The Most inspiring coach in football? | P.J Fleck’s Turnaround Blueprint

What this episode is about

The discussion centers around P.J. Fleck's coaching philosophy, emphasizing the importance of leadership and cultural teachings in football and life. Key points include the necessity of resilience, the role of mentorship, and the impact of personal tragedy on his coaching approach, underscoring the importance of perseverance and personal growth in the face of challenges.

Key takeaways

• Elite teams thrive on cultural cohesion; it's not just talent, it's unity that propels them.
• Perspective often emerges from adversity; like a ship, you find your true direction during storms.
• Mentorship isn't just a nod to the past; it's the compass that guides future generations.
• Great coaches teach hard truths while players embrace the grind; that's how champions are forged.
• Every setback is a setup for a comeback; learn to 'row the boat' when facing life's challenges.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Ryan Hawk (Host) · 20 min speaking
• P.J. Fleck (Guest) · 46 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Jim Trestle, PJ Fleck, Mike Nolan, Northern Illinois Huskies
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Minnesota, Western Michigan, Cotton Bowl, Mike Nolan
3. 20:00 – 30:00: Minnesota
4. 30:00 – 40:00: PJ Fleck, Western Michigan, Navy SEAL
5. 40:00 – 50:00: Navy SEAL
6. 50:00 – 1:00:00: George Floyd, Navy SEAL, Gopher for Life
7. 1:00:00 – 1:05:10: Minnesota

Notable quotes from "The Most inspiring coach in football? | P.J Fleck’s Turnaround Blueprint"

• University Bobcats. We're struggling. We go up north to Northern Illinois and we're playing against the undefeated Northern Illinois Huskies, number 17 in the country. Have a…

  about Northern Illinois Huskies · at 1:10

• Great question. yeah, Jim Trestle and Mike Nolan are two of the greatest influences of my life. Jim Trestle hired me. I got cut from the Niners and they the story goes together because.

  about PJ Fleck · at 5:56

• Thing I got this thing down I think. long story short we lose in the national title but those two men I wear a tie because they both wore a tie and I wouldn't be where I am…

  about Jim Trestle · at 8:06

• You'd had some just unimaginable tragedy in your personal life leading up to that moment. then you get a head coaching job. You're at Western Michigan 2013 and you go 1 and 11…

  about Western Michigan · at 10:20

• Philanthropy side. and then, you become I was 32 years old. I was the youngest head football coach in the country and I'm coming straight from the National Football League as a…

  about Tampa Bay Buccaneers · at 12:19

• The Cotton Bowl. anybody asked me, Are you willing to come out here? No, I'm not willing to come out there. I'm coaching in the Cotton Bowl. You can get me after the Cotton…

  about Cotton Bowl · at 15:30

• Stop and pick up and recycle the crap and get it better. So, that was what she asked me. And then we stay in Minnesota because we have a great life here. There's a difference…

  about Minnesota · at 16:40

• Here. and so, when George Floyd was killed about 5 miles from here, our players created what they call the here initiative, helping end racism through education. And because…

  about George Floyd · at 58:18

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• PJ Fleck — Person · Main guest · 5 mentions · first at 1:51
  Primary interview subject discussing his leadership philosophy, 'Row the Boat' culture, mentoring influences, and how he runs Minnesota football.
• Jim Trestle — Person · Referenced mentor · 5 mentions · first at 5:40
  Presented as a foundational mentor who hired Fleck early and shaped his people-first leadership style; Fleck honors him by wearing a sideline tie.
• Mike Nolan — Person · Referenced mentor · 4 mentions · first at 5:47
  Cited as a key influence on Fleck's communication style—especially transparency and delivering hard truths with grace—after cutting him and offering him a coaching job.
  Great question. yeah, Jim Trestle and Mike Nolan are two of the greatest influences of my life. Jim Trestle hired me. I got cut from the Niners and they the story goes together because.
• George Floyd — Person · Referenced public figure (context for program initiative) · 2 mentions · first at 58:21
  Mentioned as the catalyst for Minnesota players creating an anti-racism education initiative; used to explain Fleck's 'transformational' programming and monthly racism education course.

Companies & orgs

• Western Michigan — Company · Referenced institution · 4 mentions · first at 10:30
  Mentioned as the university where PJ Fleck first became a head coach.
• Northern Illinois Huskies — Company · Referenced team · 2 mentions · first at 1:19
  Mentioned as the undefeated team that PJ Fleck played for against Ohio University.
• Ohio University — Company · Referenced institution · 1 mention · first at 1:08
  Mentioned as the university where the host played quarterback and faced PJ Fleck's team.
  I'm playing quarterback for the Ohio University Bobcats. We're struggling. We go up north to Northern Illinois and we're playing against the undefeated Northern Illinois Huskies, number 17 in.
• Tampa Bay Buccaneers — Company · Referenced team · 2 mentions · first at 6:02
  Mentioned as the NFL team where PJ Fleck coached before becoming a head coach.

Concepts & topics

• Gopher for Life — Concept · Program · 1 mention · first at 57:20
  Mentioned as a program at Minnesota to develop players beyond football.
  System and what doesn't. but the transformational piece like we still do, okay, I'll give you an example like we do gopher for life program. Okay, so every month we're doing a…
• Navy SEAL — Concept · Referenced concept · 5 mentions · first at 34:15
  Mentioned as an example of elite mindset and training.
  Very reactionary team. you have a very like frontr running team. and I don't want any of that. So, I want to train a response in every area of your life that you're more built…

Places & events

• Minnesota — Place · Headquarters · 9 mentions · first at 3:46
  Mentioned as the current location where PJ Fleck coaches and lives.
• Cotton Bowl — Event · Referenced event · 2 mentions · first at 13:58
  Mentioned as the bowl game PJ Fleck coached in with Western Michigan.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 elite teams, players lead, average teams, coaches lead, and bad teams, nobody leads. You've got to find cultural ways to always teach lifetime lessons to young people.

0:09 And in life, there's going to be a lot OF TIMES WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO NEED IT. NOT THAT YOU WANT IT. EVERYBODY WANTS IT. YOU'RE GOING TO NEED IT.

0:15 You're big on honoring mentors. I think it's very, very hard for us to step back and say we didn't get here alone. There were so many times as a head football coach, you have to just give people what they need to hear, not what they want to hear.

0:25 I'm going to talk about rock bottom. perspective uh really comes from tragedy and adversity. February 9th, 2011, my second son died of a heart condition and that changes your life and I think you go one of two directions and that's where row the boat came from and row the boat just means never give up. If it's scary enough, it means it's big enough for you. College football is a wild wild west. It's a football oper.

0:45 Are you serious? It challenges you to be the best version of yourself today, not yesterday. One of the greatest things I ever learned was a coach's job is to teach and demand. A player's job is prepare and perform. You have to find it. YOU HAVE TO DIG DEEP WITH IT. And you found it.

1:02 All right, PJ. I was talking to you about this last night a little bit, but I want to go back to 2003. Uh I'm playing quarterback for the Ohio University Bobcats. We're struggling. We go up north to Northern Illinois and we're playing against the undefeated uh Northern Illinois Huskies, number 17 in the country. Have a great running back named Michael the Burner Turner. We're really focused on stopping this guy and we actually did a pretty good job. I throw a touchdown pass to Anthony Hackett to give us the lead. We're up by seven. We go late in the game. We're going to knock off on national TV this team that's undefeated.

1:39 And this little receiver, not that little, I guess, just has the game of his life and including uh a 15yard touchdown catch on fourth down to tie the game, send it into overtime and to beat us. And that guy, that receiver was PJ Fleck. And I've paid attention to your career ever since that night. I think you had what, 14 or 15 catches, 235 yards, a touchdown. What do you remember from that night?

2:04 Oh my goodness, your memory is unbelievable. And we talked last night. You brought that up and I could not believe you brought it up. The only person that still talks about that game is me. Yes.

2:13 And I usually tell my kids or my players or my wife and they could care less, right? Uh I actually have some gloves up and I don't know if I can do this. This is I don't know if people move around when they uh uh when they're on Zooms, but there are uh these gloves that are in my office and there these are the ones you're talking about right there.

2:33 Are you serious? NIU 30, Ohio U23 OT right there. Yep. So 14 catches, 234 yards. So I remember that game very, very well.

2:43 It was fourth down. I'm thinking we're going to beat this the best team in the MAC nationally ranked us on national TV. This is amazing. And then this dude just killed us. My dad and I have talked about PJ Fleck since that night. And so I'm like, this guy, it's cool to see what's happening in your coaching career. But actually leads me to a question, PJ, and that is how important is it for your players to see that you were a stud yourself as an actual player and not just as a coach?

3:09 Well, I'm not sure I would have recruited my own self. That that's the problem is uh when we went to Northern Illinois, we were on like a 20some game losing streak. Uh but it was amazing who Joe Novak actually recruited that year during all that the the losing piece. He got guys who really wanted to be there and then you know we go in our senior year and that's the year you're talking about which was so memorable and um and I I think it's really important for players to know that. Uh I I I'm I'm a guy who loves to to hire guys uh that have a huge huge u knowledge of the background of their position. So, I love like our right now our running back coach is the all-time leading rusher uh in the history of Minnesota. Our linebacker coach played here at the University of Minnesota uh and was phenomenal. I think it's important for player for you as a coach to share what you did. Uh I do and and some of it's

3:57 used in a joking fashion. I show my highlight tape every year at some point. Uh and it's so old. I mean, it's so gritty. Uh but I think it's important for them to see uh you as a human being to see that you actually did it. what did it look like when you were a player? Um, you know, but these guys highlight tapes are 100 times better than mine. But I do think it's important that you show yourself playing the game or doing something that they can relate to. Uh, because I think that, you know, you're you're demanding so much of these young people that they're always going to be like, well, what do you know about that?

4:33 And and they quickly forget that, you know, I played in college, played in the National Football League, I coached in the National Football League. And immediately when you become a head coach, you're kind of like that older parent or you become a coach now. You're that parent. So, what do you know? And I think it's really important for you to kind of let your hair down a little bit. Uh I don't have any, but go ahead and let that hair down. Give them a peek behind the curtain of what it was like when you were playing. And we do it in a little bit more of a fun way than being like, "Hey guys, you're going to watch my highlight tape. Watch how much of a stud I was." Uh we do it in a way that's a little bit more exciting. We'll show coaches highlights, like guess that coach before a team meeting starts. Um, and then we'll show our former, you know, our coaches as players and show 10 plays of their highlight tape and then

5:18 you got to guess that coach. Uh, we call it guess that gopher. So, we do it with players as well. I think it's just a fun way to start the team meeting. Uh, but yeah, we we show a lot of that. One of the other uh elements about you that I love is um you're big on honoring mentors and one of the the mentors that you have is one that I've been lucky to to get a chance to know really well through through my younger brother and that's Jim Trestle. Uh you wear the tie on the sideline. Nobody really does that to honor him and I know he's had a big impact on your life as well as Mike Nolan who you also honor by wearing that. Can you tell me more about the importance of of those guys as mentors, what you've learned from them and how you try to honor them?

5:56 Great question. Uh yeah, Jim Trestle and Mike Nolan are two of the greatest influences of my life. Uh Jim Trestle hired me. Uh I got cut from the Niners and they the story goes together because you know I was playing in the National Football League. It was my third year I got hurt. Mike Nolan cuts me. The minute he cuts me, offers me a job and I don't know if I'm still the only person in in NFL history to be cut and within the same sentence be offered a coaching job. And I'm like, "What kind of coaching job?" He's like, "I don't know. I I haven't I don't have the job. I'm going to make it up for you cuz I think you're going to be an outstanding coach. And at the time, I have an elementary education degree. I was going to go teach sixth grade social studies. And uh, of course, I thought I was his star player. So, I'm like, how dare you cut me? Like, I'm going to keep playing. I'm 5'9, 185

6:40 pounds. I'm desirable for the National Football League. Okay. So, uh, I went to the Bears next week, failed the physical, came back to him, said, "Hey, look, I think this is going to be really good. Just give me another day to think about it." Well, the day I'm thinking about it, uh, Jim Trussell calls me out of nowhere and offers me an offensive graduate assistant job. There were two GA jobs back then. Now there's a billion. Um, but there was only two, one on offense, one on defense. And he had never met me, but his fraternity brother was one of my coaches in college, Mike Sabbach. And that's why it's amazing that I feel like I'm indebted to so many people because I've got to help pay it forward for a lot of my former players and the people who I think are going to be outstanding coaches and serve them.

7:20 So anyway, Jim Trestle calls me and I thought it was a joke. I thought it was one of my buddies calling me, playing a prank on me that he's acting calling from Columbus, Ohio and saying he's Jim Trestle. Jim High hired me on the spot. Didn't meet me. Never met me. He just wanted somebody get into school and trusted his fraternity brother. So it it was about how I played and how I prepared and all the things that I did as a player for our special teams coordinator to one day get a call and I need to be the first one on the tip of his tongue. And it's just pretty ironic uh that it worked out that way. So I went with Jim Trestle U, went to the national championship my first year in coaching and I'm like this stuff's really easy. I mean kind of show up with Teddy Gin u you know Troy Smith, Brian Hartline, Anthony Gonzalez and you know Marcus Freeman you're like this isn't that hard you know you got to show up

8:04 they win. I mean this is this college thing I got this thing down I think. Um long story short we lose in the national title but those two men I wear a tie because they both wore a tie and I wouldn't be where I am without them. And I think it's very very hard for uh for us to kind of step back and say we didn't get here alone. Sometimes when you when you go up the ladder, you're like, "Here's how I did it. This is what I did. This is what uh how I made of my what I made of myself. I have nothing to do with really me." Um if it wasn't for those two men, I wouldn't be where I'm at or even have the opportunity to be where I'm at. So, uh I love to, you know, I'm a sixth grade social studies teacher at heart and I'd probably be doing that if it wasn't for them. So, every single game day, that's how I honor those two men. Jim Trussell taught me how to care about the entire team.

8:50 Uh, his office was right next to the the locker room and the team meeting room, which mine is designed that way. I do not have the secretary. I do not have an assistant. My players can walk in my office at any moment. Um, and I'm right by the team meeting where you have to pass my office uh to go into the team meeting room. So, I want that that that fluidity of be being players feeling okay to walk in there. And Jim Trestle never stopped me or somebody stopped me from walking into his office uh when I was this bottom of the totem pole GA.

9:19 And I never liked I never wanted that feel in my in in my building. So he taught me how to care for the entire organization. I mean the the entire organization. He knows everybody's name. He still sends me a text every week. Every single week without fail. And I was a GA for him. Imagine if you were an all-American or an offensive coordinator for him. just unbelievable uh how much he has done for my life. And then Mike Nolan um Mike Nolan taugh taught me how to be incredibly transparent uh and very honest. Uh there were so many times as a head football coach you have to just give people what they need to hear, not what they want to hear. And I had to learn that. I had to learn that from someone. And Mike Nolan taught me that because it was he did it with such grace. Uh there's a way to do everything even though you have to deliver really hard information. And I think Mike Nolan is really really good at the art of

10:11 that. So I think those are the two things I learned the most from those guys. Um I'm going to talk about rock bottom 2013. Um you'd had some just uh unimaginable tragedy in your personal life uh leading up to that moment. Um then you get a head coaching job. You're at Western Michigan 2013 and you go 1 and 11 that first year. C can you take me back to that time and what like what was going on in your head? How are you dealing with it? How did you respond to to the combination of this really really tough these these like I said this tragic things in your personal life and then your in your professional life. Yes, you get the you get the head coaching job, but but you guys just get destroyed pretty much every week. Uh what was that like?

11:02 Well, I think perspective uh really comes from tragedy and adversity. And if you don't have any of that, you probably have a real poor perspective of life, um, of sport, of challenges, of changes. Um, there there's been a few things that have shaped my life forever. February 9th, 2011, my second son died of a heart condition. And and I was the last one to hold him before, you know, he passed away. And that changes your life. And I think you go one of two directions. One, you never want to talk about it again. You put it out of your mind. It's it's between you and a higher power, and you never talk about it. And there's nothing wrong with that. Uh there's there's a lot of people who go through really hard things and um don't ever want to talk about it again. I'm not here to judge those people. And then there's the other side where you take it and of course it changes you and shapes you, but then you

11:44 want to use it for really for good and you want to share it. Hard part about sharing is when you bring anything public, it's going to get criticized, scrutinized, it's going to get torn apart. People are going to throw darts at it, arrows, and you got to be comfortable enough to handle all of that if you share anything. So, don't get mad when people blast you for very personal things if you put something personal out there. And that's where row the boat came from. And row the boat just means never give up. Uh but it's really his life. Uh we're the only college football program whose slogan is directly tied to charity. And I think that's really really important for our program of serving and giving. Um you know, our philanthropy side. Uh and then, you know, you become I was I was 32 years old. I was the youngest head football coach in the country and I'm coming straight from the National Football

12:27 League as a wide receiver coach for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and oh man I'm full of piss and vinegar and let's do this and I'm 32 years old. How hard could this head coaching thing be? I just watched all these great head coaches do it and then you go one and 11 and not only go one and 11, I got divorced that year and um so now my personal life's in shambles. You know I lost my son a few years ago. I got this row the boat thing. It didn't work. Uh I'm the worst guy in town. every rumors about me that known to man um my professional life, personal life all fell apart. And so everybody used to ask me, they're sitting there going, "So what are we going to do now? Roll the boat didn't work. So we going to mow the grass? Uh you know, we we we going to turn the wrench like what are we doing?" I said, "No, this is what the boat's all about."

13:09 And I think this is the greatest lesson is because uh the authenticity and the realness of our program uh showed in the hardest moments and was tested so fast. I think every head coach and every coach should go 0 and12 or 11 and 11 to start. I think that should be a prerequisite because I think that at that point like you really identify what is very real and what isn't, what you need and what you don't need. It's like throwing away all the car parts that you don't really need and what what are we and who are we and it really makes you feel uh you know that are you do you truly believe in what you believe in? And I I think that tests everybody. Um, and so then we get to the second year and we turn it around and all of a sudden went from 1 and 11 to almost being fired, starting 1 and4 the next year and then we're coach of the year and then boom, you know, and then we go 13 and0 two years later and

13:58 take them to the Cotton Bowl, same group of kids. And I think it's just um uh it's just ironic that, you know, 14 years later, here we are still doing the same row the boat culture and had so many ups and downs and highs and lows and the line of success is never straight. And uh I think that's what people's expectations are. Uh that you're going to start here and you're going to end here and anything that gets you off that line is is is awful. Uh and when in fact it's there to teach you all the things you need and the armor you need as you continue to move forward. So um don't be afraid of all those things that are going on uh in your life that aren't going necessarily well. If everything that wasn't good in my life didn't happen exactly the way it happened, the uh the exact moment it happened, I wouldn't be where I am. But that's perspective when you go back and look at all those things and I think

14:44 that really helps you moving forward. You were the the the the hot name in coaching after the turnaround of what you you did at Western Michigan. Um what made you choose Minnesota? I have to imagine there were other options. What what's made you not only pick Minnesota but then stay at Minnesota?

15:04 Yeah, I this has to go this is a question really for my wife Heather because she's responsible for both of them. Um, we have a question in our family when before we kind of do something and take on a new challenge. Uh, she always asked me, "Does it scare you?" And, uh, the other jobs didn't really scare me. And she said when Minnesota came about, we were getting ready to sign a new contract at Western Michigan because first and foremost, I was coaching in the Cotton Bowl. Like, anybody asked me, "Are you willing to come out here?" No, I'm not willing to come out there. I'm coaching in the Cotton Bowl. You can get me after the Cotton Bowl, but I'm coaching in the Cotton Bowl. I have no idea when I'm going to get back to the cotton bowl. I'm going to enjoy the moment memory. Cuz that's what life's about. Life experiences, moments, and memories. And when you think you're better than the moment, memory, and life

15:47 experience, and you pass that up, that's when regret happens. The pain of discipline to stay in that moment versus the pain of regret. So, long story short, Heather asked me, "Does it scare me?" I'm like, "Hell yeah, it scares me." Actually freaks me out. She goes, "We're going." Because that's what drives you. If it if it's scary enough, right, that it means it's big enough for you. And uh the challenge is going to fulfill uh that drive that you have. And because I'm constantly driven, I I have the disease of whatever people call success, but I have the disease of it.

16:21 Whatever was yesterday is not good enough today. And if you're not taking a moment to stop and celebrate those great moments or stop and reflect on the really hard moments of what they mean, life's just going to be like mashed potatoes to you. And then you're going to look back when you're 55 and and regret so many things that you didn't um stop and either smell the roses or or stop and and and pick up and recycle the crap uh and get it better. So, uh that was what she asked me. And then we stay in Minnesota because we have a great life here. There's a difference in coaching between I think having a great life and making a great living. Uh there's a massive difference between those two and a lot of them have to do with moments, memories, life experiences. as I said, and then being able to do it your way.

17:06 My boss is the same boss that hired me 10 years ago. That's not We're the longest standing Big 10 AD head coach combination in the Big 10. Uh we're top five in the country when it comes to that relationship. And I know how good I have it, but some people have know how good they have it, but they want it better. That's okay. But that doesn't mean it's always better. And uh doesn't mean I'll stay here forever. I don't know that. But I know what I have and it's going to have to take something incredibly special special to take me out of the life that we've created here.

17:40 Football is a piece of our life from our players to our relationships to our to our social life to our friends to uh to the community. Like we've been a part of the community for a long time and I I I take value in that. So, the life versus the living, I think the living is just the salary and money and what you have and uh what your contract says, but the life, I think there's so much to do here. U and it's such an amazing place uh that we love living here and love creating what we've we we've built and and uh want to continue to see where we can take it.

18:11 The the Big 10 has become the place that wins the national championships, right? The past three years, they've done it. It looks like that's going to continue. H how how is it for you guys at Minnesota because it seems like you just need a ton of money. You need a lot of donors, NIL support. That's a that's a tough place to compete when it seems like the the national champ is going to come from the Big 10 every year. I'm a fan of the Big 10. Uh how how is that for you at Minnesota when you see Indiana, Michigan, Ohio State, I mean USC, all these teams now? Yeah, I I think that one thing is I think from an expectation standpoint, I think your expectations should always match your resources. Uh but I think this expectation and reality are where people really get confused. Uh is there there's a there's a saying we have in our program, expectation and reality is here, right? And then uh that gap in

19:03 between if those don't align and they're not really close, the gap gets bigger and it's always filled with frustration. And those are the fan bases, right? they have an expectation but the reality of the resources are here and and so the frustration's massive. I think when those thing get closer, I think there's less frustration and more the of the ability that we can all get that thing done and whatever that is. Players, uh, resources, money, billionaires. I mean, that's what this thing is coming down to a little bit. Feels like more major league baseball. People talk about it's like NFL. It's not like the NFL. The NFL is a very, very, very uh, meticulous, clean, uh, detailed run business in the world. It's one of the most iconic logos and businesses in the world that it's very cut and dry. Here's what we do.

19:45 Here's how we do it. Period. There's rules. There's regulations. You do this, here's the consequence. College football is a wild wild west. And it's it's a drama. It's a it's a soap opera. That's really what it is. And you got to tune in next week and look at the Dr. Pepper commercials. It it's all drama. It it's whether it's the hot seat, that's what sells in college football. The ratings of the CFP are through the roof again. So people wanting all this regulation and all these rules and what are we going to do with college football? The people that are making the money are going like, "What's wrong with it?" I mean, it is just the wild west. And what's wrong with that? I do think there's a lot wrong with it when it comes down to that. But I think that because it's coming from the Big 10 three years in a row, you see a team like Indiana, if the investment's there, if the backing's there, the resources

20:29 there, anybody can go do it. And I think that's why I stay at Minnesota cuz I truly truly believe that we can go do that. We have the right people. Uh we just need to be able to do it more regularly and we need to be able to do it more consistently and we need more people to see the vision of that. But it gives you hope saying, "Okay, this isn't just some far-fetched dream." It's it's hard to obtain. It's really hard to obtain. There's two people left in the NFL right now going to fight for the Super Bowl, and then there's, you know, there's one college football national champion. So, it's it's it's very limited, but you can if you do it the right way. And, uh, I think that we're on our way to hopefully continue to pour into that and getting that done.

21:08 When we talked last night, you said you guys are an 8020 team. 80% of your recruiting is high school kids, 20% are transfer portal guys, which is probably different for Indiana and some other teams that that are that are winning. So, can you can you I'd love to hear kind of your overall philosophy on that 8020 high school to transfer portal and why you've chosen to do it that way.

21:29 Well, a few things. One, I was hired 10 years ago here and and you're you're in this rhythm, right, where I can be in that rhythm. Um, where I I I don't lose many starters. I mean, we have one of the highest retention rates in the country, even at Minnesota, and we don't pay our players the most. Uh, but we're doing that in the selection and and fit um part of the program, which means we don't recruit, we find selection and fit. Um, I shouldn't have to convince a kid to come here. And and when you're doing that, it's based on value system.

21:57 What do you truly value? And I'm not saying asking a 17-year-old, "What do you value?" And then having the kid lie through his teeth and tell you, "Uh, money is not important." It's all about the money or it's not about the money until it's about the money. Don't ever forget that like it's it's it kid say it's not about the money and then it comes down to the money at some point but our kids value certain things in front of the money and I think that's really important when you're talking about the retention. Uh we've been able to have our freshman become sophomores, sophomores become juniors, juniors become seniors. One because we stay here. Uh and I think that's really important but two because I think our players really enjoy the experience they get as a college collegiate athlete because I don't know how much that still exists. Um, and I think that's really important. I tell parents right here in

22:40 my office and I'm kind of like a dinosaur, but I'm a cool dinosaur. I'm like a T-Rex. So, but we are kind of dinosaurs because nobody's really doing it the way that we're doing it. We've adapted to what we've done. We've become a little transactional within this transformational program, but it's a piece of it. Uh, it's not the whole thing where a lot of people are just throwing their hands up and saying, you know, I'm just being completely transactional. Uh, and that's all we're going to do. the head coach is separating from the players, the GM separating from the players. Players, do your job. You're getting paid or you're going to get cut and fired. Um, we're still that developmental program uh academically athletically socially spiritually mentally physically and emotionally. And I take a lot of pride in that. But that's my upbringing. I'm a sixth grade social studies teacher at heart. My mom taught special education.

23:26 I've seen education at the simplest form. I've seen fun at the simplest form. uh when you're dealing in special ed and you're seeing these young people um who are really going through really I mean they have debilitating um things that it's just so hard but they they celebrate the simplest things and you learn everything at the simplest form and I watched my mom do that for years and I think that was so beneficial to me to create one of the most creative programs in the country and I think everything we do is really creative. I think our players look forward to coming in the building every single day and seeing what we have in store for them.

24:03 And I don't lose sight of that. I never will. Even though it it can be again expectation reality, it can be frustrating at times. Um because it's there there's so many more distractions from a player's perspective. They have agents, they have parents, they have people taking 15 to 20% of what they're making. They're having people tell them what to do, which you feel as a coach could be a bad decision. So, it's just you got all these things that you didn't have before, but that's why we say we're adapting, but we're not changing who we are. Uh, but we we can adapt. Uh, but I think for us having that 8020 model, it's because we've been here for so long. If I took another job, it'd be really hard when you have 80 players leave the program when you got a new head coach. Well, now you're in this transfer cycle and you got to win right away. It's hard to get that grip and that traction to get back to the

24:48 freshman through seniors. Uh, because you got to win really quickly in this profession. So, I think it benefits us to have that model because we've been here so long.

24:57 You said we don't recruit. It's about selection and fit. Did I hear that right?

25:01 Absolutely. You did. What is So, what what is uh what does that mean? I'm not for everybody. I think we think just cuz a guy can jump high, run fast, shoot the ball, uh you know, uh throw the ball, uh dunk a basketball, uh you know, shoot a hockey puck, kick a soccer ball, that hey, they're going to be a great player. There's so much more to fit. and selection than just recruiting. Uh I never want to convince a kid to come here. I tell people my my my opening line is I am a I am really really difficult to play for. I'm just making this very clear to start with. Uh I'm a high high thinker overachiever.

25:38 I'm a 5'9 180lb guy who lasted two and a half years in the NFL. I was one of the youngest position coaches in the NFL and I didn't have a dad who coached. Um I've been a head coach now 14 years and I'm 45 years old. I've I've everything that I've done, I've had to do it the hard way, the bluecollar way. I've had to make it happen. I've had to put myself around people who are willing to help me um and had take some risk. So, absolutely, I'm not for everybody. I I consider our program incredibly difficult. Um because it challenges you to be the best version of yourself tomorrow or today, not yesterday. Um this is this is not a rear view program.

26:19 this is we're we're rowing the boat, man. You can't see where you're going. Uh you have a vision, you set a goal, and boom, we move on. And then you just get everybody aligned, rowing the boat in the same direction in the present. And you look at the past, there's the only thing you can't change, but you can learn from. And we need people who think that way. I can find 25 to 30 high schoolers from west coast to east coast, north to south. I don't care where you're from, right? That that fit that model of that overachieving love ball, love their life mindset because you got to love your whole life here. There are expectations academically that are insane that I have for our players and we get recruited against recruited of, hey, you can sit anywhere you want in the classroom. Don't listen to coach Fleck. He's taken away your constitutional right to sit anywhere that you want in your classroom and blah

27:03 blah blah blah blah. Well, yeah. So, everything, we don't recruit. Meaning, we're not selling you on something that when you get there, it's not there. We are telling you everything of what it's like to be here. From the academics to the social life to the spiritual life to the football life to what we do mentally, physically, and emotionally. And we make sure everybody's here to watch it and see it first and experience it. And I'm just telling you, it's identical to that when they get here because it's not about u the kids that you don't get. It's about the wrong kid you get

27:35 that ruins your program. So, I'm not going to chase a kid who I know doesn't fit, but boy is he a really good player. I can find really good people who are going to make themselves really good players. And we always start with a really good person. Now, if if you're a tennis player, I really don't care. Like, I'm I'm coach I'm I'm I'm recruiting you because you're a great football player. So, we've already gone past are you good enough or not? Now it comes down to the selection of okay out of these 500 kids who are the best best young men out of these 25 these 500.

28:06 Give me the best people uh the best 25 of those people. Um because I want the elite of the elite. I don't I don't get the five stars. I don't get a bunch of four stars here. So I've got to be able to go get those two three stars who want to be that five star uh in their mind and know that they already are. They just don't need judgment from the outside to get there. I believe there's a difference between a chip and a crack on the shoulder. A chip that's proving to everybody else that you're good enough. You hear it all the time. Oh, we're we're going to prove it to who?

28:35 The media is always going to find something that you're not good enough at. Once you accomplish something that the media said you're not doing, all they do is find the next thing you haven't done. LeBron James is still proving that he's a really good basketball player. To who? The comparisons of Michael Jordan. Compare. That's why comparisons steal your joy. The crack on your shoulder type kids that we select are the kids that are proving to themselves they're exactly who they say they are.

29:01 That's all I want. And that's when we're talking about fit selection and it's a process. I want nectons, man. Always attacking, never full. Um I want hungry dogs. I want people who love and attack their life. Now that doesn't mean last thing is you don't have to have my personality. That that has nothing to do with it. It's your internal drive to be your best, not the best. The the best is subjective and it'll always be subjective, but you've got to be your best. And that's my job as a coach, right? And if I've got to start your motor every day, you're wrong. Wrong fit. People think I'm a motivational head coach. You couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm a cultural driver. I already have motivated kids because I selected motivated kids. And if I have unmotivated kids, I picked wrong. I've chosen really poorly. And that's very difficult to do. Now, in the high school levels, people don't get to pick their

29:59 players. Oh, well, if you're at, you know, private schools, you probably get to recruit. But if like for for us, we get to pick. But I make sure that who we're picking, I'm picking their how, man. I'm picking their journey, their story, how they got to where they are. I'm buying that. I'm buying people's journey because that's what I'm banking on that I'm going to get as well. So, I know I threw a lot at you on that question but

30:21 just saying, man, if I was a high school parent or kid, I'm signing up to go play for PJ Fleck. I mean, hearing just hearing you do your thing, I I love it. I absolutely

30:31 Right. Right. Just as much as what you just said that, like you would do that. What's great about it, too, is there are people who run like hell from me.

30:38 Really? Oh my. The minute they hear that, no way. Because I don't run from that, though. because lazy and complacent and fraud like don't work with me. And and if you know that deep down like some of you feel like that deep down passion right now you're like yeah there's a lot of people who feel that and go no like this is going to expose me and they go but

31:02 some of these four and fivear kids you see are lazy. Oh I can see a lot of laziness in young people. Our gener this young generation. You better peel back the onion a ton on this generation cuz everybody's the Instagram filter. Everybody, and I'm talking from a player to a picture to a video, it's all filtered.

31:23 So, you got to assume everything that you see is filtered. And then how can I peel back this filter to get to the real the DNA of what's going on? And that's my job as a head coach. And I'm not saying I'm perfect at it. I'm not saying there hasn't been complacent, lazy people walk through this building and then you find out later on. I'm also not saying I haven't taken a chance on a kid, but you have to keep evolving, I think, your strategy uh in hiring coaches, hiring people. I have more former players on my staff than I've ever had. I mean, my staff is really young. My staff is very energetic, but they're also they they've mastered our culture. They know it inside out. And I love that former player back inside where they where they cut their teeth.

32:07 Like I love that type of feel inside a building because I think that brings validity. Uh it brings this new era news uh this freshness to this this new era of transactional football um that we can still stay transformational.

32:21 Do you have a set of pillars or core values to go along with your mantra of of of row the boat?

32:28 Yeah, because row the boat is really uh it's what we do. Okay. And I'm going to I'm going to dissect this a little bit so you got to stay with me. Uh, we have what we call the hyper culture. So, row the boat fits in the hyper culture. We name our culture. Um, go figure it's called hyper. Uh, but when I was 1 and 11, I created this. I have all this great stuff, but god I'm so horrible at putting this all together where somebody can like digest this thing. So, I created the hyperculture in year 2 at Western Michigan. And it's saying it's an acronym HYP RR. So, HYP R. And I'm going to go through it very quickly. The H is how.

33:08 The Y is yours. The P is process. The first R is result. Second R is response. I told John Gordon this is our next book. So I'm I'm I'm ready to go. Uh but it's called the hyperculture for this reason. If you take HYP, which you don't know what that is yet, but let's just go back to when we were all kids. My dad used to say, "Don't believe the hype." I grew up in the Don King era. My dad loved boxing. It was like he was the ultimate hype man. Okay, the everything hype is before the first result, right? That's what that whole the hyper culture is, right?

33:46 The hype and then you get the first R and that's the result. And then the second R is response. So you have to respond to that result. So let's peel back the onion a little bit on the hyper. The H is how. This is the people of the organization. Every business starts with people. But I want a certain type of person. I want people who when I put your film on, I can see how you play. Everybody plays football. Everybody plays a wide out. Everybody plays quarter. I want to see spitting off the film how you play. Relentless. Nectton. Ne. Navy Seals call themselves nectons. They always attack.

34:21 They're never full. Right. How you do one thing is how you do everything. You don't change in whether it's academics or social life. You're a turd off the field but you're a good football player. I want people who have that consistency, right? That how is everything to me, right? Always attacking, never full. So, I'm looking for the overachievers in that. So, that's the people I'm looking for, whether it's coaches or players. You take the right people and then you plug them into the yours. Okay? Yours is the vision, but it's like we said before, it's got to be your vision.

34:53 So, I always tell people I'm uh we're building a house together. We have a huge house in our team meeting room and it's a real home. If you'd like to see it, I'll show it to you in a minute. But every year we add on to the home. But when you're building a home, you have an architect who designs the home and then you have a builder who builds the home. So, your vision to build this home you want has to be your vision. So, it's your life. It can't be your dad's vision for you or your grandfather vision for you or your or just the coach's vision for you. I'm the I'm the architect as a head coach. I I I create a blueprint based on what you tell me. What do you want the house to look like and I'll create that. Right? We just built a home and good lord. Uh what I thought started to be this turned out, you know, you know, when you give your wife the full rain. I mean, it is unbelievable how that ar that that plan changed

35:47 constantly. But it was a blueprint and then we hired a builder to build it. The players are the builders. Don't tell me you want this extravagant home and then you're a horrible carpenter. Like don't tell me that cuz a blueprint calls for an elite builder and you better be an elite AR or elite architect with an elite builder. So that's what that go that's that your vision and I always use the example of u I always tell people, you know, think about vision in your life and really set it out there. Like we talk about create a vision and put it on a shelf and don't talk about it. But it's got to be your vision because if you keep sharing your vision with other people, people think you're going to be crazy, right? That's why I I keep whatever I'm going to do, I tell the people most important to me, I put it on the shelf and that's it. But when I was a kid, I was taught stranger danger. Let me give you an example of this. I was

36:34 also taught don't go into a car with anybody you don't know. Right? Everybody remember that? Uh, so but when you look at it, somebody took a business model when I was grow growing up in the 80s and said, "Ah, what a great business model. I'm going to create a multi-billion dollar industry." Anybody know what that is? Good. Yes. Uber. So, we get in a car with a stranger every time that we need a ride. We don't know this person's background. We don't know this person's uh driving record. We really don't. We trust Uber to put that person in front of us. And not only do we call somebody or have an Uber, we we're hammered. We're drunk.

37:08 like we're calling somebody when we're hammered to drive us from one place to the other, drop us off at our home, and as we're sitting there telling somebody our our garage code because we just feel like that's uh that's the right thing to do cuz we had too many toddies. So like that somebody took that what we were told as a horrible horrible thing to do. Took it and made a business model out of it. The second thing is I was I always had to like u tell my uh tell my parents like where I was going to spend the night and then their parent had to call my parent to make sure they were going to be home and like it was to to just sleep in my my buddy's house next door.

37:43 You know, is his parent going to be home? Long story short, again, a lot of rules. Now we have Airbnb, right? Nobody knows who's under the bed, who's in the closet, why is the closet locked? You know what I mean? There's all these things. When I go into a home, I'm like, there's a lot of questions to be answered here, but we just trust it. Like, there's not somebody under the bed with a knife and you bring your family in these things. Look, I use bull things. So, I'm not saying they're bad. But what I am saying is the stranger danger and and was turned into a model.

38:10 And that's why the vision's so important, right? Talk about Amazon, same way. So, the right people plugged into the crazy ass visions, like big ass visions. I want people who want real crap in their life, like big stuff, like big stuff. And then you got to put them to work. And that's how we define process as work. And that's the who, what, where, when, why, and how of anything. So every player can ask me who we doing it for, what are we doing, where are we doing it, why are we doing it, when are we doing it, and how are we doing it? Think about that. When you give somebody instruction, can they ask you those six questions? And can you answer them? That's why I don't ever players can walk in here anytime, coach, why are we doing this? It's exactly right. Here's why. But you have to define those six things of your process.

38:54 I'll give you an example. Our how we're nectton always attacking, never full. What do we do? We row the boat, right? That's what we do. Where are we headed? Success. We define success as peace of mind, right? When are we going to do it? Now. Like the only thing that matters right now is now. Then doesn't matter. And and then doesn't matter. Both ends don't matter, right? So that that's when we're going to do it. Why are we going to do it? Because we're here to teach you responsibility, trust, and belief. So when you start to get through all those all those six that that's really really important. So the who, what, where, when, why, and the how. And and uh what uh the who part sorry I started with how. The who part is family. Forget about me. I love you. So we're going to respect each other as a family member and love is sacrifice. So those are the six things that like we promote during the process. Okay. So the a the people,

39:47 the vision and the process go together to create a result. If you don't like the result, it's just data. Then your how, your vision, and your process are screwed up. Focus on the hype. Focus on going back and fixing that piece. The it's not the results fault. It's not the referee's fault. It's not anything like that, right? And then you got to respond. And we teach our players how to respond. We have body language classes for our players. Um our play our practices are some of the most unique practices in the country. Uh our players are taught to respond in every area of their life. Um academically, athletically, socially, spiritually. And we teach them what elite response is. Um 75% of our communication as human beings is non-verbal. So you better have a lot of body language uh understanding. And I think that's one thing that we do really, really well here. So that's the hyperculture. I can speak two hours on

40:36 that. It just kind of gives you a little peel back of the onion how row the boat fits into the process of what we do every day uh of alignment getting everybody aligned in the organization.

40:45 What is a tough body language look like? Like what are the specific things you are teaching your guys on how to respond whether it's on the football field in life? What are some of those body language tips?

40:57 Well, the big thing is at practice we have the thing called big chest, right? So just it's standing up straight. Um I'm going to move this a little bit over here. Our son's over there. So here we go. All right. So, most players uh I think that everybody needs to to know their responsibility within the organization. So, like our trainers need to know when to jump in, when not to jump in. Like our athletic trainers, how can I help our athletic trainers do their job better? Well, if you can see an issue, you might be able to get it faster, right? Because I never want anybody in my organization say, "Never saw it coming." I never want that. And I say you can't prevent everything. But I'm going to give you an example. So, our players are not able to be like this, right? Or like this, right? Or slumped over. Our players stand up and we say big chest. And they've got to be able to pick that chest out, suck all that air in because

41:47 if you can't hold yourself up, right? Our trainers need to run over to you. Like our trainers need to be able to say, "Okay, this is something wrong. I'm just going to go check on this kid." There's all types of things that people have in this underlying types medical world, right? and we do so many tests but can't prevent everything. So, how can I make that better? How can I make sure that they're trained for every environment not to be defeated when they get bad news? Uh, I think that's critical. And I'm not saying taking away the emotion from people. I'm just doing everything I train them not to be emotional.

42:20 Uh, every type of information that we get in, people love to overreact. There's a difference between reaction and response. So, so response and emotion go together. In my opinion, I I think you can help take that emotion and train a response. Uh, culturally um, uh, that can help somebody's life. I think the real world wants to see you emotional and react where it's an outside train behavior where we just watch and say, "Okay, when we lose, I'm supposed to I'm supposed to not shake hands with the guy at midfield. I'm I'm going to walk off the field. I'm going to get in there. We lose. I'm going to blame the refs.

42:58 um we don't want anybody in our organization blaming, complaining, and deflecting. Those are the BCDs that are not allowed. And and I think when you have the BCDs, uh you have a divided culture. I think you have a very emotional team. Uh I think you have a very reactionary team. Um you have a very like frontr running team. Uh and I don't want any of that. So, I want to train a response in every area of your life that you're more built like a, you know, a Navy Seal or a Green Beret or if there's something that somebody needs, they're calling upon you because it's above and beyond. And and I think that's where the elite of the elite, this word elite comes from, this nectton mentality of how we do it, we want it done at an elite level. If you're not going to do it at an elite level, then we it's not going to work here. Um, and again, that doesn't equal perfection. I I think though that words have power. Uh we have

43:48 close to 150 words that our players know definitions to and this isn't a cult, but it's a baseline definition of what words mean. Um success is peace of mind. Okay, that's a baseline definition that can help you in the rest of your life. Uh we are not saying like, hey, success is money only, you know, that's it and that's what we're training. We're not. We're doing everything we can to take what people are just hearing on the outside uh and doing everything we can to turn up the volume and let them listen inside um and doing everything we can to give substance to to to all these filters. And I think that's part of our job as educators uh is to bring substance to the filter. Um, I have two daughters as well as two sons and I'm telling you it's uh I mean as much Sephora as they could possibly get and they're only 11 and 13 and they got great skin and I'm sitting there going, "Why are we in the skin store?" I mean,

44:42 they have they have what people are actually paying for. Like what are we doing? It's it's all filter and uh we're doing everything we can to kind of peel back that onion here.

44:50 One of the things you just mentioned was how you practice. I'd like to have Garen Stokes talk for a second because I know him and Brooke Cups went and watched you for a day and got to talk to you guys and see you practice and um I know from what they told me it was different. Garren, can you can you talk with Coach Fleck here about what you saw that day and I'd love to hear more about his philosophy on it.

45:11 Coach spent two days up in Kazoo. Uh we've went and watched a ton of people, high level people uh run practices. Never seen a better one in 2016. the energy uh the lack of wasted time. Every human had a role uh and like thrived in that role. It was efficient, super competitive. The kids were like super locked in and talking to each other. The feedback was constant. Uh it was the most intentional practice we've ever seen. Uh how'd you get that?

45:41 I think it goes back to the to being a player. Uh I I was the era of three and a half hour practices. They were boring, man. I got ADD, man. I need to move. Like I I I cannot do things for a long time. I I need to change it up. I need to I need I think every team you have to adjust to. I don't think just because you've done it in the past you can do it with this particular team. I think every team has their own DNA. Every team has their own blueprint and fingerprint. But how you practice should be really consistent. And for us, I wanted to cut all the fat off practice. I watched coaches waste time because they were the coach and I was the player and it was their stage to be the coach. And I was like, "This is awful." And I got bored so much at practice. And I'm like, "If I ever ran a practice, man, it I mean, it is going to be the most efficient, intentional practice in the world." And I got to work for Greg Shano and and

46:32 Greg runs a really good practice, too. But I even I was like, I can still cut more fat off of that. I want to make sure practice is harder than a game. And I want to and truly mean that like I people always practice is way harder. Is it or are you just saying that? Because the game's hard. Like let's face it, the game is hard. But there's a lot of breaks in the game. There's TV timeouts. There's a two-minute warning. Uh there there's your offense, defense, special teams. I mean, you got a streaker running on the field. You got to take time. And you know, you got all this stuff going on these days, right? So, but I wanted to create a practice where you were you were trained for everything. And and the word necton is is an organism that can fro flow freely through the water current without the water current dictating its behavior. So Navy Seals call themselves nectton because they can fight in the air, land,

47:17 and water. It doesn't matter where they go, they can kill you. Okay? So they're going to be the most dominant in anywhere, any environment you put them in. And we don't want the circumstance to ever dictate our behavior, right? It's like the coffee bean. So we don't want to just go somewhere or walk into something and let that conform. We want it to conform to us. And so the practice, that's how we've designed it. Uh we have a 30 sec 32 second clock uh that runs constantly. So every play that we do has to be run within 32 seconds. I don't care if we're on the one side of the field, we're going all the way to the other side of the field. That 32 second clock's already started. People got to get in a huddle. They got to get the play call. Coaches got to get the play call. They got to get administered.

47:54 We got to get moving to the line of scrimmage. You are always under the two-minute warning in our practice. And we're constantly creating emotional, mental strain, right? uh constant and creating some type of physical strain because I want them to to be okay with the 14-play drive. I want them to be okay in the fourth quarter. I want them to be able to to to thrive in the two-minute drill. I want them to be able to handle all of it. Last year, we had a really really young team, so we even had to do it to an extreme level. I usually don't practice longer than 95 minutes.

48:24 And I think when people hear that, they're like, "Wow, this is fantastic." And I love when recruits come to watch us practice because they're like, "I love how you practice." I said, "Did you?" I said, ' Because what you're going to have to do, you're going have to do it. It's one thing to watch it and think, "This is really exciting." And then the first day in our warm-up, our dynamic stretch warm-up, we've got one kid puking or two kids, they can't even make it through the stretch because it isn't just a stretch. It is a dynamic warm-up. But everything we do, I want to be at an elite level. uh even the execution of it and then the game and and what you're doing eventually slows down because the biggest jump is the last thing I'll say of why we practice the way we practice. The biggest jump in sport in my opinion is high school to college period. Like it isn't even close. You got 17 year olds playing

49:14 against 24 year olds. That is a grown ass man. That is a grown woman. That is that are grown people. Then you got kids at 17 and they're competing against each other. when you go to the NFL or the NBA, I mean, you're really good and all you're doing is playing against really other grown women or women or grown men and you're all grown. So, it doesn't really matter if you're a rookie or if you're an older guy. It's only experience. But when you get to college from high school, it's experience, right? It's development, it's strength, it's it's it's the it's the confidence, it's all of that. And we got to do everything we can to get the younger guys ready to go as quickly as possible by putting them under that strain. Uh and same with our coaches. I never want any environment to be too big for them, any call to be too big for them. And the way you can do that is train it. But you got to train

50:05 it constantly. Anybody out there's listening, as long as you're not a Badger or a Hawkeye, you are more than welcome to come by anytime and watch our spring practices, watch the way we practice. Um it is it I will say it is unique. Uh but it is designed to be unique. Um and it's truly meant to be fully educational at the same time because our coaches have to coach. They don't get to manage and observe. They are coaching constantly. One of the other things that you and I have talked about is that you are a learner. You're constantly looking to coaches from all sports, from people outside of sports. You're constantly trying to learn, to grow, to improve. I think you went to was it Texas A&M and learned with the Green Berets what happened? What happened down there?

50:49 Yeah, there was a leadership group that kind of invited a bunch of head coach football coaches and um some Green Berets, some Navy Seals uh and brought them into Texas A&M for for two day two to three day seminar and I thought it was exceptional. Those are the type of things I love to do. Um even if it's for a day. Uh I I don't have a lot of time to do a lot of them, but I I'll go to one or two a year or meet with somebody outside my football world. Um Becky Burley is a really good friend. Uh she used to be the national championship women's soccer coach at Florida. Buzz Williams uh is now the basketball coach of Maryland is a very good friend of mine. Um I there's a lot of people I like those people who know me I like to I like to talk with. But this one in particular uh event was unbelievable and it was about leadership and and development and and mindset. And I still remember Heather and I were sitting at

51:38 at dinner and you got to sit with so you had a coach and then you had an Army Ranger or a Green Beret or a Navy Seal at your table and I'm sitting with this guy uh and he looks like Shan Conry. So just imagine Shan Conry, right? And he's sitting there across from Heather and I and the guy's just kind of he's kind of quiet. He was he was pretty energetic at lunch. So we were like, you know, this guy's really cool. So we kind of h of hung out with him cuz I love Sean Connory. And at dinner it was a little quiet. We was just kind of looking around and I was like, "Hey, you okay?"

52:07 He's like, "Oh yeah, yeah, I'm doing fine." And uh still kind of scanning the room like, "Heather, something's going on." And I was like, Heather's like, "No, no, you okay?" He's like, "Yeah." He goes, "No, I'm fine here. I'll just I'll just tell you what I'm doing." He goes, "Um, I'm I'm I'm just kind of looking around the room uh just to kind of, you know, take everybody in and and see the good in all these people." You know, rarely do you ever get to be in a room like this with so many people that are of elite status and have that elite mindset. And then see, the other thing I'm doing is I'm getting a beat on everybody because I've got to have a plan to kill every single one of you.

52:37 And I was like, and he's dead. His face is is as serious as mine was. And I was like I I didn't know whether to laugh to say. He's like, "Yeah, I'm going to go to the restroom." I was like, "All right." He just kind of got up and went to the restroom. But I looked at Heather and go, "How's he going to kill us?" like do we ask him like how do you now you you looked us up and down how how you going to get us you know long story short he never came back to the table and one of the guys came over and we're like hey what happened to won't give you his name but what happened to you know Joe and he goes oh he just got called for active duty he's he's on his way to Afghanistan or wherever he was going and mission this guy's like 50 years old and I was like what a badass and uh I think it gives you kind of the perspective of not only in the football world but that dude just got called to game day and he

53:21 better be ready and He was just hanging out, sitting with us, just chilling. But that mind that it never stops. And when you're when you're a coach, and I think if you're an elite coach, one thing that makes us, it's our downfall. We never stop thinking about how we can improve our program or our student athletes, but it's also what makes you really special. And I think same thing when you're dealing with the elite military. They're never stopping thinking about how if if if if crap goes down, how they're how they're going to kick in and save everybody. It's the same thing. And the elite of the elite think that way. My wife loves it and hates it at the same time because I could never relax. I mean, I if I showed you my notes right now on my phone, it was just from last night. We're watching Land Man, the last episode, and I'm taking note after note after note of how I'm going to build this team meeting from Land Man. I mean,

54:08 whether I do it or not, I just took the notes. I've watched I don't know how many text messages I sent to my coaches watching the AFC and NFC championship games. I don't watch anything for entertainment. I constantly watch it for education. And that's how I think I can I can relate to my players is whatever's going on. I see I'm not on social media. Uh I don't run my social media. Uh I don't have Instagram. I don't have Tik Tok. I don't have my Twitter. I can I can dabble here and there with my GM, but I released all that when I wanted a little self-piece.

54:38 Um because I was tired of every filter. Um you know, you have friends out there putting out the relationship that's so good and you know, it's horrible. Uh, and then they just sent a tweet tweet out yesterday or whatever and these people are married and now they're divorced. Like, come on, just give me real, you know? And I think that that's where you've got to find cultural ways to always teach lifetime lessons to young people. That's our job as educators. And um, I think we do that probably better than everybody, including like reading children's books the night before a game. I mean, nobody reads to their team a children's book the night before a game, but the theme of the week, I find a children's book that has to do with it. and you can take education to the simplest form and you will it's unbelievable how many kids think that's the favorite part when they come back like coach I coach I thought

55:22 it was so corny and so stupid and so childish when you started doing that but I get it now

55:28 and um for 14 years I've done that and so those are the things I you can find teaching and education in everything you're doing but that disease of success if you're not careful will leak into everything and nothing will ever be good enough so how I've trumped that is I celebrate way more than I've ever celebrated. Um I I I have a great bourbon collection. I have a great champagne selection and but I never did that in the past. Um and then also I never took time for the empathy to stop, pause, and and let the pain work its way too.

56:01 So I I do that more than I ever have. Um I love this. Uh Coach Cole, the Hall of Famer, she's the reason this whole thing is happening. I'd love for Sher to have uh uh the final question before we take off. coach.

56:14 Well, nice pressure, Ryan. Thank you. And Hersan Conry, I shall be ready right here. Um, you spoke a little bit about being a transformational coach in a transactional system now. And and you spoke about how you've adapted and I would just like one or two or three of those specific ways in which you have adapted to try to still be that transformational coach in this transactional system. Sure, that's a great question and and thanks for our relationship and I wouldn't be on here without you. So, I'll do anything for you and you asked me to be on it and absolutely I'll do anything for you. So, um you know, I I think the transformational piece uh it has to be authentic and it has to be real. Um I I think the when you look at like how I run our program, uh I'm still willing to do a lot of things that I think I'm not sure a lot of people uh are willing to do. I think you got to you got to really

57:06 kind of peel back the onion a little bit on like what's corny, what's not. Uh but really what actually works within our system and what doesn't. Um but the transformational piece like we still do, okay, I'll give you an example like we do gopher for life program. Okay, so every month we're doing a class internally. Okay, and we do a relationship course where it's called date night. Our players bring a date. We take them to a great restaurant. Um, we might bring them into the stadium and have this like wedding. It's like a It's a literally like a wedding venue.

57:38 There's a dance floor. There's a band. There's a DJ. We have a dinner etiquette course that night. We get to know their girlfriends or their partners. Uh, and our wives come and you're teaching people how to be human beings, how to date in a in a filtered world. Um, that's transformational in my opinion. We have a racism class uh that we take every month. I think you saw in and Minneapolis. I think it's an unbelievable place. I think it gets a really bad reputation based on media of what's going on. Uh but I think it one thing I love about our city is that when things don't go right, they're they're willing to put it out there and they're taking a lot of societal issues and saying, "Okay, here uh the buck stops here." Um and so, um you know, when George Floyd was killed about 5 miles from here, um our players created what they call the here initiative, helping end racism through education. And

58:28 because George Floyd was killed here, so helping end racism through education. Yhuru Williams, who is from the History Channel, comes in every month and we do a racism education course for about 80 minutes and he teaches it and everyone in the organization is required to be there. Um because I think everybody locked arms uh after George Floyd was killed and everybody marched on the streets and every coach and player were together. And then what I thought happened was like racism and like COVID kind of got put in the same bracket and boom, CO ended. So, oh, we're not going to talk about racism anymore. That must end it, too. Which is farthest from the 400year history of of racism in in America. So, like I want our players to be the best version of themselves and have incredible empathy for other people. And I'm not saying that we all have to to to like each other, but we have to respect each other. And I think

59:18 that's what's being lost in our society. And I think that as a head coach, you have to set that example and that course where we all take that piece. Uh and I think that's what makes us really really unique in the transformational world where people don't have time to do that. I'm paying you to be a great player. Be the great player. I care less what kind of person you are. Uh and I'm not going to spend time and budget and finance to do that. Um and I'm just willing to do that. So um we have a I think part of the job as a head coach is to develop your coaches. So, I do a coaching development series. I I have a coach speak every Thursday in front of the team on any topic they want to hit on.

59:55 My job is to develop my coaches to be head coaches, to be coordinators. I don't know how much longer I'm going to do it. I'm not saying I'm retiring tomorrow. Um, but I don't know how much longer I'm going to do it. If I can't give a 100, then I'm not going to I'm not going to do it at all. Um, but I think that that kind of separates it a little bit is the speaking series from what we do. Um, and then I would say the last thing for transformational is like our themes. Um, I do a purpose three for the whole year. Like our our our number one purpose three uh this year is e- plurbusum and it's written on the the dollar bill and it really means connect one um bring people together be become one. Um and that's what I want this team to this particular team to do. So everything has to fit within those purpose threes. Once we hit the season, we do an actual theme. And I'll give you an example.

1:00:48 Like this year we did like uh if anybody could see that rock and row, everything has row in it and everything has how in it. That's Goldie with like a skull. But that was the logo for the theme of the year. And then we kind of go on tour, right, of all the people. And then what we do each week is we take our opponent and remember I got to find cultural ways to teach lifetime lessons. So, I'll take a rock and row band and then we'll study that band. That's the only thing that'll play in practice. And the whole week is studying how that opponent and this band have a lot in common of what we're walking into. And again, transformational. It takes a lot of thought and a lot of planning, a lot of team meetings to do that. But this is an example of like when they win Goldie dress. This is Bruce Springsteen. But Bruce Hine, see the how in there, right?

1:01:38 The how. So how is everywhere but every week is this week was rock and roll rock and roll band. Uh but if you win um and our second theme that year was that week was hunt. But anyway you you take that and it makes players in a small way if you can add all those up of like fun things that they look forward to that subliminally you're doing that they can't wait to hear what's coming up next. Can't wait to hear what the children's book is. They can't wait to see what the theme is. The the greatest thing you'll see in our building is during the season on Sundays when we come in from the team meeting after a win. They can't wait to pick the color shirt.

1:02:17 Then it's the talk of the locker room and they get five options and we put them up there and they're booing. They're cheering for a a pink shirt or a teal shirt. We put these wild colors out there. So I think that people are losing in my opinion that that connection that fun. What made elementary school different than high school was that connection with your teachers, that connection with your your coaches, uh that connection with the people that you were around, with your classmates. And I think that that's what I think people are striving for. And maybe what made Indiana really special this year was that connection and that group of people um and they became a team. And I think that's the biggest thing that, uh I think we strive for every day, uh as leaders of this organization that we're here to transform it. and my job is to make sure everybody gets better, including coaches and coaching the

1:03:08 coaches is a big part of what I do. Um, and uh, allowing them to have that empowering them to have that ability to change other people's lives and not running this as a dictatorship. Uh, I think early in my career, I was a I ran it that way. We're going to do it because I said so and I went one and that was awful. I mean, I did so many things that were so wrong so early, but thank God I did them and and was and had people around me saying, "Hey, we got to get that better." Or, "Hey, if you're doing that, you should probably do this." Uh, and those are the mentors in my life. And um and like I said, that's why I think everybody should have to have to not have success first because um it teaches you so much about what's authentic, what's not, what's real, what's your responsibility, what's other people's responsibility. And last thing I'll leave you with is one of the greatest things I ever learned was a

1:03:57 coach's job is to teach and demand. A player's job is prepare and perform. And that could be in life, that could be in football, that can be in anything. Um, you know, coaches, we teach, but you better teach. You're not asking. Uh, you it's it's teaching people things truly teaching life, football, sport, relationships. Um, and then there's the demanding part because we're not we're not asking. We're demanding we get that done because that's the goal we set. And then players jobs are prepare and perform. And uh, elite teams, players lead, average teams, coaches lead, and and bad teams, nobody leads, but the elite teams, players lead. And our job is to get as many of those guys as we possibly can to the front of the bus.

1:04:41 So, um, yeah. Thank you very much, guys, for having me on. BJ, this is this is amazing. Really, really appreciate it. Thanks everybody for being here and uh yeah man, I would love to continue our dialogue as we both progress and love to watch one of those practices come up to Minnesota and see it. Man, you're always welcome. Everybody roll the boat, Sky M. Go Gophers and thanks for having me on. Love it, man. Thanks, PJ. See you guys. Bye bye.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "The Most inspiring coach in football? | P.J Fleck’s Turnaround Blueprint"?

Ryan Hawk (Host), P.J. Fleck (Guest).

What is "The Most inspiring coach in football? | P.J Fleck’s Turnaround Blueprint" about?

The discussion centers around P.J. Fleck's coaching philosophy, emphasizing the importance of leadership and cultural teachings in football and life. Key points include the necessity of resilience, the role of mentorship, and the impact of personal tragedy on his coaching approach, underscoring the importance of perseverance and personal growth in the face of challenges.

What is mentioned in this Ryan Hawk episode?

12 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including PJ Fleck, Minnesota, Jim Trestle, Mike Nolan, Western Michigan, Northern Illinois Huskies. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The Most inspiring coach in football? | P.J Fleck’s Turnaround Blueprint"?

The episode runs 1 h 5 min; the transcript is about 14,170 words in 112 timestamped sections.

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