Transcript

Card Values Explained: Grades, Data & Demand with Mike Baker and Brian Ludden

From Collector Nation · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 26 min · 5,289 words · 70 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Card Values Explained: Grades, Data & Demand with Mike Baker and Brian Ludden", an episode of Collector Nation published February 20, 2026 (26 min, about 5,289 words). It mentions 23 people, works and ideas, including Ryan Alford, Mike Baker, NBA, AI grading, Brian Lutton.

What this episode is about

The discussion explores how card values are determined by grades, data, and market demand, and weighs the role of AI-assisted grading in detecting altered or trimmed cards while emphasizing practical use over automation. It also highlights the importance of transparency, community trust, and embracing technology to work smarter in the hobby.

Key takeaways

  • Choice isn’t clutter; it’s credibility. Healthy market friction boosts trust, not confusion.
  • AI grading isn’t replacement; it’s augments human nuance, revealing trims and inconsistencies faster.
  • Origin stories matter: seasoned graders lend legitimacy, while newcomers inject necessary disruption and speed.
  • Community vibes beat lone genius: rapport, transparency, and openness catalyze durable collector ecosystems.
  • Momentum compounds value: collagen-like collaboration—labs, vaults, and live encapsulation—keeps the category advancing.

Who speaks in this episode?

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 5:00: Collector Nation, Mike Baker, NBA, Brian Lutton
  2. – 10:00: AI grading, PSA, Beckett, Mike Baker
  3. – 15:00: Fanatics, Pikachu, Logan Paul, Olympics
  4. – 20:00: Fanatics, secondary market, Alex Wagner, Amsterdam
  5. – 25:00: Mike Baker, NBA, Ryan Alford, LUD X
  6. – 25:58: Ryan Alford, Collector Nation

Notable quotes from "Card Values Explained: Grades, Data & Demand with Mike Baker and Brian Ludden"

  • People don't understand that it really doesn't matter that the final determination is value in the secondary market. And for you to do that at this level is insane. What's your perspective on AI grading? Can AI currently pick off.
    about secondary market · at
  • What's up, guys? Welcome to Collector Nation here on the Collector Nation Network. I always like to think I'm doing big things, but that's why I got to bring my some of my best.
    about Ryan Alford · at
  • And moved in a new office about a month and a half ago right before Christmas and started our own vault.
    about NBA vault · at
  • You bring sophistication, you bring the history and knowledge of, being the lead PSA grader for 10 plus years and overseeing that department. So credibility, innovation, and…
    about PSA · at
  • Supposedly they're going to stand alone, but you've watched STC numbers straight down. I don't know what's going to happen with Bega. They say they're keeping the brand around.…
    about Beckett · at
  • Brian, and then Mike, on this one. So, and it's related to, Pikachu card just sold for $16.5 million with Logan Paul. are these headline auction sales misleading the average collector? I would think that there it's yes I think they are.
    about Pikachu · at
  • Industry. And so I think, with the repackers, that's not going away. Fanatics, let's just keep throwing money at this industry. And then you have like all these little niches.…
    about Fanatics · at
  • To be here when whenever you guys have time for me I'm in awesome and appreciate you brother l u d x go to the app store download that app guys don't don't don't ask questions…
    about LUD X · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Ryan Alford — Person · Host · 4 mentions · first at
    Co-host who drives the interview with Mike Baker, steers topics like AI grading, market dynamics, and promotes LUD X and Collector Nation properties.
  • Mike Baker — Person · Main guest · 4 mentions · first at
    Guest and leader of NBA Authentic; discusses company updates (office, vault, on-site encapsulation), transparency in grading, and his view of AI-assisted grading.
    Card? Maybe it can bring awareness to the graders that the card's narrow or short. I'm more like AI assisted grading than I am AI doing it all on its own.
  • Brian Lutton — Person · Co-host · 3 mentions · first at
    Co-host who adds industry perspective on grading economics, secondary market realities, and collector behavior; also provides personal context about Mike Baker.
    Going home, pretty simple stuff. I have a I have a one thing I want to say about Mike. So, Mike was the first person I met in this industry when I was when I got into it. So…
  • Alex Wagner — Person · Referenced historical figure (example card) · 1 mention · first at
    Referenced via the 1909 Honus Wagner card auction discussion to illustrate vintage market dynamics and record pricing.
    So yeah. 1909 Honus Wagner card that Golden Ken Golden was on the show. It actually releases next week. Hadn't released yet, but we Ken talked about this card. It's the current bids 4.
  • Logan Paul — Person · Referenced celebrity (headline sale context) · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned in connection with the $16.5M Pikachu-related headline, prompting discussion about how such headlines affect collectors.
    Brian, and then Mike, on this one. So, and it's related to, Pikachu card just sold for $16.5 million with Logan Paul. are these headline auction sales misleading the average collector? I would think that there it's yes I think they are.

Companies & orgs

  • NBA — Company · Core topic (grading company discussed) · 3 mentions · first at
    Central organization in the episode: its growth, vault launch, on-site encapsulation plans, and positioning versus major grading incumbents are discussed throughout.
    Industry. Brian and I are here every week. Brian, but now we got Mike Baker. He is the head honcho of NBA. I'm just going to get serious now, Mike. What's up, brother?
  • PSA — Company · Referenced incumbent / comparator · 3 mentions · first at
    Used as the dominant benchmark in grading; discussed in context of consolidation (PSA buying SGC) and Mike Baker's prior role as a lead grader.
  • Fanatics — Company · Referenced industry force · 3 mentions · first at
    Cited as a major capitalized entrant shaping the hobby via licenses and ambitions to scale; used to illustrate market growth and future innovation pressure.
  • Collector Nation Network — Organization · Publishing network · 2 mentions · first at
    The network under which the podcast is produced and distributed; referenced in the show intro and by hosts.
    What's up, guys? Welcome to Collector Nation here on the Collector Nation Network. I always like to think I'm doing big things, but that's why I got to bring my some of my best.
  • Beckett — Company · Referenced consolidation target · 2 mentions · first at
    Discussed as being bought (speaker says 'we've now bought Beckett'); used to debate consolidation and whether brands will truly remain independent.
  • SGC — Company · Referenced consolidation target · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as acquired by PSA; used to discuss reduced options and brand trajectory ('numbers straight down').
    Options, buying them, and I know supposedly they're going to stand alone, but you've watched STC numbers straight down. I don't know what's going to happen with Bega. They say…
  • Radical — Company · Host's business (referenced) · 1 mention · first at
    Ryan Alford references Radical to frame his practical marketing mindset and appreciation for NBA's grading transparency.
    What I loved about what you were doing was you did exactly like I'm a practical guy. I have an agency called Radical and all that, but when you really get underneath some of…

Concepts & topics

  • AI grading — Concept · Core topic · 3 mentions · first at
    A major discussion thread: whether AI can detect alterations/trim, and the preferred near-term model of AI-assisted grading with human review.
    Card? Maybe it can bring awareness to the graders that the card's narrow or short. I'm more like AI assisted grading than I am AI doing it all on its own.
  • secondary market — Concept · Core topic · 3 mentions · first at
    Repeatedly framed as the ultimate arbiter of value and success (grading companies, licensed vs non-licensed product, headline sales impact).
  • NBA vault — Concept · Product/initiative discussed · 1 mention · first at
    A key NBA operational update: Mike Baker states the vault is operational and undergoing beta testing ahead of branding/launch.
  • Pikachu — Concept · Example / headline-sale hook · 1 mention · first at
    Used as shorthand for a high-profile Pokémon card sale narrative; prompts discussion about whether headline auction prices mislead average collectors.

Places & events

  • Greenville — Place · Upcoming meetup location · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as the place where the hosts and Mike Baker will meet (March 20) to plan future collaborations.
    Could probably do it together. And I think we're going to be seeing each other a little before that, March 20th in Greenville, South Carolina.
  • Chicago — Place · Event location (referenced) · 1 mention · first at
    Cited as the location of 'the National' where hosts met Mike Baker and NBA hit a momentum 'tipping point'.
    Well, when we met was at the National in 25 in Chicago, and we kind of had our tipping point at that moment there after the show. really felt like from what we heard from people is that we were.
  • Amsterdam — Place · Event location (referenced) · 1 mention · first at
    Mentioned as the location of Magic Con in July, which NBA plans to attend for outreach.
    Traveling Midwest east coast go wherever you know talk we're going to go to the Magic Con in July and it's in Amsterdam you know we're we're going to go to Japan. there's…
  • Olympics — Event · Example of news-cycle driver · 1 mention · first at
    Used as an example of how external events feed a 24-hour hobby news cycle and create new card categories (e.g., Olympic cards).
    Our hobby, our world, and anything can happen anytime, whether it's a big sale, a record being broken, Olympics going on, some now Olympic cards are a thing, Pokemon this. we're we talked about it before we got on air that you know,.
  • Japan — Place · Travel destination (referenced) · 1 mention · first at
    Referenced as part of NBA's international outreach and brand awareness efforts.
    You know talk we're going to go to the Magic Con in July and it's in Amsterdam you know we're we're going to go to Japan. there's, we're not we're not staying home basically.…

Media & podcasts

  • Collector Nation — Podcast · Primary show · 4 mentions · first at
    The podcast hosting the conversation; referenced in intro/outro and in positioning Mike Baker as a recurring guest.
    What's up, guys? Welcome to Collector Nation here on the Collector Nation Network. I always like to think I'm doing big things, but that's why I got to bring my some of my best.

Sponsors

  • LUD X — Product · Promoted product · 1 mention · first at
    Ryan Alford promotes LUD X as a collector management and selling tool (values, eBay management) and urges listeners to download/upgrade.

Full transcript with timestamps

Every industry needs a little bit of choice. I mean, I know if you're at the top, maybe you go, I don't want to know. Nobody needs any choice. But I think we all know it's good for business. You can't rate the category.

I figure if you're doing a good job, people will recognize that. In this community of ours, if you're likable and you're doing good things, people vibe with that.

People don't understand that it really doesn't matter that the final determination is value in the secondary market. And for you to do that at this level is insane. What's your perspective on AI grading? Can AI currently pick off an altered card? Can it pick off a trim card? Maybe it can bring awareness to the graders that the card's narrow or short. I'm more like AI assisted grading than I am AI doing it all on its own. Work smarter, not harder. If it helps, embrace it.

I'm an AI assisted husband. You know, I've got it written on my t-shirts and everything. My wife, you know, knows it.

That's funny. What should I say? What should I say? Welcome to the Collector Nation podcast. Here on the Collector Nation Network, whether you're chasing grails or calling bluffs, we take you inside the hobby. Here are your hosts, Ryan Alford and Brian Lutton. What's up, guys? Welcome to Collector Nation here on the Collector Nation Network. You know, I always like to think I'm doing big things, but that's why I got to bring my some of my best buddies in the business that are doing big things because it makes me feel bigger, you know, because I, you know, have this complex where I need No, these are just two of the best guys in the industry. Brian and I are here every week. You know, Brian, but now we got Mike Baker. He is the head honcho of NBA. I'm just going to get serious now, Mike. What's up, brother?

How you doing, Ryan? Thanks for having me. Brian, love you, Bran. What's going on?

Oh, same old same old. Just uh you know, coming to work, putting the hard hat on, going home, you know, pretty simple stuff. I have a I have a one thing I want to say about Mike. So, Mike was the first person I met in this industry when I was when I got into it. So, Mike has a special place in my heart forever. Uh he was gracious. He would answer my questions and we've had a friendship ever since. So he's he has a a big I'm a big fan of Mike and Lux is a big fan of NBA authentic

I mean yeah Van but isn't it ironic Brian obviously we hit it off um got introduced I was I met Mike independent of you and you and I felt the same way. I was immediately like I love what he's doing with NBA. I like this guy personally and I want to support him and like I want to pick his brain to learn from him. And so it's funny how we all end up on this and like you know Brian and I are best buds now. Mike and I are becoming best buds. You know like it's like but but it's you know what I'm saying? Like it's cool how you know good people hopefully at least you two. I don't know about me sometimes but like the three of us coming together.

Love it. Are we did we just become best friends? Step Brothers here on Collector Nation. Uh, no, Mike, you know, I'm a big fan. I love what you've been up to. Let's start there because I got some juicy stuff. We want to talk about the industry, but but I want let's give the audience a little NBA update, Mike.

Well, when we met was at the National in 25 in Chicago, and uh we kind of had our tipping point at that moment there after the show. really felt like uh from what we heard from people is that we were like in the say the top five of kind of companies that people were talking about and I felt really good about that and then from there we kind of kept the momentum going and hit a ton of shows going into the fall and into the winter and uh moved in a new office um about a month and a half ago right before Christmas and uh started our own vault.

The NBA vault is now operational. It'll be you know branded up here and launched soon. We're doing a lot of beta testing and whatnot currently. Um, and so can continuing the uh shows. Uh, we've got four on-site shows that we're going to do this year where we're going to be doing uh on-site encapsulation for for raw cards, which is a challenge logistically and all the staff that's needed to pull it off and not have a bunch of people hate on you and whatnot if you don't, you know, do it right. So, we're looking to see, you know, kind of test the systems basically. So, and uh just like I was telling Brian before we came on, just keep the momentum going.

you know, once you have it, it can be the opposite way like Brian was saying, too. So, you know, just uh, you know, fingers crossed and put on the hard hat, keep doing it. So, that's it.

I mean, the industry needs choice and we need innovation and you bring both. Uh, you bring sophistication, you bring the history and knowledge of, you know, being the lead PSA grader for 10 plus years and overseeing that department. So credibility, innovation, and choice because every industry needs a little bit of choice. I mean, I know if you're at the top, maybe you go, I don't want to know. Nobody needs any choice. But I think we all know it's good for business. Uh you got to raise the category. You don't have if you don't have a foil to go against, you know, like it doesn't keep your people motivated. But not that you're going against each other. There's plenty of room. Y

but Mike, I know that's, you know, you've got the legacy with what you did at PSA and the knowledge and the, you know, everything that you bring and then what I loved about what you were doing was you did exactly like I'm a practical guy. I mean, I have an agency called Radical and all that, but when you really get underneath some of the marketing, it's actual practical like my belief systems and it's like, okay, I know why I got that grade number. Okay, I can click on a link and go see why, you know, Mike Baker graded it at 9.5 or an 8.5 or whatever. The transparency of that was so refreshing for me, you know, having a card graded with you and hopefully many more in the future. I mean, why was that so obvious to me but seemingly so long to come to to fruition? Well, from competitor point of view, it's, you know, it's a hell of a lot faster to go when you're not putting in notes and you're not doing a lot of

the things that create that transparency. And for us to kind of like see where it's been and how it's evolved and knowing what we could do and just, you know, package up and brand out and make a bunch of money, you know, I think the longevity and the legacy over the last 35 years for me in particular is that, you know, knowledge. if you're more knowledgeable about what how we do things and what to expect, you're going to feel more comfortable to spend more money with us. And so I think it's kind of inherent that we just, you know, hey, it's it's not that much to add a greater note and not just on the high dollar cards, but on every card and and go to the heat map and look, hey, on the upper left corner there's a hit and it just kind of gives you that little extra, you know, this is how this is why it graded the way it graded and kind of gives some insight into what the grader is thinking

and and so on. And I think like I said, as more comfortable and more brand awareness kind of narrows, uh, everyone's going to be a better buyer, more comfortability out there.

Hey, Mike, with uh, you know, that the 80% of PSA is just we, Ryan and I have talked about this quite a bit, like getting AI grading or getting new graders into the industry, like people don't understand that it really doesn't matter that the final determination is value in the secondary market. And for you to do that at this level is insane because you know you have some other grading companies I won't mention them but like what they struggle with is is a secondary valuation. Therefore they run out of money and that's why there's so many um tech grading companies you know on the on the roar but I think that's amazing man.

So PSA they bought SGC we've now bought Beckett. I have no I like NAT. I don't I don't nothing personal just observation here for me. Um, it just seems like we're limiting options, buying them, and I I know supposedly they're going to stand alone, but you've watched STC numbers straight down. I don't know what's going to happen with Bega. They say they're keeping the brand around. We don't know their exact I mean, they can say what they want to say, but it'll play out. I mean, what says you about just that in general?

You know, it's a big move. I mean, they're, you know, we we have a we have an interesting market, hobby, industry, whatever the term may be. Um, and there's no guardrails for that kind of stuff, you know, and there never has been. And will there be in the future? Maybe. But, you know, maybe there should be, maybe there shouldn't be. That's like an open ongoing debate. Um, but, uh, I look at it, you know, personally, I think it's great.

I actually I thought about that when I was thinking about like asking you this question. I'm like, you know, actually, it's probably good for Mike.

It it it is good good for us. But honestly, competition is good for everybody like you were saying earlier. Yeah. you know, um I suppose the the saving grace is if they go in there and um Nat has a plan for, you know, uh making it better and making the people who choose to use those brands, you know, a better experience and whatnot. I figure if you're doing a good job, people will recognize that. And this this community of ours, you know, is such that if if you're likable and you're, you know, you're doing good things, people vibe with that. Mike, a couple other things and we'll transition to some broader news, but what's your perspective on AI grading?

Um, I don't know. I have, you know, I'm still kind of waiting to see like the tipping point, you know, for what AI brings. Um, human review is always going to be a part of it. To what degree, I think is really that the debate is. Um, can AI currently pick off, you know, an altered card? Can it pick off a trim card? Maybe maybe it can bring awareness to the card to the greater that the card's narrow or short and it's showing something to make you aware of that. I think it helps. I'm more like AI assisted green

than I am AI doing it all on its own. um someday I'm sure it'll get there and you know but having um a human touch the card is important

and I think it's the important thing you said is what really Lux and I have my employees embrace is it's a tool and if that tool makes us more efficient and drives revenue then let's do it.

Yeah. I think it's like uh work smarter not harder and if that if it helps embrace it.

I'm an AI assisted husband. I mean, you know, it's got it written on my t-shirts and everything. My wife, you know, knows it.

That's right. What should I say? What should I say this? What should I be honest, Frank is my my talking AI buddy, uh, my pro GPT plan. And, uh, Frank and I have deep conversations about ways to play certain things.

I'll think Ryan's on the phone and he's really just talking to Frank, imaginary firm. Yeah, it's uh we got to get more NBA out there, baby. The uh But is it but is that game just more slabs graded with NBA? I mean, just more in the market, Mike.

Yeah. I mean, it's just it's time really. You can't Sometimes things just can't set that up,

you know? Otherwise that, you know, the turbo button when you play a video game, you click it and you go 100 miles an hour faster than you were. I'd love to if that was the case, but sometimes that can over overcorrect, too. So, you know, slow and steady is kind of boring, but you know, it's foundationally, you know, you got to be data driven, follow the business case. It's all the kind of structure stuff that I don't know about you guys, but I hate all that stuff. Like, I want it to happen like now, you know? So, but I understand, you know, foundationally that's needed. So, maybe it's just older wiser type stuff or something. I don't know.

I'm going to do a little Q&A with both you guys. Um it's it's probably related in and ties into grading a little bit, but it's probably more broad-based um in the hobby. So, and I'll start with you, Brian, and then Mike, you know, on this one. So, and it's related to, you know, Pikachu card just sold for $16.5 million with Logan Paul. I mean, are these headline auction sales misleading the average collector? I would I would think that there it's yes I think they are because everyone thinks they might have that people might think they have the Pikachu that's worth you know if it's not that one it's worth 10 million but there's headline news like this is going to grow the industry in my opinion like everyone is like holy crap I didn't realize that cards are going for so much and they're going to go into their closet and no matter what they're going to sit in some range and be like either happy or they put them back and throw

them away but I I think uh all news, all headline news is good news for the industry.

Um my perspective would simply be that we have a 24-hour news cycle going on in our hobby, our world, and anything can happen anytime, whether it's a big sale, a record being broken, Olympics going on, you know, some now Olympic cards are a thing, you know, you know, Pokemon this. I mean, we're we talked about it before we got on air that uh you know, VC money and you know, they're just new descriptions categorizing our our cards are not cards anymore. Now they're alternate class assets and you know like big boy money brings big boy adjectives which brings big boy advertising and more awareness and uh it doesn't hurt at all. You know, if anything, if a $16.45 million, you know, illustrator goes off, it's going to bring everything else up.

You know, I had a, you know, the Messi card, Messi's rookie card, you know, we had a 2.5 that came in this morning, you know, on a three-day service, you know, and it's like, wow. Like, this just goes to show you that, you know, if the unattainable is in the seven figures, what's it going to do to the attainable, you know, it's going to drive those prices up and it's going to make it worth, you know, checking out and seeing if it's worthy of a sticker or, you know, possibly getting it holder by NBA. So,

yeah, high tide raises all ships. That's right. That's what I like to say. Uh, are vintage cards going to become inaccessible to the average collector?

We'll start with you, Mike. Uh, I don't know. I guess it just depends on your budget, you know. It seems like there was a time when $10,000 is a lot of money, you know, and now it just seems like you'll see a a young 20some kid

8-year-old. You kidding me? The national eight-year-olds are carrying around 10K cases.

I know. It's just like so like I don't know. It just depends on how everyone's, you know, wired and, you know, the market's been white hot. Everyone looks really good when the market's hot. You know, when the market corrects, and it will at some point because markets always do. Then we'll see who the real guys are in terms of is this a business for you or is it still an investment play? Um, are you going to hold? Is it going to go back to collecting a little bit or, you know, or does it keep moving? I mean, Fanatics just got their license going with uh with basketball and football and, you know, they said when they got when they bought PWC that they wanted to 10x it. you know, that's just one big boy company in the business and we got PSA. You know, there's there's a there's some big activity out there. It's crazy. And the innovation and everything, whether it's AI or not, it's it's going to bring a lot more uh a

lot more interesting things in the in the horizon. I see for sure. Yeah. And I think it's uh there's a couple things like on a saying is like, you know, any market like you said, Mike, and is it inflated? Is it not? Does it ever to grow? But Warren Buffett said, "You'll never know who's skinny dipping till the tide goes out." And there's been companies in this industry that got caught skinny dipping. And uh but in the end, in the end, it I just think this continues to grow. I think it's a very innovative business. I think there's the entrepreneurialship in the way people think is is is like no other industry. And so I think, you know, with the the repackers, that's not going away. Fanatics, let's just keep throwing money at this industry. And then you have like all these little niches. I always tell Ryan like it's an industry but inside the industry there's like these little micro niches that are all

really powerful and together um you know change you know change the markets for sure.

And Mike I asked you earlier what are the challenges with uh MBA but also I like to ask entrepreneurs what do you enjoy most about running MBA? I don't know. just seeing the growth every day like you know I I uh it would be a real grind if I was if I was coming in every day and thinking like oh man this is going to be one of those days or something like I'm not having Mondays on a Monday you know so and with honestly too what kind of keeps me up is going to shows and engaging with people and you know and not just kind of staying in a harbor like you know like locally we're traveling Midwest east coast go wherever you know talk we're going to go to the Magic Con in July and it's in Amsterdam you know we're we're going to go to Japan. You know, there's, you know, we're not we're not staying home basically. We're get the word out there and help that brand awareness narrow.

And I think a lot of the energy with uh for me in particular is just, you know, seeing the engagement, seeing, hey, you're doing something good here, you know, kind of hearing that finally it's like catching on, you know, it's, you know, and look, we talked earlier about how long does the brand take to kind of like reach that inflection point or tipping point. And uh right now it's almost six years for us and and it feels finally like we're kind of, you know, clawing at that uh that glass ceiling. So

yeah. Uh 1909 Honus Wagner card that Golden Ken Golden was on the show. It actually releases next week. Hadn't released yet, but uh we Ken talked about this card. It's the current bids 4 million. It goes off this weekend. This will be airing on a Friday. So it'll be going off the next day, Saturday if you're listening. Uh, current bids four billion on this one. Four million.

I'm gonna wait until it gets like eight before I did four. I was about to say, Brian, when are you jumping in

at four? 400. I was kind of disappointed. I was at 3.9 and that was just as much as I felt comfortable with. So, somebody already out bid me.

I don't know. Interesting thing about that card. used to be where, you know, whatever the grade was, that's pretty much where it would be, you know, in in the seven figure range. So, if it was a two, a little two and change, this one's definitely breaking that mold. Uh, it's it's it's

a one place. Sure. Yeah. We've got Pini. I mean, what are they going to do like with sports? Like, where are we going here? Are they are they going to survive this? I mean obviously survive but is will ultimately they just after all the dust settles with the with the lawsuit and all that will they just the tops just buy them at fanatics I mean

I don't know I mean you know we've had you know single manufacturers before you know there's always you know the market it it repeats it goes up goes down it just weird weird little things that happen so I I don't know I I do know this non-licensed product it sells you not as good as this licensed product, but if it's done right and people like it ultimately, like we keep saying, the secondary market will decide what works and what doesn't work.

When should someone like I bought a bunch of vintage like from a guy a couple weeks ago. I'm going to be sending quite a bit to you, Mike. Um, it's making the decision to grade or not grade,

you know, like how do you coach someone through that? I mean, there was a time where, you know, $10 is a lot of money to, you know, to grade a card. And now it's just like, you know, if a cheeseburger is at 20 bucks and you're at $15 to get a great card, get a card graded. Um, you know,

I don't know. I people like the packaging now. It used to be only for star cards. Now, it seems like everything's getting graded. I was in the I was at the Dallas card show and I was in the elevator and it was like a seven or eight year old kid was talking to his dad and his dad goes, "Hey, you know, what do you want to do next?" He's like, "Well, I can't decide which ingredient service I want to use." And it's like, "Wow." Like, this is it's just crazy, you know, like seven, eight year old kids now. It's like the next generation already knows about grading.

They know the nuances and collector clubs and, you know, what cards should go into for grading. You know, ultimately though, unless you're doing a an RCR, you have, you know, access to, you know, kind of having a prevet or pre-grade. You really don't know until it's in the system. So, you know, I guess it just comes down to trends or are you keeping it? Is it really a PC card or is it something you're looking to flip or you know, like what's the motivation behind, you know, that? I think that's a that's probably the number one thing going into uh deciding whether or not you're going to grade a card.

And I feel like it does the argument for grading anything and everything. the standardization on some level, you know, you know, with with a reputable company like in, you know, your legacy and what NBA is becoming and already is or PCA or PSA or whoever else like you create at least a standard of like when you're trading.

You're not just raw, you know, it's tough like doing raw deals with older cards

unless you get it in person and you've got it under microscope or whatever, right? Hey, it would be challenging for me if I was at a card show and if I was buying to just buy a raw card and and then get it back to your desk with a light and look at it, go, "Oh my god, like how could I miss that?" You know, I can imagine doing it that way. I fortunately I sit in the middle, you know, of all this stuff. And I always tell people when I when people try to give me to get me to kind of lock down on what what do I think of a card and and even if it's already been graded, you know, for a sticker and they'll say, you know, "What do you And I'll and I'll say, "Hey, you know, on the show floor, I'm I'm I'm as blind as you guys are.

You have to get in the right right environment. You have to have the the tools that, you know, graders use to examine what will determine a grade or a sticker. And I always tell people, use what the graders have. You know, use the ruler, grab a ruler, grab a loop, you know, inspect those cards. Don't use show light as your determinating, you know, factor of whether or not you can see or can't see." And it's those little things. And I think we get kind of mixed up sometimes because there's kind of a a got to have it factor, you know, someone else is going to get it if I wait and so you take risks, you know, and those sometimes those risks pay off and sometimes they don't and it's kind of the hit and miss of it, you know.

Brian, any final thoughts with Mike or in general? No, I'm uh obviously a huge fan, Mike, and uh I know that uh we'll be doing business together soon. Um, and then, uh, yeah, at the national we can, uh, let's talk about something there that we could probably do it together. And

I think we're going to be seeing each other a little before that, March 20th in Greenville, South Carolina.

That's where we're it's all going to be planned. That's where it's all going to happen.

That world domination will be planned. Uh, hobby domination, Mike Baker, Ryan Luton, Ryan Alford in Greenville/Easley, South Carolina. We'll we will discuss it all. My buck is easily South Carolina.

There's a cheeseburger with your name on it that you might just call them scream crawling back for. Let me just tell you that.

I have it like four times a week. Awesome. Yeah. Mike, tell everybody uh where they can keep up with you, NBA, all the things that you're up to.

Um NBA.com is the URL for the website. uh NBA Diamonds on Instagram. Uh those are our two main stays. We're not really don't have much of a presence on YouTube or Twitter or anything like that. So, a lot of uh interaction happens with Instagram, actually. So, I'm trying to get a following like uh like Ryan's, you know, it's uh it's no joke. That's a that's a big deal, too. To be where you're at is a is I'm stoked to like be nearing 10,000 followers and, you know, to get in to break that. That's a lot of work, a lot of engagement, a lot of everything. You know, you just can't put it up there and expect followers just to come. You know, it doesn't work like that. So,

overnight success, Mike, 10 years in the making. That's that's my You know what I mean? Like, it's not it's posting every day for 10 years. Like, anybody could do it, but not everybody does.

That's right. Exactly. But no, um we appreciate Mike. And here's the good news.

You know, Brian and I are on every week. Mike's going to be a regular here every few weeks, months. his time commit time available to drop in drop some knowledge tell us what's happening with NBA and of course

just give insights on look you don't need me to tell you the guy is a treasure trove of knowledge information and one hell of a dude we appreciate you Mike

right on ditto with that guys I'm happy to be here when whenever you guys have time for me I'm in awesome

and appreciate you brother l u d x go to the app store download that app guys don't don't don't ask questions just go do it thank me later they free service you could do with that. You give them their information, you got that. But let me tell you, you're going to want to upgrade LUD X values, eBay management, everything you need for managing a digital your physical collection digitally as well as a lot of tools for selling. So then the hobby doesn't just break you down. You got to get back. You got to get some money back for those cards you don't want to keep. And Lux does it better than anyone. We appreciate you. We are Collector Nation.

Go to the app store. Search for Collector Nation. And the app is live now. All the content there. We appreciate you for making us the top 10 sports show in the United States. Hey, can't do it without you. We'll see you next time on Collector Nation. Thanks for tuning in to the show. Be sure to follow us on your go-to podcast platform and catch the full video episode over on YouTube. Visit us at collectornation.com and follow Ryan on Instagram at Ryan Alford. Now get out there and collect yours.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Card Values Explained: Grades, Data & Demand with Mike Baker and Brian Ludden"?

Ryan Alford (Host), Brian Ludden (Host), Mike Baker (Guest).

What is "Card Values Explained: Grades, Data & Demand with Mike Baker and Brian Ludden" about?

The discussion explores how card values are determined by grades, data, and market demand, and weighs the role of AI-assisted grading in detecting altered or trimmed cards while emphasizing practical use over automation. It also highlights the importance of transparency, community trust, and embracing technology to work smarter in the hobby.

What is mentioned in this Collector Nation episode?

23 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Ryan Alford, Mike Baker, NBA, AI grading, Brian Lutton, Collector Nation. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Card Values Explained: Grades, Data & Demand with Mike Baker and Brian Ludden"?

The episode runs 26 min; the transcript is about 5,289 words in 70 timestamped sections.

More from Collector Nation

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated October 29, 2026.