There Is Hope When Debt and Life Feel Overwhelming | January 14, 2026

What this episode is about

The discussion centers on a caller, Jeff, who reveals that his wife has accrued approximately $300,000 in predatory loans over the past decade without his knowledge, primarily using the funds for personal purchases. The conversation explores the implications of hidden debt within relationships, emphasizing the importance of communication and financial transparency to address such overwhelming situations.

Key takeaways

• Debt becomes a secret romance; one partner's passion for spending can cost both their future.
• Predatory loans bear the charm of free checks; it’s just hard to love debt that doesn’t love back.
• A 'no-ownership' mentality is the real thief in marriage; honesty can save your relationship from bankruptcy.
• Fix the budget, not the blame; financial intimacy can restore trust faster than cash can restore credit.
• When retirement meets 300k in debt, it's time for a career switch: Back to the job market, not just Netflix.

Who speaks in this episode?

• George Camel (Host) · 1 h 4 min speaking
• Dr. John Deloney (Guest) · 1 h 4 min speaking
• Jeff (Guest) · 25 min speaking
• Andy (Guest) · 19 min speaking
• Alicia (Guest) · 19 min speaking
• Matthew (Guest) · 13 min speaking
• Maria (Guest) · 13 min speaking
• JR (Guest) · 6 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 15:00: Retirement, Ramsay Show, Budgeting, Debt
2. 15:00 – 30:00: Savings, Alicia, Christian Healthcare Ministries, George Camel
3. 30:00 – 45:00: Retirement, Fair Winds Credit Union, Foundation Repair, Fair Winds
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00: Savings, Retirement, Ramsay Show, Budgeting
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00: Every Dollar, Budgeting, Xander Insurance, Dave Ramsey
6. 1:15:00 – 1:30:00: Retirement, Savings, Home Ownership, Debt
7. 1:30:00 – 1:45:00: Retirement, Every Dollar, Budgeting, Savings
8. 1:45:00 – 2:00:00: Fair Winds Credit Union
9. 2:00:00 – 2:06:59: Retirement, Savings

Notable quotes from "There Is Hope When Debt and Life Feel Overwhelming | January 14, 2026"

• Transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel, joined by best-selling author Dr. John Deloney and we're taking your calls at88255225.

  about Ramsay Show · at 0:16

• No. No. That's in That's her retirement and me.

  about Retirement · at 3:26

• Hi. So, I so basically long story short, I had a manic episode and put myself into a little bit of debt and I want to know where to start with the baby steps to get myself out of the situation I put myself into.

  about Alicia · at 21:39

• Just picture Alicia for the first time in her adult life completely debtree with savings in the bank to cover any emergency that would come up. How good would that feel?

  about Savings · at 25:58

• I'm so sorry you're going through this, Alicia. Hang on the line. And we're going to hook you up with our budgeting app, Every Dollar, to help you make a plan for every one of…

  about Every Dollar · at 30:45

• You call us up, we'll help you take the right next step for your money, your relationships, and your life. Ryan is in Flint, Michigan. Up next, Ryan, what's your question today?

  about Financial Management · at 44:06

• Have you guys ever created a budget together where you actually sat down and said, All right, here's the paychecks coming in. Here's all of our expenses for the month. We're going to track our.

  about Budgeting · at 48:15

• The other problem is we don't actually own a house at this time, especially here in California. it's a little more difficult these days but and so that's kind of like the.

  about Home Ownership · at 1:21:57

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• George Camel — Person · Host · 5 mentions · first at 0:23
  Primary on-air host who guides callers through Ramsey Baby Steps, budgeting, and debt payoff tactics.
  Transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel, joined by best-selling author Dr. John Deloney and we're taking your calls at88255225.
• Alicia — Person · Caller · 3 mentions · first at 21:34
  Calls after a manic episode (bipolar) led to payday-loan debt; hosts integrate mental health safeguards with Baby Steps and income strategy.
• Dave Ramsey — Person · Referenced expert; brand figure · 2 mentions · first at 44:26
  Referenced as the originator of the Baby Steps and author of Total Money Makeover; callers cite his materials as guidance.
  The main one I'm trying to get through is that I we've been listening me and the wife been listening to Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover. I listened to one of his seminars…

Books & papers

• Total Money Makeover — Book · Referenced resource · 2 mentions · first at 44:26
  Cited by Ryan as a key resource shaping his understanding of Baby Steps and savings guidance.
  The main one I'm trying to get through is that I we've been listening me and the wife been listening to Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover. I listened to one of his seminars…
• Find the Work You're Wired to Do — Book · Recommended resource · 1 mention · first at 59:41
  Recommended to Jamie to clarify career direction and translate skills into adjacent roles during job-loss emergency.
  We're going to send you Ken Coleman's Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It has the Get Clear Career Assessment in there. And what it's really going to help you do is figure out, hey, what are.

Companies & orgs

• Ramsay Solutions — Company · Producer/brand organization · 1 mention · first at 32:58
  Referenced via website for trusted agent program; umbrella organization for hosts/products.

Concepts & topics

• Debt — Concept · Core topic · 2 mentions · first at 0:53
  Debt elimination is the dominant theme: predatory loans, payday loans, bankruptcy, 401k loans, leases, student loans, and debt snowball.
  Now totaling right around $300,000.
• Budgeting — Concept · Core topic · 8 mentions · first at 0:04
  Central prescription across calls: combine finances, create a written budget, track spending, and use EveryDollar to enforce behavior change.
• Savings — Concept · Core topic · 14 mentions · first at 26:02
  Discussed as starter emergency fund, larger savings balances, and tradeoffs between saving vs paying debt.
• Financial Management — Concept · Core topic (umbrella) · 3 mentions · first at 19:40
  Encompasses the Baby Steps sequencing, behavior change, and tactical decisions (settlements, pausing steps, income increases).
• Retirement — Concept · Core topic · 23 mentions · first at 3:26
  Appears in calls about starting Roth IRAs, pension/Social Security income, and warnings against borrowing from 401k.
• Home Ownership — Concept · Secondary topic · 3 mentions · first at 34:05
  Discussed via saving for down payment (Baby Step 3B), mortgage affordability concerns, and California housing constraints.
• Social Security — Concept · Income source referenced · 3 mentions · first at 6:04
  Jeff reports spouse draws Social Security as part of retirement income, affecting debt repayment capacity.
  Well, she draws social security and she's got a pension that I don't know exactly what's in her pension.
• Financial Aid — Concept · Education funding detail · 1 mention · first at 27:42
  Alicia notes financial aid covers school, affecting her ability to pause school and increase work hours to attack payday loans.
  So luckily, financial aid covers everything and I've been doing scholarships, so I haven't had to pay for a penny for school, luckily.

Places & events

• Foundation Repair — Event · Home emergency scenario · 3 mentions · first at 37:12
  Silas faces potential $12k–$24k foundation repair; hosts advise inspection, storm mode, and income increases.
  Is dropping a little bit and we've only got a couple quotes on it so far. The first one was 12,000. Second one was like 24,000 and we don't have that kind of money and so just…
• Emergency Surgery — Event · Health crisis event · 1 mention · first at 22:24
  Alicia’s emergency surgery is part of the cascade leading to a severe manic episode and subsequent debt.
  Problems, too. So, I also have endometriosis. So, I had a flare up and had to have emergency surgery. And it was just a complication of everything all together that I think…
• 2024 — Event · Referenced time marker · 1 mention · first at 1:06:00
  Lee references a divorce in 2024, central to the reconciliation/trust and finances discussion.
  Well, so my question, I'm a little unique. So, I went through a divorce in 2024.
• 2025 — Event · Referenced time marker · 2 mentions
  Referenced in discussion of proposed 'Trump accounts' eligibility window and having a child in 2025–2028.
  Did you have a child in 2025 through 2028?
• 2021 — Event · Referenced time marker · 1 mention
  Andy references filing bankruptcy in 2021, framing his financial history and current debt situation.
  Back in 200, 21, we filed for bankruptcy.
• Jacksonville, Florida — Place · Caller location · 1 mention · first at 0:32
  Jeff's location; contextual detail for the first call about hidden predatory loans.
  Jeff is going to kick us off in Jacksonville, Florida. What's going on, Jeff?
• Flint, Michigan — Place · Caller location · 1 mention · first at 44:10
  Ryan's location; contextual detail for the high-income debt/budgeting call.
  You call us up, we'll help you take the right next step for your money, your relationships, and your life. Ryan is in Flint, Michigan. Up next, Ryan, what's your question today?

Media & podcasts

• Ramsay Show — Media · Primary show · 5 mentions · first at 0:20
  The program where callers seek advice on money and relationships; hosts repeatedly identify the show and take calls.

Sponsors

• Every Dollar — Product · Budgeting tool promoted/recommended · 9 mentions · first at 0:02
  Budgeting app repeatedly recommended to callers as the tactical mechanism to implement the Baby Steps and track spending.
• Fair Winds Credit Union — Company · Sponsor; studio naming partner · 6 mentions · first at 0:18
  Credited as the studio sponsor and promoted as a bank alternative aligned with Ramsey Baby Steps (checking/savings/debit).
  Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay…
• Fair Winds — Company · Sponsor (short name reference) · 5 mentions · first at 0:18
  Shortened reference to Fair Winds Credit Union in promotional segments.
  Money doesn't control you. So this year, stick to your plan. Don't chase gimmicks or points and partner with a credit union that helps you make progress in the baby steps. Visit fairwinds.org/ramsey to take control of your money and stay.
• Christian Healthcare Ministries — Company · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at 20:13
  Promoted as a faith-based alternative to health insurance with no open enrollment and shared medical bills.
  Panic. Most health plans lock you out for the year if you didn't sign up by December. But Christian Healthcare Ministries lets you join anytime. CHM offers a simple, flexible…
• Mama Bear Legal Forms — Company · Sponsor · 1 mention · first at 9:22
  Advertised as a will-creation service; positioned as urgent estate planning for listeners' families.
  Completing your will is one of the most important things you can do to protect your loved ones and your legacy. That's why I always recommend Mama Bear Legal Forms. I've seen…
• Xander Insurance — Company · Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at 1:04:23
  Advertised for identity theft protection and monitoring services; endorsed as the only plan recommended by the speaker.
  I've been telling people for almost 20 years, they need an ID theft protection plan. And the only one I've ever recommended is from Xander Insurance.
• AI — Product · Referenced in sponsor ad · 1 mention · first at 43:21
  Mentioned as 'built-in AI' in NetSuite advertisement; not part of the advice content.
  Yours. Over 43,000 businesses already run on Netswuite, including a lot that started just like you. And now with built-in AI, Netswuite is helping them even more. It's one…

Full transcript with timestamps

0:02 Brought to you by the Every Dollar app. Start budgeting for free today. Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel, joined by best-selling author Dr. John Deloney and we're taking your calls at88255225. Jeff is going to kick us off in Jacksonville, Florida. What's going on, Jeff?

0:37 How are y'all? What What can we help you with today? What's happening? Well, my wife over the last 8 to 10 years has taken on a a series of I I guess the term is predatory loans. uh now totaling right around $300,000. All without my knowledge, of course.

1:01 Goodness gracious. Yes. What kind of When you say predatory loans, what what type of loans are these exactly?

1:10 You broke up on us, Jess. I'm sorry. It's uh it's the ones where they send you a check in the mail and they say cash this and you fill out some paperwork online and they deposit the money straight into your account.

1:28 Okay. So, I'm trying to figure out the actual Was this one company that she just kept falling for this over and over?

1:36 No, it was multiple. Wow. And so they basically say cash this check aka it's a loan as soon as you cash it.

1:44 Correct. It says you're pre-qualified for x number of what did she use the money for?

1:52 She blew it. There's there's no You're telling me for a decade you had no inkling that this was happening?

1:59 That is correct. That's the most shocking part of all of this. It is. Wow. What did she say she spent it on? You say she blew it. Was there an addiction involved here?

2:11 No. No. Just just blew it. Amazon. Um, who knows? And you never thought, hey, where is she getting all this stuff? Because I know what's coming out of our account. I'm guessing there is no our account. Is it your money and her money?

2:27 Well, it is. Yes. And it's always been that way. No. Uh, it wasn't when we were first married. Uh we separated for a few months oh back in the 2010 time frame and of course obviously separated our finances and then when we reconciled we never we just never really got around to it. Mhm.

2:55 And everything was fine uh until she retire. She retired this past January and everything was fine until she retired. Obviously took a pay cut and didn't have the money.

3:10 Feels like a bad time to retire when you're $300,000 in debt. That is correct. Do you guys have other debts?

3:18 No. Well, our house. Okay. And what's your household income? Uh about 125. And that's just you?

3:26 No. No. That's in That's her retirement and and me. Okay. And you're willing to go, hey, this is this is us. She made the mess, but it's our mess to clean up.

3:38 I don't know that I have a choice at this point. I mean, you've always got a choice.

3:47 Yeah, but that's not a choice I'm willing to make. That's what I was hoping. I was hoping for some ownership there. Not some victim, but some owner. And I love that. No,

3:58 I love that. Yeah, I'm I'm definitely take take part of the, you know, responsibility, but no, I can't I would never leave her over something like that.

4:10 So, is she committed to not doing this playing this game anymore? She is. And we're in the process of recombining finances. That way I can if something like that were to happen again, I would know about it.

4:25 Yeah. I I'm going to pass this to George to let him walk you through the just the process. But um if I were you, I don't I don't know the the help I get from leading with these were predatory loans. They were they are, but I think it helps. It kind of takes the edge off. my wife did a thing repeatedly and hid it from me for a decade. We need to deal with that part of this and then together we're gonna heal both the trust in our marriage and B, like you said, we're going to do some things very tangibly. We're going to combine income. We're going to be very diligent on a budget.

5:05 We're going to tackle this debt together. She retired. She's going to have to go back and get a job because y'all are 300 plus in the hole now. Plus all the interest that's racked up on this madness. Like, we're going to tackle this problem together. Um, but I I would I would Yes, there's bad people out in the world. Yes, they took advantage. But also, this is something this is a daily practice that happened over a daily deception that happened over a decade. Blaming it in any shape, form, or fashion on the lenders right now is just a distraction from the problem that y'all two have together.

5:37 You get what I'm saying? I agree 100%. I just uh I just didn't know a better term for

5:43 No, I mean, you're right. It's I I hate it. I wish it was outlawed. It's predatory in practice, but when you get bit by the snake once and you go back for eight more bites, at some point you got to go, I guess I was I was a part of that.

5:53 And then you hide the bites from the person that you're supposed to be doing life like side by side with, right? So that that to me is the bigger issue than these deceptive people.

6:01 How much does she have in retirement? Uh well, she draws social security and she's got a a pension that I don't know exactly what's in her pension. uh between uh between the two, she brings in roughly 70 between 70 and 75,000 a year.

6:21 Okay. And how much of that do you guys actually need to cover your bills? Do you guys have any margin right now?

6:28 Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um our we've got a house payment. That's it. I mean, what's the house payment? How much?

6:37 27. And then what's your total take-home pay for the month between the two of you?

6:44 About it's roughly $4,500. Okay. That doesn't leave a whole lot of wiggle room after insurance, taxes, utilities, food.

6:59 It It does not. But here here's the the napkin math. If you can put 50 grand a year towards these loans, they're done in six years. Correct.

7:08 And so I don't know that you could scrape together that's we're talking over four grand a month needs to be going towards these loans. Otherwise the interest alone is going to keep ballooning the balance to where you'll never make progress. So you've got to get angry at these things,

7:22 right? But what I've actually done is I've contacted each lender individually and negotiated with them and hopefully I'm going to be down in the 150 to 170 neighborhood is what I've been able to negotiate so far.

7:40 Are they requiring lump sums for each of those? And that's the hitch is that I would have to pay a lump sum.

7:47 Do you have any money? I don't have that kind of money. Well, I do. I mean, I I do have that in my retirement fund.

7:55 And how old are you? Mutual fund. I'm 57. Okay. So, we're not going to touch those.

8:01 This might be in 3 years when I have access to retirement. If you have the funds, then we write the checks.

8:10 I was considering uh taking a second mortgage on my house, paying it all. Jeff, then you're just adding to the mess. Now, you're really putting your house on the block. going in further into debt is not the solution to get out of debt. So, I would not do that. I would go for that settlement that you've been already going after and then do everything you can. She's going to have to work for the foreseeable future. You're going to have to work for the foreseeable future to clean this mess up. Wish you the best.

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9:57 Use the promo code Ramsey to save 20%. That's mabarillegalforms.com. Promo code Ramsay. Andy is in New York City up next. Andy, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

10:22 Hey guys. Hey. How can we help? Hi. I've been uh trying to talk to my wife about some stuff uh about trying to help out around the house uh getting a job. Uh but it seems like every time I bring something up uh and how I need her to contribute to the family, she tells me that I'm starting when I'm honestly not. Um she tells me uh uh what uh I should be doing and uh then she just turns around and just runs away from everything. Uh we've been married from uh for about four years uh almost five. Uh she came from an abusive childhood. I bring home 35 a year, but after child support it's about 27.

11:10 Uh I have uh $420 car payment. Um I it's just been me and uh I'm really struggling. I didn't know if you guys could help out.

11:25 Yeah. It sounds like you're asking two different questions. One is a question about your money. Like I'm what you bring home, the payments you have built into your life. That's that's a scary way to live and you live in a very expensive part of the country, right? Like that's a lot. And doing this alone and it sounds like you're telling your wife, "Hey, here's what I want. Here's what we need." And she's like, "Yeah, I don't care." That's got to be super frustrating and lonely and maddening and all those things all in one, right? But it sounds like you got two different challenges here. Um, where would you like us to focus?

12:06 Um, on us. Yeah. So, when you say she doesn't help out around the house, she's not working. How does she spend her day currently?

12:17 Uh, sitting playing games. Um, how old is she? She's 32. Do you guys have any children together?

12:27 No. Okay. So, it's not like she's staying at home with the kids. She's You saying she's literally just playing video games all day. You go to work, you come home, you're doing all the house chores, the cooking, the cleaning.

12:40 Yeah, she uh cooks for the most part, but I have to do all the cleaning and everything else pretty much.

12:45 And you feel like she's not pulling her weight in this marriage. Has it ever been different or has this been the case since day one? Uh, no. It was different uh back when we first started. Um,

12:56 what shifted gone downhill? Did something happened in her life? Is she I mean, I'm guessing there's some anxiety, depression behind all of this.

13:07 Yeah, I I have no Have you dug into that? Have you Have you approached it from a place of empathy of, "Hey, what's going on? I feel like you've been real down lately and just kind of veging out playing games and there's this disconnection and you know what? Tell me about that. Versus I need you to help out around the house and go get a job. You know, it sounds like you're her parent instead of a spouse.

13:32 No, I I've I've tried it and it it's just oh, you're starting you're starting you're starting when I'm just trying to have an honest general conversation about helping out. She

13:44 sought out help professionally. Yeah, she sees a counselor uh once a week. Would she be willing to invite you or would she be willing to have you come with her?

13:57 Uh that could be an option. And here here's the way I would approach that. Um this is you submitting. This is you taking a knee. And there's going to be people in the internet sphere that think this is bad and this is weak or it's not. It's loving. It's connecting. This someone who's clearly hurting. um and is not experiencing the world in a real way, right? Because you have a big math problem, you have a marriage problem, you have a life, joy and passion problem, you've got all the problems, right? So, so she's clearly not experiencing the world as it is, but she is experiencing the world as she feels it to be. Right?

14:33 If you approached her and said, "I don't feel like I'm doing a good job connecting with you and loving you in a way that you could feel it. I'd love to come to one of your counseling sessions so your counselor could give me some insights on how I could be a better support system for you

14:52 and that might be an invitation um that she would extend to you. you could come to her session and from there maybe get some context on what she's telling this counselor, what the counselor is telling her, what kind of world you're inhabiting. Cuz here's here's the deal. You need to come up with on your own an or what statement. And what I mean by that is are you going to leave? Because if the answer is no, if the answer is till death do us part, I said I'll be here. then your energy is spent complaining. Your energy spent yelling, your energy spent fighting is wasted energy. I'm not going to leave. So all of my energy is going to be towards finding some avenue, some shape, form or fashion, some way that I can connect or deal with the reality that I've got a partner who's just going to scroll her life away and we have a math problem and I'm going to have to go get a different job or two

15:45 jobs or three jobs. Or if your or what statement is if this doesn't change, I'm going to choose to go elsewhere. You need to be open and bold and put that on the table. But you just continually fighting without an anchor point is it's just it it's not getting y'all anywhere, right? In fact, it's making everything worse.

16:05 Yeah. And now you're in a place where you can't even say, "Hi, I love you." Cuz then she goes, "Well, you're starting up again." And then it's over.

16:12 Yep. If she was to call into the show, what would she tell us about you? How she experiences you? how much I care about her and how much I try and do everything for her. She she she'll say that too, but like she'll just have her moments where she where I just try and have a general honest conversation.

16:36 Yeah, it sounds like she's struggling with something bigger than just connectivity issues. And so, yeah, if if there's a possibility that she would allow you to join her in a counseling session, I think or two or three, I think that would be really beneficial for everybody.

16:48 Um, okay. Let's talk about your money for a second, George. Yeah. How much debt do you currently have? What's the total balance of your consumer debt?

16:56 Um, by consumer debt, uh, back in 200, uh, 21, we filed for bankruptcy because I had to. Um,

17:08 why did you have to? I was kneede in the swamp. Uh, I couldn't keep up with any payments. Uh, I had a broken scaffoid at the time. Uh, everybody was going to take me to court. Um,

17:25 so did they wipe it clean or did you get put on a payment plan? Nope. They wiped it clean. Um,

17:31 and where are you today? Uh, now today, uh, I had a car that broke down. Uh, so you had to get a payment.

17:40 So I went and got a car payment. Yep. Even though I told my wife that I didn't want to. Um,

17:47 so she forced you. None of this has happened on your own valition is what I'm hearing. Everybody forced you into every decision you made that put you in this terrible place.

17:57 Nope. Nope. I I went out Nope. I went out and got the car payment even though I didn't want to. That's what I was telling my wife. Um, so we went out and got the car payment and then uh she also goes to school uh for nursing.

18:18 You left that part out. I thought she was at home all day playing video games. No, she is for the most part.

18:25 Okay. Except when she's going to become a medical professional. What was that? except when she's going to university to become a a medical professional.

18:36 Even uh classes are at home some days. But yes. Okay. So, what is the total balance today?

18:43 Uh today it's uh about 90,000. Goodness gracious. Yep. And you make 30 grand a year?

18:52 Yep. And I make 30 grand a year. Why do you make 30 grand a year? Uh because I can't find a better job that fits my schedule that I need.

19:03 What's the schedule that you need? What does that mean? Uh so I have a daughter uh who lives about an hour and a half away from me that I have to go see uh every Tuesdays uh that I pick up about uh 5:00. I think we need to readjust the schedule to go, hey, this based on my work schedule, I can't make this happen. You're not going to be able to afford child support at this point. So, you need to make some serious changes, Andy. I mean, all the way around. And yes, there's other people involved, but all I've heard so far is I had to. I have to. I had no choice. She made me. I think we just need to control what we can control, and that's the guy in the mirror. And then we can work on the stuff around it. We wish you the best.

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21:34 Alicia is in Chicago up next. Alicia, what's going on? Hi. So, I uh so basically long story short, um I had a manic episode and put myself into a little bit of debt and I want to know where to start with the baby steps to get myself out of the situation I put myself into.

21:52 Oh, very cool. So, uh when you say a manic episode, are you diagnosed bipolar? Yes, I am.

21:58 Okay. Uh one or two? Uh I believe it is two. It's the uh genetic one. Okay. um uh different conversation, but um so have you had manic episodes before?

22:11 Yes, I have, but they were not as extreme as this one. Tell tell me about it. So, basically, I was having a lot of family trouble and then I had health problems, too. So, I also have endometriosis. So, I had a flare up and had to have emergency surgery. And it was just a complication of everything all together that I think what made it a really bad episode for me. Ah, and so tell me about the payday loans you took out. How bad is it?

22:35 Um, so the original total amount was like 2,300 and something and with all that interest, it is approximately uh $5,800 with all that interest.

22:46 Gosh, I don't I don't know how those people sleep to be honest with you. I just don't. But

22:52 I'm not very happy about it. I know. I know. I know. Okay. So, um, question number one is do you have your are are you I've seen I've seen friends I've seen colleagues I've seen countless students of mine over the years who are diagnosed with bipolar disorder and and you know it's on a spectrum various various levels of it um who when com when they commit to med management when they actually take their meds and when when they feel great and when they don't feel great um and when they put in some what I would call for lack of a better term some hurdles When I feel myself beginning to start down a path where I'm going down to the basement or when I'm starting on a path where I'm about to go to the mountaintop, I know I'm going to give my debit card to a trusted friend.

23:39 I am going to turn my internet off for seven day, right? So, they put some really big hurdles to protect themselves from themselves in those seasons. Um, do you have are you taking care of your medications? Are you seeing a professional? Are you are are are you managing this thing in a in a healthy way?

23:58 Yes. So, we were in the process of figuring out um what dose worked for me last year, like what medications, and that's when I had the episode. So, it wasn't the correct medication. Now, I'm actually on the correct one. So, I don't know if it's okay for me to disclose the type.

24:13 Well, it it doesn't matter for this conversation, but I just want to tell you I'm proud of you.

24:18 Thank you. and I want you to commit to me and George and everyone listening, you're going to stay on the plan, okay?

24:25 Okay. And that's awesome. Now, when it comes to getting this paid off, George will walk you through it. It's a it's a it's a math problem, but we fully believe you can get there. Is that And you don't believe in yourself. We probably believe in you more than you do right now, but hear us say we believe in you. Okay. Okay. Same team.

24:48 Same team. Awesome. Awesome. I'm really glad that you called. So, give me some more details about your financial picture. Are you working full-time right now?

24:56 No. So, I'm actually uh going back to school for human resource management and business management cuz I want to get a better career right now. I'm really just working as a waitress. So, my income isn't like um what's the proper term I'm looking for? It's not like a set in stone thing. It's always it's sloppy and it's

25:14 So, are you working part-time as a waitress and then part-time school? Yeah. Okay. What other debts do you have right now?

25:22 Um, I have a student loan debt that is only 3,000, but that's on deferment right now cuz I'm in school.

25:29 Okay. And then there's one dental debt that I'm still paying back cuz I had to get my teeth fixed. And then um the last one was a previous collection from a credit card when I was like really young that I just had to open and any it's getting taken care.

25:44 Have Have you ever been debtree in your adult life? Um I guess technically not because like I opened my first credit card at 18. It was a student credit card.

25:55 Didn't we all? So, I want I want you to just picture Alicia for the first time in her adult life completely debtree with savings in the bank to cover any emergency that would come up. How good would that feel?

26:07 No, it would feel really great. It's it's a thing you don't have right now, which is peace.

26:12 Yeah. Right. And trust in when I'm having a good day, I'm having a bad day, I'm having a really really wild week or really low week, I'm okay. It's it's a magic feeling for somebody in your situation. It's a magic feeling for all of us, but especially for somebody whose inner world can be as volatile as yours is, right?

26:33 Yeah. Yeah. It's beautiful. Do you have any money in your checking account or savings account right now?

26:38 Um, in my savings, I only have like 10 bucks right now, unfortunately. I do have um 200 in cash savings, but that I was saving for like emergencies for my pet if something happens with her.

26:50 Okay. Well, let me walk into the baby steps because this is the framework that will help you actually have a very tactical plan instead of just trying to do a few good things at once. And so, baby step one is get $1,000 saved. So, you have 200 now. That's awesome. We're on the path to getting a,000. So, right now, can you make minimum payments on your debts while working part-time or do we need to up the the income?

27:13 Um, it's most if I do minimum payments and everything, it is doable. What's the income right now?

27:18 Okay. Now, minimum payments on that payday loan, that balance grew since we've been on the phone.

27:24 Yeah, that's the scary part. And so, I want you to get angry at this thing. And that might mean we need to take a semester off and go really hard and work 50 hours a week to at least knock out the payday loan.

27:36 Okay. What's the trajectory for this uh program that you're in? How much longer and how much money? Um, so luckily, uh, financial aid covers everything and I've been doing scholarships, so I haven't had to pay for a penny for school, luckily.

27:49 Um, and how much longer do you have? I I believe it is two years. So, here's the bad news. You can't go two more years working part-time as a waitress and make any financial progress. Would you agree?

28:03 Probably. Yeah. And so, we need to figure out a different path. Maybe it's a pause. Maybe you do less school right now, less credits, and it takes you longer, but you could go work full-time and clean this up, get some money in savings, and then go back to school with a whole lot more peace. Cuz right now, it's probably hard to focus on your schoolwork when you see that interest acrewing on that loan.

28:25 Yeah, definitely. So, once you get a,000 bucks saved, which I hope happen, what do you make in a week? Um, so just to average it out, probably like 300. There are some weeks where I can get up to like 500, 700, but you know, that's not always guaranteed.

28:43 So you're living off of like $1,200 a month. Yes. Are you able to do that without going further into debt right now?

28:51 Uh, yes. So luckily, just because of my low income, you know, I have uh food stamps and I'm able to get food and everything. My living situation is basically just pay what you can. So I have no rent. So so far it's actually been really doable and I have like a really cheap phone plan where it's only like 25 bucks a month.

29:10 Wow. Well, I don't want you to stay there. This is not like a Well, I can make it all work. You're in survival mode. This is literal poverty. And that that's the exact target demo these payday lenders go after because they're the most vulnerable, the most desperate. And so this is going to take a lot of work, literal work. And that might mean we get two waitress jobs and you know, we ratchet down on school, ramp up on income just for even a season so that we can get our head above the water.

29:42 Okay? Cuz once you have that $1,000 saved, now we can start tackling these debts and just list them out from smallest to largest. So today, this is going to really help you get it out of your brain. put them all the debts on paper and put the balances and list them in order from the smallest balance to the largest balance. So, your next goal after getting a thousand dollars is throw as much as you can on that smallest debt.

30:03 Okay. That might be the dental debt. I don't know. And maybe I'm guessing your credit is shot at this point. No one's going to go give you a personal loan, correct?

30:12 Yeah. No. Um I I know my score is like 625, but I don't think anybody's going to give me a loan or anything.

30:19 Yeah. I was trying to get you out of this payday loan cycle because if this is going to be another year before you can attack this payday loan, the balance is going to be 10 grand.

30:28 Yeah. Yeah. We have to stop the bleeding. And if that means the the dream of the HR job is on pause, I'm okay with that cuz I don't want you to look up and now it feels hopeless because this loan just keeps doubling and doubling because it's three or 400% APR. I'm so sorry you're going through this, Alicia. Hang on the line. And we're going to hook you up with our budgeting app, Every Dollar, to help you make a plan for every one of those dollars coming in. And hopefully, you'll see some light at the end of this tunnel soon.

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33:05 Karen is in Denver up next. Karen, welcome to the show. Thank you. How can John and I help?

33:14 So, this year my husband and I would like to start saving for retirement. Um, but in our budget, we only have about 500 a month to put towards that. Um, so my question is, is it better for us to open one Roth IRA and put the full 500 in each month or for each of us to get one and split it in half or if there's if that makes a difference at all?

33:43 Well, as far as growth goes, it'll be the exact same. Okay. Now, are you guys in a financial place to invest? Do you have any debt right now outside of a mortgage? No, we don't have debt. Um, we have a emergency fund and the reason our budget is lower for retirement is we're trying to save for a house this year. So, we're pretty much putting everything we can towards saving for down payment and closing cost and all that.

34:14 Got it. So, you're in what we would call baby step 3B where you're you can sort of split the difference here. You can choose your own adventure and invest anywhere from 0 to 15%. While saving up for that down payment. So, how long is the down payment going to take?

34:29 Um, we're hoping we can do it in the next 12 months. Awesome. And so, after that 12 months is over, you guys get into a home. Would you then ramp that up to 15% of your household income? And could you?

34:42 Um, we live in a pretty expensive place. Um, so I don't know if we could do the full 15%, but I think we would like to increase it over time as we can.

34:53 Okay. How expensive are we talking? Because when you say we're going to save up a down payment, we're going to buy a home, how much is this mortgage going to be in comparison to your take-home pay? Um so for the area we live in, pretty much the the cheapest houses we can get is between 400 and 450. So that's our goal.

35:16 Okay. Um, and my husband, he a lot of his work is commission, but the goal would be to make about 150 this year before taxes.

35:30 Okay. Are you working outside the home as well? Um, I'm make I'm just bringing in between like 500 and 1,500 a month.

35:40 Okay. So, let's add another 10 or 12 to that. 150. Yeah. Okay. Mhm. So, here's the good news is you guys have a great income and I hope you're able to get that house within 12 months. My fear is that if you if it's too tight to invest 15%, it's always going to feel too tight and that's going to leave you guys with, you know, probably needing to work later in life in order to catch up on retirement.

36:07 Mhm. So, that's something I would consider. You can plug some numbers into an investment calculator to get a a a better picture of what that's going to look like. But, you know, you guys are young, you got time, just make it a goal to get to that 15% mark. And that might mean we need to cut other expenses. That might mean we can't afford to live in the area we wanted to. It might mean you need to be working part-time or full-time in order to make the numbers work. And so whatever you guys do, uh, make peace with that decision and hopefully you'll get to that baby step four mark in no time. Silas is in De Moines up next. What's going on, Silas?

36:43 Hey, uh, I appreciate you guys taking my call. Um, it was actually your book, George, that got me to take financial situations a lot more seriously. So, I appreciate that.

36:54 Awesome. Love to hear it, man. So, what's serious now? What did you get serious about?

37:01 Uh, well, we've been trying to me and my wife have been trying to be better about budgeting. I haven't had the best time with that. But recently, we found out that um we have some settling going on underneath our house and our foundation is dropping a little bit and we've only got a couple quotes on it so far. The first one was 12,000. Second one was like 24,000

37:27 and we don't have that kind of money and so just not sure what the best ways to h best way is to handle this. knowing that it could get worse, but not knowing how fast it could get worse. And

37:40 yeah, how much money do you have saved? Thousand dollars. Okay. And you still have some debt to pay off?

37:47 Uh yeah, we've got just a little over $9,000 of debt. Okay. And what's your household income?

37:54 Uh 60,000, give or take. Is that both of you working? Uh no, just me. Just you. Okay. Is she home with the kids? Yeah, she's home with our our son.

38:06 Okay. So, I imagine money is already tight as it stands, let alone thinking about, you know, because if if if you need to, you know, solve this problem within 6 months, let's say, well, you need to save two grand for 6 months straight to get 12 grand to make the repair.

38:21 You tracking with me? Yeah. Yeah. And that feels like it's going to be a lot from your take-home pay. So, this might be a season where we say, "Hey, we're going to pause the the baby steps if this is a really urgent matter." And within six months, we need to scrape together 12 grand.

38:36 Okay. Yeah. We've been spending today was the first day we've been trying to find uh extra work. I'm trying to find extra work. She she applied at a place and and so we're trying to find find that. I just don't know. Would I don't cuz the other issue I have is um I don't I'm not 100% certain if we can afford the house even without the issues.

39:00 Oh wow. Like a mortgage itself. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz our mortgage payment with escrow is like 1,400 and I bring home about three grand a month.

39:10 You bring home three grand? I'm already concerned about Yeah. I'm already concerned about that, but I don't know if she's as concerned about that.

39:18 How do you make 60, but you take home 36 grand? 60 is some with bonuses. I get a couple bonuses a year.

39:27 Okay. Uh, and then in the past I've had a lot more overtime work, not as much this last year.

39:33 I think we're going to need some in the present and the future until we get to a better spot financially. And so I would have her working if she's able to. I think you're going to need to ratchet up the overtime and maybe a part-time job on top of that

39:46 because right now I don't think the mortgage is the the big problem here. I think long term you get your income a little higher, we can make this work. If you're making, you know, five or six grand a month

39:56 now, these numbers aren't aren't that scary. It's not like you have a $4,000 mortgage payment, that's a reasonable, you know, you're going to pay $1,400 bucks in rent somewhere.

40:05 And so, this is I would Do you have a professional that's looked at it who said, "Hey, this you need to deal with this within this time frame."

40:13 That's what we're working on. uh mostly the the two companies we've had come out, they come are just like it, you know, they don't know how fast it's necessarily progressing or how bad it actually is. So, we thought about we've been uh thinking about trying to find a maybe just a local inspector or something like that that can come and maybe try to get

40:32 100% do that because a foundation repair company has a job and that is to they put all those little sensors out and they say it's not perfectly level and we can fix it for this much money. But get an inspector out. it's worth the four or 500 bucks you're going to pay to bring him out and say, "Is this a thing I have to do right now or is this a thing I need to do in five years?" And let him tell you.

40:56 Mhm. That would be money well spent just for your peace of mind. Mhm. And then maybe you track it and go, "Hey, here's how it's progressing based on what he said. And if it gets to this point, we got we got to make this happen." But I would act like you need to make this happen next month in the fire that's under you guys to get to work and get this money saved.

41:19 Mhm. Okay. And so if that means pausing the baby steps right now because you're in storm mode because it is an emergency, great. Maybe the inspector says, "Hey, I wouldn't worry about this right now. I'd check back in a year." Well, that gives you some breathing room to go, "Okay, we can knock out our debt and get this foundation repair money saved up."

41:35 Mhm. So, we need a a few more facts here to give us some peace about the next steps, but I think you're well on your way. Um, the income is really the the glaring issue here. And the good news is that's fully in your control. It's not going to be fun, but for 6 months or a year, you can do just about anything and suffer through it and live to tell the tale. So, I wish you guys the best on the journey to debt freedom and a smooth, stable foundation, literally and figuratively.

42:27 I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you. Your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did. We got Netswuite. That was years ago.

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43:40 That's netsweet.com/ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Dr. John Deloney and we're taking your calls at88255225. You call us up, we'll help you take the right next step for your money, your relationships, and your life. Ryan is in Flint, Michigan. Up next, Ryan, what's your question today?

44:17 Uh, how you doing, gentlemen? Uh, God bless. Um, I have a few questions, but the main one I'm trying to get through is that I we've been listening me and the wife been listening to um Dave Ramsey's uh Total Money Makeover. I listened to one of his seminars about uh Baby Steps and we were trying to dial in a few things. Um, now I don't know if you want me to go into how much we make and how much debt or not to help with these questions.

44:44 Well, you tell me the question and then we'll dig in with some follow-ups. All right. Thank you, sir. Um, first one is that I know you guys said something about a savings should be around 1,000. We have about 9,000 in our savings and we have a car, the one car that we have that's debt that we want to pay off and that's roughly around 10 to 11,000.

45:02 Okay. And it's and we're just kind of not used to not having some kind of um I guess old crap money to fall back into. And um

45:09 is that your only debt? Um, no. We have the car. And as I've been listening to the books and what you guys say, I've been lied to, so you must excuse me about this, but we have the car. We have two lease trucks. Our biggest is our house and our mortgage. And then from what I understand, we have two loans that we took out on our 401, our Roth. But we pay oursel back on those ones.

45:34 Well, yeah. But you unplugged all the growth and paying interest, so Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I'm less concerned about your OO crap emergency fund and more more of your OO crap debt that you guys have racked up. How much do you guys make?

45:47 Uh between me and my wife total probably around 200. Wow, that's a great income.

45:54 Yeah, we're just not great. So, I mean, we ran into some issues. We moved in and we outlived, let's just say we outlived what we had and what we had coming in until we got to the point where we were just about underwater. Uh the wife had 34,000 I think on her cards. I took the loan out of my 401 to pay her card off. She took another loan out to pay the credit card off. So once the credit card was paid off, I thought, well, man, we should be getting an extra $1,000 to $1,500 a month. And it just didn't start equating to that.

46:21 It just disappeared into more spending, lifestyle, into more. You got it 100%. That's the American dream right there. You summed it up. Okay. So, you've been robbing Peter to pay Paul, playing whack-a-ole, taking out one debt to pay off the other debt. What is your question today specifically that we can help with?

46:37 Okay, so once we pay off the car with the savings that we have now, do we just keep a th000 in there or because of our expenses, say our mortgage and whatnot, should we keep a little bit more money than a,000 in there?

46:51 The $1,000 does not change based on expenses or income. It's a flat $1,000 and it's not meant to cover everything. And so if something did occur where you needed more than $1,000 to cover an emergency, you would simply pause the baby steps and that next check that comes in, you would use toward the emergency. You'd sell stuff. You'd work extra. You would cut your lifestyle down to nothing until you got through the emergency. And now we're back to the baby step two, paying off our consumer debts.

47:22 Excellent. And now the next one would be so obviously from what you said I should not we should not be borrowing from our 401 because of the interest we'd be missing out on the accumulated interest.

47:32 Yeah, there's like 14 reasons why it's a bad idea, but we won't get into that today. Just if are you committing live in front of America that you are done borrowing money? That's the big question I have for you. No more leases, no more 0% cards, no more borrowing from retirement. Are you guys done with debt?

47:49 Yeah, we're done. That's kind of where 100% I I'm more committed than I would say my wife's committed too and I'm very committed on it because I'm tired of living the paycheck to paycheck life. That's just for what we make and what we do, we should be able to be fine and live way better and you know at least have more money in the savings. So I'm 100% committed. It's just these few of these questions that I'm having. I'm trying to rationalize in my head to get my head around wrap around how I how you guys want us to do this.

48:15 Have you guys ever created a budget together where you actually sat down and said, "All right, here's the paychecks coming in. Here's all of our expenses for the month. We're going to track our transactions.

48:23 Sir, we just had we've been married we've been together almost 20 years and about maybe two two and a half years ago, we just put our accounts together.

48:30 Wow. Congrats. Yeah. Welcome to the big leagues. Yeah, I know, right? And that's when we paid off the debt and that's when we started, you know, okay, we need to accumulate. So, primarily what we do right now is most of our stuff comes out of our uh savings account, checking account and then we like for groceries and other things that we have to buy for the most part goes to the credit card and then we just pay the credit card off every

48:54 Oh, we've there's a new character has entered the scene here. The credit cards. Tell me about those.

48:59 Yes, sir. How many do you have and is there a balance? It's just one and there's usually there's only the balance for the week prior which is gas if we get groceries and that's pretty much about it. So, we put gas, groceries, there may be a few other bills I'm I'm have to look to see that goes on, but we pay it off pretty much every week with every check. We don't occur a balance and let the balance hold on it because we just paid off 34,000. So, we're not trying to get a balance on it. So, we pretty much pay it off every week regardless.

49:24 Wow. So, we're just You told me you're not going to borrow money, but you're okay temporarily borrowing someone else's money with the promise of paying it back within the week. It's like, "Hey, bro, bro, I got you. I got you." At the end of the week,

49:35 essentially, right? And so here's my challenge to you, and I put this in my book, Breaking Free from Broke. It's a 30-day no credit card challenge where you put the thing in a block of ice, you put it in a drawer you don't have access to, and just for 30 days only use a debit card or even cash envelopes. And the goal is, let's see, if you didn't have more peace in your life, if you didn't create more margin to throw at the debt, if you didn't miss the credit card rewards you thought you were getting. And what I found is most people go, "Oh my gosh, instead of the 2% cash back, I spent 10% less than I was spending."

50:10 Yeah, that sounds about right. And we only did this because of my financial My 401k guy said to do this. And and the main the main question,

50:18 what is a 401k guy? You have a financial adviser told you to open the credit card.

50:23 That's exactly what he said. He said we should have everything going onto the credit card that we pay and then just pay that off. Is that the same dude that gave you the 401k loan?

50:33 Uh, no. That was from I did that from Fidelity for my work because I get work and matching and I'm able to just go in there myself and take out. But that was he told me that's what I should do in order to pay the credit card off.

50:44 I say this with all due respect. You got to fire that guy before the day is over and get a new guy.

50:48 I' I've been feeling like that. I just told my wife today the other day. Just the other day I told her I go's just not right with what our what what this guy is doing and I'm just not feeling right about it.

50:59 You've been following his advice for years and you're broker than ever. Yeah. Yeah. I can't I can't deny.

51:05 Are you guys still investing as well? My guess is you're still putting some money into retirement.

51:10 I am at 8% I think I get a three and a half to 4% match from work and my wife is roughly around the same. Um, we rolled over a previous 401 into this Roth with this guy.

51:21 Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't know you could contribute to your retirement once you take a loan against it until it's paid back.

51:29 I can contribute. Yeah, the contribute. Nope. It mine is is it takes a certain portion out on top of my percentage that I'm putting in for the match.

51:38 Well, here here's another thing I would encourage you to do is to stop all investing until this mess is cleaned up. Because right now you're doing 17 things at once and you're not seeing progress on any of it.

51:49 I gotcha. With a debit card, you're saying just go to debit card and just don't even worry about credit cards then.

51:54 Exactly. I've been living that life for like 13 years. Uh I'm going to send you a copy of Breaking Free from Broke. I cover the whole debit card credit card thing in the credit card chapter. So read that and I'm going to hook you up with every dollar. This is going to be like John and I in your pocket coaching you 247 with new recommendations based on where you're at financially and educating you along the way. So hang on the line. We'll get you the book and every dollar. I'm rooting for you, Ryan. This is a solvable problem. You make $200,000. There's no reason to be this broke.

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53:52 10% off up to a $250 value. See store for details. Jamie is in Chicago up next. Jamie, welcome to the show.

54:15 Hey, George. Hi, John. How are you? We're doing great. How can we help today? So, um I've been following uh the plan for quite a while. I got rid of my car. I paid down all my debt. The only two things I have left are my student loan debt and my mortgage. Awesome.

54:32 My mortgage I owe 98,000 on and unfortunately on my student loans I owe today 142,000.

54:41 Last Wednesday I learned that my position at my job is going to be eliminated. Oh man.

54:48 And I will be without a job on February 1st or on 2nd. And um I am kind of freaked out.

54:57 Yeah, I feel like you have a right to be I don't have I only have about 25 and uh 401k and um obviously I'd want to get that student loan debt out of the way, but with uh my separation, I'll get a seance package, but it's only going to be about 16,000 and that's before taxes. So I am not sure. So that floats you three months. What do you think?

55:24 Yes. Yes. Three months. Okay. What do you do? I am a facility planner for a guy who's not very

55:34 basically I manage for a large healthcare company. I manage uh the plans before plans and where people sit and

55:42 Okay. department allocations, things like that. You help. What is your chance of getting a new job quickly? Um, I hope. Well, good. But I It took me a couple of years to get that job.

55:54 Okay. So, um, John, I'm glad you're on this call. You'll understand this. I was on disability for some years and, um, was able to get back into the job market

56:06 and, uh, this was the position I landed and it's been a really good position for me. I work from home.

56:12 Yeah. So, um, I'm kind of nervous about, you know, kind of the things that go around with social anxiety and those kinds of things. So,

56:20 so I'm I'm going to give you a word problem. I'm going to give you a word. It will be, but I'm going to give you a word

56:27 that most it might cause some people listening to inhale sharply. Okay. Okay. But I'm telling you this word because I believe in you and I trust in you. Okay. You have an absolute emergency on your hand.

56:46 Yes. And agreed. And you have proven to yourself, you have documented evidence over the last few years that you are not who you once were.

57:00 Exactly. And these kind of big events, a job loss, a somebody passing away who we care about, our body wants to drag us right back into this is how we always handle things.

57:14 Right. And what you have a bonafide emergency and you've got a tiny little runway to land the plane. Right.

57:23 Right. And so what we're not going to do is turtle up. We're not go We're gonna grieve the heck out of this thing, but I'm gonna say this and it's gonna sound crazy. We're gonna grieve it later. What we're gonna do is start applying for jobs like mad. And we're not looking for careers. We're not looking for exact replicas. We're not looking for perfect work from home situations. We're looking for two jobs that we're going to go to in the morning and in the evening. And we're going to feel the social anxiousness. We're going to feel it. And then we're going to go through it because we have an emergency on our hands. And on the other side of this, you're going to be so freaking strong

58:03 that the landscape of jobs available to you will double or triple in scope. You get what I'm saying?

58:10 Yes, I do. It's going to be hard. It's going to be scary. And your body's going to want to go back to what it has done in the past, which is turtle up and just um and wave the white flag. And we're not doing that this time. You've come too far.

58:22 Exactly. And that's exactly why I'm calling because I felt like um I was my my instinct was to go back to that old thinking and it's like no, I've come so far. Why would I do that? I need

58:33 We're going to apply for coffee shop jobs. We're going to apply for maintenance job. We're going to apply for waitress jobs. Everything. Everything.

58:40 Okay. Everything. Cuz because what you need right now is a a reason to get up in the morning.

58:45 And b you need money. Think about this. If you could work so hard that you didn't need to touch the 16k, you could throw that whole thing at the debt once you get some stability.

58:56 That's the goal. You're going to be on cloud n. Yeah, exactly. That's what I was thinking. And I just want to make sure that I'm doing the right thing.

59:04 Now, you're not a bad person if you touch the 16 grand. I'm not mad if you use the severance, but how cool would it be if you didn't and it really propelled your baby steps instead of waiting 3 months, the money runs out, and you go, "Well, I guess I need to find a job now."

59:18 That's not going to help anything. So, I'm not going to do that. We're going to apply for fancy jobs and and you know the difference what I'm saying. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but we're going to go get waitress jobs, Home Depot jobs, whatever. And we're going to apply for the facility management jobs. These bigger picture things. They're going to take longer. They have longer processes. We're going to apply for those in the evenings and at night.

59:38 Okay, sounds good. We're going to send you Ken Coleman's Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It has the Get Clear Career Assessment in there. And what it's really going to help you do is figure out, hey, what are the skills behind the work I've been doing that I really love and enjoy and I'm good at and what other roles can I apply that to? Because right now you're thinking, I need I'm going to type in these key words. And I think there's so many underlying skills you can take a logistical nightmare and clean it up and organize it.

1:00:04 Sure. That's an amazing skill to have that you can apply into anything. Project management, that would be a great field for you. What is your degree in? I have a degree in interior design and a degree in psychology.

1:00:17 I love it. Have you pursued interior design at all as a career? I did and that's kind of why it took me so long to find this job because I felt like um I wanted a very specific commercial job and it just wasn't happening. So then I was I found this job, a recruiter job. Well, on top of your uh you know your job shopping, I'd contact 10 interior design companies in your area and say, "Hey,

1:00:42 I have a degree in interior design. I'm ready to start tomorrow." Okay, I will do that.

1:00:48 I mean, you got the degree in it. You spent a pretty penny to get it. Might as well give it your best shot. This might be the the on-ramp you needed to go. I needed to get laid off in order to go pursue the thing that I really wanted to do.

1:01:00 But here's your key word, okay? We're going to go go. We're going to act. There will be no hours left unspent twiddling our thumbs.

1:01:08 Yeah. You're going to you're going to close your computer screen and go for a quick walk around your neighborhood and you're going to put your head on your pillow exhausted because you've been working so hard.

1:01:16 The energy has to go somewhere, right? It can paralyze you or you can do it to solve this present emergency.

1:01:26 Exciting. She's she's paralyzed in excitement right now. That's so great, Jamie. Thank you for the call. John, let let's talk about this because a lot of people, we talked about this on the show, that it's it's like losing a loved one, like the grief of losing a job. Yes. And the the shame, the guilt, the fear. It's like all the emotions.

1:01:44 And in her situation, having a diagnosed anxiety condition, the thing about anxiety that's the worst is the only way through it is through it. And so, you're going to have all of this these feelings. You're going to have all these emotions. She has an emergency. And millions of Americans have an emergency. And what many people do when there's an emergency is either they run around bananas or um it's creating more mess or they just take their foot off the gas, put the car in park and exhale. And she doesn't have that luxury. She owes a couple hundred,000 in various things, right? So, we're going to have some direction. We're going to go get a job, get some money, get some connections.

1:02:21 We're going to apply for some jobs. We're going to read a book. We're going to have coffee with somebody who's in a job adjacent. We're going to go do a bunch of stuff. And the weight of this, dude, I got fired. They took my job away. That took my life away. Will be there, but we're gonna We don't have the luxury of just stopping for a season. We got to go get a job and we're gonna go go go go go go go.

1:02:40 I love that. An object at rest stays at rest. Once you stop, it is so hard to get moving again.

1:02:46 Yes. You get comfy. You get your favorite blankie. You're watching your favorite Netflix show and you go, "Well, that's a problem for tomorrow." Me.

1:02:55 Yeah. It's hard, George. If I'm If it's like nine o'clock, I go to bed early because I'm a nerd. and I sit on the couch and just say, "I'm going to watch one show." It is so hard to get up from the couch and just go to my room to bed. Yeah. Right. I should have just stayed up and gone to bed and got the extra 30 minutes or 45 minutes of sleep. Similar here, man. If you exhale and be like, "Well, I've got this 16 grand." That 16 grand will be gone before you can sneeze and now you're going to be in a real mess. So, you got a job. You're they're taking your job away in a month. Tiny little severance. It's time to hit the gas and go.

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1:05:03 One of our favorite things is hearing people share their stories of how they're winning with money. And we just heard this from Claren Winston. This is me and my husband's third month budgeting with the Every Dollar app. And I'm amazed how much money we've found. We went from feeling like we were living paycheck to paycheck to finding $3,500 of extra margin each month to put toward our debt. We each had four credit cards and have been able to pay them all off, never going back. We love to hear stories like that. And the truth is, you can do this, too. That's not just a Claren Winston thing. That's an anyone thing. You can take control of your money. You can change your family tree and live like no one else. And it starts by downloading the Every Dollar Budgeting app for free in the App Store or Google Play. Go see how much extra margin you can find with a little bit of that coaching and encouragement. Lee is

1:05:50 in San Antonio up next. What's going on, Lee? Hi. Hey. How can we help? Well, so my question, I'm a little unique. So, I went through a divorce in 2024. Um, and by the grace of God, um, as of the holiday season of this year, we are reconciling and God's restoring our marriage.

1:06:11 Wow. Um, yeah, it's really beautiful. Um, my question, however, has to do with, so um, when we were married before, um, I was not great in the financial department. Um, my husband was with the same company for almost 20 years. Hard worker, always provided. I kind of jumped from job to job. wasn't the best with the money. Um, racked up a $10,000 credit card, all of that. So, over the past year, while we were apart, um, I, uh, graduated from FPU and have followed Dave Ramsey. Um, and I've, I'm working with a company right now to pay off my credit card. So, I'm hopeful that in within the next couple months that will be paid off. So, I will myself be debtree. Um, my question really is, I know that Dave is pretty vocal about his opinion that when a couple is married that there is no my money, it's our money. So, understandably given my past behavior, um, my husband is a little hesitant to go back to comingling our

1:07:13 funds. So, I'm just kind of looking for some guidance on how he and I can navigate that this time. Um, just, you know, as we that trust is built back up. Um, and maybe just some guidance on how to navigate this this season.

1:07:28 What other trust was broke in your previous time together? Um, well, there was no infidelity or anything like that. Um, I honestly the story my story is that I really just um was in a really bad place. I believed a lot of lies about myself and my marriage and um the enemy convinced me that it was right to leave. And so I just did. I just picked up one day and I left. I didn't there was there was no seeking God in any of that. So really the trust that was broken was just me giving up on us.

1:08:02 Okay. So I want you to hear his hesitancy as not about money. It's deeper than that.

1:08:13 Okay. if if if it was a surprise to him, not that y'all were in a tough season, not that, you know, you were struggling or anything like that. Um, but if it shocked him when you walked in and said, "I'm out."

1:08:28 I want you to see that for what it was, which is you pulled a pin on a grenade and rolled it into his life and exploded it.

1:08:36 Yeah. Right now, every couple co-creates their relationship. That is what it is. Right. So, I'm sure he's would sit here and tell me he's not perfect. I get all that. But if you're going to truly say we're reconciling, you can't. There is no reconciliation. There is no I mean, you can get remarried. You can do whatever you want, but there's not a true remarage if both of you don't have your feet in the boat. And at the same time, he's still living. He still has fresh scars from when this person he's getting back into the boat with shot a hole in the middle of the boat and then swam to another shore. You get what I'm saying?

1:09:15 Of course. And so here's the path back. The path back is will you give me being him to you a very clear road map that I can follow to reestablish trust because trust will not be reearned in huge grandiose moments. It will be earned in a thousand tiny little ways over time.

1:09:38 Yeah. And the commitment here is we're going to do this every 30 days, every 60 days. And it's not you graveling. It's not like how am I doing? Do I get an A on trust this month? It's not that. It is I want a clear path back. If we're going to really get remarried, we're going to go all in on this thing again. Both of us have to put our feet in the boat. And you'd be crazy to do that all the way. I get that. So, I'm going to ride in your boat for a while. like I'm going to ride shotgun with you. What does a path to reestablish trust look like? And he's going to lay that path out and then you get to decide whether I'm going to follow that or not.

1:10:13 Yeah. Right. And and here's the other thing. If he says I'm in, he's got to be allin, too. Which means he has to risk that the person he's marrying does this to him again. That's the risk of any great marriage and any great relationship at all. Right? is that you could get hurt.

1:10:34 So, he needs to give you a path. You need to ask him, not, "Hey, why aren't you sharing our money? You don't trust me." And not you heading hanging your head in shame saying, "I'm not trustworthy." We're past that. We're going to start establishing this. What does a path look like for me to reestablish trust? And let's take infidelity. Sometimes people say, "I want to see your phone every night. I want us to get new phone plans. I want us to change our numbers. I want you to cancel all your social media. And here's the thing, the person who got cheated on can lay out whatever path they want. And then the other person gets to decide whether I'm going to follow that path or not. Whether I want to be a part of this relationship or not. And when that when you start walking that path, they can't weaponize the past because they have said, "I'm in this too."

1:11:20 Yeah. and and reestablishing money like sharing your money together is part of me and my wife share a single account. George and his wife do Dave and Sharon like the people that I know or that are successful and the data bears it out. Couples who share finances do better because not because not just because of the money but that means they share a picture on what they value, where they want to go with their life, what their shared vision is. Like all that stuff gets wrapped up in we all know where the money is and and all that. So, it's just you humbly asking for a clear roadmap.

1:11:52 And we're going to do one at 30 days. We're gonna do one at 60 days. We're going to do one at 90 days. And we're going to continue to work down this path together until both of you feel safe enough in your guts that both feet are in this boat and we are rowing the same direction.

1:12:05 Yeah. Can I give you some ideas, Lee, some tactical things you could do that might it might make him go, "Who are you?"

1:12:11 Number one, cut up all of your credit cards and close all the accounts. Okay? And then all of them

1:12:18 here here's the baller move. You freeze your credit and you give him the the passcode so that you can't open any type of account. You can't take on any type of debt if your account is frozen, if your credit's frozen. And then on top of that, say, "Hey, you know what? We're going to have a joint account, but I don't want the debit card right now." And we're going to turn on transaction alerts so that anytime anything comes out of the account, we both get a text message of what happened. or to celebrate you guys getting back together, we're going to give you a year of every dollar premium. It will alert each of you if somebody spends something with a debit card.

1:12:51 Okay. Okay. But these are some things you can put on the table when he's like, "What are you talking about? A road map to trust. I'm going to do this thing and this thing and this thing. I want to know a path so that we can reestablish trust in this marriage. All in, both feet in the boat, both of us. Here's what I've already done. Here's what I'm doing now. Here's what I plan on doing. I'd like to check back in. And then maybe you guys agree on a timeline. Hey, we're going to check back in and six months from now if all is good, then we're going to open the floodgates and it's going to be, you know, we're just going to fly and build wealth together. And I, you know, I think that will prove to you more than to him.

1:13:28 That's exactly right. That has changed. I don't trust you right now, Lee. You probably have some shame and guilt and baggage.

1:13:35 Yeah, for sure. And by the way, you have to have the courage to say, "I don't want to re-engage in this marriage if only one of your feet is going to be in the boat." And so you get to say, "One of my one of my bedrocks, one of the thing that's going to be important for us moving forward is that we get back to trusting each other enough to share money, to share whatever." And so, but I also know that's a tough, scary thing right now. So, I need a path. But you get to say, "This is a big deal to me." Not just, "I'm gonna put my head down and go along with whatever he says because I screwed up and I'm I'm just a whipping post." That's not it. It won't work that way,

1:14:13 right? You get what I'm saying? I'm proud of you. Thank you. This is a big step, Lee. And I'm so just inspired by the reconciliation. And I hope that you guys are fully reconciled soon. Full unity, building wealth together like never before with an amazing marriage. So hang on the line. We're going to send you every dollar. That'll impress him. go. Hey, I'm working on my budget this month. You want to take a look like who who is this person or our budget? Now we're talking.

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1:16:36 Today's question comes from Wyatt in Montana. Dude, Wyatt sounds from Montana. I love that name.

1:16:43 We recently started the baby steps and me and my family are on step two. We've been snowballing pretty successfully. He sounds like a Wyatt. We've been snowballing pretty successfully by selling stuff and we're making good progress. Our question is that with all the stuff that's going on around the world, how is it rational to stick to this? My instinct is to use extra cash right now to cash flow stocking up on food, ammo, and water. Should we really stick to the baby steps or make sure our family is ready for any unexpected disaster?

1:17:15 Wow. This could have been a question from John Deloney in Nashville. You wish you were Wyatt in Montana.

1:17:21 I do. I do. Okay. So, there's a part of this that I understand, which is, hey, there's some crazy stuff going on. Should we just stockpile some cash in case? Cuz we got debt. If he's on baby step two, it means he has $1,000 to his name and savings. The rest is going towards consumer debt. So, is this a storm mode where you go, we got to batten down the hatches and just save up money? I'm going to say no. Should you stick to the steps? Yes. Should you make sure your family's ready for unexpected disaster? That's the part we need a definition on.

1:17:51 Right. Right. And so if your unexpected disaster is the air conditioner going out, the um you losing your job, um the stock market crashing, not owing anybody any money is a really great place to find yourself. Having no other payments other than we have to scratch and claw our way to right to pay our bills. there's a real disaster in front of you, which is the debt, the mess that you made. And so, I'm not going to focus on what could be and is there going to be, you know, World War III and it's all going to come down and that therefore I'm going to hang on to my debts forever. That's a terrible way to live.

1:18:27 Yeah. And the um I I just again I quote my friend who who told me this years ago, but I don't have a meteorite plan. I do I have a lot of meat in the freezer. Well, hunting season just wrapped up here. So, like I do, right?

1:18:45 Am I going to Delon's house if something goes down? Absolutely. He would never make it. But like, um, do we have unrealistic stockpiles of water, etc.? No. Because if if the water local municipal water gets cut off, we're going to have a whole different issue going on, right? And so, I think people like to say think our our family's life is going to be like this just minus these things. It will not be. it will be such utter wild apocalyptic chaos that Right. So, um it is easy to get distracted when you're doing when you when you get past the energy stage, George, like the it's it's like the January 15th at a gym like already starting to fall off because everyone got excited. They started their first workouts. They even got sore the first couple ones. They feel like they're doing something and then about January 15th, you're like, "Oh, I just have to do this forever." And it just goes w and

1:19:35 so it's real easy when you're in baby step two. You're selling stuff. You're feeling it, paying debts off that you look up and you're like, "Oh, we have two more years of this. Four more years of this. What about water, right? Stay the path. Stay on the path."

1:19:52 The other thing is, dude, you live in Montana, not Gaza. Like, let's not act like it's all coming down in Montana. Like, there's some there's some scary places. There's some scary things happening. Montana's fine right now. And so unless there's imminent danger in your area, I would stick to the plan. And if something really did happen, sure, you can pause the baby step, stack up cash. I don't think the apocalypse is on the list right now.

1:20:15 And Montana's probably one of the places where you'd want to find yourself. If it all went down, I would love to be in Montana.

1:20:21 Don't tell the zombies. They'll go there first. They'll never make it. Tim is in Los Angeles up next. What's going on, Tim?

1:20:29 Hey, uh, I was curious. Me and my wife are getting ready to pay uh well pay off our $148,000 worth of debt.

1:20:36 Woo. And um yeah, I know, right? Uh, and I was trying to kind of see what's next cuz we do have like, you know, a threemonth like quote emergency fund, but um, you know, we're trying to wonder too like with these Trump accounts, uh, should we just inst like if they happen, great. But, you know, we're trying to figure out like should we start investing like in a high yield savings or something like that for our kid now who's doing April.

1:21:02 So, you're in baby step two, you've already done baby step three, and you want to skip to baby step five. Did I hear? Yeah. Okay.

1:21:11 I would I would do them in order, which is take your emergency fund and let's focus on the emergency at hand, which is the debt. Could you clear your debts with the amount you have in savings?

1:21:22 Uh yes, we could do it honestly within probably the next like 30 to 60 days. Uh even without the emergency fund. Um and that's kind of like where I'm at. And you know,

1:21:32 then pay off your debt today and spend the next 30 days restocking the emergency fund. Okay,

1:21:39 in Vegas we call that I call so that's one one idea. Number two, once you are through baby step three, you're now a baby step four, which is to put your own mask on and invest 15% in your own retirement.

1:21:57 Uh the other problem is we don't actually own a house at this time, especially here in California. uh it's a little more difficult uh these days but uh and so that's kind of like the underlying question is like do we just pay off the debt and then save you know do that gazilla intensity towards like a house or you know put our child's future ahead of our own.

1:22:18 Well I I don't I don't think any of those are the options. I think you should invest 15% and if it's going to take you a long time to save the down payment, that's okay. If you're going to stay in California long term, it might take you 8 years to save a down payment instead of two,

1:22:33 right? And so that's the math of it. But I would not put any money towards and here's the thing with the Trump accounts. The government is do did you have a child in 2025 through 2028? Is that the plan?

1:22:47 Yes. Okay. So I'm going to open one. And here's why. I would love the free thousand from the government. After all the money I've given them, it's time they give a little back. You don't have to put any money into it. And I personally wouldn't. I did a whole video on this. It's really not super impressive other than the free thousand bucks that will grow from age zero to, you know, 65 into a few hundred grand. That's awesome. Not mad about that. But I would invest for your kids in a 529 plan which has tax advantages of tax-free growth. And if you want to invest outside of that, you could just open up a brokerage account in your name and you can use that to save up for their wedding or, you know, a down payment on a house for them one day.

1:23:29 Right. So, I love the motive behind the 529 plan and the 529 plan. How exactly would you go about that? That's the first time I've even heard of it.

1:23:38 Yeah, there's there's a blog about it on our website and so I'll uh make sure we get you that link and we'll put it in the show notes as well for anyone who's interested. But a 529 plan is just a plan to save for college where you use after tax money and that money then grows taxfree for education purposes. You can withdraw it taxree to use for your kids college and they've even expanded it now. It could be for trade schools and training and supplies and all kinds of things. So it's a great way to save for college with compound growth and some tax advantages. So that's what I'm currently doing for for both of my kids. I put money in there every single month. If they get birthday money from grandma and grandpa, it goes into the 529 account.

1:24:19 But here's the new here's the bad news. If you don't invest for retirement, your kids are going to have to fund it.

1:24:24 And so that's why we tell people to put their mask on first. There's a 100% chance you need to retire one day. 50/50 chance your kids even go to college and graduate,

1:24:34 right? So, you're doing a lot of good things, Tim. You've got a great heart and you're so close. you're on the cusp of this amazing financial foundation. Uh but I would just do the plan in order. It works, man. It works. Pay off the debt today. And if that scares you, that tells me that uh you probably should do it because you'll stack up that cash in no time. If you put, you know, 20 grand towards the debt and now we need 20 grand in the emergency fund. Well, now we're just paying ourselves instead of a lender. I would rather do that any day.

1:25:05 It's hard, John. There's so much you could do. There's so many things that are good things. We want to pay off debt. We want to save. We want to save for the kids. We want to save for retirement. And that's why I love the baby steps. It just takes out all the ambiguity and gives you just a clear, nope, do that first. Nope, do that next. And uh it's what I do. It's what I've done for my family. It's what John does for his. It's just it it I get it though. It gets it feels so hard when um the world's all screaming at you from every different angle. It's hard to just stay the course. Just stay on the path.

1:25:38 And now there's a new one. The Trump account. So now we're distracted. It's like squirrel. It's

1:25:40 like look over here. Look over here. Look over. It's like just the folks that win unhook from the system completely and just follow a different path. And we've laid it out for you. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel here with Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888255225. Teresa is in Indianapolis. Up next, Teresa, what's going on?

1:26:30 Hi, how are you doing? Great. How can John and I help? Well, um, so my mom's 82 years old and she just got hearing aids for $2,000 and, uh, she is asking me and my sisters to help pay the money back that she charged to her credit cards. And, you know, she doesn't she lives on her social security. She never really saved for retirement. And I feel like even every time we go out, she, you know, expects us to pay for the dinners or lunches or whatever we do. And most of the time I do, but not all the time. Um, and I've helped her before with her budget, and I know she could save to pay for this purchase, but how do I approach her about asking for money and the entitlement she obviously feels that we owe her? Oh, what would you do? I'm on baby step two right now and really don't have the money to give her.

1:27:34 Well, I think you're you just answered your own question. I think the part that sounds like it's weighing you down is the stories you're telling yourself about her request. And so if you've offered to pay for dinner a bunch of times,

1:27:50 I don't fault her for just assuming you're going to always pay for it. If you think that's a move on her part and she's done that before and she's always trying to like your whole childhood she was trying to get people to pay for food or whatever, that's another story. But if you're I if if you don't have the money, you can just say, "Hey, mom, I can't I'm I'm working on my own finances. I can't kick in on this time.

1:28:10 That's it." And you can't control what questions she asks you. You can't control her temper tantrums. You can't control the guilt you would feel because you want to be able to do it. You just can't right now. You can't control any of that stuff. What you can control is what you do. The next right move you make, your feelings are going to happen. Like regardless, what's the next right thing? The next right thing is, I can't afford it. I can't help right now.

1:28:32 Have you ever pushed back on her and just said, "Hey, mom, I love you. I want to be honest. I'm not able to give you money anymore. I got to focus on my own financial responsibilities."

1:28:40 I I have I've said to her before, you know, she asked me, you know, why haven't we been doing some stuff as much as we used to? And I said, "Well, mom, I can't afford you." Like every time you go to lunch, it's you expect me to pay and then even when I pay, you know, you don't say thank you and you know, I just I don't have the funds. Like I have to when I think of going out, you know, I have to watch my pennies because I'm trying to, you know, get out of debt.

1:29:06 But can y'all do other things? Can y'all go for a walk? Can you take some dominoes over to her house and pl like

1:29:12 is it have to be things that we spend money on? No, it doesn't. And I've tried to curve it that way as well, too. It just sometimes it's just really hard because I know she's you know she's never really been ahead of the aball with money and you know I just wish I was in a better financial position to help her with these things but you know some of it I I feel like you know she set herself up for this too.

1:29:37 Yeah. But you you just nailed it and that's what I didn't want to say it out loud but you said it so I I want to pull the string a little bit. A lot of this sounds like she's making requests that you as her daughter wish you could just give her the world,

1:29:52 you know, and you can't. And so if you feel guilty, if you feel bummed out, if you feel sad about your own financial situation, man, don't compound that frustration and pain and guilt and yada yada by blaming her. It would be cool if we all had enough money to give our parents whatever we wanted, but most of us don't. and it just stinks. And so we can either just cut off contact, which a whole bunch of people do, which I think is insane. Or we can say, "Hey, I'm going to start coming over to your house on Tuesdays. I'm going to make my coffee at the house and bring over a picture of coffee." Or, "Mom, you make the coffee.

1:30:28 I'm bringing the dominoes. We're going to play." And I can control that part. And it's not as cool as as a hip diner in whatever town and yada yada, but it it'll still be valuable time with your mom that you'll be glad that you spent. What do your siblings feel about this? Are they also wanting to stop the sort of forced giving? Absolutely. Yeah. And we're all in different positions and we all don't have the money right now. Like I have sis one sister has kids in college. The other sister uh just lost a dog and had to um pay for her heater in her house.

1:31:07 and my other sister just had a surgery and I had a surgery last year. So, like here's the better part. You don't have to have a reason.

1:31:15 Yeah. You can just say, "Mom, I can't help out right now. Thanks for thinking of me."

1:31:20 And that's it. And then hang up the phone. And if she chooses not to pay the credit card bill because she won't or can't, then she deals with the consequences of that. It might go to collections. Someone might be harassing her on the phone, telling her she needs to pay or else.

1:31:35 I don't know if you can repo hearing aids. I don't think you can, but maybe. I don't know.

1:31:41 Yeah. But that's the hard part of setting the boundary is it makes you feel bad, but you need to just repeat the boundary and make it clear. Cuz otherwise, if she knows that boundary is flexible, she's going to get over it every time. Every time. So, just hold the line. And about four times in, she's going to go, "Oh, this is a dead end. I'll try another sibling." And if she chooses to opt out of the relationship because of that, the sad part is it was transactional for the, you know, who knows how long before that, does she reach out without money being involved?

1:32:15 Oh, yeah. So, there's a relationship outside of this. There is. Okay, good. And maybe one day you guys are all in a better place and you go, "Hey, we're going to take mom on this amazing trip." But it needs to be on your terms. And right now all of it has been entitlement and guilt instead of man it would be really cool to just cover mom's hearing aids. That'd be a cool gift to her. But if you like her and want to spend time with her, go over to her house with some dominoes and some coffee and some homemade cookies or whatever. And when she asks the question that she's inevitably going to ask, which is, "Can I have some money?" You say, "No, I don't have it, Mom, right now." All right, your turn.

1:32:54 and maybe choose to deal with a couple of awkward questions or annoying questions or guiltinducing questions for the greater sake of the relationship.

1:33:06 But you and your siblings don't need a whole bunch of, "Well, this I got college and I got a sick dog." You don't need all those excuses. You can just together or individually say,

1:33:15 "As for me in my house right now, we're not going to participate, but we love you. We're still going to hang out with you." And she's not going to be on the street. I mean, she's not in dire straits here, right? Does she have other financial problems that are pretty intense or is it just hey, she owes a little bit on her credit card?

1:33:34 No, she just constantly like something happens, she puts it on the credit card. She's just in a cycle. And I've tried like I've worked on her budget before when she let me and you know, I even um bumped it up a little bit so that she didn't realize she was actually saving money. Um, and but now she won't let me, it's been a couple years and she won't let me redo her budget so that I can help her.

1:33:58 She doesn't want you involved on that side. Yeah, that's a sign. If she doesn't want your help getting better with money, she just wants the money, then that's a sign that you need to stop. And maybe one day she opens up again and says, "Hey, listen. I'm struggling. I got collections people calling me. Can you help me figure out a way out of this?" and you go, "Yeah, here's a way out." And it's not going to be you giving her money. It's you showing her how to get out of this once and for all. And maybe that'll get her to stop using a credit card. The hard part is the credit card companies are insane for giving an 82-year-old a line of credit who's living on social security.

1:34:33 Well, they're not insane if their kids are going to pay it back. You know what I mean? Like

1:34:36 it'll get paid out of her estate or collections or it'll be a tax write off one day. Madness. How many times have you started January saying, "This is the year I'm finally going to get my money under control." But then months go by and you still feel broke. You work too hard to keep living like that. Look, there's only one way to move the needle on your finances this year. You've got to have a plan. So, start by downloading Every Dollar. Every Dollar is way more than our worldass budgeting app. In 15 minutes, we'll build you a personalized plan to free up extra margin in your budget and use it to beat debt and build wealth. You'll find thousands of dollars on average just the first day. And you'll get new steps and new lessons every day that help you stay on track and create unstoppable momentum. Don't waste one more day feeling broke and stressed. Get your plan in just 15 minutes by downloading Every Dollar for free today.

1:36:10 John is in Fort Worth, Texas. John, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello. Good afternoon.

1:36:17 How you doing? I'm doing pretty good. I got a good spot to be at, but I still have the question of what do I do? So, I'm wondering where do I go from here? Me and my wife, with our investments and like in the future, we just completed we're basically baby Well, not we are baby step seven now. Just this month paid off the house.

1:36:33 That's amazing. Congrats. What's the house worth? Uh about 300,000. Awesome. And what do you guys have in a retirement?

1:36:42 Uh right now uh because we did put uh basically just like 10% at the time. We just stepped that up or she stepped hers up for a 41k. We're sitting around 155 I think counting hers and mine together.

1:36:55 Okay. But where I currently work, I only have a uh Roth IRA option. They don't have 401k.

1:37:01 They don't have a retirement plan through your employer. Correct. Okay. So, we're doing that. Like I'm We started that last month. I started funding mine for last year and now this year I'm going to end up funding mine and one for her. So, that way it gets me to the uh 15% or actually above it. Just max it out.

1:37:19 Yeah. What's your household income? What's the gross income you guys will bring in this year?

1:37:24 Um 2026 it should be about 150. We were beyond that before because I used to get a lot of overtime, but I changed jobs this year. pay went up a little bit but no overtime.

1:37:36 Okay, cool. So, what's your question? Well, where we go with the uh investments from here? So, after the IRA, after the 401k, we're going to have the house payment plus we were putting up to 17 grand, actually a little more than 17 grand a year uh extra on the house to get the house paid off in 10 years. We actually beat 10. We're at nine years and couple months is what we ended up with.

1:38:00 It's awesome. So, we were still able to live our lives off of that. So, it's like, okay, do I just put it the rest of it in a four uh into a u brokerage account for a uh like a uh S&P 500 or

1:38:12 You said your wife has a retirement plan through her employer. Yes. What is that?

1:38:19 Uh hers is currently a traditional and she said that they were changing that to a Roth.

1:38:25 Okay. But right now we're trying to figure out where we have to do what percentage we have to do out of repay so that way we can max that out which is I believe 18,000.

1:38:33 Well the 401k is closer to 23,000 or 235. So here's the here's the good news. 15% which you can invest more of 150 grand is 225. So you still have the tax advantage options if you both do a Roth IRA this year. I think they just upped it to 7,500 is the cap for each Roth IRA. So that puts you guys at 15 grand there, leaving seven grand to invest. You can do seven grand in her 401k on the Roth 401k.

1:39:03 Yeah. But then after that, like the way I look at it doing the finances, we're going to we're going to eclipse that. We're going to have more than that and you could fully let's try to max out the 401k and max out two Roth IAS. That would be my goal for 2026 if I'm in your shoes. All right. But then do with the extra active app.

1:39:23 So you're saying you're going to invest the 23 plus the 15. That puts you at 38,000 and you're still going to have more to invest.

1:39:32 Um, correct. Yeah. We looked at the we looked at our budget and we were sitting around 47. That was like, okay.

1:39:38 Wow. That's awesome. Yeah. Do you guys have a high deductible healthare plan? No, unfortunately we don't. Unfortunately, we don't. I guess

1:39:46 cuz if you have an HSA, you can invest through that and it sort of becomes a loophole retirement account. So if you don't have that, so I'm kind of going through in my mind what are all of the tax advantaged options and that's going to be your 401k, your IAS, your HSA. If you run out of those options, then you can be investing into a brokerage account in the market.

1:40:09 All right, which is not tax advantage. follow the and that's that's where my question came in because it's like do we still follow the investment recommendation growth growth in income the rest of like or do we just do S&P 500

1:40:21 you could do either I mean S&P 500 is simple and outside of retirement that's a great option that's what Dave would do if Dave gets a big royalty check for total money makeover he's just going to throw it into an index fund

1:40:32 into a brokerage account okay so I would just go that route and how old are you guys

1:40:39 uh I just turned 40 and she's 41. Oh, amazing. Think about that, dude. You're in baby step seven, no payments in the world, investing 40, 50 grand a year. Go pop that into an investment calculator.

1:40:52 You're trying to figure out what to do next. That's what you do next. And you keep doing it year after year. And it's not exciting. And people are going to tell you, "Dude, you need to be more sophisticated and you should put your money here and crypto is going to take off and you should buy real estate." Stick Stick to the plan. Stick to what you know, what you understand, and you will be multi multi-millionaires in retirement.

1:41:16 Hey, that sounds good. Congratulations, man. Never go back into debt. Keep investing as much as you can. And also enjoy your life. You know, we always talk about, John, there's three things you can do with money. Give, save, spend. And it's easy to have too much muscle in one area where like, I'm so good at saving and investing and you realize it's like hoarding.

1:41:36 Yeah. And your giving muscles atrophied and you're spending muscle. Your wife is like, "Dude, we haven't been on vacation in 12 years and we have a paid for house."

1:41:43 That may have been my house. That's John. And also mine right now with a toddler and a newborn. I'm like, I'm not going anywhere. But that's a good reminder. And uh congratulations on baby step seven with the paid for house. Matthew is in Columbus up next. What's going on, Matthew? You with us? We were so close to a great call with Matthew. It was going to be gang busters. All right, we'll try again. Oh, there we are.

1:42:09 Oh, there he is. Hey, Matthew. Took him a second. Hi. How you guys doing? Great. What's your question today?

1:42:15 Yeah, because um trying to refinance the house uh that I got and got a lower rate obviously, but now when I pay over, you know, I want to pay over my mortgage rate. I was told maybe invest that money instead.

1:42:29 Who told you that? Uh a family member. But I was I was under the impression if I can pay off my mortgage faster, I can pay off my mortgage faster and then that just opens up a lot more money in the future.

1:42:41 Yeah, you're right. And uh you know that's what we teach in the baby steps and it's it's what I've done in my personal life.

1:42:46 Me too. And so you can trust the family member, you're going to be you're not you're still going to go to heaven, you know? So like it's not like a this is a but the the Ramsay plan says, hey, if you're in baby step six, which you are, put any extra money toward the mortgage while investing 15%. So, are you investing 15% of your household income right now?

1:43:07 Yes, mandatory. Okay. My job. Cool. And then how much extra can you throw at the mortgage? Like, how fast is this thing going to get paid off if you follow our plan?

1:43:16 Well, it's going to hopefully refinance and I'm hoping to get an extra two payments in a year.

1:43:21 Okay. Have you done my the mortgage payoff calculator on our website to see what that does?

1:43:26 I have not. I only get to listen to the show for like 20 minutes on my commute home.

1:43:30 Oh, well, thank you for hanging with us today. I would tonight when you get home, I would just pop onto our mortgage payoff calculator, see what those extra payments would do, and then have a have a game plan and go, "All right, six years we're going to have this mortgage paid off." And the good news is the mortgage gets freed up, and then you have the rest of your life to invest that payment,

1:43:47 and nobody can come take your house away, which for all all the people who are like, "This is what you need to do. This is what you need to do." I I'm telling you, man, there's something about having a house that is yours that even if your local city jacks up your tax rate on it, it's super annoying, but you don't have a house payment. Like, nobody could take your house, there's something so profound about that safety and security for you and for your family. Yeah, it's more than math. And I've seen the argument, well, I have a 3% rate. Why would I not invest or even put it in a high yield savings account? I get it.

1:44:20 You could make the argument on paper, but those people, they're they're forgetting about the psychological component. And you truly can't explain it to someone unless you do it and live it. That it just is a more peaceful life. I sleep better because I don't have a mortgage payment. And I never think about, man, what could I have made if I invested that money instead of putting it toward the mortgage? I never have thought that once. I just go, cool, I got a freed up mortgage payment. I'm on track to be a multi-millionaire in retirement. Life is good.

1:44:48 All right. Excellent. Yeah, your house. Well, thank you so very much. I appreciate it.

1:44:52 Absolutely. Hey, what's your mortgage payment, by the way? Um, I'm hoping to get it down to uh 125. I mean, you know, 1,250 bucks a month.

1:45:00 12250. Okay, that's fantastic. Is that principal interest taxes insurance all of that? Is that just principal and interest?

1:45:08 Yeah, it's it's all tax. Everything is all wrapped up into one. I would also do some fun math using our investment calculator and go, "All right, six years from now, I'm 46. If I invest that $1,000 principal and interest from 46 to 65, what does that turn into? That's some pretty cool math, too. On top of not having a payment for the next several days.

1:45:28 And nobody's ever said the words pretty cool math except for you, George. Thank you. I like pretty cool math. You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car. But it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsay Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsay trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com/insurance.

1:46:38 Everyone needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to find pros who aren't just looking to make a buck and agents who actually know their stuff. Well, Ramsay Trusted Insurance Pros, they're vetted. They're coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interests at heart. Aka, they're not going to sell you crappy products that we would never recommend. So, if you want to learn more, go to ramseolutions.com/co to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent. Silus is in Tampa up next. Silus, welcome to the show.

1:47:10 Thank you for having me. Sure. How can we help? Um, so I have a uh Chevy Colorado and I owe 36,000 on it. And my wife's car, she has a Toyota CH, excuse me, a Toyota CHR, and she just had a transmission. It didn't go out, but the dealership told her that it's bad. And they don't know how long it'll last. So, it's about $13,000 to fix. And we're 22, both of us are, and we're just trying to get our finances in order. And I want to get rid of the truck or I want to do something with the truck. I just looking for advice what I can do with it.

1:47:47 Okay. What's your household income? Um, I make we work at the same job. Um, we I make$,650 every paycheck which I get paid twice a month and she makes around 11 or 1,200. Um, I'd have to look at like exactly but it's rough. I think it's like 1150. She makes about 1150 and I make about 1,650 every paycheck and we get paid twice a month.

1:48:12 Got it. So you're talking like 3,200 and 2200. Let's call it 5,400 5,500. Correct.

1:48:19 Okay. So, how much is her car worth? Um, I just took it. Um, I looked it up on Kelly Blue Book and they said it's worth about 13 to 15,000. That's like the They have that fair price, poor price.

1:48:36 Is that the private party value or trade in? Um, that would be the private party value.

1:48:42 Okay. And is that with the repair needed or is that saying, "Hey, if we got the repair done, it's worth 13 grand. Oh, no. That's just that's just that didn't include the repair. That's just it by itself. Like if it was okay right now because it's a it's a 2021.

1:48:58 Dang. Well, hold on. Hey, before you do anything, go to a local mechanic that you trust that's not the dealer.

1:49:04 I don't trust them. Okay. Yeah, they were kind of bull craping us. You go to a local mechanic. If it's a if it's a transmission on a Toyota and it's a 21, my guess is it's covered somewhere in the powertrain warranty. Right. So, I'm not sure because um her grandparents bought her the car. Her there was a whole situation.

1:49:23 That doesn't matter. That doesn't matter. Okay. Like go to a local mechanic and get the skinny on it. Okay.

1:49:29 And maybe a third mechanic to get another opinion because they may look at it and say, "Yeah, this happens all the time with this car." Or, "Yeah, this is under warranty." Or, "Dude, you don't have a problem at all. All these cars do this."

1:49:42 Have you checked to see if they warranty the transmission because it's newer? Um, they didn't say, they didn't I asked them like I asked them a ton of questions when I was there at the dealership and they didn't give me like a straight up answer. I was just asking I was like, "Is there a warranty on this?" And they didn't. They were just like beating around the bush with me talking about how I need to get a new transmission.

1:50:01 I would do your own homework on that and figure it out. Cuz here's the truth. If it's going to take 13 grand to repair and the car is only worth 13 grand, I wouldn't do this.

1:50:10 I would sell it for what it's worth, save up some money, and then get a different car. Now, what's your truck worth? My truck I took it in yesterday while her car was getting worked on and they said the appraisal the appraisal value for selling it outright is 19,000 and to trade it in is 22 to 25,000.

1:50:30 How is it possible to trade in is higher than what it's worth. That's because they're giving you a cash number. Don't do this kind of business with dealerships.

1:50:37 I don't ask the dealership what your car is worth. They'll lie through their teeth.

1:50:41 Go private sale. Yeah. Go to the Kelly Blue Book back to where you were. What is the private party value for that truck? Cuz that'll tell you the exact difference. You're underwater. You owe 36. If the truck is worth, let's say, 25. Well, now we know. We have a number. We're 11 grand underwater. That's what they tell you the trade in was.

1:50:59 They told me the tradein was 22 to 25 and then selling it was 19. Okay, that means you can probably get 27 to 30 private value. So, you might be six grand underwater. So, how quickly could you guys save up the difference in order to sell it

1:51:15 and have a little bit more to get you a different car, right? And could you share a car for a few months or go down to Fairwinds Credit Union, get a $10,000 loan, pay this thing the difference off, sell this thing private party, use a couple of grand to get yourself a a car that's going to get you from A to B, and pay that loan off and you've just taken a $36,000 problem down to 10,

1:51:39 right? Yeah. Do you guys have any other debts? Um, I do. I have It's a It's a few small debts. It's like um from like a It's from Synchry Bank. It's like a $1,000 debt and a $2,000 debt. And then I have like a one of my credit my credit card got shut down and it was really my work's fault. So, I filed a complaint with the Capital One, which is who I have the the car loan and the credit card through. So, what's your total debt balance between the two of you?

1:52:11 Um, she has zero debt. I have, I would say, probably close to $40,000, including the car and those those few things with the the Synchrony Bank and my credit card.

1:52:22 Okay. So, the good news is if we clear this truck, you guys can be debtree within 30 to 60 days,

1:52:29 right? So, that's the new goal. Now, the the thing is we got to save up the money to cover the difference or like John said, go to your local credit union and get the difference in a loan so that we can reduce 36 grand down to 10.

1:52:42 So, that's the game. So, you have two pieces of homework. We got to work on your wife's car, figure out what it's really going to cost from a few mechanics, and then we need to either save up for the repair cost if it's going to be worth it or we need to just sell it for what we can get for it and get a different car.

1:52:57 Yes, sir. So you you got plenty of work to do, man. And it's very doable. I feel very hopeful about your situation, but it sucks. And I'm glad you're learning this lesson at 22 instead of 42. Um that car loans, Here's the here's the best news. When you pay cash for a car, you can never be underwater. And so, never go into car loan debt again. Never lease a car, sir.

1:53:19 Never go to a dealership and let them convince you into a payment. You go in there with a check. And John has done this where he goes in, he's got a check for a certain amount and he goes, "This is how much I have. If you guys want to do business, I'm here. If not, I'll peace out."

1:53:32 And I've had them say, "Hey, appreciate you." We shake hands and I walk out and I had somebody take $9,000 off of a car price because I had a check and I said, "Hey, this is what me and my wife agreed on before I left the house and I'm not going to call her and switch the deal up on me. This is a big check. I would like that car. Let me go talk to my manager, come back. Let me go talk to my manager, come back.

1:53:56 Play the games. And they said, just take this car and get out of here. And I was like, cool.

1:54:00 Right. Right. But it here's the deal. I wasn't tied to the car. It wasn't like this is my dream. Like it's just it's a car, man. It's awesome. It's nice. I love it. But it's not my identity. It's not my end all beall. And if that one didn't work out, I was going to find another one. That's cool.

1:54:15 Yeah. That's what I think my wife's situation her car is. It's It's got 80,000 miles on it. and Toyota, they can go for a pretty good long time and but her grandparents bought it for her. So, I guess she's a little emotionally tied to it and but she's also understanding that the more practical aspect is I'm willing to pay the price. You know, maybe sometime down the road then, you know, if they wanted to help us on another car or whatever, but she's just I guess emotionally attached to it because I don't I have no idea to be honest with you.

1:54:42 Well, it it doesn't sound like it's smart to sell it until you know your situation.

1:54:47 Right. Right. And if you can fix it for three grand, great. Let's fix it. Right. They Yeah, because they told me like I look it up and it said that there was a It could be a wheel bearing or it could be the transmission. And then they go in there and they give me the highest bid possible, which I I I kind of expected them to give me the most expensive.

1:55:05 Well, here's the thing. Dealerships make money two ways, financing and the service. They don't make money when you walk in with a check and buy a car,

1:55:16 right? And so they have a vested interest in getting you to do all of their service. That's why you get a million emails every day like you didn't do this or you need to do this or time to come in. Time for your checkup.

1:55:27 And so take it to a local mechanic. And by the way, when you go to the local mechanic, look him in the eye or her in the eye and say, I'm coming here because you're somebody has a reputation that is trustworthy. I got this information from a dealer and I want you to to to check their work because I trust you. and let that be their guide.

1:55:47 Really quick question. What do you recommend? How would I private sell? What's the best way to private sell?

1:55:52 You list it on Facebook Marketplace. You pay a little bit, put it on Autotrader. Take really nice photos. I actually did a video on this on my YouTube channel. Just search how to sell car for top dollar camel. It'll pop right up. We'll also put it in the show notes. And remember, don't let cars be more than half your annual income total. All things with wheels and motors. You do that, you're going to build some serious wealth.

1:56:28 When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan and that begins with our getstarted assessment. Go to ramiesolutions.com/start. Answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with ramiesolutions.com/start.

1:57:02 Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 12:14. Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy. Without holiness, no one will see the Lord. Jordan Peterson said, "Face the demands of life voluntarily. Respond to a challenge instead of bracing for cat catastrophe." Oh, that's good. I think most of us are bracing for catastrophe these days.

1:57:34 We're just tightened up just waiting for life to happen to us instead of responding to the challenge and and being a little more proactive.

1:57:42 That's good. Maria is in San Jose. What's going on, Maria? Hi there, John and George. It's a pleasure speaking with you today.

1:57:50 You too. Um I have a question. Should I continue um paying off my house with the same intensity um if I want to retire in the next 5 to 10 years as I was paying off the debt? I'm completely debt free aside from the house now.

1:58:08 Cool. Are you single, married? I am married, but I am the sole bread winner. Okay. So, at the rate that you're currently paying down the mortgage, how quickly will it be paid off? Um, well, the way that I've calculated it would be three and a half years.

1:58:24 Wow. And this is like with serious intensity. Is this like overtime? No vacations. We're not living or what?

1:58:32 No, I do take vacations maybe twice a year. Okay. Um, and I work a lot of over time.

1:58:40 Okay. Well, that just helps me cuz I go Gazelle intensity is rice and beans. We're not eating out. No vacations. We say move from intensity to intentionality once you hit baby step six. So, as long as you know you're you have a happy life, you're going on vacation, you're enjoying your money, you're giving money, you're investing 15%. It's up to you how fast you go. Now, John and I are we're crazy people. We're like you. We're like, let's get rid of this debt as fast as possible.

1:59:07 Yeah. So, I went pretty scorched earth and I'll tell you, three and a half years is right at the outer limit for how long your body can take. Okay.

1:59:16 What does What does your husband think? Well, apparently he is not here with me. That's why I'm kind of wanting to get this done over with so I can retire and go um out of state with him. Well, out of the country cuz he's not here.

1:59:32 Oh, literally not here. Like you you guys don't live near each other right now.

1:59:37 Correct. So, my vacations are to go see him. Wow. Goodness. Okay. So, let me throw a complete wrench in this deal. Why not sell your house and just move there to be with him?

1:59:48 Um because my whole family is here. Ah, okay. Fair, fair. Wow. Okay. So, how old are you now?

1:59:56 I'm 45. And when do you want to retire? Um, at the latest I would say 55. And you're you're able to do that as far as actual nest egg, retirement accounts, all of that? Um well currently I do have about 50k in my high yield savings. No 40k in my high yield savings. I have total uh retirement accounts and brokerage like HSA and Roth. Um I have 256 I believe and I also have a pension plan with my current employer.

2:00:32 Okay. And so you're saying between all of that and me investing for the next decade, I should be able to make this whole plan work.

2:00:40 That's what I was and not having a house payment. Yeah. And then you can invest a portion of whatever that house payment was. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that plan. The only encouragement I would give you is to retire to something instead of from something. Right now, it feels like you're you're running. And it's a great goal because you want to be closer to your husband. But I wouldn't also like work a job that I hate and toil over it for the next decade or whatever.

2:01:04 Do you enjoy what you do? I do. Okay. I do. So that's another thing. It's like when I retire, I don't know if I'll be able to not do anything.

2:01:14 No, don't do. You're too valuable to the world. We want We need you. We need you out there.

2:01:19 What likely will happen, you'll take a month vacation and then be bored and be like, I need to do something with some meaning and purpose. I'm going to go start an Encore career or your own business or consult or something

2:01:29 or go down to halftime with your current employer, retire and have them bring you on as a 1099. Like there's a million different things and who knows what the world will look like in 5 years or 10 years or whatever. But I I personally, George, tell me if I'm wrong. I love Maria not having a house note in three years.

2:01:45 Okay. I'm a big fan of that. I do too. I love it. We we paid ours in like 26 months and now it was a very modest town home. We had a huge down payment. So, it wasn't like I mean, we we went hard, but we were young, no kids, and we went, "Huh, what's stopping us? We were aligned on the goal." And uh I I look back with no regrets. So, I don't think you will either. We were just kind of gut-ing to make sure that you weren't going to burn out and fizzle out because your life was unsustainable.

2:02:12 Okay. Do you think with my numbers and what I have so far in retirement that that would be sustainable for me to be able to do that or

2:02:20 I wouldn't be able to tell you on a on a radio call. I would sit down with a Smart Vtor pro and you can lay out all the numbers and what your current investment rate is and they have the most high-tech software where they can plug it all in and show you exactly what will be true and what kind of life you can live and when. And so jump on ramseyolutions.com, click on Smartves Vestro Pro and and lay it out with a pro. Um, and you can use our investment calculator and ballpark some of this, but there's so many variables that you forget about like healthcare. Well, that's going to cost a pretty penny when it's not through your employer, especially before you can access Medicare at 65. So, that's a whole another wrench in the plan. That's going to be 36 grand a year we got to cover for healthare as one example.

2:03:00 And then what kind of lifestyle you want to have in retirement? Are you going to live real simple or do you want to go crazy? And you know, they found what happens in retirement is it's kind of a smile shape. And so, at first your spending actually goes up. It's a little dimple there. And then what happens is over time your spending actually goes down. as you kind of settle in, you travel less, less vacations, less excitement. And then as you near the end of your life, the expenses ramp back up as you enter, you know, healthare, long-term care costs, and all of that.

2:03:30 And so, it's not a straight line where you go, well, can I live off five grand a year for the rest of my life?

2:03:35 I wish it were that simple, but life is more complicated. And that's where a pro can really help you unpack all of those variables. Thank you so much for the call. That's exciting to be debtree in California before you're 50. That's a miracle. JR is in Atlanta. JR, how can we help you? It's a sad ending. JR, are you here?

2:04:00 Yes, I'm here. There we go. Okay, get right to your question. We're up against the clock.

2:04:04 Yeah. So, uh, I'm 24. I'm going through college and I'm trying to earn a degree that'll make me the most amount of money in the quickest time frame. I don't enjoy the field I'm currently in, but my goal is to chase money and then figure out what I want to do after. Is this the right mentality?

2:04:21 Yikes. No, it's backwards. Okay. So, now here here's the thing. I I don't we don't need to conflate the two. I think you can hustle and work really hard at something you love and that is the recipe cuz you'll never get bored of that. So I would not do something I hate and get a degree just cuz I think it will pay well. You meet a lot of those people. They're not happy.

2:04:46 Miserable billionaires. And they never go, "Well, at least now I can do whatever I want." I've never met someone who said that.

2:04:54 Okay, so here's my counter to that, right? Like so my counter to that is is that you let's say let's say I have a passion in you know art creation I like to paint or whatever right you know you know to be honest you know that's not starting the most you know paying field so so my mentality and honestly my advice that I give most other people is that you know screw you know what you enjoy per se if it's not making money and just you know go to school for something that's paying like for example uh I'm about to get my degree in December for software uh uh engineering.

2:05:29 Right now I'm a software engineer team lead and you know I you know I don't per se enjoy the job but but you know in terms of uh financial like I'm I'm I'm happy so I'm going to use the money later on you know to then fund you know whatever I enjoy. I I my push back would just be this is simply this. Um a you're right. There's a reality and I tell everybody in their 20s just be quiet and grind it. Go grind it, right? But grind it towards a the person you want to become.

2:06:02 And so there is a big difference between I just want to be a painter and I don't make any money and I'm a person who's creative. I help create beauty in the world. I help people create homes. I'm an architect. I don't love like architect isn't my first love,

2:06:16 but it allows me to be creative and when I get home I get my eel out and I paint. You get what I'm saying? There's a big difference. It like work really hard grinding it out. Of course, that's part of it. I'm glad you have that ethos. But become the person you want to become cuz man, I know a lot of miserable, lonely, wealthy people and I wouldn't trade places with them for anything. I'd reverse it if I were you, man. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "There Is Hope When Debt and Life Feel Overwhelming | January 14, 2026"?

George Camel (Host), Dr. John Deloney (Guest), Jeff (Guest), Andy (Guest), Alicia (Guest), Matthew (Guest), Maria (Guest), JR (Guest).

What is "There Is Hope When Debt and Life Feel Overwhelming | January 14, 2026" about?

The discussion centers on a caller, Jeff, who reveals that his wife has accrued approximately $300,000 in predatory loans over the past decade without his knowledge, primarily using the funds for personal purchases. The conversation explores the implications of hidden debt within relationships, emphasizing the importance of communication and financial transparency to address such overwhelming…

What is mentioned in this The Ramsey Show episode?

29 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Ramsay Show, George Camel, Debt, Budgeting, Alicia, Savings. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "There Is Hope When Debt and Life Feel Overwhelming | January 14, 2026"?

The episode runs 2 h 7 min; the transcript is about 23,857 words in 425 timestamped sections.

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