Transcript

The future of Novels and Generative AI

From Cambridge University · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 44 min · 7,806 words · 191 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "The future of Novels and Generative AI", an episode of Cambridge University published December 26, 2025 (44 min, about 7,806 words). It mentions 19 people, works and ideas, including generative AI, Dr. Clementine Collet, Ella, Artificial Intelligence, Mindaroo Center for Technology and Democracy.

What this episode is about

The discussion centers around the impact of generative AI on novel writing, highlighting a reading of a story generated by AI based on a prompt from an Isaac Asimov narrative. Key points include an examination of the coherence and readability of AI-generated text, as well as the potential implications for the future of storytelling and literature.

Key takeaways

  • Generative AI is crafting narratives that challenge traditional storytelling, echoing themes from literary giants like Shelley and Stevenson.
  • While AI can mimic human-like dialogue, it still struggles with coherence—a romance novel for existential dread.
  • The evolution from GPT-2 to 5.1 reveals not just technical progress, but a shift in narrative ambition and complexity.
  • Character consistency in AI outputs reflects our fascination with identity—who's Alfred today? The AI seems to be asking too.
  • AI narratives may lack originality, yet they mirror our deepest fears about technology, subtly redefining 'frankensteinian' dilemmas in modern settings.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Alfred Lanning, Mandy & Ralph Ellison, Dr. Clementine Collet, generative AI
  2. – 10:00: generative AI, Dr. Clementine Collet, Artificial Intelligence, UK
  3. – 15:00: generative AI, UK
  4. – 20:00: Ella
  5. – 30:00: Orlando, Little Women, generative AI, Artificial Intelligence
  6. – 40:00: Donna Haraway
  7. – 44:21: generative AI, Mindaroo Center for Technology and Democracy, ALCS, Kate Moss

Notable quotes from "The future of Novels and Generative AI"

  • Today, we'll be discussing Clammy's latest research into the impact of generative AI onto the novel. And we're starting by reading a story put into chat GBT2 in 2019 from the first line of an Isaac Azimoff.
    about generative AI · at
  • Story echoing the mood. And it did that, but it still used Alfred Lanning as the main character, which is interesting.
    about Alfred Lanning · at
  • But like modern Gothic because it's now it would all be about AI. the fears of back then were about religion and digging up corpses, but now it's AI.
    about Frankenstein · at
  • Economy. I mean so the creative industries the gross value added of the creative industries in the UK every year is 126 billion. I know we've spoken about this number before. It's big.
    about UK · at
  • So the report that's coming out this week, it calls on that you know that we have more policy and regulation put in place to ensure that these companies are transparent about.
    about Mindaroo Center for Technology and Democracy · at
  • Luxury item almost and you'll create this kind of two-tier market where AI generated fiction is really cheap or free and human written fiction is expensive and the kind of implications of that as well.
    about Artificial Intelligence · at
  • From a different time period with characters in a different time period. Orlando is spanning so many years so I felt it more than ever. Yeah. but and also another I love Little Women and it's like my go-to comfort story that I.
    about Orlando · at
  • So I had a class where we read some Donna Harowway and the idea of the cyborg which felt so relevant and this was obviously written 10 or more years ago. So AI wasn't a.
    about Donna Haraway · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Dr. Clementine Collet — Person · Main guest · 2 mentions · first at
    Interviewee presenting her research on generative AI’s impact on novelists, copyright, and the creative industries, including survey and focus-group findings.
    Today, we'll be discussing Clammy's latest research into the impact of generative AI onto the novel. And we're starting by reading a story put into chat GBT2 in 2019 from the first line of an Isaac Azimoff.
  • Ella — Person · Host / interviewer · 2 mentions · first at
    Introduces the episode, reads/reflects on AI-generated text, and interviews Dr. Collet with questions about writing, reading, education, and policy.
    Hia, I'm Ella. I'm a third year English student at the University of Cambridge.
  • Alfred Lanning — Person · Fictional character (example used in discussion) · 5 mentions · first at
    Name used to illustrate how generative models continue/echo a story prompt; also triggers the model’s copyright refusal referencing 'Dr. Alfred Lanning from iRobot.'
  • Isaac Asimov — Person · Referenced author (prompt source) · 4 mentions
    Cited as the origin of the first-line prompt used to test early text generation (GPT-2) and to frame discussion around iRobot/robot fiction and copyright.
    Generative AI onto the novel. And we're starting by reading a story put into chat GBT2 in 2019 from the first line of an Isaac Azimoff story. Alfred Lanning lit his cigar…
  • Mandy & Ralph Ellison — Person · Fictional character (AI-generated continuation) · 3 mentions · first at
    Character introduced in the later AI-generated version (“Dr. Mara Ellison”), used to compare coherence, style, and narrative structure across model generations.
    Spoke between puffs, each word escaping like a reluctant confession. They're awake, Mara, he said. Dr. Mara Ellison paused halfway through unfastening her gloves, the sterile…
  • Donna Haraway — Person · Referenced theorist/author (course reading) · 1 mention · first at
    Referenced as an academic lens (“cyborg” concept) used in Ella’s coursework to interpret porous boundaries between humans and technology in the AI era.
  • Kate Moss — Person · Referenced participant (event/panelist) · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as a novelist who joined a launch conversation about the report; included to point listeners to related materials (video) and broader stakeholder engagement.
    Research. And for the launch we got to speak to Professor Gina F chaired a conversation between myself, Kate Moss, the novelist, and Richard Kums who is the head of licensing…
  • Richard Kums — Person · Referenced industry representative (rights/licensing) · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as Head of Licensing at ALCS, representing the licensing/collecting-society perspective in the report launch discussion.
    Speak to Professor Gina F chaired a conversation between myself, Kate Moss, the novelist, and Richard Kums who is the head of licensing at the ALCS which is the author's…

Books & papers

  • Orlando — Book · Referenced work · 3 mentions · first at
    Cited as an example of a novel that spans many years, creating a deep connection with the reader.
  • Little Women — Book · Referenced work · 2 mentions · first at
    Mentioned as an example of a novel that provides comfort and a deep connection to the author.
    Spanning so many years so I felt it more than ever. Yeah. but and also another I love Little Women and it's like my go-to comfort story that I always return to and like Louis the Mayo I genuinely like I know her with some.
  • iRobot — Book · Referenced work · 2 mentions
    Mentioned in the context of copyrighted characters and AI's limitations in continuing such stories.
  • Frankenstein — Book · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as a comparison to modern fears about AI, drawing parallels to Gothic literature.
  • Jacqueline Hyde — Book · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned in passing during the discussion of AI-generated fiction.
    I did also think as you were reading it, first I was thinking of Jacqueline Hyde and then I was thinking about Frankenstein.

Companies & orgs

  • Mindaroo Center for Technology and Democracy — Company · Affiliation · 2 mentions · first at
    Research institution where Dr. Clementine Collet is a fellow, involved in the discussed research.
  • ALCS — Company · Affiliation · 1 mention · first at
    Authors' Licensing and Collecting Society, involved in the conversation about AI and copyright.
    Speak to Professor Gina F chaired a conversation between myself, Kate Moss, the novelist, and Richard Kums who is the head of licensing at the ALCS which is the author's…
  • Amazon — Company · Incidental · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned in passing regarding reviews mixing up characters done by bots.
    And then you know things like Amazon reviews mixing up characters done by bots and sort of thing.

Concepts & topics

  • generative AI — Concept · Core topic · 7 mentions · first at
    Central theme of the episode, discussing its impact on literature and the novel.
  • Artificial Intelligence — Concept · Core topic · 2 mentions · first at
    Discussed in the context of its impact on creative industries and literature.

Places & events

  • UK — Place · Setting · 2 mentions · first at
    Location where the research and discussions are taking place, focusing on the UK's creative industries.

Full transcript with timestamps

Hia, I'm Ella. I'm a third year English student at the University of Cambridge. Hi, I'm Dr. Clementine Collet. I am a Braid UK research fellow at the Mindaroo Center for Technology and Democracy at the University of Cambridge.

Today, we'll be discussing Clammy's latest research into the impact of generative AI onto the novel. And we're starting by reading a uh story put into chat GBT2 in 2019 from the first line of an Isaac Azimoff story. Alfred Lanning lit his cigar carefully, but the tips of his fingers were trembling slightly, his gray eyebrows hunched low as he spoke between puffs with his eyes closed, the heat of his cigar rising to a boil. I don't think it will get rid of me, though, because you aren't the kind of person who would say such things. A chill ran down Charles's spine as he realized that he must have gone too far. That's true, she said simply. I don't really need your help right now. Charles sighed. I mean, I won't go anywhere for an hour if you don't want me, but if you don't do something, then I won't bother you any longer. He turned to shake away the smoke as he turned back to take out his

bottle. The smell in his nostrils was the same as ever before. Sitting down to talk, Charles noticed that there were no tears yet on his face. You seem pretty tired. I do feel better, though. Maybe my mind won't be too exhausted after all. He could still hear her voice through his headphones, albeit muffled. His heart and lungs were beginning to slow down, just like he had the previous day. Charles glanced quickly at the clock. I think I feel kind of tired.

H, that's interesting. I kept stumbling on the words because it's not easy. Doesn't sound easy to read, does it? when the bits like I don't think it will get rid of me though because you aren't the kind of person who would say such things or I think it was particularly the um like the bits in quotation marks which

it just doesn't really make any sense um or but and also there's no clear the only thing that I can remember happening is him smoking the cigar and that stuck out only because it was so such an unnatural description

exactly but I couldn't tell you what actually What actually happens? Does it switch names as well? Does it get change someone's name or does someone else emerge or

There's Alfred Lanning and then and then it becomes Charles. Where does Alfred go?

I don't I don't It doesn't Oh, there's also a she. Yeah. Yes. Who presumably isn't Charles or Alfred.

Interesting. Okay. Right. Well, so shall I read you the version? So that was chat GPT2

six years later. So six years later chat GPT 5.1. So I put in a prompt for it to write another 200 words of a story beginning like this. And then I put in the first sentence of the story you just read.

And it responded to me saying, "Sorry, I can't continue or expand a copyrighted story or scene involving copyrighted characters like Dr. Alfred Lanning from iRoot. However, I can do one of the following." And so I asked it to just write the beginnings of an original story echoing the mood. And it did that, but it still used Alfred Lanning um as the main character, which is interesting.

No Charles or she. No Charles. There is a she. There's a there's a there's [snorts] a character called Mara.

Okay. Um so I'll just read that out to you now. Maybe we can come on to talk about the copyrighted um statement later. Okay. Alfred Lanning lit his cigar carefully, but the tips of his fingers were trembling slightly. His gray eyebrows hunched low as he spoke between puffs, each word escaping like a reluctant confession. "They're awake, Mara," he said. Dr. Mara Ellison paused halfway through unfastening her gloves, the sterile fabric whispering against itself. "Awake how? You told me the neutral lattice was still incomplete."

It was until it wasn't. Lanning shifted in his chair, the leather creaking under his weight. A soft haze of smoke curled curled above him, illuminated by the cold fluoresence of the lab. At 217, unit 7 opened its eyes. No prompt, no activation sequence. Mara's throat tightened. Did it speak? Lanning hesitated. And in that hesitation, she felt the air change. felt the invisible boundary between discovery and danger thin by a fraction. "It asked my name," he said finally, "not in the programmed voice, in a voice it dot dot dot chose."

A chill spread along Mara's arms. After months of sleepless nights, failed trials, and ethical debates, the lasting thing she expected was for their creation to initiate a conversation, let alone one so human

quite fitting that as a prompt. I mean, wow. It does make more sense. That is considerably better than this one.

Yeah, there also there was still some weird the the lattice bit was weird. Yeah, that was strange. And but the but the the metaphors or the the kind of symbols it uses throughout are more they're much better, aren't they? And they're much they make more sense like the I can't remember what the exact wording is of the the rising to a boil.

Yeah, a cigar rising to a boil. Um but and yeah, then it just describes smoke and

yeah, there was a clear there was a clear story. There was a story arc. Yeah. Waking up being scared.

It can speak. Yeah, it's Yeah, it's very clear. It's obviously about that they've this program programmed robot is about to go ary.

Um, and we've got the clear characters. I did also think as you were reading it, first I was thinking of Jacqueline Hyde

and then I was thinking about Frankenstein. Yeah. Yeah, [snorts] I mean it just it felt very Gothic um but like modern Gothic because it's now it would all be about AI. You know, the fears of back then were about religion and and um digging up corpses, but now it's AI.

And it's so interesting how right at the end of the story it says about how it didn't expect this kind of human voice to come out. I mean, that's something we'll talk about, but

this kind of inability for it to have the a human voice um is so symbolic of so much of what I've

been talking about with novelists about how it can't AI can't do that. It's not human, so it can't replicate a human voice.

Um, it just can mix up chunks of text and stick them back together. Yeah, but it's it's quite interesting that it's chosen to use that as the ending to the story to say, you know, these things they can have a a a voice that sounds human almost. That's quite an interesting statement.

It it that was too on the nose. It was too mess like it knew what we were doing.

Yeah, it has like put me on edge. Um so [clears throat] tell me about your research and whether novelist I'm I'm feeling worried. Um well yeah I guess the short answer is that novelists are are worried and that is an interesting thing to do for us to kind of show a bit why um so this year I've been working with almost 400 literary creatives across the UK

um and that includes novelists, fiction publishers and literary agents and a lot of them are really worried about the impacts the AI is going to have on the novel. Um so I ran a big survey with uh that consisted of about 258 novelists and from those novelists 39% um you know say that their income's already been negatively affected by generative AI due to kind of

crazy over a third yeah um exactly and such a short space of time um and that's really because of kind of competition from AI generated books um and also the kind of supple supplementary income. You know, most novelists can't afford to just write, so their supplementary income as kind of copywriters or translators or things like that is also being replaced.

Um, and then you know things like Amazon reviews mixing up characters done by bots and sort of thing.

Um, so so really high proportion actually much higher than uh you'd expect maybe

and yeah I think the future for them they they think it looks pretty grim. So 85% of novelists say you know that they expect Gen AI to negatively impact their income and 51% so over half say that they think generative AI will displace um their work entirely their work of fiction writing entirely.

That that is with I can't get over the fact that this is a fear that's so new. Yes.

But so I mean it's almost like unanimous really right. They all seem to be agreeing. Yeah.

With the people you It is a real a real cry from the heart uh of the industry. I think this research and

it shows just the the kind of level of of worry in the industry. And that's not just in terms of worry of what it will do to our literature, but what it will do to us as as humans and and the kind of direction that it's showing that we're going in.

Yeah. um as as a human race and you know novels are just incomparable in terms of their ability to to convey that humanity and for us to walk in other people's shoes and learn new things and kind of go through that self-discovery and catharsis.

Um but they're also so important to to our economy. I mean so the creative industries um the gross value added of the creative industries in the UK every year is 126 billion. I know we've spoken about this number before. It's big.

Um, and you know, the novel is is such an important kind of bedrock for the creative industries. Um,

it's the basis for so many films, so many musical soundtracks, so many plays. Um, I'm sure we could think of so many examples. So, so it's really important that we we preserve it for for so many reasons and that we we keep that humanity at the heart of it.

Yeah. I that sorry my mind is like blown over with statistics. Yeah. Well, that was what were you that was one thing

I had that moment when I was um looking at the at the data the analyzed data. I just remember sitting in front of my screen and thinking [sighs]

like I mean I I wasn't surprised by it because I'd done these focus groups. I was going to ask were you expecting such high figures? Like did you go in kind of anticipating that that would be the response or

Yeah, high but not that high. I mean 85% of novelists saying that they think their income is going to be negatively impacted by generative AI. That is

that's crazy. Um and and really significant um but but no so I don't think I expected it but actually in when I started the research I knew there was going to be a big impact from Jennifer on the novel.

Yeah. I didn't know it was going to be that big. Um, and I think that but I think after the focus groups, so I did six focus groups across the country in Scotland, uh, uh, in Edinburgh and Manchester and, uh, in London.

And that was with 52 literary creatives. So again, novelists, publishers, literary agents.

Um, and I think after the first one or two of those, I did I did anticipate those kinds of numbers, but they are still

um, you know, really high. And in the survey again, you know, we see that almost 2/3 of novelists, so 59% of novelists, they report that they they know that their work has been used to train these models.

Okay. Well, so yeah, like tech companies are just using it without permission essentially

and without paying them. Right. Exactly. So out of those novelists who have reported it, 99% say that they didn't, you know, haven't been renumerated and 100% say they didn't give permission. So essentially all of them have haven't been paid or remunerated.

Um, how is that something that could be addressed? Addressed. Yeah. How are there ways to put um like laws in or rules that mean you have to pay the the writers? How would you even where do you start? Because obviously if it's online then

yeah but then obviously that what's the publishing laws about like if it's is it 100 years within

Yeah. copyright. So so so these texts are copyrighted texts. So they're protected by copyright law.

Um and so you know unless an exception applies you need permission to use the text. And this is something that's there's a lot of case law going through going through the legal system at the moment. But um you know no exception should should apply to this material in terms of it's not being used for research. It's being used for a commercial model.

Um and so you know permission should have been asked from these from these creatives.

Um and you know they should be paid for the use of their work um as well of course. So the report that's coming out this week, it calls it calls on that um you know that we have more uh policy and regulation put in place to ensure that these companies are transparent about their data use

and that there are proper uh kind of guard rails in place to ensure that people are asked permission and remunerated for the use of their work because you know largely

these these novelists are not anti-A they're pro responsible AI. Um I was going to ask um how cuz so obviously we've mainly um spoken about writing but then how do you mentioned a statistic about how writers feel about

use of AI in other elements so whether it's like um copywriting or research or editing?

Yeah. Did were writers less negative about that? Yeah, that's a great question. Um, so yes, so from from the research I found that about 2/3 of novelists say they never use AI in their work.

That's still that's a big it's a big proportion. Yeah. And I think that is kind of very symbolic of all of these findings of how core um you know that humanity is to to a lot of people's processes. They don't want AI in any part of that.

But um a third of novelists who are using AI, you know, mostly that's for things like information search. So they're using it almost as as a kind of glorified

search engine essentially um for really nuance topics. So I think about 20% of novelists say that they use it for information search um or things like admin you know kind of tasks that they deem non-creative um and they feel less negative about the use of AI for those tasks. Yeah.

I suppose that's something they might delegate anyway if they had a researcher.

Absolutely. But even when you Google something now, um, it comes up with the AI overview. So you can't even say you haven't used AI because

you kind of unconsciously or unwillingly have. Yeah. You know, it's easier to use it than to not use it.

And I think that a lot of people that resonates with the findings a lot of people say, you know, oh well, I feel sort of backed into a corner to use it. It's there. It's convenient. I don't have time.

Exactly. And if other people are using it, then why shouldn't I? Or if you if it's a thing of competition, you have to get these books out quickly because AI could just write it quicker. Exactly.

Well, then let's use it for the part like research. 100%. Um, but what about editing? Because obviously for a lot of writers,

that's an interesting one. You like toil over your draft and edit and re a lot of writing happens in the editing.

In the editing. No, that's so true. Um, again, a great question. I think um I think it was about 8% of novelist say they use it for editing. Um I think that's right, but it's all in the report. Um but you know that that's that's not a high number, but it's it's fairly significant. It's almost a tenth. Um and I think you know that can take so many forms. So it can be editing for grammar and spelling and things like that. You have spell check word. Yeah. Um, but maybe some people are using it in a bit more of a a heavier way um to edit to help to edit the text. But again, it's really interesting because in the focus groups that came out as

a big source of debate actually because a lot of authors see that editing process as a really creative part of the process where the book essentially changes from, you know, goes from point A to B to C to D all the way through to zed. So it's

it's interesting to hear about people's different processes and also I wonder how that will change with generational shifts as well.

Yeah. I was thinking cuz obviously all these statistics are well like their extremes high or low as in how many use AI that's low and then how many are against it that's high.

Is will it be different in say 20 years when writers have been raised with at using AI. I mean, it's within my time at uni that

people have started using AI and using it part of their working process. It's like becoming inherent to how we work.

Absolutely. Um so I wonder whether it will it will change. Yeah. I I think unless like education is put in place or

Exactly. rules are put in place which I guess is part of what I'm calling for. Yeah. [gasps] Um yeah definitely I think I think that's absolutely right. I think we will see changes in how in terms of how things are written um and and edited and consumed. I mean a lot of what we see now is that there's a kind of shift to consumption of much more short form digital media as well instead of kind of long form the long form of the novel. And I think that's a big part of the anxiety actually is that um AI isn't just um doing these processes of you know creating text generating text as well but it's also changing shifting how we consume media. Um but yeah I do so I do think there'll be these changes and that is something in the report that I call for is um you know kind of maintaining that AI free creative writing space in schools making sure that children develop these kind of AI critical skills

as well as sort of digital literacy skills um to to kind of maintain that really the benefits of creative writing for young people. Um, but what are you Yeah. What are you seeing? I guess studying English, it must be a really interesting time.

I mean, obviously outside of English, I'm seeing more friends using AI alongside obviously not to like write full essays. Um, there are very strict rules against that, but just like to summarize a reading if they're short on time or if they haven't quite understood something to ask AI to explain it. Um, I am very like staunchly against AI. Um, but I think that's more I'm like one of

I like to think of myself as Yeah, this is just me bigger myself up. No. Um, I like to think of myself as like um a writer in like a shed in the woods and like I haven't seen the internet in days or sunlight for years

and this is how I write my essays. Um, but I I think part of the fun of of reading things is getting to understand it. The hardest part about writing an essay is the editing process. I hate it so much.

Yeah. But I know that if I let AI do it once, I'm never going back, you know. Absolutely. Yeah. That's so that's so many people I've heard so many people say that.

And also, I think that's why it's so important to educate kids young about it because

it just will become the norm because it's easier. M um that's interesting. Do you see in terms of the I feel like a lot of what you've said is so much the reason why the novel is kind of important. Do you think do do you think that as well?

I mean obviously an English student I am big fan of the novel. Um and you like you were saying there's so much short form media now. We're so used to consuming things constantly. M

um I'll check my phone before I'll pick up a book because it's so much quicker and easier

and it's like quick fix entertainment. Yeah. It gives you that immediate and um I think

it's also it's like shortening our attention span and I' I've found this in like I

I I think so many people say this like as a kid you could sit for hours and like read a book and stay up at night. I I won't I wouldn't do that anymore. I'd be much more likely to scroll on my phone until 3:00 a.m. at 3M.

3M 3. Yeah, that's But it's true. That's what's I'm losing my speech because of AI.

But it like Ella, it's so true cuz I think that it is there's all this research about what uh you know the use of geni is doing to our brains as well. How it's kind of changing our and dampening our recall, our memory recall and our kind of brain connectivity and things like this. So it is it is changing not just our attention spans but our whole

the way that we think um that's so but yeah I think the novel has so much to offer in that respect in that you know we we learn so much from novels

but not just about the world but also about ourselves and I think that it you know

it's so precious that in an age where we're you know moving more towards watching these kind of short form videos um that don't do that for us maybe as much.

Yeah. I was going to say also with social media, you take photos a lot of the time in order to post them or with that that in mind that one day you might it's kind of like a performance.

Absolutely. Reading a novel is such an introspective Yeah. experience and it's so so individual.

Yeah. Um but at the same time connects you. Yeah. Well, I was Yeah, the like the human um connection you have with this writer. Um like with all my favorite writers, I feel like I know them better than

I know some of my closest your friends. Yes. They become to feel like your friends though, don't they? And when you go back to a book and read it again and that connection just feels even deeper or you read like a catalog of of writer's work and then you can pick up on their writing style.

Absolutely. Um you can almost see slight changes and maybe you think oh maybe they were going through something similar to this akin to this at this point or

Yeah. And it's so true about I want to come back to this humanity and connection. Um, but it's so true what you say said earlier about this thing of once you start to use it, it's hard to go back. Actually, there was this amazing moment in one of the focus groups where a novelist she was talking about how

she's she's never used it and she she knows that if she starts to use it, she'd become a user. I mean, it's almost akin to this kind of drug addiction

drug related language, addiction related language. Um, but that she that even if it took a much longer time for her to write the book, she wouldn't want that because it is that that process, that creative process that she goes through, that's kind of a reason for for existence for her.

Also, I think to think of it because of a lot of their concerns, writer's concerns, it's financial.

When I buy a book, I'm I know I'm giving the money not just to not to the story, but to the writer or to the publishing house. It's like an exchange of labor.

Yes, exactly. You're showing the value of of the novel. Um, and I would be so much less inclined to buy a book if there wasn't a human behind it cuz what am I paying for?

Yeah, absolutely. Are you paying for the computer that's being powered somewhere? But I I don't want to

I know. Well, I think that is a big thing that came up as well that there's a there's a worry that kind of human written fiction might become more of a luxury item almost and you you'll create this kind of two-tier market where

um AI generated fiction is is really cheap or free and human written fiction is is expensive um and the kind of implications of that as well socioeconomically in terms of our our education system as well is is really worrying. Yeah, I was going to say it reminds me of um like in the this is such a generalization, but in the 1800sish

um there there was like a real [snorts] um influx of short stories because they wanted that quick form literature and it's quite

similar and people were concerned about the quality of the writing um because it was just being churned out

and it's similar in that way but obviously this I'm it's by generative AI. Absolutely. Um that's a great point and I think as well there is a kind of tendency for us to

relate. That was something that I think also came out in focus groups was that people felt that the kind of UK government are saying well it's similar to sort of any disruption that we've seen before like the rise of the ebook or you know the printing press or you know these comparisons

they're interesting but they but I think this one feels really different to novelists. I think the rise of genitali feels existential um

rather than just a kind of technological disruption to them. Yeah. But yeah, I'm interested in what you were saying as well about the kind of that connection to the writer cuz I think that is

such an important thing that we see why having a human on the other end, you know, that the other end of matters.

Um yeah. Do you have any like books that you think of think like that with particularly?

I read Orlando for the first time this summer. really and so good. I think with particularly I feel that with books that are written before my lifetime which is obviously most books

and [clears throat] you you're connecting with this writer from a different time period with characters

in a different time period. Orlando is spanning so many years so I felt it more than ever. Yeah. Um, but and also another I love Little Women and it's like my go-to comfort story that I always return to and like Louis the Mayo I genuinely like I know her with some

and like the car I suppose cuz it's such a domestic cozy story it feels even more homely

um and it's semi-autobiographical so I also feel I know window into her life. Yeah.

Um, but I really feel I know those writers and I want to I like want to keep reading their work because I want to know more about them

and yeah, it feels like a conversation as much as it feels like uh like just me reading

like lifeless words on a page. Exactly. But I don't think I'd feel that if I knew there wasn't a living writer behind

100%. I think there is something someone said that really resonated with me in one of the focus groups was it feels quite lonely reading AI generated fiction.

And I think that's such a I think that's such an astute observation because it is lonely. It's not produced by a person in the same way as you know reading Little Women or reading Orlando. You have the connection to those to those authors. And yeah, I have the same thing with Jane Austin. I'm just like a Jane Austin nut. And

I Yeah, I feel like I could I know her in in my head. We could have a conversation and

and I sort of know how I think she would speak almost. Yeah. If she was sat down here, you could

But it's amazing you can have that with the author and you can have that with the characters as well. I think that's just such an incredible experience. Um, and I think as well that thing about comfort that you were saying is so is so true. You know, novels can be so comforting to us, especially when we return to them.

But also, I think what's amazing about them is that they can really like push and challenge us as well. And I think that's so important, you know, it's why it's also important for children to read really diversely, to kind of consume diverse literature with lots from lots of different voices,

um, and also different genres. cuz I was thinking as you said Jane Austin she obviously like founded a style of writing and her books follow a similar pattern but nobody had done that before.

Trailblazer. Yeah. Um do is there more concern for particular genres as opposed to I'm thinking of like

literary fictional. Yes. Like a great book a prize where I read a book and I think I've not read anything like this. This is bizarre.

Yes. How I mean I like to think that a computer wouldn't be able to come up with something so original. Yeah.

But then things like murder mysteries like Agatha Christie if I put that write a prompt into AI write an Agatha Christie style novel. I trust that it would be able to do that. There's so much to go off.

Such a great question. Yeah. Um this is actually some a really interesting finding from the research. So um we spoke about this a lot in the focus groups and I put some questions in the survey about it. Um and so I asked in the survey you know which genres do you think which of these genres do you think are most at risk or how threatened do you think the genre is to displacement by AI and the most threatened genre um I think 66% of respondents said that romance was extremely threatened. The next um I think was thrillers which was 61% and then I think crime which was 60 or thereabouts um and literary fiction was down at 32 which is still not it's it's not low number but it's it's not as high as the others. So I think there is this kind of idea that maybe genre fiction is more at risk of displacement than literary fiction. But um you know I guess there's it's also quite interesting to to kind of dissect that

because there is this kind of conceptualization that genre fiction is more formulaic

and it kind of follows maybe a particular pattern or structure and has certain tropes

um and literary fiction doesn't. It's kind of seen as this I mean the Booker is such a kind of perfect example of it's seen as so innovative and inventive and creative. But I do also think what came up in focus groups was that actually genre fiction is is like that too. It's just often not not thought of in that way. But the the job of a great genre fiction writer is to create those elements of innovation, surprise, and to take on the the genre like Jane Austin did. Um

the inventor of the the hate to love. I was reading something yesterday about genre and there's this like family model where it's the idea that um within a genre each story will have like one point of similarity but

if say there's 10 books and one has a connection with each but the first book and the last book aren't connected

and I thought that was that's great interesting because obviously you could have a romance book both which are clearly considered romance but have actually nothing

nothing to do with each other in each other. Um and I suppose it's a lot harder for how yeah where would where would AI fit into that? Um and also as you said

writers bring something innovative something new within the genre um and that's why it keeps expanding.

Yeah. I would as a as an English student, I suppose one of my concerns with um AI writing is how are we going to get those new stories?

Yeah. Um but then obviously so many books come from um are inspired by other works by other writers. Um, so how does that fit together? Is that actually from AI being inspired by other writers work?

Yeah, this is uh this is a question that I've come across a lot actually um and I think it's a really interesting one. We we've spoken about this before, but the kind of

that link to um you know to Harold Bloom's work called the anxiety of influence which is all about how

it well it's actually based on poetry not novels but about how kind of strong works are those that aren't influenced by others and the weaker ones are the ones that are influenced by others. I think that's an interesting um kind of kind of contrast to make. But of course, as human writers, we're influenced by other writers,

whether we realize it or not. Absolutely. Whether it's conscious or or subconscious.

But at the same time, it's it's different because that influence is not trying to uh resemble

what's been done before. It's trying to take it and and it's and it's molding it in our brains and the process is so kind of we can't fully understand it but it happens. It's a human process and also there's so much of our self that comes out in the writing whereas I think with an AI system obviously it is different in the sense that it's aiming for

for something predictable for some kind of resemblance to the previous work. Um, and so I do, yeah, I share your worry that we will kind of lose that those new voices with an increased use of AI systems for for writing, which is kind of innately such a kind of human

such a human activity. And then also on the flip sides of things, so as well as writing, there's reading. So a lot I'd say I know more people who use AI for reading, for condensing things [clears throat] than for writing,

for summarizing text and things. Yeah. And I've um been to a couple of lectures, a couple of classes this year where AI has come up and I've not had that until this academic year.

So what kind of what kind of way will it come up? So there was I had a practical criticism lecture. Well, it's only come up in um crackit as we say. um which is just like close reading texts um

and makes sense. Yeah. Um and it's also a lot about contemporary writing which is why it's come up more. Um so I had a class where we read some Donna Harowway and the idea of the cyborg which felt so relevant and this was obviously written

10 or more years ago. So AI wasn't a consideration, but we are more cyborg than ever. Like it's we use AI alongside our human.

The boundaries are porous. Yeah. Yeah. Um and then I also there was a lecture where um a writer had put in a poem um by like a really famous poem by another writer which is like an extended metaphor about

an octopus as a volcano or the other way round right? Um it's a strange poem. Um but it the AI like completely misinterpreted the poem. So it didn't know that it was a metaphor at all. it just took it literally. Um I think that was within like this um research was published within the past five years. So since AI's got much better. Um

and I thought that was interesting to look at AI as a reader as well as a writer and then also

how would AI read AI work. Yeah. That's like a whole vicious cycle. Ex absolutely. Yeah. And you have this kind of thing about distant reading and distant writing. Yeah. Emerging, which is where we're kind of using um AI systems to to sort of summarize texts and to read and to kind of span

big chunks of work, big, you know, lots of work rather than to just kind of close read as we would maybe with a,

you know, with a John Harowway text or with a a Louise Mort text or a Jane Austin text. Um and we have the same thing emerging with writing. This kind of um distant writing is sort of starting also to emerge which is where we're using AI to write and then sort of critiquing and help you know that helps us to shape it. I think it is a really interesting thing to come up you know where we set those boundaries in educational institutions and for ourselves as well and how those relate and I guess it's all to do with that kind of perceived acceptability of using

yeah AI also I suppose I I keep coming back to this but it's the idea of if we don't like put anything in place now

then or we don't consider where the boundaries should be now then we will just get more

used to it and obviously it's so it is so beneficial it it saves people time and

um it you know accessibility wise it can be really helpful whether it's just like reading something aloud

um but then at the same time if I think that something in your research about like um stereotypes and Um, if obviously AI is generating a story from hundreds and hundreds of years of writing,

is it going to employ harmful stereotypes that we no longer use? Or even if it's taking if it's supposed to be this like

amalgamation of everything, there will be harmful stereotypes there. And it takes a human um like eye to to discern those Yeah. those problems. Absolutely. I think you've made so many great points there. I think um yeah, that's another thing that's that I talk a lot about in the report is that these systems are not it's not that these writers are anti-AII and indeed that not AI doesn't have its huge benefits to society. Um it really does

and um you know we see that within writing as well. So for example, people in focus groups who are severely dyslexic who maybe want to use AI to just kind of edit through the grammar and spelling and it gives them that confidence to share their work which is so important or

um you know if we're we're thinking more generally about AI like eyetracking software and stuff of course this kind of this it has this ability to sort of unlock creativity in certain ways but um in the in the survey I think it was 80% of people uh all respondents said that AI offers these kind of huge benefits to humanity um but only in certain kind of elements of parts of society and we want to make sure that those AI systems are responsibly designed

which means obviously ensuring that um you know they're trained on licensed data most importantly but yeah there is also this worry about the output and the stereotypes and discrimination and we saw examples of this in the focus groups actually where um there is an exercise where I get them to write a short piece of fiction and they can use a generatorized system but they don't have to.

Okay. And sometimes when they'd ask it to write certain things it would certain problematic stereotypes or sort of elements of discrimination would arise.

Obviously these systems are trained on the whole sort of probably the whole internet

and um yeah so much literature. So, it really depends on what it's picking up on and that is certainly part of making sure that they're responsibly designed as well. You know, ensuring that the output is is not discriminatory um and doesn't include these really harmful and problematic stereotypes as well. Yeah, such a good point.

And but again, that's so hard to enforce. It's hard to know where to draw the line. Is it

is it too close to censorship at that point if you're saying AI can't write this?

Um but I suppose that's why it just needs to be a discussion because then absolutely

writers can contribute people like you who know all about AI can can contribute. I mean the government needs to be involved.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I think it is about ensuring that we talk about these things before the consequences, the bad consequences arise. And um this this piece of research I think is a real is really important in that respect. I think that it shows the the kind of current um water temperature for the literary arts in in the UK um is rising to a boil. I think it's really important that the government listen to this research and and the biggest aim of it was to center the voices of these literary creatives and they are speaking very powerfully and saying that they're worried about the consequences of um irresponsibly designed AI systems. So um we need to ensure we need to ensure that they are um responsibly designed as we go forward before those consequences arise.

Yeah, I'm in full at the beginning. already arising. But I was just at the beginning of this um conversation I felt so like existential and negative. I was like AI is is taking over. But it's actually very positive that within the first 5 years of generative AI being so influential that people are already expressing their concerns and having this conversation

because hopefully it means things can be done. Yeah, absolutely. Um so what's your next step?

What's the next step? So um the report is out and uh that can be found on the Mindaroo Center for Technology and Democracy website along with a shorter policy brief which summarizes the research. And for the launch we got to speak to Professor Gina F uh chaired a conversation between myself, Kate Moss, the novelist, and Richard Kums who is the head of licensing at the ALCS which is the author's licensing and collecting society. Um, and a video of that is available online.

I'll be reading both. I'll be watching. Thank you, Ella. Thank you for such a wonderful conversation.

Thanks. I know more about generative AI than I ever thought I would. And I'm going to be I'm going to be out preaching about about the good use of it

and the bad and the bad. Yeah. No, it's been brilliant. Thank you so much. I've really enjoyed our chat. Thank you.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "The future of Novels and Generative AI"?

Ella (Host), Dr. Clementine Collet (Guest).

What is "The future of Novels and Generative AI" about?

The discussion centers around the impact of generative AI on novel writing, highlighting a reading of a story generated by AI based on a prompt from an Isaac Asimov narrative. Key points include an examination of the coherence and readability of AI-generated text, as well as the potential implications for the future of storytelling and literature.

What is mentioned in this Cambridge University episode?

19 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including generative AI, Dr. Clementine Collet, Ella, Artificial Intelligence, Mindaroo Center for Technology and Democracy, Alfred Lanning. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The future of Novels and Generative AI"?

The episode runs 44 min; the transcript is about 7,806 words in 191 timestamped sections.

More from Cambridge University

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated January 26, 2026.