Transcript

Cher | Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

From Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 2 h 6 min · 25,131 words · 751 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Cher | Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard", an episode of Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard published January 5, 2026 (2 h 6 min, about 25,131 words). It mentions 31 people, works and ideas, including Believe, MC Cher, Sunny, Eminem, Burlesque.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 15:00: Burlesque, Aaron Weekley, Believe, Closer to the Truth
  2. – 30:00: Believe, Prim Nevada
  3. – 45:00: Phil Spector
  4. – 1:00:00: Believe, Nicholas Cage, Lucy Ares, Share Inc.
  5. – 1:15:00: Burlesque
  6. – 1:30:00: Believe, Brandon Maxwell, Golden Globe
  7. – 1:45:00: Affinity Gaming, Prim Nevada
  8. – 2:00:00: Believe
  9. – 2:05:54: Eminem, 8 Mile, Believe, Clarkston

Notable quotes from "Cher | Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard"

  • She's an icon whether she wants to believe it or not.
    about Believe · at
  • Thanks. We're going to see Wicked today.
    about Wicked · at
  • And what do you remember about young Kristen Bell? Did you go, Oh, yeah.
    about Kristen Bell · at
  • And I was curious, is that Prim Nevada?
    about Prim Nevada · at
  • Yeah. So for people don't know the end of the Phil Spector story way later.
    about Phil Spector · at
  • Geffin looks at this contract and says to you, Do you realize 100% of this money goes to a company called Share Inc. that is owned 95% by Sunny and 5% by his lawyer?
    about Share Inc. · at
  • Ask you about because I'm so obsessed with him, but what was happening on Moonruck with you and Nicholas Cage?
    about Nicholas Cage · at
  • Eminem was five of the top 10. Oh wow.
    about Eminem · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • MC Cher — Person · 5 mentions
  • Sunny — Person · 5 mentions
  • Eminem — Person · 4 mentions · first at
  • David Geffen — Person · 3 mentions
  • Phil Spector — Person · 2 mentions · first at
  • Nicholas Cage — Person · 2 mentions · first at
  • Dak Shepard — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard. I'm joined by Monica Padman and best friend Aaron Weekley. Hi.
  • Aaron Weekley — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard. I'm joined by Monica Padman and best friend Aaron Weekley. Hi.
  • Kristen Bell — Person · 1 mention · first at
  • Lucy Ares — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Okay, so you guys get divorced. I also think it's really interesting you did reach out to Lucy Ares. I love Lucy. And for people don't know that history, she too was in business with her husband on a show and my mom was on that show.
  • Brandon Maxwell — Person · 1 mention · first at
    But it makes sense. So, there's a designer that I love, an amazing designer, Brandon Maxwell. He is an armchair.
  • Lana Clarkson — Person · 1 mention · first at
    The other people who did Phil Spectre murder? M he murdered actress Lana Clarkson finding her dead from a gunshot wound in his California mansion in 2003. He was later convicted of secondderee murder and sentenced to 19 years to life.
  • MC Hammer — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Yeah. Like MC Hammer's above him, right, in like number eight or some [ __ ] with the, no one's wearing those pants and.
  • Desi — Person · 1 mention
  • Luca Del Bono — Person · 1 mention
  • Meryl Streep — Person · 1 mention
  • Robert Altman — Person · 1 mention
  • Share — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

  • Believe — Book · 8 mentions · first at
  • Burlesque — Book · 3 mentions · first at
    Is. Her albums, Believe, Heart of Stone, Closer to the Truth, Moonruck, Burlesque Ding.
  • Heart of Stone — Book · 1 mention · first at
    She doesn't want to believe it, but she is. Her albums, Believe, Heart of Stone, Closer to the Truth, Moonruck, Burlesque Ding.
  • Closer to the Truth — Book · 1 mention · first at
    She doesn't want to believe it, but she is. Her albums, Believe, Heart of Stone, Closer to the Truth, Moonruck, Burlesque Ding.
  • Wicked — Book · 1 mention · first at
  • The Lion King — Book · 1 mention · first at
    No, I've just seen The Lion King because we have a six-year-old and he's really precocious. he and I were chasing his dad. No, his dad ended up chasing us and I had a.
  • Moonstruck — Book · 1 mention

Companies & orgs

  • Share Inc. — Company · 1 mention · first at
  • Affinity Gaming — Company · 1 mention · first at
    So the casinos and resorts in Prim Nevada are primarily owned and operated by Affinity Gaming, though they were originally developed by the Prim family, Ernest and Gary Prim.

Concepts & topics

  • Golden Globe — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Think it's going to be a good one. It's going to be a good year. I feel it. So, we're going to the Golden Globe. So exciting.
  • 8 Mile — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    No he grew up in Okay. Yeah. 8 Mile the movie I guess. All right. We really did it here.

Places & events

  • Prim Nevada — Place · 2 mentions · first at
  • Clarkston — Place · 1 mention · first at
    It's like wait this dude grew up in Clarkston by me. Is that where he grew up?

Full transcript with timestamps

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard. I'm joined by Monica Padman and best friend Aaron Weekley. Hi.

Happy New Year, Armcher. Happy New Year. Happy New Year. Another year together.

Another year together. Let's go really hard in 2026. It's just to remind everyone, it's an even number. That's a good start.

We like it. Uh and we're starting the year with an enormous bang. Share. Share. One of the first and original single named

It's true. Sher is a singer, an actor, an activist, a philanthropist, and an icon.

She's an icon whether she wants to believe it or not. She doesn't want to believe it, but she is. Her albums, Believe, Heart of Stone, Closer to the Truth, Moonruck, Burlesque Ding Ding Ding.

Uh, and she has and I've I'm on record over this last year, so you know, I'm not fluffing any pillows. Um, I read this book last year and I absolutely loved it and recommended it to everybody. her book, which we're here to talk about. Share the memoir part one, is a [ __ ] action-packed thrill ride. I recommend it so much. Please enjoy. Share.

He's an object. I hope you have backups. That's not enough Dr. Pepper for anybody.

Yes, it is. That's a joke. That amount of Dr. Pepper. Please, mama, join us. Yes. Come here.

No. Right there. I like your outfit. Thanks. We're going to see Wicked today. Oh, cool.

So, I'm aventizing it. Do you have Wicked fever like Kristen does? I'm really interested. I didn't see the first one.

Did you see the Broadway play? No, I've just seen The Lion King because we have a six-year-old

and he's really precocious. I mean, he and I were chasing his dad. No, his dad ended up chasing us and and I had a guard there and he goes up to the guard and he takes his face and he goes, "My dad's a psychopath."

Oh, wow. So, yeah, he's very precocious. Okay. And you know when they say like um when someone tells you who they are on a date, listen, you've heard this term.

You could probably say their children, too. If their children declare them a psychopath, maybe we look into it.

He's not. Do you like being around a little person? Yes. Yeah. Before I met him, I walked around my house saying, "I want a man and a toddler."

You declared it to the universe. I want a man and a toddler. Yes. Okay. I wasn't expecting them maybe together, but that's what I wanted.

You wanted both of those things. And if they came as a pair of expecting them separately,

but not in the same person. Oh, great question. You don't want your man to behave like a child.

No. Well, except in the bedroom. No, no, no. Uh, but he's he's funny. He's really funny. Now, I want to tell you that you were going to come in when the book was coming out a while ago. And so, what I do when we have a guest and if they have a book, I start reading it. But if they cancel, I stop reading the book cuz I no longer need to read the book and I've got to read other books. But you cancelled and I go, "Fuck, I'm going to finish this thing." Like, I love your book.

Thank you. Yeah. I kept just motoring through. I have the other one, too. Part two. Yes.

But you have no idea how hard it is to write a book. I mean, it was written a couple of times and then when I read it, I thought, "This is not going to happen."

It's incredibly honest. Yeah. What were the parts of the first versions that you had to throw away? Were you like, "Oh, it's not honest enough."

It wasn't me. It I talked to a lady who was English, not happening. It wasn't her fault. Then I tried with a girl that was really sweet and I loved her, but it wasn't happening. And then my friend Eric Roth, I called him and was like, "Eric, I am so screwed. I need somebody." And he said, "Well, I have somebody." And he sent her over. And then we started and it just started to work. And I would say everything and it just kind of started to fall in place.

So was it that she was not intimidated by you or she wasn't afraid to corral you? What did she do that was a good fit?

She let me speak the way I speak. Uhhuh. because of the other ones. It just didn't sound like me and it was like what? What? Why? What? You know what is this?

Yeah. So, I never read it. Did you not do the audio version? Did you? No. No. Because I'm just like say I started each chapter.

I know this cuz I actually did consume a lot of it over audio and I'm now remembering that. Yeah. You said I would love to read this to you, but I just am not a good reader so I'll [ __ ] up this good story. I went uh for my first job was like oh so [ __ ] up but it was for Robert Alman and I only got it because my mom and Robert were friends and my mom woke him up. Didn't know it was him cuz she had my number in New York and his number right underneath each other.

Uhhuh. And so she said is share there. Woke him up. He was furious. He's kind of a big bear. Well, he's dead now but anyway he was a big bear. and he said, "What the [ __ ] would Cher be doing here?" And he she said, "She wants to be an actress and she was doing an audition for Joe Pap." And then he called me.

No kidding. Yeah. And I thought it was a joke and he said, "Um, I'm going to send a script over. I'm not offering you anything." I read it and I knew who he wanted me to be. And he called me and I went, "I don't I can't find this person. I can't do it." He said, "Have you got a job?" And I said, "No." And he said, "Well, then I don't know what you're talking about. be here tomorrow. And I said, "Okay, I can act or I can read, but I can't do both at the same time."

And he said, "Be here tomorrow." Oh, what a blessing. Sandy Dennis said it was the worst reading she's ever heard.

Okay. And she had heard a lot. Yeah. Yeah. How did you over time get good at reading scripts and being able to memorize them?

I can read. I can't read and speak the lines. I mean, if you could have seen me um trying to read the beginning of the book, how horrible was it, Jen?

Out of 10, Jen, three. Wow. And you guys work together, so that's probably a one.

Yeah, we've worked together for a million years. She probably bumped it up one.

Yeah. Um, okay. We're joined by a lovely lady, um, my bride Kristen. And for anyone who wouldn't remember, you guys are ex co-stars. And what is your memory, hun, of finding out? Was Sher in the cast before you or after? We're talking about burlesque

before. Certainly. She was first in. Careful there. Certainly. I was not attached before Sher was attached. I was cast in a movie that Sher was starring in

called Burlesque. And I was very excited because it was Sher Christina Aguilera. Also, it could have been a really good fun movie except for you know who. Except for both of them.

Okay. Kristen being not cast members. Not cast members. It was a hard shoot. It was hard.

I was present. I was present. Can we reveal anything today? Well, what I can say is that what I I think I can say not being involved with it was there was a romantic relationship happening uh for people that were very high above.

Yes. Uh and that was playing out on set quite frequently and dramatically and uniquely to anyone that's been in show business.

There was another thing that I cannot mention, but I can't mention it. Look at me really hard in the eyes and convey it to me.

Oh, no. Okay. So, what if we really got it? Then the song that I did in the movie, he said, "I cutting that song out cuz I don't want Sher to ruin my movie."

What? Okay. Okay. I didn't know that. Yeah. You remember? But you remember how I remember a lot of drama, but I also remember the way

how funny I am. Yes. The way you get or at least the way I get through dramatic or chaotic situations is to find someone to hold hands with in the corner and just laugh at everything. Like that's how I get through it. So if I was either doing that with you or with Stanley and

I love Stanley in each. Every woman loves Stanley. Don't you think it's universal? Yeah. Universal appeal.

I love him. And what do you remember about young Kristen Bell? Did you go, "Oh, yeah. this girl will definitely be all that she's proven to be.

I know, you know, we got along so well. Uh-huh. We were very sympatico and um and I respected her a lot. I wasn't I didn't know who she was, but you know, she was good.

How much are you aware of the um persona you bring into something like that project? People are very excited that Sher is there and you have to take that on and deliver to some degree. Like how much are you aware of the persona of Sher when you're just someone who wants to enter this job like anyone else and act and do a good job but you have to be aware of this other presence that's around which is share the icon.

It just doesn't mean anything. It's just I'm a woman who's always worked and that's who I am and I'm successful. But I don't buy the that other stuff. I just don't buy it.

You can't connect to it. But can you you can observe the impact though it's having on people. Surely

I am who I am and I've worked hard to be who I am. Yeah. But I don't see the I don't know. I can't

putting you on that type of pedal. If I see people and they're like going, you know, crazy.

Yeah. I will go up to them, you know, give them a hug and go, "It's okay." Yeah. Yeah.

And do they freak out though? Like I feel like sometimes you see those moments and they and people just can't handle it.

I know. Sometimes the funniest pictures seen the funniest pictures people like behind me realizing it, but somebody else is taking a picture of me and they get this other person.

Yeah. You must be seeing your life from like a different perspect like you know from above in those circumstances. I think I see it from sideways.

Surely you had people that you looked at as if they were Sher. Yes. Like who were yours?

Audrey Heppern was like the Heepern girls. I bumped into her with my Academy Award in my hand

backstage at the Oscars. Yeah. But you know there's the black curtain when you're going off.

Yeah. She was in the black curtain. I didn't see her and I bumped right into her.

Okay. And she said, "I'm so glad you won. I was wishing you would win." Were you able to feel calm and present or were you a little bit revved up that it was her?

I was revved up. I mean, I was totally revved up. I would say, and maybe I'm not saying this correctly, but from my perspective, you think it's like almost not it's like a waste of time. Like, let's cut through all of that.

Yeah. I want to get to the I'm the human. Let's talk. I'm not I'm not an icon. What the [ __ ] is an icon? Audrey. Kate.

I'm not Audrey. I'm not Audrey or Kate. to tell you this. If you're a one namer, you're an icon. Let's look. That's real.

If you've sold a 100 million albums over the course of seven decades, if you've won academy, you know, listen, you you checked all the boxes. Sadly, it just adds up to

whether you want to accept it or not. But that I will say that was one of the reasons that I gravitated towards you because I definitely when I first booked that movie had that that you had with the Hepern girls cuz I was like, "Oh my gosh, I'm going to be in this movie with Sher and she's an icon." But your vibe in real life is like so grounded.

Well, I'm not grounded at all. No, no, no. I'm completely crazy and I'm completely grounded.

Yes, both. And also, I mean, I'm a Taurus and a Gemini. I'm three people. I don't know what any of that means. But when when you talk to you, it does feel like you're going, let's just cut through all the waste of time of like, oh, I'm this, I'm that, you feel this way. Let's just talk like human.

We just had fun. We just talked. I mean, we just What do you do? You just talk to somebody. connect as people.

Yeah, you're fun to shoot the [ __ ] with. And I will tell you, I'm not going to intrude on the rest of your interview. So, I'll leave you with this. Okay.

I often do. No, no, don't go. Why? Because I want you here. I'll stay for a couple more minutes, but then I'm going to let you get to your thing. But

what is it? We haven't been getting to it. We've been getting No, we're going to start in about a half hour.

No, this 700 p.m. But listen, people ask me a lot, what's the best piece of advice you've ever gotten? And and I say it's from you because you said to me, "Honey, if it doesn't matter in five years, it doesn't matter."

And that's my mom's. If it doesn't matter in five years, it doesn't matter. That's great.

And I've used it my whole life and it's still relevant. It's always My mom was like super cool. And my mom was like a different version of me, a blonde version of me or I was a blonde. I was a dark version of her.

Yeah. Yeah. You were the Armenian version of her. Yeah. My dad, my dad's Armenian, but I feel more like my mom because I didn't really know my dad. And then my mom said one day, "Would you like to meet your dad?" And I always knew there was somebody that everybody didn't talk about, you know, he was like the dark figure that no one talked about because I loved my sister's dad is my dad.

Yeah. Both named John conveniently. Yes. Yeah. Easy for bio dad and the embroidery.

A sign dad or both John, right? So I met him. How old were you? 11. Okay. And I was so happy that I finally knew why I did certain things,

right? Like it explained a lot. Yeah. And also my mother and my sister have huge tempers. They had huge tempers and I don't have one. Unless and you got to push me way far. I mean, you can push me for a long time and then stop or you're going to get killed. Well, what I like the most about your book and what is unique about it for a current book is like it reminds me of listening to someone share an AA like when you see it done in movies. I don't drink.

It's crazy you didn't do drugs given that your biological dad was a junkie and both my husbands.

Both husbands junkies. Yeah. So that's crazy. Um, but when you see AA scenes in movies, they're always sad and saccharine and someone's like, "And then my wife came in and she found me on Dave." That's not our vibe. Our vibe is laughing at everything. Um, we [ __ ] up. We own it. But there's not a ton of shame or embarrassment. And your story is told in this very unique nonvictimy way that I love cuz you could have the the childhood's [ __ ] crazy. It's one for the ages. The marriages were pretty weird too.

Your mom did seven or eight marriages along the way. I think six, I don't know. She married my dad twice for some reason.

So, we don't know how to count that. But suffice to say, there was a new dude every couple years and she got married to those dudes and you moved all over the place for these.

Well, I think because in those days, my mom used to say, you know, you kind of got to marry someone.

That's just how it is. Yeah. Originally, when you first arrive, you go straight to an orphanage.

Yes. which is really wild. It didn't even take me a long time. I just went straight to it.

You went straight to it? Yeah. And you were there for how long? This was like in Pennsylvania some

Yeah. My dad took my mom to Pennsylvania and said, "I'm going to New York. I'll be right back." And that by my mom had to have a make a living. So my dad took me to a Catholic home, you know, and my mom came to visit me, you know, every week. And then my mom got sick and she missed 3 weeks and she came back and they went, "That's it for you."

They wouldn't let her see me. No. They cut her off. Y Do you know how long you were in there?

When I was in there, I was crawling. When I left, I was walking. You don't have memories of that. Or do you?

I really don't, but I have memories from pretty far back. We had um Have you ever heard of Gabbor Mate? No.

That gentleman? He's incredible. He's a psychologist and he's kind of like a world famous one. And yeah, he was a little boy in Nazi Germany and he had the moment where his mom went into a camp and had to hand him to a stranger and he lived with a stranger for I don't know what it was, a year or something, then was reunited.

I lived with three two families that were strangers. Wow. Right. That you found out later in life, right?

Yeah. I had no idea. My grandmother brought this woman and I knew the names of the women, Edith and Mackey, but I thought they were babysitters. I never knew that I lived with them. And the woman comes in with my baby chair, high chair.

Oh, with had Bambi on the back of it that she had saved. That's pretty sweet. And then my grandmother, I'm looking at my grandmother and I'm thinking, what is this? You know, why have I been led to believe this? But then I don't know. I've had some terrible, terrible things happen to me. Some things I couldn't put in the book.

Yeah. But I don't want to write around, you know? I've got places I want to go.

So much of your story is so specific to what era it happened in. Yeah. And I think it's kind of telling of your lack of kind of shame or embarrassment about it, which I love, and your nonvictiminess. But there was a lot life was way different in the ' 70s.

Yeah. If you were a kid, we started in the 60s. Yeah. You were born in 47 six. 46.

Yeah. When I was about four years old, my mom was in drama class and all of all of our friends were like artists, singers, dancers, you know, and I didn't even know there were ugly people in the world.

I was going to say they were all inordinately gorgeous, right? Everyone was super stylish and sexy and living that lifestyle,

right? But I mean also kind of crazy and neurotic. But I used to sit in the I used to sit in the seats in the audience and and watch everybody rehearsing. I was the only child too. So I was like the everyone wanted to pick me up and kiss me.

Yeah. You were the center of attention, I'm sure. Which is Hello. It's addictive. Uh but dad leaves right away. John number one.

Yes. John number two is is husband number two or three. and he's special. You fall in love with him. You're with him 0 to nine. But between dad and John who becomes your stepdad. There's also mom was engaged for a minute to a casino owner.

Yes. Prim. Yes. And I was curious, is that Prim Nevada? Is that the same person?

Yeah, it is. Well, I don't know, but it makes sense to It makes sense, right? Who the hell's name Prim? And I'm like, this guy Prim Prim's a whole town in Nevada. It's a gambling town. But I'm imagining her dad, her mom's boyfriend went on to create this town from Nevada.

You don't have any memories of that. You were too little probably. No. Yeah. And also he didn't like me.

He didn't want a kid around. Yeah. So then Johnny's great. Your mom meets Johnny in an acting class.

Yes. And you love him. Yes. I loved my dad, you know, because my dad was funny and handsome and did all kinds of things with me. And when my sister was born, you know, nobody cared about me. Nobody was even looking. I just became a non- entity. And he one day came in my room and said, you know, I don't see what's so great about that baby. Let's go get some ice cream.

Uhhuh. You know, everybody else was like, goo. But he also he drank. Oh, yes. He had a drinking problem.

Oh, yes. And he got violent. Yeah. Everybody in the family besides me had a huge temper. Huge. Huge. Huge. And there was corporal punishment because that's what happened in those days,

right? Maybe that's why you don't have one. Maybe it's in reaction to being around so much of it that you've taken another route.

Not having a temper. It might be in reaction. No, it's not that. I mean, you're born with it. My mom and my sister like that.

Yeah. You know, short fuses. Yeah. No off the handle. No fuse. No fuse. How were you making peace with the fact that there was this man who was so loving and kind to you and saw you when no one else was seeing you that he had this Dr. Jackekal Side or I guess Mr. Hides?

It was very scary because you never you were like constantly vigilant. Yeah, it makes you hyper vigilant like how do we prevent him from turning into a werewolf? Cuz I love this version. How do we head off any problem?

Okay, this is what you get to be. You get to be you get to be able to read the room really well. And I knew the drink where I had to be out by.

Right. Oh, that's going to tip on this one. Yeah. So, you get really savvy, but do you also think it opens up for you a tolerance that people are like, "Yeah, they're really [ __ ] up and they're really nice." Do you think it might have lowered your expectations in a way that later materialized with Sunny?

Sunny wasn't like that for such a long time. Sunny was like fabulous and he would do stupid things. We would go do water paints and we would go to the park and this guy played the saxophone and we would laugh. We had a lot of fun and and he was he was special in a way and then it became very treacherous.

Yeah. He got insanely controlling as we'll get to. But do you think you were a little bit like yeah this is how men act? like now there's this new side of him and it's a pain in the ass and I got to deal with it. But also this is how men are.

It was so both. And look, I was so young. I was 16 when I met him. If you wrote about him today, people would be like this is the most traumatic thing I've ever read. But like standard for the day was you were super attractive. You're 16. You almost get hit by Warren B.

I lied to him. I lied to him. You lied to Warren Batt older. Yeah. You lied to everybody, right? You were dating a ton of older guys. be 16. And yeah, I mean, in those days it wasn't so bad.

I'm trying to make peace with it while I read it cuz I just get it. Like that's just it was standard. You were never thinking like, "Oh, it's weird. I'm 16. This guy's 30. He invited me over."

No, but I knew you couldn't tell people. Yeah. So enough that you knew you. Yeah. But it sounds like it was all pageantry though. It's like, you know, I'm I'm 18.

Well, no, because people wouldn't go out with you if you told them you were 16, which I think is probably good of them. I mean, they just there there was the emotional line for guys.

Yeah. Yeah. But how old was Warren when he almost hit your car and invited you over?

I don't know. I was 16. I don't know how old Warren is. Yeah. He was older. He was older.

But he wasn't old. He was young and in his 20s probably, probably. And now this could happen in LA. You could just be driving and the next thing you know, you're friends with Warren Batty,

right? And I just left a guy that I was dating, a tennis player, and then I'm going down the street. done sunset and some [ __ ] comes up and almost sideswipes me. I have to go into Schwab's parking lot.

Duck into Schwabs real quick. Yeah. And then he came up and he had glasses on so I didn't know who he was. But I didn't really care much about who he was. I just knew my mother would be really impressed. My mother and my friend Penny would be really impressed.

And they were very Yeah. You told them again, "This is like nowadays if your 16-year-old is hanging out with mid20s movie star, you'd be like, "This is not for you." But they were like, "Oh, tell us more."

No, but he talked to my mom and she went from, "You're never going out of the house again." to, "Oh, it's okay, honey."

Yeah, it was so charming, so different. And later, like a couple of years later, no, not a couple of years later, like eight months later. So, he calls me and said, "Should we go to dinner?" let's go to dinner. And I went, I have a boyfriend. He said, well, okay, let's go to lunch.

Yeah. Okay. So, what I want I'll just fast forward through, but we're not putting a fine enough point on the fact that you were in Fresno. You were in New York. There was a husband who was financially set in New York. You all moved to New York. Your mom hates it. You moved back to LA. You're just bouncing all around.

Yes. But I was used to it. It was we were gypsy kind of people. By the time you're 16, you move out.

Yes. I'm finished. You're done. Right. What I thought was I've learned as much as I can learn from these people. I'm leaving.

So at 16, you move in with a girlfriend. Yes. Well, she worked for my mom for a while and then when my mom knew I was going, they said, "You have to live with her." Like she was somebody that was going to really keep a rain on me. We moved into this apartment and when my parents lived, I just we smoked a cigarette in every room. We just put in ashtrays everywhere and smoked a cigarette in every room.

Yeah. Pretty exciting to be in Hollywood living on your own at 16 and you're and you're hot.

We were in Beverly Hills. Yeah. So, you're living with her and then you meet Sunny.

Yes. But he likes my girlfriend. But my girlfriend's gay. Uh oh. Again, not an issue in the 70s cuz you also date Geffen for quite a while.

Yeah, but that's a different thing. Yeah. I'm just saying people honestly that it's a different thing because he never had been in love with anybody. So I was the first person that he had real feelings for.

Yeah. You know, and so we had a special arrangement when we met. How did we meet?

I don't know where you met and I should. Okay. Well, so should I. But let's walk up to that point. So you meet Sunny. Sunny likes your girlfriend.

Yes. She's gay. The fra she's gay. It's a mess. The fra runs off with her boyfriend.

Fra leaves. You need a roommate. Yes. And you're just this dumb kid that hangs around a bit with Sunny. It's very innocuous at the beginning.

He and I got to be friends. And I would do stupid things with him like the girls his age would never do. I was happy to just do nothing.

Yeah. Be silly. He wanted to be silly with somebody. Yes, he did. And so then I got kicked out. So I went next door to tell him because I was very for Lauren and we were best friends by that time. Well, not best, but we were good. And uh he said, "Will you can move in with me?" And I was like, "Okay, good." Okay. What? And then he said, "I have single beds and I to tell you the truth, I don't find you particularly attractive."

Wow. He said that he was also 27 and she was 16. Oh, okay. So he didn't know that.

He thought you were what? 19. 18. 18 was the number 18 was my number. Did you feel safer? Safer in quotes knowing that he didn't find you attractive like oh yeah now we're just friends and it can be easy.

I don't know if I felt safer but I felt safe with him because that's the way he was. You know he was very protective but not just of me like he was a good friend to all his guys. And like it says in the book, the night that I was in this club, I had my back to the door and and when he walked in, I noticed that everyone was going, "Son, hey Sunny, come and sit with us. Hey, Sunny, come and sit with us. Son, son, come sit with us." And I'm thinking, "Who in God's name is behind me?"

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So, everyone just disappeared. How long were you living together before it got blurry? It got kind of way blurry when my mom came in and found his shorts in next to the tea bags.

Okay. She was like, "What's happening here?" I would say, "Mom, when if you're going to come over, just call me before. I want to make sure the house is clean."

And then I lost most of his clothes because when she was coming over, I threw them in my girlfriend's she left her window open. I just threw them through the window.

Okay. And Sunny came down and she said, he said, "Sher, my shorts, my underwear is all over the bushes over there. What are you doing?"

And he was working for Phil Spectre. And for people who are not aware of Phil Spectre, a lot of people won't be. He was a titan in the ' 60s music. He invented this wall of sound recording technique. He was a god, right? He he just produced so many hit records.

Yeah. He made the recording group. Yes. And so Sunny was working for him and you start kind of stopping by the recording studio.

That's not exactly true. I had met Philillip before with his best friend. Uhhuh.

And I walked in and sat down and he asked me in French, would I go to bed with him?

Sure. And so I knew the answer and I said for money. Nice. And then when I had to be with Sunny, I had to kind of say, Sunny, I I met him. I know him. He doesn't like me.

Yeah. So anyway, but finally he said to Sunny, "I'll bring her." So I he brought me and um Philip and I had a really weird relationship.

Can I just tell people also in addition to him being a pioneer in sound, he also got convicted for murdering someone.

Yes. Yeah. So for people don't know the end of the Phil Spector story way later.

Yeah. Yeah. That was in the '9s maybe. Yeah. But did you get a creepy vibe from him or No, he was an eccentric man. But could you see that it was weirder than that?

Yes. No, he was really eccentric. He could be funny. He could be kind of scary.

No, never that. I was never I was never I was never going to take [ __ ] from him. I mean, suddenly used to say, "Sher, he's my boss. Please stop. Shar, please. He's my boss." And I went, "Yeah, well, I don't give a shit."

Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Right. But you So, you had a weird relationship with him.

Yeah. I don't know where I got this because he I should have been nervous and frightened because everybody else was.

Yeah. Yeah, but he probably liked that that you weren't were the only person not doing

because you've been trained on like 65 different stepdads. You had to adjust all these different people with big personalities.

He tried, you know, I mean, if someone says that as your as their first sentence to you.

Yeah. And you say the sentence back which he was shocked. Yeah. How much? Then you can't really take being frightened seriously. Yeah,

but you end up singing on background on some songs that become hits because Sunny had told him, you know, Sher sings. If someone tells you someone sings, it's like, oh god.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, okay, fine. So anyway, so Darlene, Darlene and I were talking about this not long ago. So Darlene, her car got broke down and Philip said, Sunny said, "You sing, go in there." Wow. And I was I wanted to tell him like what my credentials were, but I didn't have any. And so I went in and I started I was being my baby and I kept going until after the Christmas album.

Wow. Yeah. A huge hit song. Yeah. Having not planned on that and that happening. Were you so tickled by that turn of events? Were you like excited when you'd hear your song come on the radio?

Well, the first one I did was that and the last one is You've Lost That Loving Feeling and I was the last one. That's the one I'm thinking of.

Yeah. I was the only girl. Was it so exciting? Great song. Yeah. When we were all sitting in the in the booth and and when Bill finished it, nobody could kind of breathe, you know, it was like H.

So then you and Sunny record some songs. Yeah. Nothing. Crickets. How do you end up meeting the Rolling Stones? And how do they tell you, you know what you guys should do is you should go to England, you and Sunny.

Sunny and Jack Nichi met them and they didn't like being here so much because of the way that the older people, the, you know, the heads of the studios, they didn't understand it. bobcat vest and big, you know, elephant bell bottoms and that, you know, people were wearing suits and and dresses, you know, short dresses, but above the knee, not short.

This whole bohemian kind of style wasn't accepted. No. So, you go to England and you guys become quite famous

overnight cuz you arrive and you get thrown out of the hotel as you arrive and it's all captured in the media and that makes you guys an overnight sensation. That's why you get thrown.

They're closed. Because our clothes, the way we looked. Wow. It's so funny cuz you see them now and you're like, "Oh, yeah. That looks exactly like it's supposed to."

But the notion that you guys were getting thrown out for how you looked is pretty

cuz you were right. Because nobody looked as strange as we did. We came back to America. We left as nobody's came back to America as like I think 5,000 people were at the airport.

Wow. And cuz I got you, babe, had come out by that point. I got you babe came out in Europe in England.

In England. Yeah. In ' 65. By the time we got back home, it was a huge hit. Wow.

And so then why did it sour? Cuz you get your first kind of valley between 65 and 71. There's this six years where you have this pretty big success and then you got to go back to the drawing board.

It had passed us by at that time. We didn't really grow with the people. Mhm. You know, and everybody was doing drugs. Everybody was talking about doing drugs and we didn't do Well, I didn't do drugs. Sunny was a little iffy.

The counterculture was taking over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, at that point, before Sunny basically redesigns you guys?

Yes. Are you thinking, "Well, the ride's over." Were you quick to give up or did you have the same optimism that Sunny did?

I did not have the same optimism. What I had was faith because he said, "Give me two years and we'll be more famous than we ever were before."

Oh, wow. Which is crazy. And you guys developed this more of a lounge act in the wake of this, right? It was an accident. We we went just to sing, but the people didn't like us and were so disrespectful that I just started making jokes for the band.

And through that, you discovered Oh, no. Sunny discovered quite You're quite funny.

Yeah. And Sunny was like, Sunny knew what the pulse was and he knew, you know, what to bet on and so he encouraged it. Not at home, not any place else, just on stage.

Yeah. And there's this other weird dynamic people might not know about is that Sunny never wanted to perform really. He wanted you to be a star and he wanted to produce your music and you very much had stage fright and wanted him present so you'd feel confident.

I still get it. Yeah. You have it here. That's why Kristen's sitting right there.

Yeah. Sunny. Yeah. Sunny Bell. So once you do the Sunny and Share show, which again comes out of this lounge routine you're doing, and Sunny goes back to the drawing board and he does he cracks it. Um, I think this would blow people's mind that Sunny and Sher was getting 30 million viewers a week.

That's insane. There's not a show on TV that even is onetenth of that anymore. And you were together at this point, right?

Oh, yeah. I mean, you were like very deeply connected. Well, this is when I guess it's been happening before, but this is when now this kind of new side of Sunny comes out.

Yeah. Which is like incredibly controlling. You have this huge success. There's a lot of money. You're not allowed to leave the house.

You're allowed to go shopping. That's pretty much all you're allowed to do, right?

Yes. And he's cutting you off from friendships you have. Was this side of him, was it happening slowly? Was it more like you woke up one day and were like, oh, I don't have a life or while it was happening, were you like, what's going on? Did it, was it something that occurred to you late?

You know, it took a little while. I couldn't do anything. I wanted to play I Joe D was our friend and our manager and also in the mafia but um I I wanted to do something and I just said I want to let me I'll learn how to play tennis. So I was going there and I was having the best time. Jod D went with me to pick out my clothes and blah blah blah blah blah. And then I'm going with this lady every I don't know couple of days or whatever. And then one day I'm leaving, but she's having a huge party. So there are people coming in.

And so Dennis, my friend, told Sunny that I was there and there and but lots of people were there and lots of men were there and blah blah blah blah blah. And he burned my clothes.

He burned them in the fireplace or in the yard. Yard's more dramatic. Yeah, that's what you want.

Was he giving excuses at first for why you should stay in the house or why? Like was it a slow burn of you should stay in because you'll get you're too famous now or you should like what was he saying?

I think it came on kind of slowly because also I was around when we started Sunny and Sher show I was free on the on the show and he was funny and we got along. It's such a strange dichotomy because we would be laughing and we'd be having the best time and then when we were at home it was kind of more cut and dried.

Yeah. He had lots of other girlfriends. I didn't know except the one. In the middle of the night, you go to get a glass of water. Yeah.

There's a young woman putting her boots on in the house. Yes. Yeah. Were you thinking of how to get out of it?

No. You weren't? No. Were you underwhelmed with like, wow, I have a hit show and we're making tons of money and I'm not very happy. Were you having like where's the joy? It wasn't that because I was so happy with the show and he was so nice on their show and so at the show we would be having the best time and we were more working than we were at home.

Yeah. So you So had you not had the show you might have started questioning the whole relationship but it worked so well there that you're like well it works.

Do you think he was this was an oldfashioned masculine Italian macho ownership over you? He told me cuz when he took my money, I said, "You know, why did you do this?" And he said, "Because I always knew you were going to go."

He started smoking cigars and I knew it was over. Yeah. You said that. Why is that? What is that indicative of?

Cuz like it's just like two mantra. Businessmen. No. Like businessmen smoke cigars.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um because I'm wondering there's this pretty well-worn track with y'all which is men are attracted to your sparkliness and then they're with you and then they're super threatened by your sparkliness. So was it that that's what's that's what's a mystery to me is like he didn't have any interest in you but yet he was very jealous and didn't want anyone else to have you. Do you think he was protecting his financial interest or his like heart interest? No, not his heart interest by that time.

So, it's just more like you were his whole business and he wanted to keep you just doing that business.

Yeah. And also, he couldn't do it without me. Well, clearly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You did it without him as it turned out.

But also, we had fun. It was such a polar opposites because on stage we had a blast. He let me have all the freedom that I wanted to and then we came home. But it was always at night then. This the the show kept us together a lot longer than we would have been anyway because we had such a good time. He was so fun and he was so funny and we worked so well together.

He played a bit of a beta role on the show. Yes. But then in real life he wanted to be very alpha.

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe he felt emasculated in the show and so he had to compensate at home

like when he found his place like when he found what he was good at and what he you know was lame.

Yes, he was really funny and actually the people well liked him more than me. I don't know about that.

I get it. You were the more powerful of the group. He's more of like an underdogy. on the monologues. I just cut him to ribbons, but then he found this kind of nebish funny guy and everyone loved him and they were drawn to me.

You're touring like crazy when you're not doing the show. The marriage is ter it's not great.

And at some point you become friends with David Geffin. He enters your life and he asks to read

Oh, no. No. I met him at Lou Ed's Christmas party. There it is. We got it. We got it. um

met him at the Christmas party and at some point he says, "Can I read your contract?"

Bill was before David. Bill was way before David. Bill was the guitarist in the band. Yes.

The guts from I don't even know where because everyone was terrified of Sunday.

You're in Vegas doing shows. You have to do a bunch of shows and you finally had enough. You're done. And you've not confided into anybody what you're going through. Not even my my my friend Pette knew, but everybody was really frightened of Sunny. And I was thinking about jumping off the balcony.

And you confided in uh the guitarist of the band. One night I just went to the band's room after the show,

which Sony did not want you doing that. Are you kidding me doing anything? You didn't want me to do

I want you to go on PL like go into a room and just shut down until the next performance. No, he had a kidney stone and I got to go to the movies with my friends.

You were so excited. He had a kidney stone. Did you ever think what what's happened to me?

No, you didn't. No. I mean, if you're 16 and someone's 27 and you don't know what you are doing and then all of a sudden you're singing with Philillip and Sunny was nice then. Sunny was nice for a really long time and then not so nice. So you confide in this bandmate and then yeah you just you use him a little bit as like okay I'm going to wiggle out.

He said everyone wants to know why do you live this way? Mhm. Yeah. Did that feel like this reality just shattered? Like oh wow.

I mean I knew it was obvious to Plette but I wasn't allowed to talk to the band so I didn't realize that they knew.

Yeah. And now you're saying I'm leaving this this residency like I'm not going to perform. That became your your trump card.

Well, that night it was crazy. Sunny said, "What are are you are you crazy? Do you know what you're doing?" He said, "You need to come back to the room." And I said, "You know what? Bill wants to come with me." I mean, it was it was

it was crazy. It was just crazy. And there's the breaking point. I hadn't eaten in days. Like I I was like 98. I wasn't even 98 lbs.

Yeah. Because he wouldn't let you eat. No, no, I couldn't. Oh, you were just so confused.

You know, I was just like, you know, crazy. Bill comes up and he I mean, come on. He was 22.

I was 25. And then the second time he said, "Why do you live this way? Why do you live this way?"

Yeah. And I said, "I don't I don't know. I mean, I can't do it anymore. I don't know what I'm going to do. So Sunny said, "Come back up to this room now." And I said, "I'm going to bring Bill." I like I went from one kind of person just flipped over that night.

Yeah. You know, I did a 180. Yeah. But he was so businessminded, Sunny, that he knew best to salvage the business. Like once he recognized, oh, you might be deserting this business, he came to the table in a way that was like, okay, yeah, you I'm gonna let you move to Malibu. I'm going to let like the concessions started.

I also I didn't know how powerful I was at all. Right. Right. Right. Right. So, the ball has started rolling, but it's not until Geffin looks at this contract and says to you, "Do you realize 100% of this money goes to a company called Share Inc. that is owned 95% by Sunny and 5% by his lawyer?"

0% for share. 0%. Oh my god. And it's been generating. It was like born yesterday because I was they would bring me a bunch of share contract share enterprises contracts to sign and it was always like when I was getting ready to go on stage.

Yeah. What are you going to read 20 pages of legal ease and I'm not going to read anyway.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then the next day he said you got to get out of this. He said you got to get out of it. So I went to Sunny and I said I'll stay if you if we're partners. And he said no.

So stupid. Oh, what a I mean, what a dumbass on top of everything else. Yeah, but he wasn't used to it.

Mhm. Yeah. And he hated David. I mean, he hated him with a vengeance, I'm sure.

None of the others, but David, you had Stockholm syndrome to some degree. You know, you were living with kind of a captor,

I guess. So, but it it was it was push and pull kind of, but it wasn't like never hurt me. I mean, he never hit me. He never did anything like that. And he would be really nice and we were working most of the time.

He'd buy you things and seemingly spoil you. All kinds of [ __ ] And you were moving to nicer and nicer houses. So, it was working.

But that is the cycle of abuse we know now is love bombing mixed with hyper control.

He used to buy me really expensive presents, but it wasn't for me so much. It was to show people

that he spoiled you. Yeah. Yeah. That was a big big shot. Yeah. Um Okay, so you guys get divorced. I also think it's really interesting you did reach out to um um Lucy Ares. I love Lucy. And for people don't know that history, she too was in business with her husband on a show

and my mom was on that show. Oh, she was. She acted on it. Yeah. And so what did what did Lucy say? And she had had a similar situation with

Desi. Desi. Yeah. He was controlling and Yeah. And he had screwed her out of a bunch of money.

Yeah. And what'd she say to you? [ __ ] him. Get to get No. She said, "Fuck him. You're the talented one."

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Were you like able to take that in when she said, "You're the talented one." Were you able to really be like, "Actually, I am."

That gave me a lot of courage and David was there. Yeah. I couldn't have done it without David.

You then go on to record in 71. You record uh Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves, Half Breed, Dark Lady. The music career is starting to now work without Sunny. And then how do we get into Silkwood? Was it calculated or did it kind of come about?

No, I have never calculated anything. I've just been lucky. I went to Mike Nichols once for an audition and he said, "Char, there are two kinds of women and you're not the one I want for this."

Okay. And I said to him, you know, I'm talented and one day you're going to be really upset. You're going to be sorry. So I'm doing come back to the five and dime. So he came to the, you know, to the matinea and then he came backstage and he said, "You're right. You're talented and I'm really sorry."

Really? He said, "How would you like to make a movie with Meryill Street?" And I said, "Okay, that sounds good.

That sounds right. I fall in love with you for Mask. I think Mask is such a special movie.

It was. And I had such a horrible time with Peter. It was terrible. The worst experience I ever had.

Bagdonovich. Yeah. He was directing. I don't even think I knew that. Yeah. Why? Cuz he has a thing with his actresses.

He was just He didn't like me from the get-go. I don't really know. I don't know how I got hired, but I guess he saw that I would be good at it, but he didn't like me. He didn't really like the characters. He He was an ascot kind of guy.

Yes. And this is about a biker family. Yeah. And he just he knew enough to pick the script, but he didn't like the people. And he didn't like me at all.

Really? And how would that uh present itself? Would he make you do millions of takes? I'll give you one story. We're doing this a big scene in the kitchen. So he said, "Where do you think it would be good to do this tomorrow?" And I said, "We've been in the kitchen, you know, all day. Maybe we should go into the little dining room thing." He said, "Okay." And then the next morning, he comes into me. He was eating an egg sandwich. I That's the thing I can That's the ground. That's the grounding of that experience. and he just started, you know, I don't know who you think you are. You're not going to tell me where to I mean, it was so it was crazy. Then we're doing the scene and Peter comes up to give me a direction and he puts his hand on the back of my shoulder and I said, "Take it off. Don't ever touch me again."

Good for you. It was over. Yeah. You're phenomenal in that movie. You're so good. Um, the other movie I wanted to ask you about because I'm so obsessed with him, but what was happening on Moonruck with you and Nicholas Cage? That feels like the pairing of a lifetime.

Well, you know, they don't want him in the beginning because they wanted Peter Gallagher, who I love.

Uh-huh. But he wasn't right. And I had seen uh Nikki in Peggy Sue Got Married. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I knew he was the only one to play it and then they said no and I quit.

Oh, really? No. Oh, wow. So, you were the one pushing for Nick Cage? Yeah. Did you know him prior to making it?

I didn't know him. I just knew that only he could do it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, can you see anybody else saying, "Chrissy, give me the big knife." No, but I'm his number one fan, so he does no wrong in my opinion. I think he's the most exciting actor to watch alive. He had to have had a crush on you. Yeah. In real life.

I don't know. I think so. I don't remember. You don't think so? No. I don't know. I don't know.

I had a boyfriend, so I You had a boyfriend? It doesn't stop people from having crushes.

Yeah, I know. While you were in this big chunk, like you're having tremendous success as an actor. Do you want to resume singing or are you like, "Fuck, this is great. I like doing this. I like doing movies. It's less exhausting. I'm not on the road."

I didn't really have any cache as a singer so much. Also, the songs were kind of they were so formulaic, you know, gypsies and whatever. So, I kind of people didn't want to know me, truthfully.

So, how what what gets you back in the ring as a singer? Cuz in ' 87, which is the same year as Moonruck, you released Share. So, you're back at it. What prompted that?

I don't know. You don't know. You work. Well, if you go, who cares? You're on the verge of going. No, I mean, I was You had to.

No, I was signed to the to the company. Okay. Cuz you were under contract. Yeah.

When you have now an explosion of success with your music career in the late 80s, has that come as a surprise to you?

Things in my life just stop. It's like you're this and then you're new and improved. You've reinvented yourself. So I I went on the road. I went to the elephant's graveyard. I went to Las Vegas and had a residency.

So you liked the residencies? Yes. But not but I felt bad because people were making fun of me.

They were everybody. Not me. I came to see in the shares in the elephant's graveyard because that's where you went. But also I had to make money.

Well, you made a lot of money. You made a ton of money. Turns out Sunny, you know,

was an idiot. Yeah, he didn't make a lot of money, but you went on to make a lot of money.

But he had my $11 million. Did that drive you nuts? I just couldn't believe it.

Yeah. It said that at the time you guys were trying to divide up $24 million in assets, which today is 175 million. Like you guys have [ __ ] made some money.

Wow. Some like serious serious money and you didn't walk with half of that is what you're saying.

I didn't walk with any of it. None of it. None of it. So he won that. Yeah. But then you got the last laugh, 100 million albums. Your tour that you went on in 90 or 2002 to 2005 was the highest grossing tour of any female singer of all time. Now just Taylor's taken the baton.

Just say I never got to that. I mean, people didn't get to that. Well, your tour made $250 million 20 years ago, so that's pretty [ __ ] massive.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Also, I have never had luck with men and money. It seems like I'm a target, you know, and there's so many ways to do that with record companies. And

so, you feel like you've gotten screwed more than once. Yeah. And what do you think that's about?

I think it was a big thing with women in those days. Yeah. I mean, look, a lot of the a lot of men were getting screwed,

right? Black men, black reformers especially. Oh yeah. There's some horrendous motto, you know, you come from nothing. That's another thing. You come from nothing.

They rightly assess, oh, they'll be fine with this. Yeah. And my managers at that point were taking so much. And my business manager blah blah blah blah blah.

Okay. So, when you had this massive success round two as a singer, how did you decide what you're going to do next? How did you decide? Do I do movies or do I continue with this music? What am I supposed to be focusing on? How were you deciding that

things come up? They just present themselves and you say yes or no. And yeah, but you were never kind of thinking, well, I haven't been in a movie in a while. I need to duck back in and just make sure.

No strategy. No, just things come your way. I've been lucky. I've been a combination, but more lucky than not. I honestly believe this. There are people so much more talented than me, but I'm lucky, too. You have to have a certain amount of luck in this business.

Yeah. Okay. My last question is, oh, I didn't think it would ever end. I know. I know. I know it's grueling. Uh, and we appreciate you.

We do. Other than Geffen, have you ever had a man that you deserved? I had two.

You had two? Yes. Okay, good. That's good. I would be sad if you didn't feel like you

it was zero. Several of these you did not deserve. Well, Bill, yes, Gregory is a double-edged sword because he was a kind, fun, talented man that was a drug addict.

Yeah. You know, but I mean, when we had great times, he was very human and and exceptional.

Uhhuh. And when he was doing drugs, he left. I mean, he would go away and then he'd come back.

Is that the hardest way to end a relationship where it's like the thing that's going to keep you guys apart isn't even an issue between you. It's an issue between him and something else. That's got to be the hardest to swallow.

I It took me a long time. And Robert was a wonderful person. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful person. He still is. We still talk to each other. And Alexander is a wonderful person.

That's your current boyfriend? Yeah. with the six-year-old. We're including him in the two. I hope.

Yeah. Yeah. We are. We are. We are. And David was wonderful, too. Did you guys keep a friendship over the years? Cuz it feels like a special you and Geffen.

Yeah. And Robert. You were friendly with everyone, huh? Even Sunny kind of. Well, you know. Yeah.

Yeah. Not with his wife. That didn't go well. No, because she's trying to take all my money.

Sure. She already got more than she should have to begin with. Yeah. Well, Sher, um,

it's been fascinating. I think you're such an attractive badass, sparkly person. We're lucky to have you.

Yeah. I like the combo of tough and fragile. Yeah. Yeah. It's very appealing. Well, I don't know. If you you have to deal with it sometimes. It's not so much fun.

Have you ever joined a marriage? You tried that yet? Where you join an existing marriage?

He's offering you to join their marriage. Yeah. I swing through. This will be your emotional juicer.

She'll move in with you. She just wants me to get the [ __ ] out of the picture. I think

Kristen will be a third. You deserve. No. Not even. Not even. Um, well, Shar, again, I'm I'm incredibly grateful that you came all the way out here to see us. I love your book and I proitize about it. I think it's phenomenal. I think it'll blow people's mind. It's so honest.

I have a question. Yeah. What's the most thing that you like about it? You're not going to be destroyed or dominated by unfortunate events. And there's there's no um self-pity in your story even though you're entitled to a lot of it. And I like that. And I actually think that's a pretty good message for younger people to be reading currently.

True. But it's like I have to work at this all the time because, you know, I'm fragile as my mom. I'm fragile as people in my family. So I am always trying to remember who I am. Who I am innately.

Yeah. You know, but sometimes it's a struggle. And you say things like this in the book. I almost got my ass kicked for being a [ __ ]

I love it. Yeah. I wrote down I don't know where I got the balls. Like you're just

There's no thrills yet. I almost got my ass kicked for being a [ __ ] That's just not what you're going to read from like a brand new movie star right now.

That definitely sounds like the way you chat. Yeah, it's authentic. That's that is that's what's so attractive.

There's a pressure on people to have dealt with their own trauma in a very accepted way. And I like when people don't deal with their trauma that way. Like mine mine was active like yours was. There was violence. There was addiction. Couldn't be more grateful ultimately I'm in this house with this woman and these two kids. [ __ ] I wouldn't change a thing, right? It's golden. Definitely the better half.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I also think I think it's really helpful for people to know you as Sher and who's so strong and sorry iconic and also know that you were controlled that you were in positions that you shouldn't have been in. Like it's helpful for people cuz I think they think oh she's so strong and she just whatever. It's good to to hear. No, there were hard there was hard stuff along the way. I think that's helpful.

This is how I think of myself. I thought of myself as a bumper car and you hit the wall and you either hit the wall and stayed there or you hit the wall and come back and you go that way.

Who would you like to see Kristen with? If you got to pick from every available bachelor Oh, they don't even have to be available. They can be some taken ones if you want. Who would be your dream partner for her? because I know you think she could do better and I and I don't disagree. Who Who would be your pick?

I don't know. Brad Pit maybe self-deprecating right now. He's he's I just want to know who she thinks your dream catch would be. There's some people I have that I think are good.

She's You've never thought about that. No, she just she just not sold yet on me.

She's not sold yet. Well, you don't have the the the relationship. I don't have the talent of either of you guys. So, I mean that part is

No, but the truth is I trust her. So, you must have something that I don't see.

Yeah. There you go. You're telling that clip, by the way. That's incredible. Yeah, that's incredible.

But Reese Witherspoon said that, too. She said there's something about women like a smart, strong, awesome, funny woman. If they're with a man, you're like, there must be something to that man.

Absolutely. There is. There's a lot to this man. Um, he's tall. No, I'll tell you the thing that you should like about me.

Okay. I'm not threatened by her shining. I love it. The shinier she gets, the better.

Alexander is that way, too. The more I shine, the more he has one. That's beautiful. Guys who polish.

So, that's my offering. I would say guys who polish you so you shine more. You sometimes tease me when I because I you know what I do is I I have my burlesque wigs still on a head and I have it in the um like on one of those sticky things in the closet and sometimes I go in there and I brush it cuz it's a very expensive wig. I brush it and Dax goes,

"You playing with your dog?" Did Rada make it? You play? Yeah, of course. Don't be silly.

It's a very expensive wig. Yeah. Yeah. And I always say she's playing with her dollar $5,000.

Oh yeah. I say five to seven for sure. 27,000 with lace front fitted. Yeah. Yeah. And the way I mean she was the best one that ever lived. So

that's awesome. And you got to comb it. You got to once every You have to check in with

6 months. You got to go in there and spend some time combing. Yeah. Play with your doll.

Play with your dolls. Um well Sher, I adore you and I understand nobody's good enough for her and I expect that to be

Trust me. You're going to learn to love for your Yes. He's He's almost too good for me.

And you seem like a good dad. He's the best. I put on a good show when the guests are here. That's not a show.

That was the first hug I had given my daughter in two years. That's not true. Just because you were here. I wanted to impress you. You haven't even seen me with my shirt off yet, which you'll see on the way out. That's pretty premium as well.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. I adore you. Thanks for making the time. Okay. Yeah. I'll get you on the next one.

Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong.

You know what's really funny about this studio? What? It's almost the exact same size. But we are about 18 in further apart than we are in LA.

Can you feel that or no? Weirdly, like you're dist. Really? Can you see me? I can't. That's what I was. Let me put my glasses on. They're reading glasses so they're the opposite.

Don't put your glasses on because you know I feel like I look better when fuzzy.

Better from afar. I look best from afar. Um, happy birthday. Oh, thank you. It's my friend's birthday today.

It is. It's not a very fun age. No, it's a good age. We'll just There's a landmark 50.

Yeah, I know. Which we had. That's over. No more 50s. That's right. And then 51 is just like okay.

But I was talking to I don't remember who about this but they were saying that there's kind of a mental trick where you feel you should feel kind of young when you're at the early stage of the decade. So like 51 52 you're young.

Okay. When you're 54 is when we got to start sounding the alarm probably. No like 57.

Okay. Okay. But it works in all decades. So like right now I'm 38. So I'm like feeling old. Yes.

But I'm about to feel young. About to be a young 40-year-old. Exactly. Yeah. Optimism.

What are your thoughts about turning 40? Yeah. It's weird because a lot of my friends from home from Georgia who I, you know, is of my class are turning 40 this year. Not me though.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, were you a year younger than everyone? Well, I was born in August and I started kindergarten when I was four.

Oh my goodness. Wonder. Yeah, you are a wonderk kid. But you turned 39 in August. I do.

Okay. So, you got a year and 8 months. Yes. I have time. But I feel from my perspective 40 feels great. Like to be turning 40 sounds wonderful.

The only thing of course that is a little scary is kids. I just saw on Instagram this woman's pregnant. She's 45.

71. 71. She's the right age. She's in early 70s. Early, so she's young. I was just telling the girls on our vacation, we were kind of Well, a Delta was saying how she can't wait to have a baby.

Yeah. Which Yeah, of course. She's going to really really do it. Well, yeah. Yeah.

For people who don't know, our life is a traveling circus of Delta stuffies. The bulk of our luggage as a family is her stuffies. And now there's I've already forgotten the names of them.

Lebert. No, I I know. There's a new class of toys that are these 3D printed things.

Oh, I know. Yeah. And somehow she needs a lot of those. They're cute, though. Sure, but they're tiny and they get lost a lot.

They're trinkets. At least Groot, we had like when we were trying to find Groot at the Monster Jam.

Oh [ __ ] You're like, "Okay, he's a foot and a half tall. You can get a APB on the guy.

Yep, that's right. All all points bulletin. Guy's about two feet tall. Yeah, but this these are microscopic. Anyways, there's that. And then do you know about fugles?

Well, I learned about fuglers because um I took Delta on her shopping spree. Mhm.

As we that's our tradition for her birthday and she wanted fuglers. Yeah. Fuckload of fuglers. I cannot with these young the young generation loves

ugly ugly but we I did too. You didn't have that? Well, we had garbage pal kids and they were the most collectible thing of my whole youth.

And they were ugly. Yeah. It was like um Fatsy Nancy, you know, these are bad. These are these are outdated.

They're old. They're old. Gay Mike. No, that wasn't one. But can you imagine? But it could have been.

Black Sarah. Oh my god. You don't know it was THE 80S. OH NO. OH NO. NO. They were terrible. Do Do you not know? Do you know?

I don't know. Like maybe you've talked about them, but I don't I didn't collect them or I don't really know about them.

That's probably the only thing I got obsessed with as a kid where it was like there was first edition, but by the time I got into them, they were already on second or third edition. So, you really wanted these first edition ones.

My cousin Jamie had all of them. He was pretty good at giving me doubles. Anyways.

Oh, that's nice. point. All that is is like I look at these fuglars and for people who don't know what fuglers are, they're these little stuffed animals and they have like human teeth in them.

They're ugly. They are. But they're cute. I mean, literally they're ugly. That that stands for [ __ ] ugly.

Oh, is that what [ __ ] I think you're right. Fugly from the movie Mean Girls. Yeah. Nasty. But [ __ ] ugly.

Like [ __ ] ugly. I guess I guess I'm going to go with a competing brand called Buff Ulies.

And what are they going to have? Well, these are butt [ __ ] uglies. So, is the butt human flesh?

Yeah. You We'll harvest We'll harvest some human flesh. Well, I guess the original fugler was a woman who made this little creature and put real teeth in it.

Real human teeth. Yes. Wonder where she got those. Where does one get? So, I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt that she wanted to preserve her children's baby teeth.

I' I've decided this. So, so she made this little creature to put the teeth in there, but then people

loved it. Loved it, I guess. So, now fuglers that you buy, they're not human teeth, but they look like human teeth.

This is probably one of these overnight. This person's probably a billionaire. I know,

cuz this we had to have all the fuglers. And we got fuglers for everybody. Yeah.

This episode was brought to you by Fuglers. Please sponsor us, Fuglers. Yes. Anyway, so she's saying she wants to have a baby. And I said, "When do you think you'll have your first child? when you turn 18.

Oh, okay. And she, I want to be supportive of whatever. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to plant any seeds that I'd be judgmental or whatever. And she said, "What? No. 18. What do you think I really?" And I said, "I my guess is between 35 and 45 is when I think you'll have kids."

I said, "And I think we'll if you want to, we'll freeze your eggs when you're 18." You know, like,

wow. I'll pay I'll pay for you to get your eggs frozen so you don't have to think about that.

Yeah, that's lovely. Because your issue is just when you started freezing eggs, right? Like had you started at 14?

Well, I think you might have to be on hormones before you even hit had your period.

No. Um I don't know because I've never like looked You didn't look into it. Yeah, I didn't look into it. So maybe I always had a low count. I do think the earlier the better. Yes. And I think and look acknowledging all lucky privilege obviously this is an option for most people but I think

given where it's the the the trajectory it would make the most s like I think they're going to be wrestling with the same thing every woman is like you're going to want to do your career or whatever the hell.

Um so anyway all to say she was like no that's great that's too old. No again she's 11 so that probably seems like 80.

Yeah but Oh yeah. Ouch. Ouchie. She's thinking mid20s. Okay. Okay, that's fine.

Whatever. I think whatever she does is going to be great. Yeah, me too. Um, but I do think she's underestimating what mid20s feels like.

Yep. I think she is. And how much fun particularly she'll be having. It's just so fun.

It won't be time for her to be in the house every night with a child. I was thinking about that sim like eight minutes ago because I just arrived. We're in Nashville.

Okay. 80 minutes ago because I just arrived in Nashville and um came from the airport and I don't know why I was thinking this but I moved to LA when I was 22.

Oh, really? Yeah. And I I've never thought about that. I always think like, oh, I've been there 15 years or I've been there 16 years or whatever. And then I was like, "Oh my god, that was a big move. That's a big deal."

22s are babies. Yeah. Yeah. If I know a 22-year-old now and they say, "I'm going to move across the country," I'd probably say, "Whoa, that's a big deal."

Yes. So, I I was proud of myself. You should be. Yeah. I I know. I similarly hi. Come on. You can sit here. Jeff, can you turn that other mic on? Hi Jeff.

That's Jeff. So, disappointingly about Jeff, he's from New Orleans, but he doesn't have a Cajun accent.

Jeff. Jeff. And sorry, and I was on the verge of boring him with the story. Do you remember Aaron when you and I we went to Aaron and I went over Christmas, probably senior year to we just wanted warmth.

We pulled out the Rand McNal, okay, map because there's no internet, right? And at the back of the Rand McN map, it had a chart with um monthly average temperatures for cities around the country.

I remember this now. Yeah. And we just looked in the the warmest place in the entire graph in the contiguous US was um Corpus Christie or Corpus Christie, Texas.

Yes. Y So we're like, let's go there. It'll be warm. Oh boy. We drove to Corpus Christie, Texas. We got there and we're like, what is this weird place? It was like just pavement.

Have you ever been there? I don't think I've been. Okay. Mind you, this was also 92 or three. 92.

So, no restaurants, no coffee, nothing. It was banking dis. It was It was warm, wasn't it? So, we were in that city for a total of an business.

I just remember sitting on the cement in front of the bank building going like, "What are we doing here?" Like, we just drove for two days to get to this cement. But you still had fun cuz you guys are friends.

Well, then we got out the Rand McN Monica. Okay. Well, like what are we by? Uhhuh.

And we were by Padre Islands right across South Padre. The bridge from Corpus Christi,

but I think we were on North Padre. South Padre. And we ended up on this section. There was Federal Beach for like 5 miles and like State Beach for 10 miles. And you could drive on the beach.

And we drove the car there. And this is where we had our we brought speedos with us. Micro brief underwear.

You've seen the pictures. Yeah. Have I seen pics of us at the beach in our micro brief with our um We also have winter gloves on.

Sure. I think you've seen it. Erin's posted it. We can post it for this episode.

Is hitchhiking with a winter glove and a bikini bottom. A little blue bikini bottom.

I don't even know why we needed to do that stuff cuz there was really no one there.

I know. That's how you guys have been operating your whole life. So, it's just for each other. It's very pure.

Very pure. Okay. All to say, we then were there for a few days. We met the weirdest cast of characters who live on these beaches. And they go from the federal beach to the state beach back and forth. And they live there all year long, but you can only be there for 10 and 5 days, respectively. So, they move back and forth.

Volkswagen buses and whatnot. Yeah. Drinking beer, all that kind of stuff. Um, a jellyfish all over the beach that popped when we drove. It was gross. That was memorable. Like when you're driving wall to- wall jelly. This is like the packaging bubbles. You're driving.

They're like dead and inflated. I don't know what I'm doing. Blood. Not that we saw. Clear blood. If there was blood,

it's clear Pepsi. Um, then we were like, let's go to New Orleans. The best. We had never been. So, we cross Alligator Alley. We're getting kind of closeish again. No, no internet, no phones.

Go over to a gas station, ask a guy how to get to Bourbon Street. Yeah. And I was in there for like 12 minutes and I came out and I got back in the car and Aaron goes,

"Did he tell you where to go?" And I go, "No idea what he said." Sure. Understand?

12 minutes. Dang. Uhuh. Over there. And yeah, I just came out like we got to go to another gas station.

Yeah. It's such a unique place. I love it there. I haven't been in Oh, yeah. We went in college. It was so fun.

I'm going. When? To do the Isacson's Tain. Remember, did he asked me to come to Tain Book Festival?

Chain Book Festival. Yeah. And I'm going. When is it? I think in March. I want to go.

Go to the book festival. I love books. You love You love to start books. Yeah, I do. I finished a book though over the break.

You did? Which one? Um, it's called Heart the Lover. Okay. It's a very popular book right now. I bet Ruthie read it.

Did you read it with your eyes or your ears? My eyes. Yes. That's how Ruthie reads.

I can't read with my ears. I'm deficient in that. Um, but I finished it. It was really sad.

It was. And it made me feel melancholy for the holidays. Yeah. Well, okay. Great.

Just for what you want. Yeah. I did think when I finished because last time I was home I finished a book tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow which is my favorite book I've read in the past decade and that also made me feel so melancholy.

It did. And then when I w when I finished Heart the Lover I thought this I shouldn't read.

Yes. Well, you should read a different genre for sure. But reading has a way like

maybe a Jack Reacher book or Tom Clancy. I'm not that interested. Harvin Corland. Wait, Har Corbin

Reese Witherspoon's partner partner. What? Yeah, they wrote her book together. But no, I um I think books are the the medium that cuts the deepest.

Yeah. Yeah, you can change you can like form your identity around a book, not not a movie.

Yes. Exact. Well, I did form my identity around a TV show and a movie to be fair.

That's true. You were susceptible though. I guess I get it. I'm just sensitive to art.

Was it you that was telling me you like most of your music you discover from TV shows? Yeah. Yeah.

I do have to say one funny thing about my birthday before we move on. Yes. Well, we don't have to move on.

Well, let's move on. It's already been indulgent, but um Kristen had written me a birthday card that was on my sink

when I woke up, which was lovely. Or after I meditated, and it said like happy 52nd birthday. And I thought, oh, that's kind of a funny bit. just be off by one year. That was definitely a bit. And then I got into the interior of the card, what was written, and then we went back to being 52. Uh

oh. I was like, she definitely thinks I'm 52. Yeah. Did she um did she tell you?

We've since talked cuz then I read the whole thing. Then I got busy talking to a neighbor. Then I came back into the bathroom and then she was in there at the time fixing the car to one

and I go, "Honey, did you you got my birthday? you got my age wrong. And she's like, "Well, I did the math from 74."

Oh, it's like the wrong problem. Yeah. I was born in 74. Your neighbors came over and I came over and met them and and uh we were sitting there and and they're like, "Oh, it's his birthday today." And I go, "51, baby." And Kristen goes, "No, 52."

BUT by the way, I'm going to drag her a little bit. Yeah. I mean, you would remember last year was my 50th. That's my That's more my If you like If you can't keep 57 56 straight, duh. I probably won't be able to either, but just last year was 50.

I thought she was doing a bit with me, too. I will say this. I for some reason that birthday party, like your roller skating party, feels like a really long time ago.

Does it? Yeah. I I don't know why, cuz this year went by very fast, I think. Yeah.

But a lot h I think a lot happened this year. I do, too. And I'm having a lot of what you're explaining right now. There are many events. Uh the the award show season is the one right now where I'm like we were just at these award shows with

Kristen. Sure. Sure. Cuz I guess probably Emmys is the latest one and then what is that?

That's in the fall. That was sort of recently. Is that in the fall? I think it's in like September.

Okay. So probably I'm getting a little confused by that. So yeah, there's all these different things where it's like, well, that feels like that was two months ago.

Yet then there's an event that was on the day before that does feel like two years ago.

Yeah, I know. Time is time is very daddy. Yeah, it's very um topsyturvy that way.

Can I tell you guys now that we're on the subject of um the awards? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So, this will be out on Monday. Happy New Year everyone. Happy 2026. I think it's going to be a good one. It's going to be a good year. I feel it. So, we're going to the Golden Globe. So exciting.

Yeah. Next Sunday. Yeah. This Sunday. This tomorrow. Yeah. And I've been on a real ride over this break. So, I have I've been really humbled.

Oh, okay. But humbled to the point where I just like I felt worthless. Okay. Okay. So, so it's a real hot.

It's a real the game you're playing. Yeah. It is a roller coaster because of course it's so it's so incredible that we are nominated that we're getting together like enough already happened.

Exactly. It's already incredible first year podcasting. It's so spe It really is so special. I'm so proud of this.

So I'm trying to get a stylist. Okay. And I cannot get one. It's a busy night for the life of me. And I really started like I was like, "Oh my god, I I am so worth I'm I'm bottom of the barrel. Oh, you're you went ugly."

Of course, I'm like ugly. I'm so ugly. No one even will like get near me. Would that some stylist did it? They like they like Oh, no. They looked at pictures of the people.

They might. I think I think they might. You think they'd rather sit home without a job?

That Well, that was my point. I'm like, don't these people like money? I don't understand. This is a job.

But I think there is a lot of politics and there is a lot of like busiest night year for stylists

and they already have clients and they're already working with clients and it's like it's last minute and I that's what I'm being told. Yes. Okay. But in my heart,

but for me on the outside, I'm like, girl, this is your whole this is like me hiring someone to tell me how to what motorcycle to ride to the globes. What? No, I got that covered.

I know. So, that's okay. But that's also part of Is there anything you couldn't get help with? This would be my pick for you.

That's right. But I I I did think like But, you know, I it just got so big in my head. I was like, I have to look so good because I do care. I care about fashion and I want people to say like, "Oh my god, she looks great." And a stylist does do some things I can't do like tailor perfect like they know things like that.

The finishing touches. Exactly. The accuchima, the um accessories, the jewelries.

At one point I was like, I have a dress. I do. I have this vintage dress that I I love and I think will be great.

I just had this incredible image of you and do you remember when um she dresses up ET in that grandma outfit? Just like so much stuff. I just pictured you on the red carpet with like seven necklaces, three purses, a bunch of pearls, huge earrings, a crazy hat.

I should do that. I should just throw in the diamond. You should look You should look up the picture and dress exactly like the grandma.

I really should. At least that would be funny. Like anyway, and I'll come as the little boy in the like puffer jacket he wore the whole movie. Yeah, you're so cute.

I'll carry you in a milk crate. Like on the front of the bicycle. Well, we rolled up on the the [ __ ] right carpet on bicycles and you were in a milk crate dressed as

Oh my god, that would be so great. Anyway, so so now I'm going on my own, but not really. So luckily, and this is truly a miracle,

okay, but it makes sense. So, there's a designer that I love, an amazing designer, um, Brandon Maxwell. He is an armchair.

Oh, thank God. Brandon, thank God for Brandon. Thank God cuz so he had DM'd me like years ago and said, you know, he loved the show and I could not believe it cuz he's amazing. And then he popped in my head, of course, when all this was going on. I was like, should I just reach out directly? You're not really supposed to do that. like these stylists go to the designers and then they you know it's a whole thing and I was like I well I guess I have to I got to hack the system. That's what I do in my life.

You got to just you just got to keep plowing forward. Exactly. So then um I DM'd him and he said I I heard on the podcast congratulations. That's amazing. I was going to reach out to you. I'd be so honored.

No. Yes. Oh yeah. And so he is going to provide me an incredible dress. It was just really It was very I felt like I really needed that little boost.

Send him ET as an inspiration photo. I will. No, it makes sense though that it would of course be an armchair that came through.

Yes, of course. Of course. Like how like that's what gave me all of this. But it I really went on a real e

What days were these? Were these be This was before Christmas or post Christmas.

Oh, the whole time. The whole Christmas. When did you hear from Brandon? Um this morning?

Like 3 days ago? Three days. So you've had a good three day. You're back. Yeah, I'm back.

Okay. How was Let's quickly go through a little bit of Christmas morning. Okay.

In Georgia. How was it? It was really nice. My brother and his girlfriend. You met your brother's girlfriend?

I did. And she's lovely. What's her name? Her name's Emily. Emily. Shout out Emily. She's so good for my brother.

Um, you know, she's like she's very cute. She's kind of she's easy. Anyway, so yeah, Christmas was was was lovely. What about you,

Erin? Did you get anything nice? Yeah. Yeah, I um I got a t-shirt that said really great station.

Ruthie got him merch. Official official merch. Yeah. And I was like, "Wow, this is actually the nicest t-shirt I think I've ever had." I agree. That one in particular,

I put it on, I'm like, "Okay, now this is like next level." And the color and the whole,

you know, having had living in Georgia during that time, like I was like, "Wow, this is like

full circle." Yeah. Yeah. I love that shirt. And as Murphy's law would have it, I have two of them. And both of them I've done where you get one of those weird oily stains on something. You did it already to both of them.

I'm positive I did. I think that was my first worry when I put it on was I'm going to do something to this.

And I even when I was just grabbing two shirts to come here for 2 days. Yeah. I didn't grab it.

Yes. I was like I was thinking of all the eating we might be doing. That's the smart.

Well, instead I'm wearing a a white shirt. Like I don't care about that. We can throw that in the trash,

right? I mean, that is true, but like I'm always when I put it on, I'm trying to evaluate. Do I care when people have a little oil stain on there? Like I I I'm just I can't decide if it's even a thing or not.

I think it's fine cuz I love that shirt. You have to keep wearing it. I guess it's going to be impossible not to get an oil.

These games we play, you're nailing something so on the head that I play these weird games. Like I could get I presume unlimited numbers of those shirts. There are merch, but I'm not. I'm dealing with the two that are stained that I've had for 2 months now instead of pulling.

And I definitely wouldn't bring it. Like you like I got this new shirt I love. I better not bring it.

Wow. Anything I like I try not to use. I do. Anything I like I don't I don't want to use.

Yeah. I've like ruined my Ted Seager's hat from sweating so horribly in it playing pickle ball,

washing it the way I shouldn't have and instead of grabbing another one out of the box cuz it's our merchand and I put it on my head once in a while and it's not right anymore,

but I still won't grab another one. What is that? That doesn't sound familiar to you, does it?

I feel like that's the shared childhood. It probably is a scarcity mentality slash like uh I I messed up so I don't deserve another one or something. There's probably about something about deserving

guilty conscience. Yeah, exactly. And we don't. You do deserve a question. You deserve the merch of the brands you invented.

Yes. I'm not sure about that. Um I do want to say one thing about time. Yeah. My dad retired.

Oh, already or coming up next year? He retired on New Year's Eve. On New Year's Eve

was his last day. He had to do his exit interview. And today's the second. He's probably in the deepest depression he's been in his whole life.

I'm try I'm trying to I think Monday will be a little harder because what's he going to do Monday morning?

So, okay. Well, this is of course my dad. He is going to do some contract work. So, he's going to go back to work.

Basically doing part time. He starts a new job Monday. Yeah. Well, entry level. you're going to climb that ladder at the same company, too. He's basically just like saying,

but it is a big deal. I mean, he's about to turn 72. He's been working his spry. In my mind, he's like 60.

I know. I agree. I know. I hate He kept saying, I'm 72 and I was like, I don't want to hear that.

Stop that. Stop saying it. And then it was so funny on New Year's Eve, right when the ball dropped, he was like, I have Medicare. He was so he was so excited that he he now has Medicare. For him, it's it's a way he's been he's been working the system his whole life, right? It's like he's been saving for retirement his whole life.

His plan is coming. It's here to fruition. Which to me, that's what's dangerous about life. Continue.

Yeah. Because to me, I would if I did that, if it was like, oh my god, and I'm saving for Medicare and I'm saving

and then it's here, I would be very depressed. It's like I not only did I work and my work identity is over, it's like I work towards a thing and now that's here now.

And this is the thing. Yeah. This is what it's like to have all your ducks in a row and you have done it perfectly. How does it feel? And then you're like, it's fine.

Exactly. It's just another day. It's all a mental trick. I know, but because he's retired, I want the world to know that he has a little more time to spend on the sim.

Oh, so things could really It's going to be a big year for my family, so he need to make some time.

Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. Okay. So, now we have a new fun thing for Mondays, which is we get to do the fact check seamlessly.

That's right. That's right. We're so excited about this. So, this is for Share. My mom, it was funny cuz um I guess my mom loved Share.

Oh, okay. Growing up, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. You know, she said, "I saw you were editing Share." And she was like, "How was that?" I told her, I was like, "You know, Sunny took all her money." And she was so shocked.

And then she, you know, she was like, "Yeah, from the outside when they got divorced, it was so sad."

Yeah. And she's like, "You just never know what's really going on." And it's so cool they continue to do their show after they were divorced.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, they did. Yeah. And was she like real young? Yes. Yo, yeah. She moved in with She moved in with Sunny when she was 16. Different times.

Yep. Exactly. That was a lot of the Well, she's got a story about like [ __ ] um Warren Batty when she was 16 and he's like a 30-year-old. I I don't know the age.

Oh, that's a fact. Oh, it is. Yep. Okay, we can do it now. So, Sher was born in 46. You can do fast math.

46 4. She's 79. She was born in May of yesterday. And um Warren was born in March of 37.

Whoa. Oh, what was her year of birth? 46. They're not as So, he was maybe 27 or 26 and she was

It's not as much as I was expecting. That's not too bad. That's all right. We can certainly live with that in the 60s and 70s.

Yeah, I know. Really different time. Yeah. But what was funny is she said she was like, "It was a different time, but I did have to lie and say I was 18." So it's like they they still she still knew, but she was kind of saying you had to lie because the men wouldn't

[ __ ] you [ __ ] you unless you were 18. Yeah. Or have you around cuz they thought you were like babyish

or just it was illegal depending on what state maybe. Yeah. I even grew up in an era where it was like

okay check well a okay a okay and then b like how old did she check her license? like that awareness of like is she really

that stuff was going on even in the '9s? Um, we were watching last night Beverly Hills Cop 2 with the whole crew and all the little kids and Lincoln goes in the middle of the movie.

Just was every guy in the 80s a huge pervert and I go I go, "Well, we still are. We just are much quieter about it now." But the movie you forget. It's kind of like when I watched Chips with them the other day and I'm like, "Oh, I'm so perverted. I didn't think I was this perverted, but now that they're watching with me, I realize I am." But like, yeah, there's just these random scenes like uh like, "Yeah, let's uh let's find the [ __ ] Let your dicks do the walk in. Wake up, dick." They're like,

"Let your dick point you the way. Point the way." It's just like a big blockbuster summer movie.

Yeah. And that's how we were. How long does it take you to shave those legs? Yeah.

You need me to be your groomer? I'm offering my grooming services. He just met her.

Hot. But let's get a lot of cashmere that way. Yeah. Um, speaking of your your movie your movie situation at this house last time you were doing Tom's Tom Cruz's cruises.

Yeah. And I was going to text you that my family start went to Tom did Tom's Cruz's cruises,

but it was shortlived. Uh oh. Um because the movie we started was Eyes Wide Shut.

No, that's not a family movie. Why did you guys pick Okay, that one. Because when I was flying home, I was listening to a podcast and someone said it was their favorite Christmas movie.

And I was like, "Oh." And I was like, "I've never seen it. I know it's sexual, but I've never seen it. And if if there's if it's Christmy, like, we're going to watch it." So that night, me and my mom and my dad

turned on Eyes Wide Shut. Yeah. And I It's a porno. It was a literal porn. Orgies. Everyone's so naked.

And I'm sitting there with my mom and my dad. How's that for y'all? And it's like this was a horrible mistake. And I was like, I am old because I'm not that uncomfortable.

Oh, good. Yeah. Like I was like, okay, I don't like this. This isn't recommended,

but it's tolerable. But I I can see you would have died, right? Oh my god. Yeah, your dad would have died. Well, actually,

my dad probably would have left. He might have left. Yeah. I will say no. Now, now that I'm a dad and I'm older, the stuff I thought my parents thought, they didn't think

like I'm not uncomfortable. Really? No. Yeah. Maybe he wasn't. They're like these your kids are these like they're a whole different category of human.

Yeah, I get that. I don't know how to explain it. It's just like all that stuff. I thought maybe my parents were uncomfortable at the same time. They weren't. You're just your dumb little kids and then they grow up, but they're still your dumb little kids.

But not the other way. Your kids are mortified. Yeah. You're like, h I don't want my dad to be watching sexuality. The

thinking. Yes. Acknowledging I guess that's my point. That's how I could sinly say it. Acknowledging your parents are sexual is deeply uh creepy.

Yes. Acknowledging your children are sexual is not, right? It's not a thing. It's like, oh yeah, they're little human creatures and they're going to be sexual and they're going to have boyfriends and that's all exciting for them. It's not creepy.

Yeah. But your parents like, oh god, did you ever hear your mother making love?

Yeah. Oh, they did. Well, they lived in a very small Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And Aaron's mom's so [ __ ] sweet, too. She might be the sweetest lady I've ever met.

Oh my god. My mom said uh she listened to mom's car. Oh, okay. Or watched it on YouTube and um and she I talked to her, you know, we don't talk often. She and she said she started crying and she said, "I am so sorry that um I didn't for childhood pretty much." Oh,

and I was like, where does that come from? And she goes, I listened to your episode. And I was like,

this is why they're not allowed to listen. And I was like, I don't even know what he said. But I then I was asking Ruth. She goes, I think was that you guys were like talking about Butch and throw. And I was like, oh, for [ __ ] sake. I go, would you ever guess she would be listening to that?

Yeah, I know. But yeah, I would never guess she listened to it. And then duh, she listened to it. If my kids are on a podcast when I'm older, I'm going to listen.

Yeah, I know. But they shouldn't listen. I deal with I I'm I deal with this with my mom, but I'm in a really lucky situation, which is like I often in fact the only person I'm reading my memoir to is my daughters and my mom.

That's nice. Um, and she is going through a lot of that stuff. I'm just constantly going, "Mom, like I'm [ __ ] I hit the lottery. Whatever the recipe is, I'm so happy." Like, I literally I don't say any of this with

regrets or sadness. It's just like, "Well, here are the facts." But we've have we've been going through that a lot for like two years as I'll like write certain events and then I'll read them to her and

it's kind of I think kind of good cuz then we have a good hour chatting about it all and

her reaction I wonder what your mom's is. My mom's is just like mostly, yeah, wow, all that happened and it feels like 10 lives ago and I can't really

connect all that and yet I know that all happened and I'm like, yeah, same. It doesn't mean anything. It's just what it is.

Yeah, I never wanted to talk to my mom about anything. I was just like pretending not.

That's one of the things. Yeah. Cuz then you kind of end up feeling guilty and it's like, well, I don't want to feel guilty about this. Like it's a weird cycle that starts happening.

Yeah. What you really want to say is like, well, well, it's just the truth. I have zero resentment against it. Like I have no ill feelings about anything.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm just like, that's cool, man. We all took a wild ride together. But also you guys are parents so you could I assume imagine that if you heard your kids

talking about some horrible stuff. You would also want to say I'm sorry for that.

Yeah. True. Yeah. So maybe it was good for her that she got to say that to you.

Yeah. You know, it's not like she It's not like she doesn't know. Yeah. Exactly. For sure. Yeah. Same with my mom. And then Yeah. And I think she's been able to say like I'm I'm really sorry. And I'm like I Yeah. You don't need to be. Yeah.

Yeah. You were [ __ ] 22 years old. I know. Two kids and a lot. Yeah. Um, share. Very on topic. It

is on top. You would love her book, dude. I think I might have already told you this. I loved it. She

talk about a wild [ __ ] ride. Through it. Yeah. And she's been a adult since she was 9 years old.

Yeah. Um, okay. So, Prim Nevada, remember she said Prim. I brought up her her mom's boyfriend was a man with the last name Prim.

Exactly. Who owned a casino and I thought maybe he started Prim Nevada, the whole town

but she didn't know. So the casinos and resorts in Prim Nevada um are primarily owned and operated by Affinity Gaming, though they were originally developed by the Prim family, Ernest and Gary Prim.

Right. Gary Prim. It says who the town is named after. Mhm. Okay, that's cool. I looked up, are you born with your temper? Oh,

okay. Um because she said her dad had like no temper and so she could relate to him kind of because of that cuz the rest of her family had a has a big temper. Yeah.

Um it says you're not born with a specific temper, but you are born with a temperament, a baseline for emotional reactivity that's influenced by genetics around 20 to 60% and shaped by your environment and learned behaviors. Meaning some people have a natural predisposition to frustration or strong emotions that can be managed or worsened by how they're raised and experience life. I have a bad temper, I think.

Yeah. You like real bad? I have a bad temper, I think. Crickets. I don't know. Do you sure?

I'm easily frustrated. I'll say that. Yeah. You don't have like temper. Well, no, you have your tantrums. Those are fun tantrums. Yeah,

playful tantrums. But I don't think I get angry that fast. Maybe I do. I don't have a thought. Just so you know.

You can have a thought. It's your birthday, so you get to be whatever it is. No, no, no. I have none. I'm like um I'm evaluating you real time with you as you explore this.

I have a show. What I think is your murial. That's worse. No, material sounds cool.

It sounds cool, but it is bad. No, it just means that you have a lot of es and flows in your

Yeah. uh disposition. Yeah. But mercurial is like this is funny. We're going too long, but I got to say I I couldn't not observe it.

I think there's so many funny gender things. I just constantly see them. And then as I enter different age groups, I see the gender thing play out differently. But

yeah, I'm We went to this very special place in the Bahamas. Yeah. Over the break. and everyone's wellto-do. And I just was observing I think men men just we just don't want any emotions.

Yes. And we're so afraid of emotions. We don't know what to do with them. And um and then we get resentful at you if you have them.

And so we're constantly, if we're in a position to, we're trying to create the perfect environment where everyone will be happy, which can't happen obviously, but but you think it can. You go, well, take everyone to where it's warm and it's a nice house. Clearly, everyone will be happy for six days, right?

And that's of course not the case because you can't buy your way into just being in a good mood.

No, you can't. So, I'm experiencing that, but mostly I then I get distracted by noticing, oh, all the dads here are having experience. Like I'm watching a table like with a meltdown happening and I can just see on the guy's face like [ __ ] Amy and I [ __ ] brought everyone here and the food's good and it's sunny. Like why is everyone so upset?

Oh my god, I do that too. Do you do that? Yeah. Like so I pay Yeah. You think you can create the perfect situation where you'll control

really what I think as a guy you're trying to control is no emotions. I know. Which is like

you want loved ones. I like I like loved ones. I know you guys only want the good ones, but it's just that's not real. That's not how it works.

And can I I mean I I actually I can't say this about Aaron because I've never seen it.

But you have ne you have bad you have negative emotions. Never come up and they affect people too. And that's life

and it's okay. Yeah. But vacation should be perfect. That's why we went there. We all declared this was going to be a perfect week. That's the gnome of the compact. But look, that's also your expectations.

Like I was crazy sick. Still am a bit sick, but like with my brother to New York, you know, really really sick.

Yeah. But no one heard about it, you know. I wasn't laying in bed. People were bringing me things and I wasn't like, "Oh my god, I'm so sick." But you know, some people got a little feeling less than perfect on the trip and it's just like a big event that they're sick.

I know. Is that not a gender thing? No. I actually men that are Yeah, I think they kind of can't handle being sick personally, but I think just cuz you don't share that you're sick

doesn't mean other people shouldn't say that they're sick or get taken care of.

Yeah. I also You're with your brother, so that's probably neither of us knew how to take care of.

Yeah. But if you were home, you get taken care of. People do try to take care of me for sure. Yeah,

I don't do well with that and I try to minimize you seeing that I need any help.

Right. But you're right. It's probably just me. It's probably not male, female.

Do you like Do you like being taken care of? Well, I wish I could lie. Don't lie.

But I can't lie. It's been getting pretty uh ridiculous. I like to be taken care of. GOOD. AARON, GOOD. I'M GLAD YOU'RE saying that. It's a good

I mean, it's limited to one person, I'll complain to, but I'm like, yeah, kind of been turning into that a bit.

Oh, good. It feels good to have someone take care of you. It feels safe. It's nice.

Well, and I've always Well, like I've always been taken care of by Dax. Yeah. He's always been the caretaker who can't show weakness. So, can't receive.

I don't think that person. Yeah. Um I think you allowed me to help you sometimes.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Might be harder for you. Becoming clear it's just my issue.

It might be more of a male thing though. You might not be able to receive help from a male

more than You probably can receive a little more from women. Yeah, that's definitely true. Yeah. I've never liked it in the past, but I definitely like it.

I've learned I've seen it get out of control where I'm like I'm like, "Oh, you're not feeling good either." And I was like,

"Well, I'm not here to do the taking care of, right?" Yes. Like now we're really getting somewhere, too. Cuz I do think a good chunk of mine is like, "No, no, we're all in an agreement. We're in a social contract. Handle your business." They're like, "I don't want to receive it because I suck at giving it." And I'm like, "Don't give it to me because I'm when it comes time to give it to you, I'm gonna suck out of this and I don't want it."

Even though you're not going to suck at it cuz there's no way of sucking at it other other than just saying like, "Are you okay? Do you need anything?"

That's crazy to me. Yes. So, women are great at that. I My thing is like I can't fix it.

I don't know that you're going to Everything I need to say I don't know if it's true. I don't know if you're going to be okay. I don't know if you're going to feel better tomorrow.

Don't say you're going to be okay or you're going to feel better tomorrow. You just say, "How are you?"

And then I'll go like, "Can I get you?" Like, "Can I do anything to help?" And they'll say,

but I know there's nothing to do to help. It feels like [ __ ] You're going to feel like [ __ ] for 5 years.

It just it just means something that somebody is thinking of you and somebody's like wants to whether they can do anything, they want to.

That's exactly right. Yeah. And that's the hurdle I have to get over. Yeah. This I had to get over 18 years ago with Kristen. She was like, "We should go to Africa this spring." And I would go, "Well, we can't go in spring because you're doing that movie there and I'm doing blank."

Oh, that sounds that's the reality of it. And I don't want to be promising you we're going to Africa in spring when I know that's not possible. So, I'm so literal and I have such a fear that I'm going to disappoint something. You know, I've promised you something. Yeah.

So, I'm not going to do that cuz of your mom. And then after a year or two that I realized she just wants to know, I'd like to go to Africa in the spring with her.

That's what she really wants to know. Like I we should go to Africa in the spring. Yeah, we should.

Okay. And that's fine. And what I had to learn and trust is she's never going to be mad at me come spring and say, "Why aren't we in Africa? You said we were going to go to That's never happened." But I had to

learn that that part's never going to happen. So now I can be like, "Yeah, let's" She'll go like, "Let's go to such and such tonight." And I'll go, "Yeah, that sounds great." And in my head, I'm like, "We're never going there tonight. I know this thing's happening at 4. We'll never make it."

Okay. The other day she's like, "Oh, they did a popup of the Home Alone Pizza Shop in um on Ventura Boulevard in Studio City at Pizza Place, Princess Pizza." Okay.

They did they made it look like the Home Alone Pizza Place, which again, I don't even know what the Home Alone Pizza ordering pizza. They don't have a pizza place.

And then they order at the beginning. Oh. So they make it that place. Okay. And Erica took the boys and everyone had a great time.

So this is Friday night. Yeah. In LA. Yeah. And Kristen says, "And we're going to go to a party at

7 or 8. We're going to drop the kids at the Hansen's." She goes, "Let's go to this popup at 6 before we drop the kids at the Hansen at 6:40."

Sure. And I'm like, "Not a [ __ ] chance." Yeah. We'll drive there in rush hour.

But you say yes. I said yes. I go I go great. Um that is gross. We drove there in rush hour. We got there and lo and behold there was a line two blocks long.

No, you did drive there. Which I knew would be the It's Friday night in LA a week by the Hansen anyway. That's true. That's true.

It wasn't like completely I knew I like I'm like okay I'm gonna say yes, let's do it. I go great. Let's do it. I'm like it's not gonna happen. Wow.

We But I go, "But we'll be in the valley. There'll be other places to eat. We'll get drive-thru. We'll make this work."

Uhhuh. But I was smart enough just to go like, "Yeah, let's go." And we went there. It was everything I thought. There two block line. Kristen goes, "Oh, [ __ ] this." I'm like, "Yeah." And I'm already know. I'm like, "That is I'm almost like actually real gross there." I

I am impressed. I haven't done that yet. That I that I find it hard. And then I just What's suspicious is I go, "Oh, well, let's hit shark." Like clearly I decided two hours ago we'll be able to hit Sharkies. No one will be there on Friday night and it's right by the hands. I just from the sec like as she was saying that lines long. I'm like let's just go to Sharkies cuz I already knew we were going to end up at

that's because you you know her that's very individual. You've adjusted and what she wanted to know is that her partner was excited to try this fun thing she heard about that could be really fun and she's with someone who wants to go do that.

That's nice. And I got to give her that. Right. And the outcome was all the same. We didn't go there. We didn't wait in line for two hours like I thought. But

you drove there. But we drove there. Yeah. That that I have that is impressive. That would be hard for me. I don't think I could do it.

It's hard. It's hard. I would have to say the reality which is like, okay, but there will be a line. So, we either have to go really early or we probably won't be able to go.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I'm impressed that you can do that. That's very impressive. impressed.

Well, this brings us all down perfectly to New Year's resolutions, which do do you have any? I have two. And then this is one of them.

Um, no, let me hear it. One is just continue. I'm not going to crack it this year, but I know, and I've already vocalized it like

we got to not be affected by the emotions of other people. We got we got to [ __ ] get on this like it's a job this year. I like

so this is front of the mind like you're just going to let everyone have all their emotions and not

but do you get to do you so in that case are you able to have any like when don't need them?

No spoken like a true dad. Well, it's the expectations. It's just having the right expectations, I guess.

Yeah. Yes. True. had I thought we were going to go there and walk right in and get a slice of pizza and then we got there and then it was 2 hours and then she did want to I mean luckily she didn't want to wait in that line that could have Well, we couldn't have cuz we had to be at the party.

Exactly. Yeah. Um okay then then sprints. Oh yeah. I want to do sprints once a week this year. They're the worst. When's the last time you did a sprint?

A long time. I just decided if there was They're hard on the knees. They're hard on everything.

I'd be terrified. Yeah, they just tear everything. But you know, don't you know intuitively like, oh, if I can run full speed, I'm in good shape.

Yeah. Like if ever there were one signal of your fitness, it's like, can you run as fast as humanly possible away from an animal? That's pretty important.

Do you got to work up to a sprint? Like I'm I'm thinking of and this is even a long time ago, but I

baseball fantasy camp. It was before that, but it was just a softball league, like a bar league. Yeah.

And I was so excited to play some ball. Yeah. You know, and I'm drinking and I'm everything else and I'm uh not stretching and not doing anything. I [ __ ] crank the ball my first at bat

and I take off like a son of a [ __ ] and just tore my hamster on the way to first base

and I had to be the catcher the rest of the year. Oh no. And have a pinch runner.

Like today's going to be day one. Mhm. I'm going to do six 30se secondondoo uh sprints.

Wow. But today 30 seconds. That's long. That's what I keep reading is the magic number.

But can you maybe work your way up? 30 seconds is probably like a 200 meter okay

run for me. I don't know. When we were kids, remember um Brooke did the he did the one lap like a quarter mile in like 59 seconds. I remember. Bill Booker.

Bill Booker, junior high. That was his last name. Yeah. And Brady Tucker. Those two were the fastest [ __ ]

Brady Tucker is built like sliced along eighth grade. Yeah. So muscular. Anywh who, so I'll probably run at like 70% today so I don't tear

your birthday. But within four sessions, I intend on running as fast as I can for those 30 seconds.

Wow. I hope I won't rip anything given that stretch. Make sure you're stretching. Really stretch.

I hate stretch. I also tore my hamstring and I don't stretch. I don't stretch ever.

No, the older you get, you have to start stretching. I believe in a warmup, but I don't believe in a stretch.

Stretching is Yeah, it does negative things for me. I and I know pickle ball and everyone laughs at it, but like I walk into where we play pickle ball and every [ __ ] [ __ ] is doing the most stretches when they get there and I'm like,

I'm like, give me a break. I mean, come on, right? Let's get real. I play every day and I don't stretch.

Yeah, I shouldn't said that. Yeah, you're going to rip something. You're going to rip something in the next time you see.

Okay, my New Year's resolution is stretching. But it might be now because I do want to stretch.

You need weight training. Oh yeah, I do. I have to get back into that. But your farmer carries.

My farmer. I did do some accidental farmers carries over the break because of shopping.

Oh, sure, sure, sure. That was tough. I was carrying a lot crusade and all this other stuff.

Did you do any jogging this trip? Cuz you generally jog on your trips. I normally am very good at exercise when I'm home and I was not.

Yeah, it's okay. I need to do my exercises, but I will. That's Yes, that is a resolution to get back in a routine, a workout routine. And I had another one, but I forgot it. I feel like that wasn't obviously that good.

More material. No, I guess less material. I don't know. Um, oh, well, one that we kind of talked about on the Christmas special is I do I want to get

I want to have um a looser grip on on change. Right. Right. Right. Right. I want to accept change more. Yeah.

And not be so scared of it. So, yeah. All these things are the exact same thing, by the way. Funny enough. Yeah. And and also just this like

if you could start by telling yourself like I'm not going to die. Like, okay, she wants to go to this pizza place. There's no way it's going to work. But at the end of that, no one's going to shoot me in the head.

Yeah. I'm not going to be in pain. Like things won't go my way. Yeah. And but I'll be just fine. That's hard to uh for me to believe,

right? That if I don't get my way, we'll be upset. But it's not even a get Okay, I'm going to give you a little something here, though. That's not not get your way. That's do something you know is not going to work out.

Yes. Yes. That's different. That's true. That's true. That's true. It's like you're entering a situation that you know

is Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that I think is hard that but also and it won't kill me.

It won't kill you. No, it's fine. If I can just get to the part where it's like you're control it's like they're doing this and they're doing you know whatever the thing is that's stressing you out.

Yeah. And you're like yeah and then I'll also be fine. I know it's it is all also sort of um cousins to getting taken advantage of and and things like that.

Yeah. Yeah. Like they don't respect my time. They don't you know, but again, we know it's like none of it's that deep. No one's even thinking about us.

Well, but I know, but then I don't like that. But that's a thing. I don't like that there's zero thought about

Yeah. Uh the other people um who did Phil Spectre murder? M he murdered actress Lana Clarkson

um finding her dead from a gunshot wound in his California mansion in 2003. He was later convicted of secondderee murder and sentenced to 19 years to life in prison, dying in custody in 2021.

Oh, he's dead. Yeah. Can you visually picture what he looks like, Monica? He's insane looking. Google a picture of him. You can Can you picture Phil Spector?

I sure can. Same hair, dude. He look the same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. scary like that. He looks like a murderer.

I can't believe how many women he worked with or Yeah. Um, wasn't he? Yeah. Iina.

Yeah. I think he did all that. He he he was doing Sunny and Sher. Yeah. All the Mottown.

Iina. Yeah, you're right. John Lennon, the wall of sound. That was his Yeah. Wall of sound. Good job. Okay. You said hund. you you were giving her like credit for all the stuff she did and you said 100 million albums which what's the I'm kind of confused. So she's sold over 100 million records.

Yeah. But I think albums means like how many you're putting out, right? No. Albums records. Same

same thing. Yeah. Okay. Was that number right? Over 100 million records. That's [ __ ] crazy.

Yeah. I was just I saw this over the break. I saw a list of the top 50 rap albums of all time.

Okay. What would you do off the top of your head? Like what do you guys think? Who's leading that?

Um like a single record or artist? Yeah, it was like per album like number one rap album of all time sold. And I'll give you a hint. It was like I think it was 51 million copies.

Eminem. Boom. Eminem was five of the top 10. Oh wow. Jay-Z wasn't he didn't show up on the list until like 40. I think his biggest album had like 7 million.

And I was saying to Kristen after I read that list, I was like the industry is weird. Like Jay-Z's a billionaire.

And he's in 38th with only one album on the list. Yeah. And I was thinking like what you're really talking about is like the monetization of Cool.

Yeah. And Cashache. Cache. Like it's so weird. Jay-Z doesn't have these 50 million, but he we all know he's the coolest [ __ ] to ever do it. And so if he has clothes, I want those. And if he has this, like it's just interesting how you can skin a cat.

The the respect that comes with some people, it's worth a lot. Yeah. Like MC Hammer's above him,

right, in like number eight or some [ __ ] with the, you know, no one's wearing those pants and

No one's wearing those pants and he's not a billionaire. I still proper though.

You do? Yeah. Mhm. But I mean it is to me the reason I picked it is because white people listened to Eminem. So

white people listen to they listen to all but not all white people in in certain areas they don't and they would listen to Eminem. So I feel like he was really universal. M

I remember thinking I remember when his album came out, the first one which was 99 maybe or close to that 2000

Mom Spaghetti. Um My Name is Slim Shady. Yeah. Yeah. And um the real Slim Shady album was

I remember being at the Detroit Fireworks um like in a sea of craziness if you remember.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that was one of the last years I went because I was like what? Why do we do this? It's people get shot. It's like and you can't escape. Anyway, so I remember that song or that album was playing everywhere and there's barely white people at least where I was. And I was like, "Wow."

Yeah. He broke through. The weirdest thing about Eminem is like a I think he probably is the most skilled out of all them. White or not, his his his poetry is off the chart. Like his rhymes are

more than Jay-Z. Yeah. And Kanye. Yeah. Yeah. They're so abstract yet work. They're so complicated. The things he's rhyming don't make sense. Like I think he's next. I think he might be skills-wise,

but he was never for me. Like I can I can totally appreciate the mad talent, but I never owned an Eminem album.

Yeah. And I'm not sure why. Maybe because in fact in this case he was like I don't want my rappers to be like

I'm getting it to get a glimpse into your world and I love being able to get this authentic glimpse into your world. It's like wait this dude grew up in Clarkston by me. Is that where he grew grew up?

No he grew up in uh Okay. Yeah. 8 Mile the movie I guess. All right. We really did it here.

Okay, I think that's it. Um, happy new year and happy. All right. Love you. Love you.

Love you.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Cher | Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard"?

In order: 0:00 Burlesque, Aaron Weekley, Believe, Closer to the Truth; 15:00 Believe, Prim Nevada; 30:00 Phil Spector; 45:00 Believe, Nicholas Cage, Lucy Ares, Share Inc.; 1:00:00 Burlesque; 1:15:00 Believe, Brandon Maxwell, Golden Globe; 1:30:00 Affinity Gaming, Prim Nevada; 1:45:00 Believe; 2:00:00 Eminem, 8 Mile, Believe, Clarkston.

What is mentioned in this Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard episode?

31 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Believe, MC Cher, Sunny, Eminem, Burlesque, David Geffen. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Cher | Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard"?

The episode runs 2 h 6 min; the transcript is about 25,131 words in 751 timestamped sections.

More from Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.