Sara & Erin Foster | Armchair Expert With Dax Shepard

What this episode is about

Two sisters discuss their dynamic and personalities, joking about fame, family roles, and their own confidence while sharing light, playful banter. They touch on personal quirks, media formats, and how they’re perceived by others.

Key takeaways

• Celebrity parasocial dynamics are gold: fans blur lines, yet the creators monetize authenticity with precision.
• Self-deprecation plus tall-people banter is a surprisingly effective icebreaker; it humans the platform in under 60 seconds.
• The ‘Always Be Recording’ acronym reveals a culture where authenticity is performative for optics and engagement.
• Behind-the-scenes rebrands miss the mark when audience sentiment trusts familiarity over novelty—consistency trumps novelty.
• Discord between ego and fragility: guests pivot from vanity to vulnerability, revealing how reality-show energy fuels podcast growth.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Aaron Foster (Guest) · 31 min speaking
• Sarah Foster (Guest) · 35 min speaking
• Dax Shepard (Host) · 27 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 10:00: Dak Shepard, Nobody Wants This, Monica Padman, Favorite Daughter
2. 10:00 – 20:00: Favorite Daughter, Erin Foster, Nobody Wants This, Monica Padman
3. 20:00 – 30:00: David Foster, YouTube Premium, YouTube, Allstate
4. 30:00 – 40:00: Kate Hudson, Malibu, Los Angeles, Calabasas
5. 40:00 – 50:00: Switzerland, David Foster, Malibu, Ashton Kutcher
6. 50:00 – 1:00:00: Kristen Bell, David Foster, Brunei, Erin Foster
7. 1:00:00 – 1:10:00: Monica Padman, Donald C. Murphy, Hello Giggles, Sophia Rossi
8. 1:10:00 – 1:20:00: Barely Famous, George Clooney, Dak Shepard, Nobody Wants This
9. 1:20:00 – 1:30:00: New York City, New York, Dak Shepard, Nobody Wants This, Sara Foster
10. 1:30:00 – 1:40:00: Dak Shepard, Erin Foster, Favorite Daughter, Netflix, Inc.
11. 1:40:00 – 1:49:41: Sara Foster, Nicole, Dak Shepard, Erin Foster

Notable quotes from "Sara & Erin Foster | Armchair Expert With Dax Shepard"

• Exactly. We wanted to do something in the vein of nobody wants this. Nobody asked for this.

  about Nobody Wants This · at 2:56

• Know you guys are the daughters of David Foster. Yeah, I know. He has won 19 Grammys and had 45 nominations and [ __ ] I'm assuming he has insane amount of money, right?

  about David Foster · at 24:15

• Children's birthday party because the there was two boys and they were a fan of one of my movie and Kristen and I were dating for maybe six months. I get this email. It's the…

  about Kristen Bell · at 56:30

• Yeah. I think it was Barely Famous was our first show we ever got on the air and it was on the wrong network and nobody saw it at the time and so it was like I don't know if you would say it's a failure or not, but it.

  about Barely Famous · at 1:27:24

• Perhaps the most important no favorite daughter was a very fun distraction cuz it was also doing well and it was in a lot of ways low stakes cuz that wasn't my dream if it wasn't your identity.

  about Favorite Daughter · at 1:31:09

• No. No. Like actually tank it. She's we're not pitching. Like we're like you did not want to pitch Netflix.

  about Netflix, Inc. · at 1:33:17

• Well, you guys are fantastic. I'm so glad we had you on. This was so [ __ ] fun.

  about Dak Shepard · at 1:47:52

• Yeah. Exactly. She says the most offensive things to me and I'm just like they're all true.

  about Sara Foster · at 1:49:12

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Dak Shepard — Person · 5 mentions · first at 0:00
• Sara Foster — Person · 5 mentions · first at 22:38
• Erin Foster — Person · 4 mentions · first at 14:37
  She's like Well, I also did that a little on purpose cuz I, cuz I knew it was expected.
• Monica Padman — Person · 5 mentions · first at 9:28
  Did we Guys, did we overd deliver or underdel?
• Kristen Bell — Person · 5 mentions · first at 43:06
• David Foster — Person · 7 mentions · first at 24:15
• Kate Hudson — Person · 2 mentions · first at 31:26
  We went on Kate Hudson and Olly Hudson's podcast years ago and we talked about what it's like sort of watching your parent raise other kids and have and live a very different life.
• Ashton Kutcher — Person · 2 mentions · first at 40:02
  I met Ashton the day he came to town.
• Sophia Rossi — Person · 2 mentions · first at 1:05:35
  And then my girlfriend Sophia Rossi started Hello Giggles and I started writing on Hello Giggles. Well, yet this is Monica saying, and I love it. which is like love who loves you back.
• Donald C. Murphy — Person · 2 mentions · first at 1:07:28
  But you get a staff writing position on Ryan Murphy show.
• George Clooney — Person · 2 mentions · first at 1:16:51
  Pitt. Oh, [clears throat] yeah. You do have a great story on your pot about George Clooney. I'll let I'll let people go find that. You know what?
• Chris Jenner — Person · 1 mention · first at 14:31
  Erin, just like be cool. And we know her very well. I was trembling. I was Chris, like tell us like what's your favorite color? you guys and then Aaron goes, all right, so when you guys are flying private, who pays?
• Brody Jenner — Person · 2 mentions · first at 29:33
  Even though it wasn't true. It was our obsession with not being thought of like that. So like when Brody and Brandon did a reality show with our dad which was we were like…
• Ron Meyer — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:03:14
  Yeah. Jessie. Jesse. My best friend's dad was Ron Meyer. Ran Universal.
• Bob Iger — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:12:08
  Genius. You're a lucky recipient. it's a very pride. No, like Bob Iger came up to us at an event was I love the show.
• Bill Lawrence — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:43:15
  And then I Bill Lawrence was in here and he said I'm going to make you act on one of my shows. I'm I don't really want to do it. And he said, What if every scene's with Vince? And.
• Chris Hardwick — Person · 1 mention · first at 2:36
  Oh, yes. In 2018, you already had Chris Hardwick, you already had Marin, you already had Rogan. you we felt late.
• Joe Rogan — Person · 1 mention · first at 2:38
  Oh, yes. In 2018, you already had Chris Hardwick, you already had Marin, you already had Rogan. you we felt late.
• Paris Hilton — Person · 1 mention · first at 29:09
  Not to age anyone, but if you were going to, there was an era of like Paris Hilton and Kim, I guess, like other people who were sons and daughters of that had these careers in reality, TV, and were like.
• Jeff Bezos — Person · 1 mention · first at 32:12
  [ __ ] guilty of it. There are many people that I the thing I always say is like if Jeff Bezos falls down a flight of stairs and he breaks his leg and I'm watching I'll be like…
• Kenny Loggins — Person · 1 mention · first at 37:03
  Born. And he said, You guys were little and we never did a honeymoon, and then Kenny Loggins gave us their her house, their house in Santa Barbara to go for the weekend, and it…
• Kurt Russell — Person · 1 mention · first at 45:49
  No, your audience will throw up. I thought like my best friend's parents were Kurt Russell and Goldiehan. I thought my dad was a loser. Right. Right. Yeah. Snakekins versus a musician.
• Goldie Hawn — Person · 1 mention · first at 45:51
  No, your audience will throw up. I thought like my best friend's parents were Kurt Russell and Goldiehan. I thought my dad was a loser. Right. Right. Yeah. Snakekins versus a musician.
• Tori Amos — Person · 1 mention · first at 47:16
  Guys are talking about. I wanted to be like emo. I was like trying to be I wanted to like listen to like Tori Amos and like put black eyeliner on and like I wanted to be lighter.
• Leonardo DiCaprio — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:16:05
  I want to just like I would love to play a game. Like I know somehow I bet you've turned down Leonardo DiCaprio. Like he dated.
• Brad Pitt — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:16:33
  Just didn't have fun in life. Like I just didn't Would you agree you would know best? I think he looks like Brad Pill.
• Bradley Cooper — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:22:12
  Yeah. And were you like always Bradley Cooper or something? I don't have a memory of that.
• Julia Louis-Dreyfus — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:39:42
  Set watching her, you're just Oh, this is why tangle with Julia Louise Drifus. Like she could do everything. We call her an active robot. She's like AI. It doesn't [ __ ] You give her one note and it's perfect.

Books & papers

• Red Lights, Green Lights — Book · 1 mention · first at 1:06:08
  It just kind of made sense. Red lights, green lights. Yeah, that's his book, right?

Companies & orgs

• Favorite Daughter — Company · 6 mentions · first at 0:17
• Netflix, Inc. — Company · 2 mentions · first at 1:33:20
• YouTube — Company · 5 mentions · first at 3:07
  This episode is presented by YouTube Premium. YouTube was already great but Premium supercharges it. If you like YouTube, you'll love Premium. Try YouTube Premium for 2 months free at.
• Hello Giggles — Company · 2 mentions · first at 1:05:35
  And then my girlfriend Sophia Rossi started Hello Giggles and I started writing on Hello Giggles. Well, yet this is Monica saying, and I love it. which is like love who loves you back.
• Three Arts — Company · 2 mentions · first at 1:07:34
  Yes. Well, so what happened was I Sophia introduced me to Olly Ops who was at Three Arts and which was this pinnacle of like where you want to be as a comedy writer. and he wanted to represent me, which was huge. And I'd.
• Crossroads School — Company · 1 mention · first at 46:19
  The Malibu public school. So for Aaron, Aaron was I'm, she was like the queen bee. I went to Crossroads where everyone's parent was like a-list. My dad Academy Award winner. Yeah. Yeah.
• Free People — Company · 2 mentions · first at 1:06:54
  We were we did have a different like point of view on these things. Like Sarah was never going to stoop to working at Free People.
• Dorchester Hotel — Company · 1 mention · first at 57:18
  When he flew to London. like they fell in love on this flight from Granada to London. They landed and they went to the Dorscher Hotel and stayed there.
• VH1 — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:11:06
  And it really shifted a lot for us, but it was hard also because we ended up selling it to VH1 that really did only have reality TV. They didn't have comedies really.
• Bumble — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:27:57
  So making pilots, filming pilots, no one seeing them became the creative directors of Bumble in between all this. Like we took a job at a tech like a lot happened.
• Paramount — Company · 2 mentions · first at 1:09:40
  That still felt like a really big win to me. and I still felt like the person that's psyched to have the card to get on the Paramount lot. So, anytime I made something and it…
• Colum Mchuan — Company · 1 mention · first at 48:35
  Yeah, I applied by myself and I was Well, I went to like Colum Mchuan. You don't know that. Sorry. You grew up Okay. So, Colin Mchuan's like a summer school to help you graduate because you like can't get through.
• Beverly Hills Hotel — Company · 1 mention · first at 58:31
  We got home and then two months later he decreed Sharia law and they start boycotting the h the Beverly Hills Hotel which he also. I remember that.
• MTV — Company · 1 mention · first at 59:35
  Of course. listen, I did it, it was the modeling and then I was hosting a show on MTV. it was this like thing that you did in the late 90s, early 2000s, right?
• Warner Brothers — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:03:12
  Your classmates now running Warner Brothers for crying out loud.
• Universal — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:03:17
  Yeah. Jessie. Jesse. My best friend's dad was Ron Meyer. Ran Universal.
• Daily Candy — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:06:49
  Okay. So then I basically I'm writing for Hello Giggles. I'm writing for Daily Candy. Does anyone remember that?
• J C Penney — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:07:15
  No, but I did J C Penney cataloges where I modeled bras. Honestly, they were hot.
• LA Times — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:29:28
  And according to the New York Times, LA Times, whatever article I read, you were at a point too where you're I don't think I can write anymore.
• New York Times — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:29:28
  And according to the New York Times, LA Times, whatever article I read, you were at a point too where you're I don't think I can write anymore.
• Amazon — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:33:30
  You. This is She was happy when everyone was passing like Amazon, Apple, NBC. She was thrilled.
• Apple Inc. — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:33:30
  You. This is She was happy when everyone was passing like Amazon, Apple, NBC. She was thrilled.
• NBC — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:33:30
  You. This is She was happy when everyone was passing like Amazon, Apple, NBC. She was thrilled.
• NYU — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:40:10
  Oh yeah, she's been acting since she was a kid. She went to NYU to for musical theater.
• Red Lobster — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:06:40
  Foster sisters. I was just listening to your show. God was red. What is it? Red Lobster.

Places & events

• Malibu — Place · 6 mentions · first at 23:11
  House, but then our dad is this Grammy nominated producer. He has a mansion in Malibu. [clears throat] You're taking trips to Aspen and [ __ ] with him, maybe.
• Switzerland — Place · 3 mentions · first at 46:45
  Me so I kept like moving around different schools to see if like what would fit and she went to Switzerland which one had a lower enough yes that was a question I had. How'd you end up in Switzerland in a boarding school?
• Brunei — Place · 2 mentions · first at 56:59
  Was It was spectacular. We had so much fun. And then we fell in love with these kids and they said, You've got to come to Brunai for my father's birthday. It's the whole month of August.
• Los Angeles — Place · 1 mention · first at 39:20
  Why on earth? Again, that shows it was so [ __ ] weird. I have, I'm going to see my older Jewish doctors in Beverly Hills and every one of them's talking my [ __ ] ear off about my wife's show. And I'm you're a.
• Calabasas — Place · 2 mentions · first at 24:00
  So what was the childhood in Calabasas like? It was night. It was comfortable I assume. listen, we have it's not like comfortable financially always. we were.
• Nashville — Place · 1 mention · first at 17:46
  Yeah. Yeah. But interestingly, I had an experience like I don't know a few months ago in Nashville where I tried to do it differently with Sarah. So, we had a work trip. We…
• New York City, New York — Place · 3 mentions · first at 7:35
  You places. Like I can't walk I can't live like this. Like I can't we can't talk to 100% of the people we see on the street in New York City.
• Detroit — Place · 2 mentions · first at 40:18
  But what I'm saying is I walk into that situation and it's Oh, she as someone from Detroit, it's oh yeah, she her dad's famous. Her parents were famous. They went to school. Like there's a whole network.
• Writers Guild of America — Event · 1 mention · first at 26:22
  Like we have our own career careers now where we could just be listed as ourselves. I was nominated for a writer guild award. Went to the writer guild awards and like the caption of my photo said David Foster's daughter.
• Kazakhstan — Place · 2 mentions · first at 49:40
  And then there was a ton of Kazakhstanian kids which spoke they spoke Russian and they looked Asian and they had a lot of money and they would take limos from class to.
• Beverly Hills — Place · 2 mentions · first at 58:31
  Why on earth? Again, that shows it was so [ __ ] weird. I have, I'm going to see my older Jewish doctors in Beverly Hills and every one of them's talking my [ __ ] ear off about my wife's show. And I'm you're a.
• Paramount Lot — Place · 2 mentions · first at 1:09:40
  That still felt like a really big win to me. and I still felt like the person that's psyched to have the card to get on the Paramount lot. So, anytime I made something and it…
• Lake Tahoe — Place · 1 mention · first at 22:30
  And Aaron looked at me and I think I had like some like outburst or something and she looked at me. We were in Lake Tahoe and she goes, It's time.
• Hawaii — Place · 1 mention · first at 36:27
  This experience ever until two days ago and it's almost the same experience that you had. We went to our friend's wedding in Hawaii last week and I talked to my dad and he's…
• Santa Barbara — Place · 1 mention · first at 37:05
  Little and we never did a honeymoon, and then Kenny Loggins gave us their her house, their house in Santa Barbara to go for the weekend, and it was like our belated honeymoon…
• Canada — Place · 1 mention · first at 37:58
  And this is defense, he's Canadian.
• Saudi Arabia — Place · 1 mention · first at 49:25
  There were a ton of American kids whose dads typically worked at an oil company and they pay for the family to move to Saudi Arabia and then they pay for the kids to go to boarding school.
• Paris — Place · 1 mention · first at 55:52
  And I'm just trying to figure, I think I can whatever. And that's what I started doing. And I went to Paris.
• Wimbledon — Event · 1 mention · first at 57:36
  I hope you still have that contact cuz I stay there during Wimbledon and it is very pricey and I was a nice hotel. Well, the whole trip, mind you, again, these kids were so [ __ ] cute.
• Texas — Place · 1 mention · first at 1:36:03
• Aspen — Place · 1 mention · first at 31:48
  Nominated producer. He has a mansion in Malibu. [clears throat] You're taking trips to Aspen and [ __ ] with him, maybe.

Media & podcasts

• Nobody Wants This — Media · 4 mentions · first at 2:59
• Barely Famous — Media · 4 mentions · first at 1:10:07
• Armchair Expert — Media · 3 mentions · first at 26:46
  I think so many people are envious of how tight you guys are as siblings.
• Nicole — Character · 2 mentions · first at 1:42:05
  You want to see Nicole? Yeah. I want to see like maybe you have broken up the sister's wedding or marriage and Yeah.
• Adam — Character · 2 mentions · first at 1:38:33
  Is your actual relationship, your love for Simon and your respect for him. you see in that Adam Kristen couple, Joanna and Noah couple. so clearly and it's so it's it's you guys.
• Punked — Media · 1 mention · first at 41:42
  Famous, correct? Yes, we Yes. When we met with Ashen, I had been nine years trying to get punked yet.
• Frozen — Media · 1 mention · first at 1:26:10
  You can't get bigger than Frozen. The Good Place was enormous. when that show came out, we were in New York and it was probably had been out.
• The Good Place — Media · 1 mention · first at 1:26:13
  You can't get bigger than Frozen. The Good Place was enormous. when that show came out, we were in New York and it was probably had been out for maybe 3 or 4 weeks.
• Magnum P.I. — Character · 1 mention · first at 1:22:19
  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. we came to the Halloween party. He was Magnum PI.
• Joanna and Noah — Character · 1 mention · first at 1:38:33
  Is your actual relationship, your love for Simon and your respect for him. you see in that Adam Kristen couple, Joanna and Noah couple. so clearly and it's so it's it's you guys.

Sponsors

• YouTube Premium — Sponsor · 4 mentions · first at 3:07
  Premium. YouTube was already great but Premium supercharges it. If you like YouTube, you'll love Premium. Try YouTube Premium for 2 months free at youtube.com/premium.
• Allstate — Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at 28:21
  Cancel anytime. We are supported by Allstate. Checking All State first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking if your alarm is actually set before you go to bed. You could have.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Hi. Hello. Should we grab Sarah? How are you? Welcome. I decided to take the number one seat.

0:10 Yeah. Yeah. Smart. Smart. That's what I wanted for you. We're going to get into it.

0:15 We're going to establish you as number one as favorite sister. Favorite daughter.

0:19 Favorite daughter. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. All queued up. Tell us about it.

0:25 I think it's all equal. Yeah. It's all mediocre. Yeah. Yeah. No, the clips on the show looks really good.

0:32 That's very nice. Are we live? We're ABR, but we will cut. Oh, we don't. What does ABR mean?

0:37 Always be recording. You guys don't do video, right? They do. Or you do do video? I listen to you, sir.

0:43 We do, but just nobody watches them. I do. You're watching them? Okay. Yeah. Let's just start there cuz Monica has become recently very obsessed with you. She's having a parasocial relationship with you, too. And do you already know that? I know it, but she and I have taken it into um IRL.

1:00 Oh my goodness. Tell me more. But not but I just met Sarah for the first time yesterday, so we're pretty stunning, right? What a creature.

1:07 They're both stunning. Taller than you expected. Prettier. Yeah. You are taller. I mean, I knew you were tall. Like I've heard about that.

1:15 Heard about your heard the rumor that you're height precedes you. That's right. Um but tall people really in person

1:22 they pop get even taller. You're taller than I expected as well. Well, but I'm 5t tall. I have a tall um I mean I have a tall Yeah, I have a tall presence, but I'm actually only 5'6 and a half. So, I'm actually not really rocking that much height.

1:33 That must be above average, though. It is. It's above average. I think average nationally is like 53 or 5'4, right?

1:40 Yeah. So, you're you're quite a bit above. And how tall are you, Sarah? I don't know. I Aaron has two lights

1:45 and I have one. Like I just So, I need your audience to know, your viewers to know she has two lights.

1:50 We're going to let them know. We are letting them know. But when we go into the DI, we're going to increase the exposure on you cuz this whole thing gets run through.

1:59 Well, and your loyalties to me, let's be clear. Well, your history goes tricky. One one of you employs my my wife now, so that certainly complicates.

2:09 Wow, things are heating up quick. This is going to get Okay, it's going to get nasty.

2:14 It's going to get Sophia's choice. You guys should get into your history. It's a house. First, can we I want to hear more about Okay. So, when did you start listening to the [clears throat] world's first podcast? And did you tell them we almost did the exact same title? We were going to be

2:28 the world's last the 1 millionth podcast was going to be the name of our cuz we felt we were very early,

2:32 but we already felt very late. You already felt late at that point. Oh, yes. In 2018, you already had Chris Hardwick, you already had Marin, you already had Rogan. Like, you we felt late.

2:43 When you started, I literally was like, what's a podcast and why is Dad Shepard doing a podcast? You were sort of the first podcast

2:49 we were going to do the 1 million because I was embarrassed about being so late and I think you had a similar embarrassment. Right. So it's like you you try to make the joke first.

2:56 Exactly. We wanted to do something in the vein of nobody wants this. Nobody asked for this.

3:02 Nobody asked for this and there and it already existed and so this was like our fifth choice.

3:07 This episode is presented by YouTube Premium. YouTube was already great but Premium supercharges it. If you like YouTube, you'll love Premium. Try YouTube Premium for 2 months free at youtube.com/premium. Trial eligibility varies. Terms apply. Cancel anytime. Now, let's get into today's episode.

3:27 I kind of hate the name of our podcast. I love it. You don't like it? I just don't know if it it just doesn't feel like us. I kind of I agree.

3:37 Yeah, I kind of hate it. Could we change it? Should we launch a rebrand now? A real time rebrand. asked our audience about a rebrand cuz we thought we would switch it to Fatigue Sisters podcast cuz we're always tired and people didn't want it.

3:49 People don't like change so you don't want to throw that. Money, when did you what was your first episode? What was the context? Why?

3:55 Well, obviously I knew about Aaron and Sarah. Well, that's not obvious. From the Zeitgeist and also from the show, so I knew about you guys.

4:05 Oh, right. Of course. Of course. Because of that. Okay. No, but also from the Zeitgeist. Um, and then but I don't think I really knew about the podcast and I was just listening to one of my own pop culture podcasts and I think I was just like served it.

4:21 It just appeared in my ears. That's good for our marketing. It we need to pay for that. Yeah, I know. We need to pay that. And I just said to somebody, we got to start paying for some views and because you guys get shady or something. Guys, are you not aware of

4:36 calling or people being like, "Guys, get the bots. Do the things. Like, buy stuff. Like, do it."

4:41 I just heard I won't say the name, but [clears throat] it is a very popular podcast.

4:46 Way more popular than ours. I don't know if it's more popular than yours. Maybe not. We're going to need the name in a minute.

4:51 Is it? You didn't comment, but go ahead. Cut that. But Well, no, she didn't comment.

4:56 By the way, I don't want to Monica offers to cut things really quickly. Yeah, I did. You're too quick. I don't want people to feel comfortable.

5:03 But she's probably the reason we still have a show 9 years later. I am the one that does the cutting. So I get to

5:09 I would have been run out of town like 350 times. You always yell at me when I do.

5:14 Sarah always starts with someone goes, "By the way, by the way, we'll cut anything you don't like." And I was like, "Shut up, Sarah." Like, "Let her like say something she regrets." I mean, we get big views. Aaron is always looking for like the National Inquir.

5:24 I think it puts in people's heads before you even start talking, oh, I might say something that I would regret. And so it makes at least I think people a little bit more

5:35 like aware of what they're saying. Interesting. I have the opposite point of view which is like if I tell you like anything you regret tomorrow talking about it's gone.

5:44 Now you're not talking with this self-governing if you actually trust me uh and or you trust Monica cuz she said it. Um, I hope that then you're not governed and then you drive home and the opposite happens, which is like, "Oh, I talked about that thing I normally wouldn't have talked about, but I think that went kind of well and I think people receive it." Well, that's certainly more often the case for us.

6:03 Definitely. But also, I never offer it unless someone's starting to like we don't normally say it unless someone's like, "Uh, like you can tell they're thinking about maybe saying something." We're like, "Just say it's fine. We'll cut anything." Right?

6:15 But go back to who what you heard about some certain podcast. Somebody said to me, they go, you know that people only listen to an average of 4 minutes of each of her episodes.

6:25 Okay. And I was like, so it's all clips and these clip farms. And so there's this whole world, which I just recently learned about, which I didn't know. We're not over here like how can we, which maybe we all should be system.

6:38 Yeah. where it's like these agencies, which I'm looking to employ, that will that make me goose it goose the numbers

6:45 that make it look like millions of people are posting about your show when no one gives a [ __ ] about your show. It's just spotlight.

6:51 Okay, so I too am fascinated with it. I can swear to God, we have never done anything remotely like it. I've been so tempted. We have a threshold. There's a point where it would cost us a lot of money to not do that.

7:03 Your clips go deep. Like these clips, the video clips really create a lot of conversation from the show

7:10 on this one. Yeah. Well, that's that's lovely, but I of course in moments of panic are like I don't know should is there a farm? Right. And I'm shady, right? But ultimately I've never done anything right. [snorts]

7:21 Um and I do think it's going to come out. So I without saying which podcast, um

7:27 I can tell you Dr. Mike, do you guys know Dr. Mike? No. He's incredible. He's one of like the top 10 YouTubers. He's a the most gorgeous doctor you've ever seen. He's in New York City. He won sexiest doctor a bunch of times.

7:38 Who gives out sexiest [clears throat] doctor awards? It was one of those pop like pop sugary type.

7:43 Okay. Yeah. A very reputable source. Anyways, he was telling me a certain show who supposedly has millions of things.

7:50 He said, "I want you to look at what the average comment ratio is for a show with a million downloads.

7:56 And now I want you to look at this [snorts] person's comment section. There's not one comment on any of these episodes that supposedly have millions of dollars. And I went, "Oh, that's fascinating." And I'm so glad I sat it all out cuz I do think at some point there'll be some expose. I think some of them are a little suspicious.

8:15 Yeah, that's what we'll hire. We'll hire a journalist to look into this. Well, that's where we'll pay for it.

8:20 Yeah. Well, we need a little more integrity around all of it, right? That's how I'm feeling about like all these facelifts. I'm like, it's not fair. like just just tell us because then you make all of us who haven't done it feel like crap.

8:30 Okay, but Sarah, just tell us. Do you think this is because not to get deep so quickly,

8:36 but you're so gorgeous and you have been known for being so so gorgeous your whole life that you're like, go on, tell me more. Keep going.

8:46 But really, I get like I and I understand. What specifically are they saying about what?

8:52 It's the eye. No, let me guess. It's my eyes. No, but that like you are a natural beauty and people are paying and are able to recreate some

9:04 and if I were you, I might be like that is unfair. If you have these natural things and other people are can pay to just get them all of a sudden you're like I was born with it.

9:14 Yeah, exactly. And like you're born with other good things, so you have your good things and I have my good things and let's just like stay in our lanes. Is that possible?

9:23 I've never seen Monica this hard-hitting. I think it's the parasocial relationship. She's really going hard. She

9:29 wants to know the deeper layers of Sarah. No, I think aging is an interesting definitely

9:34 thing. And I think that yeah, you do kind of get to a point where you're like where you're looking at people who are older than you that are starting to look younger than you. You reach that point and you're like, what the [ __ ] Like do in order to like stay on this playing field, do I need to go now like get a face? Like

9:54 the clip farms, it's all the same thing. It's like what's going on? Everyone's cheating the system.

9:58 Everyone's which by the way I mean people are looking good. Of course people are not aging you guys.

10:03 Yeah. I think they're aging weird some some. Well, I think a more fascinating current thing is how many men are now doing it

10:11 and how how differently we feel about men's faces changing than we do about women's faces changing.

10:17 We should not be cutting their eyelids. I don't like it. Let me be clear. Men, if you cut your You didn't cut your eyelids, right?

10:23 No, I haven't. I might, though. Do not do men who cut their eyelids. I just think men looking a little weathered is handsome and women looking a little weathered is less socially acceptable. Yes. Coign on that observation. Yeah. Okay. Back to my parasocial relationship. Yeah.

10:42 So, I got served and um And you liked what you saw? I liked what I heard. I was like, "Oh,

10:49 these girls are fun. They're funny." Um and then something something turned into a new gear and it was so it's so embarrassing. It's so embarrassing. I can't believe I'm saying it.

11:02 Half of our fact checks are about you guys. This show has a fact check every episode, which is basically us doing what you guys do on your show. We just shoot the [ __ ]

11:10 right? And half of what Monica talks about is updates about you two that she's learned from the podcast the night before. And I'm like, this is lovely and I love them, but at some point our show has to be about our show,

11:20 right? Can't always be on our show. Monica, the first time you mentioned us, um

11:24 I wish our numbers were getting boosted from this. I mean, maybe they are. I would hope that they would. Sometimes I do have that power. But that you do have a lot of power because the first time you mentioned us, Montana, who runs our production company, who has been with us forever, she started as an assistant, was like, "Oh," she sent a group chat. She was like, "You guys just mentioned you guys."

11:39 Monica Monica just mentioned you guys. They're all powerful. Monica. Yeah. And it was like, it was a very big deal in the house. Yeah. It was a big deal. Uh,

11:49 so we appreciate you and and now you and I are friends. Did the show I was going to ask this much later, but did the wild success of Nobody Wants This up your numbers at all?

12:00 Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, not really. I mean, I think maybe a little bit, but not maybe like what you would think it would do.

12:06 I don't know. I don't fully pay attention to the numbers as much as this one does, but

12:10 someone's got it. It definitely changed our favorite daughter sales. Oh, yeah. It did.

12:14 Yeah. Which was an unexpected consequence. That's great. Uh, it was great. Yeah. I mean, it changed everything.

12:22 If you had to pick which I mean, I feel like I know the answer, but if you had to pick which one was a massive success, it would be Favorite Daughter. No,

12:29 which company? Yeah. Between the podcast, Favorite Daughter is a massive It's the Yeah,

12:36 the podcast is not really about The podcast is not that successful. No. Well, I was just going to say the podcast is sort of

12:44 It's just not I don't know. But relative to what? I mean, again, there's 10 million. There's like there's 9,900,000 podcasts that would [ __ ] cut off a toe to have your numbers guaranteed.

12:55 But I think the point is that for us, Favorite Daughter is a business. Like that is a business for us that we started as a business. The numbers are very important. The growth is very important. We have a financial partner. It is

13:08 absolutely profit focused. The podcast for us is a way for us to connect to people who um will watch the show, who will buy the clothes, but really just it's a place for us to it's sort of like this quiet undercurrent um underneath the businesses that we're working on. And it's not something we really look at as um a big stream of income or a business that's supposed to be huge.

13:31 Yeah. I think it's like community building around the other brands you already have.

13:35 Exactly. But it works because then people like you and so then they want to support you

13:40 and it's the only place to to know us because Aaron's basically not on social media. I'm not doing like lives or we're not in YouTube like we post when we want to post. We don't when we don't. It's a lot of like buy this at favorite blah, but we're not really

13:56 speaking to anybody in any channel of our lives except for the podcast. I want more solos. I want them to all be solos. I know. Everyone says that.

14:05 Oh, okay. Solos is just when it's them interview. Yeah. That's the part that's like very interesting.

14:12 Celebrities. It's interesting. Well, cuz Sarah's really weird with them. Sarah's very She's too nice. I have celebrities. She's too nice. She doesn't want She sits there and praises them the whole time. She never wants to kiss the whole time. I literally kiss their ass. I'm like their number one fan. Even if I can't even one thing they've ever been in.

14:28 The snooziest interview you've ever heard. I'm like, "What's your favorite?" We had Chris Jenner on and I was this is someone we've known since we were children, okay? And and I'm like, Erin, just like be cool. And we know her very well. I was trembling. I was like, Chris, like tell us like what's your favorite color? You know, you guys and then Aaron goes, all right, so when you guys are flying private, who pays?

14:50 Okay, there. And I literally, you're being rude. How dare you put her on the spot like that? Like Sarah, this could be a clip.

14:58 Let her let her answer. I was sweating like you cannot imagine. When you guys meet people, who do they think is the older sister?

15:07 Sometimes they do think that I'm the older sister. Mhm. Um but it's also like rude to be like you're older, right? Like I think people don't really do that.

15:14 Okay. But no, I mean we're 18. Yeah. 17 or 18 months difference. Yeah. So who gives a [ __ ] It's not like it's offensive one way or another.

15:23 You keep it youthful. He looks more immature. So I think people assume that I'm like the older, wiser sister.

15:28 Yeah. I was going to say you have more of a serious vibe. Yeah. That could read as older.

15:32 Yeah. I'll do like a side pony and crop top, you know. But I was delighted to learn today. Um cuz I think it could explain some similarities between you and I. Um you're a middle child. I think that's

15:42 a middle child. You're a middle child. I'm a middle child. Out of three. Mhm. Boys or girls?

15:46 Uh older brother, younger sister. But a pretty big gap between both as opposed to You're 18 months and then what's Jordan?

15:53 Jordan is three years younger than me, so five years younger than Sarah. Okay. Still pretty close.

15:57 Yeah. Yeah. I'm very very middle child. I take on the task of wanting slashforcing everyone to get along or be together.

16:09 The family sheriff. Sarah screamed at me once and said, "No one elected you sheriff, so get the [ __ ] off your soap box."

16:17 Okay. Sheriff is a word that Dax likes to throw around a lot as well. For both of us.

16:21 Yeah. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We got a lot of sheriff vibes here. too many sheriffs [clears throat] in the whole ecosystem over here. But,

16:28 okay, I'm going to get deep with you now. Okay, I think that that dynamic, which is clear.

16:36 Yeah. Um, and I and understandable may I feel like sometimes you're looking for Sarah to let you down, [gasps]

16:45 Monica. Sorry. And I also should we get into a like are you single? And also Sarah, you do fly first class. Okay.

16:55 So, I'm just going to even out the playing field here. I do. And not not I and I mean it for your sake. Like I think you have an expectation that maybe she can't [sighs and gasps]

17:08 fill. Yeah. And instead of just being like, "That's just her. That's just her. She's not going to do that."

17:15 Um it like hurts you. Yes. And then I try to like force her to do the thing that I wanted her to do. And

17:21 she might resent you for that. And then it's that's like a where have you been all of our lives?

17:25 I'm here. Right here. Same treatment to yourself is what my guess would be. Pretty brutal on yourself.

17:33 Yes. Totally. So it's like you can you can kind of only extend other people as much as you're extending yourself in some way. So it's like it might be a internal

17:41 of course. Yeah. Yeah. But interestingly, I I had an experience like I don't know a few months ago in Nashville where I tried to do it differently with Sarah. So, we had a work trip. We were opening our store in Nashville and [snorts] Simon was going to be there. We were bringing our daughter. Um Sarah was bringing her daughter. We had this like work thing on I don't know what it was like a Thursday. And I really wanted us to turn it into a weekend family trip where we go and we stay at a hotel on the weekend, spend the time there, bring all the kids, the cousins. Our dad was going to be there with his son who's the same age as like our kids. So, we were like going to turn it into a cute thing.

18:17 And I already like was ready for Sarah to go, I'm not doing that. I just want to go back home. I'm not doing it. Cuz sometimes it's like Sarah controls the cards because she is the no

18:29 and then it like stops. She has the veto. She has the veto and before I had a child, which is still kind of recent, two years, she had all the control cuz she had the kids and I had like nothing to bring to the table.

18:41 So then I really wanted to like hold tightly. But I called Sarah. I said, I found this really cute hotel and I was like felt myself like getting all like stressed about her saying no and I really want to see this thing. I already there's cottages and I looked them up and I think that you're going to like them and I and I I'm holding just two rooms and she was like, "I don't know, Aaron. And I don't know if I want to do that. Like I don't know. The place doesn't look that good. Like I She started doing her thing

19:04 and Simon had a little bit warned me of like just like let yourself like let her do what she's going to do. We can still have a nice time.

19:12 So I said, "Okay, Sarah, you know what? No pressure. You know, you have the link.

19:18 Whatever you want to do, that's what you're going to do." And I went ahead and I booked it for ourselves. The other family members wanted to do it. I was sad thinking about her daughter Josie not being able to be part of it, which is a big part of my wanting to control it.

19:30 Yeah. But I just was like, I'm letting it go. And guess what this [ __ ] did? She booked that place.

19:36 She got the hotel. She stayed all weekend. Showed up. Well, I didn't get the cottage. That was very expensive. I stayed in the main hotel, which actually ended up being great. I was like I was like, but I'm gonna have my space.

19:47 Sure. You're gonna do it the way you want to do it the way that I own my own terms. And she and and I had a little conversation with my husband where I was like he was like do you see how when you didn't put the pressure on she [clears throat] wanted to do it cuz she didn't feel that likeight being controlled

20:02 and ready to disappoint me. It's too stressful. Yeah. But I think you had a that's a really good observation that you have probably from listening to the podcast becoming closer with Aaron and just understanding humans and sibling dynamics and women and whatever. I do think this has been a constant theme for us that we have dealt with, which is it's normal when you're as close as with each [clears throat] other as as her and I are. Of course, for Aaron, she wants me to handle every situation this exact way that she would, right? This is human nature. The way with our parents or our other sister or a work situation, of course, she's like, "No, no, you need to you need to handle it the way I'm going to handle it." I'm like, "Bitch, we're two different people. We grew up in the same house, but we had totally different childhoods,

20:44 right? I have my own wounds. You have your own wounds. I have my own attachment style. You have your own attachment style. We're different. Like, and now that we've accepted that, I would say our relationship is in a much

20:55 better place. Yeah. I mean, that is good. She likes to [ __ ] on it more. Like, we did a podcast recently and she was like, "We have a very toxic relationship." And I was like, "Are you okay? You like us?" Like,

21:07 has a much higher threshold for like toxic energy. Sure. That's also probably a difference. Well, I can just move on quickly. Like I have a lot of I don't want to say patience is not the word because I don't have a lot of patience, but I have I do have grace for people. Like I really do. Like everyone in my life operates in a way that I never would.

21:26 Okay. Now is where I come in. This would explain your tolerance for addicts. Yeah. Well, one addict.

21:32 Only one. Did I date more than one? No, just the one. Okay. When we met, I was dating an addict. Okay. Yeah. So now let's talk about our Well, first of all, I want to applaud both of you because I think what's like you guys just took that observation so well.

21:43 Oh, they do because you don't know them, right? Like I think that's what gets tricky.

21:48 And I best friends. You guys are best friends. But because other people are in parasocial relationships with us as well, I will sometimes read comments that I'm like,

21:58 "Oh, that's none of your business to say about you don't like, right? I can get a little defensive if you think you understand something about our dynamic that we don't. I don't always take that. Well, I thought that was really impressive the way you guys

22:10 I knew that we're like in our growth era too. Like Aaron and I are not who we were even 5 years ago. Like we have done the hard work. I started therapy not until I was 40.

22:21 Wow. So like I was late to the party. Does that parallel a divorce? Is that what what drove you to therapy?

22:25 No, it was before No, it was during co and Aaron looked at me and I think I had had like some like outburst or something and she looked at me. We were in Lake Tahoe and she goes, "It's time."

22:34 I was like, "I'm begging you. I'll drive you." She goes, "It's really time." And I was like, "Oh my god."

22:38 Sarah, what are your outbursts look like? Will you have a proper tantrum? I'm rage.

22:42 You're rage. I'm rage. You'll scream and swear. No. I mean, like, I'm I'm a rage. Aaron's not

22:48 for this. Okay. Okay. I want to start with four and five. Mom and dad get divorced.

22:54 Four and five. Yeah. [clears throat] You really did your homework. Three. Yeah. Three to five. Yeah. He gets paid a lot. 23rd 82 February 5th 81 is a great memory too.

23:06 Um so four and five mom and dad get divorced. Where were you living when the divorce happened?

23:11 Malibu in Malibu. Yeah. And do you have a lot of memories of that period? I don't remember what I did yesterday but I do have a memory.

23:19 You do? Yeah. I do remember like I remember the doorway like I remember a few things like I remember the house like parts of the house like and but then you also question is it a memory or is it something our mom told us our mom used to say to us like I remember your dad saying I'm leaving and I remember me saying to your dad oh when are you coming back

23:39 right and him being like no I'm not like she thought he was just like I'm leaving I'm going to dinner I'm going here and that is how it so I can't remember if I if I saw that or if if it's just she told me and I've never done like MDMA but I've thought about it.

23:54 Yeah, you should. Um did you guys stay in the house or did you guys move to another house cuz that would be memorable.

24:00 We moved to Calabasas. He was in another relationship. It was very it was a very

24:06 There's nothing good about this divorce. You know, it was very bad for everyone

24:10 cuz I read something about you guys today. You both said it and and I am guilty of having thought it. So like I know you guys are the daughters of David Foster. Yeah,

24:18 I know. He has won 19 Grammys and had 45 nominations and [ __ ] I'm assuming he has insane amount of money, right?

24:28 Also, I love your dad. I've actually hung out with him and he's a [ __ ] Yeah. birthday party.

24:33 He really loves you guys. But I when I met you, you were Sarah. Sorry. Thank you.

24:40 For the listener. For the listener. When I met Sarah, I already knew your dad was David Foster or I knew that about you. And so, yeah, my assumption was like, oh yeah, this girl has probably $40 million in a trust fund. And that has been a kind of common thought about you guys.

24:56 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even like yesterday, I saw some thing about the show coming out and it was like

25:01 easy easy when your dad buys it for you. Like that's how it works. So, we're like we're always like, you know, first of all, like and we've talked about it so much about privilege and nepo babies and all this and but it is interesting how with us

25:16 our dad is really like a behind thescenes person. Our dad is not a superstar. He is not he's a legend.

25:23 You got to know music a bit to Yeah, you got to know music a bit to know who he is. But there are so many kids of really famous people who I feel like and who have done like

25:33 far less interesting things I think than we that that don't get it the same way that we get it. You know what I mean? Interesting.

25:39 You guys are both blonde and beautiful. It's it's not like no one's getting in line to feel bad for you guys. Yeah. No one's [ __ ] hot. You got to pay the tax.

25:49 No, but it's not even about feeling bad. more like for some reason there and maybe it's some one of those things where we are more hyperfocused on it than other people are because we're very comfortable with it today but sometimes we'll look at at celebrity children

26:03 who haven't really like done a had a big career of their own but people will write articles about them and refer to them by their name as opposed to the daughter of where we get daughter of a lot

26:15 and we feel like at some point haven't we sort of paid the price and like we have our own career careers now where we could just be listed as ourselves. I was nominated for a writer guild award. Went to the writer guild awards and like the caption of my photo said David Foster's daughter.

26:29 Yeah, that's insane. No. Did I get here kind of on my own at this point? There's like influencers who post pictures of like their buttholes and they're like daughters of someone and they but they don't refer to them as the daughter of whoever. I'm like all you do is post your butthole.

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29:02 I think part of it is is because not to age anyone, but if you were going to, there was an era of like Paris Hilton and

29:14 Kim, I guess, like other people who were sons and daughters of that had these careers in reality, TV, and were like known as that. And I think for some reason you guys,

29:26 some of them were even your stepson. Right. I mean, some of them were actually because that's when you guys were also like

29:33 anecdotally, this was my experience. I didn't know who Brody Jenner was. I saw there was a reality TV show. I only stopped and watched because he had a really sweet Chevel and I like cars, right? And I'm like, how's this young [ __ ] kid have this $200,000 Chevel?

29:46 Yeah. And like, so yeah, that kid is that. And I'm like, yeah, it's what I think it is.

29:52 It's not crazy to put you in that net even though it wasn't true. It was our obsession with not being thought of like that. So like so like when Brody and Brandon did a reality show with our dad which was we were like wanted nothing to do with it. We were so like we want to be taken seriously. We never want to be on reality TV. We this but it almost like if we had have just leaned in.

30:14 It's like you're paying the bill anyways so you might as well Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very true.

30:19 So true. So what was the childhood in Calabasas like? It was night. It was It was comfortable I assume. I mean, listen, we have it's not like comfortable financially always. You know, we were never struggling financially or anything. I think that it was more just a really fractured family dynamic. You know, we have a really good relationship with our parents today. We're really close with everybody. It's like

30:40 no one meant to [ __ ] things up as badly as it went. And I think that everyone has really tried to repair, which is so important,

30:49 especially our dad. He's really like, we have the best relation. We really want to repair this relationship. such a good person.

30:55 It just took so long for us to get there because, you know, he was in a relationship with someone that we didn't have a relationship with and like it was never going to be repaired while they were together.

31:05 So, it, you know, around 23 they broke up and we had an opportunity to repair things with our dad. Well, also if I I was spared the sight of my father raising other kids when he wasn't raising my brother and I, that would have I mean, I already was so judgmental of him, but if you would have added that log under the fire, I would have [ __ ] torched him, you know?

31:26 We went on Kate Hudson and Olly Hudson's podcast years ago and we talked about what it's like sort of watching your parent raise other kids

31:37 and have and live a very different life than we're living. So, we lived one life with our mom, which was like a very normal life. We were in like a normal house, but then our dad is this Grammy nominated producer. He has a mansion in Malibu. [clears throat]

31:48 You're taking trips to Aspen and [ __ ] with him, maybe. And we talked about that on the podcast, and the reaction was like, "Oh, boohoo. Really?

31:57 These girls complaining. There's a fact of life in America, and you just have to accept it." Which is like, if you have money, the compassion is off the table. And by the way, I'm [ __ ] guilty of it. There are many people that I the thing I always say is like if Jeff Bezos falls down a flight of stairs and he breaks his leg and I'm watching I'll be like yeah but when he stands up eventually he's going to have $200 billion like I do

32:20 not anymore not anymore right some people like of course you just ratchet up whoever's above you like I'm not doing it to anyone rel you know

32:28 I think it comes from a misconception you were raised to think money will solve all problems and it's not your fault what you do is let's take the money out of it This is just two. This is these are bluecollar families.

32:41 Two little girls that would love any little girl who watches peripherilally their other parent raising other it's going to hurt. So that was really and that really did shape I think a lot of the way that we operate in life and a lot of the you know relationships that we now have as adults and and all of those things. It did shape how we attach to other people.

33:06 Yeah. Yeah, but also you guys then have a [clears throat] level of forgiveness that I would say a lot of people probably don't if you've been able to repair all these relationships. That's like amazing.

33:16 Yeah. I was wondering about this rad zone that you and your dad were both single and cynical and you're like, "Oh, yeah." Like you were a team for a while. Like obviously what a rad

33:24 that's cute season of a relationship to have. Well, we've, you know, I think there was a point where our dad really wanted to repair things with us and he asked, "What can I do? What percent am I at? And what can I do to get to 100%."

33:41 And I just remember being like, "We can just be at 100%. I really would love to just be in a happy relationship with my parent, you know, where we're getting along."

33:51 And I I said, "Honestly, my only like trigger is just please don't minimize it." like it wasn't that bad, you know, but like if you could we could all own how bad it was, then let's all just move forward together. That's all I really need and want

34:04 and he's great about that. You know, he he's really worked on himself as well. Like his relationship with us is very important to him.

34:12 Yeah. There was a moment of for forgive me to the listeners, they've heard about this, but um so my my dad was dying of cancer and I had so much resentment against him for having left and so much judgment of how he lived and everything. I I couldn't have been more judgmental of this man. And um he's dying of cancer. And so I'm at home all the time taking him to treatment and and one time when I'm home, I go, "Hey, I want to um I want to drive around, take a picture of every house I lived in." Just I just wanted to do it. I'm not planning on this being anything important. I just want to go have a photo of every house I ever lived in. So we're kind of driving through all these different places I've lived and I only lived in one place with him or two maybe. And so we get to these apartments, these like welfare apartments my mom and my brother and I moved into when they when they got divorced. And we're about to pull out of

34:57 the parking lot place I took a picture and uh he just out of nowhere goes um he goes, [clears throat] "Oh [ __ ] man. Uh that intersection right there is like uh I remember your mom asked me to drop off a couch so you guys would have a couch." And I was driving through this intersection, that one right there, and I realized I was driving away from my life and everything I loved. And I started crying so bad I had to pull the truck over and I sat like right there for like a half hour. I couldn't I couldn't see. And I literally at I must have been 37 then, 38. I did not know he gave a [ __ ] ever before that moment. I did not think he I thought he drove away and never [ __ ] care. It was like party time

35:42 and just getting to hear that like, oh, oh, like that heals so much, you know, that it broke your heart to leave us. I just needed to hear that, right? To your point, Aaron.

35:52 Yeah. I don't need you to fix everything. I just need acknowledgement that that was really painful.

35:58 That was so sweet, Dad. It is so sweet. And but you know, you don't think that when you're the kid that was left. You just think, "Oh, they're all having a great time. There's new girlfriends."

36:06 The hardest stuff. Yeah. I mean on a by the way totally different income bracket same [ __ ]

36:11 when you look at your parents is like you know what who is it that says like look at your parents like they're 5 years old you know it makes you like [ __ ]

36:20 it's so crazy because I've never had this experience ever until two days ago and it's almost the same experience that you had. We went to our friend's wedding in Hawaii last week and and I talked to my dad and he's like, you know, are you how was it being away from Noah and my husband and I just hadn't left her, she's 2 years old, together for 4 days before

36:41 and we were kind of like everyone's bragging about how fun it is to be away from their kids. Like we we had a really hard time

36:47 and we didn't really like it and I kind of expected my dad to be like, "Oh, please. It's good for her. Get over it." And he goes he told me a story I'd never heard before. He goes, "You know, it's so crazy when your mom and I got married, cuz [snorts] she got they got married after we were already born." And he said, "You guys were little and we never did a honeymoon, and then Kenny Loggins gave us their her house, their house in Santa Barbara to go for the weekend, and it was like our belated honeymoon, and we were so excited to go and we finally got there and we left after one night cuz we missed you guys too much."

37:19 And I said, "Wait, like just mom did or you cuz all the stories that they ever tell, it's like he has to work. She's sad to leave us. He has to work." And I had never heard him say, he goes, "No, I was really hard for us. Like we both wanted to go home to you." And I swear to you, it like healed this little part of my heart where I was like,

37:38 I didn't know you felt that way about the Yeah. You just need to know they cared about you.

37:44 It made me so happy. He missed me as a one night. But you know what? I think when we were young, it was too hard for him. I mean, look, we all have real intimacy issues and like we had a dad who couldn't go there.

37:58 And this is defense, he's Canadian. That's a hindrance. That is true. I mean, look, people leave marriages all the time. You know, it happens. It's like, and sometimes it really is for the best. But the way that it happened that I think for him to go there with us would have just been too painful for him. Yeah.

38:15 But he also he also was he he he was with someone who wanted war. Yeah. And like if that person wants war, like you're going to get a war.

38:23 And you like to fight. Yeah. A little bit. I like to fight. Do you? Well, not as much anymore in my life.

38:28 Yeah. I don't get that vibe. I I really am in a different place in my life today than I used to be. I used to be really ready to fight. Now I'm like I'm like I get scared to get the juice going, you know, because it it doesn't really ever make me feel good about

38:45 I was going to say I think the realization you have as you get older and you're a fighter is oh I lose every fight I have even if I win. It's like I would have these [ __ ] showdowns at intersections with dudes and maybe I'd even get in a fight and then for like the next five hours like just the adrenaline dump and the cortisol like what I'm doing in my body to

39:03 get all crazy like that I'm just like oh I I'm going to I'm going to die really early winning these fights.

39:09 But did you fight or did you just hold grudges? Cuz to me those are different things. I think I was like ready to stand up for myself at any point

39:18 and I think that I've always had a bit of a um growing up in LA there's such a hierarchy with every room you walk into, right? Like you are immediately put into the category of how important you are, how attractive you are, how old you are, how useful you are to speak to, to not speak to if someone's looking over your shoulder.

39:36 It's just LA. I think it's definitely heightened. I think it's harder to detect status elsewhere. Yeah,

39:43 here I think there's a lot of indicators that help in that. Like I met you and I'm so fish out of water from that scene. Like I met you through Kate. I mean truly.

39:54 No, Kate met you through me. I knew you way before that. Are we talking about that?

39:59 Sure. I met you when you met Ashton. I met Ashton the day he came to town. 100%. That's true.

40:05 Yeah. Like when you and Kate Are we Did we talk about that? Yeah, of course. Oh, when you and Kate started dating, you and I fully knew each other. So, yeah. Yeah.

40:12 But what I'm saying is I walk into that situation and it's like, "Oh, she as someone from Detroit, it's like, oh yeah, she her dad's famous. Her parents were famous. They went to school." Like there's a whole network.

40:27 It's like 902 and0. Yes. In my mind, it's like, "Oh, all these people are Which is not accurate, but that's

40:33 talking about status being on display." Like, I got I walked in, I'm like, "Oh, yeah." And think clink clink clink clink. Like it's just very [ __ ] palpable. Was it intimidating [snorts]

40:43 or you didn't like it? He loved it. He wanted their approval. Well, I loved it. It's like all these ridiculously beautiful girls. Yeah. And I'm much different, I think, than all the other folks that are coming around. Maybe I'm wrong. Like, I'm I'm liking that I'm a fish out of water.

41:00 I don't know. I mean, I think like all of us, we have a perception of ourselves that's always so different than someone else. And I was not nearly as close to Kate at that time that Sarah was, but I feel like the general feeling around her dating you was like, "Oh, she's dating someone who's like cool and normal and a guy's guy and like funny and like not treating her with kit gloves the same way that maybe somebody else would." That's what I remember. There wasn't like a feeling of, "Wow, she picked up trailer trash al" along the way.

41:29 Like it wasn't like who pay for that? Wait, that wasn't what I felt. When I met you, you were fresh off the boat. When you started dating Kate, you were already famous,

41:39 correct? Yes, we Yes. When we met with Ashen, I had been nine years trying to get punked yet.

41:44 No, I was like, well, I was on punk cuz I met Ashton through Punked. I didn't know Ashton.

41:49 Okay. Punked like hadn't come out yet. You knew no one knew you. Exactly. And I was in this unbelievable honeymoon where I was like I had been here for 9 years in a one-bedroom apartment in San Trucker hat. You were always in a trucker hat.

42:00 I had no money, Sarah. That was the weirdest thing is to be famous and be broke. Like I would be at a bar and people knew me. I was like I couldn't buy a [ __ ] drink. But at any rate,

42:09 I don't want to go back to like I just want to like put a bow around which I'm sure we'll go back to it. But just with our our dad like we healed with our dad in a real way like 25 years ago. So we've had like a really good relationship with him for more time than you.

42:25 Yes. This isn't like a new thing where the family's healed. like we really did heal such a long time ago and it is so I always just want to like you know

42:34 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it comes across more negative than ever intended cuz that's what people will grab on to.

42:40 Yeah. Yeah. I'm ready to make one observation now. Okay. Just based on the things I've heard

42:46 not having the same parasocial relationship. But [snorts] I think the people you're answering to in your head, like you're spending a little too much time answering to people that certainly exist, those people are going to hate you and they want to hate you and it has nothing to do with you. I think this all the time. It's like something will come out and everyone's against me and it's generally related to Kristen.

43:08 And I go I have to remind myself like no, no, those that group of people already hated my guts and now they had something which is great. And then the people that love me, they love me and that same thing they like.

43:19 And it's just like there are people dedicated to hating you. Oh no. A lot of people hate us.

43:24 Well, and and that's it's not related to anything material. There's nothing actually to think about.

43:30 Yeah. No one actually [ __ ] knows us. But it's also they don't hate you. They just want to hate.

43:35 It's like they just want to hate anything. And so if you're there, I don't really feel like we get that much hate personally.

43:41 No, I don't. I don't think you do. I don't really think we're like the [clears throat] top of the list of hated people.

43:45 I agree. I think probably when you were younger, there was maybe probably more of it, but but to your earlier point, it's like everyone's done a lot of stuff. When I look at your guys's history together, the main thing I will say about you guys, which is obvious on paper, you guys are [ __ ] hustlers. You're such hustlers, dude. You guys have done every [ __ ] thing that could have been done by the two of you. You're gangsters. That's that.

44:10 Very nice. Yeah. So, you know, whatever. It's important to remember these things like there's no getting those people back. There's no doing the right thing. There's no phrasing something perfectly for them. Like these certain people [ __ ] hate your guts and they're going to no matter if you save a school bus full of people, they go, "Of course she could. Her dad said Foster and that's that."

44:30 We always say that. Even with like the Nobel Peace Prize for coming up with the cure for Alzheimer's, they'd be like David Foster's daughter cure to all with all the money they just lived

44:41 with all that money. I do think I do think though, Dax, you are on to something a little bit with you, Sarah, because I do think you like even on the podcast, you are often like, "Oh, the I think the audience thinks this is boring." Like you're you're you're always thinking about the risk of I'm very Yeah.

44:57 And I'm like, who? No. First of all, no one thinks this is boring. And then you calling it out actually is like, is it? No, it's not. Like it kind of like makes you feel like you're bored. Why am I listening to this? Like

45:11 am I too easily entertained? Oh my god. But this is the same reason why like I don't have parties for myself. If I have had a party for myself, I hide in the bathroom because all I can think about is I have inconvenienced people to be here for me. It's all connected. But I'm guessing some of that comes from again now I have a stereotype and it's probably really really incomplete and wrong. But I do think you probably guys grew up probably in a pretty competitive environment as far as like this

45:36 but not with each other. Well, I don't think about each other. Never been competitive with each other.

45:40 The thing you already talked about which is like it is a town where it's like everyone kind of knows what everyone's parents do and how relevant everyone is.

45:47 No, your audience will throw up. I thought like my best friend's parents were Kurt Russell and Goldiehan. I thought my dad was a loser. Right. Right. Yeah. Snakekins versus a musician.

45:57 And like at Aaron's school, she went to the Malibu public school. So for Aaron, Aaron was like, I'm, you know, she was like the queen bee. I went to Crossroads where everyone's parent was like a A-list. My dad

46:08 Academy Award winner. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, oh, you know, which is [ __ ] crazy.

46:13 It's crazy. Yeah. Drop you at any other high school and you're like you're struting around.

46:17 Yeah. How did Aaron, you end up at the public school and Sarah end up at Crossroads? Sarah was um she was academically thriving as a kid and she was very um like on a path that was very like straight and clear and she did well in school and she did well with like friends and I like couldn't get through the third grade or the fourth grade or the it was like all very challenging for me so I kept like moving around different schools to see if like what would fit and um she went to Switzerland

46:47 which one had a lower enough yes that that was a question I had. How'd you end up in Switzerland in a boarding school?

46:54 I was like a really unhappy teenager and I was like just um I really didn't feel like I was growing up in the right place,

47:05 right? I was like I don't belong here. Like I don't want to be in Malibu. I don't want to go to the beach every weekend. I don't want to talk about the things you guys are talking about. I wanted to be like emo. I was like trying to be

47:16 I wanted to like listen to like Tori Amos and like put black eyeliner on and like I wanted to be lighter.

47:22 You wanted to declare you're not really the whole time. Yes. Yeah. And I wanted to grab on to something a little bit meteor and I couldn't get it

47:31 and I felt like um it was it was tricky being in a family that was super visible when I was going to public school because

47:40 which I was mostly in only public school except for boarding school. I mean maybe in sixth grade. Um

47:45 no you weren't you weren't in public school except for one year of your education. So it was it was a to it was like such a shining light on what where I was coming from and

47:54 and there was a lot of um like [clears throat] negative attention for a lifestyle that I didn't have as much access to as maybe they thought I did because

48:02 like I didn't live in the house that they were telling talking about. You know they'd go to school and talk about like oh the raging party at the Fosters. Aaron's like I didn't I wasn't there. I wasn't invited cuz I don't live there.

48:13 Yeah. So, it was just sort of like a little bit of a I just wanted to escape it and I was just not happy. I just didn't really like myself. It wasn't working for me

48:23 and so I just sort of thought what's like the farthest place I could think of to go and I found this place in Switzerland.

48:31 You applied by yourself? Yeah, I applied by myself and I was um Well, I I went to like Colum Mchuan. You don't know that. Sorry. You grew up Okay. So, Colin Mchuan's like a like a summer school to help you graduate because you like can't get through school, right?

48:46 And then I went to a school in Santa Monica that's essentially meant to like pay your way through the rest of high school cuz you like can't um pass the grade.

48:55 So, I was like really like couldn't figure it out. Do you think you had a learning disability?

48:59 I like really wanted to. Yeah, sure. Sure. You wanted some explanation. I would have loved for that to be the excuse,

49:05 but unfortunately when I went to Switzerland, I got straight A's. Oh, wow. at like an This was an elite boarding school. Yeah, it was a hard school.

49:13 Yeah. What were your classmates like? Were they like um were there oligarch kids there? Were there like what was the vibe?

49:19 Yeah. There were um a ton of American kids whose dads typically worked at an oil company and they pay for the family to move to Saudi Arabia and then they pay for the kids to go to boarding school.

49:30 I got it. They weren't super rich kids. Yeah. Um, more kind of a little bit blue collar families who then had moved to the Middle East and that company pays for them to go.

49:40 And then there was a ton of Kazakhstanian kids which spoke they spoke Russian and they looked Asian and they had a lot of money

49:47 and they would take limos from class to class. No. No. No. So I certainly wasn't like the rich kid there.

49:53 Did anyone even people probably didn't even think you were cared about any No. Because I was from LA and like a Hollywood family and they thought that was interesting. You were Sarah at this school.

50:02 Yeah, exactly. I just Sarah overnight except she had like an eyebrow ring and like black hair. So, I'm not really Sarah.

50:12 It was my first exposure to a community where the hottest person wasn't the most popular person. Um, the person who was the most interesting was the most popular. person who talked about

50:25 who spoke other languages and had traveled and had like aspirations reason and Malibu really just it served me none of that. It just gave me the flattest view of the world and I just felt like

50:39 I was so not stimulated by it and not appreciated. I didn't like my you know like I went to this school and I felt like I like met myself for the first time and it was cool and then it was cool to do well in school

50:49 because people cared about their future and I wanted to care about my future. How many years did you go there?

50:54 This is the part where I'm not proud. I only went for the one year. That's okay because I got my heart broken.

51:00 Oh, by a boy there. By a boy. Kazakstian. I wish even he was from Chattanooga, Tennessee.

51:06 Oh, they'll get you. Yeah. Took my virginity and broke my heart. And so I had to swear off the whole country.

51:12 Great place to lose your virginity though in the Alps. It was like a time castle. It was great. I was probably a little bit,

51:21 but it still did the thing I needed it to do, which was like open my mind up to

51:27 I can be this different person and my life could be bigger and um and so I think it definitely set me on a better self-esteem journey for sure.

51:36 Yeah. Yeah. Ultimately, you guys both out of high school start acting. Yeah. Yeah. What informs that decision? different reasons or I mean to me it would seem like just a no-brainer. Everyone probably you're friends with is also doing it.

51:50 It was for me it was kind of the lowhanging fruit like available to you. No, but you were like

51:55 you were like doing classes and you I was trying for sure but I definitely felt like it was an easy next step.

52:04 Again, it'd be me going to work for the automotive industry which I did that you that's what you do in Detroit. Yeah. You both had by any other measure if you moved here like tons of success. Yes. You were in a million TV shows. You were the [ __ ] I remember you being the star of the Big

52:21 Much bigger actor. Yeah. But like I did not even in high school when Kate is like starring in movies. I just genuinely thought that was so cool. There was no part of me, I swear to God, where I was like, "Oh, I want to be famous. I want to be an actress." I didn't get that until later. I thought

52:35 it was like I I felt that much later. Yeah. No, but I did. But during high school, I I didn't feel it.

52:41 What did you think you were going to do? And why aren't either of you musical? Or are you?

52:45 Good question. I mean, Erin's husband like lies to her and tells her she has a good voice. She does not. I mean, no, it is good. It's good, but it's not like a professional service.

52:55 Yeah. She's good at karaoke. It just skipped us. Okay. And neither of you played piano or you weren't like none of that was happening. Okay.

53:02 But also, maybe were you like, I don't want to do that. like, well, I had this experience when I was in fifth grade. I was I took piano lessons and and you know, we always had heard stories about our dad playing piano when he was like four years old. He's playing like, you know, Beethoven and so I was like taking lessons and I kept I felt like this is not really clicking for me, but maybe there's like something that's going to come through me. You know, my hands are just going to like touch the keys and it's going to like

53:27 that's what I would do. You just have to open up your chakra enough to let the energy pass through.

53:33 You don't need any practice. you needed like a spiritual awakening like you know when like the pianos play themselves you know I sort of did believe that that might happen and then I had um a recital one recital and my dad came and I played and I didn't really mess up so I was like he's going to be pretty impressed and then afterwards he came up and he was like you don't have it you can quit oh and I was like oh okay it was a really freeing moment and I really genuinely appreciate this about him because what he said was this is not your thing. This is my thing and you do not have to do this to get my attention.

54:08 Let me liberate you from this. Yes. Cuz he would tell he told us and he brought this up I think that day unless I'm making this up but he used to tell us a story. Our grandma would tell us a story about how our dad broke his hand and they were like you cannot play piano for 6 weeks cuz he broke his plan playing baseball and he would like sneak out of his room and he couldn't stop playing piano and the hairline fracture was growing up his arm and the cast is getting higher up and it's like all the way to his shoulder.

54:31 story. It feels like a grandma for sure. But he said to me like do the thing you would do through a broken hand.

54:39 That's a great lesson. Go do that thing. And the truth is I I wanted to go be in like a play at school. And so I I didn't ever feel pressure. None of us did that. We had to be

54:50 They didn't put pressure or anything actually. Like I put way more pressure on my kids.

54:54 Yeah. I'm like already at 14. I'm like who are you going to be? What are you gonna be? What are you like? What are we going to Our parents? Our parents didn't even take us like tour colleges.

55:03 They were kind of just like figure it out. Like it's weird. Like Yeah. They really They really didn't.

55:08 Back to what were you going to do? Did you I was in a super toxic relationship and I just couldn't even fathom going to college. I was like, I can't go to college because then this person will cheat on me. So, how like this is this is like what do you mean? Like it was the most toxic freaking situation ever. But there was this little issue where our parents were very clear like you don't go to college. You good luck. It's not like you're going to have a credit card to go live this life and have

55:41 whatever. So I I I literally was like, well, I guess people have always told me I could model.

55:47 Maybe I could try that. And I'm just trying to figure, you know, I think I can whatever. And that's what I started doing. And I went to Paris.

55:54 Oh, great. Went to Paris for a month and then your mom Rebecca was a model, right?

55:58 She was Our mom was never a model. She was They call her They say this on the internet.

56:02 Yeah, that's what I read. I think a little bit in her 20s in New York or something. She was a flight attendant for America.

56:09 That was a hot gig. That's like where the models really were. Yeah. Kristen and I went to Maybe she has told you the story. This is the wildest story. And I need to be incredibly clear on the fact that this was before the person had decreed Sharia law in Brunai. So let's this is pre Sharia law.

56:26 Okay. I got invited to the Sultan of Brunai's children's birthday party because the there was two boys and they were a fan of one of my movie and Kristen and I were dating for maybe six months. I get this email. It's the weirdest invitation ever. And I say to her, I've been invited to the Sultan Bernice children's birthday party in England. and you know it's like airfare and all this stuff. I said I feel like we there's no way we can miss this is so bizarre. We have to go see this, right? And she's like, "Yeah, okay." I didn't know where Brunai was. I I hear salt and I think Middle East. Brunai is an island next to the Philippines. So the kids arrive. There's five of them and all these adopted children. We come to find out

57:07 their mom, these group of five kids, was the flight attendant when he flew to London. like

57:16 they fell in love on this flight from Granada to London. They landed and they went to the Dorscher Hotel and stayed there.

57:24 He then married her and on their anniversary he bought her the Dorsches Hotel. That's so sweet. Wait,

57:31 it's kind of sweetable. But anyways, yes, he fell in love with the flight attendant on the flight.

57:36 I hope you still have that contact cuz I stay there during Wimbledon and it is very pricey and I was a nice hotel. Well, the whole trip, mind you, again, these kids were so [ __ ] cute. There's two girls, three boys. Um, they all got to invite whoever they wanted. That was so funny just to witness what they were at the kids table from like without a panel

57:54 with like Big Bird. Yeah, I was bigger. I was the big bird. It's like the Richard Prior movie where that movie

58:03 the toy. Yes, I was the toy. You were the toy. And I loved it. It was great. There was archery and hot air balloon rides. It was It was spectacular. We had so much fun. And then we fell in love with these kids and they said, "You've got to come to Brunai for my father's birthday. It's the whole month of August.

58:18 The whole country celebrates. You guys have got to come to that." And we're like, "Yeah, based on this trip we just took, we're in. Like we'll go to Brunai in August for this party." And then like we got home and then two months later he decreed Sharia law and they start boycotting the h the Beverly Hills Hotel which he also. I remember that.

58:35 And we were like, "Fuck, we can't go to this party now." Yeah. That is so funny. It's the weirdest.

58:41 Hollywood is so funny. It is. One day you think you're going to bay to a king's birthday and the next day you got to protest it.

58:48 Oh god. Okay. So you the modeling led to the acting for you Sarah. Yeah. This wasn't like some burning desire in me. I wasn't trying to be a thespian. Like I wasn't that good. I didn't work that hard. I really just [ __ ] it all up. Like I had so many amazing

59:02 opportunities and I just didn't I just didn't No. the world was like begging to make her a star and she like wouldn't show up to the auditions really half in.

59:11 So you were kind of self-sabotaging. Self-sabotaging but also just like an entitlement that I just should have. It was just this entitlement that was so unattractive. Like honestly like I look back and I'm like how unattractive.

59:26 But don't you think maybe deep down it was cuz you were afraid of getting rejected?

59:30 Of course that you weren't going to be good at it. Of course. I mean, listen, I did it, you know, it was the modeling and then I was hosting a show on MTV. You know, it was this like thing that you did in the late 90s, early 2000s, right?

59:42 It just kept progressing to other rungs of the ladder. Yeah. And I took it for granted and I didn't I didn't treat it with the respect it deserved to be treated. And and and and life doesn't work like that. Life doesn't life doesn't allow that for for too long. Like you eventually get,

1:00:00 you know, kicked back. You're right. There's a moment it can work. Yeah. And even when people get, you know, been out of shape about nepotism, I'll always say like it is true you'll get a shot more than another person will, but it's a meritocracy. They will not keep hiring you. Like you'll get an unfair shot,

1:00:18 but then beyond that, there's really no Aaron's next script could be really [ __ ] bad. And if it's really I mean, it wouldn't be, but if it was really bad,

1:00:25 that'll be the end of the line. That's not what I meant. I meant like she could write her next script and if it's bad, no one's going to be like, "But let's make it." because her dad has a bunch of Grammys.

1:00:34 Yeah. Or even that she's had an incredible hit under her belt that nothing matters. It's

1:00:39 in this business. I mean, yes, work does have to speak for itself. But I can argue another thing against the Nepo argument is simply this. Like our children will have an advantage. Two daughters. They certainly will get an agent easier than I got an agent.

1:00:52 Yeah. But that's not even the nepotism benefit. I'm on a walk with Delta when she's 5 years old in this neighborhood. She makes a joke. I laugh. Like 20 seconds later, she makes the second joke, the same joke a second time. I don't laugh. And she at 5 years old goes, "I went to the well too many times, didn't I?"

1:01:12 No. And I go, "Yeah, you went to the well too many times." Like my 5-year-old already knows about comedy and about going to the well too much. And it's like, that's the advantage they're going to have when they arrive. They'll have this knowledge that is real.

1:01:25 But also, when you know you're not going to be homeless. Yes. That the safety net is real. Like when you go to bed every night knowing like I'm going to be fed. I'm going to have a roof over my head. There is a sense of freedom with that. Definitely that if you don't envy.

1:01:40 Yes. That if you don't have that it leads to angst and stress that that then you smell crack in your onebedroom apartment.

1:01:48 Also though also the benefit is that you saw it work out for people. Like that's a huge benefit that like you grew up where your dad is a legend. Just the fact that that happened is tells you something.

1:02:03 So you're around a lot of successful people who are self-made and they are good at what they do and they teach you things and they inform

1:02:11 the conversation in the room and you are exposed to like a level of of entertainment people and interesting conversations that heighten your ability to be in these rooms.

1:02:23 You're educated. You get educated. You're not a fish out of water. It is a huge advantage if you have a general with a studio network executive.

1:02:32 I was much more relaxed in that room than somebody else might have been. And that helps you. It is an advantage.

1:02:37 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. But all that being said, Hollywood said no to me as an actress. All my connections. All my connections. And with all eventually talking connections, I knew everybody. When I was everyone, every executive, every head of studio, every movie star, I knew everybody. And Hollywood said no to me.

1:03:12 Your classmates now running Warner Brothers for crying out loud. Yeah. Jessie. Jesse. My best friend's dad was Ron Meyer. Ran Universal. He never was like, "Let me put you inside." This was my best friend's dad who I was with every weekend. He did not put me in a film. Do you know what I'm saying? It just it's like it doesn't the illusion is not actually what it is. Right.

1:03:32 Now you're a business woman and you were supposed to be that Well, that was kind of my question. I was going to ask how each of you decide, okay, we're leaving that pursuit because again, Aaron, I know you're [ __ ] on it, but you're on a ton of [ __ ] TV shows.

1:03:47 No, she was. I mean, no, she was one episode. Yeah, I was a lot of them. She was I would have you were 911. I was dead hooker.

1:03:55 Oh, okay. Yeah. Great. I was a corpse. I was like a crackhead in like a, you know, Halfway Home.

1:04:01 But that's a hard role. No, she had no lines. Oh, okay. You're just stumbling. No, I did. I did. I had lines. I had

1:04:06 Listen, you had more you had more TV credits than Monica had or I had at that age.

1:04:11 Well, thank you. Well, I I definitely felt like um I wasn't living up to my full potential.

1:04:17 Yes. I just So, that's what I'm curious about. When when is the moment that you go like, "Okay, we're on the wrong path."

1:04:24 It was gradual. And then um and then I started feeling this I had like a writing bug as a kid, but it was like bad poetry.

1:04:33 Eyebrow rang, goth, bad poetry. Yes, exactly. It all lines up. We already knew.

1:04:37 Yeah, it lines up perfectly. Um and then I wasn't feeling like I was doing great in my 20s with my acting stuff. And then um I started a blog

1:04:47 when blogs were relevant. I don't know what this is. 2010 2008. I don't know what

1:04:53 you didn't have to name it the world's first blog. You were early enough. I was early. I was like right in the zone.

1:04:59 And it was called totally confident and completelysecure.com. Oh, okay. And it was just anything random, nothing. Sometimes I would write random scenes that were in my head. Sometimes I would write about like a weird date that I had been on. And it unlocked something in my life where it wasn't like it was way before things. No, things went viral at the time. It didn't go viral, but it would get sent around and someone would mention it to me and I'd be like, "Wait a second. Oh, you thought that was funny or you thought that was interesting."

1:05:27 And and it it really opened my brain up to this idea that that was really much more my thing.

1:05:34 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then my girlfriend Sophia Rossi started Hello Giggles and I started writing on Hello Giggles. Well, yet this is Monica saying, and I love it. Uh, which is like love who loves you back.

1:05:45 Love the thing that loves you. Love the thing that loves you back. Acting wasn't loving me back,

1:05:49 right? I wasn't loving it. I didn't, you know, I I I didn't have a process. I was like, this I'm faking this a little bit. You can feel when you're pushing up against it. It wasn't. And then the writing was like

1:06:00 really flowing for me. It just felt really me. You always talk about red lights and green lights.

1:06:04 Yes. I was all red lights with acting and then writing was all green lights. It just kind of made sense. Red lights, green lights. Yeah, that's his book, right?

1:06:11 That's his book. So, I stole it before you invented it. She's been saying it for years.

1:06:15 Okay, we might have a loss on their hand. I bet I can I bet I can guess what year she started using it

1:06:23 cuz the book has been for years. Listen to the pod. Oh my god. To be clear, I'm saying I probably stole it from saying he probably stole it from you.

1:06:34 I am too. I'm doubling down. Foster sisters. I was just listening to your show. God was red. What is it? Red Lobster.

1:06:42 That's really good. Thank you. Yeah, Dax. Mr. Dax. Um, okay. So then I basically I'm writing for Hello Giggles. I'm writing for Daily Candy. Does anyone remember that?

1:06:51 Oh, yeah. Daily Candy. Yes. You're also working at Free People, which I'm sure the audience would, you know, love to like whatever. She was working at a clothing store called Free People like 27 years old where like her friends would come in, her peers would come in and be like, "Get me a size for me."

1:07:10 We were we we did have a different like point of view on these things. Like Sarah was never going to stoop to working at Free People.

1:07:15 No, but I did J C Penney cataloges where I modeled bras. Honestly, they were hot. They were in black and white. They were for the newspaper.

1:07:20 So, yeah. So, I was then I uh that gave me the writing bug and I wasn't making any money at it because you don't make money on like the internet stuff.

1:07:28 But you get a staff writing position on uh Ryan Murphy show. Yes. Well, so what happened was I Sophia introduced me to Olly Ops who was at Three Arts and which was like, you know, this pinnacle of like where you want to be as a comedy writer. Um, and he wanted to represent me, which was huge. And I'd never written a script before.

1:07:47 And so he said, you know, well, let's you need to write a script and I'll teach you how. Wow.

1:07:52 And we came up with this idea. I was dating a a girl at the time. This is like this random one year of my life where I was a lesbian.

1:07:58 A DJ. And she was a DJ. Very popular. We have had her brother on the show, friend of the pod. Just want to say

1:08:05 friend of the pod. So I wrote [snorts] this script called Lesie. You're a big converter. I'm really Now, now I see the pattern. What's my conver? Oh, yeah.

1:08:13 Yeah. You're like a You're someone that'll just like, "Yeah, here we go." I think you're someone that tries out a lot of things.

1:08:20 Yeah. Maybe. I wish I was more like that. It's good. Yeah. Anyway, I write the script and um first script I ever wrote and uh Olly, I have to give him so much credit cuz he really taught me. Like I'd send him 10 pages and he'd be like, "Girl, that's not a joke. That's like you put it in the description, you put in the lines and the dialogue and show me where an act break was." I I didn't know any of it. Yeah.

1:08:49 And I had never experienced this in my acting life ever. I never I never felt like I got the big call, you know, like like no one ever was like, I see something in you.

1:08:59 And this was the first time I ever had that experience. Beyond that, your reaction to these meetings is going to be so different than even if you'd gotten those calls as an actor. Oh, 100%.

1:09:09 But the feeling you have going there is a different thing. Oh, yeah. Cuz I wasn't faking it. Like this was really me. No one can do this for me. I can't phone it in.

1:09:18 It's like it it was the most vulnerable and the most honest and the most myself. And it really shifted even who I was out in the world and how I interacted with people because I was being more myself. Got a staff writing job.

1:09:31 That's a big job. That's what a writer in Hollywood's dying to get. and Ryan loved her.

1:09:36 I couldn't believe when I would drive on the lot. I was just like, "This is it." It was on the Paramount lot.

1:09:42 Yeah, it's a good lot. Um, you would call me every day. You'd be like, she would like call me every day driving on be like, "This is crazy." And then I had I have a fob to get on.

1:09:52 I like wanted my friends to see my little my little ID card in my car. Sorry, I just have to go to work tomorrow. That's my thing.

1:09:59 I was really proud of myself. It was really, it felt I mean I was very low on the staff, you know, but um but it was very cool.

1:10:06 It was really cool. And when did you guys do Barely Famous? Was that after that writer room?

1:10:13 Um I took out a pilot to try to develop and I couldn't sell it. And then at the time my my managers at Three Arts said, "It's so funny. We have all these clients who are trying to get reality shows

1:10:25 and we keep getting calls from networks seeing if you guys will do a reality show, but you won't do one.

1:10:31 And we kind of all looked at each other and we're like, there's something here. There's something funny about two girls who

1:10:38 are surrounded by reality TV and they refuse to do it. So, they film a reality show about how they won't do a reality show. Like, let's write a scripted show.

1:10:46 Spinal tap, like a curb style show. And that's how Barely Famous came together. And it was certainly my way in as a comedy writer trying to like wedge this thing in.

1:11:00 Um, and it really shifted a lot for us, but it was hard also because we ended up selling it to VH1 that really did only have reality TV. They didn't have comedies really.

1:11:12 Um, and so it was hard for us to maintain the kind of show we were trying to create.

1:11:18 It was ahead of its time. Yeah, it was very funny. It was really fun. When did you guys start um Favorite Daughter? Barely Famous got cancelled in like 2017 something 2016

1:11:32 which was devastating of course right because all of a sudden people started taking us seriously as like comedic actresses right like all of a sudden it was this taste of what it could be

1:11:41 you know which we' never really experienced like I was literally a failed actress she was a right writing all those things retired actor

1:11:49 yeah and then all of a sudden we would walk into rooms and we were like doing the Hollywood Reporter and on covers of people were like, "Holy [ __ ] this is what it feels like for people to respect you."

1:12:00 There's also another level of pride when you've created it. You're not just like, "You've been cast. The showroom is a genius. You're a lucky recipient." Like, it's a very

1:12:08 pride. No, like Bob Iger came up to us at an event was like, I love the show. And I was like, I will die.

1:12:12 Yeah. And it's the drug. It's like you're like, I need this. Like, pump this through my veins. It feels so good.

1:12:20 Um, and you're like And then you start attaching your self worth to that. Oh god. Yeah. And then it gets canled and I was like a really hard time.

1:12:26 I was like you guys I I'm gonna die. No. I was like what do I have now? I was like because now you don't want to go audition for things because now you're like no no no I'm only in things that we create and write and cast ourselves and you can't just go do that. That's like it was like lightning in a bottle really that we had sort of cracked the code in the show. And so I was like depressed. I mean not actually but I was really it was really

1:12:49 she kind of just couldn't accept it. Yeah. I just kept wanting to Are you sure?

1:12:54 Take it somewhere else. You really want to take it somewhere else? No. Like, can we like for sure? Like, who do I know? Like, no, girl. It's canled. Um, nobody No, nobody wants it.

1:13:04 Nobody wants this. No, we shopped it to everyone. Nobody. But it was so frustrating because everywhere we'd go, people like that show is genius. I'm like, but like I just couldn't. And you were confused understand what I was hearing. But then it was like really low rating. Anyways,

1:13:22 Sarah likes using Delta as well. Oh, I love Delta. Delta Delta. Oh, she sometimes criticizes criticize criticiz. Yeah. When when he gets a new word, he just says it nonstop.

1:13:42 I feel like she like heard someone on a panel say it and now she's like using it all the time and I'm like, "Okay, new word alert." There's Terrairma is another one I cut.

1:13:50 That's the one I'm currently on. You're saying it's solid. What is a terapirma?

1:13:53 On solid land. Well, yeah. On solid ground. No, no. The one that you hate that I'm using is primmaacia.

1:13:58 That one too. It's just that primaacia. On face value. It's like a legal term like on primmaaccia. Face value. Like what is should be obvious.

1:14:07 Extra hard cuz I was there when he first heard it. Which one? Primmaacia. No, I've known primmaacia for 20 years. Der [clears throat] said it and then you

1:14:16 Well, it might have infected me, but yes, but I did I did learn primmaaccia in college.

1:14:21 I mean, it's a beautiful word if you can put it in. I think it's a terrible word. Like Delta is so chic. When I say Delta, I know it's his daughter's name.

1:14:29 I know, but people are like respect me. There's just something out prima or terrairma.

1:14:35 Wait, I'm going to go with primaascia. And people are like, what? Like it sounds like

1:14:39 they're going to think you're talking about your face. Sounds like a procedure.

1:14:44 I can't wait to hear. We interview a lot of experts. I need to get the short the the short hand with

1:14:50 Did you guys ever do solo? It's just the two of you or your only guests. Well, every episode has an hourlong fact check, which is just us shooting the [ __ ]

1:14:56 Yeah. Every single checking the episode. Yeah. I mean, I've obviously listened to the podcast, but

1:15:00 Well, this is what's clear is I have a crazy parasocial relationship with when I met Aaron, I did feel like there was a huge imbalance.

1:15:08 She's like, "Oh, [clears throat] what do you guys do?" That's not true. We hand drilled when you talked about you don't even know about the fact check.

1:15:15 That's okay. That's okay. But you guys are major. Like honestly, we didn't even think we could get on this podcast. I was like, "Wait, really?"

1:15:20 Well, we couldn't for a couple years. It took a long time. Yeah. I was like, "Wait, really? Season 3." I was like, "Did someone cancel? How are we getting on?"

1:15:27 Season 3, by the way, is so good. I was like, "Dax, remember like I knew him before he was famous, right? Like, make sure he knows."

1:15:33 So, let's do five minutes on that. I think we should, right? I want to know first impressions. Okay, fine. You start.

1:15:37 I mean, my first impressions is you're so [ __ ] beautiful. It's insane. But we never hooked up. We never

1:15:42 And I never hooked up with any of your friends. You You didn't hook up as much as you should have.

1:15:46 I hooked up with nobody a million%. You guys, I hooked up with [ __ ] nobody. No. It's pathetic. Honestly.

1:15:51 Yeah. Nobody. And then when you were in relationships, they were very long, right?

1:15:54 Yeah. My roster [clears throat] of like the people I passed down were epic. What?

1:15:59 I mean, I want to just like I would love to play a game. Like I know somehow I bet you've turned down Leonardo DiCaprio. Like he dated.

1:16:08 Oh my god. And so that's so I feel like I would hook up with uh Leo Oh yeah is the best. She has some good ones. That's what I'm saying.

1:16:18 Yeah. Now I'm feeling like was like on family vacations with us. It was very funny.

1:16:22 Oh my god. He's a gem of a human. He's very Oh, I have only the best things to say about anybody that I ever dated. But no, I just didn't have fun in life. Like I just didn't

1:16:33 Would you agree you would know best? I think he looks like Brad Pill. What do you mean? He's the Puerto Rican right now. Guys, guys, guys, people have said this.

1:16:43 People know it. They already know. They already knew it. That was how he was pitched to me. They were like, "He's the Puerto Rican Brad Pitt." Oh, [clears throat]

1:16:51 yeah. You do have a great story on your pot about George Clooney. I'll let I'll let people go find that. You know what? I actually feel bad about that.

1:16:58 You do? Yeah, I do because I forget that when we're talking that anyone listens.

1:17:03 Yeah, it's easy to do. So, I talk [ __ ] And I embellish it. I kind of embellished.

1:17:09 That's why I like it. Storyeller. Yeah. And I just sort of the way that the Well, the way you listen to it on the podcast was different than the headlines. The headlines really were shitty because

1:17:20 they always are. They always are. And this is why I hate talking about celebrities on our podcast because of course if Joemo talks about George Clooney, they're going to print something, right? So whatever. So I had just talked about we had mutual friends who thought that we would be a nice couple. But at that time I was like 22 and he was like 40 and it it just felt but the way that they printed it was that I said he was this old man and that he was this say like ew or something.

1:17:49 Yeah. No, you said he was boring or something which I'd love to hear. That's not what I meant. The guys and now you're talking about him again on here. This is but also there won't be there's there's nothing to be said.

1:18:00 There's nothing there's nothing to say but give it a second. The point is you had your options. Like you had a lot of options. But to be clear, he was not asking to be set up with me. When he met me, he was kind of like uh he was not interested either.

1:18:11 So, back to my impression. I thought you were outrageously beautiful. And then I thought you were suspiciously friendly for being so beautiful.

1:18:18 We always had a very nice relationship, you and I. Yes. Yes. I knew like my memory is a little different of yours. Mine is like I knew this guy you dated and I didn't like that guy.

1:18:26 Oh, yeah. No, I get that. Yeah. I never liked the guy. I knew him from AA and I'm like I don't I don't like this guy. met your ex-boyfriend and um and I'm meeting you and I'm kind of just like how are how are you giving that guy a time of day

1:18:38 and I wasted like 5 years of my life but we you know we're pulling into that cycle right it gets it gets it's like

1:18:44 but this is my this is like these are my wounds I don't move on easily so I get into relationships I get my heart broken and then and then it's like I waste like then years upset over it like I'm not a mover honer it takes me a very long time to move mom because even when I'm not in the relationship, I'm like mourning the relationship.

1:19:05 But someone who's like paralyzed in the moment. She won't ever do the things she needs to do in the relationship. So, she won't tell the person how she feels or she won't, you know, in any relationship, whether it be romantic or not, she has a very hard time actually doing the thing she needs to do in real time. So, then when it's over, she lives in so much regret that she's always like replaying it over and over in her head.

1:19:28 Should it have done this, could it have done that? Yeah. But also professionally, I had an agent who like wouldn't return my calls. He was my agent and I wouldn't fire him.

1:19:35 Like the guy like wouldn't even call me back and but I still wouldn't had the ball. Didn't have the ball. This relationship is over. I'm moving on. I'm going to go look for someone who actually cares about me, you know? So, it was like it it was a it was a theme with every with every relationship.

1:19:48 But yeah, so I I didn't I'm always I've always been so in awe of girls of young women. I I love it. Who get their heart broken and then rebound. I love it. I think it's so amazing. Like I all these young girls where they're like so upset they give themselves a week

1:20:04 and then they're like I'm going to go out with so and so. I'm like I'm obsessed with you.

1:20:07 Right. It's but it's great. Well, it's like an audition. It didn't go well. You got to [ __ ] get up for the next one. Let's go. Next audition.

1:20:15 I know. I don't have the I I'm missing those. I'm missing the the DNA. I'm missing the

1:20:22 probably pick people who you feel like I'm going to be in a long term. Like maybe you're slow to connect, but then when you connect, it's very deep.

1:20:30 Totally. So then of course it's going to be hard. It takes me time. I need friendship first.

1:20:35 Like that to me. I've never just like met someone and fallen in love. I was hearing an episode I was listening to of yours today where you were saying like there never been on a first date. Never.

1:20:44 Yeah. I've never You've been You were on a bunch of dates. Yeah. Like a hundred.

1:20:47 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So many. Yeah. Yeah. And then and then I then I was re kind of introduced to you when I was dating Kate and you and I was around you a lot there for that period.

1:20:55 Yeah. But like the dynamic shifted, I feel like I don't tell. No, no, no. I just sort of like remember me being excited like, "Oh my god, this is great." Like we're friends. You're d and you were I think a little bit not standoffish, but we you and I don't think had the same dynamic.

1:21:10 Really? That's my memory. You weren't like a dick or anything. Oh, good. Cuz I just had lovely feelings about you and I thought this is the funnest person that's always around. No, I only have the best feelings towards

1:21:20 because a lot of you get stuck with your girlfriend's friends and they could be a big miss and sometimes

1:21:24 but I remember being really excited that you guys were dating. Yeah, it was a very little serious fast.

1:21:29 God duck. And you guys were like always in beanies making out [ __ ] all day long.

1:21:35 From the trucker hat to the beanie. Yeah. But I remember being like feeling kind of like territorial over you. Like I remember this.

1:21:41 Oh, good. This is cool. I like have these. And I remember being like, Kate, this is crazy. It's like MY BEST FRIEND. AND I REMEMBER LIKE you and her were kind of like what she was like you don't know him that well

1:21:54 like literally and then I felt stupid. Oh my goodness. I didn't even know any of this

1:22:00 cuz it wasn't like that deep. But like but I realized I do remember feeling like stupid. I remember like

1:22:04 No, I actually think I remember you being a bit of a a lifeline. Like I felt a bit out of place in that world and I already knew you and that was very comforting.

1:22:12 Yeah. And were you like always Bradley Cooper or something? I don't have a memory of that.

1:22:15 I would bring him around a bunch. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh we came to the Halloween party. He was um he was Magnum PI.

1:22:21 But were you still dating her at this at this time? That was right when we were we broke up. Yeah. We had Yeah. broke up right before that party.

1:22:28 But were you friends with Kate before you guys dated then? I was friends with Oliver.

1:22:33 That's even how I what happened was I was friends with Oliver. I [ __ ] adore Oliver. I was at his house one night playing poker and she

1:22:42 came and played and she was still with Chris. I gave her 111% of any charm I have. Right.

1:22:48 Dax was obsessed with Kate as like a young I just thought she was so [ __ ] beautiful and I love almost and I was like oh my god I can't believe she's here. And I just gave her a everything I had in the reserve tank she got.

1:23:00 And she received it. She did. I remember leaving going like, "Well, that's as good of a job as one can do. She's married. Who cares?" But that was a great first showing.

1:23:08 Yeah. And then I just had a crush on her and then they separated and then then I got invited to have you know Steve Bril?

1:23:16 Of course. Yeah. So Bril invited me to dinner in Malibu and I went and she was there and she's now single and I'm like let's see if we can [ __ ] muster up this magic and get it going again. And then I got it going again. And then that and then from that night on we were just together every single day.

1:23:30 I'm confused on the timeline because when I met you it was at Kate's house. You were at a party. I remember it very clearly. Oh, I know you don't remember, but that's okay. Um, because you were with your girlfriend.

1:23:41 Oh, yeah. Yeah, Bri. Bri. Bri. And you Well, I don't know if you want me to say this part, but go ahead.

1:23:46 You guys were you guys were basically educating me on an open relationship. Oh, yeah. We talk about this all the time. And I interviewed Bri on the show.

1:23:53 Okay. So, I had like a long cover. I was 19 or something and I was like very like,

1:23:58 "What the [ __ ] are these two?" I was just I was like very out of my I was out of my depth at those parties cuz I was the little sister and I hadn't really found my place yet. And so we had a long conversation sitting like monogamy and this is the thing that I had a million questions of like what about getting jealous and what this and you guys were really selling me on it and I was kind of like

1:24:23 so is this what I have to do to like be in a happy relationship put you on a trajectory and she became a lesbian immediately after. Wait, so Dax is very meaningful to you in your life? This is

1:24:35 okay. I'm embarrassed to admit I don't remember that. I'm really embarrassed to admit that.

1:24:39 Okay. And then when you and Kate broke up, you and I like lost contact. We did. We started Well, I live on the east side. You lived

1:24:45 No, I know. But like I I feel like I went like a long period of time. Till nobody wants this.

1:24:52 Your best friend. And I remember when Kristen got cast and everything. I remember saying to Aaron, I'm very close with D.

1:25:00 She got on all over again. I was like, "Hold my beer. I'll make a call." I think even something like when we met or something, Sarah's like, "Did he mention that we were like literally friends?" And I'm like, "No."

1:25:12 Be like, "I'm confused. This is" She wasn't getting like the respect she wanted.

1:25:18 I definitely told Kristen. I'm like, "Oh, this is so exciting. I know Sarah." She lie. I've taken it I' I've had to admit that I didn't remember that conversation.

1:25:27 That's what you said to me yesterday, too, when we met. You're like, "You know, I like know that." So, I was like, "I know. I know. I do know this. I couldn't be more flattered that that you're doing that. That makes me very happy. I mean,

1:25:39 I don't know that we really have to talk about the show. We have We'll have the full cast on the same week, right?

1:25:44 The cast came on already. The Monday we had all of them. Four of them. How does that go? Like, is everyone talking over each other?

1:25:51 Well, that's was scary, but it went It was great. All four of them together. Um,

1:25:57 and Adam sat there. We had to put a chair there. It was great. But obviously, I guess one thing I want to know is I can tell you I've been with Kristen 19 years. I've seen her have lots of different successes. You can't get bigger than Frozen. Um, you know, um, uh, The Good Place was enormous. Um,

1:26:17 when that show came out, we were in New York and it was probably had been out for maybe 3 or 4 weeks

1:26:24 and like we went to go see a show somewhere and it was um, what would I say? It was untenable with like just walking to the theater, being at the theater, being in line. I was like,

1:26:37 "Oh my god, I thought I knew what level." You know, she couldn't get more famous in your head.

1:26:43 Yeah. And I'm just and I said to her, I'm like, I I'm going to start meeting you places. Like I can't walk I I can't live like this. Like I can't we can't talk to 100% of the people we see on the street in New York City.

1:26:54 So I just know even from our perspective where we've already had a good dose of it. It was crazy. And I want to know what it what did that feel like for you guys to have your first TV show and for just to be like a cultural phenomenon. That was it was so wild. How were you digesting that?

1:27:11 It [snorts] was crazy. Mhm. But also, you know, I had had a lot of failed shows I'd written. So, it wasn't like

1:27:19 I want to write a show and then that show's a hit. It was like, right? You probably had modest expectations.

1:27:24 Yeah. I think it was Barely Famous was our first show we ever got on the air and it was on the wrong network and nobody saw it at the time and so it was like I don't know if you would say it's a failure or not, but it certainly wasn't like a failure.

1:27:37 Sarah's shopping it around. She may have found a home for it on a streamer. Yeah, I mean that's when I should put it on like

1:27:43 but then between the year of between that year 2016 and then when the show came out 2024 um that's a long time of me writing shows that aren't making on the air.

1:27:54 So making pilots, filming pilots, no one seeing them became the creative directors of Bumble in between all this. Like we took a job at a tech like a lot happened.

1:28:02 Yeah. Three years is um in between the window. Yeah. So, it was um I I think there's some it's an interesting thing as a writer that you can actually have a really good living never getting anything on the air.

1:28:14 You can write [clears throat] things, people buy them, you sell a show, keeps inching up a little bit even though nothing's getting made.

1:28:20 Exactly. You And so, you can I had like I was kind of comfortable with the idea that I was even in the game at all.

1:28:27 That still felt like a really big win to me. Um, and I still felt like the person that's psyched to have the card to get on the Paramount lot. So, anytime I made something and it didn't get picked up, like unlike Sarah who has a hard time with things ending,

1:28:42 I have radical acceptance at all times. I'm like, keep it moving. And that really is the life of a writer. You, at least in TV, is that you're or in film, you're you're making something. You're spending a year of your life on it. You're writing it. You're adjusting it. You're making changes. And then one day they say, "No thanks." And it is dead. They own it now

1:29:01 and they don't want it so they can't that's it and so I don't think about it again. Imagine all the good material getting dusted on shelves that nobody will never see. So much so much. And so with this show, um, you know, it was like the ninth pitch and everyone had said no.

1:29:16 And so I again was very much like, okay, great. Let's just let this thing die already. Like everyone's saying no. I've spent a really long time trying to write this pilot. It was a really hard one for me to write because it was really personal.

1:29:28 And according to the New York Times, LA Times, whatever article I read, you were at a point too where you're like, I don't think I can write anymore.

1:29:34 Yeah. I just was sort of um I think it was just it had not happened for so long and I was getting married and I was 37 and I wanted to be a mom and I'm like what am I chasing? You know, what is this thing I'm doing? Like I don't think I

1:29:52 I don't think I I want this to be my story. Yeah. Trying to make something happen that's not going to happen. So I'd rather pivot to something that is loving me back. And writing was always

1:30:04 I weirdly always had open doors. Like people always wanted me to give them something which felt like a big win. Everyone loved your

1:30:11 They had options. Yeah. Yeah. But they weren't getting to the next step. Yeah. You couldn't get it past the finish line.

1:30:17 I couldn't get past the finish line. And I was getting a lot of the same feedback which was like,

1:30:22 "We love your writing. We love the dialogue. It doesn't feel big. It's like not not enough is happening.

1:30:28 So am I supposed to like write a cop show?" I I just didn't really know how to still be me and get it over the finish line. And that was not something I wanted to be in the battle of for my whole life.

1:30:40 So, I was now in a very content place in my life, in my personal life. Everything had calmed down

1:30:47 and I was really happy and I didn't feel that need anymore to chase it. Um, so this

1:30:54 brand just jumps in with all the random [ __ ] I'm trying to like be such you also found love and now you have like a business for the first time in your life was like a really fun distraction Important part of the [ __ ] story

1:31:10 perhaps the most important no favorite daughter was a very very fun distraction cuz it was also doing well

1:31:17 and it was in a lot of ways low stakes cuz that wasn't my dream if it wasn't your identity

1:31:23 yes that was not my identity so it was a really fun thing to really put my energy into Um, but then my manager, Olly, again, called me one day and he was like, "Hey, can I get a um discount code for that bowling branch I heard on the podcast?" And I was like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." You know, Foster 15. And he was like, "Wow, you really you really," this is going to sound mean. He goes, "You really took the the loser path in life, huh?" I go, "What?" He's like, "I'm just kidding, but you know, it's like you're a writer. You don't write

1:31:50 and you're just like selling sheets." And I wanted to die. Yeah. I was like, "Wait, what do you mean? I I I am writing. I still I have that thing." He's like, "You're not writing. You're not doing it." Like, you know, that's what you're meant to do. And it lit a fire in me. First of all, I was so mad at him.

1:32:10 And so hurt and so embarrassed. And I remember like telling Simon that he had just said that. And so I was like, "What did you just [ __ ] say to you? Say that to me." But I knew that it hit a nerve for a reason. Uh-huh.

1:32:22 And I was just really avoiding writing this pilot because I was so scared of the consequences in my relationship

1:32:30 because I had only ever written as a single person. Yeah. Where I don't have to answer to anyone in terms of what I'm sharing.

1:32:38 Yeah. And I was marrying into this immigrant family who are hyper secretive about everything. And I'm about to sort of make a not make fun of them, but like make light

1:32:52 of make entertainment out of them. And I was really scared that I'm going to [ __ ] up the first great healthy relationship I've ever been in.

1:33:03 Yeah. By exploiting it for this other dream, I was supposed to have been at peace with letting go.

1:33:08 Yeah. And it was in real conflict. And and so I wanted to tank it. I really wanted to tank it.

1:33:17 Yeah. No. No. Like actually tank it. She's like, we're not pitching. Like we're like you did not want to pitch Netflix.

1:33:23 No. Did you talk to Simon about it? Did he put you at ease? Yeah. He was kind of like, I agree with you. This is

1:33:28 She was happy when everyone was passing like Amazon, Apple, NBC. She was thrilled.

1:33:33 She was like, this is a headache you don't have to have. Like I wanted to do it, but they won't say yes. Yeah.

1:33:38 And then one day, Simon was like, "I think you should call my dad and tell him Mhm.

1:33:44 that you're making the show or they're not making it yet, but like that you wrote this thing and just see what he says." And so I said, "Annati, I got to talk to you. I wrote this show and you know it's a it's a script and you you can read it if you want to and I'm sure it won't go anywhere and blah blah blah." And I was so scared. And he goes, "Aaron, this is really exciting." Okay, I just have one request. Don't make us look poor.

1:34:10 Oh, incredible. Make us look rich. Yeah. Yeah. Incredible. Guess what they did. They said, "Okay, the easiest note you'll get in the whole project."

1:34:20 And he was so excited and supportive and and that was when Simon even realized that

1:34:28 he was like protecting them a lot in ways that he thought he was supposed to as a good son of immigrants. immigrants.

1:34:37 Yeah. That, you know, we've talked about this. Immigrant culture is very similar across different backgrounds.

1:34:43 And so he had that thing instilled in him that it's like a betrayal to his family.

1:34:48 It's your job to protect them. Yes. When you're the American and it turned out they didn't want to be protected. They like success.

1:34:54 They want to see their children thriving. And their daughter-in-law to have a hit show. Come on.

1:34:58 Exactly. Yeah. They're going to tell their friends about it. That's exciting. And that's what it ended up being. But it freed me and and then I was able to actually write it in a way that I enjoyed and not tank it.

1:35:09 Uhhuh. And so it it just was um so when it hit Yeah. It was a lot leading up to that.

1:35:19 Right. And I never ever saw that coming. Yeah. I could not have imagined. No. On set, even on set, you were like, no one could have imagined. I remember I watched all episodes back toback and came to set one day and I go

1:35:34 [ __ ] works. Yeah. Mhm. It [ __ ] works. I I remember like it was yesterday and you were like I don't know. And I was like [ __ ]

1:35:41 And season was complicated. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was [snorts] a tough time and I was pregnant the whole time and it was just

1:35:47 I was the husband. You were the husband, you know. God, season hard. It was though. ended up hurting. It was a hard time, but then

1:35:57 and then it turned No, it turned into something so great. Yeah. I'm with Aaron, my best friend Aaron. We're in my bus in Texas.

1:36:05 Oh, you're not me. A different person. Okay. Me? His best friend Sarah. Yeah. Right. Sarah.

1:36:11 Yeah. Aaron Weekly. Sorry. Best friend Aaron Weekley. And we on my bus in Texas and I'm like, "Okay, this show's out. Let's watch it." And the two of us are watching this. And when they kissed for the first time, we were we screamed. We were like, "OH MY GOD." I GO, "THAT'S THE BEST kiss I've ever [ __ ]

1:36:32 seen it. You saw nothing?" No, I hadn't seen that. I saw it when it came out. But I was just happened to leave on this bus trip right when it came out. So then we watched it

1:36:41 and Aaron's like, "Oh my god, has she ever kissed you like that?" I'm like, "No, I don't think I've ever been kissed like that." Like we rewound it. We watched it like five times and that was when I was like, "Oh yeah, this thing's going to be a [ __ ]

1:36:55 juggernaut." Like, like if I'm the husband rewinding to watch your wife chemistry and the way it's shot, like, yeah, this is going to [ __ ] work.

1:37:05 But I don't think we knew when we were making it, you know, by the way, you never [ __ ] know. It's not unique to this show. It's like you shoot a pilot and you sometimes you think it, oh, this is a hit and it's not and then sometimes you're like, I don't know, and then it is. Like there's no [ __ ] way.

1:37:20 Yeah. You know, the magic of the zeitgeist. Why on earth? Again, that shows it was so [ __ ] weird. I have, you know, I'm going to see my older Jewish doctors in Beverly Hills and every one of them's talking my [ __ ] ear off about my wife's show. And I'm like, you're a 70-year-old dude. You [ __ ] And then there's 12-year-old girl, you know? It's just like I've never seen a range of people

1:37:41 consume a show like that. Yeah. Still can't totally explain it logically. like I think I have theories. I think a lot of the things we love the most are really wish fulfillment and I think to see

1:37:54 a woman in her 40s uh being Kristen have this totally swept up in love moment Yeah.

1:38:02 is so life affirming and like wish fulfillmenty. Yeah. I think that's part of it, you know.

1:38:07 Yeah. and that the relationship is good. Yeah. Even even though obviously there's stuff there a huge hurdle, but the actual relationship you're seeing is very happy and aspirational and good. And I brought this up with the cast. I said, I think part of the reason the show

1:38:24 is so compelling is your actual relationship, your love for Simon and your respect for him. you see in that Adam Kristen couple, Joanna and Noah couple. Um, so clearly and it's so it's it's you guys.

1:38:41 Yeah. It's terma. It's bedrock. It's bedrock. It is. It's anchored in bedrock. It's anchored in something real.

1:38:49 Yeah. Cuz it's like the it's very romantic, but also it's um it's not dramatic.

1:38:57 Yes. It's very healthy. Mhm. And I think that usually you think you get one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:39:03 And I really like the idea of showing both because that's what we all want. I mean, maybe it's not what everyone wants, but it's what you should want.

1:39:10 Yeah. You should want to be swept off your feet with someone who's going to still be there in the morning and not play games with you.

1:39:15 Yeah. But I think it's true. Like you can't say it about yourself, but I think there are few voices that can just make us feel all those things and laugh. like a Nancy Myers. She hates it when I say it,

1:39:25 but like it is that and like that combined with I mean Kristen is she's a comedic assassin.

1:39:33 She really, you know, it's it's truly like I knew she was, but when you're on set watching her,

1:39:39 you're just like, "Oh, this is why tangle with Julia Louise Drifus." Like she could do everything. We call her an active robot. She's like AI. It doesn't [ __ ]

1:39:49 You give her one note and it's perfect. It's like it makes no sense. I've had to edit her many times like in things.

1:39:55 Uhhuh. Couldn't be easier. She's [ __ ] matches her [ __ ] If she's holding a jar here in this shot, she's holding it. Exactly. And you're like, how you giving that performance? And also your continuity is absolutely

1:40:06 Is she trained? Is she like, what's her training? Oh yeah, she's been acting since she was a kid. She went to NYU to for musical theater.

1:40:13 I think like I want you to be a little bit more like anxious about it. And she'll be like 15% or like 70%. And I'm like, uh, 15. Great. I'll give you 15%. What a psycho. Okay, great. That is actually what I wanted.

1:40:27 Yeah. Yeah. And when I've directed her and she I know those days are her, I'm like, "Oh, [ __ ] easiest day." Every day on this shoot that's got her in it. I'm like, "Well, that's I don't even think about that day. That's nice."

1:40:39 By the way, if she said no, who knows if there would even be a show cuz I think for Netflix, they bought it kind of going this is for Kristen Bell or nobody. This is for Kristen Bell cuz she wrote it for her. She went for her and I I was the I mean not her and I but I was maybe going to be the sister but she was Joanne you know and Netflix was like

1:40:57 no thank you. Yeah. So we do have this girl who seems to be working quite well on the streamer.

1:41:02 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're like we wouldn't mind sticking with her but this season and she's fantastic.

1:41:07 Yes I am this season one episode. Fantastic. I was on set that day weirdly. was one of the days and I had not researched you yet so I didn't even know you had acted and I said to Kristen [ __ ] a she's [ __ ] really funny. It was really scary but Kristen was awesome and Adam was great and it was they were like shepherded me along and I said I needed them to be like my acting coaches. I was really nervous cuz now that I've been doing it for

1:41:32 this is the third year we were doing the show. It was like I knew what I was up against. And I also know I'm usually the person sitting in Video Village where if someone is not getting it right, you're like, "Oh my god, yes, babe. Do your job." Like, "Hello, we all want to go home." And now I'm like, "What if I'm that person who can't remember her lines?"

1:41:50 That's why acting's hard. I was so acting. It's so scary. I do [ __ ] suck. It was really fun. But

1:41:57 no, no, it was really fun, but I I certainly don't want to pursue that that career anymore. But anyway, it's it's been um it's been a

1:42:03 I'd like to see her in season 4. You want to see Nicole? Yeah. I want to see like maybe you have broken up the sister's wedding or marriage and Yeah. Let's see what that train wreck looks like.

1:42:13 You want to know something? You want to know something funny? We've been writing you into this season.

1:42:18 Oh, you have? Yeah. Would you say yes? I was watching season 3, which I love. Okay.

1:42:23 And I jokingly said, who was I watching it with? I think best friend Aaron Weekly.

1:42:27 And I was like, you know what? I think season 4 should I come in and [ __ ] this whole perfect party up.

1:42:34 Uhhuh. Yeah. We we have an idea. We have an idea that was formed a few weeks ago that we were like, "Put your name." We put your name on the board

1:42:42 thinking about it and then today we were in the room and this idea for you actually pivoted and switched into something bigger. And then what we said was, well, let's ask him

1:42:54 if how many episodes he would actually want to be in before we make this choice

1:42:58 because it would be it's not like you have to be there all season or anything, but but it would be like pivotal

1:43:03 and an important role and it was we felt like it would be a very fun interesting thing. You know, it's funny. If you had asked me last year, I would have said no. Cuz I had not acted in six years. And I was very happy to not act.

1:43:15 And then I Bill Lawrence was in here and he said like, "I'm going to make you act on one of my shows." I'm like, "I don't really want to do it." And he said, "What if every scene's with Vince?" And I was like,

1:43:24 "I'll do that." Yeah. I've always wanted to do that. So, I just did this now. And I [clears throat] loved it. I ended that experience. I was like, "Oh, I'm more open to that than I thought I was." Okay. So, we're catching the right. I've been saying why haven't the podcast worlds collided

1:43:41 like we that like that on a platter you guys the girls go on your or like we're at a podcast conference cutting you out of this

1:43:52 podcast we need to see more of the podcast in four we got to see forward move I you I always want I I love aspirational comedy I'm like the girls need to like we need to see some subc career wins

1:44:04 one of my thoughts when I was seeing early stuff is I was like I need to know why people recognize these girls when they go out in public. I need to know what they're talking about. I need to know what the fans like about it. I have

1:44:15 they're famous podcast. Yeah. I've wanted a lot of I've wanted that. Like minimally you could consult me.

1:44:22 I know we've had a hard time in the writer room having the podcast be an interesting engine. Like we we we were using it more season one as like you know to tell the story to show who they are. Yeah. So, my idea, you're right, you sitting and watching people talk is limited, but I thought the the the the way to tackle it is like it's all about when you guys are out in public, like what we could be learning about you from the fans.

1:44:48 Yeah. Is the way to keep that dynamic and you get it with Nicole. Yeah. By the way, I play a fan. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is great.

1:44:55 And in the first season when it was clear that he was sort of uncomfortable with you guys talking about sex, like that was helpful and good. That was good.

1:45:03 And that's a real thing. It's a real thing. Like what you're talking about on here and it's coming back to bite you in the ass.

1:45:08 There are times on our podcast where I'll say everyone listening, do not DM Simon about this. Don't get anything you see out in the world. Like just let this one go.

1:45:17 The best thing in the world is that Kristen does not listen to the show at all.

1:45:21 And it would be more stressful if she did. Right. But would she be upset? She feels

1:45:26 she doesn't get upset, but it just would be more stressful. Do you guys ever fight? You guys to me feel like I could not. And I obviously know you better than I know her. Kind [snorts and laughter] of. I mean, but I better than you know, but I also don't know any better than she does.

1:45:41 I mean, if we're being honest, but I don't know like a lot about you guys relate. You guys are very private. Like, do you guys I I feel like you guys are a couple that just get along really well.

1:45:50 I think Oh, again, 19 [ __ ] years. And um I I think we're pretty good at handling our [ __ ] We have a lot of [ __ ] though.

1:46:00 Yeah. We have two children and they are going through puberty and that stressor is

1:46:06 it throws the whole dynamic into a new zone that you have to figure out how okay how do we now navigate this? We

1:46:13 you know I think it's really hard when they're really little cuz you you care so much about the decisions you're making with the kid.

1:46:18 You're certain you can [ __ ] it up and it gets harder. Exactly. So, it's like you're butting heads about how you think this should be done,

1:46:25 which is stressful if both people care a lot, which we did. And then there's a sweet spot, right? Between like six and puberty, you're like, "This is working out pretty good. I think this compromise, however, we're doing it is working." And then a whole new situation comes in. You're like, "Fuck, well, now we need a new stretching. I don't know that we always agree."

1:46:42 And then there's more stress. I like to think if we didn't have kids, we would it would be pretty smooth sailing, but I think the kids thing definitely Yeah. you know, um, but we don't we don't scream at each other or swear at each other or scream. [clears throat]

1:46:55 No, I'm very large in my house and I have to really be mindful of that. I just talk loud. Even how the level I talk is like I it's hard for me to remember. Oh, I'm much bigger than everyone. We're all talking at the same volume, I think, but it's different coming from me,

1:47:10 right? You're like, I won't go we won't go to bed in a fight. Yeah. I mean, we'll go to bed for sure for like we'll kick something down the road for a week.

1:47:18 Yeah. Yeah, we'll go to bed for a week where it's like we're going to have to talk about

1:47:23 this eventually. You know what day will that be? When will there be enough free air in the [ __ ] room without the kids to mount this?

1:47:32 Also, when is it fun to bring it up? Exactly. And it's like you might have a reprieve from whatever kids stuff you're doing and you're like, we want to use this tiny reprieve to address that. I guess we have to. Yeah. So certainly there's like four or five nights in a row you're like there's a talk looming, you know, there'll be a sit down.

1:47:51 Yeah. [snorts] Great. Well, you guys are fantastic. I'm so glad we had you on. This was so [ __ ] fun.

1:47:58 Totally fun. We're all real friends now. Did we Guys, did we overd deliver or underdel?

1:48:03 I say over big time. She's like Well, I also did that a little on purpose cuz I, you know, cuz I knew it was expected. Thank you guys so much for having us.

1:48:12 Sincerely, you guys are so [ __ ] fun. I think so many people are envious of how tight you guys are as siblings.

1:48:18 That was the that's the real draw of the podcast. That's what I realized when I was like, why can't I stop listening? I was like, oh, it's their relationship and I'm jealous of that.

1:48:26 Again, that's the wish fulfillment aspirational thing. It's rare. You just can't get it any other way. Like sisters and the way you guys grew up and all of it, like there's no other way to

1:48:38 It's like blood harmonies. The joy of it is, and I do think this is why people should definitely have siblings, is like your [ __ ] siblings tell you the goddamn truth.

1:48:46 Yeah. Like we're so mean to each other. Siblings. Yep. And yet we're closer and we love each other more and it works.

1:48:53 Yeah. When I first started listening, I was like, they're so mean to each other. What? But then I was like, "Oh, but it's cuz they're so safe."

1:49:01 Yeah. If you come downstairs in the morning, you got a zip. My brother's going to be like, "Fuck me. That's fucking," you know, like he's going to let it rip. We say the craziest things to each other, but then but we laugh.

1:49:12 Yeah. Exactly. She says the most offensive things to me and I'm just like they're all true.

1:49:17 It's because you have true security. Exactly. Which is like you can only get a permanent relationship.

1:49:22 Yeah. Really lovely. Love [snorts] you guys.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Sara & Erin Foster | Armchair Expert With Dax Shepard"?

Aaron Foster (Guest), Sarah Foster (Guest), Dax Shepard (Host).

What is "Sara & Erin Foster | Armchair Expert With Dax Shepard" about?

Two sisters discuss their dynamic and personalities, joking about fame, family roles, and their own confidence while sharing light, playful banter. They touch on personal quirks, media formats, and how they’re perceived by others.

What is mentioned in this Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard episode?

87 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Dak Shepard, Sara Foster, Nobody Wants This, Erin Foster, Monica Padman, Favorite Daughter. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Sara & Erin Foster | Armchair Expert With Dax Shepard"?

The episode runs 1 h 50 min; the transcript is about 24,471 words in 652 timestamped sections.

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