Transcript

Rewriting History, Kumail Nanjiani, Fuggler Ethics | Fact Check for Kumail Nanjiani Returns

From Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 52 min · 10,147 words · 279 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Rewriting History, Kumail Nanjiani, Fuggler Ethics | Fact Check for Kumail Nanjiani Returns", an episode of Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard published January 12, 2026 (52 min, about 10,147 words). It mentions 20 people, works and ideas, including Camille, Moral Dilemma, Mays, Santa Monica, Kumale Niani.

What this episode is about

The discussion explores the complexities of personal history, trauma, and memory, specifically relating to the experiences of comedians Kumail Nanjiani and Karen Sony. It reflects on the subjective nature of recollecting past events, particularly in the context of cultural identity and the perception of racism, while emphasizing the importance of questioning and re-evaluating one's memories and beliefs.

Key takeaways

  • Navigating racism often feels like playing chess; sometimes, being an exception is your only winning strategy.
  • Memories aren't always reliable; we revise our histories just as easily as we rewrite our narratives.
  • Racism's complexities reveal a spectrum; even the most absurd beliefs can shake hands with moments of understanding.
  • Being an exception might shine a light on privilege, but it also reveals the burden of representation.
  • Affluence can be a double-edged sword; it shields you from some prejudice but singularizes your identity.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Camille, Kumale Niani, Santa Monica, Karen Sony
  2. – 10:00: Adolf Hitler
  3. – 15:00: Moire, Manifesting
  4. – 20:00: Self-Cleaning
  5. – 25:00: Moral Dilemma, Jonathan Haidt
  6. – 30:00: Moral Dilemma
  7. – 35:00: fuglars, The Good Place, Fuglers
  8. – 40:00: Unstoppable
  9. – 45:00: Teeth Nightmares, Santa Monica, Andy Bethstead
  10. – 50:00: Evan Peters
  11. – 52:21: Camille

Notable quotes from "Rewriting History, Kumail Nanjiani, Fuggler Ethics | Fact Check for Kumail Nanjiani Returns"

  • Yeah. there's there's a lot of overlap between Karen obviously and Camille in that they're both growing up, one in Pakistan, one in India, but both little guys that are really quite afraid of their environment.
    about Camille · at
  • To be a little wrong cuz your memories shift and stuff and morph over time. There's revisionist history. Great podcast.
    about Revisionist History · at
  • In that and I said to him I said you know what feels really unfair for me as I write this memo Moire is any one of us have had every experience in childhood.
    about Moire · at
  • I guess that's like at to what extent is it self-cleaning and to what extent is it not? Where does the self-cleaning line get drawn? Yeah, it's the demarcation.
    about Self-Cleaning · at
  • I'm trying to think what topic came up and I was just yeah, you get to pick what you think is moral or immoral. And I think she was asking like a right or wrong question, and…
    about Moral Dilemma · at
  • And in my opinion, there's too many fuglars. Like you shouldn't have this many fuglers.
    about fuglars · at
  • Okay. I you said 67% of people have teeth nightmares.
    about Teeth Nightmares · at
  • We say most things wrong in Detroit. So, well, and I was there and I looked at the clock and the fact check was starting in 11 minutes.
    about Santa Monica · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Camille — Person · Co-host / speaker · 2 mentions · first at
    Camille shares personal reflections on childhood, racism, memory, and self-image; she also participates in the ethics/waste debate and other tangents.
  • Santa Monica — Person · Co-host / fact-checker referenced · 2 mentions · first at
    Monica is referenced as the person who will later correct mistakes ('fact check'), and appears in the opening as 'Mrs. Monica' (mom).
  • Kumale Niani — Person · Referenced prior guest / comparison point · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned affectionately and compared to Karen Sony as having a 'sweet core'; also referenced regarding privilege and fast fashion.
  • Karen Sony — Person · Referenced person (friend/acquaintance) · 1 mention · first at
    Used as a comparison for 'specific sweetness' and discussed alongside Camille as someone who grew up in a fearful environment and hid sexuality.
    Oh, this is interesting. I guess it borders on racist, but he has a similar sweet core that I think Karen Sony has.
  • Adolf Hitler — Person · Extreme reference point · 1 mention · first at
    Used as an anchor for the far end of the racism spectrum—an example of rigid, unchangeable racist ideology.
    And Hitler's on one side, which is like Jews are genetically inferior. They all suck no matter what I'm witnessing them do. Spectacular, right? you can't they can't you can't penetrate his level.
  • Jonathan Haidt — Person · Referenced expert · 1 mention · first at
    Invoked to label the soap-in-toilet scenario as a 'moral dumbfounding' style dilemma—feels wrong despite being arguably harmless.
    It's kind of a Jonathan Height like moral dilemma. moral dumbbounding dilemma cuz like Yeah, it's it's like technically and morally fine.
  • Evan Peters — Person · Referenced actor (tangent trigger) · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned while recalling a prior conversation about an Indian man with an extra thumb (polydactyly), used to discuss 'othering' and body anxiety.
    Like feeling like what do I So many things in my calendar and Yeah, I get that. Okay. Was it Evan Peters and mayor of Easttown? Yeah.
  • Andy Bethstead — Person · 1 mention · first at
    But I looked up our jaw muscles attached to emotion because also Elizabeth lame Elizabeth and Andy Bethstead. Nobody's listening, right? she talks about how she can't have sex and unless her jaw is like relaxed.

Products & tech

  • Mays — Product · Consumer product discussed · 4 mentions
    A collectible toy line (for Delta) used to explore gift-giving, consumerism, privilege, and ethical judgments about 'too much stuff'.
  • fuglars — Product · Consumer product discussed · 1 mention · first at
    Another toy/collectible referenced as an example of excess consumption, used to highlight hypocrisy and difficulty judging others' consumption.
  • Fuglers — Product · 1 mention · first at
    And in my opinion, there's too many fuglars. Like you shouldn't have this many fuglers.

Concepts & topics

  • Moral Dilemma — Concept · Core framing device · 3 mentions · first at
    Moral dilemmas appear in multiple forms: soap dropped in toilet (disgust vs logic), and Delta's questions about right/wrong and wasting.
  • Self-Cleaning — Concept · Disgust/contamination concept · 2 mentions · first at
    Debated in the soap-in-toilet story: whether soap is 'self-cleaning' and where the intuitive 'line' of cleanliness is drawn.
  • Teeth Nightmares — Concept · Dream/anxiety motif · 2 mentions · first at
    They discuss prevalence of dreams about teeth falling out and link them to stress/powerlessness; contrasted with newer anxiety dreams about phones/flights.
  • Moire — Concept · Memoir-writing concept (mispronounced/variant) · 1 mention · first at
    Raised during discussion of writing a memoir and how one can string together selective memories to construct different life narratives.
  • Manifesting — Concept · Referenced self-help practice · 1 mention · first at
    Camille describes her brother's vision-board approach and links it to confirmation bias—seeing evidence for desired outcomes.
    Chatting and I said my brother's a great believer as am I in that like he's a vision board person.

Places & events

  • Pakistan — Place · Referenced origin context · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as Karen Sony's childhood context, paired with India to draw parallels in fear/trauma and identity concealment.
    Overlap between Karen obviously and Camille in that they're both growing up, one in Pakistan, one in India, but both little guys that are really quite afraid of their environment.

Media & podcasts

  • Revisionist History — Media · Referenced podcast recommendation · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as an example of how narratives and memories can be reshaped over time, aligning with their discussion of memory morphing.
  • The Good Place — Media · Referenced media example · 1 mention · first at
    Cited to illustrate how difficult it is to be ethical in modern life, aligning with their debate about consumerism and moral tradeoffs.
    This is why The Good Place was made.
  • Unstoppable — Media · Referenced movie (tangent) · 1 mention · first at
    Briefly mentioned as a movie reference while the conversation jumps topics; not central to the episode's main themes.
    Yeah, he doesn't have to. Unstoppable is a movie with Denzel.

Full transcript with timestamps

I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong.

Kumale. Kumale Niani. We just like him so much. We do. He's a sweet boy. So nice. He's so He's a good boy.

He is. Who was reminding me of him recently? Me. Oh, this is interesting. I guess it borders on racist, but he has a similar sweet core that I think Karen Sony has.

And I don't know if somehow it's related, but it's a very specific sweetness. Yeah. Karen is very sweet.

Yes. Yeah. I don't think it's racist because uh you don't think I have it. No. Yeah.

No. You have other great qualities. No. I don't even I mean I think it's a great quality. I love seeing it, but I don't like wish I had it.

Yeah. I mean, there's there's a lot of overlap between Karen obviously and Camille in that they're both growing up, one in Pakistan, one in India, but both little guys that are really quite afraid of their environment.

Yes. Karen hiding, you know, his sexuality and being terrified and then um Camal seeing a guy get shot, you know.

Yeah. And then leaving there. I don't know. I don't know. some there's some there's some connective tissue.

Absolutely. Um, speaking of that, speaking of connective tissue, trauma. Oh, I don't mean to correct you, but I can't believe I said that so wrong.

When I was home in Georgia, Yeah. I had a great time. And it was very It was But it was funny cuz I Sometimes I wonder because I've been here a while, been here in LA.

Yes. that like I've made some stuff up in my head. Oh, sure. Yes. You know, I relate.

Yeah. And I'm like, am I being like hyperbolic about some of this stuff or the way I remember it or

Yeah. was there racism or like maybe not actually. I don't know. You know, I start questioning it. Questioning it. And I think it's good to question it. Like we have these ideas that are built and like maybe that's wrong. And of course there always going to be a little wrong cuz your memories shift and stuff

and morph over time. There's revisionist history. Great podcast. Yeah. Incredible.

But I was kind of This is so bad to say. I was kind of relieved. There was a couple moments where I was sort of affirmed

that those things weren't imagined. Were not imagined. Yes. And I was talking to someone specifically who I I'm very close to who was talking about I have to be careful here who was talking about their father-in-law. And I grew up with this person. This person knows me very well.

Yeah. Yeah. And she, my friend, was telling me just like how bad how how racist it's gotten.

Uhhuh. In that house um with this person, father-in-law. And I was like, and I said I said, "That's so weird cuz like he knows me,

right?" And she's like, "Yeah, well, you're an exception cuz you're rich and famous." And I was like, "Oh my god." And then and then there's another person in that person's life who's also Indian. I said, "What about this person?" And she was like, "He's kind of an exception, too, just cuz he's been around, but there's still some weirdness."

And I was like, "Wow." And it the when she said it, it was a light bulb for me cuz I was like, "Yes,

that me being an exception." Uhhuh. Is like what's driven my entire life. Sure. Sure. Sure.

I think it's part of what has driven me to be to work so hard. It's like across the board. It's just like I have to be an exception.

Yes. Yes. Across the board. And I think that's then just bled into all areas of my life, work and

anything, relationships. I think that's an in incredibly sound theory. But I would also suggest it's like it's some percentage of the pie because your parents are gangsters. Your genetics are awesome. You are going to be a go-getter wherever you grew up as well. And then, you know, I think if I were you, I would certainly feel this way because you can't afford to make room for the nuance, but I'd imagine you think like racist is one thing, right? It's just like this hatred of all people or whatever.

But when we're watching that wonderful documentary and those bozo white nationalists are sitting with this Indian woman and they're like, "Well, not you." And I think there's mass confusion within their own mind. I think they have like they have a cartoonish um archetype in their mind that they hate.

Yeah. Right. Whatever the characteristics they've assigned to this group that they hate.

And then yet, weirdly, I think they're open to when they meet someone of that group that's not displaying these uh arch, you know, these stereotypical archetype things they think they hate, then they go like, "Oh, well, I don't hate this one." Mhm.

So I think like it is even racism is as complicated and nuanced and probably individual as every other opinion like full of contradictions.

Yeah, I think that's right. I just think that's the problem. Like if they the hope would be that if they met or knew

Uhhuh. someone of that race Yeah. that that would then shatter the racism the whole Right.

the paradigm. But I think they go, "Oh, this is an exception. This is an exception."

And then, but they're open to meeting three more exceptions that day. I know, but who cares if the overall, you know, I know what you mean.

I mean, like, it's a spectrum probably. And Hitler's on one side, which is like Jews are genetically inferior. They all suck no matter what I'm witnessing them do. Spectacular, right? Like, you can't they can't you can't penetrate his level on that.

And then I'm I just think it's a crazy spectrum. How is anyone the other group to know where this person's at? Like how irrational are they in this opinion?

Well, it it is definitely a huge spectrum and people make exceptions all the time, but I guess when I'm what has happened to me over my life is I used to be very um you know, I needed to be that exception for survival, but I would like really

I didn't care. I didn't care about the other Indian people. As long as I got through, I was fine.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I And now I don't feel that. I I'm like, [ __ ] that. Like you take all of us or you can't just don't I'm not an exception.

Right. Right. Right. I'm like everybody else. All a cart. Yeah. Yeah. So So it's it's changed I think for me over as I have grown.

It's interesting. There's so many like little minute layers to all of it, you know? It's like I may learn that Israelis on the personality tests are the highest disagree disagreeability of all the ethnicities, right? like this is a confirmed thing we've had experts on talking about

and then I might meet an Israeli that doesn't seem that disagreeable and I and then I have to make room for like all right sure in general they overindex in this but again there's so much variety within this thing I also have to go like yeah I can't just assume they're all disagreeable cuz

right because there's yeah because it's like I'm doing it I'm sure in ways that aren't like overtly racist or hostile or or with any sense of superiority just like what I think I know about different groups.

Yeah. And then you have to constantly be making room for the individual. Well, racism is not about making I mean there I guess making generalizations as a part of it,

but it's the making generalizations that lead to a feeling of superiority or a feeling of hatred.

So if you don't have those other pieces, it's, you know, less of it's not as much of an issue unless you're making all these assumptions about people that aren't true. For the most part, that's the that's the issue, right? It's like, oh, they're all like this and so that's gross or bad or

Yeah, I can give a personal example on my own. There are I grew up around a couple different cultures. Some of these cultures definitely there was an increased machismo and what I thought was total disrespect for females.

Yeah. And I went, that's wrong. Mhm. not I'm better. So even within like superiority, it's such a broad word. It's like I definitely felt like what I was doing was right and what they were doing was wrong

per my morals and ethics. Yeah. But I at no point was like I'm better than or I'm superior or if this person hadn't grown up in my household, they wouldn't be the same. It's just like, oh, I know this group of people. They're

they're pretty [ __ ] hyper masculine and aggressive and I'm not for that. Yeah. And yeah, it's really complicated, but I love what you were exploring at the beginning because um my brother and I had like a really really profound Well, first of all, we had this beautiful trip together right before Christmas.

We went to New York together and um I have had the great luxury of going to New York a ton of times and getting to live in different areas of the city when I'm working. And there's a whole part of New York I love that I don't think the tourist really knows. And I very much wanted my brother to see that side of it cuz he even said like, "Why do you love New York so much?" for him it was it's Time Square in Central Park and I'm like well yeah that's that's a great

those are great but probably not worth going to multiple times. Yes. So we went and um we were on this long we walked everywhere. We walked like 17 miles a day and I think we were walking across the Brooklyn Bridge and we were chatting and and I said um

my brother's a great great believer as am I in that like he's a vision board person.

Uhhuh. and he imagines what he wants and he puts out into the the world this these positive outcomes he wants and it's very effective for him

manifesting I love it and he manifest it right and he thinks positive thoughts and he knows positivity begets positivity and and and um and we're talking about confirmation bias like yeah if you think everything's upward trending you see the proof of the upward trending and you ignore the downward trend and then you don't get bogged down in that

and I said to him I said you know what feels really unfair for me as I write this memo Moire is any one of us

have had every experience in childhood. I can really I have the data or the plot points to create any story I wanted.

Sure. Sure. Sure. Because all I got to do is string together the 15 times this thing happened and I decide that was my childhood. And I said to Dave, I said, you know, I've really been I I want to get this out of my system, the memoir. And the goal is when the memoir is done, I'm going to start looking back on my history a lot differently than I have been, which is I have to acknowledge, yeah, these things happened to you and I, but if we really added it up, that's probably was 03% of our experience on life. They're so hyper memorable,

right? Because they were so dramatic and stuff, but in reality, we're looking at 99% of the time we had a damn good sitch. And I said, "And I want to start constructing a different story about my back." I said, "I think the same thing is true about looking forward." I think we I need to apply it looking backwards. Now that I said it out loud, I like feel a commitment to like

That's good. I mean, really, you you could you could, you know, you could look at the 12 situations where someone discarded you and you could look at the 12 that they showed compassion to you because you were other. I bet you also received a lot of

I would hope some teachers that recognize this girl's other and well and I want to make her feel inclusive, you know, like I bet there was acts of generosity that pro you know they those don't hurt and in in and stick in your memory but I bet they were there

for whatever reason. I am very aware of the cheerleaders and angels in my story. Those are the main characters for sure. I I am I have no

questions about that. They're every like it's startling. I feel like so lucky in that.

Yeah. Um me too. Yeah. It's it's I mean no one gets to have a life like this without it. You just don't. You have to have a lot of people who believe in you. You have to have a lot of support and luck and not just from your family, from just like random people. Yeah.

Um, so yeah, it's Yeah, when we um when I was home, I saw my old cheerleading coach, which was so fun. And um she she we were talking and I was like, "God, how did how did you do it?" Like, "How did you make all of us 15year-olds care so much about this thing? It became it was life or death. It was like if we didn't win, we were going to die.

You were at the Olympics in your mind. Yes. We were We were all working together so hard. A huge team of people.

Yeah. And everyone was on the same page. And like she said, she said, "I don't know." She's like, "I I don't I think about that all the time, too. You guys were so like the dedic she too was sort of blown away by that." And she's been still she's still she runs a gym. she's um so successful in what she does, but she looks back on that too. And so there is just some like kind of some weird luck you get like I landed in that environment where you had to show up. There was no other option but to be your best and

Yeah, there's just so many lucky parts. You're going to love Angela Duckworth's new book. I'm reading like a precopy of it.

Oh, fun. It's all about the power of situation. She hinted at it the last time she was here. She's like, "Grant was grit was all about individual willpower, determination, dedication, blah blah blah."

And I think you might have remember she had a graduate student of hers that was kind of like, "This is a little bit of bullshit."

Remember, you kind of like call her out and God bless her, she was like open enough to hear him out and started exploring. And so

yeah, like the last decade of of her life post grit has been really opening herself up to the enormous impact of environment, everything around you. And she points out like everything around you is objective and then everything inside you is completely subjective. Right.

Yeah. And um Yeah. That thing you experienced on the team, you were a product of an environment.

Yeah. Where each of you challenged each other and rose and she said, you know, yes, you can get born into terrible situations. Yes, you can have terrible parents, but you always have some situational agency.

Mhm. And I think if you recognize the power of the situation, you can put yourself in different situations, you'll respond accordingly.

I love it. I'm loving it so much. Oo, I'm so We should have her on to talk about

We must. We must. Yeah. Okay. Exciting. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare. Okay, I'm pivoting because I have a really important question.

I can't wait to answer it. So, what would you do if your bar of soap that you wash your hands with? Okay. It's hand soap, but it's a bar.

It flies out. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And you like it. You like that soap a lot. Uhhuh. Volcanic ash.

No, that's from my body. Oh, okay. Um, you're washing your hands and it flies out. Slippery.

Yeah. Hands directly into the toilet. No problem. Really? Not a problem. Wait, is there feces in the toilet?

No, but yan. Little bit of yan. No, but it was just flushed. Yeah. Like seconds before.

Yeah. No one is going to like this, but this is a fact. Okay. Your kitchen sink is a thousand times more dangerous than your toilet bowl. There is way more harmful potential harmful bacteria on your in your sink. So if you dropped your hand soap in the sink, you wouldn't think anything of it. You'd rinse it off and and wash it a little bit.

Yeah. Yeah. That's it is interesting. I wash my soap sometimes, which feels insane. You're like

I guess that's like at to what extent is it self-cleaning and to what extent is it not? Where does the self-cleaning line get drawn? Yeah, it's the demarcation.

Yeah, but that wouldn't that would be fine for you. Absolutely. Wow. It's just water in there.

And there's a little bit of your yan residue, which is mostly residue. Poo poo residue.

U duty. No. Um stool balls. Stool balls. We heard this is Easter egg for armchair anonymous coming up.

That's right. So this happened to me obviously. Yeah. Um what did you do? I already know what you did. What do you think I did?

You You used it. I didn't. I am. I don't even know you. I know. Like I was staring at this. So, you know, I have round I have this soap. It's round. It's very cool. It looks like a stool ball, but it's white.

Begging to be slipped out of your hand for crying. I know. But I've used it enough that it's like now it's just like a dome. Like the bottom is flat, you know? Like it's half cut in half.

And um semihemism. Mhm. You know, it's like slow motion. And I saw it twirling in the air and then plop right in the middle of the toilet. And I I looked at it for a while cuz I was like for a second and you know this is kind of like when I thought the rat got in the kettle. Like sometimes my brain goes a little haywire.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like should I just flush it? [ __ ] up your hole. And then Yeah. I was like no I'm not I can't I can't flush it. That's bad for the toilet. It'll clog. But I was like, "But I don't want to put my hand in there." For some, I like really did not want to put my hand in. And

feels off brand for you. You'll get down. I know. Remember that one time? Yeah. What did you do?

Have I even Have I talked about it on here? I'm sure I did. Remember when I first started my seizure medication?

Yeah. And I had my morning BM. Yeah. Yeah. It was like the first day and I looked and it was in there.

The medicine was the the capsule. The whole thing. The entire thing. Yeah. I needed to see I had to see.

That's right. That's right. I do remember. Yeah. You had to for your health. I had to.

That's right. But this for some And it was It was flushed, but it was recently flushed.

Uhhuh. I was like, I don't want to put my hand in there. And then I did. I feel like I'd just be able to I'd get rid of the top layer of the soap and be done to fresh.

I mean, that's I that's what my thought was. It's like, should I just rinse it off? It's soap. It's self cleaning. I just get this top layer off, but I was like, I don't believe in selfcleing anymore all of a sudden. And I threw it in the garbage.

I was going to say, so my um my curiosity is killing me. How did you retrieve it? tongs from

No, I put my hand in. Oh, you did? Yeah, I did. I thought you were saying you didn't want I didn't I didn't want to, but I was like, I guess I have to. And I put my hand in and I grabbed it and I just threw it straight in the garbage. And then I had to get another soap to clean my arm and my hands,

right? There's a whole thing. It's kind of a Jonathan Height like moral dilemma. moral dumbbounding dilemma cuz like Yeah, it it's it's like technically and morally fine.

Yeah. But it felt really wrong. Yeah. Yeah. So, I had to throw it away. That makes me think of I took Delta to breakfast on Sunday. I'm trying to think what topic brought up morals and ethics.

Oo, it was really fun to start exploring that with her. What is she? I mean, she's so ethical. I think

I do, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of innately. Yes. Quite ethical. She is. Yeah. I don't know where she got it.

Oh my god. I'm trying to think what topic came up and I was just like, yeah, you know, you you get to pick what you think is moral or immoral. And I think she was asking like a right or wrong question, you know, and we got to explore it. Anyways, I just It's so fun to be having deeper and deeper conversations with the kids as they get older.

I love that. Yeah. She was reading She has a graphic novel she got for Christmas.

You might have seen this. This was at um my birthday dinner. Wait, that's the Oh, I thought that was Kristen's.

No. So, I don't even know who got it for Harley. Oh, my sister. Yes. That makes so much more sense because

tell me you were flammixed. Yes, because Kristen pulls out this book and and I I maybe I jumped in the conversation late cuz she said Carly got this. It's about this car and I thought it was for Kristen

and I was like she got you a graphic novel. Like I did think that was weird. Off

brand. Kind of like me putting my hand in the toilet. Yes. Um, but now that I know it's that makes so much more sense.

Yeah. So, we just had the sweetest conversation cuz there's some adult themes, I guess, in it. And she wanted to know if it was okay

that she was reading these adult themes and she felt like maybe conflicted. And I said,

um, your gut will tell you. Yeah. Your gut will tell you when you're ready for things and when you're not ready for things. And just listen to your gut. There's no right or wrong or it's too early or too late, but your gut will will tell you. So, don't worry. You don't have to worry about what's right or wrong.

Yeah. You just have to feel what's right or wrong for you or when you're uncomfortable. And maybe even sometimes you're uncomfortable, but it's tolerable uncomfort.

Yeah. Yeah. She's so cute. We had a horrible situation where um I you know, she loves these legs,

which I think is take also taking the world by storm. They're so cute. These little mice Greek characters.

They're like little 3D printed things. No, they're cloth. Oh, they're clones. Yeah, they're really cute.

Okay. Um and you collect them and then you collect their little, you know, house, you know, little like

appliances and Yeah, those Oh, yeah. They're all over the house. They're so cute. I kind of feel like I wish I could have some.

Yeah, but it feels like maybe Well, you could definitely have some. You think a guy might be

Yeah. weirded out. This is kind of like the dype conversation from 2020. Oh, if you were wearing your diaper,

if you were when you were 20, if you like met a girl at a bar and you hooked up and then she said, "I got to throw my diapee on before I go to bed." Yeah. Yeah.

I don't I think if you're cute, you pull it off and I So, I think you could pull that off for sure.

I just don't think there's an amount of cuteness that gets uh to the dip. Yeah, the dip.

Well, you know, we asked all the men in the in the pod and all the women were like, "Absolutely not." Yeah.

And the men were like, "Yeah, how cute is she?" Yeah. I don't remember. You could kind of go, "Oh, this is adorable. This girl is so I mean, she can't be a child. You don't want to be with a That's You got to be really clear about what's happening. You're with an adult.

Yeah. Then you find out this adult wears night dice. Is it is efficient because it's not Okay, this was also part of it. It's not that she can't control her no pee or

cuz all day long she doesn't wear a diaper. It's just that she doesn't want to wake up in the night to go to the bathroom. to remind people this stems from my game plan of starting to wear nighttime diapes so I didn't have to wake up and pee anymore.

Yes. Yeah. Um and then people were like what what about when you're traveling? I'm like I'll get a [ __ ] diap when I go to that city.

Like that's the question. Anyway, Mays. So they're really really cute. And um she wanted one of the things on her list for her birthday and Christmas was a dollhouse for her legs. And Kristen told me about this and I and Kristen was like, "She doesn't need like an official one. You can just get her some random one." And I was like, "No."

Plywood box. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like get her a shoe box. And I was like, "Absolutely not. If she wants the official one, she's getting it."

Yeah. And so I go on the website, the USA website, Melee, and um it's I order what's there.

Uhhuh. Okay. and I'm excited and I tell her it's coming. Um, and then we go to Nashville and someone had got her one for Nashville, too. That's going to stay in Nashville.

Okay, great. The one for her that I ordered arrived while I was gone. So, I saw that it arrived.

But I didn't see it. Right. So, then we're in Nashville and she's like, "Oh, you know, look at this." And she she was showing me the box. I was like, "Oh my god, it's so cute. Exciting. Well, you'll have one for both houses."

Yeah. And then I get home and I was like, "This box looks tiny." Oh, okay. Now I'm up to speed cuz I saw you guys unwrapping this yesterday or the day before.

A couple days ago. Yeah. I was like, "Oh, no." But but then I came I was like, "Well, maybe you have to set it up.

Maybe it expands." The box looked too small, right? That was the issue. Way too small.

And I got nervous cuz I I just She deserves the best. Well, yes, she does. And I I was like, "Oh my god." And then I So I come into the house and you I don't see her, but she's there, but I don't see her. And you're standing there, and you're like, "What is that?" And I was like, "It's Delta's dollhouse, but I think there's something wrong. I don't understand. It's so small. And I don't know. This is bad." And then she like pops her little head out and it's like, "It's going to be perfect. It's perfect." And I was like, "I don't know, Delta. It's looks really small." And she was like, "It doesn't matter if it's small. It It's exactly right." And then of then I'm like, "It better be a mansion dollhouse like for her. It has to be so perfect." And then we opened it

and it is wrong. I mean, it's it's right. It's what is available on the site. I looked it up, but like so I don't know how you guys got that other one for Nashville cuz it's not on that USA site, but

I don't know either. I'm I'm really conflicted about all this still. No, I love it. So So then it's now what I got her is a suitcasa. So it's just this like small suitcase

and you know and I and I you know she took it out and I was like h you know I responded very negatively. You really yucked the the yum the potential yum.

Yeah. I was like h sucasa what is this? And she was like it's great. And she was like, "This is perfect. I I need different kinds and everyone has different size houses, so it's good." And I was like, "Oh my god, this person is so sweet. Like, it's it's unbelievable."

You now just joged my memory of how we got on ethics. Okay. She randomly said to me at Cafe 101, cuz I do, and I'm I'm on the fence about this, but I do it. I let her order more. I let her order whatever she wants. I can relate to it, right? Like just the way we grew up versus how like, you know, if she wants pancakes and she wants eggs, I'm like, "Yeah, go for it."

And she just out of nowhere, she said, "Dad, do you want to tell me I can't order as much?" I go, "You know, here's my thing about you ordering too much. I don't care if you order too much. I can afford to buy it." Um, I said, "And I recognize that you have a lot of decision anxiety." And for me, it's very easy to solve that problem with another $6 order of pancakes. Yeah,

but I do worry a lot for failure because you're going to grow up. You can't afford to [ __ ] order whatever you want. I feel like I get scared I'm not preparing you for

the world. The world. And she said, "Okay, but is it wrong?" That's how we got on it.

Is it wrong? And I said, "Well, you know, there's a lot of rungs to this ladder. There's like legally what's right and wrong." I said, "There there are morals we would all agree on. M don't kill, don't rape, don't steal, don't hurt other people. I said, and then there's this whole area where you have to decide what your own ethical code is.

Yes. And one of mine is I try not to waste. Yeah. And I try to leave the world as I found it, and on a great day, I leave it a little better. I said, you notice you've never seen me ever leave something in the sink. It's a stupid moral of mine. I just won't leave it worse than I found it. And she said, "Okay." And I said, "So, you have to decide if you feel guilty about wasting,

right? And it's personal and it's up to you. I'm not going to assign you your morals, but um that's what's kind of on the table." And she said "Okay."

Okay. I want you to tell me I think you're ordering too much. You're going to waste some in the future.

Oh. And I said, "Okay." And then she got a um to-go box for her French fries. We're never going to eat these French fries. Like, while she's doing I want to be like, "Well, this isn't the time. These [ __ ] things are never getting eat. They're going to sit in the fridge for [ __ ] eight days and then I'm going to throw them out. Blah blah blah. But I just had to kind of honor the moment. So then we walked out with a a half eaten order of French fries. But anyways, this little girl, this [ __ ] little girl.

She's too much. She really is too much. It's It's like a lot. It's a lot. It's overwhelming. Um, but I have I have zero I come for me in the comments. I won't read them.

I have zero guilt about wasting food. I I don't And it's it is kind of weird. It's like why don't I?

Well, you can make a lot of compelling arguments in all directions. So, one of the arguments I make for myself when we are wasteful is like we're wasting our money, but I'm putting it into the world. I don't think I should be sitting here and squirreling everything I have. So, I just always remind myself when I have kind of wasted money, well, I wasted it by giving some small business that money or some manufacturer, whatever.

So, in that way, I'm like, well, that's not bad at all. In fact, the more we get out of my pocket and everyone else's, that's the best probably.

And then no one's going to like this. They'll come for me in the comments. Food, it it is not a finite resource. It is. So, there's growers making money. There's the grocery store that sold it. There's all these people in this chain that were employed.

And yes, if you want to zoom out, is an unethical cuz someone's starving over there. Yes. But that's a totally false argument cuz I can't get that food to that person over there. And if I don't waste it, it's not going to like it's a hypothetical that's not reality.

So I don't get bogged down in that. But the thing that gets me more uh I spun out and I can't tell it's just my own child and what's going on is like so this thing you're talking about this these toys

mays. Yeah. Mays and then there's fuglers. Yeah, we talked about fuglers. And in my opinion, there's too many fuglars. Like you shouldn't have this many fuglers. And then I walk outside and I'm like, and I have seven cars I've collected over the years. So like I I'm not in a position to be critical. But then I go, "But I bought those cars."

Yeah. But she didn't. This is why The Good Place was made. Exactly. Being ethical at all times is nearly impossible in our modern world.

There's not to one person it's this and to another person it's that. Like it's also why we're so divided. We all have such different ethics and and what we think I mean to me yes there are some things that are there objectively wrong and I and sometimes when I hear other people's talk and I'm like you don't think that

it's like so startling um but then but I agree with you there's this middle portion that it really is very very very individual

um because weirdly weirdly for me wasting is almost like it's like a personal respect like I like when I am at a restaurant

and I order something I eat what I want to eat of it. Y and if I was like you have to overconume.

Exactly. Yes. Agreed. That's another one of my arguments is like to make yourself take on excess calories your body told you you don't want is insane to make who happy. and just like I don't want anymore. I should be okay with not wanting anymore. I don't I the there's a gluttonous

element on the other side of it. Yes. That's like I don't like the way that is in people.

Mhm. So I don't I don't know. It's weird. Chris and I talk about this a lot cuz we get in a little debates about what what is wasty and what's not. And my opinion is you have to also be very pinpointed about when is it waste. Once you've ordered it, it's done.

Yeah. Exactly. It's completely done. If you bought something from the store and you brought it back to your house and now you're keeping it in your house because you don't want to waste, that's a that's a fantasy that the buying

some people eat it. Well, I'm just saying people will us Yeah. We have just [ __ ] piling up cuz we would feel terribly guilty to throw it away. Stuff you can't donate. We do a lot of donate. But

yeah, but my point is always like it's too late. If you want to cut back on waste, it's the buying of it. Totally. That's right.

Once you bought it, forget it. You're off. you might as well do whatever you want. Whether you eat it or you throw it in the trash or you stick it in your ass or you light it on fire, it's irrelevant. It's that you bought it and now it'll be replaced with more manufacturing. So, that's done. It happened the second. There's no wasting or not wasting it. It's over.

Yeah. I'm also reading the Ezra Klein book, Abundance. And uh yeah, he he he he gets into climate in a in a in a really comprehensive um all facets way which I love which is like you have different movements within the environmental movement and one of them is really just a judgment on consumerism. A lot of the environmental movement people in it what they really want is they think we made this in in this pact with the devil years ago when we became a consumeristic capitalist society. Right? So what they really want is for us to not be that way.

Now what are the odds the world's going to do that? That's not going to happen. That people are not going to go back to a prematerialistic world,

right? He said, now you have another bigger group which is like there's clearly a lot of waste in the system and there's a lot of um resources being spent on stuff that shouldn't be spent on.

Yeah. The problem is people don't agree on what those things are. Oh, and then I think you get down to what I hope should be everyone's core value is like my ethics aren't above yours,

right? They're mine. Yes. You got yours. That's a superiority in in the in the all knowingness of thinking yours are the ones everyone should agree on.

But what about like the one like what about like if someone's like, "Well, I'm allowed to like hurt this person." It's like that should there should be some, right?

Well, again, that's why there's ones that we actually all agree on. Everyone agrees that you shouldn't be allowed to assault people, kill people, rape people, steal from people.

I guess those are laws. I guess that's what they ten commandments. They're like, you know, they've been agreed upon for quite a long time. And then this other batch, like as much as you're convicted about it. It's the other batch.

It is funny though because I was I am very materialistic. It's no uh secret. I like buying stuff. I like

looking nice. I like whatever. Um, but I was at a store at home, a store I like, but I was looking around and all of a sudden I was just like, there's so much stuff.

Crap. There's just stuff. It's all just like random stuff everywhere. What are we do? Like I did have this like, what are we doing as a as a people?

Yeah. Well, he brings that one up. He's like, of all these buckets, you've got fast fashion. Cement. Cement is an enormous emitter of carbon when it's made and it's we need it for construction. It's like

you certainly have one person saying we don't need a [ __ ] another football arena. The other one works

legit. I'm going looking at fast fashion and going that shit's you don't need that.

Yeah, but I want you know like totally. Well, it's hard though because it's like there are sides to so many parts of this because fast fashion for me I'm like okay I'm against fast fashion right because I can afford

Yes. Exactly. It's a total privilege to have that privilege. So to me I'm like you're a young poor girl you want an outfit man.

Of course you want an outfit and you should be able to have it. That is also what I feel. So I'm like, ah, I'm so conflicted about this cuz I do think there should be that available for people who who don't have the privilege I have yet. Then what I do is like I think there should be some of those options, but I should not participate in it.

Yeah. Since I don't have to. Exactly. Like you do the things that you can do or that you're willing to do.

Yeah. But the judgment is the problem. The across the board judgment is like not looking at any nuance.

We must all get a little looser on our grip of allin all this all you know definitive it's left it's right. All these different binaries are like

guys life in its best outcome is like we tried to service five or six principles and we did we optimized all of them as much as we could but they all took a hit along the way.

Yeah. I also I I just think maybe a good resolution is to be more focused on you your how you walk through life.

Worry about what you're doing. Yeah. And if and if this thing that you're doing Yeah. Just try to be the version of you that you think is ethical, moral, whatever. And and stop looking outward.

Don't tell a [ __ ] single person about it. Live your life and you'll be appealing to people who will want to model what you do. Be an example. Don't be a [ __ ] preacher.

Yeah. Yeah. Um anyway, yeah. Cuml on fast fashion. Did we get that out of him? He I forgot to ask.

He does not wear fast fashion. He's very welldressed. Yeah, he doesn't. But he's privileged.

Yeah, he doesn't have to. Um Unstoppable is a movie with Denzel. Sure is. and Chris Pine

and Ethan Slee. Exactly. That's probably how we got on the subject. Okay. I looked up how much the Coons vacuum cleaner in the box is worth. A Jeff Coons vacuum cleaner artworks worth varies significantly with some new Hoover convertibles selling for millions. Example over 4 million at Sibies, over 5 million at Christies. while smaller inspired or vintage models might fetch a few hundred to a few thousand dollars at places like eBay, showing the vast difference between collectible fine art and regular items. Okay, so his are in the millions.

I want to say that the one that one Yeah. my friend found the piece of I don't know if I told that whole story in this episode. The reason I even know about these vacuums is a friend of mine worked for the insurance company that had insured them. And I know that the collection I want to say there were three in this collection. I think at that time were $8 million and this was 15 years ago.

Yeah. And there was a piece missing. Yeah. At some point the the art piece had been serviced or cleaned and a piece got lost and then there was a claim laid on it.

And so if we don't find this piece, the insurance company has to pay out $8 million. And my boy found the piece.

Oh. He's like a salute. Wow. He just has to go to New York and befriend all these art critics and find get himself into this warehouse.

Interesting. Wow. That is a cool looking vacuum. I have to say it's very cool. But what's hilarious is all it is is the the vacuum

from the store in a looseite box with a light under problems. That's where my ethics are drawn. Like I would not feel ethical putting an existing thing in a looseite box and calling it my art.

I would not feel ethical doing that. Mhm. But Jeff is his own guy and it's beautiful. Something about it. I think it's ridiculous. And I look at it and I like looking at it.

Sure. Yeah. Okay. So, he said he had just gotten some massage on his jaw and then he was crying about his dead grandma.

Oh, yeah. And then I looked at I want that experience. Do you? Um, nah. Nah. So, my emotions are already avail.

That's true. But I looked up our jaw muscles attached to emotion because also Elizabeth lame Elizabeth and Andy Bethstead. Nobody's listening, right? Um she talks about how she can't have sex and unless her jaw is like relaxed.

Whoa. Like it's like connected to like her horniness. Oh my god. Isn't that interesting?

Yes. So, is his job to massage those and keep them pliable or um I Well, I'm sure he does if he wants.

My only route to sex was relax mastoids. I feel like I'd become an expert on masseuse

on loosening mastoid. Excuse me. That was disrespect. What did you say? I said masseuse.

Oh, yeah. I want a massage therapist to reclaim that title. The way women have reclaimed [ __ ] and

I agree. Black people have reclaimed Yeah, we know where I'm going with everything.

Um so, So, um I looked it up. Yes, jaw muscles are directly linked to emotions, stress, anxiety, anger, and even happiness. Cuz jaw tension or relaxation through the body's fightor-flight response and nervous system leading to clenching or a slack jaw. And this physical tension can also worsen emotional states, creating a feedback loop.

So, that's cool. Yeah. Um Okay. I you said 67% of people have teeth nightmares. Um looks like 39 to 40% of people have dreams about their teeth falling out or rotting at least once making it a very common nightmare theme. Though rates of recurring dreams are lower, around 8 to 16%. These dreams are often linked to stress, anxiety, or feelings of powerlessness. But sometimes physical dental irritation like teeth grinding during sleep can trigger them. Um, yeah, nearly four in 10 adults have experienced teeth dreams.

I'm so rare. I mean, I guess technically I'm in the majority of these are right, but like still,

you just don't have that nightmare. I don't. You must not carry a lot of tension in your jaw. I had always thought it was my orthodontia history,

right? But it's it's actually your powerlessness history. Eight powerlessness. Yeah. I had a dream last night that I was late. I was like I was in um Boca Raton.

Okay. Okay. And I and I had to get No. Was I in Boca Rat? I think so. And And I looked at the clock.

Boca Raton or Boca Raton? I don't know. I think it might be Raton, but in the Boca Raton.

Maybe it is. Maybe we were saying it wrong in Detroit. Um, we say most things wrong in Detroit. So,

well, and I was there and I looked at the clock and and the fact check was starting in 11 minutes.

Oh, wait. Oh, you were in Boca Raton or Tan and I had to get here in 11 minutes. to get to the airport.

You can't do it in a lot. And I was trying I was like trying to get and trying to get my bags and I couldn't get to the right bag claim and it was a lot

more than my teeth. Now what has taken over my teeth is my goddamn phone. I'm always it's always a flight.

I always need to check if I can delay like find another flight later cuz I'm not going to make it to the airport and I cannot get my phone. Like every time I open my phone I'm on a weird screen and I have a bug. It's like the old days on your computer when it get taken over on AOL.

Yeah. Then you just [ __ ] pop up screens every you could not you had to throw your computer in the trash. It would just take over.

It would get a virus and it was just done. Viruses. Yeah. Yeah. So in my dream my phone it always has this virus and I can't get to the internet to change my flight. And that now is

I'm having that one at least three times a month. Weird. Yeah. Huh. I think that might just be like having a a pretty busy schedule.

Sure. I think. Yeah. Like feeling like what do I So many things in my calendar and Yeah,

I get that. Um Okay. Was it Evan Peters and mayor of Easttown? Yeah. Um this was so remember when he told us a lot of Indians have an extra thumb?

Oh yeah, it's true. Pacial polyactyl. Oh, so this is specifically just the thumb.

Yeah, my twama. When he said that, I was like, "Oh my god." Like I like really kind of hated that.

The thought of an extra thumb on Indians specifically even more other. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I like why that's the guy he was talking about. He is very handsome. Oh my god. So for the listener, it's not what you think. It's not two individual thumbs. It's one thick thumb that then branches into two

right tips. Tips. Whoa. Wow. I've never seen that. And that's common in India. And what I love is he he doesn't he's proud of that.

He's not hiding it at all. He's a big movie star. I know a very big movie star. It's got a hand thing and he hides it really really well.

Yeah. No, he's owning it, which I love. have. But it does stress me out. It does. And the thumb itself, from the angle where you're looking at the palm, it definitely looks like a cute like not a frog head, not a turtle head. It does look like a like imagine the gap between the two thumbs is a mouth. And then I see an eyeball on the top.

Yeah, it kind of looks like Marcel the shell seashore. Yeah, it's a little character.

Yeah, I he must Does he Do you think he has dexterity in it and he can um I hope

Well, he would have to, right? But I wonder if he can make that move like a Pac-Man mouth.

I think he can. Oh wow. Now while exact numbers for India are scarce polyactilly um is notably

that way. Your middle name is Lily. Oh my god. Oh my god. What if I had it and they got it removed? because hold um notably more common in Indian populations especially pacial polyactillially

um extra thumb toeside with some studies suggesting rates as high as 1 in 3,000 births in India much higher than general global rates um okay a strong genetic component it says obviously

die yeah it also says though that a lot of people get it studies they get it removed at like birth.

Sure. Okay. That means 400,000 people in India have it. If it's one in 3,000, right? If it's one in 3,000, 400,000, you could make a damn good living as the doctor who does this.

It's the second most common congenital hand disorder. What? What if I had that and they got it removed?

You didn't. How do you know? Cuz you'd have a massive scar on your thumb. And to my knowledge, I haven't inspected your thumb in great detail, but I think you

What if I just You screamed out loud. Oh. Oh, I'm so lost. That's okay. We all have our things. Every group has a thing.

Well, no, it's it's like it's fine. Yeah. It just I just was imagining growing up here with that.

Oh, it was hard enough. You'd have to wear gloves or something. And then you, well, would you rather be known as the girl that wears the glove or the girl with three thumbs?

As a kid, I know I'd rather be the guy who wore gloves. And you could just go, "Oh, my hands are really dry and that the doctor makes me wear these gloves." As you get older, you're going to have to like pull your gloves off at some point when you find your true love.

Oh my god. This is why I I would I would really I would not you'd be shut down for cuz you're you're very attractive and you you're you're a real catch and you're already mildly shut down. So, if we would throw in a third thumb, I think

Well, you know me, like I have a weird again I like a self-hatred, I guess, but of like if a if a freckle or a like a mole mainly even a freckle like pops up on my body,

I I like really can't handle it. I like have to dig it out which cuz probably causing cancer. It's also a contradiction which is you love Delta's mole on her face, right?

Yeah. The most. Yeah. And freckles on other people. You love it. I know it. It has nothing to do with other people. I know.

I I Nothing. No. I would I'm going further. You actually like it in other people.

Yeah. I think it's You hate it on yourself. Yeah. And like I have this freckle on this finger right here.

Yeah. You're always working on that. Yeah. It like it appeared in the last few years and I hate it. That is so I mean I don't want to call it crazy.

No, it is crazy. It's crazy. I know it's crazy. I'm like what? How could I be so fixated?

I like it. You can see it. You just held it up so I could see it. I thought maybe it was invisible to everyone except me. Now I hate it even more.

No, I like it. And everyone likes it. And sometimes I'm typing and I'm just like, ew.

You have to think of it as a part of your constellation. I don't want that. Okay. Um, so

maybe you start wearing gloves and then you'll be like, "What happened?" You get a new thumb

when have that thumb finally come in. That Indian thumb. Oh my god. All right, that's it for Camille.

Okay, I love you. And everyone likes your freckles. So, don't look at him. Don't zoom in, guys. Do not zoom in.

I want you to revisit hypnotism. He passed away. I know. Really sad. He was such a sweet.

He was a really nice man. that story he told about the woman that loved him and he thought he needed erectile dysfunction medicine and she said, "You don't need that. Let me take care of you." Do you remember he told that story

at all? Oh my god, it was the sweetest story. He told it with such tenderness. A

I know. I really really liked him. Go back in the archives. I get hypnotized. Yeah,

it's pretty. And it kind of worked. We'll say it worked cuz he's passed. I'm going to get you hypnotized. And the only goal of the hypnotism is to um convince you that it worked the first time.

When you wake up, you're going to think the first hypnosis worked. Exactly. All right. Love you.

Love you.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Rewriting History, Kumail Nanjiani, Fuggler Ethics | Fact Check for Kumail Nanjiani Returns"?

Dax Shepard (Host), Kumail Nanjiani (Guest), Monica (Guest).

What is "Rewriting History, Kumail Nanjiani, Fuggler Ethics | Fact Check for Kumail Nanjiani Returns" about?

The discussion explores the complexities of personal history, trauma, and memory, specifically relating to the experiences of comedians Kumail Nanjiani and Karen Sony. It reflects on the subjective nature of recollecting past events, particularly in the context of cultural identity and the perception of racism, while emphasizing the importance of questioning and re-evaluating one's memories and…

What is mentioned in this Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard episode?

20 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Camille, Moral Dilemma, Mays, Santa Monica, Kumale Niani, Self-Cleaning. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Rewriting History, Kumail Nanjiani, Fuggler Ethics | Fact Check for Kumail Nanjiani Returns"?

The episode runs 52 min; the transcript is about 10,147 words in 279 timestamped sections.

More from Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 24, 2026.