Transcript

Brock Johnson: Is Instagram Dead? Unlock the Secret to Explosive Social Media Growth

From Young and Profiting · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 9 min · 14,439 words · 130 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Brock Johnson: Is Instagram Dead? Unlock the Secret to Explosive Social Media Growth", an episode of Young and Profiting published December 9, 2025 (1 h 9 min, about 14,439 words). It mentions 51 people, works and ideas, including Reels, ManyChat, Instagram algorithm, Insta Club, email list.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Instagram algorithm, Insta Club, Brock Johnson, Build Your Tribe
  2. – 20:00: hyperconsistency, Marketing Harry, Revolve Holiday Shop, revolve.com/profiting
  3. – 30:00: carousels, hashtags, trending audio, trial reels
  4. – 40:00: QuickBooks, Framer, Design Pages, framer.com/design
  5. – 50:00: email list, attract, nurture, convert framework, conversion content, DM automation
  6. – 1:00:00: DM automation, authentic content, email list, Insta Club
  7. – 1:09:18: authentic content, Brock Johnson, DM automation, email list

Notable quotes from "Brock Johnson: Is Instagram Dead? Unlock the Secret to Explosive Social Media Growth"

  • Today, we've got a guest who has cracked the code on Instagram growth, Brock Johnson. Brock is an entrepreneur, Instagram growth coach, and co-host of the top marketing podcast, Build Your Tribe.
    about Brock Johnson · at
  • Talk to us about what you learned about the Instagram algorithm and maybe what you know about some of the shifts that Instagram is taking as a whole. I would say the biggest takeaway that I learned if I had to summarize everything into.
    about Instagram algorithm · at
  • First question to you, because you've accumulated over 800,000 followers on Instagram. You've got your Insta Club hub courses and things like that. And you've even like…
    about Insta Club Hub · at
  • Being not very good, 10 being a very good strategy. Okay. First, using trending audio, I'd say six and a half.
    about trending audio · at
  • Music to your carousels. I never heard of that. Hashtags, one, very overrated, not a reliable way to grow on Instagram. that was like one of the biggest aha moments. I've been saying that for.
    about hashtags · at
  • Customers because it was all being sent from one ideal viewer to another. So, shareworthy content is really the best. Shares are disproportionately the best form of engagement on Instagram.
    about shareworthy content · at
  • Course there's the actual conversion content, which is what gets people onto your email list or into your business or whatever it may be. and so my exact percentages vary…
    about email list · at
  • A link. I am never saying go click the link in my bio or put a link on my stories. It's always DM automation. It's always comment a keyword to get a thing, reply with a keyword…
    about DM automation · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Brock Johnson — Person · 3 mentions · first at
  • Marketing Harry — Person · 1 mention · first at
    One of my good friends who's also in this Instagram coaching space. marketing Harry is his username. He said that my superpower is hyperconsistency and I loved that term and I…
  • Mustafa — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Honestly, your words mean the world to me. In fact, I've got to give a huge shout out to Mustafa, who recently wrote, I love the energy, the topics that Hala picks, the very…
  • Halataha — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Yapwithala or LinkedIn. Just search for my name. It's Hala Taha. Until next time, this is your host Halataha aka the podcast princess signing.

Books & papers

  • The Gap and the Gain — Book · 1 mention · first at
    Two years or something like that. So, it reminds me of something that Benjamin Hardy taught me about the gap and the gain. the gap is where you're always comparing yourself to…

Companies & orgs

  • ManyChat — Company · 8 mentions
  • Insta Club — Company · 4 mentions · first at
    Podcast, Build Your Tribe. He's grown on Instagram by nearly a million followers, co-founded Insta Club with over 50,000 paying members, and even consults directly with Meta on…
  • Build Your Tribe — Company · 2 mentions · first at
    Instagram growth coach, and co-host of the top marketing podcast, Build Your Tribe.
  • Framer — Company · 2 mentions · first at
    When I first heard about Framer, I thought, Oh, just another website builder. But I was totally wrong. And I love being wrong when the alternative is this good. Framer already built the.
  • Carrot Financial — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Pros and cons, but I think it's 1,000% still possible. And there was a recent study put out by Carrot Financial, which is a financial institution that looks at the average…
  • New York State Department of Financial Services — Company · 1 mention · first at
    Provided by Intu IT Payments Incorporated, licensed as a money transmitter by the New York State Department of Financial Services. Hey y gang, as a CEO, I'm always looking for…

Products & tech

  • Insta Club Hub — Product · 3 mentions · first at
  • QuickBooks — Product · 3 mentions · first at
    We've trusted Inuit products for years now. And I can tell you that in it I QuickBooks is essential when it comes to our cash flow and ensuring that we have strong cash flow.…
  • spectrum.com/freeforlife — Product · 1 mention · first at
  • Revolve Holiday Shop — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Small to 4X. And since it's that time of the year, you've got to check out the Revolve Holiday Shop. They've got sparkly dresses, cozy sets, and the cutest gifts and every…
  • revolve.com/profiting — Product · 1 mention · first at
  • edits app — Product · 1 mention · first at
    Could disclose on air, but he did show me quite a few updates that are coming soon to the edits app, which is like Instagram's version of Cap Cut. It's Instagram's editing app.…
  • QuickBooks Money Solutions — Product · 1 mention · first at
    The platform that help you get paid faster and pay your bills smarter. With QuickBooks Money Solutions, you can say goodbye to manual bill entry and reduce manual work by half.…
  • quickbooks.com/money — Product · 1 mention · first at
  • Design Pages — Product · 1 mention · first at
    With the recent launch of design pages, a free canvas-based design tool, Framer is more than a site builder. It's a true all-in-one design platform. From social assets to campaign visuals to vectors.
  • framer.com/design — Product · 1 mention · first at
  • CapCut — Product · 1 mention
  • yapwithhala — Product · 1 mention

Concepts & topics

  • Reels — Concept · 10 mentions
  • Instagram algorithm — Concept · 5 mentions · first at
  • email list — Concept · 4 mentions · first at
  • DM automation — Concept · 4 mentions · first at
  • trending audio — Concept · 3 mentions · first at
  • hashtags — Concept · 3 mentions · first at
  • shareworthy content — Concept · 3 mentions · first at
  • TikTokification of social media — Concept · 3 mentions
  • interest media — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
    Of social media and really a change from social media to now what we're in, which is interest media. It doesn't matter as much today how many followers you have.
  • hyperconsistency — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
    Marketing Harry is his username. He said that my superpower is hyperconsistency and I loved that term and I really have embraced that and continued using that since he said that.
  • trial reels — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
    Posting trial reels to reach nonfollowers.
  • carousels — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
    Yeah. Okay. Nine. Nine. Carousels.
  • authentic content — Concept · 2 mentions · first at
    Really focused on my business. And one of the things that I really want to do is just create more authentic content and create reals. Like a lot of the stuff is like my team's…
  • You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with — Concept · 2 mentions
  • YouTube Shorts — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    If you're like making short form videos, you might as well also post them on Tik Tok and YouTube shorts. Maybe you'll pick up traction there. But put your energy and your focus…
  • Direct Messages — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Have been recommendations. So, like you seeing a post from someone who you don't already follow, direct messages, and then reels. Those are like the top three things that are…
  • Palestinian — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Me is that I recently launched this like volunteer project called Fourpiece Media. So I'm Palestinian 100%. And I've got this like business brand and I was really passionate…
  • attract, nurture, convert framework — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Think it makes more sense to talk about your content framework as a whole. And you teach the attract, nurture, convert framework. Can you go over that framework and then let's dig deep on conversion?
  • conversion content — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Itching. They're they're asking for the weight list link. and then of course there's the actual conversion content, which is what gets people onto your email list or into your…
  • STD story formula — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Next, use the STD story formula when launching something important. Post a single story for 24 hours. Don't post anything else. Make it textheavy instead of a talking head video and.
  • Enneagram 2 — Concept · 1 mention
  • interest-based algorithms — Concept · 1 mention
  • NIL — Concept · 1 mention
  • retargeting — Concept · 1 mention

Sponsors

Full transcript with timestamps

The less time that you can spend between when this idea first pops into your head and the actual post being posted, the better. The more time you spend editing, refining, thinking, critiquing, overanalyzing, you're just getting layers and layers away from that original idea. And I think that there's something in the subconscious of the audience that can perceive that.

Today, we've got a guest who has cracked the code on Instagram growth, Brock Johnson. Brock is an entrepreneur, Instagram growth coach, and co-host of the top marketing podcast, Build Your Tribe.

My most viral posts are often the super relatable, simple, funny, easy to understand content. It's never the content that I worked the hardest on. I was most excited about. It's never those. It's always the stuff that I just like whip up and post. Authenticity is this buzzword that everyone throws around nowadays. Um, and then when you ask, "How do you be authentic?" Usually the response is be yourself. Okay, great. That's like the worst advice of all time. How do you be authentic on social media? I think that you strategically eliminate

and I know that you actually interviewed head of Instagram. Yeah, Adam Moseri. Talk to us about what you learned about the Instagram algorithm and maybe what you know about some of the shifts that Instagram is taking as a whole. I would say the biggest takeaway that I learned if I had to summarize everything into one sentence, it would be,

"What's up, young and profiters? Today, we've got a guest who has cracked the code on Instagram growth, Brock Johnson." Brock is an entrepreneur, Instagram growth coach, and co-host of the top marketing podcast, Build Your Tribe. He's grown on Instagram by nearly a million followers, co-founded Insta Club with over 50,000 paying members, and even consults directly with Meta on Instagram's features. In this episode, Brock is going to break down how to grow and monetize on Instagram in 2025. He shares how the algorithm really works, the types of posts that go viral, and how to turn followers into loyal paying customers. If you've been struggling to grow on social media, this conversation is your road map. But before we get into it, if you're new here, make sure you subscribe or follow so you never miss an episode like this one. Brock, welcome to Young and Profiting Podcast.

I'm super excited to be here. Thanks for having me. I am so pumped for this conversation. I've been following you on social media for so many years now. I've had my team take your courses and things like that and so huge fan of your work. Uh just really excited to go deep on Instagram and the Instagram algorithm today. So, just thank you so much for your time. My first question to you, because you've accumulated over 800,000 followers on Instagram. You've got your Insta Club hub courses and things like that. And you've even like consulted with Meta and and have supported them on their new features and things like that. So, talk to us about what you do today in your own words in case some folks are not familiar with your work and also why Instagram is still a huge opportunity in 2025. Absolutely. Yeah, great questions.

To start with, I would say what I tell my neighbors, uh, what I tell people who who have never met me, what I do before, um, is I help brands, small business owners, and creators grow organically on Instagram. So, basically, I help them turn their Instagram into a way that they can get more customers, more eyeballs, and more sales for their business. I think followers are great and I can definitely help people go viral and get views, but at the end of the day, I really want to help people turn their posts into profit. Um, and so that's what I geek out over. That's what I spend all of my time doing. Um, I've been really, really lucky to build an awesome team over the, you know, last almost decade that I've been doing this for a living. Um, and I've gotten some really cool opportunities like getting to interview the head of Instagram and speak on stages all over the world. So, I'm really blessed to be in the position

that I'm in. But, I obsess over this stuff. I geek out over it. And really everything that I do is very data driven. So I love looking at the actual numbers, finding all the stats and studies that I possibly can. Uh because I think that the average business owner, even the average creator, doesn't want to spend hours a day on Instagram. They want to be able to get in, get out, see results, see growth, and not have to spend 17 hours a day as a slave to the Instagram algorithm. So uh that's my focus and that's what I'm doing all with all my time. And [clears throat] a lot of people, you know, say that Instagram is dead. You know, they they say that there's there's no more opportunity. You can't get organic reach on Instagram anymore. Uh tell us why that's wrong.

[clears throat] Yeah, that's that's absolutely incorrect. I understand that it feels that way. And so I don't want to gaslight anyone and say that they're wrong for feeling that way. I understand why it feels that way because on one hand, it is tougher than ever before to get views. And it's not because the Instagram algorithm is out to get us. It's not because they want us to pay for advertising. It's simple supply demand. As as plainly as you can imagine it, a recent study was just put out that showed that uh there were 34% more reels posted this year in 2025 than there were in 2024. So 34% more reels. But there are also numerous studies that are showing that we're not spending more time per day on social media. In fact, the average time spent per day on social media and on Instagram peaked in like 2022 and it's kind of been slowly going down just a little bit since then. So, supply demand, the supply is way up and

the demand is either plateaued or slightly decreased in many cases. But with all that being said, there is absolutely still organic reach to go around. And I can say that because we have over we've had over 40,000 people take our Insta Club hub, which is like our membership where we coach people on how to grow on Instagram. And we recently completed an internal analysis of their data and found that our average club member is growing by almost 16,000 followers in their first year. So, it's absolutely still possible. Like, it's definitely still doable. There are still people going viral and growing. It's just not as easy as it was in 2021 or 2022. Um, and it's it has a lot to do with what's called the Tik Tockification of social media and really a change from social media to now what we're in, which is interest media. It doesn't matter as much today how many followers you have.

Yes, followers do matter to a certain extent, but they matter a lot less today in 2025 and heading into 2026 than they did a few years ago.

Totally. I had Gary Vee on the show and he talked about the Tik Tokation of social media and back in the day when there was, you know, early LinkedIn, early Instagram, it was all about how many followers you had and that dictated your actual distribution and it was all based on how many followers you accumulated and it was kind of like the rich got richer on social media. Yeah. But now you can have zero followers and literally go viral with these interestbased algorithms. So, new creators are like really lucky because as long as you have really great content, it's engaging, people share it, you can go viral even if you haven't really accumulated a lot of followers so far.

Yeah, absolutely. What I like to say is another way to think about it is the playing field has never been more level, which is a very exciting thing. Like you, it's not just the rich get richer. In many cases, my DMs are now filled with people who have hundreds of thousands or millions of followers who are like, "What the heck is going on?" So, it's not just you automatically get views because you have followers. So, the playing field is more level, but that also means that the playing field is very crowded, right? Whether you have 300 followers or 300,000 followers, we're all on a level playing field. So, we're all fighting for the same attention. So, there there's definitely pros and cons, but I think it's 1,000% still possible. And there was a recent study put out by Carrot Financial, which is a financial institution that looks at the average uh customer value per follower or like per how how many

followers you have on each platform, Instagram, Tik Tok, YouTube, whatever, how much money are you realistically making from one follower. And they found that Instagram was by far the the highest uh amount per per follower. Uh they found it was I believe seven times higher than YouTube, 11 times higher than Tik Tok. We can get into why I believe that is. But not only is it still possible to grow on Instagram, it's definitely still possible. And I would say it's probably still the best place to convert followers into customers.

I definitely want to ask you that question, but let's put a pin in it. I want to go super deep on Instagram, but first I want my listeners to know a little bit more about you. So I learned that your mom was really big in the business space. You've partnered with your mom with your podcast and different uh business endeavors that you're doing. Talk to us about what it was like to actually grow up with somebody who was a business influencer and how that shaped your entrepreneurial spirit.

A thousand%. Yeah. I uh I come from a very entrepreneurial family. I feel very lucky that a lot of people had to convince their parents that uh you know they could pursue this entrepreneurship thing and and not go to college or or drop out of college or not do the traditional 9 toive route. My parents from day one were like, "Hey, don't, you know, don't go to college unless you have to. Uh, don't do the nineto-ive route. Like, don't work corporate. Start your own business." Um, but growing up, it was very monkey see monkey do. So, my parents have owned dozens of businesses throughout my life and in a wide variety of of verticals, fitness businesses, certification businesses, apparel businesses. Um, and so growing up, we weren't like sitting around the dinner table talking about KPIs and revenue goals, but we were uh able to to watch.

My sister and I were both able to just soak up a lot of lessons from my parents and see the the pros and the cons of what it's like to own your own business. Uh but yeah, my mom's like an OG in the like business influencer space. Uh she had hundreds of thousands of Instagram followers before anyone knew what an Instagram influencer even was. And so it was definitely a a unique way to to grow up with a mom who was in the spotlight and who was on social media and who owned these businesses. But I'm so lucky because I was able to learn through uh through her and through watching her and just so much uh growing up in the family that I did.

But you uh didn't really plan on becoming a business influencer as well. You thought you were going to become an NFL player. That was the goal.

So what happened? Yeah. So what happened there? And uh you know, what kind of identity shifts did you go through? and and how did you find like fulfillment and happiness even though you didn't end up doing what you planned on doing as a child?

Yeah, this is such a great question and and I appreciate uh how much research you've done. It was my goal, it was my dream to play in the NFL. Uh I definitely was raised in an entrepreneurial family, but even more than that, I was raised in a football family. My grandpa is the uh winningest head football coach in Southern California high school football history, which if anyone knows Southern California high school football, it's pretty legit. Um, and so he he has always been a big name. My uncle played in the NFL. My dad played professional football. Um, and so I was raised uh not talking about business at the dinner table, but talking about football at the dinner table. Um, and so I was very fortunate to have a great football career. I got to play college football, but that was really where my career ended. I didn't play very much in college. I wasn't uh I wasn't skilled enough to to play in the NFL. I wasn't

big enough, fast enough, strong enough, whatever. Um and in addition to that, my senior season uh never actually happened because it was the COVID year. Um and so I decided to retire. I had graduated college at that point. And so I kind of had this option of do I come back and do the grad school thing for my one last year or do I kind of get my life started, so to speak? and and I decided to retire from football at that point. Um, but like you said, I never thought I would be an influencer. I never thought I'd be a business coach. It was something that I started because of football, my freshman year of football.

Um, uh, I was going to school across the country, uh, east coast, west coast sort of thing. And I, I couldn't work a normal 9 to5 because as as a student athlete, you just don't have the time to. Um, and so I knew that entrepreneurship was going to be my only way to be able to financially separate from my parents and to become my own person and to be able to provide for myself. And so back then, I created my original first real business, which was helping moms keep their teens safe on Snapchat. It was like an online course uh community helping helping moms back in I think it was 2016 that was. Um, so that was my first real venture into business for myself. And this was before the days of NIL. So as a student athlete at that time, I couldn't make money off of endorsements and my likeness. I had to create something that that was going to be sold. And so that's what I did uh way back then. And the business has very

much grown. Obviously, it's evolved. I'm not doing Snapchat snitching anymore. But uh there was definitely a lot of identity shifts that had to take place. There was a lot of growing pains, you know, throughout my college experience as it started to become more clear that my future was going to be in business and not in the NFL. It's so interesting how, you know, success isn't really a straight line, right? There's multiple avenues to success. And even me, like, you know, growing up, I thought I was going to be a famous singer. Like, that was my goal. I was so good at singing my whole life. And then I realized in college when I really tried that, like I'm not I'm not a good enough dancer.

Like, you know, I need to also be like a great dancer to become a famous singer. But now, you know, I have a a company that's near eight figures annually. I I have a top podcast and the same things that I was kind of hoping to have with a singing career, I've kind of accomplished with a totally different career and still been able to, you know, fulfill those desires that I have. Do you feel like your desires have been fulfilled on like the same things that you wanted out of a football career? Do you feel like you're getting that from doing your Instagram coaching and things like that?

Yeah, you know, I I do. I do. find joy is kind of like my life's leading principle and I absolutely feel like I've found joy in what I'm currently doing. I love helping people. Um I don't know if if you're familiar or if any of your listeners are familiar with the enog, but I remember in college I learned that I'm an enagram 2 and the two is the helper and I was like yeah that's like that's me. I I I just want to help people. Um and I think as entrepreneurs we are paid problem solvers. We're paid helpers. Um and so I I really love what I get to do now. I get to interact with a lot of people. I get to coach and help and connect with people all over the world. And so it's it is very fulfilling for me. Um and I remember when I had the the shift in my mindset. For me, it took place when I was in a literal therapy session when that shift of like, okay, hey, maybe I'm not going to be an NFL quarterback.

Maybe there are other options and maybe those can be fulfilling too and maybe that can be okay. So I wonder for you, was there like a specific moment when that shift took place or was it kind of just organic over time? Like when did you know, hey, maybe singing isn't going to be the thing, but maybe business and podcasting and these other things might be for me?

Hey young and profiters, as an entrepreneur, I know firsthand that getting a huge expense off your books is the best feeling. It gives you peace of mind and lets you focus on the big picture and invest in other things that move your business forward. Now, imagine if you never had to pay for business internet again. Imagine that business internet was something that you literally got for free for the rest of your life. You don't have to imagine anymore because that's exactly what Spectrum Business is doing. They get that if you aren't connected, you can't make transactions. You can't talk to clients. You can't run your business.

And they support all types of businesses from restaurants to dry cleaners to content creators like me and everybody in between. Offering internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, and mobile services. For my business owning friends out there, if you want a reliable connection with no contracts and no added fees, pay attention. Spectrum Business is offering free business internet advantage forever when you simply add four or more mobile lines. Seriously, free internet forever. You never have to pay for it again. This isn't just a deal. It's a smart way to cut your monthly overhead and stay connected. You should definitely take advantage of this today. Visit spectrum.com/freeforlife to learn how you can get business internet free forever. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. What's up, yap gang? So, I recently moved from Jersey City to Austin, and something I've been noticing

is the style out here is totally different. And it made me look at my closet and go, "Okay, Holla, it's time for an upgrade." And the place that never lets me down is Revolve. And I just did a big fall pant haul, and I'm absolutely obsessed. I got so many new pants, and I totally fit that cool girl Austin vibe now. And the quality of Revolve is so good. Plus, they get new arrivals every single day. And they've got inclusive sizing from extra extra small to 4X. And since it's that time of the year, you've got to check out the Revolve Holiday Shop. They've got sparkly dresses, cozy sets, and the cutest gifts and every holiday look that you'll need curated in one place. And for all of you young and profiting men out there, they also have men's clothing. And I'm definitely upgrading my man's wardrobe this winter. He's getting all clothes for Christmas.

Whether it's a weekend away or a night out or a holiday party, your dream wardrobe is just one click away at revolve.com/profiting. Shop myit and take 15% off your first order with code profiting. Fast 2-day shipping, easy returns. It's literally the only place you need to shop from. That's revolve.com/profiting to shop my favorites and get 15% off your first order with code profiting. That's profiting all uppercase. Offer available for a limited time. So, happy shopping. It was me interning at Hot 97, which is one of the most famous radio stations in the world. I was Angie Martinez's assistant for three years. And I saw her having such an awesome career using her voice to impact people. And at the same time, I was trying to push my music and things like this. And I was like, you know what? Like, I could see myself being the next Angie Martinez and being really happy and maybe even happier

doing something more like that. And so it was just, you know, seeing somebody else doing a career I had never even thought about and and kind of following in their footsteps. Um, so Brock, I know from my research that it took you almost 9 years to first go viral. Now that's a lot of consistency. Is that right, by the way? Is that is that right? About nine years before your first post went

approximately. Yeah. Like it depends on when you technically say I started creating content. You could go back to my old YouTube videos when I was, you know, like 12 and then you might say it was 15 years till I went viral. But yeah, I would say

a very long time. Yeah. Long time. A even though you had a famous mom, right? Your mom was already famous on Instagram.

So talk to us about that consistency and um you know what it really taught you because it took you a while before you started getting traction. What did it teach you about consistency and what can you tell other people who are creating content in terms of, you know, consistency and putting in their reps?

Absolutely. I love that you use putting in their reps because I view consistency on social media as practice. I view it as an opportunity to get better, an opportunity to refine my skills, an opportunity uh to reach new people. I think a lot of entrepreneurs and creators view each post as like an end all beall, a representation of who they are in their deeper self. and it's got to be perfect and polished and like if it isn't wellreceived that's a reflection of them and their worth and for me it's it's just like another practice and I think that comes from my background in sports where in sports you know you you spend 99% of your time if not more practicing in the weight room on the field on the court you're only spending a very very minute small amount of time actually playing the game in front of the crowd with people watching um and so that's very much how I approach social media a few years ago uh

one of my good friends who's also in this Instagram coaching space. Uh, marketing Harry is his his username. He said that my superpower is hyperconsistency and I loved that term and I really have um embraced that and continued using that since he said that. But that that's really it. Like I I think that the way I'm going to win is I'm not going to be more creative than other people in my industry. I'm not going to be more uh a better editor. I'm not going to be better looking. I'm not going to be funnier. Like all of those things I am not. But what I can control is my output. What I can control is my consistency. And so I ain't going to go anywhere. I'm going to keep showing up um and just keep doing it day in and day out. And sure, over time I'll slowly get better and better and better. But my staying power is really why I think I've been able to be successful in this business.

Something when I first started in this world, I focused on LinkedIn and I'm actually one of the biggest LinkedIn influencers. And I I didn't post on Instagram for like years, like three years. And all I did is every day posted on LinkedIn, really focused on LinkedIn, learned how to hack that algorithm and became like a top voice on that platform. Do you recommend that people really just focus on one platform before they go and try to experiment on other platforms or what's your opinion on that? You know, I do I think that the way you did it is is what most business owners, most content creators should do is go all in on one platform. And sure, if you're like making short form videos, you might as well also post them on Tik Tok and YouTube shorts. Maybe you'll pick up traction there. But put your energy and your focus into one platform primarily so that you can really master that platform. Otherwise, you're just

going to be spinning plates and trying to keep up with each individual algorithm, and it's probably not going to be effective. So go maybe not allin but almost all in on one platform um and then just have your content repurposed onto the other platforms and then once you get that one platform successful and rolling then you can start to reinvest or you can start to dabble in those other platforms and and bring those up as well. Something that I feel is that video, especially right now, is really like the heart of the creator economy, right? So like vertical videos, reals that go on Tik Tok, that go on shorts, that's really the heart of everything right now in terms of like what's going viral, what's working. And you already mentioned the Tik Tockification of social media, how, you know, things are able to go viral and things like that.

Um, and I know that you actually interviewed um was it the CEO of Meta? Mhm. The the head of Instagram. Yeah. Adam Moseri.

I always see him on in. He's always posting on like the actual Instagram account right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh talk to us about what you learned about the Instagram algorithm and maybe what you know about some of the shifts that Instagram is taking as a whole.

I would say the biggest takeaway that I learned if I had to summarize everything into one sentence, it would be everyone just chill out. One of the biggest things that came out of that interview was I would ask him what about this hack? What about this strategy? What about this thing? What about this myth? And almost every time he would say, "No, that doesn't really matter." Or he would start laughing at me and be like, "How did someone come up with this?" Um, and so there's so many things that I think we can get bogged down by. And I think the average creator and business owner feels like, "Oh my gosh, how can I keep up with Instagram? It's changing every day. There's a million things I have to do." When in reality, a lot of those things you have to do are just random ideas that were come up by some random person who is now telling you that you have to do this. and those go viral because it sounds like a new hack, a new

strategy, but it's not really going to be that effective. There was so much that we talked about in the interview. Um, that was really eye opening for a lot of people that they no longer have to worry about. They no longer have to think or care about. Um, and so I I think that that those were some big takeaways. The biggest things that were changing that were coming were things that we actually talked about off air. There was not too many things that he could disclose on air, but he did show me quite a few updates that are coming soon to uh the edits app, which is like Instagram's version of Cap Cut. It's Instagram's editing app. Um, and some new layout changes. So, they've uh they at Instagram have figured out that the three biggest drivers of their growth have been recommendations. So, like you seeing a post from someone who you don't already follow, direct messages, and then reels. Those are like the top three

things that are driving their growth, which they're now over 300 uh or excuse me, three billion users across the world every month, which is insane. Um, and so they're kind of planning very soon to reorganize the layout of the app to make it easier for us to get into direct messages, get into recommendations, or get into the reels tab. Um, because they basically say, if that's what's driving our growth, let's reorganize the layout of our app uh to make those things more front and center.

Okay. Okay, I feel like this is a perfect time to play a little game. It's [clears throat] called growth or ghost.

Okay, so I'm going to give you a list of things that people often like think is going to work on Instagram and you're going to rate them one through 10. One being not very good, 10 being a very good strategy. Okay. First, using trending audio,

I'd say six and a half. Six and a half. Why do you think so? So So it does kind of work then. It does kind of work, but it's not really like a make or break. I think most people think it's like a nine or 10, and I think it's more like a six and a half. Like, it could kind of work. Maybe we can even call it like a four and a half if if the five is the dividing middle line. We'll call it a four and a half.

I agree. Cuz I feel like a lot of the trending audio stuff, people use it as like a trick like, oh, like, and it's like they'll use it even if they're not following the trend the audio has to do with. And then you it's kind of like click it's kind of like putting like a really clickbay thumbnail that has nothing to do with the video. That's how I think of it.

And they spend so much time like looking for a trending audio and searching for a trending audio. And it was like I always say just use that time to make the content better, not to find the perfect Taylor Swift song to go with it.

Posting trial reels to reach nonfollowers. I'll say eight and a half. I would have said 10 uh a few months ago, but Instagram like I I've been the biggest proponent of trial reels since day one telling people like spam and abuse those things because Instagram gave us a gold mine and they're going to take it away eventually once they figure out how we're actually using it. And they have they've limited or put a cap on a lot of accounts in terms of how many trial reels you can post. But I still think that even if the cap is as low as five a day, posting five trial reels a day is an excellent way to reach new people.

Boosting your content with paid ads. That one is actually an eight. Um if if you have great content, turning it into an ad, excellent. If you have average or below average content, boosting it so that more people see it, absolute waste of money. That might as well be a zero because if it's already bad content, why are you paying for more people to see your bad content? Um I would say there's definitely a distinction between advertising and boosting. I'm a big fan of ads. I'm not the biggest fan of boosting.

Leaning into carousels. Yeah. Okay. Nine. Nine. Carousels. Massive. Super underrated. Like I said earlier, there have been 34% more reels posted this year, but there are less carousels being posted. And yet, the average carousel engagement rate has gone up. The average carousel view rate has gone up. It's like, hey, suddenly everyone forgot about carousels. And so, posting carousels and pro tip, adding music to them, game changer.

Music to your carousels. I never heard of that. Hashtags, uh, one, uh, very overrated, not a reliable way to grow on Instagram. Um, that was like one of the biggest aha moments. I've been saying that for years. And actually, Adam Ozeri, the head of Instagram, has also been saying that for years, but when he said it in our interview, it again kind of made people like go crazy like, "Oh my god, what hashtags? What?" I think that if you have like a local business, like a local nail salon or a farm pumpkin patch that you want people to visit, then sure, using local hashtags can help with searchability and discoverability, but for most creators who are not just trying to build a following within their local city or county, uh they're not really going to be very effective. This is one that I always see like reals about and I'm always like sending it to my team, but I don't know if they do it like changing settings like location or

categories in your post or reels to get more visibility. One like that's that's that's the new wave of like growth hacks is like turn on these seven settings on your profile and like the settings are usually like HD videos. Like we already have those things turned on automatically and it's just no it's overrated.

Okay. posting at certain optimal times of the day. Three, I think that there are definitely better times and worse times, but if you're trying to build a global audience, then why are you not posting for 23 hours out of the day? I think that uh a lot of people can get really bogged down with trying to find like the perfect time or the perfect day. Who gives a Like, it's it's like if you're exercising, and I'm a 28-year-old male. What I'm about to say is made up. Maybe uh my testosterone peaks at 400 p.m. And so theoretically, I'm supposed to do my lifting workouts at 4 in the afternoon. I shouldn't skip my workout for the day just because I'm busy at 4 p.m. I shouldn't be like, "Oh, well, today's workout isn't going to be optimal, so I'm not posting or I'm not working out. Excuse me." Uh but I think that's how a lot of people approach posting. It's like, "Oh, I missed my perfect window, so I'm going to wait

till tomorrow." No, post it. And then you never know if you're going to reach people. You never know if you're going to go viral. You never know if you're going to reach an audience that's on at a different time. So, I think it's mostly overrated.

Such uh great advice. Thank you for playing growth or ghost. So, what is actually working? Like what are your top strategies in terms of what people should really lean into to go viral on Instagram?

Yeah, absolutely. I think if I were to really distill it and make it super simple, the way that you grow on Instagram is you post a lot of good content. You post a high quantity of highquality content. And it's got to be both. Like ideally if you want maximum growth, it's a hyperconsistency of really good posts. With that being said, the best uh way to get more views, the best way to create good posts is to create shareworthy posts. And shareworthy posts are simply the posts that are worthy of being sent from one person to another or from one person to a group chat or one person to their stories. Those sorts of shareworthy posts um are the ones that go viral and they're the ones that go viral the right way, so to speak. They're the ones that go viral with targeted viewers. Hey, I got 50,000 viewers, but I also got 2,000 followers from this and I got 100 new customers because it was all being sent

from one ideal viewer to another. So, shareworthy content is uh really the best. Shares are disproportionately the best form of engagement on Instagram.

That also goes for LinkedIn, too. like things that go that get a lot of shares go viral. A lot of people think likes and comments are what matters and they hyperfocus on the amount of likes, the amount of comments. They get like bots for comments and things like that. Um shares is something that I think you can't like fake also, you know, you can't really fake shares.

Yeah, you can't. It's I mean I'm sure there's some service out there that is going to hear you saying that and jump on that opportunity and try to do bot shares but no you can't right it's a humanto human interaction and you know if I think about like while we're talking I bet you my wife is sharing and sending reels and Tik Toks my way. I bet I'll have a bunch to watch when we're done with this conversation. Um I'm the ideal viewer right? It's not an algorithm guessing oh hey maybe Brock would be interested in this content. My wife knows exactly what kinds of posts I want to or need to see. Um, and so like I'm the perfect viewer for any post that is shared with me. And that's another reason why shares are so powerful.

Yap gang, here's the truth. In business, cash flow isn't just numbers on a spreadsheet. It's the fuel behind every smart move that you make. Cash flow powers your business. At Yap Media, we've trusted Inuit products for years now. And I can tell you that in it I QuickBooks is essential when it comes to our cash flow and ensuring that we have strong cash flow. They have powerful money tools that are built right into the platform that help you get paid faster and pay your bills smarter. With QuickBooks Money Solutions, you can say goodbye to manual bill entry and reduce manual work by half. No more juggling passwords and nine different spreadsheets. QuickBooks does it all for you. QuickBooks money tools bring your money and your books together in one platform with real-time insights into your cash flow. I'm logging on to QuickBooks every day to check the health of my business. With QuickBooks, we know

what's coming in, what's going out, and when to act. To transform your cash flow and your business, check out QuickBooks money tools today. Learn more at quickbooks.com/money. Again, that's quickbooks.com/money. Terms apply. Money movement services are provided by Intu IT Payments Incorporated, licensed as a money transmitter by the New York State Department of Financial Services. Hey y gang, as a CEO, I'm always looking for ways to streamline our creative output at YAP. I need one place to handle everything, not just our website, but the entire look and feel of our brand.

When I first heard about Framer, I thought, "Oh, just another website builder." But I was totally wrong. And I love being wrong when the alternative is this good. Framer already built the fastest way to publish beautiful productionready websites and it's now redefining how we design for the web. With the recent launch of design pages, a free canvas-based design tool, Framer is more than a site builder. It's a true all-in-one design platform. From social assets to campaign visuals to vectors and icons, all the way to a live site.

Framer is where ideas go live start to finish. Ready to design, iterate, and publish allin-one tool? Start creating for free at framer.com/design and use code profiting for a free month of Framer Pro. That's framer.com/design and use promo code profiting. Again, that's framer.com/design. Promo code profiting. Rules and restrictions apply. Walk us through your most viral posts and why you think they were shared so much.

Interesting. I think my most viral posts are often uh the super relatable, simple, funny, easy to understand content. It's never the content that I worked the hardest on. It's never the content that I was most excited about. It's never the content that I had a great idea for, that I spent a bunch of hours editing, or that I had uh like spent the most money on, which I rarely spend money on my content creation, but it's never those. It's always the stuff that I just like whip up and post. I post without thinking. I post without overediting. And I think the reason why that is is the more time you spend editing and refining and planning and thinking about your content, the less authentic it becomes. Authenticity is this buzzword that everyone throws around nowadays. Um, and then when you ask how do you be authentic? Usually the response is be yourself. Okay, great.

That's like the worst advice of all time. How do you be authentic on social media? I think that you strategically eliminate the time between idea and post. The less time that you can spend between when this idea first pops into your head or this inspiration first strikes and the actual post being posted, the better. The more time you spend editing, refining, thinking, uh, critiquing, overanalyzing, you're just getting layers and layers away from that original idea and who you really are and what you really thought, what was really inspiring for you. Um, and I think that there's something in the subconscious of the audience that can perceive that.

Something that was really eyeopening for me is that I recently launched this like volunteer project called Fourpiece Media. So I'm Palestinian 100%. And I've got this like business brand and I was really passionate about that topic, but I was like it just doesn't feel like it's right for my brand. So I want to start a new like social media page just for that and I'll keep posting my business content and things on my own page. Now, I'm a bigger LinkedIn influencer than I've never been like huge on Instagram, but I've been really trying like trying to go viral, trying to like grow my page. And then I started this fourpiece media page and with like 200 followers, the first post went viral, got like 100k views. And then, you know, all my posts are going super viral on that page. And I'm I'm I'm thinking, man, like it's really all about the topic, right? And like you really have to be realistic in terms of

your niche and your cap for going viral or or the sharability of something like a an entrepreneurship podcast versus the sharability of like a topic that people are so passionate about and like obsessed with, right? So what are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I mean I think that's absolutely the case. That's how social media has become interest media. You know, I'll give you an example. I I'm a Lakers fan. I'm a lifelong Lakers fan and I follow the Lakers on Instagram, but during the off season, I don't think I see a single Lakers post. Like unless there's a super hilarious moment with LeBron or like something that's like going viral, I'm not going to see a single Lakers post. They're posting probably every day, multiple times a day. I don't know cuz I don't see it. But I don't see it because I've been signaling to the algorithm all off season that I'm not interested in basketball right now. I'm interested in other sports. I'm interested in other things. And so I ain't seeing the Lakers post. But then when the season starts and suddenly I start being interested in basketball again, I start watching basketball content more, I start searching out basketball terms more,

well then all of a sudden the Lakers who I've followed this whole time, their post starts showing up in my feed again. And so that's really why, you know, like we've been both saying, followers matter so much less and creating content that people are actually going to be interested in matters more. And that's also why consistency matters because there are people who are still interested in basketball and the Lakers during the offseason and so those people are still going to be seeing those posts. It's just the fringe people like myself who aren't invested in basketball in, you know, the middle of the offseason, you know, we won't be seeing those posts.

Something else that I think is important for creators to understand is that it's a long game and it takes a long time to kind of build your followers and those overnight successes are really rare. And often on social media, you'll compare yourself to somebody who has like, you know, 2 million followers, 3 million followers, whatever it is, and you might still have like 3,000 followers even though you've been posting for a year or two years or something like that. So, it reminds me of something that Benjamin Hardy taught me about the gap and the gain. Uh, the gap is where you're always comparing yourself to where you want to be or like comparing yourself to somebody else. And h practicing gain thinking is actually being thankful and realizing like how far you've come. you went from zero to 3,000 followers.

That's still a lot of growth and like you can't compare yourself to other people. You should just compare yourself to where you actually started. Now with you, you're huge on Instagram. You got 800,000 followers, but there's like only fans girls that have 10 million followers, right? And you could if you wanted to feel bad that like you haven't hit a million followers or something like that. So, do you ever deal with, you know, being in a gap mindset and how do you snap yourself out of it? Yeah, I think this is such a great question and I totally agree and I think that no person listening to this will ever reach a level of followers that feels like enough if they don't feel like their current level of followers is enough.

Yes, sure. Strive for more, create good content, reach more people, grow your business. Yeah, absolutely. I'm I love all those things. But I also believe that if you can't be content with what you've achieved so far, if you can't be proud of how far you've come, then you're never going to reach that level where you are proud of where you're at because there's always going to be someone with more followers out there, right? There's always going to be that next level. Even think about like the biggest creators in the world. Think about like Mr. Beast. I guarantee you there are still people who he's like, "I don't have that sort of distribution. I don't have that many views." or I bet he's looking at like, oh, I got this many views on this video, but this one a few months ago got more. That comparison game is so problematic. And so, I think that I really try my hardest to stay away from it, but we're all human. And

so, from time to time, I'll catch myself getting jealous of someone else's growth or someone else's views. What I do strategically when that happening is uh I bring myself back to reality cuz like this this little black box that our phone is is so problematic. And so if you can just bring yourself back to like literal present day, set your phone down, it's helpful. I think also unfollowing anyone who consistently makes you feel that way. Whether it's you just can't stop yourself from comparing yourself to them or something in their content is fueling that comparison. Maybe there's some way they're speaking or something that they're always talking about. They're always stroking their own ego and it's just it fuels that comparison in you.

mute them or unfollow them or heck, block them if they're just showing up in your recommended posts all the time. Um, so that you don't fall victim to that game. And then make sure that you are surrounding yourself by people. And this is my personal opinion, surrounding yourself by people and by content creators and podcasts that don't preach hustle culture. Because I think, you know, we're all familiar with you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. Well, nowadays, think about how many of us are spending the most time with a three-hour podcast on the way to work or with uh, you know, a a long YouTube video when we're at the gym. Those content creators and those influencers who were binging their content and spending hours with it every week, a lot of them were spending more time with their posts than our friends and family. And we need to recognize that they are influencing us just as

much, if not more. And if what they're spewing out is hustle culture, toxic uh work environments, you know, uh become a slave to your work, burn the midnight oil, neglect your your all your priorities in life, and just focus on grinding and hustling and more money and more, etc., whatever. I think that's really unhealthy. Um, and so I think that that's something that not everyone would agree with. I know that there's lots of people who have great success with hustle culture and make a lot of money. Um, but that's just not me.

That's so eyeopening to think about like that that phrase that your accumulation of the five people that you spend the most time with. It's so true. You know, if you listen to a lot of podcasts or if you if you're like, you know, obsessed with certain influencers, those people are, you know, influencing you in terms of like how you think and approach the world. So, you've got all these students, like thousands of students that have taken your courses and not everybody is this like, you know, mega influencer. Some people might have 20,000 followers, 50,000 followers.

talk to us about the ability to actually monetize your account without having hundreds of thousands of followers. Like what have you seen from your students?

It all comes back to trust. Um, and that's the really cool thing about the smaller accounts is the less followers you have, that can be your superpower because now if you only have, let's say, 150 followers, it is realistic that you could maybe not memorize all of their names, but you could get to know almost all of them on a personal level and have conversations with them and that's going to build trust. Um, I had a woman on my podcast who was one of our students a few months ago who had I think it was a $30,000 launch and then a few months later another 30 or $40,000 launch with less than a,000 followers. And that's because even though she had like 900 something followers, she had really built trust with all of them and she had built this connection and this intimacy where they felt like they know her, they knew her values, they went along the journey with her to create her product.

And so when it was time to launch and to to make sales, they didn't have to be sold. They didn't have to jump on a sales call. They knew her. They knew the product and they were like begging to get on a wait list and pull out their credit card. Um, and so I think that again, you know, there can be a real a real blessing in disguise when you don't have a ton of followers. And you can use that to your opportunity. Like, I genuinely wish I could spend more time each day DMing my followers and having those one-on-one conversations because I missed the the good old days when I only had a couple thousand followers and I knew them all by name and I knew intimately what each of them was struggling with. Uh so now, you know, there's pros and cons to to growing your following, but there's definitely strengths that are hidden when you have a smaller following.

I can definitely relate to that. Uh, it's it's so nice to be able to actually talk to people one-on-one. And especially when you're growing, it's so important to be the person that's actually DMing with people and trying to understand. It makes you such a better creator.

Yeah. As you grow because like you you're familiar with what people want and how your team should actually engage with people when they're doing it on your behalf as you grow. So, you have a lot of revenue streams. That's the beauty of, you know, being a creator entrepreneur. you know, you've got courses, you're monetizing, I'm assuming, with brand partnerships and things like that. So, talk to us about all the different ways you get to monetize as a creator, entrepreneur, and then I want to talk to you about your funnels.

Yeah, absolutely. So, I think I I I haven't gone through this list recently, but uh between my wife and I, and we work together, she's my CFO. She is such a blessing for me. She's super organized, type A, and keeps keeps our life running. Uh because yeah, I'm the type of guy who forgets his laptop on the plane. and I've done that multiple times this year. Um, horribly disorganized. I digress. I think we have like seven or eight different revenue streams. Brand partnerships is definitely one of them. So, I partner with a lot of different uh brands and and collaborate on, you know, advertisements and sponsored posts, that sort of thing. Public speaking is another one. I'm uh I love public speaking. Um, there's ad revenue that comes from like our YouTube channel and Instagram reels and things like that.

There is the actual membership business which I think represents the uh second biggest percentage of our annual revenue which is uh a monthly reoccurring uh business model. Um investments is absolutely huge for us. My wife and I try to invest every single penny that we can. Um so our investments both in like the stock market and in just brands that we that we love. if we find a business that I've been partnering with for a few years and maybe they're not a publicly traded company, but there's a way for us to invest in them. Um, we we always try to find a way to do that if we can. Um, I'm trying to think of other, you know, courses, individual like coaching, random digital products here and there.

Um, I'm sure I'm forgetting some revenue streams, but those are the big ones. Being a creator entrepreneur is so cool because you can kind of like turn off and on revenue streams as you want. Like for example, like I want more cash. This I'm just like I want more. I have like, you know, a social media agency. I have a podcast network. I have courses. And I'm like, you know what? I just feel like having more cash for growth. Like I'm just going to launch a podcast course cuz I know I'm just going to make a whole bunch of cash just doing that and not have a lot of expenses. So being a creator entrepreneur is so cool in that way because there's no ceiling and you can kind of just decide what you want to do based on your needs and um you know what's hot right now. So, I want to go over your funnel, but first I think it makes more sense to talk about your content framework as a whole. And you teach the attract, nurture, convert

framework. Can you go over that framework and then let's dig deep on conversion?

Yeah, absolutely. I think that often times business owners kind of fall into this trap of like wanting their content to do everything at once. attract people to their page, get eyeballs, nurture their followers, like bring them along, teach them what what you do, build that trust, and then also convert and make the sale all in one post. That's super challenging. Like, I I I can't name more than a couple of posts that I've ever made, and I'm making hundreds of posts a month that have done all three. Like, it's damn near impossible to do all three. It's more of a luck than a strategy thing. So really just first and foremost identifying that there are different posts for different goals and you should align your percentages or or how much you're posting different kinds of content based off your season. Like you said, if you're in a season where you really want to dial up followers and you need more eyeballs because you're

about to launch something, well then maybe in the season leading up to the launch, you're going to focus more heavily on the attraction content so you can get more followers and and and energy onto your page. Or maybe you're like, "Hey, I've got 30,000 followers. I know I have a launch that I want to do in three months, and so I just need to get these followers engaged. I need to get them paying attention. I need to get them uh interacting with my post, engaging, and just come along for this journey so that by the time I'm ready to convert them and make that sale, they're primed and ready to go. They're like itching. They're they're asking for the weight list link." Um, and then of course there's the actual conversion content, which is what gets people onto your email list or into your business or whatever it may be. Um, and so my exact percentages vary depending on the season I'm in. 2 weeks ago, we were in the

middle of a launch. So 90% of my content was conversion content. Now, there was still entertainment baked in. There was still all of the principles of shareworthy content and just creating good captivating content baked in, but I didn't care. I wasn't trying to reach new people. I wasn't trying to grow. I even wasn't trying to nurture. I was just during that week making I think it was like 22 posts in 5 days that were all sales posts basically. They were all conversionoriented.

I love what you said in terms of like every post uh I I say every post has a purpose. That's what I I teach in my classes like every post has a purpose. Some people people think like every post needs to go viral and it's like no sometimes you actually want a lot of comments so you can retarget them in the DMs and you know start a conversation and things like that. So, when you have some sort of offer or launch, uh, from my understanding, you love Many Chat, right? So, talk to us about like what does your ManyHat funnel look like? Are you taking people to a webinar? Are you taking them to a call? Um, you know, what like do you change things based on low ticket or high ticket? Talk to us about your funnel approach.

Yeah, absolutely. So, biggest biggest fan of Many Chat ever. I will sing their praises um until until the day I'm dead. I am obsessed with many chat and and have been talking about it for about 5 years and I am not going to stop talking about it because there's estimated 200 million content creators and small businesses who use Instagram and there's only about a million who use Many Chat. So about half a percentage are using the tool that literally every single one of them should be using. Um so yeah, every single time I'm selling I am never using a link. I am never saying go click the link in my bio or put a link on my stories. It's always DM automation. It's always comment a keyword to get a thing, reply with a keyword to get a thing, and usually it's a free thing. We have like over 30 uh freebies and digital downloads or or even $7 low ticket things in our funnel. Um because I'm a huge proponent of the email list. Uh my

family has had personal experiences with hacks and losing social media and losing tens of tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of followers in a day. Um, and so an email list is is I think still to this day the bread and butter of any successful business online. I don't care how many followers you have. I care how many email list subscribers you have. That will be a much better predictor of your bottom line, your revenue, um, and your numbers than, you know, going viral or having a lot of followers. So everything we do is driving people to our email list. I will say when I've done high ticket offers in the past uh we have used more uh like uh consultation calls and like more hightouch sort of things to get people converted into actual customers. But the vast majority of what I sell is low ticket. Um I think the most expensive offer that we've ever made of our Insta Club hub was less than $600 and that was

for a lifetime purchase. Our usual offer is a monthly which is $47 a month or a $7 twoe trial. So, the majority of our leads are getting funneled um from a freebie to the $7 trial into the $47 membership or sometimes straight into the $7 trial. Uh but we rarely even promote directly into the $47 membership.

I love webinars, right? And I think my price points are different. I like for my LinkedIn master class, I charge like $1,500 to $2,000. Um, so because it's a higher price point, I feel like I need like, you know, an hour to really show my expertise and kind of convince people. But for you, since it's low ticket, you can do a lot of like content on your social media and people already like, you know, willing to like you've provided $47 of value, so they're like, "Okay, what else could I get if I actually paid?"

Thousand%. I love webinars as well. We during that big launch that we had a few weeks ago, it was webinars because we were selling a $600 lifetime membership. And so that was something that we did an hourong webinar and then sold into the membership at the end. So thousand% agree with you.

Another one of your frameworks, you've got this STD stories formula. Yeah. Uh so talk to us about stories in general. You know, a lot of people use stories just to like share their post to the story and like how should we actually use stories? Some people like like document their entire day and have like a million stories. So what should we actually be doing with stories?

Yeah, great question. I would say that for most people, most of the time it's totally fine to just document your day and take people along for the ride. When you do that, your views are probably not going to be as high as they could be because people are just not interested in everything you're doing throughout the day. But the tradeoff is the people who are watching, they're getting to know you a little bit better. They're building that trust. When it comes time to use your stories strategically because you have a launch, you have a new podcast episode, you have something that you want people to pay attention to, to click on, to purchase, whatever.

That's when you do the STD story. And the STD story is not posting your genitals on the stories. Uh the STD story was named STD story so that you remember the name. People are always like, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe you named it that." Yeah, well, you're not going to forget it now. STD is how you get your maximum story views. And it stands for Single, meaning that you're only posting one story for those 24 hours. You're letting all of your existing stories either expire or you're deleting them. and you're letting your all of your future stories not be posted. So just one singular story for those 24 hours. The T stands for textheavy. A very common mistake people make with their stories is no offense to the name of this podcast. They start yapping. They yap away on their Instagram stories and they take up the full 60 seconds. And it's like I I remember I don't know I'm not sure if you remember back in the day when

Instagram stories were 15 seconds and then Instagram made it 60 and suddenly everyone's like, "Oh, yay. I get to be long-winded." But people we are all so annoyed when someone posts a 60-second talking head yapping Instagram story. Like unless it's just our all-time favorite person, we ain't watching the full thing. There's no way to rewind. There's no way to fast forward. People forget subtitles. And so instead of doing a video story, instead of doing a talking head story, your T, the T in the STD is textheavy. So I usually just do like a selfie with my face like in the bottom right corner where I'm like making the expression that the story is trying to convey. Um, or sometimes I'll just do like a solid color. Like literally, if you look at my most viewed stories of all time, I'm pretty sure seven of the top 10 have just a plain black background with white text on top. Like as simple as it gets.

Wow. And when I say textheavy, I do mean like multiple sentences of text. And the reason that that strategically works is that stories, story photos are usually only displayed for about 3 to 5 seconds. But when you put that text on the screen, people hold their finger down to pause the story and then it extends the watch time. So Instagram, the algorithm is is essentially thinking, hey, this story was supposed to be up for 4 seconds, but it was up for 8 seconds. So, it had a 200% watch rate compared to most other stories that are just tap tap tap through. That's a huge difference, the T. And then the D is the most important part. I have um a framed photo back here that one of my uh subscribers sent me that says this, which is that you can't have an STD without the D. The D is the most important part of the STD story. And the D stands for what we were talking about earlier, which is DM automation. Like yes, you can do a

textheavy story. Yes, it can just be a single, but you will not get maximum views unless you get people sending you messages. And so that's why uh all of my most viewed stories, like I think it's I did the math one time, it was like 35 of my top 36 stories all had some form of DM automation, telling people reply with the word blank and you will get blank. Um, so that's the STD story. Use it strategically. Use it when you have something that you specifically want to promote. Don't use it every day or your followers will get annoyed. Uh, but that's how you get max views.

I don't know what it is, but for me, I'm so like obsessed with who's watching my stories and like I'll never check like who's liking my stuff. I'll never go through LinkedIn and who's liking, but for some reason because there's like less views, I feel like there's so much more important and that like that that it's really like people connecting with me. Is that the right way to think about it? Yeah, that's definitely a great way to think about it. I think like besides your literal inner circle or if you have like, you know, paid subscribers or anything like that, your story viewers, those are the people who are choosing to watch your stories. Adam Moser is on record of saying one of the biggest indicators that they look at in terms of like who sees what stories is what stories have you clicked on in the p in the past because there's so many little circles up there. if you specifically click on someone's out of th that that

lineup, they're going to be way more likely to be shown your stories in the future. And so, um, yeah. No, it's like an intimate. It feels like a close circle and like absolutely, for sure.

Let's talk about batching and content creation. I'm going to ask you a question selfishly. So, I've been like really focused on uh my business. And one of the things that I really want to do is just create more authentic content and create reals. Like a lot of the stuff is like my team's making it or it's I do a lot of podcast content that gets chopped into reals, but that that's not going to like really work. Like I need to actually get on camera, talk and things like that and and create original content for social media. So, I bought all this equipment and I'm ready to go.

What is your advice to me and and somebody else who really wants to get into creating reals and things like that? Like how should we go about creating that content?

My advice to you is going to be a tiny bit different just because you have a team already and you have so much content already. For most people, what I would recommend is take 2 weeks off of posting because most people I work with, what we see is they're on this neverending hamster wheel of I wake up with no ideas. So, I come up with an idea, I make it, I spend a few hours editing it, I post it, and then my backlog is empty, and I got to do the whole thing over again tomorrow. That's going to lead to burnout. That's very tiring. That's very exhausting. So, instead, what I say is take two weeks off of posting and use those two weeks to create as much as you possibly can so that when you can start posting again, you're able to hit the ground running and you have things scheduled for you.

Since you already have a team, go ahead and keep putting the chopped up podcast clips up for those two weeks. And for you, spend two weeks just batch creating as much as you possibly can. And that should allow you to, you know, when you actually start posting, you have like this backlog and you don't have to feel the pressure of creating content every single day. But I think there's also a few other strategies we can get into with consistency and showing up more. But I will throw in one little pro tip for you with like podcast clips. Two things that we've seen super effective with podcast clips recently is number one creating a cover sl first of all posting it as a carousel instead of a real. Yeah. But then making the first slide like a cover slide almost like a headline almost like you know Instagram expert shares key to going viral and it's like a photo of my face and then they swipe and then it's like a clip

from the podcast. So I think those are really effective. And the other one that I'm sure you've seen is where people do like a split screen and you're swiping through this carousel and it's just like freeze frame on top of freeze frame with like the subtitles are like put on top of the image. It's literally the exact same content that would be in the reel, but because it's in this unique format where it's like two screens or even I've seen people now do it with like three stacked on top of each other. Um it's almost like comic book style. I don't know why. It's just unique. It's engaging and it seems to be a much more interactive and uh high performing way to promote a podcast. So definitely do those if you aren't already.

I love that. I love we're not doing the cover side thing. We've experimented with that like comic book style where like it's like me asking a question and then the person responding with like really good advice. And sometimes I think it's just like sensory adaptation, right? People just get sick of these talking head videos and they just scroll like they just I don't want to wa I don't want to watch this talking head video, but for some reason just reading it might be like, you know, something new, something fresh that they want to engage with. So that's that's great.

What about equipment? What do you think like for somebody just getting started? A lot of people overthink the equipment and they don't get started because, you know, they don't know what equipment to or where to even start. So what do you recommend equipment wise?

I think Sony just came out. No, your freaking iPhone, your phone in your hand is literally all you need. Like I I remember I had reached over half a million followers. Uh and I had had no equipment besides a ring light that I stole from my mom. Shout out to mom. Um and that was it. I had no microphone. I had no fancy camera, no lighting, nothing. I had no setup, no office. Um, and I it wasn't until I was having an interview with a good friend of mine who's a big YouTuber and he's like, "Dude, your audio quality on your reels is so shitty." And I was like, "Oh, it is." And he was like, "Here." And he like tossed me like this little like $15 plug-in microphone that I still have and use to this day. I think that as you grow and level up, you can start to invest in those things. But when you're getting started, I mean, I'm sure people have seen the new Zoom capabilities on the newest iPhone. like your phone is a

million times more than good enough to get started. I always tell the story with my podcasting that I started with a USB mic, a webcam, and a ring light two years into I was interviewing Matthew McConna virtually in my basement with $100 worth of equipment.

You know, I love that so much. It's just like you you really don't need a lot. All right. Um, so Brock, I feel like this has been such an awesome interview. I feel like we went through so much. Uh, I end my shows with two questions that I ask all of my guests. The first one is, what is one actionable thing that our young and profiters can do today to become more profitable tomorrow?

Practice empathizing, empathizing with your target audience. The better that you can understand their pain points, their struggles, what they're going through, the better you can create content, the better you can create products that serve their needs, that you don't need to sell to them because they know that it's going to cure all of their problems. It's going to help them. It's going to be the solution they're looking for. Um, that of course starts with knowing who your ideal audience is in the first place and getting super hyper specific with who they are. But the more that you can really deeply understand what they're going through and what their challenges are, the better everything else is going to be because of it.

What are the ways that you understand your audience, who they are, their pain points? Like what are the things that you do?

Listening like active listening um is huge. Um and guys, we are often times like stereotypically not going to ask you like when I go and hang out with my buddies and my wife's like, "How's such and such? How's their new baby? how's their new house? I'm like, oh, we didn't talk about that. Stereotypically, guys aren't the best at asking questions or active listening. Um, so it's a skill, but the more that you can listen and and listen means in the DMs, having conversations, reading comments sections. Oh, but Brock, no one comments on my post. Are you the only person who does what you do, or is this there some influencer or someone else in your space who does have a big following and does have an active audience? learning the words that they're using, learning the things that they're the questions that they're asking, the the stories that they're telling themselves, all of those things. Um, it's all out there, right?

Everyone's posting on the internet nowadays. And so, if you want to find what people are saying, uh, you can hunt for it. And whether it's on Reddit, LinkedIn, Instagram, Tik Tok, wherever, you can find it.

Is there anything that we said that that we didn't talk about today that you think creator entrepreneurs should know?

Not necessarily. I think the biggest uh like quick win that people can have from listening today is that you need to start posting your posts more than once. Way too often people are like posting it once and then they forget about it. I I like to say that every post you make should be posted at least three times. Even if it performs poorly the the first two times, you never know if the third time it's going to perform well. Wait at least 60 to 90 days in between each post. But every post you make should be posted at least three times. Um, and I'm notorious for I think about 75% of my content is not new. 75% of it is just something that I've previously posted and I'm literally re-uploading it or I'm slightly modifying it and then posting it again.

That is such good advice. I'm so glad you talked about repurposing content because I had it on things to talk about, but we just didn't cover it. All right, last question to you. What is your secret to profiting in life? And this can go beyond uh business, of course.

Ah, this is a really, really good question. Gosh, so many good questions today. Um, I would say this. So, this is so opposite what you normally hear from uh the bro marketers, which I am a bro and I am a marketer. Um, but like the the whole idea of of hustle culture, I I've seen what it what it's like to to be a workaholic. I've seen what that can do to a person. I've seen what that can do to a family. Um, and so I'm so thankful that I have someone like my wife in my life who helps me disconnect and unplug. And it's really important for me to have a slow morning and not like get up and meditate for an hour and then ice bath for 30 minutes and then like sauna all this crazy stuff. I'm going to have a cup of coffee. I'm going to hang out with my dogs and my wife. Um I'm going to stop working every day at 5:00 p.m. I moved to Utah from California so that I could snowboard as much as I possibly can. I think I'm

going to I'm going to try to hit 100 days of snowboarding this year. And like those things that fill up my cup, that's what life's all about. like what's the point of making more money or getting more followers if you don't get to actually reap the fruits of your labor? Um what's the point of labor for labor's sake? I I don't get it. So, um yeah, that's that's my answer.

I love that. Brock, I feel like I learned so much from this interview. I'm going to have my team listen to it multiple times, make sure they're taking notes. Thank you so much for sharing all your wisdom, for not being afraid to share all the different secrets to help other creators grow. Um, just thank you so much for joining us on Young and Profiting Podcast.

Yeah, this was amazing. Thank you so much. You're the best. I loved this conversation with Brock Johnson because he completely shattered the myth that Instagram is dead. He proved that with the right strategy, anybody can build a thriving presence and turn their content into real revenue even in 2025 and beyond. I personally took away so many lessons today, but the one that's top of mind is his approach to authenticity.

Brock said that the key to authentic content is strategically eliminating the time between idea and post. The more that we overthink and refine, the further that we drift from our original inspiration. His most viral posts weren't the ones that he spent hours and hours on. They were simple, relatable content that he created without overthinking. Here's what I want you to focus on. First, create shareworthy content instead of chasing viral hacks. Forget hashtags. Brock rated them a 1 out of 10. Stop obsessing over perfect post times or trending audio.

Instead, ask yourself, would I share this post with a friend? Shares bring you targeted viewers who actually convert into followers and customers. Next, use the STD story formula when launching something important. Post a single story for 24 hours. Don't post anything else. Make it textheavy instead of a talking head video and include DM automation. Text heavy stories achieve 200% more watch time because people pause to read, signaling powerful engagement to Instagram. In fact, watch time is an important metric across all social media platforms. And finally, ditch the links and embrace many chat. We are in 2025 after all.

You've got to be using DM automation to capture leads and build your email list. Even with under a thousand followers, you can generate tens of thousands of dollars in your launches by building deep trust. Your email list matters more than your follower account for predicting actual revenue. Yap gang, this is incredible news for new creator entrepreneurs because the playing field on Instagram has never been more level. Stop waiting for the perfect strategy and start putting in the reps. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of Young and Profiting. If you've got value from this episode, send it to a friend who needs to hear it.

Brock would totally approve because shares are the new likes. And if you enjoyed the show, I'd be so grateful if you dropped us a five-star written review on your favorite podcast app. Honestly, your words mean the world to me. In fact, I've got to give a huge shout out to Mustafa, who recently wrote, "I love the energy, the topics that Hala picks, the very fun way she runs her shows. It's great to see how the show progressed over the years to where it is right now. Continue the great work." Well, thank you so much, Mustafa, for taking a couple minutes out of your day to write a review. This is the kind of feedback that keeps our whole team fired up and motivated. You can also connect with me on Instagram, yap withhala. Today is the perfect day to find me on Instagram. Again, that's yapwithala or LinkedIn. Just search for my name. It's Hala Taha. Until next time, this is your host Halataha aka the

podcast princess signing

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Brock Johnson: Is Instagram Dead? Unlock the Secret to Explosive Social Media Growth"?

In order: 0:00 Instagram algorithm, Insta Club, Brock Johnson, Build Your Tribe; 10:00 hyperconsistency, Marketing Harry, Revolve Holiday Shop, revolve.com/profiting; 20:00 carousels, hashtags, trending audio, trial reels; 30:00 QuickBooks, Framer, Design Pages, framer.com/design; 40:00 email list, attract, nurture, convert framework, conversion content, DM automation; 50:00 DM automation, authentic content, email list, Insta Club; 1:00:00 authentic content, Brock Johnson, DM automation, email list.

What is mentioned in this Young and Profiting episode?

51 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Reels, ManyChat, Instagram algorithm, Insta Club, email list, DM automation. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Brock Johnson: Is Instagram Dead? Unlock the Secret to Explosive Social Media Growth"?

The episode runs 1 h 9 min; the transcript is about 14,439 words in 130 timestamped sections.

More from Young and Profiting

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated December 17, 2025.