I Saw Luigi Mangione In Court, And This Is EVERYTHING He Did

What this episode is about

Luigi Manion faces multiple criminal charges across different jurisdictions following the shooting death of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson in December 2024. He is charged with serious offenses, including various degrees of murder and weapon possession, as authorities in Pennsylvania and New York engage in a jurisdictional dispute over who will prosecute his case.

Key takeaways

• Three trials and one Luigi—legal musical chairs or just pure chaos in justice couture?
• Double jeopardy tango: how many charges can dance around before it trips over its own feet?
• In the land of the free, 'terrorism' is a costume too big for some legal actors.
• U.S. healthcare woes: Enough to drive a CEO crazy, but murderously so?
• Prosecutors bake a legal cake with layers of charges, hoping one is the perfect slice.

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Luigi Manion, New York State, Pennsylvania, Terrorism charges
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Pennsylvania, Federal case, The feds, New York State
3. 20:00 – 30:00: Prosecutor, Jury nullification, Brian Thompson, Altuna
4. 30:00 – 40:00: Prosecutor, Jim Manion, Shan Diddy Combmes, Luigi Manion
5. 40:00 – 50:00: Jim Manion, backpack, courthouse, Free Luigi
6. 50:00 – 1:00:00: Luigi Manion, Legacy media, Rotten Mango, Shan Diddy Combmes
7. 1:00:00 – 1:10:00: courthouse, Luigi Manion, Legacy media, Shackles
8. 1:10:00 – 1:20:00: Luigi Manion, Terrorism charges, Prosecutor, New York State
9. 1:20:00 – 1:30:00: Prosecutor, Luigi Manion, New York State, Federal case
10. 1:30:00 – 1:33:24: Healthcare is a human right, Free Luigi, Legacy media, The people united will never be defeated

Notable quotes from "I Saw Luigi Mangione In Court, And This Is EVERYTHING He Did"

• Midtown Manhattan. 5 days later in Pennsylvania, Luigi Manion shouts at the press, It is completely out of touch and an insult to the intelligence of the American people and…

  about Luigi Manion · at 0:12

• More or less in some sort of pissing contest to be the ones to take down 27-year-old Luigi Manion. He has charges in Pennsylvania which include forgery, carrying a firearm…

  about Pennsylvania · at 1:23

• Then federally, he is now facing another four charges for murder through the use of a firearm, stalking resulting in death, and the use and possession of a firearm in relation to a violent crime,.

  about Docket / SDNY · at 2:12

• Familiar faces. His main lead attorneys on his cases in New York State and federal court are the Agnifilos. Karen Agnifil and her husband Mark Agnifil, who also happened to be…

  about Karen Agnifil · at 4:12

• Legal loopholes that they have to jump through non-stop. H we're going to be attending Luigi Manion's New York State hearing September 16th in New York City. This hearing is important for a variety of different reasons. There are a few.

  about New York State · at 5:55

• Be probably the biggest problem that's going to be covered tomorrow is what I'm thinking, but is the DA's office, Manhattan DA's office, they do a subpoena to Edna Healthcare.…

  about Edna Health / Etna · at 18:56

• Another problem is with the Fed case, since we're talking about jury nullification, is that Pam Bondi, the attorney general, was appointed by Trump. Jay Clayton, the attorney…

  about Attorney General Pam Bondi · at 27:44

• Courthouse, a lot of the coverage just made it seem like a lot of these people are crazy. I will say maybe mainstream media was a little bit better this time around, which is…

  about Rotten Mango · at 1:01:59

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Luigi Manion — Person · Primary defendant / central subject · 38 mentions · first at 0:14
  Alleged perpetrator in the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO; central focus of the episode's reporting and courtroom coverage.
• Brian Thompson — Person · Victim (UnitedHealthcare CEO) · 10 mentions · first at 0:02
  Identified murder victim whose death triggered the investigations and prosecutions discussed in the episode.
  Police push him up against a brick wall to silence him and they force him inside the courthouse. He is then charged with crimes related to the death of United Healthcare CEO…
• Karen Agnifil — Person · Lead defense attorney (New York State & federal) · 1 mention · first at 4:16
  Lead counsel for Luigi Manion in New York State and federal cases; publicly arguing against terrorism charges and prosecutorial conduct.
• Attorney General Pam Bondi — Person · U.S. Attorney General (appointed official leading federal death penalty decision) · 5 mentions · first at 17:58
  Publicly announced the federal government's decision to seek the death penalty in Luigi Manion's federal case; cited by defense as prejudicial.
• Jay Clayton — Person · Federal prosecutor / SDNY (referenced) · 4 mentions · first at 13:56
  Referenced as U.S. Attorney for SDNY involved in custody/extradition discussions; later recused from the Luigi case per transcript.
  Swinging at the prosecutors is very intense. really the Jay Clayton was recused from Luigi Manion's case.
• Mark Agnifil — Person · Co-counsel / defense attorney · 2 mentions · first at 4:16
  Member of Luigi's defense team; appears in hearings and assists Karen Agnifil.
  On his cases in New York State and federal court are the Agnifilos. Karen Agnifil and her husband Mark Agnifil, who also happened to be Shawn Combmes's lead defense council.…
• Thomas Dicki — Person · Defense attorney (Pennsylvania case) · 2 mentions · first at 9:39
  Counsel representing Luigi in the Pennsylvania prosecution; arguing about in-person attendance and extradition.
  Pennsylvania is Hello, don't forget about us. We need Luigi for a hearing in November. So Luigi's attorney, Thomas Dicki, he is only representing him in the Pennsylvania case.
• Shan Diddy Combmes — Person · Referenced prior defendant / comparative case · 12 mentions · first at 4:22
  Used as a comparator for media treatment and defense team overlap (Agnifil representation).
  On his cases in New York State and federal court are the Agnifilos. Karen Agnifil and her husband Mark Agnifil, who also happened to be Shawn Combmes's lead defense council.…
• Luigi — Person · 30 mentions
• Jim Manion — Person · 9 mentions · first at 5:08
  She says the prosecutors, quote, they're trying to get two bites at the apple to convict Mr. Manion. As a result of unprecedented prosecutorial oneupmanship, Mr. Manion now…
• Shawn Combs — Person · 6 mentions
• Thomas Dicki — Person · 2 mentions · first at 9:39
  I don't know if it's that exact, but Oh, hey, did we email Thomas Dicki?
• Karen Agnif — Person · 2 mentions · first at 17:01
  It seems like lots of inmates talk to their attorneys there. Luigi is on a phone call with Karen Agnif, his lead attorney, and that is recorded.
• Marine Comey — Person · 2 mentions · first at 32:16
  And it's like you know all the ones doing like Marine Comey who is now suing.
• Mark Agnif — Person · 2 mentions · first at 1:09:47
  Taller than I expected. Like very tall to the point where I was I want to ask Mark Agnif how tall he is because he was even when he was standing next to the attorneys, he was…
• Hannibal Lectar — Person · 2 mentions · first at 1:21:10
  Would make a lot of sense because these court officers were genuinely acting like this is Hannibal Lectar.
• Karen Agnifil — Person · 1 mention · first at 4:16
  Familiar faces. His main lead attorneys on his cases in New York State and federal court are the Agnifilos. Karen Agnifil and her husband Mark Agnifil, who also happened to be…
• The Agnifilos — Person · 1 mention · first at 4:16
  Familiar faces. His main lead attorneys on his cases in New York State and federal court are the Agnifilos. Karen Agnifil and her husband Mark Agnifil, who also happened to be…
• Mark Agnifil — Person · 1 mention · first at 4:19
  On his cases in New York State and federal court are the Agnifilos. Karen Agnifil and her husband Mark Agnifil, who also happened to be Shawn Combmes's lead defense council.…
• Mr. Weeks — Person · 1 mention · first at 14:48
  All just like fighting for Luigi. But this email is actually insane. Let me find this email. Dear Mr. Weeks, which is the Blair County DA in Pennsylvania, as we discussed, the…
• Kenstein — Person · 1 mention · first at 30:26
  On a blog Substack. I think it was a Substack and it was Kenstein.
• Aiko Tamura — Person · 1 mention · first at 34:43
  To attribute the NFL headquarters incident to Luigi. Mr. Manion is no more responsible for the actions of Mr.
• Jar Valan — Person · 1 mention · first at 44:36
  My name is Jar Valan. People don't really understand what goes on unless you have like a sensational enough trial that it gets televised or it gets meticulously documented, but that's not.
• Alice Gator — Person · 1 mention · first at 45:26
  The shooting death of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. Alice Gator covers where she'll be at tomorrow's hearing.
• Cassie — Person · 1 mention · first at 55:35
  To be acquitted. There was video evidence of him, harming Cassie in the hallways. There was domestic violence that was caught on CCTV camera. And so there were all of these…
• Keith Reeri — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:25:49
  Obviously because he does represent a lot of interesting people, including Keith Reeri, like lots of interesting clients previously. Karen Agnif worked primarily as a…
• Abil — Person · 1 mention
• Lena — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

• Webster's definition — Book · 1 mention · first at 29:52
  Manifesto. And like technically there is a definition for manifesto and it might fit that def like Webster's definition for it. But she's saying when he was arrested he was not…
• Health Communism — Book · 1 mention · first at 45:19
  My name is Lena. I'm from Los Angeles and this is a book I just brought to read in line called health communism.

Companies & orgs

• Edna Health / Etna — Company · Healthcare/insurer records custodian (subpoenaed) · 5 mentions
  Recipient of subpoena for Luigi's protected health information; at center of HIPAA-related disputes over improperly produced medical records.
• UnitedHealthcare — Company · Employer of victim / focal corporate institution · 4 mentions · first at 0:02
  Employer of the murder victim (Brian Thompson); the alleged motive/discussion references the U.S. healthcare system and corporate practices.
  December 4th, 2024, Brian Thompson, CEO of United Healthcare, is shot dead in front of his New York City hotel in Midtown Manhattan. 5 days later in Pennsylvania, Luigi Manion shouts at the.
• POPNYC — Company · Activist organizer · 2 mentions · first at 49:51
  Organization involved in organizing protests outside the courthouse advocating healthcare reform and supporting Luigi's supporters.
  We are back from the hearing. I will say before going to the hearing, we spoke with POPNYC, which I encourage you guys to go follow them on Instagram, as well as Renegade for Justice. They've been organizing a lot of the protest outside.
• Renegade for Justice — Company · Activist organizer · 2 mentions · first at 49:58
  Another activist group organizing protests and events related to healthcare reform and the Luigi Manion hearings.
  We are back from the hearing. I will say before going to the hearing, we spoke with POPNYC, which I encourage you guys to go follow them on Instagram, as well as Renegade for Justice. They've been organizing a lot of the protest outside.
• Midas Touch — Company · Media network referenced · 1 mention · first at 28:11
  Referenced as a political/media network where Karen Agnifil appears; used to contextualize political affiliations.
  Active as well to be obviously on the very opposite side of Trump. Karen Agnil does segments on Midas Touch. It's a network, a polit political network very famously opposing Trump. So, there's lots of like there's so many layers.
• Aetna — Company · 10 mentions
• United States Attorney General — Company · 8 mentions · first at 3:13
  Alleged crime if has been committed by Luigi can be justified by the abysmal state of healthcare in the United States. That's just a debate. I don't really think you can…
• Rotten Mango — Company · 6 mentions · first at 6:33
  In the sense of a lot of people have been asking for vlogs. I know some of you guys are probably new to Rotten Mango, but we used to vlog like I used to vlog my personal life…
• SDNY — Company · 6 mentions
• Altuna Police — Company · 4 mentions · first at 12:08
  Yes. Okay. So, he's got that's where he was apprehended is in the McDonald's and Altuna, Pennsylvania with the Altuna police.
• Altuna Police Department — Company · 2 mentions · first at 24:40
  Arguing that it seemed like he was pretty much detained from the minute that the Altuna Police Department stepped into the McDonald's. They had like seven to eight different…
• POPNYC — Company · 2 mentions · first at 49:54
  We are back from the hearing. I will say before going to the hearing, we spoke with POPNYC, which I encourage you guys to go follow them on Instagram, as well as Renegade for Justice. They've been organizing a lot of the protest outside.
• Renegade for Justice — Company · 2 mentions · first at 49:58
  With POPNYC, which I encourage you guys to go follow them on Instagram, as well as Renegade for Justice. They've been organizing a lot of the protest outside.
• United States District Court for the Southern District of New York — Company · 2 mentions
• Manhattan DA's office — Company · 1 mention · first at 19:03
  Going to be covered tomorrow is what I'm thinking, but is the DA's office, Manhattan DA's office, they do a subpoena to Edna Healthcare. They're Hey, Edna, Luigi was a client…
• Luigi's bookshop — Company · 1 mention · first at 45:05
  Tomorrow we have death penalty action coming and they just announced their like collaboration with Luigi's bookshop which is basically instead of buying on Amazon you can buy on bookshop.org and part of the proceeds go to his cases.
• Luigi's Pizzeria — Company · 1 mention · first at 57:59
  And some of them had t-shirts that had Luigi's face on them or they like they had Luigi's Pizzeria t-shirts. And like while I do think it's kind of I don't know, some people…
• POPNYC Renegade for Justice — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:29:52
  With this case. I do think that it was very interesting to go and attend the hearing. Definitely follow POPNYC Renegade for Justice. I think even as the trial proceeds, it's…
• Suits — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

• backpack — Product · 7 mentions · first at 25:12
  Was filed that the body cam footage depicts Altuna Police Department going through his backpack. And they're saying that they did not have like the proper search warrant for…
• Prison uniform (beige/sand colored) — Product · 4 mentions
• Firearm — Product · 2 mentions · first at 1:34
  27-year-old Luigi Manion. He has charges in Pennsylvania which include forgery, carrying a firearm without a license, tampering with records of identification, possessing…
• Shackles — Product · 2 mentions · first at 1:08:40
  Craning their necks cuz that's what you do. And the doors would open and you actually hear his shackles before you see him. And I think that was a very interesting moment…
• Court-approved clothing — Product · 2 mentions · first at 1:16:56
  Occurred afterwards. There were conversations of why he wasn't wearing court approved clothing like he had been in the previous hearings.
• Ammunition — Product · 1 mention · first at 2:26
  Firearm in relation to a violent crime, and interstate transportation of firearms and ammunition with intent to commit a felony. Luigi's top charges in the federal courts is punishable by the death penalty.
• Press passes — Product · 1 mention · first at 8:20
  Does anyone have the press passes?
• Ghost gun — Product · 1 mention · first at 36:12
  They're saying that him attempting to evade law enforcement and flee New York City with his ghost gun is future dangerousness. And they say, What relevance does that have to…
• Loaded magazine — Product · 1 mention · first at 40:46
  This claim until after she had already been searching through the backpack and after she recovered a loaded magazine.
• Stickers — Product · 1 mention · first at 1:06:43
  Firsthand in real time where I was just so confused. A lot of the protesters were also giving out these stickers.
• Pamphlets — Product · 1 mention · first at 1:06:47
  They were giving out stickers. They were giving out pamphlets. And I think the stickers are like a thing people do at protests. It's a sticker. Like enjoy your sticker. If you don't want a sticker, it's not a big deal. But a lot.
• LED backpack — Product · 1 mention · first at 1:07:45
  Was a girl dressed up as Luigi and she was hitting the poses. Okay. She had an LED backpack on. She came in early. they were like she was hitting the poses and it's like is that the best thing to do? I don't know. I don't know.
• Handcuffs — Product · 1 mention · first at 1:09:14
  Dressed in like a beige sand colored prison uniform and he had shackles around he had the handcuffs that were tied to his waist and you could hear the shackles on his ankles.…
• Brown paper bag — Product · 1 mention · first at 1:17:06
  Conspiracies but theories and speculations that his defense attorneys had brought this brown paper bag and they had brought clothes for him but because he had gotten a lot more…
• LED trucks — Product · 1 mention · first at 1:18:45
  Talking about the case and all of the fan girls and POP NYC they have these LED trucks that drive around the courthouse during the hearing. Like I would say they changed the…

Concepts & topics

• HPD / HIPPO — Concept · Legal/Privacy issue · 2 mentions · first at 6:14
  Refers to HIPAA (privacy law) violations alleged in prosecutors' handling of protected health information — central pretrial contention.
  There is HIPPO violations that have been alleged where prosecutors have allegedly done some shady try and get some medical records that they were not supposed to be privy to. So all of that's going to.
• Trope: double jeopardy — Concept · Legal concept discussed · 1 mention · first at 4:32
  Raised as a public/legal concern about simultaneous prosecutions in multiple jurisdictions and whether that constitutes double jeopardy.
  Swinging. In each one of these court cases, they are arguing against these simultaneous trials. Side note, double jeopardy is a huge thing in the United States, which is the…
• Prosecutor — Concept · 30 mentions · first at 4:04
  Going up against three different court systems, three different sets of prosecutors, three different jurisdictions, and his defense team, all of whom we will dive deeper into…
• Capital punishment — Concept · 14 mentions · first at 2:46
  The federal government is seeking capital punishment against Luigi Manion.
• Terrorism charges — Concept · 11 mentions · first at 2:58
  Probably the more controversial parts of his case that's pending. A lot of people take issue with the terrorism charges in particular. People can sit and argue with each other…
• Federal case — Concept · 10 mentions · first at 11:13
  Have is that he's being charged in Pennsylvania, New York, and then the federal case, SDNY. So, and it's technically all for the murder of Brian Thompson. And so, people are saying like for a person killing another person allegedly, you.
• Legacy media — Concept · 8 mentions · first at 52:06
  Don't hold me to this, I want to say at least eight to nine press pews were just legacy media.
• The feds — Concept · 6 mentions · first at 11:46
  The state, they want to try their case before the feds. And they're adamant on it. And Luigi's defense is well, you can't because we're literally trying to fight a capital case, like capital punishment. they want the freaking.
• Health care reform — Concept · 6 mentions
• State court — Concept · 4 mentions · first at 1:42
  Identification, possessing instruments of crime, and giving a false ID to an officer. Then in New York State court, he has a total of 11 charges. Murder in the first degree in…
• Federal court — Concept · 4 mentions · first at 4:16
  Familiar faces. His main lead attorneys on his cases in New York State and federal court are the Agnifilos. Karen Agnifil and her husband Mark Agnifil, who also happened to be…
• Justice system — Concept · 4 mentions · first at 17:53
  Political in the sense that it's not even really it's not even really the justice system anymore is kind of what they're saying in their like motions is the attorney general…
• Presumption of innocence — Concept · 4 mentions · first at 18:09
  The death penalty for Luigi Manion. And she also did not give him any sort of presumption of innocence. Never said allegedly. Never said we're going to get to the bottom of…
• defense attorneys — Concept · 4 mentions · first at 1:00:03
  Courtroom. Of course, when the defense team walks in, you want to get a good look. And these are high-profile defense attorneys. These are people that have been in the public…
• Capital punishment (death penalty) — Concept · 4 mentions
• Reserve list (court press access) — Concept · 4 mentions
• Weapons charges — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 13:02
  More serious charges. You've got murder, terrorism, you've got like all the weapons charges, and then the federal case, murder, that's capital punishment.
• Jury nullification — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 26:23
  Terrorism charge. Like lots of back and forth with the terrorism charge unless it's like jury nullification.
• Free Luigi — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 42:41
  The note was written by the free Luigi Reddit thread.
• Healthcare is a human right — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 49:06
• Live stream — Concept · 3 mentions · first at 1:23:48
  Were in the bullpen and one of them had their phone horizontal before Luigi came in and I was is he watching a live stream right now? I don't know. I don't know. It just kind…
• HIPAA violations — Concept · 3 mentions
• Healthcare in the United States — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 3:13
  Alleged crime if has been committed by Luigi can be justified by the abysmal state of healthcare in the United States. That's just a debate. I don't really think you can…
• Double jeopardy — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 4:32
  Swinging. In each one of these court cases, they are arguing against these simultaneous trials. Side note, double jeopardy is a huge thing in the United States, which is the…
• Body cam footage — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 10:40
  A human law enforcement wall. Council received seven terabytes of discovery, including body cam footage and other videos.
• The people united will never be defeated — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 49:42
  The people. United will never be defeated.
• Press pit — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 59:26
  In once the hallways are completely cleared of everyone except for the press pit. The press pit is where there's like a little barricade, rope barricade, and the press cameras are set up.
• Taxpayer money — Concept · 2 mentions · first at 1:27:33
  Come on, he's facing capital punishment in the federal court. you want to spend all that taxpayer money to be doing all of this right now and clearly lots of prosecutors are working on this case and there's so many cases in New York.
• Discovery (legal discovery) — Concept · 2 mentions
• RICO — Concept · 2 mentions
• This corporate greed has got to go — Concept · 2 mentions
• Constitutional Rights — Concept · 1 mention · first at 5:31
  Call out police who quote methodically and purposefully trample on Luigi Manion's constitutional rights. And there has just been so much argument about whether the terrorism…
• CCTV footage — Concept · 1 mention · first at 28:49
  Arguing that it happened in the middle of Manhattan, Midtown Manhattan. If you look from the CCTV footage, there's a woman merely a few feet away from where Brian Thompson was…
• Protective order — Concept · 1 mention · first at 41:40
  People's stated reason for not turning over discovery and for at some unknown future time seeking a protective order is that Mr. Manion is somehow responsible for quote…
• Free healthcare — Concept · 1 mention · first at 48:35
• Independent journalists — Concept · 1 mention · first at 53:36
  Different pending trials. There has been a very vocal complaint by people of wanting independent journalists to have access. And I'm not saying I'm an independent journalist.…
• Gen Z humor — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:19:18
  Is insane. And again, like these are people who do take cases seriously, but at the same time, it's just like Gen Z humor. And I feel like Legacy Media has not caught on to…
• Shan's case — Concept · 1 mention · first at 1:24:28
  Trials, but in the federal case, which are usually more high-profile cases, like the Shan's case, you had all the prosecutors, like six of them, and they would get they all sit in the bullpen.
• DOJ death penalty protocol — Concept · 1 mention
• Manifesto (alleged) — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

• New York State — Place · Jurisdiction / venue of one prosecution · 15 mentions · first at 1:42
  State where Luigi is charged in Manhattan (New York State court) and where the highlighted hearing took place.
• Pennsylvania — Place · Jurisdiction / venue of one prosecution · 13 mentions · first at 0:14
  State where Luigi was apprehended (Altoona/McDonald's) and faces forgery and weapon-related charges.
• Docket / SDNY — Place · Federal jurisdiction / docket · 2 mentions · first at 13:56
  Refers to the Southern District of New York federal case (SDNY) where federal charges including capital charges were filed.
• UI: NY Hilton / Midtown Manhattan courthouse — Place · Setting / alleged crime vicinity / courthouse vicinity · 3 mentions · first at 0:12
  Midtown Manhattan hotel/courthouse area referenced in CCTV and coverage; site context for arrest & hearings.
  December 4th, 2024, Brian Thompson, CEO of United Healthcare, is shot dead in front of his New York City hotel in Midtown Manhattan. 5 days later in Pennsylvania, Luigi Manion shouts at the press, It is completely out of touch.
• Bean counting conference — Place · Alleged targeted event · 1 mention · first at 35:53
  Mentioned in alleged motive/context as a place linked to victim or plot detail referenced in the indictment/manifesto.
  Aggravating factors such as victim impact, selection of sight for an act of violence. The prosecutors were citing the fact that he wanted to kill Brian Thompson allegedly at a…
• Bean counting conference / venue — Place · Referenced alleged target or contextual detail · 1 mention · first at 35:53
  Repeated reference in prosecution narrative about victim selection/site as an aggravating factor for terrorism charge.
  Yeah. And then three non-stutory aggravating factors such as victim impact, selection of sight for an act of violence. The prosecutors were citing the fact that he wanted to…
• courthouse — Place · 15 mentions · first at 0:36
  Police push him up against a brick wall to silence him and they force him inside the courthouse. He is then charged with crimes related to the death of United Healthcare CEO…
• Altuna — Place · 4 mentions · first at 12:08
  Yes. Okay. So, he's got that's where he was apprehended is in the McDonald's and Altuna, Pennsylvania with the Altuna police.
• MDC — Place · 2 mentions
• Federal courthouse in New York City — Place · 1 mention · first at 0:57
  Thompson. Then he's taken basically down the street to another courthouse to the federal courthouse in New York City where he is for a third time aranged for the death of…
• Blair County — Place · 1 mention · first at 14:51
  This email is actually insane. Let me find this email. Dear Mr. Weeks, which is the Blair County DA in Pennsylvania, as we discussed, the United States Attorney's Office for…
• NFL headquarters — Place · 1 mention · first at 34:36
  This is talking about how they're trying to attribute the NFL headquarters incident to Luigi. Mr. Manion is no more responsible for the actions of Mr.
• Hilton Hotel — Place · 1 mention · first at 56:09
  Him committing a violent act with his face in full view. Whereas, the Luigi Manion CCTV outside the Hilton Hotel, some people argue you can't really see his face. So, that will…

Media & podcasts

• Rotten Mango — Media · Publisher / reporting channel · 6 mentions · first at 6:33
  Podcast/YouTube channel producing the episode; covered the hearing and organized the trip and vlogging.

Sponsors

• HBO — Sponsor · Media outlet (documentary coverage referenced) · 1 mention · first at 43:22
  Produced a documentary segment about the case that featured interviews with NYPD and the mayor; defense criticized public dissemination of evidence.
  This week on HBO in a documentary, I see the chief of detectives and the New York City mayor, full hair and makeup done, sitting down and giving an interview for television and talking about the.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:01 Bada bing, bada boom. December 4th, 2024, Brian Thompson, CEO of United Healthcare, is shot dead in front of his New York City hotel in Midtown Manhattan. 5 days later in Pennsylvania, Luigi Manion shouts at the press, "It is completely out of touch and an insult to the intelligence of the American people and their lived experience." completely out of touch and it's an insult the intelligence and the American people experience. This is what he screams before the police push him up against a brick wall to silence him and they force him inside the courthouse. He is then charged with crimes related to the death of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson from Pennsylvania. Luigi Manion is shipped out to New York where he is once again arraigned for charges in connection with the death of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. Then he's taken basically down the street to another courthouse to the

0:57 federal courthouse in New York City where he is for a third time aranged for the death of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. As we speak, Luigi Manion faces three separate trials and charges for the events that allegedly he contributed to December of 2024. And it feels like all three jurisdictions are more or less in some sort of pissing contest to be the ones to take down 27-year-old Luigi Manion. He has charges in Pennsylvania which include forgery, carrying a firearm without a license, tampering with records of identification, possessing instruments of crime, and giving a false ID to an officer. Then in New York State court, he has a total of 11 charges. Murder in the first degree in furtherance of an act of terrorism, murder in the second degree as a crime of terrorism, and murder in the second degree with a non-terrorism charge, along with four counts of thirdderee criminal possession

1:59 of a weapon, two counts of secondderee criminal possession of a weapon, and another fourthderee criminal possession of a weapon and one count of secondderee criminal possession of a forged instrument punishable up to 7 years. Then federally, he is now facing another four charges for murder through the use of a firearm, stalking resulting in death, and the use and possession of a firearm in relation to a violent crime, and interstate transportation of firearms and ammunition with intent to commit a felony. Luigi's top charges in the federal courts is punishable by the death penalty.

2:34 Right. I tried death penalty cases throughout my career. If there was ever a death case, this is one. This guy's charged with a violent crime and we're going to seek the death penalty whenever possible. The federal government is seeking capital punishment against Luigi Manion. I will say that these charges are probably the more controversial parts of his case that's pending. A lot of people take issue with the terrorism charges in particular. People can sit and argue with each other all day long until the sun goes down about whether or not his alleged crime if has been committed by Luigi can be justified by the abysmal state of healthcare in the United States. That's just a debate. I don't really think you can convince one person or the other. If one person is so firm on it doesn't matter, breaking the law is breaking the law and that will never be okay. I don't think that there is a way to even get them to see another

3:30 perspective or vice versa. I just don't think it's possible. But I will say that across the board, people do have a problem with the fact that he has been charged with terrorism in New York State court. I think the most perplexing part of this is most school shooters do not even face terrorism charges or even capital punishment, the death penalty. Some people will argue it's a jurisdictional thing, but a lot of people say no, it's not. It's again very subjective. And yet Luigi Manion is going up against three different court systems, three different sets of prosecutors, three different jurisdictions, and his defense team, all of whom we will dive deeper into once the trial begins. But we do have some familiar faces. His main lead attorneys on his cases in New York State and federal court are the Agnifilos. Karen Agnifil and her husband Mark Agnifil, who also happened to be Shawn Combmes's

4:24 lead defense council. They are coming in swinging. In each one of these court cases, they are arguing against these simultaneous trials. Side note, double jeopardy is a huge thing in the United States, which is the unlawful prosecution of a person twice for the same offense. There's a lot of legal debate about this. A lot of people in the legal field say technically it's not double jeopardy because he hasn't been prosecuted for a crime. So it's not like he's been tried, convicted, and then we're going to retry him. It's just simultaneously all of these court cases are actively pending.

5:01 Karen Agnil, the lead defense attorney, she says the prosecutors, quote, they're trying to get two bites at the apple to convict Mr. Manion. As a result of unprecedented prosecutorial oneupmanship, Mr. Manion now faces three simultaneous prosecutions in three different jurisdictions, one of which is seeking the death penalty, while another is seeking life imprisonment, all for one set of facts. She has continued to call out police who quote methodically and purposefully trample on Luigi Manion's constitutional rights. And there has just been so much argument about whether the terrorism charges are warranted, whether capital punishment is warranted, whether or not it's double jeopardy to have all three cases pending at the same time, which also means it's much harder for his legal defense team to focus down on one case specifically.

5:54 It's a lot of legal loopholes that they have to jump through non-stop. H we're going to be attending Luigi Manion's New York State hearing September 16th in New York City. This hearing is important for a variety of different reasons. There are a few things that are going to be discussed during this hearing that's going to be important such as the terrorism charges. There is HIPPO violations that have been alleged where prosecutors have allegedly done some shady try and get some medical records that they were not supposed to be privy to. So all of that's going to be covered in the hearing hopefully. And this video is also going to be different in the sense of a lot of people have been asking for vlogs. I know some of you guys are probably new to Rotten Mango, but we used to vlog like I used to vlog my personal life back then and I've since kind of stopped because all I do is work on cases and I didn't think

6:44 that would be very riveting. But at the same time, people have been asking for a lot of the behind-the-scenes footage or information on how we work on our episodes. So, this is kind of a combination of both. It's going to be a completely different video format than a regular Rotten Mango episode. So, instead of just attending the hearing and then coming back to tell you about it, which is similar to how we've covered like the Shawn Combmes case, even during that, a lot of you guys have been asking, show us more about what's happening in real time at the courthouse as it's occurring. And so, that is kind of what we're trying to do here. It's definitely a newer type of video and we just want to show you what happens more behind the scenes. Hopefully, it's insightful. If not, just let me know.

7:25 But I do think that for this case, it could be very important because it seems like a lot of people that are actively covering the case that are I mean, I think leagues ahead of my expertise or even just there people that are actively trying to talk about all of the key elements in this case, a lot of them have been getting censored. A lot of maybe the behind the scenes of like how people are digging into this case has been um it's just been getting weird. So, I'm going to take you guys to New York and we are going to go to the hearing together.

8:20 Does anyone have the press passes? Yes, I was supposed to go through all of the court documents last night, maybe even the day before, but I was working on a different case and I got like 300 pages of the court document and then all of a sudden they just dropped 2,000 pages last minute. So, I had to go through that. So, what are we looking at? It's not that bad. So, this is a compilation of some news articles, but mainly like the um cases. So, we have Pennsylvania, New York, federal. Not a lot of case files so far. I don't know if it's good or bad, but I guess good for me since I don't have a lot of time.

8:59 In Hawaii. Oh, yeah. And there's something from Hawaii. What's going on in Hawaii? It's just one page. Okay. From 2023. Oh, there's a case in Hawaii or violated a trail thing cuz sometimes they have like offlimit trails cuz it's so dangerous people will die. Oh, is that where he took the picture? It's possible. The photo looks like it's it's like from one of those trails. I saw people going on TikTok and going to that exact spot to take the photo where Luigi took the photo. Yes, it's they they say it like the Luigi pilgrimage.

9:32 Yes. Yeah. Oh, he got in trouble for that. I don't know if it's that exact, but Oh, hey, did we email um Thomas Dicki? Yeah. You can look on this table and here. Here's all the evidence I have right here, guys. Zoom in. Zoom in. I supposedly want to Nothing. I've seen nothing. I have nothing. And both have my clothes. Nothing yet. Nothing yet. He's a young man and he is being treated like a human pingpong ball between two waring jurisdictions here. What did you say? There's his signature. That's his hammer ready. Oh, no. Mark. It's Mark.

10:11 Oh, yeah. It's Mark's signature. I thought he just got brought on. Um, this is from 2024. I think he's been on, but we only ever cared about Karen until we saw Mark in action. Oh, yeah. He he was in all the previous hearings, but I think but he was focused on Diddy's case. So, yeah, a human law enforcement wall. Council received seven terabytes of discovery, including body cam footage and other videos.

10:50 We just landed in New York and apparently the police has stopped by just asking like what's going on to our lines. Basically, people have problems with well, like the first problem that people have is that he's being charged in Pennsylvania, New York, and then the federal case, SDNY. So, and it's technically all for the murder of Brian Thompson. And so, people are saying like for a person killing another person allegedly, you just don't really have cases where it's tried in three different jurisdictions. I mean, technically you can legally it is allowed, but it just doesn't happen.

11:33 So, like that's the first thing. And New York State, the state case wants to go before the federal case. And then the they're literally all fighting for Luigi. The state, they want to try their case before the feds. And they're adamant on it. And Luigi's defense is like, well, you can't because we're literally trying to fight a capital case, like capital punishment. Like, they want the freaking death penalty. That's that's the most important thing right now. Wait, can you explain the the three charges real quick? Yes. Okay. So, he's got um that's where he was apprehended is in the McDonald's and Altuna, Pennsylvania with the Altuna police.

12:11 Those are it's like forgery, his fake license. Remember, he had a fake license, the weapons, it's like um all these little I don't want to say small, but they're definitely smaller charges in Pennsylvania. What how long is he looking at there? Do we know like the based on the charges? I mean, I don't think it really matters. Oh, that's true. These are like, you know, the kind of like the smaller charges. Then he gets extradite. Well, he doesn't get extradited. He ws extradition. He goes to New York. So, New York State NYPD, they do the perp walk. NYPD, they charge him with murder. And they're like, okay.

12:44 And also terrorism. So, they have the New York State case, which is the hearing that we're going to tomorrow. And then after that, the feds indict him. So now he's got the Pennsylvania case, New York State case, which are more serious charges. You've got murder, terrorism, you've got like all the weapons charges, and then the federal case, murder, that's capital punishment. That's what they're seeking is the death penalty. So this is where it gets really crazy. They're all fighting for him right now. New York State, they want to try their case first. Parent Agnif and the whole defense team, they're like, "No, you can't because the feds are literally trying to kill my client." So, no, that should be the most important thing. The fed's case has to go first and the state is like, "No." And then Pennsylvania is like, "Hello, don't forget about us. We need Luigi for a hearing in November." So Luigi's

13:36 attorney, Thomas Dicki, he is only representing him in the Pennsylvania case. They're like, "No, Luigi's not going to show up on Zoom. He's not going to do a video conference because like we're not doing this with you guys." Pennsylvania is like, "Well, you better. You better." and his attorney is like, "No, you can't make us. You, if you want Luigi, you got to get him in person." So, the Pennsylvania DA is emailing Jay Clayton of the SDNY, the feds, and the feds are like, "Respectfully and unrespectfully and disrespectfully, [ __ ] off." They're like, "Nope, you're not getting Luigi."

14:13 Oh, let me get the email. Pennsylvania just wants him for a hearing. They won't take a zoom. Luigi's team does not want to take a zoom. And I totally get why they don't want to. They Luigi's team just want them to hold off. No, Luigi's team is saying like we have three different jurisdictions in a pissing contest for our client. And like they're literally playing with our client's life just so that they can say what that they're, you know, right? So they're saying if you want him, come get him. And they're all just like fighting for Luigi. But this email is actually insane. Let me find this email. Dear Mr. Weeks, which is the Blair County DA in Pennsylvania, as we discussed, the United States Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York respectfully declines to authorize the physical return of defendant Luigi Manion to your jurisdiction while the federal criminal charges in USV Manion are pending. The

15:06 United States intends to keep custody of the defendant until the conclusion of the federal prosecution, including sentencing. Accordingly, our office will instruct the US Marshalss because Pennsylvania was like, "Put in an order. Put in an order to the US Marshalss that we need him for the hearing. We're going to transport him back to Pennsylvania for the hearing, take care of him, and then bring him back to you." But now they're saying, "Accordingly, our office will instruct the US Marshalss not to honor any writing to take custody of the defendants to appear in your jurisdiction."

15:39 Yeah. Basically saying disrespectfully, no. Wow. The feds are like, "We are not releasing him until after sentencing," which could literally be death. Yes. And it's crazy because the federal cases, it's like a whole other thing. They're trying to push the trial for mid to late 2026. Luigi's defense is saying, "Hey, most capital punishment cases, they don't even start like the commencement of a trial for like 48 months. This is like fast. This is crazy. We don't have time to prepare for something like this." And then on top of that, there are so many problems. So that's just the federal case. That's the problem. Oh, there's other problems with the federal case.

16:18 Who am I kidding? So in the federal case, they were monitoring his calls. At the MDC, there's two different phone lines that you can use that inmates can use. So the first phone line is like an attorney phone line. They cannot record those phone conversations. It's literally just attorneys with the inmates. It's protected. Then you have the second, which is a regular phone line. And I think inmates get like a certain number of minutes. They can call their friends. They can call their family. But a lot of inmates actually end up calling their attorneys through that line. I don't know. I feel like there's got to be a reason for it.

16:49 Whether it's easier, whether it's quicker to access your attorney, whether it's just like a less friction way, but it seems like lots of inmates talk to their attorneys there. Luigi is on a phone call with Karen Agnif, his lead attorney, and that is recorded. And one of the parallegals at the prosecution team, one of the prosecutors parillegals listened to a portion of it before they realized it was Karen Magnif. But that's what they're saying in quotes right? Yeah. And so they're saying like it's a mistake. And then they're also saying it's like kind of y'all's fault because why wasn't he using the attorney phone line? And like in the beginning of each phone call from this side, it tells you like all calls are going to be recorded. So, like technically it's y'all's fault. So, that was like the whole mishap with the federal thing. Well, there's other mishaps too and it gets very political.

17:43 It's the fact that it was um the Luigi's defense team is saying this is become so political in the sense that it's not even really it's not even really the justice system anymore is kind of what they're saying in their like motions is the attorney general Pam Bondi who was appointed by Trump. She was the one that came out and said we are going to seek the death penalty for Luigi Manion. And she also did not give him any sort of presumption of innocence. Never said allegedly. Never said we're going to get to the bottom of like why he did this, if he did this. Like it was nothing like that. The wording was very strong. It was incredibly passionate towards his assumption of guilt, which is not how the justice system works. She makes that statement and then a two weeks later they're seeking capital punishment. Luigi's defense team is saying like how can we get a proper jury in here when even the

18:40 attorney general of the United States is not even giving our client the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. So that's a whole issue with the federal case. Then the New York State case that the hearing that we're going to tomorrow, there's so many problems there. And I think that this is going to be probably the biggest problem that's going to be covered tomorrow is what I'm thinking, but is the DA's office, Manhattan DA's office, they do a subpoena to Edna Healthcare. They're like, "Hey, Edna, Luigi was a client of yours. We need his member ID number and we're going to need the time period that he was under your care, like under your I don't know if it's like insurance or whatever, under your care." They're like, "We need it by May 23rd, 2025, and you need to give it to us by May 23rd, 2025, which is like a court proceeding date. Otherwise, you're going to be held in contempt of court." Yeah. Criminal

19:38 contempt of court. Etna. Uh-huh. And you might be fined up to like $100,000. Also, like you can just mail it or deliver it. Also, here's the contact information. And they give the DA's office. So, they're saying there's so many problems with that. The defense is saying, first of all, they bypass the court. Anytime that you're supposed to get these types of records, they actually are supposed to send it to the court, not to the DA's office. Mhm. But they're like, "Hey, just contact the DA's office if you have questions." So, they're just bypassing the court, going straight to the DA's office. Etna is like, "Okay, here are the records." They give the records. What did the prosecutors ask for? Member ID and time period, right? They get back 120 pages.

20:22 Mhm. That sounds like a lot more than member ID and time period, right? However, the DA's office in Manhattan is like, let's just like take a look. Let's take a look. It's privileged medical documents. It's literally HIPPO violation after Hippo violation is what the defense is arguing. This is like statements Luigi Manion has personally made to his doctors. its medical diagnosis all in this 120 page document where at the very top of the first page of every sing freaking file. The first page of every file reads request for protected health information. And so they're saying, "Why' you guys go through that?" Okay.

21:04 Now, the prosecutors, they realize this. They've already opened it up. One of the prosecutors has opened it up. Scrolled through it. And then they're saying, "Oh, we just realized we're not supposed to be seeing this right now." Cuz like technic this is it. But even if there's a criminal case pending, you cannot just you have to get an order from the judge that's like, "Yeah, you can get the medical records or you have to get consent from Louis G. Manion or whoever the defendant may be, which neither of those things has happened. So this is like you cannot access these files." Now the prosecution come out and they say actually this was Etna's erroneously sent files. We asked member ID and the time period they sent us privileged information.

21:48 Etna is like no no no no. Edna tells CNN, "No, no, no, no, no. We gave what we were asked for. That's all we're saying." They're like, "That's it. That's all we're saying. We gave what we were asked for." And then the prosecutors are also saying, "Hey, so Edna [ __ ] up." And then guess who [ __ ] up again? Luigi's defense team because they emailed us back the files. So like they resent the prosecutors the files. They were like, "Hey, I don't know." They're just accusing them of resending them the files. Now Luigi's defense has now put in another response.

22:19 This was in August, so like a month ago, right? And they're saying, "First of all, you're so nonsensical." I mean, I I will say that this letter is pretty scathing. They're like, "You you guys are so nonsensical. We responded to your email and you [ __ ] had the files attached. Oh yeah. Oh, they just hit reply. We hit reply to be like, "What are you doing?" Yeah. Why do you have this? We hit reply to be like "Hello." Wow. And then they're like, "What do you mean we have compounded the effect or like the erroneous errors?" Because that's basically what they said in the prosecutor's response. So Luigi's defense is like, "Um, hello." And then they're also saying, but you know what's even crazier? First of all, let's They were really crazy in this email or this document. They're like, first of all, use common sense. You asked for his member ID and the term, you get 120 pages back. You don't even think about

23:19 [ __ ] HIPPA. That's what they're saying. And then the second thing that they're saying is it's actually crazy because nothing was scheduled for May 23rd 2025. So that subpoena that they made to Etna, they're like, "We need this for this court date, May 23rd, 2025." The defense is like, "Nothing was scheduled that day." So you made up a date to compel them to give you this information by said date when that date there was nothing on that date. That's all. So they lied. That's insane. Yeah. So I think the argument is going to be that like technically I guess they just needed a date like a deadline but the defense is arguing like state code says that when you give a date for a subpoena it's a designated like there is usually a court hearing or like something is happening on that date that they need those records like you don't just like subpoena someone and you just say you know what let me just say two

24:18 weeks from now. Mhm. So that has been the main I mean there are other arguments like the fact that this is kind of this argument is going on in Pennsylvania and it's going on simultaneously across all of the different cases but he was not read his Miranda rights immediately when they are arguing that it seemed like he was pretty much detained from the minute that the Altuna Police Department stepped into the McDonald's. They had like seven to eight different officers blocking his exit. Meanwhile, they're telling him he's free to go. They also searched his belongings without having the proper search warrant. Now, the Altuna Police Department, they are arguing. And oh, this is interesting.

24:58 Body cam footage. We don't have the body cam footage, but obviously the defense has it because it's in discovery. And they were staying in another motion that was filed that the body cam footage depicts Altuna Police Department going through his backpack. And they're saying that they did not have like the proper search warrant for this. Like this is protected in his Fourth Amendment rights. Like you can't just search people's stuff. Yeah. And at the point they point out that the police officer who's going through his belongings notices and it seems like they're hinting at like, okay, the vibe that they're hinting at is she's going through his backpack and it's like, [ __ ] I shouldn't be going through his backpack.

25:39 H. So then she says, I just got to make sure there's not a bomb in here. Oh, she says something along those lines. Wow. And the defense team is saying, "You knew what you were doing when you said that because if you genuinely thought that there was a bomb, you would have vacated the premises, the civilians, like you would have secured everything. You would have called in a bomb squad." Like, they're saying we already felt that it was not a proper search, but the fact that you even said that makes it even more sus.

26:10 Okay, that's like obviously not the legal way of saying it, but I'm just like informing happening. And then there's problems with the terrorism charge. Like lots of back and forth with the terrorism charge unless it's like jury nullification. You want to explain what jury nullification means? Yeah, jury nullification to put it simply because I do feel like um it's very sensitive topic that is heavily monitored these days. But jury nullification is when the jury gets together and to put it simply and casually, they say, "Hey, you know, I know your brother knows he did the damn thing, and it's a crime, but like, but like we refuse to."

26:55 Reddit says, "This is one of the most controversial and beautiful areas of criminal law. I can't do your question justice with the response. Generally, you can't talk about it. What? Oh, yeah. I think Okay. You can't talk about it as in I don't think it's ever included in any of the court's orders when they talk to the jury. Yes. So, that's why a lot of people in New York are getting like jury nullification. Educate yourself on jury nullification billboards without even putting Luigi's name on there because they just want anyone in this jurisdiction to understand jury nullification and to see it as an option. Because when you get to the courtroom, they're not going to say at the very end, here are the jury instructions. Here are your options. Oh, by the way, did you know about jury nullification? It's just part probably of the legal code of So, and then another problem is with the Fed case,

27:47 since we're talking about jury nullification, is that Pam Bondi, the attorney general, was appointed by um Trump. Jay Clayton, the attorney for the SCNY, he was also elected by Trump if I'm not mistaken. So, it just seems like there's a lot of political connections and then if you know anything about the Agnifil family, they're very politically active as well to be obviously on the very opposite side of Trump. Karen Agnil does segments on Midas Touch. It's a network, a polit political network very famously opposing Trump. So, there's lots of like there's so many layers.

28:21 Wow. Stuff going on in this one. But there is um Oh, I got to find the part with the body cam. Oh, okay. And then also the terrorism charges. The way that the prosecutors are saying it's terrorism, the defense is saying strange. They're saying that one of the basis of the terrorism charge is the prosecutors are arguing that it happened in the middle of Manhattan, Midtown Manhattan. If you look from the CCTV footage, there's a woman merely a few feet away from where Brian Thompson was standing. And so, it's grave risk to the human population essentially. But what the defense is saying then any murder that happens on any street of Manhattan should be a terrorism charge.

29:07 Yeah. But it's not. So why this one? And they're also saying that um for the Brian Thompson case because they're saying that Brian Thompson having him be killed in broad daylight is to incite violence for his own like ideological views and to try to get society and an industry to behave in a certain way through the threats of violence which is terrorism. Karen Magnif is just saying like when did he ever say that? So, first of all, that manifesto that everyone's calling a manifesto, Luigi's defense team is saying the police are the ones that called it a manifesto. It's not titled manifesto. Luigi didn't say this is my manifesto. And like technically there is a definition for manifesto and it might fit that def like Webster's definition for it. But she's saying when he was arrested he was not inciting violence by you guys releasing his manifesto it instilled fear in people. Like you guys are the one technically making people

30:09 have big emotional reactions. You guys you guys should be charged. Yeah. Like more or less that's what she's saying, right? Okay. Okay. So, there was a journalist who released it personally right on a blog Substack. I think it was a Substack and it was Kenstein. Yeah. Ken, but it was unconfirmed. And so, a lot of people were saying, "Well, we don't really know if these are his writings." And it was just kind of up in the air. The police are like, "Yeah, it's his writings. Here's his manifesto. We're going to count beans at a bean conference." Like, all of that jazz. And so Karen is saying like you guys are the one that are publicly releasing these things and you guys are the one causing the greater society to have an reaction.

30:53 It's not my client that's doing it. It's you guys that are doing it. Yeah. And also she's saying you shouldn't have even been searching his backpack. So this is the backpack part which I thought was very interesting. Oh, there's another very interesting part. I don't know who's I mean it's it's Karen writing these. Listen, not to compare, but I was, you know, we were reading so many different court documents and letters from attorneys for the Shawn Combmes case, and every time they would write a letter, it was just like, what? That's a crazy letter. These like it's so well written.

31:30 Not even just well written, like the amount of passion that they have. Like the way that they're coming out swinging at the prosecutors is very intense. really the um Jay Clayton was recused from Luigi Manion's case. Why? Why was he the attorney general or he's the attorney US attorney for SDNY? Yeah. Do you remember for Shawn Combmes it was all of the women's names for the prosecution and then always at the bottom. J Clay. Yeah. Like who where is he? Where is this man? Never saw him a day in that courtroom. Yeah, cuz they always have to sign with like the DA of the area or like the US attorney of that area and it's like you know all the ones doing like Marine Comey who is now suing.

32:19 Yeah, she's suing because she Okay, you want to give people some updates? Yes. An update that I was genuinely perplexed about. Marine Comey was let go from the SDNY and you guys know that. Okay. Marine Comey was like the lead prosecutor for the Shawn Combmes case for SDNY for the Fed case and she was listen like her dad is James Comey former FBI director notorious enemy of Trump I will say I don't care what you say about her dad Marine Comey seeing her in action like there was nothing like it she is so intelligent she is so quick on her feet I know people are like dogging on her online because Shan Combmes did not get the sentencing or the verdict that people wanted or the mainly the verdict by that people wanted but she is just I don't know she's whips smart she's so intelligent and she was let go from SDNY and apparently according to her lawsuit she they didn't give her a reason she said Jay Clayton

33:18 did not give her a reason and basically told her it's from Washington it's out of my hands what and so she's suing them for back pay legal fees and she said I want my [ __ ] job back too. But Jay But now Jay is gone. Oh, no. Just reced from the from the case. He's recused from the Luigi case. Wow. Is there a reason why he's recused, right? Oh, because of Is it because of the I think it's the phone calls? Really? That's it? If I'm not mistaken. No. Oh, hold on. I think it's because we read so many court documents for all these cases and I am by no means I know nothing about law but just reading as like someone who's reading court documents for these cases just when certain people just know how to write one they just this is about the terrorism charge and Karen is arguing that he's not inciting violence he's not trying to change an industry in fact Mr. Manion never stated anything publicly, released anything

34:23 publicly, or expressed anything online to suggest that this was his intention. Law enforcement, prosecutors, and the mayor of New York City are solely responsible for the very fear they are now attempting to attribute to Mr. Manion. This is talking about how they're trying to attribute the NFL headquarters incident to Luigi. Mr. Manion is no more responsible for the actions of Mr. Tamura or any other alleged killer whose actions followed his arrest than the president. is responsible for the alleged mishandling of classified documents by those who served with him before him or after him.

34:59 Oh my god. Gosh. Wait, India Nicholas's daughter is a parillegal as well. So it could be her writing this. It could be. So there is more about the terrorism charges. Okay. So the defense is just saying that the government for the terrorism charges they have to say these are the elements that require for it to be terrorism. Right. Yeah. And so the first one was the aggravating factors are substantial planning and premeditation because they're saying that he stalked Brian Thompson for weeks and months leading up to the murder, but I feel like that could apply to a lot of different cases, but what do I know? Um, and then also grave risk of death to additional persons because there was a woman nearby. It was in the middle of Manhattan. And that's a that's a weird one.

35:41 Yeah. And then three non-stutory aggravating factors such as victim impact, selection of sight for an act of violence. The prosecutors were citing the fact that he wanted to um uh kill Brian Thompson allegedly at a bean counting conference, right? And then future dangerousness. So the defense, they go all out fighting these different aggravating factors. So, for one, they're saying that him attempting to evade law enforcement and flee New York City with his ghost gun is future dangerousness. And they say, "What relevance does that have to proving future dangerousness?" Does the government contend that any alleged murderer who flees the scene of the crime with the alleged murder weapon presents a future future danger that it warrants imposition of the death penalty? If not, what facts make Mr.

36:32 Manion's alleged flight unique such that he presents a future danger so great that he deserves the death penalty. Then the defense just goes in on the attorney general Pam Bondi. And I just think, listen, I think there's so many layers to this case, but the way that they go after Pam Bondi is so fascinating. And I just feel like there's already blood, like bad blood between them because obviously, like I said, they're just very opposing in terms of political views. But they they even put in Pam Bondi's Instagram post cuz she made an Instagram post calling for the death penalty for Luigi Mani. And they say that Pam Bondi the basis that she believes there should be capital punishment is one, her past history as a capital crimes prosecutor. two that if there ever was a death penalty case, this is one and three that she herself has been threatened because of this case and four that a reason for seeking the

37:27 death penalty is that the victim was a CEO and five that Manion is guilty and six that Manion committed two statutory aggravating factors and should be executed. They say the stakes could not be higher. The United States government intends to kill Mr. Manion as a political stunt. The attorney general compounded this prejudice by appearing on television on Sunday, April 6th, 2025, and stating that she has received death threats for seeking the death penalty. Right? I tried death penalty cases throughout my career. If there was ever a death case, this is one. This guy is charged with hunting down a CEO, a father of two, a married man, hunting him down and executing him. Yeah, I feel like these young people have have lost their way. I was receiving death threats for seeking the death penalty on someone who is charged with with an execution of a CEO. This guy's charged with a violent crime and we're going to seek the death

38:22 penalty whenever possible. So, they're saying like she has not given their client presumption of innocence and now she's making it worse by saying that I'm getting death threats for saying that we need to seek the death penalty. And then as for Pam Bondi saying that the victim was a CEO and that warrants that is one of the factors of why there should be capital punishment. The filing reads, "The attorney general stated during her television appearance that a reason she ordered the death penalty sentence was because the alleged victim was a CEO.

38:52 Council is aware of no provision in the death penalty statute or in the Department of Justice's death penalty protocol that allows for consideration of the social, economic, or professional status of an alleged homicide victim in determining whether to seek the death penalty. The drama. The drama, right? The prosecutors are arguing this is like the whole thing with the backpack search, the fourth amendment rights at the McDonald's, which I do feel like fourth amendment rights are just like the first rights that every single attorney has to argue in any sort of criminal case, which is like you weren't supposed to search any of my belongings.

39:29 Now, the number one problem is the prosecutors are saying that when the Altuna police arrived, they already had his fake ID. So, he had already given his fake ID. So at that point technically like they're allowed to search his stuff, right? But this is the defense. The fact that they believed that Mr. Manion was the person wanted for murder does not change the analysis nor provide the necessary exigency to overcome this fatal police error. First, the shooting happened 5 days earlier and the police had no reason to believe that the alleged shooter was still armed.

40:01 Second, even if the police had reason to believe he may be armed, any exigency disappeared after patrolman Deweiler frisked Mr. Mr. Manion for weapons, moved the bag 6 ft away, and had armed officers strategically placed between Mr. Manion and the backpack. The exigency was certainly removed once Mr. Manion was handcuffed and surrounded by officers, which they continue on the next page. They say, "While Patrolman Waser claimed that she was searching the backpack to make sure there was no bomb inside, this excuse did not reflect any legitimate exigency. First, nothing about the alleged shooting in New York where law enforcement's interactions with Mr. Manion in the McDonald's provided a reasonable basis to believe that there was a bomb in the backpack.

40:41 Second, the patrol woman did not make this claim until after she had already been searching through the backpack and after she recovered a loaded magazine. Tellingly, she stopped searching the backpack at the McDonald's once she recovered the loaded magazine. If one were legitimately concerned about a bomb, one would have either continued searching right then and there or cleared the McDonald's and have called in and waited for the bomb squad to arrive before searching the bag. Neither of which occurred. Certainly, one would not have continued searching the bag in a McDonald's filled with officers, employees, and customers or put the bag in their car to transport the potential bomb to the precinct. They're going off.

41:19 I don't know if any of it's going to work, but they're saying it all. This is not the first time a prosecutor's office has tried to fit the square peg of murder into the round hole of terrorism. Yeah. Damn. Oh, this is also interesting though. The people's stated reason for not turning over discovery and for at some unknown future time seeking a protective order is that Mr. Manion is somehow responsible for quote harassment, backlash, and death threats to certain people. So, they're saying there's no evidence of that. But on December 9th, 2024, when he was arrested, among the first words out of Mr. Manion's mouth was an apology and a concern for the very McDonald's employee who they are saying now is receiving threats. Quoting from their notice, quote, I apologize for the inconvenience of the day, followed by, "They aren't going to put the cashier from McDonald's information out there, are they? It wouldn't be good

42:13 for her. A lot of people will be upset I was arrested." Wow. This is the very opposite of someone who is seeking to terrorize anyone or wishing harm or violence to anyone is what they're saying. Also, like there was a whole thing because they found um notes in his socks. What exactly happened there? Yeah, the defense um they put notes in the socks. Well, like there was notes in his socks. Who put it in there? The note um was written by the free Luigi Reddit thread. But we don't put it in the socks. How did they get into his socks?

42:48 I don't know, but it was like a heart-shaped pink letter. And it was like a letter of support. I have no idea how it got in their sock. And when was it in his sock? When he was arrested. No, like when he had to change for a court hearing. Someone slipped it into his sock. Yeah. Or like it could have been like an honest mistake. It's So this is the part where she's saying like the journal that they're calling his manifesto. We have never been provided copies. They had actors playing Luigi on television. It doesn't sound anything like him anyway. So, um, they're talking about the HBO thing.

43:24 This week on HBO in a documentary, I see the chief of detectives and the New York City mayor, full hair and makeup done, sitting down and giving an interview for television and talking about the evidence in Luigi's case, talking about police paperwork that we don't have, talking about forensics that we have not yet received. I guess we have now today, but I didn't when I was sitting there learning about the case, hearing an actor play Luigi, reading from a journal that they say is Luigi's, and we have yet to receive it from the prosecution.

44:00 Yeah, cuz the New York City mayor and NYPD, they sat down with HBO and she was like, Eric Adams be putting going through hair and makeup. Oh, yes. I've seen that. Yeah, this guy showed up last time. Yes. They say he's a conservative activist. So I Is this just like the calm before the storm? Because everyone on our team that's there right now at the courthouse at team night is like 12 hours. They're saying it's fine. It's chill. My name is Jar Valan. People don't really understand what goes on unless you have like a sensational enough trial that it gets televised or it gets meticulously documented, but that's not the case for the most part. I have an obsession with trying to document trials meticulously.

44:54 I like mango. Amazing. What's your name again? Abil. It's like April but in Spanish. Tomorrow we have death penalty action coming and they just announced their like collaboration with Luigi's bookshop which is basically instead of buying on Amazon you can buy on bookshop.org and part of the proceeds go to his um cases. My name is Lena. I'm from Los Angeles and this is a book I just brought to read in line called health communism. The shooting death of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. Alice Gator covers where she'll be at tomorrow's hearing.

45:30 Alice, what are you hearing about what we can expect? So, there's a Okay, so we're in front of the courthouse. The press line is across the street. You have all of the news stations. I feel like I didn't vlog at all during the Shanomes case because we weren't allowed to even bring our phones into the courtroom. You have to check them so I would never even bring it. But this is the news stations and then you've got the whole public line set up over there.

46:39 Look at me. How you feeling? How you doing? Good. Heat. Heat. How you feeling? is that almost every single Stop denying. People are dying. Stop denying. People are dying. Stop denying. People are dying. People have to die. Not denials when they die. How many people have to die? How many people have to die? What do we want? Free healthare. When do we want it now? What do we want? Free healthcare. When do we want it now? We don't shut it down. Hey. Hey. H. This has got to go. H. This has got to go. Hey. Hey. Ho ho. has got to go.

48:57 For justice, we will fight. This is a legal right. For justice, we will fight. To process is a legal right. We must fight. Healthcare is a human right. Good queen. We must fight. Healthcare is a human right. Good queen. We must fight. Healthcare is a human right. Good. We must fight. Healthcare is a human right. Good. We must fight. my human rights. What do we want? Free. When do we want it? Now. What do we want? Free. When do we want it? Now. What do we want? Free Luigi. When do we want it? Now. What do we want? Free Luigi.

49:37 When do we want it? Now. United. Will never be defeated. The people. United will never be defeated. The people. We are back from the hearing. I will say before going to the hearing, we we spoke with POPNYC, which I encourage you guys to go follow them on Instagram, as well as Renegade for Justice. They've been organizing a lot of the protest outside. Like, they're mainly focused on the goals of reforming healthcare. These are activists who spend really any ounce of free time that they have outside of full-time jobs to try and make a change so that you and I can probably live in a better world. And I think right now is a very critical time to join them, support them, see how we can be helpful. But before even going to the hearing, we spoke with a lot of different people from lots of different organizations who were involved in trying to spread messages and organizing protests. And there have been lots of conversations

50:31 because it doesn't really take a very astute person to realize that mainstream media coverage on this case has been very interesting. And I thought I thought maybe I live in a bubble because I don't know if it's I'm just chronically online and I'm just always on TikTok and I'm like, well, I've seen good coverage about this case. I I mean, more often than not, mainstream media has bizarre coverage about the case or they're maybe focus on the wrong things, but I have seen lots of coverage on the case. I did not realize how hostile it was going to be until we got to the hearing. And I don't even think when I got out of the hearing I could even process the thoughts correctly. So, I'm just going to describe to you some of the parts that I've noticed that really stuck out to me. The press line and the public line outside of the courthouse.

51:17 Unlike previous trial that we've been to, it was divided already into two separate lines. And you could immediately tell that it was two separate lines. I mean, lots of people on the public side were dressed in organized t-shirts. Like, it seemed like everybody was on the same page. It was really well organized. On the press side, everybody was dressed more like members of the press would normally dress. And for the hearing, they allowed a good chunk of the press in. The courtroom was much larger than the federal courtrooms that I've seen. So instead of just like a few rows of press, there were I think closer to 10 rows of press.

51:49 Oh wow. And I maybe only spoke to a handful of independent reporters there. Almost everyone in the rows of I want to say like if I had to take a guesstimate and don't hold me to this, I want to say at least eight to nine press pews were just legacy media. Mhm. And they were on the reserve list. So this is in New York State. You get on this reserve list and most of it is legacy media. And I know this because I was we stood in line for 48 hours. Well, not we physically but like the Rotten Mango team. Like we had organized this so like people we could interchange and it was a mess. But we were there for 48 hours before the hearing so that we could secure the first few spots because those are always like the best time to get in and see what's going on. They have a reserve list. So before anybody who waits first come first serve, they will go through the reserve list. So if a reporter from a legacy media who's on

52:46 that reserve list shows up 5 minutes before the hearing, they get to cut the line. Mhm. And they get priority. They have a whole list and they check. So, I'm in the like beginning of the line. So, every time someone comes up, that list is gone through and they're like, "Okay, what media are you with?" And it was just all legacy media. I mean, I saw a lot of people that I remember from the last trial and lots of friendly faces, lots of reporters that I really enjoy spending time with and I respect and they're such kind people and they're compassionate and they're here to do a job, but also some really insane people.

53:19 I will say even that reserve list was a little strange. It was a little strange because if you know anything about the Luigi Manion case or the People v Luigi Manion case because he has three different pending trials. There has been a very vocal complaint by people of wanting independent journalists to have access. And I'm not saying I'm an independent journalist. I I'm literally just a girl online. So just people who are not part of Legacy Media who have to go with certain messages anytime they report on the news or like filter through certain checkpoints. A lot of people wanted independent journalists in there and for them to have this very long lengthy reserve list of legacy media that are allowed priority I thought was very interesting especially in regards to this specific case. But regardless of press were allowed in which is always a good sign. Only two rows of public were allowed in and from

54:13 the moment that we got to the courthouse the morning to get in there was a clash between the press and the public. It felt very strange. There was heavy, heavy NYPD presence. There were two cops walking past me and I guess they were trying to understand why the public line was so long and one of the cops just turns to the other and says, "He's a good-looking guy." And they just like walk away. So, which is fair, but that's like the most normal comment of the day. So, I'm standing in line with a lot of members of the press and I felt like I felt confused. So, the Rotten Mango team and I were thinking about it and we were like, "This is very strange. So most of the press, I think they handled themselves very professionally and they were just like normal people doing their jobs and they were incredible reporters there, incredible journalists there and like we were lucky to be in their presence. But at the same time there

55:01 were certain members of the press where it just felt like they showed a lot more grace to the defendant Shan Combmes than the defendant Luigi Manion. And I feel like across the board it should be like the same level most of the time, right? And maybe it has to do with the fact that Luigi Manion is charged with murder and Shan Combmes was charged with trafficking and RICO charges and those he was acquitted of. But at the time when that trial was happening in real time, we did not know that he was going to be acquitted. There was video evidence of him, you know, harming Cassie in the hallways. There was domestic violence that was caught on CCTV camera. And so there were all of these different elements just as the Meion case. There's all these different elements. But it was interesting to see how people showed a lot more grace and benefit of the doubt and presumption of innocence for Shawn Combmes than they

55:53 did for Luigi Manion, which I thought was interesting because there's actually a lot more hard concrete evidence against Shawn Combmes at the time. I mean, that CCTV video was everywhere of him committing a violent act with his face in full view. Whereas, you know, the Luigi Manion CCTV outside the Hilton Hotel, some people argue you can't really see his face. So, that will all be discussed in the trial. That's what people are saying. So, I thought it was very interesting that they showed a lot more grace to Shawn Combmes. And then when they get here for the Luigi case, there was just a lot of crazy words, a lot of crazy comments just like being thrown about, which was fascinating. I think one interesting thought that I had was we were talking to organizers of the protest before we even got to the hearing. The way that they are so committed to trying to change different policies in the United States to make

56:48 sure that everyone has access to health care and quite literally just like save people's lives. That's all they talk about. That's their message. I don't know how they even stay so resilient amongst everything that's going on. But then the way that they get there and all the mainstream media reporters are like, "Hey, get the girl that says she's dating AI Luigi and we're just going to put her on every platform." I will say some media have been better at reporting about the protest and how people don't want capital punishment, how people want to reform healthcare, but the way like the influx of media was like these people waited 30 hours to see Luigi Manion. Aren't they crazy? And I was just thinking it's also crazy because a lot of members of the press wait over 24 hours to get into high-profile cases.

57:40 Yeah. So, how are we different? It just felt weird to say they're fan girls, but we're doing our job. It just was so strange. And yes, a lot of the people in the public line, they did wait 30 hours. And some of them had t-shirts that had Luigi's face on them or they like they had Luigi's Pizzeria t-shirts. And like while I do think it's kind of I don't know, some people might say inappropriate, I just thought that it was more in tune with maybe a younger person's like it just felt very Jenzy humor. A lot of the reporters were just not running with it. They were actively out loud vocally making fun of the people in public and then they would walk over and try to interview the people in public line and then they would walk back and say, "I don't know why they don't want to talk to me." And I'm like, "Oh, um, I could probably list you like five reasons just in the past 2 minutes of things you've said." Like, it

58:35 just it was very confusing. And I also thought it just felt very hypocritical. And I was kind of shocked by this once we got to the second line. So that's like the main line outside the courthouse. Then we get funneled in. We had to wait in the very cramped hallway. So one side was reserved for the press. Everybody's like cramped to one side. And then the other side is the very short line for public access. They let in even fewer people from the public side. And I was just standing there and I'm just like I'm kind of eavesdropping.

59:03 And I hear theos, the Luigi's defense team. They walk in. The elevator's kind of in front of us. We can't really see them. They walk into the courtroom, and then we're going to be led into the courtroom later. So, it's going to be the prosecutors walk in, the defense team walk in, press walk in, public walk-in, and then Luigi will be escorted in once the hallways are completely cleared of everyone except for the press pit. The press pit is where there's like a little barricade, rope barricade, and the press cameras are set up.

59:33 Everybody's live streaming. Like, those are all the shots that you saw. And we actually had someone we had someone from the Rotten Mango team in the press pit who also took a video. But those are the press pits. Everyone that's not in there gets cleared out of the hallway. Luigi Manion gets walked into the courtroom and then the judge comes in. So that's kind of the order of things. The defense team, they walk out of the elevator bay and now they're in the hallway walking towards the courtroom away from us. I mean, you're just waiting in the hallway for like an hour trying to get into the courtroom. Of course, when the defense team walks in, you want to get a good look. And these are high-profile defense attorneys. These are people that have been in the public eye. I think it's interesting to even watch them in their element. They're very captivating to watch. And so I'm kind of like looking

1:00:15 and I hear a reporter from Legacy Media look over at the girls in public. And it was like predominantly I think it was all girls and she goes, "Look at them. Look at them craning their necks to get a view." And I was like, "I mean I'm also craning my neck to get a view." Like that seems like a very normal thing to do in this instance. Like we have nothing to do right now. We're just waiting to get in the courtroom and these are high-profile defense attorney. Yeah. I I think everyone wants to see them. Yeah. So, it's just very strange. And then there was I overheard another discussion of people talking about, "Doesn't it smell like weed?" I hear one reporter being like, "Doesn't it smell like weed?" And I remember being like, "Do I have sinus problems?" I don't smell weed. I smelt weed outside the courthouse because it's the streets of New York City. You smell weed everywhere. But inside the courthouse, I

1:01:04 smelt zero weed. And the reporter next to them goes, "It reeks of weed. It like reeks of marijuana." And they're like, "Uh, that could be a headline." And I that could be a headline. What headline? Yeah, probably Luigi Manion supporters wait 30 hours, wreak of weed. And I'm just like again, what is happening right now? Like the public have been nothing but so chill. And actually, they're like here, yes, to support the defendant. And you can disagree with that all you want. Like totally, you can absolutely objectively say that's against my morals. That's everyone's own opinion.

1:01:43 Okay. But like it it was weird. It's like that's not what they're doing. That's not even what's happening. I'm seeing this with my own two eyes. That's not what's happening. I'm confused. I'm sniffing it with my own two nostrils. That's not what's what's happening at all. And then later, even when we left the courthouse, a lot of the coverage just made it seem like a lot of these people are crazy. I will say maybe mainstream media was a little bit better this time around, which is really good and maybe hopeful for the trial, but they were showing some people protesting for healthcare, but a lot of it still was on girls waited 30 hours. Girls waited 30 hours. And I was like, I don't know.

1:02:18 These girlies look like they have a cause. like these girlies look like they're here for a mission. And like you could disagree, you could agree, but it wasn't it just did not align with what I witnessed. Yeah, it did not align at all with what I witnessed. Even inside the courthouse, because this is state court, you are allowed to have your electronics as members of the press. So, you can bring in your phone. Uh federal court, you can not even bring in your phone. You can bring in your phone. You can actually work on your laptop in the press pews.

1:02:43 Um if you're a member of the press and you have your press badge on, you cannot record. You cannot film. You cannot like be on the phone. You actually can't have your phone out. Like you can have it in your bag. You can only have your laptop out. And I think it's because the laptop usually the camera is just towards you, right? And so that's the whole rules. I feel like there were phones going off in the press pews. Meanwhile, the public there was nothing. They did not like nothing happened. No phones are going off. Everybody was showing the most decorum in a courtroom.

1:03:18 And even when the officer first walks in, before Luigi walks in, he's like, "No outburst." And he's like mainly talking to the public side. Mhm. And I'm like, I don't even think the no one wants to have an outburst. Like they seem like they're they seem like they're taking it serious than most of the press pews. So I'm like, okay, I don't know. Maybe the last one there were outbursts. I don't know. But it just seems like they don't look like they're about to have an outburst. And so they're just like on their best behavior. And I thought it was kind of unfair that they get labeled as like crazy girls who wait 30 hours for Luigi. And it's like, okay, well, the press also wait like 30 hours to get into high-profile cases. And like they will fight to the death to like cut each other in line to get into these high-profile cases. So like technically we're all the same people. Like it's fine. Like we don't have to make fun of

1:04:07 each other. Everyone's just here to either do their job or be here for a reason that maybe you don't understand. But that's fine. like you don't have to be so crazy about it. And I will say like the public was really guarded with the press and I totally get it. Like I totally get why it people you say like literally nobody want wants to talk to the press openly. Yeah. And we were actually really lucky cuz we were like going in throughout the day. Um, even the day previously before the hearing and during the night like we had members going in and out of the like not the courthouse but from the line and we were talking to people and we told them that we were with Rotten Mango and they seemed a little more open to talk but like I can totally see why a lot of people felt guarded and it just and I also noticed what was interesting is a lot of legacy media they're looking for the people in public

1:05:06 that are dressed the craziest and those are the people that they want to talk to. They don't want to talk to the protesters with very legitimate signs. I thought the focus of every piece was so weird. There was another reporter who was sitting next to me who was working on his article before the hearing started and it was just talking about how there was there was one person outside the courthouse and I think they had a sign uh I think I took a picture of it that said something along the lines of, you know, protect Luigi G. Manion before protecting parasites. Something to do with the word parasites.

1:05:44 And when you have protest signs, they're supposed to be highly emotionally charged. That's kind of the purpose of it. And they were just like really focused on the word parasite in connection with the victim, Brian Thompson. So, it seemed like that was their whole piece of how these protesters are calling a murder victim a parasite. And like I do understand how that can be shocking, right? But I think it's a small it's like if you were to look at a giant puzzle and then just only focus on one piece when it's like I do think that maybe that one piece is not a great piece. We don't know, right? It's really subjective. But when you look at the whole puzzle, there's like a lot more going on. But it felt like that was the sole focus. So it seemed like everybody was hyperfocused on something and it just felt very strange to witness it firsthand in real time where I was just so confused. A lot of the protesters

1:06:43 were also giving out these stickers. They were giving out stickers. They were giving out pamphlets. And I think the stickers are like a thing people do at protests. It's a sticker. Like enjoy your sticker. If you don't want a sticker, it's not a big deal. But a lot of the reporters are like making a big deal about the fact that they have stickers. And I'm like, do you also know that they have pamphlets that you can also get? So, it just seemed like they were focused on one thing and like hyperfocused on only one thing. It got to the point where I don't even think some members of the press I could even have conversations with about this case because it's like I just feel like it's weird. Like this is so passionate of like so firmly one when you're technically supposed to go in.

1:07:30 Yeah. You're a reporter. You're just reporting what what what's going on rather than having your own little It's like I mean you go in there and like Yeah. I will admit there were there was a girl dressed up as Luigi and she was hitting the poses. Okay. She had an LED backpack on. She came in early. You know, they were like she was hitting the poses and it's like is that the best thing to do? I don't know. I don't know. Right. And it's it's fine to just see everything happening and then say these are all the things that happened. But it seemed like they were very hyperfocused on one very interesting story line that they kept going with. But regardless, we're inside of the courtroom and it's a big courtroom. I was very nervous because um lots of people had lots of things to say about this judge and just from the transcripts I read about this judge, he seemed like a no business judge. And we were just all waiting for

1:08:21 Luigi Manion to be walked in. And it was um it was like an oddly high tense moment. And the press pews, all of us were craning our necks to get a view of Luigi Manion, right? And so everybody's craning their necks cuz that's what you do. And the doors would open and you actually hear his shackles before you see him. And I think that was a very interesting moment because it's like dead silent in the courtroom and you just hear his shackles. Wow. And then he turns the corner, walks into the courtroom, and I'm not really sure what I was expecting. I don't really think I was expecting anything to be honest. I didn't really give it much thought, but I have seen obviously all the videos of him being escorted into courtrooms and like the footage of him in courtrooms. And this time he was dressed in like a beige sand colored prison uniform and he had shackles around he had the handcuffs that were

1:09:16 tied to his waist and you could hear the shackles on his ankles. And when he walked in I don't know if they just used cuz we're all sitting down. I don't know if they just picked the shortest court police officers but he was tall. He was much taller. And I know people are going to ask, and I don't think it has much to do with the defendant's looks or anything, but just because people are going to ask, I'm going to answer the questions before they're asked a million times in the comments. He was much taller than I expected. Like very tall to the point where I was like, I want to ask Mark Agnif how tall he is because he was like, even when he was standing next to the attorneys, he was very tall. So I'm like, okay, he's much taller than I expected. But one thing was interesting was and and okay, this was my very beloved researcher who was sitting next to me and she said afterwards if I'm going to be fully honest she's like I

1:10:08 thought going into it Luigi has almost become this persona like this person like this figure and so she thought going in there would be some element of underwhelmingness. remember she was like saying, you know, cuz you see people talking about him and you see these videos and you're like, "Okay, I'm going to go in and you're just going to realize he's just another person and like maybe there's it's even underwhelming because you people have these big ideas and visions of what people look like in person." Like a lot of people said Sean Combmes is going to look very aura. He's going to have this insane aura like this big bigger than life personality and then he just looks kind of like an old man.

1:10:46 He looks very intense but still ultimately kind of like an old man. And so she thought it was going to be like that, but she said that he is very tall. He's I mean he is very built. He's very buff. It seems like he got a lot more built than his last court appearance, but he has a very strong energy to him. Like his posture is impeccable. Yeah, I think his posture is Yes. But it's also the way he carried himself and it was interesting. If anything, I don't think he really looked at any of the pews. If anything, he might have. I don't think, but he might have looked at the public pews. But for the press pews, he was very reserved.

1:11:29 Did not look. He just looked ahead, went straight, sat down, and there were three police officers surrounding him on the back. So, nobody could really even see him throughout the hearing. And this is the hearing where they dropped the terrorism charges. The judge dropped the terrorism charges in New York State. These are the charges along with the federal prosecutors seeking capital punishment that people had the biggest problem with because it's one thing to either agree or disagree with Luigi Manion. It's another thing to feel like he's not getting fair treatment in the law because a lot of like I said a lot of mass killers don't get terrorism charges. So it didn't make sense. It almost felt like people were prioritizing a corporate CEO and so there was a lot of discourse about that.

1:12:17 Those charges got dropped. So ultimately the most severe case that he is facing in New York state court is secondderee murder which is like 15 to 25 years but he still has like all those weapons charges. And I don't know if I mean it's a big win but he's still facing capital punishment in his federal case. Yeah. which is, you know, which is everything that he's fighting for, right? I think the state cases, they're very important, but that federal case is probably the most important. And so the terrorism charges being dropped here is a big win, but I I I saw some people online made it seem like he's going to get off. I don't think that's the case.

1:12:58 I I think he has a very long uphill battle ahead of him, especially with the federal case. But the terrorism charges were dropped. the energy in the courtroom because the press were allowed to have their laptops. It was like a moment of pause and then just like everyone's typing away like live tweeting everything and then the public they're stoic. They are on their best behavior. They're like they got this on lock down. They're like we are not giving you a reason to write an article about us, okay? Even though you guys already are writing articles about us, we're going to No, it was crazy. like it was on lockdown. But then my researcher outside who was recording all of the protests outside, she was texting and she was like, "Everyone's cheering."

1:13:43 She's like texting into the group chat. She's like, "Everybody's cheering that the terrorism charges are dropped." So, it's very different energies inside the courthouse, outside the courtroom. It was just fascinating. And then um there were brief conversations about just dismissing the charges. There were brief conversations about the HIPPA violations, but none of that gets resolved. And like I know there's this one picture of Luigi Manion looking like, "What the hell is going on?" And people are like, "What did he hear to make him have that look?"

1:14:11 I think because we can't see very clearly. I think it was the hippo violation. That was not dropped. Yes. Like that was not even covered and settled. And I also think it's like the prosecutors being like, "No, we're not going to drop the charges. Like we're going to go." And then he gets walked out. I did notice something as he's walking out. He did kind of raise his eyebrows at the press pews like once. Like it was just like one like one eyebrow raise and it was just like given like right about that [ __ ] but like in like a it almost felt not that I agree. I don't even think that's what he's doing.

1:14:49 You know, I misread everything in life. I don't think that's what he's doing. But if that is what he's doing, it felt almost justified because of everything I had sat through and listened to all morning of the way that people were talking about this case and the way people were talking about even the public. I mean, people had way more hatefilled things to say about this public section than they did about people who showed up to support Shawn Combmes, like fans of Shawn Combmes. And I thought that was interesting because with the Combmes case, everybody saw that CCTV video and the presumption would be if you still show up to support him without having a personal connection, the underlying assumption would be you just really like his music. But with Luigi's case, it's like the presumption would be maybe you're upset about healthcare in America. Maybe like it's just like a little bit more complex, but it was the

1:15:41 way that they treated the people showing up for Luigi Manion as like the most simple-minded little girly pups. And I was like, I mean, that could be the case, but also you don't know that's the case. And like technically your job as a reporter is to either find out if that's the case or do something about it. Like you can't just like assume that's the case. It was just it was just weird. It was weird. And that was not the majority of reporters. I think 99.9% of them are incredibly just talented people that I can only aspire to have even an ounce of their abilities. But, you know, that's weird cuz, you know, we literally cover cases that people were they're fans of a killer because they look certain ways and usually those are still minorities.

1:16:31 Like people do not show up to support someone because they look certain ways. No. Like, so this is if that's the main message, then we're not getting the real story. Yeah. Right. And that was a lot of the main message that people saw. Um, I will say Tik Tok was way better about it. Tik Tok, there was a lot of just like memes that occurred afterwards. There were conversations of why he wasn't wearing court approved clothing like he had been in the previous hearings. Some people have conspiracies that not conspiracies but theories and speculations that his defense attorneys had brought this brown paper bag and they had brought clothes for him but because he had gotten a lot more built over the course of the past few months he was no longer able to fit in the court approved clothing. So that was one theory. Another theory was with everything happening in the US and all of the high-profile cases they were just

1:17:24 on extra lockdown and they would not allow him to be in court approved clothing. And then there is another theory that it's because of sock gate. You know, those little heart messages that were in his socks. So, it was kind of a mixture of those. It's unclear. They didn't really go over it during the hearing. So, I'm not entirely sure, but he was in his prison uniform. And those uniforms are super viral in Chinese social media now. Yes. So, Chinese nizens um they actually I was actually intrigued because um and I think it has to do with the country obviously. A lot of the people that support Luigi Manion in the United States are supporting Luigi Manion because of healthc care reform because this affects us on our daily lives and our family members who all live in the United States and have healthcare in the United States. Chinese nizens, they're like, "Hey, we got our own healthcare.

1:18:14 We don't care about your health care system. We call him Lulu." So that's his nickname in China. And a lot of people say that color of the prison uniform is the color of the season now. And so a lot of designers in China are now incorporating the sand colored uniform to like all of their looks. And there's just like a lot of internet comments that are doing internet things. There is a Tik Tok going around of a reporter talking about the case and all of the fan girls and um POP NYC they have these LED trucks that drive around the courthouse during the hearing. Like I would say they they changed the screens and most of it is talking about healthcare, how to get informed, how to get involved, how to try to make a difference. And then some of them just have like Luigi's face on there while they're like spreading facts about how to make a difference and like how to assist in these protests. And one of

1:19:05 them is him like kind of side eyeing and that truck is just driving by the reporter as she's actively talking about him and people are like a drive by mug is insane. And again, like these are people who do take cases seriously, but at the same time, it's just like Gen Z humor. And I feel like Legacy Media has not caught on to that because even the Reddit comments, like Legacy Media would have a heart attack and all the Reddit comments are like, "Not a bad angle. There's not a single bad angle of this man, which is crazy. That's what people are saying. I don't know." Okay, there are other people commenting that they need to put taller guards with him because putting all these short guards with him are not doing the prosecutors any favors. People are commenting that.

1:19:49 Yeah, people are commenting, "I miss my husband." Like, there's a lot of interesting comments. Okay. And I think a lot of these people take cases in the United States very seriously. They take healthc care conversations very seriously. I saw someone in the Chinese platform. There's a shot of him uh someone flashlight it so it's like super dramatic with his shadow casting on the wall and people are like damn even his shadow looks good. Yeah. Like people are making jokes. Does that mean that they don't take anything seriously? No. I think it's just like I mean it's the internet.

1:20:25 It's the internet. Like what can we do about it? There's nothing we can do about it. He's in the courtroom for like 10 15 minutes and then he is escorted back out. I think there was a moment um from what I saw online of people who were in the public pews, they said that it seemed like he was trying to look at the people in public briefly, but it seemed like the the court officer pulled on him. And then there was a moment where like I don't know, I don't think it looked like it hurt, but they were saying like it almost looked like he rolled his eyes, but it was not because he's like rolling his eyes at the public, but it was like there was like a yank and pull situ. I couldn't see from my angle, but that would make a lot of sense because these court officers were genuinely acting like this is Hannibal Lectar.

1:21:13 Watch out. And I was like, I mean, yes, there are very serious charges on the indictment, but like this is crazy energy. This is a lot of energy right now. Like, it was a lot. It was intense. Like, I've never seen that many court officers on one floor at once. Yeah. And another thing that was very interesting was we had a team member that was in the press pit. So she is trying to take photos in the hallway. So she was taking a photo and video of Luigi walking down the hallway into the courtroom. We were in the courtroom, right?

1:21:46 And she was saying one thing that was so fascinating and she's like, I don't know if it depicts in the videos. I'm sure it does. You know, she's telling us I'm sure it does, but you know, defense, you guys saw them walk in. And we're like, yeah. And she's like, "You could barely see them." Like, I couldn't even get Karen on camera cuz she's walking so fast. Like they're just like, "Boom, in and out, in and out." I'm like, "Hold on. Can you walk a little slower?" And then Luigi Manion, they're just like dragging him. Okay. So, like same thing.

1:22:13 It's like happening so quick, so quick. And she said, "I don't know what the prosecutors are doing." But when they were walking down the hallway, she said it was like like people joke about the Met Gala online. And she was like, "I thought it was a joke, but they're like shaking hands with every court officer that's like guarding the hallway from Hannibal Lectar. They're just like the slowest walk." It's like slow motion football team headed onto the court field, I don't know, whatever. And she thought it was the weirdest thing ever.

1:22:48 And she was like, I also didn't like want to get so much video of them because nobody even knows them and nobody cares. So she was like it just like was so long for what? Like she was saying it was not normal. So that's why a lot of people are saying again, yeah, maybe these prosecutors are all fighting to get the first bite at Luigi Manion. And again, regardless of if you agree or disagree with what he is accused and has allegedly done, it's, you know, when the justice system is unfair to one person, that one person could be you the next day. That one person could be a loved one the next day. So, they're just saying like regardless of how you feel, if it's unfair, it's unfair and that's not how it should work. I will say even when the prosecutors walked into the courtroom, Mhm.

1:23:31 I was like, why why are all of y'all here? Okay, so first of all, it's a hearing. It's a hearing. And uh only two prosecutors were in like the bullpen, I think. Okay, maybe two or three. They were in the bullpen and one of them had their phone horizontal before Luigi came in and I was like, is he watching a live stream right now? I don't know. I don't know. It just kind of was the vibe. It was the vibe, but I don't know. My eyes are not super laser, you know, 40 eyesight. I couldn't see, but it was horizontal, which was weird.

1:24:02 Like, are you watching a video right now? What's happening? What video could you possibly be watching right before a hearing that's more pertinent than the hearing unless it be a live stream, right? And so, I thought that was very interesting cuz he was just like this. And another thing that was odd is, and I know I keep referencing this trial, and it's like my recent experience obviously, and hopefully as I get more experience, I can reference other trials, but in the federal case, which are usually more high-profile cases, like the Shan's case, you had all the prosecutors, like six of them, and they would get they all sit in the bullpen.

1:24:33 So, they're all working on this case. They're like the prosecutors on this case. So, there were only two for Luigi's New York State hearing, but a whole row of them filled up on the very first row on the prosecution side. So, they're not participating. And I'm sure they're working on this case heavy, but it was like, I don't know if all of you guys needed to show up like full row deep because even for the federal case, there are other prosecutors who are working on the case that are not part of the six. Mhm. And those prosecutors will show up like remember how I was saying they're like two rows ahead of the press pews and really they only show up on really big days of the trial and that's the trial.

1:25:14 Oh, you're observing. Yeah. Like they show up huge witness testimonies. They show up on big cross- examination days. Like they're not there most of the time because they're working on the case probably, right? but a full row and I they walked in like like they were on an episode of Suits and I was like looking at the defense attorneys and I was like it just was a different energy. Also, I did overhear Karen Agnif. Um, listen, Mark Agnif, I know people have thoughts about him obviously because he does represent a lot of interesting people, including um Keith Reeri, like lots of interesting clients previously. Karen Agnif worked primarily as a prosecutor for a very long time before becoming a defense attorney. She is a very fascinating person. Like her aura is also crazy crazy. Okay, like I said, Mark has like a teddy bear aura, which he really let his wife do everything on this case.

1:26:11 Like she is lead lead counsel and she was standing there and they like to observe the courtroom before Luigi Manion comes in. And I guess someone had whispered to her, "Are you nervous?" Because the first thing I can distinctly hear her say is, "I'm not nervous. Why would I be?" And it was like it was not like a why would I be? Like it was just it was just like pure confidence. like I have nothing to be concerned about. It was giving like there is nothing for me to be nervous about. Not like me, but like our side of the case to be nervous about, which I thought was very interesting. And so it was just a very different aura from the prosecutors coming in like a row and a half deep doing a very long walk down the hallway.

1:26:57 And that's interesting. Potentially watching the live stream after. Mhm. And like as someone who's trying to get on that reserve list, should I be saying this? Probably not. But here we are. So I it was a crazy hectic day. And so updates on this case. Terrorism charges have been dropped. Um, there was a lot of hope and I think the defense attorneys are pushing for the state, New York State case to be dropped entirely because I mean, oh wow, seconddegree murder charges, it's like come on, he's facing capital punishment in the federal court. Like, you want to spend all that taxpayer money to be doing all of this right now and clearly lots of prosecutors are working on this case and there's so many cases in New York and I think this is where people can be mad collectively. Like again, you can hate Luigi Manion, you can love Luigi Manion, who cares? But it's the fact that you're using taxpayer money to go

1:27:54 so hard on this case and there are so many unsolved cases in New York. There are so many families like waiting for answers in New York and you're like, "No, let me pour so much more resources on this case that even the federal court is also trying simultaneously." It just feels like Yeah, the Fed's already doing this. Like, why are we doing this double triple times? Yeah. It's like and again on taxpayer money when you can be focused on other cases or is it the fact that you don't care and you just want a high-profile case under your belt because if that's the case you're not for the people are you? So that's been like a huge thing.

1:28:28 Um they just want the case dropped in New York State cuz they're like it's not like he's going to go free. Like he's facing capital punishment. Like come on, right? I don't think that's going to happen. The prosecutors have already stated um at the hearing and later to media like they're going to still pursue seconddegree murder. Wow. As well as the weapons charges. And that the next hearing for them will be December 1st. The federal hearing is December 4th and probably sometime December. We're finally hopefully going to figure out which case starts first, which case proceeds first and um where that's going to go from there. I do know that he has a hearing in November in Pennsylvania, which like I said, there was like that whole argument of can he come in person. The feds are like absolutely not. It's been a back and forth, but it seems that he will not be attending that hearing. So, it seems

1:29:21 like right now it's really between New York State and the feds of who goes first with most people assuming it's going to be the federal case. And that's just what I've been hearing even in with like the press members. They're just saying it seems like it's going to be the federal case. So, that will be probably hopefully there will be some updates in December, but we will just have to see and that is where we are with this case. I do think that it was very interesting um to go and attend the hearing. Definitely follow POPNYC Renegade for Justice. I think even as the trial proceeds, it's going to be really important to find a lot of different sources that are maybe not aligned with Legacy Media just to see and make sure that you're getting thorough and fair coverage of the case.

1:30:10 So, keep an eye out for that and be safe. I will see you guys in the next one. What do we want? Free. When do we want it? Now. And if we don't get it, shut it down. If we don't get it, shut it down. We don't get it. Shut it down.

1:31:38 For justice, we will fight. To process is a legal right. For justice, we will fight. To process is a legal right. For justice, we we must fight. Healthcare is a human right. Court, we must fight. Healthcare is a human right. Court, we must fight. People have to die. To stop denials with How many people have to die? Stop denial. Could they die? How many people have to die? Free healthare. Free healthare. Healthcare is a human right. Healthcare is a human right. The people united will never be defeated. The people united will never be defeated.

1:32:27 The people. Free Luigi, free. We want it now. What do we want? Freedom. What do we want it now? What do we want? What do we want now? You got to push in, please. down. We don't get it. We don't get it. We don't get it. Shut it down. This corporate green has got to go. This corporate green has got to go.

Questions about this episode

What is "I Saw Luigi Mangione In Court, And This Is EVERYTHING He Did" about?

Luigi Manion faces multiple criminal charges across different jurisdictions following the shooting death of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson in December 2024. He is charged with serious offenses, including various degrees of murder and weapon possession, as authorities in Pennsylvania and New York engage in a jurisdictional dispute over who will prosecute his case.

What is mentioned in this Rotten Mango episode?

119 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Luigi Manion, Brian Thompson, New York State, Rotten Mango, Karen Agnifil, Pennsylvania. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "I Saw Luigi Mangione In Court, And This Is EVERYTHING He Did"?

The episode runs 1 h 33 min; the transcript is about 16,344 words in 122 timestamped sections.

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