Parenting through grief, career vs. motherhood, and raising confident kids - with the Abbys

What this episode is about

The discussion centers on the challenges of parenting through personal grief, the tension between career ambitions and motherhood, and the importance of fostering confidence in children. The speakers reflect on societal narratives surrounding motherhood, personal struggles with balancing work and family life, and the emotional journey of connecting with their community while navigating these complexities.

Key takeaways

• Motherhood can feel like a guilt-ridden prison, but it also holds unexpected pockets of joy.
• Grief may cloud presence, yet humor and connection can shine through the darkest times.
• Candidly sharing struggles makes parenting relatable—everyone's just trying to find their groove.
• Launching a podcast felt daunting, but community support transforms pressure into rewarding connections.
• Finding hope in sleepless nights? That’s the true artistry of parenting—embrace the chaos!

Who speaks in this episode?

• Abby (Guest) · 40 min speaking
• Addie (Guest) · 27 min speaking
• Francesca (Guest) · 3 min speaking
• Kamari (Guest) · 3 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Courtney Cook
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Call Her Daddy, Kelsea Ballerini
3. 50:00 – 1:00:00: Francesca, Kamari

Notable quotes from "Parenting through grief, career vs. motherhood, and raising confident kids - with the Abbys"

• Okay., This, Tik, Tok, girl,, her, name's Courtney Cook. She is the cutest gal ever. She looks like a who, which she says is a compliment. not with like her nose. Like she just has the sweetest cutest little like she's just so cute.

  about Courtney Cook · at 9:10

• About goals. It was kind of fun and Tiffy, but this episode Caleb showed me the Kelsey Ballerini song I sit in parks. And I have not cried listening to a song since maybe I was a little child.

  about Kelsea Ballerini · at 13:13

• That, was, when, I, first, knew, her., So,, I think that's when she first became like a more She went on Call Her Daddy and I think that really like pushed her career.

  about Call Her Daddy · at 13:58

• Or three voicemails from listeners. And here is the first one. My name's Francesca and I was wondering what's your best advice for getting motivated to help with my like…

  about Francesca · at 52:18

• Thanks, for, saying, that, that, that question. Hi guys, this is Kamari. I have been watching you all for quite some time. My question is how do you find the strength to keep going as a mother even when you're going.

  about Kamari · at 57:37

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Val — Person · 2 mentions
• Courtney Cook — Person · 1 mention · first at 9:12
• Kelsea Ballerini — Person · 1 mention · first at 13:17
• Francesca — Person · 1 mention · first at 52:24
• Kamari — Person · 1 mention · first at 57:38

Companies & orgs

• Call Her Daddy — Company · 1 mention · first at 14:02

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 I'm not showing up at all for my kids because I'm just so wrapped up in my own grief. There's this narrative to women that being a mother is such a burden and like children are chained. I felt that in the past. This is probably going to get cut, but when I was thinking about pros and cons to getting married, this is unin found out I was pregnant. My business was failing and I was like "Dang, this is just not at all what I pictured my life to be like." It take a long time for newlyweds to catch up.

0:24 You'll, never, catch, up. Oh, my, god., Always, here, to, share, the, hope and, the, heart, with, heart, and, humor.

0:38 Welcome, back, to, Always, Here with, Abby, and, Abby. Is, that, how, we're, going, to, do, it?

0:45 I, like, that. Okay. H, I, feel, like, this, week, has, been, crazy with the launch and the announcement and everything.

0:50 I, know, it's, a, big, week., I'm, really excited about it and we just want to say thank you also so much for all the excitement about it. Um, you guys spoke we listened, and it's been so fun. I literally think about this like all the time. I'm like, the fact that we get to call this working, but it's just hanging out with your sisters and just like having fun. Like, what a blessing this is.

1:11 I, saw, a, comment, that, said, that., They're like, "How fun is it that you guys get to just work and spend time together?" I'm like, "That's so true. It's the best job ever." Oh

1:18 I, feel, like, the, buildup, to, the announcement in the first episode was so, much, work, like, anticipation, figuring everything out like we were super intentional and serious about things

1:29 and, I, felt, this, pressure, and, like, nerves and now that then we announced it and then doing the first episode I was like okay so hopefully it just feels like oh like this breath has been released. I'm ready to get into a rhythm with it and like also just connect with our like community more. Like right now it just feels like this ambiguous like thing but now as we like start to build the community and like people are listening to it, it just makes it so much more rewarding and fun.

1:55 Totally., I, was, uh, I'm, logged, into, the always here email and I've been getting the emails about all the voicemails coming through and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, there's so many that come through." Really?

2:03 Yes. I'm, excited. I'm, excited,, too., Does, that, go, to, your phone Addie? Um,, no., I, just, have, it, on, my, email.

2:08 Oh,, okay., I, was, going, to, say I, have, it., Sorry, about, it., Goes, straight to voicemail so they don't have to wait through like the tones of it and then they get your little jingle.

2:17 Smart., Really, quick,, I, wanted, to, hop, in here to just say we produce this podcast for free to you guys. So, I think it would just be a very kind gesture if you took the time right now, 5 seconds to just hit follow, subscribe, heart, like it. Basically, just show whatever platform you're on that you enjoy our show and that you intend to come back. Um, we would really, really appreciate that. And yeah, here's your five seconds. One, two, three, four, five. Okay, that's all. Thank you so so much. We really, really appreciate it. And thank you in advance. Let's get back to the show. Yeah, I think we like to start off every episode a little bit like just kind of saying what this is for, but our like motto is to share the hope and the hard with heart and humor. And um yeah it'd be fun to share like a little bit of hope and a little bit of something that isn't as fun maybe that we're dealing with

3:09 uh, in, life., And, so, I, have, a, hope,, which I kind of feel bad saying actually. I had like a I had two little versions of me on my shoulder when I was thinking of mine this morning. I was like, it's not nice because I have two sister-in-laws with little babies that probably aren't sleeping. But

3:26 Oh,, no., She's, sleeping, like, a, princess. How, was, that?, I, sleeps, in, a, season, where I'm sleeping really good and it's so I feel guilty saying that guys you can leave it as a hope to your future.

3:37 I, hope, that, you're, sleeping, well., For our sake you should be sleeping. We hope that we we can't we're not sleeping. So we're not doing great.

3:43 That, was, actually, my, heart. So, really, I'm, so, sorry. We're, on, the, same, wavelength.

3:48 I, hate, that., I, think, the, reason, this feels so rewarding though is like knowing

3:53 like, where, I've, been, like, where Oh, yeah., And, it's, funny, just, cuz, like the nature of my children, but it's like my oldest one is always the one that's going to be and he's surely in our room sleeping, with, us,, but, at least, we're sleeping.

4:04 But, at least, you're, sleeping. I, just, hear, the, door, creek, at, like, cuz we have his light set to turn a different color. So he has like several light cues that happen in his room, but it turns blue after 11:30 so we can have like alone time and don't have to go to bed at like 7:00 when he goes to bed. Yeah. But um usually he wakes up somewhere like around 1:00 and I just hear a little our door squeak and he doesn't even say anything. He just scampers into his little mattress on the ground and goes right back to sleep. But because he's with us, he sleeps so late because he's just like I'm just in mom and dad's room. Sometimes he's awake just like

4:38 laying, there., And, then, Auggie, is sleeping in because Griffin's not waking him up.

4:42 Wow. So, Griffin, woke, up, at, 9:20, on, Saturday morning. Did, you, think, he, were, you, like, are, you okay?

4:48 I, didn't, think, he, was, in, there, anymore. I thought Matt had gotten up with him and I was just like

4:51 "Oh, what are you doing?" He was asleep. I was like "Oh, I I I just laid there awake." But so I feel bad saying that but maybe you guys can look to your future.

5:02 Yeah., No,, I, mean,, I, feel, like, with, the newborn stage, it changes so often about it. Yeah. I don't get that sad about it cuz at this point, Vivian's 3 months, she's trying to roll and so the sleep has been really bad.

5:15 They, sleep, so, much, better, when, they, can get on their bellies. Yes,, they, do., Belle, when, she, gets, on, her belly, she cries. She's like, "Really? Get me back over." She sleeps on her side though.

5:24 Kind, of, weird. That's, cute., No,, it's, cute., Yeah., So,, I feel like when they go through those transition or milestone transitions, you just don't sleep very well. So, I know it's I know it's going to be short.

5:34 Three,, four,, and, five,, those, months, are like pretty tricky. Yeah., For, sleep,

5:37 we'll, get, through, it., Yeah,, we'll, get through it. But that was my hard was that the sleep last couple days hasn't been the best. And I feel like this postpartum I'm coming out of a lot of the like hard things and it's been feeling really good but the brain fog has settled in and I just cannot like during the day it's not that bad but in the evenings I start to get tired my thoughts do not form into sentences and I cannot think of words and I'll look at Caleb and I'm like uh what is that thing that I'm trying and I'll like explain it and he'll have to tell me what I'm trying to say. So that has been a little that's just been really hard heavy this week and maybe just because it's been such a busy

6:14 week, with, holidays, and like, the, new, year, and, everything., But yeah,, my, brain, is, not, working.

6:22 That's, tough. Yeah., But, we'll, get,, you, know,, we'll, get through it. It's just a short short.

6:27 My, heart, was, not, that, serious,, but, I just genuinely hate the month of January.

6:32 And, now, that, we're, in, it,, I'm, like I, don't, know, what, it, is., I, just, have, a really hard time like transitioning out of the month of December. I guess like December's so I'm someone that like loves things boom boom boom boom boom and like all exciting and then January always feels like we got to make our own fun

6:50 and, sometimes, kind, of, like, I, just, feel like my motivation's low, my productivity is low. I feel like every single night recently I've just been like

6:57 what, did, I, really, get, done, today?, And I'm just like down on myself at the end of the night every single night and I'm like I don't even like I want to do more but I actually can't get myself to like do more.

7:07 Isn't, that, called, the, post, holiday, blues or something? Because you're you're so expended

7:12 maybe from, the, holidays, and, then, you, get, into the January and you're just exhausted.

7:16 That's, how, I, feel., And, I, want, to, feel, I want to be one of those people that like kickstarts the year like disciplined and I'm like I don't want to. And I think part of it is that I'm not in any kind of routine. like I haven't been going to the gym and I did go to the gym today and I'm like like I feel like I got a little bit like back into me but just in general I need to just suck it up and just like try to find fun things to do in January. I'm planning a shower for Val.

7:41 Oh, my, god. And, so, that's, like, kind, of, getting, me excited. I'm like that's a fun thing to do when like we need to

7:46 Can, I, help, you? Yeah. Okay., Yeah. It's, going, to, be, Valentine's, themed.

7:50 A, little, sweetheart, is, on, the, way. I, was, going to, say, we, should, call, it Valentine's but that's her. That's actually a great idea.

7:57 I, like, it. A, little, sweetheart, is, also, cute. A, little, sweetheart, is, on, the, way. Valentine's Day.

8:03 That's, really, That's, a, cute, That's, a cute theme. I, got, it, from, Pinterest., I, did, not., I'm not creative in that way, like with word play stuff. No.

8:10 No., Me, neither. I'll, leave, it, to, the, Pinterest, people. Fine., Okay., I, want, to, help, you, with that.

8:14 Um, Okay., What's, crazy? Wow. Wait. What's, your, hope? My, hope? Oh,, yeah., Abby., Gosh., Well,, let's, think about this. I only thought about my heart. It's been that hard.

8:26 Yeah., Well,, my, brain, just, isn't, working. We've had so many friends come in town which has been fun. And my parents are back, too. They do the snowbird thing which is so fun. Yeah. And it's sweet. Just

8:37 I, love, anytime, our, parents, or, like, my parents or Kib's parents come in because CJ loves his grandparents so much and it's so helpful when they're in town too. Um, that's definitely been a highlight.

8:47 That's, good. Yeah,, that's, my, that's, my, hope., Okay, should we move on to Wow, that's crazy.

8:51 Wow,, that's, crazy. Wow,, that's, crazy. This has become the new Tik Tok viral sensation and I am currently obsessed.

9:00 I, have, genuinely, no, clue. I, know. We, should, try, it, after, the, episode.

9:04 We, should We'll make a video of us trying. That's a good idea, Addie. Let's do it.

9:10 Okay., This, Tik, Tok, girl,, her, name's Courtney Cook. She is the cutest gal ever. She looks like a who, which she says is a compliment. not with like her nose. Like she just has the sweetest cutest little like she's just so cute. Okay. Anyway, she got famous on Tik Tok. I think she's grown over a million followers within the last month that I've watched. She has over two million followers and she does the craziest lunches and meals of all time, but they're not crazy to her. But I stopped on her videos the first time. It's called a plowman's lunch. She teaches British history, pretty sure. And a plowman's lunch is basically like a a really random shakureri board of stuff like raw vegetables and random chunks of cheeses and breads and boiled potatoes weird onions, and she'll just eat them like really weird onions.

10:02 I, would, like, watch, her, videos, and, I'm like, "This is the most disgusting bizarre combinations of food and like the weirdest way to eat these foods, but I want to do it." And her responses to them are just it's so amazing to watch. the lady who did the chicken sausage and the cottage cheese and mustard.

10:18 Um,, I, don't, know., I, didn't, see, that. Okay. But, maybe, if, that, was, like, Do, you, know?

10:23 No,, but, I, just, put, the, video, on, your iPad so you can take a look at it.

10:27 The, one, that's, gone, really, crazy, is, her sweet potato trend where she she roast a sweet potato and she stuffs cheese inside of it and then just eats it like out of her hand like a hot dog. I don't. It's so crazy.

10:40 What, is, this, cheese? Definitely, butter, cas, cheese., Go, ahead. What, does, she, do, for, work?

10:44 She's, a, teacher. So, cute. So,, she, has, a, whole, series, of, teachers lunches.

10:48 Okay., I'm, not, mad. Oh, my, god. So, cute. No,, it's, so, gross. Had, a, potato, like, this, last, night.

10:56 I, love, that, she, loves, this. She, is, such, an, endearing, person, to watch.

11:01 That, is, the, lunch. That, has, gone, so, viral, and, people, love to watch her eat this. And everyone's trying this concoction of super

11:08 And, do, people, like, it? They, love, it. Yeah. That's, why, I, want, to, try, it., We, should try.

11:11 I, want, to, try, it., We, should, do, it, for, a video. It would be super fun.

11:14 Okay,, let's, try, it. It's, so, And, just, the, way, that, she, eats things. I've been inspired to eat raw vegetables. I'm like, "Oh, I can just eat a bell pepper like an apple. Sure I'll I did it."

11:23 You, did, it? Well,, with, ranch,, but, yeah,, kind, of., No, I did slice it. I didn't eat it like an apple. That's how she eats it.

11:29 She, just, eats, the, most, random, raw vegetables. Like, she'll take green onions. I took a video of it.

11:33 Green, onions. Green, onions., She'll, just E., It's, crazy. I, There, was, a, video, Val,, our, friend, Val, we're talking about her again. She knows about her. Yes. I brought her up and she was like me and her husband or not me her and her husband were watching her videos at night before bed and there was a video of her eating the dumplings at 7:00 a.m. She loves soup dumplings. She puts them in these onion cups and puts soup dumplings in them and then tops them with mayo and soy sauce and seeds and all kinds of stuff. And then she puts the whole onion cup in her mouth and she just goes, "Oh, yeah. Yeah." And you're like, "Oh, I want to eat that."

12:09 Never have I wanted to eat a raw onion cup in my life. This, is, so, funny, to, me., This, is, like, I love I'm fascinated by what people eat but I think this is fascinating. This became a trend.

12:18 Oh,, she's, she's, absolutely, bloomed. Bloomed., She's, not, going, to, be, a, teacher anymore.

12:23 No. All, of, her, food, looks, so, good., I'm looking at her page. It, doesn't, sound, good, eating, plain, green onions. I'm trying to look for that video.

12:30 A, lot, of, British, foods., So,, it's, a, lot of stuff that I've never heard of. It's just so random. But she's just such bizarre combinations that I want to try.

12:39 Gosh,, you, guys, got, me, sold., And, the comments are always hilarious. They're like, "Yeah, this is what I eat when I'm trying to clean out my fridge." Or, you know, the leftovers. That's just how

12:47 she, said,, "I, just, know, that, no, food, is wasted in your household." Literally.

12:51 Well,, that's, funny. I, know. I, want, to, try, it. She, is, the, I'm, always, like,, "Uh,, got, to stop. My TV show's on." That's how I feel with her. But

12:58 really?, Yeah. That's, fun., I, like, that. That's, wholesome. That's, our, Wow., That's, crazy.

13:03 That, is, crazy., This, is, what, she, eats. It's truly crazy. It's, truly, crazy., The, next, segment, that I thought we could talk about this is like I feel like last episode we talked about goals. It was kind of fun and Tiffy, but this episode um Caleb showed me the Kelsey Ballerini song I sit in parks. And I have not cried listening to a song since maybe I was a little child. This song is so beautiful and I feel like it's just such a good conversation for us to have. Yeah. You listen to the song?

13:32 Yeah., you, sent, it, to, me, and, you, were like, I haven't cried since listening to this. So, I was like, I'm scared. I My immediate reaction was like, I'm not going to listen to it cuz if you cry then it's going to make me cry. But I listened to it and it didn't make me cry, but it is like I was just blown away by her

13:45 what's, the, word, I'm, going, to, say?, I, was going to say humility, but like yeah vulnerability in this like in writing a song like this, especially from like some So, okay. So, she made her career huge basically. Is this true from her divorce album?

13:58 That, was, when, I, first, knew, her., So,, I think that's when she first became like a more She went on Call Her Daddy and I think that really like pushed her career.

14:07 Well,, wasn't, Caller, Daddy, recently? No,, she, went, on, when, they, got, her divorce which was a while ago.

14:13 Oh,, okay. So,, since, that, was, like, her, divorce, was such a big part of like her like rising to fame. I think this song comes as like

14:22 it's, even, more, impactful, then because, Okay., So,, wait., Should, you, play the song or do you want to Yeah

14:28 I, don't, think, we, can, play, the, song. We, can't, play., I, do, want, to, listen, to, it again just to have like the fresh thoughts from it. But I Let's just play it and we can keep talking about it. Don't cry right now. I literally I listened to it this morning again and I almost cried again.

14:40 Oh, my, gosh., I, know., I've, never, touched like that. I, am., Gosh., I, know.

14:50 I, feel, like, But, the, first, time, I, heard it, the first time I heard it, I was like, "Dang, I feel so sad and grateful at the same time."

14:58 Mhm., That, is, such, a, a, honest, and, shoot, it's gonna make me cry. And, maybe, it's, like, being, almost, 30, and having two kids, it's like, man, I just feel grateful. I think it just put into perspective like, dang, these are the years.

15:18 Mhm. And, like, I, have, two, kids, and, I, take, him to the park with Caleb and like it just feels like this really sweet time of my life. And I was like, wow, I'm very grateful for that. I'm also sad that like these years are short

15:31 with, the, little, kids,, but, also, like, I felt very sad that I do feel like there's this narrative to women that being a mother is such a burden and like you can't live this like amazing life and like children are chains.

15:48 And, she's, like, that, the, line, about um, do, they, look, at, me, and, want, my freedom as much as I want to be a mother? Mhm.

15:55 And, I'm, like,, "Dang.", Like, I', I've, felt that in the past. Like, Caleb,, but, I, Let, me, get, it, together for a second.

16:03 Mhm. Um, like, when, we, found, out, that, we, were pregnant with CJ, my oldest, that was a very much a surprise. I was 26 when I got pregnant. I had started a business that I had ran for 5 years with him. Um that Caleb had come on and joined. And at the time that I got pregnant, like the business was failing. I had all these big goals and dreams. I was like I'm going to be a businesswoman. All this stuff. So, I had like found out I was pregnant. My business was failing. And I was like, dang, this is just not at all what I pictured my life to be like. And I felt scared. I felt um Yeah. I just felt a lot of these things.

16:41 And now I look back and I'm like, dang I'm so glad that, we, were, able, to, start, our, family when we did.

16:47 Mhm. Yeah., I, just, I, felt, all, those, emotions. Yeah., when, I, heard, that.

16:53 Yeah., I, think, the, thing, that, like, I respect the most in her writing this song is that she first of all I think in today's like culture it's very like frowned upon if someone changes their mind on things. I don't really understand why that is or if other people feel that way but if people are like you hypocrite it's like yeah we all like change our minds or we evolve or we you know wish we would have done things differently. I feel like regret is also something that is like kind of like you're not supposed to have regrets which obviously like you can't let your regrets like hold like chain you back or hold you down. But I think it's really admirable that she's willing to just like publicly be like

17:32 yeah, I I'm, wondering, if, I, made, the, right decision or like everyone can look at me and like envy where I'm at right now but do they know that I'm envying them

17:42 back?, And, I, think, that, takes, a, lot, of that takes so much bravery. And it's

17:47 it's, also, I, think, the, other, thing, that the thing that stood out to me most in listening to this song is that her acknowledging that like her decision had a cost

17:54 because, I, feel, like, a, lot, of, the, times this this maybe is an American thing probably where it's like you can have it all, you can be it all, you can do it all. And I feel like this messaging is I I hear it more geared towards like moms like you can do it all, you can have it all, you can have the career, you can be the best mom, you can do all these things. And I also think that women have a unique pressure to to like I feel like just naturally, I don't know if everyone feels this way, but like there's always this like quiet voice that's like you're not enough, you're not doing enough you're not

18:25 you, know,, meeting, the, standards, that, you need to do, like there's more you can do and comparison, all this stuff. And so her acknowledging like every decision has a cost is refreshing. I told you when we started talking when you sent that song to me, it reminded me of Danny Austin who's like another creator and also like mega business owner. Her admitting that she like in her own words she said something about like how she blew up her life like trying to have it all.

18:50 And, for, me, as, a, listener, hearing, that, it felt like a deep sigh of relief because it's just not true that you can have it all.

18:59 And, it, doesn't, mean, that, one, decision, is right and one decision is wrong. doesn't mean that career is wrong and motherhood immediately is right or vice versa. Totally. Like it just means that there's a cost and you have to kind of weigh those constantly. And I feel like that's what motherhood is with like we're both working moms and I feel like I'm always kind of on this teeter totter of like how do we balance that and like what and which

19:23 like, what, cost, is, too, great, where, we need to make adjustments and then this benefit I'm not seeing it here so then we got to make adjustments the other way., I, don't, know if, that, makes, sense.

19:30 No,, it, makes, a, lot, of, sense., Yeah,, I would agree. It's so the balance is hard and I feel like I was I was totally bought that live like oh I can have it all as a kid and I feel like I I um reached for that for a really long time and I don't know I think I get sad hearing that video because I think that there is that narrative that like women think oh my life we've talked about this before but my life is going to stop when I have kids

20:00 and, I, don't, think, that, that's, true, at all you know it like looks different and like you're saying we have to adjust things, around, but, I, don't know, it's, like man the the my life has started when I had kids and like even with work it's like being a mom has made me more efficient it's made me work harder it's made me want to like balance my time better like I feel like all around having kids having a job like a healthy marriage all these things like has forced me to become a better well-rounded woman and I'm so grateful for that

20:29 and, yeah, it's, not, like, oh, I, can, go, be I I don't know. It's so hard. I don't know what I'm trying to say.

20:35 No,, I, think, it, makes, sense., And, also hearing from your perspective too, like you were career driven at one point. You had these like high aspirations in like the career area and like you still do

20:46 but, it's, like, I, almost, feel, like, there's maybe two different people listening to this podcast cuz for me like I actually never had career ambitions. Like I did before I got married and then I feel like when I got married I was just like well when are we having kids? cuz then I like can't I felt like you said it. I felt like I couldn't start my life until I had kids cuz that was like kind of like my like tunnel vision.

21:09 Like, I, was, like, got, to, have, kids,, got, to have kids. It's like I don't know what I literally was just made that way. Like literally in high school I remember just being like

21:17 whose, babies, can, I, watch, like, all, the time and I just felt like I couldn't get like I feel like that time three years of after getting married I was just like which isn't a good place to be either. Like I feel like there's a a good thing to be said about like contentment and also just like yeah enjoying early marriage and not like rushing into all that stuff, but

21:36 like, because, I, didn't, have, like, huge career ambitions, I feel like it's, like, women, have, to, decide,, right? Like what are you going to do? You going to, be, a, mom, or, you, going to, be, a, working lady? Like and it's like oh gosh.

21:48 Totally. That's, a, tough, place, to, be., And, then, I feel like a lot of women too like they they go into the career field and they're like really excited and passionate about it. they get pregnant have a baby, and then they're like, I actually don't care about any of that anymore. And so, like, there's that too.

22:02 Totally. There's, so, many, different, aspects, of, it. But, um, on the angle of like being a working mom, I thought like I used to something Sadie Robertson actually once totally changed this around for me. But I used to feel every time I like had to do something for work and be away from the kids, I would like literally try to condense everything jam-packed, which I already condense it to part-time, but like I would literally like be like "Okay, maybe what can I get done in one hour like and try to get everything done?" And then I would just be super stressed the whole time and like try to never be away and like I would felt really guilty like my my default is kind of like going towards guilt. Usually I'm like I'm not doing a good enough mom not doing enough for them. And something she said is like I'm going to butcher it so I'm not even going to try to quote it, but something about like taking

22:45 pride in what you do for work can gives your kids confidence too and, how, like, that, can, also, serve, them. So now when I talk about it, I'm very intentional. I'm like, I'm going to go work and you're going to do fun stuff like with grandma, like things like that. And then now they talk to me about it. They're like, "Oh, you're going to go to work and I'm going to play with honey or I'm going to go like do this activity." I'm like, "Yeah." And I think it's really cool that my kids also can see me as their mom having this role in providing for the family and like also like we talk about the purpose of work and like working hard too. And I feel like it's good that they see their mom having this role as well. Well, not that it's only in the career realm, but also like within the house, but I don't know.

23:24 It's it's helped me just like be more intentional with my work and my role as a mom and like how I talk about it more because I felt like really weird like I had to like be vague about it. Like I was like, I'll be right back. Like I was now I'm just like, "Oh, I'm going to go work." And I don't know. I just feel like for some reason that didn't click for me in the beginning.

23:42 Totally., I, get, why, like, there's, so, many I I get why there's so many opinions across the board of this and I understand why women want to wait especially like if you go to school, you go to higher education, you spent all this time and money and then you go into the career field and it's like

23:57 I, don't, want, to, just, blow, all, that, away cuz I think people do, probably, assume, that, like, once, they have kids they won't want to work anymore

24:04 and, that, will, shift, in, their, life, and, I understand that is like a really hard thing for women to like tussle with and like make that decision on. Um, but then yeah, there's also the flip side of the coin where like we have these jobs where we can work from home, which is nice and like we can kind of do our hours how we need to to like focus on our family the most. But it is hard when these early years like you these are the what do they say like your kids are most impressionable from one to three. That's when you have the most influence on their life or one to five. So it's like you want to give them as much as you can in these first three to five years. So I get why that's hard where women want to wait where they're like "Okay, I've done the career thing. I want to do it."

24:43 But then I feel this like sadness for a lot of women that do wait and then there are like complications or, you know different things. And it's like you never want to say that in a way that's going to fear monger women into like wanting to have kids earlier or whatever. But

24:55 it's, just, like, a, reality, of, things sometimes. And I just feel like I know a lot of women that have pushed off um starting a family and like could have the opportunity to make it work well. And sometimes I just wonder I'm like "Dang, are they going to be sad about that decision later?" Which it's okay you know? But I just feel like we have been sold this slide like, "Oh, just wait. Just wait. Just wait. Just wait." And like I feel like I've thought that like I always thought I'd wait till like a 30s to have kids

25:22 and, like, do, the, career, thing, for, a, long time. I just feel so grateful that that wasn't the case because I feel like I have been able to fortunately figure out a way to do both, like have work and be a mom. And I feel like it's just it's been the greatest gift of all my life.

25:38 Yeah., I, don't, know., I, just, feel, sad, for women that that it is like a hard choice. It is. It's super hard.

25:43 Well,, and, I, think, on, the, flip, side, of, it too is that I think like people waiting to have kids or people are also waiting to get married which

25:49 we, obviously, didn't., And, I, like, have just been that also started the conversation of like young marriage like where it was like okay cuz also she's not married anymore and like when she says like god damn it he loves her. I feel like there's like this like

26:05 longing, to, like, what, was, the, quote there's some podcast that Matt and I always talk about where someone's like marriage is like choosing someone to be a witness to your life

26:16 and, and, we, I, just, like, think, about, that a lot. I'm like, that's how do I say this?

26:22 It, would, just, It'd, be, hard, for, you, to imagine. It'd, be, hard, for, me, to, imagine, like going through life without someone intimately knowing everything that's happening, my thoughts, like what I'm going about in my day. Gosh, like what my one-stop shake order is. Like it's like someone that just like knows you so intimately like one person

26:39 that, like, that, would, probably, feel, I could imagine that where that could feel lonely where it's like it's not even the fact that he like

26:47 he, like, this, this, family, she's, looking at that he loves her but that like he knows her and that they're like in each other's lives. I don't know. And so I don't know where I'm going with this but

26:59 just, thinking, about, like, life,, how, it looks so differently depending, on, when, you, enter, into marriage.

27:06 Yeah. Because, I, mean, we're, very, I, got, married at 20, which is crazy saying that

27:13 but, um just, thinking, about, how Matt, and, I, were, actually, just, talking about this. I was like, Matt, I literally know you so well. I was like I literally remember when you were a kid and I saw you become a man and you saw me go from like become a woman and we've have like

27:30 this, insane, library, of, memories, together that like I can't imagine even now at 27. How old am I?

27:39 I, don't, know., This, is, actually, real., I stopped aging at 25 in my head. I, stopped, aging, at, 23,, which, is, much, too young to stop aging.

27:46 Every, time, I'm, like,, well,, I'm, 25, and I'm like, nope. I, know., I, keep, telling, people, I'm, young 20s and they're like I'm literally 29. I was the oldest 20 you could possibly be.

27:55 The, oldest, 20. You're, the, oldest, 20. The, young. But, I, was, like, the, the, fact, that, like, we have some friends that are single and they're dating right now. Like gosh they have to fill them in on like

28:06 you, also, can't, really that's, there's, something, so, unique, about like having that type of

28:13 history, by, that, age, that, it's, like, it's really special. Like totally., So, that's, not, to, say, one's right or one's wrong. Like I feel like this is just something that is like unique about young marriage. It's like gosh, we literally have

28:27 so, much, history. Yeah. Like, by, the, age, of, 27. Totally. Which, is, wild., I, guess, what, I, imagine who we're speaking to right now are those people that are like they've been dating for 5 years. They know they're going to get married, but they put the brakes on. I'm like just get married. Start your life. Like get married, have kids. Like make you can make it work. Like I feel like that's my charge and I feel like that's there's obviously a million perspectives on this discussion and they're not all there's no right or wrong but like that's my point of view.

28:55 I'm like dang just do it because it's so fun to like live your life with someone. It's so fun to have kids. It's just such a special um I don't know. It's just such a special

29:05 It's, really, rewarding. It's, so, rewarding., And, like, obviously people look at marriage and kids as like such a sacrifice because it is totally but making those sacrifices also has like a way of like refining you as a person where it's like

29:19 I, don't, know, it, has, completely, changed how I view so like honestly everything in life both of those things

29:26 and, it's, just, a, it's, just, a, practice every single day and selflessness and I think that's the thing that we have to counteract the most as humans. I feel like our nature is like very selfish which kind of have to be. Gosh, there's probably some evolutionary reason like you had to be selfish if you're a pack. But anyway, like just it is a practice every single day in like selflessness that is

29:51 really, good, and, also, it's, healthy, too. Like I don't know. I, respect, Kelsey, in, this, song., I'm, like, I'm sure she'd made that decision to like get divorced, to not have kids because she wanted to pursue being selfish for a little bit and her dream and like she knew it'd be a cost like she wouldn't be able to have a child important to a child.

30:08 No,, it, makes, sense., Like, that, was, the cost. She, was, like, weighed, it, and, she, was like "Yeah

30:13 this, isn't, what, I, want, down, the, line." Totally. And, well,, that's, what, she, thought., And actually, I noticed in this that listening to that song again, she literally says what I want.

30:22 She, It's, like, she, changed, like, she, just fully changed her mind. She said that's what she wants.

30:26 Totally. Which, is, interesting., Do, we, know, what her ex-husband's up to? Um,, he's, dating, a, new, person, now, and, she was just dating Chase Stokes. They recently broke up.

30:34 Um,, the, guy, from, Outer, Banks. Yeah., They, dated, for, like, two, years. Oh,, dang.

30:39 Um,, and, an, interesting, thing, is, that, she froze her eggs. So, she when she was married to her ex-husband.

30:49 Oh. So,, I, think, she, was, always, planning, to have kids a little later or maybe he didn't. I don't know that when they were planning on having kids, but she froze her eggs. So, that's also interesting in relation to the song is that she has

31:02 eggs., When, you're, thinking, about, getting older, having those eggs, but not being ready to like get pregnant yet, I guess.

31:10 That, might, be, another, thing., People, are having kids later because they know they can freeze their eggs. Like, that's a more common thing now.

31:17 Wait,, why, are, you, Wait,, they, I'm, dumb. Am, I, Am, I, dumb? So,, wait., If, you, No,, no,, no., So,, you can't have kids though after you've gone through menopause

31:26 right?, No., Uhuh. Even, if, you've, frozen, your, eggs? Yeah., No., Because But, are, they, thinking, that, these, eggs are healthier eggs because they're like younger eggs than when they would have them in their

31:34 Yeah., Well,, it's, like, as, you, get, older every year, you have less eggs. So, maybe, if, you, have, you're, having trouble getting pregnant, you can use your old your frozen eggs.

31:42 Yeah., So, they, don't, have, to, do, an, egg retrieval then and then start that.

31:45 Well,, you, just, don't, you, know,, you aren't women born with the amount of eggs that they always have? Like we're born in the womb we're created? one

31:53 a, month., But, no,, it's, like, your, body, has multiple but only one gets frozen.

31:58 She, froze, her, eggs, when, she, turned, 30. I, just, think, when, people, go, through, IVF,

32:02 this, actually, brings, up, a, bigger conversation that, we, don't, know, anything, about, women.

32:05 Yeah,, I, don't, think, we, drop, multiple eggs, but No, we don't drop multiple eggs, but like when people do IVF in their cycle and they can extract multiple, it's like, oh, they might have 11 this cycle and then like 50 the next

32:16 like, that, are, available. Is, that, not, right? Viable., I, don't, know., But

32:22 see,, this, is, something, we, also, need, to work on. You, have, more, when, you're, younger., Okay.

32:25 So,, if, you, freeze, them,, you, have, a higher chances of them being successful later on.

32:29 Okay., Well,, that's, that, is, interesting. Well, I guess 32., She's, 32., Yeah., She, she, can, still, do this thing. Totally.

32:37 She, just, has, to, find, the, person, that, she wants to have kids. Something, Kill, I, talk, about, a, lot because my mom and dad were much older when they had kids. My mom started she had my older sister at 30, waited 5 years, had me at 35, and then had my little sister when she was almost 40. So they like really space him out and stuff. But

32:52 your, mother, looks, great. Yeah,, I, did, not, realize, my, dad, turned, 70 this year.

32:57 Wow. Uhuh., Wait,, that's Yeah., No,, I'm, sorry., He's, 69, this, year. He'd be really sad if I said that.

33:03 Um, but, yeah,, there, I, have, older, older parents on the older side and like Kil were talking about this. if we want four kids and we didn't want to do four under four and I was 31 32 like that just really changed your timeline on things because I'm like I don't want to be pregnant back to back to back to back if I want to have any space and time in there. You think you're pregnant for nine months then you're postpartum for a year that's a long time you know and then maybe you want to like have a little bit, of, an, age, gap, between, your kids. So I think that's something that I don't know I didn't think about before having kids, you know, like

33:33 it, comes, quick. It, comes, so, fast, and, those, years, are not, you know, if you start having kids later, you're probably I think that's why the average of kids has gone down. Like most families just have two.

33:41 Yeah., Probably, because, they, start, later. So, getting, married, the, average, for, men is 30 and women is 28.

33:49 That's, younger, than, I, thought, it, was going to, be. Two., Yeah. That's, a, as, of, 2023. In 1960, it was at 22 for men and 20 for women. So, it's changed that much since.

34:01 Oh, my, goodness,, that's, crazy., Wow. Um, that's, crazy. The, average, age, for, women, for, their first birth in 2023 was 27.

34:12 Okay., Okay., That's, when, I, That's, when, I gave birth. You, were, the, average, talking, about, you guys. I'm literally the culture.

34:18 In, 1970s,, it, was, 21. So,, it's, changed, since, since, then., I also think one interesting thing about you guys is you both are married to your high school sweetheart. And you know what percentage that is? It's about 2% of people get married to their high school sweetheart

34:34 man. And, so, you, guys, both, of, the, 2%, of America. You, guys, are, both, in, that, situation, which is interesting. So you dated your husband for a long time. You've been with him for a while.

34:44 Yeah., 12, years, for, Caleb, and, I., I, feel like I have to be careful sometimes talking about these subjects because I do feel like I've been very privileged in this area.

34:51 Like, I, lack, perspective. Yeah., Yeah,, I'm, like, I, definitely probably lack

34:54 just, marry, them. I, know., Love, them, have, kids, early,, you, know,, like, dating, you know, but I understand dating is super hard.

35:02 That, means, we, could, bring, up, the, the cons of dating and marrying young. I got some cons.

35:08 I, feel, like, I, went, through, a, little, bit of an identity crisis. I feel like it hit right after we had our first kid where I was like

35:17 I, just, remember, one, morning, I, was, like, I like my eggs scrambled and I was like it was like a big proclamation because we had been eating over easy eggs for like 2 years and I was like I like them scrambled and I was just like and I like cheese. Like I just started to think of like all the things where I was like man we have just like I have adapted and like grown around you so much and him vice versa but where I was like gosh where would I be independent of you? Like what decisions would I have made? Like and I think that it's not like it's it's not like oh gosh the grass is greener on the other side of this but it did come to a point where I was like my gosh I've literally become an adult with you. Mhm.

36:02 Like, I, formed, around, you,, we, formed around each other. Like what would I be like? What in this alternate life? Like what would I even be like?

36:10 And, so, I, feel, like, it, did, kind, of, cause like a little bit of like what is happening? Like what do I like? Where do I like what is happening? Like I don't know. And so I do think that other people that get married young feel this way too because I feel we brought it up on a podcast one time and I think other people were like yeah like that's great and it's awesome but then there's certain times where I'm just like what would I what would I have been like if I had been single in my 20s until I was like at least the average of like 28.

36:33 What was it? 27. I, can't, even, imagine, that. I, can't, imagine, it, either. I, don't, know, who, I, would, be.

36:39 That's, what, that's, what, made, me, spiral. That, I, don't, want, to, think, about, that actually. No, but it did kind of I was like, I like my eggs scrambled and then it was just like so interesting. I was like, you know, and then I started to think I was like, I don't cook with cheese cuz I live with you.

36:53 And, I, I, just, started, to, think, I, was like, we live we do this for our job. We live here. We And I and it was like we had agreed on all of those decisions together and like we were excited about them, but it just comes I feel like there was a time where it just like all caught up to me. I was like, what would I be like?

37:07 Totally. And, I, think, that, that, is, something interesting. Yeah., A, pro, is, that, it, was, really, easy to adjust to marriage. Yeah.

37:15 Because, we, didn't, know, any, different., We never lived independently. You, didn't, have, an, identity.

37:20 We, had, no, money., We, had, no, money., And, so like the financial transition, the life transition was actually really easy. Like I don't remember having any like major hiccups cuz I was just like "Yeah."

37:32 Yeah., You, didn't, have, any, like, routines that you were set in or Yeah. You weren't set stable job that I was like I need to be here for this job. Like we were just very flexible. Like everything was I was in college like everything was so flexible at that time. Everything was so low stakes whereas like say I had been with my job and they're like wanting to transfer me to a different state

37:51 and, I, was, like, m, like, that, would, have been like, a, a, logistical, problem, more, than anything. But and then you do have to make decisions like what's more important at this point. And so like everything was just really low stakes at that point. So that was a really easy transition. Uh-huh.

38:07 I, was, like,, "Yeah,, if everything's, bad, for, sure.", I, was, going, to, say, the, same similar thing. I We have a very high tolerance for risk, Caleb and I do because our whole 20s were just risky. Like, we had nothing. We didn't have careers. We didn't, you know, like stable careers. We just had no money which was a con. It was just a con. I remember I was listening to some of your unplanned podcast episodes and you were talking about how disciplined we were with our money, and I was like "We just had no choice. We just had no choice." And so that was a con, but there are so many pros to that too where I feel like

38:40 we, did, have, a, choice, though., A, lot, of people go into serious debt. Yes,, we, did, have

38:44 So, you, did, have, a, choice. Thank, you., We, also, did, have, a, choice, to get normal jobs and we chose not to. So we did choose to stay poor. If you're curious, we used to have a clothing boutique that I started in college and then Caleb and I ran that together and that was five years. I kind of touched on that earlier. And then we had a really bad uh like season where we lost all the money. And yeah, it was really hard. There was a year we made combined $37,000

39:11 combined. That's no money. That was really low. It was hard in, Kansas, City,, Missouri.

39:17 Um, No,, that, was, when, we, lived, in Phoenix. That's why we had to move because we couldn't afford our rent.

39:22 Even, more Yeah., bad. It, was, really, Yeah., High, living,, low income. Dang, it., But, we, we, learned, so, much, from those experiences and I feel like that helped shape us as we become adults. We're like not afraid to take risks because we lived these lives where yeah it was low stake or we kind of

39:39 had, to, make, hard, decisions, a, lot, of the times and if we lost everything we had we knew that we'd be okay like we could figure it out. Um it kind of made us a little scrappy.

39:50 Uhhuh., So,, I, feel, like, there, are, so, many fun things like that. But I think

39:52 and, I, think, you, build, so, much, trust. Like you're not going to take risks with someone that you don't trust. But like when you have all this history, it's like you've shown up for me every time. Like we can do this together and like you know that

40:05 you, know, your, person's, going, to, be, with you and going to be along for the ride no matter what. Totally.

40:09 Like, that's, a, major, advantage, too. Totally., Yeah., We, didn't, have, those, 20s where we like go and travel the world and do all these fun Instagram things but hopefully we get that in our 30s.

40:20 We, said, we're, going, to, go, clubbing, when we're empty nesters. We'll go with you.

40:25 So, are, wildest. The, Ellen, Pompeo, video,, I, kind, of, just wrote out exactly what she said. I think it's actually really sweet what she says. Yeah. So yeah, I'll say it.

40:33 Wait,, what's, Ellen, Pompeo? Um, Grey's, Anatomy. Oh,, that's, what, you, said.

40:37 Yeah,, that's, what, she, said., I, wrote, it out um because I thought it was I listened to it and I was like, "Wow this is like really cool." Especially being a new mom on my end. But um especially being a working mom and figuring out how to do that. Um you cannot be a mother and have children and give 100% to your job. It is a part of you that is somewhere else. You split into different pieces. You are no longer just you. You know what it does? It gives you more soul, richer, funnier more empathetic, angrier. It gives you a range of emotions you can't even imagine having without this person. You will be yourself times a thousand. You will just be a better version of yourself. It doesn't matter that you can't give 100% to this because by the way we are as women, we evolve. But if it's something that you want, it will only make you better. I am so much better for having children.

41:23 That's, so, good., I, feel, like, she, kind, of clarified what we were saying about you can't have it all. Like you can't give a 100% of your all to work and do like the crazy grind hustle culture culture and give 100% to your kids. Like there's got to be a give and a tank and a take. I do think like obviously we're examples of you could be working moms.

41:38 And, I, know, a, ton, of, women, like, I, know women that in med school that have had kids and families and like they make it work, you know?

41:44 Yeah., I, mean, my, mom, was, a, full-time working mom my entire life. Yes. And, I, think, of, her, as, nothing, but present and attentive to our needs. Like

41:51 Yeah., Totally. It's, not, But, yeah, you, just, have, there's, going, to, be, gives with work and your your number one cannot be your job. I feel like when you have kids

42:00 it's, cuz, we're, limited., Like, you're literally just you cannot Yes. I, think, that's, one, thing, you, said, to Abby too is you said that your marriage is above your career too. Yes. Your kids are above your career, but your marriage also is as well.

42:11 Yeah., That, was, actually, something, that the we brought up when we were talking about the song too is that Matt and I consciously like we so we went into college to be theater performers actors, whatever that meant. And we I was just laughing about that this morning cuz I was like, Matt realistically things were going to change anyway. But early on, we're like, you know, this is like what we were going to school for. Like this was the dream, right? And so then after one semester, we had talked to like a lot of our professors, which a lot of them had ended up going into teaching like acting or whatever their their class was or subject was because they were like, "Yeah, I wanted to have kids and I wanted to have a family." or like they were like I toured I was in a tour in Asia and my partner was over overseas for nine months a year and we were just like oh like

43:02 that's, that's, pretty, that's, I, don't, know if we wanted to make that sacrifice and so very consciously after one semester we were like

43:08 yeah, it's, more, important, that, we're together and we can prioritize us and like we already knew then that we wanted to get married and like soon so we're like we want to just prioritize this marriage like our marriage over career and I I think it was really good for us to make that decision really early on because it just made everything else really easy honestly. And let me tell you, people were like worried in my life like Abby, you're going to give this up. Like this is like you really like you've done this since you were in second grade. Like you were really like shooting for this. And I just remember just being like I didn't I didn't grieve it. Which that doesn't mean that some people won't make sacrifices that they were like this was hard and I really miss it. And like to this day, like I still love theater and I still like miss like Matt and I saw Wicked live and nobody told you that. We like literally

43:54 sobbed both of us when the opening number came in because it just like brought something awake inside of us. We're like I like miss that passion that time of our lives. But like to consciously make that

44:05 handoff, early, on, like, it, was, pretty different and I think people were like what? But it made everything really easy because we're like well yeah that's if that's the cost I don't want to pay it. And yeah, I think that a lot of things in life are like that. Yes. So that to say like me saying like you can't have it all is like you cannot you yourself are 100%. You can't give 100% to everything. And if you do, you're just going to feel

44:31 like, you're, just, going, to, constantly, be beating yourself up. Yeah. That, doesn't, mean, you, don't, work., That doesn't mean you don't have kids. That just means that you are constantly

44:38 in, this, tension., Totally., And, that's part of it. I, don't, know, why, that, feels, like controversial to say

44:44 really., I, don't, know., I, don't, I, mean, I don't think it is, but I feel like people would be like if I say you're a mom, you shouldn't give 100% to your job over your kids. Like I feel like that is like a universally like if the man was like I'm a workaholic and he doesn't give a time to his kids. I think everyone would be like you're a jerk.

44:59 But, then, when, a, mom, when, a, woman, wants to say that I feel like people are like

45:03 no, work,, you, could, do, it., You, know what I mean? It's like Yeah,, that's, true.

45:07 And, I, just, don't, actually, think, that that's normal. Yeah. Do, you, know, what, I, I, feel, like, I, feel like I'm navigating that right now of like working and being I actually feel the most guilty when I'm with her and working rather than her being with someone else. I'm like it's so I feel so much better when I know she's with someone who can give them their full attention and hang out with her and play with her and then I can give my full attention to work for a little bit of time and then I feel so much better on all aspects.

45:33 I, think, it's, cuz, they're, so, little, they don't understand that like exactly what's happening. So it's like why is my mom here and like not playing with me? Like I think about that sometimes and I feel like now just like having that conversation I'm just like I'm working and like then they're like super good with it.

45:48 Yes. Um, but, yeah,, I, think, that's, just, a tension that I'll live in. Constantly be evaluating and that's okay and it's going to change and it's going to look differently. But to summarize this like Abby was saying if you're dating and you're like you just picture your whole life with this person and you're just like no just not the right time or like I need to do X Y and Z first. I don't know. I think the timeline is here nor there. I remember that being a huge thing when we got married because everyone's, like,, "You, have, to, at least graduate college first."

46:20 And, I, was, like,, "No,, we're, not, going to." And yeah, Matt, never, graduated., So,

46:27 we, would, still, not, be, married. I, never, felt, ready., Like,, I, did, not, feel ready to have kids and then I had kids and I was like, "Oh, you just get ready.

46:35 You, just, figure, it, out., You, make, it work." And so, if that's your thing where you're just like, "I just don't feel ready. Don't feel ready." Just have trust in yourself that you are resilient and you can do it. And if that's something you want in the future, my encouragement is to just pull the trigger.

46:49 Yeah., And, it's, and, having, kids, is actually great. Like I feel like there's a lot of

46:54 that's, the, thing, that's, hard., I, keep, I keep quoting these other things, but remember the thing that was like huge with like Chapel Ran

47:01 which, I, hope, she, and, they, don't, mean, any hate to her, but I honestly think

47:04 I, just, disagreed, with, her,, but Well,, no., She, said, all, of, her, friends that had kids young or something like that or were miserable. And I think that it's just so interesting because that's like her perspective of like looking in as like and I think that also can reflect on like us as young moms. Like how are we presenting to people that don't have kids?

47:22 Yeah. Like, it's, not, totally, on, her,, right? Like if you're if you're griping and moaning about it in front of people that don't have kids, like that's not

47:30 that's, not, a, good, thing, to, do., Like honestly, like there's a time and a place to be like this is really hard right now. like we're in a stage where we're not sleeping. That's really really hard and you should have space to say that. I think that community is with other moms and I think that's really great. And it's not that you can't say that, but it's just like the messaging should be positive first

47:47 and, like, this, is, awesome, and, super rewarding. And I'm sure those moms are like, "Yeah, I'm sure they're exhausted but I'm sure if you she were to come back and talk to them like

47:56 "Do, you, think, you, made, a, mistake?, Like, do you regret it?" It would be absolutely not. I know.

48:00 And, so, maybe, those, conversations, could be a little bit more redeeming. I don't know. Like that's a good point. Abby I get so frustrated online when I'm scrolling on the reels and it's just people dogging on their kids like in a humorous way. I'm like yeah these jokes are funny or like um it'll be a video of a kid doing something crazy like smearing poop, you know, something that is really gross and really hard and like does sometimes happen and the comments are this was great birth control. This was great. I'm like that's not the point.

48:26 Yeah., Cuz, you, can't, control, that audience at that point. Yeah., And, I'm, like, dang., I, just, I, never I that's if that's what people think kids are smearing poop and an inconvenience to your life like that sucks, you know? It's like that's not the message that we want. And because that's not true.

48:40 Yeah. So, yeah,, it's, like, you, can, share, those stories with your friends and your family and like other moms, but

48:45 to, people, that, aren't, moms,, it's, like man, think about how they take that stuff.

48:49 Yeah. Learn, and, adapt., Like, it's, so interesting. Even like over the holidays, you're car, you have a baby you're going in and out, naps are crazy all these things. And what did we do yesterday? We were like, "Okay, we're not going to go to this thing because our daughter needs to nap." You know and you just learn and adapt and it's not miserable. Like

49:08 totally. I, guess, it's, just, everyone's perspective. Also,, baby, years, are, short., I, feel, like people forget that. Like the nap stage is short.

49:14 We're, still, functioning., Like, you, see us, we're talking. We're alive. You You aren't, going to, go, tell, someone, at, the supermarket, I'm not sleeping. Like we still your body adapts as a mom.

49:24 Yeah., I, I, just, people, always, think, that like the baby stage is forever and it's like uh no offense but in three years the kids not going to nap and then in five, years, they're, going to, be, in, school and, you're, not, going to, see, them., So

49:32 I, don't, know, like, you're, going to, have your life back in a couple years. You know what, I, mean?, I'm, like, not, dropping them off.

49:37 Kids, are, so, inconvenient. I, am, not, dropping, them, off, at, school. It's, just, like, I, don't, know., I'm, like it's just such a short time that we're inconvenienced in the greatest time of our life.

49:48 Yeah., And, also,, gosh,, I, can't I can't say this and not think about someone that's like struggling with infertility or like going through a loss too.

49:58 So,, like,, not, to, say, like, this, is, like the end all be all or like your life can't start until that next thing happens. So

50:04 no, there's, so, many, people, listening, to, this and I just had to think about that, too. Like,

50:09 thanks, for, saying, that., Like, there's, so much joy in where you're at now and, it, can, feel, like, everything, has, to be on pause until that next thing happens or this thing or this stage enters or like maybe motherhood feels like this club that you're just not ever going to be a part of or like it's just really hard

50:24 and, so, all, to, say, I'm, like, I'm, thinking about you too like it's a great

50:30 Yeah,, that, must, be, hard. Totally., And, so,, yeah,, not, like, it's like the ultimate end all be all. Like everyone's life looks different. Everyone's timeline looks different. And a lot of that is out of your control too. And so, try not to beat yourself up and try to find contentment. I know that's such a general thing to say right now but

50:51 there's, a, purpose, for, the, season, that you're in. As, much, as, you, it, doesn't, look, like, what you want it to be, like there's a purpose for it. And

50:59 lean, on, your, friends. Yeah., Thanks, for, saying, that., I, think that's good to say that

51:03 marriage, and, kids, are, amazing., Yes. And, if, you're in, your, if, you're, in, that season of waiting for those things and those are things that you want and they don't feel accessible right now, like I hurt for you.

51:13 Yeah., Yeah. Like, that's, hard. Totally. And, our, lives, aren't, like, better, than yours. It's different.

51:18 Yeah. I, would, say, I, look, back, and, I, wish, I would have enjoyed those seasons more than like I was like I was so excited to get married that I kind of just like tried to rush into

51:26 getting, married., I, wanted, kids, so, I, rush into and then I'm like ah I should have soaked, it, in, a, little bit, more., So, while it is hard and while you're waiting, I'm like

51:33 just, soak, it, in., Like, that's, the, hardest, thing, is, just, finding contentment where you're at. Gosh especially like for someone like me like I I don't even feel like I'm a planner at all. Like, I don't even like really think ahead, but I'm just like I love looking forward to things. That's how I always like even as a kid, I like looked back and I was like when something was ending, my mom was like "Well, this is coming." And like I feel like that's how I always like kept propelling myself forward. So

51:57 that's, kind, of, life., Yeah., We, love women. We're pro women. We're pro-children. We're pro

52:05 marriage. Marriage. Ask, Ask, Ask, Aby's. Wait,, this, is, fun., This, is, our, first time having a listener do it.

52:15 Oh, my, gosh,, I'm, kind, of, nervous. Fun., We're, going to, do, three, questions or three voicemails from listeners. And here is the first one. My name's Francesca and I was wondering what's your best advice for getting motivated to help with my like selfimage and how I feel about my body and basically how to motivate myself to lose a bunch of weight. Love you guys.

52:42 Oh, my, gosh,, that's, such, a, sweet,, honest Franchesca. Thank you for sending that. I feel like probably a lot of people relate to that or wonder the same things.

52:50 Mhm., M, I, I, feel, like, my, initial, reaction is weight is just it's just a number you know, and that shouldn't I don't always feel like that's not a bad motivation for things if it's like unhealthy. But I think your motivation should just be health. And I feel like that's especially postpartum, I've felt that a lot, like especially when your body changes a lot. You know, I feel like as women, our bodies go through a lot of ups and downs. And it's been motivating and really fun. And it's helped like keep my health forefront of mine when I just think about I want to feel strong. I want to feel like I have the best energy levels and all that. So finding that's been motivating for me.

53:26 Um,, and, if, it's, I, feel, like, if, I'm, just like, oh, I want to lose weight or I'm not feeling confident about my body and I want to wait weight, then that leaves me want to do unhealthy things like not eat the way that I should or like, you know, eat less calories than I that's correct or go too crazy in the gym or it's overwhelming and I don't want to do anything at all. And so I feel like that's almost not like the I feel like there is other factors that could be maybe more motivating

53:51 than, weight, on, the, scale., I, don't, know. Yeah., Find, a, way, to, move, your, body, that you just actually really like.

53:56 Yes. And, that, can, be, a, lot, of, trial, and error. I think the great place to start would be group fitness because it you have that built-in accountability and you don't have to think. you literally just show up and they tell you what to do and you leave and

54:09 like, almost, every, time, you, get, a, good well-rounded workout because someone that's really well trained in all of this is like writing it for you and um more than anything like if you find a community that's like that's the best way to stay accountable in my opinion and something that you like. Now something I want to say is that like you can't hate the way you look or hate your body into changing. I think you have to love it into that. And I mean that that sounds so cheesy but I mean that in the sense of like you have to love your body in the sense that like you want to do good things for it and like move it and feed it well and also treat it like do those things and then you'll that will be the change rather than like I just despise what I see and that's that's just not going to be long lasting.

54:56 Um, I, feel, like, this, is, my, conversation with my mom a lot like I'm like hey your goal should just be to show up. That is amazing. That's my only goal is to show up and like I want to do it because I want to do something good for my body because I love my body and I want to be able to do things with it for a long time.

55:13 And, so, I, feel, like, the, motivation, has, to come from love and not like hate. Now the self-image part

55:19 that, is, hard, and gosh I don't even necessarily know how to tackle that. Like I feel like that's something that everyone struggles with.

55:27 Yeah., And, I, think, it, shifts, a, lot throughout your life. Yeah. Yeah., And, I, feel like, Franchesca, you sound young which is sweet. Thank you for like listening. And um I just feel like too as you get older that will change. Like I remember feeling very insecure about myself when I was in high school and you know worrying about all these things. And I look back at pictures now I'm like why was I ever like insecure or like why did I worry about these things at a young age and as you get older I feel like you get life experience. you kind of get out of like oh, these are the certain images or standards of beauty or this is what's right and what's wrong and you kind of get this overall which is like silly to say like oh just wait you know that's not my point but I'm just saying like in as when you're young it feels like it's your whole world and it's everything that you're thinking of and it's really

56:08 important feels really important so yeah I just feel like give yourself some grace when you're young

56:14 and, in, the, interim, I, feel, like, when, I have felt like low self-image times just going a little bit like maybe this is bad Guys, correct me if this is bad advice, but sometimes I'm like, let me just get myself done up like one time. And then I just feel like it just like kickstarts me into like I don't know. I know. Okay, so say I do my mascara. I'm like, my gosh, my eyes like they're really standing out. Then you start to notice the things naturally about yourself that you really like. And so it's like less of a crutch and more of just like a

56:42 kickstart., I, don't, know., Like, find, find things that make you feel more confident. like if there's a certain way you do your hair or like a little bit of makeup or an outfit that you feel like really flatters you. I feel like that's just the thing that you can kickstart you into like social settings in which you're, going to, have, people, that, are like actually going to like speak life into you and like fulfill you in other ways and kind of get you out of that headsp space where it's like the only thing that matters is like how I look which maybe that is like how it feels.

57:10 But then once you're out and like, oh people like me because I'm funny or people like me because like they like the things I have to say or the energy I bring to a room and it's like maybe that's just all it takes to get you in those settings

57:22 you, know?, I, don't, know., When, I'm, like, in a down world, I'm like I think I just need to like curl my hair.

57:27 Yeah. Do, a, little, mascara, and, then, get, out, get out of my space and be with other people. And that really kind of helps like get your thoughts out of your own head.

57:36 Yeah,, that's, good. Thanks, for, saying, that, that, that question. Hi guys, this is Kamari. I have been watching you all for quite some time. My question is how do you find the strength to keep going as a mother even when you're going through things like grief, postpartum depression, and just life itself?

57:58 It's, fresh, for, me, still., Like,, but, yeah, you saying that does like reveal in me. And I feel like there was a lot of times like especially at the beginning where I was like I'm not showing up at all for my kids because I'm just so wrapped up in my own grief. Like I just felt like I couldn't show up for them. I think you gave me this advice, Abby. So this was good. But it was you were like it's good for them to see you grieving. It's good for them to see you like sad. I don't know how you said it. But um and I think other friends gave me that advice as well because I was like so stuck in this like I can't be around them if I'm just such a bother. like if I'm just so down.

58:34 And so then it was like me retreating and like Matt was doing everything for the kids. And I that's a privilege cuz like this mom who called in like she she might not have that as an option.

58:44 Mhm. And, I, just, want, to, say, like, it's, okay because I needed to hear this too. It's okay for your kids to see you down. It's I think important to follow up with conversation though about like what you are down about in a child appropriate way and um finding ways to do that was really important for me because I think this is how kids also start to learn how to cope with their own feelings um knowing that um I've heard it said before too like when kids experience like an emotion and they feel like mom or dad never had like they never experienced this they don't know what it's like and it can that can feel really confusing. and lonely for kids.

59:23 So like saying like, "Mom, feels sad right now." And I would like tell them like why I was sad in a child appropriate way. And that like felt like a relief to me that I didn't have to just completely disappear because I was just like sad. And it also feel like for them like then they had a frame of reference where it's like okay like then they would bring it up to me. And so I feel like that was like I'm not explaining this well at all, but basically don't feel like you have to shield your kids from that. I do think that you should reflect like how am I going to like especially with some of the things you can be grieving can be really like really heavy

59:58 and, maybe, not, necessarily, like, so, cuz also I was like if I start to talk about this to like my two and three-year-old I could really unload on them and that's not their job. So, just like do this thoughtfully, but don't feel like you have to hide that up or bottle that up or just completely retreat because they're smart. They're really smart no matter how young they are.

1:00:21 Totally., That's, a, good, answer,, AB., Yeah. your grief came from a place of love and that's a really that's a really important things for your kids to see in your specific and I think anyone who's going through loss like if you're grieving a loss of a parent of a child of anything like

1:00:36 you're, feeling, super, sad, because, you loved them so much and that's a really sweet thing for your kids to see

1:00:42 and, and, for, you, to, explain, to, them, like I this is like I I loved them so much you know.

1:00:47 Yeah., And, like, that's, that's, a, um, what's the word like honorable thing that's, not, you, know, and, I, think, that's, a good reminder like grief isn't bad like it's coming from a place of like

1:01:00 love, and, sadness. I, think, have, grace, on, yourself, too. Um, that's, so, hard, to, do, sometimes, but just like know that this is a tough season and it's not going to look like this always. Um, so I for me like your question is about keeping going and it's like I think set small goals for yourself like as a mom would be like just a really e like if depending on how old your kids are. It's like I want to do one guided activity with them today or I want to do 10 minutes of just like play with them and then just like having those like little goals to start help get you back in motion too. And then you can also just be like, I showed up for them. And you don't have to just deal with like that guilt of like maybe I can't be as fun or as like lively or imaginative. Like I was like, I can't use my imagination right now. Like I just remember feeling like I can't just like run around and be goofy, but like

1:01:53 I'm like I can sit down and do Play-Doh with them for like 10 minutes or things like that. So just set small goals too cuz like eventually 3 weeks into small goals, you'll find yourself in a better place. Like I guarantee it.

1:02:07 And, doesn't, it, fluctuates, too, as, I'm sure anyone who's gone through grief knows. But

1:02:11 yeah., Yeah., You, don't, have, to, hide, that from your kids. Like when your kids are older and they look back on that and like, "Oh, wow. Mom really struggled with postpartum depression and her mom was really grieving during that season." They're not going to think she was so weak., You, know,, they're, going to, think, "Wow, look how strong my mom is. She got through that season and she's still this amazing mom and she loves us." So have

1:02:30 But, they, might, feel, confused, if, it's, not like a conversation, if that makes sense.

1:02:35 Oh,, for, sure., Yeah. And, because, I, think, kids, tend, to, put things on themselves, like their how their parents are doing like on themselves. So

1:02:42 follow, what, are, some, tips, or, advice, that you have for when you just found out that you're pregnant

1:02:52 when, you, just, found, out, you're, pregnant? What do you do? Oh,, you, probably, sweat, a, lot.

1:02:59 Buy, deodorant, again. I, literally, listened, to, a, podcast., I, was like "What do I do when you find out your

1:03:06 Oh,, like, what, do, you, like, actually, do? Actually,, what, should, you, do?"

1:03:09 That's, a, great, question., It's, hard, at the beginning. There's not a lot to do.

1:03:13 Totally., You, kind, of, just, have, to, wait cuz you you call your doctor. You need to make a doctor's appointment and they're going to tell you you have to wait. Find an OBGYn. What' you say?

1:03:21 That's, what, they, tell, you, to, wait, till, 8 weeks. Yeah. And, you're, like,, "Oh, my, gosh,, I, don't know how many weeks I am." They'll help you calculate it, help you figure it out. Gosh, it's so exciting and so fun. And I remember when I found out with CJ I was obviously like really surprised and I drove to Starbucks and I was sweating so much and trying to hold back tears and I hadn't told anybody yet. I drove immediately to Starbucks. I was going to get a drink and I told the guy at the counter, I go, "Can you write on it, I'm pregnant my eyes out and then I was just" and he's like, "Did you just find out?" And I was like, "Yeah." And he gave me a hug and it was really sweet. Yeah. So, I feel like after that emotions kind of like settle, um, you can decide then with your partner how you want to tell people and when you want to tell people.

1:04:04 I think that's kind of it. You just kind of wait. Yeah,, it's, a, lot, of, waiting.

1:04:08 Yep., Would, you, agree,, Addie? Yeah., I, had, no, idea, what, to, do, and, we were recording a podcast that day and so I listened to a podcast from I don't even know who. Someone somewhere. I was like, "What to do when you find out you're pregnant?"

1:04:22 What, they, say?, What, they, say?, They, said, "Make an appointment. Call an OB if you haven't found one. Start taking a prenatal if you're not."

1:04:30 Oh,, that's, a, good, thing. I, wasn't, taking, a, prenatal., I, should have been. Yeah. And then a lot of waiting. But I also just told everyone that day. So

1:04:37 Oh,, yeah., That's, the, hardest, part., It's like you kind of just have to tell someone. Totally one person.

1:04:40 I, had, to, tell. Get, it, off, your, chest,, you, know. Well,, we, told, Abby, and, then, she convinced us to go tell everyone.

1:04:45 Well,, I, also, knew, that, my, mom, would, be so mad if I knew. Yeah. Well,, like, long, before, her.

1:04:50 Yeah., I, was, like,, "You, are, you, waiting for a specific reason or because I was like, if you're not

1:04:57 you, better, tell, Lori." Blake, was, the, one, that, was, like,, "Let's wait." And I'm like, "Come on."

1:05:02 Yeah. Oh,, yeah., That's, funny. That's, so, exciting., Congratulations. Oh, my, gosh., It's, great.

1:05:09 I, had, an, unhinged., This, is, probably going to get cut, but when I was thinking about pros and cons to getting married,

1:05:14 oh, gosh, this, is, unhinged., But, I, just, had, to, say it. Okay., If, you, get, married, young,, you're gonna have sex a lot more.

1:05:21 You, got, a, lot, of, practice, time. Like, I, literally, Matt, ass, chat, GB. A, lot, more, as, in, a, lot, more, in, your lifetime.

1:05:30 Yes. Yeah., It's, so, true. Like, there, if, you're, just, doing, one night stands, there's literally no way you'll spend your whole life coordinating partners.

1:05:37 Like, I, mean, it's, just, not, going, to, work out. Um Matt asked chat GBT like where we at as far as like Caleb and I also just calculated that up. What? Just ourselves though.

1:05:48 Just, ourselves., I'm, not, going, to, give it. But I was like, "No one. It take a long time for newlyweds to catch us.

1:05:55 You'll, never, catch, us." Oh, my, god. Hey., Okay., We, cried, a, lot, this, episode. I had to do something.

1:06:04 Well,, thanks, guys, for, supporting, us. It's like obviously we're we're working out our podcast muscle together.

1:06:12 It's, going, to, get, stronger, over, time, but we're, new, to, this., It, feels, I, know you're like this is a new role for you.

1:06:17 Yeah, this, is, definitely, a, new, role, for, me. So, yeah. Thanks, for, listening, to, episode, two.

1:06:21 Thanks, for, listening., We'll, be, back, next week. If you want to leave a voicemail for next week's episode, be sure to call in and the number is 602456-9690. If you're driving or doing laundry or something, it'll also be in the description and on our Instagram page. Follow us on the Instagram page.

1:06:39 That, would, be, really, fun. Subscribe, on, YouTube and, subscribe, on, YouTube

1:06:42 and, Tik, Tok., We're, there, as, well., Thanks so much for being here and being a part of the Always Here community. It makes this like so much more fun doing this with you guys. So

1:06:51 and, remember,, we're, always, here.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Parenting through grief, career vs. motherhood, and raising confident kids - with the Abbys"?

Abby (Guest), Addie (Guest), Francesca (Guest), Kamari (Guest).

What is "Parenting through grief, career vs. motherhood, and raising confident kids - with the Abbys" about?

The discussion centers on the challenges of parenting through personal grief, the tension between career ambitions and motherhood, and the importance of fostering confidence in children. The speakers reflect on societal narratives surrounding motherhood, personal struggles with balancing work and family life, and the emotional journey of connecting with their community while navigating these…

What is mentioned in this Always Here episode?

6 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Val, Courtney Cook, Kelsea Ballerini, Call Her Daddy, Francesca, Kamari. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Parenting through grief, career vs. motherhood, and raising confident kids - with the Abbys"?

The episode runs 1 h 7 min; the transcript is about 15,194 words in 324 timestamped sections.

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