Transcript

Talking Dateline: "The Betrayal of Sandra Birchmore" with Lester Holt and Andrea Canning | Dateline

From Dateline NBC · Episode page · Watch on YouTube

· 20 min · 3,688 words · 51 timestamped sections

This is the full, timestamped transcript of "Talking Dateline: "The Betrayal of Sandra Birchmore" with Lester Holt and Andrea Canning | Dateline", an episode of Dateline NBC published September 24, 2025 (20 min, about 3,688 words). It mentions 29 people, works and ideas, including Chief McNamera, Suicide, Law Enforcement, Talking Dine, The Betrayal of Sandra Burchmore.

What is discussed, and when

  1. – 3:00: Law Enforcement, Andrea Canning, Chief McNamera, explorer programs
  2. – 6:00: Suicide, homicide, Law Enforcement, medical examiner
  3. – 9:00: Chief McNamera
  4. – 12:00: Chief McNamera, Law Enforcement, Suicide
  5. – 15:00: Chief McNamera, Boston Globe, Massachusetts, The Betrayal of Sandra Burchmore
  6. – 18:00: Al, Texas, Upstate New York
  7. – 19:40: Dateline NBC, Dateline NBC, Boston Globe, Dine Live event

Notable quotes from "Talking Dateline: "The Betrayal of Sandra Birchmore" with Lester Holt and Andrea Canning | Dateline"

  • Snowstorm had come through. she was found dead in her bedroom in what appeared to be a suicide, but that didn't add up for people who knew her or her loved ones. An incredible…
    about Suicide · at
  • You know or the military. so it's just you know according to Chief McNamera from the Sto Police Department everything went so wrong you know because who she was exposed to in this program.
    about Chief McNamera · at
  • Almost inviting everyone to start figuring out who it is, kind of. And I'm just I was a psychology major, by the way, in college. I am not a psychologist. maybe just sort of…
    about Psychology · at
  • I want to ask you about the medical examiner and Dr. Boden came into this story at the invitation of the aunt. I believe it's a huge moment because for the first time they hear that she was.
    about medical examiner · at
  • Dr. Boden Chief McNamera her internal investigation the family pushing the Boston Globe you know media outlets the podcasters. I think it was just a culmination of all these…
    about Boston Globe · at
  • Okay, Andrea, you have now covered a few cases in Massachusetts. And we got a question from Glam Mode who asked, Which state tops the list for the most stories featured on your show? Do we keep track of that?
    about Massachusetts · at
  • Of them was a story that actually just reaired not too long ago about a teacher in Texas in Al Texas. I went to the prison and I interviewed her killer who confessed which is…
    about Al, Texas · at
  • About the stories we're covering or DLine itself, reach us 24/7 on social media at dateline NBC. There's also a number to call. If you have questions for Talking Dine, leave a…
    about Dateline NBC · at

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

  • Chief McNamera — Person · 7 mentions · first at
  • Andrea Canning — Person · 1 mention · first at
    Hi everybody, I'm Lester Hol and this is Talking Dine. Today we have Andrea Canning on to talk about her latest episode, The Betrayal of Sandra Burchmore. Good to have you here, Andrea.
  • Dr. Michael Baden — Person · 1 mention
  • Lester Holt — Person · 1 mention

Books & papers

  • The Betrayal of Sandra Burchmore — Book · 2 mentions · first at
    Talking Dine. Today we have Andrea Canning on to talk about her latest episode, The Betrayal of Sandra Burchmore. Good to have you here, Andrea.

Companies & orgs

Products & tech

  • Talking Dine — Product · 2 mentions · first at
    Hi everybody, I'm Lester Hol and this is Talking Dine. Today we have Andrea Canning on to talk about her latest episode, The Betrayal of Sandra Burchmore. Good to have you here, Andrea.
  • Dine Live event — Product · 1 mention · first at
    And send us a video on socials for a chance to be featured in a future episode. And before we go, the Dine Live event we mentioned in Nashville is coming up very soon. It's…

Concepts & topics

  • Suicide — Concept · 5 mentions · first at
  • Law Enforcement — Concept · 5 mentions · first at
    And this all started, according to law enforcement when she was a teenager. she her mother who suffered, her mother had health issues. She's passed away. she was raising Sandra by all.
  • explorer programs — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    Exactly. And these Explorer programs are all over the country. you know so this was designed to help kids and also it really motivated Sandra to want to be in law enforcement.
  • military justice — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    You know or the military. so it's just you know according to Chief McNamera from the Sto Police Department everything went so wrong you know because who she was exposed to in this.
  • Psychology — Concept · 1 mention · first at
  • medical examiner — Concept · 1 mention · first at
  • homicide — Concept · 1 mention · first at
    An issue like this. And he took one look at it and he said, this is homicide. This is not a suicide. And that video tape was also very telling. The surveillance tape of the officer, I mean really it was chilling, you know.

Places & events

  • Massachusetts — Place · 1 mention · first at
  • Upstate New York — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Should look at some point, just to I can also say I have done a ton of stories in upstate New York.
  • Al, Texas — Place · 1 mention · first at
  • Nashville — Place · 1 mention · first at
    Chance to be featured in a future episode. And before we go, the Dine Live event we mentioned in Nashville is coming up very soon. It's this Sunday, September 28th. I'll be…
  • Texas — Place · 1 mention

Sponsors

  • Dateline NBC — Sponsor · 2 mentions · first at
    About the stories we're covering or DLine itself, reach us 24/7 on social media at dateline NBC. There's also a number to call. If you have questions for Talking Dine, leave a…
  • Dateline NBC Live Event — Sponsor · 1 mention
  • Dateline NBC social media — Sponsor · 1 mention
  • DLine — Sponsor · 1 mention

Full transcript with timestamps

Hi everybody, I'm Lester Hol and this is Talking Dine. Today we have Andrea Canning on to talk about her latest episode, The Betrayal of Sandra Burchmore. Good to have you here, Andrea.

Thank you. Good to be here, Lester. If you haven't seen the episode, you can catch it on the DLine podcast feed. Go there, give it a listen, and then come right back here. To recap the story before we get into the discussion, it was early 2021. Uh 23-year-old teacher's assistant, Sandra Burchmore, didn't show up to school after a noraster, a major snowstorm had come through. Um she was found dead in her bedroom in what appeared to be a suicide, but that didn't add up for people who knew her or her loved ones. An incredible uh tale, Andrea. It looks like one that took a little bit of emotional toll on you at times.

Oh, absolutely, Lester. I mean, we're dealing with such a young woman here. And this all started, you know, according to law enforcement when she was a teenager. Um, you know, she her mother who suffered, you know, her mother had health issues. She's passed away. Um, she was raising Sandra by all accounts, you know, by herself. She had some help from the grandparents, but she wanted to give Sandra, an only child, you know, a good life, and she wanted to make sure that she had the support. And, you know, so, not only did she do martial arts, but she also enrolled her in the Stoen Police Explorers program.

Um, and you know, she thought that this was going to be a great thing for her daughter.

Yeah. A place where she'd be around responsible adults in theory. Exactly. And these Explorer programs are all over the country. uh you know so so this this was designed to help kids and also it really motivated Sandra to want to be in law enforcement.

Yeah. Um you know or the military. Uh so it's just you know according to Chief McNamera from the Sto Police Department everything went so wrong you know because who she was exposed to in this program.

I also thought it really interesting learning more about Sandre and you talk about how young she is. At one point, the focus is on her tendency to overshare when she drops the bomb about expecting a baby. At the same time, she was rather secretive in other places.

Yeah, it was it was kind of there was a little irony there, right, with her her her privacy slashoversharing. Um I mean, this is this is a girl who I say girl, you know, she's a woman, but she she definitely had, you know, childlike features. She looked very young and and I think she at times sort of maybe acted almost like a girl, right? Because she uh was almost naive maybe. I mean, this is this is a young woman who went to her boss at school and said, you know, I'm having a baby with a married man. I mean, right in that meeting,

almost inviting everyone to start figuring out who it is, kind of. And I'm just I was a psychology major, by the way, in college. I am not a psychologist. Uh maybe just sort of you know playing some guessing games here but like I don't know maybe it was she wanted a baby so badly because you know um maybe maybe she was sort of missing that family element a little bit you know her mom had passed away and she was an only child as I mentioned and so I don't know perhaps you know that that you know having no siblings I don't know maybe maybe this baby was filling some kind of a void um but she was very very excited about it. It was interesting that I mean I think obviously losing anyone to suicide is difficult to accept. I think we we understand that.

But in this case the family was very quick to go no no no this this isn't this isn't her.

She would not do this. Someone had to have done this. Yeah. I mean they there were a number of things happening. You know one was like Sandra the oversharer. You know they were like if he broke up with her she was upset. She would have told somebody. um she was also so excited about the baby um that that also didn't make sense to them. And the other thing that happened too was there was um um a after the law enforcement left and and some family members were cleaning up the apartment, they found this necklace on the floor and they they said that they went to the police and they said, "We found this necklace and it's like it's broken and it looks like, you know, maybe there was a struggle. Like does this mean anything?" And the police, they said, didn't do anything about it.

Didn't seem interested. And then when the FBI got this expert on the case, the expert saw the necklace in the crime scene photos on her body and the and the the flamingo from the the necklace was like around her stomach. And and then to think that the police would not note that in their report, you know, from from all the reports that we've seen, there's no notation of that. Maybe that would be evidence. I mean, it's it's amazing how the family just kept pushing and pushing and you know, why are why is nothing happening? And they kept getting well, the response was it's been ruled a suicide.

I want to ask you about the medical examiner and Dr. Boden came into this story at the invitation of the aunt. I believe it's a huge moment because for the first time they hear that she was killed, not a a victim of suicide.

Yeah. So, Dr. Bodton takes a look as he has in thousands of cases, you know, he is very famous. Um, and he is kind of known as the guy you go to if you have an issue like this. And he he took one look at it and he said, um, you know, this this is homicide. This is not a suicide. And that that video tape was also very telling. The surveillance tape of the officer,

I mean really it was chilling, you know. I mean it was co time so the mask made sense. Anyway, he was up there for 29 minutes. You know, everything was just so crucial. Like all these details and this is a man who left that apartment and then ends up at the hospital to deliver his third child. Yeah, that that picture was quite chilling holding the uh the child. And we should point out that this case is not over. There has not even been a trial yet.

No, Matthew Farwell has pled not guilty. Um and also it has come out that he's apparently not even the father of the baby. So, you know, so much is centered around, you know, the impending birth of this child, that he didn't want this child, and then come to find out that, you know, according to reports, he's not the dad.

All right, when we come back, we have an extra clip from Andrea's interview with the police chief, Donna McNamera. I want to get your sense of the police chief, Donna McNamera. Obviously, she figures huge in this case by, you know, going after her own officers.

What was your What were your thoughts about her? Yeah, I I mean, this weighed very very heavily on Chief McNamera. I could see it on her face. I mean, this this was not something easy for her to talk about at all. Um, and you know, she really just said, you know, I I need to take a look at my department and what's going on here. And she launched that that investigation. she hired outside consultants to come in. That's when she, you know, just got all these text messages um from Sandra and from Matthew Farwell and what she found she just described as absolutely disturbing. And I'll tell you, Lester, you know, if this was one of your family members, my goodness, I some of those text messages that I read and the way that she was talked about, like every time I had I I was exposed to them, I just it just left such a bad just a dark feeling, you know, and I have five daughters and, you know,

they're her age of when she started all of this, you know, in the program. And I mean, if someone ever treated one of my daughters that way, I you know, I I don't know what I would do. It it's just it's really hard to think about.

Yeah. I tell people all the time, you know, we do our jobs and and we're not unaffected by the things we cover. And when you look at stories like this through that lens, it it it um it leaves you shaken on some level.

Everyone who goes through these stories, it's it's just completely crushing and heartbreaking. and we don't know what they're feeling, you know, but if you if you do go there and you imagine what if that was my child, she just went down this rabbit hole and just was couldn't believe what she was reading and what she was seeing. And you know, I think a lot of people were very grateful that she that she did that and she jumped on it so quickly.

Well, Andrea, we have some of Chief Magnamera that that didn't make it into the program that I think we can share and talk about. Here it is. This is a lot to unpack. This is one of your detectives that is in a relationship with a woman who's just died, a married detective.

Yes. It's very concerning to me that he would be in in a relationship with Sander Bert.

And not only that, she's a a former member of your explorer program with the police department.

Yes, she is. And she was a young impressionable young girl that um didn't have the easiest upbringing. and all of those things um made me gravely concerned at that point in time.

So, you're concerned. What's your gut telling you about how this all fits together, if at all?

So, I don't know where it it fits. It's unusual and it's concerning. So, uh, at that point, you know, I, uh, made a phone call to my boss, you know, concerned that she Matthew Fowl would be in a relationship with Sandra Burmore was my biggest concern and that she is deceased. I was just so impressed that she came forward, you know, cuz so many times law enforcement, you know, in situations like this, they they just they don't want to talk, you know, cuz it's a tough thing and we haven't even had the trial yet. and um you know this was her department and you know she's at the top right and so you you could see a chief shying away and saying you know what I it's an ongoing case or I can't talk to the media right now or you know not Chief McNamera she took it head on and she there was I don't think there was one question I asked her that she did not answer

yeah she's a strong lady and you could almost feel the indig indignant nature of of her response there uh to what was happening essentially in our department

and you know she had known Matthew Farwell for a long time. You know they they had worked together and also his twin brother um who Chief McNamera said she discovered that Sandra was with him as well. You know again according to the chief um and then another officer who was also with that explorers program. Um, and so the chief decided that she was going to release her findings to the public. And um, and at this point, nothing had really been happening with Sandra's uh, death investigation because they had ruled it a suicide. And so when Chief McNamera held this press conference, which you know I thought was pretty brave of her to to do that, um it really opened up a lot of eyes and and some of those eyes that were watching that press conference were from the FBI.

Yeah. And that I think we were all surprised because I I think you set up in the story that the FBI was very, you know, you may not hear from us for a while. This may take a while

with with a sense almost like it was being put on a back burner. Clearly, it wasn't.

Yeah. And Lester, we hear that so many times, right, where like a new law enforcement agency comes on board or whatever and they talk to a family and and then the family's like, "Okay, I'm not, you know, I don't then they don't hear anything." I kind of like how the FBI in this case said, "You might not hear from us for a while." Um cuz usually the family just is kind of in the dark, right? They they don't know what's going on. I mean, they were forewarned that there, you know, this could be slow there could be slow movement on this. We we you know we don't know.

Um but they were thrilled that they were on it. Yeah. What got the FBI so suddenly well first who got them involved in the case and then subsequently you know making the arrest.

I mean definitely Michael Boden's report Dr. Boden uh Chief McNamera her internal investigation the family pushing um the the Boston Globe you know media outlets the podcasters. I mean, I think it was just a culmination of all these things where they finally um you know, just got on it. They they have not talked to us at all about this case right now because it's ongoing and so we don't you know have exact confirmation from them. But Chief McNamera thinks that it was a combination of all those things. I think a lot of us felt sickened by how this poor young girl, young woman was was exploited and all this and and we see the sense of betrayal on on certain levels, but I think it's worth noting there's also some sense of heroism here.

There are those you you mentioned the family um that did not let this rest. They kept it out there and we've seen that more and more as as families get involved and people people get these heroes or these champions,

you know, behind them. We did. Yes. Absolutely. And the family was not going to give up, you know, and this is an I mean, they were just they were wonderful people and everything about them was like just with it on the ball fighting for Sandra. I was really impressed. Um, you know, this is just something that they were not going to let go and um it paid off, you know, because they they got an arrest.

After the break, Andrea will take some of your questions via social media. Okay, Andrea, we talked a few days ago about your episode, The Betrayal of Sandra Burchmore, and it is generated, as you might expect, a lot of questions from our viewers on social media. First one comes from at Loves to Golf for Fun, who writes, "Did they ever find out who was the father of Sandra's baby?"

That is such a great question, Lester, and my dad, in fact, uh, just yesterday had the same question. Um, so if they have identified the father, it has not been released. Um, the other thing that's kind of interesting too is, you know, with Matthew Farwell heading to trial eventually, you know, is this something that the defense would try to use, you know, if they find out who the real father is, you know, would they would they bring that into the trial? I don't know. But you you would think a defense attorney might latch on to that.

Um, so this is something that we'll, you know, continue to watch out for in the coming months.

Okay, Andrea, you have now covered a few cases in Massachusetts. And we got a question from Glam Mode who asked, "Which state tops the list for the most stories featured on your show? Do we keep track of that?"

Um, you know, Lester, um, it's not there's no official number on that. I can speak somewhat anecdotally. There have been a lot of stories out of Florida, a lot of stories out of Texas, a lot of stories out of California. Um, but I think that's a really good question and maybe something that we should look at at some point, you know, just to I I can also say I have done a ton of stories in upstate New York.

Here's one from JJ Artist 74 who writes, "What is the one crime that shook you to your core even today?"

Yeah, I mean, sadly, there's a lot that you know that I could list. I think one of them was a story that actually just reaired not too long ago about a teacher in Texas in Al Texas. Um I went to the prison and I interviewed her killer who confessed which is unusual because usually when we go into prisons the you know the the person who's been convicted, the killer is saying that they did not do it and here's why and I loved her. I loved him. In this case, he said, "I did it." And this teacher was, um, she was stabbed dozens of times, um, shot in the face, uh, as well, and hidden under a bunch of branch branches, taken out to a lake. And him describing the killing for me was a lot. My photographer afterwards said, "I need a shower." Like, it was just, it was really tough to hear. And then even a friend who I told about, I told her about it. I it hadn't even aired yet.

and she said, "I was scared when I went to bed last night after you telling me that story. It was it was a lot."

We have a voicemail now question that comes from a viewer, Michaela, a big dine fan. Here it is.

Hi, my name is Michaela. I'm a really big Date Line fan. My question is just when are you guys or if you guys are coming to other states? It really comes out to be missing. So hopefully you guys are winning or other cities. Thank you. Well, Michaela, you're not alone on that. U this is the first time we've done this, so this may be the birth of something special. I hate to say it, but stay tuned.

And Michaela, um since you were unable to join us, um we would like to personally say thank you to you for watching Dine and for being such a big fan. And if it goes well, Lester, um I'm sure there could be another one. Stay, you know, as you said, stay tuned for that.

Finally, M. Laurener 21 asked a question I think a lot of viewers will have about this episode, but is there a part two because this isn't finished.

It is not finished. Uh, as as I mentioned, Matthew Farwell still is heading to trial as of now. You know, there could always be a plea agreement. Um, but as of now, trial date has not been set, but we expect one to be set. And also, you know, we want to follow up with all the people we interviewed. Angelique, Sandra's cousin, uh, you know, people like her, we would absolutely talk like to talk to them again about this case. Um, and you know what, we'd love to hear uh also from the Boston Globe in our our second episode on this. They were instrumental along with Angelique in really bringing this case to the forefront and getting eyes on it and keeping the pressure on. And so, um, I know the family is very grateful to the Boston Globe and that, you know, that the reporter on that story is someone we would love to talk to for a part two. Um, so we'll see where where things go and I would definitely say that you can expect one

and we'll see what happens. A lot to learn about that story still. Andrea, thanks very much. That's going to do it for Talking Dine this week. Remember, if you have any questions about the stories we're covering or DLine itself, reach us 24/7 on social media at dateline NBC. There's also a number to call. If you have questions for Talking Dine, leave a message for us in a voicemail at 2124135252 and send us a video on socials for a chance to be featured in a future episode. And before we go, the Dine Live event we mentioned in Nashville is coming up very soon. It's this Sunday, September 28th. I'll be there with the rest of the DLine crew and you can still get tickets. Head to dateline nbc.com/event.

You can also find a link in the description of this episode. We will see you Fridays on Dline on NBC. Thanks for joining us.

Questions about this episode

What is discussed in "Talking Dateline: "The Betrayal of Sandra Birchmore" with Lester Holt and Andrea Canning | Dateline"?

In order: 0:00 Law Enforcement, Andrea Canning, Chief McNamera, explorer programs; 3:00 Suicide, homicide, Law Enforcement, medical examiner; 6:00 Chief McNamera; 9:00 Chief McNamera, Law Enforcement, Suicide; 12:00 Chief McNamera, Boston Globe, Massachusetts, The Betrayal of Sandra Burchmore; 15:00 Al, Texas, Upstate New York; 18:00 Dateline NBC, Dateline NBC, Boston Globe, Dine Live event.

What is mentioned in this Dateline NBC episode?

29 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Chief McNamera, Suicide, Law Enforcement, Talking Dine, The Betrayal of Sandra Burchmore, Boston Globe. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Talking Dateline: "The Betrayal of Sandra Birchmore" with Lester Holt and Andrea Canning | Dateline"?

The episode runs 20 min; the transcript is about 3,688 words in 51 timestamped sections.

More from Dateline NBC

About this transcript: the episode's spoken words as captioned on YouTube, split into timestamped sections. Reclip.Me locates every person, work and idea in the text, keeps the time it is first named, and quotes the words around it verbatim. Last updated November 17, 2025.