Transcript

The Biggest Ever Gold Heist | Fall of the Incas EP 4

From The Rest Is History · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 5 min · 12,033 words · 150 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "The Biggest Ever Gold Heist | Fall of the Incas EP 4", an episode of The Rest Is History published February 26, 2026 (1 h 5 min, about 12,033 words). It mentions 53 people, works and ideas, including Cuzco, Inca, Francisco Pizarro, Manco Inca Yupanqui, Gold.

What this episode is about

A dramatic account of the cash-for-death gold heist in Kusco, detailing how Pizarro’s conquest party seizes Inca wealth and power after executing Atahualpa, while forging a new southern-backed puppet ruler and moving toward the fabled gold of Kusco. It also promises a pivotal battleground confrontation and the rise of a notorious Inca warlord.

Key takeaways

  • Pizarro leverages a fractured empire: coronation of a puppet, while gold remains the real currency of power.
  • Reluctant Christianization: Spaniards ignore local cults, preoccupied with loot and leverage over allegiance.
  • Percussion-weapon detail teases a broader human toll—ritualized violence disguised as spectacle.
  • Tupac Kualpa’s feathered tribute signals where true power sits: loyalty to Charles V, not the throne.
  • Seville’s gold rush backfires as mythmaking: conquest converts into celebrity wealth and recruitment fuel.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Conquest, Atahualpa, Gold, Kusco
  2. – 20:00: civil war, Chaluchima, Shiaosha, Vilka Conga
  3. – 30:00: Temples, Mummies, Mexico, Charles the Fifth
  4. – 40:00: Gold and Silver, Temples, Mummies, Royal Hunt
  5. – 50:00: Ruminawi, Andrew Alvarado, Ecuador, Charles V
  6. – 1:00:00: Conquest, Gold and Silver, Ruminawi, Spanish Conquest
  7. – 1:04:48: civil war, Diego de Almagro, Spanish Empire, Mexico

Notable quotes from "The Biggest Ever Gold Heist | Fall of the Incas EP 4"

  • So it's a it's a story today of gold and greed on an epic scale. But there is more. We'll be telling the story of the greatest pitched battle in the history of the conquest of Peru. So tens of.
    about Gold · at
  • So let's begin with Pizar and the concistadors in Kakamaka. It's the summer of 1534. They've just killed Atalpa. What now? So killing Atamalpa has made their life much simpler in a.
    about Francisco Pizarro · at
  • These valleys, crossing rivers, climbing these peaks. As John Heming says in his brilliant book, it's one of the most staggering invasions in history without supplies…
    about Conquest · at
  • That's absolutely crucial. So this isn't Spanish versus Incas. It's Spanish and half of the Inca Empire against the other half. That's one thing. I think you're dead right. And then the other thing is the horses. All the accounts.
    about Inca · at
  • North to Kayamaka, but not all of it. there is a lot more gold in the temples of Kusco and there is four times as much silver as the Spanish have already shared out. So for the…
    about Gold and Silver · at
  • But there is another general up in the north who is a very ruthless man. And this is a guy called Ruminawi.
    about Ruminawi · at
  • Kito. And they execute room Yahawahi. I think they burn him as well. And the conquest of the north is complete. It's rapid, isn't it?
    about Spanish Conquest · at
  • And feuding, and the conquest of Peru, I'm sorry to say, is no different. So, in March 1934, Pizarro had refounded Kusco as a Spanish city under Spanish law. And at the time…
    about Cuzco · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Francisco Pizarro — Person · Core historical figure · 2 mentions · first at
    Leads the Spanish push from Cajamarca to Cuzco, installs puppet rulers, and oversees the melting and redistribution of Inca gold and silver.
  • Manco Inca Yupanqui — Person · Core historical figure (puppet emperor turning antagonist) · 26 mentions
    Installed as Inca ruler by Pizarro; initially collaborates but becomes disillusioned as Spaniards seize land and abuse locals, setting up the coming siege of Cuzco.
  • Atahualpa — Person · Core historical figure · 2 mentions · first at
    His execution removes a focal point of resistance, forces Spaniards to choose sides in the Inca civil war, and triggers northern power struggles (Kiskis, Ruminawi).
    So let's begin with Pizar and the concistadors in Kakamaka. It's the summer of 1534. They've just killed Atalpa. What now? So killing Atamalpa has made their life much simpler…
  • Ruminawi — Person · Core historical figure (northern warlord) · 5 mentions · first at
    Northern commander who seizes power in Quito, murders rivals, uses terror (human drum), burns Quito, and is eventually captured and executed by Spaniards.
  • Diego de Almagro — Person · Core historical figure · 1 mention · first at
    Pizarro's partner and rival; anger over being cut out of ransom foreshadows the feud that escalates after Cuzco and shapes the conquest's internal conflict.
    Darkest hour and the bloody climax of his feud with his former business partner Diego de Almagro. So, still so much to come. and Rest is History Club members can hear that…
  • Andrew Alvarado — Person · Referenced returning character / rival conquistador · 5 mentions · first at
    Arrives in Ecuador seeking Peru's gold, commits extreme brutality, then sells his expedition to Almagro—showing conquistador rivalries and chaos beyond Pizarro's control.
    He's heard all these rumors of the gold of Peru and he wants in. So he finally turns up. February 1534, Pedro de Alvarado lands on the coast of Ecuador with a load of Spanish…
  • Chaluchima — Person · Referenced Inca commander / captive · 2 mentions · first at
    Captured and dragged along by Spaniards; accused of sending orders to Kiskis; burned to death after confrontation with Manco Inca Yupanqui.
    If heaven's full of people like you, I'm not going there. Exactly. So, they set him on fire and burn him to death.
  • Kiskis — Person · Core historical figure (northern general) · 2 mentions · first at
    Leads Atahualpa's northern forces, retreats toward Ecuador, loses morale, and is killed by his own officers—illustrating collapse of northern resistance.
    Northern troops. So, that's Atalpa's former armies. The troops from Kito in the north nearby. And these are led by the northern commander Kiskis, who is the guy who had taken Kusco for Atawalpa.
  • Tupac Huallpa — Person · Referenced puppet ruler · 8 mentions
    Installed by Pizarro after Atahualpa's death to legitimize Spanish control; his sudden illness and death creates a succession vacuum exploited by Spaniards.
  • Charles V — Person · Referenced sovereign · 4 mentions · first at
    Spanish monarch and ultimate recipient of tribute and bullion; his court in Toledo and wars in Europe contextualize why treasures are melted down for cash.
    Kwalpa gives Pizaro ceremonially this white feathered headdress and says, This is a tribute to my overlord Charles V. And that is a sign of where power really lies in this…
  • Pedro Sancho — Person · Primary source / chronicler · 3 mentions · first at
    Pizarro's secretary; quoted describing the Andes ascent and reading the Spanish 'requirement' at Manco Inca Yupanqui's coronation ceremony.
    Real rope bridge, climbing impossible cliff faces, all of this kind of thing. So there's a account by Pedro Sancho, Pizarro's secretary, on one of many of these mountainous…
  • John Hemming — Person · Referenced expert / historian · 3 mentions · first at
    Cited as an authoritative modern historian whose book provides framing judgments about the invasion's scale and episodes like Alvarado's cruelty.
    Right. So, Alvarado kicks off in absolutely textbook Pedro fashion. He indulges in what John Heming calls some unnecessary cruelty to the coastal tribes. Oh, don't do that…
  • Diego de Estete — Person · Primary source / conquistador chronicler · 1 mention · first at
    Quoted describing Manco Inca Yupanqui's coronation festivities, including the display of royal mummies and vivid details of the celebration.
    So, Miguel de Estete, one of the concistadors, has a lovely description of bringing out the mummies. They've all got diadems on their heads. They're put on thrones. there were women who.
  • Francisco de Jerez — Person · Referenced chronicler · 2 mentions
    Paired with Cristóbal de Mena as an author of popular conquest accounts that spread the 'Peru gold' narrative across Europe.
  • Cristóbal de Mena — Person · Referenced chronicler · 1 mention · first at
    Named as one of the returnees to Spain who wrote an account of Peru that became a bestseller, fueling European fascination and migration.
    Their time in Peru, which became by the standards of the 16th century huge bestsellers and they were translated into Italian and into German. And people in Venice, map makers…
  • Huayna Capac — Person · Referenced predecessor emperor · 1 mention · first at
    Identifies Manco Inca Yupanqui's lineage and legitimacy as son of Huayna Capac, anchoring succession politics after Tupac Huallpa's death.
    Identifies himself and he says I am Mango. I am the younger brother of the late. I'm a son of the late emperor Hua Kapak. I am the new candidate of the southern faction, the…
  • Charles the Fifth — Person · Duplicate reference (same as Charles V) · 2 mentions · first at
    Alternate naming used in the transcript for Charles V; same sovereign receiving reports and treasure.
    Things up cuz they want to attract more people and they want to impress the king. So, they write to Charles the 5th, This city is the greatest ever seen in the indies. We can…

Concepts & topics

  • Inca — Concept · Core topic · 2 mentions · first at
    Represents the empire, its civil war factions, religious institutions, and political structures that the Spaniards exploit and dismantle.
  • Gold — Concept · Core topic · 2 mentions · first at
    Primary driver of Spanish actions: motivates the march to Cuzco, temple looting, melting into bars, and recruitment of more conquistadors.
  • Spanish Conquest — Concept · Core topic · 1 mention · first at
    The episode narrates the Spanish conquest mechanics: puppet emperors, temple looting, alliances, and rapid northern campaigns culminating in Quito's fall.
  • Conquest — Concept · Core topic · 7 mentions · first at
    Frames the narrative: Spanish invasion logistics, alliances, morale effects, and the rapid collapse of Inca political-military structures.
  • civil war — Concept · Core topic · 7 mentions · first at
    The Atahualpa–Huáscar conflict fractures the empire; Spaniards exploit factionalism, turning the conquest into a coalition war rather than Spaniards vs Incas alone.
    That's absolutely crucial. So this isn't Spanish versus Incas. It's Spanish and half of the Inca Empire against the other half. That's one thing. I think you're dead right. And then the other thing is the horses. All the accounts.
  • Gold and Silver — Concept · Core topic · 5 mentions · first at
    Represents the scale of extraction: Cuzco holds vast reserves, melted into bars for shipment; silver is said to be four times prior shares.
  • Conquistadors — Concept · Core topic · 2 mentions · first at
    Spanish expeditionary soldiers are portrayed as driven by gold, prone to brutality, and internally rivalrous—key to both conquest success and later instability.
    Have already been taken to use asparus ransom, but the place is still absolutely stuffed with gold. So, one of the concistadors, Diego Druo, wrote, As we entered, Vilakumu, who was their high priest, cried, how dare you enter here?
  • Temples — Concept · Core topic · 7 mentions · first at
    Temples in Cuzco (especially the Temple of the Sun) are depicted as treasure repositories and sacred centers, targeted for looting and melting down.
    Stuff in gray warehouses and have it hanging around in its capital. And then of course the temples, they're the things they've really come for. So Kusco's temples were full of…
  • Spanish Empire — Concept · Core context · 4 mentions · first at
    Provides the political framework: Charles V, Council of the Indies, legal 'requirement', encomienda land grants, and imperial extraction of bullion.
    And his gold was a huge sensation when he unloaded it. When he unloaded it in Seville, the council of the Indies immediately wrote to Charles V and said, You've got to welcome…
  • Mummies — Concept · Core topic (Inca ritual life) · 4 mentions · first at
    Highlights Inca political-religious continuity: dead emperors remain present in palaces and ceremonies; Spaniards occupy these spaces amid ongoing ritual display.
    Mansion during his lifetime. And this was going to be his own morale, his own resting place. And when he was dead, his mummified body would be put in this palace with all his…
  • Drum — Concept · Motif / shocking anecdote · 3 mentions · first at
    Represents Ruminawi's terror tactic: transforming a rival into a 'kettle drum' to intimidate allies and enemies, repeatedly referenced as a narrative hook.
    We'll be meeting a terrifying Inca warlord who turns his victims into percussion instruments.
  • Christianity — Concept · Core context / ideological frame · 3 mentions · first at
    Appears in funeral rites, forced conversion threats, and the legal-religious 'requirement' read to Manco Inca Yupanqui; contrasted with pragmatic early restraint.
    Nearest village square. They say to him, we're going to kill you, convert to Christianity, and we'll grow you instead of burning you. He says, I've been burned already. You may…
  • Gold Rush — Concept · Core theme · 2 mentions · first at
    Describes the self-reinforcing influx of Europeans once Peruvian gold becomes known, sealing Inca fate through numbers and continued expeditions.
    Yeah. The gold rush is on. Exactly.
  • Spanish Technology — Concept · Explanatory factor · 2 mentions · first at
    Explains Spanish battlefield advantage (horses, weapons) and why large indigenous forces fail to finish Spaniards off despite numbers.
    Yeah. The counterargument to that is nowhere else on the continent do people hold out and the weight of Spanish technology of numbers and also disease.
  • Smallpox — Concept · Contributing factor · 2 mentions · first at
    Cited as a decisive background force that weakens Andean populations even before Spaniards arrive, undermining any chance of sustained resistance.
    The first episode, smallox has made its entrance and has before the Spaniards even arrived and disease will continue to decimate the populations of South America. Okay. So, it's bad news for the Incas basically.
  • Royal Hunt — Concept · Illustrative episode · 2 mentions · first at
    Manco Inca Yupanqui's ceremonial hunt (chacu) is used to show elite ritual life and a moment of 'cordiality' between Spaniards and Incas.
    No, no, I think that's fair. John Heming says on the plus side, it was a moment of great cordiality between Spaniards and Peruvians.
  • Cultural Difference — Concept · Interpretive theme · 1 mention · first at
    Used to explain Spanish attitudes toward Inca religion and practices (temples, idols, sacrifice), and why Spaniards resist toleration or assimilation.
    Idols and stuff. Well, also there was human sacrifice going on and I think that possibly intensifies the sense of yes of cultural difference.
  • Human Sacrifice — Concept · Comparative reference · 1 mention · first at
    Raised mainly to contrast Peru with Mexico/Aztecs and to explain Spanish attitudes toward indigenous religion and 'cultural difference'.
    Spaniards are always kind of going into temples and being rude about the local idols and stuff. Well, also there was human sacrifice going on and I think that possibly intensifies the sense of yes of cultural difference.

Places & events

  • Cuzco — Place · Core setting (standard spelling also used) · 22 mentions
    Central prize of the campaign: described in detail (palaces, temples, square), looted and refounded under Spanish law; future siege is foreshadowed.
  • Peru — Place · Core setting · 1 mention · first at
    Main theater of the episode: Spanish march across the Andes, seizure of Cuzco, and the broader conquest dynamics and settler-colonial distribution of land.
    Greed on an epic scale. But there is more. We'll be telling the story of the greatest pitched battle in the history of the conquest of Peru. So tens of thousands of warriors. Cuz to be honest, we haven't had any yet, have we?
  • Kusco — Place · Core setting (as pronounced in episode) · 3 mentions · first at
    Presented as the Inca holy city and treasure center; the march target and site of temple looting, coronation rituals, and Spanish consolidation.
    The sources say on a horse, which must have been an amazing site for the people of Kusco, they ride into the capital city as conquerors.
  • Kito — Place · Core setting (as pronounced in episode) · 1 mention · first at
    Northern capital and Atahualpa heartland; contested by Ruminawi, Spanish expeditions, and indigenous allies; burned and then occupied by Spaniards.
    The scouts are reporting there are northern troops. So, that's Atalpa's former armies. The troops from Kito in the north nearby. And these are led by the northern commander Kiskis, who is the guy who had taken Kusco for Atawalpa.
  • Ecuador — Place · Core setting (northern theater) · 6 mentions · first at
    Northern heartland of Atahualpa's faction; site of Quito campaigns involving Ruminawi, Kiskis, Alvarado, Almagro, and Spanish-allied indigenous forces.
    Months earlier was on cloud9 cuz he thought he'd won the Civil War, he starts this long retreat towards the north back to Ecuador, his men are obviously knackered and their…
  • Andes — Place · Core setting (terrain) · 1 mention · first at
    The extreme geography shapes the march to Cuzco and the Ecuador campaigns; altitude, passes, and lack of supplies are emphasized as decisive conditions.
    Becomes more desolate. It's now very cold, and some of the Spanish, not surprisingly, have got terrible altitude sickness. they're tens of thousands of feet high up. The…
  • Kakimaka — Place · Core setting (Cajamarca as rendered in transcript) · 2 mentions · first at
    Staging point after Atahualpa's death where Spaniards hold Tupac Huallpa and begin the march south; also where some Cuzco gold is moved.
    So let's begin with Pizar and the concistadors in Kakamaka. It's the summer of 1534. They've just killed Atalpa. What now? So killing Atamalpa has made their life much simpler in a.
  • Mexico — Place · Comparative reference · 7 mentions · first at
    Used as a comparison point for Spanish behavior (religion, temples) and strategic lessons (Cortés in Tenochtitlan) that Pizarro tries to avoid repeating.
    No. And actually the Spaniards, it's really interesting actually this story a little bit different from the conquest of Mexico. They don't really make that much effort to…
  • Seville — Place · Imperial metropole reference · 3 mentions · first at
    Port and publicity hub where Hernando Pizarro unloads gold, sparking sensation, recruitment, and mapmaking interest (including in Venice).
    Their winnings. His brother Ernando has already gone. Of course he reached Seville in January 1534 and his gold was a huge sensation when he unloaded it. When he unloaded it in…
  • Tenochtitlan — Place · Comparative reference · 3 mentions · first at
    Used to compare Cuzco's impressiveness and to recall Cortés' predicament, shaping Pizarro's strategic caution about being trapped in a capital.
    Destroying for what was being destroyed was more perfect than anything they possessed. So it's like the lamentations over the beauties of Tennos Titlan, isn't it? Yeah. After…
  • Shiaosha — Place · Journey waypoint / battle zone · 2 mentions · first at
    Valley where Spaniards encounter evidence of civil war atrocities, skirmish with northern troops, and where Tupac Huallpa falls ill and dies.
    No. So, by early October, the Spaniards are approaching the valley of Shiaoa.
  • Toledo — Place · Imperial court location · 1 mention · first at
    Where Hernando Pizarro is received at court after bringing gold to Spain, illustrating how conquest wealth translates into royal attention.
    Seville, the council of the Indies immediately wrote to Charles V and said, You've got to welcome this guy at court. You've got to see this. And Ando was invited to the court…
  • Andean Highlands — Place · Geographic concept / setting · 1 mention · first at
    Discussed as terrain that might allow a remnant state to survive and as the harsh environment shaping Spanish and indigenous operations.
    Yes, I think the terrain actually makes it perfectly possible you could imagine, I would say, some sort of Andian highland state surviving, just hard to get to. So the lowlands being conquered but the coastline always the Spanish are.
  • Vilka Conga — Place · Skirmish site · 2 mentions · first at
    Another named location of clashes with northern forces; immediately precedes Manco Inca Yupanqui's appearance in the narrative.
    With the Katon army who are still hanging around at a place called Vilka Swaman and Vilka Conga. But both times although the Spanish are outnumbered, they managed to drive…
  • Venice — Place · European reception context · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as a place where mapmakers produced imaginary maps of Peru, showing the rapid spread of conquest hype in Europe.
    Standards of the 16th century huge bestsellers and they were translated into Italian and into German. And people in Venice, map makers in Venice started producing sort of…
  • Vilka Swaman — Place · Skirmish site · 1 mention · first at
    Named as a place where Spanish forces fight and repel northern Inca attacks en route to Cuzco.
    And stuff. There are two more skirmishes with the Katon army who are still hanging around at a place called Vilka Swaman and Vilka Conga. But both times although the Spanish…
  • Aata — Place · In-city landmark · 1 mention
    Central square of Cuzco described as lined with Inca palaces, anchoring the episode's depiction of the capital's urban layout.
  • Suffukk — Place · Advertisement segment reference · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned in an ad read as a purported site where fire was invented; not part of the Peru conquest narrative.
    Originate? And a tremendous discovery was announced just last year that the place where it seems fire was invented was Suffukk. Well, one of the things that makes history so…

Full transcript with timestamps

This is the story of one of the greatest gold heists. Surely actually the greatest gold heist in history. The surely I mean I can't think of anything comparable. And at the heart of the story are the temples and treasure houses of the Inca's holy city of Kusco. So it's a it's a story today of gold and greed on an epic scale. But there is more. We'll be telling the story of the greatest pitched battle in the history of the conquest of Peru. So tens of thousands of warriors. Cuz to be honest, we haven't had any yet, have we?

No. And I think people are gagging for a battle and they're going to get one. We'll be meeting a terrifying Inca warlord who turns his victims into percussion instruments.

We love an Inca warlord who turns his victims into percussion instruments on the rest is history. And most exciting, and this is a real gift for longstanding listeners, we shall be welcoming back to the show one of our favorite characters, top Gilelay and Red Trousers model Pedro de Alvarado. Bloody good. Total ledge. So that's something to look forward to. So let's begin with Pizar and the concistadors in Kakamaka. It's the summer of 1534. They've just killed Atalpa. What now? So killing Atamalpa has made their life much simpler in a couple of respects. First of all, they are now free to push on for the gold of Kusco, which is about 750 mi, 800 mi to the south. And this is especially important for Pizarro's partner, Diego Dia Magro, who as we heard last time is absolutely seething because he's been cut out of the ransom, hopping mad. He's a short man, a very colorfully dressed man, a boastful man, and as we'll see, a

violent man. Secondly, the Spaniards have definitively now taken a side in the civil war between Atawalpa and Hascar. Now, initially they were pro-atawpa, but by killing him, Pizarro has put himself very firmly on the side of the late who represented Kusco and the south of the empire. And he cementss this further with his choice of the new puppet emperor. So they have been holding in Kakimaka all this time's younger brother who is called Tupac Halpa. He's probably in his 20ies. We know virtually nothing about him. This bloke's just been hanging around somewhere. And as soon as Atawpa they've held their Christian funeral service for Atawalpa and buried him. Pizarro summons all the local chiefs and he unveils this bloke Tupacalpa and they have a kind of coronation ceremony for him. There's a lot of interesting tribal dancing and um feathered costumes play a part I'm happy to say. So they haven't converted to

Christianity. No. And actually the the Spaniards, it's really interesting actually this story a little bit different from the conquest of Mexico. They don't really make that much effort to impose Christianity and to stamp out the local um cults and whatnot at this stage. I think probably because they're so heavily outnumbered and they know it would be madness to even try. It's all about the gold. There's a big difference cuz remember in the conquest of the Aztecs, the Spaniards are always kind of going into temples and being rude about the local idols and stuff. Well, also there was human sacrifice going on and I think that that possibly intensifies the sense of yes of cultural difference.

Maybe. Yeah. They're not fans of cultural difference, are they? The Spaniards by and large. And actually to the local chiefs after the coronation service, you can see that they think basically the natural order now has been restored. Charge. His brother is the new emperor. Yes, he's got these weird foreign mercenaries who are working for him, but you can see how they could sell that across the empire. So it's kind of like Roman Italy in the fifth century AD with, you know, an ineffectual Roman emperor surrounded by Gothic guards completely. And that's, do you know, I actually thought about that in the last while we recording the last episode, the parallel with kind of barbarian mercs who are working for you. And the the difference of course is that the the Spanish are going to come in such overwhelming numbers I suppose also that um they feel no aspiration to become an Inca.

Exactly. So that's the other big difference. Yeah. There's no place in the in the Spanish worldview to tolerate the the cults and the gods for instance of the Inca whereas the German mercenaries they all became Christians. Well, the German mercenaries want to become Romans, don't they, to some degree. Whereas the Spanish have no desire to become Peruvians. No. Um, and actually at the end of this coronation ceremony, Tupac Kwalpa gives Pizaro ceremonially this white feathered headdress and says, "This is a tribute to my overlord Charles V." And that is a sign of where power really lies in this dynamic. Now, in a lot of accounts of the fall of the Incas, this is when the story ends.

Atala is dead. The Spanish of the gold, the Spanish of a puppet emperor, the Spanish of one.

So they finish without any mention of the the percussion based. Yeah. Do you remember that from your children's book?

I don't. No, cuz it would have made a brilliant illustration. And we're preempting the show.

It would have been. It would have been. I mean, it would have been tremendous. This is where most of the children's books end. And for some of Pizarro's men, this is the end. So he gives them permission to go back to Spain with their winnings. His brother Ernando has already gone. Of course he reached Seville in January 1534 and his gold was a huge sensation when he unloaded it. When he unloaded it in Seville, the council of the Indies immediately wrote to Charles V and said, "You've got to welcome this guy at court. You've got to see this." And Ando was invited to the court in Toledo. He was a massive celebrity. Everyone was very excited. He then went to Extra Madura to the the Pizarro's kind of ancestral homeland and he went on a recruitment drive to get more people.

You can come and get gold. Why don't we all go? And meanwhile, two of the other guys who returned, Christoal Demenya and Francisco Herth, they wrote accounts of their time in Peru, which became by the standards of the 16th century huge bestsellers and they were translated into Italian and into German. And people in Venice, map makers in Venice started producing sort of imaginary maps of Peru. And it became this great sensation basically if you're young, if you fancy yourself as an adventurer, Peru is where you now go. And I think from that moment onwards, clearly the Incas are doomed because a lot more people are going to arrive by ship in the next few years.

So, it's the very familiar story, isn't it, of the winning of the West that native peoples in the Americas, once there's a sniff of gold,

Yeah. they're doomed. Yeah. The gold rush is on. Exactly. So, just one question. Do you think there is an alternative reality where the Incas do survive? Had they seen off Pizaro, had they become alert to the possibility, had they got horses, had they obtained weapons? Yeah. Do you think that they could have upgraded their infrastructure fast enough and sufficiently enough to see off Spanish conquerors?

No, deep down because I mean nobody in the Americas does it. But maybe the Incas more than anyone else cuz they're so isolated, so hard to get to.

Yes, I think the terrain actually makes it perfectly possible you could imagine, I would say, some sort of Andian highland state surviving, just hard to get to. So the lowlands being conquered but

the coastline always the Spanish are always coming but maybe you know so the incas don't have a couple of things really something that might have been a massive game changer for then is a bow and arrow

because they don't have that many trees in the Andes they have remarkably few kind of pikes and bows and arrows which might have helped to bring down the horses I mean it's amazing as we we'll come to in this episode you know a handful of horses can see off hundreds and hundreds of men who are terrified and they don't know how to bring them down because They don't have many bows and arrows,

but they might have learned if you if they'd had a sufficient breathing space, they might have

Yeah. The counterargument to that is nowhere else on the continent do people hold out and the the weight of Spanish technology of numbers and also disease. I mean, one thing we haven't really talked about much, we we talked about in the first episode, smallox has made its entrance and has before the Spaniards even arrived and disease will continue to decimate the populations of South America. Okay. So, it's bad news for the Incas basically.

Yeah. So, back in Kakamaka, Pizarro and Alagro are preparing to set off south. And this really, I mean, even by their own standards, this is an absolutely insane journey to be doing. And they're going 800 miles almost south across the central Andes. They're basically going up and down the whole time down into these valleys, crossing rivers, climbing these peaks. As John Heming says in his brilliant book, it's one of the most staggering invasions in history without supplies communications or reinforcements. This tiny contingent was going to try to force its way into the heart of an enormous hostile empire to seize its capital city. And they set off on the 11th of August. It's very like Alexander the Great kind of going through what's now, you know, Turkey, Iran, and whatnot. Sort of endless river crossings, rope bridges, climbing rock faces, ambushes by strange people, all of this kind of thing. Anyway, after

about 8 weeks of this, it's actually going pretty well. So, they're about halfway, which I think is really good going. The locals, by and large, areas supporters. Well, these are the wanker people.

Yeah. So, it's it's always good to have the wankers on side. I think you've you've always got them on side, haven't you, Tom? The wankers.

They're very much team Tom Holland. I think I would never snub a wanker. No. So, by early October, the Spaniards are approaching the valley of Shiaoa. So, this is where Anando Pizaro lured away Chaluchima, the rugby player who got burnt.

Yes. Who got burnt? And actually, he's still alive, isn't he? The Spaniards have brought him with them. He's very badly singed if you may recall.

His tendons, I think, had been badly burned, but he and they've now chained him up, but they brought him with them.

Now, at about this point, the halfway the Spaniards start to get very jittery. The scouts are reporting there are northern troops. So, that's Atalpa's former armies. The troops from Kito in the north um nearby. And these are led by the northern commander Kiskis, who is the guy who had taken Kusco for Atawalpa. Anyway, the Spaniards go on. The terrain becomes more desolate. It's now very cold, and some of the Spanish, not surprisingly, have got terrible altitude sickness. You know, they're tens of thousands of feet high up. The villages are deserted. There are more rumors of northern troops. And at last, they come out in the valley of Shiaosha. And there there are two more reminders of the civil war. So, first, very ominously, I mean, I know we said this with the Aztecs, but this would be another brilliant Hollywood film or series. They ride past the bodies of 4,000 people who'd been killed by the Katon army some

months earlier, and the bodies have been left there to rot. And then, as they continue, the locals start to turn out and to greet them as liberators. I quote, "The natives all came out onto the road to look at the Christians and greatly celebrated their arrival for they thought it would mean their escape from the servitude in which they were held by that foreign army. A foreign army which is the Incas."

Yeah. Is an Inca army from Keuador from the north. The Spanish go into Xiaoa and they find that the northerners have left behind 600 men to set fire to the storehouses. So the Spanish charge, they drive off the northerners and they save some of the gold. And then there's a bit of a chase as the Spanish are chasing basically the rear guard of the northern army um through this valley. And this is clearly one of many little you get this little snippet behind which lies a much bigger story that is unknown to us. The pursuit continued for four leagues and many Indians were speared. We took all the serving people and many beautiful women. There was a good hall of both gold and silver. And just in those words, we took all the serving people and many beautiful women. You don't have to be too cynical to imagine that what the fate that befalls the many beautiful women is not a pleasant one at all.

There's probably a lot of this stuff happening offstage. Now, during all this, when the Spanish are probably behaving very badly, a wholly unexpected development during the journey, the young emperor, puppet Emperor Tupac Halpa, has fallen ill. And we have no idea whatsoever what he fell ill with. Isn't there a rumor that um Chalkima had poisoned him?

Yes. I think almost certainly rubbish. I think this is part of the the blackening of his name.

I mean the blackening. He's already black remember? Yeah. But now they're blackening him metaphorically.

Yeah. So Tubacalpa suddenly basically falls ill and then he dies. And this is very bad news for Pizari cuz he's lost his puppet emperor and he summons all the local bigwigs and he says, "Well, who should be the emperor now?" And some people say there's some bloke who's a brother of Hascar who's called Manco who's off in Kusco. And other people say no no he's no good. Get one of Atawalpa's sons. And they can't agree. And there's basically a stalemate and there's no decision for the time being. So I'll leave that thought that hanging.

There's a vacuum there. Meanwhile, the Spanish are preparing for the last section of the march which is the most dramatic bit which is crossing the central Andes towards Kusco. And this is real kind of, you know, rope bridge, climbing impossible cliff faces, all of this kind of thing. So there's a account by Pedro Sancho, Pizarro's secretary, on one of many of these mountainous ascents. Looking up at it from below, it seemed impossible for birds to scale it by flying through the air, let alone men on horseback climbing by land. And yet they do it with all their kind of native porters and, you know, camp followers and stuff. There are two more skirmishes with the Katon army who are still hanging around at a place called Vilka Swaman and Vilka Conga. But both times although the Spanish are outnumbered, they managed to drive their attackers back. And the interesting question is why the Incas are not able to defeat the

Spaniards because they massively outnumber them. Well, cuz when you say Incas, yeah,

I mean it's it's specifically the Incas from the north, right? Yes. The Katons as I guess we should call them. So it's only a fraction of the Incas.

It is, but there's maybe 30,000 of them. They've got the southern Incas and they've got the Wanker.

Yeah. Well, they've got native support. That's absolutely crucial. So this isn't Spanish versus Incas. It's Spanish and half of the Inca Empire against the other half. That's one thing. I think you're dead right. And then the other thing is the horses. All the accounts say that a handful of horsemen would even in sort of quite hilly terrain could see off hundreds even thousands of incor the Spanish get this start to get this reputation for really awe inspiring invincibility you know at this point I think no Spaniard has been killed which is incredible that is incredible isn't it yeah but I suppose if they haven't got pikes and they haven't got bows and arrows how do You stop a horse,

right? You've got a kind of club or something. I mean, you might get a lucky blow in.

What about one of those um those uh pieces of string with stones on either end and you throw them?

Oh, yes. And they go around the hooves and bring them down. That's what I would do.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. In a film, that's what they would have. I mean, they would do be excellent slingshot action. I mean, they do have slings, but they just are never able to bring any of these people down. So we're now up to November 1533 and now a massively important figure enters this story. So a day or so after the last skirmish at Vila Conga, a group of um locals approached the Spanish camp and one of them and I quote looking like a common Indian. I mean obviously all through this story the Spanish call the locals Indians. He identifies himself and he says I am Mango. I am the younger brother of the late. I'm a son of the late emperor Hua Kapak. I am the new candidate of the southern faction, the Kusco faction in the civil war. How old this guy is, we don't quite know. Some Spaniards said he was 15. Some said he was 20 but looked younger. Let's say late teens. He's been on the run for months. When Atalpa

captured Kusco, Mango had basically run away because he knew he'd be a dead man if Atala's men found him. And Pizaro is delighted when this guy Manco turns up and he says to Manco, "I have come for one reason only, to free you from slavery by the men of Kito. Knowing the injuries they were doing to you, I wanted to put a stop to them and I wanted to liberate the people of Kusco from this tyranny." So he says this through interpreters and Mango appears to believe it and says, "Oh, brilliant. Well, we can work together. That's all that I want. Oh, I'm so pleased." And we know that Mango is not an idiot and is a man of steel because he shows his steel right away.

The Spaniards have been dragging this boat Chalkuchima around with them. And now Mango confronts Chalkuchima in front of them and he says, "I know you've been smuggling orders to the Katon army to Kishkis and his men basically either through informants or presumably through your nice bits of string." And there's a massive row. Pizarro loses the plot and he shouts at Chalkuchima, "You dog, how could you pull such a navish trick?" And basically, they drag Chalkima into the nearest village square. They say to him, you know, we're going to kill you, convert to Christianity, and we'll grow you instead of burning you. He says, you know, I've been burned already. You may as well just finish the job. Do you think he's like um Hatui, wasn't it, in uh in the Caribbean who said that he would convert to Christianity because he didn't want to be in heaven where there was Spaniards? Yeah, that kind of vibe.

If heaven's full of people like you, I'm not going there. Exactly. So, they set him on fire and burn him to death. Actually, a small detail. One of the sources says the people people who burned him most keenly and enthusiastically were his own former friends, which I think is a lesson a lesson to us all. Don't have friends. Yeah. He dies very bravely though. He calls on Kishkis to avenge him. He shouts out, you know, you will avenge me one day. And actually Kishkis is still hanging around somewhere with his army. There's one more battle on the last mountain pass before they get to Kusco.

And this time the Katon army almost beats them. They drive the Spanish back, but it's a constant issue. They can never finish them off completely before nightfall. And actually all night the Spanish kind of hunker down slightly rocks drift style. And when dawn comes, Kiskiss's men are nowhere to be seen. They've melted away into the mountains. They think the Spanish can't be beaten and they've slightly lost heart. And Kishkis now begins this long retreat with his army. I mean, the guy who a few months earlier was on cloud9 cuz he thought he'd won the Civil War, he starts this long retreat towards the north back to Ecuador, his men are obviously knackered and their morale is ebbing. And we will see how that plays out in the second half of this episode.

But for now, the morning of Saturday the 15th of November 1533, Pizarro and Mango, who's I think some of the sources say on a horse, which must have been an amazing site for the people of Kusco, they ride into the capital city as conquerors. Now, Kusco, a very popular tourist destination today, is the heart of Inca civilization. The Incas called it the navl of the world. It was the political and spiritual center of the empire, famous across the Andian region for its palaces and its architecture and its temples and so on and so forth. So if you imagine it, Kusco then is now is spread across the foothills at the top of this very fertile, very green Andian valley. Its buildings then were kind of one story made of stone or adobe and they were thatched. There was a grid system. It's very clean. It's very orderly. The Spaniards wrote home and said, "Beautiful paved little roads.

They've always got water channels down the middle. It's very clean. At the center is this great square called Aata which is lined with the palaces of the Incas. So basically each Inca, each emperor would build a palace or a mansion during his lifetime. And this was going to be his own morale, his own resting place. And when he was dead, his mummified body would be put in this palace with all his furniture, all his stuff and all his old servants, which is great. Yeah. I mean, effectively, you're not dead. And if they have a kind of procession, a royal wedding or coronation or something, they're all brought out, aren't they? And they're kind of carried around in litters and they line them up chronologically.

Yeah. So it would be like, you know, having a royal wedding here and you'd have Queen Victoria and George III and they'd all be wheeled out and they just kind of sit there.

That would be great. Yeah, that would be great. Tabby in the chat correctly points out that we should do this with former Resters History producers. So we could have Theo just bring him in here. Our rest producer Theo Young Smith. We could bring out his mummified body at resters history events and parade it around on a litter. I'm sure everyone would enjoy that.

It's lessons from history. Yeah, completely. So the Spanish thought that Kusco was brilliant.

Can I just ask? Surely Kusco must be in a massive state though. I mean, everyone's died of smallox and there's been all this fighting and it's been occupied by people who hate it.

But here's the thing. Clearly not, right? Otherwise, they would report on it. Maybe Kiskis has not, you know, he hasn't raised it to the ground and the northern army that has been occupying hasn't left a terrible mess. I mean, I don't know why that is, but the sources would tell us, wouldn't they? The Spanish, they would want to tell us. Or maybe it's so outside the sense that the Spanish had of what a city should look like that it strikes them again like something from a romance, cuz that was a theme in in Mexico, wasn't it?

Maybe. Yeah. Or maybe they I mean, all the Spanish sources, of course, it's always in their interest to big these things up cuz they want to attract more people and they want to impress the king. So, they write to Charles the 5th, "This city is the greatest ever seen in the indies. We can assure your majesty it's so beautiful and such fine buildings it'd be remarkable even in Spain. I guess one point worth saying is none of these people have been to Mexico. So they've got no standard of comparison. Yeah

cuz it's not as good as Tenoshitan which is bigger I think and more impressive.

Yeah. Or maybe they've been in PU long enough and kind of canering through so many small villages that to arrive at somewhere this vast is kind of overwhelming.

I think that's probably right. You know, they were anxious when they arrived, of course, after all the fighting and after Kayamaka and stuff, but they are delighted that the people greet them as liberators. They move into the palaces of the Incas. What happens to their bodies to the mummies? Presumably still there. I don't know.

Well, that's a bit creepy. And Pizarro, don't forget Pizaro's got a form. I mean, he spent the night with Atla.

Yeah, but he was alive. I mean, he would Would he spend a night with a with Atla's father?

200y old mummy with George III? Would he? I don't know. Uh, do you know what? I probably would just to say that I'd done it for the experience. Wouldn't you? I guess

if somebody said, "Would you like to spend the night with William the Conqueror?" I mean, actually, his body would be

Oh, he's exploded. That would be horrible. Yeah. No, I mean, who would you choose? I would probably choose

I don't know. George V. My favorite king. George the We could talk about stamp collecting.

Be disrespectful, but he he'd be dead, Dominic. That's the point. Yeah, but he'd be about as interesting a conversation as if he was alive. I mean,

I think maybe Charles the second. Yeah, of course. Just for the bands. Yeah. Well,

it would feel less disrespectful. Charles the First would be a twist, wouldn't it?

Yeah, it would. Would his head be sewn on or just rolling around. Exactly. So, they all move into these palaces. What the locals make of this, we do not know. But they don't rebel, you know. They don't rise up. They don't drive the Spanish out. There's no reason to doubt that they do greet them as liberators. The Spanish accounts are buzzing with excitement at the beauty and wealth of Kusco. So Pedro Pizaro, Pedro Sancho, these accounts of the storehouses bursting with stuff, with cloaks, with gold, with weapons, with shields, all the goods that are manufactured in this country, says Pedro Sancho. You know, they can't believe the warehouse is full of stuff cuz there's no equivalent for this in Europe. The central government doesn't just pile up stuff in gray warehouses and have it hanging around in its capital. And then of course the temples, they're the things they've really come for. So

Kusco's temples were full of relics, ornaments, holy objects from other temples because basically if the Incas conquered you, they would demand some of your stuff as a sort of hostage for good behavior. And would the stuff be gold? Often it would be gold. Of course, yes, it would be gold or silver. Of course, the thing they've really come to see is the temple of the sun, the coricanteer, which is the thing we heard about right at the beginning. Now, the wall plates have already been taken to use asparus ransom, but the place is still absolutely stuffed with gold. So, one of the concistadors, Diego Druo, wrote, "As we entered, Vilakumu, who was their high priest, cried, how dare you enter here?

Anyone who enters here has to fast for a year beforehand and must enter barefoot and bearing a load." which is true. This is what you had to do as your kind of ritual thing. But we paid no attention to what he said and went in. I mean, presumably this is all through interpreters. I mean, it's interesting, isn't it, that a lot of the Spaniards when they come to these temples describe them as mosques cuz they're coming from the world of the reconista and the conquest of Granada and stuff.

Yeah. And so the the kind of despolation of mosques would be Yes. very much their bag. And so they go in. Another concisador Juan Ruiz de a uh writes, "Since Atawala had ordered that nothing of his fathers should be touched, we found many golden llamas, women, pictures, jars, and other objects." Are there any golden llamas left? Or did they all get melted down?

No, I don't think there are. See, I remember, you know, we were talking about the children's book last time, the children's books that had pictures of Atala's ransom. It was always golden llamas that were in the pictures for me and sort of images of the sun and things. The two things that really uh are memorable from the temple. So in the rear of the closters was the garden of the sun where all the flowers, fruits and leaves were of pure beaten gold. And we know they were because we know that they took one of them to Charles V's court to show him. And he said, "Wow, melt it down." They melted it down.

Oh dear. They melted everything down. Cuz they did preserve the the Aztec stuff, some of it. I mean, we do have Aztec treasures.

That's a good question about why why there's a difference. And I wonder if part of the difference Charles the fifth at this point is fighting, remember we mentioned he's fighting two wars simultaneously.

Yeah. And the demand for money, you know, in fighting the French and Italy must just be overwhelming. No time for the arts. No time for the arts. The real star of the temple though is a thing called the punch, which it means the dawn. And this was, and I quote, "An image of the sun of great size, made of gold, beautifully wrought and set with many precious stones." This image of the sun was the single most important of all Inca artifacts. And no one knows what happened to it. So there's one bass concistador who basically went around for years afterwards saying, "I lost it in a game of dice or something." Very hand solo or whatever. That sounds improbable. Yeah. Other people said, "That's rubbish. He never had it to lose. It just vanished and it was never found. So maybe it's still buried somewhere outside Kusco. That's the exciting thing. In a cave or something with the mummy of Atavala with Atala's

body. Yeah. Who knows? Now, while his men have been looking at all this golden stuff, Pizar has been thinking about the future of the empire. The day after entering the city, he summons Manco and he says to him, "You know, you're obviously a great chap. I want you to be the new emperor." So, this is a fantastic moment for Mano. I mean just a few months earlier he was a teenage fugitive fearing for his life and now he's going to become the sappa inca he's going to get the whole thing. He goes off outside the city and he fasts for 3 days at a mountain retreat and then he returns for his coronation which is this absolutely massive public event. So he's going to be crowned with this kind of red tassled

Oh yeah string on his head. So the tassel that goes down the forehead. Yes. Exactly. There's loads of dancing. There's loads of fiestas and all this kind of stuff. Have they brought the mummies out?

The mummies come out. That's great. So, Miguel de Estete, one of the concistadors, has a lovely description of bringing out the mummies. They've all got diadems on their heads. They're put on thrones. Uh there were women who ministered to them with as much respect as if they've been alive. And actually, my favorite detail, so the mummies are brought out and next to each mummy there's a little kind of altar with um Miguel deetis says on which were his fingernails.

Oh god. Hair, teeth, and other things that had been removed after death. I mean, imagine sitting next to Queen Victoria's teeth. But what are the what are the other things?

Fingernails. Yeah. Hair, teeth. What does that leave? What else? What are the other things? And then here's the fun detail, and I quote, I think this is from Miguel Deaste again. There were so many people in the parties, and both men and women were such heavy drinkers that all day two wide drains ran with urine as abundantly as a flowing spring. Gorgeous. So just imagine the scene. You're there as a Spaniard. There's a load of mummies being paraded around with their fingernails, teeth, and other things.

And meanwhile, people are constantly relieving themselves into these massive overflowing drains of urine.

So it's like being at a festival, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of Glastonbury, isn't it? Or the rest is history festival at Hampton Core this summer. I don't think that the people who will be coming to our wonderful festival will be urinating and bringing the mummies of their ancestors. I mean, I may be surprised. Who knows?

Yeah. But I don't think so. I put nothing past the members of the rest history club, quite frankly. So, um, the climax of this event is the Spanish who take charge. Vicente de Valverde reads mass and then they parade into the square where Mano is sitting on a stool surrounded by his nobles. And then Pizaro Secretary Pedro Sancho reads out for all to hear. The requirement which we've discussed earlier. It's this mad legal thing that the Spanish have to read. The history of the world, the story of Christ, the history of the papacy and the it's like a brilliant rest is history series and the Spanish monarchy and then the legal obligation of the Incor to accept the pope uh the church and the king of Spain. And then it ends with this warning which always amuses me. If they don't do this, the Spanish are legally obliged to do you quote, "All the harm and damage that we can and any deaths and losses which

shall result from this are your fault." So it's like those little disclaimers that we read at the end of our rest is history adverts.

Exactly. Um may contain Yeah. side effects may include. So at the end Mano and Pizarro share a kind of golden cup. There's a ritual where all his chiefs pay tribute to the flag of Spain. The Incas sing a lovely song um thanking the sun for allowing them to drive out their enemies and thanking the sun for ascending the Spanish to rule over them. Miguel deete says in his memoir, "I do not believe they truly meant it. They only wanted to make us think they were happy with our company." I don't think you have to be terribly astute to uh to draw that conclusion. And then one more set piece.

Sometimes people perhaps the more earnest listeners to this podcast sometimes comment there's a lot of bad behavior towards animals at the rest is history and this is a very good example because Mango decides to celebrate his triumph with a traditional royal hunt which is called a cho and he sends out 10,000 beaters 10,000 beaters to encircle this huge area of the countryside around Kusco and these blo basically have to sort of close ranks slowly until they can all hold hands. And inside this huge ring of people are now trapped all the animals. So that's vicunias and guanakos which are kind of bai llamas. There's road deer, mountain foxes, hairs, and pummers. And then Mango and his entourage enter the ring along with Pizaro and about 50 Spaniards who've all been armed with sticks. And then they have a brilliant time killing every animal in sight, bludgeoning them to death. They're not tossing them.

Not tossing them. And the sources say um they killed 11,000 animals with sticks.

God, I wouldn't want to take on a puma with a stick. No, you wouldn't. In fact, I wouldn't want to take any one of them with a stick.

No, no, I think that's fair. John Heming says on the on the plus side, it was a moment of great cordiality between Spaniards and Peruvians.

It's the universal language, isn't it? Killing animals. Yeah, but bad news, Tom. This cordiality is not going to last because beyond the gates of Kusko, Kiskus is still there with his northern army. And further north, there is an army under a much more terrifying warlord who has just turned one of his victims into a musical instrument. Tom, a very different hunt will soon begin. But this time, who is the hunter? And who is the hunted? Well, we will find out after the break and we will be meeting the human drum. Don't go away.

This episode is brought to you by Claude by Anthropic. Now, history lives in the contradictions. Yeah, I've always been fascinated by the great mysteries of history. Like, what happened to the Maya civilization of Central America? Why were all those great cities deserted? But Tom, there's one mystery that's always fascinated you, isn't there? Yes, Dominic. I've always been uh fascinated by the question of how humans came to make and use fire. How did that originate? And a tremendous discovery was announced just last year that uh the place where it seems fire was invented was Suffukk. Well, you know, one of the things that makes history so fascinating is the kind of back and forth between sources to try and explain these great mysteries. And you know what's built for that kind of thinking? Claude is built for that way of thinking. It doesn't smooth things over. It helps you dig into the disagreement to reveal

something new. Anthropic just committed to not running adverts in Claude so your thinking stays yours. Try Claude for free at claude.ai/rest is history. Hello. Welcome back to the rest is history. It is January 1534. We're in Kusco, the capital of the Incor. And it's only 3 years since Francisco Pizarro set off from Panama. It's a year since he captured um Atawpa. And so far, Dominic, it has to be said, I mean, he has enjoyed an incredible streak of luck.

So many points where things could have gone slightly differently and he and all the Spaniards would have been wiped out. But instead, here he is. He's installed at the, you know, in the great capital of the Incas, you know, the very center of this massive empire. He's got temples. He's got palaces all around him. They've got this compliant young puppet in the form of Mango. Um, he must just be thinking, "This is great. Everything's going superbly. What could possibly go wrong?"

Yeah, you're absolutely right. And now he can really get stuck into what he's come here for, which is the gold. So, some of the gold of Kusco has been moved north to Kayamaka, but not all of it. Um there is a lot more gold in the temples of Kusco and there is four times as much silver as the Spanish have already shared out. So for the Spanish this is basically the best thing ever. So all their accounts you know they say you know wherever you went you basically found pictures of golden effigages. Pedro Pizarro has a section where he says you know we went and found to this cave and it was full of women's shoes made of gold. I mean, you can see why it drives the Spaniards mad because this is exactly what in their wildest fantasies they had been imagining. And now those fantasies have come true. And it will implant a kind of gold lust that will continue to rage for decades and centuries afterwards. Yeah, it will. And

actually the mad thing that about them all falling out, which they do, spoiler alert, they all end up, you know, killing each other, is they were all really rich men. They've got enough money now to buy a country estates back in Spain to make their famil family's reputation, all of this kind of thing. But the lust for more and more just seems to seize them and the competitiveness and the fear that your gold will be taken away. I suppose that's that's at the back of their mind the whole time. There is Christopher Moralist.

There is Christopher Morris. So there was a young priest who wrote an account of this Christo Molina. Their only concern was to collect gold and silver to make themselves all rich without thinking that what they were doing was wrong and that they were wrecking and destroying for what was being destroyed was more perfect than anything they possessed. So it's like the lamentations over the beauties of Tennos Titlan, isn't it? Yeah. After that had been destroyed. And there are people clearly at the time who think, you know, there are one or two people who think, God, hold on. Are we losing our minds here?

Are we the baddies here? Are we the baddies? Exactly. But Pizarro himself is in no mood to mess around. So exactly 1 month after he entered the city on the 15th of December 1533, he says, "Let's start the melting down." And for the next 2 months, as in Kagamaka, the forges are roaring day and night, and they're producing another colossal colossal horde of gold and silver bars for shipment back to Spain. Now, in the meantime, Pizarro is thinking about the issue of the wider Inca Empire. So Pizaro is not a fool. He knows what happened to Cortez in Mexico that Cortez ended up cornered in the Aztec capital Tenostitan future Mexico City and basically had to fight his way out and he doesn't want that to happen to him.

So if we think about the map and think about the Inca Empire in thirds because it's a it's a long it's not wide, it's just very long. The Spaniards are in the central third. So that's basically modernday Peru and they control that Pizaro and Mango. Then you've got the southern third to below that and that's what modernday Bolivia and northern Chile and that so far no Spaniard has been there. They don't know what it's like but as far as they know it's loyal to Mangco. So that's fine. But the problem is the northern third. So that's modernday Ecuador and southern Colombia.

That is Atawelpa's heartland. You know, the civil war in the minds of the people of the north is still going on and the Spaniards are merely a new factor in this war. And one of Atelpa's achievements during his imprisonment had been to spare Keito and the North from the attentions of the Spaniards, hasn't it? He's he's sent all the the kind of the looting party southwards.

Yes, exactly. So if the Spaniards want to unite the empire under Mango, they will have to beat Atawelpa's former generals. Two of whom I mean they've already burned Chalkima, but two of them are on the loose. So one of them is this guy Kishkis who had previously been in Kusco. He's been driven north from Kusco. He still probably has about 20,000 men. So quite battleh hardened troops at this point. Most of Kiskiss's men, although they're battleh hardened, they are exhausted. They've been on the road for what, two years, and they want to go home to Ecuador. And so he's trudging back all this time towards Ecuador with a gigantic mob. I mean, thousands of llamas and porters carrying all their stuff. So bear them in mind.

But there is another general up in the north who is a very ruthless man. And this is a guy called Ruminawi. and he enters this story with some very colorful behavior which we have been um trailing extensively. So basically after Atawalpa died there was a question among the northerners about who would succeed him as the claimment. Atawalpa had a brother called Kilis Katcha and he said well I'll do it and it's not clear whether he wants to be emperor himself or regent for Atawalpa's sons. Anyway, who is the commander the military commander he said you want to do it?

Great. Let's have a big wake for Atawalpa. You know, we'll have a party to celebrate and celebrate your elevation. They have this wake. It's like the sort of red wedding or something. Ruminawi gives Kilis Catcher and his entourage. He says, "Have some lovely drinks. These drinks have been drugged." And when they pass out, Ruminawi's men cut their throats. So, that's the end of them. Well, not quite the end because then Ruminawi literally turns Keelis Catcher into a drum. And I quote, I shouldn't laugh cuz it's hideous.

He extracted all the bones through a certain part. We don't know what that part is. Very koi these corlas, aren't they?

Yeah. He extracted all the bones through a certain part, leaving the skin intact, and made him into a drum. The shoulders formed one end of the drum and the abdomen the other. So with the head, feet and hands embarmed, he was preserved intact but transformed. He was preserved intact but transformed into a kettle drum. Goodness. Well, you know, it's like um Yan Ziska, the Hussite general, but he had himself turned into a drum after he died.

Did he? So the story goes. See, Rumman Yawi's got this bloke as a drum, but they weren't even particularly enemies. He's just a former ally whom he stabbed in the back. I mean, it's a good lesson to others, isn't it? You don't mess with him. So, with this kettle drum, he now rules in Kito as an independent warlord. I mean, he's literally kind of the king in the north, Ruminawi. His problem, however, is now the Spanish are after him. So, the Spanish have heard rumors that Keito is just as rich as Kusko, and they want its gold. Dominic, is there someone else who has heard similar rumors who we have met in a previous series?

The one of the best people we've ever done on the rest is history. He's up there with Augustus the Strong, the Kaiser, and all the other big friends of the show with checkered pasts. He is a man who he loves a gilele. He loves a great laugh. He loves a massacre of indigenous people at a festival. And he loves a weekend trip with the girls to Cornwall to rock or similar. He climbed the Geralda in Seville. He let himself down quite badly in Mexico. He almost certainly went to Taby's old school, Morbra College. He's Pedro de Alvarado.

So, what's he been doing? So, if you listen to the fall of the Astates, you will remember that Pedro Alvarado is a he's a great laugh, but you want to stay on the right side of him. So, actually, he's been roystering around Guatemala and he's been slaughtering indigenous people and being a total legend. and he's heard all these rumors of the uh gold of Peru and he wants in. So he finally turns up. February 1534, Pedro de Alvarado lands on the coast of Ecuador with a load of Spanish infantry and crossbowmen, 500 of them. So he's turned up with a lot of men and 4,000 Guatemalans.

And the great thing about Pedro is everything he touches turns to dust and disaster. Even as he arrives, people in Central America are writing to Spain saying, "Pedro's turned up and it's all going to go horribly wrong for him." So, an official in Panama writes to Charles V., "Although there are many Guatemalans, I believe they will all die soon cuz they're from a hot country and they're going to a cold one." And that sounds like the official in Panama is an idiot, but no, he's actually quite right. So, Alvarado kicks off in absolutely textbook Pedro fashion. He indulges in what John Heming calls some unnecessary cruelty to the uh coastal tribes. Oh, don't do that, Pedro. Oh, Pedro, don't do that. Oh, Pedro. Pedro is such a laugh. So, even by Spanish standards, he is so cruel that the other concistadors later hold a judicial inquiry.

I mean, how bad do you have to be? Yeah. For all the other guys, Pizarro, Macro, all these people saying you you've crossed the line. So to give you an indication, he starts enslaving women and children in sl chain gangs. He hangs some village chiefs. He has people burned alive. He has one local chief fed to some dogs cuz he's brought a whole load of ward dogs, hasn't he?

Yes, he has. Bloody love a dog, a hoon. And then once he's had some fun there, he heads uh inland into the forest towards Kito, having enslaved hundreds of local people to act as his porters. Big spoiler alert. This is not going to end well for the porters or indeed for anybody else associated with Pedro de Alvarado's expedition

and the other Spaniards, the other concistador leaders. When Alvarado turns up, it's a bloody massacre, right?

Yeah. I mean, you kind of go, "Oh, no." Yeah. They're gutted. Not Alvarado. He's a little bit unreliable. Going to be bloody carnage. Exactly. They're gutted. They're They're shocked actually. And immediately two other rival armies shoot off. I say armies, they're sort of expeditions to try to beat Alvarado to the gold of Kito. So one of them goes from the coast and it's 200 men under one of Bizaro's captains, a guy called Sebastian Debenal Cathar, who is from Anderuthia. The chronicler Theater Deleon said he was a man of little knowledge, poor origin, and a low intellect, which doesn't really uh inspire confidence.

Yeah, but actually he he does quite well as we shall see. And the other is Al Magro, Pizarro's partner. Imagine if you're Al Maggro, right? You've already been cheated out of load of gold once. Now you think, well, at least I'll probably get the gold. And now Alvarado has turned up with his red trousers to get girlfriends.

Oh dear. You're like, oh no. So what happens next is a bonkers story. It's very I already mentioned Game of Thrones. It's very George RR Martin. It's actually a shame that the Spanish chronicers don't go into it in loads of detail. So, you know, the details are a bit sketchy. Ben Al Cath gets there first. He goes across the desert of northern Peru. He goes up into the mountains and he comes out on the high moors of southern Ecuador and he's picked up a load of native supporters called the Canari. The Kari had always hated the Incas. Atela have been really cruel to them. They basically can't wait to have a crack at Keito. They can't stand Kito.

What about the Wanker? The Wanker are out of the picture now, Tom. They're not part of it.

No, they're not part of it. So, they advance towards Kito and they get to the shadow of Mount Chimbor. That is so fantasy story, isn't it?

And at the hamlet of Teachas in the shadow of this mountain, this bloke Rumin Yawi is waiting for them

with his drum with his huge drum and his massive army. Do you know I reckon that Alvarado would I mean he'd find that a bloody good laugh

with a drum? Yeah. Yeah. He'd turn loads of people. He'd have an old orchestra of people. on bones.

What would be the most amusing instrument that you could make somebody into? An Ober. You'd be gutted if they said you you're going to end up as a triangle. You really would.

Anyway, this battle, right? I mean, historians, first of all, they can't agree when it happened. Possibly 3rd of May 1534. They don't even agree what to call it. So, some historians call it the Battle of Teachas. Some people call it the Battle of Mount Chimber. They can't agree. It's a massive battle that no one knows anything about. So the Spanish chronicler Gonthalo Fernandez Obiedo claimed that there were 50,000 people fighting there. Nine out of 10 of them were indigenous. The the Spanish are only a tiny element of this battle.

But the Spanish because it's on the high moors that favors the Spanish horses. And Oedo's account is great actually. He says it started with this sort of Lord of the Rings, you know, battle of the Pelenor Fields charge by the Spanish cavalry that were shouting Santiago and I quote, they attacked fiercely, trampling the Indians under their horses and causing great bloodshed with their lances. Terrible bravery and fury was shown by either side. The Indians rallied to a cry that this was the moment to fight for their liberty. The Spaniards shouted that their very lives were at stake. The Indians bravery was exceptional. Although they saw the battlefield soaked in blood and covered with the bodies of their dead. And although they realized their doom, they fought on with marvelous vigor, lacking neither strength nor spirit. So it's this great sort of Tolkeness clash and Ruminari's men were in danger of

breaking, but then they rallied. They killed some of the horses. Maybe they did manage to club them to death or hit them with a drum or whatever. and they force the Spanish to fall back and night falls and the two sides are deadlocked. And you would think this might be a disaster for the Spanish since they're outnumbered. But overnight the Spanish tricked the um kitons. They left their campfires burning but they slipped away in the darkness and ruminawa's men didn't realize till it was too late. And did they just leave their porters and behind? I think they must have left some of them I guess. But what this means that basically they able to get into keto. So Ben Alcatha and his men are able to basically skirt Ruminawi's army and get into Kito. But when they get there, they're gutted to find that Ruminawi has already taken sort of Russia 1812 style action. Ruminawari has gutted Kito. He'd taken all the

treasure. He's taken Atawalpa's family. He's taken 4,000 women and he's set fire to the palaces and the storehouses. And he's withdrawn. is basically withdrawn with all them into the forests. Some poor behavior by Ruminari. Ruminari and his men said to the virgins of the Sun Temple. There were 300 of them. You should leave with us because the Spanish will arrive and they will rape you if you don't. And the virgins said, "No, we don't want to." So Ruminari's men killed them all. Do you know if Rummani told me to do something, I would do it. I'm not going to mess around. I'm going to go, "Yes, fine, whatever. Please don't turn me into a drum."

So then the Spanish disgraced themselves massively. They couldn't find the treasure. They sort of raid around the local countryside looking for the treasure. They can't find it. They start slaughtering all the women and children demanding, you know, where is the gold? Even the official royal chronicler of the expedition said this was cruelty unworthy of a Castellian. God, that is stern words. Those are stone words. And actually, if you're Ecuadorian, you think things are bleak. But now things are going to get a lot worse because both Diego demagro and Pedro de Alvarado

are fast advancing on the Ecuadorian heartland. So Almagro arrived first and actually he behaved himself by his own standards quite well. Unfortunately, it's a very different story with Mulber Collegeg's Pedro de Alvarado because he he has absolutely disgraced himself even by his previous standards.

So, basically after he left the coast, he got completely lost in the jungle. His men were hacking their way through the jungle being attacked by insects and ravaged by disease. All their stuff rusts in the humidity. They're caught in they're caught in a volcanic eruption and covered with ash. So they're covered with they He says, "Come on, you know, stop complaining, man." They get through the jungle, they emerge into the Andes, then they go the wrong way and they go up the the highest mountain pass into the Andes. So they're winging through snow drifts covered with snow. 85 Spaniards died of exposure or hypothermia because they'd gone the wrong way in this mountain pass. But just as that bloke in Panama had predicted, all of the Guatemalans and Al Farad's native porters and a huge mob of female camp followers literally freeze to death as well. It's classic Alvarado.

It is. They've all died. He hasn't died, however. He finally approaches Keito where he finds the other Spaniards waiting for him. And basically, everybody thinks there's going to be this huge interplan battle, but one of them blinks. And do you know what? This is a very poor advertisement for Taby's old school because the person who blinks is Pedro after all that. What's going on there? He's lost his bottle. He's completely lost his nerve. I think because he's covered with snow and volcanic cash and he's killed all his people. He's lost his his mojo a little bit because basically he does a deal. He will sell all his ships and gear to Alagro for 100,000 gold pieces.

all his men that he's come have come with him, the ones who are still left, will stay in Peru and work for the other Spanish generals, but he himself, Alvarado, agrees that he will leave Peru and never come back.

That is a shame. And he goes back to Guatemala sort of in disgrace. And if people want to know what happened to him, his later life, there was a lot more sort of roystering around in Mexico and Central America, a lot of killing people and unnecessary cruelty. And he ended up dying in a very amusingly benile way. He died in 1541 and a had a freak accident when a horse sat on him, didn't he?

Yeah. A horse fell on him. He had a very um a very impressive wife. Don Louisa, the governor of Guatemala.

Yeah. And I think she's in the entire history of the Spanish Empire in the Americas. She was the only female governor. Is that right? They're both buried in I can't remember what it's called. Is it called Antigga or something like that? In an old the old capital of Guatemala. I've often thought I'd like to go and see his grave. Tabby says she went and saw his she went and saw his portrait in uh Seville when she went to Seville.

Good on Tabby. So that leaves two of the Spanish generals, Almagro and Ben Alcatha, to deal with the northern warlords. So first of all, Kiskish has been trudging all the way up from Kusco with his colossal llamas. And does he know what's waiting for him?

Not really. No. No, he doesn't actually. So there's a bit of mountain pass action, skirmishes and stuff which we won't go into. Basically eventually they emerge into southern Ecuador, him and his men. His men arrive in Kito province to discover the Spanish have captured their capital. They are gutted. They can't believe it. They thought they'd won the civil war, you know, a year ago or whatever. And now they've got home to find that these weird bearded men have basically killed everybody and seized their own city. They're distraught and they go to Kiskus and they say to him, you know, look, General, go and ask the Spanish for peace. Quote, they are invincible. And Kiskus says, "You cowards, I would rather starve in the wilds than bend the knee and surrender my country." He reminds me of Shal De Gaul. And is he similarly successful?

Does he emerge as the leader of a proud and independent Incan state? No. But when he says that, his officers take out their clubs and they bludgeon him to death.

So that's the end of him. John Heming says it was a tragic end for one of the empire's finest generals who passionately resented the menace and humiliation of the conquest. So I feel sorry for him. He he didn't turn anyone to a musical instrument. He led his men with great valor. He wouldn't surrender and he ended up on the wrong side of a club. And that's sad. Okay. But the guy, I mean, kettle drum guy, he's still very much on the scene, isn't he?

He is, but he's lost momentum, too. A lot of his men desert. They think the Spanish can't be beaten. He's taken refuge in the mountains outside Kito. And at last, a concisador called Miguel de Lica gets a tip off that Rumin Yawi is resting by a mountain lake. Quote, "When I reached the lake, the Lord Rummeni was beside a small hillock leaning against a tree. I closed with him and after struggling for a very long time I captured him. And so Ruminawi is taken under guard back to Kito where Sebastian de Bellakatha is in charge of interrogating him. Whether he's got his drum with him, I do not know. Does he have any gold? No. Hasn't got a drum.

Hasn't got gold. What's the point of him? I'd like to think he's still got his drum. But surely they allow him to keep cuz Atala was allowed to keep the severed head of that bloke to use as a teapot or whatever. So surely this guy is allowed to keep his human drum. Anyway, they torture him. They burn him again. More singing. Where's the gold? No joy. And at last they bring him out 1535, June 1535 into the main square of Kito. And they execute room Yahawahi. I think they burn him as well. And the conquest of the north is complete. It's rapid, isn't it?

Yeah. It's what, it a year? Yeah. To conquer the whole thing and beat two armies.

Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of it, I think, not because the Spanish overpowered people in battle, but they just it's about morale. The Katons just sort of lost heart. They thought they can never beat the these BS with the horses. Also, I guess a key point, they've got tribal allies. The Kari people I mentioned, you mentioned with great enthusiasm, the Hankas. Yes,

they've got various such people. What did we say in the Aztec series? Diversity is is not their strength. So now you might think this is the end of the story, but you would be wrong because back in Kusco, Mango has been surveying all this and thinking this is not quite what I thought it would be. He's slightly riding a crocodile here. Yeah, because clearly, you know, the Spanish have been melting down all this gold and silver all this time. Took them 3 months to do it and then Pizaro shared it out. But the Spanish do not stop there. Now, every previous Spanish expedition to the new world had degenerated quite quickly into disorder and feuding, and the conquest of Peru, I'm sorry to say, is no different. So, in March 1934, Pizarro had refounded Kusco as a Spanish city under Spanish law. And at the time, Pizarro, to be fair to him, had directed the locals should be well treated. And I quote,

"The native people of this country were created as our brothers and are descendants of our first ancestors." I mean that's the sort of message of the lascazas school isn't it Tom?

Yes. That there are always people in the Spanish world who are saying if we are true Christians we cannot treat these people just as slaves and as you know dogs and all of this. We can't burn them and chain them up and execute them. We've got to treat them properly. We've got to be true to our principles. Yeah. But I mean it never crosses their mind that turning up nicking their city turning into something completely else. I mean that's quite bad. Well, I think we think it's bad. They didn't think it was bad. They thought it was tremendous.

Yeah, I know. But the problem, I think, is they don't even do the bare minimum because Pizarro's men are clearly disobeying him. And we know this because he's having to send out constant instructions. Stop looting gold and silver from the locals. Stop mistreating people. There's a story about a concistador called Gonzalo Maldonado who ignores him. He imprisons the high priest of Kusco and says, "I won't let you out until we give me gold and silver." And Pizaro basically has to threaten to execute this guy to force him to release the high priest. It would still have been possible surely for the people of Kusco, the native people to rise up and wipe these people out.

Yeah. But at this point, Mango and therefore the elite are on their side. On their side. because of course at this point they are still using the Spaniards in their own minds to conquer the north and this is what's changing in Mano's mind and I suppose also what is starting to happen at the same time is that all these guys who've been told brilliant there's loads of gold um out in Peru who've been coming from Spain are starting to turn up are beginning to turn up so this is a huge thing the colonial officials across the rest of the Spanish Empire that's the Caribbean Central America are already writing to Spain and saying there's going to be nobody left. The news from Peru is so extraordinary that old and young men alike are packing up to go there. Unless they're tied down, we won't have a single citizen left. That's from Puerto Rico. So, there are loads of such letters. And there are so many people

arriving on the coast now that Pizarro decides, we're going to build a new base on the coast, a new city on the coast. And he picks a site in January 1535. He wants to call it the city of the kings Theodad de los rees but it ends up being called after a local oracle which in Ketwa was called the speaker or limac i.e Lemur. Now, meanwhile, all these people, as you correctly say, Tom, are turning up and they want something. Now, the gold's being distributed. So, what Pizaro is giving them is land. He is giving out huge trackcts of land to Spaniards, entire villages, thousands of laborers. What you would do if you were a settler, you would live in a Spanish townhouse, Spanish built in a Spanish town, a Spanish foundation in Peru, but you would be given huge landed estates outside the town. And you would be given hundreds or thousands of workers cuz remember there was no private property before this. There was no private

enterprise. There was basically enforced labor. you would be given thousands of so-called Indians who are obliged to deliver regular tribute to you.

So this is the the encomenda setup that the Spanish have been practicing in the new world since the very beginning.

Yes. Especially in Mexico and which is so open to abuse. Exactly. It is. I hate to use the jargon because I don't like using jargon generally, but people talk of settler colonialism. And if you want a really good example of extractive settler colonialism, this is a very good one. And actually, royal officials are telling Pizaro, "Stop. Stop giving out other people's lands. The Indians so-called are free Spanish subjects under the crown. It's not your place to give them to people." But the other concistadors keep saying to him, "We want more land." And if he wants to keep his position as top dog, he has to appease them. See, a big problem for Bizarro. Bigger problem for Manco though. If young Manco, the young emperor, is is watching this in his palace. He is thinking, "What's happening? My empire has been given away around me." His position of course is incredibly insecure. He's young. There's

been a civil war. You know, there's a growing sense that he's a Spanish puppet. There are complaints coming in to his palace all the time. The Spanish are behaving badly in the countryside. They're enslaving people. They're raiding villages. They're searching for gold. And then in the summer of 1535, two things happen that are absolutely disastrous. One of the Pizarro brothers takes a fancy to Mano's sister, who is also his wife. And secondly, the feud between the Pizarro brothers and Diego Demagro reaches boiling point. and what we'll be talking about next time. Mango summons his people to war. The battle for Kusco, one of the greatest sieges in the history of the Americas. Pizarro's darkest hour and the bloody climax of his feud with his former business partner Diego de Almagro. So, still so much to come. Um, and Rest is History Club members can hear that episode right now, of course. And if you would like to

join them, if you would like to pile in to the Kusco of our special offer in the rest is history club, then you can go to the restish history.com and do so there. But for now, goodbye. Bye-bye.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "The Biggest Ever Gold Heist | Fall of the Incas EP 4"?

Tom Holland (Host), Dominic Sandbrook (Host), Pedro de Alvarado (Guest), Diego de Almagro (Guest), Francisco Pizarro (Guest), Manko (Manco Inca Yupanqui) (Guest), Kiskis / KisKi (Guest), Ruminawi (Guest).

What is "The Biggest Ever Gold Heist | Fall of the Incas EP 4" about?

A dramatic account of the cash-for-death gold heist in Kusco, detailing how Pizarro’s conquest party seizes Inca wealth and power after executing Atahualpa, while forging a new southern-backed puppet ruler and moving toward the fabled gold of Kusco. It also promises a pivotal battleground confrontation and the rise of a notorious Inca warlord.

What is mentioned in this The Rest Is History episode?

53 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Cuzco, Inca, Francisco Pizarro, Manco Inca Yupanqui, Gold, Atahualpa. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The Biggest Ever Gold Heist | Fall of the Incas EP 4"?

The episode runs 1 h 5 min; the transcript is about 12,033 words in 150 timestamped sections.

More from The Rest Is History

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated October 29, 2026.