Transcript

Help Find Molly Bish's Killer | Full Episode + Post Mortem

From 48 Hours · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 1 h 6 min · 9,284 words · 176 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Help Find Molly Bish's Killer | Full Episode + Post Mortem", an episode of 48 Hours published January 18, 2026 (1 h 6 min, about 9,284 words). It mentions 4 people, works and ideas, including Comins Pond, Dr. Ann Marie Meyers, John Ki.

What this episode is about

The case of Molly Bish, a teenage lifeguard who went missing in 2000 from Cumins Pond in Massachusetts, remains unsolved after over 7,600 days, leaving her family desperate for answers about her fate. As the investigation unfolds, various theories arise about her disappearance, including potential abduction and drowning, while the memories and emotions from that harrowing day continue to haunt those involved.

Key takeaways

  • After 7,680 days, the silence surrounding Molly Bish's disappearance is louder than any unanswered question.
  • TikTok turns into a modern-day platform for justice, where a sister's love meets the internet's reach.
  • In a world of instant updates, some mysteries linger like ghostly echoes, haunting families decades later.
  • Molly's case reminds us: sometimes it's the absence of evidence that screams the loudest.
  • From lifeguard to legacy — Molly Bish's story is a haunting reminder of life's fragility and unresolved tragedies.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 10:00: Comins Pond, 48 Hours, John Ki
  2. – 20:00: Comins Pond, John Ki
  3. – 30:00: John Ki, Comins Pond
  4. – 40:00: 48 Hours
  5. – 50:00: Comins Pond, 48 Hours
  6. – 1:00:00: Comins Pond, Dr. Ann Marie Meyers, John Ki
  7. – 1:05:30: 48 Hours

Notable quotes from "Help Find Molly Bish's Killer | Full Episode + Post Mortem"

  • Molly went to work that day. it was her eighth day as a lifeguard at Cumins Pond. She drove with her mom to work.
    about Comins Pond · at
  • Also present at the scene was then Worcester District Attorney John Ki.
    about John Ki · at
  • Dr. Meyers believes that Molly's killer most likely picked Whiskey Hill because of its hidden location.
    about Dr. Ann Marie Meyers · at
  • Tonight, a break in the murder of Molly Bish. More than 20 years after the teenager was killed, investigators have named a new person of interest. Molly, we named the person of interest.
    about 48 Hours · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Dr. Ann Marie Meyers — Person · Referenced expert / forensic anthropologist · 1 mention · first at
    Led/organized the 2003 Whiskey Hill search methodology and helped interpret remains; explains forensic reasoning about deposition and scattering of bones.
  • John Ki — Person · Referenced official / prosecutor · 5 mentions · first at
    Then Worcester District Attorney present early in the case; convened a grand jury in 2004; later retired after the grand jury was dismissed without indictment.

Places & events

  • Comins Pond — Place · Setting · 10 mentions · first at
    Primary location where Molly Bish was last seen before her disappearance.

Sponsors

  • 48 Hours — Sponsor · Sponsor · 6 mentions · first at
    The media outlet that covered Molly Bish's case and provided updates over the years.

Full transcript with timestamps

It's been 7,680 days since my sister disappeared, and I've been waiting for answers on what happened to her. This is one of those cases that has haunted me my entire career. I was there from day one. This could be a very significant break in this case. June 27th, 2000, I was a reporter at WBZ TV in Boston. We received word that there was a teenager missing in Warren, Massachusetts. It was a lifeguard who was supposed to be working at this pond. Do you remember coming here?

Yes. It started like every other missing person case that I've ever worked. And about what time did Molly arrived here?

We believe sometime after 9:50. Molly went to work that day. Uh it was her eighth day as a lifeguard at Cumins Pond. She drove with her mom to work. She stopped at a extra mart and purchased a bottle of water. She went to the police station, secured a police radio, her mom, and she then drove the short distance down to Cumins Pond.

I was with Molly and they dropped her off and everything seemed fine. And the rest is a mystery at this point.

And what was left behind? Chair, radio, uh her flip-flops, a bottle of water. It was all all right there. They said that she would she would she possibly drowned knowing that she probably didn't, but I ran into the water.

He did. He was trying to get to the deep end. You just going on adrenaline. It's your baby sister.

You saw, you know, fireboats coming in. You saw dive teams coming in. The state police helicopter was hovering from up above. They had cadetses from the state police.

Take your time. Doing grid searches all throughout the town in the woods and they were stopping cars.

Was it an abduction? Did she drown? Um, did she walk away? I was like frantic. My mom and I were frantic and we were just staring into this pond like it'll resurrect her or it'll tell us what happened to her. Like it had the answers that we didn't have. We had to sleep with no knowing where she was the first time in our life.

You were actually on this case from the very beginning. Yes. My role as the anthropologist, the archaeologist. They were coming to me and saying, "Dr. Myers, we're not finding her. Where could she be?" They were focusing down around Cummings Pot and I said, "You need to branch out.

The months went by, the years went by, and then the decades went by." So that's when I became a warrior.

Ever since that day, I've been trying to find the person who took my sister. I'm asking you for help. I picked up that sword and I started marching on.

To the man responsible for the abduction of my sister, Molly Bish, I want you to know I'm coming for you.

I will never give up. Maybe we won't know why, but we at least deserve to know who.

I will use science. I will use technology. I will use my voice. I will not stop screaming from the mountain tops for justice for Molly. I'm coming for you. I'm coming. Have you heard of Molly Bish? She looks like this. She was abducted in 2000. She was only 16 years old.

In 2021, two decades after her sister went missing, Heather Bish did something she never thought she would do.

40-year-old me got into the Tik Tok game. It's allowed me to like share my story and share Molly's story and really just be honest. It's been 7,680 days since my sister disappeared, and I've been waiting for answers on what happened to her.

She hopes that by going public with her Tik Tok videos online, she will generate tips that will finally solve her sister's case and put an end to a painful 25-year-old mystery.

If you know something, please say something. The wait needs to be over. The last time Heather [ __ ] saw her little sister Molly was the morning of June 27th, 2000, just before Molly left for her job as a lifeguard at Cumins Pond in Warren, Massachusetts. Molly was playing with Heather's 11-month-old daughter, Michaela.

She was having fun with Michaela, and I remember my mom saying, "Come on, we got to go. We got to go. You're going to be late." But shortly after Molly was dropped off, beachgoers arrived and she wasn't there. Police were eventually called to the scene. By the time they told Maggie Bish Molly had been missing for 3 hours.

And my mom was frantic on the phone. She said, "She's not there. She's not there. Her shoes are there." My heart dropped. I just knew something was wrong because I knew Molly wouldn't go anywhere without her shoes on.

Why? Because she didn't like icky feet. When you first heard that she was missing, did you think maybe she had gone off with friends?

John Jr. is Molly Bish's brother. It's not what we do. It's not our personal, our character. We were raised better than that.

16-year-old Molly was Maggie and John Bish's third and youngest child. 48 Hours interviewed John back in 2003. She was heavily involved in school, with sports, with her friends.

Molly was an honorroll student, varsity athlete, and she had just completed her junior year of high school.

Molly was just very loud and fun. Heather says despite their six-year age difference, they were extremely close. It was a bond she had had with Molly ever since the day she was born. I do remember thinking that, oh, that baby is my baby, too. I'm going to teach her everything I know and um, you know, we're going to do this life together.

Molly also had a close relationship with her brother. She very much wanted to be like my brother.

I took her underneath my wing. You know, I was a lifeguard before her. She wanted to be a lifeguard. Um, we played soccer together, baseball together.

Molly was 5'7. You know, she was athletic and in shape and strong. So when police suggested that Molly could have drowned, they didn't believe it.

When Molly went missing, I mean, we it was inconceivable. And then what I was told was the first aid kit was open.

Adding to the mystery, the police radio was there, but Molly had not used it for her required morning check-in.

Why? So what was what happened? Very good. Later that afternoon, when it became clear to local police that Molly had not just walked off with friends,

the K9 commences water search. State police took over the investigation and launched an extensive search.

We're looking for a 16-year-old. Her name's Molly Bish. She's the life captain of the town beach. Massachusetts State Police Lieutenant Colonel Dan Richard headed to Warren to help out.

I had a three-year-old daughter. Her name was Molly. She had blonde hair. She has blue eyes. This case has every day been with me from that day to today.

Also present at the scene was then Worcester District Attorney John Ki. The state police are working around the clock on this. Okay. Detectives zeroed in on everyone who was close to Molly, including family members, friends, and Molly's boyfriend, Steven Lucas. They had only been dating for 3 months and had just gone to the prom together.

What raised some suspicion was that Steven Lucas had a fat lip and he had some scratches on him. former WBZ investigative reporter Kathy Curran.

Could a young kid pull off this crime in such a short amount of time? The bishes never believed that Steven was involved. Within 24 hours, authorities were looking at known sex offenders in the area.

We've looked at 35 to 45 uh sex offenders uh in the area. That's been the scariest part about all this is realizing how many bad people were within the fabric of our of our community.

Molly's dad worked tirelessly with police. He was always going every weekend trying to work with the police and trying to find different ways to to find Molly. And despite the fact that DNA testing was still in its early stages back in 2000, Detective Richard says they did collect and document many items found in and around the pond area, including discarded cigarettes and trash.

When we did the initial search, anything that wasn't there by nature or by God was at least identified as as potential evidence. As the days went by, the vicious despair grew.

It wasn't like Molly was hit by a car or got sick. She was just suddenly gone, and we didn't know where she was.

But it would be Maggie Bish who would give detectives their biggest lead. We pulled into the parking lot here. The morning before Molly disappeared, as Maggie went to drop Molly off at work at Cumins Pond, she recalled seeing a man sitting alone in a white car that resembled this one.

And I see this guy and he's just smoking a cigarette and he just gives me a like a little look and I said, "Oh, I can't leave her here." You know, it's like the mama bear comes out.

Maggie says she waited for 20 minutes until they finally left. When she brought it up with Molly that evening, Molly didn't seem concerned.

She says, "Oh, no, Ma. It's just fisherman. Don't be I'm not afraid." The next day, when Molly disappeared, Maggie told the police about what she had seen.

That became very significant because now we had a piece of information. A sketch was composed based on Maggie's description, and it was released to the public. this is the individual that we're looking for. Uh in that white car,

I had seen the hair. It was gray. It was very thick. There's just that smoking, you know, that dog on smok. And that's what I remembered.

Almost immediately, hundreds of tips started flooding in. If you were a a 50-year-old white male with a mustache and salt and pepper hair, somebody may have wanted to give us a call. Many months later, authorities released a second different sketch.

I believe that this sketch is a remarkable sketch and it's very distinctive and I think it's going to help us a great deal.

But still no Molly. I think that's what makes this case so difficult. You know, you have so many people who resemble that sketch. You know, when when time kept going and passing, you knew it wasn't good. You just know that somebody either has her, and that's horrendous.

And then almost 3 years after Molly disappeared. Live from Warren, Kathy Curran, WBZ4 News.

Police were notified that a bathing suit had been found in the woods just 5 miles from Cumins Pond. It's the first major break in this case in years and a very anxious time for Molly's parents.

Do you remember the very first time you came here? Yes, I do. It was May of 2003. We came here from what we thought would be the recovery of Molly Bish.

3 years after Molly Bish disappeared, Dr. Amory Meyers, a forensic anthropologist for the Boston Medical Examiner's Office, was summoned by police to the area known as Whiskey Hill, located about 5 miles from Cumins Pond. This is how we came in at first. So, right above us here are these rock ledges, and this is where the bathing suit was found. A local hunter had stumbled upon pieces of a weatherbeaten blue bathing suit, much like the one that Molly Bish was wearing when she disappeared. When I saw the bathing suit, I said, "This has probably been up here for roughly 3 years."

And how could you tell? was covered by deadfall, so leaves and debris from three years of uh foliage dropping, but then it had also grown into the surface and roots had come up through it.

I arrived with my photographer and I was let in. Acting on a tip, Kathy Curran and her crew got there in time to take pictures of the bathing suit.

What's going through your head? I was sick to my stomach. just thinking about Maggie and John and knowing what it could mean.

As Kathy left Whiskey Hill, she called Maggie and she said, you know, could you show us the video? And I said, "Maggie, you know, I I really don't want to do that, but you know, if that's what you want to do, I I want to do whatever I can to help." She just had a little van and had the six little TVs or whatever inside and she showed it to us. So distinctive.

It looks like her and I knew I knew that was Mos right then and there. Let's go in the house.

Okay. And I went up. I locked myself in the room. I cried so hard. There was nothing. I was gut-wrenched.

It was one of the toughest days of my career because, you know, for 3 years there was still hope and she knew at that moment that something was drastically wrong and something horrible had happened. Investigators sent the bathing suit to the Massachusetts State Police Lab and a private lab in Virginia for DNA testing.

So now we've got to search the area and see if we can find evidence that can help us determine what happened up there.

As they waited for DNA results, under Dr. Meyer's instruction. You all know what we're looking for.

A new search was launched. And that's when I basically said, "We're going to grid this area.

Anyone who has compasses, you're working off 110 as 110 magnetic field." We did grid searching arm to arm. They were within sight of each other. They rad. They combed the forest with rakes.

And had any of that area been searched before? No. When John Bish arrived to the scene, Dr. Meyers assured him of one thing.

You know, I looked him straight in the face and I I shook his hand and I said, "Mr. Bish, if you're if your daughter's remains are are here, we're going to bring her home to you."

DA John Ki announced that the DNA results came back as inconclusive. The search continued and intensified

and it was the biggest search that's ever been conducted in Massachusetts history.

And almost two weeks later, they made an horrific discovery. This afternoon, we did discover a human bone. It's the upper arm bone. And Dr. Myers does describe it as the bone of a person between 14 and 20 years of age.

What did that feel like to finally find a bone? Unbelievable. But immediately I thought of the family.

We've now established the area as a crime scene area. As days went by, investigators would come to find more human bones. It was like every day they came with small rib bones. It was like uh agonizing and and you know they were trying to find M. And we went out every morning. We thanked the the searchers. We were so grateful that people would continued to look and help us find Maul.

By the end of the 3-week search, investigators found as many as 27 bones and a human skull spread across 35 acres of forest. It was confirmed through DNA testing and dental identification that the bones were Molly's. Dr. Meyers believes that Molly's killer most likely picked Whiskey Hill because of its hidden location.

Do you believe the killer might have been a hunter? Been that familiar with the area?

It's possible. She also believes that after Molly was killed, a mountain lion may have scattered her remains among the 35 acres of forest. I often felt that the person knew the area and knew that there was uh a large animal up there. We want to tell you that Molly's come home. We are extremely saddened. The depth of our sadness no family should have to endure.

With the discovery of her sister's remains, Heather had a hard time accepting the tragic news.

I wanted to run away. Honestly, I just wanted to run outside of this nightmare and this life and maybe my even my own body, but I remember feeling like I wanted to run away immensely.

The search for Molly Bish was now over, but the search for her killer was never more urgent. 2 months after Molly Bish's bones were discovered in August of 2003 on what would have been her 20th birthday, Molly was laid to rest.

And we commend you now to the loving care of the Lord of us all. We were so blessed we got to have it in a church. But after three years, the bishes still had no answers as to who could have murdered Molly. And the man in the white car who Maggie had seen the day before Molly disappeared had never been identified.

Frustrating is a reoccurring word in in this case. Maggie wasn't the only one who reported seeing a suspicious white car in the vicinity. say investigators. On the day that Molly went missing, a white car was spotted at a car wash right down the street from the pond. And again in the cemetery behind the pond.

So where is Cummings Pond? Right from here. It's that direction straight down. And you can see there's a p a path opening there.

Yes. So somebody saw a white car where? Right down on that road down there. Yes. So, is the thought that if somebody brought the car down there, they could maybe grab her, pull her back up, get in the car before,

that's a theory. In fact, in the early days of the investigation, search dogs did follow Molly sent from the pond leading up to the cemetery.

You don't just stumble upon Cum's pond. That's why the person who killed Molly Bish had to have watched her and they had to have had a plan.

But there were still so many unanswered questions like why was the first aid kit left open? Kathy Curran believes that Molly's abductor may have pretended to be injured

and then someone either forced her or threatened her to get her up that hill because she she's athletic. She's not going to go easily.

Then in May of 2004, four years after Molly disappeared, DA John Ki called for a grand jury to be convened. Whenever you hear a grand jury in a criminal case, you think, "Oh, they have evidence against someone." So, the hope was that the case was moving forward. Heather along with her family were called to testify. They say that many of the DA's questions seem to be focused on Molly's friends.

I remember we were all kind of like mad because we didn't feel like they were really significant. But detectives had learned that some of Molly's friends had gathered at her boyfriend Steven Lucas's house the morning of Molly's disappearance.

We have a timeline. And they were telling police conflicting stories about what happened in the hours before and after Molly went missing. The grand jury transcripts are sealed, so it is not known whom the investigators actually questioned, but they would later clear Steven Lucas as a person of interest. After two long years, in December of 2006, the grand jury was dismissed without an indictment.

It was disappointing. It was incredibly disappointing. Just weeks after the grand jury was dismissed, John Ki retired and Joe Early Jr. took over as Worcester District Attorney. He says the grand jury was used as an investigative tool to preserve witnesses testimony.

You get them right in. You get them under oath and there's a criminal penalty if they lie in the grand jury. And they can't say later, "I didn't say that." Because it's right there. And that is something that helps us get cases beyond a reasonable doubt and prove guilt.

But Heather says not having answers as to who murdered her sister was taking its toll.

I was giving up hope in a lot of areas. And things only got worse. In 2007, her father, John Bish, who worked so closely with police, had a stroke. Heather would now face the daunting task to take over where her father had left off. And it would not be easy.

The police have always stayed very careful about what they'd let us know. The police kept saying it. We're just one piece of information away. Well, where is that piece? Sunday.

In 2008, a man who resembled the sketch named Rodney Stanganger was arrested for murdering his girlfriend in Florida. The victim's sister reached out to Heather and claimed that Stanganger may have been involved in Molly's murder as well.

He has this violent history. He lived um very close to where Molly trained to be a lifeguard.

Was he a smoker? He was also a smoker. He was known to fish at Cumins Pond and hunt in the area where Molly was found.

Police were notified about this tip, but Heather says she was told that Stanganger had been on one of the investigators lists of persons of interest from the very beginning.

I've actually visited him in prison. Shawn Murphy is a lieutenant with the Massachusetts State Police. He didn't have much to say to me, but I attempted and so so have other investigators as well.

Stanganger was convicted of murdering his girlfriend and was sentenced to 25 years in prison. In 2012, state police went down to Florida again to search Stanganger's trailer.

We did execute a search warrant at his residence with our law enforcement partners and we did take items. Detective Murphy says the items were tested for DNA to see if they could be connected to Molly.

We've tested and continue to test and and move forward. But there was not enough evidence to make him an official suspect. And then in 2011, a private investigator came to Heather with a new tip about a man named Gerald Batistone. He had actually raped a woman in the woods where Molly was found. His ex-wife had a white car that she reported he was driving in Warren the day Molly disappeared.

Heather says she took this tip to the state police who have confirmed that Battis Stony who died in prison in 2014 was on their radar along with many others. There are times you could say, "This person's really good for this. This person's really good for that." That's not how you solve a crime. You know, you have to have the evidence to support it. Finally, in 2021, 21 years after Molly disappeared, it looked like investigators had enough evidence. The district attorney's office officially named a person of interest.

For the first time, I thought this is it. There will be justice. On June 3rd, 2021, more than two decades after Molly Bish disappeared, there was finally news.

Tonight, a break in the murder of Molly Bish. More than 20 years after the teenager was killed, investigators have named a new person of interest. Molly,

we named the person of interest. But you had never done that before. Never done that. Never done that in this case. But we did get more information to come in. We pursued those leads. And at that point, I was comfortable saying this person is a person of interest. Yes. Francis Frank Sumar Senior was a local auto repair shop owner with an extensive criminal record. Kathy Curran was the first to report the details.

Frank Sumner seemed like a great suspect. Frank Sumner has a violent past. He was convicted of rape and kidnapping.

Was he familiar with the area? He was he was familiar with the area. He was from the area. He had access to a white car. And when you compare the photo of him smoking the cigarette to the sketch, you can see a resemblance there. And just like the sketch, Sumner was photographed smoking with his left hand. DA Joe Early says Sumner, who died in 2016, had been well known to investigators working the Bish case for years.

What made Frank Sumner rise to that top to actually be called a suspect? Information that came in, some dots that were connected. Although tight-lipped about the details, the Worcester DA's office was confident that Sumner was a viable suspect and planned to compare his DNA to DNA found at the crime scenes. But as it turned out, they couldn't obtain Sumar's DNA. Sumner had been cremated, and his DNA had never been submitted to the National COTUS database. I don't know who dropped the ball, but somebody dropped the ball.

So, authorities traveled to Ohio to get DNA from his son, Frank Sumner Jr., he was serving time in prison for robbery.

And so, we waited and we waited cuz they said, "We're going to, you know, do some DNA analysis." Heather, who had started that Tik Tok months earlier, reached out to her followers to see if she could drum up more evidence. If you know something, if you've heard something, please call the state police tip line. We are still waiting for answers.

Heather says it took investigators about a year before they finally told her the results of the DNA testing.

It was inconclusive. What do you mean inconclusive? Was he eliminated from the DNA?

I don't know what that means. Oh, you don't. And they won't tell me. Heather wonders if authorities who collected discarded cigarettes and other evidence at Cumins's Pond even have a viable sample of the killer's DNA. Do you have enough DNA that you could do genetic genealogy? And have you done any? can't speak to the DNA. I can speak in this way. We continue to test and we've gotten well over hundred uh pieces of information tested and we continue to test.

You know that the bishes have been frustrated. They don't feel they're getting enough information from your office. They want to know is the DNA being preserved properly? What kind of DNA? As a general rule of thumb, no matter what family it is, the bishious other families that we have, we just don't share the information because someone might say something they shouldn't say and it can compromise the entire case.

However, he says DNA is just one piece of the puzzle. This isn't just a DNA case. There's a a lot of investigation that's been done. We need a little bit more. I'm not going to say what it is, but we need a little bit more to get to where we want need to get to name a person as the as a defendant in this case.

But Heather says she's losing faith in the investigators. It's really a sad situation to be a victim family member in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

Investigator Shawn Murphy says he understands Heather's frustration. Heather is a fierce advocate for her sister and her family and I wouldn't have it any other way and I have no problem being held accountable by Heather and I'm happy that she holds me accountable.

25 years after Molly Bish's murder, the case remains active and there is a new detective who has recently joined the investigation. She has a plan. When I dedicate myself to something, I do not stop until it's accomplished.

In March of 2025, Detective Chelsea Safford was hired to take over the Bish investigation. It's a perfect job for someone that has an overactive mind, thrives on challenges, and doesn't sleep much.

One of her first tasks has been to weed through and organize over 80 boxes of case files that have accumulated over the years.

I saw all those boxes and I just wanted to dive in. I just wanted to learn more. Detective Safford believes the answer to who killed Molly may just lie within these 80 boxes. This one I found Molly's um high school yearbook and I went through that um you know that I have a few tips that I was trying to track down. It's part of her strategy.

These are all tips to organize and look at past tips with fresh eyes. Who else might have heard or seen something that they didn't realize was significant? That one person that we haven't spoken to, they might be the missing piece that we've been searching for this entire time. I believe that that one more piece is out there. I just have to keep digging. And Detective Safford faces an overwhelming task. She says there has been almost 8,000 tips that have come in since Molly went missing and they keep coming.

I can honestly say that since I've been in this office, I don't think a week has gone by where we haven't received a Molly Bish tip, if not multiple throughout the weeks.

Detective Safford says she's also studying the many pieces of evidence involved in Molly's case. She allowed 48 hours to accompany her to the Massachusetts State Police Crime Labs DNA cold storage facility in Sudbury, Massachusetts. Boy, it's shivery in here.

Sherry Middhhoer is a forensic support section manager at the crime lab. And what am I looking at right in front of me? So, this is a bay um full of evidence. And all of these items here go with the Molly Bish case.

Inside some of these brown paper bags are items taken from the crime scenes. Is a swimsuit here? It is. Um Oh, it's this one, I believe. I don't think it says it on it, but I know it was sent out for additional testing. Are there any cigarettes here? Are any

There definitely are cigarettes. Containers. ABC. There are a lot of them in ABC.

ABC is this one here. They've been repackaged over time. Have they been tested?

Oh, yeah. Chelsea, are you going to be looking at this to see if there's something else? You're thinking, "What? Why don't we try to test that?"

Absolutely. Yes. Today, Detective Safford has her eye on one piece of evidence in particular, Molly's backpack.

I'll tell you, this is the number one item that I've been looking for. Why? I think what we carry in our backpack or our pocketbook, uh, I think it says a lot. And I I personally think learning about the person, the victim, I think, is a very important part of each case. Despite the challenges, Detective Safford says she is determined to find answers for the Bish family. None of us can bring Molly back, but the best thing I can do was find out what happened.

I see you have some of these solved, guilty, captured. Is that what you want to do in this case? It's not what I want to do. It's what I'm going to do. Yes, we we will do it. Heather Bish, who has been critical of the Massachusetts State Police investigation in the past, says she is encouraged by Detective Safford's passion. I feel like she has the same energy and commitment to solving this as I do.

Heather still makes Tik Tok videos about Molly's case, hoping her efforts will one day generate a tip that can help investigators.

Somebody knows something and somebody knows who killed Molly Bish. I will never give up. I I'll fight. Molly deserves that justice.

Da Joe Early Jr. insists that investigators are moving in the right direction. As you sit here, is Frank Sumner still on the top of the list of people of interest?

He's the only person of interest we've named. The only person of interest that's been named in this case? Yes.

On June 27th, 2025, the Bish family gathered with friends and family to remember Molly 25 years after her death. resting etal grant.

First at the cemetery and then at a more formal ceremony in the center of Warren.

I feel her beside me. Because of Molly, I have become braver than I ever thought possible. I have faced my deepest fears. I have endured unimaginable heartbreak. I have survived. I believe Molly's love and light have guided us through these 25 years. So today, we share our family's gratitude. And because of Molly, we have conquered what evil could not. For love is much stronger.

The evening ended with a gathering at Cumins Pond. I don't want people to ever forget Molly and we will never stop honoring her. Welcome to Postmortem. I'm your host, Ann Marie Green, and today we're discussing the case of Molly Bish, a 16-year-old lifeguard who disappeared from a local pond in Warren, Massachusetts on June 27th, 2000. Her remains were found 3 years later, but the big question still lingers today, which is who killed Molly Bish? Her sister Heather has taken to Tik Tok pleading for leads. So joining me now to talk about this case is 48 hours correspondent Erin Morardi. Thanks for joining us again Erin.

Oh well I love being here but a little warning. This is a tough story to talk about. An important story but it's tough.

It is. And before we get into it, if you have not listened to this episode yet, head on over to your podcast feed. The full audio version of this episode of 48 Hours is here. It's in your podcast feed right beneath this one. Go listen and then come on over for this conversation. And yes, Erin, this is a tough one because unlike a lot of the cases that we do for 48 hours, you know, there's isn't a resolution yet. We don't know who's responsible for her murder, 48 Hours actually covered this case back in 2003. Why revisit it now? Well, one thing, 48 hours, we stick with stories for a long time till they are resolved.

But most important is there's an unidentified killer and what happened to Molly, nobody wants to happen to any other child. And so, it is important to try to get answers in this case. Plus, there have been updates, important updates since we first aired this story. Um, number one, there's a person of interest. there had never been a person of interest named. And there's also a new detective who was uh assigned the case who is going to give new eyes to the evidence.

And it's the 25th anniversary. And I think most police officers will tell you and investigators will tell you that when you go back on a story, when there's an anniversary, there's always a chance that you'll get new tips. And this story is worth pursuing.

Yeah. And you know, Erin, one of the things that we have noticed with some cases that have gone unsolved for even decades, you know, things change, people get older, they may decide to come forward. So, you never know uh who may remember something that they had buried that may help with this case once they hear about the hour. So, just to remind people, on the morning of June 27th, 2000, Molly's mom, Maggie, dropped her off at Cumins Pond after 9:50 a.m., where Molly was working as a lifeguard. Shortly after that, beachgoers arrived, but Molly was not there. Police were eventually called to the scene, but Maggie wasn't notified until Molly had been missing for 3 hours.

First question, why did they wait so long to tell her family that she was missing? I think they didn't want to overly alarm her family. They thought, "Hey, maybe she just walked off with friends and took too long." Think back to 2000. Of course, this was 25 years ago. Warren is a small town. I think a lot of people kid themselves, but they think these things don't happen in a small town. Um, I think that sadly they didn't have a plan in place. I don't think it occurred to anyone this would happen. In fact, with hindsight, you look back, she actually had a police radio that she went to pick up and she's supposed to call in and check in. And I don't think anybody noticed that she didn't. or it's possible she never got a chance to because we do know that whatever happened to her happened to her within minutes, a very short period of time. I got to tell you, one of the things that sort of struck me being the

mom of a semi newly minted teenager is that I was surprised she was working at the pond alone.

I have to agree with you, Amory, that was concerning. Um, I was a lifeguard many years before that and I was never alone. Um, not because anyone feared I was going to get kidnapped, but because if I had to go in, and I did have to do that once, go in for a child, someone else has to be there to call the alarm to, you know, help me bring the the child in if the child needs CPR, anything like that. So, it really surprised me that she would be alone there. M. So, here's the thing, though. Once they determine that she's missing, I mean, they really do spring into action. There's an extensive search that's launched. Hundreds of tips start flooding in after police release a sketch. It is a description that Maggie gives them of a man that she remembers seeing in the parking lot. Um, he has a white car with him and he's at Cummins Pond the day before Molly disappeared.

What about this man really stuck out to Maggie? Well, according to Maggie, here's this man sitting in this white car. Um, usually families go there to go swimming and he's just sitting there smoking a cigarette with his left hand. Um, clearly it was a little bit of mother's instinct and just like concerned, why is he there? She tried to put it out of her head, but it it just kept bugging her. So that night she was concerned enough that she raised it with Molly and Molly just as 16-year-olds might do um said, "Oh, mom, he's probably a fisherman."

And she just kind of dismissed it. But it clearly bugged Maggie. Um but then the next day when Maggie did drop Molly off, there was nobody sitting there. So I think it was after her daughter disappeared that she realized that really may have been important. So, after 3 years, there was a breakthrough in the case. Uh, police are notified that there's a blue bathing suit that was found about 5 miles from Cumins Pond. It resembles the one that Molly was wearing on the day she disappeared. You interviewed a local reporter, Kathy Curran, who described what that moment was like for Maggie and John Bish, and it was, you know, obviously very emotional uh for them as parents, that kind of realization that if you're finding the bathing suit and you're not finding her, this is not a good sign.

Um, but what I was surprised about was how emotional Kathy was. They trusted Kathy. Um, that's the benefit of reporters staying on a story from the beginning and staying on it. They trusted her and they needed to have that information. And let's be honest, as we also know, police sometimes and investigators don't share everything with the family and the family wanted to know and they pushed Kathy to tell them and I think she struggled with it and that's why she's tearful. But um they wanted to know.

Yeah. And and I think you know when you're a journalist um and you know that maybe you have an awareness of of news that will be heartbreaking to the family. It's really difficult to determine what the right thing to do is in that moment. But it certainly seems like, you know, Maggie and her husband were were appreciative to get that opportunity to uh know, you know, what police already knew.

That is one of the most moving parts of the hour. When we realize that a mother is about to face reality, if you didn't have that bathing suit, you always had hope. And that bathing suit meant there was no more hope. Yeah. So, another really fascinating person that you spoke to uh during this hour was Dr. Ann Marie Meyers. She is a forensic anthropologist who works for the Boston Medical Examiner's Office. I had never heard of a forensic anthropologist before. I mean, how rare is it to come across one of those?

Well, it's not as rare anymore. I mean, I've run into the forensic anthropologists on quite a number of stories very similar to this. What happens is, you know, investigators are determined not just to solve the case, but also, especially when someone's missing, to bring that person back to his or her family. But sometimes it's difficult I mean after in this case just 3 years um to determine whether first if bones are found whether they are animal or human and that's something a forensic anthropologist can do right away. I should also talk a little bit about the search which is really interesting to me and that was organized by the anthropologists.

It's a grid search when they're looking for bones. And so you see these lines of police officers and investigators and volunteers who are going with rakes and walking looking for even tiny bones. So they they have to just really scour every part of that area. And we're talking about 35 acres. So it did take days and weeks to do that. And one other thing I thought was so interesting that we learned from Dr. Myers is that when someone disappears, she tells investigators, if you're in a urban area, that person could be found within a mile and a half radius. In a rural area, it's going to be maybe up to 5 miles. And guess what?

In this case, Molly was found about 5 miles away from Cumins Pond. She was spot on. but also she was able to tell us that this young woman Molly was left there but wasn't buried there. And you're about to hear something that we didn't even air in our hour. Why that matters. We could tell that she was placed there because the the the fluids from decomposition are so costic. Okay. Um that they burn the foliage. It literally doesn't allow the foliage to grow for a while.

So you could actually see kind of an imprint of her body. You could see an imprint

three years later. Even 3 years later because the foliage had not recovered from that where she was was

they did not find all the remains. They found up to 27 bones and her skull. And why it matters that you could determine whether she was actually buried or laid there was Dr. Meyer said it's very likely that the person who killed Molly and left her there was in a rush. Um and and Dr. Meyers also believed that it happened very shortly after she disappeared and was murdered.

And then sadly, and this was something else Dr. Myers told us um is that there was a large animal there who scattered the bones and made it so difficult for searchers to find uh Molly. So, you know, once bones are are found, the Bish family are able to have a funeral. But what I thought was really interesting about something that Molly's mom, Maggie, said, um it stuck out to me. She said she felt blessed that she could have a funeral in a church. Amory, I think what she was also saying was that she had her baby back. Um, they are religious. Um, and they they relied on their faith and have always relied on their faith to get through this. But I think it was also the idea um, we see this time and time again.

There's nothing worse, nothing worse for a family than when someone disappears and they are not found. And they at least knew where Molly was and they could go visit Molly and it was a huge funeral. So, they got the comfort of the entire community coming out um mourning with them. But you know, anyone who watches this hour, you'll see almost the entire time Maggie cries through the interview. So, the pain is still there. Welcome back. In May of 2004, uh 4 years after Molly disappeared, then DA John Ki called for a grand jury to be convened.

Now, according to the Bish family, who were called to testify, many of the questions focused on Molly's friends, but then 2 years later, the grand jury was dismissed without an indictment. This seems unusual to me, Aaron. Well, dissolving after two years, that's a long time, but the whole thing was rare. Let's be honest, your instincts are right. Um, usually grand juries are used so that prosecutors who think they're very close to being able to bring charges um will bring in witnesses where they think they can get probable cause or enough probable cause to convince a judge that they should be able to bring charges against someone. That's what grand juries are usually used for. But there are investigative grand juries and that's what in fact the now current DA Joe Early says this was for. Um, and that is possible because the benefit of a grand jury is that you can pull people in who don't want to talk and they have

to. There's a subpoena. Um, and they have to tell the truth because they're under oath. So, it's it's very possible that this was from the beginning an investigative grand jury. Two years is a long time and very expensive, but because all the testimony is sealed, we really can't tell exactly what happened, but we do know that it is unusual and no indictments came out of it.

I mean, for the Bish family, it must have been incredibly frustrating. They are sitting there, they're hearing all these questions about Molly's friends, and I'm sure they're wondering, well, what do they know that we should know? Um, and then at the end of two years, they they really get no answers. And not only do they not get answers from the grand jury, and they can't find out what people said, but the investigators aren't telling them much either. And you and I both know this, Amory, this happens all the time because investigators are always worried if they say something to the family, the family's going to tell friends that it's going to get out. So, it was very, very difficult for the family, as you can imagine. Heather was so frustrated. Um, she's the older sister. She doesn't have answers and she wants answers like everybody else.

Wow. And this is what's particularly impressive about Heather because she is of course a very vocal advocate. She's been so throughout the years, but she wants to raise public awareness about this case and she does something that is sort of not not natural for her to do. She heads to Tik Tok. She does head to Tik Tok and you and I are both seeing that more and more now. Heather so much believes that she might be able to keep this case alive and and get tips that as of now she's done about 250 videos. Think about that. And has 12,000 followers. But even before there was Tik Tok, Heather was already on the case.

And she would get tips from people and bring them to the police. She heard about a man who had been charged um with killing his girlfriend in Florida, a guy by the name of Rodney Stanganger, who was familiar with War in Massachusetts, but had moved to Florida. And the victim's sister had actually reached out and said he might be involved in Molly's murder. And so that was one of the tips that Heather gave police. And it turned out that Rodney Sanger had been on their radar. And in fact, they went and talked to him and later searched his trailer.

And then later on, a private investigator told Heather about a man by the name of Gerald Batiston. Um, who also had an extensive police record and and in fact, again, Heather found out that he was also someone that they had looked at from the beginning. And we want to remind our listeners that there was not enough evidence to name Rodney Stanganger or Derald Badeston as suspects. Um it does take, you know, more than two decades after Molly disappears. It's June 3rd, 2021, and police actually do name a person of interest. His name is Frank Sumner. Uh we learned in the hour that he's a local auto repair shop owner. He looks like that police sketch. He resembles it. He has access or had access to a white car and he was previously convicted of rape and kidnapping

and smoking with the left hand. Right. So that to me is so significant. I mean that just stays in your head when you watch the hour. But I should point out a little bit of background on Sumar. He was convicted back in 1982 for aggravated rape and kidnapping after luring a woman to an apartment, choking her, and then threatening to kill her and raping her. He was parrolled in 1998, which was 2 years before Molly disappeared. And after his release, he accumulated a lengthy criminal record over 20 pages long that included multiple charges, failure to register as a sex offender, disorderly conduct, and harassment. And all those were still pending when he died. And um after the current DA had named Frank Sumner as a person of interest, Sumner's family became very upset and they said, you know, where's where's the proof? You know, um we have a large family. You know, we all share his name. Where's the

proof? The DA tried to compare Sumner's DNA with DNA found at the crime scene, but the problem was Sumner was cremated. And somehow they had never taken his DNA while he was in prison. It was not in the FBI KOTA system. So, uh, they sent investigators to Ohio and they took the DNA of his son and then after a year or so they announced that it's inconclusive and but won't explain what that means. That is so disappointing. Clearly, you know, COTUS has its limitations because it's only a certain pool of individuals that are going to be found in Cotus. But you would think somebody convicted of rape, it would be guaranteed that his DNA would be on file somewhere,

right? But you know what? Some of the older cases, they weren't doing DNA back then. I think it's more common now that they're making sure that uh particularly people convicted of very serious crimes have their DNA in the system. But um I think that there's still a lot of hope as we've seen in so many cases recently as the testing for DNA gets better. I think the big question in this case is do they even have the killer's DNA? Um, if you remember the three hours of a delay before they really took this as a kidnapping, not just a young woman who disappeared. So, you had a contaminated crime scene. And so, while investigators did pick up cigarette butts and picked up everything, do they actually have DNA evidence from the killer? You actually went someplace really interesting for this hour. You visited the Massachusetts State Police Crime Labs DNA cold storage facility. What was that like?

Well, I had never been number one in a storage facility like that. That was so cold. And um it gave me great comfort to see how much evidence has been preserved. Um, and what we also learned while we were there is that um, as DNA tests improve, then that means that some of the evidence that they think is most important or could be important can be tested. I mean, even though it's been decades, there's at least one person who is confident that Molly's killer will be found, and it's a new detective, Detective Chelsea Safford. She was hired to take over the Bish investigation. I mean, she was very clear um that she believes that she will find they will find Molly's killer. I appreciate the confidence. What I kept on thinking was, well, what are you going to do differently? Well, you know, I know this sounds a little cliche, but she is going to add fresh eyes. And I have seen that where young investigators, she's young,

she's a woman, might bring new ideas, might find something. She's going back through. She said there were like 8,000 tips that had come in. She's going back through those to see if there's a tip that maybe now 25 years later, you look at and you go, "Oh my god." Um, and so, you know, I appreciate her optimism and it's important for the community and it's important for the family. I'm I'm hoping for the family and everyone that is so invested in this that there is an end to this case and uh 48 hours can do that followup as well. Um, thank you so much for talking with us, Erin.

Well, it's always great talking about these cases and they stay in our hearts for a long time.

Yeah. Um, and thank you all for listening. If you like this podcast, please rate and review on Apple Podcast or Spotify. And if you have any information that can help authorities find Molly's killer, please reach out to the Molly Bish tip line. That number is 5084537575.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Help Find Molly Bish's Killer | Full Episode + Post Mortem"?

Heather Bish (Guest), Maggie Bish (Guest), John Bish (Guest), Dr. Ann Marie Meyers (Guest), Kathy Curran (Guest), DA Joe Early Jr. (Guest), Detective Chelsea Safford (Guest), Erin Morardi (Guest).

What is "Help Find Molly Bish's Killer | Full Episode + Post Mortem" about?

The case of Molly Bish, a teenage lifeguard who went missing in 2000 from Cumins Pond in Massachusetts, remains unsolved after over 7,600 days, leaving her family desperate for answers about her fate. As the investigation unfolds, various theories arise about her disappearance, including potential abduction and drowning, while the memories and emotions from that harrowing day continue to haunt…

What is mentioned in this 48 Hours episode?

4 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Comins Pond, Dr. Ann Marie Meyers, John Ki. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Help Find Molly Bish's Killer | Full Episode + Post Mortem"?

The episode runs 1 h 6 min; the transcript is about 9,284 words in 176 timestamped sections.

More from 48 Hours

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.