The Delphi Murders: Did They Get the Wrong Guy?

What this episode is about

The episode examines the Delphi murders of Abby Williams and Libby German, focusing on the investigation, the arrest of Richard Allen, and the ensuing controversy over whether the suspect was correctly identified, with attention to the trial, evidence, confessions, and competing theories of guilt.

Key takeaways

• Public fixation intensified the case; 5-year delays amplified rumors and magnified every misstep into a potential misjustice.
• Dualities collide: public hunger for closure vs. doubt about the suspect fuels a modern justice theater.
• Case reveals media-influenced memory: leaks, jail calls, and confessions often reshape truth more than evidence.
• Small-town dynamics matter: Delelfhy’s tight-knit fabric can both aid and impede thorough investigations.
• Truth isn’t binary here: allegiance to Abby and Libby’s memory should guide civility over sensationalism.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Annie Eliss (Host) · 56 min speaking
• Richard Allen (Guest) · 14 min speaking
• Bridge Guy (Guest) · 5 min speaking
• Derek (Guest) · 5 min speaking
• Becky (Guest) · 3 min speaking
• Kelsey (Guest) · 3 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Bolter Kelsey, Bruce German, Nolan Williams, Annie Eliss
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Bolter Kelsey, NOCD, February 14, 2017, Shaw Derek
3. 20:00 – 30:00: Hugh Logan, Richard Allen, Esther Klene, 2022
4. 30:00 – 40:00: Richard Allen
5. 40:00 – 50:00: HelloFresh
6. 1:00:00 – 1:10:00: Nolan Williams, Richard Allen
7. 1:10:00 – 1:20:00: Bruce German, 2023, Free Will
8. 1:20:00 – 1:30:00: Bruce German, Nolan Williams, Richard Allen, Deer Creek
9. 1:30:00 – 1:33:21: Richard Allen, Annie Eliss

Notable quotes from "The Delphi Murders: Did They Get the Wrong Guy?"

• And it is the case of the brutal murders of Abby Williams and Libby German. Abby and Libby, they were best friends, and they were only 13 and 14 years old when their lives were viciously taken from.

  about Nolan Williams · at 0:11

• It Deli Indiana. So you might hear that a little bit too. It is Deli. So bear with me. Bear with past Annie on that.

  about Annie Eliss · at 3:17

• Her grandparents as well. And Libby, Libby was described as just the sweetest and kindest little girl. She lived with her grandparents and with her sister Kelsey, who she was…

  about Bolter Kelsey · at 4:20

• The filing, but then they decided that they wanted to head out and go enjoy the day outside. And they wanted to go to Mon High Bridge Trail. And this trail was essentially like…

  about Mon High Bridge Trail · at 6:34

• Stayed watching the girls enter the trail before then driving off. At 2:05 p.m., Libby posted a photo on her Snapchat story of the bridge. And then she posted another photo at…

  about Bruce German · at 8:23

• Things. So Libby wasn't the type of girl to just blow off family phone calls or texts either. So Derek decided he was going to walk these trails and see if he could…

  about Shaw Derek · at 13:43

• It turned out to be really sketchy. On February 14th, the day that the girls were found, Ron called his cousin and asked him to tell the police that he had picked up Ron around…

  about Hugh Logan · at 23:10

• But the arrest of Richard M. Allen of Deli on two counts of murder is sure a major step in leading to the conclusion of this long-term and complex investigation.

  about Richard Allen · at 26:26

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Richard Allen — Person · Primary suspect/defendant discussed · 7 mentions · first at 1:51
  Arrested in 2022 and tried in 2024; the episode focuses on evidence for/against him, interrogation excerpts, and alleged coerced confessions.
• Bruce German — Person · Core victim in case recap · 5 mentions · first at 0:14
  Her phone video/audio (“Guys, down the hill”), Snapchat posts, and family search actions are central evidence threads discussed throughout.
• Nolan Williams — Person · Core victim in case recap · 4 mentions · first at 0:11
  One of the two murdered girls; her movements, discovery, and crime-scene details anchor the episode's timeline and controversy.
• Annie Eliss — Person · Host · 3 mentions · first at 3:22
  Narrator and presenter of the episode; frames the case, provides updates, and reads sponsor segments.
• Hugh Logan — Person · Referenced alternative suspect/property owner · 3 mentions · first at 22:35
  Owner of the property where the bodies were found; discussed due to alleged alibi issues, phone activity, and abuse allegations.
• Bolter Kelsey — Person · Referenced family member/witness · 7 mentions · first at 4:29
  Identified as Libby’s sister who drove the girls to the trail and later joined the search; key to the timeline.
• Shaw Derek — Person · Referenced family member/searcher · 2 mentions · first at 7:28
  Libby’s father who attempted pickup, initiated searching, and triggered the missing-person response.
• Esther Klene — Person · Referenced person of interest (ruled out) · 2 mentions · first at 21:42
  Discussed as an online catfish who communicated with Libby on the day of the murders; later ruled out for the homicides.
  New information, the case seemed to ramp up again after a new person of interest entered the public eye. 29-year-old Keegan Klene was an internet catfish that would use various…
• Beth Mike — Person · Referenced family member · 1 mention · first at 15:19
  Libby’s grandfather who joined the search and provided electronics to police early in the investigation.
  Answer their phones and not to show up at the meeting spot. So, Grandma Becky calls Liby's grandpa, Mike, who left work to come and see if he could help.

Concepts & topics

• Free Will — Concept · Peripheral phrase in legal/psych context · 1 mention · first at 1:10:28
  Appears in the defense framing that confessions were not made of Richard Allen’s “own free will.”
  >> But according to the defense, Richard didn't make these confessions on his own free will. They say that Richard was coerced into making them after…

Places & events

• Deli, Indiana — Place · Primary setting · 2 mentions · first at 0:28
  Town where the trail system and murders occurred; also where Richard Allen is described as living/working.
  Murders, there was finally a huge break in the case. Police announced the arrest of a new suspect, a man named Richard Allen, a 50-year-old CVS worker from Deli.
• Mon High Bridge Trail — Place · Key crime-scene vicinity · 1 mention · first at 6:37
  The destination trail/bridge area where the girls were dropped off and where key evidence (Snapchat, video) originated.
• February 14, 2017 — Event · Discovery/press conference day · 1 mention · first at 19:48
  The day the bodies were found and law enforcement held a press conference; also referenced in Ron Logan alibi discussion.
  It turned out to be really sketchy. On February 14th, the day that the girls were found, Ron called his cousin and asked him to tell the police that he had picked up Ron around 2 to 2:30 in the.
• 2022 — Event · Major case developments year · 1 mention · first at 24:42
  Year of Richard Allen’s arrest (Oct 26, 2022) and also the year Ron Logan died (per episode).
  Evidence was, Ron was never arrested or even named as a suspect. And that's because in 2022, Ron actually died from CO. So, as other suspects came to light after his…
• 2023 — Event · Defense strategy/leaks year · 1 mention · first at 1:12:24
  Referenced for prior coverage, the defense’s Odinism filing (Sept 2023), and leaked crime-scene photos (Oct 2023).
  Immediately. And that was far from the only hurdle that the defense was up against. In October of 2023, private crime scene photos were leaked to the media. and they were…
• Deer Creek — Place · Body recovery vicinity · 2 mentions · first at 19:34
  Referenced as the nearby waterway; bodies were found ~50 feet from its shore.
  Trees in the woods. The girls were found on a private property near the high bridge, and they were about 50 ft from the shore of Deer Creek, which wasn't far from where…
• February 15, 2017 — Event · Autopsy/identification date · 1 mention · first at 19:59
  Autopsies began and positive identification was made, transitioning the case into a confirmed double homicide investigation.
  And from there, the FBI immediately got involved. Autopsies began on February 15th in Indiana, and a positive identification was made on both girls.
• February 22, 2017 — Event · Public appeal press conference · 1 mention · first at 20:34
  Law enforcement asked the public for information and released audio to the public.
  They also released the audio clip to the public during this press conference. In July of 2017, they ended up releasing a sketch of who they believed to be the suspect. Tips continued to come in, but.
• Freedom Bridge Trail — Place · Search location · 2 mentions · first at 14:46
  Named as an area Derek searched when the girls did not meet for pickup.
  So, then Derek, as he's continuing to search these trails, decides that he's going to check the Freedom Bridge Trail, and this was part of the area. But the…
• February 12, 2017 — Event · Pre-crime timeline marker · 2 mentions
  Marks the sleepover night and the start of the episode’s timeline leading into the murders.
• Delelfi, Indiana — Place · Misspoken/variant location reference · 2 mentions · first at 4:00
  A mispronunciation/variant used in the episode referring to Delphi, Indiana; included because it appears in the transcript.
  Abby Williams and Libby German were two best friends living in Delelfi, Indiana.

Sponsors

• NOCD — Organization · Sponsor/advertised service · 2 mentions · first at 11:11
  Advertised as a provider of OCD treatment during the episode’s sponsor segment.
  And NOCD is the world's leading provider of OCD treatment. They offer virtual therapy specifically designed for OCD with therapists who are trained and tested by top OCD experts. You also get access to tools, messaging between.
• OCD — Concept · Sponsor-segment topic · 1 mention · first at 10:57
  Discussed in an ad-read/personal aside about intrusive thoughts and treatment; not part of the Delphi case narrative.
  And OCD is so often misunderstood. It's not about being organized or quirky.
• Tovala — Organization · Sponsor/advertised product · 3 mentions · first at 9:11
  Meal delivery + smart oven sponsor; promoted mid-episode.
  Just go to tovala.com/life and use my code life. That's a $49 Tovala smart oven when you head to tovala.com/life and use promo code life. one last time.
• HelloFresh — Organization · Sponsor/advertised product · 3 mentions · first at 45:31
  Meal-kit sponsor; promoted during a mid/late episode ad break.
  >> We all can probably agree nothing hits like home cooking. And HelloFresh makes it easier to do more of it even on busy weeks. With over 100 recipes to choose…

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Of all of the cases that we've covered over here on Tend to Life, there are very few that are more publicized, more controversial, or more heartbreaking than the case we're talking about today. And it is the case of the brutal murders of Abby Williams and Libby German. Abby and Libby, they were best friends, and they were only 13 and 14 years old when their lives were viciously taken from them. taken from them when they were out on what should have just been a normal happy walk along the trails in Deli, Indiana. And one of the most shocking things about this case is how long it took for an arrest to even happen.

0:37 Despite massive searches and despite intense public attention, I mean, it took 5 years before anybody was arrested. 5 years. I mean, that is a lot of time for rumors to spread, for people to start questioning the investigation, and also for some extremely sketchy characters to just like crawl out of the woodwork. Now, the last time that we covered this case, it was back in 2023 when a suspect was finally arrested. But since then, this case has literally exploded. There has not only been a huge trial, but a huge country or, you know, world divided because yes, many people believe that justice has finally been served for Abby and Libby, but others are convinced that the police, they got the wrong guy. And in the meantime, there's also been leaked photos, crazy jail calls, recorded confessions, rumors about cults, alleged setups. I mean, it has been absolute chaos. Also, when I was out on my live tour last fall, one

1:38 of the most highly requested cases that I reopen and re-examine is this case, the Deli murders, just because I think how controversial it is and how so many people do believe that they got it all wrong, that Richard Allen isn't the guy, that it's somebody else entirely. So today we are reopening this case and we are breaking down everything. The suspect, the confessions, the trial, also the evidence on both sides of the argument. This case is incredibly complex and incredibly controversial. So my goal today isn't to tell you to believe one thing over the other, but rather it's to break down all of the facts and really walk you through the arguments on both sides and determine what you think is true. As always, I encourage you to please do your own research, form your own opinions, come to your own conclusions, and please keep it civil in the comment section over on

2:30 YouTube as well. The ultimate goal is always to honor Abby and Libby by telling their story. And I think we can all agree that that can't accurately and successfully happen when other people are just like attacking one another. So, please keep it respectful even though I know that there are a lot of very passionate opinions out there. Also, as a quick reminder, in these reopened episodes, we revisit the original deep dive and then we drop in every new update along the way. I also will jump on and give some hindsight as to previous things that I've stated or shared or if my opinions have changed.

3:03 So, you may hear some differences in the audio just due to the equipment changing over time. But so you know, also in one of my very first episodes when I ever covered this case, I completely mispronounced Deli Indiana and I called it Deli Indiana. So you might hear that a little bit too. It is Deli. So bear with me. Bear with past Annie on that. Give her a little bit of grace. She doesn't always get the city names right. That was very, very early on. Like that was even before 2023. I think that that was like I don't even it was forever ago. So anyway, with that said, we have a lot to get into today. So get ready because this is a really complicated one. I'm Annie Eliss. This is Tend to Life and today we are reopening the Deli murders. Let's jump right in.

3:57 Abby Williams and Libby German were two best friends living in Delelfi, Indiana. Abby was 14 years old and Libby was 13 years old. And Abby was apparently an absolute animal lover. I am talking she loved everything outdoors. She loved all sorts of animals and just was, you know, one with nature. She lived with her mom full-time and loved spending time with her grandparents as well. And Libby, Libby was described as just the sweetest and kindest little girl. She lived with her grandparents and with her sister Kelsey, who she was extremely close with. and she was just a pretty happy go-lucky little girl. So, the two of them were best friends and they went to middle school together and really just had all of the same common interests.

4:43 They were excited about the upcoming softball season. They were excited about playing the saxophone, which it's like, how hard is it to find somebody else who loves playing the saxophone at a young age like that? They loved photography, painting, really just everything. Any hobbies that one of them had, the other loved equally as much. So, the two of them spent so much time together and they really were truly just the best of friends. Now, Delelfphy, Indiana, let's talk a little bit about that location.

5:10 Delelfi is a very small town in Indiana. It's less than 3 square miles in size and has less than 3,000 residents according to a census that was done back in 2019. So, a very, very tight-knit community. And that's where they loved, that's where they grew up, and everybody was friendly with each other. and it was just, you know, reportedly a great town to be a part of. But on February 12th, 2017, everything would just start to unravel and rock these two little girls' world and their famil family's lives. So on February 12th, the two little girls decided to have a sleepover at Libbyy's grandparents house. The next day was actually going to be a school holiday from unused snow days. So they wanted to hang out, have a sleepover, and then spend the entire next day together. So they ended up spending that evening with Libbyy's older sister, Kelsey. They hung

6:01 out with Kelsey, ate pizza, stayed up, and just had, you know, a typical girls sleepover night. You're watching movies, you're talking about boys, you're, you know, messaging people, you're eating pizza, just like an innocent, happy sleepover. But they had absolutely no idea what the next day would bring. The next morning, they woke up and they enjoyed pancakes for breakfast and they then just started their day. They helped Libbyy's grandma Becky actually with filing some of her filing work because they wanted to make a little extra money, possibly go shopping later that day. So they did this. They helped with the filing, but then they decided that they wanted to head out and go enjoy the day outside. And they wanted to go to Mon High Bridge Trail. And this trail was essentially like the spot for teenagers to hang out at. We all had one. We already we everybody had one in

6:49 high school and even in middle school. And here everyone always wanted to hang out there. and it was really wellnown. It was an old abandoned railway bridge and it had trails all along it and it was just the spot that people would go to. So Abby and Libby asked Grandma Becky if they could go and Grandma Becky told them that they could go but only if they could find rides to and from the trail. She did not want them walking on their own. So Libby asked her sister Kelsey if she would take them and Kelsey initially had said no. She had afternoon plans with her boyfriend that later that day, but then she ended up having a little bit of guilt for not spending a ton of time with Libby. So, she says, "You know, I'll take you guys and I'll drop you off if you can find a ride home." So, then Libby decided to call her dad, Derek, who happened to actually be taking photos of Grandma Becky later

7:33 that day. And she asked him if he could pick them up. Her father, Derek, said that once he was done with Grandma Becky, he would pick them up and that it would be approximately, you know, 2 hours in total. So, now Libby and Abby had their rides. They were going to head out to the trail and have a fun day out away from school. School was closed and they were just going to enjoy the outside. So, they all piled into Kelsey's car around 1:30 p.m. And Kelsey drove them to the trail. On the way, Kelsey had received a phone call from her boyfriend while she was on her way to drop the girls off. So, she takes the call around 1:38 p.m. And then she was still on the phone with her boyfriend around 1:40 p.m. when she dropped the girls off at the entrance to this trail.

8:13 So, she made sure that both girls had their jackets and Kelsey and to Libby told each other that I love you because their family always made sure to voice their love for one another. And she stayed watching the girls enter the trail before then driving off. At 2:05 p.m., Libby posted a photo on her Snapchat story of the bridge. And then she posted another photo at 2:07 p.m., just 2 minutes later, of Abby walking on the bridge. And at some point, Libby began taking a video on her cell phone through her camera roll app, you know, the video app. And in the beginning of the video, they were talking about, you know, typical teenage stuff, just girl stuff. But then in the video, you can actually see a man walking with blue jeans and a jacket on, and he's walking along the bridge. But the angle of the video almost makes it seem like Libby took this video of the man behind her.

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11:42 That's ncd.com to learn more and book a free 15minute call. Now, since our last update, the entire video that Libby took has been released, and it really does give us more insight into the girl's last moments.

12:14 See, this is the path that we go down. Um, there's no path going there. So, we have to go down here, guys. Hi, So, who was this man? It seems as though she was purposely videoing him. Was this something that she was doing for her own safety to like video him to make sure he was on film? Was she doing it out of fear? Why was she filming this man? And more importantly, who was he? And why was he telling them to go down the hill? And this was the last time that the girls were ever seen alive. At 3:11 p.m., about an hour and a half since they were dropped off at the trail, Libbyy's dad, Derek, called Libbyy's phone to let her know that he was getting close and he was going to be there to pick her up. But there was no answer on her phone. So, he pulled into the parking lot at 3:14 p.m. And then he called her again. There was still no answer. And the girls were also not at

13:24 the meetup spot that they had originally agreed upon. So obviously her dad Derek is very concerned because what teenage girl is not answering her phone or her text messages, especially this day and age when teens are literally always on the phone and we know that she was very active on her phone on Snapchat, posting photos, taking videos, all of these things. So Libby wasn't the type of girl to just blow off family phone calls or texts either. So Derek decided he was going to walk these trails and see if he could find the girls because something felt wrong here. Dererick passed a man who was in a flannel on the trails and asked him if he had seen the two girls.

13:58 The guy said that he did not, but that he did see a couple up there. Now, this area was an intersection of the trail where the 505 and 501 trail meet. So, when this man in the flannel shirt, whose name has never officially been released, said that he didn't see the girls, Dererick decided to take one of those paths, the 505 trail, thinking that maybe they must have gotten on that one instead. But when he couldn't find them on that trail, he became much more concerned and knew that something was not right. He called Becky, Libbyy's grandmother, and asked her if she could try to get a hold of Libby. And Grandma Becky was actually with Libbyy's aunt Terra at the time. So, they began calling Libby trying to get in touch with her, texting her, but they had no luck. They were completely unsuccessful.

14:42 So, then Derek, as he's continuing to search these trails, decides that he's going to check the Freedom Bridge Trail, and this was part of the area. But the girls weren't there either. And this was frightening. He was extremely nervous. And this is when the family started freaking out. Nobody was answering their phone calls. Nobody was answering their text messages. He couldn't find them anywhere. It's beginning to start to get dark. This is a problem and they are panicking at this point. Where were these two young girls? Something had to be seriously wrong for them not to answer their phones and not to show up at the meeting spot. So, Grandma Becky calls Liby's grandpa, Mike, who left work to come and see if he could help.

15:23 And Grandma Becky also called Libbyy's sister, Kelsey, to let her know that they needed help searching for these girls. So, Kelsey immediately leaves her boyfriend's house, who she had plans with that afternoon. She called into work and she went to help search. Everyone made their way over to these trails to go and search for these girls. Kelsey and her uncle Cody were paired together and they were searching the southeast end of the bridge. They were actually near a private property and spent about 20 to 30 minutes yelling the girl's name just trying to search for them anywhere they could be. Kelsey also called Libbyy's phone thinking that if Libby was there, she would hear the phone since it was relatively quiet outside. And Grandma Becky spent her time calling AT&T to see if they could ping Libbyy's phone to see if there was a known location. But of course, cell

16:12 phone companies get very, very finicky about this kind of stuff. And you know, legally, they're not able to give you the ping until they have a formal request from the police. So, this was unsuccessful. Grandma Becky even tried downloading certain apps like Find My Phone, things like that. But she realized that it wouldn't have worked because Libby didn't have those apps installed on her phone. So, now hours have gone by, guys. And at 5:20 p.m., literally over 2 hours later, the family decides it's time to call the police and report the girls as missing. By 6:00 p.m., news had gotten around that small town, and people were obviously freaking out. It was a very small town, and how could these two girls just mysteriously vanish in such a small town where everyone seemingly knew everyone? And the big positive about living in such a small town was definitely the sense of

17:01 community because everybody rallied together and started volunteering and searching for these girls, trying to crowdsource information, trying to hit the trails, trying to do anything they could to figure out what had happened. Police were paying so much attention to this investigation. They were not letting a minute slip by. They had Libbyy's grandpa Mike go back to his house and get every single electronic device from that house so that they could search it. They were also beginning to process that formal request for AT&T to ping the cell phones. So, not only were volunteers and police on the ground searching, they had also pulled out drones. There were firefighters. There were even trained water personnel out there searching. But by midnight, it became way too dangerous to continue the search given how dark it was and given how woodsy the area is.

17:50 So, law enforcement called off the official physical search of the girls with plans to resume the search the following day. And at this point, they had said that they did not suspect any sort of foul play because at that point, they really didn't have much to go off of. But still, this is so scary. You're now closing out the day. You're calling off the search. There's two young teens out there missing. even if there isn't any sort of foul play to be suspected, you know something is wrong. And then to just as a family member try to go through the night or sleep that night, which you're obviously not sleeping, but knowing that nobody's out there searching, it's that has to be just extremely devastating. The police continued working on pinging the phones, but at some point the phone had died, meaning that there were not going to be

18:36 any sort of updated pings done or in the area or anywhere for that matter. And even though that official search was called off, it didn't stop the family, the volunteers, or the firefighters, and they all stayed and searched throughout the night. And that is again just a huge testament to the sense of community in this town. That morning, the search was called back on, and more and more volunteers were showing up and helping with the search efforts. They were being split up into search groups and then they had a meeting at a command center that was set up to where everybody would go and then get distributed and then come back and report back information.

19:12 Well, at around 12:15 p.m. footsteps led searchers to a horrible discovery. And it was the discovery of the bodies of Abby and Libby. A volunteer searcher had found a shoe of Libbyy's. And when he looked up, there were actually two deer in the grass. As he got closer, he saw the two girls laying in between the trees in the woods. The girls were found on a private property near the high bridge, and they were about 50 ft from the shore of Deer Creek, which wasn't far from where Abby and Libby had actually initially been dropped off, but it was also somewhere that they would not have wandered off and gone on their own. By 2 p.m., law enforcement had a press conference stating that they did in fact find two bodies, but they did not confirm that it was Abby and Libby.

19:56 And from there, the FBI immediately got involved. Autopsies began on February 15th in Indiana, and a positive identification was made on both girls. And then the search was officially over. From there, this now turned into a double homicide investigation. On February 22nd, a press conference was held about the murders, and law enforcement pleaded with the public to come forward with any information that they had. They assured the public that the investigation was just getting started, so that they needed to be patient and that they would absolutely not give up and they would find whoever was responsible for these two deaths.

20:34 They also released the audio clip to the public during this press conference. In July of 2017, they ended up releasing a sketch of who they believed to be the suspect. Tips continued to come in, but no real leads were generated. For over a year and a half after that sketch was released, investigators combed through thousands of tips, but nothing generated. And on April 22nd, 2019, over a year and a half later, in a press conference, investigators replaced the original sketch. And this was a brand new sketch. But who was this person in this brand new sketch who looked entirely different from the person in the first sketch? It caused a lot of controversy and people were of course very very upset by this and they were very confused wondering how something like this could have happened. How the first sketch could look so much like one person and now it's being replaced with this new sketch who looks like somebody

21:30 completely different had they been looking for the wrong person this entire time. Then after years of essentially no new information, the case seemed to ramp up again after a new person of interest entered the public eye. 29-year-old Keegan Klene was an internet catfish that would use various fake accounts to chat with underageed girls. It was also discovered that he was actually chatting with Libby the day of the murders and had even told another girl that he was supposed to meet up with Libby that very day. Keegan was later arrested and charged with possessing child material and given 43 years in prison, but since then he has been ruled out as a suspect in the murders of Abby and Libby. Many people believed that the fact that an online predator just happened to be the last person to speak with Libby before the murders was too coincidental. Some thought that even if Keegan didn't

22:23 commit the crimes himself, that he was somehow connected to the real killer. And some people thought that the real killer was right under the police's noses the entire time. It turns out that Abby and Libbyy's bodies were found on property belonging to a man named Ron Logan. And Ron's history, it was not exactly squeaky clean. On March 8th, 2017, law enforcement interviewed an ex-girlfriend of Ron's. The two of them hadn't spoken in two years prior to this interview that law enforcement had with her. And this woman had actually told law enforcement in this interview that she had left Ron because he became physically abusive. She alleged that he had actually gone so far as to drag her out of the car by her hair. She said that once she left Ron, he stalked her and he harassed her. and Ron's alibi for where he was at the time of the murders.

23:10 It turned out to be really sketchy. On February 14th, the day that the girls were found, Ron called his cousin and asked him to tell the police that he had picked up Ron around 2 to 2:30 in the afternoon on the 13th, which was the day of the murders, more specifically the afternoon of the murders. and he asked his cousin to say that he had picked him up to take him to an aquarium store in Lafayette and that then they returned to the house around 5 or 5:30 that night. Now, what was Ron doing? That he needed his cousin to lie for him and provide him with an alibi. When law enforcement searched Ron's phone, they found that at 2:09 p.m., just 2 minutes after Libby posted the photo of Abby walking, Ron's phone made a call. They could not confirm his exact location, but the phone appeared to be in or around his property and around Highbridge where the girls went missing. He then sent a text

24:06 at 7:56 p.m. the night of the murder. The analysis of the phone showed that he was likely outside of his actual house and in the area where the girl's bodies were found. He also received a text that night at 10:16 p.m. that same night of the murder. And yet again, the analysis of the phone showed that he was likely outside of his actual house and in the area where the girls were found on his property. Perhaps this is when he was moving the bodies or was finishing staging them. But as compelling as that evidence was, Ron was never arrested or even named as a suspect. And that's because in 2022, Ron actually died from CO. So, as other suspects came to light after his death, many people started to believe that Ron had nothing to do with the girls at all. But other people aren't so sure, with some even claiming that Ron actually confessed to the murders. But now that Ron has passed

25:00 away, we may never know the full truth about whether he had any involvement. But honestly, I have to say, regardless of who committed the murders, it is pretty insane how many gross men these two innocent girls crossed paths with in like a single day. I mean, there was a known child predator actively trying to set up a meeting with Libby on the day of the murders. And then both girls are found on a property belonging to a man with a history of domestic violence who was also lying about his alibi. So, even if neither Keegan nor Ron was the girl's killer, it's crazy that these poor girls were even near them on the day of their murder. It's just such a scary reminder of how many dangerous people are truly out there hiding in plain sight. But with Keegan apparently ruled out and Ron dead, the investigators were basically back to square one. And there was intense pressure from the public to

25:51 finally find Abby and Libbyy's real killer. And then finally, on October 26th, 2022, more than 5 years after the murders, there was finally a huge break in the case. Police announced the arrest of a new suspect, a man named Richard Allen, a 50-year-old CVS worker from Deli. Selom do I have prepared remarks, but today is different because I do not want there be there to be any confusion or ambiguity with what I will say. Today is not a day to celebrate. But the arrest of Richard M. Allen of Deli on two counts of murder is sure a major step in leading to the conclusion of this long-term and complex investigation.

26:38 >> And as it turns out, the name Richard Allen, it wasn't new to the police either. Richard actually gave a voluntary statement to investigators just a couple of days after the murders. He admitted to being on the bridge that day, but he said that he was just there to walk around. Can you help us understand um what was going on on Monday, February the 13th? Can you kind of tell us what you were doing that day? And remember the day the girls Okay. >> on the trail. >> Yeah.

27:09 Um I went over to my mom's in Peru, Mexico earlier in the day. I think my mom had had a hip surgery back then or something. But regardless, my wife was working for there and spent the day. Not today. I spent the morning with them. Um my sister had to come over and they were going to go eat lunch and stuff and I wasn't about that. So I went home um and I remember it was fairly warm day or warmer than normal. So, um I think I just put a jacket on and went back out to the trails. Um usually we had a when we go we walk down the high bridge and walk back and walk down the other side and come back.

28:07 I mean, it wasn't a ritual, but I remember walking down to the bridge. Um >> the time it was I left the longer probably around 11 11:15. So I think I would have been out there because I didn't do anything else. It would have been around noon I thought is when I was out there. Walked down to Highbridgeidge. Always went out just a little ways. Not a whole way. went out a little late and watched the fish. Um, seeing if I seen any fish down there because I like fishing and walked back and said on the uh when you turn around, go down the other fort, there's a bench that overlooks and sat there for a few minutes and walked down the uh walked back out and left. I think I was there probably around noon. It could have been a little before noon or a little afternoon.

29:12 Um, walked down back an hour. So, probably 1 1:30 1:45 depending on exactly what time it was that I got there that day. I just remember walking down the trail um and I had told him that when I was approaching the trail, the trail head I guess is what I call it. There was uh three girls walking off the trail. Um and I just remember it looking like one of them was probably watching, not babysitting, but watching the other two cuz they looked a little younger. >> Um and they looked very similar. I don't know if they were that they're whatever, but the other one didn't necessarily, but uh I remember seeing them walking off the trail head. Um and I didn't really see anybody. Uh I walked down, like I said, I look at the water. I walked back and I sat like walk behind me, I guess, but I sat on that uh bench that overlooks the the creek bed and all that.

30:15 >> But the evidence started stacking up against Richard pretty quickly. For starters, the clothes that Richard admitted he was wearing that day, they just so happened to match exactly what the man in Libbyy's bridge video was wearing. There were also surveillance photos of a black 2016 Ford Focus that had been parked outside the trails that day, the day of the murders. And it turns out that in all of Deli in 2017, there was only one black 2016 Ford Focus, and it was registered to Richard Allen.

30:47 There's a lot here that we need to get clarified. Okay. As you well know, we have pictures of an individual who was on the bridge and to some great degree, you described that individual as wearing yourself as wearing blue jeans, >> a jacket of the same color as that. They described a hat. It's hard to be confused, but they're 10 brown. Okay. And this is a picture was taken with the phone of one of the girls. Okay, I understand that. And the question needs to be, is that you? If it was taken with the girl's phone, that is absolutely I mean, it's not me, but I never have met these girls before.

31:34 So even if I thought it looked like me, I if it was taken with the girl's phone, there's no way it could be. I've never met him. I never seen him. This this image, this person right here, he's wearing like a car heart jacket just like you just told us. Okay. He's wearing the same clothing that you just told us. We We just need to know what happened. Why? Sure. He I mean, I said I was wearing blue jeans. Now, I think blue jeans is a pretty common thing that people wear. And I said I was probably wearing a black or a blue coat. It could have been a car heart, a zip up with a hoodie in it. I've had black ones. I've had a blue one or a blue one and a black one.

32:17 What? I guess, you know, you're taking what I told you I was wearing and saying that that's me. And it So, so the other kind of And you're serious. You You literally want me to like that is a You want me to say that? That's my car. We looked at it matches everything. That's not That is your car. >> Okay. Well, I'm saying that picture. It's like Okay. I Yeah. No, that that there's zero doubt. Well, that actually I don't even Okay, that's showing you what we have and why we need to eliminate you.

32:47 >> And then there was a witness who saw someone matching Richard's description walking along the side of the road on the day of the murders. They saw this person covered in mud and blood. >> They have people that saw you. >> Okay. >> Ricky said you were out on the bridge yourself. There aren't that many people that saw me. I mean, I'm sure I didn't miss that many people. If they walked behind me, I guess you said that you were out on the bridge, this bridge yourself that day, around the time when this happened.

33:12 >> No, I didn't. >> You said you walked out onto the bridge when we talked to you earlier. You said that you walked out to about the first platform or within that area without the bridge. That's what you told us. So, we know that you were on the bridge. >> Of course, I was. >> Okay. I mean, I told you. >> And with that, you know, we can we can say that is this person you? That's that's the question. Is that person you?

33:37 That's the question we have to answer. Sure. Okay. So, if that person is you, we know this person followed the girls all the way to the other side of the bridge and then told them go down the hill. The question is, is this you? >> No. Okay. So, you're telling me that uh this person was out there on the bridge and wore the same clothing that you have? >> Oh, jeez. >> But you didn't see them. >> You can't tell that's a black car, heart coat, a blue car, a pullover. I told you I could have been wearing this.

34:11 >> The two the two the two kinds of clothing you said you wore that day was uh a either a black car heart coat or a blue car heart coat. Okay. You said you had blue jeans, right? Okay. And I've had Not very. Okay. So, put yourself in my chair. I guess what I'm saying is I don't I'm not going to tell you I wasn't wearing a black car ride that day. I told you I could have been. I don't know if that's a black car. And if it is, it's not mine. It's his.

34:42 And you said you had a hat. You normally wear a skull cap that covers. >> I said I carry one. So, if I was wearing one, it would be like a skull cap or a smaller type of hat or something. Okay. So, this is the situation we're in. Okay. Basically, this either you were out there to do this to the girls or you were out there to be able to introduce the girls to somebody else. Okay. Good luck finding anything that points in that direction. I mean, it's not me. You're not going to make me believe it's me. You're not going to find anything that ties me to those murders. So, I'm not really that concerned. You know, you you went from trying to I don't know what you want to say, get my thrust, and then slowly lure me into telling you I killed somebody and I'm not going to do it.

35:30 >> After the initial interrogation, police got a search warrant for Richard's house and car. And inside, they found a jacket matching the one seen in the bridge video, a huge collection of knives, and also over 20 different cell phones, which why the hell would anyone need that many cell phones, right? They also found a gun, specifically a Sig Sauer handgun. And this was a huge red flag because an unspent bullet was found at the crime scene between the two girls' bodies. And according to police, that bullet was a perfect match for Richard's gun.

36:05 >> I want to talk about the results of your handgun. Okay. So, we took your gun, your 40 cal uh Sig, >> and we sent it down maybe to the lab to have it matched with an item that we located on February the 14th when we found the girls. >> Okay. >> And that item was a 40 caliber Winchester round. We found that at the scene. >> Okay. >> The extraction marks on that round >> match your gun. >> So, >> this is Okay. that just hear me out. I'm just trying to >> So this is the round. Okay, those are the extraction marks. That's the best picture of them. There's actually three of them.

36:53 That's the other that's the same round that we found. Okay. Um and like I said, the methodology that they use is scientific and they're telling me that and this is the report. You can read it if you wish. >> I don't need to read it. >> Okay. Well, I'm just trying to help you. And let me tell you something. >> Um, you know, the prosecutor and the other investigators, they want to they want to see you lock lock you up, throw away the key. I I think you're ridiculous.

37:24 >> Listen, just listen to me for two minutes. Let me explain this to you. >> I'm on your side. I talked to you a little bit out there on the scene. >> I know. >> I know you mentioned a couple times you didn't want to be the fall guy for this. Um, you also mentioned to me the other day when I was telling you, hey, I want to check the property out, make sure there's no damage, and you said it doesn't matter. It's over. You know, you make comments like that to me that really concerned me.

37:48 >> Sure. >> Right. It's concerning. And >> what I mean by it's over is that you've already started something here that there's no backing out of. So, you've done the damage is done, I guess, is what I'm saying. That's what I would have been referring to. >> Okay. And I agree with that. We have started this. We've been working on this for a long time and all the evidence is clearly indicating you're involved in this. And listen to me, Rick. I don't believe you're the you should be the fall guy, >> but all the evidence, you say you're out there. We have witnesses out there. We have your vehicle. We have experts. We have experts that say that's you on the video and that's your voice on the video.

38:22 >> Okay. >> Experts, not me, cuz I'm not an expert. >> I got you. >> Okay. And now we have your round. >> Mhm. >> At the scene, >> not on the bridge. You said you're on the bridge. >> I don't even know how my bullet would have gotten out there if that's my bullet. >> There's it's without a doubt that this is very >> okay >> scientific. So, let me show you a picture of this round where it was found.

38:49 That's the round right there. It hadn't been out there very long. That is Liberty's foot. It's within 6 in of of one of the dead girls bodies. There's no way >> it there isn't. >> I'm telling you there's not. >> How How did How did that round get there Rick? >> I don't know how the round got there. What I'm telling you is if that is truly what you're saying it is, it's not my It's not my round.

39:17 >> The scientific experts are saying, I got a report saying that that round came from your gun. >> Okay, but understand this. You were on the bridge. >> I told you I was on the bridge. Listen, right now, like I said, I got a prosecutor and investigators ready to lock you up. And if you don't give us the narrative, if you don't tell us your side of the story, there's two sides to every story. Hang on. >> Okay. >> I'm trying to help you.

39:41 >> I I get that >> the media is going to portray you as this monster and you don't want your watch >> and it's already going to get there anyway. So, >> yeah. So, this is your chance to tell us exactly what happened. >> Unlike some some people, most people, I care what people think about me. And >> then you do. I >> You've already set that ball rolling. >> Yeah. But there's only one way to get out in front of it and that's to tell the truth. What happened that day to to >> I can't tell you what happened that day.

40:05 >> You can tell us. >> There's no there's no doubt in my mind that the evidence clearly indicates that you're involved in this. Are you the Are you the mastermind behind this? I don't know. >> Mastermind. Okay. >> Did somebody else set this up? I don't know, Rick. I want to know. And only you know. The truth will set you free. That's it. The truth will protect you from the >> Well, that's what I would have thought.

40:27 >> Well, tell the truth. Tell me how this round got next to one of our girls in between both girls. >> I don't know. You do know. And if you don't tell me, you're going down for this. >> Okay. Uh the only person I think can explain all this is you. And you're not explaining it to me. >> I don't know what it is you want me to explain. >> What were you doing on the bridge? How did your round get there? And why did you kill these two girls? And why were you involved in this?

40:57 What was your involvement? >> I had no idea. >> I don't think Listen, Rick, I don't think you're the one that that that killed them. I don't think you're the one that stuck the knife in them. >> Are you? >> I didn't even that guy. >> Really? >> Are you asking you? >> I Anybody that knows me knows I could never even if I wanted to do something like that. That's not who I am.

41:20 >> Then what happened? I can't tell you. How do you expect me to tell you? You want me to make up a story and and >> No, the truth. The truth is simple. You don't have to make that up. You just go back and tell me the truth. You can't tell me that this event >> has not been weighing on you for years and years and years. You were out there. >> I told you the truth. I I don't know what you want me to do at this point. I did not murder two.

41:44 >> And I don't think you realize the severity of this. You're You realize the death penalty is on the table for this. >> You know what? I don't really care about living at this point. I've dealt with not wanting to live for seven, eight years now. It's been a long battle. And with what you guys have done to me, kill me. I don't give a You'll make my wife rich. >> So, is there a reason why you have this this wrapped in your little keep safe box?

42:16 You What kind of ammo did you have for your Sig? I don't know. >> Blazer. >> I don't know. >> I'm telling you. >> At that time, >> at that time you had Winchester. >> Okay. >> The round we found was Winchester. The the the ammo you had in your gun and for your gun at the time was Blazer. But this was a Winchester. Says right there, Winchester. Same exact type of round. >> I know. I'm just giving you the opportunity. Like I said, your wife's meal.

42:50 >> Please, please stop giving me the opportunity. >> Well, she says ever since 2017, she's saying that you didn't want to go. She You wouldn't let her go on the search party. She wanted to help. >> And she's saying that >> I think I know my wife. >> Well, I'm just telling you. Want me to bring her in? >> Say some stupid >> You want me to bring her in and tell you? She's telling the truth about what what happened.

43:10 >> You didn't tell her, but you've lied to her for years. Is how she feels right now because And your depression has gotten considerably worse since this incident, which is >> this has been going on for seven, eight years now, >> but it's gotten worse since this since >> Well, it's gotten really bad. >> I could see why. If I killed two girls, I would get >> Oh my god. >> I would have depression, too.

43:35 >> I would have mental issues, too. >> I'm sure you would >> living with this. >> I'm sure you would. >> And that's why you are. Here's what I think Rick. I don't know. only you know. But here's my theory. You're out there. Maybe somebody set this up. Maybe they didn't. Maybe you're out there. Maybe we know you're out there. That that's that's not a theory. That's a fact. We know you had a gun. Girl stole a gun in there.

44:01 We know you we know you have anger issues. Your wife told us before that you have some anger issues and you have depression and you have, you know, those types of issues. And maybe this girl said something to you. I don't know. Maybe you said go down the hill, which we know. The experts say you said go down the hill. You get down there and they, you know, they piss you off for whatever reason. You rack the gun. You didn't realize you racked that gun to scare them and that round popped out. You didn't realize it because maybe do you carry that gun with a with a round chambered or do you not have it chambered?

44:37 >> When I carry it, I would have a round chamber. So you have to get carried also. >> Well, you were carrying it that day cuz girl said >> so if you have one chambered and what I'm saying is if you if I have a round chamber, which I do, and I wrap this gun right now around a fully intact round will pop out. Correct. >> I assume. >> Well, that's what's happened and you didn't realize it. >> Okay. >> And that's why there on the ground and this is your opportunity and and you say that you don't want any of this and that.

45:05 >> Can you please stop giving me opportunities? I I'm not going to sit here and tell you I did something I didn't do. >> I'm not going to tell you I'm involved with something I did. >> Tell me what you did on that day. Help me. >> I didn't two little girls. >> What did you do? >> I went for a walk on the trail and I went home. >> We all can probably agree nothing hits like home cooking. And HelloFresh makes it easier to do more of it even on busy weeks. With over 100 recipes to choose from each week, you can find meals that fit your lifestyle. High protein options, Mediterranean inspired dishes, seasonal favorites, even GLP-1 friendly options. And the best part is the ingredients are wholesome. They are thoughtfully sourced. And they make it simple to put something really good on

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48:26 They're trying to tell me that you actually believe that I did that. And I just can't believe that. >> Trying to figure out that there's a public out there. >> I know. Do you think I'm not? And that's what I told him. But I can't explain something I don't understand. I tried to explain to him that there's no way that a bullet from my gun was at a murder scene because it didn't happen. I didn't even have my gun that day. I went out.

49:08 You know me. >> You know this isn't something I could do. And I know that you know that. You don't have to tell me that. I know. They really think I did this and they want me to believe that. I know, you know, I didn't do this. I guess that's what I'm saying. I I don't know what they're trying to do here. But I'm not going to say something that's not true. And I'm I can't explain something that I don't understand.

49:56 The only way for me to un to explain it is that I don't know because I'm saying it's not possible. There's no way that a bullet from my gun ended up at a murder scene. I didn't murder anybody. I didn't help somebody murder anybody. You know, I'm not even I'm not going to sit here and try to convince you. >> I know you know me. >> I know you know that I didn't do this had anything to do with it. >> Talk about scheming or something.

50:31 >> Yeah. Don't you don't How did you How did a bullet from your gun get out there? I don't know, >> because they say it came from >> I know that's what they're they believe me. That's what they're telling me. >> But how did it get there? >> I don't know. >> They said there was one in your pock above your dresser. >> They showed me that picture, too. I I can't explain it.

51:05 >> And I don't >> I can't either. They keep asking me and I don't know how to answer that. You made a story. >> I understand. Me either. And that's what I'm trying to tell. You want to keep asking me and I just keep telling you. I can't explain it. I don't know how to explain something that isn't possible. But I know this is what I do know. I know that no bullet from my gun was connected with a murder in any way, shape, or form.

51:43 And there's no way a bullet from my gun would have been near Abby and Libbyy's murder or or anything else because I never even seen those girls, period. And I didn't even have my gun that day. So that's what I'm trying to say. I don't know how to make that any clearer. I don't know how to make that any clear. I don't know how to make somebody understand. I get what he's saying. I I don't have a way to explain it. >> And they're like, "There's a witness that said it was you out there." >> I'm I don't know.

52:22 >> Like, how do they know it was you? So they said they showed everything and I'm like, "Of course you were out there." >> If they see me out there, they see me out there, Darren. And I told them on the bridge. >> I told them I was on the bridge. I went out to the first trestle. >> Oh, okay. >> That first thing. >> I remember you telling me that. >> He told me where. So I told you on it, but I didn't.

52:49 >> It doesn't I Hun, you're not in any trouble. You didn't do anything. I didn't do anything. Huh? >> I didn't know you were on it. I'm sorry. >> Well, don't worry about it. I Huh. >> You were. >> Huh? >> You told me you weren't. So, I just >> No, I told you that I walk. >> I love you, baby.

53:26 They don't know what they're trying to do but >> I know that's not what I told you. I love you. >> At this point, both Richard and the detective were getting very frustrated and things really started to boil over. >> Yes, you do. There is no way that evidence is going to show that I did this. in here. Red, >> you got one piece of evidence that I can't explain >> multiple. I'm not showing you my wholeing hand here.

53:55 >> I don't care. I'm showing you I'm done talking. >> Now you're going to drag your wife and your daughter through this because you're too bullheaded to get out in front of this and you made a mistake. >> And whatever the happened out there, we'll never know because you're too big of a >> So, go ahead. >> So, tell you I did something. Tell me the truth the truth, Rick. I don't know.

54:18 >> I've told you the truth and you don't want to hear it. >> The evidence tells me otherwise. The evidence clearly indicates you're involved in this. Iting does. >> It doesn't. I'm telling you that there is no way that a bullet from my gun was used in these murders. >> And I'm telling you that we had this round on February 14th, 2017. has been secured in a laboratory and we've tested other guns >> that people that we >> I understand what you're saying.

54:49 >> I want her to hear those. >> I understand what you're saying. What I'm telling you is I can't explain something I don't understand. >> Well, the science explained it for you. >> The the lab analysis of analysts have have explained that for you. They're saying that this round without a doubt came from your gun. Then you told me taking it from somewhere else then >> because it's not possible. >> I did not take it from somewhere else.

55:12 It was loaded in. It was taken a photograph. You think we took a round and threw it down by a that girl split. This ain't TV. You're involved in this. You're around say Rick. >> No. See, you're getting pissed off. I understand. >> I am pissed off. Did you not see my wife? >> Did you not see these two girls dead? No. That did not happen. You got You're pissed off Adam. YOU DRAGGED HIM DOWN A HILL and you killed for a reason. NOT BECAUSE somebody >> You're trying to tell me that I'm not making this round up, Rick. It is what it is.

55:54 >> I'm done talking. Arrest me. Happy to be happy to cuz I tried to help you and you wouldn't do it. Despite maintaining his innocence, Richard was then indicted by a grand jury on the murder charges. With all the evidence against him, I mean, the bridge guy video, the car, the bullet, his lawyers really were scrambling to come up with a solid defense. And then in September of 2023, we got a look into their strategy, the defense strategy. And that was when they filed a 136-page document that basically laid out their theory of what they think happened to Abby and Libby. and they threw the blame in a completely different direction than anybody expected because what they were claiming was that Abby and Libby were sacrificed by a cult. Rumors from an alleged witness at the scene stated that there were sticks arranged on the girl's bodies, which sparked the initial

56:47 speculation of a cult's involvement from the very beginning. And the new documents state that there was actually evidence discovered at the crime scene that indicates cult involvement consisting of symbols resembling runes made out of sticks and constructed with tree branches. So the defense is arguing that these symbols were clear signatures left behind by individuals in a cult called Odinism. They accused both prosecutors and several law enforcement officers of concealing information regarding the odonist ties to the murders. I think all of us assumed that this crime scene was horrific and knew that going into it, but I don't think anyone would have been able to imagine just how heinous it actually was based on the description. According to the document, Libby was found at the base of a tree with four branches intentionally placed in a very specific and arranged pattern on her body. Libby was

57:43 positioned flat on her back, nude, with her left arm stretched above her head, touching the base of the tree. Libbyy's hands were covered in blood. Blood spots and blood drippings were seen all over Libbyy's body from head to toe. Libbyy's right arm was placed along the side of her body. One large tree branch had been placed over her left shoulder. This branch was so long that it extended above Libbyy's head several feet and below her legs for several feet as well. Two smaller branches formed a V where her legs joined her body near her pelvic region with both sides of the V extending upward toward Libby's head.

58:23 The last of the four branches extended across Libbyy's body in a line from her right shoulder to her left shoulder. This fourth tree branch also connected with the other three branches and was placed under both branches that formed the V. Libbyy's neck was partially covered by this fourth branch. There appeared to be no blood spraying or dripping onto the leaves or the tree near Libbyy's head or near her sliced neck, making it likely that Libby had been killed at a nearby tree and then dragged to her final resting place where she was staged. The murderers treated Abby very differently, though. She was found just a few feet away from Libby, placed at an angle with her legs a few feet from Libbyy's legs. Now, unlike Libby, Abby was fully clothed. In fact, Abby was dressed in Libbyy's sweatshirt and jeans. No blood appeared on Aby's clothing either, meaning that she was

59:20 likely murdered while naked and then dressed by the murderers after she died and after the blood had stopped coming out of her neck. Aby's hands and feet also had no blood on them. Other than the blood found around Aby's neck area where the murderers would have inflicted the fatal wound. Very little, if any, blood was found anywhere else on Aby's body or clothing. The murderers appeared to have gone to great lengths to keep Aby's body and clothing clean from blood. Abby was found on her back.

59:51 However, her elbows were bent with her right and left arms both placed on her chest. Aby's left hand and arm near the left side of her face and her right hand and arm near the right side of her face. Also, her left leg was straight while her right leg was bent at the knee. The murderers also placed her bent right leg under her left leg. Then, like Libby, those involved in the murder had placed tree branches in a very specific pattern on top of Abby. The pattern looks very similar to an asterct consisting of three tree branches all joined in the middle. At least one of those tree branches appears to have been cleanly cut by some sort of instrument such as a saw rather than being split or broken by a hand or a leg or something like that, indicating that this was a preconceived plan. Then above Aby's head, there were smaller sticks that had been placed over her hair, crudely mimicking horns or

1:00:50 antlers. The amount of blood that would be perhaps expected at this kind of crime scene based upon the location of the injuries of both girls was not visible at all. In addition to the unusual way that the girls were posed, including the stick formations placed on their bodies, another unusual marking was found on a nearby tree. A symbol that looked similar to the letter F appeared approximately 4 feet above the base of the tree. The F was red in color, and later DNA testing showed that the F had been painted on that tree using Libbyy's blood as the so-called paint. Additional blood spatter was found at the base of that same tree. All of the blood at the base of the tree appears to have been Libbyy's blood as well. The stick configuration on Abby resembles the rune called Hegel. This rune is used to depict the word hail.

1:01:47 Therefore, the combination of the Hegel rune found on Abby and the rune that was found on the tree, when combined would proclaim hail Odin. The defense team speculates that because of the lack of blood visible in the crime scene photos, especially the lack of blood concerning Abby, that the murderers may have saved the blood to be used in future rituals. But just as the defense was building their Odinism theory, a very serious wrench was like thrown into their plans by Richard himself because while in prison, Richard confessed to the murders. And I don't mean just once or in a fleeting moment or under pressure.

1:02:24 He literally confessed over 60 times in person, in writing, even in recorded jail calls with his wife and mom. >> Are you there? >> Are you? >> Yes, babe. Yeah, babe. >> What's going on? >> I just wanted to apologize to you. >> What's going on? >> I did it. >> No, I did it. >> What? I killed Abby. I killed Abby and Libby. >> No, you didn't. >> Yes, I did.

1:03:00 >> No, you didn't, Darren. >> Yes, I did. >> Don't say >> I don't know why. >> No, you didn't. >> No, you didn't, dear. You're not feeling well. There's something wrong. They've messed up your meds or something there. No, I I mean I evidently did it. >> No, you didn't. Why would you say that? >> Because maybe I did. >> No, you didn't, dear.

1:03:38 >> I think I did. >> No, you didn't. They are screwing with you there. And I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. There is something wrong. They are messing with you. They are messing with your mind. They have done something to your food or they've done something to your neck. There's something about that you ever say you did anything cuz I know you didn't. >> I think I did. >> No, you didn't. Why would you say that?

1:04:19 >> Cuz I think I did. >> No, you didn't. You know you didn't. >> I wish I could say I didn't. I don't know. >> You don't know. See, exactly. There's something wrong. They're screwing with you. They're trying to get you to say things. They're trying to mess with your mind. You know, I'd be safer, I guess. >> There's something wrong. No, you don't. >> I just wish they would kill me or let me apologize to the families at least.

1:05:02 >> Dear, don't talk anymore. Just don't talk anymore. Okay. You didn't know that I did that. >> What? No. One minute. Dear, there's no way. There's no way, dear. >> There. There's no way. Okay. Please go love me. >> I always will love you, honey. But no, you have not done anything >> and I think you are not well. So, you don't need to be saying you did something you didn't do. >> This is the first time I've been able to talk to you and I've been trying forever.

1:06:10 Were you just not allowed to call me or >> I don't know what's going on. >> Okay. >> You definitely didn't mind now. I'm supposed to be meeting Brad here for

1:06:37 >> personal visitation and >> I know I know >> then it's taken me feel like it's taking me forever. You have one minute remaining. >> Are you there? >> Yeah, I'm here. >> I'm just trying to be at peace with things. And

1:07:13 >> I just I had a dream that I needed to let you go and I didn't know how to let you go. And >> well, when you're dreaming stuff again, okay, that's all it is. You don't don't be talking about anything. Okay. But I have to let you know that I did it. >> Dear, no you didn't. >> There's no way. >> I messed you up so bad. >> It's okay, honey. I did it. >> I did it, dear.

1:07:56 >> Stop. I cannot stop. I've got somebody listening to me right now dear. >> No, I did it. >> I don't care. >> I killed No, you didn't. Stop. Stop saying that. >> I knew I was supposed to let you go. I was trying to let you go. Stop. >> I'm just worried that you guys aren't going to love me because of fact that I said that I did it. Ricky, I just know you're not in a good place right now and I'm praying for you and we will always love you, no matter what.

1:09:13 But just saying it doesn't mean you did it. Well, it does when I did. >> Rick, don't call click there. I think they're just messing with you. >> No, mom, we're not.

1:09:48 I love you though. >> What are you doing? I love you too, hun. >> I just know you don't have it in you to do something like that. Mom, I wouldn't sit here and tell you I did it if I didn't. >> Well, if they're messing with your meds and all that, yeah, you would. >> But according to the defense, Richard didn't make these confessions on his own free will. They say that Richard was coerced into making them after being held in solitary confinement after being given psychiatric medications against his will and also because he was threatened by prison staff. And according to Richard's lawyers, this was all because the staff was full of Odinist cult members. Cult members who needed Richard to take the fall for the murders. They said that they personally witnessed guards wearing Odinist patches

1:10:56 and were the ones always seen with Richard. They claimed that the men wearing the patches on their uniforms were always within earshot of any of Richard's conversations and also always monitoring him. They believed that they possibly threatened to kill his family, which caused Richard to ask over and over in every meeting with them if his family was alive, if they were okay, and if they were safe. It was like Richard was afraid that someone was going to kill his family, possibly the Odinist cult. The defense also stated that after it came out that they knew about the possible Odin connection, that the guards miraculously stopped wearing those patches. The defense further said that the conditions that Richard was kept in were so poor and the guilt that he felt after falsely confessing over 60 times was so intense that his physical and mental health both started to rapidly decline. And it's true, he lost

1:11:51 a ton of weight. He also refused to eat any of the prison meals and he refused to sleep in the prison beds. And it was weird. After each confession, his behavior would just get super weird. like he would start drinking out of the toilet. He would start eating paper documents from his attorneys. He even at some point was eating his own feces. So, in light of Richard's declining state, his defense team quickly filed a request to have him transferred to a different facility. But the judge denied it almost immediately. And that was far from the only hurdle that the defense was up against. In October of 2023, private crime scene photos were leaked to the media. and they were leaked from the defense's own office. And these images included images of showing exactly how Abby and Libby were found. And remember, Libby was found nude. So, this wasn't just them compromising the integrity of

1:12:43 the investigation or retraumatizing the families. It was basically distributing sexual and violent images of a child. Now, the defense blamed it on a third party, saying, "They stole the photos from the lawyer's office. That's who is responsible." But whether or not that's true, I mean, it's just gross. It's disgusting and a huge violation to the girls. Truly. And the judge in the case felt the exact same way. The same day as the leak, the judge announced that Richard's entire defense team was withdrawing from the case. And not because they wanted to, but because the court was basically forcing them to withdraw after this leak. But a month later, Richard appealed that decision.

1:13:23 He appealed it to the Indiana Supreme Court arguing that by removing his original lawyers, it violated his right to a fair trial and they actually agreed. And so his old lawyers were put right back on the case. However, the defense got an even bigger blow after that because the judge ruled that they were not allowed to bring up any single mention of Odinism, rituals, any cult behavior. none of that was going to be allowed in the trial at all. Now, we know that that was the theory that the defense was working on. That was the theory that they were relying on. So, when that happened, a lot of people were kind of wondering what they were going to say in Richard's defense instead.

1:14:03 Now, what were they going to use as his defense when the trial finally started on October 18th, 2024? So, the trial began and at the very beginning of the trial, the prosecutor laid out their theory of the case and they also explained what they believe Richard's motive was. According to them, Richard intended to assault the girls, but something interrupted him. So, instead, he forced them down that hill before ultimately killing them. And according to the prosecution, in order to find Richard guilty, all the jury needed to do was believe his own words and his own confessions, which they argued were rock solid because those confessions included details that only the killer would have known at the time. For example, Richard mentioned that a white van had passed by as the girls were forced down the hill, also that their bodies were covered with branches. Now, of course, we all know

1:14:55 these things now if you've been following the case. But this apparently was not public knowledge at the time of Richard's confession. So, in their view, the only way that Richard could have known those specifics is if he's the one who did it. But the defense, they fired back and they said that Richard's admissions were all coerced and that they came only after he had suffered that serious trauma in prison, including being locked in solitary confinement for 13 months and being forced to take a very intense anti-csychotic medication.

1:15:26 They also showed the jury footage of Richard's treatment in jail, including clips of him being naked and physically restrained despite having no disciplinary infractions on record. The defense also pointed out that Richard didn't just confess to this murder. He confessed to a whole list of things that just never even happened. I mean, we're talking about claims that he shot the girls, killed his own family, they assaulted his sister and his daughter, the like a wide variety of things. Now, of course, we know that Abby and Libby were not shot. Also, no one in Richard's family was killed. Richard's sister and daughter also testified that they had never been assaulted. So why would he have admitted to so many different things that were simply untrue? Again, this was the defense's arguments. I mean, in other words, the defense was arguing that if someone is confessing to

1:16:17 crimes that are completely false, that you can demonstrate are false, then how much weight should any of those confessions really carry, especially when they're coming from someone who is under extreme psychological pressure? and then they went after the prosecution's case as a whole, arguing that it was botched from the very beginning. Today's episode is sponsored by Wayfair. Now, the new year is here, and if you're anything like me, that means you like to reset your entire space and like get into a routine, purge a lot of things, get new like items for the rooms, for the house, just like reset everything.

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1:19:10 That's stitchfix.com/telife. stitchfix.com/10entolife. According to them, evidence was mishandled. It was mislabeled. It was lost. Some of it was even destroyed. For example, they said that several other suspects had actually confessed to the murders, but that those confession recordings were conveniently taped over. In another example, the sticks and the branches that were found on the girl's bodies weren't even collected as evidence by the investigators. Which honestly, I have to say, I do agree with the defense on that one. I don't understand how sticks that are laying directly on top of murder victims and sticks that are covered in blood wouldn't be considered evidence, and you wouldn't take those with you. I mean, to me, at the very least, that does show that the investigators made some serious errors when it came to handling the crime scene. And finally, the defense

1:20:09 pointed out that the prosecution's entire case and their timeline, it just doesn't work because that security video shows Richard's car leaving the trail before the murders even happened. The prosecution though, they didn't seem too worried about the defense's arguments because they still did have some key testimony that they were holding up their sleeves, including no less than four witnesses who saw Bridgeu Guy on the day of the murders. First, there was Riley Vice and her friend Brienne Wilbur, who said that Bridgeu Guy glared at them as they walked near the Freedom Bridge Trail. Then he was spotted by Betsy Blair who said that she saw him on the high bridge which later on her way back toward Freedom Bridge saw Abby and Libby. And Bets's testimony was pretty solid because she also had a Fitbit that had its data to back up all of her statements and you know track her

1:21:02 whereabouts and where she walked to at what time. So that was a rockolid witness. And then finally, Sarah Carbaugh testified and she said that she saw bridge guy walking along the side of the road and that he was covered in mud and blood. This was around 400 p.m. So, all in all, it painted a pretty dark picture of Bridge Guy's movements that day, but the defense pushed back on all four stories. Riley and Brienne claimed to have seen Bridge Guy near the Freedom Bridge trails at around 2:15 p.m. Yet, Libbyy's video proved that he was almost a mile away at the other high bridge at that exact time. And Brienne also described Bridge Guy as very tall, which Richard definitely isn't. Plus, Riley, Brienne, and Betsy all described him as quite young, no more than 30 years old, but Richard was 44 years old at the time. And as for Sarah, the defense pointed out that her story changed

1:21:59 several times. She had originally told police the bridge guy was wearing a tan jacket, which of course doesn't match Libbyy's video or what Richard was actually wearing. So there was a lot of push and pull and going back and forth with these witnesses. But to summarize, all four witnesses gave descriptions that seem to rule out Richard as bridge guy. But you know what gets me? All of them do describe seeing the only man on the trails that day, Bridge Guy. So, if the defense's story is true, shouldn't at least one of them have seen both Bridge and Richard? I mean, it's hard to not start thinking that Richard and Bridgeu guy might actually be the same person when all of these witnesses are confident that Bridgeu was the only man on the trails that day. So, then after all of this, the trial then moved on to discussing electronic data. And the defense pointed out that all of the

1:22:49 devices in Richard's house, you know, those 23 phones, not a single one of them showed any communication to or about Abby and Libby. But the prosecution was kind of like, "Okay, well, hold up. That's because the one phone that actually mattered was conveniently missing in all of this. out of all of the dozens of phones that Richard hoarded, the one that he used back in 2017, has never been found, which honestly is a little bit suspicious for a guy that like hoards phones and has so many of them. Like, where's your main one? Then there's also the fact that Richard originally told investigators that he went to the trails that day to browse a stock trading site.

1:23:28 Yet, there was no evidence of his cell phone accessing that site on any of the nearby towers, which is really weird because we know that the trail received at least some internet connection because Libbyy's phone kept pinging. And that's really not the only suspicious thing that Richard did around the time of the murders. Shortly afterward, he also changed the description of himself on his own license. He added 2 in to his height and he took off 15 pounds from his weight, which look, I mean, a lot of people want to be taller and skinnier. I get that. I think I even am a few pounds lighter on my license, but is it what was it an innocent change or could this have been another tactic to try and throw off the police? Then multiple days of the trial were dedicated to discussing each side's theory about Richard's gun and the bullet that was found between the girls. The

1:24:16 prosecution's firearm expert said that the bullet and the gun were definitely a match. She explained that three different parts of cartilage, the ejector, the extractor, and the chamber face of the barrel were analyzed and that they matched to Richard's gun. But the defense really questioned how valid her comparisons were. For example, the firearm analyst took Richard's gun, fired it, and then compared those bullets to the one found at the scene. But remember, the bullet that was found at the scene wasn't actually fired. It had only been cycled through the gun.

1:24:48 So, the defense said it makes no sense to compare a cycled round to a fired one. We also learned that all firearm testing has at least a 2% rate of false positives, which that means in at least one out of every 50 cases, a bullet is identified as a match to a gun when it actually isn't. And that's kind of scary to think about. I mean, it's not a huge chance. I get that. But it definitely is possible, and all you need is reasonable doubt. So, finally, it turns out that before receiving Richard's gun in October of 2022, the prosecution's own firearm expert had already received three other guns for comparison to the bullet, and she was not able to exclude any of them as having produced the bullet. And to me, look, I'm going to be honest, that's pretty damning evidence against Richard's gun being a definitive match. I mean, how strong of a match can

1:25:39 it really be if a bunch of other guns could also have fired that same bullet, right? If she couldn't exclude them, that means any of them could have fired it. But that still leaves a big question. If the jury is supposed to believe that Richard didn't do it, who did? Remember, by this point, Keegan had been cleared, Ron was dead, and any mention of a cult was completely off the table. So, instead, the defense put forward a two killer theory. They argued that there is no way that one person could have killed both girls without anybody noticing, especially because Abby was killed so carefully that no blood was even left behind. Now, according to the defense, bridge guy and another person assaulted the girls at the south end of the bridge, then loaded them up into a car and drove away. Then, about 12 hours later, they killed the girls near Deer Creek and dumped their bodies. Now, I know as far-fetched as

1:26:36 all of that sounds, the defense did have some evidence to back it up. For one, the medical examiner agreed that it was possible that multiple weapons could have been used to kill the girls, which makes more sense if there was more than one killer. Plus, the backside of Libbyy's legs were covered in debris. So, this added weight to the theory that she was killed off site and then dragged for a little while to the spot where she was eventually found. And there was one more big detail that supported the defense's theory. Well, I should say that many believed supported their theory. According to the prosecution's timeline, the girls were killed sometime around 400 p.m. But it turns out that headphones were plugged into the audio jack on Libbyy's phone at 5:45 p.m. on the day of the murders. and they stayed connected for 5 hours before being unplugged, which really makes it seem

1:27:27 like maybe somebody was messing with the girl's phone, if not the girls themselves, much later than we originally thought. Now, could she have just left her headphones plugged in the whole time and then somebody unplugged them 5 hours later after they were done with everything? Possibly. It's, you know, for you to decide. But when it was all said and done, it was finally time for closing statements. And the prosecution highlighted their key evidence. Bridge guy video, the Bridge Guy audio, witnesses placing Richard at the scene, the bullet found between the girls that matched Richard's gun, and also of course the dozens and dozens and dozens of confessions, which according to the prosecution, those confessions included details that only the killer would know. The defense, on the other hand, they argued that the prosecution's evidence ultimately doesn't point to

1:28:14 Richard. There was no DNA, no fingerprints, no murder weapon, and no real connection between Richard and the girls. The witnesses who saw Bridge Guy also described somebody young, tall, and wearing a tan jacket, which definitely doesn't sound like Richard. They also claimed that the prosecution's ballistic analysis was pseudocience, and that all of Richard's confessions had been, like I said, coerced. So with that justice for Abby and Libby and Richard's fate, it was in the hands of the jury.

1:28:45 Finally, on November 11th, 2024, after 4 days of deliberations, the jury reached a decision. They found Richard Allen guilty of the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German. On Friday, December 20th, 2024, Richard was sentenced to 65 years for Aby's murder and 65 years for Libbyy's murder. Both sentences to run consecutively. ultimately putting him away for 130 years. And during sentencing, the judge called Richard one of the most heinous criminals in all of Indiana. After the sentencing, prosecuting attorney Nicholas Mleand thanked Abby and Libby for helping catch their own killer, saying that Libby had the wherewithal to realize that something wasn't right and pull out her phone. Now, since Libbyy's phone was found under Aby's body, he said that Abby had the good sense to try to hide the phone from their killer so that law enforcement could eventually find it.

1:29:41 Saying that even during the most terrifying moments of their young lives, the girls managed to provide the single biggest piece of evidence to solve their own murders. Despite this small bit of solace, the pain for the families is endless. Libbyy's grandmother, Becky, says that she still struggles with the guilt of letting the girls go to the trails that day. Libby's mother, Carrie, says that even though Libby would now be in her 20s, the family can't even bear the pain of celebrating her birthday anymore. Aby's grandmother, Diane, said that Aby's last words in Libbyy's phone were quote, "Don't leave me up here." So, because of those words, she didn't even allow herself to leave the trial.

1:30:21 Even during the graphic testimony, she honored those words for herself. And sadly, the heartbreaking journey for these families and for everybody who has been affected by this, it was far from over. In December of 2025, Richard's defense team filed a 113page appeal outlining why his conviction should be overturned. Their main points were first, that the search of Richard's home was unconstitutional, so anything found during it should be thrown out. Second, that the confessions made by Richard while he was in jail should not have been played during the trial because he was clearly in a psychotic state. And third, that they weren't able to present a complete defense at trial because they weren't allowed to mention any of the Odinism or cult theories. And while I do agree with some of the defense's points, I also think that it would be pretty wild if after all of

1:31:12 this time, after all of the suspects, and after the whole trial, if everything were to come undone because of an appeal. I've seen crazier things happen, but who knows? Overall, this case is really complex, and it's hard to know what to think. There is so much evidence that seems to point in every single direction, and overall, I don't really know what to think. At first, I thought that the bullet evidence was kind of like the nail in the coffin for Richard. But now that we know that the ballistic analysis is kind of a question mark, it has me second guessing a little bit. I mean, then again, the confessions, those really are damning in all of this. Yet still, there is no direct evidence tying him to the girls. So, I don't know. I see both sides of the argument. Both sides have made compelling cases. I don't know. It's really hard to say.

1:31:59 Like I said, my goal here was to lay out the facts of both sides without too much drama or bias because I know that this is a very controversial case. But I'm really curious to know what you guys think. Do you think that they got the guy that Richard Allen is the one? Or do you think maybe somebody else is responsible out there? That this wasn't Richard? I mean, regardless what you think and which side of the argument you're on, the saddest part about this case that we can all agree on is that two beautiful young girls with their whole lives ahead of them, their lives were taken from them. While they were scared, confused, and in pain. And that is just absolutely heartbreaking. And it's heartbreaking to think of all that they had to go through and all that their families have had to go through.

1:32:41 So, I really hope that by reopening this case, I've been able to shed some more light on their stories and what they experienced and hopefully maybe have you question a few things. Maybe if you were on the other side and you thought he was innocent this whole time, now do you still think that? Or if you thought he was guilty, now are you questioning that? What do you believe? Let me know in the comments. Before you go, don't forget to hit subscribe on YouTube and follow the podcast on your podcast app so that you don't miss future episodes.

1:33:07 I'm Annie Eliss and as always, thank you for tuning in to another episode of Tend to Life Reopened. Stay safe. Bye.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "The Delphi Murders: Did They Get the Wrong Guy?"?

Annie Eliss (Host), Richard Allen (Guest), Bridge Guy (Guest), Derek (Guest), Becky (Guest), Kelsey (Guest).

What is "The Delphi Murders: Did They Get the Wrong Guy?" about?

The episode examines the Delphi murders of Abby Williams and Libby German, focusing on the investigation, the arrest of Richard Allen, and the ensuing controversy over whether the suspect was correctly identified, with attention to the trial, evidence, confessions, and competing theories of guilt.

What is mentioned in this Annie Elise episode?

25 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Richard Allen, Bruce German, Nolan Williams, Annie Eliss, Deli, Indiana, Hugh Logan. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The Delphi Murders: Did They Get the Wrong Guy?"?

The episode runs 1 h 33 min; the transcript is about 16,103 words in 134 timestamped sections.

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