glamorous path of a Hollywood um superstar? It's just like it was too much pressure being a journalist.

No, I I I I think that I wouldn't that that wasn't my thing. I think I don't think I would be a a very good journalist.

Why? It it I think it h it requires a lot of um I have lots of interest in other people and I want to know about it and but there is a thing that a journalist has to be very you know invasive sometimes

like me saying why. No, not you. No, but you know like you have to be relax, you know, you have to like keep knock receiving a no and going back there and knocking at their door and trying and I don't think I had that kind of skills. uh uh you know and also too when I worked as a journalist I was I had a very romantic idea that I wanted to chop I wanted to be like all the president's man kind of thing

and do something that and it the kind of thing that I was doing when I started as a journalist was very like

what were you doing do you remember I remember that I covered police I had to go to the police station and know how many people died how

that's what Woodward and Bernstein were doing they were like weekend beat reporters

was very like and also I did some cultural things too and I don't know man I I think that I I that's acting is more

well you're nominated for an Academy Award obviously you chose the right path my friends in from from from uh the city where I'm from from Salvador but most of them are my my I met my wife in the uh in in college studying journalists some most of my friends are journalists and I'm very concerned of the state of journalism as a business and as a idea here. Uh it's uh the Washington Post thing is very uh it was a very sad thing to see, you know, like I was like Jeff Bezos has 40 million to put in that documentary and he couldn't, you know, he had to fire all these people like from from from the Washington Post. The Washington Post is a very very important institution for American democracy. You know, again talking about the all the presidents, man, you know, like uh uh it's it's uh so those that those kind of things really this this concerns me a lot.

Well, you talk about Watergate and um I'm reminded of the 1970s in America, which was like an incredible period of cinema. I think in large part because it was a response to Vietnam and Watergate and the corruption of institutions. Do you feel optimistic that we're going to I mean and your movie is obviously time you know you you did it in 24 um and we've obviously been talking about autocracy and dictatorships a lot in the western world. Do you are you optimistic that Hollywood can react in the way that it did like it did in the 70s and and and sort of be fertile again or do you feel like the system is

beyond repair? I never I' I'm very bad with this, you know, predictions. I don't I never know what's going to happen and I don't know how the the impact of technology is going to have in our in what we do. I can see that the AI thing is, you know, is moving so fast. There's AI actors already, you know, like I don't know, you know, I don't know the grip uh um of this technology. Uh uh

well okay let me ask you let me without asking you to be like a you know deadline Hollywood like go ahead go ahead.

No is that the the film the secret agent had if you if you noticed it had a very huge clever meds the director of this film he loves American films as I do from the 70s.

Yeah. and is very influenced by that very clear even with the way he shoots with the panamorphic lenses and the zooms and the political aspects of three days of Condor and all those films from from Pack and Pa from from you know the Palma and

Pack and Pa all these uh Pakula um yeah I this is a great era of of of for films in the world is is

and the clothes are so awesome let's just say yeah the clothes Great. I hope so. Listen, I hope

Are you kidding? You got You like You look amaz You The wardrobe the clothes are great. But I I to to your question, I hope I hope so. I think I really liked one battle after another.

I thought that it was a great film, you know, about a revolution in the future and and also like again like a film that was they shot it. I don't know when they shot that, but you know, and then all these film that starts with lots of Latinos in a be getting, you know, in a in a in a prison and the revolutionaries freeing them and yeah, I think we I think it's it's a it's we'll filmmakers and artists, we'll keep doing our thing, you know, like it's like despite of economical powers and Hollywood and and the grip that that the that money has on the studios and and and the technology thing and I think we'll keep doing our thing. It's just it's just what we do.

Well, you you said something really beautiful at the beginning of this which I want to get back to before we close it out, which is, you know, generational trauma can be passed down, but so can gener is I'm getting it wrong already. Is it generational hope? I mean, I think one of the

values. Yeah. Values. You said generational trauma can be passed down, but so can generational values. And I think honestly one of the ways you remind people we remind ourselves of who we are and in all of our complexities is through art, right? Like it's like you this this film is a reminder of what happened in Brazil, but it's a way for Brazil to also reconcile her past or his whatever you want to his past, whatever. And and it's a holding a mirror back up to ourselves, but that's also how we it's a statement of values and priorities that you make art like that, right? that one battle after another and the sta and and the secret agent are both going to be best picture nominees is is is a value statement about what matters and what resonates in our culture and that's really hopeful

I think so I think so too and I think that this is so it's been so important uh to you know because the the far right in Brazil they were very efficient in in efficient in transforming artists of course into the enemies of the people. There's a big discussion in Braz about if the government should fund culture or not. Of course, the far right says it. No, we shouldn't they shouldn't do that. And they and they said that all these artists they are, you know, they using the money to that we should build a school or a hospital and we're doing a film.

Bunch of it's That's a false that's a false statement. That's a false choice. That's a false Abs. But you know, but people, it's crazy because people see that and people go like, "Oh, yeah. I prefer a school than a film, you know." And this is being uh a a battle, one battle after another that we are

that we are fighting in Brazil against against this this kind of thing because no country devel I listen, I grew up watching American films, right? So that for me were international films but that I saw with subtitles but but my understanding of what the US is comes from the films that I saw. You know every time every time I think about Christmas although in Brazil it's summer I think about snow because of the American Christmas films. So, and that's and that's and and that was something that was important for me to to to read your your country to to to to have to empathy for for for these people to admire things about this culture to you know and to see things that I didn't like as well and to go like oh that's not cool and to to to to form an idea of other countries but I guess it's even more important for an American American for Americans like throughout history like to be able to see themselves to go like

oh so this is who we are you know we are this is and and and great things and and that's the the shaping of a culture no country develops without that so the false dichotomy of like hospitals or films it's stupid because we need we need films we need books we need we need to see ourselves in our in our I love what's going on in Brazil right now. The way people are embracing this film even with the polarization and see like this film represent us. You know, this is Brazil, you know, this is a part of of Brazil. It's a part of Brazilian history. So, yeah, I think I think this is this is indeed very very important. It's like why, you know, the the videos of Alex Prey and Renee Nicole Good are really important, but then it's also it's also important to see Bad Bunny at the Super Bowl. And it's also important, you know, it's it's all of a piece. It's all America and and the only tr the truth um is not distilled into

just one image, but many images, right? So, can I ask you like do you know what you're going to say if you win?

I I really don't. Are you gonna say ice out? I'm kidding. I have no idea. I think that we got I'm so happy that we honestly like no We got so far. It's crazy. You know, this Brazilian film had four nominations to the Academy Awards. We won awards in can. We won awards in the Golden Globes. It's great. You know, I think that we we are where we where we didn't really dream to be when we were doing this movie. So, yeah, as of as a you know, I I don't I don't think I don't have expectations like I'm going to win an award this time. Really,

you've given more thought to what happens if ICE detains you than if you actually win the Academy Award.

That I should be that I should be definitely thinking about. Why isn't he here? Oh, here's the pain. Oh my god. Jesus.

No. Well, that would be amazing for the cause. Let's just be clear. Yeah. Now I'm I I could have a chance.

Now, thanks to this podcast, we've put a target on your back. Not the intention at all. And we know you would get out fast because

that would that would generate lots of publicity for sure. Well, listen. I hope that you win it and there's no ice agents anywhere near. It's an extraordinary film. You're an extraordinary. I just it's so reassuring to have artists who are also politically engaged and just so awake. It's awesome. It's great to have you on a program like this and it means a lot both I think for us here at Crooked but also for our audience and it's just great to see a handshake between politics and art that's so effortless and so real. So I

think that they they they walk together. I don't I don't see art I think that they they're really entangled. Our arts and politics is sort of like the same, you know. I think that's how I see it.

Listen, I wanted to be an actor, but I became a journalist. You wanted to be a journalist, became an actor. I think we ended up in our right lanes.

And we're both vaguars. And we both we needed a a Vagner in journalism and one in

there's a lot in common here, Alex. I don't know. I just we're we're siblings from a different mother. I don't know. Something like that.

It is a true pleasure, Vagner. Thank you for spending some time with me today. You're the best.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to Vagnner for being such a sport about all of this. I hope this doesn't dim your prospects getting a Pixar movie. Uh but keep making these movies and everybody please keep supporting artists who can have conversations like this in the middle of an Academy Awards season by going to see The Secret Agent, which is uh streaming now, or by going back into the vaults and checking out season one of Narcos, where he is totally awesome. Thank you to Vagner for doing this, and thank you guys all for listening.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Wagner Moura SLAMS Trump Over ICE and the Epstein Files"?

Alex Wagner (Host), Vagner Moura (Guest).

What is "Wagner Moura SLAMS Trump Over ICE and the Epstein Files" about?

Wagner Moura discusses the parallels between Brazil's past dictatorship and contemporary political issues in the United States, particularly focusing on the erosion of freedoms and the targeting of dissent. He emphasizes the role of artists in resisting tyranny and reflects on the impact of his film "The Secret Agent," which sheds light on a significant period in Brazilian history.

What is mentioned in this Pod Save America episode?

9 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Vagner Mora, ICE, Academy Awards, Narcos, Pablo Escobar. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Wagner Moura SLAMS Trump Over ICE and the Epstein Files"?

The episode runs 1 h 5 min; the transcript is about 11,990 words in 174 timestamped sections.

More from Pod Save America

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated February 15, 2026.