Transcript

70 Minutes of 2025’s Most Intense Calls

From The Dr. John Delony Show · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 1 min · 10,635 words · 139 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "70 Minutes of 2025’s Most Intense Calls", an episode of The Dr. John Delony Show published December 31, 2025 (1 h 1 min, about 10,635 words). It mentions 7 people, works and ideas, including Better Help, Thorne, Delete Me, Nashville, Tennessee, Cove Security.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Nashville, Tennessee
  2. – 30:00: Better Help, Thorne
  3. – 50:00: Cove Security
  4. – 1:00:00: Delete Me, Henry Cloud

Notable quotes from "70 Minutes of 2025’s Most Intense Calls"

  • Let's go right down the street here in Nashville, Tennessee, and talk to Will.
    about Nashville, Tennessee · at
  • About therapy this holiday season, I want you to call my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp has over 30,000 therapists and they're one of the leading online therapy providers in…
    about Better Help · at
  • Most companies outsource production and skimp on testing. Not Thorne. They make every product with science, not spin. In their worldclass facility in South Carolina, 35% of Thorn's employees work in one place, quality control. And they.
    about Thorne · at
  • Own home. As a dad and as a husband, this matters to me deeply. And that's why I love Cove Security and why I think you should love them, too. You want your home to be a place…
    about Cove Security · at
  • And here's the thing, my buddy Henry Cloud, like the goat psychologist, right? who wrote the book Boundaries, he has this great story about a talking with a father about his son.
    about Henry Cloud · at
  • Sometimes without meaning to, we're giving away things more personal, our data. And that's why I recommend delete me. Listen, I like a good deal as much as the next guy. But I…
    about Delete Me · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

Companies & orgs

Places & events

Full transcript with timestamps

These are the calls that we picked that caused the most dust up in comment sections. Tell me about that.

People had some thoughts about these calls. So listeners, these are your fault.

We have been in an affair now for the last probably 8 months or so. It is New Year's Eve and if you're with us, I'm super glad you are here. Or if it's gone into the new year and you're just getting the download of this show, you're driving home from something. You are waking up wondering what couch you're sleeping. Wherever you happen to find yourself, I'm glad that you're here. Happy New Year. like all of us, 2025 was a bit on the chaotic side and I'm I don't know. I get accused of being pessimistically optimistic about everything like it's all coming down but it's going to be fine. And so I'm pessimistically optimistic that 2026 is going to be the year we transform and that we make things right on a grand scale. But I know this.

We probably can't all affect much of that stuff, but we can affect the things in our own hearts and our own heads and our own families and our own homes and our own marriages and our own kids and with our own friends. So, we're going to start there. I'm glad that you're with us. So, this show is a special um uh Kelly 2.0, I mean divided by two, Kelly 1.0. The you're you're the square root of Kelly 2.0. You're like the the horse covered buggy and she's a Tesla. It's okay.

Wow. What's like new year, new John? Come on. No, it's not New Year's yet. It's New Year's Eve. Tomorrow, man. New year, new me. Totally. Kindness.

Oh, I'm looking forward to tomorrow. I'm sure you are. Um, all right. So, this is the best of these are three shows, three calls.

We call them the greatest hits here. Greatest hits. Oh, yeah. I got greatest hits. That's awesome. Um, it's the greatest hits of 2025. These are the calls that we picked that caused the most dust up in comment sections. Tell me about that.

Well, normally our calls get I don't know a couple hundred maybe five or 600 comments. These calls got

thousands and thousands. Yeah. So like one 3500 5,500 and one of them got 8,500 comments. So these people had some thoughts about these calls. So listeners, these are your fault or you did this or however you want to put it. But

for whatever reason, these caused drama or strong feelings, which in return caused more strong feelings. And so, we're going to run them back. We put them all in one episode. This is 2025's greatest hits. Three calls guaranteed to get you and those in the car with you right now talking. Buckle up. Thanks for joining us on the best of 2025 episode and make good choices tomorrow. Let's go right down the street here in Nashville, Tennessee, and talk to Will. What's up, Will? How we doing, man?

Hey, John. How's it going? I'm doing all right, brother. What's up? Hey, just so I got a quick question for you here. I uh I kind of uh got myself in a little bit of a predicament and uh so uh I'll just get right into it. Um my wife and I, we've been married uh for about five years. And um in that time frame, I was able to reconnect with a friend of mine uh that I had made, a male friend of mine that I had made after high school um and whatnot. started to kind of hang out with uh with him and uh found out kind of through hanging out with him that his uh his wife kind of made a pass at me and we have been in an affair now for the last probably 8 months or so. Um, we've obviously talked about uh just about everything under the sun and I guess I'm trying to figure out um you know if I am I interested in this person um or is it just the thrill of having an affair and and doing something obviously that you

know you're not supposed to do. Um and so I'm trying to trying to figure out how to figure that out. Um because uh you know I I just want to a little bit of advice on try to how to progress forward with that. [sighs]

Oh man. Um so let me just walk it back and you can just Yeah. tell me up or down.

So you are sleeping with a great friend's wife, correct? Does your friend know?

He does not. Does your wife know? She does not. And so you're not calling me to ask like, "Oh god, I've blown up my life and my wife's life and I've blown up one of my close buddy's lives." That's not why you're calling. You're calling to ask, "Is this true love or not?" I'm calling to ask because uh you know in the time that I've chatted with this person you know we've obviously we've we've talked a lot more about the the just the the physical nature of of things and you know there's been times where we've both had the idea that you know our lives potentially could be better with that other person but obviously that's not something that I you want to I don't want to jump into something or I don't want to technically uh pursue something and then turns out it was just because of the thrill of an affair. I mean my my wife and I we've had our struggles and our issues pre the involvement of the affair or my friend

um almost called it off a few different times without that being a factor. Um, so I think it was just kind of came across at the timing that I was the most uh vulnerable to accept it. Um but yeah, so [sighs] so I guess the best thing I could tell you or the right thing I could tell you is you are so um what what it's like you're watching um The Lion King. You're watching like a you're watching like a Disney movie in the theater and you're watching these animals all talking to each other

and you're wondering what it would be like to talk to one of those animals, too.

Like, okay, you your your questions are so divorced from the reality with which you actually find yourself that it tells me that you've had to construct a world where this is okay. And there's a world that everything's going to be okay on the other end of this. Because if you didn't have that kind of psychological uh moat around what you're actually doing, you would implode because you become somebody that you could never have imagined you would be.

You're sleeping with that. You're sleeping with one of your closest friends wives. Period. You're actively for over a year having sex with somebody that's not your wife, putting her at physical danger, putting her at grave emotional danger. I mean, like, and what you're thinking about is, man, isn't this going to be wonderful? The other side of this thing, it's kind of like watching it's like it's like you're in Los Angeles right now watching your house burn down and wondering where you're going to put the new kitchen during the rebuild,

right? like you're not absorbing reality. And so, number one, no place in this conversation are we talking about how are these feelings real or not. Not until we've looked your wife in the eye and said, "I've blown our marriage up and I I don't want to be with you anymore." Not until you've looked your buddy in the eye and said, "I've been sleeping with your wife for a year and I'm sorry." And after the ash settles back to earth, after that conversation, those conversations, then you can ask yourself, okay, am are we are we in a relationship? Are we going to try to build this thing and and make it go and and move forward together? Which the percentages on that just the the scientifically the the percentages of those relationships being successful are very very very low,

right? Because then the old bumper sticker like it's true. Somewhere somebody else is is tired of her too. And you also, right? Like y'all get you're just living in a fantasy world.

We don't have to deal with reality. You just get to have these romantic oh my gosh conversations and you get me and passion and we get to have sex in a there's nothing anchored to it in reality like dishes and bills and hey, we're trying to build a life together and I want to do this but I want to do this. Y'all y'all have to y'all are skipping all of that. So until you anchor back into Earth, any conversations y'all have are just fantasy. They're just Disney movies. They're not real. Wh why why haven't you sat down and had that conversation with your wife yet?

Um so we've been obviously dealing, like I had previously stated, we had been dealing with um our own obviously struggles. Um

yeah, but you took you took struggle. Every marriage has I've had nightmarish struggles. you went you went the next step,

right? So, uh I haven't sat down and and talked with her uh about it because um I guess I'm kind of put it in my mind that if this marriage that I have with my wife were to potentially fail that I didn't want this reasoning of what's going on be

Bro, you have failed it. Like you're the failure. You get what I'm saying? Right.

And I'm sure she's got her own challenges. I'm not saying she's perfect but Right.

Like you're actively sleeping with your buddy's wife and you're like, "Well, if this thing doesn't work right, it's like you're the one that's not working right in it." You get what I'm saying?

Right. No, I'm I'm aware of that part. What I'm saying is that like obviously our marriage pre this had obviously its problems. were trying we were trying to you know work on those things and I obviously made the mistake initially and you know her and I we haven't engaged in anything in a while because obviously I'm taking a step back but it's also one of those that it's at the point where I feel like in order to build with my wife if that's what her and I choose to do then I need to obviously be upfront and honest with her about everything that has happened.

And if I do that then, bro, listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen listen

you're and I like I'm really close to compassionate for you right now I'm frustrated with you I'm angry with you but I'm also compassionate because I think you have created a delusion that you live in

and you use I wouldn't disagree with that you use these huge circular well you know and then we might Listen to me so carefully. You're having sex with another man's wife and you're getting going home and you're laying in your bed next to yours. You're having sex with your buddy's wife and then y'all go have dinner together as a forsome. That is where everything has to start. You can't be sleeping with somebody else's wife and trying to see if your marriage is going to make it. That's madness. Will madness. And you can't be hanging out with your buddy while you're banging his wife and be like, "Well, I'm trying to figure out if our feelings are right or wrong or what are you doing, man?"

You get what I'm saying? No, I get what you're saying. I think so. Like today, today needs to be the day. Today needs to be the day that you tell your wife, "We got to talk. I've been having an eight-month affair with our our mutual friends, and I've blown our marriage to smitherines. Yes, we had problems. Yes, there were holes in the boat, and I detonated it." And you, being a grown man, need to say, "I've already got me an apartment. I've already got me a friend's couch to crash on cuz I know I've blown your world up and I don't want you to have to move to."

And maybe she comes back and says, "Well, I should probably tell you I've been sleeping with somebody else, too." Maybe, right? Maybe. Who knows? Is she having an affair, too?

Uh, I would doubt it. Okay. Obviously, I don't know. But, and then you ask your friend, "I'm going to meet you in a diner here in Nashville, and we got to talk." Or you tell your the woman you're having an affair with, "Hey, you got 24 hours cuz I got to come clean with my buddy. I've become somebody that I never dreamed I would be and I have to stop.

I think that's that's [clears throat] where I've been struggling because it's like I have gotten far down the road obviously and I think in my mind I have this delusion that uh there is a different path out besides going back.

There's not a way to land the plane. There is no going back. But your fantasy about how this plane lands is false too. Both are true. So there's no going back. You blew it up. The boat's gone. You and your wife might choose to go to to swim to shore amid all the rubble and rebuild a new boat. That happens all the time. And I'll walk with you if that's what you'all want to do. You and this other person have a sliver, teeny tiny sliver of statistical probability that you've blown up your life. She's blown up hers and y'all choose to build a boat together on whatever shore y'all swim to maybe. But you'll always wonder if she's sleeping with somebody else like she did with you and vice versa.

Just very shaky ground to build a new thing. But it it happens. But there is no like then you have a hard conversation with your wife and she's like, "Well, I don't really want to work on this." And you're like, "That's cool. I already have a fourbedroom, three bath house with somebody else." and her your buddy her husband is like, "Ah, well, it didn't work out this time." That's just not how this ends, man.

Right. And so the quicker you can re-anchor to reality and from a place from the inside out because dude, you have you have created a verbal gymnastic studio that you just swirl around and ride the monkey bars in, but your feet never touch the ground. You've got to be able to look yourself in the mirror and say, "Dude, I blew my life up." Like, do you feel that?

Uh, I think obviously like I hear no I hear no remorse. No like Yeah. Yeah. Well,

no. I I think it's it's one of those that I'm trying to, you know, obviously I haven't let many people, if anybody know about this situation, you know, so obviously I've only ever had my opinions weigh on it. And so having, you know, an outside source weigh in on it is obviously beneficial, but it's also making me hear things that I haven't heard. Obviously things that were are accurate but I haven't heard because I'm not telling myself those.

Okay. You need to after this call everyone like everyone likes to think that obviously there's a a good way to land you know every plane in life obviously. So, you know, I think I have been caught up trying to figure out if it's or if it's possible to land it versus actually realizing that it's not.

What you're trying to do is to convince yourself that if this is actually love or this is actually viable, these feelings and the excitement of sleeping with somebody that's not your wife, which dude, I don't I don't I don't begrudge you that one bit. You probably feel alive every time you sneak away. Every time you almost get caught and you don't. It It does. It won't surprise me at all if you felt dead in your own skin for the last five, six, seven years, however long you've been with her. I get that. But you're trying to convince yourself that these feelings are somehow valid in the grand scheme of the cosmos and that it will justify destroying your wife's life and destroying the life of your body.

And so two things, love is not a feeling. It's a choice you make every single day. It's a decision. And a marriage is a choice that two people make every single day of their life man. And so whatever happens with this other person, you have to choose that every single day,

right? Except that choice is going to be anchored into styrofoam because you know, oh, she's capable of blowing this whole thing up at any time. And I am too. And she'll know that about you. That's why statistically speaking, it's very unlikely that it continues. But again, it's part of this psychological construct you're trying to build. Like here, like your plane is going down and you're trying to like figure out the right way to pull the cushions off of the the airplane seats so you land comfortably. It's not going to happen. So, what I'll tell you is at the end of this thing, there's a fire. You can do a control burn right now and try or you can just wait till the whole thing goes up in smoke, but it's going to catch fire. It's already on fire.

Yeah. I think I've just I spent too much time dancing around and trying to figuring out how to make the fire as small as possible when in reality the focus should be on that the fire is happening regardless. And I need you to internalize in your guts. Your house has already burned to the ground. Hers, too. They're gone. They're over. The marriage you had is over. The marriage she had is over. The little plate time y'all have together is over. Y'all have to decide what we're going to build next. But bro, you've got to come back and reanchor to ground, man.

You've blown your life up. And you've blown her life up. And she's blown her life up. I mean, I I I don't know a way that you're going to sleep all night. I don't know a way that you're going to have peace at all until you sit down and have a conversation with your wife, till you let her know you got 24 hours and I got to come clean with my buddy cuz I'm not going to be this guy anymore. And there's a high statistical probability that when the smoke clears, you've got nobody. You got no friend. You've got no girlfriend. You've got no wife. That's a high high probability.

And then you'll have to choose to do the next right thing amid that ash. But man, stop with the verbal gymnastics. Stop with the are these feelings real? What? Start with I've cheated on you and I blew our life up. I've been doing it for almost a year now. Through the holidays, through your birthdays. I I was seeing somebody else. I was sleeping with our friend. [sighs] Let's start there. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I want to talk about traditions. Traditions are things you do every week or every year. And they can be great or they can be a heavy obligation. The holiday season is a great time to reflect on holiday traditions, the valuable ones and the not so valuable ones, and even the painful ones. Therapy can give you space to think about the old traditions that may not be serving you anymore and consider how you might create new ones. And if you're thinking

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Thorn supplements are the best. Let's go out to Memphis, Tennessee, right down the road from where I am and talk to Lawrence. What up, Lawrence?

Hey, Dr. John. Glad Glad to be on. A little a little nervous, but uh Oh, you're good, brother. Thanks for calling in, man.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yes, glad to be on. Nervous nervous to be on. This is a little little different for me. So,

there you go. Well, I appreciate you having the courage to reach out, man. Yeah. Yeah. So,

it's just you and me and a couple million people. It's all good. Oh, yeah. Nobody Nobody listens, right?

Trust me. No, nobody does listen. Exactly. So, yeah. So, uh how do we how do we jump into this? And

cannonball. Cannonball is the best way. Cannonball. Yeah. So, um so a whole whole whopping seven months ago, um married this uh amazing, beautiful woman. Um, we started dating approximately 3 years ago and moved really fast. I mean, she was the the unicorn that that I that every guy dreams of dreams of running into. Um, she started off kind of as a as a client of mine through a through a hobby job that I was doing. Um and then we had we had both recently, you know, ended previous relationships and kind of found confidence in each other and quickly snowballed into a relationship and you know same hobbies, same interest, same you know everything and u we got married in May. I I had brought a lot of baggage into the relationship um financially um and entered entered this marriage not really standing on my two feet just trying trying to play catchup with life and bad decisions in the past. Um

and [clears throat] everything was great up until planning the marriage. um our relationship had kind of gotten a little rocky there for a little bit and I kind of alluded it to, you know, just the stress of of planning a planning a wedding and and planning a marriage. Um and you know, post post wedding, you know, we had that little honeymoon phase and things just never never really ironed themselves out. Um and [clears throat] so we started going to couples counseling um at [clears throat] the beginning of June and first first session was great. You know I I made it advent you know I'm all in um just personal personal values um upbringing you know you all in to work on your marriage um [clears throat] and lean into it. And so I was all in.

Our therapist gave us homework. We came back the following week and she dropped a bombshell um that she had gone back through a money tracking app that we had started doing together um to kind of manage finances, kind of build a budget out. Um, and she had found where I had basically paid for porn. Um, it was something that I didn't deny it when she brought it up. Um, I admitted to it. Um, it was something that I had I had struggled previously with um, years and years and years ago. Um, wouldn't necessarily say addicted to it, but but struggled with it. um I had stopped um and then kind of relapsed back into it um in the last year, year and a half. Um and about August, um I kind of had that realization of, you know, I'm I'm a married guy. I've got a wife. What am I what am I doing? And and and stopped cold turkey. Um, but she went through that money app and did some digging and investigating

on her own and found it. Um, I I tried to cover it up. Um, it was an app where you could change the name of the charges and things like that. Um, I had seen it on there. I tried to cover it up out of shame and guilt. Never admitted it to her out of shame and guilt. Um, I had told her that I had that that I had previously had a problem with porn. Um, and admitted that to her later in our relationship out of a fear of being vulnerable to her and being judged for it. Um, and I guess when she did her whole investigating and found it, it blew up to I can't be trusted. Um, she called me a cheater a couple times.

Um, which hurt which hurt the most cuz I would never while I understand that porn, you know, some people can look at it as cheating, I would never act on that. Um, I I would never physically step out of my marriage. Um,

yeah, but she doesn't know that. Yeah, she doesn't know that. Um, but the the the trust thing is the hardest part. Um, that she feels like she can't she can't trust me. and she she she basically said that she wanted that she needed some time to think and our therapist suggested the one week no contact. That was the hardest longest week of my life. Um I thought at the time and we reconvened and she walked into the therapy session late. I noticed she didn't have her wedding band on. Um, [clears throat] when I saw her walk in the door, my heart immediately sank cuz that was the first thing that I noticed that she wasn't wearing her wedding band and she sat down and said she wanted a divorce.

And my life has been basically crumbled since then. Um, so we're a month post that last therapy session. Um, our therapist suggested we each individually see therapist. Um, again, I I I dove all in. I've been meeting with my therapist weekly, um, here more recently, bi-weekly. Um, and I'm all I'm all in, you know, trying to do better for myself. um fix my [clears throat] problems, my vulnerability, my honesty problems, um beggingness problems, um and trying to figure out how I can, you know, earn my wife. I still refer to my wife, although she's she's filed for a divorce. Um

so she has filed paperwork. Yeah, she she's filed paperwork. She's gotten her lawyer. Um I got my lawyer just to cover, you know, protect myself. Um, and we're kind of letting the lawyers, you know, do do their thing, but I'm still

Okay. But so you got you have to exhale that this is over. Yeah. And you haven't yet, have you?

No, I'm still trying to I'm still trying to hold on. Still trying to fight because I do I do love her with everything that I've got and and willing to do anything to show her that I'm I'm all in. I know, but you got to hear her say she doesn't care.

Yeah, I know. It's hard to hear. Yeah, it is. So, how can I help you, man? I hate that you're going through all this.

I don't know. I I I understand. You know, you I've got to go through the selfhealing process first. Um I'm still going.

Well, I you do, but Um, really just move. I'm in a hole and I'm just trying to figure out, you know, how that light at the end of this at the end of the hole.

Yeah. Stop digging. Yeah. Stop digging. Okay. Here's why. I wrote this down. When you first started talking, you came into this marriage thinking you were less than her. sexually financially probably attractiveness. Like you came in thinking, "Oh my gosh, look at the fish I got on this line."

Yeah. And so everything, all of your actions are from a position of I love how you just ended it. I'm in a hole.

Yeah. And until you stop working, walking around giving your credit card to a to a porn company is in the whole behavior.

Yeah, that is less than that is I am desperately trying to feel alive in my own skin. So much so that I'll take one of the most um uh untrustworthy groups of people on the planet and give them my account number.

Yeah. You said something that I want to make sure I double click on that you you kind of held some stuff back from her because you were worried about her judging you. But I got a sense that you kind of feel right righteous about that. Like, yeah, see, when you found out, now you're judging me. [clears throat]

Not not really. And I dove I dove into that as I've always had issues with with just being vulnerable. Yeah.

Um to just previous life. I I lost my dad when I was in fifth grade. And you know, I kind of was forced to grow up and had to put on this persona of being 10 foot tall and bulletproof for family and stuff like that. And I've always had a a problem of letting myself be vulnerable

to other people. Um, and I didn't realize how much that affected me until I dove in with my my personal therapist. Um,

so what? So it it was a scared I was I was scared of being and I I don't blame her for the way that she acted. Um,

but hold on hold on the it's very very rare. Um I I I'm not sitting in day in and day out in marriage therapy offices. Okay. So, and in law law offices, but in my world, it is very very rare for somebody to find an old incidence of paying for or or pornography, search history, found an old expense. What was this? Cuz that story is not super ringing true with me. Either that or she wanted out of this thing so bad and she found a path.

Yeah. And and and that's what I'm thinking that this was kind of a a death of a thousand cuts. And that was the

Yeah. But you only you were only together seven months. There's not even time to have a thousand cuts unless you're screaming at her and hitting her and swearing and just being a allaround scumbag right?

Yeah. No. And it was actually kind of kind of the opposite direction. So So what was what did she find

that that's what that's what she told me, you know, and there was really nothing else. I mean, I I had I had tried to start I tried to start a business right there when we got married. Um, which took a lot of my time, which probably wasn't the smartest smartest move on my part. Um,

that's that that's all fine and good. There's some there's something else here brother.

And I I I don't know. Um, was it pornog was it like pornography or was it like webcam girl? Like what was it interactive? No, it it wasn't interactive. It was only fans, but it was I was strictly paying paying for videos. There was no interaction there or anything like that. I was just paying paying for videos and and subscriptions. And you know, she she she basically said that, you know, I lied lied about it. Um I relapsed. I'm I'm cheating [clears throat] on her. Um,

well, and you say you don't have an addiction problem, but you continue to use addiction language.

Yeah. And I was never clinically diagnosed as addicted, but I guess I guess I am.

I don't I mean, I don't think you are just from what you're talking about, but I don't work with you day in day out, so I don't know. But um I I yeah I I really don't know how I can help other than the faster you exhale into I mean she's it's one thing if she says I want a divorce takes her ring off and then doesn't do anything for a month or two.

Yeah. Then you for in my world that's the So you're telling me there's a chance?

Yeah. This is this is filing. Here's a paperwork. the lawyers have a date and we're moving down the road. That's when like here's the deal, man. You can't go to all this therapy and do all this stuff to try to win her back. You got to go to the therapy and stuff because there's something not right. And it might be that she's not right. And I'm not saying she can do whatever she wants. She can divorce you for whatever reason. And she feels this is infidelity. It's infidelity. I'm out. Okay. But, um, either this is just I don't know. I'd have to I'd have to talk to both of you longer, I think, to to get a better beat on this thing. But what I can tell you is the faster you exhale and grieve this thing, it's heartbreaking.

You did some stuff. You weren't honest about it. It doesn't matter what anybody else's opinion on it is. She says, "That's a violation. That's infidelity. I'm out. I can't trust you sexually. I can't trust you financially. You hide things. You go change labels. We went to marriage counseling in June and it's August when I found this out. And so, we've been through two or three months of counseling and you didn't tell me. I'm out. I'm out. People can judge her all day long, but she's got to be right to walk. It's you that's got to exhale and go, "Okay, this is happening. What's going to be different next time?" And by the way, she's not a unicorn, dude. When you put that kind of pressure on somebody that somehow you've found this mystical being that people tell you doesn't exist, you find somebody and you choose to love them and you keep showing up and you keep showing up and you keep showing up.

Um, [clears throat] so yeah, the best thing I can tell, man, is keep seeing a counselor, but also put yourself in a position where you can begin to act differently in a way that you learn to trust you. Because right now you're entering into all these relationships, the counselor, the marriage, the everything as from a from in a hole. Stop digging and just stand up. The hole is not as deep as you think it is. Stand up. And this one may have cost you everything and have to take down on the chin. That's another big loss for you.

Press your dad and your marriage. That's tough tough tough tough tough tough. There is healing on the other side, man. But you got to own the reality of where you find yourself. Thanks for the call, man. Best of luck to you. Holler back if I can help in any way, man. If you've got some directed questions I can help with, I'd be happy to walk with you. We'll be right back. Hey, I want to talk about my friends at Cove. You cannot control the world outside your front door. You just can't. The news, the noise, the traffic.

There's a lot out in the world that we simply can't control. And so I'm always looking for things that I can control that will make a difference inside my own home. As a dad and as a husband, this matters to me deeply. And that's why I love Cove Security and why I think you should love them, too. You want your home to be a place where your family can rest, laugh, and heal, and even be a safe place when you're not at home. Cove gives you professionalgrade home security for less than a dollar a day. And it can actually help you breathe a little easier when you're at home and when you're gone. With Cove, you get 247 monitoring for police, fire, and medical emergencies. So even when your life gets chaotic, your home doesn't have to be.

It's simple. Cove's DIY setup takes about 30 minutes. You customize your system with a quick online quiz so you get exactly what your home needs and nothing you don't. And with the Cove app, you can check in anytime, anywhere, and look at what's going on in your home. Listen, you can't control everything, but you can create a home that feels safe, calm, and protected. Go to cosmsmart.com and use my code deloney and save up to 80% off your first purchase. That's cove ov coesmart.com. Code Deloney. All right, we are back. Let's go to Cleveland, Ohio, and talk to Devin. Hey Devin, what's up man?

Hey John, thanks for taking my call. You got it. So we talked back in September. Um, refresh us.

What was going on in your life back in September? All right. So back then, uh, my question was, "Hey, my wife gave me an ultimatum. I have a third baby or possibly she was walking." Um, I called in to get a couple of tools from you. Uh, I used a couple of those, but now I'm coming back to the well to see if they have any more knowledge for me as I continue to navigate through this.

So, so did were my recommendations not great? It's okay if they weren't. Well, no, you're you're you're fantastic, but I I I find myself in kind of another odd predicament with her, but um I'll unpack however you think would be most

like Tell me about today's call. What's going on? So, uh, the the main point was we got to a point in in that discussion, um, over the third baby, which is really a proxy battle for me, kind of capitulating anything she wants and her going nuclear, so to speak, if she didn't get what she wants. We got to the end of that and it came to that sort of lights up conversation that we had and I said, listen, whenever we got here, um, you know, the important thing is that I think, um, we we try to build something new. So, so I kind of established I wanted to build something new. really wanted to put away all of the insecurities, all the issues we had, kind of put those down and just start something new. And she never really said if she was in or out. Um, she was very upset in that moment, obviously. But then a couple days went by where she was sad. And then since then, she's been normalish, but not affectionate. So,

it's almost like she's in, but she doesn't want to say she's in cuz she's still kind of punishing me because she'll never forgive me. And I don't know how to do I re-engage it and say, "Hey, you know, three months ago, we had this weird conversation about whether you're going to leave or not." You never really said if you're leaving. So, it's kind of walking on this anxious eggshells all the time. Like, are you just going to leave or what's going on?

So, what has stopped you from sitting down and having like I wouldn't have been able to sleep for 3 months with a looming

potential like separation. Like, what has kept you from sitting down over dinner and being like, "Hey, are you mentioned you were leaving? Are we all in? Are you in? So, honestly, the reason why I haven't brought it up to her again isn't because I'm afraid she said she's going to leave. I I don't actually think she's going to leave and she's not going to say that. But I think the problem is based on how our relationship goes. She's never going to ever say she's all in because she has to have that like over my head because she's been using that for several years. Like, I could leave if you don't do XYZ. So, I feel like if I bring up the conversation like, "Hey, let's resurrect this terrible conversation from a few months ago." She'll just be like, "Oh, I mean, obviously I'm in, but like, you know, I don't know. Maybe a year from now I'll be unhappy." So, like, she'll never give me any resolution to it. That's why I

don't bring it up because it's like, "All right, I mean, maybe the other part of that, and just to finish this point, is I said this to her, if we go forward and we're not having another baby, I understand it's going to change the family picture that you had in your mind, but there'll be a season of grieving in your life, which I'll be I'm all in to help you with and walk with you through that." So, I don't know if this is like, okay, she's kind of getting to acceptance her own way and she's in her grieving process, but how long do I let that go before I go, hey, you know, you can't we can't live in an an affectionateless relationship forever cuz we're normal dayto-day, but there's just no affection on her part. It's just like no, done. There's there's she's kind of checked out in that way. So, it's just odd. I man it pains me to say what I'm about to say because it kind of violates one of my

core tenants. Is that okay? Get after it. Your wife is incredibly immature. Oh yeah.

And I I I've got a close close buddy that was um telling me about this amazing therapist he has. And he said, "What's so great is my therapist kind of his his wife interpreter." And I was like, "What does that mean?" It's like, "Well, my wife will say things and the therapist will be like, "Well, here's what she actually means and it's so great." And I said, "No, your therapist sucks because you don't you're not supposed to have an interpreter.

You're supposed to learn to be mature and just say the thing." Yeah. Right. And like be an adult.

And if somebody is always threatening to leave you, they have left. Yeah. They're out. and they aren't in. And so you can't build anything. All you can do is is be drugged behind whatever truck she's driving down the road.

Yeah. And so I guess what I would tell you is this isn't [sighs] she's not being a person of fidelity in your marriage.

Yeah. Right. In this way, correct? Yes. She's not Maybe she's not sleeping with somebody. But this is the This is the same thing. You're like, "Yeah, she's not sleeping with anybody." Like like here's the thing. It it's similar to guys who um spend every waking moment that they're not at work on the golf course.

Yeah. And their wife is getting just just scraps. Yeah. And then when you call them on it, they're like, "What? What? Are you kidding me? For real? I do all this and it it's that that's not being a person. That's cheating. You're just cheating with the golf course,

right? What's happening to you is the same thing. It's just, hey, are are you said you're going to leave me

and these two kids, are you going to leave? Oh, no. I don't know, man. Maybe. Like, like that's that's infidelity. That's cheating. That is not giving you her full self. And so you're eating like you're just feeding on scraps. You're starving to death.

Yeah. I I think that's completely true. Um and to kind of give you a little more depth on that, she she's created this devious way in which she doesn't say like I I don't know if she actually said directly, I believe, but she she very strongly like intimates that and she knows that that's my greatest fear. But then like when I've brought this up to her throughout the process, the other kind of smaller fights before this nuclear one, I I directly articulate like I'm afraid that you will leave if I don't give you what you want. And she would kind of almost do this, not to overuse the word, but gafflight like why would I leave? I'm not going to leave.

And then we get to like the next fight and she's like, you know, I I really can't do this anymore. I don't know what to do. And so it's like she never says like I will leave, but she she she lays that thought in my head. And the reason why she'll never say, "Hey, hey, listen, Deon. I'm I'm all in." Is because if she does that, she's putting down that that weapon she's always had, which she knows is my greatest insecurity. Like, I'm afraid you're going to leave.

So, what if you what what if you take all the bullets out of that weapon? How so?

Um, like we're recording this. We're coming up on the new year. Yes. What if you let her know today I've got child care and we're going to take a Saturday and part of a Sunday and you and I are going to map out 2025 together. And here's how we're going to map it out. We're going to map it out in four ways. We're going to spend the morning talking about how we see each other. We're going to talk about things that we see the other person doing that are great. Then we're going to go to another restaurant. We're going to go get coffee. We're going to get morning brunch or whatever. And we're going to talk about known.

What are the things going on in your guts? Are you happy in this home that we're creating together? How can we love each other better? And both people get to speak. Then we're going to go to lunch. And then either during lunch or after lunch, we're going to talk about celebration. Who do we want to be this year? What's that going to look like? Identity. How are we going to celebrate each other? How are we going to cheer each other on and become each other's biggest cheerleaders? And then the fourth one is nuts and bolts. How are we going to make this thing happen? What must what must go away so that this new year is becomes true.

Seeing known, celebrate, and challenge. Okay? And and if let's say you put that on paper, forget her little threats. If you think those threats are they're just they're toothless tigers. Then at some point you have to be the adult and say, "All right, whatever. I'm going to keep going

because y'all are in this weird dance where she loses power and so she pokes and you over like overcorrect. She's going to leave and you shut down for a month and she gets back on top and then

then you slowly start becoming a great husband again and you're back engaged with the kids, what and then she feels like she's losing it so she's like, "Well, I don't know."

Yeah. It's I I I feel like she's I think she looked into like I don't I don't think that she necessarily looked into like divorce or anything, but I think she's like envisioned that and she realized how hard it is. So now she's she's not planning actively leaving. But my my concern is that the next time you know 3 months from now and she's like hey let's do whatever and I go we can't do that then she's not getting what she wants. Not getting fed that then it's going to be another fight and then this will come up at some point. But to your point about if I may the the kind of like the retreat you laid out. I kind of did that in a sense. Not as well as you did obviously because you you do this for a living. But like during the per the past month of us being in this weird dance was our our wedding anniversary.

So I I kind of I got us like a room at a hotel with like a restaurant just to kind of like have almost like a a start over type retreat thing kind of with this with what you just kind of laid out in a framework in mind but not as well. And she first she declined. She's like we shouldn't go away together. It's not a good idea. And I said, "Why?" And she's like, "Well, cuz we have all these problems." And I was like, I just kind of walked. I was like, "Okay, whatever you want to do, but I don't have to cancel the reservation till, you know, X day." So then she waits until that day.

And she goes, "All right, we can do it. We can go. We have to talk about things." And I said, "Okay." And then we went and we did it. We didn't talk about things. I didn't bring it up to be fair, but I was kind of waiting like, "Where are you going with this?" So we just had like a decent evening, but I was like, "Why didn't we do this? What's what's going on? Like are you not want to talk? Are you over I keep trying to read tea leaves, which is stupid.

Go right. situation cuz here's the thing. If she's going to leave you, she's going to leave you.

I totally agree. I think she's already left you. She's just left you in your own house. She's left you physically. She's left you emotionally. She's left you spiritually. She's left you. She's moved out. She just did the math. She probably sat with somebody and they did the math and she's like, "Oh, I'd have to go to work." Well, well, and so if I could just expand on that for a second, um not to not that I'm great about anything, but like I do roughly nine out of 10en things in the house. So like meals, cleaning, cooking, I do so much. So I I feel like she probably thought, h my life would be much more difficult. Might as well just live here and have him do everything.

But I feel like if I stand up and like pull back a little bit in what I'm doing because I'm also overwhelmed with the amount of stuff I'm doing cuz it's completely unbalanced, then she's I always feel like she's going to leave. So, I just everything is kind of through the lens of like if I stop doing this one nice thing I do, is she going to leave? And I have to get like regain my personal agency and take power back in my life, but I'm just I don't know. I'm so like terrified now after years of dealing with this and this very acute like recent situation. I just don't even know how to start except saying like, "Hey, one of that conversation from a few months ago, what are you doing? Are you leaving?" And then I feel like it won't be resolved because she'll just kind of be like, "Well, well, you know, maybe I will. I don't know." So, So, let's let's flip the whole thing around then.

Okay, we're going to go on a retreat and we're going to talk about 2025. And that's when you lay out in 2025, I am you, Devon. I'm committed to being well, to being the best father and the best husband I can be. And that means I have to be honest about my time. I have to be honest about my work. I have to be honest about my commitment here at home domestically, like with with chores and stuff like that. and how I am seeking to be the best person I can be, exercise, sleep, and all that. So, beginning January 3rd or January 1st or whenever, I'm no longer doing X, Y, and Z.

I'm going to do dinner. I'm going to do my laundry. I'll do the kids laundry. I will make the bed in the morning. I'll mow the lawn. I'm going to ask you to be responsible for after dinner cleanup. We can figure out who's going to go to the grocery store. We can figure that out. Or or you start nailing these things down. But if you do it as punishment, then you become her.

Correct. That's my problem. Yeah. We're not doing it for punishment. We're doing it so you can be whole finally. You've never been whole in this relationship. And so you have to hear me say you're worth being whole. And here's the thing, my buddy Henry Cloud, uh like the like the goat psychologist, right? Um who wrote the book Boundaries, he has this great story about a um talking with a a father about his son who's just living this crazy life. And he says, "I don't know what to do. I give my son everything. I give my son everything. I give my son everything."

And Dr. Cloud has this great response. He said, "It sounds like your son needs to get some problems."

Yeah. And so your wife doesn't have to do anything. Mhm. And you continue to cash out every bit of agency you have because this isn't a whole relationship. She's not a person of fidelity. And so what you have to say is, "Okay, this year I'm not going to punish you. I'm not going to I'm not making dinner anymore. No more laundry." No. When I look at my calendar, I will exercise for an hour a day. I will take my kids to breakfast and then get them to school twice a week. I will work and I'm also going to get that graduate degree I've been I've been thinking about. And so here's what that's going to cost and here's what time that's going to take.

So here's going to be the jobs left undone that as the co-creator of this household um is going to be your responsibility. Are you in? And by the way, now that we're here, what are the things you need to be whole this year? And how can I help fill like scaffold those things? How can I walk alongside you? How can I love you better? And what you're going to get is somebody feeling in real time. This isn't just a power play anymore. This isn't just sitting on the couch lobbing grenades. I may I may not be here tomorrow. It's not that. This is like oh hours time commitment participation accountability the stuff marriage is made of.

And here's the thing, you got to hear me say this. She's already left you. And so your plans aren't working. Your attempts to to take hold and to get her to not leave, they're not working. She's already left. She just still lives at the house. And you pay for everything. The goal here is to say you deserve to be married to a man that is whole. Who can show up and protect and provide and do all these things and be totally connected to you. Here's what I'm going to need to do that. And I deserve to be married to somebody who's whole, who wants all in on this thing. What do you need? I'll do everything I can in my power to make that true.

My guess is that it's just going to like it's kind of like you have a a really dirty windshield and you're flying down the highway at 95 miles an hour and you're and you're afraid you're about to go off a cliff and you're scared if you clean off this windshield it's going to show you that you're going off a cliff. It might, but the reality is you don't know where you're going because the windshield's so dirty. So, we're going to get in a room and we're going to clear off the windshield. And maybe you're finding that you've already driven off the cliff and your car is just spinning its wheels as it's careening towards the ground. Or you might find out that there's hundreds of miles of empty road ahead of you that you can keep driving together.

But she has no incentive to change her life because she likes her life as it is. Because she does nothing. She just pulls you around on a leash and she's always got this atom bomb in her pocket which is well maybe I won't be here tomorrow. And for you it's all right. that that's not going to hold power over me anymore. I'm going to go do the next right thing so that I can be whole. And that's the only path you'll have towards hope, towards building something new is saying, "Here's the role I'm going to play in building. Here's the role I am asking you to build to to to take on in our building. Are you in?"

And dude, call me after this meeting. Call me after it because this is going to be a truthtelling, a clearing. And maybe there's some ground rules. No leaving, no grenade throwing, no bombs, no what? We're just going to lay this thing out here. I need both of us to be adults in this thing. It's been a tough tough year. And I've been chasing you forever. I'm going to stop chasing. We're going to anchor in. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back. All right. This time of year, we are giving away our time, our money, our sleep, and sometimes without meaning to, we're giving away things more personal, our data. And that's why I recommend delete me. Listen, I like a good deal as much as the next guy. But I want you to remember, and I got to remind myself, every email click, every newsletter I sign up for, I'm handing a piece of my personal life. You're handing a piece of your personal life to someone else. And

that information doesn't just stay with them. Shady data brokers grab it, bundle it, and sell it. Your name, your phone number, your address, all of that is floating out there in the digital wilderness, and people are gathering it up and selling it. That's how you end up with all these spam calls and weird texts that make you feel like someone's watching over your shoulder and absorbing your digital life. If you want to take back your privacy and your peace, you need Delete Me. Delete Me is like a digital cleaning crew. They find your information on these data broker sites and they get it removed and they keep it gone. Peace doesn't just come from turning off notifications. It comes from knowing that your data isn't for sale unless you say so. Right now, you can get 20% off your annual plan when you go to joindeleteme.com/deloney.

Go protect you and your family this year. That's join j o i n joindeleteme.com/deloney. All right, that was the greatest hits of 2025. And when I say greatest hits, the episodes that cause the most drama in the comment sections. And tomorrow is new year, new me. I hope it's new year, new you. Make some great goals. Identify who you want to be this year. And then backfill that with some easy lowhanging fruit. and some action steps you can take to become the person, the husband, the wife, the parent, the friend, the neighbor, the church member, whatever that you want to be this year. I love you guys and I can't wait for 2026 to hit. We'll see you soon.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "70 Minutes of 2025’s Most Intense Calls"?

In order: 0:00 Nashville, Tennessee; 20:00 Better Help, Thorne; 40:00 Cove Security; 50:00 Delete Me, Henry Cloud.

What is mentioned in this The Dr. John Delony Show episode?

7 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Better Help, Thorne, Delete Me, Nashville, Tennessee, Cove Security, Henry Cloud. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "70 Minutes of 2025’s Most Intense Calls"?

The episode runs 1 h 1 min; the transcript is about 10,635 words in 139 timestamped sections.

More from The Dr. John Delony Show

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 10, 2026.