Clarity With Money Brings Peace At Every Stage Of Life | January 23, 2026

What this episode is about

The discussion addresses the complexities of managing finances in a marriage where income disparities exist, focusing on the question of whether one spouse should incur debt to reimburse the other for shared expenses. It explores the emotional relief associated with financial clarity and mutual understanding, emphasizing the importance of effective communication and joint decision-making in achieving peace regarding money matters.

Key takeaways

• In marriage, 'yours' and 'mine' should take a backseat to 'ours'—it's team finance, not financial fencing.
• Debt for love? That's a relationship plot twist even Netflix wouldn't dare script! Love shouldn't cost you your financial sanity.
• Making equal money doesn't fix foundational issues—it's like band-aiding a leaky roof; conversations are the real repairs.
• Independence in marriage is vital, but so is sharing! Balance freedom and togetherness, or risk becoming roommates with benefits.
• Feeling like a financial landlord? Discussing financial goals can turn your partnership into a true cohabitation, not a rental agreement.

Who speaks in this episode?

• George Kamel (Host) · 51 min speaking
• Jade Warne (Guest) · 38 min speaking
• Mark (Guest) · 19 min speaking
• Scott (Host) · 13 min speaking
• Mandy (Guest) · 6 min speaking
• Phillip (Guest) · 6 min speaking
• John (Guest) · 6 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 15:00: Health Trust Financial
2. 15:00 – 30:00: Fair Winds Credit Union
3. 30:00 – 45:00: Fair Winds Credit Union, Netsuite

Notable quotes from "Clarity With Money Brings Peace At Every Stage Of Life | January 23, 2026"

• And when you're self-employed, there's no HR department to lean on. But that's where my friends at Health Trust Financial come in. For over 20 years, they've been helping families and small business owners cut through the.

  about Health Trust Financial · at 9:06

• Racking up fees because that's how they stay rich while you stay broke. And that's why I tell people to go with Fairwinds Credit Union instead. They actually want you to win…

  about Fair Winds Credit Union · at 20:32

• Didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, Just fix it. And they did. We got Netswuite. That was years ago, and we've never looked back. See, Netswuite isn't just for tech giants.

  about Netsuite · at 31:44

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

Sponsors

• Fair Winds Credit Union — Company · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at 20:38
  Credit union promoted as a better alternative to traditional banks for managing money and avoiding debt.
• Health Trust Financial — Product · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at 9:10
  Health insurance advisory service for families and small business owners, highlighted for its unbiased advice.
• Netsuite — Product · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 31:48
  Business management software recommended for growing businesses to streamline operations and gain insights.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:04 Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Show Network in the Fair's Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. All right, George, let's go straight to the call lines. We got Mark who's in Eugene, Oregon. Hey, what's up, Mark?

0:31 Hi, thanks for taking my call. How are you all doing? We're doing excellent. How can we help today?

0:36 Yeah. So, I don't have a lot of experience being married so far, only about 3 years and dealing with the finances of that. But my question is, is it normal, say if one person makes more than the other that say a big expense comes up that the other person should go into debt to pay the other spouse back? Because

0:55 zero parts of that make sense. No parts of that sentence. Who told you that? Exactly. That's what I kind of felt. I mean, regardless of how the conversation's going to go, I'm like, I'd feel relief either way. Like, we're square now, but for a couple years there, it's been pretty stressful on my part to pay her back cuz

1:16 Okay, give me a real life example, something that's happened. Yeah. So, she's had a much more stable job than me. I mean, she's about 11 years older than me, so much more set in her job, makes better money. So, how old at the time?

1:31 How old is she and how old are you? Uh, she's currently in her 40s and I'm in my 30s. And when we met, I was in my 20s and she was in her 30s.

1:40 Yeah. And so, I was in the mindset of like well I'm still building my career. I've made big career changes. So a lot of the jobs that I had throughout our relationship and at the beginning of the marriage I was only making 40 50k while she's making 130k plus.

1:57 Okay. So uh big household expenses come up you know solar HVAC unit big expenses and you know she can pay that right out of her savings. Like she had like 100 grand in savings and paid it in cash.

2:12 But then it was like okay now you owe me half. Was like okay. I was like okay. So, you don't have combined money. I mean, you guys have fancy roommates

2:23 who cuddle on the weekends. Not. Yeah. And I've actually used that same term with her. Like, I feel like I'm a renter at times. Um,

2:31 well, you guys are making no shared decisions. You have no shared financial goals, no shared accounts. Nothing about this screams we are married.

2:40 Now, have you have you asked her about that or because here's here's what I'm hearing. If you've been going along with this for all these years and haven't really said the words, uh, you know what? I I feel like we should be combined, then she's kind of just doing what she thought is normal, which is I do my thing, you do your thing. We kind of split it 50/50. You're not holding up your end of the bargain. So, it just sounds like a conversation needs to be had about you wanting to be closer to her and have more transparency and have less of a yours versus mine and more of an hours take on the money. Have you ever done that?

3:19 Yeah, as of recent within the past couple months. cuz now that we're square and I'm actually making just as much money as her because my job I finally landed pays really well and then I started my own business that also did equally as well. So I'm like, okay. But my fear is is like if I lose that job again or business doesn't do as well, I'm not making as much that

3:42 Yeah. You making more doesn't solve the root problem here. For example, my wife stays at home. It would be insane for me like, "Well, babe, since you make nothing, you owe me half." That would be ins I'd be sleeping on the couch if I'm lucky.

3:54 And so regardless of the situation, who makes more when it's y'all's money? Now we go, "Okay, we make $180,000 a year. What are we going to do with this money? What are our goals? Hey, we need to do this home repair. We want to go on this vacation. We need to pay off our debt. And so far, it's been, well, Mark, it's every man for himself. Good luck out there. And there's also, it sounds like there's some gender roles playing out where I don't know if it's both of you or her where there's this feeling of since you're the man, you have to be making as much of as her or more. I don't know if that's coming from both of you or just coming from you or just coming from her, but these are all things that need to be discussed out in the open very very candidly so that at least you know where each other is coming from and then you're able to

4:42 um bring up, hey, I know that that's the way you feel, but that's actually not my viewpoint on it. And let's seek to learn about each other first instead of changing each other first. That's what I would do. That'd be my first order of business. Let's learn so that we understand where each other's coming from. Then we can start to kind of make changes as opposed to today I want to combine our finances that you're it's probably not going to happen.

5:09 Yeah. And I I guess another one with that is say the mortgage and daycare for the kids cuz um those times where I wasn't making as much, it was still expected that I pay the exact half. But I was like, "Well, that's going to not allow me to say put as much into say 401k or savings."

5:25 Oh, yeah. The whole system is broken. How you guys been doing this? Yeah. We're going to pull up the whole thing. So, you can almost like forget about that because we're starting over.

5:33 Has she been married before? No. Okay. I'm wondering there. This is coming from somewhere where she's being very protective of what she's built and therefore doesn't want you involved.

5:46 Yeah. And I've brought that up where, you know, a very strong sense of independence, uh, and all that with with her, I'm like, okay, I get it. Love that. But if it starts to get to a point where it's like, I don't need you. Like, I've got this on my own. But kind of hold it against you is where I'm like, okay, that's it's kind of disrespectful.

6:06 Well, you become one. You become one when you get married. And it's not to say that you forsake everything that you are. You just stand next to somebody else and you both be fully who you are together.

6:17 Yeah. And the foundation of all this is trust and respect. And it sounds like you don't have either of those things from her.

6:24 Yeah. And that's what I've expressed to her over the years. And yeah, I've I've stayed consistent with that. But at the same time, I'm like,

6:32 sounds like you need a mediator, a counselor involved who can um help you guys both hear each other and take what you're hearing from each other and actually convert it into some actions that are going to get you on the same page.

6:49 Oh, yeah. We've done that. I understand where her insecurities come from, but as far as say improvements on that over time, it's it's one of those things where it's like I I don't know if you're getting there

7:00 to know that I'm on your team. I'm not a leech. What was the home? Um, well, mostly just not getting into a cycle like falling into our our cycle with each other of

7:12 say the attachment styles, anxious or avoidant attachment styles and understanding where people are coming from. uh not jumping the gun and getting it to your, you know, four horsemen, real goman. Um but

7:26 you're just saying you're just not seeing it. Well, it's as long as there isn't any I mean, we've never been in destitute. We've never really been in major debt, nothing like that. So, a lot of it to me is like, we're doing fine, but I don't know why your savings should continue to balloon while mine either stagnates or depletes because I'm like, what happens later in life?

7:51 Retirement, are you going to retire without me? For sure. That's the plan. Leave you in the dust, Mark. I mean, part of it is you can choose not to there's some of this you can choose maybe not to participate in, which is when she starts using the I versus me and versus you language. You can say, "Well, uh, I don't want to participate that. I see myself together with you." Um and and not participate in that and just say, "Here's what I'd like us to do. Here's what I'm thinking would be great for us, uh, our money." and you can really start leading the charge in that as much as you can. Um, and when she starts to make those comparisons, just say, "Well, I did not plan to pay you back because I feel like it's our money and I don't like this feeling of power struggle that it's creating." And really just hold your ground for a while.

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9:54 confident decisions about your health coverage. Go to healthtrustfinanicial.com today. That's healthtrustfinanicial.com. All right, we've got Scott who's in Houston, Texas on the line. Hey, what's up Scott?

10:23 Hey, Jaden. George, how you doing today? Thank you so much for taking my call. You bet. How can we help today?

10:29 Well, I I think I have a good situation, but I need some guidance as to how to do this. Um, I retired last February. Um, I had to because of my profession. And, um, I followed Dave's plan now for close to 20 years. So, uh, I've done fairly well. Um, basically my my nest egg is just about $3.3 million. And I've been a saver all my life. So, I'm trying to figure out how much I can spend and when I can spend it.

11:02 All right. Okay. Well, how old are you? I'm 65. 65. And what are you what are you doing right now? I mean, how how are you drawing income right now?

11:13 I'm I'm basically drawing income out of my out of my 401k that I've had forever.

11:19 And um I' I've thought about going back to work on a limited basis. I have a few small health issues that I'm working through that that are kind of keeping me from working at this point anyway just because of having to having obligations to take care of things like that. But uh but um it's just you know I'm I'm afraid to spend money because I've always saved it.

11:40 Well Oh, I see. Okay. What are your current expenses if you added them all up for the month?

11:47 Yeah, I sure have. It's basically, you know, everything comes out about $8,000 a month. And is that what your is what's your draw set on?

11:57 My draw is set on eight is just about 8,000. Okay. So, you're not you're not doing anything extra?

12:04 No. No. I'm I'm doing absolutely other than, you know, things like buying Christmas presents and, you know, birthdays and possibly going out every once in a while to get something to eat. But no, I'm I've I've been a workaholic all my life.

12:18 Well, what do you want to do? If I said, "Scott, let just shoot me straight. Do Do you want to go to Europe? Do you want to go buy a boat?" Like, what is it that you want to do?

12:28 Well, actually, believe it or not, I already have a boat. Um, and and I don't really want to travel. I I don't know what I want to do because my whole life was pretty much working and um and just, you know, existing.

12:44 Wow. Do you have any other sources of income outside of the 401k? pension, social security, IRA, anything like that, real estate.

12:51 Well, social sec social social security is in the mix, but I'm not drawing on it yet because I don't need to.

12:56 Yeah. And you know, um, and I'm not at my full retirement age. Okay. Yeah. You could wait till 67 or even 70 if you want to really get the max.

13:04 Exactly. Yeah. The math says you're fine. You could easily withdraw 10 grand a month from that account and it's never going to deplete.

13:13 Yeah. In your working life. I mean, in your lifetime. Let's say you live to even 95,

13:18 it the balance will still be there. And so I'm not worried about that unless you have some crazy, you know, your expenses are going to go up to 20 30 grand a month at some point in life, which it doesn't sound like that's the case. So you just need to factor in, you know, health care costs. There's it's kind of a smile. What they've seen in the financial planning world is once you retire, there tends to be a slight upgrade in spending for a little bit because you're like, "Woohoo!" And then as you get older, it actually goes down for a foreseeable amount of time. And then in the final stage of your life, it ramps back up due to all the healthare costs.

13:49 So, right. Right. For me, this is way less a money question and way more a self-discovery question. And I think it's really fun for you to be able to do this at at this stage in your life. If I were you,

14:01 I would be so intentional about just getting to know what do you like, what do you not like, and I would just play a game. Honestly, I would play a game where every month I force myself to budget for something new just to see, do I do I like it?

14:19 Can you make it 10 grand and the extra two is just fun money for Scott? Would you be able to do that right now?

14:25 Well, I'm I'm I'm actually doing that right now. And the problem is is I'm I'm saving I'm I'm saving my own money again.

14:34 Well, that's what I'm saying. You're not actually spending it. That's why I say make yourself, you know, go get in your friend group and say, "What are you guys doing?" And if they say, it's almost like make yourself say yes. If they say, "Oh, this weekend we're going um on a hike." You go, "All right, I'll try it." And then you come back and you go, "I'm crossing that one off the list. I don't want to do any more of that." And then if the next time they go, "We're we're going to Burning Man." You're like, "All right, I I'll try it." And then you end up, man, I really like festivals. Like whatever. I just want you to try a bunch of things and just let this be your season of I'm just getting to know Scott. I'm I'm in a new season of life.

15:11 I I am unattached from work the the way I you know it's a very different stage for me and it it's just exploratory and I think that's really really fun. There's no wrong or right answer.

15:26 I think I'm just being too cheap and I'm having trouble cutting with that. Now, do you have anyone close to you in your life?

15:33 I have two daughters. Yes. Great. Would they encourage you to spend? Uh, I I don't know whether or not they would because they've seen I mean, they're they're kind of Dave Ramsey's also.

15:47 They just know Dave Dad's a cheapkate and now he's trained us to be cheap skates.

15:52 Can I tell you though? Call me a cheapkate. Well, here's the other side of the equation. You have lived like no one else and now you're forgetting that it's time to live like no one else. It's time to do the things that felt wasteful how to do.

16:03 Yeah. Things that felt crazy and wasteful are now going to be a rhythm of your life.

16:07 You get to delegate the things you don't want to do. You get to upgrade the things that really it's time for an upgrade. You get to take the trip that felt frivolous. You get to fly first class even though you've always felt like that was a ripoff. You get to do all those things. You've earned the right.

16:21 Mhm. And so what I don't want you to do is hoard it all and then you you end up you die at 95 years old with $50 million and you're like, "Wow man, I really should have enjoyed life a little more."

16:32 But but even that, Scott, just because I think awareness of this is a really big point of it, you really have to remind yourself that you're kind of rewiring your brain in this moment because for years, you've literally created a pathway in your brain that said spending money, you've equated spending money with uh irresponsible behavior and a responsible person saves their money. A responsible person puts their money away. You've told yourself that for 40 years and now it's like, okay, I need to rewire my brain and do the work of actually doing those actions to tell myself if I spend this money, nothing bad's going to happen. And it's literally at that point, you're just following science to help you learn that if I spend money, if I spend this money, nothing bad's going to happen.

17:21 Nothing's going to implode. Nothing's going to fall off. I'm not going to destroy anything. And the more and more that you do that, the more you will free yourself up to realize, oh, this is this is good. And you won't have that part in your brain that's like, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. Right? So that I mean that's just at the like lowest scientific level what you're doing.

17:44 If you think about like a workout you you have been doing leg day your whole life and now your arms are atrophied and so it's a different kind of workout. You're working different muscles and it's going to take time. This is not a thing where next month you've just paused all investing and you're only spending. I think this is going to take a few months for you to get get in the rhythm of and it's going to go hey I'm okay. The balance is growing. Not saving is not hurting me and spending more than I used to is not hurting me. And so you're in a great spot. This is not advice for everyone. This is advice for a guy who has $3.3 million sitting there at 65. If you had half a million dollars, it would be a very different story. I'd be going, "Dude, you need to get back to work and you need to keep saving."

18:24 But you have done the hard work and so it's time to enjoy it. And uh a good book for this, the book of Ecclesiastes. It's one of my favorites for to remind myself that everything is meaningless. So, just enjoy the time you have on this earth. Drink and be merry, my friend. That's funny. I I think uh you remember when we did the live like no one else cruise last year, I talked about this exact subject of rem remembering that if you're you know walking the baby steps, you are you're wiring your brain for a while to say the habits that I was doing which were usually spending got me in a bad place. Like you've told yourself that a lot. So what I must do is not spend to get myself in the good place.

19:06 And you we tell ourselves that for however long it takes us to get out of the baby steps. And then we have to then do the work about rewiring our brain and say, you know what, I've become a a financially respon responsible adult. I can now spend my money again. And by the way, being a financially responsible adult, if you're checking the things on the checklist, you're living on a budget, you're living a life that's out of debt, you carry the proper insuranceances, you value savings in the way of, you know, having your 3 to 6 months, you're paying off your house, you're investing for your future in a 401k, and you prioritize generosity. If you're checking those green boxes, that means there's some money that you can spend in

19:45 time to party. You ran the marathon. You went past the finish line and you're still running. It's okay to take a pause, have a drink, and enjoy this third phase of your life, Scott. Hey guys, George here. Listen, just because it's 2026 now doesn't mean 2025's ideas all go away. Some things are timeless. Like if you want to win with money, it's still the same playbook. Budget like your money depends on it. Avoid debt like $10 lattes. And build wealth on purpose. But here's the truth almost nobody tells you. Most banks make money when you lose yours.

20:30 They want you swiping, overdrafting, and racking up fees because that's how they stay rich while you stay broke. And that's why I tell people to go with Fairwinds Credit Union instead. They actually want you to win with money and become debtree. And their smart bundle gives you a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, and my favorite, the new Ramsay branded debit card that says, "Debt is normal. Be weird." Right on the front. It's not just a piece of plastic with your money attached. It is a declaration. It says, "You're not buying the lie anymore.

20:58 You're taking control of your money for real." So this year, forget the gimmicks from the big banks. Forget so-called rewards that keep you broke. And instead, partner with a credit union that actually backs you working the baby steps. Go to fairwinds.org/ramsey to get started. That's fair winds.org/ramsey. Insured by the NCUA.

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22:00 Hey, Mandy. How can we help today? Hi. Thank you guys for um taking my call. But I um I I just have a I I feel like this maybe I'm making something out of nothing, but my husband is like super private about his finances and it wasn't a big deal when we weren't married,

22:25 but I guess I thought we were on the same page when we got married, which was when how long ago? Um, well, we've been together for um about 20 years. We've been married like seven.

22:39 Oh, okay. Yeah. So, 13 years together, seven years married. Yes. We've been together a long time. And um it it really didn't bother me until we got married. And I guess I thought we'd be working together. And I've tried to like encourage working together. Um he was when he turned 60 so we're an age gap couple. So when he turned 60 years old he was downsized from his company. So he he's been unemployed slashret retired since then. So that's been about 6 years.

23:19 So okay. So he's about 66 now. Yes. How old are you? I am 53. Okay. Um, how has money been handled thus far in the past seven years? What does it look like for you guys to run your household?

23:34 So, that's the thing. Like, he's been entirely like, I'm going to handle my own. We have a joint checking account for our like household bills. He just refused to combine anything.

23:48 Okay. Um, any children? None together. We've both been previously married. we have kids, you know, from those relationships, but they're grown and out of the house.

23:59 Okay. Um, so they don't really factor in. Um, but like I like obviously he's retired, so I'm thinking like down the road like, you know, what happens to one of us? What, you know, I want to think about our future together.

24:15 What have you said to him? Cuz here's let me tell you what I'm hearing from you and then you tell me. So what I'm wondering is you were together for 13 years. It was away which was very separate which makes sense. You weren't married. Then those habits kind of filtered into the marriage. When did you say and how did you say I'd like for us to now that we're married be one and then what did he say? So tell me about all that part. Well, that kind of that was kind of a conversation before we got married. Like, and I thought we were on the same page before we got married. And after we got married, like things just weren't clicking that way.

24:56 Why did you think you were on the same page? What made you think that? Because we had those conversations

25:02 and he said, "Yes, I agree." Yep. Yep. It was like, "Yep, I think that's a good idea. I agree with that." you know, and like but then it was like to actually put them in practical motion like he was just

25:16 what does that look like? And then did you dig into that? I tried like he he absolutely like he won't have a conversation. He avoids having those hard conversations. I tried going like I I wanted to go to like let's go to therapy. He wouldn't go, you know, so we can talk about these things. He refused. He won't go to therapy.

25:38 Get mad? Um, no. He just won't like he can't hear me or he can't like his he doesn't his voice doesn't come out. Like it just it's a total withdraw.

25:50 Just shuts down completely. Um, yeah. There there's a lot behind this that he's not telling you. And maybe it's from the past. Maybe it's his own insecurities. Maybe he's trying to protect because he's been hurt. I don't know what it is, but all I can tell you is that he is basically opting out of this marriage by shutting down constantly.

26:10 So, we had like a a a lifealtering thing in our family and that was kind of like it kind of made me think, hey, life is life is really short. It can change on a dime right?

26:20 So, I was like, okay, like I want to sit with a financial planner. Let's get our things in order. Let's like whatever. I thought maybe that would encourage,

26:28 you know, because it was a big deal. Yeah. And it affected all of us. And I thought, okay, this like this is going to encourage us to like get things in order. And he just he absolutely said no. Like he's got stuff on the computer. Everything is password protected.

26:46 Oh boy. And I just Do you think there's something more nefarious happening? I I like he I don't think so. I just I just feel like either one of two things. either he's got more money than um I think he does and he doesn't trust me or he's super poor and doesn't want to tell me.

27:07 So, how are Mandy for for the sake of just me assessing like your security in this? How much money do you have? Like what do you earn? What do you have in your name? Tell me about you for a second.

27:19 Um so I make about $70,000 a year. I my house is paid off. My car is paid off. I have little to no debt. Like

27:28 the house that you guys both live in is paid off, isn't it? Is it in your name?

27:32 It is. It is in my name. I like I own the house before we were together. And then your car is paid off.

27:42 So you don't have any debt? Not really. No, nothing to speak of. Like $3,000 in credit card debt.

27:49 Okay. What's in your retirement? So, I have a retirement through my um my work um which is currently like at $50,000 and I also have like a state pension. So, I'm a state employee.

28:02 Okay. So, um so I have that as well. So, I I I just wanted to know how how part of the like how how together you are and you you're on your way. Um, what I would do if I were in your shoes is I would have some real adult talk, which is in and basically setting a very clear line of here's where I am and here's what I'm going to need in order to go forward because the way that the marriage is running is not working for me. It's not valuing me. There's no trust in me. um you've you've I'm not saying that you've been um angry or like combative in any way, but I am saying that you've shut me out. And I can't be in a marriage that I'm shut out of. And our money is a huge part of our life. It touches everything.

28:56 And I'm feeling very, very put out by all of this. And I've made these attempts. I don't think I need to list them because you know about them and you have shut me out. And so now I am saying here's what I need in order to proceed. We have made it about you and we I've let you do your thing and now I'm about to do my thing. That's basically the conversation I would have. And I would say here's what I need to go forward because today I'm not safe. You've shut me out. And I don't know if that means that you have millions that you don't want me to be a part of or if it means that you owe millions and you don't want me to be a part of. I don't know. I don't know you. You're not letting me know this part of you. And I've suggested counseling. And so this is you, Mandy, at this point. This is you about you deciding how strong you want to be on the matter.

29:41 Is this going to be something that you can because the ball's now in your court. So your decision is, am I just going to swallow this and be like this for my marriage and decide that I'm going to be fine with it or am I going to decide this matters this much to me? And I think that's that's exactly right because like as many times as I've suggested counseling, I myself have gone to counseling.

30:07 You're doing your part and I am I'm cleaning up my side of the street and I think that is what has helped me like see things through a much clearer lens

30:17 as how much I'm being boxed out. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz you're getting healthy and now it's causing you to see the unhealthiness.

30:25 Yes. Yes. very much so. And I'm like I I kind of feel like maybe I'm overreacting. Like is this is this enough to like

30:34 You're not Mandy. And if he makes you feel that way, that's what the kids call gaslighting.

30:39 You are not the crazy one. You are asking for something very reasonable. Hey, I signed up for life together with this person and you are boxing me out completely. I feel anxious. I feel disconnected. We need to be on the same page and on the same team or else this can't move forward.

30:54 I'm so sorry you're dealing with this, Mandy. It's not an easy thing. We can't change people. We can control what we can control and that's us right now. So focus on you and what you can do. I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you. Your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, "Just fix it." And they did. We got Netswuite. That was years ago, and we've never looked back. See, Netswuite isn't just for tech giants.

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32:33 That's netsweet.com/ramsey. All right, going back to the phone lines, we've got Mia who's in Seattle, Washington. What's up, Mia?

32:57 Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Yeah, how can we help today? Okay, so my husband and I are on baby step number two. we are 6,9 $619,000 in debt. Um most of that is a mortgage. And so my question is really going to revolve around that. But just giving you a little background, um we've been in a new home for about a year and two months. Um our mortgage on that is 525. We inherited a parent plus loan last October in 25 for 65,000. and we have a 401k loan um that we use to get into this house and we owe 29 on that. We do own our cars and there's no other debt. So my question is we're both in our mid-50s. We're on baby step number two. We really just need a clear plan on moving forward.

33:53 How when what do you recommend for trying to get to retirement? His 401k is currently frozen. It only has 60,000 in there.

34:02 Okay. Okay. Um, so we're really wondering, should we sell and rent until we save up enough to reby smaller? Um, we also don't want to live in this area when we retire. We have family in another state with grandb babies. So, I know that's a lot to unpack, but whatever advice you can give me, I'm all yours.

34:21 Yeah, sure. So, tell us about your income. Tell us about your working life. What are you guys earning uh together, and what do you take home each month? Okay. So, I'm a stay-at-home mom. Um, I've we've we've got five kids. I'm on the last two. I have been home for 22 years, so I don't make an income. He makes uh an annual of about 200,000.

34:42 Okay. Our take-home is about 10 a month. 10 a month. You said 10,000. And how much of that is the mortgage? Our mortgage just went up an additional 500 in January due to um we they call it an assessment. So our mortgage payment currently uh with HOAs is running about 4700 a month.

35:05 Oh wow. That's really high for your income. So there is I mean that alone would cause me to say yeah you've got too much house and then you've got the debt on top of it and there's not um unless you tell me there's something that's going to happen drastically with income. You're you're up against it. That's probably why you're seeing almost no margin. Correct.

35:30 Okay. Yes. It's going to be hard either way. So let me lay out some options for you. One is you go to work full-time. and we drastically increase the income. We're able to clean up the parent plus loan and 401k loan fast, keep up with the mortgage and invest for retirement. Is that a viable path?

35:49 You tell me. My two my two children. Um we can talk about that. They're 10. They're twins.

35:55 Okay. And is there an option? And you know, I know homeschooling is a real values thing. So it's not a thing where I go, "Well, just put them in public school and get to work." But there's a reality here where you guys can't retire and you can't afford this house, which means there's no home to homeschool in. That's my fear.

36:15 And so homeschooling, all of these things, it's a luxury to be able to do that, to stay at home, to homeschool. And right now, you guys can't afford the luxury. And so it's either that or you sell, you go rent somewhere. And I don't know, can you rent somewhere for $2,000 a month, $2,500 a month in your area? We would have to go outside the main area, but it is doable. We would just have to downsize, which we're both willing to do.

36:40 Okay. We're both very open to, you know, whatever we can do. Um, so we're willing to do that. Yes. We would just have to leave this area and it would be just a small commute.

36:49 Okay. For my husband's employment and for some of our activities with homeschooling, but that would be fine.

36:54 What's What's the equity in your house? What would you take away? We've lost We've only been in a year and a half. So, we've lost equities with

37:02 fees and all that. So, you'd walk away maybe owing money. If we Okay. So, if I was honestly going to sell today, we could probably after fees walk away with maybe 60,000.

37:15 Oh, okay. That could almost knock out the parent plus loan. Yeah. That's not what I thought you were going to say.

37:20 I thought you were going to say we would make zero if we're lucky. That's what I thought. Okay. So that's a huge that's a huge change in the conversation um in a short amount of time. So,

37:31 okay, that's that makes me feel better about the idea of downsizing is the fact that you could actually make some progress very quickly by getting these parent plus loans out of the way and then that would just leave uh well, technically you do the 401k loan first, but you know what I'm saying? It it it only leave the the 35,000 there for you,

37:51 which means you could if you threw $3,000 a month, which your savings from the mortgage down to renting plus any extra margin, you could clear all this by the end of the year. So, think about that. By the end of this year, you could be renting completely debtree and start to save up some money in your emergency fund. That would create a stable foundation for you guys to then be able to invest his amazing income. That is the saving grace here is he makes really good money.

38:15 The hard news is he might need to work longer than he wanted to in order to be able to retire and support the family.

38:22 Yeah. And that also gives you the ability if you decide that you can pick up some income and that you can work. Um, it just frees you up a little bit more to be uh to to value that system that you have in place a little bit more because if you keep this house, you can't. It's like, I have to work.

38:39 It's a pressure cooker and we need to release some of this pressure right now. And I hope one day you guys get back into a house and it's not stressful and you can easily afford it and you have no debt, you have plenty of savings, you're on track for retirement. That's the goal and that's why we tell people to move real slow when it comes to a house and do it when the timing is right.

38:56 Yeah. And so there's there's viable options here, but again, it's sacrifice all the way around. There's no shortcuts to living the life that you guys want. You know, having the cake and eating it, too.

39:06 That's right. And so I wish you got a shake. Yeah. Thanks for the call. A very good situation.

39:11 You can make up for lost time on a retirement fast, making 200 grand with no debt.

39:15 Good news. Absolutely. Yeah. All all is not lost. All right, let's go to Michelle. She's in Norfolk, Virginia. What's up, Michelle?

39:24 Hi. Hey. What's up? So, my question is um I'm wondering if I should quit my job because um I have one daughter in daycare and then we tried for another and surprise we had twins which was not in the budget. Yes. Um which was not in the budget. Um, so and the question is, should I quit my job um to stay home and take care of my children um because like I don't bring in enough to cover daycare fees or should I hold out for about 3 to 6 months um and just kind of take the loss while I'm aggressively trying to find another job um because I'm not trying to have like a lapse in my resume.

40:11 I mean, there's two questions here. One is do you like working and do you want to work? Do you see what I'm saying? Like is there a part of you that wants to work or do you prefer to stay home and this just gives you the out to do it?

40:27 So I like working. I I grew up very financially insecure. So I get really nervous by not having a job or any income coming in.

40:38 Do you need the money? um in your budget. We would be we'd make do without it. Like we don't need it, but it's

40:50 What does your husband It would also be He makes um 6,500 a month. You have debt?

40:58 Um no, we have about 65,000 in the bank saved up. Great. Um well, our mortgage,

41:05 but Okay. What's your mortgage payment every month? Um 2,800. Okay. So, can you guys make it work off 6,500 take-home pay with no debt? It feels reasonable.

41:17 Um yeah, but daycare is going to cost like So, I make 3K and daycare is going to cost four grand.

41:22 But I'm saying that he makes 6,500 a month. Oh. Oh, yes. So, even without you working, you have 6,500 a month to work with.

41:31 Yeah. It's just diapers and formula. What if you worked part time? What if you split the difference and you did a part-time kind of half day with the kids and then you did a part-time job and split the difference?

41:47 I mean, I'm open to that. I'm just I you have to figure out what My advice to you would be to figure out what problem you solve cuz I I hear too. But diapers and and wipes and formula is not thousands of dollars a month. And so we also have to be realistic and look at the numbers. So, I would just make a budget tonight with your husband using every dollar, just his income. Go, here's what our future life would look like. And if the math checks out, you go, "Yeah, we can make this work."

42:12 Then go for it. Stay home. But if you also like the security, that's why I said you're solving for a couple of problems. Cuz if you like the security of working, you can work part-time, and that's great, too. Nothing.

42:23 You got options here. You got options. Just figure out is it I want to be home? Do I need a job? Do we need the money? Those are the three the three areas you need to get answers for. Tax season is coming up fast, which means a lot of you are paying more attention to your money and maybe realizing the holiday damage. So, if you're trying to clean up the budget and start the year strong, cutting your phone bill is an easy win. With Boost Mobile, keep the phone you love and pay just 25 bucks a month for unlimited data, talk, and text forever. No contracts, no traps, just predictable savings that help you stay in control.

43:04 Switch now at boostmobile.com/ramsey. Restrictions apply. See website for details. Hey guys, welcome back to the Ramsay show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I didn't say this before cuz George I think they already know but you're George Campbell. I'm Jade Warshaw.

43:31 Thank you for telling them. They may not have known it from last time. They know this voice a mile away. Who's that sultry smooth cowboy tone right there? That's George Campbell.

43:40 Cowboy. I like it. All right. You keep saying that. George. All right. We're going to go to Stacy in Portland, Oregon. What's up, Stacy?

43:49 Hi. How are you? We're doing good. Just living it up. Chopping it up. Oh, great. So, my um what I'm looking for is some advice on how to speak to our kids about just the way different families live their lives in return to spending or excuse me, in regards to spending and debt. Um you know, we've always stuck to a budget, avoided debt, and just lived within our means. Um but we have family members who are constantly being very irresponsible. They're leasing cars and defaulting on payday loans and all of this.

44:26 Wow. Yes. How do your kids know about it? Well, they don't. So, the problem is that our kids just see the outside. They see their cousins get to do all these fun things and have a nice new car and get to go out to eat and we don't do as much of that stuff.

44:45 The underbelly. So, they're they're throwing a tantrum because they're going, "Mom, why do they get all the cool stuff? We want cool stuff." And you have to be like, "Because we don't go into debt." Well, yeah. We we kind of just brush it off. We don't really say that, but so that's kind of what I'm wanting to know is how can we

45:02 How old are they? Speak to them. They are 9 and 11. Perfect. That's a great age cuz they can understand this script, right? Say, "Hey, every family does money differently. In our family, we don't go into debt." And that means we don't borrow to buy stuff because when people borrow, they get things now, but they have to pay for them later, which is stressful. We choose to wait and save instead. And that's why our life looks different. And the trade-off is worth it because we don't have debt. It means we have more freedom and options and peace and more time together. And if there's something you really want, we can make a plan for you to save up and get that thing or have that experience. We don't say never. It's just we don't do it with borrowed money. That's how we live.

45:41 Would that hit with him or would they go, "All right, I'm going to go play video games."

45:45 Uh, probably the latter. I mean, I'll be let let me put it like this cuz my son I literally had a conversation with him last night. He's not uh nine, he's he's seven. My kids are five and seven. And last night it was like, "Hey, how come I can't play K-pop Demon Hunters?" And I said, "Because I don't think that's an appropriate game for you." So, I start with a very kind of like high level cuz sometimes I can get away with a high level uh because that's just not an appropriate papa and I don't think that that's an appropriate game for you.

46:19 Okay. Sometimes he'll take it at that. But then he took it the next level. He said, "Well, all my friends are playing it." To which I said, "Prince, uh, your your friends, they have parents, and sometimes your friends parents don't value the same things that me and Papa value, and we value, uh, making sure that you're always at an age appropriate level with the things in the games that you play." Some parents don't value that. That's their business. It's not our business. And so, it's almost like that with money. It's the same thing of saying, "Hey, you're you're going to see people spend their money in ways that are different from us, and that's just a reflection of our values in this house.

46:58 Here's what we value." And I think that if you can frame it up from that set of values, it actually helps you answer a lot of those questions in the same way. Do you know what I mean? Cuz then you can always go back to values. Well, in our house, we value this, this, and that, and so that doesn't align. Simple as that.

47:16 Does that help at all? You you honestly, Stacy, you're further down the parent train than I am. So, I mean, how do you how do you if your kids framed up something like that that they want to watch a movie that you don't approve of or they want to go someplace with their friends that you don't approve of, what would you say to them?

47:34 No, that is pretty much how I would handle it. Um, pretty much the same thing is just, you know, different families do things different and what works for us doesn't always work. But the only thing I I worry about and I don't know maybe I'm thinking too much about it is uh they have cousins who are close in age and I wouldn't want them going off and saying oh my parents say your parents are in debt and they're doing

48:01 well that's why you go to the value side and that way you don't have to talk anything about what they're doing. It's not you're not throwing shade at them. you're just saying, "Hey, we don't have the money for that thing and we're not going to borrow money to do it." And so it's if they go to their cousin's house and say, "Well, our mom says that we we don't we're not going to go into debt for it. We can't afford that right now." Fine. If they want to, you know, judge you for that or, you know, the the family wants to judge you for that, that's fine. You're going to get judgment from family regardless no matter what you do. So, you might as well do it debtree.

48:32 Okay. All right. Well, thank you very much. Absolutely. No, no worries. I think it's going to take some several conversations. I don't think it's a one time. With a kid, it's like you need to say it 20 times and maybe they'll get it on the 21st.

48:44 Yes. And even when they're younger, sometimes I feel like you want to talk about it more than they even care about it. It's like they just brought it up, but then they're already on to the next thing pretty quickly. Now, at 9 and 11, yeah, they might keep hounding you, especially if it's something they want to have and they keep continually seeing it. But at the end of the day, man, values.

49:04 Yeah. Tying it back to family values goes a long way. I would go to my friend's house, my cousin's house and play with all their toys that they bought and I had a great time and I'd go home and I had my stuff.

49:14 Yeah. I'd sneak over to grandma's if I wanted to watch cable, you know. Absolutely.

49:19 And so I didn't feel like I needed to have it personally. I just wanted access to

49:23 just bum it off somebody else. Exactly. Our neighbors had all the best Nintendo games and so we would go over there and their parents would buy them uh like their they never ate at home. So everything was like, "Do you want McDonald's or Taco Bell or Burger King?" And if you were over there at just the right time, listen, you're getting a happy meal.

49:40 Great. This happens as an adult. Like I love to be on a boat. I am not going to buy a boat. I just want a friend with a boat.

49:46 Yes. Who's happy to take us out on the boat? Yes. That's the key in life. The the key in life is knowing that. And it's also to know like sometimes you're around your neighbors and you think I should have the same lifestyle as they do. After all, we live in the same neighborhood or after all maybe we work at the same workplace. But at the end of the g the day, at the end of the day, you don't really know what their life is. And so you have to also be careful not to make that comparison game. Kids can do it, but our cousins have this.

50:18 But if adults do it, it it it can at some point you got to mature and go, I don't need to look at my neighbor's bowl to see what he has.

50:25 Yes. Unless I want to make sure he has enough. Right. That that's the only time to be looking over to see opportunity to be generous, not to be envious. Yes.

50:33 That's just that you're drinking a poison. I always think about I think it was Kevin Hart. I think it was the Laugh at My Pain comedy special where he was talking about going out. I think it was this. He was basically talking about going out with his celebrity friends. And it's like if you're friends with basketball players, like it's really easy to think, oh, we're on the basketball team, so we all make good money. But if you're the starting player, like if you're if you're on the starting team, you make a lot more.

50:58 It's a different world you're living in, right? So you have to know that showing up like, hey, I don't have we might all work at the same place or we might all live in the same neighborhood, but it does not mean our lifestyles are supposed to look the same. And I liked that that basketball team kind of analogy to remember. We're all wearing a jersey, but it does not equate to the same life.

51:20 And that's going to happen all over in our normal lives. We all have friends who make a lot more than us, that make a lot less than us.

51:26 And you treat everyone the way you'd want to be treated. You never belittle them. And you understand everyone's in in a different place financially.

51:33 That's okay. It's all good. That's their business. It's all good, baby. Cost you 0 to mind your own business.

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53:12 Use the promo code Ramsey to save 20%. That's mabarleformms.com. Promo code Ramsay. All right. All right. To the phone lines we go. We've got Carol who's in Cincinnati, Ohio. What's up, Carol? How can we help today?

53:38 Hello, Carol. Um, hello to you. Um, my husband and I are old and retired. I'm 75. He is 80. Um, we have a 52year-old daughter who still lives with us. Oh,

53:54 she is single and she is has always been undermployed and we can afford to have her here, but she is annoyed. We would like to be alone in her old age.

54:04 I bet. Is there a way to get her out? Yes, you need to go. Kicking her out, closing the door, changing the locks. I'm being dramatic, but yeah, there's a way to get her out with you. Well, she has um over her lifetime over her 52 years, she has lived with us almost all the time.

54:29 Oh boy. Had two boyfriends that she lived with for a while. One of our sons took her in for a year

54:35 and that helped us out a lot. But then he says she cannot be here anymore and none of our other kids will take her in.

54:42 Why does anybody need to take her in? Is she Does she have any disabilities? Does she have anything that precludes her from living in life?

54:49 From working? Yeah. She doesn't want She doesn't want to work. She doesn't have to.

54:53 You want to work? But she hasn't had to. She's right. And we have enabled us and we need to

54:59 Okay, good. You know that. Learn how to not enable her. The way you learn to not enable her is to stop the behavior today cuz she knows you guys will be a doormat and just keep going and let her come back and keep covering the bills whenever she's short. And so instead, you go, "Hey, you need to leave by the end of this month."

55:18 Yeah. By the end of this month, and then you have to evict her cuz likely there might be actually be some laws around this because she's lived there for a while, receives mail there. This is like a tenant. And so I would actually look into your state laws and you might need to contact an attorney to do this right. I don't know how how wild she is. She comes after you guys to sue, but you want to make sure you do this right.

55:39 Okay. Yeah, I don't realize there's recent legalities with this. I mean, she could

55:44 she's living for 30 years. She's basically squatter's rights at this point. So, you might need to give a written notice and say, "Hey, you need to leave by this time

55:52 and the decision's final. You cannot let her back in. She needs to figure it out. She needs to spread her wings and fly."

55:59 Okay? And there's going to be backlash. The end of the What is What is she going to do when you tell her this?

56:05 Well, she will probably yell or she will probably cry or she may just stomp out the door and say, "You'll never see me again."

56:13 Okay. Well, that's her choice, though. 52 52 years old. If she does that, then she You're just going to have to let her do that because that's the behavior of not a 52year-old. I practically speaking, Carol, here's exactly what I would do. You and your husband, I would sit down tonight. Um maybe when you get off this call, you and him huddle up and say, "Here's what I heard on the call. Here's what we're going to do." You're going to sit down and you're going to say, "Uh, daughter, this has been this has gone on long enough. We have decided that you are moving out. Not that we want you to move out, not that we need you to move out. Say it clear. We've decided that you are moving out and you're going to move out at the end of the month and you're going to move into your own place. Um, it's up to you what you choose." Now, Carol, I don't know.

56:58 I'm not saying you have to put her on the street. Do you know if she has any money? Because if you if you know that you know that she has zero dollars, what you and your husband could decide to do is make sure that she at least ends up in a place, right? You can make sure she's there's a place for her to go to and you have it set up that she can go there. Meaning maybe it's first and last month's rent is paid so she can get into the place, but it's up to her to keep keep the living expenses going. And you let her know that. say we have, you know, and I'm just making this up. We know that you don't have any money, so we're willing to pay first and last month's rent, which is X amount of dollars. No more, no, you know, no more than that. And up from there on, it is up to you. And we have also decided that we're prepared to see this through to the worst extent. We are not it. We're not worried about you becoming homeless.

57:52 We're not worried about you not having a place. We're not concerned about that. We have the full confidence that you can do this. So, please do not come and ask for any money because we will not be giving it to you. And make it so so crystal clear. I love you, but this has to stop for your good and for ours. And that's the conversation. And she's going to yell and kick and scream and you're going to go to bed and you're going to drink a warm glass of milk and you're going to sleep the best sleep of of of your 75 years.

58:22 This is going to be probably the hardest thing you've ever done in your life, Carol, cuz deep down you love this woman.

58:28 You want what's best for her, and you feel guilty. You feel shame for enabling this behavior and allowing it to happen. You don't want to see her on the streets and have her life take an even worse turn. But this is the best thing you can do for her because her growth has been stunted for far too long. And if she lives another 30 years, she needs to live it freely with independence, not codependent on mom and dad in their old age. Well, it's for sure. We can Well, we're going to die.

58:54 We all are, Carol. That's That's good advice. Yeah, it's coming for all of us. No one escapes it. And so, you need to have a real serious calm conversation telling her, "Here's what's going to happen."

59:05 Does your daughter have any addictions or anything that you think could rear rear its ugly head?

59:11 Okay. No. Has she ever been violent? Uh, when she was a teenager, she been violent.

59:17 Okay. I'm just I'm wondering just for your safety. Anything a teenager could do? I I don't think she would. However, she she could be suicidal. She may say, "Okay, there's no point of living. I'll just go end it."

59:28 Is that her doing that just for attention or does she really mean that? She's tried it two or three times.

59:35 Okay. Wow. Um, so then making sure you know making sure you know, and I'm sure you've had some sort of counseling on this, what to do in those situations

59:46 and what your role is in those situations. I don't think your role is to let her move in again.

59:54 I think your role is to get her set up with counseling, right? Yeah. And that's the way to do it with kindness. Hey, we're we're going to cover six counseling sessions for you and cover first and last month, but you have 3 days to vacate the premises. Otherwise, we're going to have to file an eviction and it's going to get ugly. We don't want to do that, but that would be the next step.

1:00:16 Okay? And have the non-emergency police line ready to go in case things take a turn.

1:00:23 I don't know. And so that that's the scary part, the unknown. And it's probably why you've put this off for so long because you don't know what's on the other side of this. you know, it could get worse before it gets better to die. We we don't want him to get, you know, killed in the streets,

1:00:38 but we also would like to be have a quiet, peaceful home, and that's fine, Carol. You

1:00:44 It's about time. That's totally fine. You're not asking for something crazy. You're not shooting for the stars here. Um, I just I think that for you, your piece in this is just understanding that your daughter's totally grown and she's going to make decisions that you cannot control and she could make many decisions that you do not like that you don't that you can't control or that you know are bad for her that you can't control. And

1:01:09 so for you going into this conversation, as much as you can start to just really make some peace with that and almost prep yourself for that feeling because something's going to happen that she's going to lash out and you're going to want to do that old familiar song and dance.

1:01:28 Yeah. Right. And she will expect it. And so will you. And it it's it's going to come knocking at the door. And so you're going to have to be prepared mentally and physically. And same thing with your husband because if he folds it's a problem, right? So you guys have to be

1:01:44 So he's he is more on this than I am. Okay, good. So you'll have to do your your due diligence to make sure you're loaded for bear when this comes because it's not it's not going to be easy and you know that.

1:01:59 And I would warn her, hey, we're going to have a hard conversation tonight. I want to let you know it's going to be uncomfortable, but we need to have it. Okay.

1:02:07 That we're not coming in cold, busting in her room, going, "You need to get out yesterday."

1:02:11 Yeah. Don't do this. That's so good, George. Don't do this out of anger. Like, if something happens and she comes home tonight and there's an argument, postpone the conversation cuz you can't do this like with a hot head. You have to do this when you're in your most uh cold state. Like there's there's Yeah, you're zen.

1:02:29 Oh, good luck. This is not not I don't envy you in having this conversation, but it's so hard because you can't control the past. You regret it. You can control what you do now, but then you can't control how they react and what they do next.

1:02:42 And that's the hard part. You're like, I want them just to go get a job, start paying rent, and have a great life.

1:02:48 Yes. But that part is not up to you. You know what? Ah, Christian, send her a copy of my book, What Noone Tells You About Money. It's not a money conversation, but you will love Carol the chapter on guilt and shame. Especially when it's about something that someone thinks you did not do, even though you know you're doing the right part, it'll help you

1:03:24 This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, as we head into the new year, I want you to take an inventory of all of the junk you're carrying. You know, all those things you have to do, all those things you think you should do, all of the past hurts, all the past pains, all the past guilt and shame, all of it. When the world feels heavy, it's important to look in the mirror and consider maybe for the first time setting down that old weight and choosing not to carry it forward into 2026. Therapy can help you identify the heavy stuff, set it down, and move forward with clarity so you can focus on who you want to become in the new year.

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1:04:57 You're listening to the Ramsey Show. Thanks for hanging out with us. All right, guys. Let me tell you a little something about our tax pros. Do you have the sheet, George? I was about to read it. Okay,

1:05:09 maybe they just gave it to me. I'm special. I'm not. Okay, I found it. You want to You want to tag team this with me? Is that what you want to do? Okay, I'll read the first one. George, I don't know if you know this, but one of the best things you can do for your finances is to have a really good tax pro in your corner that you can trust.

1:05:23 Absolutely. They'll help advise you on the best moves to make for your situation or for your small business, especially if you've had some big life changes in the past year.

1:05:31 That's right. So go to ramseyolutions.com/taxpro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsay team. So so important.

1:05:39 Speaking of team, what a great team we just made. Peanut butter and jelly. I love it. Ryan in Columbus, Ohio is up next. Hey Ryan.

1:05:49 Hey, how are you? Hey, my question is related to starting a small business. I am 23 years old. I have my own auto repair shop. I've been running it for approximately a year. here. I set up the business in January of 2025. Um, the thing I'm running into now is I started out in a very small one bay garage building. Um, I've got a single service bay, very small space. I did that all with cash. That was my goal out uh without borrowing anything. Now I'm running into the issue of I've got customers that I'm losing their work because they don't have the space and efficiency to get it through because of you know I tear some apart I got to get it out before I can get something else in. You know that kind of thing. Um

1:06:35 and uh and so I'm wondering at what point the balance is between gaining efficiency and borrowing to do so. I I'm trying not to borrow, but I'm lo I feel like I'm really losing efficiency and traction because of it.

1:06:50 What would it take What would it take financially to expand in cash? Well, I've I've got the end of 2025, I was able to to mostly cash flow uh the shell of a building that's going to be a three bay shop building. Um it's all it is on my own property, so I own the land. There's no additional uh lease or anything like that. Um I I had a contractor put it up that cost me about $30,000 in the building package. It's just the shell, just very basic shell um of a building.

1:07:20 What about the rest of it sitting there like that? If I had another maybe 30 to 40 that would get it insulated, heated ready to go uh to be able to make money out of it.

1:07:33 What are you taking home from the business every month? Last year I basically didn't pay myself. I was living off of personal savings for uh my personal bills. Um that of course only lasted for a certain amount of time. This year my goal is to pay myself approximately $3,000 a month. Um and that's what I have it set up uh for this year. Last year I paid myself like $6,000 out of the business.

1:07:56 Are you working full-time on top of this? No, no, this is my full I quit my full-time job December of 2024.

1:08:03 That's awesome. Okay. But you've made $6,000. That was what I paid myself as a salary.

1:08:11 Yeah. You made I'm telling you, you made $3 an hour doing this last year. Do you understand the math on this?

1:08:19 No. So, let me be clear. So, I I was only working full-time for myself. I was doing some other part-time gigs at the beginning of the year as work picked customer work picked up. The business itself had a gross revenue uh with customer work of $120,000 last year. and the net or the the gross profit I should say after cost of goods sold and labor cost um was about 80,000

1:08:40 that's how you were able to do the three bay deal and all that correcting all the pay personal salary correct but that can't go on forever obviously this year I'm hoping to to actually create a sustainable salary for myself

1:08:54 how long will it take you if you pay yourself that 3k a month how long will it take you to take some of the earnings out of the business and save up Well, the 40,000, but what I really want to ask is, and I'm sure you've turned this around every which way, is there a way that you can get that three bay uh shell? What's the least amount of work that you need to do on it? Just so you can get in there

1:09:20 and get some business and garage I could put concrete and garage doors in for probably around 20 20 to 25.

1:09:29 Okay. How long would it take you to get that? me till the winter. Uh, so that would probably take me that's probably going to take me, you know, maybe the next 6 months, I want to say, before I could comfortably feel like I could write those checks.

1:09:43 Okay. So 6 months gets us kind of 6 months gets us a platform and the doors that we need. And after you have that installed, would you be able to do a little bit of work out of a little bit of business out of there?

1:09:55 I would be able to move my main operations into there. It would just be that within a couple of months after that I would be needing insulation and heat which is kind of like where the rest of the

1:10:02 Well, that's great comes in. But at least you could start making money out of it

1:10:05 tight. The point is you could at least start making money out of it so you're not having to turn away business in 6 months

1:10:13 plus plus actual work, right? And then I feel like once I've got some more space, it's going to be more equipment and more all that stuff that's going to be, you know, that's where the thousands and thousands add up. Would would that be uh just something that I would just I know I know Dave says about being on the cover of Slow magazine and that's really what I feel like right now.

1:10:33 Means you're doing it right. You're doing the the next smallest step that you can take. So right now and you tell me if I'm wrong, but the the the the next baby step is I'm going to spend 20 to 25 doing the garage and the doors and I'm going to kind of move everything over there. Now I can start taking on more customers. Now I have more cash flow coming in. So, I should be able to pretty quickly add the insulation. And now that's going to create a better environment for everybody. I can keep I've now tripled the amount of work I'm doing cuz I have three spaces now. And now I can keep going. And you should be able to whatever the you know, machinery and things you need. The more that you're doing is the more money that you'll come in to be able to do, if that makes sense.

1:11:16 Mhm. I'm just worried right now I'm losing business because I'm not able to, you know, get stuff in fast enough for people. And

1:11:23 you are, but that won't be for long. Not going to hurt me long term. But it's not going to hurt you long term cuz you're going to do this in 6 months. So, you've got 6 months to kind of grit it out. And I mean, there might be some solutions that you can figure out in the in the short term. Um, but understanding that I'm kind of having this short-term suffering, which is, uh, I hate the feeling of turning business away, but also knowing that in six months you're not going to have to do that.

1:11:50 And there's no payments to be made and no debt to pay off, which just increases if

1:11:54 everything would fold up or if I would break my leg or something, you know, that it wouldn't be eating me up on payments while I'm not able to produce an income or that. You're just adding risk to the equation if everything else would pull out. You're not going to be gaining.

1:12:07 I am making money. Yeah, I feel like I'm making money on how to fix cars. It's just that it's very very slow because everything costs a lot.

1:12:14 So, what's your what's your you tell us what you want to do? What do you want? What's your gut telling you to do?

1:12:22 I don't want to borrow money. Then don't. There's no You said at the beginning of the call, I I want to try to not borrow money. Instead, rephrase it. I'm not going to borrow money. I will move at the speed of

1:12:32 I feel like everybody in my industry I feel like everybody in my industry is making payments on everything and I feel like I'm kind of the slow dog.

1:12:38 That's fine. You read you ever read The Tortoise in the Hair? Reread it tonight. It'll be a good reminder.

1:12:44 It's one of Dave's favorite books cuz here's the thing. It's really hard to fall flat on your face and have this business fail if there's no debt attached to it. What you're really buying is freedom

1:12:55 even though it's going to take more time and it's moving slower and the guy next door is crushing it because he's got a bunch of payments and he's it's working for him. But man, you are a soloreneur and I can't tell you how many small businesses fail because they're overleveraged and they thought they'd have the customer base. They thought they would make money and the lender doesn't freaking care. They want their payment every month regardless if your business succeeds or fails.

1:13:19 And I think I'm 23. You haven't been an adult long enough to to be learn patience yet. So that's probably

1:13:24 Well, no, you have. You have. I'm going to tell you right now when you called in, Ryan, and you told us what you did, I was immediately impressed, which George knows it's hard to for me to feel impressed.

1:13:34 Jade, am I anyone? And cuz I immediately was like, "Wow, this guy's patient." That was my first thought is like, "Wow, this guy's really been patient." When you explained to us how you built this, I thought, "Well done." And so I think you already are patient. I think what's happening is what happens to all of us, which is you kind of had your, you know, like horses, they wear the thing around their eyes so that they can't see to the right or left so they don't get spooked. You know what I'm talking about?

1:14:00 I think that that I think the blinder came off and you look to the right for a second and it spooked you and you're like, "Oh, maybe I'm not doing it right. Maybe I need to go on another path. Maybe I need to you need to put your blinder back on and keep focusing on your business. What you've done is working. You're so successful that you can't keep every you can't take all your customers. You're so successful.

1:14:21 Problem. Now's not the time to go do something else and go into debt. Now's the time to keep steady. Keep going on your path. What got you the the the business you have is who you are. You're great at fixing cars. You do what you say you're going to do, right? Let that follow you into this next phase of your business.

1:14:51 Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something. Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

1:15:15 That's a gut punch. And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next.

1:15:25 Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly

1:15:37 these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

1:15:48 To just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or call 8003564282.

1:16:23 All right, the Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Wy 5. Hey, you don't have to stay stuck in defaulted private student loans forever. Y Refi helps borrowers take back control with affordability refinancing options that actually work. Learn more at yrefi.com/ramsey. That's the letter yfy.com/ramsey. And remember, it may not be available in all states.

1:16:48 Today's question comes from Glenn in Virginia. I've been looking at my credit report to make sure I'm including everything I need to pay off in my debt snowball. If an account is listed as closed but still shows a balance, do I still owe that money? If so, should I call them and set up plans to repay what I owe? Good question. Well, closed just means the the account is no longer active. So, if you closed it with a balance, that's a normal thing to do. It may have been, you know, charged off in collections. Um, but you want to look for those key phrases. Paid in full would be a nice key phrase to see that it's actually paid. So, you likely still owe them money. Closed with a balance does not mean it's been forgiven. It just means it's not active there. So, I would call them and set up plans to repay what you owe because you likely do.

1:17:35 Oh, yeah. Definitely. Definitely. And doing the doing it based on your credit report. That's a good place to start cuz sometimes there are things that are active actively holding a balance, I should say, that you don't know about it cuz maybe you moved or they stopped sending you notices or it went to your spam account. Anything like that is possible

1:17:53 and it's a good you can check it for free. Never pay for this. You can go to a website annualcreditreport.com and pull it from all three credit bureaus without paying a dime and it's worth doing.

1:18:03 Very very good. Let's go to Victor in Chicago, Illinois. I love that name, Victor. What's up?

1:18:08 What's wrong? Hello. Um, thank you for taking my call. You're welcome. Um so I am currently in uh 50 like 50k a little bit over 50k in debt uh with credit cards uh personal loan and a vehicle.

1:18:25 Okay. Um, so my question is how smart or dumb would it be for me to close like not close out but take out a big chunk of my 401k which is about 62,000 to pay out most of my debt.

1:18:45 It would be a mistake. From the smart to dumb spectrum, it's as pretty much as far as you can get on the dumb side. The idea of paying off the debt is not dumb, but doing it in that way to George point George's point is would not be a smart avenue.

1:19:03 Now, go ahead, George. I would just I want you to think about what's actually happening here because a lot of people just go, "Well, I can break into the piggy bank in case of emergency." But here's what actually happens when you pull 50k out. It's more like 75 and 90K because you have a 10% early withdrawal penalty. So 50k, you pay $5,000 right there. Now you got federal and state taxes which could be you know 20 30% another 10 to 15k and so to net 50k you'd have to pull out 65 or 70 plus that money is now pulled out forever and if you pop in 50 grand how old are you?

1:19:35 38 38 from 38 to 68 that 30-year gap of that 50k growing for you would be hundreds of thousands of dollars. And so you didn't make a $50,000 mistake you made one with a lot more zeros on the end. And so you're robbing from your future to pay for a current to put out a current fire. And so there's better ways to do it. So let's get into the better way. Are you with me that you're not going to do this?

1:19:59 Yes. Hallelujah. Okay. Yes. So what is the 50k in debt? Break it down. Uh personal loans for um I believe it's 32 left to pay off.

1:20:12 32,000 or 3,200? 32,000. Okay. To pay off. Um, and uh, credit cards add up to about 10 10,000 and the rest is the car.

1:20:27 Okay. How much do you make a month? Uh, roughly about fivek. Okay. So, we're bringing home 60k. We got 50k in debt. And so, this is a a math problem to solve, which is we need more income and we need to cut down our expenses down to the bone. So the question is what caused you to to get here? What did you spend the money on from these personal loans and credit cards?

1:20:52 So the first I I uh racked up the credit the credit cards uh credit cards between um like regular credit cards and then I consider Afterpay and Clar all that also credit cards. Why were you spending that because you're trying to survive and your budget is not getting you enough money or tell me tell me what caused that.

1:21:17 It was uh wants uh fast uh if I didn't have the the liquid cash it would be the fastest way to get it and pay off a little bit little by little. Uh but it it had racked up. So I took out a personal personal loan um to clear all of that and so took out the loan and didn't didn't stop the spending.

1:21:43 Yeah. So another great reason not to take the 401k loan because we've already learned that that method of kind of taking a loan to pay off debt doesn't work right?

1:21:53 Yeah. So George and I are going to suggest a way that's really going to cure your behavior because it's going to cause you to have to make real changes, really feel things, therefore kind of learning your lesson the old-fashioned way, which is I get a consequence and it doesn't feel good. I don't know. I probably shouldn't say this, but back in my day, we used to get spankings when we did things wrong and it hurt. It's It hurt. It was like, oh my gosh. and you cry and you make sure that from now on you're back home before the street lights come on. And so that's kind of what this is going to do to you is you're going to feel like, man, I never want to do that again. It's going to feel like discipline for you to do this.

1:22:34 So, okay, George is right. Income uh is the main deal here. There's really two parts to this equation. It never changes, Victor. You need to cut back and you need to increase income simultaneously. Both of those things. How much is your rent? Uh 1,00.

1:22:50 Okay, great. I'm glad to hear that. So for you, it is like bare bones. It's just you, no wife, no kids. In my mind, if I'm you,

1:23:00 I am going down to nothing. All right. I'm cutting everything out. The memes uh used to say disappear for a while and then and then you come back debtree. That's you. You're disappearing.

1:23:12 Okay. Okay. And then in the meantime, you're working like Michael Jackson said, day and night.

1:23:19 Okay. Yeah. What can you do? What What are some Tell me, list off a couple of ideas that you can do for work so I know that you get it.

1:23:26 Uh well, I'm I'm a very handyman, so I could definitely do some side side gigs with when it comes to like uh like construction.

1:23:37 Great. I can really get my hands on if I could get a job doing something, I could do it pretty much other than tech. I'm not good at tech.

1:23:46 Okay, awesome. Can Can you advertise that? Can you get on Thumbtac? Can you get on uh a Facebook group?

1:23:53 Yeah, I could probably do that. Yeah, do that immediately. And And I would start in my circle. If you go to a buddy's house and you realize something's wrong, say, "Oh, I'll do that. I'll charge you 50 bucks." Go to your parents house. the the fence is broken, say, "Oh, I'll fix that at 75 bucks." Start marketing your talents and just start noticing stuff and just start telling folks, "You'll fix it for this amount." Okay. In the meantime, and then get get on one of those sites. Uh f What are the different I'm thinking Thumbtac Fiverr. I've used all those different all those different apps where you can rabbit. That's another one.

1:24:30 Uhuh. Where you can put your your things out there. And here's the thing. You need to make a goal. I want you to go on Every Dollar Tonight. If you don't have it, Christian will pick it up and we'll give it to you. And I want you to plot out with what you're making now. Do do the the part in there that's going to uh tell you how long it's going to take. So, you'll fill out the you'll fill out the onboarding there, and it's going to tell you at your current pace, it's going to take this long. And it's going to suggest a bunch of things for you to do, Victor, to find stuff. Get the side hustle, pause all investing, which please tell me you will pause all investing down to zero.

1:25:04 And so that means like no contributions to the 401k. Yeah. Zero. What that's going to do is free up more money to go toward the debt. We need to focus on one thing right now and that is becoming debtree and staying debtree.

1:25:14 And so all of this together is going to help you. We're going to do the debt snowball. Smallest to largest balances. Attack the little one with everything you got. Minimum payments on the rest. And here's the math on it. The napkin math says if you can put a little over two grand a month towards your debts, you're debtree in less than two years.

1:25:29 Okay? So that's the plan. I know that sounds like forever and you want the shortcut of just knocking it out now, but you're just trading one debt for another right now. And so that's we can't look to debt to be the solution anymore. You are the solution. Your future income, anything you have in savings above a thousand bucks, anything you can sell, all of your talents and skills put to good use. That's what's going to get you there, man. We're rooting for you.

1:25:52 Yeah, you can do this. Call us back and tell us when you're debtree. Well, welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair's Credit Union studio. George, are you ready to get to another call?

1:26:30 I don't know how I could be more ready, truthfully. Well, I'm pretty ready. And this person is is in Austin, Texas. Sydney is on the line. Hey. Hey, Sydney. What's up?

1:26:38 Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. You bet. I just I just wanted to make sure that we're on the right track um with the amount of money we're making, saving, investing, and still feeling like we have money to spend on the things that we want and not eagerly waiting for payday.

1:26:53 Oh, okay. Tell us more about your situation. Um, so I just downloaded every uh every dollar this month 2026 getting on our on our uh budgeting and I plugged in all of our bills and all the things that we want to spend money on and there seems to be quite a bit left over yet the past especially the past six months uh the past year really we just eagerly waiting for payday.

1:27:18 Okay. What do you So, in reality, you're paycheck to paycheck, but on paper, in every dollar, it's like, hey, you should have $8,000. Well, you know, you're like, what? Where is this going?

1:27:26 That means you're just not sticking to the numbers. Yeah, we're not sticking to the numbers. And we do put away a little bit in savings. We do have quite a bit in savings, but is not as much as we would hope considering how much money we make.

1:27:36 How do you make? So, this this information just became privy to me. Um, my husband's been taking care of the finances up until now, but he is seeing that I cannot budget if I do not have the information. So, he helped me out setting up the Every Dollar app, putting in his income, and I pay all of the bills, and I do all that kind of thing with the shared money, but I make sure all the bills are paid. Okay.

1:27:58 I think it's about 40 about 40k a month. $40,000 a month. So, you're talking like half a million dollar take-home

1:28:05 a year. Yeah. Wow. Some months it's a little less, some months it's a little bit more.

1:28:10 I was not expecting that with the way this call was set up. I'm not going to lie.

1:28:15 Okay. So 40,000 a year is a lot. I just I think America's going I wouldn't know how to spend $40,000 a month if you gave it to me.

1:28:23 Yeah. What's your mortgage? What's your mortgage pay on to my every dollar and you could check how I spend it.

1:28:27 You should DM it to Jade and I just for fun cuz we we have a dark curiosity. We want to know how you would even do that.

1:28:33 Listen, if you did, we would look at it. So tell us tell us tell us the biggest

1:28:39 tell us a couple of the biggest line items on your budget. I'm guessing there's a house. I'm guessing.

1:28:45 Well, we try to put away about 12K, maybe like between 10 and 12 for taxes every month just to make sure that that's in an account. So when that happens, we're not like scrging. So that we do put away.

1:28:55 So that's not actual income then. Yeah. No, we put away Oh, yeah. But that's before taxes.

1:29:02 Oh, okay. So after taxes, it's closer to 28, I guess. So Okay. So in every dollar you're going to list takehome pay. Is that what you did or did you list the gross amount?

1:29:13 No, I listed the gross and then I put in as a category taxes. Got it. Okay. Okay. It may be helpful for your, you know, sake to to do it the other way. But if you're taking if the gross money shows up in the account, that's what you're budgeting off of. So that makes sense.

1:29:28 Yeah. Because the gross will show up at our account and then we take care of paying paying taxes quarterly.

1:29:33 Okay. Fantastic. And then how much is your mortgage every month? So we have a rent is 3,300 a month.

1:29:39 Fine. Okay. any debts, a little bit of credit cards for just the last couple of months being lazy to pay it off. And we want to put a lot of money into savings so we don't end up paying the credit card. Not much, maybe 16K at most. And if we really wanted to, we could pay it off. We just we want to make sure we're on the right track and really start budgeting.

1:29:57 Did I'm sorry, can I go back a second? Did I hear you say you rent? Yes, we rent.

1:30:02 Uh why? How long have you been making this money? um this money about a year for the year before that it was clo it was also good. I'm yeah we've been married four years so it's been it's been getting better every couple years.

1:30:19 Okay. But you've been six figures for upper six figures for quite a while. We've always been six figures. Um upper six figures. Yeah. For quite a while.

1:30:28 I understand the renting part right quick. I'm just Location Location is very important to us. Um, when we first moved here to Texas, uh, the company was paying our rent, so we're like, great, pay our rent. Um, and now they're not no longer, but we still want the location is very important, and we're looking for a house. We're looking.

1:30:43 Okay. So, sorry, that was just a squirrel I needed to chase. Okay. Um, continue, George. You got a train of thought.

1:30:50 Well, I'm I'm confused why you guys are even going into credit card debt with this level of income because you don't want to touch savings, but then you're going to pay 29% APR on on this $16,000.

1:31:01 Mhm. That feels Yeah. And we have quite a bit in savings. We How much have quite a bit in the stock market?

1:31:06 I'm not 100% sure. My husband has uh access to that account, but he has I think he put 30K into the market in the last couple months and he's got to have about 60 or 70K in his s in his high yield savings account.

1:31:17 Okay. So, I'm picking up on another issue here. I know you called about one thing, but part of the issue is you don't have the transparency you need to know what's actually going on. It sounds like you asked for that so you can make the budget, but you really do, Sydney, need to know all of these numbers. Um, so that you both can live in a state of reality with your money instead of guessing. It's hard to be in reality when you're guessing.

1:31:40 If one hand doesn't know what the other's doing, you're going to always have this problem and keep living in the cycle.

1:31:45 You both have to be on the same page with full accountability and transparency. So, that's step one. And then, do you have any other debts outside of the credit card? Any car payments, student loans? We have leases, but yeah, we have leases, but we don't intend to own a car.

1:32:01 What are they? What are the leases? So, I drive a 20 2025 U minivan, and that's 8.93 a month. Um, it's important to my husband that I'm in a reliable vehicle every couple years, and he drives a Range Rover for just under 3K a month.

1:32:17 Goodness gracious. So, let me go back to the minivan talk. Um, so basically what you're saying is that 99% of the population is not in a reliable vehicle if they don't switch it out every three. No, no, I didn't say that. She does.

1:32:33 Right. But my point is to call out the ridiculousness of that statement. And therefore, that means that you know it too. Plenty of people buy a car. Even if you bought a brand new car and you just drove it until, you know, I don't know, for 10 years until you whatever, that would be more reasonable than the statement that was said.

1:32:53 You guys are dropping four grand a month to rent cars and you're prepaying all the depreciation.

1:33:01 Exactly. So, that's part of the problem. I think that's a a a microcosm of a bigger problem here, which is you guys, you make great money and you want to show it off, right? There's some flaunting here. And the truth is, you could save up and buy these things outright and it would still be okay. But we haven't actually we don't have the discipline. We have the savings muscle there cuz he can shovel money away in other places, but you guys are totally okay taking on debt and payments because you can stomach it right now.

1:33:29 Yeah. I wonder why I wonder why there's the aversion because I agree 100% with George. You guys make good money. If you want nice things, have at it. You don't have a ton of debt. But leasing is crazy. You could have literally bought both of these vehicles outright and nobody would have said a word to you. We would have been like, "Great,

1:33:47 that's awesome." And it would have been yours and you wouldn't have been paying out outrageous interest and all these things on this. So, what else is there? There's the two leased cars. Anything else?

1:33:58 Um, nothing. Oh, uh, the only other significant uh is I have a lady that comes help me with my kids and with the cleaning.

1:34:04 Sure. And I'm when I put it into every dollar, I put in $2,000 a month. But between you and me, it's usually a little bit more because it's five o'clock and she just stays extra. And I pay her I more.

1:34:15 Okay. So call it three. So on the on the budget, here's what I think you need to do, Sydney. So when you make the first budget, it's a guess, right? It's I think it's this. I think it's that. I don't know if you've actually gone back and I I'm not sure how long you've been on a budget, but if I were you, I tonight, I would go back and download some old bank statements and really see here's what I actually spent. Add up what you spent on on food. Add up what you spent on, you know, Door Dash. Add up what you spent on housekeeping. Add up add up those actual numbers and plug them in every dollar.

1:34:47 Then you're going to have what's called an accurate budget of what you spend. Then you can decide what makes sense to cut back on. And that's honestly all you need to do is cut back on frivolous spending.

1:35:13 You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsay trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsay trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramsysolutions.com/insurance.

1:35:53 You're listening to the Ramsay Show. George, I want to come back real quick and talk about the last call that we got because it dawned on me, you know, they were renting their entire lifestyle. They were renting their home, renting their cars. And it's very hard to build wealth if you don't at some point lock in and make yourself a owner of the things that are in your life. We talk all the time about renting is okay uh for a certain period of time. Obviously, you rent and it buys you time to be able to buy. That's it's not throwing money down the drain or anything like that, but just be careful. uh things like leases, guy, leases are the most expensive way to operate a vehicle. It is like you said, George, you are renting a car. And if you're out here trying to do anything that we teach, if you have a lease, that needs to be the first thing that you look at. I mean,

1:36:48 well, and and the other problem is it's really hard to get out of these things.

1:36:52 Very hard. I mean, you got to get the buy. You have to have the entire amount in full to get out of a lease. Yes. You can't just like put extra on it and get out. That's the awful part. And good luck trying to get someone to take over your lease. You got to find someone who's real boneheaded to do that.

1:37:06 So, it's it really is one of the biggest traps people fall for. And who falls for it the most? High earners. Because they want to look good.

1:37:13 Yeah. And and they end up paying ridiculous. Obviously, leases don't have uh interest. The way we think of it is it's cost of capital

1:37:20 baked into your payment. You paying $3,000 a month. Yes. To look good driving the Range Rover. So, Here's the here's the key. Instead of looking wealthy, you want to actually be wealthy. And instead of just looking like you have nice things, actually have nice things by owning it outright. Building equity towards owning the home, paying cash for that car if you can actually afford it. But instead, we want to shortcut our way and just, well, we can have it right now. It's kind of like a petulant toddler who just like, I can't wait. I got to have it now or else I'm gonna throw my tantrum.

1:37:53 Yeah, I work I work really hard. I deserve it. Those are the three two most dangerous words in the English language. I deserve I deserve.

1:38:00 Oh yes, I write. I have a whole chapter on that and in and what no one tells you about money. So the point the moral of the story guys is exactly what George said. Don't be fake rich. Be real rich. Especially when you have real money to be real rich. All right, let's go to Kyle in Chicago, Illinois. What up, Kyle?

1:38:17 Hi. Uh, thanks for having me on the show. Uh my question today is uh should I cash out my whole life policy?

1:38:26 Short answer, yes. Let's talk about it though. Tell us tell us more about your situation.

1:38:32 I started it back uh December 2014. The total value to Yeah. You're behind that.

1:38:41 Who hated you enough to sell you that policy? Was it an old college buddy? No, it was my wife's cousin.

1:38:47 Oh, even worse. That's blood, man. That's dark stuff. On top of that, a year later, uh, I saw him at Christmas and he said, "Yeah, I quit that company because they were making me sell things I didn't believe in."

1:39:00 I hate to ask, but how much money have you poured into this thing since 2014? And how much is cash value at this point?

1:39:08 Okay. Uh, as of now, $69,000 I've paid in. Oh boy. And what's your cash value? 59,000.

1:39:16 Oh, brutal. Okay. So, you know, you need to surrender the policy. So, what's the what's the question behind the question?

1:39:25 Uh, so based off the chart that they sent me, I'm on year 12. Based off the chart, it looks like on year 15 would be my break even point.

1:39:38 Wow. So, you want to keep three more years. could uh well that's why I called in and asked you guys but

1:39:46 what's the death benefit? Uh half a million. Oh my god. Goodness gracious. You could have got that with term life for like pennies on the dollar.

1:39:56 Yeah. It wasn't until I started listening to Dave Ramsey that I knew I screwed up.

1:40:00 Yeah. Well, it's okay. We're not here to shame you. Like tons of people fall for this stuff. Do you want to shout out the name of the company that he left?

1:40:07 Uh I'd rather not. Okay. Just making sure. Just want to let you, you know, vent if you want to vent. All right. So, I would surrender the policy. What you're experiencing right now is some cost fallacy. You're like, "Well, I already put this much in. If I stick with it just a little bit longer, three more years of payments, I can break even." I would take the loss and go, "Hey, that sucked. It was a hard lesson to learn." The good news is you sound like a young upstanding guy with a great income. So, you're still going to be able to build wealth. So, chalk it up to a hard lesson that was learned here.

1:40:36 Okay. What do you make? Oh, go ahead. Mhm. Uh, so my wife and I make $160,000 a year.

1:40:42 Fantastic. Uh, what do you make personally? I make 80. Okay, great. So, you need a policy worth 10 to 12 times your annual income. So, you're already low on the death benefit even with this super expensive, crappy policy. So, I would number one get term life insurance in place first before you surrender the whole life policy

1:41:02 so that there's no lapse in life insurance. And so, Keep going. Uh the next part was about two years ago. I called and asked about uh cashing out the policy and they offered a cash value plus a term life. Like they would take the difference of what a term life would be.

1:41:26 I'm not doing any more business with this company. Okay? They can't be trusted to offer you any product.

1:41:32 It's been 20 years of pain. So I would contact Xander. That's who I have my term life insurance policy through. You can call them at 800356-4282 or jump on Xander.com and get a quote. You can actually do a lot of these online. Like for you, you need a let's say million-doll policy, 10 to 12 times your annual income. And you can do that with no medical exam. Do it completely online and you're in good shape. You sound healthy.

1:41:57 Well, thank you. And how old are you? Uh 36 years old. Okay. Same age as me. So likely your policy isn't going to be that much for a million dollar policy. It's going to be you're going to be like, "Wow, what a discount I just got after paying this whole life premium for 11 years."

1:42:12 And so it is worth it. You're going to get double the coverage for a fraction of the price you were paying.

1:42:16 You can turn around and invest that difference on your own in actual good, you know, mutual funds.

1:42:23 Likely 1 to 3% is what people see the return on their whole life policy. One to three. You could literally do better in a high yield savings account. That's truly what we're saying.

1:42:35 Yeah. So, step one, term life. Step two, surrender. And you'll get some cash value out of it. What will you get at the end of the day? Have you looked into it?

1:42:43 Uh, I'd get $60,000 if I cashed out today. I'd take that. Yeah, take that. Do you have any debt? Do you have any uh

1:42:52 I have uh mortgage only debt and it's $60,000 is what we owe. I love this. This is more than coincidence, my friend.

1:43:01 That feels like a divine appointment. So, you're telling me by like the end of next week, you could be completely debtree, house and everything, and not have a whole life policy.

1:43:12 Yeah. And I guess the next question is, my interest rate is only 2.1%. Who cares, dude? Do you What's your mortgage pay?

1:43:21 Pay off the house. Yes. Pay off the house. Uh 1,200 a month. Okay. You want to do some some fun math? Do you have do you have any money in retirement right now?

1:43:31 Yeah, me and my wife have $270,000 in retirement savings and I'll have a pension when I retire. I hope.

1:43:39 That's so awesome. Fantastic. If you did nothing, if you don't invest anything except that mortgage payment, you would have $5.3 million between the two of you at 62. If you just invest the 1,200 bucks, you don't do anything else.

1:43:51 I like that math. And so, you're already doing more than that. So, I'm not worried about, well, it's 2%. Who cares at this point, dude? You are on your way to building serious wealth. And you can't put the psychological piece into a spreadsheet. And it's so hard for me to explain because I'm the guy who paid off his low interest mortgage. And everyone's like, "Why would you do that?" And now it's becoming a trend. Everyone's like, "Well, I paid it off cuz I wanted the peace of mind. And if something happens, you don't have to worry about it. And if you lose income, you don't have to think about it. You just have more flexibility and options. Plus, if your house were paid off, if it were paid off, you would not be calling us saying, "Hey, I want to borrow $60,000 against my home so I can invest." You wouldn't.

1:44:28 Yeah. You wouldn't do that, would you? No. Right. So, I don't think the spread is worth it on keeping the mortgage. And uh I would just try to stomach the sunk cost fallacy and go, "Man, I got screwed by someone that I trusted by a company that essentially felt like a scam." And you learned your lesson. 36 is actually early. A lot of people

1:44:50 We've all done crap like this, Kyle. Just so you know. You got a lot of life ahead of you. You guys are going to build outstanding levels of wealth. I have no fear. So, call up Xander. Get on the website. Get that term life policy in place. For anyone that has anyone depending on them, you need term life. 10 to 12 times your annual income. A 15 to 20 year term is what makes sense for most people. It's so affordable knowing that your family is covered.

1:45:14 Yeah. And just remember, term life insurance, guys, it's not a baby step. It's not something you do once you hit some point. You do it immediately. I don't care if you're in baby step one. If folks are depending on your income, you need life insurance and you need it today.

1:45:47 How many of you are ready for a fresh start with money this year? Maybe you want to pay off debt or start saving for retirement. And those are great goals, but you're also probably thinking, "Well, sure, Rachel, but with what money? My budget is so tight as it is." Listen, I hear you, but you can do more with your money this year. And our Every Dollar Budget app helps you find margin to make it happen. This is such a game changer. Every Dollar digs into your money situation just like we do on the show. Then it finds extra money you could put towards your goals every month. And the average person is finding $3,15 in just 15 minutes. Think about what that could mean for your family.

1:46:24 Think about how much more peace you would have. Guys, you can make this an amazing year with money. Go download Every Dollar and start for free today. Thanks for listening to the Ramsey Show. Back to the phone lines we go. Phillip in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Phillip.

1:46:55 Hey guys, how are y'all? Thank you for taking my call and thank you to this call screener for doing the same thing.

1:47:02 Well, you bet. Christian is the best in the biz. Look at this. Shout out to Christian. They don't get enough love. They're really doing the work on the front lines.

1:47:09 Listen, we got to protect us. Yes, they you do. You do lots of work and we're grateful to everybody in the booth.

1:47:16 Hearts. How can we help, Philip? Well, guys, this is a hard question because there's probably some emotion involved in it. So, um, my wife and I are on our well, I'm on my second marriage, she's on our third. Um, and for 10 years, we've been living really happy and we're happy now. That's great. Um, we we took on just before co we bought a farmhouse. We paid $71,000 for it. We put 40 in it. We remodeled the whole thing. We put we put it on the market a year later and the realtor said, "No, you need to list it for 315." Okay. So, we walked away with 175K in profit, which was amazing.

1:48:03 We weren't expecting it. we were expecting maybe 50. So, uh, the market's been great to us. We've we've actually flipped one other home since then, and the one we're in, we've been for four years. We're thinking about selling it. Um, and, uh, the house is should sell for around 3:15. Uh, we got a $70,000 helock, a $4,000 personal line of credit, and a truck uh that I bought recently for uh 29,000 is what I owe on it. Um, the new house is on a golf course in a neighborhood that I always wanted to live in and it's it's beautiful. It's a French provincial home. My wife loves to decorate. I love to give her a canvas to decorate on. And uh, the house is listed at 724.

1:48:54 We're looking to make an offer on this house that won't exceed 600. And we believe that around 570 is where we would be. Uh, realistically

1:49:04 570 as far as a mortgage. Yes, sir. Okay. So, how much will you do you think you'll get from the proceeds of this house?

1:49:15 This one? Uh, the realtor uh he he he's saying around 315. Okay. Is it paid for?

1:49:24 Oh, yeah. We owe a $70,000 helock. Okay. So, that's all you owe. You don't have a a traditional mortgage on it. Correct. Yeah, we paid cash for it and then um we fixed it up with with more cash, but we've had to fix the basement, put in a new heating and air, and then we actually put in some hardwood floors, too.

1:49:42 Okay. So, after fees, will you walk away with like $300,000? You think? 315. You know, I figured I I figured if we if we sold it for 315, we paid off the delock, the personal line of credit in the truck, we'd have around 190 uh left over.

1:50:00 Okay. And that'll be your down payment for the next house. That's that's that's fees and everything. Yes.

1:50:07 And let's say you get this new house. You think you could get it for 600? I believe that.

1:50:13 You think they're going to take that low ball? Yeah, that's very low. Well, so it's a 4200 square foot house that was built in the 60s and it's not been remodeled at all. Um,

1:50:25 has it been on the market a long time? It's been on the market almost 4 months and um and and you know we're an hour north of Raleigh so it's not the Raleigh market. Um the median price per square foot is around 150

1:50:43 okay in Henderson. Um and it's on an acre of land. So it's you know it's a pretty average I think the median pretty well applies. Okay. So, the the short of it is, let's say you got it for 600 and you were able to put 200 down. So, it leaves you with a $400,000 mortgage

1:51:01 and what is your what's your monthly take-home pay as a household after tax but before other deductions?

1:51:08 Um, let's see. So, it's around 7,600 take-home. Um, but I also have a tax business uh that I've been running since ' 07. I do around 300 tax returns a year. So, you know, we we'll probably net around 30,000 from that and then I usually get about a $10,000 bonus every year.

1:51:32 Okay. As well. So, have you done the math on what the mortgage payment would be every month if you got a $400,000 mortgage with today's rates?

1:51:41 It's around the 25% mark. Okay. Is that a 30-year though, I'm guessing? Yeah, it has.

1:51:47 Yeah, that's a 30-year. That's not the 15 years it talked about. Okay. Well, our parameter is 15-year mortgage, no more than a quarter of your take-home pay, and you guys, you're you're close. You're on the line. I think you could get there with a little bit of patience uh and saving. You have a great income. And so, it might just be a little longer. Um and it's hard when you got your sight set on a very specific house. You're like, "This has to be it." It kind of gets you stareyed and causes you to make some bad decisions. But, I like the overall plan of selling the house, paying off all of your debt, having savings left over plus the down payment.

1:52:19 How much other savings do you have? What do you have? What others cash do you have?

1:52:24 So, we have our emergency fund. How much is that? Um, it's around $2,000. And um and then I've got a 401k at work, which can't touch that, you know.

1:52:36 Did you say your emergency fund is $2,000? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Um and then and that's the only non-retirement money you have,

1:52:48 correct? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I I gotta say I I I love this plan, but the only thing is I agree with George. I just don't think you're quite ready to make this move. You're talking about making a major move. Um you've got this debt. The debt will be cleared off. There's no extra money laying around anywhere. This has to for this to work. Everything has to fall perfectly. You have to get the house for the exact right amount. And what I can tell you is you're emotionally invested. And so if you don't get it for 600, I think you're going to make the offer anyway.

1:53:26 And I think I'm a little worried about that. Uh I'm I think that if they said 680, you'd take it. Or if they said 700, you'd take it. You see what I'm saying? And with no money saved,

1:53:38 yeah, I would want to. Your wife has already predecorated this house. That's the problem. And so that's what I'm worried about. And on a 15 year, you're looking at more like a $4,000 mortgage. And so that's the reality here is that it's over half of your take-home pay. And now there's pressure. Now you have to have this side business work out permanently.

1:53:57 And so I just don't want this house to go from blessing to burden real quick when you bid off a little more than you could chew

1:54:02 and when you only have 2,000 saved because then your next order of business really quick would be saving up 3 to six months of expenses because you don't have any saved.

1:54:10 So what if we cleaned up the debt with future income? Then we got a fully funded emergency fund. Then we could sell the house and use all that equity instead of throwing it towards the debt because you've already cleaned it up.

1:54:22 Absolutely. Now, that looks more like a Oh, this is going to be we're in this house for two more years. That's the the tough reality that the news you got to break to your wife.

1:54:33 Well, and and and we're both on the same page with this. We could go either way yet. Yes, she has it decorated, but you know what? The same decorations are in the house we're in right now. So, that's true. Um,

1:54:44 that's true. We're we're we're realistic about it and to be honest, we've been back and forth and back and forth. I've basically done a home inspection on it and everything else. I mean, I've sent an email to the realtor saying that I think it's $110 square foot house with all the repairs that need to be made and things because it's I got a $40,000 paved driveway that needs to be fixed.

1:55:05 Yeah. M. So yeah, you you're telling me what I thought you would tell me and what I've

1:55:11 kind of I guess in my heart felt anyway. So yeah. Well, you guys are doing some good things. We moved backwards by taking on all this debt. And so if you didn't have this debt, you could maybe stomach all this, but right now we got a mess to clean up. We need some savings in the bank. That's how you step into home ownership from a place of strength. It reminds me of a saying. This is an Arabic saying that I heard my mom say.

1:55:33 How's it go? which translates to the camel costs 1 cent and I don't have 1 cent which means I don't care how good of a deal it but Jade it's a great deal it's a once in a-lifetime opportunity and we don't have the money to make this make sense

1:55:50 I just love that it's a camel it's the perfect saying I know my last name is camel that's just how the old Arabic saying goes a lot of camels in the Middle East

1:56:01 yes I love it that's great sorry you ain't got a penny You can't buy it. I don't care if it's borderline free. You can't afford it. That's a hard lesson to learn.

1:56:10 That is a hard lesson. But those Middle Eastern folk, they know what they're talking about.

1:56:14 They're frugal. When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our getstarted assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com/start. Answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with ramseysolutions.com/start.

1:57:17 Thanks for hanging out with us. The scripture and quote of the day 1 Corinthians 9:24. Do you not know that in a race all runners run but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way to get the prize. Amelia Heheart said, "Decide whether or not the goal is worth the risks involved. If it is, stop worrying, man."

1:57:39 Oh boy, that's a that's a dark quote from Amelia. Oh, I I felt like it was on point cuz I'm thinking about the baby steps. I'm like, when we tell people the baby steps, the number one thing they're trying to assess is, is it going to be worth it? Like, is it going to be worth my sacrifice, my time, my effort, my struggle? And if you've already decided that it is going to be worth it, just stop worrying. Just stop. Otherwise, you're just spinning your wheels. But I guess

1:58:05 Amelia Airheart, I mean, you know, she's willing to fall out the sky. Yeah. Really?

1:58:12 Wow. All right. John in Las Vegas, Nevada. get us back on track, John. What's going on?

1:58:19 Hi. Uh my uh my daughter is in her sophomore year of college and uh a couple years back we made a a deal that if she did well in school, we'd we'd pay for uh her housing expenses and ability to go to college if she got a scholarship. Uh she came throwing her in and we've been doing that. However, she keeps making decisions that kind of go against what we're advising her to do. And my question is I I feel like I'm we might be hurting her more than we're helping her by trying to send her to college and not holding her to to an accountability standpoint of being, you know, growing up.

1:58:54 What types of things are is she doing that's um not what you want. So, a while back I I made it well known like tattoos were were not a thing that uh that we approved and and it was one of those deals where we said, "Listen, you know, if you want to get a tattoo, that's on you, but um not while you know, we're paying for your things cuz then I feel like I'm subsidizing it." And so, um you know, she she's come home with numerous tattoos and and then uh I the last one she came home with, she called me ahead of time knowing that I'd be upset about it. Uh but when uh and I was glad that she was honest with me.

1:59:30 However, she knows that we don't approve of that right now at her age. How old is she?

1:59:36 The fact that you know uh she's uh just about to turn 20. So, you know, I I it's her body. She can do whatever she wants. tell her. I I just don't feel comfortable with her getting tattoos at that young of an age,

1:59:49 you know, where that's kind of a permanent thing for a young You said you said two opposing things in one sentence. You said it's her body, she can do whatever she wants, and then you turned around and said, "But actually, she can't."

2:00:02 Um, so I think you have to figure out which one of it it is at for her age. And then the other question I have just practically is she using the money that you're giving her for tattoos?

2:00:16 Well, so that's the part. So we we pay for her uh her housing and then we also pay for her tuition.

2:00:23 Okay. And uh so she she made a decision to do a trip last year and uh and didn't uh plan for it correctly and she wound up spending like she needed help on that trip. So part of that is we lowered her her monthly expenses that she gets and so she's covering that for her job and then um you know she uh she that and we're basically letting that be the payment. So we're pay giving her less for housing and she covers the difference.

2:00:52 Is it an apartment or a campus housing? It's a it's an apartment/housing uh campus housing. It's kind of a blend. Uh, so it was like $1,000 a month and and now we downed it down to 800 so she can pay back over a year the amount of money that we gave her to to um to live while she was doing her her trip uh to Italy.

2:01:14 And so, you know, we're proud of her cuz she paid for the trip for Italy. However, you know, one of the the deals with doing that was listen, we're not paying we're not financing that.

2:01:24 How much over how much over did she go on that trip to Italy? Like how much did you need to bail her out?

2:01:31 Three grand. Yeah, that's a lot. Um yeah, and we were on top of it, we were on a trip in Europe, so we spent a whole bunch of money for our, you know, our trip that we were super excited about doing for us and then we're having to come out of pocket. So like, you know, it kind of put us in a bad position.

2:01:47 How are you guys covering her tuition and housing? Is this from a college savings account or just cash flow or or normal savings?

2:01:53 No, that that would have been that would have been a lot smarter when I was younger, but you know, we're we're doing very well. Well, financially between my wife and I, we make about 220,000 a year.

2:02:01 Awesome. So, you just How clear was it that tattoos equals we're cutting you off? Or was this just a separate preference? Like, hey, I don't want you getting tattoos.

2:02:12 It was separate. But when she got in the argument with me about it, I said, listen, we're we're paying for you to go to school, and all that is money that you're not having to spend to go to school, right? So, we're we're trying to set her up as much as possible. And and my view on it is I I don't believe in making permanent, you know, markings on your body until you're until you're fiscally responsible for yourself. And then if you want to do that, you can do that. But also maybe be a little bit older so you can make wise choices instead of a, you know, 19, 20 year old, you know, putting things in their body that don't necessarily

2:02:46 This is a 20-year-old decision. And, you know, it is a preference. There's no moral failure here. I personally, if I'm dad, I get you being upset. I get the disrespect, but I would not cut off her college funding. If you want to tie it to something, I would tie it to grades, attendance, legal behavior, you got to finish in four years, all of that. But this is just a separate issue, and now we're trying to hold weaponize her college funding to get her to stop. What you can say is, hey, any future tattoos needs to come out of your money from your job. We're going to send this money directly to the landlord, directly to the school. We're not just going to fund it in your bank account.

2:03:22 Yeah. Yeah. So, and and we haven't been doing that. So, we we've been purposely having her pay everything out of her account. We fund it and then she makes the payments to those things. However, like I said, she she just quit her job

2:03:35 without having another one lined up and she doesn't seem to be in a hurry to get another job and she's having her boyfriend pay for everything. And we're just we're just going like, "Hey, that's not a wise that's not wise decision-m. You don't you don't do things like that without having other things lined up, you know?" And

2:03:50 Yeah. So, we're we're just concerned that she's not she's not making uh we the whole thing we're doing is trying to develop her to learn how to handle money and make good decisions and we feel like often we're really bankrolling her bad decisions and that's what we're worried about.

2:04:08 I kind of hear two things at play and I'm going to caveat this John by saying my kid I almost wish Dave was on cuz my kids are young. They're five and seven. I've not been in your shoes. So, I'm literally just listening and what I'm doing is thinking back to when I was in college. So, that's where this is based from. Just so you know, I'm kind of hearing two things go on. I'm kind of hearing a uh a a concern about how she's handling her money, but I'm also kind of hearing a a power struggle of she's getting older. She's making choices. You don't agree with them, which you have the right to not agree with them, but there's also this part of she's just going to make choices. And some of them you're just going to have to let her make, I think. Um, let's deal with the money part. Money part, I might be inclined to say, you know what, you had the luxury of having this kind of off-campus hybrid. I think that we're

2:05:01 not going to do that because you haven't been able to kind of hold up your end of the bargain. So, you can do the normal campus housing and if you get a job, we're open to you doing the hybrid thing where you have the apartment, but you'll have to pay for it. You could totally do that. Plenty of kids go to school and they live in onampus housing and they don't get the the fluff. You know what I'm saying? So, you could totally do that. I would probably distance it from this whole tattoo thing so it did not seem like a retaliatory response to the tattoos cuz I actually do think that that's very separate. But if you do feel like, hey, we're bankrolling her to the extent to which she's not doing a part-time job or some of the things that we talked about her doing from the beginning, I think that that's a fair thing. Now, the other side of it, let's talk about kind of like the tattoos, personal choices with the

2:05:51 boyfriend. That is another area that I'll be honest, I think it could be one. I don't know. This is just me speaking from being a a an 18-year-old girl with a dad who was trying to help me with I feel like if you get too smothering, it could almost have the opposite effect.

2:06:12 So I Yeah, absolutely. Do you know what I mean? So it's almost you probably experienced that already. It's like the more you lean in, the more she leans away and now she wants to rebel as as a because she doesn't know how to even handle that and it feels like you're controlling her. She's a grown woman now. And so th they are two separate issues. And if you want to not feel like you're enabling, you can fund the direct thing you're trying to fund and no more. And now it's on her. And if boyfriend covers the bills, that's a problem he's got to deal with.

2:06:39 And when she needs to get a job cuz she can't buy the thing she wants to buy, she might go into debt. And you hate that cuz like we said, you're not going to go into debt. But at the end of the day, putting her in crippling student loan debt and having her hate you forever, I don't think is the right next step.

2:06:53 Best of luck, man. That's a tough one. It is a tough one. Hey, thanks for hanging out with us on the Ramsey Show. If you're wondering where you are on the baby steps, make sure to go to ramseyolutions.com to find out. And as always, there's only one way to ultimate financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Clarity With Money Brings Peace At Every Stage Of Life | January 23, 2026"?

George Kamel (Host), Jade Warne (Guest), Mark (Guest), Scott (Host), Mandy (Guest), Phillip (Guest), John (Guest).

What is "Clarity With Money Brings Peace At Every Stage Of Life | January 23, 2026" about?

The discussion addresses the complexities of managing finances in a marriage where income disparities exist, focusing on the question of whether one spouse should incur debt to reimburse the other for shared expenses. It explores the emotional relief associated with financial clarity and mutual understanding, emphasizing the importance of effective communication and joint decision-making in…

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How long is "Clarity With Money Brings Peace At Every Stage Of Life | January 23, 2026"?

The episode runs 2 h 7 min; the transcript is about 24,612 words in 450 timestamped sections.

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