The Next Collectibles Boom Won’t Look Like the Last One and THIS is Why | Shivam Patel

What this episode is about

The discussion revolves around the evolving landscape of collectibles, emphasizing the role of corporations like the Pokémon Company International in shaping the market and the influence of scalpers. Notably, the speaker advises collectors to seek items with inherent complexities or multiple layers of collectibility, as these factors can signal future value growth in a market that might not mirror previous trends.

Key takeaways

• Collectibles thrive in scarcity; when the average Joe struggles to collect, the value skyrockets.
• The collectible bubble of 2020 burst like a pinata—this time feels more sustainable, not so sugary.
• Digital tools are the new treasure maps for collectors—tracking value's ups and downs just got a glow-up.
• When Pokemon prints less, demand rises; it’s capitalism with a dash of nostalgia, causing prices to dance.
• Skeptics beware: the latest value spikes in collectibles might just be the organic growth we’ve been waiting for.

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Pokémon, Collector Nation, Ben Alfred, Card Ladder
2. 5:00 – 10:00: Pokémon, The Pokémon Company International
3. 10:00 – 15:00: Pokémon, Jazwares, San Diego Comic-Con, Singapore Comic Con
4. 15:00 – 20:00: Pokémon, Facebook, Hollywood, Instagram
5. 20:00 – 21:05: collectornation.com, Ben Alfred, Collectibles.show, Collector Nation

Notable quotes from "The Next Collectibles Boom Won’t Look Like the Last One and THIS is Why | Shivam Patel"

• These corporations such as the Pokemon Company International, they love scalpers. My advice is kind of look where no one else is looking and apply the logic of whether or not that item.

  about Pokémon · at 0:00

• Especially because I get to talk to cool guys doing some fun And we got one today. It's Shiv Patel. He is, he didn't want me to call him a Pokemon expert, but I think he might…

  about Shiv Patel · at 1:02

• A good thing as long as it's not subtractive. So I think like applications like card ladder or you have collector like these applications that basically take an account of like what your tangible asset portfolio is. I think those are.

  about Card Ladder · at 4:08

• Was just in Singapore. and I got asked to come out there to produce content for Singapore Comic-Con. So, I work in tandem with a lot of these different conventions and if…

  about Singapore Comic Con · at 13:34

• [snorts] I think Yu-Gi-Oh is something that is slept on. I think one medium that is going to be I give it here in the next like five years and this is just my perspective because I'm taking it very.

  about Yu-Gi-Oh! · at 17:17

• Yeah. so on Instagram, I'm not Shivam. I don't know how I came up with that name, but I just have it. on YouTube it's @ it'svaulted like you're going to vault something. so I have.

  about Instagram · at 19:27

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Ben Alfred — Person · 2 mentions · first at 0:35
  Are you ready to collect? Let's get at it. Here's your host, Ryan Alfred.
• Shiv Patel — Person · 2 mentions · first at 1:07
• Logan Paul — Person · 1 mention · first at 1:42
  Spiking in values across the board with just anything is going up in value. you have Logan Paul selling off his Pikachu Illustrator through Golden. you have people just in the…
• Gustav Klimt — Person · 1 mention
• Ken Goldin — Person · 1 mention

Companies & orgs

• Pokémon — Company · 19 mentions · first at 0:00
• Collector Nation — Company · 3 mentions · first at 0:22
  Welcome to the Collector Nation podcast on the Radcast Network. From chasing grails to calling bluffs, we're going inside the hobby.
• The Pokémon Company International — Company · 2 mentions · first at 0:00
  These corporations such as the Pokemon Company International, they love scalpers. My advice is kind of look where no one else is looking and apply the logic of whether or not that item.
• Instagram — Company · 2 mentions · first at 19:27
• collectornation.com — Company · 2 mentions · first at 20:16
  Collectibles.show is the current URL. We will be moving to the collectornation.com.
• Radcast Network — Company · 1 mention · first at 0:24
  Welcome to the Collector Nation podcast on the Radcast Network. From chasing grails to calling bluffs, we're going inside the hobby.
• Golden — Company · 1 mention · first at 1:48
  Value. you have Logan Paul selling off his Pikachu Illustrator through Golden. you have people just in the constant conversation of whether or not is this space a bubble or not?
• Card Ladder — Company · 1 mention · first at 4:11
• Singapore Comic Con — Company · 1 mention · first at 13:39
• San Diego Comic-Con — Company · 1 mention · first at 13:47
  Collectible avenue there, then I'm usually involved in that kind of capacity. Whether it's that San Diego Comic- Con, New York City Comic- Con, it's not just limited to just cards.
• Jazwares — Company · 1 mention · first at 14:01
  Major publishers in the anime space as well as well as companies, toy companies as well, like such as Jazwares and so on and so forth. So, like I dabble in a lot of different…
• Yu-Gi-Oh! — Company · 1 mention · first at 17:18
• Hollywood — Company · 1 mention · first at 17:42
  In the United States. It's been happening for quite some time now. You look at Hollywood as an example and this is and just follow along with me. Yeah, a lot of major movies are failing. and that's why we see a lot of sequels.
• Facebook — Company · 1 mention · first at 19:45
  I'm just mostly on Instagram and YouTube and Facebook.
• Collectibles.show — Company · 1 mention · first at 20:11
  Hey guys, you want to find us, collectibles.show is the current URL. We will be moving to the collectornation.com.
• Collector (app) — Company · 1 mention
• Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba – The Movie: Mugen Train — Company · 1 mention
• New York Comic Con — Company · 1 mention

Products & tech

• Pikachu Illustrator — Product · 1 mention · first at 1:45
  Just anything is going up in value. you have Logan Paul selling off his Pikachu Illustrator through Golden. you have people just in the constant conversation of whether or not is this space a bubble or not?

Concepts & topics

• Anime — Concept · 6 mentions
• 10,000-hour rule — Concept · 2 mentions
• Animation cel — Concept · 2 mentions
• Gotta catch 'em all — Concept · 1 mention
• MSRP — Concept · 1 mention

Places & events

• Mooresville, North Carolina — Place · 1 mention

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 These corporations such as the Pokemon Company International, they love scalpers. My advice is kind of look where no one else is looking and apply the logic of whether or not that item has multiple layers of collectibility. So, if it's very difficult for the average individual to collect or if it's difficult for a collector to collect, that's kind of like something to pay attention to.

0:22 Welcome to the Collector Nation podcast on the Radcast Network. From chasing grails to calling bluffs, we're going inside the hobby. Are you ready to collect? Let's get at it. Here's your host, Ryan Alfred.

0:40 Hello and welcome to Collector Nation here on the Collector Nation podcast network. We appreciate you for tuning in wherever you are, whenever you are. We never know when people are listening. You can be whenever you want, however you want. New media at its best. We're not linear, you know. That's why I love it. That's why I love content and that's why I love this space, especially because I get to talk to cool guys doing some fun And we got one today. It's Shiv Patel. He is, you know, he didn't want me to call him a Pokemon expert, but I think he might be a Pokemon expert, but he is. We're going to call him a master collector of all things fun, engaging, and he does a lot of storytelling himself on social media.

1:23 Well, I mean, what's happening when you know like what's what's happening in the collectible space? Like what's what's the state of the union?

1:30 I I mean, like there's a there's a lot of interesting things that are going on, right? Like you have Pokemon and just collectibles all in all just like spiking in values across the board with just anything anything is going up in value. Um, you have Logan Paul selling off his uh Pikachu Illustrator through Golden. you have people just in the constant conversation of whether or not is this space a bubble or not? Especially when you have like people like Ken Golden, you know, saying that, hey, like this is this is a space to be in for the next 5 to 10 years. Then you have a lot of institutional uh foundations uh financial institutions coming into play. Um, there's just a lot of interesting things that are going on and I mean, you know, like you said, it's it's it's a blessed time to be alive and it's just a very interesting timeline that we're in right now where, you know, we can have a career through

2:20 collectibles. Yeah, it's interesting. I And, you know, I got brought back in. And I had four, you know, four boys coming up that got into Pokemon, got into sports cards. And so, you know, I started pointing my network and, you know, into this and seeing the business opportunities and also my love and passion for it got rekindled. I didn't actually experience the bubble, if you want to call it, of sort of the the uh, you know, 2020 and everything with that. But it feels different according to people that I talked to with what's happening now. It it seems more sustainable. But it's hard not to, you know, you see the jumps in prices. You see the cards selling for what they are. So there's natural skepticism but

3:06 where do you fall on this pendulum? I think I I I think I agree with that sort of sentiment that you've received so far where like this one feels a lot more organic in nature. Like sure, like some people will be skeptical about it, but this is this feels a lot more organic versus 2020 where 2020, you know, you have COVID, you have so many things that are happening in place where everything just spiked tremendously in value and then it just came down um almost just as quick. But then, you know, prices kind of sustained itself.

3:34 And I think that's what gave a lot more collectors and a lot more people on the outside looking in a little bit more perspective in regards to whether or not they want to participate in the space um in that aspect. But yeah, like I I agree with that sentiment entirely.

3:47 What do you think about like as far as like digital collect collection management and scanning and you know that whole [clears throat] gamut of innovation?

3:55 I like it. I I think I think that space is great to have. Um I think it's more additive. I don't think it's ever subtractive. So any I'm I'm all about if it's additive to a space or if it's additive to something then that's always a good thing as long as it's not subtractive. So I think like applications like card ladder or or you have collector um like these applications that basically take an account of like what your uh tangible asset portfolio is. I think those are cool things. I think that's kind of awesome. It makes like the more the more we do this and the more time progresses and the more value is attributed to these sort of collectibles than the impact that those collectibles will have on an on an individual's life then I think it's great to have things that kind of keep track of those types of things. What's the the state of Pokemon with everything else? I mean, is it um healthy? Seems like

4:45 I think so. Yeah. I I personally think that Pokemon is an extremely healthy place. Pokemon is a type of company that has always kind of printed to demand. Um sometimes they don't and it c it pretty much creates movement such as this right now. Like in the last like year and a half or so, Pokemon hasn't really printed to demand. And when that kind of happens, the the entry point for most collectors uh to be able to get, you know, what was accessible product becomes extremely difficult. And and when that kind of demand gets bigger and bigger and bigger, then it creates much more of an upward trend as far as this hobby goes.

5:20 So like that's where that's why I think it's a little bit of of an organic thing. Like at the end of the day, like whenever Pokemon does slow its role in terms of production, then you know value does spike. And that did happen back in like 2019 um around that time. Um like right now though I will say it's even healthier because uh for the collector that wants to be able to get you know products it's tough. But just recently I know that in Morrisville, North Carolina they just leased out a brand new printing facility for Pokemon. So like now that might make you know the availability of Pokemon products a little bit easier for the person. So like I think I think at the end of the day it's like very very healthy in my opinion. How do you feel about the the scalping, if you want to call it that? I mean, I I personally don't call it that. I'd call it more just entrepreneurial behavior on some

6:09 level. But where do you fall on that? This is a hot take that I have with most of with with some of my friends who also agree with me. I think these corporations such as the Pokemon Company International, they love scalpers. I think that and the reason why is because scalping is a direct indication of demand and value behind their brand. And so um if if everyone can get the same thing, then there's really no value behind, you know, that specific item or that brand. It kind of dilutes the brand in that kind of fashion. If everyone can get it, then there's no like want behind it. And so I I see that. And then I also see the side of like the average person who like wants to be able to buy like MSRP related product, but it's never on shelves. So they're they're ending up having to spend, you know, quite a bit more just to be able to get the products that they want. So like there's both sides of it, but I'm I don't really

7:02 think it's an entirely a bad thing. Yeah, it's very uh uh insightful take especially on the brand thing. Uh you you couldn't be more right. uh cuz when there's demand like that and the empty shelves and it does increase brand value and demand and it's it is an interesting slippery slope though of both sides of you know I understand it but they're also

7:30 you know okay the guy comes in and he takes all 20 boxes okay well 19 other people could have gotten them you're still not going to have enough for you'd still have the complaining you know so it's like I haven't ever been in Walmart and seen 400 boxes get taken out. It's usually, you know, 20 or 30 boxes, which is, you know, might seem excessive, but it's not it's not so much. I think the question really becomes more to your point at the very beginning, which is the printing, you know, are we ever going to get to the point where that just goes away because there's just too much. Are they going to allow that to kind of continue?

8:06 I don't think it'll ever continue just cuz like there there's only like a limited amount of printing facilities available. Yeah, Pokemon if they wanted to, they can, you know, build from the ground up a brand new facility to print more, but like that process is still relatively slow. Um, I think I think with that plus the fact that there that there are and I think that and when I say they are, I know that there are institutional fundings like financial institutionals that are coming into this space that are throwing in lots and lots of dollars and money into this space. I think that's going to create a either one or two things. I think it can basically grow prices even organically as long as they're not pushing, you know, pushing down on the gas pedal hard enough or if they push down hard enough, it can go pretty parabolic. But yeah, I just I just think that like for the average consumer for being able to

8:54 collect collectibles, it is tough and it is, you know, if you're there waiting in line trying to get something. Not everyone is going to get something, but like that's that's with anything collectibles related. Like not you're not going to have you're not going to always have what you want. And like what's make what makes it difficult in the Pokemon space is that Pokemon when they first came out in the United States, the tagline was got to catch them all. And you know, people took that very very seriously and very and to heart. But like Pokemon themselves stopped using that tagline within a couple of years uh of its release here in the United States cuz like they knew that you can't really catch it all and that and like even in the video games you can't catch it all. So, like people in Pokemon should also like understand that as well that you just can't catch it all. And that's like the beauty of

9:40 it, right? Like being able to work hard, being able to grind it out to be able to get the one or two things that you want. There's merit to that. And I think that, you know, then there's like the aspect of like you have a lot of people who feel like they're entitled because like they feel close and personable with the hobby that they have and the joy that they have with it. Um, there's a lot of, you know, discussions that we can have on that. Yeah. I and as you were talking it reminded I've had this thought a few times. If it was as available as these people want they wouldn't want it as bad.

10:15 You know talk about meta being a little meta but it is it's true. Like if if it was if there were 400 boxes on the shelf every time you went in the store you wouldn't want it either you know. Absolutely. So

10:28 the the scarcity on some level, I think we can argue whether it's scarce. I wouldn't call it scarce, but the the level of scarcity drives that interest from the person that's complaining about it not being on the shelf at retail.

10:42 Yeah. Someone listening, they're they're pokey curious. Pokemon curious. What's your uh advice to them of how to entry into this or things to look at? I think like the biggest thing is getting your 10,000 hours in. Kind of like watching what people are doing, consuming content, asking questions, uh staying off on the sidelines, being very very open-minded. Um and then understanding how uh adverse you'd like to be as far as risk goes. Like I think that's like a big thing. Um but I think like that's just that's just how it is. Putting your 10 thou 10,000 hours in. If you really enjoy it, then participate. Uh, collect kind of like what you want to collect. And like I think that's just like the biggest thing. Um, my biggest thing was that in the beginning I was ripping packs and as a content creator like that at that time that's the only way people were making content. And so like within a month I

11:40 was like I just spent $700 just to try and create a video that didn't generate me any revenue. So at that point I was like I'm going to take it upon myself to kind of create content that's more educational and more informative. um where where I'm not talking about the the the the degeneracy side, the degeneracy side as far as ripping packs goes and just creating a aformational way of being able to uh uh uh collect. And so like not necessarily ripping packs, but maybe just buying the car that you want um is the better avenue and that's that that avenue is usually the more financially safe and financially responsible um route. Um, granted, this entire space is kind of predicated on the gambling nature of being able to open open something. So, like,

12:24 yeah, at least I about to say at least we got to at least acknowledge it. It is.

12:29 Yeah. But I do tell people that kind of that go down that route. I'm like, yeah, but the slot machine, you pull it 500 times and spend the money and you lose. You You win nothing. And scratch cards. Yeah. Scratch cards, you know, Yeah. you might you're you're playing for lottery of five grand and 98% of the time you win not a dollar you know so

12:53 with trading cards you do have you know 20 30% of the value you know I don't know what the average is it depends on the product but

13:02 uh at worst and something to collect or keep on to and if you chose if you choose to just be a hit chaser and throw everything away well that's your thing but a lot of people don't most people don't

13:13 and so I think That's where the the difference lies, right? Maybe give everybody a little bit of the international perspective.

13:20 The appetite for international for for collecting internationally is just as strong as it is here, if not even more. Um, China, it's it's very very intense. Japan is very very intense. Uh, Singapore is also very very intense. I was just in Singapore. Um, and I got asked to come out there to produce content for Singapore Comic-Con. So, I work in tandem with a lot of these different conventions and if there's a collectible avenue there, then I'm usually involved in that kind of capacity. Whether it's that San Diego Comic- Con, New York City Comic- Con, it's not just limited to just cards.

13:52 It's also working with uh a lot of these major publishers in the anime space as well as um as well as companies, toy companies as well, like such as Jazwares and so on and so forth. So, like I dabble in a lot of different things, but that appetite is strong and it's stronger now than it was like 4 years ago, 3 years ago, whatever. It's it's the strongest I've ever seen it.

14:13 As we wrap up here, man, uh the people that are coming in from an investment standpoint, and it sounds like I want to summarize and and make sure I've I've I've gotten it and the audience has gotten it. I mean, it sounds like

14:26 you're cool with whoever's coming in. If you're coming in as an investor, that's cool. If you're coming in as a collector, that's cool. and probably more cool to you because you're a collector at heart too.

14:35 But if you are coming in from an investment standpoint, particularly with Pokemon,

14:40 is it as simple as, you know, like you said, I couldn't agree more. And that's why when you said open, spend your,000, 10,000 hours, whatever. I couldn't agree more. And that's what the boys and I did, getting back, you know, really taking it serious and getting back into it, you know, ripping packs, looking at stuff, education. But I mean, is it as simple as well, what's printed the least and has the most scarcity, you know, go after that? I mean, but are there other nuances that Shiv Patel can insider tips for people that are investing that to maybe think about?

15:12 I mean, like, yeah, you can if you if you're very liquid, yeah, you can go ahead and buy some of the biggest cards available in any hobby that you want to. And I' I've seen that. I I know all the guys in in Pokemon uh who are dropping millions of dollars. I know all of them.

15:27 Um, and they're faceless. They're faceless individuals. And some of them are crypto whales. Some of them created specific pieces of crypto. Um, they exist. They're there.

15:38 But if I I think my advice is kind of look where no one else is looking. Um, and and apply the logic of whether or not that item has multiple layers of collectibility. So, if it's very difficult for the average individual to collect or if it's difficult for a collector to collect, that's kind of like something to pay attention to and take very seriously. When I came into the space in 2019, um not only was I collecting vintage Pokémon cards at that time that was extremely undervalued for where I was at, I was collecting very, very rare vintage Pokemon toys. And I completed a set um of 10 12 toys uh cost me about $7,700. I sold all of that for $110,000 in um December uh not that long ago.

16:28 So, there are collectors out there that collect things outside of Pokémon. It's it's memorabilia. All the things that you see behind me, these things have all gone up in value and and you know, there's not that many people that will talk about that. There are they do exist and there are collectors out there. There are people on the outside looking in that want the things that I have behind me. Yeah. Just look where no one else is looking. you know, apply that.

16:52 All right, that that's helpful. I love that. That was juicy. If you were paying attention, you know where to go with that. And if you don't, shoot me a DM. I'll help you with the breadcrumbs. But what's a trading card maybe that you think uh maybe it doesn't have the upside Pokemon did in 2019, 2018, whatever, but what's something that people might be sleeping on that you think should get more attention?

17:17 [snorts] I think Yu-Gi-Oh is is something that is slept on. I think one medium that is going to be I I give it here in the next like five years and this is just my perspective because I'm taking it very seriously right now and I'm putting my money where my mouth is on this

17:32 is that anime um anime is a big big cultural movement that's happening here in the United States. It's been happening for quite some time now. You look at Hollywood as as an example and this is and and just follow along with me. Yeah,

17:47 a lot of major movies are failing. Um, and that's why we see a lot of sequels and prequels to the same things that we grew up with. It's very, very risky for a production company to make something. And just recently, as of last year, there was a movie called the Demon Slayer movie. The cost to be able to produce that movie was $3 million. They made 300 million more more than that now at this point. And so where where anime is becoming very very relevant and very culturally significant in this space, I think that's where people should be looking at predominantly around animation cells and sketches. Japanese people and Japanese intellectual properties are very very safeguarded.

18:28 It's very very tough to work with these companies and they're very very strict when it comes to their licensing process. And so if you can get your hands on a animation cell, everything is digital these days. So stuff like that is becoming hard and hard to come by and and as a collector to be able to own a piece of an episode that was very very momentous and influential, that's what people are missing out on. And I think that's where things are going in this direction as far as collectibility goes. And then sketches from the people who created those specific intellectual properties are going to become increasingly more and more and more valuable. We're talking about like you show a kid today a a Gustaf Climpmp painting and right now like that painting, one of the paintings just recently sold for the highest amount ever for a public painting for $237 million. But like kids aren't going to

19:17 know what that is. They're going to know what anime is. And if they've been influenced by that, they're going to want that.

19:21 Tell everybody where they can learn more about your content, any of your initiatives, things like that.

19:27 Yeah. Uh so on Instagram, I'm not Shivam. I don't know how I came up with that name, but I just have it. Uh on YouTube it's @ it'svaulted like you're going to vault something. Um so I have that there. Uh I I would plug in my Tik Tok but I'm barely on Tik Tok anymore. I'm just mostly on Instagram and YouTube and Facebook.

19:46 Oh, I like you more. I like you more. Yeah, more. That's me. Yeah, I know Tik Tok was the hottest thing ever for so long. I've stayed true to IG. I mean, I've got a good decent following on Tik Tok, but not I just Yeah, I don't like getting in that vortex. Ding ding ding. Smart man. I love it, brother. Thank you so much for your time and appreciate you coming on.

20:07 Of course. Thank you for having me. Hey guys, you want to find us, collectibles.show is the current URL. We will be moving to the collectornation.com. Shortly, we'll have that redirect and everything with it. And go follow Shiv, man. He's doing some great stuff in the space. It's fascinating. He's covering the gamut with his content, a lot of great storytelling, and great knowledge on Pokemon and collectibles in general. We appreciate you for listening. Stay tuned for the next episode coming up soon. We'll see you next time on Collector Nation.

20:42 Thanks for tuning in to the show. Don't forget to follow us on your favorite podcast platform and don't miss the full video version on YouTube. You can find us at collectornation.com or follow Ryan on Instagram at Ryan Alfred. Now get out there and collect yours.

Questions about this episode

What is "The Next Collectibles Boom Won’t Look Like the Last One and THIS is Why | Shivam Patel" about?

The discussion revolves around the evolving landscape of collectibles, emphasizing the role of corporations like the Pokémon Company International in shaping the market and the influence of scalpers. Notably, the speaker advises collectors to seek items with inherent complexities or multiple layers of collectibility, as these factors can signal future value growth in a market that might not…

What is mentioned in this Collector Nation episode?

30 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Pokémon, Anime, Collector Nation, The Pokémon Company International, Ben Alfred, Shiv Patel. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "The Next Collectibles Boom Won’t Look Like the Last One and THIS is Why | Shivam Patel"?

The episode runs 21 min; the transcript is about 4,139 words in 48 timestamped sections.

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