Transcript

Part One: Behind the Bastards Live Show: The Ballad of Bo Gritz | BEHIND THE BASTARDS

From Behind the Bastards · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 58 min · 10,845 words · 205 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Part One: Behind the Bastards Live Show: The Ballad of Bo Gritz | BEHIND THE BASTARDS", an episode of Behind the Bastards published November 19, 2025 (58 min, about 10,845 words). It mentions 15 people, works and ideas, including Washington Post, Portland Defense Fund, Almost Heaven, Sophie Lterman, Jason Petty.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Jason Petty, Portland Defense Fund, Sophie Lterman
  2. – 10:00: Almost Heaven, James Boes
  3. – 15:00: Washington Post
  4. – 30:00: Washington Post
  5. – 45:00: Bogue Wrights, Heath Lee, Jeff Heisley
  6. – 50:00: Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin), Dick Nixon, Lyndon B. Johnson, Viva or Voices in Vital America
  7. – 55:00: George Hogland
  8. – 57:52: Portland Defense Fund, Washington Post

Notable quotes from "Part One: Behind the Bastards Live Show: The Ballad of Bo Gritz | BEHIND THE BASTARDS"

  • Have a couple of very special people to introduce. First off, my producer and business partner, the ineitable Sophie Lterman.
    about Sophie Lterman · at
  • Planned for everybody. first I want to thank all of you for coming out and supporting the Portland Defense Fund.
    about Portland Defense Fund · at
  • Supremacist movement. Much of the episode took place in an intentional community for these people named Almost Heaven, which was founded and operated by the subject of our…
    about Almost Heaven · at
  • So James Boes, I don't know where the bow came from. Don't ask me. I can't answer that for you. Hey, what was that?
    about James Boes · at
  • Flew B17s and was shot down over France in November of 1944. Bo was five. An article by Art Harris in the Washington Post describes Bo as feeling as if his father died fighting…
    about Washington Post · at
  • Them. That became a widespread conspiratorial belief largely due to Bogue Wrights. He is a hu he's not the only one but he is a major reason for that. Now, the flag itself that…
    about Bogue Wrights · at
  • Like absolutely not, MAN. YOU'RE WHAT? That's really [ __ ] crazy. per an article in Time by Heath Lee, quote, If the women dared to discuss it, their government warned them the men might be badly treated or even executed.
    about Heath Lee · at
  • But this is Dick Nixon we're talking about.
    about Dick Nixon · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Sophie Lterman — Person · 1 mention · first at
  • Jason Petty — Person · 1 mention · first at
    And then of course our guest for tonight, the host of Hood Politics and my good friend Jason Petty aka Prop.
  • James Boes — Person · 1 mention · first at
  • Bogue Wrights — Person · 1 mention · first at
  • Jeff Heisley — Person · 1 mention · first at
    For that. Now, the flag itself that I just described was designed by a guy named Jeff Heisley in 1970. And when Jeff designs the flag, to be fair to Jeff, there were a bunch of…
  • Heath Lee — Person · 1 mention · first at
  • Lyndon B. Johnson — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Been applied to prisoners and missing troops in previous wars and was one President Lyndon B. Johnson would adhere to during the Vietnam War. The US government tried to use its…
  • Dick Nixon — Person · 1 mention · first at
  • Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin) — Person · 1 mention · first at
    This change was not made out of compassion. It was made for an even more [ __ ] up reason. As H. Bruce Franklin outlines in his book MIA, Mythmaking in America, which is a…
  • George Hogland — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Money for this stupid [ __ ] And his favorite go-to story is the tale of a real guy, Sergeant George Hogland.
  • Louie Thuro — Person · 1 mention

Companies & orgs

Places & events

Full transcript with timestamps

I started as an older boy working at the church, learning all my holy moves, doing some research, which led me to a cash box, labelled children's fund. I'd leave the change and tuck the bills inside my Cumberb. I've got a part-time job at my father's carpet store tackless stripping and housewives by the score. I loaded up their furniture and took it took action.

Anybody mind if I reker with the chair here a little bit? Welcome to Behind the Bastards Live, our first live show. This is our first live show in a little while. Um because I don't like leaving the house uh and am a deranged shut in who's increasingly losing his connection to the world in reality. Um like a lot of people, presidents for example. Um before we get into the show today, I have a couple of very special people to introduce. First off, my producer and business partner, the ineitable Sophie Lterman.

Wow. [screaming] And then of course our guest for tonight, the host of Hood Politics and my good friend Jason Petty aka Prop. Hey. Yeah. What's clackam massing? You know what I'm saying? How y'all feeling?

I've been planning that one all day. You know what I'm saying? What's clackam massing?

We workshopped that. That was like $40,000 in development. Jay Leno's writers don't come cheap.

Um, but worth it obviously. Clearly. So, uh, welcome everybody. Uh, thank you for dealing with, you know, the the line, the security measures and stuff. I think for obvious reasons, we're all a little bit extra careful these days.

Why did something happen? No, not that I'm aware of. Oh, okay. Um, so, uh, we've got a special night planned for everybody. Uh, first I want to thank all of you for coming out and supporting the Portland Defense Fund. Uh,

it's a really good cause and y'all have raised north of $30,000 so far for them, which Yeah. uh that goes a long way and especially considering most of the people who need help with that. We're talking about like houseless folks. We're talking about people who have absolutely no access to resources. Um and this is the only lifeline they're going to get and the only help they're going to get. So, thank you all for helping to keep that lifeline alive.

Round of applause for you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Represent. Round of applause for everybody in the audience except one of you [ __ ] They know who they are.

Not you, mom. Also, uh just a just a quick show of hands cuz it's a gang of white people in here. Uh

it is Portland. It is Portland. If you got like a drip of melanin in you, can you make some noise real quick? I just want to see. Okay, you've got more than a drip. Make some noise.

You got a lot of it. Make some noise. Okay, that's my section right there. Okay, just making sure.

I was like, it's got to be uh it's got to be at least five of you in here. Yeah,

prop. It's good that you introduce that because our our subject for these episodes is

Hey, look, it's not a bit we never know. Like, we never know. Wait, wait. Before we start, should we give them the drinking game rules?

We do have a drinking game. Yes, there are. Let me Let Yeah, we So, the drinking game rules are as follows. First off, be responsible. Don't drive. Okay? Don't operate heavy machinery, unless it seems like it would be really funny. So, first off, take a drink if the subject of the podcast directly or indirectly kills somebody.

Second of all, if Prof goes, "You know what I'm saying? No, no, no, Sophie. We can't legally. That'll the people will die.

I'm doing it. Alcoholic poison. I'm trying to get y'all twisted. You know what I'm saying?

That's like insane. Yeah. If Robert says right, take a shot. Um, second of all, what was second?

Oh, no. I'm doing that one. Oh god, now that counts. Third. Third is war crimes.

Yeah. When there's a war crime committed, take a drink. Y. And this one might really hurt everyone, but if I have to go, Robert, no. So when I was a young man in about 2005 or 2006, I came across a bunch of torrents from a documentary TV series called Weird Weekends made by a British fellow named Louie Thuru. Now, one of the episodes released in 1998 was about survivalists. In it, Louie met a bunch of weirdo libertarian far-right and some outright Nazi weirdos who were living offrid in rural Idaho. This was probably

Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. What about that? Doesn't scan rule. I Okay. When you were a young boy.

Yeah. I was like 18, 19. Yeah. When I was a young boy, my father took me into the city

to see a marching band. Yeah. Wow. But uh um rural Idaho. Okay. So, I think I know where we're going with this.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Uh, so this is probably my first journalistic introduction to content on the militia movement and the at that point still nent post Oklahoma City bombing white supremacist movement. Much of the episode took place in an intentional community for these people named Almost Heaven, which was founded and operated by the subject of our episodes today, a famous figure in the right-wing underground named Boes.

Yeah, we know. We got some bon knowowers here. We got some Boites out this mud.

Some Boowers. Yeah. Uh now, so the spot was called Almost Heaven. Almost heaven.

Almost. We'll get to there at the end. Yeah, they were really close. Okay. Just like all those people who nearly got raptured, right?

I mean, look. Almost. So, and by the way, Boes, the name is spelled G- R I TZ, but it's pronounced Grits.

That's irritating. It is. It's you can tell a lot about the journalists reporting on him because they'll either say that his name rhymes when they're writing about him that his name rhymes with sights as in rifle sights or bites which I think was a subtle way of expressing bias because bog writes definitely bites in like the late 90s sense of the word when to them

yeah like bite me bite me right yeah yeah so the main claim to fame that you'll find if you read anything on B uh is that he was the guy whose real life inspire ired the character John Rambo. He's the real Rambo. Rambo was based on him. Whoa. Cool, right? Awesome. Absolutely not. Absolutely not true. It's It's a partial true, right?

If you've seen Rambo First Blood, the first Rambo movie. Pretty good movie. It's about like a traumatized Vietnam veteran who gets abused by small town sheriffs like an hour and a half north of here. Um, it's about like PTSD. I was like, he's got severe PTSD in that book.

It's It's like not jingoistic at all. It's not a very pro America movie. The sequel to Rambo First Blood, Rambo First Blood Part Two, because we used to know how to name things in this [ __ ]

It's also a very great uh Nintendo game, too. Yes. A banger. Yes. The sequel, Rambo First Blood Part Two, was a very different movie. Instead of a traumatized veteran getting like abused by police and kind of losing his mind, John Rambo has to go fight the refight the Vietnam War to go rescue a bunch of PS as part of a secret black ops operation. And this is the thing that's based on Boes, right? So that's where we're building towards. Um, so James Boes, I don't know where the bow came from. Don't ask me. I can't answer that for you. Hey,

what was that? Like white people. Y'all just be throwing names with me. You know what I'm saying?

It they don't get whiter because our man Bo was born January 18th, 1939 in Enid, Oklahoma. Uh yeah,

this dude is just hitting all the notes. As a as a white kid from Oklahoma, that Oklahoma white people hit different. Um,

I will say this about Oklahoma white people. Now, we don't have much time, but I will say this.

Where is this going? No, listen, y'all. Like, Oklahoma white people know their way around a grill.

That's that is true. Y'all can make some barbecue. They be seasoning their food.

Don't get in a car with them, though. Don't get in a car. Um, so he was born uh January 18th, 1939. The only child to a family who was about to be deeply rocked by war. His father was an Army Airore pilot and once the US entered the big dubdub dose, he flew B17s and was shot down over France in November of 1944. Bo was five. An article by Art Harris in the Washington Post describes Bo as feeling as if his father died fighting the right war. B's going to be in Vietnam, so this is pretty easy to understand, right?

Oh, okay. I was like, I missed the good war by two wars. Just two wars. Yeah. Jesus Christ.

So, as a child, Bo worshiped his dad and seems to have never considered anything but a military career. And while his father had died over Europe, Bo fantasized, for whatever reason, about, well, I think there's one very clear reason about fighting Japanese soldiers, right? His dad dies fighting the Nazis. Bo's always going to be real interested in fighting the Japanese.

Um, here's a quote from Bo. We had a big wheat field in front of my house and I'd hide in there. I always saw myself in a jungle environment. There was a dirt runway and I had a P-51 Mustang and lived in a grass hut with a brown woman. Every morning I'd put on my leather jacket, get into my aircraft and fly off to do combat against the enemy all day long. Yeah, he just he just said that

you're six. Like wait a brown woman. First of all, hard agreed, but also it's the hut for me.

It's the hut is the hut. You're hard agreeing on the hut huh? The hut is an issue. Yeah.

Yeah. The hut's the issue. Okay. So, B spent a lot of time hiding in cover in his front porch with a BB gun, shooting at toys that he'd set up in the yard. One day, he shot a toy truck. The BB ricocheted and hit B in the eye. It was a bad enough injury. There's a weird right-wing militia guy thing of shooting yourself in the eye. If you remember the Oathkeepers founder, Stuart Rhodess, who really blasted the eye out there with a straightup real gun. But anyway, Bo doesn't lose his eye. Otherwise, this would be a very different story. But he has to explain to the doctor what happens, and he just tells the doctor the and he uses a slur for Japanese soldiers here, shot back. Right. So,

hey, but that's not what happened. All, right? You just said he shot himself. Well, he he it ricochet.

It ricocheted. Ricochet. I don't know if you want to count that as shooting himself.

I do. It's bad gun safety, right? Can we say that? That kind of Yeah. Yeah. I mean, low key, like he kind of shot himself.

It's not a pattern yet, but it's weird that it happened twice with right-wing militia leaders, right? We're just waiting for one more of these guys to get their own eye and then we uh I don't know.

No predicting things. Like a free coffee. Okay. Free coffee. I don't know. Bo was raised by his maternal grandparents primarily. a fact which most of the articles I read about him like in the Washington Post and stuff just said he was raised by his grandparents and I was like but he had a mom where'd she go? So I had to go digging and I found an old Parade magazine article from 1983 by Oid Dearus. Uh and this is what that article says. His mother, a pilot with the women's air force service pilots would later marry a master sergeant remain with the occupation forces in Germany after the war. That's all they say. She just left. She was just like I'm starting a new family. Hey, I'm sorry.

Your dad's dead. This is kind of a wash. Gramps and grandma are going to take care of you. I'm gone.

They'll do a better job than me, kid. Yeah. Yeah. Trust me, I intend to make that true. Um, so, um, yeah, aside from being abandoned, Bo had what you might call a normal life for a white boy in Oklahoma in the post-war period. He was in the boy scouts. He was in the explorer scouts. He did all the different scouting things you can do. But he also had significant behavioral issues. We don't know exactly why, but Bo was expelled from high school. It may have had something to do with what we might classify as compulsive lawbreaking. The Post called him a self-style juvenile prankster, which is a term that people who grow up to be Law and Order conservatives used to describe the crimes they committed as kids so that they're different from hoodlams, right?

You're not a hoodlam. You're you're Yeah. You're precociously stealing people's cars or whatever, right?

Yeah. Must be nice. Um he also claims to It must be nice to be precocious. I tell you what,

to get to be precocious. Dang, lucky. Yeah. Um, so Bose stole cars and motorcycles. Precocious.

PRECOCIOUS. YEAH, HE'S JUST an excitable boy. Since you were listening to some War and Zevon on the way in. Um, there we go. He threw fireworks uh in school to disrupt events and assemblies. That one does sound fun. Uh, he describes himself from this time as right out of American graffiti and a tough guy. He also claims to have run with gangs. Although, as best as I can tell from the context, he means gangs in the sense that like he and his friends committed petty crimes. Not that he was in like an organized criminal organization,

bro. No, you didn't. No. You know what I'm saying? You and your friends drunkenly stole a motorcycle in Enid, Oklahoma. Sir,

tell me what turf you work in. You ran the one-stop sign. Yes. So once he was kicked out of high school, his caregivers sent him to Fork Union Military Academy in Virginia. Hilariously, in early interviews like the one with Parade Magazine, he told reporters that he chose to attend military school instead of going to high school. This is not true.

I don't know why he would do that because I'm like I feel like it fits the mystique of like, you know, like a militia guy. I got kicked out, sent to military right?

I had a little more hardcore than I chose. wanted to go to military. No, he he it was that or go to jail.

Head ass like nah, bro. Like, get kicked out. I thought you ran with a gang, homie. You know what I'm saying? You in a gang. You feel me? Like, yeah.

So, the academy does kind of turn Bo around. He ends his time there as the core commander during his senior year, which is the child who's in charge of the other children, basically.

Cool. Yeah. Awesome. Good idea. Depending on the interview, Bo claims he was either invited to attend West Point or he passed an entrance exam and was offered admission. I don't think either of these stories are true because West Point doesn't work that way. Applying to West Point isn't at all like applying to a normal university back then. And I think things are a little bit different today, but they're mostly that work the same way. You get in because you have to get a nomination from a member of Congress, right? Now, you can also be appointed by the president or vice president. But basically, everyone who gets into West Point gets nominated by a member of Congress. So, for Bose's story to be true, he would have had to write a member of Congress and convince them of his worth and then get accepted and then say, "Nah, actually, I don't want free admission to the most prestigious military university and a guaranteed

fast track in my career as an officer." No, thank you. Um, I think he's just lying about this. Yeah. At any rate, Bo doesn't bum around long after graduation. And this is also why I'm sure he's lying because he immediately joins the military. In 1957, he walks into an army recruiter's office. He is 18. He claims that when he's in there, he sees a poster of a Green Beret on the wall. And the poster read, "The Green Beret special forces are the world's toughest troopers." Now,

that doesn't sound true. No, it cannot in no way, shape, or form. Absolutely can't be true. So, the Green Beretss were founded in 1952 as US Army special forces. By 1957, some of these guys had started wearing Green Beretss in order to differentiate themselves from normal soldiers, but they weren't actually supposed to do that. And sometimes they got in trouble for it. And no official Army recruitment ad would have called the unit the Green Beretss because they weren't called that yet. Now,

it's a good thing we didn't make lying part of the drinking. No, no, no. Again, legally, we can't kill the audience yet. Um, again, give give two more years of legislation. I think we'll have that right. But, so, US Army special forces were founded as part of a general recognition brought on by certain events in World War II that the nature of conflict was changing. Military history has always had elite units who carried out special operations behind the lines. Or you could look at like the Greek soldiers and the Trojan horse as like an early reference to special forces kind of activity. And World War II featured commando units on both sides that carried out high-profile clandestine operations. So the US special forces began as an attempt to systematize the training and deployment of such commando teams for the first time. The idea initially with these guys was that they would they're not like Navy Seals are

today, right? The idea with the special forces that become Green Berets is that they would be stay behind guerrilla units in the event of a hot war with the Soviet Union. At that point in time, the discrepancy in conventional forces in Europe, the Soviets had a shitload of tanks. Yeah. NATO had somewhat less tanks meant that everyone's best assumption was that Soviet forces would steamroll through large portions of Western Europe before there could be any hope of NATO stopping them. And thus, you wanted to have a bunch of special forces guys behind the line to train resistance cells, organize and execute attacks to disrupt the enemy's rear.

Right. That's the idea. So, this is this is way to make sure this is post World War II.

Yes, we're talking the 50s. 57 is when Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Unless you're like a history nerd. I don't I I I don't I don't think we and in our era appreciate just how badass like Russia was.

Oh yeah. I mean like they they were some ass kickers. They had a lot of tanks at the end of that war.

They was some ass kickers. Yeah. Um so in 1957 when Bo first claims to have seen that poster he definitely didn't see. Uh that was the first year that Green Berets were deployed to Vietnam. So again there wasn't like anything to brag about them doing yet. like they have a reputation now for doing all sorts of crazy [ __ ] but they had just started going to Vietnam and which I think was their first official combat deployment. If you've ever heard that US involvement in Vietnam started with US advisers going over to train the South Vietnamese army, that's at least like a big chunk of what they're talking about are the what becomes the Green Berets.

Yeah. So Bose's version of the story, which definitely isn't true, is that he asks the army recruiter, "What do the Green Beretss do?" And that guy answers, "They go out in the woods, live off bark and lizards, snoop around, blow up bridges, and garro people.

They live in huts with browns with Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Bo immediately responds, "That's for me." Again,

they've only ever been deployed before Vietnam to Europe. They're not eating lizards in [ __ ] Italy. Like, sorry, that's not what they they weren't famous for anything at this point of time. Certainly not this. Um, I kind of doubt he was thinking at all about the Green Berets when he enlisted. The unit didn't even officially start wearing Green Berets until 1961 when President Kennedy made it a part of their uniform. In 1957, US special forces hadn't really done anything special yet. Their first Oh, yeah. I already said that. Anyway, that interview with Parade goes on, quote, "Although they only accepted sergeants and above, Bo was admitted contingent on his passing all the schools. These included regular basic training, advanced individual training, parachute and special forces courses that teach unconventional warfare. And again, I mean, that's true about the things you have to do to be a Green

Beret, but I don't think Bo entered with any special deal because he doesn't he has a normal military career for years before he gets into the Green Berets. And in fact, he gets This is wild. Court marshaled twice in basic training.

See? Yeah. I was going Listen, I was going to say twice. Twice. I was going to say he was thinking what most recruits think, which is

poverty, right? Like, you know, I want some money. Poor. Yeah. You going to pay for school? You going to give me somewhere to live. They're basically going to give me socialism.

I'm going to go into the army. You going to give me socialism? Yeah. I certainly don't think he was planning on eating lizards.

I at all. Yeah. Um, so, uh, yeah, he doesn't. He gets court marshal twice in basic training. I wish I knew what for. I just don't have that information. Um,

try because he was trying to start a gang because he's just like he might have been horse stealing Jeeps.

Stealing Jeeps. He's going to steal start a gang and after Westside eat it. You know what I'm saying?

What, bro? I mean, ironically, US special forces today often operate exactly like running illegal drugs and murdering other special forces guys. You find them running illegal drugs.

Who knew? Then actually a green beret got murdered by some Navy Seals a couple years ago as a result of a bunch of drug [ __ ] Fun story. Anyway,

we'll talk about them later. After basic training, Bo was recommended to go to officer candidate school. And I this is interesting. I don't know why he got picked out. It's fairly rare for that to happen um because he didn't have any college experience. But he passes. He gets commissioned as a second lieutenant. And somewhere around this time, also in 1957, he marries his first wife, Dolores Benediti. And while he was starting his military career, the couple has two children. They're not really that important to talk about because he is going to abandon them at the first possible. HE IS THIS IS A CLASSIC family abandoner. I'm sorry. You hear a man's name is Boes. First thing you know is that that man has abandoned at least one family.

Yeah. Like like his mom. Like his mom. Yeah. is generational. Dang, I learned it from you, mom.

I learned it by watching you. Ah, that's a good one. Generational [clears throat] trauma.

That's his smoking pot is abandoning his family. Exactly. Oh, passed down from generations.

How do y'all get that reference though? I learned it from watching. No, no, no. Yeah,

y'all don't get that. Those were anti-drug ads from back in the day. So after OCS, Bo goes to Ranger School and he does well enough in Ranger school that he gets promoted steadily throughout the early 1960s, reaching the rank of captain by 1963. In 1965, he joins the Green Beretss. So again, he claims in 57 I knew what I wanted to be. I think the reality is his career just went along and eventually this became an option for him. And what for whatever reason, he decided to lie about that later. Uh he gets deployed to Vietnam in 1965 and he recalls being excited for the opportunity to quote go out and hit something

other than his own eye, right? Other than his own eye with a BB. Yeah. Yeah. Hit is interesting like not shoot like so you and he he actually he does hit people to death. So I don't know but he knew what he wanted. Bo was not among the very first Green Berets deployed to the country, but by the time he got over there, the mission that the US was involved in had expanded beyond training the South Vietnamese army to I mean a bunch of [ __ ] But the Green Berets were operating mobile guerilla forces of different local fighters in dark zones of Vietnam and the surrounding countries where US forces were not supposed to be.

Right? A lot of these guys wind up in Lao. They're not supposed to be in Lao, but they they're there. Um, so he splits up with his wife somewhere around this point and he hooks up with a woman that he describes most often in interviews as quote an ethnic Chinese former prostitute.

This words, this man, I figured that as soon as you said first wife, I was like uh-huh, that man went down to the jungle.

Y he was like, yo, they come like this like Yeah. He's always really specific about the ethnic Chinese part. I think just because he didn't want anyone to think he had like married a Vietnamese woman. Like that was very important to Bo for reasons that I probably don't need to get into. Also, I'm guessing she wasn't a former prostitute when they met. That's just my theory here. But given that he's a soldier in Vietnam in 1965. Um

but at least he was supporting sex workers. He was. Yeah. Oh yeah. We stand. We stand. We stand. Yeah.

Listen, man. There's always some sort of redeeming quality. So there you go. There you go.

Low bar for this one. Real low bar. Low bar for Bo here. Yeah. Yeah. This will be Yeah. So one thing you got to give Bo other than that is that he was very good at being a Green Beret. He's in fact one of the best to ever do it. He claims to be the most highly decorated Green Beret commander of the entire war. And this is probably true. He ultimately received more than 60 citations for valor, including both silver and bronze stars. Bose's descriptions of his time in Vietnam are harrowing reading. At one point, a Vietkong fighter rises up out of a tunnel and tries to shoot him at point blank range range and G only survives because the ammunition in the man's weapon was bad and failed to fire.

One of the stories we get of Bo comes from General William West Morland's memoirs. And if you know West Morland, he was like he's if you're going to blame Vietnam on a military leader in the US, West Morland's the guy you blame, right? I think there's a couple of guys ahead of him like LBJ and whatnot, but West Morland is responsible for a lot of why Vietnam is the [ __ ] nightmare that it is, right?

And it says a lot about both Bo and West Morland that West Morland like signal like singles Bo out as like an example of this guy was one of our best. This is like one of the absolute like the dudes who was really doing it right. And again, maybe that's why we lost the war. I don't know. Um,

is this your kid? So, West West Morland writes in detail about one of Bose's missions, which is this US spy plane has crashed in the Cambodian jungle. Right now, writing for the Washington Post, Art Harris summarizes, "Washington was desperate to retrieve the black box containing top secret codes. It had failed to self-destruct if it got into VC hands. Moscow might be the next step. There was only one hang-up. Nobody knew exactly where the plane was. Choppers dropped off Grits and his team, and they fanned out on foot, hacking their way through vines, snaking along elephant trails, setting booby traps to protect their rear, ambushing and getting ambushed. On the fourth day out, around Christmas of 1966, they stumbled on the U2 wreckage.

The black box was gone. VC sandal tracks led off into the bush. He set up an ambush. kill every man except the first two. He ordered Gritson and another sergeant would take care of them in handtoand with zappers or CIA issue spring steel billy clubs. Now

that actually would kind of sounds epic. I ain't going to hold you a dope movie. Look, it it's a good scene in a movie. Nobody's denying that. I have some questions. First off,

why did the CIA have to issue them billy clubs? Why did the CIA need to make clubs to hit people with?

I mean, I'm not questioning like why would the CIA want people beaten to death. I'm questioning why did they have to make the like I feel like I could make a steel club.

You can make You can You're in the jungle. You can make whatever you want. I have a question. Why is your chair backwards?

I'm I'm Rikering, Sophie. Thank you. Yeah. Let's give it up. COMMANDER WILLIAM RIKER. COME ON. There we go. There we go. You're

I support the troops. So, you're really quick with that answer. I'm super impressed.

We've been doing this a long time. It's like my back tattoo says ABR, baby. Always be Riker.

Oh, so Jesus Christ. Some sort of like was trying to give him alcohol. School counselor. Yeah. Okay.

So, other questions I have. Why were they called zappers? They're just clubs to hit people with. Also, did the special forces need the CIA to give him the idea to beat men with metal clubs? These are the questions that keep me up at night. Anyway, that patrol shows up and Bosemen shoot them to pieces. Grites rushes his target and hits him, but he kills him immediately. Just just kills the guy with a club. There is a prisoner that they've taken, but he's defiant and so he had to be executed. And here's where you can drink your first war crime drink cuz you are not supposed to execute prisoners

cuz they're defiant. Defiant. Yes. Pissed that you killed his friends and captured him. That's pretty natural.

He ain't going to tell us nothing. Go kill him. Now get ready for another war crimes drink because Gres was forced that they both the guys they tried to take alive. They have now killed. But one of the wounded Viet one of the w the Vietkong fighters that they had thought they'd killed was just wounded, right? And so they decide to convince this guy to help them. And they they do that by they show him they use a mirror to show him the shrapnel embedded in the back of his skull. And they're like, "Hey man, you need medical attention right away. And we can't give it to you unless you help us out. So if you don't help us, you're dead." Right? So, this guy agrees to lead them to the base where the black box had been taken. And to make sure that he abided by the terms of the deal, Bo attaches C4 to the prisoner's neck and uses a detonation cord and uses a detonation cord as a leash to walk him

around. Let's have another war crime drink now. Yeah, that's you're Wow. Again, you're not supposed to do this. I was gonna one of my questions as soon as he said kill everybody but two of them. I was like okay so how do you know which two because you might have killed the one that was ready to snitch. You know what I'm saying? And but you don't know that if you just walk up and be like I'm just going to pick the two. You know what I'm saying?

Part of Green Beret training is learning like what guy looks like he's best at talking. Don't shoot him as much.

Which one of y'all look like some snitches? Just grenade that guy a little bit. He looks like he's got a talking mouth.

Yeah. So, hey, hey, hey, homie. You got somebody back home you love? Okay, cool. Keep him alive cuz he going to snitch.

That guy looks like he's got a family. You got a family. You f to snitch. You don't know nobody. You can kill him.

So, again, several war crimes down here, but the mission is successful. I'm sorry. I'm from the hood.

I don't know why I know stuff like that. I'm sorry. Anyway, go ahead. So, the mission succeeds, which is why West Morland writes proudly about it in his memoir, even though I might be like, maybe maybe don't highlight all the war crimes. I don't know if I'm if I'm if I'm given notes, right? Which I'm not. Um, so the whole thing highlights an important fact, right? Which is that modern American worship of special forces operators begins as a distraction, right? That's why Wes Morland is talking about this, devotees so much time to it, and that's why B is going to get that's why the Rambo movies are such a big deal, right? is because after Vietnam, the US Americans are pretty clear, oh, we're not getting into good wars anymore. Like that one time, like that was that was pretty fun and it it seems like a lot less fun these days, but we have these guys who are really well trained to do all this cool stuff

and they look awesome and like they can do really impressive things. They're not winning us wars. Like him finding this black box didn't help Vietnam. Like the wars still didn't go very well. It was it was also very a pretty The last one we had was a pretty clear like good versus evil type vibe,

right? The whole World War II thing. You're not doing that anymore. Easy one. This one you're like, "Wait, why? Why is we there again?"

So, but we're here and we're not winning. So, people are like, so it becomes a lot easier like, well, let's celebrate how cool these guys are, right? In lie of celebrating, you know, the good cause that we're doing or like the fact that the war has gone very well, you know? Um, and so Bo is kind of at the very first wave of special forces obsession in the United States, which is something that has really like come to a head during the global war on terror, right? If you look at like movies set in that period of time, they're a lot likelier to focus on like a special forces unit because you can have them do some kind of rad cooling mission and sort of ignore that like, well, that everything else was a lot messier and didn't work quite as well. But zero dark 30. Hey.

Yeah. There's also like a I don't want to belver this point too too long, but I think that there's a good way as like as far as like some of the science I use for like social commentary or or even you know when I did teach high school um was like you always know what's going on if you want to understand what was going on in a time period. Just look at who the villain was in a movie.

You know what I'm saying? Oh yeah. And like this one. So right now, like every show, streaming show, every action movie right now, what's the villain?

A tech billionaire. You see what I'm saying? Right. Right. You know what I'm saying? But before that, you know, during

before that it was like some sort of ter some sort of Middle Eastern terrorists. You know what I'm saying? So like you always know what's going on in the world.

You had a lot of late 90s, so right before 911, a lot of like militia literally trying to kill me after trying to kill us. I said, you know what I'm saying like seven times? So anyway,

I apologize. I'm bringing up the special forces stuff just to to kind of set the zeitgeist, right? Which is that Bo is going to really benefit personally in his celebrity from the idea that Americans have kind of switched gears to like, so what if we don't win wars anymore? We look really cool while we're losing, you know. So Bo himself later stated of his time in Vietnam, "We got paid for bringing them back, dead or alive. We laid mines like sewing seeds. Among my greatest satisfactions in life, other than sex, was hearing the boom in the night. I'd turn over in my hammock after boom and chuckle. Got another one.

Cool guy. Cool guy. Other than sex. I'm glad he let us know that. You know, that's a bar, Bo. Thanks.

Thanks, Bo. So, no, when I make the joke that men used to go to war, I didn't mean this guy.

Yeah. I mean, unfortunately, Sophie, we've always been this. That's Oh, yeah. I'm sorry.

I mean, look. Yeah. Would I set landmines if I had landmines and the legal? Sure. Of course. Who wouldn't want a couple of landmines, you know?

Listen, keep the raccoons out of your yard. A keep the chickens out of your yard. Keep the dogs. Keep yourself out of your yard. You know,

I draw the line at the dogs. Mhm. Hey, but listen, but the great thing about landmines is they don't discriminate.

And the thing is it would you would only need just one dog and after that the rest of dogs are smart.

The rest of them would know. See? Yeah. Yeah. This has been a paid sponsorship for the coalition for civilian landmine ownership. You can find a donation bin up at the front.

Also, spay and neuter your dogs. Yeah. Spay and neuter your dogs or let the land mine do it. You know,

Bob Parker. So, we got so many more pages. You go. The US pulls out of Vietnam in 1973. Uh, and Bo transitions to commanding all US sports. Uh, all US Porsches. Bo transitions to commanding all US special forces in Latin America, a job he held from 1975 to 1977. And that's not like quite the peak of US war crimes in Latin America, but it's not at like the low point, right? Like it's like the upper third of US war crimes in Latin America periods, I think we can say.

Um so maybe take a drink there. We'll just assume, right? This is all We'll just assume some [ __ ] in in Costa Rica, El Salvador.

One um he retire. He retires in 1979. Although that was not quite the end of his time working for the US government. And this is a rare case where Bo is telling the truth and someone else is lying because the US government says that was the end of him working for us. And Bo says, "No, it wasn't." Because after the USSR invaded Afghanistan at the end of 1979, the State Department hired Bo to help train the mujaheden. They flew Afghan fighters to San

This is too close, man. Like it's too close. They flew Afghan fighters to Sandy Valley, Nevada. Well, where where Bo taught them to use armor-piercing ammunition against Soviet vehicles carrying VIPs.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. If I'm getting If I'm from Afghanistan,

you better not fly me to Nevada, FAM. COME ON. THEY THERE HAS TO HAVE BEEN one night where Bo and the Muja Haden all hit Fremont Street.

One night where THEY'RE AT THE I MEAN I LAND IN Nevada and be like this this look like home. What is we this? Yeah. So um the US government denies that this happened, but Bo has footage of himself training a bunch of Afghan guys. They're setting off explosives in the desert. So, I'm going to go with the government's lying here. Like,

government would never lie. Yeah. Oh Sophie I have some bad news. We'll talk about that behind stage. So, decades later, for a 2021 Mystery Wire interview, Bo would insist that the specific men he trained were among the very last holdouts uh resisting Taliban control after the Taliban, you know, won and stuff. Uh, and there's no way for me to know if that's true. I don't think he knows. I don't think he kept track of names. I don't He's certainly not emailing with, "Hey, you still doing okay up there?" I think he just needed to tell himself that or wanted to tell the news that to sound cool. Anyway, another thing Bo needed to tell himself was that the US government had left behind a huge number of his comrades in Vietnam. He would later claim, without any evidence that I've seen, that he was tasked by the DIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency, with searching for PWs left behind after the withdrawal of

US forces. Now, if you've driven past a VA hall or a post office or some other government building or just a shitload of rural homes, you've probably seen at some point under a US flag a weird black flag with a silhouette of a dude's face in front of a guard tower and the words PMIA, you are not forgotten on it. Right? Most people you see, you're aware of these. We're about to talk about where this [ __ ] flag comes from, right?

Because this is our most conspiratorial flag in the United States. If that is a silhouette of B,

I'm knocking this table over. There's a funny story for whose silhouette that is.

I'm knocking all your drinks out of your hands if it's B. Okay. No. Um, so the idea behind this flag is that there's a and to this day the people who fly it tend to believe that there's a shitload of US servicemen still being held captive somewhere, right? where is less they'd be like 80 now if they were [ __ ] were from the Vietnam War, right? Um this is not true and it wasn't true by the late 1970s, right? But belief in this conspiracy theory that we'd left a bunch of guys behind and they were still in camps in Vietnam and we got to go rescue them. That became a widespread conspiratorial belief largely due to Bogue Wrights. He is a hu he's not the only one but he is a major major reason for that. Now, the flag itself that I just described was designed by a guy named Jeff Heisley in 1970. And when Jeff designs the flag, to be fair to Jeff, there were a bunch of USPs in North Vietnam. We were still fighting a

war, right? Of course, there were PS. That's how war works. The silhouette was based on a real guy, his son, who was 22 years old at the time, and not a soldier.

Now, he had tried to be a soldier. I'm sorry, what? Jeff, this is very funny. Jeff's son had been in officer candidate school for the Marine Corps, but he'd had to drop out because he caught hepatitis.

So, he was like sick and he lost like 40 lbs. So, he starved THE OPPOSITE OF, "HEY BUDDY, get on over here. I think your silhouette looks perfect for something."

Oh my god. It's big like it's big like Michelangelo like Jesus statue energy. It's giving like

and that's all over our country. It's all everywhere. Now every time you see one of those flags, you'll know where they came from.

So great. [ __ ] hepatitis awareness. So So great. Before Nixon's got elected, we didn't use the terms PMIA, right? I mean the P existed as a term but that was not what the military used officially. The terms used were KIA/BnR which meant killed in action body not recovered right and this was the term for this is not the term for if we knew someone was a P you'd call them a P. This was the term for guys who disappeared and we don't know that they died. We don't know what happened. And most of these guys had they just been you know they'd been blown up or something. There was not enough left to do a positive identity. some small number probably just like went awall like a couple of weirdos who like just like like there were a couple of guys in Korea who just like went to North Korea like that kind of stuff happened every now and then right and then some number of them you assume were captured and

were and this was happening at points in the Vietnam war and were being held right and they it the government just was not aware of their specific name right um so that's what we used to call it um and it's worth emphasizing that prior to 1969 the US government and specific Specifically, the Department of Defense wanted to discourage any talk about US servicemen being imprisoned by the enemy. This was some not just a Vietnam thing. This hap existed beforehand, but it was it really became heightened in Vietnam. And so when like the military would tell someone that like, "Hey, your your kid or whatever is missing," they would also tell them, "Keep quiet about it. They might still be alive. Don't tell anybody." Right?

Which is kind of a [ __ ] up thing to like absolutely not, MAN. YOU'RE LIKE, "WHAT? That's really [ __ ] crazy." Um, per an article in Time by Heath Lee, quote, "If the women dared to discuss it, their government warned them the men might be badly treated or even executed. With this heavy burden to bear it, the women were supposed to go about their daily existence, telling no one what they were up against. Supposedly, this would help bring the men back home safely." The policy.

Yeah. What is the how? This policy had been applied to prisoners and missing troops in previous wars and was one President Lyndon B. Johnson would adhere to during the Vietnam War. The US government tried to use its well-worn template of quiet diplomacy to reason with the North Vietnamese. Now, this is very [ __ ] up. Uh, and you might think that it's a good thing that the Nixon administration changed course and like, well, at least now we're admitting like these guys are captured or missing, right? Like that's an improvement over telling their families to lie, right?

But this is Dick Nixon we're talking about. This change was not made out of compassion. It was made for an even more [ __ ] up reason. As H. Bruce Franklin outlines in his book MIA, Mythmaking in America, which is a great book about this exact subject. The Nixon administration changed courses because this was they wanted to get Americans to back a disastrous war, right? They wanted to build support for Vietnam, which was fading. And in May of 1969, Defense Secretary Melvin Leard admitted for the first time that some 1300 Americans were MIA and as many as half might be PWs. And this is when the use of the term really changed. As Nathan Smith summarized in an article for the outline, this transformed the war from a political issue into a humanitarian one, trading public support for sympathy. It didn't matter why we were there in the first place. Our boys were there, and by God, we were going to do anything to get

our boys home. Right? So that's why we're there. I feel like the the the Okay, far be it for me to try to tell the US government how to do their branding and marketing pitches. I just feel like for you to tell me in a war I already didn't want to be in. Now you admitting what we already knew, which is Earl Earl's son ain't came home yet while everybody else's son came. So now you want to admit it and you telling me that's a justification for your I would be like my G. It sound to me like we shouldn't have never [ __ ] been there. Maybe my son would be home. I'm sorry.

I know you're angry. I know you're angry that all these people are dying and that we're fighting this war. But look, we have to keep fighting the war. Otherwise, the guys that we sent to the war might not come home from the war.

Don't make no damn sense. See the logic? There's a lot of logic there. Don't make no damn sense. I'm just saying maybe you should stop fighting a war.

You can't be a prisoner of a war that ain't happening, sir. I bet if we left they'd give the guys back.

I bet you if we left anyway cuz they probably don't want to keep them. I BET. LOOK. AND AT THIS POINT,

THAT WINNING THEM. And at this point, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Um, so the first group to prove how much money there is in this newly created conspiracy theory was a student organization, Viva or Voices in Vital America. One of the worst acronyms I go,

just as a heads up, just [ __ ] dog [ __ ] at all. Now, Viva started out selling nickel bracelets in the early 1970s with the names of missing servicemen engraved in them. Celebrities would buy one to be spotted supporting the troops and giving something back without doing anything. Yes.

Live strong, right? Yes. Strong only pro war. Yeah. Yeah. Now then the war ended, right? And Vietnam returned the prisoners they had because, you know, why wouldn't why would they keep these guys past a certain point? You know, there were negotiations. There were things they wanted. It doesn't happen immediately, but there's a congressional inquiry in 1976 to try and make sure, did we get everybody? Are there some guys left or not? Right. So, this

that's nice of them to check, right? You should double check that. Did we leave a guy or two behind? It's like looking for your keys after you set up at the bar, you know? But like with 700 guys who got shot down for bombing Hanoi, you know?

I'm pretty sure Vietnam would know though. It was like, "Y'all see any white people?"

Look, do my friends always notice if I lose my wallet in their couch? Yeah, pilots are a lot like that.

Listen, I'm just saying go back into the prison and be like, "Hello." Hey, anybody here?

Anybody here? Ain't nobody here, G. Like, I think we're good. I think we're good. I don't know where they went after they left here. I'm just saying they not here.

Right. So, there's this inquiry in 1976 and Congress concludes we they're all there's not any guys still over there, right? There's no more USPs in Southeast Asia. But a certain number of Americans could not get over their rage at losing a war and refused to accept that the hundreds of men who were still missing an action were just dead, right? And not being kept in a secret prison camp. And when it comes to like the families, obviously I I I don't blame like someone for like not wanting to believe their dad's dead or whatever. But on a societal level, this is just a delusion.

You know, it's an open question as to whether or not Bog Wrights ever believed there were hundreds, some said thousands of Americans still being held prisoner in Vietnam or if he just saw it as fertile soil for a grift. Now, I am inclined to believe the latter explains some of his logic that it's a grift, right? Because in the early 1980s, he starts traveling around and giving speeches about how there's all these guys left over there. We are my brothers are still behind the line being held by the the North Vietnamese and we've got to free them, right? And you know, since the government's not going to do it, you know, they're they're corrupt. They're laid, you know, and then the cowardly media's convinced everybody keeping troops in Vietnam is a bad idea, I'm going to bring them back. I'm going to put together a squad, a hardnosed badass.

A gang, you might say. A gang, you might say. So that's the Rambo. That's I was like, "Please connect these dots." Okay, got it.

If you just give me some money, I'm totally going to put together a volunteer force of American veteran commandos and we're going to return to Southeast Asia and we'll find proof that Americans are still being held captive there. And that'll force the government to, I guess, reinvade Vietnam,

right? He just wants to commit more war crimes. He just he just didn't get enough Vietnam, you know? It's it's the again like sometimes you know you go to the buffet you don't get enough plates you know it's like that but with

I've been to a buffet with you you get enough plates get enough plates right and I would argue the United States had more than enough Vietnam

got plenty of plates should have cut them off a while back shouldn't shouldn't have even gone into that buffet

golden corral right don't even go in B starts touring is there golden corral up Are there? No, no, no, no.

There's a couple. Although, if you ever want to, I did this when I was like 22 years old and [ __ ] coming down from a shitload of acid. Like, you and your equally young, equally coming down on acid friends, coming into a Golden Corral at 6:00 in the morning cuz you haven't slept the night before. The looks you get from the Golden Corral regulars, beautiful, beautiful experience. I recommend it to everyone. The show is not sponsored by Golden Corral, but maybe it should be

yet. So B starts touring the country. He starts guesting on different TV shows. He starts speaking at churches and at veterans organizations. He starts taking donations.

Why do we let them do this? How did he get to the stop him? But how did he get to the TV though? Oh, because Oh, cuz he's a famous

He's a famous He's one of He's a great I was like yo and it's it sells right on TV. the like there's a bunch of men trapped, you know, your cit fellow citizens trapped, you know, and he's Bo was charismatic.

Was he handsome? I would not say so, but that's an opinion uh that people can have or not have on their own. You know, it's not my job to tell you which war criminals are hot.

Yes, it is. I beg to differ. That's literally your job. Do I have a short list of really hot war criminals? Listen, at this point, were we at home, you would have pulled up some sort of picture

that we would try to describe on the You cut that you you forced me to cut that 28 minute degression out of the pole pot. So,

I don't know what to do. I'm sorry. Should have called him pole hot. Am I right?

POT. THAT'S ALL, FOLKS. THANK YOU SO MUCH, MAN. IT'S BEEN A GOOD ONE. WOW. MHM.

WOW. That's such low hanging fruit. Like, how have we never thought of that? Yeah. After that, turn your chair around.

Yeah. Why? I don't know. It's been bothering me the entire time. Sorry. Some of us remember again the troops. Um, just one.

Well, because one part one one version of Riker was left behind after a transporter accident, which is how his transporter clone came to be. Yes.

Some people know their history. Thank you. Clap for him. Yeah. Yeah. Let's give Let's give a real big round of applause for the Riker that joined the McKe. There we go. Yeah.

Big Reich. Okay. All right. So, this is madness. B starts touring. Uh he goes all around. He's he's taking donations. He's given lots of interviews. He's getting on TV all the time. And he's telling stories about his time in Vietnam to get like the saddest stories he has, right? Because the more emotional people are, the more willing they are to give him money for this stupid [ __ ] And his favorite go-to story is the tale of a real guy, Sergeant George Hogland. George was a Green Beret, a comrade who Gres said had been wounded during an ambush. And so Grite says, you know, Hogland gets wounded and me and some other guys, we have to run back and we're trying to rescue him, right? And Hogland being such a hero realizes that his teammates are going to die in this ambush if they try to save him. And so in an act of utter selflessness, Hogland puts his own AR-15 to his head and quote pulled the trigger, eliminating the need

for us to be there. That's what Bose says. Now this would actually certainly be a shocking and sobering story of sacrifice if any of it were even slightly true.

Yeah. Now, the problem is Bo has chosen to lie about a real dude who really died and who he had not served with, but other guys had. Most of the press when for for a long time he gets away with this cuz most journalists are like, "Well, he's a Green Betray. He must be telling the truth. He wouldn't lie about another Green Beret. That'd be [ __ ] up." Um, thankfully, the Washington Post was still the real newspaper back in the 80s. And Art Harris Art Harris reached out to Chuck Heiner, who was one of two members of Hogland's squad who survived the actual ambush that killed Hogland.

And Heiner claimed, quote, Gres wasn't even on that goddamn team. I was with George when he died. He just got blown away. Must have taken 150 rounds. Very dead.

Damn. Yeah, that's a lot of debt. They were not sad enough. They were not taking ch Yeah, right. That's pretty pretty bad. Now, this is the kind of lie that shouldn't have even taken an interview to bust. My first thing would have been like, "Wait, so this guy got wounded and then he shot himself in the head with an AR-15?"

Like, for one thing, they usually have like pistols, right? Seems a little overkill.

It's just It's just weird that he'd lie about this specifically, right? Um, and I think the weirdest

But like, why? You have real good stories. You have such good stories already. Yeah,

cuz men lie. Men lie. Well, yeah. And Bo and Bo is a compulsive liar, right? Like, he's someone who absolutely cannot control it. And what matters most to him isn't the truth. It's continuing to live as if he were a movie protagonist long after he'd gotten too old and slow to continue shooting people for the government. Now, folks, we're going to continue this story, don't you worry. and we're going to continue and conclude with a Q&A to let you guys ask some questions and whatnot, but we're going to take an intermission because that's a thing that we do here. So, go get yourself a drink, use the restroom, buy some t-shirts.

There's merch, t-shirts, stickers, merch to support the Portland Defense Fund. Um, and then in a couple of minutes, we will come back and we will learn more about Bo Gry, who I think is going to become a good guy by the end of this. I don't remember the remaining five pages of the script, but I

Turns out it's a Christmas episode. Who knew? Yeah. Yeah.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Part One: Behind the Bastards Live Show: The Ballad of Bo Gritz | BEHIND THE BASTARDS"?

In order: 0:00 Jason Petty, Portland Defense Fund, Sophie Lterman; 5:00 Almost Heaven, James Boes; 10:00 Washington Post; 25:00 Washington Post; 40:00 Bogue Wrights, Heath Lee, Jeff Heisley; 45:00 Benny (grandson of Benjamin Franklin), Dick Nixon, Lyndon B. Johnson, Viva or Voices in Vital America; 50:00 George Hogland; 55:00 Portland Defense Fund, Washington Post.

What is mentioned in this Behind the Bastards episode?

15 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Washington Post, Portland Defense Fund, Almost Heaven, Sophie Lterman, Jason Petty, James Boes. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Part One: Behind the Bastards Live Show: The Ballad of Bo Gritz | BEHIND THE BASTARDS"?

The episode runs 58 min; the transcript is about 10,845 words in 205 timestamped sections.

More from Behind the Bastards

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 7, 2026.