Mark Zuckerberg’s Surprising Hobby: How Martial Arts Boost His Focus and Energy

What this episode is about

Mark Zuckerberg has embraced mixed martial arts and Brazilian jiu-jitsu as a way to enhance his focus and relieve stress, training regularly and even competing in tournaments where he won medals. He describes the intense physical and mental challenge of jiu-jitsu as a transformative experience, helping him clear his mind and prepare for the demands of his responsibilities as a leader.

Key takeaways

• Even billionaires need stress relief; Zuckerberg found clarity in chaos with BJJ—proof that focus fuels productivity.
• From coding to grappling mats, Mark's journey teaches that genuine hobbies can reinvigorate even the busiest minds.
• Zuckerberg’s MMA medals are a reminder: success is not just in business but also in personal challenges. Stay multifaceted!
• Who knew a tech mogul could pivot from tech traps to grappling traps? Life lessons abound in Brazilian jiu-jitsu!
• In a world of relentless emails, Zuckerberg’s martial arts journey sends a message: being present is the ultimate productivity hack.

Who speaks in this episode?

• Mark Zuckerberg (Host) · 27 min speaking
• Evan Carmichael (Host) · 18 min speaking

What is discussed, and when

1. 0:00 – 5:00: Mark Zuckerberg, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, MMA, Joe Rogan
2. 5:00 – 10:00: Mark Zuckerberg, Alex Karp, Dan Schulman
3. 10:00 – 15:00: Mark Zuckerberg, Facebook, Jack Dorsey
4. 15:00 – 20:00: Facebook, Jack Dorsey, Mark Zuckerberg, Mandarin Chinese
5. 20:00 – 25:00: Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg, WhatsApp
6. 25:00 – 30:00: Brian Actton
7. 30:00 – 35:00: WhatsApp, Brian Actton, Facebook
8. 35:00 – 40:00: WhatsApp, Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg, Brian Actton
9. 40:00 – 45:00: WhatsApp, Facebook, Brian Actton

Notable quotes from "Mark Zuckerberg’s Surprising Hobby: How Martial Arts Boost His Focus and Energy"

• Mark Zuckerberg trains in mixed martial arts and Brazilian jiu-jitsu, and he's even competed and won medals in jiu-jitsu tournaments. Zuckerberg began practicing Brazilian jiu-jitsu and MMA.

  about Mark Zuckerberg · at 0:00

• Sparring on the mat forces him to be 100% present. MMA is the perfect thing. After an hour or two of rolling or wrestling with friends, it's like now I'm ready to go solve whatever problem at work for the day. Zuckerberg.

  about MMA · at 0:57

• He trains multiple times a week, often early in the morning before heading to the office. And the routine helps him manage his responsibilities at Meta. He mentioned after a…

  about Meta · at 4:05

• Balance out their stressful jobs. Elon Musk, for example, has trained in jiu-jitsu at a California gym. Dan Schulman, the CEO of PayPal, practices a martial art called Krav Maga to help him pick his battles and stay goal focused.

  about Krav Maga · at 4:50

• Over for dinner. Even during a friendly dinner with another tech leader, Mark did not break his rule. He actually served Jack Dorsey a goat that Mark himself had killed. Jack…

  about Jack Dorsey · at 14:53

• Simple challenge, but it showed discipline and set a tone of focus for the company. Learning Mandarin Chinese in 2010. The next year, Mark decided to learn a completely new…

  about Mandarin Chinese · at 16:53

• The app struggled. But believed in it, improving it every single day. Then WhatsApp exploded. Millions of people started using it, valuing its simplicity and privacy. And in…

  about WhatsApp · at 24:31

• Friend of his. Brian was impressed by Yan's skills and his determination. Just 6 months later, Brian Actton helped Yan land a job as an infrastructure engineer at Yahoo.…

  about Brian Actton · at 29:11

Who and what is mentioned in this episode?

People

• Mark Zuckerberg — Person · Primary subject (referenced figure) · 18 mentions · first at 0:00
  Central figure of the episode segments: his MMA/BJJ training, personal challenges, and his role in acquiring WhatsApp are used to illustrate discipline, stress relief, and perseverance narratives.
• Brian Actton — Person · Referenced collaborator (co-founder/peer) · 6 mentions · first at 29:06
  Presented as Yankum/Jan Koum’s close collaborator from Yahoo days, co-founder of WhatsApp, and later a critic of Facebook’s data practices (as described in the transcript).
• Joe Rogan — Person · Referenced host/interviewer · 2 mentions · first at 0:13
  Mentioned as the podcaster to whom Zuckerberg described the appeal of jiu-jitsu/MMA and the need for an activity that forces full presence.
  Or wrestling with friends, it's like now I'm ready to go solve whatever problem at work for the day. Zuckerberg said, Find a hobby that challenges your body and mind. It can…
• Jack Dorsey — Person · Referenced peer (anecdote subject) · 3 mentions · first at 14:47
  Appears in the story about Zuckerberg’s 2011 challenge, where Dorsey was served goat Zuckerberg had killed, illustrating Zuckerberg’s commitment to personal challenges.
• Dan Schulman — Person · Referenced executive example · 2 mentions · first at 4:53
  Cited as PayPal’s CEO who practices Krav Maga, used to generalize the theme of martial arts as a stress-management tool for leaders.
  Balance out their stressful jobs. Elon Musk, for example, has trained in jiu-jitsu at a California gym. Dan Schulman, the CEO of PayPal, practices a martial art called Krav Maga to help him pick his battles and stay goal focused.
• Conor McGregor — Person · Referenced celebrity (reaction/endorsement) · 1 mention · first at 3:55
  Mentioned as a famous fighter who congratulated Zuckerberg, reinforcing the surprising nature of Zuckerberg’s BJJ competition participation.
  Mark Zuckerberg, a tech nerd, had become a medalinning martial artist. Even famous fighters like Conor McGregor congratulated him, amazed at his success. But more importantly, Mark has made MMA and jiu-jitsu a regular habit.
• Elon Musk — Person · Referenced comparison figure · 1 mention · first at 4:45
  Listed as another tech leader who has trained in jiu-jitsu, supporting the broader point that intense hobbies help executives manage stress.
  It turns out that many top executives also do intense physical activities to balance out their stressful jobs. Elon Musk, for example, has trained in jiu-jitsu at a California gym. Dan.
• Alex Karp — Person · Referenced executive example · 1 mention · first at 5:03
  Mentioned as a leader who practices jiu-jitsu and aikido, reinforcing the episode’s motif of demanding hobbies among tech executives.
  Alex Karp, who leads Palunteer, has practiced both jiu-jitsu and iikido for years. They've all found that challenging sports give them an outlet and keep their minds sharp. As one.

Companies & orgs

• WhatsApp — Company · Business focus · 23 mentions · first at 23:14
  WhatsApp is discussed as a messaging app that was acquired by Facebook for $19 billion, highlighting its growth and principles.
• Facebook — Company · Business focus · 21 mentions · first at 1:30
  Facebook is mentioned as the company that acquired WhatsApp and as the platform where Mark Zuckerberg shares updates.
  People started using it, valuing its simplicity and privacy. And in 2014, the unthinkable happened. Facebook, the same company that once rejected him, bought WhatsApp for $19 billion. It became one of the biggest tech deals in history.
• Meta — Company · Business focus · 1 mention · first at 1:30
  Meta is mentioned as the current name of the company formerly known as Facebook, where Mark Zuckerberg is CEO.

Concepts & topics

• Brazilian jiu-jitsu — Concept · Core topic · 3 mentions · first at 0:02
  Brazilian jiu-jitsu is a central topic as Mark Zuckerberg's hobby and stress-relief activity, detailing his training and competition.
  Mark Zuckerberg trains in mixed martial arts and Brazilian jiu-jitsu, and he's even competed and won medals in jiu-jitsu tournaments. Zuckerberg began practicing Brazilian jiu-jitsu and MMA.
• MMA — Concept · Core topic · 3 mentions · first at 0:05
  MMA is discussed as part of Mark Zuckerberg's fitness routine and its benefits for focus and stress relief.
• Mandarin Chinese — Concept · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 16:57
  Mandarin Chinese is mentioned as one of Mark Zuckerberg's personal challenges where he learned the language.
• Krav Maga — Concept · Referenced work · 1 mention · first at 4:58
  Krav Maga is mentioned as a martial art practiced by Dan Schulman, CEO of PayPal, for stress relief and focus.

Full transcript with timestamps

0:00 Mark Zuckerberg trains in mixed martial arts and Brazilian jiu-jitsu, and he's even competed and won medals in jiu-jitsu tournaments. Zuckerberg began practicing Brazilian jiu-jitsu and MMA mixed martial arts during the CO9 pandemic as a way to stay fit and relieve stress. He told podcaster Joe Rogan that there's something so primal about jiu-jitsu that hooked him immediately. "How did I not know about this until now?" he wondered. After his very first role on the mats, he was instantly addicted. In May 2023, Zuckerberg shocked the martial arts world by entering his first BJJ competition held at a local high school in California and winning gold and silver medals in his weight class. He entered under the name of Mark Elliot.

0:41 Elliot is his middle name. Photos from the event showed him sparring and having his hand raised in victory by the referee. Training jiu-jitsu is now a regular habit for him early mornings, several days a week. He's mentioned that the intense focus required in martial arts helps him clear his mind from work. Sparring on the mat forces him to be 100% present. MMA is the perfect thing. After an hour or two of rolling or wrestling with friends, it's like now I'm ready to go solve whatever problem at work for the day. Zuckerberg said, "Find a hobby that challenges your body and mind. It can recharge you for everything else you do." If you've been here before, drop a hashtag believe in the comments below so I can feature you here in a future video. And if you're new, welcome to Believe Nation, the only channel that helps you believe in yourself daily, one video at a time.

1:24 Believe. Why Zuckerberg needed a new challenge. Mark Zuckerberg isn't just a CEO of Facebook or now Meta. He's also a husband, a father, a leader of thousands of employees. His days are packed with stress. At one point, Mark realized that his morning routine runs weren't helping him unwind because while running, his mind could still race with work thoughts. He told Joe Rogan that he needed an activity where he couldn't think about work at all, even for just an hour. That's what led him to try mixed martial arts training. From the first time he stepped onto the mat, Mark was hooked. Jiu-Jitsu demanded his full focus. If he lost concentration for even a second, he could get pinned or submitted. This intense focus was exactly what he was looking for. It forced him to live in the moment, leaving no room to worry about emails or meetings. As Mark put it, MMA is the perfect thing because if you stop paying

2:19 attention for one second, you're going to end up on the bottom. In other words, martial arts gave him no choice but to be 100% present. Zuckerberg also found the fun in this challenge. He said there's something so primal about grappling that excited him. It awakened a new passion for him. He even started inviting some of his friends to train with him, turning it into a social activity as well. What began as a way to relieve stress quickly grew into a beloved hobby for him. How martial arts transformed Mark's life. Once Mark started training regularly, he noticed big changes. For one, he felt stronger and more energized. The sports intense nature actually helped boost his energy levels for work challenges. So, instead of feeling drained by stress, he'd spar with friends in the morning and come into work feeling alert and ready for anything. In May 2023, after roughly a year or two of training, Mark surprised

3:14 everyone by entering his first Brazilian jiu-jitsu tournament as a complete newcomer. People were shocked that the quiet tech billionaire was out there on the competition mats. But Mark's dedication paid off. He won the gold and silver medals in his weight class. Photos from the event show him executing techniques and having his hand raised in victory. It was clear that his hard work and early morning training sessions had built real skill and confidence. As we talked about, Mark entered that competition under a low-profile name, using Mark Elliot, his middle name, to avoid too much attention early on. But once he started winning matches, word got out fast. The news spread on social media and in the martial arts community.

3:52 Mark Zuckerberg, a tech nerd, had become a medalinning martial artist. Even famous fighters like Conor McGregor congratulated him, amazed at his success. But more importantly, Mark has made MMA and jiu-jitsu a regular habit. He trains multiple times a week, often early in the morning before heading to the office. And the routine helps him manage his responsibilities at Meta. He mentioned after a tough rolling session, he feels clear-headed. It's like now I'm ready to go solve whatever problem at work for the day. By pushing his body and mind on the mats, he releases his stress and clears out any mental fog.

4:23 Mark's new hobby also gave him fresh perspective. He told Rogan that martial arts even guides his worldview. It teaches him about the flow and momentum of life. So that means the lessons he learns while grappling like staying calm under pressure and adjusting to challenges might be helping him become a better leader and problem solver in his company. And guess what? Mark isn't the only tech leader with a hobby like this. It turns out that many top executives also do intense physical activities to balance out their stressful jobs. Elon Musk, for example, has trained in jiu-jitsu at a California gym. Dan Schulman, the CEO of PayPal, practices a martial art called Krav Maga to help him pick his battles and stay goal focused.

5:03 Alex Karp, who leads Palunteer, has practiced both jiu-jitsu and iikido for years. They've all found that challenging sports give them an outlet and keep their minds sharp. As one report noted, martial arts and other sports offer muchneeded stress for tech CEOs facing tough times. Also, if you want to take real action after this video, I made a free worksheet just for you. It covers the top lessons from today, gives you space to write your biggest takeaways, and helps you build a simple action plan. It's 100% free. Just click the link in description to go grab it. I'll see you there.

5:34 Benefits of having a challenging hobby. So, why are Mark Zuckerberg and other successful people making time for hobbies like this? Because challenging hobbies aren't just fun breaks. They can actually make you better in your daily life. Here are some of the key benefits. Number one, stress relief and clear mind. When you do something active and demanding, you give your brain a break from the stress. Mark chose jiu-jitsu because he couldn't think about work while sparring. It cleared his mind. Research also backs this up. Engaging in hobbies you love, puts you in a flow state where you're fully absorbed in that activity, which restores your mind and your energy levels. A good hobby melts away worry and stops that endless mental chatter. You come back to your tasks with a clear, fresh mind. Next, boosted mood and energy. Ever notice how you feel happy and energized after doing something fun or physical? That's not an

6:28 accident. When you're really engaged in an activity like sports, your brain releases endorphins and other feel-good chemicals that actually improve your mood and kill your stress. Hobbies can make you smile more and stress less. And when your mood is better, you have more energy and enthusiasm in all areas of your life. Mark often starts his day by training and it puts him in a positive mindset to then go off and tackle his work. Next, improve focus and performance. It sounds counterintuitive, but taking time away from work can help you do better when you go back to work.

7:00 Fun activities recharge your mental batteries. Studies have found that people who regularly engage in creative or physical hobbies tend to be more productive and better at problem solving when they return to work. Exercise in particular has been shown to improve memory and thinking skills. So Mark experiences firsthand. After an intense roll on the mats, he says he's ready to handle any problems a day throws at him. By recharging himself, he actually gets more done. Next, building discipline and confidence. Picking up a challenging hobby means starting as a beginner and slowly improving with practice. That process builds discipline since you have to train regularly to get better and confidence as you hit new milestones.

7:40 Mark, for example, went from newbie to gold medalist in a year or two. That achievement surely boosted his confidence. Overcoming small challenges in a hobby teaches you that you can learn and improve, which is a great confidence boost that spills over into work or school. You think, if I can handle that tough sparring session or concert or mountain hike, then I can handle this tough project, too. How to find a hobby that recharges you. Okay, so by now you might be thinking, "This sounds great, but how do I find the right hobby for me?" Here are a few simple tips to get started. Number one, follow your curiosity. Try something that genuinely interests you or excites you, even if it also scares you just a little bit. It could be a sport, a form of art, or anything that challenges you.

8:25 Maybe you've always been curious about rock climbing or salsa dance classes, or learning a musical instrument. Give it a shot. Mark had never tried martial arts until recently, and he ended up loving it. Your next favorite thing might be something that you have never done before. Next, make it physical if possible. A hobby that engages your body and mind at the same time can give the best relief. Activities like sports, yoga, hiking, swimming, or martial arts really get you out of your head. Don't worry, you don't have to win medals like Mark. The goal is to move your body and focus on the activity. If physical hobbies aren't your style, you can still find mental challenges like chess, learning a language, painting. Just make sure it fully absorbs your attention.

9:05 Next, schedule me time. We're all busy, but even Mark Zuckerberg manages to carve out time for his hobby. Treat your hobby like an important important with yourself. So, uh you start maybe one or two hours a week dedicated to this chosen activity. Knowing you have that personal time to look forward to can keep you motivated during the week. Remember, this is time invested in your well-being, not wasted. As one leadership article noted, spending time on enjoyable non-work activities is an antidote to burnout and can even boost your creativity and productivity. Next, have fun and don't pressure yourself.

9:40 The point of a hobby is not to create extra stress, but to relieve it. So, choose something you find fun and rewarding, not something that feels like a chore. You don't have to compete or be the best. You just have to enjoy the process. Mark might be super competitive, but you can bet he trains jiu-jitsu mostly because he enjoys it. When you find a hobby you love, you'll naturally get better at it over time. So, let yourself be a beginner. Laugh at your mistakes and celebrate your progress. The joy you get is the most important part. [snorts] Recharge yourself for success. It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking we should work all the time to be successful, but Mark Zuckerberg's experience shows the opposite. Taking time away from work to do something challenging and fun can actually make you more effective. By rolling on the jiu-jitsu mats, he clears his mind strengthens his body and returns to work

10:32 recharged and ready to go. You can do this, too. In fact, some of the greatest thinkers and leaders have had serious hobbies outside of work, and those hobbies help them succeed in the long run. So, find that hobby or activity that lights you up and challenges you. It might just be the thing you need to relieve stress and unlock new energy. When you take care of your mind and body, you're preparing yourself to perform at your best. And congratulations, you're one video closer to who you're meant to be. Believe. Now, let's find why Mark Zuckerberg only ate meat from animals that he actually killed himself for a year. Mark Zuckerberg once said a wild challenge.

11:08 He ate only meat that he personally killed for a whole year. In 2011, at age 27, Zuckerberg decided to learn where his food comes from by doing something extreme. If he wanted to eat meat, he had to kill the animal himself. This meant he basically became a vegetarian, except on occasions when he slaughtered an animal for food. He announces on his private Facebook page after his first attempts. I just killed a pig and a goat, he posted, shocking his friends. He learned from local farmers and a chef how to do it humanely. Why would he do this?

11:37 Zuckerberg said it was about gratitude and awareness. Many people forget that a living being has to die for you to eat meat, he explained. So, he didn't want to take food for granted. By doing everything from killing to cooking, he became more mindful. So far, this has been a good experience, he said. The habit only lasted that year as a personal project, but it taught him a lot. It's one of the unusual annual challenges Mark takes on to push his comfort zone and learn discipline. Other years, he learned Mandarin, built an AI for his home, and so on. As Zuckerberg said, "The only meat I'm eating is from animals I've killed myself.

12:11 Why did Mark do it? So, it might sound shocking that a billionaire CEO would personally butcher animals, but Mark had a clear purpose. He wanted to be thankful and aware of the food that he eats. In his own words, I think many people forget that a living being has to die for you to eat meat. By facing this fact head on, he hoped to not take food for granted and to feel more gratitude for each meal. This challenge forced him to appreciate the meat he did eat because he understood the real cost of it. Mark explained that by doing everything himself from the killing to the cooking, he became more mindful about eating. He couldn't just grab a burger without thinking. He had to earn it in a way. He said it ended up being a good experience that made him eat healthier and learn a lot about farming.

12:55 Since he wasn't going to kill animals every day, he ate mostly vegetables most of that year. Meat became an occasional special meal that required real effort. This change meant he ate healthier foods and learned about sustainable farming and how animals are raised. The challenge taught him gratitude, healthier eating habits, and a deeper understanding of where food comes from. How he carried out the challenge. Mark didn't just jump into this challenge blindly. He asked for guidance to do it as humanely as possible. A local chef, who was also his neighbor, helped Mark get started. The chef named Jesse Cool introduced Mark to nearby farmers who taught him the proper and kindest way to slaughter animals. With their help, Mark learned how to respectfully kill a chicken, a pig, and a goat for food.

13:38 After killing an animal, he would take it to a butcher in Santa Cruz to be prepared properly. Throughout this process, Mark shared a few updates with his friends. When he first posted, "I just killed a pig and a goat," it shocked a lot of people. Some friends were surprised or even upset. Others were curious. The story quickly spread beyond his friends. Soon the world heard about Mark's odd challenge. Food writers and even vegetarians took notice. Not everyone agreed with his approach, but many found it thoughtprovoking. Famous food author Michael Pollen even praised Mark's idea by saying, "Good for him."

14:09 Suggesting that forcing oneself to confront the reality of eating meat is a valuable exercise. For that whole year, Mark sucked at his rule strictly. If he hadn't personally killed an animal, he wouldn't eat meat. Simple as that. This basically turned him into a part-time vegetarian, except on those special occasions. This level of commitment shows how serious he was. It wasn't about a love of killing. It was about discipline and learning. By the end of the year, Mark didn't continue the practice. It was just a one-year project, but he said he gained a lot from it. He likely developed a stronger sense of gratitude and a habit of thinking more deeply about everyday things like a simple meal.

14:47 A dinner Jack Dorsey will never forget. One of the craziest story from this year is when Mark had Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey over for dinner. Even during a friendly dinner with another tech leader, Mark did not break his rule. He actually served Jack Dorsey a goat that Mark himself had killed. Jack Leader shared this wild anecdote in an interview and has since become Silicon Valley legend. According to Dorsy, Mark told him they would be eating goat that night, the very goat Mark had slaughtered as part of his challenge. Part of the conversation went like this. Jack asked, "Were eating the goat you killed?" Mark calmly replied, "Yeah." Jack asked if Mark had eaten goat before, and Mark said he had and that he loved it. They waited for the goat to cook. After about 30 minutes, Mark announced, "I think it's done now." But when he took it out of the oven and served it, the goat was cold. Jack Dorsey ended up only eating

15:37 salad that night since the goat wasn't warm or perhaps not fully cooked. He described the meal by saying, "The goat was cold. That was memorable. I just ate my salad." This bizarre dinner just shows how seriously Mark took his challenge. Even when hosting a guest, he stuck to eating only meat he personally killed. It also gives a glimpse of Mark's life outside the boardroom. A bit weird and unexpected. For Jack Dorsey, it was certainly a dinner he'll never forget and probably the first time he'd been served goat at a billionaire's house. Stories like this also got people talking and kept the internet fascinated by Mark's personal experiment.

16:13 Mark's other personal challenges. Mark Zuckerberg's eat only what you kill project was just one of many personal challenges he has taken on. In fact, since 2009, Mark has made it a tradition to choose a big challenge every year to push himself and learn new things. Here are some of the other unusual or inspiring challenges Mark has tackled over the years. Wearing a tie every day in 2009. Early on, Mark was known for his hoodie and t-shirt, but in 2009, he forced himself to wear a business tie every single day. This was during a tough recession and Facebook was not yet profitable. So the tie was a symbol to remind him to be serious about making Facebook successful. Mark said, "My tie was the symbol of how serious and important a year this was. It was a simple challenge, but it showed discipline and set a tone of focus for the company." Learning Mandarin Chinese in 2010. The next year, Mark decided to

17:01 learn a completely new language, Mandarin Chinese. This was a personal challenge and also a nod to his future. His girlfriend, now his wife, Priscilla Chan, had family in China. Mark wanted to be able to speak with Priscilla's grandmother in Mandarin and better connect with her family. He famously said, "Chinese is hard and I like a challenge." By dedicating time to study, he eventually surprised an audience in Beijing by holding a Q&A session entirely in Mandarin, showing how far he'd come. Coding again daily 2012. As Facebook CEO, Mark's job has long shifted away from programming. But in 2012, he challenged himself to code every single day. He missed the elegance of writing code. So this challenge was about reconnecting with his roots as a programmer. It ensured that he stayed in touch with the more technical side of his company and he kept learning meeting a new person every day in 2013. So in

17:53 2013, Mark realized he spent most of his time around Facebook employees and other tech people. So he vowed to meet a new person outside of Facebook every day. He did things in the community and met people from different walks of life. And this challenge pushed him out of his social comfort zone and helped broaden his perspective by hearing different people's stories and views. Writing a thank you note daily 2014. To practice gratitude, Mark's 2014 challenge was to write a handwritten thank you note each day to someone. It could be to anyone, a friend, a co-orker, or someone who helped him that day. He admitted that he's always looking to improve and often focus on what's wrong. So this challenge made him slow down and appreciate the good things. I think it's important to have gratitude for that, he said about recognizing progress and kindness. By the end of the year, he had sent 365 thank you messages strengthening his

18:44 relationships and his sense of thankfulness. Read two books every month in 2015. Mark aimed to read a new book every two weeks in 2015. So about 25 books in the year. He even created a Facebook page called a year of books where he discussed his picks with others. The goal was to learn about different cultures, beliefs, and technologies through reading. This challenge expanded his knowledge beyond the tech world that he was used to. It also showed how a busy CEO still made time for books and learning. Build an AI assistant in 2016. So in 2016, Mark combined his love of coding and technology for a very ambitious goal.

19:19 This is 2016. He set up to build an AI assistant for his home from scratch. He likened it to Jarvis from Iron Man. The AI could control his lights, the temperature, the music, and more with voice commands. Mark documented progress on Facebook and even got actor Morgan Freeman to lend his voice to the AI's personality as a fun twist. That same year, he also challenged himself to run 365 miles, one mile for each day, to stay fit. He finished that running goal by the middle of the year. Travel to all 50 states in 2017. So Mark's 2017 challenge was to visit every US state he hadn't been to yet. He ended up taking road trips through many states, often meeting ordinary people and community leaders. The goal here was to see more of the country and understand how people outside of Silicon Valley live and think. This was partially in response to criticism that tech leaders were all out of touch. Mark said, "My work is about

20:14 connecting the world. I wanted to personally hear more of those voices this year." By the end, he met people in all 50 states, gaining insights in the regional culture and issues. These are just some highlights of Mark Zuckerberg's annual challenges. Every year from 2009 to 2019, he picked a new personal mission to broaden his horizon or build discipline. The challenges range from fun or quirky, like eating only what he killed, to professionally relevant, like addressing Facebook's issues in 2018. Each project was a chance for Mark to grow outside of his everyday work.

20:46 Why these challenges matter. Mark's yearly challenges might seem unusual, but they carry a powerful message about personal growth. Even as the busy CEO of Facebook, Mark made time each year to push himself in a new direction. Why would someone who is already extremely successful bother to do all of this? Because Mark understands that success isn't just about business. It's also about continually improving yourself and stepping out of your comfort zone. Each challenge taught him something valuable. The meat killing challenge taught gratitude and respect for the resources that we consume. Learning Mandarin opened his mind to a new culture and improved his communication skills.

21:22 Writing thank you notes nurtured a habit of daily gratitude and recognizing others. Running and coding challenges built discipline and kept him connected to his passions. Meeting new people and traveling gave him empathy and a broader perspective on life outside of his Silicon Valley bubble. Mark once explained that he does these challenges to learn about the world beyond his work. It's easy for all of us to get stuck in our routines. Mark didn't want to live in a bubble, so he deliberately chose projects that forced him to learn new skills, habits, and perspectives. By doing so, he kept himself humble and curious. He was a student of life, not just the boss of his company. My takeaway is challenging yourself is a good thing. You don't have to copy Mark's exact challenges, but you can pick something meaningful to you. So maybe it's learning a new language like Mark did. Or maybe it's something

22:10 smaller like reading one book a month or doing a daily act of kindness. The point is to set a goal that stretches you. When you stick to a personal challenge, you build discipline and confidence. You start to believe that you can do tough things and that belief spills over into other parts of your life. Mark's story shows that growth happens when you're slightly uncomfortable. He didn't need to do any of this. He chose discomfort on purpose. By pushing his boundaries, he discovered new parts of himself. If a billionaire CEO can find the time to grow and improve, so can each of us.

22:40 It's not about the scale of the challenge, but the mindset of always learning. Mark treated each year like an opportunity to become a better, more educated, and more grateful person. We can all learn from that attitude. So, the next time you hear a crazy story like Mark Zuckerberg only ate what he killed, remember the deeper lesson behind it. It's about being mindful and not taking things for granted and about constantly seeking self-improvement. You don't need a New Year's resolution to start. You can decide to challenge yourself any day. And who knows, you might come out of it with a great story and a better version of you. Now, let's learn how Facebook turned WhatsApp founder Yonkum away for a job at Facebook. And then Mark Zuckerberg ended up acquiring WhatsApp for $19 billion.

23:23 Yankum, the founder of WhatsApp, grew up on food stamps, clean floors to get by, and was rejected by Facebook. Then he built WhatsApp and sold it for $19 billion. Yankum was born in Ukraine, where his family lived without running water or electricity. As a child, he stood in government ration lines just to get food. At 16, he and his mother immigrated to the United States, hoping for a better future. They arrived with almost nothing, surviving on food stamps while his mother worked as a babysitter. Kum took a job cleaning floors at a grocery store to help make ends meet.

23:56 Life was hard, but he refused to accept that struggle with define him. He found old programming books at a used bookstore and taught himself to code. Day after day, he practiced, determined to break free from poverty. His skills landed him a job at Yahoo, but after 9 years, he wanted more. In 2009, he applied for a job at Facebook and got rejected. The rejection stung, but instead of giving up, he turned it into motivation. Kum had an idea. a simple ad-free messaging app that allowed people to connect privately. He started building WhatsApp, working from a small office with barely any money. At first, no one cared. Investors turned him down.

24:31 The app struggled. But believed in it, improving it every single day. Then WhatsApp exploded. Millions of people started using it, valuing its simplicity and privacy. And in 2014, the unthinkable happened. Facebook, the same company that once rejected him, bought WhatsApp for $19 billion. It became one of the biggest tech deals in history. Yonkun proved that where you start doesn't define where you can go. Rejection, poverty, and struggle didn't break him. They built him. So when life gets hard, will you quit or keep pushing? Success belongs to those who refuse to stop. Keep going. Your moment is coming.

25:10 Number one, humble beginnings in Soviet Ukraine. Yank was born in 1976 and raised in a small village just outside Kev, Ukraine. His childhood home lacked basic amenities. They didn't even have running water. In winter, temperatures would drop to -20° C or -4° FHE. Yet, his schools had no indoor bathrooms. Little kids had to trudge to the snow to use an outhouse. Imagine the Ukrainian winter. Living there was experiencing George Orwell's 1984, Yan later said, describing how closed off and harsh society was under Soviet rule. Growing up in Jewish Soviet era Ukraine, Yan also faced anti-semitism and government oppression. Phones were often tapped by the authorities and privacy was non-existent. Those early hardships shaped Yan's character. He learned to be tough and self-reliant. And instead of breaking him, that adversity made him resilient and gave him a desire for freedom.

26:02 Number two, immigration to America starting from zero. When Jan was 16, as the Soviet Union was collapsing, he and his mother made a drastic decision. They immigrated to the United States in 1992, seeking a better life. They arrived in Mountain View, California with almost nothing. Yan's father had intended to join them, but he never made it out of Ukraine, leaving Yan and his mom on their own in a foreign land. They rented a tiny apartment through government assistance and survived on welfare and food stamps. Yan's mother took up babysitting while battling health issues. She was tragically diagnosed with cancer not long after they arrived.

26:38 And to help make ends meet, teenage Yan got a job sweeping floors and cleaning at a local grocery store. He would go to school during the day and mop supermarket floors in the evenings, earning whatever little he could to support his family. It was a no frrills, hard knocks life. They had no car, so Yan would wake up at 6:00 a.m. to catch the bus to school. And he struggled to learn English in a new high school while living in poverty. Life in America was anything but easy at first. We were really poor. I'd never seen anything like California. And here we were living on food stamps, Jan said in interviews.

27:09 He actually used to collect their food stand just a few blocks from where his future company's headquarters would be. But through it all, Yan refused to let those circumstances define his future. He had a spark, a belief he could change his trajectory through sheer determination. Number three, self-taught coding. Yan finds his passion. So through all these struggles, Jan discovered a passion that would change the course of his life, computer programming. He couldn't afford a computer on his own until much later, but he was fascinated by technology. In high school, Yan came up with a clever hack to educate himself. He would save up to buy secondhand computer manuals and programming books from a local used bookstore, study them obsessively, and then return them when he was finished.

27:57 This way, he gained knowledge practically for free. He taught himself computer networking by pouring over manuals he'd purchased from a used bookshop, one profile noted. Yan also spent time in internet chat rooms and hacker forums soaking up any knowledge he could find. He even joined an elite hacker group called WO woo woo where he interacted with other tech enthusiasts and future tech luminaries. All of this self-driven learning built a solid foundation of skills. It's amazing to think that a kid who barely graduated high school and was considered a troublemaker ended up a technical genius. But Yan earned it through his countless hours of practice.

28:33 By age 18, Yan was proficient enough to pick up small little tech jobs. He enrolled at San Jose State University while still trying to improve his coding skills. He also landed a part-time job as a security tester at the accounting firm Ernston Young. This became a foot in the door for him to the tech industry and it would soon lead to a really important meeting. Number four, a chance meeting and a foot in the door. So in 1997 while Yan was at Ernen Young doing his security object project, fate intervened. He was assigned to inspect Yahoo's security systems and there he met Brian Actton, a Yahoo employee who would become a close friend of his. Brian was impressed by Yan's skills and his determination. Just 6 months later, Brian Actton helped Yan land a job as an infrastructure engineer at Yahoo. Suddenly, this 21-year-old immigrant who had taught himself to code was working at a major Silicon Valley

29:28 company. Jan ended up spending nine years at Yahoo, grinding away and honing his expertise. He rose to the role of engineering manager, solving tough technical problems on Yahoo servers. But despite the steady job, he wasn't entirely happy with the traditional corporate environment. So Yan and Brian often bonded over their frustrations with the bureaucracy and the focus on advertising driven revenue that they saw at Yahoo. Little did they know these experiences were planting the seeds for them of a very different philosophy they'd later apply to their own company.

30:01 By 2007, Yan had saved up some money and felt restless. Both he and Brian decided it was time to leave Yahoo and take a break. They quit their jobs together on Halloween 2007, as the story goes, and went backpacking around South America, enjoying a hard-earned rest and brainstormering what to do next. This was a bold move, walking away from a stable income. But Jan had always been willing to take risks and shoot for something bigger. Number five, rejection that lit a fire. After reuniting from their travels in late 2008, Yan Kum was itching to start a new project. But first, he tried to test the waters by applying for a job at a rising company called Facebook. Now, here's the infamous twist. Facebook rejected him. In 2009, both Yan and Brian applied to Facebook, and neither got hired. Jan was disappointed. It hurt to be turned away, but he didn't wallow in lit for long. In a nice poetic turn,

30:54 that rejection gave him extra motivation to work on his own idea instead. And fun fact, Brian Actton tweeted humorously about getting rejected, saying he was looking forward to life's next adventure. For Yan, this failure turned out to be a big blessing in disguise. If Facebook had hired Yan in 2009, we might never have gotten WhatsApp. Instead, Yan took that no as a challenge to prove what he could do. It was time to bet on himself. Also, around this time, Yan had been brainstorming ideas for new apps. He noticed how quickly the world was moving to smartphones. And in January 2009, he bought his first iPhone and realized a new app store was going to be a huge opportunity. So he had an idea for an app that would let people share status updates like at work or battery low with their contacts. It wasn't a messaging app yet, just a way to let others know if you are available to talk or not. And Yan thought it could make

31:48 communication a little bit easier for people. So on February 24th, 2009, which happened to be his 33rd birthday, Yonkum took the plunge. He incorporated his new company as WhatsApp Incorporated, which was a pawn on WhatsApp. He had no idea just how far this little experiment would go for him. Number six, WhatsApp 1.0. A rocky start. So Yan immediately started building his app, working from a tiny office space in Santa Clara that he shared rent-ree with a friend. The first version of WhatsApp launched in May 2009 and it flopped.

32:23 Hardly anyone downloaded it. It would crash frequently. Users didn't see much point in an app that just set statuses. So Jan was demoralized. After all, those months of effort, WhatsApp 1.0 looked like a failure. At one point, Yan thought about completely giving up and going back and finding a regular job. But his friend Brian Actton convinced him to hang in there just a little bit longer. And in June 2009, a twist of fate gave WhatsApp a second chance. Apple released push notifications for the iPhone, meaning an app could alert users even when it wasn't open. Yan realized this can make WhatsApp instantly more useful. If a friend changed their status or sent a message, you'd get a ping on your phone.

33:03 Suddenly, his status app could evolve into a realtime mobile messaging tool. So Yan went back to the drawing board and rewrote WhatsApp to be a messaging app focused on speed and simplicity. Crucially, WhatsApp would use a person's phone number as their login and use the phone's address book to automatically find contacts. No usernames, no passwords to remember. Yan himself hated having to remember login information for apps. And by September 2009, WhatsApp relaunched as an instant messaging app that let users send messages to any other contacts who also had the app. And this time, people started to notice.

33:40 Users loved that WhatsApp was easy. It just worked. No need to build new friends list. It was like texting but free. And little by little, WhatsApp gained a loyal base, especially among international students and expacts wanting to text with family overseas without huge SMS fees. Still, growth was a little bit slow at the first and money was tight. So, Yan was essentially living off his savings from his Yahoo days. He wasn't paying himself a salary and the app itself wasn't generating meaningful revenue yet. Number seven, persistence pays off.

34:12 slow, steady growth. So, early 2010 rolled around and WhatsApp was starting to pick up steam. Seeing the potential, Brian Actton officially came on board as co-founder that year. He even rounded up $250,000 in seed funding from some former Yahoo colleagues to keep WhatsApp afloat. Now, this gave Yan a bit of breathing room to hire a few more engineers and pay for servers and SMS verification texts, which were costing a fortune as the user base grew. Jan and Brian decided early that they would not rely on advertising to make money.

34:44 Having seen the pitfalls of ad-driven businesses at Yahoo, they wanted to do things differently. So instead, they experimented with a simple annual subscription model. At one point charging 99 cents per year after a user's first free year, they found that making the app free initially helped it go viral. Download spiked to 10,000 a day whenever it was free, and then switching a page slowed growth to a more manageable pace. This approach kept the user base expanding without swamping their servers beyond capacity. Through 2010 and 2011, Yan improved the app. He added the ability to send photos and videos. He made sure messages were delivered quickly and reliably. The team kept the app lean. No bloated features, just messaging. They even kept track of their uptime, 99.9% plus, and would work around the clock to fix any problems.

35:31 The mantra was to focus on quality and user experience above all else. Word of mouth started working its magic. WhatsApp began exploding in popularity, especially in Europe, India, Latin America, places where texting, SMS could be expensive or unreliable. People loved that WhatsApp let them chat with friends and family overseas essentially for free using just an internet connection. And by 2012, WhatsApp climbed to become one of the top apps in the App Store and Google Play. With tens of millions of users, all virtually with no marketing or PR, just a great product spreading organically. Yonkum's effort was starting to pay off. The same ideas that many investors had shrugged off was now growing into a communication powerhouse.

36:14 And it was doing so on Yan's terms. No ads, no gimmicks, no nonsense. In fact, Yan famously kept a note taped to his desk with the credo, "No ads, no games, no gimmicks." He was adamant that WhatsApp would not become cluttered or spammy. Advertising isn't just a disruption. It's an insult to your intelligence. Yan would say he had grown up in a world where propaganda billboards were everywhere and personal privacy was violated. And he was determined that WhatsApp would be the opposite. Clean, private, and user focused. And that strict focus earned respect. In 2011, the legendary venture capital firm Sequoia Capital invested $8 million into WhatsApp, valuating it at $80 million. Sequoa's Jim Goats uh became an adviser and later said he was impressed by Yan and Brian's commitment to their principles. They even made Seoia agree never to push ads into the app as a condition of investing. Now,

37:09 with this funding and WhatsApp's viral growth, by early 2014, the app had swollen to 450 million active users worldwide, which was a huge achievement for a team of only about 50 people. Number eight, the 19 billion dollar WhatsApp deal is full circle moment. WhatsApp incredible success ultimately attracted the attention of one Mark Zuckerberg. Yes, the CEO of Facebook who had years before seen little reason to hire Yan. Zuckerberg was impressed by WhatsApp growth and by Jan's product philosophy. He first reached out to Yan Kum in 2012 and they met casually a few times taking walks and talking about technology and the future of where the world was going. Mark respected what Yan had built and Yan respected Mark's vision of connecting the world. Though Jan was wary of Facebook's ad model, by 2014, Facebook could not ignore WhatsApp's dominance in messaging. So instead of competing with it, Zuckerberg

38:03 decided he wanted to acquire WhatsApp entirely. In early February 2014, Mark invited Yan to his home for dinner. Over a friendly meal, Zuckerberg put an offer on the table. Facebook would buy WhatsApp for $19 billion. Jan was stunned by the number of zeros on that check. At 38 years old, he had gone from penniles immigrant to running a company that Facebook was ready to pay an astronomical amount for. Jan took a couple of days to think it through. He had always been fiercely independent and part of him hesitated at the idea of selling, but $19 billion and the promise that WhatsApp could continue to operate autonomously, plus a seat for Yan on Facebook's board was too big of an opportunity to pass. So on February 19, 2014, Yonkum agreed to the deal. The story comes full circle in a way that uh even Hollywood couldn't script better.

38:55 The night of the signing, Yonkum chose a very meaningful location to finalize the paperwork. He drove to a building in Mountain View that held the social services office where he used to wait in line for food stamps years before. There, leaning against the door of that building, he signed the contract that made him a multi-billionaire. In Yan's own words, he wanted to remind himself of where he came from, to never forget his journey. Pretty incredible, right? The kid who once swept floors and relied on welfare was now literally signing a $19 billion deal on the door of the welfare office he used to depend on.

39:30 When news hit headlines it shocked the world. WhatsApp sale was one of the largest tech acquisitions in history. And overnight, Yongum's stake in the company made him worth nearly $7 billion. He celebrated that night with his small team by popping champagne a long way from the life that he'd known before. And fittingly, Brian Actton, the same friend who encouraged him to keep going through the tough times, shared in a huge victory. Brian's share was worth a few billion as well. Facebook welcomed Yan as the newest member of its board of directors. And he assured WhatsApp's millions of loyal users that nothing would change, saying absolutely no ads will interrupt your communication under Facebook.

40:11 Number nine, staying true to his principles. So even after becoming fabulously wealthy, Yonkum remained the same focused privacy obsessed engineer at heart. He continued to run WhatsApp independently from Facebook's main campus, sticking to the app's mission of fast, secure messaging. And in the years that followed, WhatsApp grew beyond 1 billion users and introduced endto-end encryption to secure messages, a move very much in line with Yan's values of user privacy. Yan's story also has one more dramatic chapter. In 2018, after WhatsApp has been a part of Facebook for a few years, reports emerged of tensions between Yan and Facebook's leadership, Facebook's business was all about ads and data, which clashed with WhatsApp's no ad, minimal data philosophy. So, Yan reportedly fought to keep user data private and encryption strong, resisting pressure to weaken those stances with Facebook. Finally sticking to his

41:03 principles, Yonkum quit Facebook in 2018, walking away from the company and leaving behind an additional fortune in unvested stock, which is worth about $850 million that he could have if he had stayed longer. He chose his integrity over even more money. And his co-founder, Brian Actton, had already left months earlier, famously joining the hashdee Facebook movement to protest the misuse of user data. This epilogue shows just how deeply Yan believed in his vision. From day one WhatsApp was about helping people communicate without exploitation. Even though selling WhatsApp made him rich beyond imagination when the core values he built the product on were in jeopardy, Yan didn't hesitate to walk away. How many billionaires you think would do that?

41:49 Number 10, lessons from Yonkum's journey. Yanum's rise from poverty to billionaire is more than just a tech story. It's an example of perseverance, of conviction, and staying true to yourself. Here are some of my favorite takeaways from his story. Let's start with this. Where you start doesn't matter. Jan came from literally nothing. A tiny village with no running water, an immigrant on welfare. He had every reason to think people like me don't succeed. But he proved that your beginnings do not define your destiny.

42:14 It's not about where you start, it's about where you decide to go. Next, self-belief and hustle. With no money for fancy classes, Yan taught himself to code using old books. He hustled. If you're hungry for knowledge, you'll find a way. Even if it means reading books and returning them or learning online for free, Jan's skills weren't handed to him. He earned them through his effort and his curiosity. Next, turn rejection into motivation. Facebook's rejection could have crushed him. Instead, he used it to say, "Hey, I'll show them what I can do." And 5 years later, that rejection was utterly reversed. Facebook was writing him a $19 billion check. The lesson is don't let that no stop you.

42:53 Let it light a fire under you. Next, principles over profit. Yonkum never compromised on his principles. He hated advertising and he championed user privacy from day one. And those values guided every decision while he was running WhatsApp. And when push came to shove, he'd rather leave money on the table than betray what he stood for. In a world where it's easy to sell out, Jan's integrity is a great reminder. Know what you stand for and stand for it unwaveringly. Next, persistence through struggle. From cleaning floors to countless app crashes and investor rejections, Yan faced setback after setback. But nothing made him quit. He once said that growing up in Ukraine prepared you for a lot physically and mentally. It made him tough. Whatever life threw at him, he kept going. The difference between those who succeed and those who don't often comes down to who is willing to keep pushing when things

43:43 get hard. Your turn to WhatsApp your life. Yonkum's story is the stuff of a legend. I can't wait for the movie. An immigrant kid on food stamps built an app that connects the world and becomes a billionaire. But remember, it wasn't luck or overnight success. It was years of invisible hard work, a refusal to give up, and a belief in his vision. He once literally couldn't afford to call his relatives back in Ukraine. And he ended up enabling millions of people to call and text their loved ones for free. The justice is something we can all find some inspiration in. So when you're facing your own challenges, if it's poverty, it's rejection, failure, think of Yonkum. Think of that young man mopping floors and reading used programming books late into the night, dreaming of a better life. Think of how he persisted and how he turned all of those setbacks he had into a stepping stone forward. He proved that his

44:31 rejection, the poverty, the struggle, it didn't break him, it made him stronger. So the next time life knocks you down or someone doubts your abilities, ask yourself, will you quit or will you keep going? To watch the incredible story of Snapchat founder Evan Spiegel, check the video right there next to me. I think you'll love it. Continue to believe and I'll see you there. Evan Spiegel, the co-founder of Snapchat, was laughed at, rejected by investors, and dropped out of college. Now he runs a 100 billion dollar company. In 2011, Evan Spiegel was a college student with a wild idea.

Questions about this episode

Who speaks in "Mark Zuckerberg’s Surprising Hobby: How Martial Arts Boost His Focus and Energy"?

Mark Zuckerberg (Host), Evan Carmichael (Host).

What is "Mark Zuckerberg’s Surprising Hobby: How Martial Arts Boost His Focus and Energy" about?

Mark Zuckerberg has embraced mixed martial arts and Brazilian jiu-jitsu as a way to enhance his focus and relieve stress, training regularly and even competing in tournaments where he won medals. He describes the intense physical and mental challenge of jiu-jitsu as a transformative experience, helping him clear his mind and prepare for the demands of his responsibilities as a leader.

What is mentioned in this Evan Carmichael episode?

15 people, works and ideas are mentioned, including Mark Zuckerberg, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, WhatsApp, MMA, Facebook, Brian Actton. Each one on this page links to its own page with every episode that mentions it.

How long is "Mark Zuckerberg’s Surprising Hobby: How Martial Arts Boost His Focus and Energy"?

The episode runs 45 min; the transcript is about 8,420 words in 65 timestamped sections.

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