B. Dylan Hollis | Baking Across America: A Vintage Recipe Road Trip | Talks at Google

Who speaks in this episode?

• B. Dylan Hollis (Guest)

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: B. Dylan Hollis, Baking Across America, Chicago, Creme de menthe
2. 5:00 – 10:00: B. Dylan Hollis, Mac Miller, Chicago, Tasting History
3. 10:00 – 15:00: B. Dylan Hollis, Palmer House, Chicago, Mojave nuggets
4. 15:00 – 20:00: B. Dylan Hollis, Baking Across America
5. 20:00 – 25:00: B. Dylan Hollis, Bertha Palmer, Palmer House, Chicago
6. 25:00 – 30:00: B. Dylan Hollis, Bertha Palmer
7. 30:00 – 35:00: Palmer House, Baking Across America, Chicago, Bertha Palmer
8. 35:00 – 40:00: Palmer House, Bertha Palmer
9. 40:00 – 45:00: B. Dylan Hollis, Palmer House, Baking Across America
10. 45:00 – 49:36: B. Dylan Hollis, Palmer House

Notable quotes from "B. Dylan Hollis | Baking Across America: A Vintage Recipe Road Trip | Talks at Google"

• So yes, we are so excited to have B. Dylan Hollis with us today.

  about B. Dylan Hollis · at 0:45

• So I was OK, instead of laying out my old cookbooks by decade, I'm going to lay them out by state.

  about Baking Across America · at 2:55

• A contemporary of mine, a friend of mine, Max Miller of Tasting History, really goes way back.

  about Tasting History · at 5:18

• It was a Five Roses Flour cookbook, which was a Canadian flour brand.

  about Five Roses Flour · at 7:16

• B. DYLAN HOLLIS: And my favorite recipe that I've baked so far is actually in the book, if you don't mind my saying.

  about Mojave nuggets · at 10:03

• And Bertha was on this board preparing for the World's Fair in Chicago, 1893.

  about Bertha Palmer · at 24:19

• The Palmer House, the interesting thing about the Palmer House is when I was shooting for Baking Across America and doing all of this, I was able to carry this baked good through the doors of the very institution that birthed it.

  about Palmer House · at 32:15

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• B. Dylan Hollis — Person · Main guest · 40 mentions · first at 0:45
  Interview subject and live demonstrator; discusses his pandemic-era rise baking vintage recipes, his books, and performs a live Palmer House brownie demo.
• Bertha Palmer — Person · Historical figure referenced (origin story subject) · 5 mentions · first at 23:27
  Central to the origin story of the Palmer House brownie; discussed as the person who requested a special dessert for a Chicago World's Fair-related luncheon.
• Mac Miller — Person · Referenced peer/expert · 2 mentions · first at 5:20
  Mentioned as a contemporary who goes further back historically (1800s and earlier) with recipe reconstruction; used as a contrast to Hollis’s typical era focus.
  A contemporary of mine, a friend of mine, Max Miller of Tasting History, really goes way back.

Books & papers

• Baking Across America — Book · Primary recommendation · 4 mentions · first at 3:02
  The book discussed in the episode, featuring recipes shot and baked across various locations in America.

Products & tech

• Creme de menthe — Product · Incidental · 2 mentions · first at 4:39
  Mentioned as an old ingredient used in recipes like grasshopper pie.
  But a lot of these you can still find, especially in a wonderful place like Chicago.
• Mojave nuggets — Product · Incidental · 1 mention · first at 10:08
  Mentioned as a favorite recipe in the book, made with dates and coconut.
• Five Roses Flour — Product · Incidental · 1 mention · first at 7:16
  Mentioned as a Canadian flour brand used in old cookbooks.

Places & events

• Palmer House — Place · Setting · 11 mentions · first at 14:45
  A historic hotel in Chicago where the Palmer House brownie was created and where recipes were shot.
• Chicago — Place · Setting · 5 mentions · first at 3:17
  Mentioned as a location where recipes were shot and baked for the book 'Baking Across America'.
  Normally you're in a studio, you get multiple takes, and you don't get that when you're on the dusty streets of Chicago carrying an atomic cake down the avenues.

Media & podcasts

• Tasting History — Media · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 5:20
  Mentioned as a contemporary show that goes back to 1800s recipes.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:05 LILAH JONES: Hello, everybody. My is Lilah Jones. I'm a part of the Cloud team. And I have the distinct pleasure today to introduce you to someone who needs no introduction. I will let you think about it even though you already saw who he is when you walked in. But this gentleman became very, very popular and learned about and got excited about baking during the pandemic. He actually started playing around with old cookbooks and recipes, I think, out of boredom, and created the amazing books that he's selling and promoting and a wonderful experience for all of us who are reading it and eating it.

0:45 So yes, we are so excited to have B. Dylan Hollis with us today. And he is somebody that is not only funny and is super popular, obviously, on social media, but he's got a great background. He was a jazz pianist, which is amazing. And it's just been so much fun getting to know him backstage here for a few minutes. So welcoming B. Dylan Hollis to come on up. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Hello. Hello everybody. Thank you so much for that. LILAH JONES: Thank you for joining us. Have a seat. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Thank you. LILAH JONES: OK, so if you haven't seen his book, it's amazing.

1:27 The photos are out of this world. I have got to just jump right into how did you come up with the idea for the photos? How did you come up with the idea for this book and this genre of writing? B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Well, if you folks aren't familiar, I bake through old cookbooks on social media, and I started finding them in antique stores, estate sales. I would pick them up and go through them and try to find really awful, or I call them my three W's, wild, wacky, and wonderful. Any recipe that seems to fit that descriptor, I'm interested in.

2:03 But I would upload these and the responses would be, oh, I remember when my mother used to make this, or I remember when my aunt used to make this, or please heavens, don't remind me of that ever again. But then I would do a recipe that was famous in a particular place. We were talking backstage about St. Louis. LILAH JONES: St. Louis. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: The city of St. Louis. And there they have something called a gooey butter cake. And I uploaded this video for a gooey butter cake. But the comments were very different.

2:30 Instead of saying, oh yes, I remember this, I remember that, people went feral. And they said, this is the pride of my city. They were so patriotic about a set of instructions to create a dessert. But they were talking like it was a hometown hero. To circle back to your question, that's when I knew that there's got to be more gooey butter cakes, more recipes like that. So I was like, OK, instead of laying out my old cookbooks by decade, I'm going to lay them out by state. And then with a name like "Baking Across America," we had to shoot them in said locations.

3:08 So yeah, we planned in. We set out culture capitals. So we knew we were going to the Southwest. You think what's down there? 1950s, Palm Springs. You go to the Midwest, the gem of the Midwest, Chicago. So yeah, we literally did shoot these recipes on location. And we also baked these recipes on location, which was rough. Normally you're in a studio, you get multiple takes, and you don't get that when you're on the dusty streets of Chicago carrying an atomic cake down the avenues. But it was fun, and there was a realness to it that I hope came across.

3:45 LILAH JONES: It's phenomenal. I mean, everybody is super excited about what you've created, and I think the nostalgia that goes around it is-- everybody's got a story, just like you mentioned, which is so cool that you can bring that to people. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Precisely. And it's not so much me, but it's the fact that you had mentioned nostalgia. The interesting thing about recipes is that, yes, it is more than just a set of instructions. You're actually recreating a lot of people's memories, insofar as I'm not having a gooey butter cake.

4:18 But now you're taking me back to 1972 in my grandmother's kitchen. So if you do it wrong, you're going to get in big trouble. LILAH JONES: Well, I will tell you, when I got the book and I was looking at it, preparing for this, it reminded me of my mom's recipes. And one of the things that she used to always make is something called grasshopper pie, which is-- B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Creme de menthe. LILAH JONES: Whatever even happened to creme de menthe? So question, how do you find these super old ingredients that, I mean, who even sells creme de menthe anymore?

4:48 B. DYLAN HOLLIS: I know. It's impossible. And when you do find it, now it's not dyed that awful blue. Blue? LILAH JONES: It was green. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: That awful green. I would hope it's not blue. But a lot of these you can still find, especially in a wonderful place like Chicago. If you go back farther, the 1800s, then you're dealing with difficulties. Then you're dealing with ammonium carbonate. Then you're dealing with some really hard to get recipes. A contemporary of mine, a friend of mine, Max Miller of "Tasting History," really goes way back.

5:24 Now that becomes more an issue of anthropology and piecing those things together. But no, you and I, we can find creme de menthe. It's a bit harder these days. LILAH JONES: So 1800s, going back to the 1800s for a recipe. Where do you find that? That can't be at an estate sale? B. DYLAN HOLLIS: No, no. And that's why I don't venture into that territory. LILAH JONES: I'm like, where are you finding this? B. DYLAN HOLLIS: That's a question for Max Miller, certainly. LILAH JONES: All right. Excellent. So give us an idea of where this started.

5:54 I know in your bio you talked about, oh, it was 2020. You were bored. You decided to film yourself making some cake or making a recipe. Tell us more about the birth of this. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: It was. You hit the nail on the head. It was boredom. Man, when old Miss Rona came around in 2020, we had a lot of-- LILAH JONES: Miss Rona. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: That was what I called her. But we had a lot of time on our hands. Now, I had always been a collector of old things. I had collected old books, old records. Vacuum tube radios I had a knack for.

6:24 And actually, the car on the front of this book is my daily driver. LILAH JONES: What? B. DYLAN HOLLIS: My first car. I named him Ernest after country musician Ernest Tubb. But yeah, that was my first car. I convinced my mother to get that to me. LILAH JONES: Very nice. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: And I owe everything to my mother, which is why I dedicated this book to her. But that's my, yeah, my first car, 1963. Needless to say, I always collected old things. And I had just started on short format videos and uploading these shorts.

6:52 And of course, when you're online, the things that garner the most attention are normally the wacky things, the crazy things. Call it clickbait, if you must. So I was going through these old collections and I was like, OK, there's got to be something that's going to jump out at people, something that's new, something that really sparks and piques the interest. And so I thumbed through a 1950. It was a Five Roses Flour cookbook, which was a Canadian flour brand. And I was flipping through the recipes and you'd see sponge cake and say, hmm.

7:25 You'd see muffins, you'd hmm. And you see pork cake and you say-- LILAH JONES: Oh. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Yeah, yeah. I said, there's no way. And sure as night follows day, it was a fruitcake recipe. Except it was aberrant. LILAH JONES: Oh, I've never even heard of aberrant. It doesn't sound good. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: There was a pound of ground pork in there. And I said, we've got to record this and show people that this actually exists. And I did. And that is what started it all. It was August of 2020. I uploaded this short format video and everyone went crazy.

8:00 The response was so heavy that I had to open a post office box, and folks started sending me old cookbooks. LILAH JONES: Oh, that's so cool. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: It was, until the post office called me and said, Mr. Hollis, you've got 300 pounds of cookbooks here. Please come and pick them up. That is how it started. And then it became an investigation. Now, you did mention earlier sort of an expert. I've got to tell you, I am not. Because in 2020 was the first time that I baked in earnest-- not in Ernest, but in earnest with an A.

8:33 And through my uploads and through my investigations, I learned how to bake. And my audience watched me learn. LILAH JONES: Oh, that's cool. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: I don't know. It created some incidents. Take, for example, there's a sour milk pie. LILAH JONES: Does not sound good. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: No. However, I thought it was literal. I thought you actually used milk that had gone bad. LILAH JONES: Oh. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Where I, through learning and through making these mistakes, I came to learn that sour milk was just an old school name for buttermilk.

9:05 LILAH JONES: Oh. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Now, no wonder I didn't like that pie. LILAH JONES: I don't know why, but now I'm thinking of my dad, who used to love mincemeat pies, which I always thought was like a meat pie. When you're telling that pork pound story, the pork cake, I'm like, oh, man, that reminds me. And he used to be like, oh, can't try this. So yeah, all these funny and interesting names. I have to know, do you have a favorite? Is there anything where you're like, oh yeah, this is my jam. This is the one I love.

9:32 B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Well, you have to be cognizant of where you are and to whom you're speaking. When you say-- you don't want to pick the incorrect favorite. LILAH JONES: You can be honest. We have no secrets. You can be honest with us. Which one is it? B. DYLAN HOLLIS: I tell you what, my favorite fruit are dates. LILAH JONES: Me too. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Are you serious? LILAH JONES: I love dates. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: No way. LILAH JONES: Oh my God, I totally do. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: This is phenomenal. LILAH JONES: I know. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: I mean, they're forgotten about.

9:58 LILAH JONES: I love dates. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: They say they're old school, they're fogey. But the things you can create with them. LILAH JONES: I know. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: And my favorite recipe that I've baked so far is actually in the book, if you don't mind my saying. It's a recipe for Mojave nuggets, which was the name I assigned to just date confections. You throw dates, you throw coconut, you throw a little bit of ground nuts, be it walnuts or almonds in there. And you process that up to a paste and you just roll it in some more coconut.

10:25 It's a candy, but it is all from the earth, and it's magnificent. LILAH JONES: Awesome. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: I love dates. LILAH JONES: I love dates. I make ice cream with it and beans. Beans and dates and bananas, and it makes it actually really good ice cream. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: It's phenomenal. LILAH JONES: Random thing that we have in common. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: I had no idea. This is incredible. LILAH JONES: Everybody's like, enough with the dates. I got you. So if you think about the two books that you have out and you think about the impact that you've had for people and you say, hey, this is helping them bring back memories.

10:58 I mean, how does it feel to have that level of impact? And did you have any idea it would be like this when you were just starting? B. DYLAN HOLLIS: I had no idea, truthfully. And not only did I learn how to bake when I was doing these things, but I learned how much recipes and food and nostalgia, the power that that had. Because I would get letters. It wasn't just cookbooks in my post office box, but it was like, thank you for bringing back this memory of me making this with my grandmother. This was her favorite thing.

11:31 And I was like, mm. Now, I'm cognizant of the fact that it isn't just me. It's a conduit. I didn't create these cookbooks from 1920s. If so, I look very good for being that old, if you don't mind my saying. But all that to say is that they've been there. They existed. Everything is there out in the open. I just happened to gather them all together and just show them. But no, I never expected the impact. And I still can't tell you why it resonates so much, because people love food, and food online is a huge sphere.

12:11 But you think of cutting edge. You think of these photographable, beautiful recipes or vegan recipes or recipes without this and that. Old, wacky, and wild, wonderful recipes don't exactly fit that. So I don't know if I'll ever find an answer. But no, I never expected the response. I never expected to have a cookbook. I have a music degree. But I suppose it's beneficial, because you don't make much in music. LILAH JONES: So you combined old recipes, nostalgia, and the all-American road trip, really. I mean, these are two huge things that almost everybody can identify.

12:58 And I just, I have to know, how did that mashup come together? Was it just that it was recipes from everywhere? But I mean, those are two pretty heavy things. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: I think it was the foreigner's perspective. I was born and raised on the island of Bermuda in this British colony. And I really wanted to come to the United States. I came here in 2014 for school to get that music degree. And from the outsider's perspective, Bermuda is 21 miles long and one mile wide. It's tiny. No matter where you are, you can see the ocean.

13:30 And it gets a bit claustrophobic. It really does. So I said, I want to go to where the skies are wide and you can pick any direction, within reason, depending on where you are, and you can get in your car and you can drive and you'll be in some place completely different, a completely different biome. And if you wanted to, you could say, I want to live there, I want to move there, and you just can. In the ocean, you'll get wet. We can't do that. So that foreigner's perspective, we're the ones who are interested in those super kitschy Americana things, big old cars, highways, and this adoration for the interstate system, which is really cool to me, and those bastions of 1950s kitsch.

14:19 Now, of course, it's rosy to us because we're looking at it retrospectively. And of course, there's issues back in that period. But it's that golden idea of a diner with lit up neon signs. And that's why we didn't go to LA. That's why we did go to Omaha, Nebraska. And we ended up going to Palm Springs and, of course, Chicago. And we shot at the Palmer House. LILAH JONES: Oh, really? B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Oh, yeah. LILAH JONES: That's perfect. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: So you're right. It was that huge, how do we capture this retrospective idea of America?

14:57 And I'm happy to report that it was a whole bunch of fun. LILAH JONES: That sounds phenomenal. What a great way to celebrate America's past and also just to bring back those memories and that connection. I always thought when I was growing up, and we would go on the road trips, and we had that, old Coleman. Some people are old enough, you had the old Coleman green-- what do you call those? Those thermoses. And that was the days when you would get off on the road stop, or what do you call the area where you get off on the side, and you would have a picnic on the side because you didn't go to all the restaurants.

15:30 And it just brings back all of those things. So thank you for creating something that brings that feeling back. Now, I'm curious to know. Social media, there's so much on there. Do you ever have any challenges or is there ever any moment where it's not so rosy and sweet and all about bringing back great memories? B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Oh yeah. I got in trouble very recently because I did a recipe for pralines. LILAH JONES: What? B. DYLAN HOLLIS: They're a confection of New Orleans, Louisiana. Now, the rest of the nation knows them as pralines.

16:09 However, I made the mistake of calling them pralines when I first did this video, I had never got such a hefty, swift response from the people of Louisiana and from the people of the South who said, Dylan, if you can't say it right, I'm not going to take anything you say seriously. Never mind the fact that I did do both pronunciations. I said "pray-line" and "prah-line." But "prah-line" was 20 seconds, in and that's too long. So yes, you do get in trouble there. Or if you do fudge up a recipe, then you're like, this is not an accurate representation.

16:48 Or recently, I did a recipe for, it was a tater tot casserole. LILAH JONES: Oh. Sounds easy on calories. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Oh, yeah. You're right. It's tater tots and cream of mushroom soup and just bargain beef. But of course, Minnesota and Wisconsin and these states called it a hot dish, so the fact that I said a tater tot casserole. But you know this. We know this. The online platform is you're getting up there and you're getting judged. And you know, for people who call it a hot dish, they're going to get mad at you if you call it a casserole.

17:26 But no, overwhelmingly, old recipes and desserts people seem to really just enjoy. And I've had a very good experience online doing this, which most people can't say, I feel like, because it's just not polarizing. And I feel everyone needs a bit more dessert these days. LILAH JONES: Who wouldn't want more sweetness? I love it. So you mentioned your mom and how much she's had an impact on you, and you dedicated the book to her. Tell us more about her influence in this whole experience. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Oh, I mean, I would be here for hours.

18:02 What am I without my mother? My mother is the kindest person because she's given me everything. I had the great fortune that my mother put me through college, even though I squeezed my four year degree into eight. LILAH JONES: It's OK. It happens. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: She said keep going. You can do it. No, she said, you go any farther, you're done, buddy. But she put me through that. She gave me all of these things that I took an interest in. I told you about the old radios and the books and the cars that I like. And she provided that to me.

18:36 So she nurtured something that was non-standard, but she could see that I was interested in. So it's not so much the case of listing the things that I really owe her, but just stating that I am because of her. LILAH JONES: Aw, that's phenomenal. I'm sure she's going to be happy to hear that when she sees this too. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Oh yes, my mama. LILAH JONES: So what's next? So you've got now the two books. Obviously you're promoting, the one that we're looking at here today. What's your vision for what you want to accomplish next?

19:06 Where else might this go for you? B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Well, it's difficult. When I did get a music degree and I was preparing to go home to be a music teacher, all of a sudden to be making cookbooks and to be baking. All that to say, I don't know, because things are changing so quickly, unlike these chapters of mine. So I can tell you that, oh, I would love to finish Baking Across America, this tour that I'm doing to celebrate the release of the book. I would love to just continue baking through old cookbooks. But then if I ever get the pleasure to be here again, I'll tell you that I'm now an auto mechanic in Helsinki or something.

19:48 But just nostalgia, I like the old things. I like nostalgic things, and bringing that into modernity in a way that really melds effortlessly. Because yeah, driving this old car, for example, if we take that as an analogy, it's an old car. It drives just like regular cars. But it's the enjoyment of being in this time capsule from '63. But yet you're not driving to go get a pack of cigarettes. You're driving to get yourself, I don't know, a smoothie. And that's something that wouldn't have been done in 1963. LILAH JONES: That's cool.

20:23 B. DYLAN HOLLIS: It is cool. It's hard to explain how I view the past through the lens of modernity. But I'm baking through it, I'm cooking through it, and I'm driving through it. LILAH JONES: Oh, man. Well, I don't think that we can have a better combination of things. And so let me ask you, as you think about you've created this, you're completely unattached to the outcome. I mean, your answer, just you're completely unattached to the outcome. You're like, you're going with the experience. How does one come to that?

20:54 Because so many times, people are like, I'm doing this so this can happen, or I'm doing this so I can have this next thing happen. And your answer just now was like, I'm doing this and I'm completely unattached to the outcome. So tell us more about how you land there. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: I think it was just how I was-- it's how I was raised. It's also a bit of island mentality. LILAH JONES: Oh, tell us about the island mentality. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Well, in Bermuda, there's island time. And it's too hot to be bothered with what's going to happen next.

21:22 You go slow. You look at the things that are in front of you and you notice them. And you say, that's cool, that's cool. I'm going to continue my little stroll. Remaining unbothered has always been important to me, because I don't think there's any sense in being bothered. For example, backstage, I was enjoying some wonderful water and I spilled it all into my lap. And I even came up on stage a little bit moistened, unfortunately. But you just hope that people think that I'm not that nervous. But no, it's experiential.

22:00 And it's witnessing the outcome. When I bake a wacky cake from the Great Depression, I just really want to see what it's like. And then you bake it and it is good. Or if it's bad, you throw it out. I mean, what else can you do? I think it's because I am interacting with the past. But no, it's a hard question. LILAH JONES: I know. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: To answer. LILAH JONES: I know. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: It's just a matter of disposition, I think. And again, island mentality. LILAH JONES: I love the island mentality. Makes me want to go there.

22:31 You mentioned something I forgot to ask about, and that's the storytelling part of it. So with each recipe, there's some level of story. How do you come up with that? Is it based on what people are sending you? Or what's the impetus or what helps you create that story that goes along with the recipe? B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Libraries. LILAH JONES: Libraries? OK, so it's research? B. DYLAN HOLLIS: I am so thankful to libraries, and specifically those libraries that upload newspaper archives or even visiting the old-- you know the microfiche?

23:03 LILAH JONES: Yeah, yeah, yeah. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Oh my goodness. Because you can go there and you can say, I want to learn what's being talked about, or letters to the editor or the food columns in 1967, Omaha, Nebraska. And you can go right there and you can see the stories. And that sort of research online helps to get a lot of these stories. I mean, that's how the stories for Bertha Palmer's brownie came about, because they were all written down in newspapers. But they sort of fizzle out because, I don't know, do you get a newspaper delivered?

23:39 I don't. LILAH JONES: I don't, no. But I used to have a paper route when I was younger. Used to throw those papers out there. So yeah, I can respect it. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: So I mean, that's the solid answer. And of course, the internet is of great use. Of course, Google is of great use. LILAH JONES: We'll help you search it, that's for sure. So now you mentioned the brownies. Are those the brownies you're going to make today? B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Oh, yeah. LILAH JONES: Tell the story about the brownies. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: All righty.

24:04 So this, though not the first recipe to print, this can be considered the first brownie. Otto Palmer of the Palmer House in this city named the hotel after Bertha. And Bertha was on this board preparing for the World's Fair in Chicago, 1893. And she wanted to impress this board. So she asked Mr. Joseph Sehl who was a pastry chef at the Palmer House. I want something special for my luncheon. I want something that's a little dessert, but it's itty bitty, and I want it to be stand out-ish, and I want it to impress my lady managers' board preparing for the Columbian Exposition in 1893.

24:49 And that's how it came about. And it's just a super different brownie than what we're used to these days. And I'm excited to show you. LILAH JONES: Oh, well, hey, I don't think you need to tell us twice. We are ready for some brownies. So why don't we go on over and get this started? B. DYLAN HOLLIS: All righty. Yes, I think my pants are dry now. So the brownie, I don't know, today, brownies are cakey. You talk about a fudgy brownie or you talk about a cakey brownie, and everyone likes the skin of a brownie or the edges of a brownie.

25:29 By a show of hands do we have anyone who likes the brownie edges only? Oh yeah, we like the edges. There are no edges on Bertha Palmer's brownie. So when it comes to the creation of this recipe, take calories out of your head. So the recipe begins by we've got this double boiler, a bain-marie if you're fancy. But it's just a heatproof bowl set atop a pot of simmering water. You don't want it boiling. But this is just to serve the purpose to melt your chocolate. And look at this. It's melted. And what you do is you don't count it, but you add in a rather obscene amount of sugar to your melted chocolate.

26:16 And it's going to be-- yeah. You just don't pay attention to that. I will state that this is the size of the brownie pan. So it's rather large. But you're going to whisk all of this together, and it's going to look kind of clumpy. But don't worry. Because if you weren't concerned already, you're going to be concerned when you realize what this is. So this is butter. It's two cups of butter. 450 grams of butter, to be precise, which call it what you will. It's too much. Now, it's nice and chilly in this room, so it's a little bit solid now.

27:04 But melted butter, and you add this all together. And of course, this is going to be warm and delicious. But you can see already that this is the amount of flour. We'll come to this next. But when you think of the proportions, it's incidental. It's a mere suggestion of stability to what is an unhinged recipe. So quite a lot of semi-sweet chocolate in here. Then you've got a whole bunch of sugar in there, a cup, maybe more. Then you've got two cups of butter. So you end up getting this huge, gloopy, I'm not going to call it a mess, because that's a disservice to dear Bertha.

27:44 But you whisk all of this together. And then you would turn off your burner once all of this is together. And then you would add in a whole bunch of eggs at a time. So this is six eggs. Or if you're like me and you know my videos, "eggies." Don't ask me why. My mispronouncing of ingredients has gained some sort of following. Although I will tell you, I started saying "simanim" as a joke, but now I can't say cinnamon correctly. So in my book and in haute cuisine and all of these things, you are supposed to beat in eggs one at a time.

28:29 You say, Dylan, why? And it's just to make sure that that matrix and all of your sort of gellification. Eggs have a very powerful ability to bind and get things together. Just one mere egg yolk can bind, think of mayo, for example. But when you lump it in all at once, you're just going to get separation and you're not going to have a smoothness, although some part of me just says it's to make things look fancier on the page. If you say one at a time, it's necessary. I think you can actually just do all of them at a time.

29:10 I don't recall the word that I'm looking for, because gellification isn't a word in the dictionary, if you ask me. No, not binding. What did you say? Emulsify. Yes. Thank you. Eggs are an emulsifier, a very powerful emulsifier. And that's how you're able to-- now this one won't take too much longer. There are six of them in there. And that's how all of that chocolate and all of that sugar creates this really wonderful-- oh, that's marvelous actually. It's nice and smooth. Now, you can say, Dylan, all of this is butter, eggs, and liquid.

29:58 But you only have a small amount of flour. You needn't worry, because we're going to move on. So there's flour in here. Like I said, a mere incidental amount. It's 1 and 1/3 cup, which when I was recipe testing, this was required. Which was a shame, because I actually don't like thirds. I don't trust thirds. This is just a bit of salt, a pinch of salt. And then this is your leavening, baking powder, or floof powder, as I call it. And in that goes. And just mix these together. One of the most important parts in baking is mixing all of your dry ingredients and all of your wet ingredients separately.

30:52 Of course, depending on the recipe that you're making. Because if you don't mix in the salt and your leavening agents to your flour, you're just going to get pockets of salt, or worse yet, pockets of leavening agents, and then you have a wonky cake or a wonky brownie. So once all of that is in, notice this is a one-pot deal. You do whisk in the flour. Typically, whisking in flour is not recommended because it creates a chewy baked good. That's why you all say fold in. Fold in this, because you don't want a chewy cake.

31:32 Agitation like this is what activates gluten, actually, and that's what causes a chewy and kind of tough cake. Now, we like that activation of gluten in things like breads, and that's why you knead them so much. But you don't knead a cake. But whisking here is quite fine, like I said, because you've got two cups of butter. This is not going to get chewy at all. Now, once you continue to make a mess of a kitchen, ideally you'd have a slightly bigger one. I'm going to start turning this. No, it's just a bit of a small pot.

32:11 But you get all of this together. The Palmer House, the interesting thing about the Palmer House is when I was shooting for "Baking Across America" and doing all of this, I was able to carry this baked good through the doors of the very institution that birthed it. Isn't that interesting? That I was consuming that and I was saying hello. It was like a hero had returned home.

32:43 Now, of course, when you think of stories, there's always a bit of legend to it. You never really know if it was Joseph Sehl, or some sources will tell you that this is Bertha Palmer's recipe. It's not. Bertha just said, hey, can you do this for me? But I'm glad that she did. And I'm glad that Joseph came up with this super fudgy. So look at the consistency of this. It's liquid, pure-- and I was going to say pure butter. It is pure butter. Now, once this is together, if you're baking this for someone who you really, really want to impress, you would ensure that you don't have too many streaks of flour in there.

33:28 But for our purposes, you're going to pour this in with some lovely lumps into a 13 by 9. And you've got some parchment there on the bottom. Oh, it's marvelous. It smells good. If you're doing something with two cups of butter and more than around 16 ounces of chocolate, and it doesn't smell good, you've done something wrong. Doo doo doo. So very liquidy. There's a lot going on. But this came about in the 19th century, so there has to be nuts. I am a firm believer that nuts belong in brownies.

34:21 You can consider this the first brownie. And Chicago's Palmer House brownie includes nuts. And the first brownie in print included nuts, which leads me to say that nuts do belong in there. These are walnuts. You don't want floor nuts. That was a bad joke. I'm so sorry. But you don't mix it in. You actually just sprinkle these atop evenly.

34:56 You say, Dylan, do I have to add the nuts? No. But then you can't call it a Palmer House brownie. And here you are. This is what would be put into the oven. Pretty simple. Very indulgent. But you would bake this around the neighborhood of 35 to 40 minutes, and then you would be worried, because those 35, 40 minutes would elapse and you would say, this does not look done. Worry not, because if you're fans of fudgy brownies, this is the fudgiest of them all. Through the pagic-- through the pagic? Through the magic of having two of them, those were fast 40 minutes, because we have baked our brownie.

35:45 This is what it would look like when you take it out of the oven. Now, what makes the Palmer House brownie super, super, super special is that because they were super, super extra in the 19th century, this has a glaze. And this is a glaze of gelatin, apricot preserves. Do Americans say apricot? Apricot. Oh good. And a bit of water. And you just set that on a pot to simmer. And then you would take a little brush. Oh, you're already starting to see the gellification. It's wibble wobbly. But no, then you would, with a dipping motion with your nice little brush, like you're painting your bedroom.

36:36 Fun fact. I'll tell you the fun fact after I explain what I'm doing. You're literally just brushing this on. That didn't require much explanation, did it? I painted my first childhood bedroom orange because my wonderful mother said, Dylan, what color would you like your bedroom? Orange was my favorite color. However, neon department of transportation like orange, hi viz orange, as a color for a bedroom is not particularly conducive to sleep. After about the fifth night of not sleeping, orange was no longer my favorite color.

37:17 The moral of this story is orange is good when it's in an apricot preserve, but not as a color in your bedroom. So you would just do a dabbing motion here so as to not unseat your nuts. Shush. And then you create this lovely glaze. You can actually just do a little bit of this too, because these are seated nuts. Doo doo doo. Brush that on. You say, Dylan, what is the purpose of this? You know, taste first and foremost. You've got a very dense, rich, fudgy brownie and a little hint of brightness at that first note with apricot.

38:09 It's really lovely. And also, it serves to lock in the fudginess of this brownie once this sets. These will never dry out, which was of great use to Bertha Palmer's luncheon. And also presentation was very important during this time. So having something that didn't just look like, oh, Bertha, that's a square of cake. You're not special. Having something that's rather glossy and rich and luxe, that makes the Palmer House brownie. So then ideally, you would wait a little bit for this to set. This is heavy. There's a lot of butter in here.

38:50 You've got this. And then with enough time, with enough refrigeration, this will completely set and you'll have a permanently glossy, lacquered brownie. Shall we cut it? Yeah. Look at this knife. This is a good knife. Jeez. Did someone say charcuterie? All right. Now, if you go to the Palmer House, they'll serve you a square of this. That is liable to incapacitate. So I actually like to cut them into fingers. [HUMMING] This requires a lot of concentration. It actually doesn't, because we've got a bit of parchment.

39:50 Oh, we're coming. Wasn't there a song that says the first cut is the hardest? It's actually the first cut is the deepest. That is a good one. My fingers are clean. Clean that up a little bit. This is what we did in "Baking Across America." Yeah, because we only had one chance. But look at that strata. That is a block of chocolate. And it is, in my opinion, not only the prototypical brownie, but one of the finest brownies around. So, gentles and ladymen, I present to you the Palmer House brownie.

40:43 SPEAKER: So Andy asks, hi, B. Dylan. I'm J. Andrew. So I share your confusion. At the DMV, doctor's offices, and wherever else, they use our real names. How did you become B. Dylan? Did you choose this fate, or did your parents give it to you? B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Probably like J. Andrew, it was because of my parents. You know, my parents gave me and my siblings-- I'm one of three brothers-- gave us first names, but grew up calling us by our middle names. So it wasn't until about sixth grade that I realized I even had a first name.

41:20 You're going through taking attendance to class and Mrs. Hislop was saying Benjamin Hollis. I was just there. Benjamin Hollis. And I actually did get in trouble, because I didn't answer to it, because I didn't know I had a first name. Anyway, yes, it was simply because of my parents. And my brother Tyler is the same way. He's Jonathan Tyler, he's JT. They call him Tyler. If you're called Benjamin or if you're called Jonathan, it's probably by the police. SPEAKER: That's not good. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: No. SPEAKER: So then do you go by-- if someone's going to call you one name, is it B. Dylan or Dylan?

41:58 B. DYLAN HOLLIS: That's the thing, isn't it? Because those with middle initials, it's almost automatic. You write it down. But they forget about that middle initial and they do just call you Dylan. But when the B is in front, then that causes some hiccups, some confusions. It's like did J. Edgar Hoover always go by J. Edgar Hoover? I don't know. Do you just call him Edgar, Jedgar? But no, I do just go by Dylan. SPEAKER: Just by Dylan. Awesome. I think we have a live question here. AUDIENCE: Hey, thanks for being here.

42:33 I really love watching your videos, and I actually watch them with my kids, and they love them too. And a lot of the saucier jokes go right over their head. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Good. AUDIENCE: I think one of the things that is great, or one of the things about food, celebrity personalities, a skill that a lot of the good ones have, is being able to communicate how tasty or not tasty something is in a really visceral way. And I think you do that really well. I wondered. You have a very instantaneous reaction. Is that something that occurs-- are you as demonstrative in other parts of your life when you like or don't like something?

43:11 Because it comes across instantly on your videos, and I wondered if that was just something that is just about you. When you like something, everybody knows instantly. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: You are right. And it's gotten me in a fair bit of trouble. Sometimes if someone does something that I think is funny and I shouldn't have a funny response, it's hard to keep that hidden. So yes, I've always been very expressive, sometimes to my own dismay. But yeah, with tasting these things, do I amp it up or do these types of things?

43:46 No, that's the one thing that I think has to be organic. Because you, your kids, your family, if it was put on or if it wasn't earnest, it would be obvious, very obvious. So yes, perhaps that's one of the powers that I have. It's a weird power. But being very expressive, especially when it comes to food, yeah, I am like that elsewhere. Thank you. SPEAKER: Is it like that at a restaurant too? Serve you a dish and it's not great? B. DYLAN HOLLIS: I have never been served something at a restaurant that was that dangerous that would have me doing that.

44:23 That would be-- and plus the atmosphere. I don't know. But if it was really good, then, yeah, I can scare waiters with how enthralled I am with a dish. SPEAKER: Wow. I'm sure they love you. You've been to the Palmer House, you were mentioning. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Oh, yeah. SPEAKER: You'll go over there and they'll get a good reaction again. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Oh, yeah, they know me there. They really do. I love it. SPEAKER: We have another question here on the Dory. Representation in media is powerful and validating. Will you please share how being a willing or not representative of the gay or broader LGBTQ community has impacted you, positively or not?

45:03 B. DYLAN HOLLIS: It has impacted me more than even I think I know. The country that I came from, Bermuda, is notoriously hostile towards those like me. We became one of the first countries to legalize same sex marriage and then take it away, which was rough. There was a few months where one was able to get married, but that was repealed. And I cannot be my true self back home. Now, coming to the US and coming to a state like Wyoming has its own difficult past, and I didn't feel like I could express myself there either.

45:50 But I found validation online. Here I was slipping in some of those jokes, and people found them funny, and they celebrated that. And they helped me to really find who I was a bit more. It has impacted me sort of more so on the level of my own self-growth than it has anything above that. But visibility and not being a judge, you can't judge how you're-- you can't judge how it is that you're perceived. You just need to be yourself out there. And that's how people find themselves validated, just seeing someone else doing it.

46:42 So to circle back, it's been very impactful and it's really helped me a lot, which I would hope is a different angle than to what he was asking. It's meant a lot. SPEAKER: It's one of the-- what I think is fewer success stories of that online. I feel like usually folks experience the opposite effect online. And so it's nice to hear that you found a community online through that and being able to express yourself more. Yeah. Are there any other questions from the audience here? AUDIENCE: Hey there, Dylan. Thank you for being here, by the way.

47:16 B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Thank you. AUDIENCE: I'm curious if you have any advice for people getting into content creation, trying to be a content creator. It feels like there's so many people already doing the thing you might be interested in. What do you think has helped you stand out, and what would your advice be to others? B. DYLAN HOLLIS: You're right. It's a difficult area, especially now, because every niche seems to have been filled. However, I really believe that recording yourself doing anything that you're genuinely interested in and can speak on, people seem to really like that, man.

47:55 So I mean, you start there first, in my mind. You're genuinely interested in something as strange as carpet. I'm looking at carpet right now. Say you're really, really into carpet. Then you just play around with that idea. You take yourself to, I don't know, four different airports and you rank airport carpets. And if you upload that and you're like, here in DIA, the occult airport in Denver, Colorado, they have a great carpet. It was installed in 2023. And now I'm wafting about the most ridiculous thing. All to say is that, yeah, you can create that niche.

48:38 Don't look at it just as finding a niche. Carve it out, so to speak. But importantly, just film yourself and put it out there. And even better, if it's something you're genuinely interested in. AUDIENCE: Thank you. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Thank you. SPEAKER: Well, Dylan, as we've arranged, it's so very nice having you today with us. And it was awesome watching you put that together live. And for those of you on the live stream, I hope you check out Dylan's book and make this Palmer House brownie for yourself. Thank you very much.

49:12 Thank you, everybody, for being here today. And we'll see you all next time. B. DYLAN HOLLIS: Thank you.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "B. Dylan Hollis | Baking Across America: A Vintage Recipe Road Trip | Talks at Google"?

B. Dylan Hollis (Guest).

What is discussed in "B. Dylan Hollis | Baking Across America: A Vintage Recipe Road Trip | Talks at Google"?

In order: 0:00 B. Dylan Hollis, Baking Across America, Chicago, Creme de menthe; 5:00 B. Dylan Hollis, Mac Miller, Chicago, Tasting History; 10:00 B. Dylan Hollis, Palmer House, Chicago, Mojave nuggets; 15:00 B. Dylan Hollis, Baking Across America; 20:00 B. Dylan Hollis, Bertha Palmer, Palmer House, Chicago; 25:00 B. Dylan Hollis, Bertha Palmer; 30:00 Palmer House, Baking Across America, Chicago, Bertha Palmer; 35:00 Palmer House, Bertha Palmer; 40:00 B. Dylan Hollis, Palmer House, Baking Across America; 45:00 B. Dylan Hollis, Palmer House.

What is mentioned in this Talks at Google episode?

10 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including B. Dylan Hollis, Baking Across America, Palmer House, Chicago, Bertha Palmer, Tasting History. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "B. Dylan Hollis | Baking Across America: A Vintage Recipe Road Trip | Talks at Google"?

The episode runs 50 min; the transcript is about 7,993 words in 78 timestamped sections.

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