My Husband Is a Serial Cheater and Nobody Knows

What this episode is about

A woman grapples with the challenge of concealing her husband’s repeated infidelities from her family, who admire him despite her struggles with trust and integrity in their relationship. Her past experiences with disapproval from her family weigh heavily on her decision to protect her husband's image, even as she questions the authenticity of her connections.

Key takeaways

• Covering for a partner's transgressions may protect family harmony, but it erodes your own self-worth.
• Approval from others can create a false sense of security; prioritizing your well-being should come first.
• Catching infidelity symptoms before marriage doesn't guarantee change—red flags can easily morph into excuses.
• Sometimes, it's not about telling your family; it's about reclaiming your narrative through self-advocacy.
• You're not alone in feeling trapped; seeking external support can illuminate the path to personal empowerment.

Who speaks in this episode?

• John Deloney (Host)

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Family, John Deloney, Marriage, Jasmine Sarah
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Hallow, Family, Marriage, Therapy
3. 20:00 – 30:00: Depression, Aurora James, Family, Hallow
4. 30:00 – 40:00: Marriage, communication, Depression, mental health
5. 40:00 – 50:00: Family, Marriage, communication, Buddy Holly
6. 50:00 – 1:00:00: BetterHelp, Better Help, Family, Therapy
7. 1:00:00 – 1:06:04: Marriage

Notable quotes from "My Husband Is a Serial Cheater and Nobody Knows"

• Will you commit to me? Will you call somebody today?

  about Therapy · at 16:45

• All right, you all know that I use and right now you can try the app for free for 3 months. That's 90 days of the number one Christian prayer and meditation app in the world at no cost.

  about Hallow · at 19:23

• All right, let's go out to Dallas, Texas, and talk to James. What up, James?

  about John Deloney · at 20:31

• Yeah, 100%. And there's, there's depression there. she's lost her identity.

  about Depression · at 22:17

• And it's these small daily bids as the Gotmans call it for I love you. I love you. I love you. Through action. Not I love you. I love you. And now here's what you need to go do.

  about communication · at 33:22

• We said in sickness and health till death goes part. So, we're going to keep going. We're going to keep going.

  about Marriage · at 35:40

• I would not be interested in spending time with people who hate my wife.

  about Family · at 52:34

• This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

  about BetterHelp · at 58:39

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• John Deloney — Person · Host · 3 mentions · first at 0:29
  He hosts the call-in show, guides each caller through relationship and mental health dilemmas, and gives actionable advice centered on safety, therapy, and connection.
• Aurora James — Person · Caller (segment 2) · 3 mentions · first at 20:31
  He calls from Dallas seeking tactics to help his wife who appears depressed and disengaged; his 'fixer' mindset becomes a key coaching point for Deloney.
  All right, let's go out to Dallas, Texas, and talk to James. What up, James?
• Jasmine Sarah — Person · Caller (segment 1) · 1 mention · first at 1:09
  She calls from St. Louis seeking guidance on whether to tell her family about her husband's repeated inappropriate messaging and her fear of losing family approval.
  How do I stop covering up my husband's transgressions? I've caught him sending inappropriate message to other women.
• Buddy Holly — Person · Caller (segment 3) · 2 mentions · first at 39:50
  She calls from Little Rock about repairing a long-running family rupture after sending immature texts about her brother's wife and struggling to accept ongoing estrangement.
  All right, Little Rock, Arkansas. Let's talk to Holly. What's up, Holly?
• Magic Alex — Person · Show staff (associate producer; referenced on-air) · 1 mention · first at 0:42
  Introduced in a humorous opening exchange, establishing production context and rapport before calls begin.
  And Alex, I accept. You're welcome to tell me that anytime. Kelly has never told me those things, but I can tell by the way you angrily stare at me. You think that's true?

Concepts & topics

• Family — Concept · Core topic · 15 mentions · first at 0:18
  Family approval, loyalty, and boundaries drive Sarah's secrecy, James's motivation to model for kids, and Holly's grief over estrangement from her brother.
• Marriage — Concept · Core topic · 8 mentions · first at 0:15
  All major calls revolve around marriage dynamics: Sarah's husband's boundary violations, James's covenant and reconnection, and Holly's brother prioritizing his spouse over origin family.
• Therapy — Concept · Core topic · 3 mentions · first at 16:45
  Deloney repeatedly urges callers to seek counseling: Sarah to find a therapist for support and safety; James to start individual counseling and invite his wife; ad reads promote online therapy.
• Depression — Concept · Core topic · 6 mentions · first at 22:19
  James frames his wife's withdrawal as depression; Deloney explains how a 'fixer' approach can worsen shame and emphasizes connection and proper therapy beyond medication check-ins.
• communication — Concept · Core topic · 3 mentions · first at 32:11
  Deloney focuses on how to communicate without shame or scorekeeping: Sarah finding safe confidants, James making daily 'bids,' and Holly shifting from blame to grief and consistent outreach.
• mental health — Concept · Core topic · 2 mentions · first at 26:46
  The episode frames relational crises through mental health lenses (depression, shame, counseling, psychiatric system limits) and emphasizes seeking professional support.
  Clearly not you're you're watching your wife dissolve in front of you. Clearly, that's not working and it's a problem with our current psychiatric system. I get it. And you…
• Consciousness — Concept · Minor/implicit topic (used colloquially) · 1 mention
  Appears only as a phrase about intentionally suppressing thoughts; not a substantive philosophical discussion in this episode.
  I'm worth laughter in my own house. I'm worth going on vacation and not having to consciously shove things out of my head just so I can get through the day.

Places & events

• St. Louis, Missouri — Place · Setting · 1 mention · first at 1:09
  Mentioned as the location of a caller named Sarah.
  Let's go to St. Louis, Missouri, and talk to Sarah. What's up, Sarah?
• Dallas, Texas — Place · Setting · 1 mention · first at 20:31
  Mentioned as the location of a caller named James.
  All right, let's go out to Dallas, Texas, and talk to James. What up, James?
• Little Rock, Arkansas — Place · Caller location (Holly) · 1 mention · first at 39:50
  Identifies where Holly is calling from, anchoring the third segment geographically.
  All right, Little Rock, Arkansas. Let's talk to Holly. What's up, Holly?

Sponsors

• Hallow — Product · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at 19:26
  Promoted as a Christian prayer and meditation app with a special offer for the audience.
• BetterHelp — Product · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at 58:39
  Promoted as an online therapy platform with a discount for the audience.
• Hallow — Company · Sponsor (advertised product) · 3 mentions · first at 19:31
  Deloney promotes Hallow as a Christian prayer and meditation app, tying it to being spiritually anchored and to Lent reflections.
  Else. Hallow helps me start my day grounded before the chaos comes. And this year, Lent starts early. Lent is a season of reflection and fasting for Christians, but honestly…
• Better Help — Company · Sponsor (advertised service) · 3 mentions · first at 58:39
  Promoted as an online therapy platform; the ad reinforces the episode's repeated recommendation to seek therapy for individuals and couples.
  Identify what's getting in the way and help remove any blockers. And for all of this, I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with the…
• Lent — Event · Referenced religious season (in sponsor message) · 1 mention · first at 19:54
  Used to contextualize Hallow's guided reflections and fasting as a time to 'hit pause' and reset with purpose.
  Else. Hallow helps me start my day grounded before the chaos comes. And this year, Lent starts early. Lent is a season of reflection and fasting for Christians, but honestly…

Full transcript with timestamps

0:05 How do I stop covering up my husband's transgressions? I've caught him sending inappropriate message to other women. They strongly disapproved of my first marriage and it really took a toll on my family's relationship and I finally like built that back up. But it

0:22 it's built on a lot. Ow. Hey, this is John. I'm glad you're with us. The associate producer, Alex, back there just told me I am tall and hot. And Alex, I accept. You're welcome to tell me that anytime. Kelly has never told me those things, but I can tell by the way you angrily stare at me. You think that's true? Not so much.

0:56 Whatever makes the work happen, go with it. That's what you said when you bought me drugs about a year into this. You're like,

1:06 if it worked, I need you to still be doing it. Let's go to St. Louis, Missouri, and talk to Sarah. What's up, Sarah?

1:14 Hi, John. Um, I'm so glad you took my call. I'm really excited to talk to you. Well, thank you for calling. What's going on? Um, so my question is, how do I stop covering up or hiding my husband's transgressions from my family?

1:30 That's a loaded question. Tell me more about it. Yeah. Um, so just a little backstory. Um, my husband and I have been together for 5 years and married for one. And in the five years that we've been together, I've caught him texting or sending inappropriate message to other women about three times. And each time that that happens, I feel the need to hide it from my family because they honestly think the world of him. And this is the first relationship that I've ever had that they approve of. Um, they strongly disapproved of my first marriage because of problems that my ex-husband had. and it really took a toll on my family's relationship um with me and I finally like built that back up. But

2:18 it's built on a line. Yeah. Yeah. It's not real. Yeah. Exactly. Why Why do Why do you care less about your own safety and integrity and more about the fake analysis of people who don't live in your home?

2:36 Um I don't know. I really don't. It's just always kind of been that way. I don't know how to put myself first, I guess.

2:44 Well, and Yeah. I mean, because the next question I would ask is why why why did you marry a guy? You knew this before you married him.

2:52 Yeah. It had happened one time before before we got married or engaged. Yeah. That you know about.

2:58 Yes. True. Very true. It would be strange if it happened once over four years and then suddenly twice now that you're married. Yeah.

3:05 I wonder if you're closer to him and y'all are more intertwining your lives and you're seeing it more

3:13 possibly that could be and I you know since it happened the first time I'm definitely on high alert for it so I I go looking for it more which probably isn't healthy either. Um, but I mean the thing is, and this is going to sound so contradictory, but he is a really great guy in all the aspects that make building a life together sound good. Like he's

3:43 trust in provides. He's Yeah. No. Yeah. I'll take somebody who makes less money but tells me the truth and is a ride or die seven days out of seven. Yeah,

3:58 I'll take somebody who is doesn't look like Brad Pitt, but who is loyal and will ride or die. I'll take somebody that I can get old and wrinkly with over somebody I always have to wonder if yes, they're direct deposits hitting and they're helping with the dishes, but they're also sending pics out to people and requesting topless photos of strangers all day, every day. I would make that trade.

4:30 Yeah. What what is it? I I I'm probably going to be able to answer my own question with this constant need for your parents to approve of of you trying to take care of yourself and keep you safe. But man, you you have a pretty small picture of yourself.

4:56 Yes. Or I've talked to you for like two minutes and I think I already have I feel more a sense of your value than you do.

5:09 Yeah, that's probably true. Did you grow up in that world? Um, yeah. Where there was just a a a steady a steady sword of Damocles hanging over your head at all times from mom and dad where they're going to approve of the next action you took and the next thought you had and the next dress you wore. Um, I think it was more being left out of their world. So, trying to

5:36 ah, get in it. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah. My mom had me when she was really young. And uh my dad, I don't know my biological dad, but my dad, my stepdad that stepped in, um he was also young and they did the best they could, but it was really rocky for a really long time. And so now that I feel like I have a good relationship built with them, I'm really scared to lose it.

6:08 So here's how you're going to know. that you sit down with your mom. Like those things are true and they happen and that's wired into your nervous system. And you have to do the next thing.

6:21 Yeah. And by the way, I'm not suggesting that anybody who catches their spouse cheating automatically has to call their family,

6:28 right? Yeah. And that's something else I was wondering like, do I even need to tell them?

6:33 I wouldn't. But I just feel so alone in this. Like I just Well, that's the question. And who who else can you talk to? Who else do you have? Do you have girlfriends? Do you have a counselor? Do you have a spiritual adviser? Do you have somebody that you can sit down with and say, "I'm experiencing some really awful stuff in my house."

6:51 Yeah. Do you have that? Um I So the one girlfriend that I thought I did have, um I started telling her about it and she is actually having an affair on her husband. Um, so that kind of shut that down and

7:11 do you think? Good God. Yeah, that was hard. Um, and then my other girlfriend, she's just in a season of life with little babies and she just doesn't she's just not in a season where she can give emotionally right now. And I understand that. Um I have been thinking quite frequently about trying to find a therapist um

7:36 today. Yeah. Today and in in a large metropolitan city where you live, it's not trying to find just get on the phone and call some people.

7:46 Yeah. And go to two or three sessions and if you have a connection there, even if it's uncomfortable, it will be uncomfortable for you. especially somebody who is always asking yourself, "Do you like me? Am I worth even being in this room with you?" It'll be uncomfortable for you, but keep going. And if it just feels like there's no connection here, I don't want to be in this room. I feel unsafe with this person, cool, go find another one. But that's that's the work to do is you have to find some folks. If that is your family, then great. But if your family's going to weaponize your safety and they're going to choose this other dude over you, then they don't want to be in relationship with you.

8:28 Yeah. And that's heartbreaking. Yeah. I doubt that's what would happen. It's just such a reflex now.

8:37 Okay. That I don't even give them the chance, I'd think. Okay. If you put if you go to them and you tell them all of this and you say, "Hey, I have some hard things to tell you, but I'm afraid I'm going to lose our relationship. Can I trust y'all with some really hard stuff cuz I got nowhere else to go?"

9:01 Mhm. If they said, "Oh my god, come inside. Sit down." Yes. and you said, "I found these things on my husband's phone and I'm wrestling with him. I don't know the next right move. It's the third time in 5 years this has happened. I didn't want to disappoint y'all. I don't want to disappoint myself anymore. There's some aspects of this relationship where he's he shows up and pretty great and this part is a nightmare. It's there's just a tension in my life." Um, the challenge if you do that is if y'all choose to reconcile and this guy just is does a 180 and is like

9:39 I'll never do this again. They can't get that out of their head. Right. Right. Right. Exactly.

9:43 It's there forever. And if they're good parents, they're going to side with you. Right.

9:48 Yeah. Yeah. And if they're good parents, then when you say, "Hey, all I've forgiven him. We're making this thing work. We're making a go of this thing. We've got some plans in place. Um, I need you to be on our side now. Then

10:02 great. Maybe they could do that. It doesn't sound like they've done that in the past for you.

10:06 No. Okay. So, everything you're tell you're telling me is that they're not a safe option for you or a wise option for you.

10:15 Yeah. Which is probably more scary because you've got nowhere else to turn, right? That's exactly it. Then if not for you, for me, for the people listening to the show, hear me say you're worth making a phone call to somebody, even if you have to pay them by the hour to sit down and talk with them and say, "I'm not okay. I don't know what to do next."

10:53 Thank you. And I'm curious, um, what makes this guy, absent the fact that he's cheating on you, what makes him so great in other areas? I'm I'm interested in this part of the story.

11:08 Um, well, when we got together after my first marriage, it was a couple years and we met. And I really didn't think that I would ever be with anybody again. Like I was very content to be by myself. And he was the first person that really took an interest for who I actually was and not how I made them feel. And we have built a life together. We we travel. We have fun. like I I have the best times with him when I can put those things out of my head. And we built a business together. I I wanted I had a dream of this business and he basically put his blood, sweat, and tears in it to make sure that it came true. And so it's just it's really hard to reconcile like why he would do these things. And it just it automatically makes me think that I'm not enough.

12:16 Well, of course, cuz through his actions, he's telling you you're not enough. Yeah. And I I mean, I listen to your show a lot and I've I've told him, you know, just recently, you know, behavior is a pattern and I can't accept patterns. I can accept a mistake that we that you make and we move on from it and it never happens again. But now this is clearly a pattern. And is this how it's going to be for the rest of our lives?

12:47 What was his answer? He he always says it's not going to happen again. Well, I know, but that's not true.

12:55 Yeah. His his answer to this is white knuckling and putting his head into work and not thinking about it.

13:13 Which means there's a 100% failure rate in that sort of approach, right? Until he decides to dig into why he is so uncomfortable in his own skin. Yeah, let me put it this way. You can't solve what's going on inside his chest for him,

13:34 right? But it does call up the same old demons of you being a four-year-old little girl wondering, "Where's dad?"

13:44 Yeah. What is it about me that my young mom and my young dad don't want to be around me?

13:52 Yeah. Those same alarm bells are going off as we have success in travel, success in business, we have a fun sex life, we have fun together, yet what is it about me that I'm not enough?

14:06 Right? And I need you to hear me say your bio dad left because something was going on with him, not you. And your mom and dad, your stepdad and your mom had demons when they were kids, and it wasn't about you. And this guy's struggling with stuff inside his own chest. It's I hate to say it's not about you. What is about you is your safety and well-being. And I'm going to be honest with you, I don't work with people that I don't trust.

14:35 Yeah. Yeah. And if people will cheat on their spouse, my god, they'll cheat on me,

14:43 right? They It's just They will. It's all Yeah, it's all stuff that I needed to hear. I know it in myself, but also it's really hard to just put it down and not look at it for a little bit.

15:16 Yeah, it burns when you grab it. Yeah. I hate that. Me, too. So hear me say you're worth somebody that's going to tell you the truth. And you're worth somebody not that's not going to find other people attractive, but isn't going to sexually engage with other people,

15:42 right? And you're worth somebody that you build a dream and a business with that you know I can count on that person. You're worth having friends. Just if if you get nothing out of this phone call, just hear me say you're worth so much.

16:10 Thank you. And untangling this is going to be hard and you might disappoint your parents. And if you do, good riddance, man. And if you've listened to the show for more than one episode, you know that I can't stand it when people cut off everybody in their life for no reason.

16:27 Yeah. But this isn't a matter of cutting off. They cut you off a long time ago if they're going to walk away from you in your time of need like this.

16:35 Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Will you commit to me? Will you call somebody today? Yes. and set up an appointment.

16:50 I got to get off this call. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much. Tonight, when you're by yourself, I want you to get out a piece of paper or a small journal, and I want you to start writing the phrase, "I am worth." And I want you to freewrite all the things that are true. I'm worth somebody that I trust. I'm worth parents who will be with me by my side when somebody else hurts me. I'm worth a business partner that I can count on all the time to be honest. I'm worth a spouse that sees another sexy person on the internet and doesn't feel the need to solicit nude photos from them.

17:48 I'm worth laughter in my own house. I'm worth going on vacation and not having to consciously shove things out of my head just so I can get through the day.

17:59 Yeah. And I want you to take that worth list into your counselor and say, "I know I'm worth more than the life I've created and I don't know how to get here." and let your counselor walk with you and you it won't be forever. But tell them that you want to develop a path.

18:20 Yeah. Okay. That sounds really nice. I know. It's a matter of choose your heart. You could keep doing the same thing you're doing and it's hard

18:28 Mhm. to always wonder who he's texting. Yeah. Why he's 30 minutes late? Why he's an hour late? Why he's two hours late? Where's that other $600? Oh, okay.

18:39 Mhm. That's hard, right? Yeah. And changing this will be hard. Yeah. Both paths are hard. Choose the one that's going to give you the most worth. I think I'm ready.

19:00 Okay. I'm proud of you, sister. Thank you for the call. Call me back anytime. Anytime we can I can help. call me. Even if I can't help, I'll just sit here. I'll sit here with you. Thank you so much. When we come back, a man asks how he can talk to his wife about her re-engaging with her life. All right, you all know that I use and right now you can try the app for free for 3 months. That's 90 days of the number one Christian prayer and meditation app in the world at no cost. And this offer is only for my audience.

19:36 Go to hallow.com/daloney and check it out. And listen, here's why I use it. My life's busy. Family and work and everything else that the world throws at me. And if I'm not anchored spiritually, I'm untethered everywhere else. Hallow helps me start my day grounded before the chaos comes. And this year, Lent starts early. Lent is a season of reflection and fasting for Christians, but honestly, anyone can benefit from hitting pause and resetting with purpose. Hallow walks with you through that process with daily reflections and guided prayers that bring clarity and peace. Hallow helps you breathe again. It just creates space to be present. So, if you're ready to quiet the noise and reconnect with what matters, check out Hallow. And remember, when you sign up at hallow.com/daloney, you get three months absolutely free.

20:26 That's hallow.com/deloney for 3 months for free. All right, let's go out to Dallas, Texas, and talk to James. What up, James?

20:36 Hey, how are you, Dr. John? I'm good, man. What's going on? Good. Well, hey, first off, I just wanted to say thanks for uh thanks for everything you do on your show, man. I think it's fantastic. I've learned a lot from it, and I hope everybody feels the same way.

20:48 Well, I appreciate it. There's some people in a Reddit thread that do not think that way, but

20:53 I appreciate you calling. Going to be haters, right? That's right. So, you know, I think this is something that um a lot of spouses kind of struggle with. And bottom line, like I kind of just feel like my wife is just let herself go just emotionally, mentally, physically, and you know, I want to do everything I possibly can to help her get back on track, but I just don't have the answers. I don't know where to start. And you know, if I try to talk to her, you know, I get this sense that um I mean, she'll just tell me flat out like, "Gosh, stop being on my case 24/7. You're always on my case."

21:26 And I just need some good tactics because as a guy, you know, I know we're not all built this way. But, you know, a lot of times when friends will ask me, "Hey, how are things going?" Like, "Oh, it's good. Everything's great." Um, we just don't open up a lot. So, you know, I don't know who to talk to. Um, and I just need some some pointers on things that I could do to just help her get back in the game.

21:51 Well, man, I I appreciate your call, dude. It took a lot of courage to call. Appreciate that. And

21:56 I'm not going to join the chorus of people who will say, "Who do you think you are?" And all guys are interested in blah blah. Cuz I hear this, this is seems to be, and tell me if I'm wrong, this is deeper than she's gained weight. This is deeper than we're not having sex anymore. This is deeper than that stuff. It's I've I'm watching the woman I love. of watching the the the light inside of her go out.

22:17 Yeah, 100%. And I mean, you know, there's, you know, there's depression there. Um, she's lost her identity. Yeah. I mean, those things of course, but

22:27 Well, those are big things. Tell me, tell me about it's like those, you know, there's those few things like depression and lost identity. So, is do you have kids? Well, how has she lost her identity?

22:37 We do have kids. Okay. Um, and you know, a lot of the conversations I have with her sometimes revolve around Uh, you know, I want I want us as a team to try to put the best examples forward for our kids. And, you know, it's challenging if sometimes I feel I'm doing a lot of the heavy lifting or

22:58 give me some examples. Okay. So, so we we live kind of in a traditional household. I mean, she's a, you know, ever since we met and started dating and got married, I mean, you know, we've been married for 20 years now, so I love her to death. Um, there's been this sense that, okay, hey, all I want to I would love to be a stay-at-home mom. I want to take care of the kids. I want to make dinner and all that stuff. And a lot of that stuff is falling off the, you know, falling off the wayside. So, I'm the one going shopping. I'm the one, you know, just everyday things. And I I don't mind doing any of it. That's that's not that's not why, you know, what I'm talking about. I'm of course I'm here to help, but I just want her to, you know, I'd like to see her just get up in the morning, have a plan, go somewhere, get ready, even if it's just being social with people. I think that's a big aspect

23:50 of her life that's kind of missing. Tell me about the depression. Has she been diagnosed with depression or she just been struggling?

23:56 She's taking some medication for it. I don't know exactly what she's taking. Okay. um she's you know she she speaks to somebody on a monthly basis but it's more for just like hey how's the medication going and you know of course she's going to say oh it's working great but I don't think she's got anybody that she talks to per se and I've even said like hey look like why don't you go talk to somebody cuz my you know the way I'm built and I don't know if you know I know this is not all guys of course but we tend to be fixers and hey you've got a problem I can fix the problem here's how you're going to fix Okay, see you tomorrow. That kind of thing. And I know it's not that easy.

24:34 Well, the challenge is when a fixer when somebody is who is struggling is married to a fixer,

24:42 right? Is it comes across as a minute-by-minute, daybyday confirmation that the things you feel about yourself are indeed true.

24:50 Okay? You are a failure. You're not enough. Or to use the fixing language, you are broken and here's what you need to do. Sure.

25:01 And that you're right, that's there's a traditionally male approach to, oh, I'm just going to go hit that guy and after that we'll be fine and then we'll buy each other beer and we'll move on with our day, right? Or well, let's just let's just not go to see our family anymore. That's easy. Or let's just never go to that church again cuz they're terrible. Let's go to this one. And there is a a fix it mentality. Um, and there is some health healthy aspects to that, but there's also some not healthy aspects to that. And um, if a fixer is constantly coming up with, well, you know what you need to be doing about this and doing about this and doing about this, somebody who is struggling with depression, someone who is trying to figure out after 20 years, who am I?

25:45 What is my role here? What's my purpose here? Um, it just confirms everything that that selfnarrative,

25:54 right? So, there there's a couple of things here that I would challenge you on. Okay. Um, I I'll I I think I've talked about this on the show in the past. I don't remember or not, but it was I think it was a couple years ago. Um, I had this revelation. Maybe it was last year or the year before that. I had this thing that just popped into my head. I take a retreat with my wife every year and before that I spent some time by myself every year just like what kind of guy were you this year? How did your business go? What kind of dad were you?

26:26 What kind of husband were you? Are you becoming the guy that you want to become through actions? Right? Are you taking the right actions to keep your promises to yourself? I so I have that reflection time every year. And for some reason this particular year it popped into my head. Um, how much money have you spent on like getting trained in mental health stuff? And the number I came up with was a couple hundred thousand bucks when you figure in the the PhD, when you figure in all the trainings, all the books, all the travel, all the conferences, all the, you know, the medical conferences and the mental health, all that stuff.

27:03 It was a lot of money I'd invested in time. Mhm. And I was thinking, man, good man, you're investing. Like, you're going all in on this deal, right? And then a voice that I've never heard before asked, "What are the two most important things in your life?" And I gave myself my stock answer, which is my wife, my family, and my faith. Right? That's important to me. And the next question was, "How much have you spent time and money on getting to know those things?" And if I'm honest, the answer was zero. Zero. I go to church and I I mean, I tithe and so may maybe that could be a cause, but not really. And so I did two things from from that conversation with myself.

27:52 Like, oh man, if I'm going to say that follow somebody's calendar and follow their their money and you're going to find out who they are, then I need to put my money where my mouth is. So, I hired a theology professor from a university here in town and said, "We're going to meet for coffee once a week, and I want to do faith 101. I want to know what I actually believe cuz I can deconstruct anybody's anything, and I can have conversations with everybody. I need to know what I actually believe. I have a young kid, two young kids who are staring across the table at me saying, "Daddy, who are we going to be?" And the second thing was, I need to get to know my wife again.

28:28 And here's what I asked her. She's an old college professor. I'm an old college professor. So I said, "Hey, will you make me a syllabus of you?" And she's like, "What are you talking about?" And I said, "I don't know the podcast you listen to. I don't know the books you read. I don't know the shows that you watch when I'm gone. I don't know what you're wrestling with. I I I just want to get to know you again." One month went by, two months went by, and then I remember being like, "Hey, I never got that syllabus from you." And she's like, "Yeah, I was hoping you'd forget." And I was like, "Why?" And can I tell you what she said? Mhm.

28:58 She said, "I'm afraid that you're going to see all this stuff and you're not going to like me anymore." And it was one of those like time stops in my house.

29:12 And so, yeah, you get what I'm saying? She's afraid of that. Yeah, I think she's, you know, I think she's afraid of that. I don't think she she didn't have positive relationships growing up. Um, mom and dad was a little tumultuous. um you know even relationships that he had you know during high school. And

29:31 I I know I know but listen let's bring it to the present. Sure. You know how I know she's going to think that? Because she already thinks you don't like her because she already thinks that you think she's not enough.

29:40 Right. And so the approach here is not hey you know what you could do you could get on this diet. You can start this workout program. You can go do this. You can go to this. You can join a gym. You can go to the Y. You can go get a job. Whatever. That is a series of things that for somebody who's struggling with depression, somebody who's struggling to get out of bed in the morning, hears as if you want me to like you, go do these 10 things,

30:04 right? And if you're a people pleaser and a performer, people will hop out of bed and go sing and dance. Or if they're not a people pleaser, if they're somebody who learned really young, I just need to get small and disappear in my own house. That's the safest move for me, man. Getting out of bed's real, real heavy. Yeah, because that's been an issue. You know, it's just uh and see there's a I'm sure a lot of people do this that that are in similar situations. I mean, they're they're you know, outside how people view them outside the home is different than how they view them, you know, like that person views themselves when they're when, you know, where they're within the four walls,

30:41 of course. So, you know, obviously everything seems hunky dory on the outside, but you know, you know, on the inside there's this internal battle. And you know, I know that you're big on, hey, write yourself a letter kind of thing, right? So, in an in an airport a couple weeks back, I wrote her a letter and I'm like, I I don't know if you called it like word vomit. I can't remember what it is, but you're like, just write. So, I was like, you know what? I'm just going to write her a letter. So, I wrote her a letter.

31:07 And it was, you know, it was it was probably about five or six pages and I'm like, "Hey, just letting you know that you're enough and you're loved and it's okay and we're in this together and we're going to do this and let me tell you some stuff that that's, you know, I want to be upfront with you with what I'm feeling and I'd like you to write me back on what you're feeling and you know, this was 6 weeks ago and you know that next morning I got a little um, you know, a little note that was like folded up piece of paper like you get in middle school when you're passing notes and says oh thank you so much for your letter and you know hey I'm going to write to you one too and I'm like that's awesome that's great okay maybe we're opening up here and you know I asked her hey I'm I still waiting on my letter and she goes oh my gosh I like I totally forgot about that so I'm like man I put a lot of work into that darn thing

31:58 okay okay so if you go right to scorekeeping then it's it's less about how do connect with you and it's more about look what I did.

32:10 Yeah. Okay. Scorekeeping is about fear. Gotcha. Right. It's about I now I'm doing the dishes. Now I'm going to the grocery store. Now I'm doing these things. And what are you doing? And that's never a recipe for intimacy and reconnection.

32:24 Gotcha. Okay. Intimacy and reconnection comes from, hey, I see you're in the dark. I got a candle here. I'm coming to you. Because if she was trapped in the neighbor's house, you'd kick the door in to go get her.

32:35 Right. And right now she's trapped inside her own self for sure. So go get her. And what do I mean by that? Find the book on her nightstand and go buy the exact copy and start reading it in bed next to her. If there's a show she's watching, then you start watching it with her. If there is a, hey, it would mean a huge deal to me. A way you could show me you love me today is will you go for a walk with me? I want to walk by myself. I like walking with you.

33:11 Right. It's you getting up in the morning and saying how can I love you today? I don't know. I don't know. All right. Well, I'm going to go make your cup of coffee and bring it to you.

33:20 Sure. And it's these small daily bids as the Gotmans call it for I love you. I love you. I love you. Through action through action. Not I love you. I love you. And now here's what you need to go do.

33:35 Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. Cuz that's to somebody who's struggling with some someone who's struggling with depression, that's all they're going to hear in a big neon sign is blah blah blah. You're not enough.

33:47 Do you think it would be healthy for her to to go speak to somebody that's, you know, like that can just listen to her?

33:55 One million% yes. just just doing a monthly med management check-in is clearly not you're you're watching your wife dissolve in front of you. Clearly, that's not working and it's a problem with our current psychiatric system. I get it. And you going and saying, you know what else you need to do? Go see a counselor. That's going to bury her, too.

34:14 Sure. You going and saying, "You know what? I've decided I'm going to go see a counselor cuz I want to be the best husband I can be for you. And I feel like I'm struggling to connect." What? Yeah, dude. I love you so much. I'm sick for how much I love you and I want to be the best husband as I can be.

34:31 Right. And you're going to go and then you're going to go. And you know what? That might bury her further, but it might turn on a light in in the room. A little one.

34:41 Yeah. Cuz then after the fourth or fifth, you could say, "Hey, would you come with me?"

34:46 Right. Right. Right. To my session. That was my next question. Like, should we go together? So something like that, you know, which I'm I'm not opposed to.

34:52 I would invite her to yours. Gotcha. Okay. And then possibly in that session, she could hear in front of a third party, how much do you love her?

35:03 Yeah, it's a good point. And the question here is not or the the answer here is not here's what you need to do. Here's what you need to do. Here's what you need to do. The answer is I miss my wife.

35:22 Yeah, totally. That makes sense. That's a good That's good. That's a good thought.

35:28 But if she had the flu, you'd bring her soup until she got better. Right. Right.

35:33 Okay. So, if she's struggling from depression, we're going to keep reaching and we're going to keep reaching. We're going to keep reaching because we made a covenant dude. We said in sickness and health till death goes part. So, we're going to keep going. We're going to keep going.

35:44 Yeah. And I mean, it's, you know, she's it's been cyclical. A couple years back, she was in great shape. You know, she actually

35:52 I know, brother, but listen. You got to stop. Stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop talking about her physical shape that's not the problem

36:01 sure okay stop talking about the things she used to do you have a person who's sick right in front of you

36:11 and if you like if you keep going back and dragging the past into right now saying look what used to be that's just a weight she can't carry right now you can't carry that weight right now All right.

36:23 It's a decision to resent the moment you're in. How old are your kids right now?

36:30 12 and 17. Okay. So, one, she's got a kid about to go, right? She has another kid about to explode, right,

36:40 already. And so, you'll have a brand new marriage. And there's something about saying not I want you to be like you used to be. I want it to be. I It's about saying, "Okay, we have a new marriage. I want to love you the best way that I can right now." And it might be one week. It might be one day. It might be one month. It might be six months of you showing up every day saying, "How can I love you today?" I don't know. Well, here's your favorite cup of coffee just like you like it. And here's yet another sticky note on the mirror. Here's an invitation for you to come with me on a walk. Here's an invitation to come to my counseling session. And if you start asking, "Well, what about me, dude? What about me?"

37:23 Then that's you keeping score with a person who's clearly struggling. And right now, y'all need one of you to step up and say, "I'm going to be allin. I'm going to come kick in that door." And in this way, it's not kicking in the door. It's gently approaching. And not talking about wait, not talking about you need to, not talking about you should have, not talking about you used to, but talking about right now, how can I love you right now? and I'm going keep showing up. But ask her for ask her for a couple of books. Ask her for a couple of movies.

38:02 Enter into her world for a short season. And maybe none of it works. Maybe it doesn't work at all. But maybe it does. And what you have been doing isn't working. Period. At the end of that sentence. Let's go rescue your wife. Ma'am, make a call today to a counselor and you start going. Not so you can fix her, but so that you can learn to love this new version of the woman you married. You're a move, brother. Appreciate the call, dude. We come back, a woman asks how to fix things with her brother after really making him mad.

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39:35 This is the best deal you're going to find anywhere. Go to helix h l iix helixleep.com/deloney today. That's helixleep.com/deloney with Helix. Better sleep starts right now. All right, Little Rock, Arkansas. Let's talk to Holly. What's up, Holly?

39:55 Hey, how are you? I'm good. What do you say? Well, um I just feel very lucky that you're taking my call today. So, I'm really looking forward to your advice on this. Um, as you said before your break, um, I did, um, do something that's kind of will definitely upset our family. It's really more my sister-in-law than my brother, although it's definitely affecting everyone.

40:18 What'd you do? So, I sent um some text messages. This was like seven years ago. Um, I sent some text messages that although not very

40:32 What were they? mature or they say um basically when my brother um married his you know now wife I think they've been together I don't remember seven or eight years um we started we I just say like me my mom other people that knew him started noticing some changes in him like he wasn't really allowed to come to our church anymore his wife is very closed off doesn't hardly talk to anybody literally literally has never asked me a question in seven years like how are you? How is your son in like ever? Um and so the the messages that I sent were addressing that but it was in a really immature way. I mean I

41:18 I don't it's been here. Okay, so here's the thing. It's been so many years that I can't I honestly can't tell you specifically. I think I said things like um I may or may not have said that he drank the Kool-Aid, things like that that were not very nice. And just calling her calling out the behavior that she's had towards him and towards the family. Um so obviously in retrospect I handled it poorly. Me and my brother have always been the type that you know how some siblings are. You can say things to each other, you can yell and scream and then you're fine five minutes later. So, I sent those things in anger. Um, and then what happened was she went in his phone and read them, but wouldn't let him tell me. So, for a couple of years, I had no idea she had read these text messages.

42:10 Um, you you take away your brother's agency a lot. Okay. What do what do you mean exactly?

42:18 Has it ever occurred to you that he showed her that he doesn't want to come to Y's church? No.

42:25 How do you know that? No. No. No. I guarantee you that's not the case. He would never. No. No. No. No. No. He would not do that.

42:34 You think that You think that he would be married to somebody and somebody would rip on his wife to him

42:42 and he would choose that person over his spouse? Um, no. I don't think that. Nor do I think he should.

42:52 Yeah. I don't think you would purposfully show her. You're saying you're saying two different things.

43:01 Well, I I don't know what good it would have done to have shown her. Like even if he was like telling me like, "Hey, you're wrong. Don't ever talk to about my wife again." That's one thing. But to show her, I don't see what good that would have done. Well, to be a person of integrity and not keep secrets in his own marriage.

43:25 Yeah, I guess so. Or maybe he has said, "Hey, my" and I'm making stuff up here, right, to be provocative, but I'm just trying to give a a different side of the narrative because you've got a story that's so entrrenched in your head.

43:38 Yeah. That somehow you're trying to rescue your brother from this evil person. Yeah.

43:43 And what I found over the years is it's never that cut and dry. or that you don't know that he might have told her, "Hey, dude, don't tell my family anything. It will end up in text threads. They just run their mouths about people. Just keep low." And she was like, "Cool. Got it."

44:03 Yeah. Or I want to go to whatever church we want to go to or not go to church if we don't want to do that. And she's like, "Oh, thank God. I can't stand that place." Cool.

44:13 Yeah. I've been having to go to these Sunday lunches with my family for the last 15 years. If you don't want to like cool like you don't I guess what I'm saying is you don't know and so you have one side of a story that you've made up and this thing's gone on for seven years.

44:31 Mhm. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I I think there's some fairness to that because I do think in the beginning so me and my mom and my brother have always been very close um you know forever and so I think in the beginning there probably was a learning curve for everyone because my brother probably did consult us and let me just say this I would like to say this though I can guarantee you I have never once overstepped I've never gone to their home unannounced I think I've only been to their home three times in the past seven years so I just don't wanted it to be paint the picture that when I say that yes there was a learning curve this wasn't like a situation where he calls us every step he makes we're giving him advice on everything to do because I know some families are very imshed like that it was not that

45:17 totally but nonetheless I could see where he probably did go oh let me you know let me see what my sister's doing or whatever and that probably was something that needed to change

45:27 well and I guess I'm also wondering is it hard for you and or your mom that your beloved brother, this ride or die brother you had and your mom's, is it her only son?

45:41 Yes. Her only son chose another woman who became number one in his life. Yeah, that's a tough pill to swallow.

45:51 You know, it is. I agree. and and I've had unfortunately plenty of years now to reflect on this, but the truth is when he first met her, we were very excited because we it's a it's it's too long to go into today, but there were some things that had us separated in our earlier years. And so, we were very much like, okay, this is we're going to make up for lost time together and blah blah blah. So when she came on the scene and was just cold, indifferent, had, you know, didn't want to interact with anyone, it was very disappointing.

46:25 It still is very disappointing. Okay. And I know that's his decision. Yeah, exactly. That could be disappointing. And when he met somebody and he's like, "Dude, I think I met the girl."

46:34 Mhm. You instantly had a picture in your head of what this was going to be like. You were going to get a new sister. Y'all going to have all these fun adventures together. It was going to be one big happy family. And she was like, "I want our family to be us."

46:48 And instead of grieving that picture that you concocted out of thin air, like, "I want this to be like this." And she's like, "No, the home that we were going to co-create is going to be different than the one your sister imagined and your mom imagined." And he was like, "Cool, great."

47:02 Yeah. Instead of grieving that and saying, "Okay, I still love my brother. He clearly sees something in this woman he wants to create a life with. And so I have to grieve the the fantasy I made up and then I got to find where I can be a part of this new thing or just decide I don't want to be a part of it at all. But instead, you've kept your picture up on the wall and you keep pointing back to it saying this is the way it should be and she's the problem. And I guess I guess what I'm saying is after seven years you've still don't have a relationship with your brother which seems to be the thing you miss the most.

47:36 Well, of course, and I've I've and I again, I guess I should have done this in person in retrospect, although I can almost guarantee you it would have turned out really poorly, but I have tried three times. I've emailed her three times and basically said, "I'm an idiot. I'm so sorry I said the things I said. I was angry. I was really more angry with my brother. I'm sorry. You have every right to be mad. What can I do about this? Um, do you want to meet in person?" blah blah blah. and she will not respond to any of my messages. Um, my brother can't come to holiday meals now. He looks like he's aged 20 years. My I mean it's it's turned into a horrible big thing and and I don't know.

48:25 I don't I realize what I I realized the texts were wrong. I take 100% accountability for that.

48:30 Yeah, but I know Holly, but listen, this isn't about those text messages. cuz that was 7 years ago.

48:35 Yeah. It's not about You got to let those go, you know. Well, I can't because I'm getting beat over the head with them constantly because that's what she says is her reasoning.

48:44 She won't talk to you anymore. She I'll walk by her and talk to her and she literally will will not look at me or speak to me. And she does the same thing to my mom who never sent any text messages. And

48:55 then let it all then let it be known that it's not about the text messages. Yeah. She is going through whatever she's going through. Or let me put it this way. This is kind of a crass way to say it, but you're not the star of her story.

49:09 Mhm. And I I do realize that I I think there's something much deeper. There might there might be. There might be. But here's what I'll tell you. You've done the right thing. You reached out to her directly on multiple occasions. You've taken the high road and said, "I screwed up." And behavior is a language. She has communicated loud and clear through her silence, I don't want anything to do with you.

49:34 Yeah. And so the next thing to for you to do with this is to be real sad that you lost your brother and to grieve the fact that you have a living brother who doesn't want anything to do with you. And he says he's completely torn. He says he hates he knows that, you know, he thinks she's wrong for not being more forgiving, but he can't make her do anything that she, you know,

50:09 which is true. Yeah, I agree. There's you can't make anybody do anything. And he can have a grown-up choice of um uh this is no way even close to the same thing, but um as a family, we chose not to travel this year. But I my son and I ended up going on like almost a week long trip over the over the holiday break.

50:34 Mhm. It wasn't as a rejection of my wife or my wife wasn't rejecting her family or my it was nothing like what y'all are experiencing, but I had a grown-up choice to make saying, "Hey, I still want to go do these few things."

50:44 Yeah. Um and we it was it was awesome for everybody and we missed each other. And so your brother does have a grown-up choice to make, which is I can't make you come to these lunches. I still miss my family. I'm going to go to the lunch. He can do that.

50:59 He did that for a while. Well, it it kind of progressed for like them coming to the holidays together with her sitting on the couch on her phone, literally not making eye contact or speaking.

51:10 Okay. Just stop. Leave her alone. Yeah. Just leave her alone. It's just so It's just like I don't know how she can respect him or love him and know seeing what this is doing to him. This isn't he that my brother very much wants us to be okay. Whatever that that looks like. I do not expect any to be holding hands and skipping through the tulips or anything at this point, believe me. But it's really breaking him down. And it's hard for me to watch. And it's hard for me to watch my mom be completely dissed at every turn. And but I I guess what you're saying is, yeah, that's all good and fine and true, but it is what it is. And I have to

51:55 It's not good and fine, but it is what it is. Yeah. And so the choice y'all have is do we really cherish the time when we get our when our brother comes and we don't sit there in the corner if she shows up on the couch on her phone and side eyeing her be like oh my gosh I can't believe she we are just delighting in our brother.

52:17 Yeah. Our in in your mom's son. Yeah. Um I'm very much trying to I really don't get that opportunity hardly anymore but he does go by and check on my mom. So she gets she at least

52:30 That's amazing. Good. That's amazing. Yeah. I would not be interested in spending time with people who hate my wife.

52:39 Yeah. And so I wonder if there's a season in the same way you asked her to forgive you for sending text messages seven years ago.

52:54 Mhm. What if you wrote her a letter that you will good God never send where you just say, "I forgive you. I'm setting you down." Because you're carrying the cinder block that is your imagination of her with you everywhere and it's killing you.

53:08 Yeah. It's not affecting her at all. I know. I know. You're right. You're You're right.

53:17 Set it down. Stop carrying her around with you. Your brother chose her and he's continuing to wake up every day and choose her over and over again. And no amount of hate, no amount of side eye, no amount of mad, no amount of picking apart every action she takes or doesn't take is changing anything other than it's killing you.

53:39 Yeah. Set it down. Decide to write your brother a letter once a week. Send it OG in the mail with a stamp and only tell him some cool stuff that's going on in your life.

53:54 Yeah. Cuz what's the alternative? I mean I Yeah. Apparently there's not. I've been banging my head against the wall for seven years now.

54:03 Yes. And all you have is a concussion. It's not getting better. It's getting worse.

54:06 Yes. You just have a concussion from it. Stop hitting your head on the wall. And and I know you can't fully give advice from his point of view because you know you don't know all all of their lives and all that, but I guess there's always this point of me where I hear not only on your show but just in general and and I believe I truly do believe that obviously your spouse is supposed to be number one. I understand that. I've always understood that. But I also feel like sometimes people use it to their advantage. Like I feel like it's like even if they're having horrible behavior or whatever and they come in and they kind of wreck people people's families and I just wondered from my brother's perspective like if he can say hey I'm going to go have lunch with them every once in a blue moon or something to that effect but he goes home and there's hell to pay what does he I mean I that that's my

54:56 main concern is I don't he has hell to pay if he doesn't go he can't win he can't win and so if he doesn't come if you'll invite him and he says I can't make it. Say we love you. We're really going to miss you. Have an awesome weekend.

55:19 Yeah. And then if you put your phone down and turn it off and so your eyes out cuz you miss your brother. That's the next right move cuz the turmoil in that exchange is inside of you. And you can choose to we're just not going to invite him anymore. Okay. or we're gonna keep inviting him and we're gonna risk getting told no over and over again.

55:41 And she's welcome too. That's the thing. Like she if she walked in today and never said she was sorry but just started being halfway civil, I'd be great. Good. Let's move forward.

55:51 Okay. That's not going to happen. I mean I know that's not going to happen. Yeah.

55:54 Set her down. Yeah. And I'm confident that your brother knows that if you ever if he ever knocked on your door in the middle of the night saying, "I need a place to stay." You'd be he'd be welcome. He knows that. Yeah,

56:07 but you're taking your I guess it is just grieving because it's just, you know, my son doesn't have an uncle. I don't get to see my niece. My It's just

56:14 Yes. All of those things are true. Send pictures of your son in the mail. No, what you want to establish is not a decade of I told you so and I can't believe you and she's the worst cuz nobody wants to engage with that.

56:35 Yeah. No behavior has ever changed long term through complaining and nagging your way to something.

56:41 Yeah, that's true. What you want is 10 years from today on of I always kept showing up for you. I sent you a letter every week. I sent you a picture of our of your nephew every other week. And then when your nephew when your son is 18 and he says, "Where's Uncle so and so?" You can then say, "Man, he's struggling. I tried."

57:11 And I'm going to I'm going to be a person of character. I'm not going to get down in the mud and then get mad at everybody that I'm dirty. Yeah.

57:23 Yeah. Here's the thing. I think I think you're I think all of your anger and frustration, it's not even anger, it's rage. You're mad at this woman. I think all of that is protecting you from how sad you feel that you had this amazing relationship with your brother and he chose some to go a different direction. It's heartbreak.

57:40 Yeah. Let yourself be sad and then go do the next right thing, which might be, you know what, this is what you're you've been asking for for the better part of a decade. I'm going to stop annoying you. I'm going to stop reaching out. Or I'm not going to lose you. I want my I want you to know my nephew. My nephew's going to write you letters, too. I'm gonna send you a letter every other week forever. You can do that, too. But this is not about the text messages. Stop with that story. The next move is yours. But I think the next right move for you is a season of just being sad.

58:32 I miss my brother. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Sometimes it can feel like everyone else's love lives are perfect little Hallmark movies, but here's the truth. Married, dating, or single, everyone everyone is still figuring out how to do life and relationships well. I've been married for 23 and a half years. Both my wife and I have PhDs and we're still trying to figure out how to keep our marriage rolling down the track. And both of us have benefited greatly from our times with a good therapist. No matter if you just met someone or if you've been married forever like me, therapy can help you find your way. What you want, what feels heavy, and how you can take some of the pressure off yourself and build a stronger relationship. Whether for individuals or couples, therapy is an opportunity to identify what's getting in the way and help remove any blockers. And for all of

59:30 this, I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp is an online therapy platform that matches you with the licensed therapist based on your goals and preferences. You can message your therapist and schedule sessions through the platform. And if the first therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch anytime at no additional cost. When it comes to love and relationships, everyone is still finding their way. Find yours. Visit betterhelp.com/deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp hp.com/deloney. All right, we're back. What's up, Kelly?

1:00:04 All right, so um over the holidays, I was reading through the comments on our Ask Me Anything that came out on Christmas Eve.

1:00:10 Ah, okay. People watch people watch that. Yes. No, they didn't. Uh yeah, they did. I don't know that they all watched on Christmas Eve, but they watched it.

1:00:17 And there was an overwhelming overwhelming question about something you said, and I thought it was worth bringing up here.

1:00:25 Oh, yeah. I don't even know what's coming. No, he doesn't. I haven't told him that doing this, y'all. So there was confusion, dismay, disbelief, and anger. A lot of anger.

1:00:37 Nice. Over your comment that you and Sheila don't know who the other voted for.

1:00:43 Oh, why? So I I'll give you the the main thing that we heard. Some people just were like, "That's just crap. That's you know, that's fine." But the people that actually had valid thoughts, the main issue that they felt was if I can't talk about these kind of things with my spouse, the one person that is supposed to be my safe place.

1:01:03 Ah, gotcha. Then we're we're keeping things from each other or we're we're not being true to who we are, that kind of thing. And I understand that. We've been talking about it here.

1:01:11 Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I wanted you to go with run with that. So, a we talk about politics all the time in my house. All the time. And I have 99.99999% sure who my wife voted for and vice versa. Very clear. Um the reason and this actually started, it's a good question. I should have been more clear. It started all the way back when I was working with graduate students and everyone was always peppering me with who did you vote for? Who did you not vote for? Why won't you tell us? Are you a coward or whatever. So, the way I avoided that conversation was I told my wife, "I'm not going to ask you who you win and click the vote for and you don't ask me." And she was like, "Okay." Um, so that I could tell my students, I don't even talk I I keep that for me.

1:02:00 And I'll also say this inside my house with my marriage, like there's we talk about everything. So, rest assured. Um, my wife has told me I make things very uncomfortable when people come visit. And I just assume they all talk about everything, too. the number of times people have been at my house and I'm like, "Oh, y'all never had that conversation." Whoops. So, we're good at my house. But, um, I've also found this over the last decade especially when it comes to voting. People care less about I'm making a broad statement. People care less about I have this set of principles that I'm for and I have this set of things that I'm against and I'm going to lay these things out. People are interested in being on the winning team.

1:02:51 I want my person to have won. And so instead of saying I don't like this or I don't like this, I want to be on the winning side. Um, I think that shifts a lot of politics talk. And so I won't engage with people who are interested in defining everything I am and all the things I'm not by that one button that I pushed in this room and in in in my little cubicle or whatever. And by the way, I'll also say the last two times I voted, I took my son in with me because I wanted him to see who I was voting for and we talked about why. So, it's not like this big like but when it comes in the house, it's been a it's probably been more than a decade now. It's been longer than that. Geez, probably 15 years. We just I don't be like, "Okay, who'd you put who'd you push the button for?" I'm pretty sure I knew. I'm pretty sure. And vice versa. But it allows me to when I'm out in public, when I'm in for like forever, I could say, "Dude, I

1:03:47 didn't even tell my wife who I pushed that that button for. Um, I did tell my adolescent child and so if you want to go, he probably wouldn't tell anybody anyway. So, um, that's the answer. That's the true answer to that. Do you go home, YOU'RE LIKE, I VOTED for

1:04:01 No. Um, and I guess if my wife asked me, I would tell her. I I at least don't ask each other that question.

1:04:08 But I don't I mean, I have I mean, I'm I very clearly know where my husband stands and and I'm probably a bit more of an enigma in it than he is. But I think he also knows

1:04:17 like that he, you know, 99.99999% sure of where I voted. Um, but no, I don't go home and go, I hit this one or checked this one or whatever. So, no, that makes

1:04:27 so not a question that we ask in my house. I guess it's I get it. I get the confusion, but yeah, we we but but again, in my house, we debate personalities and we debate principles. We don't try to see which team the other person's on. Does that make sense?

1:04:41 Yeah. I think the the question that our listeners had about it was I think it they took it as we don't talk about this at all.

1:04:48 Oh god. We talk about everything in the house. Who we can't stand. People act like idiots. People act like morons. People aren't telling the truth. Like we talk about all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, we talk about there's there I can't think of a thing in my house that we don't talk about probably too much. Um but that's just a question we don't ask. And it started from self-p protection with my students, but over the years it has been that just is a question that I throw all this other baggage at you if I know what button you pushed with no context, no meaning, no I felt like I had two bad options. I feel like I had two great options. None of that. It's just a way to divide the world up. And I refuse to give that to people. And my one of my favorite things about what we've created here is um nobody knows where we stand. And that to me is the most helpful thing when you show up sitting with a hurting person, which is

1:05:45 um hey, I'm glad to see you and none of this other stuff matters. I'm happy that you're here. And so I don't know. That's that's my thing. But yeah, no, we talk about everything in our house, but we don't ask that question. Love you guys. Bye.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "My Husband Is a Serial Cheater and Nobody Knows"?

John Deloney (Host).

What is "My Husband Is a Serial Cheater and Nobody Knows" about?

A woman grapples with the challenge of concealing her husband’s repeated infidelities from her family, who admire him despite her struggles with trust and integrity in their relationship. Her past experiences with disapproval from her family weigh heavily on her decision to protect her husband's image, even as she questions the authenticity of her connections.

What is mentioned in this The Dr. John Delony Show episode?

20 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including John Deloney, Family, Marriage, Therapy, Depression, Aurora James. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "My Husband Is a Serial Cheater and Nobody Knows"?

The episode runs 1 h 6 min; the transcript is about 11,920 words in 201 timestamped sections.

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