Transcript

How to Stay In Love: Mandy Patinkin & Kathryn Grody

From We Can Do Hard Things · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 20 min · 12,945 words · 208 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "How to Stay In Love: Mandy Patinkin & Kathryn Grody", an episode of We Can Do Hard Things published October 16, 2025 (1 h 20 min, about 12,945 words). It mentions 9 people, works and ideas, including Katherine Grody, Mandy Patinkin, Don't Listen to Us, Calm, Oasis of Peace Nealom.

What this episode is about

Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody share an intimate look into their 45-year marriage, discussing the joys and challenges of love, parenting, and aging, while exploring the parallels between raising a child and nurturing a dog. Through their heartfelt anecdotes, they emphasize the importance of commitment, joy, and the impact of their Jewish heritage on their lives and relationships.

Key takeaways

  • Mandy and Katherine: redefining marriage goals by sharing their messy love story, not just the highlights.
  • Couples weathering the brutalities of intimacy proves commitment can thrive amidst life's chaos—true relationship alchemy.
  • Katherine's new show reminds us that aging can be celebrated, not feared; optimism has no expiration date.
  • A candid glimpse into their lives reveals the power of vulnerability—embracing flaws leads to deeper connections.
  • Dating advice from seasoned stars: strive for authenticity; love is messy, not a polished Instagram filter.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Katherine Grody, Don't Listen to Us, Mandy Patinkin, Nathan Gunn
  2. – 20:00: Calm
  3. – 50:00: Don't Listen to Us
  4. – 1:00:00: Don't Listen to Us, Heaven Can Wait, Social Security
  5. – 1:19:31: Mandy Patinkin, Oasis of Peace Nealom

Notable quotes from "How to Stay In Love: Mandy Patinkin & Kathryn Grody"

  • With their son, Gideon, and a new Lemonada media podcast, Don't Listen to Us. Katherine Grody is an OB award-winning actor and writer whose work spans theater, film, and…
    about Katherine Grody · at
  • Get it. It's They sell it at all kinds of places. Everywhere you go, they got it. It's called Calm. And young people, you don't have that many cramps, but you should practice for when you get older.
    about Calm · at
  • He made me laugh. But I was sitting with Michael and Mandy comes out in the show and I say out loud now he's my type. What am I doing with you? I wouldn't usually say something like that Glenn and I might think it.
    about Mandy Patinkin · at
  • You came up with this way of communicating and connecting with people. And that's what we're trying to do with Don't Listen to us is create a kind of community, a kind of messy embrace of the messy human authentic.
    about Don't Listen to Us · at
  • Franklin Delano Roosevelt came up with social security. What American doesn't want that? And what did the forces of the right say? Oh, you're a socialist.
    about Social Security · at
  • I also just want to share when she says these things, I it triggers in me. I loved Warren Batty's movie, Heaven Can Wait. Whenever he'd, go into the next person that he'd…
    about Heaven Can Wait · at
  • And there are so many groups that have been struggling to address this from a school with 45 Arab kids and 45 Jewish kids going to school together. It's called the Oasis of…
    about Oasis of Peace Nealom · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Katherine Grody — Person · Main guest · 2 mentions · first at
    Co-interviewee; discusses her one-woman show about aging/“Elderhood,” marriage patterns, sentimentality/time anxiety, and values-driven advocacy; provides many of the episode’s reflective frameworks.
  • Mandy Patinkin — Person · Main guest · 2 mentions · first at
    Co-interviewee; discusses marriage dynamics with Katherine Grody, aging, introversion/quiet, Judaism, and public advocacy; also referenced for his career and touring concerts.
  • Nathan Gunn — Person · Referenced collaborator · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as a notable collaborator in Mandy Patinkin’s concert work, signaling cross-genre credibility (classical/opera and musical theatre).
    Criminal Minds. He has toured the world with his solo concerts and collaborations with icons like Patty Leone and Nathan Gunn. Since 2020, Mandy and his wife, fellow performing…
  • Patty Leone — Person · Referenced collaborator · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as an example of Mandy Patinkin’s concert collaborations, reinforcing his music/performance career beyond acting.
    Criminal Minds. He has toured the world with his solo concerts and collaborations with icons like Patty Leone and Nathan Gunn. Since 2020, Mandy and his wife, fellow performing…

Companies & orgs

  • Oasis of Peace Nealom — Company · Referenced organization · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as a school with Arab and Jewish kids learning together, representing peace efforts.

Products & tech

  • Don't Listen to Us — Product · Primary recommendation · 5 mentions · first at
    Mandy and Katherine's new podcast discussing the messy human experience and creating a community around it.
  • Calm — Product · Recommendation · 1 mention · first at
    Recommended by Mandy as a magnesium supplement to help with leg cramps and sleep.

Concepts & topics

  • Social Security — Concept · Referenced concept · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned in the context of political discussion and societal support systems.

Media & podcasts

  • Heaven Can Wait — Media · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as a movie that inspired Mandy's idea for a wishing well.

Full transcript with timestamps

Mandy Patinken is a Tony Award-winning actor, singer, and storyteller whose career spans four decades across stage, film, and television. He's known, of course, for unforgettable roles in Avita, Sunday in the Park with George, The Princess Bride, Homeland, and Criminal Minds. He has toured the world with his solo concerts and collaborations with icons like Patty Leone and Nathan Gunn. Since 2020, Mandy and his wife, fellow performing artist Katherine Grody, have offered a delightfully unvarnished glimpse into 45 years of marriage, sparking live shows with their son, Gideon, and a new Lemonada media podcast, Don't Listen to Us. Katherine Grody is an OB award-winning actor and writer whose work spans theater, film, and television. She won Obies for Top Girls and The Marriage of Betty and Buu and earned a drama nomination for her onewoman play, A Mom's Life. She has long been active in advocacy with groups

including the International Rescue Committee and Downtown Women for Change. This fall, she premieres her new onewoman show, A Radical Rollicking Rumination on the Optimism of Staying Alive, exploring the transition into Elderhood at 78 years young. These two, what you are in store,

they're the best. I mean, this hour, these two, obviously, there's a reason they are two of the most beloved love bugs on the planet, but in this hour, you get to feel it. This like way that they have brought so much joy and commitment to their marriage, to their parenting, and to their the planet. They talk about um the arguments they have over and over again and what they really mean.

They talk about um what it actually means to love a dog or raise a child and how they're similarly the same. um the the the terror and beauty of watching time pass so fast and trying to hold tight to it and then how their Judaism has um compelled them to show up in this moment on this planet exactly how we needed them to just snuggle in and listen to these two and allow them to heal your heart.

They're um marriage goals goals goals goals. But what is so cool about them is they've been separated twice in their lives. Like so it's that it's just very credible. It it feels it feels like um goals is like maybe that's attainable. It feels like they struggle and they're messy and they were actually in our conversation kind of working some things out. You saw them be like what I would like from you is could you do that for me? It was very special to be a part of.

Yeah. They're like still actively fighting for their marriage, their connection, and their love, which at their age, I'm just like, that's it's goals. It's goals.

Exactly. Yeah. There's something that one of them said, not in this interview, a different time, where they said they have over the years survived and thrived through the brutalities of intimacy.

Yes. So good. The brutal It's brutal to be seen like they see each other. And it's also so beautiful. They said, "It's a daring thing

to have weathered the brutalities of intimacy. It's a daring thing. It's an astonishing thing." They are daring and astonishing. I love them. Enjoy.

Hello. Hello. Hi. Well, hello. Catherine said you you would be wearing your hiking shirt. Are you wearing

Honey, what did you hear? What? Yeah. I said you'd be wearing your hiking shirt. Was I right?

Yep. And open for a nice little sexy look. I'm already so delighted. I just can't handle this. You two can't understand how excited we've been to talk to you. You two. And the reason we're absolutely faking delighted that you are launching a new podcast and Catherine, we want to hear all about your play, too, is because I know you're going to say that this isn't right because you're always so humble about who you are. But you are exactly what the world needs right now. You are so human.

I told you this world is up. That's why. Can you Can I just interrupt this for a second? How do I turn off the ding every time? I can't remember.

I mean, nobody gets it. I don't get notifications. So, don't text me if it's urgent or timely. Use the phone. The old-fashioned vocal apparatus. You know,

the oldfashioned vocal apparatus. That is what a phone is. Tell them what you call these things in your ears, honey.

Huh? What? What? What? Tell them what you call the things that are in your ears. I you know I didn't know that I was going to share my hearing accessories. Pink gold. Pink gold. I waited six weeks to get the pink gold ones. They were prettier than the white.

You changed the name of them to hearing accessories. Yeah. Hearing accutraments was the first one.

Accessories. It's an upgrade when you put it like that. Yes. Well, as I say in my show, instead of a humiliation.

Are you doing a show, honey? What show are you doing? What show are you doing, hun?

I don't know. It's just this little thing in Malvin, Pennsylvania, 20 minutes from Philly, you know, near the Barnes Collection.

Oh, I didn't know that. What's it called? It's called the unexpected third. A radical rollicking rumination on the optimism of staying alive. Well, that's a who's in it.

Me. Can you tell us a little bit about it? Yeah. Tell us a little bit about it.

It is Glennon. It's been a long time coming. I think I've been pissed off about how this culture deals with age, certainly since 50, and that was quite a while ago, you know. And um I just couldn't stand the way people were disappeared or assumed about. Do you know there was a point where before my hair became this color, which I do thank my husband Mandy Patinkin for encouraging me to do because I was on my way to my nice vegetable hair dye person once uh probably 15 years ago and he was following me saying, "You haven't seen it in the sun. You think it looks natural, you would hate it. And I'm saying, "Don't follow me. I'm not old enough to have white hair." Well, now I am. And I actually, that's the one thing I like better, aesthetically speaking, is the color of his hair. So, I've been pissed off about this topic for a long time. And Huh?

Aging. Yes, honey. Aging. And you know, all all the things I do turn out to be things that I think people in the culture at large are experiencing, but nobody's really talking about it. like mom's life came from, you know, how you always see if a guy has a snuggly, you know, and he's wearing it's a front page of New York Times magaz

it's not a Hallmark card. This is some challenging period and I thought I was going to be really exceptional and do it differently and it was all just about your attitude and how you care for yourself but happens you know that is not quite in your control and it is it is stunning and then you start losing people more often than you are used to and it is just a sort of rumination on how you keep going and surprise yourself and don't up and that whole finished idea of being finished. I hate hate the term seniors. It's like been there done that. I don't mind elder. It has some dignity. It has some gravitas. So that's part of

I mean my favorite thing, you know, I uh I love, you know, look, let's just face it. We're we're here to bang the drums so people go see this thing at the People's Light Playhouse in Malver, Pennsylvania. Previews start September 17th till October 26. Get your assber.

Well, the extension, honey. Right now, I'm supposed to go till October. No, no, no. October 26 is the extension, right?

Well, we're hoping it's Yes, it will. It will. It will. Don't think that way. It will. But also, here's the big thing. Tell them, Katherine.

Yeah. What? When people came to see it in Rosendale, an early workshop, and people came to see it in other workshops in fluorescent lit rooms, you know, where there was no set or anything, tell them what young people had to say because that knocked me out.

Well, no, you know, this was really moving to me. I knew people of a certain age would respond to this, you know, over 50. But what blew my mind I I'll never forget I've done I've been working on this thing for three years, 10 workshops. I mean really it's like just clawing your way. But this young woman named Mariah came up in Rosendale, New York, upstate New York. And she was crying and she said, "Catherine, I'm 30 years old. My generation tells me unless I have my place, my person, my profession, and my Botox account. By 35, my life is over." And your play says that's And I was so moved. And you know, I I don't I don't have a litmus test of how you age. I'm just saying it's not a shameful thing. It's not an inhuman thing. I don't want to stop the process. I don't want to think of it as a disease.

You know, look, obviously I'm prejudice. This she's written many pieces. She's performed them. I fell in love with her because she's an actress that is just so truthful. But I promise you, if you drag your butt down there, I promise you, wife, 47 years or not, you will not be disappointed. It is It is beautiful. Becky, be quiet.

Becky, we love Becky. You do, Amanda. I do. What's that? I'm glad you love Becky.

I love Becky, too. I do too. I love Becky. Love Becky. Come here, Becky. Come here to Becky, baby. this idea. That doesn't surprise me because

they love you. Oh, Becky, baby, you're such a good baby. This is the nicest thing I've done for my husband other than our two sons.

Let him have a dog. I'm not a dog person, guys. But here we are. But I feel like dog not dog people are just people who haven't had dogs yet, right? Yeah, I think you're actually right, Amanda, because we got two black labs at the same time when our 42-year-old was 12 and uh he needed a dog, my husband needed a dog, I said, "Okay, to make everybody happy

and I started, you know, I remember this one time, it was late at night, of course, I started and ended my day in New York City with little bags of dog poop and I was so pissed off and I was just like this is not what I imagined, you know. And then it was very late at night. It was raining and a cab stopped at the corner and I heard some young guy I say, "Sir, please make sure this man gets home." Okay. And I looked up at the corner and it was our older son, Isaac, helping an elderly person into a cab and saying, "I hope make sure he gets home safe." And I remember thinking, "Okay, that's what I've been doing.

It's not dog poop. That's what I've been doing. I've been raising decent decent

human men." You know, you know, you two, it's so funny because we wanted to focus this talk about how to um throughout life, even when things get tough, sustain and maintain a loving, beautiful marriage relationship. Mhm.

And how when things get tough to maintain your relationships with your children as parents and then also with the world.

Yeah. Um to your your all's commitment to your Judaism and healing the world has been so inspiring. And I feel like in the first 10 minutes of this, we didn't ask any questions, but you already showed us Yeah.

how that happens. your support for each other, the play, Mandy, the way that you just focused on Catherine's, and then Catherine, you just were like, I don't like dogs, but I let him have a dog. Like the whole and then the kid thing

and and and can I give a uh a real helpful thing to folks that are listening of all ages? You know, it's interesting this thing about getting older. I find it fascinating. And I talk to some of my getting older friends and I say, you know, there's no preparation for this. First of all, I believe that you should be when you're 120, you should feel the same way you do when you're 19, 20, 21, 31, 41, 51. So, all the way down the road, that's how you should feel. That's how all of us do feel. Every now and then though, some other parts of our body don't seem to agree with that particular sentiment, but but you know, to hell with them.

We're moving on and we're getting new parts or we're finding ways around it. But there is a little thing. I woke up in the middle of the night for my I don't know third fourth pee and then uh I I uh I had these terrible leg cramps which I started getting as I started getting older and I thought this horrible and I spoke to a nutritionist one day and I'm telling you this I'm selling this product. I'm not you got to get this product. It's a magnesium supplement. I went down boiled some hot water put a teaspoon of it in hot water and I put it in the hot cup. Then you put cold water so it's not too hot. And I drank it and I forgot. I started forgetting to take it. It is a miracle drink.

Get it. It's They sell it at all kinds of places. Everywhere you go, they got it. It's called Calm. And uh and you know, young people, you don't have that many cramps, but you should practice for when you get older.

That's really I feel like a very concrete, helpful thing. I thought you were going to give us some advice. This is better. I mean, it's better. Just buy this.

This works for me. And I don't know. I actually don't know if it calms you, but it certainly calms the leg cramps. Makes them go away.

And uh I you know, and then therefore, you know, you sleep better and and it's great. And if you take it, Katherine often she's away doing the play, so she she often brings me the cup before I fall asleep. And so, you know, I'm not there to get my glass of water or my cup of coffee because she But you know, that's how it goes.

He goes to bed at 8 o'clock and I go to bed at 1 in the morning. So 8 o'clock is late for me, honey. 8 o'clock.

That's true. That's not going past seven when I'm working away from home. So, Catherine, what do you do between 8:00 and 1:00 a.m.? This is sort a similar vibe to my parents. So, I'm just wondering what My dad goes to bed at like seven and then my mom goes to bed much later. What do you do during those? I I talk to friends that live on the West Coast or I try and get people in South Africa or in England or I uh go through my piles of newspapers and try to call them so my husband won't throw away what I want to keep. I keep explaining to him that newspaper and things like if you make collages or stuff, it's not going to be here. They're going to digitalize everything.

They digitalize us. So I need to keep it. I go through those piles in in your personal space.

Yes. Yes. So otherwise it's a recyclable item. Yeah, that's right. I try and hide things that he won't throw away. I still remember I had kept there was a wonderful columnist named John Leonard for the New York Times that I adored in my 30s. I even ended up going to a public um uh celebration of him and I didn't know him at all. I just loved his work and I kept all his columns for like 10 years in this striped bag in a shared closet and my husband threw those out.

I don't think that's true, Katherine. Honey, that is true. You threw out my John Leonard columns. I've forgiven you.

No, no, no, no, no. Honey, I think you are making things up. I think you're getting things mixed up. I did not I don't go in your closet and throw bags of stuff out.

It wasn't in my closet. I didn't even have a closet then. It was in our bedroom and you threw it out from a corner. Well,

well, maybe it had been there for three or four or 15 years. Probably right. Three or four or 15 years.

Maybe it was a home for spiders and and all kinds of creatures. Yeah. Well, see, here's an example. But we let it go. That is how we solve our

Clearly, honey, you haven't completely succeeded with that. You just brought it up on a national podcast.

What did I do? You just I'm not going to let it go. I'm sort of mad about it. Thank you. That I just threw out something very precious to you.

No, but you just said that it was collecting dust and it was in a You just said you let it go. You didn't let it go.

Oh, that's true. There you go. I have a question because I'm wondering if this because I know the newspaper issue.

Yeah, we'll just call it an issue. I don't know if it's a problem, it's just an issue is a recurring

um it rises and and we deal with it on an ongoing basis. Yeah. And from my understanding, another issue is used to be at least this like the anxiety over the passage of time. And I'm wondering as you talk about like your play and getting older and even the need to hold on to the newspapers because they're going to be digitized. Like is a lot of this about that? Well, as you can see in the background of of my husband, we have all our vinyl collection.

Yeah. Right. Which I love. And we never play one of those records. Every now and then Joan Bios comes on and

every now and then I mean our our house is like could be a museum of the 80s, you know. We have our CD players which we don't use. We have our cassettes which nothing can get played on. We have our DVDs that I keep meaning to transfer. You know, it's just artifacts including us. But but um I you know it's a really it's a really I find it very challenging to to honor what is valuable to me. I'm very sentimental, so I don't throw out anything. And I That is part of

case in point. You bet your ass. You You aren't kidding. She She's missing a chip and she didn't know to get rid of me. So

I would never ever ever get rid of him. You know, it's always been so strange to me. You know, we only understand 5% of the universe. This is a true thing, right? So, I'm always curious about what that 95% is that we don't know anything about. And I'll never forget, I was home from college in San Francisco visiting home. I had two younger brothers watching TV. And I just passed them, you know, and came back cuz there was this commercial on. I don't usually watch commercials now or then, but I was just struck. And there was some young guy pretending to be a like 70s greaser, you know, at a soda shop. And I came and I said, "Oh, who is that? Who's that kid?

He's really good." And that kid turned out to be my future husband, Mandy. Oh my gosh.

And and you can YouTube it. It's a It's Teen Angel from the Seven Up commercials in 1969 or 70 or 68, something like that.

Yeah. And I I was with I I knew one thing. I knew a few things. I was going to be in the theater. I was going to be a mom. I was never going to go out with an actor. Uh because one in the family is enough. And I I wasn't totally wrong about that. But but I was with

Yes, you were wrong. One in the family is not enough. Okay. I I was at Mandy's first professional show in New York, Trani of the Wells. I was with my boyfriend of two years who is this great uh political guy named Michael Yuli. He started Safe Return Amnesty for Vets in Canada. He discovered he uh outed Agent Orange.

He blew whistle on Agent Orange. Yeah, he did. I'm thinking this is who she's with before me.

What on earth does she see in me? He made me laugh. But I was sitting with Michael and Mandy comes out in the show and I say out loud now he's my type. What am I doing with you? I I wouldn't usually say something like that Glenn and I might think it.

I said it which was so odd because you know young actor not me. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. But here we are. 47 47.

But we're friends. We're friends with uh Michael Ule. Yeah. And then I think most of her exes were at our wedding.

Oh my gosh. How did what happened next? So you were like that that's my vibe. Not you. And then how what happened next? How did you guys make contact? What was the first dates like?

We have the rule. If you want to tell it, you tell it. We don't tell the same story twice. So

because he has his version, I have mine. And mine's always wrong as far as she's concerned.

Okay. I, you know, I thought I was hot stuff. I'd hit New York running and I'd done several plays and I was going to go to Europe and this playwright Michael Weller whose shows I had done was doing a two-week workshop at Ensemble Studio Theater and asked me to do it and I said, "No, no, no. I I've worked so much, you know. I have to go see The Real World." Some like that. I don't know if I can say that. Anyway, and then he said, "It's only for two weeks. I really want you to do it." And I said, "Well, who's in it?" And he said, "Chip San, Ela Bronka, Mandy Patinket." Oh, that kid

Danny the Greaser. Danny Stern. Danny Stern. Danny Stern. Yeah. And I agreed to do it. And um and I remember Michael coming out after one of the first rehearsals saying, "So, what do you think?" I said, "Oh, he's great. I love working with him." "Oh, you mean for me personally?"

I said, "No way, Michael. He's a baby. He's an actor. He's a little crazy. No, no. the next person I'm with is going to be the father of my children and he's not in it. He's not it. So that shows you how wrong I am.

So we're hoping soon we will meet the father of our children. Wow. We're all very excited to bring this person into our family fold. But so far he hasn't knocked on the door, but it could happen any day and we're all very open to it.

Well, I'm jealous of that person already. They get to join your family eventually. What a Gideon Isaac. They did a great job.

Careful. Careful what you wish for. Yeah. You know, we are highly edited as Gideon will say, you know, highly edited for all those people that during the pandemic wanted us to adopt them. It was like, well, this is one vision of us. You know, we are just like other families that drive each other crazy.

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Besides the holding on to things and letting go of things which seem which seems to be perhaps a thing for you all, what would you say we have been taught by many therapists that every couple really only has three or four arguments that get repeated at nauseium if you're lucky for 50 years like you. What are your repetitive issues

arguments or conflict? are much more prolific than three or four, don't you think?

Of course you are. They're the creative type, so you know. Yeah. But a lot of the fights they revolves over and over again.

Yeah. And they usually the root of the fight is is a very similar thing, right? So it might be about moving the couch or it might be about whatever, but like really it's about hearing each other, control, power, whatever it is.

Yeah, you go first. Oh, no. You go first, honey. Maybe. Okay. What? I was going to say you go first. It's interesting. I'm trying to think.

Um, well, I I think one of the issues we always deal with, I will tell you, is my excessive speaking, you know, is that I'm very afraid of quiet. Abby

is raising her hand. Yes. I I uh gave my husband a birthday gift several years ago and at the end of the day I asked if he had noticed what it was and he said yes. He loved it because I basically was mute for most of the day.

That's literally Glennon's biggest dream. It's your biggest dream. Well, okay. I've just given you the the gift of

really helpful, you know, and I survived it, Abby. Yeah, I mean, you know, I had like I like to share. I I sort of like to turn my mind inside out and it's not necessarily consecutive connections. It's just, oh, did you read this article and oh, I heard this and oh, do you know where we're supposed to go now? Or do you know who drove me nuts or and it's just sort of a rambling stream of consciousness

thing that I enjoy sometimes to uh a greater degree than being sensitive to my companions desires of maybe wanting to say something or just being confident in the quiet, which he's much better at than me.

Confident. How do you experience this, Mandy? Well, I I'm I I'm thinking about my beautiful cousin who we love, my Israeli cousin Al Zooker,

who uh was very, you know, worked hard, had different kinds of jobs. Then he went back to school to become a landscape architect. And I said to Al toward the end of his uh studies, I said, "What's the most interesting thing you learned in this course, you know, to to learn this skill?" He said, "Negative space. what you leave empty.

And I love quiet. I have so much noise in my head all the time. Not literal noise, noise that Mandy makes silently in his head that's explosive. And uh I just I wish for peace in my brain.

I wish for quiet. There's a woman who I don't remember her name. She's a doctor. wonderful book called Quiet. Susan

Susan Susan so good it's my favorite book and and talked about uh people who are introverts so you wouldn't think that you know people who are in show business or public lives you know would be introverts yet I am and and the people that she points out are and in the 30s and 40s and 20s all the uh um Ivy League schools Harvard Yale Princeton they had courses to to be outgoing, to be extroverted, etc. That it was a bad thing if you didn't know this. And uh and you would fail at the in in the course of life. And uh and you couldn't you can't get over the people that she talks about that were introverts and what they accomplished.

And and so I I just I just wish for those who are quiet, who those who are shy, for those who have trouble entering a conversation, that is one of your great gifts. Don't don't doubt yourself. I will say this, and it's not a criticism of my beloved. It is it is a um

it's a concern that I'm sure she's not the only one that that uh deals with this. She's always been a much more social person than I was. She would go have breakfast with somebody, then lunch with somebody, then a tea in the afternoon, go see a matinea, go see a play in the evening. Very active life, all the kids stuff all the time. I mean, I could not keep up with her, you know. No one can keep up with her. She's the ever ruddy ever ready bunny of humanity. And uh and I I I have noticed in the past um I don't know 8 to 10 years but but certainly the last five to seven uh without a doubt since the pandemic no question a kind of hysteria about time

and I and I feel for her because I feel she's so afraid of losing anything and anyone and afraid of the clock and the sand finishing in the hourglass that she tries to pack in everything, every podcast, every newspaper article, every book, everything that everyone says. I remember one time I said to her, you know, I held up the New York Times. I said, "Look at this. Isn't this an interesting thing?" I said, "You know, it doesn't talk. It doesn't talk. It's just a paper. And and I don't need someone to read it out loud to me every word. And and I I wish if I had one wish for my my beloved, it would be that she would not feel that the clock is moving that fast. Honey, you may be one of those people like Anti used to say, you should live to beundig 120 like uh uh what was Abraham's wife's name? Sarah, you know, because she was like 120 when she had Isaac, I believe, her son's name.

And and that you have plenty of time and and that you don't have to feel that uh you know, you got to pack it in. And and there's one other thing that I'd like to mention since we're because I she won't listen to me unless I'm on national show where where you can't edit me. So, so this is this I I I long for this. I like chocolate.

You got a couple of hours, guys. So, the other thing is if you're sitting around if you're sitting around with folks and uh and and there's a there's a pause. She can't handle quiet

and so she has to fill it as opposed to I would say to her and she's getting a little better at this. She is trying. She is improving. But I need her to work harder at it because there isn't that much time.

Thanks a lot, guys. Because the sands are going through the arguments and I want her to enjoy it. And and and that it's so interesting. I think it's interesting that if you're sitting around a table with a bunch of people and you're the one talking and then it gets quiet, why don't you just wait and the person that hasn't said anything, maybe they'll talk and maybe they won't. And maybe it'll be quiet until everyone leaves for some strange reason. Or maybe not. But you don't have to keep the talk going.

What do you think about that, Katherine? Thank you. Um, thank you. I'm so grateful to the three of you for this opportunity to hear that. Um, I think he's really right and uh I have really been working hard. First of all, the slightly off thing is I love people. I love frigin people. They are my passion, my interest, my curiosity. I love all kinds of different people. And the pandemic was extremely difficult

uh because it was the two of us and and the trees, you know. Um and I don't even think we've begun to realize how that period has still impacted us and is in terms of how we deal with each other or if we're only comfortable in this space and not tactally, you know, involved. But I really do know that that is an anxiety of mine. If if I if there's a big quiet and I I perceive someone to be uncomfortable, I try to comfortable, you know, without realizing I'm the one that's uncomfortable.

But so I I think that is something I'm really working on. I really make sure I um leave space for other people. um my younger son's partner when he first met her. She didn't say much when we were around and I was worried it was because of my excessive talking and I asked her about it. She said no no no I don't feel that and then explained what it was. So I am aware of it but what I would say to my husband um who is much better with quiet I also want to say there's nothing pjor I find when when parents apologize for their kids saying oh they're shy like there's something wrong with that

you know or it's a quiet kid that um in the 20s that Dale Carnegie book we were a country of people with character and he sold everybody on being a country of persa ality. So suddenly everybody was being taught to perform some some version of theirelves that could get them somewhere else.

Yeah, I think that's a like we do. Yes, that's right, Tony. That's right. Well, you read the book. You read the book.

I didn't read the book. Me neither. Made so many friends and influenced so many people. But I want to just say that my husband is totally right about quiet. I'm really working on it. I'll probably work on it till I stop being this in this body, you know, but I am working on it. However, what I would like him to work on and acknowledge is though he is great at enjoying just this. Thank you, honey. Take those notes. He forgets that he also sometimes enjoys being with people. And there have been many occasions where I've said, "I'd like to have dinner with so and so. I you can go. I don't want to." And I will say, you know, they're really nice. Uh they're very nice or they're not in show business or they're, you know, whatever.

And I have to really push him and then he's amazed that he had a really good time or a really nice time. So I mean this is a deal we could make on public with you know

I make that I'll do that for you. Okay. I mean so we you know he can expand his ability to be a little more interactive with fellow humans and I can work on not taking up so much space.

I'll do one person a year. Perfect. You guys, this is so helpful to me because we Yes. We have the exact same exact exact same same issue and we are always talking about how to work on it. But I will tell you that you know I'm always saying can we just be quiet? Can we just have a space? Can because I'm always worried that a person who takes a little more time to speak needs some space

to speak and and when you have kids you think about that a lot. Like you don't want the the quietest person at the table to never get a minute to to speak. But I will tell you that recently my mom was visiting and Abby was out of town

and we were in a room together and she was just staring at me and I was like where's Abby? Like

oh this is the service she provides me like she talks. No, I have to. It's a It's a It is also a labor of love that when she's not there, I notice

what a service it is to keep the conversation going. I totally agree with you. Yeah.

Yeah. I know. It's a It's a blessing and a curse at the same time. Yes. Yeah. But it really is a blessing. You get to listen. You get to rest. And you know, Sonheim wrote this great lyric, "Careful the things you say, children will listen." Careful the things you do, children will see and learn. Children may not obey, but children will listen. Children will look to you for which way to turn to learn what to be. Careful before you say, "Listen to me." And and I I really We are all children till it's over.

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singing a song, acting a song, he has this new concert called Jukebox, which he's on tour for soon. And it just is an affirmation of the gift of being an alive human

at any age. So he is doing that same thing, being up there, being this force, do you know? And I think that the work you guys do on your podcast and the work we're hoping to do on don't listen to us is, you know, there's this um uh expression that Isaac came home when he was working in Ecuador. It's better in Spanish, which I can't do, but it's there's nothing so bad good can't come from it.

And in some ways, the horror of the isolation and with all the horrors of this technology, which are so many, um, and the struggle to be in charge of it and not have it be in charge of us, but you came up with this way of communicating and connecting with people. And that's what we're trying to do with Don't Listen to us is create a a kind of community, a kind of messy embrace of the messy human um you know, authentic non AI community of of people that are struggling to make sense of the world in a time where it seems to make utterly no sense, when it's frightening, to ground each other, even if it's in this little rectangular thing. talk, have connections with each other, uh, across, you know, all ages and ideas and, you know,

do you only meet people in this forum or do you also meet people in the room sitting next to you?

Well, this is interesting that you ask. Um, we just decided that we were going to meet people in the room and then I freaked out and changed it and went back to this. Um, so there is some I am a writer. Um, and so one of the things I'm most comfortable with is my ideas getting to people without my body being involved.

Um, also Mandy, I have heard you say that or Katherine, maybe you said it about Mandy that you deeply love humanity but only a few specific human beings. I I love humanity so deeply. I have always said, I will likely die for you, but I will not meet you for coffee. And I don't know what that's about, but I like am most comfortable right now. It

And also you guys, for me, there's a like I want to keep real life a little bit separate.

Yeah. Than work life. And for my body and spirit, I have to maintain. It's like capitalism is everywhere. So now if I'm sitting on a couch with my friend and having a come and it's filmed, I'm like, where's the line here?

You know what I mean? You know, I'm thinking while you're saying all this, it also does eliminate a favorite thing of mine, which is the back door, the escape.

And uh if you're sitting in the room and I go, well, we have to stop now. It's it, you know, wait, did I say something wrong? Did I help you? Was I not interesting? You know what? and and and there's an uncomfortable moment and no, the answer is often like no, I got another appointment. It's only for x amount of minutes and uh and and that's it. But when you're in the little boxes and of the machine, it's it's already more less personal, less not personal is the word. It's just it's less of that. It's less of trying to say it's it's safer.

It's safer. Yes. Safer. I think in my life I want more and more real. That's why I love you guys so much. I want more and more real. I want more embodiment. I want but nonmonetized non content like

current culture uh Glennon was you know hey let's hear it from mandami that's just my point of view and I so wish somebody would be able to say I wish he would I think I just tried to write in some form he probably won't get you know Franklin Delanor Roosevelt came up with social frigin security right what did I just do I just did something and everybody got Oh, I have there. Okay. I just did something on the machine.

Perfect. Franklin Delano Roosevelt came up with social security. What American doesn't want that? And what did the forces of the right say? Oh, you're a socialist. That big boogie word, anybody doesn't want their social security. Let's take that. That word means many different things and it's practiced many different ways. And basically we need to be more generous in sharing our resources. Do you know?

Yes. I don't think that should be a problem. And the fact that business business interests are all up in arms should just hopefully get him another 10,000 decent all kinds of people saying, "Hey, we can do this together. We can be better humans. We can make our cities better in a humane way, not in an insane authoritarian way." Don't get me going, guys. You can just edit this if you need. You kidding?

This is exactly what we all try to keep your hands off the computer. I know. I touch everybody like this banging the table. I love it.

She's having an internal earthquake and we're here for it. My my director, Timothy Near, who was my idol in college. She was a couple years ahead of me and she's directed all three of these solo shows I've done and we're still working. 10 years ago, we were working on a piece called Falling Apart Together. And she looked at me, she said, "Kath, do you realize we're almost 70 and we're still working like dogs for no money? And now she's 80 and doing the stuff

and I'm almost there." But I was talking to her one day and and she said, "God, Kath, watch your hands. You almost poked my eye out." And I said, "Getting touchy in our old age, aren't we?" And then a couple days later, I called her up and I said, "Tim, I apologize." I was talking and I almost poked my own eye out. That's a good idea, honey. If you had me sit on my hands at a dinner table, I probably wouldn't be able to speak.

Thank you. I'll write that one down. Okay. Catherine, can you put into any words what this feeling is about holding on and time passing? So, we were having a conversation recently where I was had this week where I was obsessed with getting all of the children's names and things tattooed on my body and like messages from my parents tattooed on my we're like, what? Where is this coming from? And it was like, you know, the Virginia Wolf thing of just life stand still. Life stands still. Like, how do I make this this impermanent thing somehow permanent for myself? And I feel that so much from you is can you just so many of us feel it. How does it feel?

Quote quote the line part. Don't not quote the line that you wrote for a mom's life. The first

This is so amazing guys. He just I love you. Telepathy telepathy. I I was thinking of several things. One is in that first plan mom's life I say to my baby at one point don't grow. Don't change. Don't lose your baby teeth. Just stay as you are. Perfect and small and all stay this way too. And neither of us will grow or change because the way this is is perfect. But living things do grow. We are not bonsai plants. Do you know? And I think um my brother was a Buddhist monk. And one of the things that I think is very true. All suffering comes from us grasping, holding on to that which is impermanent. And you can tattoo all your babies. I can keep all their little things they made when they were five, which they're just horrified by. But the truth is, we're all impermanent

and we are future dust. And I think the way we can hang on to the love the most is by being in the moment

and not being so afraid of what's over and not being afraid of what's going to happen. But be here now as fully as you can,

you know, and live and breathe in this moment till it takes you to the next one. And that's that's how we're fully fully alive. You know,

real key says his poem, hold beauty and terror in one hand. Let everything happen to you. No feeling is final. So that's, you know, really hard to do, guys. I keep every freaking piece of I picture my kids when I'm gone. Oh my god, they're going to have a the worst fight of their lives because my older son is much better at letting go. He's just gonna toss, share, let it go. Gideon's going to want to go through every drawer and find every secret and find everything. It'll just ruin them. So, I have to do this before I'm gone so that doesn't come true, you know.

Oh, God. I also just want to share when she when she says these things, I it it triggers in me. I loved Warren Batty's movie, Heaven Can Wait. Whenever he'd, you know, go into the next person that he'd embody, he'd fall into this well. So, I said to Katherine, "I I want a wishing well." Uh, and she found one in the village from France, you know, the cement thing in the top and everything, and she bought it, and she had it shipped to our home and and it's a flower bed and everything, but it's beautiful. And I always told the boys when they were little because I would I take walks everywhere all the time every day and I would stop where there's water on a bridge and I say my prayers and my meditation my wishes for the world and all people who are vulnerable and need extra extra service from all of us. And and and I and I watch the water and I say the prayer and I watch the water take them

out. And and I've always said to the boys, "Look, if I'm ever not here for any reason, just go to the wishing well or go to the water and I'll be there."

I really mean it because my, you know, that that higher power in my view, and I was brought up as a conservative Jew in Chicago, blah blah blah, is Einstein's theory of relativity that energy never dies. So if you want to connect with any entity that was made up of protons and neurons and energy, it may not look like the four or five. How many of us? Two, four, five, five of us are. But but we're there in some way. Sound, my sound man taught me. He said, "Sound never dies like light. Light is millions of years away and then it hits our eyes."

Sound is the same. So when they put out those things in that Jodie Foster movie and look listening for sound, sound is the same. It travels and so listen, take a walk. Most of all, try to listen and see if you can hear your own thoughts. That's the toughest one.

But but it never dies. I believe it. I need to believe it. I say every person's name every day in my prayers, on my walks, in my meditation before I walk in front of an audience or a camera or a microphone because Oscar Hammerstein, and I've said this in everywhere I go, it's it's one of the best things I think I can offer anybody. He wrote in Carousel of All Things, a musical, this line, as long as there's one person on earth who remembers you, it isn't over. So I say their names, people who were acquaintances or you know, you know, just people I connected to, some seriously, some just, you know, casual, but I bring them there and I put them right here so that when my moment comes, whenever wherever I'm going, I won't be alone. And and I and I don't want to be alone when I'm on stage or in front of a camera or talking to my kid about something important. And I believe I deeply believe I'm not a woo woo person,

but somebody would say, "Well, you ought to check yourself out again because you're sounding pretty woo woo."

I don't give a what I sound like. I'm telling you, this is my comfort. And why should why should embracing or being open to possibilities that haven't been proven materially, why should that be dismissed as woowoo? You know, it's just like why should sharing resources be dismissed as you know that I mean you know that whole mythology of the individual being the greatest thing that is

say it again. What is it? What's the mythology? Say it again. The mythology of individuals being the most important thing here as opposed to us working together. And that's what these podcasts do. And that's what Don't listen to us honey. We have to mention it a couple times because that's why we got invited to have this wonderful

Please stop it. You know, you know, Shakespeare in Hamlet, there are more things um

on heaven and earth. Hamlet says it to um uh who who did George Horatio. Hamlet says it to Horatio. Um there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

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Can you all tell us a little bit? The the world in our home and everyone we know has been deeply moved by the way that your Judaism has led you to speak out um against the genocide in Palestine. What are you Can you talk to us about how your Judaism informs the way that you're showing up in this moment?

Go ahead. Well, you know, Mandy, as he said, was raised as a conservative Jew and his mom was so happy he found a Jewish girl, but she didn't know I was a Southern California Jewish girl.

Which men's you celebrated Russia shana, Passover, Hanukkah, and practice social justice, you

know, and that was a very different notion than what Mandy grew up with. And my dad was a son of Russian Jewish immigrants. He landed on Normandy on D-Day.

Wow. He deeply deeply believed in a democracy being about civic responsibility and participation. He had a 30-year correspondence with Senator Allan Cranston and my dad had no money. That was the really important thing.

Letters two-page single type about policy. No money. I recently found and all my stuff a little thing a thank you note from Eugene McCarthy for my dad giving him a hundred bucks. That was a long time ago. A lot of money for my dad. So my it's tinol lum that means seal the world. Okay. And it means one person at a time. You know the old starfish story with the kid cleaning up throwing all the starfish and the dad saying you can't possibly save all these starfish. What does it matter? Well, it matters to this one.

You do what you can. You practice kindness. You stand up. This is what I was raised with as a kid. My dad was in that army for five years, was in Germany, was in places. You stand up for injustice wherever you see it. You practice common humanity. And it is excruciating to have to say that the word anti-semitism is being bandied about. It's a serious thing. Mhm.

I do not want anyone to practice othering anybody because of their religion or their beliefs or the way they look or what they practice. But don't use that as an excuse to commit heinous wars against humanity

and it's excruciating. It's it's like watching a country commit suicide and go crazy and the entire world is wondering what has happened. And I I every time I hold a grandchild, I imagine being a mother in Gaza or Ukraine, you know, or a weaguer in China. I mean, you know, it is very easy to say, I can't deal with any of it, so I'm just going to upsent myself. And I think we all need to have moments of the day where you focus on the joy and beauty

as acts of resistance, but examine our own lives. examine if we're doing enough. Examine if we're using our voices, who we know in our neighborhoods. Expand our social interaction with the people that maybe are not in our circles that live in our communities and just keep demonstrating, keep shouting. I mean, I was lucky enough to be in a generation. We stopped an unjust war. We did civil rights. We had the first Earth Day. We redefined what sex and marriage and family could be. Let's keep doing it.

Yes. Even though it is very very profoundly sad and awful, but our species adapts sometimes too well. Maybe there's flowers growing in the burnt parts of LA.

So, I don't know what else to say. I'm talking to myself because I often just wake up weeping and then I'll talk to man. He'll say, "Did you read the paper today?" or you know or I'll tell him some horrible news and he'll say please don't start my day with that.

Yeah, that sounds familiar. Yes, you need to start with okay we're alive, we're well. What can we do today to love each other, to love our circle, and to see see what we can make better just little bits at a time.

Beautiful. There's fl There's flowers going in the growing in the burnt part of LA should be the name of a poem.

Well, really beautiful out there. I mean, I was very touched to read about that. You know, all these fire people are seeing these and species of things they didn't even know were there originally. So, we just have to uh not be afraid to speak up.

Amen. And I just want to I just want to say Mandy and and Katherine, you both have spoken up and everybody's seen that the viral clip that went that that that happened a couple weeks ago. Um Glennon, her favorite movie of all time is The Princess Bride. And so,

it's just me. Just Just a weird. She's an oddity of hers. Yeah. And we just want to say that you you saying what you said was really important and profound and um and we are just so grateful to you for speaking up on behalf of all humanity and and the people in Gaza and Palestine.

Yeah. You know, I just wish for the horror and the and the killing to stop. I can't bear it.

I can't bear it on both sides. You can make lists of the atrocities that have taken pay place over time. You know, from October 7th, every Jew needs me to say that 1,200 people were killed on October 7th. 250 hostages were taken. Yes, that's not good. Yes, you need to return the hostages, but how many Palestinians have been killed over time? In what situations, in what circumstance? The bottom line is people on either side who are running these two entities, these countries, these caretakers of the humanity of these countries are not interested in creating a peaceful solution. They will not stop hating each other. They only want to annihilate each other. Both of them do.

And when they say they don't have a partner in peace, they are covering up the fact that they don't have themselves as a partner in peace either. And until you're willing to sit down and create a possibility, Sunday in the Park ended with my favorite words, so many possibilities. Until you're willing to create the possibility of people of unlike minds, religions, customs, history, ownership of land that no one can own. until you're willing to address that in a humanitarian manner to write the wrongs to take it from not the the the wealth of history that you cannot correct but from this moment forward make it the best world possible for the unborn to come into.

You can't ask yourselves to carry on with this burden on your souls from either side and your children. It's not liveable.

And there are so many groups that have been struggling to address this from a school with 45 Arab kids and 45 Jewish kids going to school together. It's called the Oasis of Peace Nealom. There is the bereieved parents both who have lost people. There's breaking the silence.

I bring attention and fundraising to the Abraham u now I forgot the orchard the orchard of Abraham which when I was filming Homeland in Israel on two occasions. beautiful organization of a of an Israeli woman and a Palestinian Arab man that started this school for preschoolers and now it goes all the way through all the grades. You know, they they it's so beautiful. Palestinian and Israeli teachers. It's everything that you would wish. There are pockets where this takes place. but to annihilate the structures where people have have a roof over their head where they not to not to allow food and medicine to come in to take care of the innocent. You know when when when when you when you turn to violence and war and revenge, you have lost.

If that is your answer to a problem, you have lost. Stop. Full stop. right there. Go back to the path, take a walk, find a friend and a partner and come up with more humanitarian solutions

and don't tell me and scream in my ear about what was done to my people and what and so what everybody says what was done to my people, what was done to my people. You know, everybody's everybody gets bad things done to them. It's the history of the world. Why are we living here right now? Where are the Native Americans?

Okay, this is why the solution really is let women run the world for just 200 years because we absolutely have a better ability to compromise. We do not need excessive power and control. I'm not saying we're perfect and there certainly have been people uh Thatcher wasn't, you know, my idol, but honest God, you know, really really we can help um people come together because we are faking genetic nurturers is my bias. we can communicate and um that's just one of my solutions. You know,

sit in a room with a group of Native Americans from any group that whatever they're doing, you will feel the pain in their DNA. You will breathe it in. It doesn't ever go away. You can't do this to humanity. And if you want to be somebody else, stop being naive, Mandy. That's what life is. That's what war is. Learn a little bit about history. It's conquerors and winners. And they take the land and they take this and they take that and then it's theirs. At what cost? At what cost

and and if you can live with that and ignore it for eternity, go right ahead. But I can't. Guys, I am so moved by my husband because I'm a 60s person. He missed the 60s. He was doing milk commercials. I was, you know, in a state of shock. I mean, Vietnam, I took it personally because I went to college thinking we were the nicest country in the world and only did nice things. Right. Right.

Right. That pissed me off very personally. When I met Mandy um and we were talking about things, he said, "I'm not political." Right? I asked I asked him if his parents were Republicans or Democrats or you know uh working families socialists and he said they're road fisetians. And I said, "Oh, what's that?" And it was the brotherhood and sisterhood of his temple.

Okay. So, not political. And right after that, we're on a bus and he is like 25 and I'm an ancient 31. And he sees an older person running for the bus just as it pulls away. You know, probably 20 years younger than me, but perceived as an older person. And he said, "Driver, driver, there's somebody trying to get the bus." And then he pulled the cord to stop the bus. And I looked at him and I went, "That's political." Ah, that is political

and umhuh you know I want to make a plea. May I interrupt? Yes, you may. I want to make a plea to your elder listeners. Mhm.

If the younger listeners are concerned about the greatest privilege that they have in a democracy, which is the privilege to use your voice, and in this climate, if you're afraid of that because you might lose your job or your sponsors or your healthcare or your neighborhood standing or your home or any or your life, if you're afraid, I can understand that and I'm empathetic toward it. And we're seeing and hearing horrible things every minute every day. But you elders out there, you people who know that your elders, take up the slack.

Do it for those who are too frightened to speak for whatever reasons. Some of them have good reasons. You've had a long life, you elders. if you have enough to take care of the roof on your head and and and a stipen to get by till it's over. And I I I know some don't, but some do. And those who do are the ones I'm talking to, use your voice. Use it twice, three times, thousands of times. For those who are not able to use their voice or too afraid, I have nothing to lose. I've been given everything more. I've been given more than I ever imagined.

My wife and two children and two grandchildren first and foremost, but if I my life was over this second, I've had a glorious existence. And I want to pay it back by using my voice and asking my fellow citizens globally to please use your speech. Speak your heart and your mind. Wherever you go in your church, your school, your local dinners, to your kids at the table, use your speech. Don't remain silent. We need to hear you. The world is dependent on your voice.

Well, you too. Thank you for that. Thank you. We adore you. No matter what you try to tell us, we will listen to you.

Yeah. You can't you can't stop us. Well, we might have to we might have to steal from this conversation for ours.

Anytime, please. Oh my god. Anytime. Thank you for your love for each other, for your love for family, for your love for the planet, for your love for humanity. It comes through in every word that you say. Um we're so grateful that we are here with you on this planet at this time. Well, it's such an odd way to meet such lovely people and maybe we could meet just this group in a small place and it wouldn't be

Mandy. He's like that's going to take up two years worth. Three of them, honey. And he said one.

Well, we we didn't make that much progress, but it was you know, let's keep trying, Catherine. Okay. Let's keep

I am I am thank No, thank you for being you guys. You are all the best. Thank you so much you both.

We can do hard things is an independent production podcast brought to you by Treat Media. Treat Media makes art for humans who want to stay human. And you can follow us at we can do hard things on Instagram and we can do hard things show on Tik Tok.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "How to Stay In Love: Mandy Patinkin & Kathryn Grody"?

Glennon Doyle (Host), Mandy Patinkin (Guest), Kathryn Grody (Guest).

What is "How to Stay In Love: Mandy Patinkin & Kathryn Grody" about?

Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody share an intimate look into their 45-year marriage, discussing the joys and challenges of love, parenting, and aging, while exploring the parallels between raising a child and nurturing a dog. Through their heartfelt anecdotes, they emphasize the importance of commitment, joy, and the impact of their Jewish heritage on their lives and relationships.

What is mentioned in this We Can Do Hard Things episode?

9 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Katherine Grody, Mandy Patinkin, Don't Listen to Us, Calm, Oasis of Peace Nealom, Nathan Gunn. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "How to Stay In Love: Mandy Patinkin & Kathryn Grody"?

The episode runs 1 h 20 min; the transcript is about 12,945 words in 208 timestamped sections.

More from We Can Do Hard Things

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated February 15, 2026.