Transcript

Mike Tyson on Discipline, Power, and the Cost of Greatness

From Sean Callagy · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 48 min · 9,747 words · 165 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Mike Tyson on Discipline, Power, and the Cost of Greatness", an episode of Sean Callagy published December 16, 2025 (48 min, about 9,747 words). It mentions 4 people, works and ideas, including Customato, Akira the Don, Rocky, Michael Rousion.

What this episode is about

The discussion centers on Mike Tyson's experiences with discipline, mentorship, and the journey to greatness, emphasizing his relationship with legendary trainer Cus D'Amato. Tyson reflects on the transformative impact of D'Amato's guidance in his life, illustrating the interplay between power, vulnerability, and personal evolution in the face of adversity.

Key takeaways

  • Mentorship can transform a life; Tyson credits Customato for steering him from crime to championship.
  • Facing fear is the first round to victory; Tyson turned his terror into tenacity in the ring.
  • Violence breeds irony: Tyson's hard-knock life led to a soft-hearted mentor who sparked his boxing career.
  • From prison to podium; even the fiercest fighters need guidance to channel their chaos into character.
  • Tyson’s greatest opponent? Self-doubt; mastery is not just about fists, it’s about learning to believe.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Customato
  2. – 10:00: Customato, Michael Rousion
  3. – 20:00: Akira the Don
  4. – 25:00: Customato
  5. – 45:00: Rocky
  6. – 48:16: Customato

Notable quotes from "Mike Tyson on Discipline, Power, and the Cost of Greatness"

  • Yeah, pleasure. So, Mr. Tyson, we talk a lot about mentorship and leadership here and your relationship with Customato is literally one of the most famed relationships ever…
    about Customato · at
  • All that today. but what are other I had the honor of interviewing Michael Rousion from the Miracle and Ice Team, the Olympic gold medalist, [clears throat] right? He played…
    about Michael Rousion · at
  • So, how do you tell the difference though? Right. So, at some point, Don King comes in and I'm not here, I'm I'm not here to put you say anything you don't want to say, right?
    about Akira the Don · at
  • About this like movies? So, I know you said you love cartoons, you cry cartoons. I know you love the Rocky movie. I know you love Bruce Lee. Any other things? So, I know you…
    about Rocky · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Customato — Person · Referenced mentor (central to episode) · 4 mentions · first at
    Referred to as Tyson’s life-changing mentor; the episode centers on how his discipline, fear-based authority, and belief shaped Tyson.
  • Akira the Don — Person · Referenced promoter / cautionary example · 2 mentions · first at
    Discussed as someone who entered Tyson’s life after Cus died, illustrating vulnerability after losing a mentor and the idea of “bad mentors.”
  • Michael Rousion — Person · Referenced interviewee (host’s prior guest) · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as someone the host previously interviewed to draw parallels between elite coaching (Brooks) and Tyson’s mentorship (Cus).

Media & podcasts

  • Rocky — Media · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned in the context of Mike Tyson's admiration for the movie and its inspirational themes.

Full transcript with timestamps

I was scared to death of him. Okay. I was scared to death. That's why I didn't do no stupid [ __ ]

How does that make you feel? [snorts] We did it. Ali would talk about your mother, your sisters having sex with why he's fighting.

Muhammad Ali in his prime with Angela Dundee. Mike Tyson in his prime custom motto. What happens? It's like what does that look like? What is that all about? Hey, welcome to the Sean Callie Unblinded podcast. We're causing people to see what they don't see about how to grow their money, their time, their magic with absolute integrity. We're here today with a master of masters. We're going to introduce in one second, Mr. Mike Tyson. And my name is Sean Caligie. We are right now the number one business podcast Apple podcast in the world.

Yeah, we're going to be the undisputed champs there. Uh Mr. Mike Tyson and we're going to give you a quick intro if that's okay. Yeah. Tink, please. Who's this man? Today we welcome a living myth, a man who rose from the storm swept streets of Brooklyn to become the youngest heavyweight champion in history. Mike Tyson is not just a force of nature in the ring, but a symbol of raw resilience, transformation, and the relentless pursuit of truth. His fists wrote history, but his journey through the triumph, pain, and redemption reveals a heart as fierce as his punch.

Mike's story is one of power, vulnerability, and the courage to evolve. He's a warrior, a philosopher, and a beacon for anyone who's ever faced impossible odds and dared to rise again.

Mr. Mike Tyson, welcome. Thank you, sir. Yeah, pleasure. So, uh, Mr. Tyson, um, we talk a lot about mentorship and leadership here and your relationship with Customato is literally one of the most uh, famed relationships ever between a mentor and an apprentice, two masters like rising together. And you've spoken about so much what he meant to you, what it was. What I'd love to know is just at the outset, um, what did he mean to you? How would your life have been different? You think without the mentorship?

I don't like to think about how it would have been different. It's just bad. It looks bad. So, I always I'm one of those guys that believe it wasn't meant to happen, so it didn't happen. But if it if I didn't meet this guy, it would have been bad.

I just can't believe how I met this guy. I missed this guy from the sewer system of Brownsville, Brooklyn, and next thing you know, I'm 13 years old and I'm in the presence of a master. Well, how did that happen? I know nothing. Only thing I know is crime. That's all I know. Crime. I've been in um detentions all my life, reform schools, and I'm in front of this guy.

Yeah. And how how did you meet him? And was I was um I was in a um reformatory.

Got it. And this is how I started the boxing cuz I had just I was in this other um fraternity and and unfortunately I stabbed somebody there. So they shipped me to this other place that was a really not a nice place. You know, before the other place you could go outside, but that you had stayed in this place constantly. And so I went there and as I was as I got there, I was locked up. I couldn't come in population yet, but I saw guys running to the back going to their rooms and they had cracked ribs. They had cracked teeth, but they were happy. And I'm like, yo, what's going on in there?

I couldn't believe the blood. They happy. and they say they're boxing with Mr. Stewart. It was the ex-professional boxer there. They used to box with the kids if they behaved themselves cuz they So these guys were always on the top I um honor the roll in because they wanted to box with the stew. Even though he was killing them, they wanted to go and box with him. So I'mma box this guy, right? Little white guy. I'm going go in there and box them. Never boxed before. You know, you think they're smaller than you, you could beat them. So I'm in swearing away. He's waiting. He got me tight. Hit me in the stomach. I never been hit in the stomach in my life. I WENT DOWN and then I asked him, "Could you show me that stuff?" And I never thought about being a boxer. I'm thinking about I could do this, knock a guy out, and go in his pockets. I never thought about being a boxer. So, he started teaching

me once I got my grades up. I had to get my grades up in order for him to do that.

And he started teaching me and teaching me and teaching me. And then eventually he I hit him and he had got a black eye one day and he was mad the next day. And I didn't understand why he was mad cuz he always kills me, right? But he was mad because his wife said, "I can't he couldn't box with me no more." But he said, "Don't worry, I'm going take you to somebody else and we're going to go to the next level." I had no idea what he was talking about at all. He took me there. Cuss met me and said all these great things about me the first day that I didn't believe. I thought he was some weirdo kind of perve guy saying all these great things about me. He didn't even know me. Said, "Well, you ought to be champ if you listen to me." And everything he told me was right. I didn't know who this guy was, but he was like um he was like godsend. There's no doubt.

When I met him, I believed in God. That's amazing. Thank you. And uh the power of mentorship, leadership, God, you know, in the space. We'll talk about all that today. Um but what are other I I had the um the honor of interviewing Michael Rousion from the Miracle and Ice Team, the Olympic gold medalist, [clears throat] right? He played for Herb Brooks and you know he would describe Herb Brooks as one of the most difficult, challenging, aggressive but masterful humans and his love for Her Brooks resonates. I mean Her Brooks didn't save his life saved yours. Um but the the rise in his mastery was so powerfully present um through the the level of mastery that Herb Brooks demanded. And you know you're coming from a place where you can't trust people. You you know come up in gangs.

We'll talk about that in a little bit. But there's all these people who've tried to use you, hurt you, lie to you, you know, dynamics in your home, you know, your folks, your beautiful relationship with your mom, absent dad, all these things are going on. And as you said, you thought custom was a weird horrible relationship with my mother.

I'm sorry. You said I had a good relation. I had a horrible relationship with my mother.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't I had heard positive things. That's true. Yeah. So, so you had all these people who let you down in in ways from your mom, dad, all you know, community, I'm sure, teachers, people. You meet Customato and you think for a second he's um, you know, a weird guy, lying, just say nice things to you to use you, right? Um, what were some of the hardest moments with him? You know, we watched the movie The Karate Kid, and Daniel at some point is telling Mr. Miyagi thinks he's full of it, and he's using him, and he just wants him to sand his deck, wipe his floors, and he's ready to quit. When there are times like that with customado, they're hanging. Yeah, please.

You know, the same thing. He was a he was a strong believer in discipline to the tea. You know, discipline to him was doing what you hated to do, but do it like you love it. You know what I mean? He loved the art of suffering.

No, really, he loved the art of suffering. And what were some of the the hardest things that Customado put you through where you doubted him the most? If you doubted him? Hey, listen. Um, I never doubted him. I doubted me.

I doubted me. And I never could see what this man could see in me. This white old 70-y old Italian man. What did he see in me?

Wow. I never, you know, I was 12 years old. I never lived life, but as I get older, I can see now.

Wow. But I mean, so, but that's incredible that you didn't doubt him. Um, no. Because I told, he told me this. He said, "If you listen to me, everything I say and it don't work, you can go home and I'll give you money, too. You can go." And I started listening to him. And then and I started knocking people out. I became national champion, the world amateur champion. This guy, this guy. This is in a year. These guys, it takes years for these kids to win these titles that I'm winning. I'm winning them in one year.

Wow. Yeah. I was a big star when I was a kid. One year. Takes people years to win this title. being me being with him took me one year,

right? And and for everybody to remember because I think it could be easy, right? Um it's so hard for me to call you Mike, Mr. Tyson, but I call you Mike. You asked me to. So, thank you, Mike.

Um you know, you are gifted, right? You had talent, you had ability. That don't mean nothing,

right? Please explain that to people. That don't mean nothing. Will you have to have the will, the determination, the desire to win, right?

Talent means absolutely nothing. Everyone has talent. Everybody in this room has talent. But how how far do you want to go with it?

And that and I think that's such a critical point because so many people could look at you and see what you did at such a young age. And I think the point that I'm I'm taking away most and thank I'm learning today, you know, with you here is that you when you first started boxing didn't know how to box, right? The guy that's training you punched you and hit you in the stomach and you

Yeah. And then because of the m a master meeting somebody with incredible talent and ability you

no not with desire that wanted to do it. All that talent means nothing if I didn't want to do it.

Yeah. And why did you want to do it? Like what was it that was making you feel good and want to to put the suffering in with Kustomato? Like what was the why? All these other kids are there. Okay. Right. Yeah.

He made me believe that you if you didn't do this you were nothing. This was the thing to be the heavyweight champ of the world. The baddest man on the planet. He he did a number on my head.

He did a head job on me. Oh god. Yeah. And how do how do you do that? I did read about some of the the mind exercises and things and he would have you visualize. Oh, absolutely. Please tell us about some

visualization talk about you know day by day in every way. Well, I'm used to cry thinking about my old you know saying this when I was a kid.

And what was it that you said? day by day in every way you're getting better and better and better and that's just um that's the beginning stage. At the end of it you be next thing you know you're saying I'm [ __ ] God. It's just what it is. It's just you start from day by day but everywhere I'm get better better and better. Next thing you know I'm the best fighter ever live. That's just what confidence do to you. Confidence breeds success. Success breeds confidence.

Yeah. Well, amen. And would it be okay if we shared Let's go to the uh just the clip with Cus real quick. Okay. Yeah. Is that okay?

Please see him talking like that. Scares the [ __ ] out of me. I'm scared. I'm nervous. I'm not doing it right.

Your right your right shoulder. You see a little bit this way. It should be more this way. So when you're driving it, nothing to hold that blow. You're gonna do real damage. You might drop the guy with one punch, but you aim it here and bring the same hand. When he hits here, you have to bring it down. Even bring up bang over here. Bang. Took care of here.

I can say honestly, I have a very deep affection for him. I do. To me, he's my boy. He's with me. I often say to him, you know, I owe you a lot. He doesn't know what I mean, but I'm going to tell him now what I mean. If he weren't here, I probably wouldn't be alive today. The fact that he is here and doing what he's doing and doing as well as as he's doing and improving as he has gives me the motivation and interest to stay alive because I believe that a person dies when they no longer want to live. But I have a reason with with Mike here and he gives me the motivation. I will stay alive and I will watch him become a success because I will not leave until that happen.

How does that make you feel? We did it. And this isn't like a contrived moment, Mike. I've had incredible mentors in my life, too, that have caused things like custom. I wasn't world champ. I'd never be sitting here as a blind man. 75% of people like me are unemployed.

[snorts] And I'm here because I have my custom mottos as my high school coaches in athletics. That drove me like crazy. And this is something we try to bring out to the world because the things that you're talking about, Mike, are the things that we want the people here to know. We don't want to talk about ear bites and hangover movies and all that's beautiful. It's fun. It's magical and all the things you did. But what people want is what you have. People want to feel the way you feel about custom motto, about somebody in their life.

They want their life saved like you had your life saved. And that's what my purpose here in, you know, these next 30 minutes is to help bring out for people because if as Mike Tyson said, if he could do this, maybe he can't be the champion of the world, but he could be the champion your house and you could build a business and do things. So I think what this is all about not necessarily about ne being the champion of the world but you're the champion of your world you know and that's what life is about

being able like I said about cuss is always about sacrificing one day he is one day he may not eat for two months discipline all about discipline doing what he hates to do but doing it like he loves it he has love starving [snorts] himself or whatever it is may not want to drink water for a week or something he just likes pushing himself to the limit Yeah,

because he's so infatuated with discipline. Yeah. Can I tell you the truth about something,

please? Yeah. So, I thought a lot about these days coming up and it's really attractive, interesting, fun, sexy to have, you know, Mr. Mike Tyson here, you know, causes, views, people going to watch because of it. The most important reason that I want to be in this room is because I'm going to be the [ __ ] champion of changing people's lives on the [ __ ] planet. That is my outcome, my goal. and the people that put us together helping us do that with the truth because I want to be what custom motto was to people's lives and their businesses and I wanted to be here and feel the energy because I knew a lot of this backstory heard you you know all I'm going to say is I had the privilege of meeting you at Tony Robbins house and that day the stories you told and what you said this is what human beings need and people are so scared and so afraid and I know I've asked you a couple of times I'm going to

ask you try to ask you one more time though Mike what is so special about you is is that you didn't tell him to go [ __ ] himself. And so many people want to tell that person who is standing for their future to go [ __ ] off. You had you had no training, no background in listening to people and being disciplined at that. What I don't understand is the miracle of you and how you didn't tell that white guy to go [ __ ] himself and see him as using you. How did that happen? So people who are listening

can do the same thing so they can get the help they need and not be little runaway [ __ ] running. I want to know.

I was scared to death of him. I was scared to death. That's why I didn't do no stupid [ __ ]

He put the fear of God in me. How did he do that? I don't know. But he did it every day. I was a slave. Everything he told me I would do. If he told me to kill somebody, I would do it.

Amen. and lock that in everybody. Next time you feel like you got to go to like some consciousness retreat for mindset and be in flow, that's the champion of [ __ ] world that people would say was the greatest heavyweight of all time.

Nobody should talk. You should talk to yourself. No, we don't need to talk to nobody. Just I know it sounds crazy. You might want to be God. Talk to yourself about that.

You know, we don't know who we are. We might be God. We don't know. We might be the aliens we talking about. Oh, that guy the aliens. We might be. A matter of fact, I think we are the aliens. They got us thinking that some aliens like we're the aliens.

Yeah. Well, thank you. So, if I could ask you this, right? So, how do you tell the difference though? Right. So, at some point, Don King comes in and I'm not here, you know, I'm I'm not here to put you say anything you don't want to say, right? But Don King comes in, he's got to look like he's got a lot of value to bring to your life. He's going to promote fights, do things. How do people how if you if you could go back and tell your younger self like would you still have entered the relationship with

Dante? Why I'm explain this to you like I lost my mentor. I was injured. I was sick. I wasn't strong anymore. I lost the stress. A major part of me and so that's why I was really vulnerable.

I was looking for that um that role model. Yeah. And about how long this forgive me I don't know this. How long after Customado passed does Don King swoop in?

Two years probably. Got it. Well, no. One year Dan died in 83. No, 84. 85. So, this guy comes around a year and a half.

Got it. All right. Can we look at one thing real quick? We got two more video clips. Let's go see uh when Mike Tyson becomes the undisputed youngest the youngest heavyweight champion in history of the world. Let's go take a look at that right now. That was a right to the body and an uppercut to the head. And Fervick is down.

This one is going to be over. I believe it's over. That's all. And we have a new era in boxing. the winner by a TKO and youngest and new WBC heavyweight champion of the world, Michael.

I see my son in me just now. My little baby boy. See, you have your son's how old now?

He's 14. 14. You have a daughter's 16, right? Yeah. Okay. So, how do you feel when you see that? And what did Costamano say to you after that? Please.

Well, he he wasn't alive. He died before I became champ. Right. I I do. I'm sorry. From in your heart, your mind, what do you think Kustamada was saying to you?

Oh god, what he said about the fight? Yeah, you're sloppy. You meant moving your head. You're swinging one punch at a time. You're not moving. Listen, this let me explain what kind of guy we're talking about.

Yeah. I had an amateur fight. And listen, man. Please, when I say this, man, you have to believe I'm very serious. Okay?

I believe you. I'm an amateur fight. The um the national the finals, I knocked the guy out in eight seconds, right? No, no no. You know what C says? If that guy was a little bit more experienced, he would have hit you. You didn't move your head. You just went right through his power through like this mus went through without moving your head after you punch. If he was a little bit more experienced, he would have hit you. And you know, I'm scared. Like I said, I have the highest respect for him. And I Yeah, you're right, Chris. I do see that. You're right. But I didn't believe that. But I said, "Yeah, you do."

Because I was just afraid of the guy. I'm not gonna say no. Because no, I could have been No way. Cuz I would never talk to that. I would never do that. He never had to worry about me saying you're wrong. No, that would never happen. I say, "Yeah, you're right. I'm going to work on that. I'm work."

Michael and Michael, do you hear that? Michael. Michael, you hear that? No. Yeah. Yes. We're hearing it from this man.

Listen, you didn't want him to go on a rampage. She was a a a a anger freak. You didn't want to go to an army so you Yes, sir. Yes. Yes, sir. Yes.

Amen. Uh and the power the power of mentorship and leadership. Um you need it. What anyone doesn't have one is going to be screwed. I don't how much money he got or anything.

We've seen it happen to the richest guys how they just had nobody to take care of them and they just went to [ __ ]

So, let's go to that then. Mr. This is and again, thank you. This is incredible.

[snorts] Um, it really is like the value you're adding. Greatest podcast we've done yet. Facts. Love everybody. We've had a lot of famous people on. This is the best because it's the truth. It's not just, you know, luck and you had to work for everything. Go manto man in the arena and win.

Listen, listen, my guy was um if I went to a school dance, right, and and it was getting late and I was getting ready say I'm going to call wait. I'm waiting for the cap. He said, "Waiting for a cap. I got to stay up. Run home now. I got shoes on. I'm at the dance to school with the D. I leave my girl and start running. She got to catch a cat. I'm like, I can't wait for the cat. I'm serious. I got to start running home and shoot dressed up looking nice with my grand running home.

That is amazing. Uh, okay. So, custom auto passes. Um, what was that like for you and how does that turn into a different era of your life? It was almost suicidal. Like I didn't want to exist anymore. I wanted to do it with him. He made this, excuse me. He made this [ __ ] ride exciting. He's the one. He was the the push, you know. He made it exciting. I didn't know anything about being no champion. He made it exciting. From all my heart, I'm sorry. I am so sorry that happened. I'm sorry for you. I'm sorry for Customado and I'm sorry for the world because what that would have looked like and the rewriting you rewrote boxing anyway, but what that journey would have looked like if Customato was still there with you

to be meant to be. He's going to shake this place up. He was so proud of me, too. I wasn't even a proud me like me more than I like myself. [snorts]

See what that's what a mentor make you. Great mentor make you talk about. Amen. [snorts]

Little guy. He wasn't afraid of nobody. How big you are. Tough. If you wasn't afraid of nobody

and the reverence and love you hear from Mike Tyson, that's who you should beg to be your mentor, your coach, the person who's impacting you. Somebody who has the mastery of the skills and somebody who could cause this in your heart and your soul in your being.

No, a little old man 78, not afraid of nobody. Knife, gun, and he's not afraid of you. Not afraid. So [snorts] it's okay then Mike if I ask you um what happens from there when that mentorship is gone the vacuum is created other people come in how you what does that do to your trajectory your life your career from there

um it throws you off for a while I got blinded you know I was just fortunate you know I mean God you know I mean blessed me to last long enough. I didn't give in, you know, cuz during that p during those periods of time, you think about killing yourself, you know, and um I didn't do it. A couple of times I thought about when I got married, I thought about it. I got divorced, I thought about it. I just went through emotions. I never thought I could survive, you know, and I did it. I made it. You know, his training helped, you know.

Thank you. And so, um, choices people make. You have all these influencers online. I I love there's a quote that you said recently. It was something like, I'm not going to get exact. You put out something like, "Oh, people can hide behind their keyboards now and and be disrespectful and not get punched in the face."

Tell me about that. Tell me about we think about the world today. Think about people posing, pretending

to be something they're not, you know? Please. It's just that we live in a world now that um and listen, I'm not picking on no particular group any saying what it is,

you know. Um the computer what what's the what's the the thing we're on again? Chat GPT or

whatever it is. That's that's a pedophile or child rapist. That's his dream to have that. That's his dream. Those guys get in touch with more kids than anybody does now, you know. And that's been um and it's been um I I just didn't like I didn't like that. It gives all the bad guys all the power,

you know. It does. Well, if you can go back and give yourself some advice after Cuspass and talk to your younger self about it, doning becoming a part of your life, you know, what would you tell your younger self because some of this was really valuable. You made a lot of money.

No, listen. Um, I made a lot a lot of money. That wasn't a valuable was more valuable than making all that money was losing it. You know, that was more valuable than having any of it, you know, because you realize that um that that doesn't define you. You know, I realized even more than myself. I realized people looked at me, you're Mike with a billion dollars and your mic went with 40 cents. You're still Mike. You know, I never treated anybody bad when I was on top of my game. I never treated anybody bad when I wasn't doing what I used. I was always Mike and that's just what um that's just what I lived on.

No broke Mike, rich Mike, whatever. My mic. And how if you gave advice to somebody though, right? So you had you had an incredible mentor that you believe cared about you in the way you wanted to be cared about. Then later you had people come into your life that maybe I I'm not sure but it seemed like from things [snorts] I've heard and read that you said, right, that didn't care about you.

Well, they were mentors, too. They're bad mentors, but they're mentors, too. You learn from them as well.

I I look at everything that I experience in in life is just a learning point, a learning moment in my life. You know, something that I could either make it a crutch or else I can make it a a good experience and learn from it. Yeah. And and what did some of those people do? You know, it seems like Kus gave you discipline. He gave you tools, you know, and it seems like from what I've read and heard, I'm not sure, right? And you could tell me if I'm right or wrong. It seems like the bad mentors gave you vices, gave you, you know, parties and a surface level. Seems like custom gave you this deep level that you had purpose and other people tried to give you surface level things, you know, jewelry and cars and women and things like am I hearing that correctly? And

true. Listen, this is this is um this is what some people this is a guy like me powers having a lot of money to cuss powers giving money away.

That's the difference between him and some people. He believes the more you give away, the more powerful you are.

That's awesome. Well, that's just how he think. I don't think I think like him, but that's just how he think.

That's how he thinks. The more you get, the more you give. Awesome. And what do you think?

Huh? What do you think from here? Like what's what's life about for you from here? You know, what's you know, you have a beautiful family.

That's what it's all about. Caring about the people you care about and the people that care about you and your guys. Just love each other. That's that's what life is all about. You can't love the people that don't love you. Even if you love them, you can't make them love you because it's not meant to be. It's just the people who with you, even if not even if they're not blood family. I saw some people and I've done it too where sometimes your blood family is not doing right. So you have to make your own family in the street sometimes. So and it happens. Whoever you consider your family a lifelong friend, you stick together and you it's your guys against the world.

Well, thank you. And and let's go back then in time to that. Let's talk about, you know, some bigger problems in the world. you've seen it up close and personal. You said coming from, you know, Brownsville and all the the pain and insanity of that. Um, what do gangs Why are gangs so attractive to kids? And is there any solution to that? And and were there positive things that came out of for you being a gang?

I was really never a gang guy. We had crews friends. We never said we're the this or that. We just had friends with friends and we just hung together. We stole together. We just did a bunch of stuff together. But what you do get from gangs are power. Normally the guy normally the big tough guy on the the grocery corner. You go to the store, he's there to pick you up. But now he knows you got 20 guys that you hang out. You hang up with those 20 guys in the corner all the time. Huh? He's not going to say nothing to you but hi. That's just how it goes. He know you hanging out with all those guys that caused all that trouble. They're shooting people that shooting at people.

Hey man, how you doing? He's not going to bother to that guy anymore. And that's a little guy. He's not going to bother to him never again.

And maybe if he did, then what happened to him? If he lives through it, he'll never bother to those guys again. That's just what a gang does.

You only have one time to violate them. And And what's Can you imagine what kind of power that gives somebody that been picked on most of his life?

Yeah. Incredible. Right. It's like powerlessness to powerful. So is there a solution? You know, if you if you were there and you could do anything, tell the politicians or governors or or business people. Yeah. Anybody who cares. Yeah. How do we is there a fix? Like

let's get these guys some jobs. Prepare them for some jobs or something, you know,

every day. But listen, that's why, you know, listen, I'm just saying this because I know really there's some people in America just so good. They don't want to work. And they don't have to be poor. They could be middle. Sometimes they don't want to work and that's why we have problems with ICE cuz the people that are coming in here they want to work you know and I know I don't you know I know people don't like that but what are you going to do with people that want to work against people that don't want to work

you know I I know you understood that but I understand I understand this too I criminals coming in here killing people and murdering people too that got that has to stop

that's happen that's the only thing Trump they're not letting Trump really to go loose on he's they letting them hold he's holding back from the ICE people now. He's not allowing them really to do what he really feels they should do. I I'm just a strong believer that we should should protect the company this country and keep the people that want to be in this country and make this country stronger should be in this country.

Well, thank you. You're certainly one of those profound leaders. Um, and so for the for from here, uh, right, Mike Tyson, um, what's the rest of this journey? I hope you're here for another hundred years in this earth. What's it

Well, I wouldn't want to be alone. Yeah. God, no. But, um, but what is it about from here? Like, I mean, it's family, but it still things that on a on a mission level or professional level, you're here today.

A lot with family. family have to understand this that regardless on politician, religion, whatever it is, we're still family. We don't have to be enemies because we have different beliefs and what religion or politician we're still blood families. Let's not fight. You know, that's what that's what's going on now. Crazy. The biggest Listen, I think the this has probably been the biggest family dispute since the history of politics since Trump's been involved. Friends and family, they're having disputes now.

Amen. And so what we're hearing from Mike Tyson who get in the ring and knock somebody out and through the ropes is we're hearing uh let's come together

100%. Let's have peace. If he got Listen, what's the guy mandon the the communist guy? If he got along with that guy, God, what what enemies do he have? He does not matter. He's not mad at anybody. I never in a million years thought him and this guy would get along.

Not in a million years. Then I I was there at the White House and I saw the the meet. It was beautiful. Had never had didn't have the slightest idea that would go that way.

That's beautiful. So, um, with that heart and that love, uh, at one point you have a fight with an Olympic gold medalist, Michael Spanx, and me and my friends save up all of our money and it costs like $40 to go see in a movie theater about 20 minutes from here in Hackinack, New Jersey. We get our popcorn, we get our soda, we're ready to see Mike Tyson and Michael Spinx go at it. And um would you give me my 40 bucks back?

That's what I was I was told that for a long time. So let's go. Let's go see what that looks like.

Oh god. Lands to the head of Mike. It's Tyson all the way round number one. Shots to the body. Nothing really heavy landing yet, but he's taking them. The uppercut. Body shot. Down he goes. My space for the first time. The count is up to four and five and six and seven and eight. That was a body shot that took him down. Here comes Mike Spakes in. He leaves the right hand. He goes, "I DON'T THINK YOU'LL GET UP FROM THIS." Mike Spakes IS LAYING FLAT ON HIS BACK. THE COUNT IS UP TO FIVE. It's six. It's seven AND EIGHT. HE WON'T BE ABLE TO DO IT. IT'S ALL OVER. Mike Tyson has won it. Fix that throw. A dramatic first round knockout for Mike Tyson.

Unbelievable fight. pain in the first round. I didn't even get a sip of my soda.

That's really wild. I don't even know that guy. I look at that guy. Who the hell?

How do you feel about that guy that did that to Michael Spinx? He was just a child. I was in love for really the first time. I never had a really a girlfriend before. And I'm 21 years old. I have a wife. You really? I probably have one or two girlfriends. And the next thing you know, I have a wife. I didn't even I wasn't even experienced with women or nothing. I just wanted to be a fighter. I was really a a knob head back then. I

And how how afraid of you when you came out there? Could you feel the fear of your opponent when you were getting the instructions or you didn't feel that? You didn't think about that? Like what was present? Like what were you thinking? Was in your mind as you're standing there against Michael Spinx? Could you feel his it looked like he was afraid? I'm just waiting for the bell to ring.

You want the bell to ring cuz that's not going to do anything. It's looking at each other. You know, you want to hit the guy to make something happen. It's going to go ding.

That's awesome. Could you could you feel the fear of your opponents at that time? Like that they would be standing there. Could you feel their fear or you weren't feeling that?

I could feel I could you could listen. You know, let me I try to explain this. It depends on it's all about energy. Sometimes I go into the the ring, center of the ring with my attitude, and the guy puts his head down and he doesn't look at me and I go back to the corner. I say, "This guy's coming to fight." And I'm going to keep my hands up and he's trying to move my head cuz I can see he's I can tell when the guy doesn't look at me, normally nine times out of 10, probably eight out of 10, he's coming to charge right at me. He's coming at me.

It never fails. It never fails because I see the energy tells me I'm giving it all. I don't give a damn. just gonna go all out there and give it my best. And that's pretty scary cuz Scott somebody comes out and he doesn't care. You know, anything can happen, has nothing to lose.

Little nervous. He come back a little nervous to the ring. He said, "Wow, he's going to give he'll give it all out the first round."

Well, thank you for that. So, um, how many minutes we have left? 10. 10. Okay. So,

we here for 30 minutes already. 35. Really? We're having fun. We kicking ass. So now, okay, I'm gonna ask you some questions that again, I I I promise not try to put you on the spot and we spot,

you know, okay, I love Muhammad Ali. I love Mike Tyson. Muhammad Ali in his prime with Angela Dundee.

Oh, Mike Tyson his prime custom motto. What happens like what does that look like? What is that all about? Right. So Mike, you know, Muhammad Ali never loses those years in his career.

Kusler loved that fight. K loves Muhammad Ali so much. He loved that stuff. Um I love Ali. Ali is the greatest ever in my mind. I just think he's the greatest. He inspired me. When I first um I was in an institution called Sparit in New York City and we came there and they showed the movie, it's about 1977. They showed the movie The Greatest. Then the lights went on and Muhammad Ali walked in. You know, like I go to visit those kids at homes, he came to visit us. I said, "Wow." And I and I wanted to be like I want to be like that guy. And then next time I go to the next um reformatory, some guy teach people how to box. It was just ordained by God for it to happen. For me to see him and say, "Wow."

So what do you think that fight before you get into who would have won a loss? Like what do you think the fight would have looked like? What would it have been like? like putting your styles together like tell us about that fight.

This is what different about Muhammad Ali that other people don't see. Ali is um he's just different. It's hard to explain him. It's just hard to explain this guy, you know, because um he's the kind of guy like we say a guy like Lifon and Lif and George F. Those guys are ferocious animals, monsters. Like they kill anybody. But Ali handles him, those two guys like they're nothing. Those anybody else, those guys would kill him. Wipe the floor with them. But Ali beats them like they're not. Then they fight Ali. Ali's like two for he fighter like two for anybody could win. He fight Norton.

Then two, anybody could Norton and Frager fight these guys. Former kills them like they're nothing. They fight Ali. Ali get Ali. They almost kill each other. Him and Ali. Ali fight these monsters. He kills him, he knocks them out. So Styles has a lot to do with fighting. You know, the bigger and tougher you are, the more Ali kicks your ass. These guys that not as tough as those other guys, they give them tough fights for some reason.

Styles make fights. Yeah. So, how about putting your styles together? What What would that have looked like? What do you think would have happened? What do you think Custom Mada would have said would have happened?

Wow. I don't know. He never was. He He told me nobody in the world could beat Muhammad Ali when I was a kid.

Well, here's something he told me. Here's something I'm going to tell you. And I'm not a boxer. I was a baseball player, football player, wrestler,

and I'm not custom mot. And here's something I have never wanted to admit because my because Muhammad Ali was my favorite of all time, right? is I truly believe and I don't want to say this but I truly believe you would have beat Muhammad Ali and at that Spanx fight my friends and I sat there and they were they were even bigger Mike Tyson fans than I was. I I really appreciated you. I was like you're you're great and amazing but I loved Ali. So anything that was even getting near Ali's legend I was like no no no no no. Right. Like like so I was like Larry Holmes no way he beat Muhammad Ali when Muhammad Ali was already old. No way. No way. So when you were coming up, I was afraid that you were going to become the greatest of all time and replace Muhammad Ali. I truly believe this. I do believe you would have beaten Muhammad Ali.

Thank you. I do. Yeah. I know. But that's pretty awesome. I really appreciate that. You know, but me when I look at Ali, you know, I think of the guys he beat and the kind of men that he beat, the personality they are.

Like listen, as soon as they come out, they come off of the airport, a bus station, they see a cop, a cop. This during racist time, the late late 50s, early 60s. He see a cop, he goes right after what? Boom boom boom boom boom.

They killed blacks for so much less than that back then. And you know, and Ali beat these guys like they're nothing. Talk about their mother. Talk about screwing their sisters and mothers fight. No, listen. You think I'm playing? Listen. Um

Ali was fighting for me, right? and the the um the announcer ones that talked to the referee what was going on in the clinches with him informed and the referee oh my god I can't say what he was saying oh you can't believe what he was saying about the guy's sister and his mother I just can't tell the referee was saying he was just saying this is I can't say what he was saying I just can't believe he said that and he said I can't believe he had time to say that while he's fighting Ali would talk about your mother your sisters having sex Why he's fighting? Why he's fighting? He's talking about all this crazy stuff. Ali wasn't a normal guy, man. He something was wrong with him. How do you How you in a fight of your life?

This guy's a killer. You talk about his mother and his sister doing thing. Oh god. Cuz Joe Fraser, did you hear this man? This man is crazy. He's talking. No one. How do you talk about a guy mother Joe Fraser think he's totally out of his mind? How does he have chance to talk while he's got fighting these guys talking about the mothers and sisters God?

So what I'm hearing Mike Tyson say is that the reason Muhammad Ali was the greatest or may have been the greatest who knows what would have happened with Mike Tyson without the loss of Customado who is in I mean inarguably people say that you Ali are the two greatest heavyweights of all time. Uh which is interesting because Rocky Marciano was undefeated but it was a different time different place. But what I'm hearing you say is that the reason, one of the reasons Muhammad Ali was so great and so successful is because his influencing skills, his ability to control people's minds when they fought like the rope a dope and zire.

Absolutely. Tell us tell us about that. No, he just gave people hope. He beat the greatest odds.

That's what was big about Ali. He when anybody say he was going to lose listen a monster then and then then after that then listen protege another ferocious vicious scary monster then he beats him like then nothing people are worried people are writing letters please don't fight him don't fight him then he beats these guys

people cuz because Joe Frasier had beaten Ali after he came out of the Supreme Court thing and then Foreman destroys Frasier right

and Norton as well and Norton as well and then those both got they both beat the [ __ ] out of Ali Frrazier and they the only two guys that beat Ali

and this guy is obliviated though. Incredible. Well, it I mean how amazing is it and honor to talk to Mike Tyson about Muhammad Ali in these fights? Like this is a dream of mine. So, thank you for that as well. In our final couple minutes, um you know, Mike, the what do you do for fun? I know your family. I know you you love pigeons at I knew somebody who knew you at one point. I think you had a hawk. Is that right? At one point you had a hawk that you play with in the desert,

right? Uh, I was on the phone one time with someone who was on the phone with you when you were out with your hawk in the desert and that was a, you know, a fun special moment. I was like listening as as you were doing that. But what's fun for you now? I know you love animals. I know you love kids. You have a charity.

Believe it or not, I can't believe I'm this way. It's my wife and my kids, you know. Um, it's a trip. And I mean all the kids, all eight of them, not just the younger ones, but just all of them. They all became even though we have our different beliefs and stuff cuz they're adults but um we always support each other. We always family together and some of them don't get along but I know they they fight together for each other. We're just family

you know and sometimes I wonder myself wonder what it's like being my my siblings being my daughter. Is that a pain in the neck or something? That pressure?

I'm sure it is. I'm sure it is. How about this like um movies? So, I know you said you love cartoons, you cry cartoons. I know you love the Rocky movie. I know you love Bruce Lee. Any other things? So, I know you love Rocky, Bruce Lee. Any other cartoons, things like what are movies, heroes, stories that you like to watch or Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. I love the the um I like the Jet Lee movies and all that stuff. The um the Sunday movies on Kung Fu Theater and all that stuff when I was a kid cuz that's pretty much inspirational stuff. And mostly they're fighting. They're not fighting another clan. They're fighting the Japanese. And it's all about sacrifice. You're stronger than me. You could you you could the people will follow you. So let me sacrifice my life and you come back and avenge me. You know, in America, you say, "Let I'm going sacrifice myself and you avenge me." You say, "Yes, go sacrifice." Soon as you die, boom, the hell with you. We take all the money for ourselves. But those guys, they just gave you dignity and pride. And all the black kids went there because that that was the core of the gang, the gang theory, too. We all stick together as one. The Chinese movies, that was that that's what that was all about. We stick with our clan

and we we um we avenge each other. Thank you. Uh Mike, I'm hearing respect, honor, um leadership. And so if maybe we begin to draw close with this, um do you think about being remembered? Some people I don't I don't care about that. And some people, you know, do do you care about being remembered? And if so, what do you want to be remembered for?

Not that much, but if I But if it's if I have to be remembered for someone, I never [ __ ] nobody over that didn't have it coming to them.

Me, too. That's why Yeah, that's what I want to be known for. Amen. Um, I want to thank you for the honor of coming here today, the trust. Um, I thought this was going to be amazing and masterful. It blew my mind it was 100x, but I swear to God. Do I say what I don't mean?

Nope. No, I do not. Did you talk to my wife? I will. Do you never talk to her? Uh, I will.

Did you talk to Bella? I'll talk to your wife. You never talk to her. She had all the I thought you talked to She had all the nice things. She knew everything about you

and you never talked to her, huh? I didn't. Yeah. Wow. I thought you talked to her before we got this going on.

I would I would I would be honored. No, she knew everything about you. That's why.

No, thank you. That's why I thought you talk. Yeah. And some That's interesting.

Thank you. And what I what I'd love you to know as we we close. Um is I think that people chase the wrong things. Um what custom model taught you is what I was taught by incredible high school coaches, leaders. Um people told me I could never be a division one athlete and baseball player. I was captain of my team. I was going to go on and play professionally if it wasn't for going blind. And I channeled it into the business and the things we do. And what I what I would love you to know about me uh as we close is that there's and the world, Mr. Tyson, is that there's people out there who really do care like Customato did. And I'm one of those people. And my life, my stand is for people to unlock their greatness. And what you have done for me today is priceless. Because here's what it is. I back off sometimes the way custom motto didn't. And I give space to people in ways I shouldn't because I don't want

them to feel bad or be mad at me. And that's not what custom motto did for you. It's not what my coaches did for me. Because Mr. Mike Tyson, you blessed me on a Saturday morning with coming to this space. You've made me a better leader. You reminded me of the truth. and I am going to be a 100x more powerful, more effective leader than I was walking that door. I was doing pretty good before, but you've made me better and so is Customado and it's been an honor and privilege, Mr. Mike Tyson, to have you here.

I can't believe my wife hadn't talked to me because she told me that she was talking about you like she knew you and talked to you and everything.

Oh, thank you. Thank you. And any any final things that you'd like to share today?

I'm just happy that I came here. It's really happy that I came. Thank you. God bless you, sir.

Thank you so much, brother. Thank you, Mr. M Tyson back. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Thank you.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Mike Tyson on Discipline, Power, and the Cost of Greatness"?

Sean Callagy (Host), Mike Tyson (Guest).

What is "Mike Tyson on Discipline, Power, and the Cost of Greatness" about?

The discussion centers on Mike Tyson's experiences with discipline, mentorship, and the journey to greatness, emphasizing his relationship with legendary trainer Cus D'Amato. Tyson reflects on the transformative impact of D'Amato's guidance in his life, illustrating the interplay between power, vulnerability, and personal evolution in the face of adversity.

What is mentioned in this Sean Callagy episode?

4 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Customato, Akira the Don, Rocky, Michael Rousion. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Mike Tyson on Discipline, Power, and the Cost of Greatness"?

The episode runs 48 min; the transcript is about 9,747 words in 165 timestamped sections.

More from Sean Callagy

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.