Transcript

Getting Out of Debt Requires Radical Change | February 10, 2026

From The Ramsey Show · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 2 h 8 min · 23,542 words · 415 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Getting Out of Debt Requires Radical Change | February 10, 2026", an episode of The Ramsey Show published February 10, 2026 (2 h 8 min, about 23,542 words). It mentions 12 people, works and ideas, including John Deloney, Jade Warshaw, Family Counseling Services, Love, Texas, University of Michigan.

What this episode is about

The main topic revolves around the challenges of overcoming debt and the necessary radical changes needed to achieve financial stability. Key points include a caller's struggle with maintaining a $10,000 credit card debt linked to alcohol use, the importance of addressing underlying issues, and the conversation emphasizes actionable steps, such as cutting up credit cards and developing a safety net for emergencies.

Key takeaways

  • Credit card debt and addiction often intertwine; cutting one can help cut the other, but it's no easy task.
  • Greg's $10k debt came from good intentions gone awry—each purchase an attempt to mask life's challenges.
  • A high income doesn’t guarantee financial safety; without a budget, even $90k can dissolve like cotton candy.
  • Moving in with a fiancé while managing addiction? That’s like trying to bake while the kitchen's on fire.
  • Emergency funds trump credit cards; use that $1,500 allowance wisely for tires, not for a debt cycle.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 15:00: John Deloney, Jade Warshaw, Every Dollar, Delete Me
  2. – 30:00: Xander Insurance
  3. – 45:00: Every Dollar, Fair Winds Credit Union
  4. – 1:00:00: Fair Winds Credit Union, John Deloney
  5. – 1:15:00: Christian Healthcare Ministries, Every Dollar
  6. – 1:30:00: John Deloney, Fair Winds Credit Union, University of Michigan
  7. – 2:00:00: Every Dollar, Love, Texas, Family Counseling Services, Grand Rapids, Michigan

Notable quotes from "Getting Out of Debt Requires Radical Change | February 10, 2026"

  • Transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Deloney in the house taking…
    about Jade Warshaw · at
  • It's like holding matches over an open flame and deciding, you know what? I'm gonna pick up a gas can, too, while I'm standing here. You're just gonna make everything way more complex.
    about John Deloney · at
  • Delete Me's privacy experts find your personal info on these shady data broker sites. They get it deleted, and they keep it gone. It's like having a digital cleanup crew that scrubs your online.
    about Delete Me · at
  • Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or.
    about Xander Insurance · at
  • If you're looking for a more budget friendly way to save on medical costs and stay true to your values, Christian Healthcare Ministries is a great option to think about. CHM is not health.
    about Christian Healthcare Ministries · at
  • Yeah, how can we help? so my 23-year-old son will be graduating from the University of Michigan in May and he has racked up $96,000 in student debt. he did have a scholarship that.
    about University of Michigan · at
  • Why do you keep getting laid off of work? Are you not showing up on time? I There's construction going like I was just in Leach a couple of weeks ago.
    about Love, Texas · at
  • Okay. All right. So, here's my call out. Number one, when you get off this call, I want you to call over to Family Counseling Services. I think they're off Avenue Q over there in Levik.
    about Family Counseling Services · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • John Deloney — Person · Co-host · 4 mentions · first at
    Co-host providing counseling-oriented guidance on addiction, marriage conflict, trauma, and behavior change as they relate to money decisions.
  • Jade Warshaw — Person · Host / Co-host · 2 mentions · first at
    Primary on-mic host in this segment, steering calls and giving Ramsey-style budgeting/debt payoff tactics alongside relationship-aware coaching.
  • Warren G — Person · Referenced musician (quoted for emphasis) · 1 mention · first at
    Referenced once as a cultural quote (“Hold up”) to punctuate a caller’s marriage/permission conflict about buying a car for parents.
    As the great Warren G once said, Hold up. Like y'all paid off y'all's student loan debt.

Companies & orgs

Places & events

  • Love, Texas — Place · Setting · 3 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as the location of a caller and his wife.
  • Grand Rapids, Michigan — Place · Setting · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as the location of a caller.
    What happens to that basket. All right, I'm with you, Thomas. I'm with you. All right, Ann is in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Sponsors

  • Every Dollar — Product · Sponsor · 8 mentions · first at
    Budgeting app promoted as a tool to help manage finances and get out of debt.
    Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.
  • Delete Me — Product · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at
    Service promoted to help remove personal information from data broker sites.
  • Fair Winds Credit Union — Company · Sponsor · 5 mentions · first at
    Credit union mentioned as the studio where the podcast is recorded.
    Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay…
  • Christian Healthcare Ministries — Company · Sponsor · 3 mentions · first at
    Health cost sharing ministry promoted as an alternative to traditional health insurance.
  • Xander Insurance — Company · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at
    Insurance company promoted for term life insurance services.

Full transcript with timestamps

Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Deloney in the house taking calls about your life and your money. We're going straight to the phone lines. You know the deal. We have Greg in Phoenix, Arizona. What's going on, Greg?

Hi. Uh, yes, this is Greg and I have about $10,000 in credit card debt. Um, I keep making payments on it and it ends up going right back up to 10,000 uh due to my drinking.

Oh no. Yikes, man. What are you doing to get a handle on your drinking, brother? Uh, I'm getting back into the AA programs and uh church programs, but yeah, getting back into it.

Huh. Are you ready to commit all in? Yes, I am. Yeah. So, how can we help you today, man?

Well, I originally reached out to see if there was any other advice besides cutting up my credit card. Um, so anything besides that would be appreciative.

Is it Is it just Do you not want to do that? No, I do. I just I I have a little bit of nerves about it when it comes to emergencies and things like that. I got to I have to use my truck a lot for work. So, I mean, I'm going to have to change the tires on it pretty soon. Um, I know I'm going to need a credit card for that.

Have you Oh, sorry. Sorry, J. No, go ahead. I was going to say if we give you a financial solution for that for for the things that you're concerned about, is that all that's keeping you?

What do you mean all that's keeping me? If I if you leave this call today and I give you a plan for why you don't have to fear tires on the truck or all of those things that you're kind of feeling like, hey, I need the credit card to fall back on, would that be enough for you then to to cut it up?

Yes, for sure. Okay. All right. So, have you've been to AA before? Yes. What would they tell you if you went into AA and they said, "Are you ready?" And you said, "Yes, except I still need to hang out with these guys. I still need to go to this bar once a week and I still need to do something else." Would they have any confidence that you were going to be able to change what what what alcohol is serving to cover up for you?

No, they wouldn't. Okay. So the long as long as you keep this backup plan on you at all times 247 365 the chances of you using this backup plan are 100%.

Okay. The path forward is really say never again. And when you walk into your first AA meeting it has to be never again. And when it comes to I'm tired of making as much money as I do and every month I don't even know where it goes. I just look up and I'm back in the whole 10 grand until you decide I'm done with this and follow the plan Jade's going to lay out for you. And by the way, getting sober, it's not easy. It's hard. Cost you a lot and it's worth it. And getting out of debt is hard. It cost you a lot. And dude, the the path is freedom and peace, man. It's worth everything.

You just got to say, "I'm either in or I'm out." I'm in. So, I'm ready to hear it.

It's awesome. That's really good. Yeah, we're proud of you. Um, so let's talk about the money side of this. So, you've got tires on the truck coming up. It sounds like basically what's happened is you've kind of got in a paycheck to paycheck cycle. Yeah.

Yeah. Yes. Okay. So, what are you bringing in every month? What what comes what comes into your hands every single month?

I just started a job three months ago. I'm making 75K plus commission. Um, I do have a 1,500 a month car allowance, so it's kind of more like 90K.

Okay, good. Plus commission. Okay, so you've got a car allowance of like a high amount. That's crazy. So, how much are you actually bringing home in your check? Like what's what are you writing on your budget? Uh what I'm bringing home is approximately after taxes and everything about five grand a month right now.

Okay. And is it just you or do you have family? Well, I'm engaged and I'm about to move in with my fiance um within a couple of months um in May also. So that's another reason why I'm kind of holding on to the credit card a little bit.

Okay. So I want to challenge that. I don't want to bite off too much uh to chew in this little bit of time, but first things first is you getting yourself together.

Amen. Um and that is on the addiction side and on the financial side. Adding a whole other person to this right now and moving in together. I I'm sorry, John. I'm getting into your territory, but that feels that feels like not the right move at this point in time, right? You got a lot on your plate.

It's like holding matches over an open flame and deciding, you know what? I'm gonna pick up a gas can, too, while I'm standing here. You're just gonna make everything way more complex.

Yeah. And it's not to say you can't keep dating this lady or whatever, but go accelerating to that point just feels like it doesn't feel like the right move. Um, so you've got good money coming in. You've got a great allowance here. Now, the only thing is we got to get this into a budget because there's something obviously before it was the addiction that was spending all your money, but right now something else is eating your lunch on a month-to-month basis. How much are you paying every every month for month for rent?

Uh $1300. Okay. So, that's not the problem. Uh what is your car payment? Um I'm $750 away from having it completely paid off.

That a boy. Way to go. Amazing. Okay. Yeah. So, and once it's paid off, do you still get the $1,500 allowance for your car?

Yes, I do. Okay. So, why can't we use that for tires? Can you get tires for 1,500 bucks?

Yes. Ding, ding, ding. Yeah, this is awesome. So, is that I mean, is that it? Is that just the solution? Do we need to talk about anything else?

Uh, I mean, I just I know that y'all say it's a bad idea with the moving in and whatnot, but I mean, this has been the plan for a few months now, so it's going to be hard to reverse that.

Not really. It's going to require some tough conversations and I have a sense I mean I I don't know the lady but you just called here and you laid some pretty heavy things on on the table and it made perfect sense to me. It it was like oh logical makes sense. So I got to believe that if you talk to her and you say hey here's what I'm going through today. It doesn't make sense for me to to what John's point says. I'm standing in front of a fire. I don't want to add you and and and make this complex for both you and I.

Or let me flip it around. If if your fiance was a friend of mine, was she she was my sister and my daughter, I would tell her, "Hey, continue to love this guy. You you've decided you want to spend the rest of your life with him, but he's got to go get well before before you fully anchor in." And he's got to commit to looking himself in the mirror and saying, "I'm worth sobby. I'm worth this amazing job opportunity I've got. I'm worth cleaning up and being disciplined with my finances, committing to something and and and and not wavering.

And then you can feel free to anchor into that concrete. That's what that's what I would tell her. And my guess is you would tell if that was your sister or like you know your friend, you'd tell them the same thing. And so it's just it's just a matter of man, what you need right now is is a simple plan, a simple path. And the more complexity you add to this thing, the more variables you throw in there, like I'm just going to keep the car just in case, the more opportunities you have to trip and fall.

Yeah, that's really good. Yeah. Nobody's telling you not to stay engaged, not to potentially marry this woman. Um, but just do it the right way. And before you go, we're going to make sure Christian picks up and gets you every dollar cuz you need it. So you can see where all of your money, all that $5,000 plus that car allowance, see where it's going every month. And promise me today you'll cut up the credit cards and buy the tires in cash.

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Hey, how's it going? Doing good. How can we help today? Hey, I'm calling in because uh I'm in a unique situation here where my wife and I, praise God, just paid off, you know, all of our debt, over $150,000 worth of debt.

Yeah. Yeah. And uh yeah, it feels really good. We did it in uh you know, a couple years time, so that feels good. We're freshly married. You know, we got on board paying off debt even before the wedding and you know, just so we're on the same page, you know, even during dating. So, we've been we've been doing everything right, trying to follow the baby steps. Now we're ready to replenish our emergency fund and baby step number two. The problem is is my wife kind of just dropped this bomb on me today that she is with with or without my permission going to get her parents a used car.

And with or without your permission. Please tell me how the tell me how that was said.

Well, so here's the thing. She it it's with or without my permission because she she upfront paid a lot of uh you know my student loans off and we ended up paying a bulk of it off together.

Okay. And uh and so but you know I'm sure you already owe her is what she's saying.

Uh oh. As the great Warren G once said, "Hold up." Like y'all paid off y'all's student loan debt.

That's how I see it. I I I see it as like, you know, we already have a combined, you know, checking, combined savings, combined high yield in uh high yield savings account. We have combined everything finances. And so I don't have a problem with her wanting to do something nice for her parents. I love them and I want to do that for them, too.

But the thing I have hold up on is the precedent that's set of, hey, whether you are on board for this or not, this is on my heart and I'm going to do it, you know, no matter what.

All right, so let let me flip this around real quick. Are you a person who yes can hear that conversation from her and honor it and and figure out ways to to connect with her on it?

Uh what do you mean by that? Meaning sometimes um we make bold statements like that like I'm going with or without you because the person we've been trying to communicate with is is stuck in concrete. And so anytime somebody says something that just sounds out of character or it just sounds wild,

like you don't have permission, like you all are mom and dad and some sort of weird marriage, like anytime somebody says that, I always, this just a personal thing, I go to the mirror and and see, have I made it hard for that person to connect with me.

Yeah, I I I hear your question. I don't think so. I'm only I'm only saying that because the way I responded to that was,

hey, I would love to do that for them and I support you. Let's get it on our financial timeline so we can figure out where we can do that for them.

Understood. And she decided to hone in on the And she decided to hone in on the fact of, you know, she needs my approval or something and she's saying that she doesn't need it because she paid off all this debt.

Okay. And I just don't feel like that's us on the same page. So that tells me and John strike me strike me out of the conversation. at any point. But what this is telling me is there was some part of her while that process was happening that she was doing it but she didn't really want to do it or she was feeling a type of way and never voiced it and now it's kind of like resentment is there which you got to nip that in the bud with the quickness.

Yes. It it scorekeeping will destroy relationships. Oh man. Now can I add something else to the conversation that it could be but I don't think it is.

And again John come get me if I'm if I'm out here. Um, I do think in marriage there's times where we're trying to accomplish a greater good. Um, or we're trying to go in the direction that we say we want to go and that we value. And one spouse will make a concession, right, in order to do so. And then there are seasons where another spouse makes more of a concession to do so. And and there can be times where you're like, I feel like I'm making a lot of concessions and I want to feel like I'm being met also in in the way of we're both sacrificing, right? There's a part of that and I I don't think that this is that, but I also just wanted to put space for that to be there. And if it is that, she has communicated it in a way that makes it seem like it's not that.

In a bad way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, hey, here here's your path forward, brother. It's to back completely out of the money conversation for a minute. Okay. So, so money fights are almost always, we've been saying this for years, money fights are almost always simply lights on the dashboard for a a bigger issue under the hood. And so, here's the framework I want you to use walking into this. Are you ready?

I want you to say, "Hey, um, I want to have a pretty heavy conversation with you. Is is now a good time or is this evening a good time? If she says yes, great. The next question is, the story I've made up is okay, that's how I want you to approach her. The story I've made up is you resent having helped me pay off these student loans. The story I'm choosing to make up is I thought we were together and it turns out we're not. The story I'm choosing to make up is you now feel like I owe you that somehow I'm less than. Somehow you're just going to make these decisions like a like a cowboy or a cowgirl. And then the next one is here's how I feel about that. That makes me feel small. Makes me feel like we're not on the same team.

And give her a chance to respond to that. Because what you're talking about there is a you're being humble and saying, "I'm making up a story here because you you you don't know what is going on in her heart and mind, but and you're telling her exactly how you feel about it and you're giving her space to say actually that's not happening at all." Or giving her a space to say, "You know what? I said that wrong." Or giving her space to say, "Yeah, I've been harboring a lot of resentment." And if that's the case, y'all got to deal with that now because it will burn your marriage to the ground.

Yeah. Gotcha. Mhm. If you come at her using you statements, you said this, you did this, she's going to wall up and fight you back because that's the word you is often a declaration of war when you're mad, when you're frustrated using

and I always try and frame things when I have a, you know, whenever we have like a disagreement or discussion. I always try and isolate the behavior and not the person. That way I'm not saying you are this thing. I'm saying this behavior made me feel a certain way.

Okay? I want you to go one step further. just start the whole conversation with with the the letter I. I made this story up about what just happened and I feel this kind of way about it.

Okay. And because even isolating the behavior, everybody, it's kind of a workaround to an accusation, right?

Yeah. But you saying the word I, you taking ownership, this is this is this is what I'm making up and this is how I feel about this thing. Gives her an opportunity. It's an invitation to respond. And if she says screw you, if she says I don't care, she says I'm I've been doing all this for you and now I'm going to finally do something for myself. Y'all gota y'all got to get on the same page with that deal.

And can I just add a piece to that? If if it is, I will almost cuz I'm listening to this and there's part of me that's going, you guys are newlyweds. I'm actually really glad this is coming up now instead of later. And I might add that in and say if I if I'm right, if I'm feeling this and it's accurate, just hear me say I'm I'm glad that this is happening now than later because this is something I want to work out

because if this is how she rolls is going to show up in the home you buy. It's going to show up the kids you have. It's going to show up in the jobs you do or don't take. It's going to show up the rest of your life. And so getting back on the same page now, giving her an opportunity to explain, here's what I meant. Here's what I was feeling. here's what's going on inside her spirit. Man, that's a that's a blessing and a gift. And like Jade said, every couple I've ever met goes through things like this. And the fact that you are you're having this happen early on and you have the courage to face it head on. Man, that's awesome.

That's really good. So, you're going to do it? You'll have the conversation. Yeah, I'm going to have the conversation. I I think it's also not even just about the car thing. I think it's more about what you said earlier about scorekeeping because

my stu my student loan debt that was paid off gets brought up in a myriad of conversations, not just this one.

Okay. Yeah. It's it's always like my behavior or her behavior is justified or mine's dis, you know, disregarded because,

you know, the student loan debt once existed like keeps being brought up. Uh it was $120,000 of student loan debt.

Yeah. Um Yeah, that's tough. That's tough. It's it's definitely something to work out and you might need you might need some mediation. Like you might need a counselor to help you be able to speak about it in a way that's like not harmful, but you're making progress and not just circling around it. It sounds like maybe she is.

And both things could be true here, right? She signed up for to marry a guy. It's tough

with 120 grand. And that's super frustrating. It's tough. Both are true. She's allowed to have her feelings hurt and she's allowed to be annoyed and allowed to be frustrated. And also, she made a commitment. You and I ride or die till death do its part. And so both things can be true. You can feel all kind of ways, but you got to be emotionally mature and go do the next right thing.

That's right. That's right. Statistics show that half of Americans don't have enough life insurance or they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something. Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

That's a gut punch. And oh, you're telling me. And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them, too. And they don't know what to do next.

Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And, you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family man.

Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

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All right, let's get back to the phone lines where we have John who's in Reno, Nevada, which by the way, whenever I think of Reno, Nevada, I think of the movie Sister Act. It will always be that way. I'm sorry, John. How can we help today?

Hey guys, it's a pleasure to be on the phone with you. How you how you doing today?

Doing good. How can we help? Um, good. Um, so my wife and I are in around $86,000 in debt. Um, and I'm considering um moving us to the hood.

What does that mean? Tell me more. Not to the hood. What does that mean? Yeah. What?

Well, it's it's not the area I'm considering uh we're considering is it's not the best. It's not the worst. It's certainly It's certainly uh not what we're used to though. Sorry, I'm still I'm still processing

that. Well, I mean, I'm sorry. If you're trying to pay off $86,000 of debt, very little, if anything, of your old life should look like what you're going through.

That's true. Yeah, that's fair. So, if you say um I don't know where I come from, that can be kind of a derogatory term. Like, if if you're telling me, hey, we're going to move to a way cheaper place to live. Um, maybe bikes and a car or two in the yard or whatever. But it's a safe place to live. We're going to do our life and we're going to pay off our debts. I would say do it today.

Oh, okay. If you say, "I'm going to put me and my family in harm's way. We're going to be unsafe." Then I would say that's not wise.

Okay, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah, I'm I'm with John. Going to a lower uh lowerc cost apartment. Great. uh trading in your car for a beater, great. Um if the hood is a place where there's certain people, then we might have issue. But if you're just like, "Hey, I'm just really trying to cut down my lifestyle," then by all means,

get on it, dude. Get on it. Jump on it. All right. Thank you. And by the way, if you say the words or think the words, this isn't how it used to be, you're probably on the right track. We used to be able to go out to eat and now we're not anymore. Good. We used to drive really fancy cars with insane payments every month and we're not anymore. Good. We used to have a house that we couldn't afford or live in a super fancy apartment and we could barely make rent and now we're living at a way smaller place in a in kind of a dive apartment for a season. Good. Good.

And good. Okay. You got to make radical changes, man. But also you got to keep yourself safe.

Okay. Yeah. Tell us. Yeah. Tell us more. I'm okay. Um, well, um, right now we our rent is about 2500. Um, I I also have two We also have two kids.

I was going to say I hear him back there. Yeah. Yeah, we got two kids. Um, I work nights um overnight as a as a truck driver. I go to Sacramento and back, which is about 138 miles away.

Mhm. Um, so from about I don't know if I should put my hours I'm gone, but I'm I'm gone for about I'm gone for about 12 to 14 hours.

What do you bring in every month doing that? Um, I bring in 6,900. Okay. And does your wife bring in any I know she's taking care of the kids, but does she bring any income in?

Yeah, she brings in about $1,000 a month. Okay. So, on that income, I mean, you're almost at $8,000 bucks a month. You should be able to float. I mean, it's it's a little over, but the $2,500 rent, it's not the thing that's 100% breaking you, but I mean, how much cheaper do you think you could go and still be in an environment that's, you know, good for you guys and safe for you and whatever?

Well, I I'm going to be honest. I think that the $900 is is safe. Um, I mean, there there's there's things that are like 1,300 um and they're like in areas that are similar. Um, and I kind of figured like, hey, if I'm gonna go 1300 and be in a similar area, might as well just go down to the cheapest I can find.

Yeah, why not? It's but one bedroom. Yeah. And and and dude, just know make a deal with you and your wife. This is for a short season. My wife and I sold our house and moved into a residence hall into a college dorm

with a with a toddler for But we did it for one year and it it completely transformed our life.

Yeah. Yeah, if if your wife is on board and it's it's accomplishing, it's ticking all the boxes. Yeah, why not? You guys are young, now's the time to do it. Um, again, it's not it's not the be all end all. It's not forever, but yeah, why not?

But here here's a way to burn a hole through your marriage, brother. If you're paying 2500 bucks now and you find a place for a thousand and that $1,500 is not piling on whatever else y'all can come up with to pay off this debt and it just slowly goes away and you know Door Dash orders and you come home with some cool I don't know speakers or I don't know whatever you come home with something that's going to end up being a big problem. So if y'all make this commitment make it for a season and be really diligent about getting this debt knocked out.

Yeah, that's that's all you can do. Uh, thank you for the call. That's a good one. All right, let's go to Justin who's in Houston, Texas. Hey, what's up, Justin?

Not too much. How are y'all doing today? We're doing good. How can we help? I just really have a a question about um my wife and I both work. We just had our third child, so three girls for us. And was just really looking for some advice or how to how to decide if my wife should continue to work or if she should be a stay-at-home mom. Um, she recently got a new job where she's making pretty good money um, working fully remote, but she's struggling with the, uh, you know, should she should she stay at home or should she keep working?

What does she want to do? She doesn't know. She's torn. I think part of the challenge is experience-wise, she was a school teacher for a long time. She's gotten into some good work and and this job is really through a couple of connections and I I think she recognizes that and it's going to be hard to replicate if she were to take a break and and be a mom for a couple years. But I think her heart's telling her that might be the direction she wants to go.

Yeah. Is there any financial weight of this that we should consider? Uh the the struggle we have right now, I mean, she she makes, like I said, good money. Um it's comparing the daycare cost to that and and really money-wise, it's not really an issue. Uh if you have

You don't need the money. We don't need the money. No. Okay. Um you know, there's no wrong or right answer on this, right? This is completely a values-based question. Um, I would be looking at a way to do this. Um, I have found that when I'm making really major decisions like this, what really helps me is to figure out all the variables that are actually weighing in on my decision that I'm not even aware of. So, that's why I asked, is there a financial thing that could be somewhere in the back of her mind? Is there some expectation she might be feeling from you that's somewhere in the back of her mind? Is there any other variables to this other than, what a great opportunity, right? Sure. Yeah. And that makes a lot of sense. And I think um you know, again, my view is I think she's always worked her whole life. So I think part of her is is feeling like she'd be giving up some independence perhaps.

Or being fully retenty relying on me to take care of the family. But I think we also recognize that

salary wise I'm 3 to 4x her. So it's not really an issue at this point, right? Yeah. I I've I've watched my wife um I I call it the And Jade, tell me if you resonate with this. I call it the um the American mother guilt factory. There's not really a way to win,

right? And I've watched my wife who was a gangster research professor, a small business owner, and then a full-time mom, and then a teacher

navigate these identities. And that's the part as her husband I way underestimated is the the weight of I am a professional versus I am a stay-at-home and I should always feeling like I should be doing something else. The way we've navigated this in our house, Jade, is is we always make short-term decisions. Meaning, let's try this for a season.

You can always you can always you can always change. And if this job doesn't work out, she's proven to herself there are people who will hire me and I do bring value. And so I'm going to go all in. I'm going to go full commit to staying at home for 6 months or a year and then we're going to we're going to um circle back up and see if this is still the right path or I'm going to quit this job. Go I mean I'm going to stay in this job full-time and I'm going to do that for 6 months or a year and see how we are all how our house is operating, how I feel, how you feel, how we're working together. But I think that the the the trap feels like either decision is a forever decision and it's just not.

Yeah, I think that's exactly how she feels is whatever is any of the either decision is going to be a permanent and I will work on that one.

Yeah. Well, and and so do the next right decision for this for this season. Yeah, you've got time. I I love that idea. And there's also maybe there's a world where she works part-time and she's a little bit doing, you know, wearing the the boss hat and a little bit wearing the mom hat.

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Jade. I want to rally America together to wish you a happy birthday. Happy birthday.

Thank you. I appreciate it. 21 is a big one. You can drink now. It's the whole thing.

It's John. I mean, come on. Just tell them the truth. I'm 35. I've been 26. I've been 35 for about seven years now. And it's a great age.

That's awesome. I would not I would have put money on 28 or younger. So, well done.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Well, after having talked about that, let's talk about something even more troubling, which is tax season. Okay, it doesn't have to be troubling, though. If you have a simple tax situation, like if you haven't had any major life changes or big investments, you could really just use Ramsay Smart Tax. Ramsey Smart Tax is affordable and it keeps filing simple. Plus, it has built-in support in case you need a little help. Filing early means getting the best deals and you get the tax stress off your shoulders. So, as soon as you get all your tax documents, go on and go to ramiesolutions.com/smarttax and start filing immediately. Okay, let's go to the phone lines. We've got Christine in Newark, New Jersey. Hi, Christine.

Hi. Thank you for taking my call. You're welcome. How can we help today? Oh gosh. So I'm

one of those, huh? Trying to figure out. Yeah. Yes, it is definitely one of those.

Hey, do me a favor. Talk directly into your phone for me, Christine. Oh, okay. Sorry. Perfect. Thank you. Is it a little bit better? Okay,

go for Um, so I I winded up I I put myself into a lot of debt and I was trying to be proactive in the situation and I joined one of these like debt relief programs where you know you pay monthly and then there's a settlement fee or whatever. Um, and being in that process um I actually helped my ex-boyfriend uh get a car. He got that car repo. So now I'm accumulating more debt outside of the what I already have in my creditors um debt relief program. My question is is it best for me to maybe just file for bankruptcy because I'm still getting calls from the other creditors who are in my debt relief program um like just you know trying to negotiate or sending me notifications about whatever you know the the balances that are owed

and I now I'm accumulating even more debt outside with the repo. Yeah. Um, and I it's it's uncontrollable for me right now. I'm paying like toward maybe some like $366 towards his debt relief program um to three creditors and I'm only paying one of the creditors at this point and I'm just thinking like it's going to take me years to try to get all of them settled. Um, and I don't want to keep on just investing in something that's just going to like I don't know that's not helpful at the end. So, I wasn't sure what to do. Well, yeah, that's very stressful. If you're if you're making many deep breaths right now, I I understand that and you should keep doing that.

Um, so let me just make sure I understand the repo car. Your name was on the repo car.

Yes, it is. Was it rolled into the debt relief or it's just separate and they're just coming after you for the difference?

Separate. Exactly. Yeah, it was it was not part of the debt relief. It's separate and they're coming after me, too.

Understood. What is uh Let me talk about the repo car first. Uh, what is the deficit that they're coming at after you for?

Uh, 14,000. Oh, girlfriend. Okay. They've already auctioned the car off or is it?

Yep. It's already It's already taken. Yeah. I can't get it. Yeah. Okay. And there You don't know where your ex-boyfriend is?

Um, I I do and I don't. I I try to no contact type of situation. So, no contact. Okay. Okay. So, I'm just going to hit you with something that just really really really sucks. And I think you know this

that is it's on you girl. Um unfortunately when you sign when you cosign with somebody you're you're just as liable for the debt. And

exactly you could say if you said I'm not going to pay it. You're just going to feel the the dings and the dings and the dings and the dings on your credit. Um and I feel like it's more so about it dinging up your piece because they're calling you, right? So you're going to have to add this to your snowball. And I hate to tell you that it is a lesson learned the hard way.

Sorry. So what's your total debt load that you're trying to get relief from? Um so there's three creditors. One is 11,000. Um another is like 7 8,000 and then another is 6,000.

Okay. So, in that in that ex relationship, like I pretty much one was a loan um and then two are credit cards that I kind of maxed out just so I can leave the situation and get an apartment on my own. So,

I maxed out. So, what do you make a year? Um a year. Well, I know I bring home maybe like 38 39 a month. Okay.

Like um and then there's overtime and things like that. So with overtime, what does it look like on a on a month where you do some good overtime?

You know what? That's you know what, to be honest, that's actually I want to say that's including the overtime. So

Okay. Um Yeah. Okay. And then just I always like to know where people's housing fits in that equation because if you're paying too much for your housing, it it throws this whole thing off kilter. So what are you paying? What are you paying for housing?

Um so right now I'm in an apartment complex and it's like $18.92. Okay. That's what's eating your lunch.

Oh, Christine, that's a that's half your income. Mhm. Mhm. So, I'm paying I'm literally like living like I'm I'm so like I'm living like paycheck to paycheck, but on top of that, I'm I'm in one of those like stupid app situations where like you can borrow from your next paycheck from my next Yeah, I know. I'm I'm telling you. I'm This is what I've done to myself. So, I know I know this is that's why. Sorry.

Okay. We're both on your side. Yeah, we're on your side. But you got to stop. You are you with us?

Yeah, I'm here. Okay. All right. So, here's what When's your lease up? Um, it would be next June. Like, June of next year.

Is it a onebedroom or a two? It's It's actually a threebedroom. I have three uh three kids with me. So, um and three kids.

Yeah. Three kids. Okay. So, what I try to do is I'd go to the uh leasing office and I'd say, "Hey, um cuz I'm pretty sure you can do this. If you just say, "Hey, I just want to switch apartments in in the complex. This one I'm having a hard this one's just too much for me. I want to go down to a twobedroom or I want to go down to a, you know, a onebedroom and maybe I put whatever you have to do. I put myself on the on the foldout couch and I put two bedrooms in one two kids in one room and if there's a baby, I put the baby in the crib next to me." Right? That's what you need to do ASAP because

okay with three kids I will hate myself saying you need to work more right that that's feels very impossible. Um I'm sure there's something you can do but I feel like the bigger way that you can make an impact is on that line item on your budget and and basically to cut it down to I don't know, 1,100 somewhere in that range.

Um do you see what I'm saying? No. Oh yeah, I understand. Yeah, I see. Right. And it's going to feel terrible. You're going to feel like I Oh, I I have three kids. I'm making them share a room. I'm uprooting their life. I'm making them I'm making them I'm making them You're going to make them understand what it looks like to

write wrongs and make things right. And that's the lesson that you're going to be teaching them doing this. So tell yourself that when you start beating yourself up.

Jane, would you recommend she quit paying on this on this debt relief nonsense?

Yeah, let's go to that. That's super. Yeah. Debt relief done. We're done. It's a scam.

The reason that they're calling you, the reason they're calling you is because the way those places work is they say, "Pay us the money. We're going to hold it in a pool basically and we're going to wait until these creditors get desperate and they're ready to make a deal." That's why they're calling you

cuz they haven't been paid. And so you've probably paid a bunch into a pool. How much have you paid in? Um, so I've been in this debt relief for maybe like two years now.

Oh my gosh. And nothing's been paid off. And nothing's been paid off because obvious well the the rest of it was like the the larger amount creditor is the one that offered first and I accepted it because I didn't know at the time, you know, what to do. So yeah. So that's the $11,000 one and it's like I I haven't made a dent in it. So

So we're getting out of that today. I I if I were you, I'd call him up and say, "I don't want to keep doing this anymore. What's going to happen?" And just make sure you read through what the contracts said. So that you can come into the conversation and say, "Hey, uh, I want to I want to get out of this. I realize this is what I must pay or this is the penalty cuz there's going to be some penalty fee." And just realize this was not the way out. There's a couple of things, Christine, that you're going to pay what we call here stupid tax, which is it's really a I didn't know tax and you're going to feel that and it's going to be in way of I spent years paying a debt relief program to get nowhere and unfortunately I co-signed on a loan. But what you're going to find is doing this on your own, you are going to go so much further faster. Christian's going to pick up. We're going to set you up with

every dollar and there's free coaching on there. I want you to call the number to get a couple of minutes of free coaching so you can figure out your next right steps and call us back anytime you need us. We we'll we'll we'll be here to help you.

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Attorney advertising. Results may vary and no specific outcome is guaranteed. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. We're going back to the phone lines where we have Ethan who is in my favorite place, Miami, Florida. What's going on, Ethan?

Hey guys, how are you guys doing? Doing great. How can we help today? So, uh, I'm try to keep it brief for you guys. I I more or less have put myself in a hole over the last 6 months or so. Um, made some dumb decisions and have locked myself in a uh, financial bind. I recently moved to Miami for work back in October and it was about a $10,000 move. And to make it happen, I had to borrow money across some different avenues to make the move. Um, my rent is right at $3,000 a month. And late last year, I actually bought my wife a new car. She needed a car. Um, and the payment for that is around

$900 a month. Good. God almighty. That's a lot of money. Yeah, it's it's pretty bad.

What's the full What's the full balance of the vehicle? We owe about 50,000 on it.

Wow. Okay. And we're actually underwater. I've already looked in to try to or I'm sorry, I used the wrong phrase. We're upside down on it. Um,

what could you get? What's it saying for private sale? About 30. Oh, is it an is it a EV?

It is a 2025 uh Grand Cherokee. Um, that's So, how much do you make it a month, dude? How much you bring home?

Um, my salary is right at 6,000 a month. What about your wife? Um, my wife is a stay-at-home mom.

How in the world did you figure a $50,000 vehicle? Um my my wife has very good credit and the dealer who sold it to us use my income as the household income using her her credit.

So, oh boy. Oh boy. Oh boy. All right, let's do this. Let's don't Let's don't Let's don't blame anybody.

Let's say I'm not I made an irresponsible intentions. Yes, it's fully on me. I take full responsibility. How many kids y'all have?

We have one son. Okay. He is eight months. This is a hard truth that I'm putting on the table. Y'all have put yourself in a position where I don't believe you can afford right now to uphold this value that you're holding, which is we want her to stay at home with her kid for right now. Y'all have a huge mess that can be solved in a year and two years of everybody pitching in and going full boore.

Okay. But bro, I mean, you're underwater. Is that Is that it? Is it Is it just the I mean, when I say just, is there anything to add to the pile of the $10,000 you borrowed plus the the 20,000 you're upside down? Is there more debt? Um I I believe that that's about it. The 10,000 spread across couple different avenues. Um

are there people like family members? Did you borrow from family members? Yes. Okay. Okay. So, the good news is that's probably I mean the way the debt snowball works, it's advantageous for the family members that you borrowed from and it's also advantageous for you because uh whenever there's people, you know, you've you've loaned money to family, it's just very very sticky. And I want to clean that up for you. Um here's here's the thing. One making $100,000 a year is not what it once was. And what happens is you get this salary and you're like, "Yes, I'm making six figures." and and and and it feels like it's going to be away

and then you're like I made it to the pinnacle. I John Deloney I remember that was the goal for forever if you can make $100,000. Yes. And then it's like if I do that I can get the place I want. I can get the car I want. I can live the life. It was like that was the unlock.

It's not. It's just not the way the world is, how expensive stuff is. And don't add a little bit of debt to it, right? that that money dwindles very quickly, which is what you're experiencing. Am I right, Ethan?

Um, yes. That's right. To add to the situation, it's I am like paycheck to paycheck right now.

It's because of your rent, buddy. It's cuz your rent, Ethan, is 50% of your take-home pay. There is no extra there. There's nothing left.

I understand. You could be a very reasonable spender, but when your rent is 50% of your take-home pay, everything is tight. So, first things first, um, first things first is we need to find a cheaper spot. Now, you're in Miami. Is there a way to go a little bit north? Can we go, you know, to an area that's less expensive? Can you go Do you see what I'm saying?

I I believe so. The the whole issue with moving is just the lease. um to break the lease.

How much is it going to be? Two months. It's two months to break the lease. But think about that. If you keep this around for the rest of the year that you owe it, think about how much you're going to be throwing away. If you can find a place uh that you guys can, you have a eight-month-old, they take up this much space. So, if you can find a place that's a one-bedroom and the baby's crib or, you know, their stuff is in your your room or you put the baby in the living room, this is the time. We had a caller earlier. This is the time to do the sacrifice. The kids are young.

You guys are young. You get in a one-bedroom. You spend half the amount. You see what I'm saying? You go a little bit north. Maybe you have a little bit more of a commute, but it it it could be worth it to you. Um, what kind of work did you move to Miami to do?

So, I'm active duty military. Okay. Um, is there an allowance of some sort? I'm sorry.

Do you get any allowance, housing allowance or anything like that? Yeah. Yeah. So, our BAH is 3,200 and our rent is 29 and some change. So, like within the BAH range, we're actually, you know, within the budget, but

but is that part of the 6K or is that an addition too? That's part of the six. So, it doesn't matter at that point. Yeah. You're underneath your housing allowance, but your overall monthly income it's still more than 50. Therefore, yeah, what I said still rings true. So, the key here is we got to cut the rent in half at the least.

Can you go live on base for a year? We don't have that option um on this base. Okay.

Yeah. And then what I am going to do and and I hate to say this, but yeah, I'm going to go down to the credit union. Uh, if your wife's credit's still good, before you know, before you start missing payments, go down there and say, "We want a loan. We need a loan for the difference here. We need a loan for $20,000." And what's better? The only thing better than paying off $50,000 is paying off 20,000. Okay? So, instead of having a $50,000 loan, now you have a $20,000 loan. And now that frees up a couple more hundred bucks um in your budget every single month.

$900. Yeah. Do you see how that works? Minus the $20,000. Jeez, I I see how it looks.

Yeah. So, that's what I want you to do, Ethan. Uh none of this is going to be uh pretty nor fun, okay? This is going to be something that you're going to look back on, you know, 15 years from now and go, "Oh my gosh, remember that apartment? Oh my gosh, remember when we got that loan?" And by the way, get the loan for 25 so that you can get, you know, have a little $5,000 car that you drive. Okay? That's the way this works.

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That's fair winds.org. insured by the NCUA. All right, back to the phone lines where we have Claire who's in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Hi, Claire. How can we help today?

Hello. Yeah. So, I have a question about how to start a conversation with uh my family about some student loans. Um my mom helped me take out uh some parent plus loans. Uh they are all under her name and I went to college about $36,000 worth uh with a verbal agreement from me that I would help her uh pay them back. Um, but now that it is time for me to pay them back because I am out of college and they are coming due, um, she is requesting the $36,000 payment in full, but when I look back on my tuition bills, she received $17,000 in refunds that she never put back towards the loans. So, I'm trying to figure out how to start that conversation of I am not paying you $36,000. I am only going to pay the amount that I used rather than what was.

Yeah. So, it's I don't know. It's been interesting and I don't know how to start that conversation.

Okay. So, can can we cut right to the chase here? Yeah. Um, your mom and man, I hate to say this. This one hurts to say. Your mom is deceiving you. She's lying to you.

Yes. And I just have a personal rule that if I'm dealing with somebody who lacks integrity, A, I'm going to make sure I don't lose my character in the process. And B, I'm going to be very clear about what I will and will not do. And I will see that through because because trying to preserve the relationship, she's already burned it to the ground. She's trying to extort you for $17,000 more dollars.

Wild. Yeah. Right. That's that's madness. A a parent of integrity. If if I did this with my kid, I would say, "Hey, dude. I actually spent 17 grand on my own. You owe me this much money."

It's a lot. It's not a number that you forgot. Like, "Oh, I forgot I did that."

I honestly honestly I I would I would print the bill out and go sit with her and say, "This is what was paid for my bill. I don't know how much you ended up taking out or how much you had deposited into your accounts. Where's the other $17,000?

Yeah. Yeah, she did let me um log into her like parent plus loan portal so I can see how much she really did take out cuz for me and all of my sisters, but I had a feeling because then that would have made my schooling um a total of $64,000 for three years and I only went to a state school. So that price didn't really make sense. Plus, I was like instate. So, I did some research and now I have to figure out how to have this conversation.

Now, you got math on your side. You have bills and math on your side. I think it's a pretty straightforward conversation when it comes to what you owe. I think it's a harder conversation about what or her choice to lie to you has done to your relationship.

I'm trying to find any I'm trying to find any reason this might be different. Is there any way that like during that did she did she buy you a car during that time?

She pay your car insurance and your food and and and rent. Um so I lived at home. Uh so no. Um

there was one year I did move out and lived off campus with some roommates, but I paid my rent and I also like paid my cell phone bill to her. Okay.

Um she did buy a plan for me. You're breaking up on us. Yeah, you're cutting out on us.

Okay. Oh, there you go. So, you lived at home, you paid rent, but there was one time when what?

A meal plan. A meal plan. Yeah, it was like $2,000. And I figured if it became a super big issue, I would offer to pay that back, too.

I'd add that. Listen, if she meal plan is part of school, I might add that back in and and say say that say, "Hey, I looked it up. Here's what I found." you know, slide or the paper like they do when they when you make a negotiation and say, "Now, I do know that there was the one semester where you paid paid for my meal plan. I know that that was $2,000. I don't know if that's part of this. I don't see it." Uh, you know, try to have some goodwill there, I think. But I agree with what John said, man. This is dirty.

Yeah. I hate this for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. I I would commit walking in the door to what your boundaries are going to be on this one

and play it as straight as possible and the best you can. This is going to be hard cuz it's your it's your freaking mom.

It's your mother. But keep your wits about you and keep your integrity and keep your character and don't yell, don't scream, don't make accusations. Just be very clear. And luckily for you, this is all this is all tracked, right? You can see what she took out. You can actually probably go to the college and get the the bill that was transferred the day bills were paid. I mean, you can do some a little bit of forensic accounting here and figure out exactly what she paid and exactly what she kept for herself.

Wow. Shouldn't have to be like that. Jade, I' I've heard this over and over and over again working with college students.

I feel like we are in the era of the parent plus loan. I feel like we are getting so many calls about that. I don't know if it just happened, you know, in that decade.

It's not the era, it's the bills are coming due before that era. Oh my gosh. And I just Yeah. I mean, obviously, if you sign a parent plus loan, the parent is the one on the loan. And usually what's gone arai here is there is some sort of verbal agreement. Either you will pay or you won't pay and then the time passes and inevitably someone forgot.

Either someone forgot or they change it. If you're in a position where you need to borrow a ton of so much money that you need to get a full Stafford loan and get a parent plus loan,

then you're in a financial situation that's that's already challenging. And when they write you a blank check and they're like, "Hey, we're going to send you 20 and the bill is only 15." It takes another level of integrity, another level of discipline to not spend that five.

Oh yeah. Because it feels like it just got free deposited. That's a problem for future us. We'll deal with it later. Yeah.

And my daughter's going to be rich one day. you can cover it and that's not the agreement we made.

It's not. It's not. Plus, it's a fraudulent use of student loan money to be honest with you. But it is

100% it is. Yes. So, but this Jade, I cannot tell you how often I heard this story from college students. Parents would take out loans in their children's name and use that money to pay for stuff around the house or whatever. Yes.

And it just became it became an offbook stimulus program in a way. Yeah. because you get the you get the amount of money needed for that that's allotted to you for the semester the seme so say you get uh I don't know I'm making this up say you get $7,000 but you only needed 5,000 the quote refund 2,000 bucks just sitting there it's like well I may as well take it

it's real hard to not man that money back what's the moral of the story children to to check your bill and make sure that YOUR PARENTS AREN'T JACKING YOU is that I

I think anytime you go into an agreement with somebody you care about. Yeah. And there is like financial borrowing in between you two, just expect that that relationship's going to get sideways at some point.

It's going to um and the best thing you can do um if you are listening and you're like, "Oh crap, I think I have parent plus loans and I think that this could end up being me." Try to jump on like don't wait. Don't wait. Find like talk to that person today and say, "What's the deal with this?" If you're thinking about taking out those types of loans, of course, I'm going to tell you, don't do it. Please just stop in the name of love. Um, and I know it's a tough conversation because let's take a minute and talk about this. College is expensive. Uh, it's filled with expectations uh on the student end and the parent end, right? How many parents get so much pride over saying, "My kid goes to this school." Yeah.

Yes. And then there's the student who is probably in one of the most emotional periods of their life making this decision and it's like this is where all my friends are going and don't you want me to have this college experience?

Colleges tune the cell the sales cycle to a 18year-old 17 18year-old's feelings.

Yes. Right. You hear college students say this was the one. What? Right. Like they're choosing that parents like all right I got to mortgage my soul to because they found the one. Right. It's madness. It's madness.

It's madness. And and then there's the element of uh I guess I'm going to call it some sort of shame because what we're finding is a lot of parents are taking out parent plus loans, not telling the student that they did it, not telling them that that's the way that this whole thing is being funded and then it comes back to bite in the butt later. So guys, our teaching on this is so solid and so clear. If you can go to college, pay cash, okay? And I know that that sounds what Jade, you've lost your mind. No, the way to do it is you have to start talking about it before you're 17. You have to start talking about it very very early. Setting that expectation. Yes, you're going to school if it suits you because maybe college life doesn't even suit you for the career that you want.

That's another conversation. But make sure it said, "Hey, you don't have a college fund. We may not have a 529. We expect you to work part-time or we expect that you'll go to a community college." Whatever that is. Parents, please have that conversation. There's no shame in that game. It is a privilege if you are able to pay for kids college and it is a privilege for both the parent and the student.

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Hey, how you guys doing? What's up, brother? Hey, I uh was about a month ago or three weeks ago, I was an unfortunate victim of a crime that has totaled my wife's car.

Oh. Um yeah, it's unfortunate. Wrong place, wrong time. Um and my question for you is we were about to start baby step six and now we're looking at options for a new car and insurance is going to give me about $25,000 for the car that was totaled. Um, and my question to you is, is this an emergency fund situation where if we have some emergency fund buildup, we could put some of that toward a new car, or does that not fall into the bucket of emergency fund uses?

Well, what was your wife's car worth? Usually, they'll give you the the value. They did. It was worth Yeah, it's worth 25K. So, why wouldn't you not just use the 25

Why wouldn't you just use the 25,000 to buy a $25,000 car and and and move on and continue with baby step six?

Well, I figured that's what you're going to say. The whole thing has been very emotional for us and my wife really loved her car and so we're dealing with this. You know, I could certainly go get a minivan for a sixperson family for $25,000 easily. Um,

but it's not necessarily what she wants to drive and I know that's probably not what you guys want to hear. what happened,

but it's just been uh so she was going on a retreat with some of her work uh ladies and the night before she said, "Hey, could you go fill up my car with gas? Would you mind?" I said, "Absolutely not." And while I was out, uh I decided I was going to get her a car wash as well. And at the car wash, I got held up at gunpoint for the car.

Oh, wow. And they took they took off. Did they wreck it or something? Uh yeah, I won't bore you with all the details, but it is completely totaled.

Man, I'm sorry, dude. That's terrifying. That's traumatic. Yeah, it was. But we're working through it and God is good and there's a plan on all this. I'm just trying to

make the best decision moving forward. Yeah, I this like if we were sitting together and we had an hour just to hang out and have some nachos, I would say this a lot kinder and I would take a lot longer to say this. Okay, so it's going to sound pretty abrupt. Is that fair? No, that's that's fair.

All right. Um, this is one of those moments where the line, not by your hand, but in your lap, really rings true. You trying to be a good husband ended up in a wrong place, wrong time, and somebody truly victimized you and your family.

Sure. And you have a mathematical reality to deal with today. Yeah. Right. And so I it's your emergency fund, right? I mean, it's it is what it is. What I don't want you to do is to say, "Hey, this bad thing happened to us, and since we really want something else, this is kind of our past to get the thing we really want." Because what you're going to find is that momentary hooray, I got this awesome car is going to come at the expense of well now we got to stop everything and build up our emergency fund or we're going to have to make a car payment and you're going to find yourself lower than you were before.

Yeah, it's going to feel like a short. I know. It seems like the only way there is is backward, you know, and that's not what we want to do. We don't want another car payment. Um, but I don't Yeah, you're just trying to I'm try I think I'm trying to make the situation easier than it is probably.

No, I think you're trying I think you're continuing to try to be a noble and good husband and a good man and try to take away that terrifying reality from your wife that sometimes awful things happen.

Yeah. And doing an emotional thing next, which is I'll go buy you whatever car you want. It's going to be awesome and we're going to try to smooth over this pain with a not really wise purchase on a depreciating asset isn't the isn't the path forward, right? Really grieving this moment is the path forward. Going slow is the path forward.

Um, yeah, I agree. And how how much money do you make a year brother? Uh, between the two of us, it's we're around 250.

Okay. So, how in all reality if, and this is going to sound nutty, but if you just held off, could y'all one car it for a month and just squirrel away everything you got?

Probably. Well, it's it is a good question. Probably not. We just um we have four little kids, so we're somewhere between dropping them at school and my wife works a few days a week and I work every day of the week.

And so, it's just the reality is has been a little bit challenging the last three weeks. We've actually been uh borrowing a car that my dad has available because my mom actually recently passed away. So,

okay, there's just all sorts of stuff going on. Yeah, it sounds like a whole whole lot of going on. My my recommendation to everybody when some when a lot of life is happening at the same time is to make as few big decisions as possible.

Yeah. Until the smoke clears. If you could just look at your wife and say, "Hey, we're going to white knuckle this thing for 60 days. 6. That's it. two months and we're going to drive this borrowed car and we're going to save up another 10 or 15 grand and then we're going to go get whatever car you want. Man, that's going to feel totally different.

Yeah, I agree. Maybe more fulfilling eventually. I promise you it will be. But it will be super painful right now. It'll feel like just getting kicked again while you're down right?

Yeah. How much is in your emergency fund? Oh, about 30,000. Okay. Yeah. I I I think you're going to I mean, how much would you pull out of there?

I don't know. Any Excuse me. Anything similar to what we had is probably going to be after tax around 50K would be my guess.

Well, you're the car she was driving. How old was it? Because it wasn't worth 50K at the time of the accident.

No, no, no. It was 20 It was 2016, but it has very low miles on it. 2016. And this won't surprise you, but I put uh new tires on it two days prior.

Of course you did. Yeah. again, you're a good husband trying to take care of your family.

I mean, can you afford on your salary to have a $50,000 car? Yes, you can. Do you have the cash today to buy to have a $50,000 car? Uh, not unless you have another stash of liquid cash somewhere aside from your, you know, emergency fund. Um, I think that you would feel

if you took your your $30,000 emergency fund down to even 10 to do this, I think that would make you feel I I don't think you would like the way that felt at night. Yeah, I agree.

Now with four little kids. Yeah. And even if you if you took it in half and brought it down to 15, I still don't I mean, I could be wrong, John, but I don't think you would like the way that feels.

Yeah. I mean, we've really liked not having debt. Exactly. Exactly. You know, it's hard. It's hard to go backwards.

Yeah. Which is why it's such a conundrum in my mind. Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing. If you buy something used, quite used for 25,000 and you get something quite nice but quite used, you really the the the vehicle's really already taken the hit. And in in 6 months or in 8 months when you've saved up some more, you could sell that vehicle really for probably what you paid for it and put another 10 or 15 with it and get what you really want. You could do that.

Yeah, I agree. And can I give you can I give you a psychological trick? Whenever something happens to us like this, um, we feel like someone, whether it's the cosmos, whether it's the thief, whether it's the whatever, somebody owes us. And that might be right in this sense, in this justice sense, but it's not true in stone cold feet on the concrete reality. And so the more you're you live in this that's not fair. This isn't I don't like this. This shouldn't be this way. The more you're you're you're divorcing yourself from the reality in front of you. The other thing I want you to imagine if this is the first big thing like this that would happen in your life. This sounds harsh to say, but the world you had, I would even go as far to say the marriage you had is over. Now y'all are living in a post. Somebody put a gun to your head and stole your car reality.

And so saying, "Okay, we're now moving forward. What do we want this world to look like? Do we want to go backwards financially? Do we want to live in debt? Do we want to really grieve what happened and recognize we need to keep our head on a swivel? Life's a little bit different now and we're going to make the next right move with the 25,000 bucks we got?" Like, stop trying to say it used to be or we just want to get back to or it's not fair. Man, the path forward is this happened. What are we going to do next? What's the next right move for us?

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Today's question comes from Elise in New Jersey. Elise writes, "My partner and I have a blended family, including four children. When we discussed buying our home, we agreed that we would put both of our names on the title and mortgage. Bills are split between us. All right. Um, bills are split between us with him paying more. After we moved in together, I found out that he has wealth that he had not disclosed to me. He was awarded a million dollars from a lawsuit. He draws on his disability, doesn't work, and makes more money than I do. I wake up before dawn, go to work, and take care of 90% of the housework and kids responsibilities. I'm livid finding out that he has such a large sum while I'm living paycheck to paycheck. He buys himself $5,000 gifts whenever he wants and tells me like it's nothing. Should I let my anger go or let my partner go?

Child, that's wild. John, listen. Listen. Every once in a while, I ask myself like, how long is this this job going to last? And then I read this and I'm like, we are going to be employed forever,

man. This is um Okay. Yeah. So, she she says like quote, she says um uh she says, "I'm livid. While I'm living paycheck to paycheck, he buys this." So, I don't think she's mad. It's almost like, let's be clear about what the problem is. The problem is not that he's spending some of the money. The problem is not that he's telling you that he's spending the money. problem is that he lied and never told you this money was there to begin with.

He's deceitful. He lied to her. He rubs her nose in it. And he's not a participant in the lifeblood of that home.

Not at all. And I for one I mean progress is possible, John. You know, everybody everybody can change like Rocky Balboa said, but I for right now I'd be like, "Oh my gosh, I'm I'm dodging a bullet by by by finding this out while we're still engaged." They're still engaged, right? Yeah.

It doesn't even say. It just says her and her partner. So, I'm assuming they're not married. Otherwise, I hope they would have put spouse. But, um,

they did buy a house together and they have they blended their kids. So, Elise, I Yes. Oh, Lord. I think you have dodged a bullet like the Matrix.

Yeah. I should I let my anger go or let my partner go is the ending question. I rarely say this this directly, but I think this is one that I say bye, Felicia. I'm out.

I I would I mean, if you wanted to, it's easy for us to say on this end. If you wanted to um go further in on this and be like, listen, this is so not okay with me. only way that we can go forward is to have like some intense intense some type of counseling to try to repair this. Sure.

Well, the relationship you thought you had is over. It's not even the same person

squared out, right? So now it is do I want to rebuild a life with a person and what would that look like? And I'm going to give him a path back to rearning trust and it would be from not reearning because he never had it. It's going to start from square one.

Like we got to tell the truth with each other. We have to support each other. We're not going to Venmo each other for light bills and water bills. We're going to our money is going to go in one pot and we are going to pay our bills.

Okay, this is madness. It's madness, but uh it's madness. But and uh at least I'm kind of pivoting from you, but going to the larger conversation here. Here's the problem with this whole deal. Because Elise, you're not the first one who's called in with a situation where kind of the story changed, right? I was with this person once we made this leap over here. Now I'm seeing the real them. Right? Here's what happens. And John, this is really your avenue. So I'm kind of just I'm about to give you the assist here. And I want you to like Ally, you dump it. Like break the backboard. The problem when you enter into a relationship and there's no real commitment and you say okay to everything. Okay. Uh you want to combine our families and we're not married. Okay. Uh you want to have sex and we're not married. Okay. You want to move in and we're not married. Okay. buy a house together.

You want to buy a house together and we're not married. Okay. Do you want to keep our our money separate even though the rest of our life is fully together? Okay. You are setting in many ways you are setting yourself up to be a sitting duck for this sort of thing because this person can say, "Hey, we never actually committed.

There was never actually a thing where I said allin. Therefore, why do I have to?"

Well, it let's let's go even further. This guy would say, "Hey, as she wrote, we agreed. We agree. Exactly.

I'm doing exactly what we agreed to. Exactly. And is it nefarious? Sounds like it is. Yeah. He's a scumbag, but he's doing exactly what we all agreed to.

Right. And that's the thing. That's why the rules there's a there's a reason that there's order to things because when there's order to things, it helps things be in order.

Well, and it helps it helps darkness come to light. Yeah. It helps um a conversation. I'm not moving in with you until we're married. I'm not going to um buy a home with you until both of us have are sitting with a mortgage lender and both of us have our financial lives laid out in front of both of us until we both commit to like outside of those and you just leave pockets of secrets even the ability to have secrets. Right.

Yes. So yes. So the moral is, and this is not just to women, this is to men, require commitment. Like, go require it. You're not going to just give people access to these major meaningful parts of your life that have the ability to really screw you if if they if they mess with you. Don't do it unless you're getting full commitment. Require it. I don't just I my pastor used to say this, you know, we we talk about commitment and and it's really an all or nothing deal that like that is what it is. like you're in, you fully commit. You're like locked in. And what's not okay? It's never okay for somebody to say, "Uh, yes, I'm committed to you, but on Sunday I do my thing." Like, like on Sunday, I go out. That's my day. You know, I'm everything but that, right? And it's the same thing with marriage. You can't be like, "Hey, I'm committed to you. We could put our kids together. We can um, you know, buy a house together, but when

it comes to my money, that's, you know, that's the day I do my thing. Like, that's my son." Right? Do you see what I'm saying? require it. You're you're worth that. Like somebody should say, "I commit to you and I will take everything and I will show you my everything." Like that is that is the best part of marriage is having full transparency. And if somebody's not willing to give you that, cut them loose. And I Yes. Amen. And amen. And I I I just um it's it's amazing this is coming up. Um, I was just reading a um a pre-copy of my friend Sean Johnston and her husband Andrew East wrote a book on this commitment. She's an Olympic athlete. He was a pro football player.

And the whole premise of the book is so powerful and that is we've lied to ourselves and told us our culture has told us that you always have to leave doors open. You always have to keep your options open. You always have to keep an exit strategy. You always have to uh everything is always on the table for negotiation. And what both of them, this book is so powerful actually freedom is not in endless choices and endless opportunities. That's a recipe for anxiety and chaos and being paralyzed. Right? There's tons of of of psychological research about that.

The power, the freedom you're chasing is actually in going all in and going through the difficult conversations, through the difficult negotiations. I want to stay up late. I want to go to bed early. I want to keep my money. Well, I don't feel safe. going through that and coming out on the other side anchored into something bigger than yourself. That is where we all want to be. We're all just chasing this lie of man, you always got to have a you always got to have a crack in the door because you never know. You got to keep what's yours and don't let them have everything. And what that does is it keeps you from ever having anything.

Wow. Wow. I'm That's something to think about. That is um there's a lot in that. But what you said reminded me of it's kind of like part of this is when you say okay to less than what you were saying

you're avoiding the conflict of it. You're avoiding the conflict and you're making a statement about your own perceived value of your worth.

Yes. But going back Yes. And going back to the conflict part I I read a long time ago. I can't remember what it was, but it was talking about how our greatest relationships, right? When you see it as concentric circles and they go out out out, the the the core of our relationships, the ones that are in the very middle, uh that's our husband, maybe your best friend, those are the people who are willing to enter into real conflict and come out on the other side

because conflict is connection. If you both are anchored to the same thing. Yes. That's why there's concentric circles cuz the wider out you get, those are the people who aren't willing to engage in conflict. So when you make a commitment, you're saying, "And I I'm willing to go through these conflicts to get to the other side and be there with you."

Yes. Cuz cuz being celebrated and challenged matters. It matters. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm here with Dr. John Deloney. We're still taking calls about your life and money. So call in8825-5225. Jennifer from Detroit, Michigan is on the line with us. Hey Jennifer, what's up?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Yeah, how can we help? Um, so my 23-year-old son will be graduating from the University of Michigan in May and uh he has racked up $96,000 in student debt. Um, he did have a scholarship that he lost in his freshman year and I've done everything I could to help him apply for scholarships, get him to sit down and uh get some type of money other than student loans and he didn't want to participate. Now, my dilemma is he's 23 years old. He just got a full-time job in supply chain management. He's going to be making about 70 72 maybe 75,000 depending on overtime. But he also went out and against mom's advice went out and got a brand new pickup truck uh at $400 a month plus insurance.

$400 a month. I Yes. So, do I charge him rent um living in my house for the next year is what he's predicting or what I would charge him in rent. Do I make him pay towards his student debt?

What's the purp I want to know your heart behind this. Are would is the rent as some sort of like retribution?

I guess or like some sort of punishment or is it No, no, no. Um I I don't want to enable bad behaviors. Um I I've hear I've been hearing people say, "Oh, you know, if you're kids going to be living at home, they should contribute to the house."

Why is he living at home? Uh he he's not ready to move out yet. He's graduated,

right? He doesn't want to move out yet for another year. uh his girlfriend uh is going to be she went into um uh graduate school. She'll be graduating a year. So, it's my

got to do with anything. I know. I don't know how to have that conversation with him.

I don't think I I mean, I'm just going to be straight up with you. Uh yeah, he's It sounds like you've been displeased with some of his choices. That's fine. Um despite good advice being sent his way. That's fine. I fear that because of that, this is just one of the the fears on my list. I fear that because of that, if he moves in, you're gonna find yourself meddling because you already know, well, he did this, he shouldn't have done that, and then there's he did this, he shouldn't have done that. And I think that that's going to be not good for neither you nor him. Like, that's just not going to be good. Um, second, he makes $70,000 a year.

Move out. Move out. Um, yeah. Here here's what he Yeah. Here's what he needs. He needs a sturdy mom,

not a rigid mom, but not an overly flexible one either, right? And so whether you charge him rent or if you just say, "Okay, for one year, here's the deal. You are his new landlord

and you get to determine any and all stipulations for living in your house. Let me say it clearly. He doesn't get a vote.

Okay? You get the vote and then he gets to make a grown-up choice. If a company is going to trust him with $75,000 worth of his um uh skill set and and he doesn't have any wisdom yet. He's only 23. with with his judgment, then he he has enough judgment to make his own grown man decision on whether he's going to follow mom's rules. And and that might be I'm going to let you live rent free for 6 months or for one year, but my expectation is you put this much money a month towards your student loans and your student loans is this dollar amount when you leave. And every month that you don't send it in, you get one and done and you're out.

You're evicted. Here's the only thing I Okay, I'm I'm I'm charging rent, right? The only thing I don't like about it, I think it's a

The only thing that I I don't want to say don't like. The only thing that bothers me about it is you're still telling him what to do,

which in your house, you have the ability to do that to your He's opting into it. At this point,

he would be opting into it. But I feel like a guy like this, he needs doesn't need mom to tell him what to do. He needs to go out in the world and learn

that mom was right all along. That mom was right all along. and it hurts to have $96,000 and you shouldn't have taken out a truck payment. I feel like if he's still there, he's going to keep the car. He's not going to sell it. He's going to move very uh sheepishly on these these loans. Uh that's my only concern.

Oh, I I I've got 50 concerns. I I the the fact that that you told us he's not ready to move out yet and you're letting that be a reason why he's going to move in, that in and of itself is a challenge. I I don't have a problem and I would love to be able to have him move out. My mom has a house that she had to move out of uh to in assisted living that's sitting empty and we've offered for him to make the rent rent payments and put it into escrow and when she sells the house he gets that money back. He refuses to do that. So I don't know how

when you say what does that look like? No, he does that. He doesn't want to. He's like he he goes, "I'm not ready. I don't want to take care of the yard. I don't want to take care of the house."

Well, he he's allowed to do that, but he also doesn't that doesn't mean he automatically gets to then move in with you.

Both things can be true. Well, you're not living here. When he says he's not ready to even Okay, so take the grandma's take grandma's house off the table. When you say, "Hey, son, just go out and get an apartment." And he says he's not ready. What does that mean? He doesn't want to go out. He doesn't want to live on his own.

Yeah. He doesn't have any buddies close enough to him that he'd want to have a um a roommate.

Yeah. But he does want to make $100,000 worth of financial decisions and not study or not or get in trouble with the school and lose your scholarship. He does want to make big boy decisions when it comes to just walking out and buying a truck he can't afford. and and it's very um there's nothing that you can say concrete that says but I will be in one year right what will happen that will cause you to be ready in one year do you see what I'm saying what can he point back to

what what what are the steps that will be taken that will let me know that I don't know just emotionally or socially you'll be ready to do that in one year even

the our our friend Henry Cloud says this often one One of the greatest gifts we can give our adult children, and this is so hard, one of the greatest gifts we can give them is the consequences of their own problems.

Yep. And my guess is you've been bailing them out for most of his life. And there will come a day when the bailout stops. The sooner and the more preserved y'all's relationship is, the better.

Yeah. Okay. And the good news is, here's the thing, Jennifer. It's not like you're saying and the door is locked and you can never come. He can come over for dinner, I'm sure, as much as he wants. He can come over and watch the game. He can come over and you can

do his laundry at your house, but he's going to throw a grown-up temper tantrum.

It's not fair. I can't believe you're doing this to me. All that stuff. and he's going to he's going to throw an an age appropriate temper tantrum that we should have held these boundaries back when he was 12, back when he was 15. Now he's 23. Um so we're going to have to weather that storm, but we're going to stay sturdy in that storm and stick to our guns on that. What's the greatest thing for 30-year-old him, 28-year-old him? Um it's some really firm boundaries from mom about what she will and will not accept.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

So, here's the deal, guys. Uh, we wish we could get to every call and question on the show, but that's just not possible. So, if you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head over to our website and use the Ask Ramsay, okay? Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. You'll get an answer the same way that we'd answer it right here on the show. Um, ask your question today at ramseyolutions.com or click I'm sorry, or if you're watching on YouTube or listening to the podcast, just click the link in the description. All right. All right. All right. Going over to Timothy who's in Albany, New York. Timothy, how can we help today?

Yeah. Hi guys. How's it going? I was just uh curious. Uh so I'm 25 years old. Uh I'm married. I have a 2-year-old. Um and I have about $5,000 in my name and I'm expecting $11,000 tax return because of uh extra withholdings from last year. Um the only debt that I have, you know, we rent and stuff and we have cars that we paid cash for. Um the only debt I have is my wife's uh student loans are around $12,000. So, I'm curious, and I can tell you the interest rates on each one of her loans, um, if you'd like, but I'm curious if I should take this $11,000 that I'm getting from the tax return and pay off the majority of that debt and be left a very minimal um, a very minimal uh, what do you call it? Backup fund,

emergency fund. uh or if I should put that into like a savings account or something. Uh maybe a CD that gets 3% or something high and have it just counteract uh the interest while I'm paying it off. It's very low payment monthly.

Um I liked your first idea. Uh 11,000 is the refund amount. Yeah. And 12,000 is a student loans amount.

Yep. And then you have Did you say you had 5,000 in cash somewhere? Yes. I would pay off as soon as you get that refund. I'd pay off the entire balance of the student loans and I'd use $1,000 from your your savings.

Bro, you're about to be free. That's awesome. Free. So, you think Yeah, but I mean it's just a scary place being the only person that makes income.

It's scary to be debtree about to be debtree. I've never heard anyone say it's scary to be debtree. Uh this is a risk placement. It's where you're placing your risk. Um and it happens all the time. So, you're you're you're um you're not different than a lot of folks that call in. Uh when you're talking about fear, it's kind of like, oh, I'm really scared that something will happen, right? And what could be the worst thing that happens? You lose your job in this situation.

Yeah. Okay. So, you lose your job. Let's just play it out. You lose your job and instead of using the tax refund, you you know, just just before you lost your job, you put the tax refund over in savings. And so now you've got, you know, $16,000 in savings, still got the 12,000 student loans, and now you've lost your job. First thing is like, okay, I've lost my job. I'm only going to pay for the most important things, right? So now you're trying to scrimp on things and you're like, maybe I won't pay the student loan. And now suddenly that student loan payment is even more like punishing to you because you're like, I'm having to take money that I don't have and I'm having to pay that bill every single month. That is stressful,

right? Whereas if you say, "Hey, that can be if I lower my if I lower my expense it takes to live by paying off my debt and I have some money saved, some money. If the worst happens and I lose my job, it costs hardly anything to even operate my life cuz I have no debt. I don't have to worry about bill collectors calling me. Nobody can take anything from me. Nobody can come after me cuz I don't have any debt." And the good news is, let's pretend, uh, you know, you had a couple of months. How quickly could you save back up the $5,000 that you had? You went You're going from four to five or from five to four, I should say. How quickly could you put another,000 there?

Another,000. I I'm not sure. Um, my wife and I have just started our uh super budgeting. Uh, I've been doing most of the finances since we got married. Surely you could do it quickly without without a student loan payment.

Yeah. And without any other debt. I don't think we're even paying her right now.

Okay. Then that means that just growing on you like a cancer. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. What do you make every month?

I make around 5,000. My wife makes 200 bucks. Okay. Take home. So with no with no debt, you think in two months you can muster up 5,000 500 bucks this month and 500 bucks next month somehow

by cutting back? that probably I think you could you have to cut back a little bit but I think you could do that and then you're right back money savings wise you're right back where you were and you have no debt

and can we call out one other thing have you gone to fix your withholding I've I've for so I just got a new job a couple months ago and I'm not withholding this year I just got a job right at the start of this year but last year I was withholding

so if you think about it um this isn't new money The government just took about a thousand bucks a month from you and held it for you interest free.

That's right. And then they gave it back to you. So if you'd been making that thousand bucks a month or I mean closer to 900 bucks a month all year, this student loan would have been paid down.

Another 10 grand this year. Yeah. And so you're going to get what is the equivalent of a $1,000 a month raise

that you should have had all along and and that Yeah. It was your money all along.

And so dude, I know that is a good point. and and bro, I've been paying so being 25 years old, paying for everything is stressful. I just uh just about turned 26, so I'm off my parents health insurance, so that's

$50 a week. Yeah. Okay, but can I can I can I do something that doesn't get done enough? Can I celebrate you, man? Cuz I hear a ton of young men just opting out completely

of responsibility, of fear, of things that like don't have certain outcomes. They're just quitting. And you looked and said, "You know what? I'm going to go in. I'm going to commit all in with one person. I'm going to get married. We're going to go do another terrifying thing. We're going to combine our finances. We're going to do another terrifying thing. We're going to make a human. Maybe even more." Like, dude, I want to celebrate you because what you're going to find on the other end of this responsibility is purpose and ex deep, deep value and more joy. More fear, yes, but more joy than you could have ever imagined on the other side. So, I applaud you, brother, for going in at 25. And you're feeling the weight of that squat bar, dude, of taking care of a family. That's where you get stronger. That's where all the good stuff in your life's going to come from. And I'm proud of you, brother.

Appreciate it. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Listen, choose freedom. Don't chase interest rates. Choose. As for me and my household, nobody will ever own us.

And that just means I'm not going to borrow. Slave to the lender. Right. That's exactly right. I'm opting out.

I appreciate that. I'm proud of you, man. Call us back into your de screen, man. We're proud of you.

H I love that. That was so nice, John. People don't men don't say nice things to other men enough.

I've got to change that. Um, look, most of the guys in my life are the way we tell ours each other that we love each other is by making fun of each other.

And that's funny. And that's that's 99% of my communication with my friends. But it's it's one of the things I want to make different this year is if I see a man out in the wild, like trying to make a difference in his home, in his family tree, in his community, I'm I'm going call it out because we need more men look seeing each other and saying, "Okay, I've got I've got another brother in arms on this one."

Yeah. And listen, the ladies, we can help with that, too. Huh? I mean, yeah. just to like I' I've seen you write this on social media and I think it's a a great post so I'm gonna say it the wrong way, but there I saw you post one time about like like grab your husband and like like grab his face and just look at him and say thank like I'm proud of you. Thank you. Uh you're you're working hard and I see that

you want to melt the man in your life. I'm going to do it tonight. Grab your husband by the face and look him in the eye and put your forehead on his forehead and just say I'm so grateful for you. I'm proud of you. Shoot.

All right, Sam Warell, get ready. That'll That'll end him. That'll end him. That will end him. The The most the most common thing I hear from men behind closed doors is two things. One,

I don't know why my wife doesn't like me. Oh, no. And often when they ask that, I can say like, "Well, it's these 14 thing like right." Um, but the other thing is they they tell me in private, "I wish she could just understand that I do all of this for her. It's an audience of one. And and and and here's the deal.

We go where we're celebrated. And if you're not your spouse's biggest cheerleader, somebody else or some other thing will be. And so, however hard it is, however difficult it is,

man, if you're married to a good one, man or woman, let them know. Let them know and celebrate them. Um it it just it means the world.

It does. All right. Sam Warshaw, you already know. You already know. If you've been working the plan, paying off debt, saving, and changing your family tree, I'm proud of you. And if you're in Baby Step 4 or beyond, it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No one Else cruise is back March 14 through 21, 2027. Join the Ramsay personalities and me as we sail to Half Moon Key, Cosml, Jamaica, and Grand Cayman on the ultimate debt-free vacation. Cabins will sell out just like last time. Lock in yours with a $600 deposit at ramiesolutions.com/events.

Payton in love, Texas is on the line. Hi Payton. Hi. What's up, dude? Um, I've been a longtime listener and um kind of nervous to be on the line with you guys because I kind of feel like I already know what you're going to say. So, uh,

oh, we'll be gentle. Awesome. You You get to pick the heat factor. We can bring it in gentle at a one or a two or we can bring it at a nine or 10. You let us know.

Uh, let's go with an eight. All right. Buckle up. Okay. So, um, kind of a loaded question today and it goes back I started listening to the Ramsay show in 2020. Um, when I was incarcerated and when I got out, I started doing things the right way. Um, and then I lost my job and fell back into debt and um, found another job, but it didn't pan out. Fast forward four failed jobs later and I get hit by a train. Um, this was last this past June. And um,

you got hit by a train. Holy moly. Yes, sir. Bro, your life is a love country song, man.

So, um, I'm used to doing mostly manual labor in my life. Um, I recently got married. Um, so that's a plus. Um, my wife and I combined finances and I'm going through all of our debts the other day and I'm realizing that we're $100,000 in debt and I can't work yet and so I started looking for a part-time job recently. Um, she only makes $1250 an hour so she doesn't really make a whole lot as far as income. um she's had a really hard time keeping a steady job and for the last four years and I just don't I don't know what to do. I don't know where to turn. I'm I'm at a loss.

I'm I've I've crawled my way out of debt three times in my life and I I'm beside myself right now. Um, on top of that, I have a $750 a month child support obligation that I am unable to pay. So, my kids are going without and I'm I'm just beside myself.

Hey, brother. I want to applaud you for calling man. This is a hard phone call, isn't it?

Yeah. Yeah. I'm grateful that you called. So, some of the debts are she's got $5,000 almost $6,000 in student loans. Um they have been deferred until this year and so now she's having to start paying on those.

Okay. And um um because I've been in and out of work for about two years now, um I'm already got back child support debts. So um

uh I've got about $10,000 on one kid and about 5,000 on the other. Let me ask you, dude. The way you're ask you're telling us your story. Um you fell into debt. You got um like the jobs went away. If you were to look in the mirror and take full ownership here, why do you keep getting laid off of work? Are you not showing up on time? I There's construction going like I was just in Leach a couple of weeks ago. There's construction projects all over the place. Um, so I recently moved to Texas. Um,

like I got hit by the train. Uh, my wife is from our little small town outside of Love and so when I got hit by the train, she was already here. I just moved in with her.

What's your medical status? When are you going to be able to to get back after it? There's there's so much opportunity for those who will pick up a shovel and get after it in Love, Texas. Well, like I said, um, uh, I'm already looking for a part-time position. Um,

well, abilities, uh, I have a fused elbow and so, okay, shoveling is not exactly

Yeah, it's really challenging. Payton, when that happened, I mean, I I don't know any other way to say it, so I don't I don't want it to sound um rude, but were you at fault or was there was there fault? Is there is there any thing that's going to come up?

Definitely at fault. Um I was definitely at fault for the train accident. Um I was I found myself making $50 a week uh at this sales position. It was a traveling doortodoor sales position where they promised the world and never deliver. Um so I uh I was making $50 a week and barely able to have food. She was working the same job with me and she couldn't make it either. So, she decided to go home. And I had seen what happens when people leave the company when they don't have anything. So, I wasn't about to get dropped off at a bus station with nothing. Um, and so

you try to jump a train. I was I tried to jump a train home and it didn't work. Um, it was going faster than I thought and it caught me. So, let me ask you this. Are you ready to change everything?

Absolutely. If you only knew, my friend. Okay. All right. So, here here's my call out. Number one, when you get off this call, I want you to call over to Family Counseling Services. I think they're off Avenue Q over there in Levik.

Okay. Okay. And they have Sliding Scale and they support folks who are struggling financially, but you got to get in and sit with somebody. Okay? You got a lot of demons in your back,

right? Yeah. Okay. Number two, you can't kind of look for a part-time job. You've got to make it your life's mission to get two jobs by the end of this week. And I'm and I'm putting that pressure on you because I think you can. And they're not going to be fun. And you're going to be exhausted and you're going to be sore. But I want you to commit to it because what you need right now more than anything is a bunch of little wins. And these debt collectors can ask all day long, but bro, you got kids and I want to get those guys squared up. And you do, too. I can hear your voice, right?

Yeah. All right. So, let the bill collectors keep calling you for a minute. You don't have anything anyway. And your wife has got to either get the help she needs or she's got to make a commitment. I'm going to go get a second job. I can't just can't just putter by on 1250 an hour.

She's she's actually about to get a $9 an hour Well, $850 an hour raise. Awesome.

As soon as she's Yeah. Soon as she gets this test done. Listen to me. Jade and I are going to give you and her the premium every dollar app

because you know as well as I do. Premium every dollar app because we're in Financial Peace University currently through our church.

Sweet. Good. The worst thing that can happen is y'all get an $8 an hour raise or $9 raise and you don't budget it because it will disappear faster than you get it. Right.

Right. So, we're going to be we're going to be militant in our discipline when it comes to our spending and our budgeting. And we're going to have to go for walks. We're going to have to go over there to Severe Park and go for and go I mean go for walks together. We're going to have to get a I don't know a soccer ball and kick it. We're going to have to do stuff that didn't cost any money because that's where we are right now.

Right. Right. And if you'll go get a job, you'll go get two jobs and you commit to a year of being uncomfortable. You're already uncomfortable. Commit to being uncomfortable in a direction that's going to change your life.

Right? You get what I'm saying? Yeah. Go sit down with a counselor over there who will work with you and say, "I'm ready to change some of the stuff I've been put sit down some of that crap I've been carrying for all these years." You get what I'm saying?

Absolutely. We both think you can do it, man. Also, you know what? Hang on the line. We're going to send you a copy of King Coleman's Find the Work You're Wired to Do. I want you to take the career assessment inside of it. It's incredibly insightful. And begin to ask yourself, not just after a year of survival jobs, what do I actually want to do?

What can I do in this local community here in this great city of Love, Texas? What can I do that's going to contribute to this city, to the people who've been where like who are where I used to be? And now you're talking about changing everything in your life, but you need some little wins, brother. Hang on the line. We'll get you h chooked up with some resources. We're we're we're your number one and two fan.

Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year and I hope you are too. But the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is. I'm going to save money or I'm going to get my financial act together. But without a plan, you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win. And our Every Dollar app is the game changer you need. In 15 minutes, Every Dollar helps you build a plan based on where you're at with money right now. And every day, the app coaches you with ways to find extra money so you can beat debt and build wealth faster. It's like having me in your pocket, helping you stay on track all year long. So don't just wish your money works out. You can be the one to actually make it happen this year.

Download the Every Dollar Budget app and get started right now for free. The Ramsey shows scripture and quote of the day. 2 Corinthians 9:10. Now he who supplies need to seed to the sewer and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. Thomas Saul, is that is that right? Saul said this. It's okay to have your eggs in one basket as long as you control what happens to that basket. All right, I'm with you, Thomas. I'm with you. All right, Ann is in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Hi, Anna. How can we help today? Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Um, so I guess I'll just get straight to the point and if you need more details, just let me know. Um, so my question is, how do I buy a house with my fiance when I do not have a credit score or recent rent or loan history?

Why don't you have any of that? How were you living before? I So, I am a long-term Ramsay listener. Back in 2023, I paid off all of my student loan debt of like 49,000. So, um, after that, I was living with my parents for a little bit and now my fiance and I are getting married this August. So, I've never had a rent payment. And, um, yeah, my student loan histories, like the loan providers say that it's too long ago to count for anything. So,

it's hard to get approved. Um, what about your fiance who will be your husband? What's his scenario? Because if you guys buy this house, it'll be together. No.

Correct. Yes. Correct. So he actually has he's debtree too. Um but he has had like a line of credit since he's been 18. He's been very

responsible with his money. So he does have a really good credit score. So when we go into loan providers to get approved, he gets approved and then I get approved for nothing basically.

Okay. So they're going to go it's going to go one one way or the other. you're either going to go like the zero credit score underwriting way or you're going to go the credit score using his credit score way. Um, in your case, the only I mean, I can go through the requirements, but I think you already know this. You have to show 12 months of documented rental history, and it's not by amount. It's just showing that you were good for a payment for 12 months. So, unless you're in some way going to postpone buying this house, I mean, I don't know.

When's the wedding? Uh the wedding is in August. Okay. Yeah. Um other thing is so for manual unwriting you have to show 12 months.

Yeah. You have to 12 you have to show 12 months of documented rental history. Uh you have to show 12 months of other trade lines things like cell phones, utilities, insurance payments. You have to show actual money. So you have to show income for the last 12 months. Uh 24 months if you're self-employ employed. Uh and also provide pay stubs for the last 30 days. um if you're self-employed. And yeah, so that's that's a necessity. So I have two I have two thoughts on what you've said. One is you can just say, "Okay, my husband has a credit score and it's really really good. We'll just get a mortgage using that." No one's going to fault you for that. Um if he still has a credit score and it's still really good by then. Um so you could go that route. Second thought though that I have is what's the rush to buy a house so quickly? You will you will have just gotten married.

Usually we'd say, you know, wait a year at at the very least 6 months. Yeah, I I definitely see what you're saying. We're definitely not opposed to renting. I think it's just the fact that um we've been pretty good at I mean, we follow the Dave Ramsey. I have followed the Dave Ramsey plan and we've saved quite a bit and we're we're ready, I guess, if we wanted to be. But we're not opposed to renting, I guess, if that's you're what you're hearing. It's just if we come across something we really love, we would love to put in an offer. But otherwise, we we're totally fine renting.

I If if you are a long-term Ramsay listener, can I throw one thing else at you?

Yeah. And you know what I'm going to say? Yeah, I think so. Um, you put yourself We Jade and I would only have jobs. Dave, Ken, Rachel, George, all of us. We'd only have jobs if because people have these plans and the plans don't work out like they hoped. So, I cannot tell you there won't be anyone else in the world other than your family rooting for you and your marriage more than me. I'm I'm the world's biggest fan of be of marriage. Okay? and I only have a job because people get engaged and then it falls apart.

And so, you know, I'm going to tell you this. I would not buy anything with somebody that I didn't have the legal protection of being married with first.

And so, even if even if that is nothing else to say, let's let's rent. Let's let's get married. Let's live together. Let's figure out distance from grocery stores and distance from our favorite music clubs and distance from our church. Whatever we want to do, let's get all that settled before we anchor ourselves to a home. Especially when we don't have when you don't have neither of y'all have the protection, the legal protection of being being legally married.

Yeah, I agree. That's just what I would tell my friends. That's what I would tell my sister. That's what I tell my daughter. That's what I tell my son. So, I'm telling you what I would tell the people closest to me.

No, I I agree with that. I've definitely heard you all say that before and it has cross both of our minds. So,

and I know y'all are special. Yeah. Only other people have issues, right? I get that. I get that. But, um that's just something to think through.

No. Yeah, for sure. So, have you have you tried the manual underwriting process with a with a loan officer yet?

Uh yes. and the it's the 12 months of rent history that I keep running into. So like I I've tried to like give them my student loan payments that I paid back like

Yeah. But those are trade lines. It's not the same. It's it really does hit different. So I I think this is a let's call this um

divine intervention. Yeah. This is a sign. This is a sign that is maybe you're not quite ready. I mean, clearly you yourself are not quite ready because you don't have the necessary things in place. Um, and then if you guys get married and you guys go in on this obviously together as husband and wife, it might make sense uh like I said to to do everything based on what he's showing on his side because either way it's going to run one way or the other. You're going to go based on manual underwriting with a zero credit score or um it's going to go based on uh his side with a credit score. So,

and know this, banks only make money when, well, that's not completely true, but they generally make money when they make loans. And so, if if a bank looks at you and says, "We don't feel comfortable giving you this money."

Take that take their word for it. You know what I mean? Even if you're like, "Dude, I have a great job. I've got plenty of money in the bank." Whatever.

All right, fine. We'll suck away more cash. We'll rent a small little place. We'll spend our time not worrying about the roof and the air conditioner, but just worrying about getting to to know each other even better. And then we'll buy a house down the road.

Yeah. Or, you know, right today, you could start paying your parents some little bit of rent today and pay that through August or September, whenever it is you're getting married, and then you and your guy rents an apartment for 3 months, and then you're square. You're ready to go.

Or write your parents a $1,000 check for back rent. That's I don't know. That is that does that work?

Can you do that? That's a little shimmy. A little shimmy idea. Yeah, don't. No fraud. No fraud.

Run that one back. Okay. Yeah. So, you've got some options, some of which are fraud.

I'm sorry. That one. It's okay. Um, yeah. Hopefully, we can talk some sense into this uh for you. I I agree wholeheartedly with John. I would I would just wait. All signs are pointing towards wait. If you wait, you have everything you need. Uh you can buy the house together. It's fully secure. Everything is on the other side of waiting for this. So that is what I would suggest.

And a muscle for you and your new husband to to begin to exercise is you both really want a thing, but the timing is just not right yet. And learning to be frustrated together, to grieve together, to be annoyed together, both towards the same thing. That actually will make you stronger in the long run.

That's good. That's so good, John. practice that because you're gonna want a new Tahoe and you're not gonna have the money for it. You're going to want a third kid, but timing is just not right. Like, you're going to want things. Y'all are going to be frustrated either. Start practicing that right now.

Have you ever noticed Okay, here's a quick food for thought for the end of the show. When you're broke, and I'm not saying they are, have you noticed that when you're broke, you want so much? There's so much that you want to buy and go do, and everything feels like like anguishing to wait.

Why not? Why not? Why not? Yeah. And then when you can finally get it, you're like, "Oh, I I maybe didn't want it anyway." You just wanted the option. You just wanted the option of saying,

"I can choose." That's right. You know, it's just something to that. Oh my gosh, what a great time. Hey guys, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Getting Out of Debt Requires Radical Change | February 10, 2026"?

Jade Warshaw (Host).

What is "Getting Out of Debt Requires Radical Change | February 10, 2026" about?

The main topic revolves around the challenges of overcoming debt and the necessary radical changes needed to achieve financial stability. Key points include a caller's struggle with maintaining a $10,000 credit card debt linked to alcohol use, the importance of addressing underlying issues, and the conversation emphasizes actionable steps, such as cutting up credit cards and developing a safety…

What is mentioned in this The Ramsey Show episode?

12 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including John Deloney, Jade Warshaw, Family Counseling Services, Love, Texas, University of Michigan, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Getting Out of Debt Requires Radical Change | February 10, 2026"?

The episode runs 2 h 8 min; the transcript is about 23,542 words in 415 timestamped sections.

More from The Ramsey Show

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated February 12, 2026.