Powell Probe Sparks GOP Backlash | Balance of Power: Early Edition 1/12/2026

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Department of Justice, Federal Reserve, Donald Trump, Jay Powell
2. 5:00 – 10:00: Donald Trump, Federal Reserve, Bernie Moreno, Bloomberg
3. 10:00 – 15:00: Donald Trump
4. 15:00 – 20:00: Donald Trump, Bloomberg, Department of Justice, Jay Powell
5. 20:00 – 25:00: Donald Trump
6. 25:00 – 30:00: Bloomberg, Donald Trump
7. 30:00 – 35:00: Donald Trump
8. 35:00 – 40:00: Donald Trump, Rebecca Wasser
9. 40:00 – 41:39: Donald Trump

Notable quotes from "Powell Probe Sparks GOP Backlash | Balance of Power: Early Edition 1/12/2026"

• LIVE FROM WASHINGTON, D.C., THIS IS BALANCE OF POWER WITH JOE MATHIEU. JOE: JAY POWELL CLAPS BACK.

  about Jay Powell · at 0:06

• DELIVERING SUBPOENAS TO JAY POWELL. THREATENING A CRIMINAL INDICTMENT OVER HIS TESTIMONY ON CAPITOL HILL ABOUT THE BUILDING RENOVATIONS THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP PUT A HARD HAT ON TO GO VISIT THE CHAIR TO TALK ABOUT A COUPLE MONTHS AGO.

  about Donald Trump · at 0:57

• DRIVING FORCE IN GETTING THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO ISSUE THE SUBPOENAS. HE DID DISPUTE THE REPORT AND DENIED KNOWLEDGE IN AN INTERVIEW WITH BLOOMBERG TELEVISION EARLIER…

  about Bloomberg · at 2:34

• THE HOUSE FINANCIAL SERVICES CHAIR FRENCH HILL SAYING THIS IS AN UNNECESSARY DISTRACTION, APPEARING TO TAKE THE SIDE OF THE FED CHAIR AT THIS POINT. WE WILL HAVE TO SEE WHERE…

  about French Hill · at 3:38

• LOOKS LIKE A BERNIE MORENO BILL IS COMING TOGETHER IN A WAY THAT MAY BRING REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS TOGETHER.

  about Bernie Moreno · at 7:53

• WE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THIS WITH REBECCA WASSER, GEOPOLITICS TEAM LEADER. ARE WE SURE THAT IRAN CALLED, WHAT DO WE THINK THE OVERTURES INCLUDE? REBECCA: THEY ARE TRYING TO…

  about Rebecca Wasser · at 38:16

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Donald Trump — Person · 15 mentions · first at 1:03
• Jay Powell — Person · 3 mentions · first at 0:10
• Joe Mathieu — Person · 2 mentions · first at 0:10
  LIVE FROM WASHINGTON, D.C., THIS IS BALANCE OF POWER WITH JOE MATHIEU. JOE: JAY POWELL CLAPS BACK.
• Thom Tillis — Person · 2 mentions · first at 3:01
  IN A STUNNING STATEMENT, THOM TILLIS, RETIRING REPUBLICAN FROM NORTH CAROLINA, SAID THAT HE WILL BLOCK ANY OF PRESIDENT TRUMP'S NOMINEES UNTIL THE LEGAL MATTER IS RESOLVED.
• French Hill — Person · 2 mentions · first at 3:38
• Janine Pirro — Person · 1 mention · first at 2:22
  ATTORNEY GENERAL THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA JANINE PIRRO, LONGTIME ALLEY OF THIS WHITE HOUSE.
• Bill Pulte — Person · 1 mention · first at 2:31
  PEOPLE FAMILIAR TELL US THAT FHFA DIRECTOR BILL PULTE WAS A DRIVING FORCE IN GETTING THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO ISSUE THE SUBPOENAS. HE DID DISPUTE THE REPORT AND DENIED…
• Bernie Moreno — Person · 1 mention · first at 7:53
• Rebecca Wasser — Person · 1 mention · first at 38:16

Companies & orgs

• Federal Reserve — Company · 5 mentions · first at 0:46
  IT IS QUITE THE CONNECTION AS WE CONSIDER THE FUTURE OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIR, AHEAD OF OUR CONVERSATION WITH CONGRESSWOMAN DEBBIE DINGELL, WE WANT TO BRING YOU UP-TO-DATE…
• Bloomberg — Company · 5 mentions · first at 2:37
• Department of Justice — Company · 4 mentions · first at 0:53
  FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIR, AHEAD OF OUR CONVERSATION WITH CONGRESSWOMAN DEBBIE DINGELL, WE WANT TO BRING YOU UP-TO-DATE ON WHAT WE KNOW HERE WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE…
• University of Michigan Hospital — Company · 1 mention · first at 8:34
  BUT I AM IN THIS BECAUSE I HAVE THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN HOSPITAL. I HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE THAT I HAVE MET AND TALKED WITH OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS, THE HUMAN STORIES THAT ARE…
• Ford — Company · 1 mention

Full transcript with timestamps

0:06 LIVE FROM WASHINGTON, D.C., THIS IS "BALANCE OF POWER" WITH JOE MATHIEU. JOE: JAY POWELL CLAPS BACK. WELCOME TO THE MONDAY EDITION, AS THE FED CHAIR IS SERVED GRAND JURY SUBPOENAS BY THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT THREATENING A CRIMINAL INDICTMENT. WE WILL BRING A LAB REPORT IN JUST A MOMENT FROM THE WHITE HOUSE TO DISCUSS THIS AMONG OTHER ISSUES WITH DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSWOMAN DEBBIE DINGELL OF MICHIGAN. NEW CONCERNS THAT THE ICE SHOOTING IN MINNEAPOLIS COULD COMPLICATE THE DEBATE OVER GOVERNMENT FUNDING. IT IS QUITE THE CONNECTION AS WE CONSIDER THE FUTURE OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIR, AHEAD OF OUR CONVERSATION WITH CONGRESSWOMAN DEBBIE DINGELL, WE WANT TO BRING YOU UP-TO-DATE ON WHAT WE KNOW HERE WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE DELIVERING SUBPOENAS TO JAY POWELL. THREATENING A CRIMINAL INDICTMENT OVER HIS TESTIMONY ON CAPITOL HILL ABOUT THE BUILDING RENOVATIONS THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP PUT A HARD HAT

1:05 ON TO GO VISIT THE CHAIR TO TALK ABOUT A COUPLE MONTHS AGO. FED SERVED DOJ SUBPOENAS. PAOLO VOWS TO STAND FIRM. THE CHAIR COME IN AND EXTORTED EVERY MOVE, JUMPED IN FRONT OF A CAMERA YESTERDAY TO PUT OUT A VIDEO REBUTTAL. HERE IS WHAT HE SAID.

1:26 NO ONE, CERTAINLY NOT THE CHAIR OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE COME IS ABOVE THE LAW, BUT THIS UNPRECEDENTED ACTION SHOULD BE SEEN IN THE BROADER CONTEXT OF THE ADMINISTRATION'S THREATS AND ONGOING PRESSURE. THE THREAT OF CRIMINAL CHARGES AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE SETTING UP INTEREST RATES BASED ON OUR BEST ASSESSMENT ON WHAT WILL SERVE THE PUBLIC RATHER THAN FOLLOWING THE PREFERENCES OF THE PRESIDENT. JOE: THUS, HE SAYS, BEING PUNISHED FOR DOING HIS JOB. HE DID INVOKE THE PRESIDENT, WHO SAID HE DIDN'T KNOW THIS WAS COMING, LEARNED ABOUT IT JUST LIKE YOU DO. THAT IS WHERE WE START WITH TYLER KENDALL. WE WANT AN UPDATE FROM THE WHITE HOUSE BEFORE WE SPEAK TO THE CONGRESSWOMAN.

2:08 THE PRESIDENT HAS NOT SPOKEN PUBLICLY ABOUT THIS, HAS HE? TYLER: NOT YET, BUT HE DID TELL NBC NEWS OVERNIGHT BUT HE DIDN'T HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF THE INVESTIGATION. IT IS WORTH POINTING OUT THAT THE INVESTIGATION WAS GREETED BY THE U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA JANINE PIRRO, LONGTIME ALLEY OF THIS WHITE HOUSE. PEOPLE FAMILIAR TELL US THAT FHFA DIRECTOR BILL PULTE WAS A DRIVING FORCE IN GETTING THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE TO ISSUE THE SUBPOENAS. HE DID DISPUTE THE REPORT AND DENIED KNOWLEDGE IN AN INTERVIEW WITH BLOOMBERG TELEVISION EARLIER TODAY. BUT WE KNOW THAT HE WAS ON AIR FORCE ONE WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP OVER THE WEEKEND.

2:48 THERE ARE LOTS OF DIFFERENT THREADS WE CAN PULL ON HERE, BUT IF WE FOCUS ON THE WASHINGTON REACTION, WE ARE HEARING FROM MORE AND MORE LAWMAKERS AS THE DAY GOES BY. IN A STUNNING STATEMENT, THOM TILLIS, RETIRING REPUBLICAN FROM NORTH CAROLINA, SAID THAT HE WILL BLOCK ANY OF PRESIDENT TRUMP'S NOMINEES UNTIL THE LEGAL MATTER IS RESOLVED. HE SITS ON THE BANKING COMMITTEE WHERE THERE IS A MAJORITY FOR REPUBLICANS, SO HE COULD STALL A NOMINATION FROM GOING TO THE FULL FLOOR. WE MENTIONED EARLIER ON THE PROGRAM, IT APPEARS PAOLO IS TALKING WITH SENATORS IN REAL TIME. LISA MURKOWSKI CONFIRMED SHE SPOKE WITH HIM EARLIER THIS MORNING AND SHE IS NOW SUGGESTING THAT CONGRESS COULD LAUNCH ITS OWN INVESTIGATION INTO THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE'S INVESTIGATION.

3:38 THE HOUSE FINANCIAL SERVICES CHAIR FRENCH HILL SAYING THIS IS AN UNNECESSARY DISTRACTION, APPEARING TO TAKE THE SIDE OF THE FED CHAIR AT THIS POINT. WE WILL HAVE TO SEE WHERE THIS GOES FROM HERE BECAUSE THERE IS A VERY HIGH LEGAL BAR TO REMOVE A FEDERAL RESERVE OFFICIAL, A PROTECTION BOLSTERED BY THE SUPREME COURT JUST LAST YEAR. JOE: I'M LOOKING AT THE SCHEDULE FOR TODAY. HE DOES HAVE MULTIPLE EVIDENCE, IF THEY WANTED TO OPEN THEM FOR PRESS, WE COULD HEAR FROM HIM TODAY. LET US KNOW WHAT YOU LEARN. SO FAR, NOTHING PUBLIC ON THE SCHEDULE. TYLER: NOTHING YET.

4:20 HE IS MEETING WITH AN ARCHBISHOP, HAS SOMETHING ON THE SCHEDULE KNOWN AS SIGNING TIME. WE ARE WAITING TO SEE HOW THAT WILL EVOLVE. HE COULD OPEN UP SOME OF THESE EVENTS AS WE GET MORE DETAILS, BUT AS OF NOW, WE HAVE NOT HEARD FROM HIM TODAY. WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND, IT APPEARS THE ATTENTION IS REALLY SHIFTING TOWARD CONGRESS, WHAT LAWMAKERS COULD DO AGAINST THIS INVESTIGATION, AND THE FACT THAT THIS INVESTIGATION RESTS ON TESTIMONY THAT PAOLO GAVE TO CONGRESS, ALLEGATIONS THAT HE MISLED LAWMAKERS, AN ACCUSATION THAT HE HIMSELF DENIES. JOE: TYLER KENDALL ON THE NORTH LAWN AT THE WHITE HOUSE.

5:03 SIGNING TIME SET FOR 3:30 P.M.. SOUNDS LIKE AN OPPORTUNITY. HE PROMISED CONGRESSMAN DEBBIE DINGELL WOULD JOIN US AND SHE IS LIVE FROM CAPITOL HILL, A DEMOCRAT REPRESENTING MICHIGAN'S SIXTH DISTRICT. GREAT TO SEE YOU, CONGRESSWOMAN. THANK YOU FOR STANDING BY AS WE SET THINGS UP THIS HOUR. GREAT TO HAVE YOU BACK ON BLOOMBERG TV AND RADIO. IS THIS A STORY OF FED INDEPENDENCE OR RETRIBUTION, OR BOTH? DEBBIE: GOOD TO BE WITH YOU. I OBVIOUSLY DON'T HAVE ALL THE DETAILS. I AM PROBABLY LEARNING THINGS FROM YOU AND OTHER PEOPLE.

5:41 BUT I DEEPLY BELIEVE IN THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE, THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE CHAIR. WE KNOW THE PRESIDENT IS SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES IN RETRIBUTION. I SUSPECT THE STORY IS BOTH. I AM COMMITTED TO A SYSTEM OF CHECKS AND BALANCES THAT OUR FOREFATHERS ESTABLISHED WHEN THEY WROTE THE CONSTITUTION. WHAT WE ARE HEARING IS NOT SOMETHING THAT SHOULD MAKE ANYONE IN AMERICA FEEL GOOD. WE NEED AN INDEPENDENT FEDERAL RESERVE TO PROTECT OUR ECONOMY. JOE: IT SEEMS YOU ARE ON THE SAME PAGE AS FRENCH HILL AND EVEN THOM TILLIS NEXT-DOOR IN THE SENATE. DO YOU TAKE HEART IN THE CHAIRMAN OF FINANCIAL SERVICES CONGRESS AND UNNECESSARY DISTRACTION?

6:31 HE IS OBVIOUSLY NOT IN THE PRESIDENT'S CORNER ON THIS. DIDN'T DONALD TRUMP FIND A LINE IN THE REPUBLICAN HOUSE? DEBBIE: I THINK YOU'VE BEEN SEEING CRACKS IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS, WITH THE HEALTH CARE BILL LAST WEEK, AND IN THE WAR POWERS. PEOPLE ARE HEARING FROM OTHERS THAT THEY ARE UNHAPPY, SCARED. ON HEALTH CARE, MILLIONS OF AMERICANS CANNOT AFFORD IT, AND THEY ARE SPEAKING UP TO WHOEVER THEIR SENATOR OR CONGRESSMAN IS. A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE NOT ONLY WORRIED ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN VENEZUELA, BUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT INVADING GREENLAND, BOMBING MEXICO, GOING INTO CUBA -- PRESIDENT TRUMP CAMPAIGNED ON ENDING WARS, NOT STARTING WARS. WHEN I AM AT HOME, PEOPLE'S HEADS ARE SPINNING, THERE ARE SO MANY ISSUES THEY CARE ABOUT.

7:25 A LOT OF AMERICANS HAVE QUESTIONS AND ARE WORRIED. JOE: I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR MORE ABOUT THE DRIVE TO ADDRESS HEALTH CARE PREMIUMS, CONGRESSWOMAN. WE WERE ON CAPITOL HILL LAST THURSDAY EVENING WHEN I BELIEVE 17 REPUBLICANS CROSS THE AISLE TO VOTE FOR THE DISCHARGE PETITION TO REVIVE OBAMA CARE SUBSIDIES THAT EXPIRED AT THE END OF LAST YEAR. IT IS ON THE SENATE NOW. LOOKS LIKE A BERNIE MORENO BILL IS COMING TOGETHER IN A WAY THAT MAY BRING REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS TOGETHER. IF THAT PASSES, WITH THAT LEAD TO A CONFERENCE COMMITTEE, HOW DOES THIS BECOME A PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT BOTH CHAMBERS CAN ADDRESS? DEBBIE: IT OBVIOUSLY IS ON THE SENATE NEXT. I MET WITH THE REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC SENATORS LAST WEEK, HAD VERY CANDID DISCUSSIONS.

8:20 WE UNDERSTAND THERE HAS BEEN AGREEMENT THAT THERE WOULD BE A TWO-YEAR EXTENSION IN THE HEALTH CARE TAX CREDITS, A NUMBER OF OTHER ISSUES THAT ARE BEING WORKED ON. WE WILL HAVE TO SEE WHAT THE TEXT OF THAT BILL IS. BUT I AM IN THIS BECAUSE I HAVE THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN HOSPITAL. I HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE THAT I HAVE MET AND TALKED WITH OVER THE LAST FEW MONTHS, THE HUMAN STORIES THAT ARE THERE. PEOPLE ARE CRYING, PEOPLE ARE SCARED. PEOPLE ARE REALLY LIVING IN A WORLD WHERE THEY CANNOT AFFORD INSURANCE, LOOKING AT THE CHOICE BETWEEN FOOD ON THE TABLE AND WHETHER OR NOT THEY CAN GET HEALTH INSURANCE. I AM SOMEBODY WHO BELIEVES THAT WE, IN AMERICA, WE SPEND TWICE AS MUCH AS ANY OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED NATION IN THE WORLD AND HAVE WORSE HEALTH OUTCOMES. IF YOU ARE SICK, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO GO TO THE DOCTOR WHEN YOU NEED AND GET THE MEDICINE YOU NEED. I AM WILLING TO WORK WITH ANYBODY AND EVERYBODY, BUT OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS BROKEN

9:22 RIGHT NOW. I KNOW THERE ARE MEMBERS ON BOTH SIDES THAT WANT TO WORK TOGETHER ON IT. WE NEED TO BE DOING THAT NOW. JOE: BERNIE MARINO SAYS HE INTENDS TO GET 35 REPUBLICAN VOTES FOR AN EVENTUAL BILL. THAT WOULD BE VERY CONVINCING. THE PRESIDENT WOULD HAVE TO SIGN THAT, NO? DEBBIE: ON HEALTH CARE. I THINK THE PRESIDENT UNDERSTANDS THIS IS A MAJOR ISSUE FOR HIM. I WAS NOT THERE, BUT THERE ARE REPORTS FROM THE REPUBLICAN RETREAT LAST WEEK. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE PRESIDENT TOLD HIM TO BE FLEXIBLE. ANYBODY WHO IS OUT THERE, WHO DOESN'T HIDE FROM THEIR CONSTITUENTS KNOWS THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN AMERICA RIGHT NOW. JOE: I TELL YOU WHAT, THERE IS ALSO THE MATTER OF FUNDING THE GOVERNMENT. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SEE A CONNECTION BETWEEN THESE TWO, IF THEIR NEWS TO A DEAL ON HEALTH CARE, BUT I GET THE SENSE COME IN EVERY CONVERSATION WE HAVE WITH LAWMAKERS, THERE IS NO APPETITE

10:30 FOR A SHUTDOWN, SAVE A FEW OUTLIERS. THAT DOESN'T ELIMINATE THE IDEA OF SLEEPWALKING INTO A SHUTDOWN. BASED ON WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN MINNEAPOLIS, THE ADMINISTRATION DOUBLING DOWN ON ICE AGENTS FOLLOWING THE FATAL SHOOTING LAST WEEK, THERE IS A CONCERN THAT FUNDING FOR HOMELAND MAY BE BOGGED DOWN IN DEBATE OVER WHAT TOOK PLACE WITH ICE, SIMMER DEPLOYMENTS AROUND THE COUNTRY, AND WE SLIDE INTO A SHUTDOWN. WHERE IS YOUR HEAD ON THIS TODAY? DEBBIE: YOU ARE PROBABLY ACCURATE ON YOUR REPORTING BUT I WANT TO PUT THAT IN FURTHER CONTEXT.

11:05 THERE HAVE BEEN MANY DISCUSSIONS ABOUT HOW WE KEEP THE GOVERNMENT RUNNING. WE VOTED ON APPROPRIATION BILLS LAST WEEK IN THE HOUSE, WILL BE VOTING ON OTHER BILLS THIS WEEK. THEY ARE REACHING AGREEMENT. REPUBLICANS ARE BACKING OFF ON SOME OF THE DEEP CUTS THEY WANTED, WE ARE FINDING CONSENSUS. I THINK MOST APPROPRIATION BILLS ARE LIKELY TO GET PAST BY JANUARY 30. I WOULD TAKE HOMELAND SECURITY AND ICE AS A SEPARATE ISSUE. I THINK PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR ANSWERS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN MINNEAPOLIS. WHEN YOU HAVE A SENSELESS LOSS OF LIFE, YOU BECOME CONCERNED. WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE TRAINING? WHEN THE LAST WORD YOU HEAR A WOMAN SAY IS, IT'S OK, I'M NOT MAD AT YOU, AND SHE IS DEAD A MINUTE LATER, THAT BOTHERS A LOT OF PEOPLE.

12:02 A LOT OF QUESTIONS WILL BE ASKED. I DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN. I THINK ALL OTHER BILLS WILL GET PAST. IF I HAD TO GET THE PREDICTION, THERE IS NOT THE APPETITE, BUT IT IS LEGITIMATE FOR QUESTIONS TO BE ASKED. WE WILL HAVE TO SEE HOW THIS ALL PLAYS OUT, BUT THOSE QUESTIONS CANNOT NOT BE ASKED. JOE: YOU HAVE BEEN AROUND THIS BUSINESS FOR A MINUTE, CONGRESSWOMAN, THIS RORSCHACH TEST THAT WE ARE SEEING, NOT ONLY THE RUSH TO JUDGMENT, BUT THE PREDICTABILITY BASED ON PEOPLE'S POLITICAL AFFILIATIONS ON WHAT THEY ARE CONCLUDING FROM THESE VIDEOS.

12:39 HOW DANGEROUS IS THIS? DEBBIE: DANGEROUS. I WANT TO SAY, TOM HOMAN, WHO IS SEASONED -- PROBABLY DON'T AGREE WITH HIM ON MANY OF THE THINGS HE HAS SAID. THE FIRST THING HE SAID IS WE NEED A TRANSPARENT AND DEEP INVESTIGATION. SHE DIDN'T RUSH TO CLEAR ANYBODY, HE DIDN'T RUSH TO CALL ANYBODY A DOMESTIC TERRORIST. WE NEED TO FACTS. WE HAVE GOT TO START GETTING BACK TO FACTS. WE NEED THAT TRANSPARENCY. EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE SAFE, OK? THE IMMIGRATION DISCUSSION IS A SEPARATE DISCUSSION. BUT BEING SAFE ALSO DEPENDS ON PUBLIC TRUST. THOSE THAT HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO KEEP YOU SAFE. IT IS NOT CONTRARY TO SAY THANK YOU TO THOSE KEEPING US SAFE BUT ASK QUESTIONS WHEN SOMEBODY HAS -- SENSELESS IS A JUDGMENTAL ISSUE -- BUT WHEN SOMEONE HAS BEEN SHOT AND KILLED, YOU NEED TO ASK QUESTIONS. PEOPLE SAW THE VIDEOS.

13:52 FRANKLY, I WISH THE SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY HAD NOT RUSHED OUT THERE AND CALLED THIS WOMAN A DOMESTIC TERRORIST. SHE DIDN'T HAVE ANY MORE FACTS THAN I HAD. JUMPING AND NOT GETTING THE FACTS ARE DEEPLY DISTURBING, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE ANALYZED THE TAPES AND RAISE A LOT OF YOUR QUESTIONS. JOE: IT IS ALL AMPLIFIED BY SOCIAL MEDIA. YOU WORRY ABOUT THIS TREND ACCELERATING, THE RUSH TO JUDGMENT SEEMS TO GET FASTER EACH TIME. I NEED TO ASK ABOUT THE PRESIDENT TRIP TO MICHIGAN TOMORROW. HE IS BRINGING THE AFFORDABILITY MESSAGE BACK ON THE ROAD. THERE WILL BE A SPEECH AS I'M SURE WE WILL ALL BE LISTENING TO AND WATCHING IN DETROIT.

14:37 I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WILL BE THERE OR IF YOU PLAN TO WATCH IT, BUT HE WILL ALSO BE TOURING A FORD FACTORY TOMORROW ACCORDING TO THE PRESS SECRETARY. WHAT WOULD BE YOUR MESSAGE TO DONALD TRUMP BEFORE HE TALKS ABOUT AFFORDABILITY? DEBBIE: I HAVE BEEN AT THE LAST TWO DETROIT ECONOMIC CLUB SPEECHES THAT HE SPOKE AT. AT 2:00 TOMORROW, I'LL BE AT A HEARING ON THE AUTO INDUSTRY ON 12 BILLS, THREE OF WHICH ARE MINE, INCLUDING AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES. I AM DOING WHAT I'M SUPPOSED TO DO, WHICH IS TO PROTECT THE INDUSTRY THAT I REPRESENT. I WILL WATCH THE SPEECH.

15:15 BUT IF I WERE TO SAY ANYTHING TO THE PRESIDENT, I WOULD SAY, YOU NEED TO HELP TO KEEP THIS DOMESTIC AUTO INDUSTRY STRONG. WE HAVE BEEN A GLOBAL LEADER. THEY CANNOT CONSTANTLY BE A PING-PONG BALL. EVERY BUSINESS IN THIS COUNTRY NEEDS CERTAINTY. CARS ARE BECOMING TOO EXPENSIVE. I AGREE WITH THE PRESIDENT ON TARIFFS AGAINST CHINA. WE NEED A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD AND WE ARE NOT PLAYING ON A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD WITH CHINA. THEY ARE MANIPULATING THEIR CURRENCY, SUBSIDIZING THEIR PRODUCTS, USING SLAVE LABOR. BUT THIS INDUSTRY NEED CERTAINTY AND THEY HAVE NOT HAD IT. I WANT TO WORK WITH MY COLLEAGUES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE AND WITH THE PRESIDENT TO HAVE A STABLE ENVIRONMENT TO KEEP OUR DOMESTIC AUTO INDUSTRY AFFORDABLE AND A GLOBAL LEADER. JOE: I WANT TO HEAR MORE ABOUT YOUR BILL ON AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES.

16:07 I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE YOU BACK TO TALK ABOUT THIS. I KNOW THAT IS ONE OF THE BILLS THAT YOU'LL BE ADDRESSING TOMORROW. SAFEGUARDS FOR AUTONOMOUS VEHICLES COULD BE ONE OF THE BIGGEST STORIES OF THE NEW YEAR. GREAT TO HAVE YOU BACK, CONGRESSWOMAN DEBBIE DINGELL. GOOD TO SEE YOU. I HOPE 2026 IS TREATING YOU WELL SO FAR. I'M JOE MATHIEU. THIS IS "BALANCE OF POWER" AS WE BRING YOU VOICES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE. HELP FROM OUR POLITICAL PANEL NEXT. LANHEE CHEN AND JEANNE SHEEHAN ZAINO WILL BE HERE, AS WE FIND OUR WAY FORWARD ON A DAY IT HAS EYES ON JAY POWELL, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. MARKETS, TOO. THIS IS BLOOMBERG.

16:50 AS WE CONNECT THE DOT BETWEEN WASHINGTON AND WALL STREET EVERY DAY HERE ON BLOOMBERG TV AND RADIO. AS WE TURN OUR ATTENTION TO THE ARSENAL OF FREEDOM TOUR, AND ITS NEXT STOP. THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE CALLING IT AT THE PENTAGON, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, AND PETE HEGSETH WITH HIS OWN TRAILER OF SORTS, CLIMBING THE STAIRS TO THE JET TO SAY, NEXT STOP, TEXAS. THE REASON THAT WE ARE FOLLOWING THIS IS NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF PENTAGON POLICY. THE PENTAGON IS FRAMING THIS AS THE THIRD MAJOR SPEECH WHEN HE VISITS SPACEX TODAY OF HIS TENURE, A DIRECT FOLLOW-UP TO HIS SPEECH AT FORT MCNAIR LAST FALL.

17:40 YOU REMEMBER THE SPEECH ABOUT THE BEARDOS AND THE FATTYS. WE DON'T EXPECT THE SAME SPEECH AT THIS TIME BUT IT WILL BE A DIFFERENT CROWD AS HE SPEAKS TO THE RANK-AND-FILE OF ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT DEFENSE CONTRACTORS IN THE COUNTRY. IT HAS CREATED A WHOLE NEW CONVERSATION IN WASHINGTON ABOUT ELON THE POLITICAL OPERATIVE. HE WENT BACK TO TESLA, WAS DONE WITH POLITICS FOLLOWING DOGE, WAS GOING TO FOCUS ON THE BUSINESS AT HAND. HE'S BEEN SPENDING A LOT MORE TIME WENT DONALD TRUMP RECENTLY, APPEARING WITH THE SECRETARY OF WAR TODAY, MAKING US TO CONSIDER THE ON AND OFF AGAIN RELATIONSHIP WITH ELON MUSK IN THE ADMINISTRATION.

18:26 ELON, BECAUSE HE IS NOT VERY BUSY, HAS AGREED TO HEAD THAT TASK FORCE. IF HE HAS THE TIME. WOULD BE A GOOD ONE TO DO IT. PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS CEDED THE PRESIDENCY TO ELON MUSK. NO, NO. THAT IS NOT HAPPENING. BUT HE HAS DONE AN AMAZING JOB. ELON WILL NOT DO ANYTHING WITHOUT OUR APPROVAL. WE WILL GIVE HIM APPROVAL WHERE IT IS APPROPRIATE.

19:03 DO I EXPECT TO CONTINUE TO PROVIDE ADVICE? I HOPE SO. I EXPECT TO REMAIN A FRIEND, ADVISOR, CERTAINLY IF THERE IS ANYTHING THE PRESIDENT WANTS ME TO DO, I'M HAPPY.

19:18 YOU SAW THE WORDS HE HAD FOR ME. HE HASN'T SAID ANYTHING ABOUT ME THAT IS BAD. I WOULD RATHER HAVE HIM CRITICIZE ME THAN THE BILL BECAUSE THE BILL IS INCREDIBLE. JOE: THAT WAS SO LONG AGO, KAILEY LEINZ WAS SITTING NEXT TO ME. OF COURSE, THEY SLOWLY GOT BACK TOGETHER, AND NOW, THEY ARE IN FACT WORKING TOGETHER AGAIN BY WAY OF THE DEFENSE SECRETARY. MAYBE EVEN MORE. SPEAKING ON AIR FORCE ONE LAST NIGHT, THE PRESIDENT SAYING HE MAY CALL ON ELON MUSK TO DEPLOY STARLINK IN IRAN TO HELP ANTIGOVERNMENT PROTESTERS THERE. THIS IS WHERE WE START WITH OUR POLITICAL PANEL, THE REEMERGENCE OF ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT POLITICAL OPERATIVES IN THE LAST CAMPAIGN. JEANNE SHEEHAN ZAINO IS WITH US, DEMOCRACY VISITING FELLOW AT HARVARD KENNEDY'S ASH CENTER, ALONGSIDE REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST LANHEE CHEN OF THE HOOVER INSTITUTION. GREAT TO HAVE YOU HERE.

20:27 WE WENT THROUGH A LIGHT IN THE LIFE AND TIMES OF TRUMP AND MUSK. IS HE BACK? JEANNE: I UNDERSTAND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME HE IS APPEARING PUBLICLY ON STAGE WITH A SENIOR MEMBER OF THE ADMINISTRATION. REMEMBER THE OLD SONG, THE BOYS ARE BACK IN TOWN? THAT HAS BEEN RINGING THROUGH MY HEAD ALL DAY. THEY ARE REUNITED AND THE AMERICAN PARTY THAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT, THIS IS THE DEATH KNELL OF THAT, BUT THE PENTAGON ANNOUNCED HE WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT HOW HE CAN IMPROVE THE MANUFACTURING BASE IN THE DEFENSE SECTOR, HOW THE BUREAUCRACY OF THE PENTAGON HAS REALLY GOTTEN IN THE WAY OF THAT. I'M SO INTERESTED TO HEAR THAT BECAUSE OF COURSE WHAT ARE THE DETAILS?

21:13 THIS IS ON THE HEELS OF THE PRESIDENT ASKING FOR 1.5 TRILLION DOLLARS, 50% RAISE IN THE DEFENSE BUDGET, FOR A DEPARTMENT THAT HAS NEVER BEEN ABLE TO PASS A REALLY SIMPLE AUDIT. WHAT ARE THE SPECIFICS THERE? THE REALITY IS, HE IS RIGHT, IT IS A DISASTER OVER THERE, PARTICULARLY THE PROCUREMENT PROCESS. I AM HOPING TO DEFENSE SECRETARY WILL BE SPEAKING ABOUT HOW HE WILL IMPROVE THAT. JOE: THAT IS RIGHT. AN ADDRESS ON HOW PENTAGON BUREAUCRACY IS HOLDING BACK THE NATION AND HURTING FIRMS LIKE SPACEX. SO IS ELON MUSK, MAYBE NOT BACK IN THE ADMINISTRATION, BUT BACK IN THE FAMILY? LANHEE: I DON'T KNOW THAT HE EVER LEFT THE FAMILY, TO BE HONEST. HE IS SOMEONE WHOSE INFLUENCE -- HE WAS CHARACTERIZED AS A POLITICAL OPERATIVE.

22:16 HIS IMPACT GOES WELL BEYOND ANY OPERATIVE WOULD EVER HAVE. THIS IS SOMEONE WHO BRINGS A LOT OF ECONOMIC SUCCESS, CLEARLY SOMEONE WHO PRESIDENT TRUMP RESPECTS FROM BEING AN ECONOMIC SUCCESS STORY. IT IS INTERESTING, THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION THE SECRETARY WILL APPROACH TODAY IN TEXAS HAS MORE TO DO WITH THE EXPANSION OF THE AMERICAN INDUSTRIAL BASE, THE WAYS IN WHICH AMERICA WILL TRY TO BE A LEADER, NOT JUST IN TECHNOLOGY NECESSARY FOR KINETIC WARFARE, BUT ALSO POTENTIALLY FOR THE WARFARE OF THE 21ST CENTURY, TECHNOLOGICAL WARFARE, ETC.

22:58 I THINK WE WILL SEE SOME OF THAT CONVERSATION HAPPENING IN TEXAS AND OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL MONTHS. THIS IS AN INTERESTING MOVE, NOT SO MUCH BECAUSE OF ELON MUSK'S REEMERGENCE, BECAUSE IT DOES SIGNAL WHERE THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT IS GOING TO BE DIRECTING ITS ATTENTION OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL MONTHS AND YEARS IN TERMS OF PROCUREMENT, WHERE THE DEFENSE INDUSTRIAL BASE IS HEADED. JOE: JEANNIE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELON MUSK THINKS ABOUT THE PRESIDENT'S POST LAST WEEK, MAYBE HE ASKED THEM TO DO IT ABOUT THE DEFENSE CONTRACTORS. SPACEX IS MORE THAN A DEFENSE CONTRACTOR. THEY ARE INVOLVED IN ANY NUMBER OF CIVILIAN OPERATIONS, WORKING WITH NASA AND SO FORTH, BUT IT IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT COMPANIES TO FULFILL PENTAGON CONTRACTS. YOU REMEMBER LAST WEEK THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID IT IS NO LONGER APPROPRIATE FOR DEFENSE COMPANIES TO ISSUE DIVIDENDS OR BUY BACK THEIR OWN STOCKS WHEN THEY ARE BASICALLY WORKING WITH TAXPAYER FUNDING.

24:00 SPACEX IS PRIVATE BUT ONLY FOR NOW. IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE ONE OF THE BIGGEST IPO'S OF THE YEAR. IS ELON MUSK THE ONE GOING TO BE HOLDING BACK THE PRESIDENT ON THIS? JEANNE: I AM SURE HE WILL BE HEARING FROM THE PRESIDENT IF HE HASN'T ALREADY, OTHERS IMPACTED. THIS IS WHAT BECOMES PROBLEMATIC ABOUT HAVING SO MUCH RELIANCE, SORT OF A MONOPOLY. ELON MUSK HAS DONE TREMENDOUS IN SO MANY AREAS, THE UNITED STATES IS SO RELIANT ON HIM IN SO MANY WAYS, AS ARE OTHER COUNTRIES. LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN IRAN. THAT BECOMES PROBLEMATIC BECAUSE THEN YOU SEE WHAT CONFERENCE MAY BE GOOD POLICY FOR THE AMERICAN PUBLIC, YOU'LL GET PUSHBACK FROM PEOPLE LIKE ELON MUSK YOU ARE NEGATIVELY IMPACTED BY IT.

24:53 ABSOLUTELY, THE PRESIDENT WILL HEAR FROM HIM, AND WE MAY SEE THE PRESIDENT CHANGE HIS MIND. JOE: HAS A REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, DO YOU HOPE OR WORRY THAT ELON MUSK WILL OPEN THE POCKETBOOK, OPEN THE WALLET FOR CANDIDATES AND STOP FOR CANDIDATES IN THIS MIDTERM CYCLE? DO YOU WANT HIM IN FRONT OF AMERICANS? JEANNE: CERTAINLY -- LANHEE: CERTAINLY, IF HE ENDS UP GETTING INVOLVED WITH HIS PERSONAL FINANCES, SUPPORTING REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES, THAT HAS TO BE A NET POSITIVE IN TERMS OF THE RESOURCES HE BRINGS TO THE TABLE. THIS WILL BE A VERY COMPETITIVE ELECTION CYCLE.

25:31 IT WILL BE CLOSELY WATCHED. THERE ARE VERY FEW SEATS THAT ARE GOING TO DETERMINE MAJORITIES IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE, AND IT'S GOING TO BE EXPENSIVE. HE WAS SUCH A SIGNIFICANT PART OF THE 2024 CYCLE IN TERMS OF HIS CONTRIBUTION IN THAT WAY, I WOULD THINK REPUBLICANS AROUND THE COUNTRY ARE WATCHING CAREFULLY TO SEE HOW HE GETS INVOLVED. I THINK ULTIMATELY THAT INVOLVEMENT WILL BE SEEN AS A NET POSITIVE BY REPUBLICAN STRATEGISTS AS WELL AS BY REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY. JOE: WE ARE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION AS ELIZABETH WARREN DELIVERS A SPEECH TODAY AT THE NATIONAL PRESS CLUB AHEAD OF HER INTERVIEW HERE ON BLOOMBERG TV AND RADIO ON THE LATE EDITION OF "BALANCE OF POWER." SHE WILL BE WITH US AT 5:00.

26:16 A MESSAGE FOR HER OWN PARTY, AND IT IS BIG TENT. DEMOCRATS ARE DOOMED TO FAIL, SHE SAID, IN 2026, AND BEYOND, IF THEY DON'T STOP TIPTOEING AROUND DONORS AND EMBRACE A POPULIST ECONOMIC PLATFORM. JEANNE: SHE HAS A POINT. THE ENERGY ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE HAS BEEN THERE. WE HAVE SEEN THAT REPEATEDLY. I DON'T KNOW IF I HAVE TO SAY YOU HAVE TO FULLY EMBRACE THAT. WHAT I THINK YOU HAVE TO FULLY EMBRACE IS THE ISSUE OF AFFORDABILITY. NO MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY -- AND LANHEE WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW MUCH MONEY ELON MUSK MAY PUT INTO THESE MIDTERM RACES.

27:00 IT WILL BE WON OR LOST ON THE ISSUE OF AFFORDABILITY AND ECONOMY. POPULIST RESPONSES ARE NOT THE ONLY SOLUTIONS, BUT YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THAT MAN NOT BE DISTRACTED BY SO MANY OTHER THINGS HAPPENING IN THE WORLD. THAT IS WHERE THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES FOR DEMOCRATS. I'M VERY ANXIOUS TO HEAR FROM HER ON THAT, AS WELL AS ON THE JEROME POWELL ISSUE, SHE WILL HAVE A LOT TO SAY I'M SURE. JOE: IN OUR REMAINING MOMENT, AS PRESIDENT TRUMP CALLS FOR A CAP ON INTEREST RATES, GOES AFTER DEFENSE CONTRACTORS FOR DIVIDENDS AND STOCK BUYBACKS, BECAUSE ON INSTITUTIONAL INVESTORS TO BE BANNED FROM BUYING SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES, DO YOU WORRY THAT PEOPLE MAY HAVE TROUBLE TELLING DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS APART? LANHEE: THIS IS THE THING ABOUT POPULISM.

27:48 THERE IS A POINT AT WHICH THE LEFT AND THE RIGHT MEET. YOU ARE SEEING SOME OF THAT IN THE RECENT POLICY PRONOUNCEMENTS. ULTIMATELY, FOR THE PRESIDENT, IT WILL COME DOWN TO WHAT IS THE AFFORDABILITY AGENDA, IS THAT SOMETHING REPUBLICANS WILL EMBRACE? I THINK REPUBLICANS WILL HAVE TO DISTINGUISH THEMSELVES ON THAT METRIC, DEMONSTRATING SOME SORT OF COMMITMENT TO THOSE ISSUES. ON SOME OF THESE POLICIES, YOU WILL SEE RIGHT AND LEFT COME TOGETHER. JOE: IT IS LIKE A POLITICAL SCIENCE CLASS EVERY DAY HERE. WITH THE HELP OF LANHEE CHEN, JEANNE SHEEHAN ZAINO, THANK YOU.

28:25 MUCH MORE AHEAD ON "BALANCE OF POWER." ONLY ON BLOOMBERG TV AND RADIO. THANK YOU FOR SPENDING PART EVERY MONDAY WITH US HERE ON "BALANCE OF POWER." IT WAS ON FRIDAY THAT WE WERE TALKING OIL HERE WITH REGARD TO VENEZUELA, REMEMBERING THE BIG MEETING THAT TOOK PLACE AT THE WHITE HOUSE WITH THE CEOS FROM THE OIL MAJORS. I BELIEVE 17 MAJOR OIL CEOS IN THE EAST ROOM WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP, VICE PRESIDENT, SECRETARY OF STATE, AND SECRETARY OF ENERGY CHRIS WRIGHT, WHO JOINED US AFTER THE MEETING TO TALK ABOUT THE MASSIVE INVESTMENT THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO STAND UP VENEZUELA'S OIL INDUSTRY ALL OVER AGAIN.

29:06 WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TEAMS ON THE GROUND INVESTIGATING, FOLLOWING WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH PRODUCTION IN THE FACILITIES, SEEING WITH THE SAFETY AND SECURITY SITUATION IS LIKE AND HOW THAT PROGRESSES. BUT I HAVE NO DOUBT AT ALL THAT WE WILL SEE MASSIVE INCREASES IN INVESTMENT FROM MANY COMPANIES IN THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY IN VENEZUELA, AND THE PRODUCTION PROFILE WILL REFLECT THAT. WE WILL SEE GROWING PRODUCTION HOPEFULLY BY THE SUMMER. JOE: OF COURSE, WE TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE PUSHBACK WE HEARD, AT LEAST CONCERN FROM A LOT OF THE OIL MAJORS WHO WERE THERE.

29:42 THEY KNOW THIS BETTER THAN ANYBODY, HAVING ALREADY BEEN IN VENEZUELA. CHEVRON REMAINS BUT EXXON MOBIL, FOR INSTANCE, PULLED OUT, HAVING SEEN ITS ASSETS SEIZED TWICE. YOU REMEMBER THE LINE FROM DARREN WOODS ON FRIDAY, UNIVESTABLE IS HOW HE DESCRIBED VENEZUELA. PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYING HE WAS DISPLEASED WITH THE COMPANY'S RESPONSE AND TOLD REPORTERS ON AIR FORCE ONE HE WOULD BE INCLINED TO KEEP EXXON OUT BECAUSE OF THAT LINE. WE HEARD A LOT OF DIFFERENT NARRATIVES. HAROLD HAMM HAD NOTHING BUT COMPLIMENTS FOR THE PRESIDENT BUT THERE WAS STILL CONCERNED ABOUT HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE, HOW MUCH IT WOULD COST, BUT IT WOULD MEAN FOR THE OIL INDUSTRY AT LARGE.

30:31 BOB MCNALLY IS WITH US TO GET OUR HEADS AROUND THE PROJECT. WELCOME BACK. I HOPE YOUR YEAR IS STARTING OFF WELL. WE NEED YOU AT TIMES LIKE THESE. YOU SAY IT IS ALWAYS ABOUT THE BARRELS. IN THIS CASE, IT WILL TAKE A LOT TO GET THESE BARRELS OUT OF THE GROUND HERE. YOU HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT VENEZUELA FOR YEARS. CHEVRON HAS BEEN THERE 100 YEARS. WHAT WOULD IT TAKE FOR ALL OF THESE COMPANIES TO COME BACK INTO THE COUNTRY, AND WOULD IT BE WORTH IT FOR THEM? IS THE RETURN THERE? BOB: WHAT THEY ARE ALL WAITING AND LOOKING FOR, AND CHEVRON TOUGHED IT OUT, THAT WE WOULD SEE A STABLE, WORKABLE, DECENT REGIME THAT WILL HAVE FAVORABLE COMMERCIAL TERMS, GOOD RELATIONS WITH THE UNITED STATES AND NOT BE SANCTIONED. IF WE COULD STEP BACK FOR A SECOND, THERE ARE THREE BUCKETS OF OIL WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

31:33 THERE ARE THE 30 MILLION BARRELS BEING PRODUCED, BEING STORED. PRESIDENT TRUMP A LOT OF SAY ABOUT THAT. THEY ARE WORKING ON MARKETING THAT, AND THAT'S EASY. THEN THERE IS THE OIL THAT MAY BE PRODUCED IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS IF CHEVRON GETS A LICENSE. LET'S CALL THAT THE LOW HANGING FRUIT. PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS A LOT OF SAY OVER THAT AS WELL, MAINLY, CAN HELP DELIVER THIS STABLE GOVERNMENT WE NEED. THEN THE THIRD BUCKET, WHICH IS WHAT EXXON WAS TALKING ABOUT. THAT IS THE MILLIONS OF BARRELS A DAY MORE THAT VENEZUELA COULD PRODUCE. THAT IS MEASURED IN YEARS, DECADES, TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

32:13 THERE ARE REALLY THREE BUCKETS OF OIL. THE PRESIDENT IS RELEVANT FOR THE FIRST TWO, BUT THE THIRD ONE IS WHAT EXXON WAS TALKING ABOUT. RIGHT NOW, IT IS UNINVESTABLE FOR THE LONG TERM BUT HOPEFULLY IT WILL BE SOON. JOE: WE HEAR A LOT ABOUT HEAVY SOUR CRUDE. DOES EXXON WANT THIS WHEN IT HAS ACCESS TO OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD? I DON'T MEAN TO MAKE THIS ABOUT COMPANIES. BOB: IF WE WERE SPEAKING HERE A YEAR OR TWO YEARS AGO, YOU WOULD SAY EVERYONE SAYS THE MAN WILL PEAK BY 2030. THIS IS LIKE A HORSE AND BUGGY FACTORY OPENING UP IN 1902.

32:50 BUT THAT NARRATIVE IS COLLAPSING. WE HAVE PLENTY OF OIL THIS YEAR AND NEXT YEAR. NOT IN2035, SO WE NEED THE EXTRA OIL FROM VENEZUELA. THEN THERE IS A TYPE OF OIL, NOT ALL THE OIL IS THE SAME. VENEZUELA'S OIL IS LIKE MOLASSES, IT HAS TO BE TREATED. U.S. COMPANIES HAVE THE LOGISTICAL, ENGINEERING, FINANCIAL WHEREWITHAL TO TURN THAT INTO THE GASOLINE AND DIESEL THAT WE ALL USE. YOU ALMOST NEED THOSE KINDS OF COMPANIES TO REALLY GET VENEZUELA BACK IN THE GAME. IT IS JUST WHAT THE DOCTOR ORDERED BUT NOT UNTIL 2035. JOE: WOULD OUR REFINERS NEED TO RETOOL TO HANDLE THAT KIND OF CRUDE?

33:34 WE GET SIMILAR TYPES, NOT EXACTLY THE SAME, BUT SIMILAR, FROM MEXICO AND CANADA. OUR COMPLEX REFINERS ARE IN THE GULF. THEY KNOW HOW TO CRACK THAT GUNK INTO GASOLINE. JOE: WE HAVE THIS MASSIVE OIL RESERVE IN VENEZUELA. EVERYONE IS DROOLING OVER IT, WE WILL SAY THAT IS TRUE. WHAT IF YOU MADE A MASSIVE INVESTMENT IN THE PERMIAN? WHAT DOES THAT DO IS TO YOUR DOMESTIC INVESTMENT AS A COMPANY? BOB: YOU WANT TO HAVE A PORTFOLIO. THERE IS A ROLE FOR PERMIAN SHALE OIL. IF I COULD EXTEND MY ANALOGY, IT IS LIKE CHAMPAGNE. YOU WANT TO HAVE SOME OF THAT.

34:17 THE PERMIAN HAS MATURED FOR THE TIME PERIOD, IT WILL FLATLINE A LITTLE BIT. WE ARE LOOKING AT 2035. THESE COMPANIES ARE LOOKING AT WILL BE ON THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION. THEY SAY WHEN WE LOSE MILLIONS OF BARRELS A DAY FROM DEPLETION, WHERE WILL THE NEW OIL COME FROM TO OFFSET THAT? YOU NEED LIGHT SWEET FROM THE PERMIAN, YOU NEED HEAVY FROM CANADA AND MEXICO AND VENEZUELA. JOE: 10 YEARS, $100 BILLION IS WHAT THEY ARE SAYING. THAT WOULD OUTLIVE THIS ADMINISTRATION BY A LOT. THAT WAS THE POINT YOU WERE GETTING TO. DOES THIS PROJECT THEN GO UNSERVED, DO THESE COMPANIES NEED TO GO AND DO THEIR OWN EXPLORATION? BOB: DARREN WOODS SPOKE TO THIS. ASSUMING WE HAVE BASIC SAFETY AND SECURITY -- THAT'S IMPORTANT.

35:09 OTHER THAN THE AIRLINES, I DON'T KNOW ANOTHER INDUSTRY THAT TAKES SAFETY AS SERIOUSLY. THEY WILL NEED TECHNICAL TEAMS THERE. IMAGINE A MANSION THAT HAS BEEN DILAPIDATED FOR 25 YEARS, NOBODY HAS BEEN INSIDE. YOU WANT THE ARCHITECT OR THE GUY TO GO IN AND LOOK AT THE PLUMBING, CARPETS. SAME TYPE OF THING ONLY ON A MUCH BIGGER SCALE. TECHNICAL TEAM NEED TO GET IN THERE AND LOOK AROUND. IT IS NOT JUST OIL THINGS, PIPELINES, SUBMERSIBLE PUMPS, HOW ABOUT ELECTRICITY, ROADS, PORT CAPACITY? THIS NEEDS TO BE ASSESSED BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN IN LOONY LAND FOR 25 YEARS. JOE: WE ARE TOLD THERE ARE ROVING BANDS OF MILITIAS, MOTORCYCLE GANGS LOOKING FOR AMERICAN EXECUTIVES AMERICAN CONTRACTORS.

36:06 THAT GETS BACK TO THAT FIRST BUCKET YOU TALKED ABOUT. IS THE ADMINISTRATION CAPABLE OF TAMPING DOWN THAT RISK? BOB: WITH THE STATE DEPARTMENT URGING AMERICANS TO GET OUT AND BE CAREFUL. JOE: OIL COMPANIES KNOW HOW TO OPERATE IN DANGEROUS PLACES. HOW DOES THIS COMPARE? BOB: THE OIL THAT IS STORED, IT IS EITHER ON BOATS OR IN TANKS ON LAND. IF THEY CAN ARRANGE SOME TRANSACTIONS, THEY CAN PROBABLY ARRANGE FOR THAT TO BE SHIPPED OUT. IT WAS TO GO BACK TO CHINA TO PAY BACK DEBT, NOW IT WILL GO TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER. IT IS THAT SECOND BUCKET.

36:43 CAN CHEVRON AND REPSOL ACHIEVE THOSE TARGETS THEY GIVE TO THE PRESIDENT ON FRIDAY, CAN WE GET 50% HIGHER PRODUCTION IN THE NEXT YEAR OR TWO? A BARE MINIMUM IS THAT YOU NEED SAFETY AND SECURITY, THEN YOU NEED SANCTIONS TO BE EASED. WE BRING IN LIQUIDS TO CUT THE MOLASSES WITH. YOU NEED MORE OF THAT. IF CONDITIONS ARE RIGHT -- SECRETARY WRIGHT DID A GREAT INTERVIEW WITH YOU. WE COULD SEE THE PERCENTAGE INCREASES OFF OF WHAT EXXON IS DOING NOW IN THE NEXT YEAR OR TWO IF THINGS GO WELL, BUT YOU HAVE TO HAVE BASIC SAFETY. JOE: WE LEARN EVERY TIME WE TALK TO BOB MCNALLY. RAPIDAN ENERGY, FRIEND OF THE PROGRAM. THANK YOU SO MUCH. OUR EYES ALSO ON IRAN, AND THIS WILL FACTOR INTO OIL PRICES. THE PRESIDENT POSTING ABOUT IRAN QUITE A BIT WITH PROTESTS ENTERING A SECOND WEEK.

37:36 PRETTY REMARKABLE HERE WITH THE PRESIDENT TALKING ABOUT THIS AS RECENTLY AS YESTERDAY.

37:42 THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME PEOPLE KILLED THAT ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE KILLED. THESE ARE VIOLENT -- I DON'T KNOW IF THEY ARE LEADERS OR THEY JUST RULED THROUGH VIOLENCE. BUT WE ARE LOOKING AT IT VERY SERIOUSLY. A MEETING IS BEING SET UP. WE MAY HAVE TO ACT BECAUSE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING BEFORE THE MEETING, BUT A MEETING IS BEING SET UP. IRAN CALLED, THEY WANT TO NEGOTIATE. JOE: IRAN CALLED, THEY WANT TO NEGOTIATE. WE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT THIS WITH REBECCA WASSER, GEOPOLITICS TEAM LEADER. ARE WE SURE THAT IRAN CALLED, WHAT DO WE THINK THE OVERTURES INCLUDE? REBECCA: THEY ARE TRYING TO HAVE AN OPEN DIALOGUE, MAKE IT SO THAT WE DON'T SEE THE USE OF STRIKES AGAINST THEM, AS PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID. JOE: THEY ARE TAKING HIM AT HIS WORD.

38:43 REBECCA: TRACK RECORD SHOWS THAT THEY PROBABLY SHOULD. LAST FEW TIMES HE HAS FOLLOWED THROUGH ON IT BUT ALSO IRAN HAS FRESH WOUNDS. THERE HAVE BEEN U.S. AND ISRAELI STRIKES ON THEIR SOIL IN RECENT MEMORY. I THINK IT IS TRYING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION, BUT ALSO IN DOING SO, EVEN IF THEY MAKE IT WHERE THERE ARE NOT STRIKES, IT AT LEAST PROLONGS THE TIMELINE. JOE: WE ARE BEING TOLD IT IS DIFFERENT THIS TIME WHEN IT COMES TO THE PROTESTS, THE FACT THAT IT IS GOING ON THIS LONG AND THE REGIME HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO SCARE PEOPLE BACK INTO THEIR HOMES IS REMARKABLE.

39:20 WE ARE TOLD SOME 500 PROTESTERS ARE DEAD, 11,000 HAVE BEEN ARRESTED AND ARE BEING HELD. HOW DOES THIS END? REBECCA: I CANNOT TELL YOU HOW IT ENDS NECESSARILY BUT THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID ABOUT THE SIZE OF THESE PROTESTS, THE SPREAD ACROSS THE GEOGRAPHY, AND THE FACT THAT THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME IN RECENT YEARS WHERE WE HAVE SEEN IRANIAN PEOPLE TAKE TO THE STREETS. THERE IS CLEARLY SOMETHING INTERNALLY THAT THEY NEED TO BE TRYING TO MOVE THE NEEDLE FORWARD ON. IT IS JUST WHETHER WHAT THE U.S. DOES IN RESPONSE ACTUALLY HELPS THE PROTESTERS RATHER THAN POTENTIALLY HINDERS WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO DO. JOE: THAT COULD INCLUDE INTERNET ACCESS BY WAY OF STARLINK, THE PRESIDENT SAYS HE IS THINKING ABOUT ASKING ELON MUSK TO DO THAT AS THE REGIME CUTS OFF INTERNET ACTIVITY AND POWER IN SOME CASES.

40:10 WOULD THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE? REBECCA: IT WOULD MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF THE COMMUNICATION AND THE ABILITY OF THE PEOPLE TO TELL THE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHAT IS HAPPENING ON SOIL. WE DON'T TRULY KNOW. BEING ABLE TO HAVE INCREASED ACCESS WOULD DEFINITELY BE ONE OF THEM. AS WE HEARD, THERE ARE A RANGE OF OPTIONS THAT WILL BE PUT FORWARD TO PRESIDENT TRUMP TOMORROW. THAT RANGES FROM THINGS LIKE PROVIDING MORE INTERNET ACCESS TO MILITARY STRIKES TO THE POTENTIAL FOR EVEN CYBERATTACKS OR SOME TYPE OF MAYBE TARGETED ASSASSINATION EVEN. IT'S A WIDE RANGE OF OPTIONS THAT GO FROM HELPING PROTESTERS TO THE MORE KINETIC OPTIONS THAT WE USUALLY TEND TO SEE. JOE: THE PRESIDENT TALKED ABOUT HAVING A MENU OF OPTIONS BEFORE HIM. YOU MENTIONED THIS IS AN IMPORTANT BRIEFING TOMORROW. ARE YOU WATCHING OIL AS A POTENTIAL FOLLOW-UP FOR ANY KINETIC ACTION THE MILITARY MIGHT TAKE? REBECCA: WE ARE ALWAYS LOOKING AT OIL

41:11 WHEN IT COMES TO ANY CONFLICT IN THE MIDDLE EAST. WHAT WE HAVE SEEN, THERE IS A GREAT DEAL OF RESILIENCE FROM INTERNATIONAL OIL MARKETS WHENEVER IT RELATES TO CONFLICTS. CONFLICT IS THE PRICE OF DOING BUSINESS UNFORTUNATELY IN THE MIDDLE EAST. JOE: THAT IS QUITE THE STATEMENT. WE DID GO THROUGH THIS ALREADY WITH IRAN LAST YEAR. THANK YOU FOR THE INSIGHTS. A LOT MORE ON THE LATE EDITION

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Powell Probe Sparks GOP Backlash | Balance of Power: Early Edition 1/12/2026"?

In order: 0:00 Department of Justice, Federal Reserve, Donald Trump, Jay Powell; 5:00 Donald Trump, Federal Reserve, Bernie Moreno, Bloomberg; 10:00 Donald Trump; 15:00 Donald Trump, Bloomberg, Department of Justice, Jay Powell; 20:00 Donald Trump; 25:00 Bloomberg, Donald Trump; 30:00 Donald Trump; 35:00 Donald Trump, Rebecca Wasser; 40:00 Donald Trump.

What is mentioned in this Bloomberg Television episode?

14 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Donald Trump, Federal Reserve, Bloomberg, Department of Justice, Jay Powell, Joe Mathieu. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Powell Probe Sparks GOP Backlash | Balance of Power: Early Edition 1/12/2026"?

The episode runs 42 min; the transcript is about 6,204 words in 54 timestamped sections.

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